If Karen Lewis is smiling, Chicago taxpayers should be getting ready to take one in the shorts.

Don Giacomo

The CTU's original offer included a 30% increase for 1st year teachers. Looks to me like money was certainly a part of the negotiations...

The other main part not yet agreed to is benefits. Benefits also cost the taxpayer's money.

Also, this it is the Democrats who are fighting with the CTU and has nothing to do with Romney.

Fire All The Teachers & Administrators NOW..... Start over with Non-Union people..... The money you will save on Pay & Benefits will allow for More Teachers & Administrators..... All the Union says is give me MORE, yet thay sure as hell have not done a better job..... FIRE THEM ALL NOW.....

Yarbrough30,

There is nobody being asked to work 1 1/2 hours more. The elementary school day is increasing from 5.75 hours to 6.25 hours. A CPS high school teacher's day was increased by 14 minutes to 7 hours.

The teacher contract requires 7 hours of work per day (which includes non teaching time for preparation and grading). Doesn't seem too strenuous to me.

The agreement between the CTU and the mayor's office already included increasing the number of teachers in order to accommodate the increased requirements. This agreement was settled in the summer, before the strike, and is not part of the current negotiations.

Buy stock in "red t-shirts".

armurray... A teacher contract requires 7 hours of work per day? Wow! Does that include going to and coming from meetings too? For 70K a year? GREED isn't even an appropriate word.

Emmanuel is caving because obalamer told him to. No teacher evaluation, no way to get rid of poor teachers, and the union is in control of hiring and firing.

44% graduation rate for inner city kids, 84% of 4th graders cannot read at a 4th grade level, the system is in debt up to their eyeballs, and Emmanuel caves?

The cycle will just continue. And you property owners -- you ain't seen nothing yet -- just wait till next years tax bill. Pay your fair share so these teachers and administrators can retire on your dime. You vote, you deserve what you get.

I wanna strike too! Ooopps, I'm unemployed!

Yarbrough30

The average CTA bus driver makes 62k. It is an expensive city to live in. BTW- they are asking to change the way they are evaluated. In addition, Chicago teachers get no Social Security- none.

The reason Chicago teachers get no Social Security is because they belong to the CTPF (Chicago Teachers Pension Fund). According to the CTPF's calculator, if a teacher retires at age 60 after 35 years teaching at an average salary of $55,000, they will get $3,437.50 per month. That is much more than I will get from Social Security if I wait until age 70 to start collecting. Your claim that teachers not receiving SS is a bad thing is disingenuous at best.

My evaluations at work are based on multiple factors: Quantity of work, quality of work, knowledge of job, initiative, aptitude and ability to learn, dependabililty, cooperation, attention to duty etc. I've never been a teacher but I would think they would be evaluated on lesson plans, professional attitude (love teaching) etc, etc in ADDITION to actual results. And I have to say that there isnt enough money in the world that would get me to teach in public schools. I think teachers (the majority) do an amazing job considering their duties and responsibilities and parental expectations. Plus if America really prioritized education ALL teachers would make good salaries (at least as much as our sports stars and movie stars and t.v. reality stars) The children are our future and it takes a village...................

I think teachers (the majority) do an amazing job considering their duties and responsibilities and parental expectations. Plus if America really prioritized education ALL teachers would make good salaries (at least as much as our sports stars and movie stars and t.v. reality stars) The children are our future and it takes a village...................

One of the few sensible comments so far!

! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! F I R E T H E M ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! !

There are plenty of teachers without jobs to replace them, that would be happy to be working.

if America really prioritized education ALL teachers would make good salaries (at least as much as our sports stars and movie stars and t.v. reality stars)

@Peace,

Did you "wake and bake" this morning? Get yourself some help, that's just crazy talk!! Now, don't forget your red t-shirt and big white sign (the one that say's "strike"), hurray you'll be late!!

We need a Reagan and all we have is Emanuel. Government employee unions should be broken. Kick these greedy creeps out and get people who want the job and can do it.

yarbough30 to add to Bill's comments -- teachers do not pay into SS either...

Sammy, you're a moron. All teachers, really, you think there are no teachers who are up to the task and bad, just there for themselves? The strike was because of merit increases and bonuses, and evaluations, the teacher's didn't want them, they won't get them.

Amen to that Reagan would give them an air traffic controller beat down!

Chicago teachers get no Social Security- none.

They also dont pay into it They also only pay 9% into their pensions, the taxpayers pick up 91% of the bill for teachers to retire in their 50s, oh those poor teachers.

And bus drivers ONLY make $62k?????? Is that suppose to be sarcasm? They drive a bus a couple hours a day and ONLY make $62k? Im speechless anyone could be greedy enough to argue they should be paid more for having ZERO life skills.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++HIRE NUNS+++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Why are Chicago Public Schools considered some of the worst schools in the country, yet the Catholic schools of Chicago are considered some of the best?

Peace-3229398

My evaluations at work are based on multiple factors ..... Plus if America really prioritized education ALL teachers would make good salaries (at least as much as our sports stars and movie stars and t.v. reality stars) The children are our future and it takes a village...................

Apparently your education didn't include any lessons about the law of supply and demand. How many people have the credentials to teach? How does that compare to the number of people who can throw a 90 mph fastball? And how much would you pay to sit in a theater for two hours and watch someone teach 20 fifth graders?

These teachers should be all fired. These people get good pay,more then the rest of us do and still they are complaining that they want more or not enough. How selfish can they be.? The teachers are not doing this for the kids they liars, otherwise they would be right in the classroom teaching the kids. The poor kids are being held hostage by pure greed $$$$$$$ by these union thugs who are robbing the states blind and can careless about the consequences of it financially with the local and state, tax payers suffer and most of all the children .

The evaluation they are proposing is dumb. You can't tell someone you must do something then tie there hands on how it gets done and then blame them when it didn't work. School boards come up with the rules and eliminate anything they don't like which stops the very thing that makes AMERICA the best outside the box thinking. That kind of evaluation is what BUSH set up for schools all over this nation and is a big part of what is wrong with schools today. Teacher Unions are not at fault. I have yet to see any teachers salary outside of private school that makes 70k in two years let alone one year. I love how people compare apples to oranges, Private and Public schools. Private schools don't have to take every student, those with disability, or those who's home life is counter productive to learning.

Exactly why public unions should be illegal. The city will cave and Chicago will remain retarded. Retarded by a system that requires fundamental change but is controlled by the status quo

I understand supply & demand......Supplying Americans entertainment is a billion dollar industry. I also understand the importance of negotiation-I like Win/Win situations. I do not know what your work experience has been but with EVERY job I have ever had there are ALWAYS good workers and there are ALWAYS lazy workers-"right to work" and "union" jobs both.

My family has four teachers in it. All I can say of the crying about how easy the teachers have it, the answer is simple, go volunteer at a school all day and see for yourself what a teacher's day is like. If you do this, be sure to pick a school that has mostly free lunches, get to know the kids and the kind of lives and problems they have and bring to school.

Peace-3229398

EVERY job I have ever had there are ALWAYS good workers and there are ALWAYS lazy workers-"right to work" and "union" jobs both.

What you say is true. The issue is not whether or not there are good and bad teachers; the issue is what to do with them. The Chicago school district has, by any measure, failed its students — only 28.5 percent of 11th graders met or exceeded expectations on that state’s standardized tests — Newsweek reported that only 0.1 percent of teachers were dismissed for performance-related reasons between 2005 and 2008. When barely one in four students nearing graduation can read and do math, how is it possible that only one in one thousand teachers is worthy of dismissal?

Hi thinkaboutit,

I don't know how much you think, since in Chicago TODAY the teachers there make, on average, about $75,000 per year, not including benefits. I think this amount of money is irrelevant unless you connect it to performance. We could be over paying teachers at $1 per year if all the produced was garbage, or under paying teachers at $250,000 per year if they were producing Rembrandts and Einsteins and Carnegies.

So there must be some rational way with which to evaluate teachers, and more easily dismiss those teachers who are unable to do a job worth the money they make. This seems so basic I am appalled that I even have to suggest it to you. I understand why teachers, themselves, would not want to be evaluated. Wouldn't you like to have a job where you could fail and not be fired too? Maybe there is a simple evaluation possibility here, one that even leftists can agree to (assuming leftists even care about children in our schools).

You get a classroom full of kids. Each has an incoming stardardized test baseline score. During the academic year you would expect improvement. So, rather than punish Teacher Y because Teacher X failed the previous year, simply base the evaluation on the year over year improvement. A teacher who brings up little Daquan or Jose or Eddie further than what would be normally predicted should get a bonus. A teacher who fails to bring that boy up far enough would be penalized. More money for good performance, less for bad. Then, give one year of probation to the bad teachers. One more bad evaluation and it's time to learn a new skill, like the Fry-O-Later at Mickey D's.

But NO MORE ruining of kids' lives.

Hi Peace,

I was hoping to get your thoughts on this. You want a win/win situation, and who wouldn't? But in Chicago, and frankly it is not atypical (particularly of large cities) the student performance is dismal. We have to be honest about this and can't keep ignoring this fact. But the District spends over $13,000 per student/year to produce these results. A large number of students are functionally illiterate. 40% or so never graduate. Yet it costs the taxpayers about $150,000 to get the student to this level.

My question...These illiterate students, or those who fail to graduate, are very likely to be impoverished and/or get into the criminal justice system. Either way, they will probably be costing society more money for the rest of their lives. The point is they are likely a net loss. This means that those who DO succeed, despite the system, have an even much larger nut to crack just to get us back to break-even on the costs it required to educate them. How does more money being spent without better results in any way constitute a "win/win" compromise?

In other words, is it not more likely than not that the public school system often (and maybe definately in Chicago) is doing extreme harm to the larger society, making our survival as a society less sure? I don't CARE how much money we spend on education so long as the return on that investment both repays the treasury for the cost of education AND returns to society long term benefits. But I'm a conservative and a capitalist, and unlikely to get wispy over the presumed nobility of teachers.

I am not against teachers being compensated fairly for their efforts. They have an increasingly tough job to do and have had their hands tied in trying to control their classrooms. However, I am against the lack of accountability for the results of their efforts, especially in inner city schools where the problems are the greatest! I grew up and received my K-12 education in Chicago and though that is 35 years in the past, the difference between public and private education then was vast. There were 5 public high schools that served my district, one was one of the best in CPS, one was fair, and the other three were zoos! I had friends that attended all 5 while I attended a private school on a work/athletic scholarship program that helped to make the tuition affordable for my parents. My education has served me well through the years because beside teaching the subjects in the curriculum, my teachers taught me how to learn and question what I learned so I could continue moving forward always discovering new material. The demands placed on my time, efforts, and achievement were the greatest difference between the two systems then as I am sure it is still today.

Teachers not only need to be compensated and evaluated fairly, they also need the tools to teach effectively. I hope both sides in this dispute keep that foremost in their minds as they negotiate a settlement. Emmanuel is looking to change a system run by inertia and in order to do that many other systems in Chicago will also need to change to support what needs to happen.

Unions do get too greedy. That is the problem. Everyone gets self-important and instead of being resonable they begin to think that they should simply get more and more and more. Unions may have their place, but a lot of Americans simply are looking to take and take and take.

We all should be represented by unions. Even us "homemakers". Then we could all be on strike and simply continue to raise the debt ceiling while collecting unemployment, welfare, food stamps, whatever. It's all free and no one has to pay for it.

Better yet, Reverand Al Sharpton lamented government employees losing their jobs due to cutbacks. He said the unemployment rate wouldn't be as high if those people hadn't lost their jobs. Rev. Al is a GOLDMINE of intelligence! Using his insight, the U.S. Government should hire anyone needing a job and wipe out the unemployment problem 100% INSTANTLY!

Wow a ton of Teabaggers on this post. Why do they hate the USA so much? (Chair) Because the are told to by their leaders on the TV and radio, they just get mesmerized when they hear a voice coming out of the box.

denver bill 2

— Newsweek reported that only 0.1 percent of teachers were dismissed for performance-related reasons between 2005 and 2008. When barely one in four students nearing graduation can read and do math, how is it possible that only one in one thousand teachers is worthy of dismissal?

Sounds like dumb kids that don't want to learn and parents that don't care!

Why are 20% of the kids able to do good on the test and 80% don't? Only 20% actually took the time to STUDY AT HOME! The parents also have some of the responsibility in this. Where was the OUTRAGE when their children brought home failing grades on their report cards that they have to sign?

Also they a high rate of low income families that have children in the Chicago public schools!

Student racial breakdown

African-American: 41.6%

Latino: 44.1%

White: 8.8%

Asian/Pacific Islander: 3.4%

Native American: 0.4%

http://www.cps.edu/about_cps/at-a-glance/pages/stats_and_facts.aspx

That has alot to do with their students not graduating. Their parents are probably working 2 low wage jobs to make ends meet and don't have the time to raise their children, so they rely on the schools to do ALL of the teaching. I'm sure the children aren't going to do their homework on their own!

Rich,

Your comments underscore the heart of the education problems in all of America, not just Chicago! I am in full agreement with you. Unfortunately most don't want to look past the personal issues between the system and teachers. IT IS THE CHILDREN THAT MATTER! Throwing money down a black hole with increasingly poor results is not a solution. Conservatives have been talking about this for years but few have really understood and listened because it was a conservative idea. It is fine to have progressive thoughts and beliefs, but if they are to exclusion of all else, they then become the greatest of foolishness. ( I might add the same holds true for conservative ideas too.) Wisdom is finding a solution to a problem that works by using all available means.

sammy

What you point out is part of the problem as well, but that doesn't mean teachers get a free pass! At your job, if you continuously under perform or put out poor quality you are reprimanded. If the behavior continues, you are fired. Why should teachers be any different! The issue is coming up with a fair way to evaluate teachers. Rich-28135 points out what I believe could be a viable way to fairly evaluate teacher performance. Another problem is finding a viable curriculum that aids the teachers in their efforts while promoting a willingness to learn in the students. Students are not dumb, nor are many of them lazy, they just need the right challenges set before them to build the proper base for continued learning. Parents also need to support educators and education not be indifferent to it. Parents must be involved in their children's education and their daily lives for them to succeed.

sammy sezso

Sounds like dumb kids that don't want to learn and parents that don't care!

Why are 20% of the kids able to do good on the test and 80% don't? Only 20% actually took the time to STUDY AT HOME! The parents also have some of the responsibility in this. Where was the OUTRAGE when their children brought home failing grades on their report cards that they have to sign?

I heartily agree with you. Education is like a three-legged stool -- parents, teachers and children -- which cannot stand on less than three legs. However, failure of one leg should not be used as an excuse to prop up another failing leg. I propose going back to the days before the laudable and wise notion that anyone who wants an education should have access to one was perverted into the notion that no kids must fail. Dump the ones who can't (or won't) perform and hold the teachers to a high standard with the ones who can.

Hey archangel,

I just want to do what works. What we have isn't working. We don't need DC leadership either, and I am right now getting angrier at republicans in DC willing to bash Duncan or Obama over this mess in Chicago. CHICAGO needs to deal with the problem, not DC. My city, and my state, need to deal with our educational problems too, not DC.

The people in Chicago are not stupid, and I really take offense at people like Sammy Sezso, above, who try to make the claim that because they are predominately poor or minority they are simply unable to achieve better results. Horsecrap. Condescending and racist horsecrap. Probably true is the point that because leftists have coddled the poor and minorities in order to get a consistent voting bloc from them, and because we continue to reward failure and denigrate success, school systems like Chicago's see poor performance. But this should not excuse teachers who fail to do an acceptable job.

archangel316

sammy

What you point out is part of the problem as well, but that doesn't mean teachers get a free pass! At your job, if you continuously under perform or put out poor quality you are reprimanded. If the behavior continues, you are fired. Why should teachers be any different! The issue is coming up with a fair way to evaluate teachers.

That's what the supervisors and school board should be doing! They have an evaluation every year. These people work with the teacher on a daily basis and realize that it isn't the teachers fault that johnny can't read! Those systems of evaluation are already in place. The teachers are not at fault in 99.99% of the cases.

How many children do you have?

Are they eager to get to their homework every night? YES they have homework! HOURS of it too.

There is always the option of home schooling too isn't there? If the children can't read and write then teach them yourself! Don't just stand there and watch them fail!

The people in Chicago are not stupid, and I really take offense at people like Sammy Sezso, above, who try to make the claim that because they are predominately poor or minority they are simply unable to achieve better results.

You got it all wrong Rich-281385 It isn't that they are all stupid, but if the children don't WANT to learn then nobody can teach them! The parents are too busy working to have the time they need with the children. This comes from being poor, not lazy or stupid.

I think that the children that don't WANT to learn ARE stupid! I say that because IF they WANTED to learn then they would! The teachers are there everyday teaching. The students are there 91% of the time and half of that time or more they would rather be anywhere else! They think that school is a waste of time.

I hope we're on the same side here, the side of the children.

If 80% of the students in 8th grade can't read proficiently then where is the outrage from the parents? Not there is it.

That's because the parents know it isn't the teacher's fault, they don't care if the kid can read or write, they know that they will be poor and work for low wages anyway! Better to teach them a skill. It is very hard to break the cycle once you are poor.

denver bill 2

Dump the ones who can't (or won't) perform and hold the teachers to a high standard with the ones who can.

Well we can't just dump them. They need to be taught to be productive in their life. Let's face it, we can't all be rocket scientists, and every kid shouldn't need to go to college.

I think they should be spending more money on vocational training and making that available as an option for the children in high school.

FREE education should only be given to the top performing students. It should be earned, not entitled.

sammy sezso

Student racial breakdown

African-American: 41.6%

Latino: 44.1%

White: 8.8%

Asian/Pacific Islander: 3.4%

Native American: 0.4%

http://www.cps.edu/about_cps/at-a-glance/pages/stats_and_facts.aspx

I guess people from the middle east don't go to Chicago public schools.

How come I'm white, Sammy Davis Jr. is black, but Luis Gutierrez is LATINO? Weren't there enough colors in the crayon box for him?

Hi Sammy,

Wouldn't smart people want to learn? This seems so basic to your argument it's embarrassing I have to identify it. So poor and minority people arent't stupid, which was my synthesis of your point, they simply don't want to learn. Well, two quick points on this...

First, if they don't want to learn then the proper rewards and punishments are not in place, which was a point I made. And, second, it is the job of a teacher to find ways to get students to want to learn. Either way I read your post you mean to say that poor and minority people are stupid, or teachers do a bad job.

Since this article is about teachers I would prefer to confine the debate to this subject, but I simply couldn't ignore the fact you think poor and minority kids don't want to learn. Says who? Certainly NOT teachers. Certainly not them either. Don't believe me? Fine, believe THEM. Go and look at what happens to poor and minority children when they are able to escape the traditional public school system in favor of charter or private schools. They tend to thrive. They go to school for more hours per day, and more days per year. They learn more by any positive measure you want to employ--attendance, grades, advancement to college, standardized test scores, classroom behavior and participation.

No, I'm sorry, poor and minority people are desperate to flee the traditional public school system. They want to learn. They want to find a way to escape the prison that has been created for them for, in too many cases, life. And why they continue to vote for representatives who have consistently stood in the doorway, like Bull Connor, but to keep them IN this prison I do not know. I can only surmise, having sought public office myself, that my party does a TERRIBLE job at explaining to the poor and minorities how they are being crushed by this system and how what I would offer would be less secure, but they would be much more free to escape what is holding them back.

According to the office of Management and Budget, the U.S. Department of Education will spend a historic high of $98.467 billion on education this year. Chicago Public Schools (CPS) spend about $10,540 per pupil in 2012.

The average salary for a CPS teacher in 2011 was $71,236 , not including benefits. The median U.S. household income was $49,445. In Illinois it was $50,761.

Chicago 11th Graders Meeting College Readiness Benchmarks:

21% in Reading

19% in Math

11% in Science

38% in English

No matter how you juggle the numbers and no matter what the current contract negotiations produce our children will suffer the most fundamental failure, the lack of an education.

There abysmal Readiness Benchmarks are not just an embarrassment, they're criminal.

And we are encouraging these "graduates" to go to college? It's a wonder they can find the campus.

Here is a proposal a friend of mine sent me. It was originally designed for the Madison, WI Public School system but it will work here also.

WARNING: All you government loving Liberals may not like the initial requirements, but hang in there, the results may interest you.

First, and most importantly, abolish the Federal Department of Education and the state Departments of Public Instruction. The States can create a National commission to produce and oversee Proficiency for Academic State Standards (PASS). This is a compilation of all 50 States meeting twice a year, via video-conferencing, to determine proficiency achievements and any improvements that can be made.

Next, cut funding from the current roughly $10,540 per student we now pay in Chicago to $8,000.

You're welcome, taxpayers.

Divide that sum equally between the teachers and the principal. With a nominal class size of 30 students, a teacher's baseline salary would be $120,000. ($8,000 x 30 = $240,000 ÷ 2 = $120,000)

You're welcome, teachers.

Then multiply the teacher's base salary by the rate of student proficiency he/she produces as measured by standard testing determined by PASS. We're not talking straight A's here, just proficiency.

You're welcome, suddenly proficient students.

A teacher that produces 100% proficiency would earn $120,000, a teacher that achieves only 40% proficiency would earn only $48,000. Both would be compensated "fairly".

You're welcome, good teachers; talk to the hand, bad teachers.

Here's the tricky part. The balance of their unpaid baseline is rebated to the parents…of the kids who were proficient. Call it "No Parent Left Behind". Either take responsibility for your kids' education or pay more.

You're welcome, responsible parents. And to you irresponsible parents: you have been dragging the rest of us down for too long. Shut up, man up, and get your kids educated. Do your job.

Did I mention teachers must pay their own retirement savings and health care costs? A married couple of great teachers would earn $240k, they can afford it. (If they can handle a class size of 35 they could bring home $272k)

Teachers will be drumming for the Bush tax cuts to be permanent.

And don't tell me a good teacher can't make 35 kids proficient. Mrs. Lindroth did it in Ironwood with a bunch of un-medicated, demonic 6th graders in 1966. Back then, she did it without teachers' aides or social workers or iPads. She taught and we learned, that was the division of labor.

But what about the teachers' unions? What about the conventions? What about the masters' degrees? Knock yourself out, teachers. You can spend your own money on anything you think will improve your skills. Who better to judge the return on investment than the teacher making the investment?

The other $4,000 goes to the principal to run the school. A school with 300 kids will get a baseline budget of $1,200,000 to pay administrators, maintenance, and facility expenses – capital budgets will be handled separately via bond resolutions. The principal gets a salary of $120k plus half of whatever he/she saves from the budget baseline.

You're welcome, good principals.

Just like the teachers, principals' baseline salary is reduced according to the aggregate proficiency of the school. That's what prevents greedy and stupid cost gutting, overhead will not be cut if it legitimately improves proficiency.

You're welcome again, proficient students.

So there you have it, teachers - compete for your salary like the rest of us. Your income will be based on your ability to get those kids to perform, just like ours is when they come to work in our factories and firms after you are done with them.

I think most of you are great teachers and would quickly max out if we got the government and your unions off your back and out of your classroom. That is, if you are reading this you are great, the slackers are off sulking and whining about how unfair this fair system is.

Screw 'em, the slackers have run the show for long enough. They will quit after the first year their pay is cut, and then we will be done with them for good.

You're welcome, everyone.

That will make room for someone with talent and passion that actually wants to teach. Oh, yeah, and make $120k with summers off. Teaching will attract the best and brightest again. Competition will bring out the best in everyone, it always does.

While monetary incentives may seem crass and unseemly to education elitists, they work. That is the only reason we use them to drive improvements in business performance. And to be blunt, good intentions haven't done squat for public education, a half century of steady decline in world rankings tells us so.

Great teachers deserve great compensation, and so do great administrators. And we all deserve great schools; especially our children, whose success in life will be no greater than the proficiencies and values we have equipped them with. How do you improve educational proficiency? Pay for it. And don't pay for anything else.

Does anyone think a better plan will come from the protest lines surrounding the Chicago schools? From the federal Department of Education? From the Department of Public Instruction? From the Governor's office? From the Legislature? From WEAC? From any school board or superintendent in the State?

Me neither. That is why ultimately, we need to get the government out of the education business altogether and let choice and competition work the magic. In the meantime, let's pay for proficiency and not lose another generation to ignorance.

ROMNEY/RYAN 2012 for real Americans

I think it's funny how many rightwing Americans decry illegal aliens because their presence in the US is supposedly responsible for "bringing wages down". And, yet, when their fellow Americans try to get better pay and better treatment from their employers these same rightwing folks will accuse them of hurting the US economy.

It amazes how the American right can't think straight and how, really, they don't care either way. It's as if they're angry for the sake of being angry and love to show it.

Now, as far as the Chicago case is concerned, 40% of students failing to graduate is indeed a failure of the school system. But to blame the teachers is rather silly when inner city schools have so many more challenges to overcome, and so much less funding to do it with.

See, the schools are largely funded with property taxes, so schools in poor areas get far less money per student. The richest schools get 3 times (!) the money per student to work with than the poorest. Go to http://schools.chicagotribune.com/ and you can read about the funding gap yourself. Now add in an impoverished student base, coming to school hungry, dealing with high levels of street violence, high percentage ESL students, etc.

Anyone blaming all of these problems on the teachers is being naive and should know better.

Denver, Rich: I am a liberal Democrat and I never agreed with 'no child left behind'. It's a waste of time to teach the unteachable. However....I believe the article stated that 80% of children in Chi town's school system qualify for the food program-that tells me that most of these students probably come from economically poor environments-which means the cards are stacked against them right from the get go...poor people are basically trying to survive (it's hard to remember the objective is to drain the swamp when your up to your ass in alligators) In a perfect world ALL children would have food, a safe haven, and two parents that loved and supported and nurtured and encouraged-the projects are a war zone-and I have nothing but admiration for the teachers who work with these kids- I understand people are disgusted with wasted tax dollars and so am I -but I also understand that these children are probably not going to do as well on test scores as the children who were born with more advantages. I just disagree that blaming and firing all the teachers is a viable option.......

"Lewis said the progress on Wednesday was on the two most vexing issues -- using student test scores to evaluate teachers and giving more authority to principals to hire teachers."

It appears that money is not the main issue, especially since Chicago teachers already make about 50% more than teachers nationally (while only working 9 months a year), and they have been offered a big raise. So basically, the unions don't want teachers to be held accountable for results, and they want to keep the same old union standards for hiring that have resulted in one of the worst educational systems in the country.

But on the bright side, they do provide a lot of money to help Obama get reelected. What's humorous is that Obama's buddy, Rahn Emmanuel, is finding out the REAL problem with the lousy education system in Chicago, and how difficult it is to change anything because of the Unions.

Rich-281385

First, if they don't want to learn then the proper rewards and punishments are not in place, which was a point I made. And, second, it is the job of a teacher to find ways to get students to want to learn. Either way I read your post you mean to say that poor and minority people are stupid, or teachers do a bad job.

You forgot a very important point THREE. The PARENTS need to be sure that their children ARE learning, and to help them if they need it. This is not possible in many cases of poor families. Parents have little or no time to spend with family due to long hours on the jobs to make ends meet. The children rarely WANT to go to school, I know I never did, my kids would rather be doing other things too, but I have taught them the value of an education.

The children have many "tools" that they could use, some of the schools offer free tutors after school that in many cases are not used very much for various reasons. Some of the poorer children may be have a ride to get home if they don't get on the bus, some of them even already have jobs that help their families.

How many of those children that aren't getting good grades spend time studying at home on their own, or going to a library to try other ways to learn the subject on their own? Not many!

Firing the teachers is not the answer I never said that as a viable solution. I did say it as sarcasm though! I don't think it's the fault of the teacher because 20% of the students do O.K. so they are apparently teaching the material.

From what I have seen around the internet though the parents are backing the teachers on this strike, so apparently they do not think it is the teachers at fault either.

sammy sezso "Rich-281385 You forgot a very important point THREE. The PARENTS need to be sure that their children ARE learning, and to help them if they need it"

While what you say is true, it has always been the case that there are parents who are too ignorant to help their children, and expecting that to change is a 'pipe dream'. It has become an 'excuse' rather than a realistic solution.

It's obvious that we are failing to educate a huge percentage of our children using the current system, so we need to try a different approach - learning from the successful methods used in other parts of the World that spend a lot less in educating their students - with far better results.

Unfortunately, the teacher's unions are opposed to ANY changes, and that is a shame.

I suspect the next question people might ask is "How would YOU fix it?"

For a good start, I would suggest that you watch the 20 minute segment of Ted.com by Daphne Koller - link below - As she demonstrates, we could easily have over 95% of our students performing ABOVE the current 'norm' through interactive learning - at far less expense than our current system.

http://www.ted.com/talks/daphne_koller_what_we_re_learning_from_online_education.html

I wish I could say that the teachers were getting screwed...but everything they are getting now is substantially better than anything i get at my job. I know, I know, I don't deal with 40 inner city kids per class...but I also work mon-fri from 8-5, don't get the summer off, have to work weekends from time to time, haven't gotten a raise in a few years, and have an evaluation that actually can get me fired once per year...

I wish I could say that i feel for them, but in truth, any time a teacher seems to say anything, all I can say back is "That's way better than what I'm getting right now."

If the kids walked out of school for a week, they would be threatened with detention, suspension, and expulsion. Their parents would be paid visits by a truancy officer and threatened with arrest. How then do some of you find it acceptable for the teachers to walk out? Because their demands aren't being met? What about the needs and demands of the students and parents like school choice, elimination from government mandates and such?

The teachers are employed by the taxpayers...many of whom I'm sure didn't approve of this "vacation" for their employees.

I think the people who are bashing the teachers are a few beers short of a six pack. Or more likely they get all their ideas from the corporate media and the ignorant prejudices of their friends...

Victory to the Chicago teachers!

13 September 2012

The strike launched by 26,000 Chicago public school teachers is of vital importance to the working class throughout the United States and internationally. The World Socialist Web Site and the Socialist Equality Party stand shoulder to shoulder with the striking teachers and call on workers and young people across the country and around the world to support their fight.

The Chicago teachers have courageously defied the gang-up of both corporate-controlled parties—the Democrats and Republicans—together with the media and the financial elite. They are fighting not just for their own jobs, living standards and working conditions, important as that is. They are fighting for principles: the defense of public schools and the right of young people to a decent education.

This strike is the first major confrontation between the American working class and the Obama administration, which is directly coordinating its intervention with Mayor Rahm Emanuel, Obama’s former White House chief of staff, through Secretary of Education Arne Duncan, former head of the Chicago Public Schools.

According to a Washington Post report Wednesday, “administration officials are following the events closely and pushing hard for a speedy resolution. Duncan, a former chief executive of the Chicago school system, has been in frequent phone contact with American Federation of Teachers President Randi Weingarten... And AFT officials reached out to Obama’s reelection campaign Sunday to keep the president’s team abreast as it became clear that the strike would happen, according to people familiar with the call.”

The corporate-controlled America media portrays the teachers as opponents of “reforms” needed to improve the public schools and depicts the multi-millionaire Mayor Emanuel as the advocate of the children and their parents.

Typical is the editorial in Wednesday’s New York Times, the newspaper that regularly voices the political sentiments of the Obama administration. The editorial carries the slanderous headline “Chicago Teachers’ Folly.” It calls the strike “senseless,” while denouncing the teachers’ opposition to job evaluations based on standardized testing of students and their resistance to hiring without regard to seniority.

In reality, it is big business politicians like Emanuel and his counterparts at the state and federal level, Democratic and Republican, who have waged war against the public schools, particularly over the past three years. Since Obama, a product of the Chicago Democratic machine, entered the White House, more than 300,000 jobs have been slashed in education. His education secretary has spearheaded the attack with programs like Race to the Top, which encourages state and local governments to destroy jobs, slash pay and benefits, and privatize schools….

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2012/sep2012/pers-s13.shtml

Atlas, teachers are not employed by the taxpayers. The money that the taxpayers pay in taxes funds the salaries for the teachers. There is a clear and very important distinction between the two.

aardvark1234

Atlas, teachers are not employed by the taxpayers. The money that the taxpayers pay in taxes funds the salaries for the teachers. There is a clear and very important distinction between the two.

Agreed. The difference is that if you are their employer, instead of just the guy with the open wallet, you can fire them.

How can we expect traditional public schools in large cities, or the teachers in them, to do a better job when every excuse is made for poor performance by the very ideological group that runs them--leftists. Oh, kids are hungry. Oh, parents don't care. Oh, there isn't enough money. Oh, we have class management problems. Oh, we don't have supportive administrators.

Oh, I've had enough. The point isn't that every child must be Einstein beginning TODAY. The point is that a large view of large city traditional schools reveals the students in them are not becoming better, over time, relative to where they started. I don't expect the poor and minority student with a single parent at home to be at the level of an upper middle class student in the suburbs, and the constant comparison--and excuse making for this--by defenders of traditional public schools is a canard.

We, meaning conservatives or liberals, who want schools to produce better students are watching the trend get worse or at best remain the same. And this is with MUCH more money being injected into the system. The traditional system is failing for most kids in large cities. It is time to change it, and if that means firing "teachers" and hiring people proficient in other aspects of life, or teaching through the internet, or boys-only schools, or whatever, we need to try it. It also means that the teacher unions are in the way. They want the current wasteful system to remain in place, kids be damned.

Well I saw Chris Matthews support Jeb Bush and school choice, and Ed Schultz and Al Sharpton pounced on him like rabid dogs. Thus is the power of the public unions and their lapdogs. Sadly the party that is supported by the public unions is negotiating with the public union. Their initiative will be so watered down that all the bad teachers will keep their jobs for life.

No Heavy Lifting!

Whatever happened to the idea of the "televised teacher"?

One teacher would teach thousands of students by television all over Chicagoland and low paid people would supervise the class.

Actually, more like 9 months, not a year.

@Bobby,

Correction, 180 days, for those of us working 6 and 7 days a week to trying to make ends meet in that "other economy" most of us live in.

One teacher would teach thousands of students

That comment is just plain stupid!

Hell then, why limit to just Chicago schools, why not just get 12 teachers and have a national school system where we have one teacher teaching each grade, and put it on the internet for anyone to see for free! Force the kids to watch it and if they don't pass the test then they can't move on until they do!

Do you see how stupid it sounds?

PRICES JUST WENT UP! PAY THE TEACHERS!

sammy sezso

One teacher would teach thousands of students

That comment is just plain stupid!

Hell then, why limit to just Chicago schools, why not just get 12 teachers and have a national school system where we have one teacher teaching each grade, and put it on the internet for anyone to see for free! Force the kids to watch it and if they don't pass the test then they can't move on until they do!

Do you see how stupid it sounds?

PRICES JUST WENT UP! PAY THE TEACHERS!

Are you for real???????

When a kid is at home and demands that his parents buy him a toy, where did that idea come from??????? TELEVISION!

And one teacher does teach your kids. It's called THE TEXTBOOK. Do you think these high priced talking heads actually put the entire school year together themselves? Then they would be worth the money.

And one teacher does teach your kids. It's called THE TEXTBOOK. Do you think these high priced talking heads actually put the entire school year together themselves? Then they would be worth the money.

Been a long time since you were in school I see!

They don't have a text book for each child any more, too expensive.

1 book per class and the teacher gets it! The teachers make copies for the class from that book as needed. (educational books are VERY expensive!)

The teachers still have to submit a lesson plan to the schools that meets or exceeds what the state tells them they must teach.

Schools need teachers much more than than books!

I have no idea what television has to do with ANY of this, or why you brought it up! Your statement concerning television is true though.

So, why don't the teachers take a pay cut so they can afford books?

I don't know where you got that, sammy sezso...where I live, every child has a textbook for every class, and it's illegal for the school to refuse him a book. Even if he's lost 14 of them at $60-120 a pop, they have to give him book 15. The only consequence he faces is not getting to graduate on stage. The school can't even collect on the bill.

Va Ind

So, why don't the teachers take a pay cut so they can afford books?

The teachers are already underpaid for what they have to do.

Some of them should get "hazardous duty" pay on top of the meager wage they get now!

I don't know where you got that, sammy sezso...where I live, every child has a textbook for every class, and it's illegal for the school to refuse him a book. Even if he's lost 14 of them at $60-120 a pop, they have to give him book 15. The only consequence he faces is not getting to graduate on stage. The school can't even collect on the bill.

My children didn't get books here where I am!

My son just started college and my daughter has NEVER EVER brought home ANYTHING except and "A" on her report cards IN HER WHOLE LIFE! She is a senior in high school but will soon have her associates degree from college!

Most of the time they bring home paper copies of parts of the book that the teacher makes.

I'm telling you it freaked me out, and the school thought I was crazy to even think that they would give every child a book! They DO offer free after school tutoring for any child that wants it.

The schools cannot be depended on to teach our children everything! The parents NEED to help, but most important the children need to want to learn. ANY child that wants to learn will graduate with good grades, but they will need help.

Most kids can't wait to get to home to jump on the computer and play games and chat! NOPE! no homework tonight dad.

sammy sezso

Been a long time since you were in school I see!

They don't have a text book for each child any more, too expensive.

1 book per class and the teacher gets it! The teachers make copies for the class from that book as needed. (educational books are VERY expensive!)

The teachers still have to submit a lesson plan to the schools that meets or exceeds what the state tells them they must teach.

Schools need teachers much more than than books!

I have no idea what television has to do with ANY of this, or why you brought it up! Your statement concerning television is true though.

Are you from the third world?????

I was a grade school student in the 60's and we had science classes that were part television instructed!!! Of course, it was a Catholic grade school that was light years ahead of today's Chicago Public Drools.

Why was it that when several years ago, large groups of public school teachers were tested on the very subjects that they taught is schools.........and they did WORSE than their students??????

Are you from the third world????

That's the same attitude I had when I went to the school to ask where the books were!

They tought I was some kind of nut for asking about a books for children!

It is amazing the corners that have been cut on our children's schools. I could tell right off the bat that I couldn't depend on the schools to teach my children everything I wanted them to learn.

I was a grade school student in the 60's

Yes I even remember the old Habits that the nuns wore, sure don't miss those cracks on the knuckles from the nun's rulers though :)

The public schools have gone WAY downhill over the years!

Why was it that when several years ago, large groups of public school teachers were tested on the very subjects that they taught is schools.........and they did WORSE than their students??????

I bet you can't even pass a third grade MAP test and you live in the United States!

http://jestersdomain.com/map_test.htm

sammy... One book for a classroom of students? And the teacher makes 70K a year for 9 months of work, 7 hour days? This speaks very well of the priorities of the union teachers, across the nation. I can see the No Vote for increased property taxes rising significantly in the future. If that one book were the VNR Encyclopedia of Mathematics, I could understand one being issued per class. What does the school library have for books, or do students know how to use a library? For that matter do the teachers and administrators know how to use a library? Well, if they only get one book per class, my vote is that they get a mathematics encyclopedia.

In the Chicago Public School system, starting salaries for elementary teachers with bachelor's degrees are $51,000 as of 2011. In comparison, starting salaries for those with master's degrees are $54,000 as of 2011. However, Resumechick.com cites the salary range for elementary teachers in Chicago as being between $34,000 and $52,000 in 2010. It further cites that the starting salaries for elementary teachers in New York and Los Angeles are $41,000 and $40,000 respectively.

Read more: Elementary School Teacher Salaries in Chicago | eHow.com http://www.ehow.com/info_8318019_elementary-school-teacher-salaries-chicago.html#ixzz26NSjkhnO

Chicago pay is higher than average but starting pay as low as $34,000 isn't outrageous and $52,000 for those with Masters degrees. Adding the value of benefits when we don't do the same when discussing others wages isn't fair either as most workers receive benefits. A friend working as a security guard makes $35,000 a year, receives $15,000 a year health benefit and 6% matching 403B which would make his total income $58,000 or so with a high school education and people complain a teacher with a masters is over paid at $70,000 counting benefits? Also an excellent teacher with a large percentage of poor or immigrant students who barely speak English being fired or refused wage increases because she doesn't meet the mark on standardized tests while a mediocre teacher being rewarded yearly merely because she's in an affluent area and all her students are native born isn't fair either. Few teachers only work 7 hours. Unlike other jobs they have to grade and prepare the next days studies after class lets out.

But Rahm isn't a Democrat. He ran for Mayor as a non-partisan!

this situation doesn't look good for Democrats.

It's NOT just the democrats that look bad over this either!

But Rahm isn't a Democrat.

Details, details, details, these people don't care about FACTS.

PAY THE TEACHERS!

George Carlin has an insight on American Education it goes like this:

There's a reason for this, there's a reason education sucks, and it's the same reason it will never ever ever be fixed. It's never going to get any better. Don't look for it. Be happy with what you've got... because the owners of this country don’t want that.

I'm talking about the real owners now... the real owners. The big wealthy business interests that control things and make all the important decisions. Forget the politicians. The politicians are put there to give you the idea that you have freedom of choice. You don’t. You have no choice. You have owners. They own you. They own everything. They own all the important land. They own and control the corporations. They’ve long since bought and paid for the Senate, the Congress, the state houses, the city halls. They got the judges in their back pockets and they own all the big media companies, so they control just about all of the news and information you get to hear. They got you by the balls.

They spend billions of dollars every year lobbying. Lobbying to get what they want. Well, we know what they want. They want more for themselves and less for everybody else, but I’ll tell you what they don’t want. They don’t want a population of citizens capable of critical thinking. They don’t want well-informed, well-educated people capable of critical thinking. They’re not interested in that. That doesn’t help them. That’s against their interests.

That’s right. They don’t want people who are smart enough to sit around a kitchen table and think about how badly they’re getting f%#ked by a system that threw them overboard 30 f*&kin’ years ago. They don’t want that. You know what they want? They want obedient workers. Obedient workers, people who are just smart enough to run the machines and do the paperwork. And just dumb enough to passively accept all these increasingly sh*ttier jobs with the lower pay, the longer hours, the reduced benefits, the end of overtime and vanishing pension that disappears the minute you go to collect it.

And now they’re coming for your Social Security money. They want your f@%kin' retirement money. They want it back so they can give it to their criminal friends on Wall Street. And you know something? They’ll get it. They’ll get it all from you sooner or later 'cause they own this f@#kin' place. It’s a big club and you ain't in it. You and I are not in the big club. By the way, it’s the same big club they use to beat you over the head with all day long when they tell you what to believe. All day long beating you over the head with their media telling you what to believe, what to think and what to buy.

The table is tilted, folks. The game is rigged and nobody seems to notice. Nobody seems to care. Good, honest, hard-working people: white collar, blue collar, it doesn’t matter what color shirt you have on. Good, honest, hard-working people continue — these are people of modest means — continue to elect these rich c#&ksuckers who don’t give a f*%k about them. They don’t give a f@#k about you. They don’t give a f$#k about you.

They don’t care about you at all! At all! At all! And nobody seems to notice. Nobody seems to care. That’s what the owners count on. The fact that Americans will probably remain willfully ignorant of the big red, white and blue d@ck that’s being jammed up their a$$holes every day, because the owners of this country know the truth. It’s called the American Dream, 'cause you have to be asleep to believe it.

The mayoral election in Chicago is currently run on a non-partisan basis. None of the candidates ran as Democrats or Republicans. Considering that Mayor Emmanuel is currently wearing a second hat as a fund raiser for a PAC that supports President Obama's re-election it's probably safe to say he is still a Democrat.

.

Rahm Emanuel should fix the city's problems. Striking teachers doesn't look good for Rahm Emanuel.

Or Obama, thats what makes this issue so dispicable. It's the ultimate in extortion attempts. "Give us what we want now, and we promise with extra sprinkles on top, that we will do a better job, and also vote for your ex-boss in November!"

MRZ-1191248,

Exactly! That is what makes Chicago such a mess - it's a circular arrangement between the politicians in Illinois/Chicago and the unions.

Finally, now that there is no money left to scratch the unions back, the Democrats are put in a position to finally break the cycle. They have run out of ways to extort money out of the population. Oh yeah, Rahm isn't a Democrat, he ran as a Non-Partisan (I guess that way the Democrats don't get blamed for the mess).

Regarding Obama's election, the strike doesn't matter. It isn't like the CTU members will decide to vote for a Republican.

Oh yeah, Rahm isn't a Democrat, he ran as a Non-Partisan (I guess that way the Democrats don't get blamed for the mess).

So, if he was republican, then we wouldn't have this strike? If a republican takes Rahm's place this will all go away? NO....

Or Obama,

This has NOTHING to do with the presidential election! This is a local and state issue.

Why don't we do what the Tea Party Republicans want and cut all the federal money from the school system right NOW??!

See how well the cities in America do when every workers walks off the job!

See how well of America is when states have to pay for the schools without Federal help!

State taxes would skyrocket!

PAY THE TEACHERS!

@ sammy,

PAY THE TEACHERS!

Let me finish that for you, OR ELSE! Oh, and thanks for the lesson in "Liberal Finance 101".

sammy sezso,

So you believe that Republican's and Democrat's would treat this union exactly the same?

If it was a Republican, he would file a lawsuit against the CTU because it is illegal under Illinois law for teachers to strike for any purpose other than wages or benefits.

If it was a Republican, he would file a lawsuit against the CTU because it is illegal under Illinois law for teachers to strike for any purpose other than wages or benefits.

AND the republican would lose! The teachers have NOT made any agreements on wages YET!

The strike IS legal.

Until the teachers accept and ratify a new contract by majority vote the strike will continue and it is in fact a LEGAL strike.

Kinda sucks when it's YOU over the barrel doesn't it!

As the federal government cuts funding for the states and the schools this will be happening more and more all over the nation.

It won't be long till the states start going up on YOUR taxes to cover the money cut by the federal governments to the schools!

The republicans just don't get it! You can't have it both ways. People refuse to work unless they are paid fairly, and without unions backing them this would never be possible!

Thank God that the union is there to protect the workers!

Do you really want minimum wage teachers teaching our children, so you pay less taxes?

You got yours and to hell with everyone else is a very bad attitude for you to have!

@Sammy,

90% of these are paid trolls. What? You didn't think we knew?

It is called the Illinois Educational Labor Relations Act, passed last year by the Democratic Illinois House and Senate, signed by the Democratic Governor and prohibits teachers from striking on all matters except compensation involving pay and benefits.

If it isn't about pay, it is illegal in Illinois. Look it up if you don't believe me. Even Rahm is proposing taking them to court if it isn't settled this week.

Of course it doesn't and if you pay attention closely, the signs they are holding up have his name on them claiming he's a bully.

Uh.................., Bananas that are hard to peel or STD free fruit or how about the bananas rights to choose it's form of birth control, and will the bananas health insurance cover this also if it is a catholic banana????

DrMan

80% of the 8th graders in Chicago are not proficient in reading or math.

Got a source for that or is it YOUR insipid opinion?

sammy sezso

Try the Illinois State Board of Education.

In a national poll of high school students over 40% didn't know Panama was in central america, couldn't find texas on a U.S. map or Germany on a world map. It isn't just a Chicago problem.

You didn't teach that!

@ Don,

Heard you the first time! And while you seem to be intent on your position, please enlighten us all on exactly what it is they are striking about, if not, please remain after class and write a 100 times "Teachers never strike for money".

Don Giacomo,

According to the Illinois Educational Labor Relations Act, the only reason that a school union is allowed to strike is over wages or benefits. The law prohibits teachers from striking on any matters except compensation involving pay and benefits.

So your belief is that the teachers are purposely breaking the law?

If they aren't striking for money, then why did they ask for a 30% raise over 4 years? The strike isn't "entirely" about money, but it is definitely a major motivating factor. Even the quote from a teacher says the important things are evaluations, benefits and pay.

Oh ROFL, Don. Maybe if you read the article, a 14% raise is part of the collective bargaining. Sheesh!

What a job. lets see, work 7 hours a day, sometimes 5 days a week, all holidays off, 2 weeks for christmas and most of the summer. On top of all that, they are going to be pulling in six figures. The responsible thing to do would be to give them 48 hours to return to work or be fired. They could talk to some of the x air controllers and figure out their next career. What a waste most teachers are.

Just like the Liberals and Unions to be expected a raise for poor performance...

The price went up on Gasoline for NO reason either! The gas isn't "better", in fact it's worse, and it costs more. Everyone just shrugs and says, Look the price jumped again.

Corporations and businesses have all raised their consumer prices over the years, We do not get better performance, or a better product, we just pay more.

It's about time the price goes for WAGES in this country!

The prices just went up again! Just shrug and move along as you normally do.

PAY THE TEACHERS!

Prices have gone up do to monetary expansion, you know the flooding of the M2 money supply, by the Federal Reserve. This has been done with the support of Democrats and Republicans, this is reason number 1 why prices have risen.

Reason 2 would be cronyism, as practiced by again Democrats and Republicans. This is the manipulation of the market to enact artificial markets void of true consumer demand and instead uses forced supply. This allows these corporations and government to raise the price index of their goods, effectively reducing not only our purchasing power but also our choice.

Now, this is the exact thing that the Department of Education has done...they have effectively reduced our power of knowledge and our choice and want to raise the price index. Also the poor performance scores have been around longer than the last couple of years of "low" funds (the capital devoured by the system is still astronomical).

So instead of your "PAY THE TEACHERS," how about

TEACH THE KIDS ACTUAL INFORMATION

"we have had enough" you are CRAZY. At what point were these teachers forced to take their job? The pay is what the pay is. I'm sure they cant afford to send their kids to private schools, not and pay for 2 new cars, new homes, vacations, etc..... It is a priority standpoint. On 76K per year, you could pay for private school if you were willing to give up something. But public sector union employess want EVERYTHING but sacrfice nothing. Fire any and all striking teachers and start over

@ 1grinding...obviously you missed the sarcasm.

@Lost in the Pine Barrens, you are right, I did not see the sarcasm but as I reread it, you are right. I was probably schooled in Chicago LOL

Eh, I blame the department of education.

Please, define a 'real' teacher.

It wouldn't be one of the strikers in chicago.

@unreal, please, define a 'real' teacher by providing positive, constructive attributes; not examples of what it is not.

Idiot! Dolt!

They initially asked for 35% and that was negotiated down to 14%. That's a done deal. The sticking point right now is evaluations - period! Rahm and Obama want evaluations based on grades, which is what you guys want too. READ A NEWSPAPER AND TURN OFF FOX NOISE, GLEN BECK, AND RUSH LIMBAUGH. Your blood pressure will go down, you'll feel better, and you won't be filled with hate because the rwnj's are lieing to you. Btw, Fox News is NOT a news organization.

Blearyeyed

I think 4% a year for 4 years comes to 16%. The teacher evaluations are not totally based on grades (I think you meant standardized test scores). I believe that the union is also worried that the money that will pay for those increases may come from the savings gained from closing several schools in the city. That means fewer dues paying teachers. ps. I did not get this information from watching Fox or MSNBC for that matter. Of course I get nothing from MSNBC on the strike. I wonder why they don't think it's important enough to report on. You'd think this would be right up Ed Schultz's alley. He was such a presence in Wisconsin a few months ago. I'm sure the teachers in Chicago must be miffed.

Neither is MSNBC, CNBC, NBC, ABS, CNN, HLN etc. They are all mouth pieces for the political and corporate elite.

I'm going to go to my boss today and tell him I want a 16% raise and by the way I don't want to be evaluated on my performance.

try that and they'd fire you in a heartbeat! But if everyone in the company is standing behind you and demands a raise or the company gets shut down for an indefinite time, then maybe the boss will think twice before firing everyone!

UNIONS ARE THE WORKERS BEST FRIEND AND THE COMPANIES WORST NIGHTMARE!

It FORCES the company to be fair with it's workers! Unions take away the power from the boss and forces them to be fair with all their workers.

Just look at these comments. Most people on here think teachers should be low paid just because the taxes are how the schools get any money at all! But in reality most on here couldn't hold a teaching position because they simply aren't smart enough to teach.

Just wait until the tea party cuts the federal dollars out from the school's budgets! Then you'll see how high state taxes can really go!

Sammy,

The problem with your argument is that the employers of the CTU are the taxpayers. Unfortunately, the negotiations are not with the employers, but rather elected officials who they help to get in office. This is very different from negotiating with a public or private company where the negotiations are directly with the employer.

I would agree with you if the Union put their plan to a public vote, so the real employers could decide.

Teachers know they have to be evaluated. The fear is by whom and by what standards. Sure, if you're teaching in an upper middle class, well educated district, your students will be in class, will do their homework, will be motivated by parental expectations, will expect to graduate, will show a modicum of respect for the educational process, and will do great on standardized tests.

Then you go to inner-city schools with exactly the opposite situation. And as a teacher, you're supposed to teach against these issues and expect students to do well on tests! Seriously? And your salary will be based on this!

How would you like to work in an office where your co-workers sabotage all your work, show up late, miss deadlines, you have outdated equipment, you have to buy your own office supplies, the boss changes the rules/expectations every few months, your supervisor has taken a dislike to you for whatever reason and doesn't help you, and you have to work extra hours with no pay and every year have to pay out of pocket for higher education. And then you're going to be evaluated on what you AND your co-workers have accomplished - no matter how good you are.

But other of your co-workers in another department have all the newest equipment, A/C, cooperative supervisors and co-workers in their department who have stated goals, higher salaries and benefits, supervisors who work with them to improve their work, and cheer them on, and all supplies and higher education are paid for by the business. And evaluations are done by the supervisor (remember the one who hates you) and are based on the combination of you and your co-worker's output. Fair?

Yea, I know some of you self-righteously will state "Well, quit and go to work somewhere else." Jobs, including teacing jobs are not that easy to come by.

And then tell me how you evaluate an Honors English class vs a Basic English, PE to History, AP Science to Special ed. There are so many variables. Students aren't a product that can easily be measured by Quality Control standards. Show any teacher a truly fair evaluation, and they will be accepting. (Except for the truly incompetent teachers who should never have received a teaching credential from any University- but that's another pet peeve of mine.)

Define "fair," sammy. "Fair" is simply Oblameo's latest four-letter word and you're overusing it just like all the other liberals. LIFE IS NOT "FAIR," and anyone who is in the real world understands this. The constant whining from the liberals and "progressives" about "fair" is a ridiculous concept.

Unfortunately, the negotiations are not with the employers, but rather elected officials who they help to get in office

Those are YOUR elected officials that YOU elected to vote FOR YOU!

YOU did have a say so in these negotiations and by casting votes you appointed the elected officials to do the voting for you!

LIFE IS NOT "FAIR," and anyone who is in the real world understands this.

You're right life isn't fair.

So why don't all you people just abandon the teachers? To hell with fire them all and board up the schools until they can be sold at auction! Dissolve the school district and stop paying school taxes.

Teach your own dumb-ass kids AT HOME BY YOURSELF!

If you want the job done right DO IT YOURSELF!

If you don't want to do the job yourself then PAY THE TEACHERS!

Judy1217: I hope posters all read your comment and take a step back to think about it. We all want students to do better, we all want better graduation rates. Teachers are evaluated each year, in fact I had over a dozen classroom "drop in's" last year. Some (2) were formal assessments, some were statistical gathering (were kids working in groups or alone, were activities hands-on or book work...).

But to judge my performance on how kids do on a reading or math test is ridiculous, I teach robotics and photography and pre-engineering. How do you judge an art teacher?Music?Gym?Special Ed - behavioral?

There is no simple or fair evaluation process for all of these roles.

Finally, pay-for-performance doesn't work. Who pays? Is there a budgeted amount? Let's say there's 10K per school to hand out to the teachers who increase scores. If all teachers succeed do they split the 10K...wow $200 bonus for working your butt off. What if only 1 succeeds = 10K bonus and 49 teachers fired? Really? does that make for a collaborative or competitive/corruptive environment?

Unfortunately, lack of education and critical thinking skills have befallen our society and these boards. The vocal few shout "Fire them all". I hope those people realize that their bosses could do the same thing. Dragging each other down is not the answer - we need to lift each other up.

Sammy, seems like all of the teachers in Chicago are being treated very well as far as salary and benefits right now. I do not know of anyone public or private that can continue to offer the same benefits as before at the same cost. Everything is going up. Unions 50 + years ago were probably a good thing, but today their time has passed. You say unfair but at some point there has to be reasonableness with all of the Unions, and that went away a long long time ago!!!!!

Unions 50 + years ago were probably a good thing, but today their time has passed.

The time for workers to have a voice in their employers is NEVER past. Unions have always taken PAY CUTS when showed that there is a need for it too. The wages don't always go up! The auto workers have taken many cuts in recent years.

The union is simply the collective voice of the workers. There is safety in numbers, Them sticking together FORCES the employer to be fair or risk losing their workers for who knows how long.

UNIONS WILL ALWAYS BE GOOD FOR THIS NATION!

Sammy sezso, you are eating the mushrooms again. I'm sure at one time the unions were needed and did a good job. That day is long gone. they are in it for the money and to protect the truely bad worker. As for losing their workers. Why are companys' moving to right to work states? So the unions can't hold the hostages.

Sammy,

Look at the unions in the grocery stores in Illinois. The only unionized chain in northern Illinois is Jewel/Osco.

The non-union stores offer better benefits and pay than Jewel and Jewel is slowly starving because they cannot hire workers. All of them would rather work for the nicer stores and not pay the $1/hour union dues. I predict Jewel will disappear within the next 2 years unless they get rid of their unions.

unreal-3070801Sammy sezso, you are eating the mushrooms again. I'm sure at one time the unions were needed and did a good job. That day is long gone.

The Chicago teachers are disagreeing with you! Without the union they would have had a pay cut and benefits cut by now! The unions have saved our teachers for us all!

Would you rather have minimum wage teachers just so YOU could save tax dollars? Good luck finding teachers!

The non-union stores offer better benefits and pay than Jewel and Jewel is slowly starving because they cannot hire workers. All of them would rather work for the nicer stores and not pay the $1/hour union dues.

So even though the wages and benefits are LOWER on the union jobs the store is still losing money?

It sounds to me that, if Jewel had to pay more or as much as the other stores for workers then they would already be out of business! Of course nobody wants to work any job, union or nonunion for less pay!

How is the union causing jewel to go under by providing lower paid workers to them?

Maybe the owners of Jewel are taking too much in salary and taking more of the profits than they should!

that's Barry S. You know, the one with sooo many social security numbers.

If they are not striking over salary issues, and the issues left unsettled are class size, evaluations, and who controls personnel decisions, then these remaining issues make the continuation of the strike illegal in Chicago.

How insipid can your comment be!

They can't settle anything until the teachers union accepts a contract. Wages are NOT settled because they do NOT have a contract yet. Strike is legal.

But class size, evaluations, etc. cannot be part of the negotiations per state law...

Does that mean they'll be able to arrest the union negotiators? Bet that'll get some action going.

But class size, evaluations, etc. cannot be part of the negotiations per state law...

.

Does that mean they'll be able to arrest the union negotiators? Bet that'll get some action going.

Sorry, the strike IS LEGAL! But feel free to pursue those lawsuits, the lawyers need some money anyway!

sammy, are you a lawyer or a cub fan? Either way, you sound like a loser!

Tenure hasn't existed for decades, get with the times. A teacher can be fired based on poor performance or any other number of documented factors. The trouble is, administration has to go to the trouble of documenting those issues. Many are simply too lazy to do so. Finally, there are less lazy teachers than lazy employees at your work place - this is not a private/public issue, it is universal. To say otherwise is a lie.

Bob your statements lack any foundation in fact. A multitude of these teachers that you claim have no tenure collect full salary for years even when convicted of a crime and continue to collect a pension when they get out of prison!

Tom-1002719

In the end who does a union really protect?

The workers are protected by the unions.

You seem to not understand WHY we have unions in this country!

Unions exist because companies have not treated their workers fairly and forced them to work in unsafe conditions so the company can make more money, the only thing workers could do was to stick together to protect each others job and demand a fair wage! Without a union behind them the teachers would be forced to take A PAY CUT!

How many non union jobs have given out any raise at all in the past 5 years or so? Very few, But now look at how many companies are earning record profits!

That's because the prices to the consumer has gone up more and more over the years, but the wages has not. Companies are being greedy and stacking up their profits in offshore accounts and not passing anything along to the workers. It's finally starting to come full circle to bite EVERYONE in the butt!

You've been saving for this haven't you America? I'm sure that everyone here is ready for their taxes to go up along with the price they pay for food and gasoline? Do you think the wages will go up before the prices? LMFAO! AMERICA you all better have been saving money for this!

Sammy,

Again you equate taxpayers to a corporation.

As you state, most non-union taxpayers received a small increase (2% average for my industry). These are the people paying for the negotiated increases for the teachers union. How can teachers expect a higher increase than their employers, the taxpayers?

This is exactly why companies are leaving the state of Illinois and going to other states with lower taxes.

Armurray

Thanks for the assist!

Sammy in 1946 your argument had validity. This is no longer the case.

The teachers could ONLY negotiate pay increases, but could reduce the % of what they were asking for other concessions. Example

Union: we want a 12% increase in pay

Board: we'll give you 4% plus a class size limit of 30

The union can't ask for the size limit but the Board can offer it, both sides can come to a consensus that makes everyone happy.

Tom: if you're willing to go back to a time when workers had no rights...keep thinking unions have no place in today's world. Unions fought for the weekend, safe workplaces, overtime, fair pay. When you eliminate unions you think corporations will just offer you those things? Or will your pay and hours and benefits get cut while the corps hire on the cheapest labor they can manipulate? Unions are the reason you have good pay and benefits - you can choose to drag everyone down to your level or you can work and help yourself up to a better place.

First of all we are not discussing corporations we are discussing "PUBLIC EMPLOYEES"!

This fight is supposedly not about MONEY as the pay raise has been offered and agreed to.

A primary focus of the fight is that the union will not allow teachers to be evaluated and discharged on performance.

If you work hard and perform well you ALMOST always get rewarded UNLESS you are in a union and performance is TRUMPED by seniority!

In the end it is the children that get stuck with the mediocre and the lazy.

This fight is supposedly not about MONEY as the pay raise has been offered and agreed to.

They have no contract yet and have agreed to NOTHING officially.

A primary focus of the fight is that the union will not allow teachers to be evaluated and discharged on performance.

B.S.

The teachers are evaluated every year by supervisory staff and fellow faculty that work with them daily.

The strike is not primarily about compensation. Chicago teachers make an average of $75,000 per year

key issues around teacher evaluation and layoffs and recall.”

The union is concerned that more than a quarter of its membership could be fired because the teachers work in poor neighborhoods where students perform poorly on standardized tests, which Emanuel wants to use to evaluate teachers.

OK Sammy! If you say so!

Let me count the ways why performance pay doesn't work.

At least 7 of the students in your class have an IEP or 504 plan that excludes/includes various disabilities and accommodations that must legally be met in order to provide choice and success for that child. The child is not legally obligated to accept those accommodations.

Children are human beings first, not widgets or tools of the industrialized war machine; nor are they adults who have control over their professional lives.

Children are not a 'product' or 'service' that exists in the business world. Education relies solely on the teacher's understanding of childhood development, multiple intelligences, CRISS strategies, Marzano foundations and human interaction to help them be successful in the real world. You cannot just tell a student they are performing poorly and expect them to change that behavior, you have to teach it to them; which requires time and a multitiude of strategies learned in college.

Student performance cannot be the deciding factor for evaluation just like a state exam should not be the deciding factor for your child to graduate. It sets up a loop of ignorance that will only slow the progress of the country.

How many jobs allow you to walk away at 5:00 and not take any work home? A majority of them. How many jobs require you to work with 30+ CHILDREN (read, not adults) and keep all of them actively engaged for those 7 hours a day? Teaching and day care.

Please, instead of complaining about how little your child's teacher does for them, go volunteer in the classroom for a day and see how grateful your son/daughter's teacher is for the help.

Havelinaz! I wish I had seen your post before I posted above. It's so nice to see someone who understands the difference in students and widgets and the difficulty in comparing teachers to others. Right on!

I actually taught a special ed class in the former women's lounge! But that's okay, I got moved up to the Storage room. Well, it was a big storage room, even though it only had one access door, which is supposedly illegal. But, who's complaining? And each year I spent hundreds of dollars of my own money to provide materials for my students. After 7 years, I finally threw in the towel.

None of these Eval systems base 100% on the standardized test scores or student performance!

They all include both objective and subjective components.

Quality education for the students is not on the list of concerns for the union. They must protect their DUES paying members regardless of their ability or lack there of!

I fully agree with the comments on the variety of circumstances one faces when dealing with children. I have six of my own!

Regardless of the circumstances an effective educator will help a student to improve.

Judy you made the right choice. If the job is not for you do something else.

Tom,

How do you evaluate an art teacher? gym? Special education - cognitively disabled? Special ed - behavioral? Technology? Music?

Teachers are evaluated each year already based on planning, implementation, environment, classroom management etc... the problem comes from administration where unclear objectives, time, favoritism, laziness all factor in.

Kids are not widgets, they're not all the same. Sometimes food is the main reason a kid comes to school. If you have a plan to fairly evaluate all teachers from k-12 please forward it to the SB in Chicago and we can move on. Otherwise your uninformed opinions only serve to pollute and incite, not resolve and heal.

Judy, I taught science off of a rolling cart for 1 year and in a double wide trailer for my next 2 years. It was actually the nicest classroom in the school (I had A/C!!), the city made the school move the trailer to the back lot because citizens complained it looked trashy. I had to shovel a trail from the school to my class door in the winter. When the referendum came up to add classrooms and get rid of the trailer, it failed. Again, money was more important than education for these taxpayers. All told the entire referendum would have cost taxpayers an average of $11 a year. But that was too much.

Bob,

I have a Doctorate in Chemistry and have a natural aptitude for math and sciences. I lack artistic and musical talent however I had a ceramics teacher my freshman year in high school that taught both taught me concepts and helped me develop an appreciation for the arts. My actual artistic ability was not significantly increased but I was educated.

As a note I lost my father at a young age and grew up on welfare. My best meal of the day was my FREE school lunch!

As I stated before a GOOD teacher will help a child improve regardless of the circunstances.

Tom, you still getting the free lunch?

No I am not. I now pay for my lunch (except when my boss is buying) and my children's lunch as well as a boatload of taxes.

Try this... An excellent teacher is rated based on the current crop of student's state test score's average (formula a secret) which allows the teacher to get paid a bit more. The next year, the crop of student's state test scores are lacking and her pay goes down. This teacher differentiates instruction, listens to the children and adapts her curriculum to their needs while still including all of the necessary components of her subject and other's into the year.

This teacher teaches art, or PE, or band, or theatre, or orchestra or history, government, or an untested area. Is this fair? Is your salary based on whether your cubicle mate or fellow employee does their job well or poorly? Is your salary based on human being's abilities not in your control?

Don't blame the teacher.

So how IS that hopey-changey thing from your great organizer working out for you? Apparently hope and change does not work in Chicago classrooms yet we continue to demand more money for less work and no evaluations that mean anything. When does hope and change stop and a true forward begin?

Romney/Ryan 2012