Let me see if I understand this: Chicago teachers are already the second-highest-paid teachers in the country, work one of the shortest school days, are paid on a schedule instead of individual merit, have the lowest-performing students, and they think they deserve a better contract? They're shouting at their negotiators for not getting them more?

I can't think of anything appropriate to say that wouldn't be censored by polite society.

Hang tough, Rahm (first time ever I've agreed with you). Bust their overpaid, ineffective asses!

Unions need to be taken out of the Public Sector. This is such a crock. The poor children, whom they supposedly are looking after, are the only ones losing here. These crook teachers should be GRATEFUL that they have a job!

$49k - $92k for a part time job.....what in the hell are they complaining about?

Prima Donnas, all of them

You mean you can't teach kids everything they need to know in just 5 hours a day? Which probably includes time for lunch and for the younger kids recess. I would love that great of a part time job. Silly me for trying to finish my Teaching degree with the thoughts of going to schools and educating the kids. Guess 20 years in the military working for a living ruined me on the concept of getting big money to do nothing...maybe I should choose a degree where I will work and not just help the kids.

....do you are remember their initial demands was a 30% raise over 2 years?

What does this actually solve?
Fourth grade students still score well below the average for reading comprehension & math, while Chicago will still have graduation rates of less than 50%.

...Chicago...the Windy City because it blows...

The pay wouldn't be abusive if they were expected to deliver transformational results. As they're righteously, indignantly, committed to producing zero improvement for the children of Chicago, they all need to be fired. They're not worth half their salary.

Oh, and markfrederik, they're children. They're the future and stuff. Maybe adults who think of children as "savages" elicit the bad behavior they expect from kids.

Mark you need to get over your indignation......since I do not know you I will assume your a good teacher like many of the ones in my family, I am in school finishing my teaching degree after serving 20 years in the military....and soon to be reired medically after injuries suffered during multiple tours in the middle east. My goal to be a teacher and help kids is because while there are very many good teachers out there....the unions have hijacked the system and now also protects teachers who are not worth the cost of the paper their degrees are written on. So before you get all fired up over statements people make think instead on why these were made, and also stand back and see all the problems that exist in our school systems, some from bad teachers, others from under funding. Maybe if you help fix the problem instead of protecting those who sdeserve no protection like the bad teachers. Then others can work on fixing the problems in their own industries, maybe even the kids you educated or kids that will be taught by some of the present good teachers.

Have you met Chicago's students? Some of that is combat pay. Plus, what's wrong with asking to have the textbooks delivered by the first day of school instead of six weeks later? Maybe that why these kids score below average.

I must say I agree, and I a Union supporter. This strike is silly and for the first time I will admit, maybe this they should start being replaced as soon as Monday with non-union teachers. I may get a lot of bad comments but there pay is not bad now. I do not agree with this strike.

I'm with you! Time to fire ALL the union workers and hire folks that care about the kids. Union's had their day... back in the 30's. We don't need them today. Laws have been passed to handle the reason unions were created. The market takes care of the rest. Unions need to GO!

Fire everyone of them tomorrow morning! Teachers in Chicago make around $70,000 a year, ask them how they feel about unemployment wages.

This union has proven the Chicago labor movement is neither dormant nor dead," Lewis said in a statement on the union’s blog late on Saturday. "We have solidified our political power and captured the imagination of the nation. No one will ever look upon a teacher and think of him or her as a passive, person to be bullied and walked on ever again."

Uh huh! Yep! Chicago teachers now in charge... nevermore to be bullied, walked on... or RESPECTED!

The school districts are caving, 70% teacher "evaluation" with only 30 student improvements as a measure fpr performance?? I am having a flashback of my Social Studies teacher sleeping the whole hour playing the film backwards to make it to the next bell. Pretty pathetic.

Add alot of guidance counselers who specialized in dropout workforce placement.

Wow, could Mitt Romney get a better example of how the liberals are destroying our schools in this country? By pulling this strike now, the union has shot itself in the foot and have handed a big boost to the Republicans in the country! With most people not having a raise since Obama took office and a rapidly expanding national debt, Chicago has become the poster child for liberal and union over-reach! These people never believe that they should make ANY sacrifice for the good of the students and the tax payers. They just want MORE no matter what the consequences. A work day below 6 hrs a day and $49,000/yr to start plus 3 months off and great benefits and retirement sounds a bit extreme to most taxpayers.

With all the people out of work, and the economy sliding away,you have jobs making more than most average citizens. You need to stop being greedy and get back to work and thank God you have jobs. You are nothing but a bunch of selfish a-holes. Wish Reagan were here and just let you all go and put people to work that appreciate the worth of a job and love helping kids learn.The whole world has gotten so selfish, it's a shame. And all our President is worried about is offending some muslim.

TEACHERS are trampled ,abused, unappreciated every DAY by parents, students, administration! With the current working conditions and attitudes, why would ANYONE want to deal with the savages? LET THEM STAY IGNORANT! pregnant and ignorant:the road map to poverty! In a few years the parents will have to deal with the gems from their family jewels and fruit of their loins themselves since there will be no teachers!! See what a wonderful impoverished society we have then!!! IF it's SO easy--- why don't YOU become a teacher? because YOU lack the education?skills?patience? can't pass a state required Praxis test??? LOL! Just a teacher???a retired one!!

Mark, teachers are not the only people that deal with dificulties in their jobs. You are not that special.

I do not know if it was a big boost to Romney or his party but I do agree the timing was not good for this Union. The Unions should be treading lightly like the rest of us. We are not out of the woods yet and to ask for a three or for year contract raise. That is just gouging when we are all tighten are belts, a raise at all is an insult to me.

I think we are all overlooking some basic facts here. They (Chicago Students) perform terribly on the metric tests, but only have a 5 and a half hour school day. But they want to evaluate at 40% based on apparently over crowded classrooms and what amounts to a half hour of instruction. So in that regard, I can certainly side with the teachers. That is fair from fair or adequate. So, they want to increase the school day to what 7 hours and still rate the teachers at 30%. So lets do the math here folks - subtract 30 minutes - 45 minutes for lunch - brings classroom time to what 6 and a half hours. So you have math, social studies, art, music, science, english, a foreign language, phys ed, reading, and a few more classes.

Now when I was in school - we had 45 minutes for lunch. Each class was 50 minutes long. A 10 minute break between classes in which to walk to the next class, and a 15 minute home room. School was from 7:30 - 3:30 - so an 8 hr day. Now as I remember when we had the "aptitude tests" I can't remember anyone "failing" them and we had 20-25 kids in a class. So, I really don't know why Chicago School System should be as disfunctional as it is. When something is broken, you fix it. If you don't have a clue how to fix it or have a plausable solution, you try to emulate something that works. If that entails sending someone or a group of someones to go and observe, ask questions, and physically SEE how it works, then you do it.

With that said, I guess you have to put the ego aside to make the improvement. And it sure doesn't seem like EITHER SIDE has a clue, or is really willing to step outside the EGO ZONE to make the necessary improvements. And don't get me wrong here, there MUST BE PARENT INVOLVEMENT with the kids, which more than apparently IS NOT HAPPENING.

They do need a longer school day. Teachers need to teach children, not teach to a test. These teachers have fought for the children. Text books starting the 1st day of school and more special teachers. Education should be the number one priority in this country. If children do not have textbooks for six weeks into the school year and there are not enough teachers for all the special needs children then we have a country of poorly educated children.

Just because you have a teachers certificate does not make you a teacher. There is a lot more to teaching than a piece of paper. In my opion only 50% of the teachers in America should be teachers.

If I could do it I would fire the teachers and hire replacements. It's not about the money! Frankly, I don't care if we pay them more money or not, since that conversation is pointless unless in the context of improving student performance. Someone above got it right: These teachers aren't worth half their current pay. Why? Because Chicago schools produce, think about this, rampant FAILURE, not rampant SUCCESS.

We can argue about what causes this rampant failure, but what I notice in this entire strike debacle--but for the textbook claim--is that the teacher's union doesn't give a rat's rear about student performance. Why have people employed to do a specific job that those very people don't seem to place as their first priority?

So, fire them. Hire replacements, and if they get the job done and save some of these young people, pay them all they are worth. But so long as a teacher is not helping make things better, then they are helping to make things worse, and they have to go.

my school marm...made it by on little money...she was areal dimestore diamond...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=irqC7oTlen4

@Brenda-251440

Plus, what's wrong with asking to have the textbooks delivered by the first day of school instead of six weeks later?

Why don't YOU tell us? In my experience the people who favor the unions also favor more government, i.e. bureaucratic, involvement in the education process. People who clamour for more "funding" for education should not bitch when the red tape that comes along with it starts tangling up the system.

$49,000/yr to start. 3 months vacation. 6hr day. My heart goes out to the teachers.

I think the teachers, police officers and the military should give at least 70% of their pay to important corporate CEO's such as Haliburton just for having the privilege of living in this country and sacrificing so these important CEO's can make $50,000 an hour!!!

Chicago teachers not happy with the proposed contract ? What a frigging joke.

Maybe the Chicago teachers will NOT BE HAPPY when they find out the contract has a hidden agenda item whereas they have to abide by a STRICT menu based upon Mrs. Obama's garden. By the looks in the picture, they need a diet.

If the Chicago teachers ARE NOT HAPPY, then they should be FIRED and replaced. Once that happens, they can go to the end of the unemployment line and then take a survey and see how happy they really are.

They're not happy with the agreement would like it to be a lot better for us than it is," Union President Karen Lewis said in a news briefing Sunday evening,

Hmmmm, lemme see.

Does anyone see anything about what is a lot better for the students?

Chicago Public Schools would hire more than 600 teachers specialized in art, music, physical education and foreign languages, among other teacher specialties.

These are the 2011 Chicago Public Schools 11th Graders Meeting College Readiness Benchmarks:

21% in Reading

19% in Math

11% in Science

38% in English

I can see where those "special" teachers will help these poor childrens Benchmarks improve.

And we expect these children to succeed in college with these results? We spend more for education than any other nation except Switzerland.

Yep, let's just throw more good money after bad, I'm sure these students will magically improve their own college readiness scores.

Time to privatize our education system.

This isn't bad, it's criminal!

The Unions do not have a Place in Education, Unions make Mafia members out of Teachers, They are Untouchable no matter how Bad they are to their Students.

Base Pay raises on Performance of the Students. And not by Testing Teachers. If grades improve in the school

they get a Raise if the Grades go down they take a Pay Cut.

I am still Paying after 19 years and 25 Years for my Daughters Private School. I Pay 2 X's. I am Lucky my Kids never went to Public School. I know of a few good ones and they should get a raise.

Count, 6 hours in the classroom and many more hours not only in the school, but at home grading papers and planning. Do YOU spend many hours after you get home from work preparing for your job in the next day? I highly doubt it, unless you are a business owner or a teacher, but then you can't be a teacher because you would know about the many hours in the evenings.

They fight for their students? What a joke! They want their text books early and they want a 30% raise? How about we take the raise money and put it towards text books?

When they decided to go on strike so they didn't have to face evaluations, that showed that they don't care about students. They just want to put in their time like most Union workers and they don't want to have to perform. The Unions and their Democratic backers are killing education in this country. We spend more money per student than almost any other nation, yet our test scores continue to slide. The whole idea of tenure is crazy. Teachers need to be held acountable just like most everyone not belonging to a union.

What is really sad is that the union representative basically said that they wanted factors such as poverty to be taken into account. What poor kids don't deserve good teachers? Isn't this the what Democrats always complain about when talking about Republicans, that they don't care about the poor? It sounds to me that the Chicago teachers and their supporters don't care about poor students. The best way out of poverty is a good education. Maybe the ultra-conservatives have a point. The Democrats want to keep the people in poverty so they have a large voting block they can count on.

jdmb03

PAY: The teachers union wants a three-year contract that guarantees a 3-percent increase the first year and 2-percent increases for the second and third years. The contract also includes the possibility of being extended a fourth year with a 3-percent raise. A first-year teacher earns about $49,000, according to the National Council on Teacher Quality; the highest-paid teacher earns $92,227.

Actually, Chicago teachers are the highest paid teacher making close to 80 k a year. This needs to end. The quality of teachers in the Chicago's schools is very low. It's a real shame that money takes president over the quality of teachers and teaching the kids of America.

Fire these azzholes and bring in a decent and more respectable group of teachers that can teach for a reasonable salary. If you are being paid close to 80k a year as a teacher in Chicago, then you need to be a qualified teacher that knows how to tech and turn out progress thru your students achievements and grades.

Will the Chicago teachers strike have national consequences? | The ...

news.yahoo.com/.../chicago-teacher-strike-national-consequences-...

2 days ago – From the blog The Lookout: On Thursday, the Chicago Teachers Union ... Union, Chicago leaders close to a deal: Report The Lookout - 13 hrs ago .... They have 157 teachers and over 80 are currently making $100K or more.

49,000 dollars for a 1st year teacher!....r u kidding?....fire em all hire new ones.

rednawt3

Count, 6 hours in the classroom and many more hours not only in the school, but at home grading papers and planning. Do YOU spend many hours after you get home from work preparing for your job in the next day? I highly doubt it, unless you are a business owner or a teacher, but then you can't be a teacher because you would know about the many hours in the evenings.

Cry me a river. I don't get 3 months off in the summer.

Try to keep up Spanky.

Rednawt3: Your Welcome,

and I will not know how much I am going to get until after the Med board, I am being medically retired after injuries both from active duty in peacetime, but mostly because of injuries during deployment that have gotten worse over multiple deployments. So what I get is to be determined still. I have served overseas in the past including 18 months In korea where the people love american soldiers, and some of what I did I can't talk about, and some like the really good things like the orphanage my unit adopted and helped through out the year I can. I did get out of the regular army and stayed with the Guard in My state where i Have since had 2 tours in Iraq, where I did convoy's , checkpoints and time at a combat outpost, as well as humanitarian missions to schools and even a brick factory where if people like these teachers ever saw, I would hope they would quit whining about their pay and conditions.

I actually work with the recruiters now...which I did for 2 1/2 years before this last deployment, but now it is a place to work while I am being evaled and to get my medical work done while I am in a good enviroment (at home) as compared to a military base away from any family. SO I work and go to school, getting my teaching Degree, and help the kids in my family with their school work, but we are lucky and have a good school system up here. We even have one group of teachers who have been working 7 years now without a contract.....because the kids come first.

And 50K a year is pretty good when you consider many soldiers are in combat for a whole lot less...and get no where the down time or time off that those teachers get, and it is not quite so dangerous in Chicago despite what some people think. lol

Oh and I was a 13P on this trip...I am an FDC chief for an Artillery platoon, though my last mission I did convoy security and other force security missions outside the wire. My first active duty assignment I was a helicopter crew chief, so I have lots of job experience in the military.

They are nothing but a bunch of glorified baby sitters , with the product they are turning out they should be making 8 dollars an hour, the last couple of generations taught nothing but political correctness, thats why we have who we have in the white house , and the college kids are no better, they are the educated idiotic socialist of the future, this country is on a slippery slope of no return.

The union leadership is stabbing their own members in the back as usual. I hope the teachers don't let them cave into that thug and former investment banker, Rahm Emanual.

Without final contract, Chicago Teachers Union pushes for end to strike

By Joseph Kishore

15 September 2012

….The Chicago Teachers Union (CTU) is pushing for a rapid end to the strike of 26,000 teachers along lines dictated by Chicago Mayor Rahm Emanuel. Even though a contract has not yet been finalized, the CTU has indicated it is hoping to send teachers back to work on Monday.

The union is seeking to end the strike even though the teachers have won widespread support from workers in Chicago and throughout the country. A rally planned for Saturday is expected to attract tens of thousands of people, with buses arriving from other states.

The CTU is worried that a prolonged strike will escape its control and develop into a broader struggle against the Obama administration, which fully backs the attack on teachers being carried out by Emanuel. The union is prepared to sacrifice the basic interests of its members to maintain its political alliance with the Democratic Party…

…In other words, the CTU has agreed to massive concessions but does not want to reveal them without carefully packaging them together with supposed "victories." If the union capitulation is not properly sugar-coated, the delegates might vote to continue the strike—something the union is determined to avoid at all costs.

For his part, Mayor Emanuel showed less circumspection. He praised the deal, saying the "tentative framework is an honest and principled compromise" that "preserves more time for learning in the classroom, provides more support for teachers to excel at their craft, and gives principals the latitude and responsibility to build an environment in which our children can succeed."

Providing "more time for learning in the classroom" is a reference to the lengthening of the school day without compensation to the teachers; providing "support for teachers to excel at their craft" is a euphemism for a standardized test-based evaluation system; more "latitude" for principals means gutting recall rights for laid off teachers…

…From day one of the strike, Emanuel made clear his determination to force through measures that undermine teachers' job security. This is part of an overall strategy of dismantling the public education system.

The Emanuel administration has plans to shut down up to 120 public schools over the next five years, laying off thousands of teachers in the process. It is withholding details of these plans until after the strike is ended, with the understanding that there will be massive opposition among teachers. Emanuel is also planning to vastly expand the network of for-profit charter schools.

The mayor's demands are supported by the mass media and both the Democrats and Republicans at the national level—with Republican vice presidential candidate Paul Ryan declaring that education "reform" is a "bipartisan issue." Emanuel is carrying out in Chicago what the Obama administration is implementing at the national level.

The CTU has already signed on to these plans, with Lewis saying that it is only a matter of implementing them in a "reasonable way."

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2012/sep2012/teac-s15.shtml

If the Governor of Illinois wasn't a liberal democratic union shill, he would make a move to end this strike and get control out of the union greed.

Scott Walker is suddenly looking like a genius.

So I see all these people saying that teachers make TOO much money. Can someone here tell me how much should a teacher make in Chicago? Wait, before you answer that question answer the following questions first.

What is the median wage in your town? What is the median wage of teachers in your town?

What is the median wage of Chicago? What is the ACTUAL median wage of a teacher in Chicago?

Now the most important question, who is more important to the FUTURE of our country, a teacher or a stock broker on Wall street? Who gets paid more?

Lastly, why all the hatred for unions? Most of the people on here personally negotiated your pay. You got hired. The company you work for said you are going to get this pay, you said yes or no. The company said you get these benefits. You said yes or no. The company said you get these days of and work these hours. You said yes or no. Basically, you had NO options but to work or not to work.

Now you complain about teachers, or any union, who choose to bargain for their pay, benefits, work hours and work CONDITIONS. (Sorry, but no AC in a school room is criminal in my mind. Not only for the teacher, but for the students.) So, to answer my own question, Jealousy! That is why you hate unions. The Unions are not the problem, YOU are the problem!

I feel the teachers need to fulfill their existing contract. As the Mayor stated the Children should not be used as pawns. The union could attempt to get contract changes while the teachers were working teaching at schools. If no agreement could be reached then 100,000 plus teachers could find jobs elsewhere if that is their desire.

Frank the Unions are the problem....they were not always the problem they were once a good thing, but they have outlived their time and it is now the right moment to turn off life suppport.

I have no problem with a teacher being paid a fair and decent wage, but I do expect that teacher to work for and earn that wage. Chicago is the highest paid teachers in the country but also the shortest school day for any city and they have the lowest success rate for the country as well, sounds like something is wrong in this equation. If any one else in so imoportant of a job, and yes teaching our kids is important did so bad they would lose their job. If people make parts for aircraft, or even sub standard food they are going to lose their jobs. yet these teachers who are doing a sub par job not only want a pay raise but no evaluation as to their quality of work. I am sorry for all the good teachers who are mixed in with the bad ones in chicago but sounds like everything is broke and needs to be fixed and patching the broken sysytem already in place is not going to do it, maybe chicago schools needs to start all over again with new teachers.

Frank, there probably wouldn't be so many complaints if the members of the CTU actually produced decent results. The problem is these teachers are failing to adequately do their jobs, already are some of the highest paid in the nation and want more. If they worked in the private sector they be in the unemployment line.

I can't think of even one profession that requires and puts up with all this B.S. placed upon the teaching profession. Teachers pay for their own supplies, re-certification, etc.,, while businesses pay for their employees training, testing, getting an hour for lunch, etc., etc. If they want to have more hours of schooling, then they need to count in all the time spent for conferences, prepping, grading papers, faculty meetings, tutoring, etc., etc. And that folks puts them well past the 8 hours of work time. Many teachers don't even get a 20 min. lunch break anymore, much less a potty break. The public and city officials want the unreasonable, unrealistic, unlimited max output from the teachers on a nickel's pay with ridiculously, limited budget allowances for supplies, books, etc. while the supply warehouses charges well over a $100 for an elementary school text book. Seems to me that they should be investigating that source of greediness in the educational arena. Maybe then they would have the money to provide for the teachers' resources. When was the last time a doctor, attorney, policeman, Wall Street Bankster, etc. get evaluated on a yearly basis for jobs skills (as related to their customers) such as they promote for the teachers? I'd be willing to bet that we would lose half of our medical doctors for their extreme competencies that are often fatal. I'd say that is discriminatory against teachers and possibly chauvinistic, since most teachers are made up of female staff. Teachers need to tell all parents, public, and city buckrats to "Go fly a kite and do the teaching themselves on their own time!" Maybe then they'd have an idea of all bull that teachers have to put up with coming from all directions. Looks like Rham Emanuel has turned into a typical flaming Republican with no realistic understanding of the educational problems. And yes, every profession has their unprofessional personnel with the vast majority existing among politicians, Congress (place this group at the head of the list), city and state officials.

@FrankG912

What is the median wage of Chicago? What is the ACTUAL median wage of a teacher in Chicago?

What is the median wage for someone who lives in Chicago and works 8 hours a day 12 months a year?

The average wage for someone in Chicago is 46k. The average teacher wage is 74k. Hourly average assuming a 40 hour work week for the non-teacher-is $22/hour, teacher hourly rate for 6 hours a day 9 months a year-$69/hour.

So what point were you trying to make?

Now the most important question, who is more important to the FUTURE of our country, a teacher or a stock broker on Wall street?

Ummmm, with 50% graduation rate even a @!$%#ing moron could see the the stock broker is a hell of a lot more important to the future of our country than are the teachers in Chicago. Unless of course you fear there will be a debilitating shortage of McDonald's employees in the near future because half their students aren't going to be good for much else.

Post 1.48 has 2 corrections

I'd be willing to bet that we would lose half of our medical doctors for their extreme incompetency’s that are often fatal.

And yes, every profession has their unprofessional personnel with the vast majority existing among politicians, Congress (place this group at the head of the list), city, state officials, and let’s not forget most C.E.O.s.

An Indie Thinker: Nobody would want to replace them if they actually preformed their jobs up to standards, and the uneducated kids of chicago are proof they are not fulfilling their job. And I was tested every year for one of my jobs in the military for proficiency and to keep that same job, if I failed I could have been either reclassified or kicked out of the military. But guess what I did not always receive a raise even if I did pass the test. And twice this last deployment I actually continued working in a combat zone despite not getting paid b/c our Congress could not get along to pass a budget. And despite this I am still working on a teaching degree so that when I leave the military I can be a teacher at the High School level. But I still feel these teachers need to be fired for not preforming their jobs to standard. And I do hold school systems responsible for lack of materials for the class rooms and many other shortcomings, but unlike you I do not blame just the republicans or the Democrats I blame all politicians of every stripe who can't get past party lines and do what is best for the people.

To Quote George Washington " Beware both foreign entanglements and Political Parties".

Teachers are no different than any other profession, or job. Just because someone wants the pay, or benefits, or excellent retirements, doesn't mean they are qualified to do the job. That exists everywhere.

Perhaps Chicago should look into year round schools. It may solve some of the critical issues that seem to be plaguing them. It might be a win win situation for both teachers and students. Nothing else seems to be working.

http://www.cde.ca.gov/ls/fa/yr/guide.asp

FrankG...

Should the median wage be comparable to the breadwinner's median income of the students?

If that's the case shouldn't the teachers be in the 30K range?

I'm not faulting the Unions because they're within their rights to negotiate based on previous deals with their respective local government.

But you do make a point that pay should be comparable, forget teacher evaluations, we can base pay on students-parent median income. Teachers will embrace the community then. If not then in that case, pay cut and get back to work.

I don't care if a Democrat or a Republican calls for this law... More money spent on education than on defense, I will support them.

They want a happy ending too?

Sooner or later those teachers are going to run out of mushrooms just wait them out. and in the long run things will be better. its normal when you back a rat into a corner they will fight, these rats need to go. that school system is a shamble, don't give them anything in fact take some back. they are predators on the backs of the tax payers. get rid of them, they can be replaced. nothing but leaches, give them the ultimatum to go back to work or find a new gig. fat lazy people they aren't suffering, its obvious they eat better then the people that pay them. they make North Korea's Kim look like a model for a health clinic. if they weren't so damn fat I would think different but look at them they are out of control, they just want to be fed. and its time to stop wasting on them. 50% failure rate and they want more money? now look at those pictures again. what do you see.

@backcountry - with 50% graduation rate even a @!$%#ing moron could see the the stock broker is a hell of a lot more important to the future of our country than are the teachers in Chicago.

Another example of a short cited individual. You didn't answer the question you just deflected to another talking point. So, since you are an education expert please tell me why you are not a teacher? Is it Pay? Is it you didn't get enough schooling? Is it that you didn't want to lower yourself to teach inner city kids? What is it? You sit here on a computer throwing bombs about them making too much for only working 9 months out of the year, but you don't provide any detail on how you should fix it and how much you should pay people.

And to your $69/hr is misleading. Do you count grading papers at night? Do you count having to buy your own supplies? I could go on, but what's the point. You believe its all the teachers and no one will change your mind. Unfortunately, Parents matter, having a balanced meal before school matters, having AC in your class room matters, and having books before class starts matters. Did you count that in your calculations?

IMO, teachers should be paid more. Schools should be as large as Cathedrals and have the same state of the art amenities. When someone graduates from Harvard or Stanford, schools should be competing for the best and brightest from these schools to be teachers. They should not be going to Wall street because YOU and everyone else who is against these teachers think they are over paid. If you paid them more, maybe you would get better teachers. With better teachers would come MORE oversight to get rid of the under-performing ones. You, being short cited, are only worried about getting rid of these teachers and not with whom you are going to replace them with. You don't seem to be standing up to join them.

Oh please. Teachers aren't the only ones who go home and continue to work. I'm a research scientist and there is always work at home-grant writing, reading papers, writing papers, etc. Ask anyone in the sciences and see if they have never done any work at home or on the weekend.

Many people do work at home, not just teachers. I would bet that anyone with a professional degree of some sort is going to be working at home. Grading and lesson planning doesn't take that long, especially after you have taught a class already.

And by the way, I have a PhD in microbiology and I make less than the average salary of the teachers. I buy a lot of my own office supplies, too, including kleenex. I haven't had a summer off since I was 13 and I paid for my advanced education and continue to pay for additional training classes.

Even with more and better teachers and even more and better pay as you ask for Frank you still will not be able to get rid of the bad teachers because they are protected by the Union. So where are you going to get these new teachers jobs? since the bad teachers will already have jobs and not need to worry about losing them?

Perfect example of why big unions are bad. Why couldn't they work this out during the summer break? Oh no, then they couldn't hold the student's education hostage in order to get what they want. What they're doing SHOULD be illegal. They use the excuse that they want to improve how they teach their students.....and yet go on a strike during the school year. A teacher who cared about her students would not do this. What about the parents that can't afford daycare and are currently either spending money they don't have for daycare or aren't going to work in order to be able to take care of their child during all of this? This is why my child will ALWAYS go to a private school. The public school system in Chicago is GARBAGE.

My comment to those who have ragged on the teachers is, go volunteer at a school for a day, then bitch, most of you would not make it to lunch. See what it is really like. Then talk about $49,000 a year for new teachers. Like teaching is some kind of goldmine. And too all of you union haters, the union of aerospace workers landed Americans on the Moon, no other country has been able to accomplish this. But the real question is where do Rahm's kids go to school or maybe the kids of the school board members, where to they go? Below is a piece written by George Carlin about why education in this country always takes a back seat.

George Carlin(May 12, 1937 - June 22, 2008) "The American Dream"

There's a reason why education sucks and its the same reason it will never ever ever be fixed. Its never gonna get any better, don't look for it, be happy with what you got. Because the OWNERS of this country don.t want that. I'm talking about the real owners now. the REAL owners. The big wealthy business interests that control things and make all the important decisions. Forget the politicians. The politicians are put there to give you the idea that you have freedom of choice. You don't. You have no choice. You have owners. They OWN you. They own everything. They own all the important land, they own and control the corporations they've long since bought and paid for
the Senate the Congress the State Houses the City Halls they got the judges in their back pockets and they own all the big media companies so they control just about all the news and information you get to hear. THEY GOT YOU BY THE BALLS! They spend BILLIONS of dollars every year lobbying, lobbying to get what they want. Well we KNOW what they want. They want more for themselves and less for everybody else. But I'll tell you what they DONT want. They dont want a population of citizens capable of critical thinking. They dont want well informed, well educated people capable of critical thinking. Theyre not interested in that. That doesnt help them. Thats against their interests. They dont want people who are smart enough to sit around the kitchen table and figure out how badly theyre getting f***ed by a system that threw them overboard thirty f***ing years ago, they dont want that. You know what they want? They want obedient workers. Obedient workers. People who are just smart enough to run the machines and do the paperwork, and just dumb enough to passively accept all these increasingly sh***ier jobs with the lower pay, the longer hours, the reduced benefits, the end of overtime, and the vanishing pension that disappears the minute you go to collect it. And NOW theyre comin' for your social security money. They want your f***ing retirement money. They want it back so they can give it to their criminal friends on Wall Street. And you know something? They'll get it! Theyll get it all from you sooner or later because they OWN this f***ing place. Its a big club... and YOU AINT IN IT. You and I are not in the big club. By the way, its the same big club they use to beat you over the head all
day long when they tell you what to believe. All day long beating you over the head in their media telling you what to believe what to think and what to buy. The table is tilted, folks. The game is rigged. And nobody seems to notice.. nobody seems to care... Good honest hard-working people. White-collar, blue- collar, it doesnt matter what color shirt you have on, good honest hard-working people continue - these people of modest means - continue to elect these rich c**k suckers who dont give a F*** about them. They dont give a F*** about you, they dont GIVE a F*** about you. They dont CARE about you. At ALL, at ALL, at ALL! Man...You know? And nobody seems to notice, nobody seems to care... Thats what the owners count on - the fact that Americans will probably remain willfully ignorant of the big red white and blue d**k thats being jammed up their a**holes everyday because the owners of this country know the truth... Its called the American Dream, because you have to be asleep to believe it.

This union has proven the Chicago labor movement is neither dormant nor dead," Lewis said in a statement on the union’s blog late on Saturday. "We have solidified our political power and captured the imagination of the nation."

So now our children's education is a damn "political" issue for these asinine idiots. I had actual TEACHERS when I was in school. Why the hell did these people choose teaching as their vocation (cause it damn sure isn't to better society by teaching children an education in math, reading, science, etc)? Every damn one of these teachers should be fired! It's my understanding that Chicago teachers are the second highest paid teachers in the nation. When our economy is in the shape it is in...many (some with degrees) have had to take cuts/freezes in pay/benefits, are having to work 2-3 part time jobs to get full time hours, or have been unable to find a job at all and have lost everything, it is selfish for them to demand more. Most of these teachers don't work the full year round or full days (if they teach summer school, they get paid extra to do so). Also, they should be treated like everyone else, and that means they should receive regular evaluations of their job performance. I'm sick and tired of hearing about teachers who pull crap that anyone else would immediately be terminated for, but they get to keep their job because they belong to a damn union. Furthermore, contrary to popular opinion, I want the teachers to set a good example for their students, but I don't want teachers teaching my children what their own personal beliefs should be. That's my job and my right as a parent! Fire these people and hire some teachers that will actually be grateful to have a damn job and be willing to put the STUDENTS first (like a true teacher is supposed to do)! How is this strike benefiting the STUDENTS?

Inkeeper (Post # 1.5)

We are well aware of the military requirements, since my spouse is a retiree of almost 25 years as an officer. The same goes for the teaching experience at higher levels of institutions. And, NO, definitely not all the incompetent military staff are replaced or put out of service depending on who they know, or have for their connection up the ladder of politics. So don't even go there with those excuses! As I said in my previous statement, all professions have their incompetent workers at various levels. I'd be very willing to wager that there are fewer incompetent teachers as compared to doctors, politicians, and attorneys I'll be among the first to say that the enlisted staff pay is disgracefully low for what they do and perform. Far too many of them do an outstanding job for so little pay and often times the proper respect.

Backcountry164 (Post # 1.49)

To quote you"

"even a @!$%#ing moron could see the the stock broker is a hell of a lot more important to the future of our country than are the teachers in Chicago. Unless of course you fear there will be a debilitating shortage of McDonald's employees in the near future"

Oh, do tell Mr. Backwoodsman, what is your source of your invalid stat information?? Do you write the teacher's paychecks checks? Did you even read this article about the average teacher wages in Chicago? Try reading it again for more accuracy before spouting out with such invalid information. No, Chicago teachers DO NOT WORK 6 HOURS A DAY, and NO, THEY DO NOT WORK 9 MONTHS A YEAR. The students are in school for 9 months a year; but the teachers are required by law to be there well before school starts at the beginning of the school year and each day as well. The same goes for after the students leave school. Teachers must put in the minimum of 8 (and NOT THE 6 AS YOU SO NAIVELY STATE) specified hours daily (not including prep time, or duties before and after school ). Therefore, Mr. KNOW IT ALL Stock Broker, if you are able to count the months up, that counts for 10 months for the year. The other 2 months are required for a specified college courses on rectification every 5 years while gathering up more supplies, reviewing and planning the distribution of next year's classes, summer school teaching, etc., etc. There isn't any real time for even a short vacation which most higher levels get at least 3 to 4 weeks worth of paid vacation time. So don't even go there with your B.S. stats, esp. for someone, who touts the value or worth of stock brokers on Wall Street/Finance Street, which represents the profession with biggest corruption and the greediest crooks responsible for the Great Recession. And just how and where do you think those greedy stock holders got their education from, if not for teachers? You quite obviously didn't learn it on your own. How did you get your driver's license, etc., etc.? Believe me, you have an over inflated ego of the stock brokers to include yourself (if even in that category, which I seriously doubt considering your inept comments).

"We have solidified our political power and captured the imagination of the nation. No one will ever look upon a teacher and think of him or her as a passive, person to be bullied and walked on ever again."

HAHAHAHHA. Ohhh, man. What a laugh. These teachers have no idea how "highly" the rest of the nation thinks of them. They just made every union in the U.S. look bad. Which of course doesn't bother me one bit. Let the unions show their true colors.

It is funny to listen to everyone complain about the Unions and the Teachers. Especially from people who have no clue as to what they are talking about. If you have been paying attention you would have known that the funding for schools have been drastically reduced to the point that the schools can no longer provide the quality education that children need. They are forced to get rid of extra curricular classes such as music, arts, after school sports, etc etc. Teachers have to spend their own money to provide supplies for the classes in order to teach. Class sizes have doubled since I went to school. That means that quality time per student is cut in half. Schools are being shut down all across America and kids are being bussed to other schools. On top of all this you expect your child to be educated the same as you if not better. I would consider if I were you guys to step away from the bong for awhile, because that pipe dream you got going is one hell of an illusion. As far as a part time job, you are incorrect. Teachers have to prepare for classes, sometimes 2 to 3 hours a day. Not to mention the time they need to grade papers they assign to the students. Then during the Summer time a good majority are going back to school themselves to become better teachers and keep up with today's curricula. Then to complain about how much they make a year for babysitting your children and educating them compared to how much you are willing to pay a football player to play a kids game on live TV is laughable to say the least.

I guess in the end I can not take any of these comments before mine seriously. Maybe if we pass a few Levy's to increase education and funding for schools, stop closing them down, and hire more teachers instead of laying them off and doubling up on others, then we might be able to teach and babysit your children for you so you can do whatever it is you do while ignoring them.

Inkeeper (P0st # 1.59)

To quote you:

"Even with more and better teachers and even more and better pay as you ask for Frank you still will not be able to get rid of the bad teachers because they are protected by the Union. So where are you going to get these new teachers jobs? since the bad teachers will already have jobs and not need to worry about losing them?"

The success or lack of success with the teacher's ability to teach in school is not because of the Unions. They don't have a Union in all the States. Yet, still the national outcome results are the same. But here is an important factor that many adults do not even consider. The success of a teacher, or the teacher's influence in school often hinges on what happens at home along with the willingness to carry out the requirements with the proper guidance. Take a close look at how many parents are not at home to see that the students carry out a teacher's study requirements, and some don't even have the ability to assist the child with a homework problem. Too many parents are away from the home working multiple poor wage paying jobs to keep the family going. Thus, the children are the adults making important decisions. Too many adults are too quick to point the finger at education while not take a closer look at their home environment with too many TV's, texting, loud music, or always hearing the blame placed on the teachers for their child's' educational short comings. Too many parents do not instill the importance of learning or getting the best possible education. A poor teacher will not keep a curious student from learning. The curiosity starts at home first. If skills are to be learned, then so must they be practiced till perfected. This can not all be accomplished at school alone. Far too many parents don't even want to be bothered with the homework, or seeing that it is accomplished correctly with some proficiency. Instead the children are left with the modern technologies with the greatest distraction. Finally, on the unfortunate side, too many children are born into this world with drug addicted and alcohol addicted parents, who are not capable of being a role model adult.

rednawt3, your response was one of the more intelligent post. Too bad so many people shot it down. What a bunch of fools. Everyone thinks the unions are to blame for the problems of the public school systems. Try to deal with the all that bureaucracy...how many layers of administration do they have? I don't think their pay is out of line at all. It's got to be expensive to live in Chicago.

On a final note. All of you haters out there. Take a good look in the mirror. Look at your expanding waistline. Do you really believe that you work that hard?

Brenda, if those things are so important to the teachers then why are they not fighting for those things. No, what the teachers are fighting for is

1) a pay raise

2) Job protection, no matter how bad they teach

3) Easier evaluations so they all look good

hmm, those don't seem at all like the things you listed. Who is the one not paying attention?

You are. The article did not list all the items they are fighting for. If you go to their union web page, it shows most of what they are trying to change. You simply read the highlights from an article designed to make them look bad. As far as pay i agree, they need a raise. In the economy of today, I agree with job protection. That protects the good teachers as well. As far as evaluations, they don't want easier ones, again you did not read, they want to be evaluated on their skills, not on what scores the kids get. There are too many factors involved in kids getting poor grades, only one being a poor teacher. Seems like you have something against teachers, not sure what it is, but it's definitely your issue.

Let's take another look at the education problem. There are some States that started the lotteries on the basis that the money would go to education, schools improvements, and scholarships in the respective States. However, in FL alone after a few years, the money was rerouted for other so called political endeavors considered of far more importance to the State politicians. Then, the State due too much excessive spending causing short falls in the budget, turns around and blames the teachers Unions, etc. But where did all that lottery money go (not all to the schools as originally stated--kind of like the two Wars paid from the SS Funds)? So guess what Dept. has funds cut off first? Your right! the schools, the resources, the extra curricular activities, and the teachers, who see the first cut back because of the States lavish/wasteful life-style spending at the Capital and local levels. Money was being held back from the schools to expand a political party's agenda of suppressing voter fraud where only ONE VOTE was found to be invalid, while almost another 3000 were accidentally removed from the voters registration until a Judge told FL that the action was unconstitutional. But the Capital had plenty of money to entice corporations to visit their State with various promised perks, very costly tax exemptions, dinners, parties, etc., etc., etc. A FL toll road organization spent $50k plus of the tax payers money for a relative of the boss on a birthday party. Then, they immediately turned around and raised the toll road fees. But everyone says: "It's all the teachers' union's fault for not having enough money to cover the educational expenses." They must improve while the corruption remains. The Directors of Education in FL did not take a pay cut; but the city officials and Directors did receive pay raises. Some FL city officials are still double and triple dipping with their own retirement funds. After firing all their city employees, and then rehiring them for lower pay with no paid health benefits, etc. (as they were adding onto their own benefits package). The Governor could care less. Their corruption triples all the way down to the individual schools, students, and teachers, whom they place at the bottom of their totem pole in spite of their so called expressed concerns with the quality for education for which they have no idea of what is really happening in their own world of waste with corruption. In all the States there are some politicians and some corporate elite, who bleed from the public with what is left at the bottom of the totem pole to take more for themselves. Do they really deserve the benefits, or are they more important than others in a time of Recession when others are doing with so little? The City officials in ORL voted not to feed the homeless (mostly comprised of Veterans and small children next) except for 2 days of the week for a very limited specified period of time (in a more remote area near the edge of town without public transportation) on those 2 days. Yet, not even one penny from the State or city was being used to feed the homeless. All the cost was done with the generosity of a volunteer organization (who were arrested for not complying with the new feeding ordinance law). And why did the city do this? Because the elite living in Winter Park complained vehemently, and the ORL City Officials felt that the homeless were denigrating their environment and ruining it for the tourists. The FL State income comes from the tourist population visiting from around the world which is is a very generous income. Yet the State with it's lottery and tourists income has limited funds for the schools, etc. Oh yes, they do have their greedy priorities. All levels of our society need to share some of the blame for public school education. The school bus transportation is one of the biggest waste of public funds. The parents need to be providing the transportation, and then provide bus transportation where poverty exists. The amount of time spent on a bus, the driver's salaries, and the costs along with the maintenance of school buses are tremendous drain on the educational funds. This is where the parents could help with car pooling rather than complaining about how bad the schools are. The Govt. doe not owe individuals everything in life.The money saved from bus transportation could be used for school curriculum, activities, teacher's aid salaries, etc., etc.

Hmmm...standardized test scores...I think we can agree that those things (SAT, ACT) have a lot to do with determining who goes to a University, College or Jr. College....and that the CPA exam, the Bar exam, are all standardized tests for admission to their profession (to name just a few).

So seeing that so much of a child's future will be based on how they do on a standardized test, tell me again why teachers should not be evaluated on how well their students do on a standardized test...when the future of the student themselves will be, to a large extent, determined by those same type of tests!

All of us would like to have our job performance judged on a flexible scale...a scale which minimizes failure and maximizes reward for a wide range of results....but only teachers unions have put that into practice!

Wow, I am surprised I have to explain something so simple. Each child has a different personality due to their own experiences through life. These personalities can make it harder to teach or next to impossible in some cases. Some kids just simply think school is a waste of time and in some cases skip classes on a regular basis. How do you teach a student that can care a less about what you are saying or doesn't even show up to be taught? Then they show up on test days and fail the tests. So how can you judge me as a teacher based on a child or children that do not want to learn and are only there because they are forced to be there? What if I am in a class where all my students want to be there and learn? Then I would get rave reviews on my evaluation. If I am teaching a class on the, lets say, bad part of town where most of my students are under one form or another of drug, then my evaluation would be poor. If I am in a rich neighborhood where they can afford top dollar facilities, it would be easier to teach. If I am in a poor neighborhood the opposite would be true. So how can you evaluate based on a child's ability to learn? There are other factors such as IQ and how much sleep the child gets at home or what they have to eat or lack of. Just surprised that I have to spell it out for you. Should be basic logic.

Rahm owes an apology to Governor Walker. These large unions are destroying our country.

By the way, large unions are huge donors to the Obama campaign.

I'm sorry get rid of tenure. However, at least they work for their pay. Remember people, members of the house, senate, and others, even if they only serve one term, have a salary for LIFE. If you want to know what is sucking this nation dry, look at some of that crap. I'm not a fan of any way, but I assure you, our soldiers do not get the same treatment. What an absolute joke.

Get rid of tenure...simple.

An Indie thinker (post 1.66) I don't disagree about the need for more parental involvement at home and with the schools. I spent the years helping my son who is a senior now, and I also help out with all my neices and nephews, as well as being the Volunteer helping my neices preschool class this year. I have a flexable enough schedule because I am in the MEB process for the Army and work gives me the leeway for this since I work in Recruitment while I get medical work done and I go to College.....to be a Teac her. But I still stand behind my statement that The Teachers Unions have become as big a part of the problem as the parents who do not care. There are many good teachers and many parents who help, but the unfortunate truth is the teachers who are not good or who are not teaching up to par and should be fired can not be fired because of union protection. Even when they get poor evaluations they are kept on because of the unions.

And I have volunteered to help at schools at more places then even at home, My unit down at Ft Stewart Ga. had a program where we volunteered to go in to some of the local school and read to the kids and do other things to help out.

People need to quit denying their part in the problems of schools, Parents, Administration, School Boards, and Yes even the TEACHERS.

You are. The article did not list all the items they are fighting for. If you go to their union web page, it shows most of what they are trying to change. You simply read the highlights from an article designed to make them look bad.As far as pay i agree, they need a raise.

I cannot disagree more. They are already highly compensated for working 9 months of the year and since their salaries are paid for by tax dollars, every dollar they get in additional compensation will be taken from education budgets and will result in less money for necessary educational materials, programs like music and art and sports. We are in a huge recession and people are suffering. Demanding that they pay ever more in taxes to give already well paid teachers a 14% raise is insane.

In the economy of today, I agree with job protection. That protects the good teachers as well.

Job protection has to be balanced with pay structure. If you want increased job security then you must be willing to be aid slightly less. It's completely irresponsible to to give maximum pay with iron-clad job security. No one in the private economy gets such a deal.

As far as evaluations, they don't want easier ones, again you did not read, they want to be evaluated on their skills, not on what scores the kids get. There are too many factors involved in kids getting poor grades, only one being a poor teacher. Seems like you have something against teachers, not sure what it is, but it's definitely your issue.

Evaluating job skills is highly subjective and leads to abuse - how can you even define teaching skills? A teacher that exhibits fine teaching skills but who's kids can't function upon graduation isn't a good teacher - despite all those "skills". The reason we test the kids is because we need an objective metric to evaluate the effectiveness of the teachers. I agree it's not a perfect system and it too can be abused but there is no other objective way to evaluate teachers.

It seems like Emanuel should be citing more than "sweeping generalized legal threats" and cite the actual State Law/s that are apparently at the heart of his threat; understanding that whenever State and Federal Law conflict, at the basis, FEDERAL LAW TRUMPS! I think this seems to be very important, as to "appeals" of evaluations. "Appeal" to whom? To the Court? Under Constitutional Due Process of the Law? Anything other than that retention of [that] RIGHT is just an UNconstitutionally closed-circuit process for any Teacher, as being a Constitutionally Protected "Individual" being stripped of their RIGHT and forced to subject themselves and submit to a Panel that operates "outside of Due Process of the Law" in regard to their RIGHT and is UNconstitutional.....a.k.a.....ILLEGAL. Look at Lance Armstrong and what "WRONGLY" happened to him, in that regard. Stripped away from his RIGHT to Due Process of the Law, before ever even any talk about his doings, not-doings and ultimately PERFORMANCE. The article doesn't say. Appeal ANY Evaluation to whom? TO A COURT OF LAW or an UNconstitutional and ILLEGAL CLOSED CIRCUIT PANEL?

And, again, Teachers ARE NOT responsible and accountable for "Curing" even only 30% of Societal Ills, such as any of a Student's behavioral issue/s, learning disability or socioeconomic factor/s, ETC. I BELIEVE.

Brenda1964:

our country puts more money into their school systems than almost any other in the world and get some of the worst results.

the answer is not more money, every teacher i know spends 6 hours at school, that leaves 2 hours for grading papers etc, and has been pointed out above, there are a lot of professional that go home with work everyday so big deal if the teachers do.

also, every teacher i know takes a nice long break in the summer, oh, i know, you go on about continuing education, PLEASE! two week long classes paid for by whatever text book company wants them to start using their text book or some two week long class on how to 'stay relaxed during testing time'

teachers have guaranteed pay raises, the shortest days of any professional group, the Best Vacations, their own banks, special loans for buying houses, etc, etc.

while it is bulls**t that too many parents are not actively involved with making their children be responsible with their school work, it is also bulls**t that teachers should just Expect to get a raise (just as it's BULLS*T that our congresspeople get automatic raises, lifelong insurance, and pensions)

there are too many teachers that do a fabulous job because they care and care to take the time to figure out a teaching style that works for the age of the child they are teaching and have fantastic results no matter where they teach for me to feel sorry for the majority of the whiny baby teachers.

try being a waiter or a waitress, talk about being abused by people.

Holding teachers responsible? What can we all be thinking? Again, FIRE THEM, replace them and move on.

180 days of work, with a teacher aid etc., at 49K ............the jig is up and they don't like it. FIRE THEM ALL.

An aside, how sloppy CAN you dress???????????

Mystery Rhee,

Last year, the Illinois Educational Labor Relations Act was passed by the Democratic Illinois House and Senate, signed by the Democratic Governor that prohibits teachers from striking on all matters except compensation involving pay and benefits.

This is the law Rahm is using to force the teachers back to work.

armurray, #1.80- Thank you so much for your reply. You've got my last 10 minutes until I have to dash off for the afternoon. My premise to anything I've contributed to this subject is that Teachers, not unlike any of the rest of us, CANNOT be functionally evaluated on ANYTHING if they are not beginning from a solid footing - base - underneath them. In the United States of America, if ANY or ALL of your RIGHTS have been pulled out from under you, like the rug being pulled out from under you, (and that's because "the rug" is being used off-to-the-side to cover-up ALOT that's been swept under it), it is IMPOSSIBLE to function as a "CITIZEN" of the United States of America, never mind Heinously entering in when you discover that having your RIGHTS, (your base from which you operate from), taken away from you is actually "forced necessity" to your very and most basic Survival and needs to just that very survival! (We CANNOT even begin to try and solve, never mind even honestly look at, "THE PROBLEM/S", that exist here before or unless these very first and basic issues are solved, to then WORK FROM THERE!) There's a real ENERGY Crisis in this Country and the lack thereof Fuel, at heart and center, is PROTECTED INDIVIDUAL RIGHTS.

P.S. I never meant to allude to there not being some Democrats that could be considered real Idiots. ut, I do give them credit for more times than not at least trying to land on the side of The People.

Seriously, how is giving the teachers more money & benefits going to improve the crap they have been teaching the kids?

"No one will ever look upon a teacher and think of him or her as a passive, person to be bullied and walked on ever again."

Your damned right. Now they will look upon them as lazy, arrogant, uncaring of the children, and greedy. Good job there. Oh, and I have family in the school system (not Chicago), including my father who is a teacher. All of them are disgusted by these people.

@FrankG912

Another example of a short cited individual. You didn't answer the question you just deflected to another talking point

I always cite accurate sources. I see pretty far too. Also I answered each of your questions except the wages in my town, which I don't know exactly but the teachers here make a little less on average not 60% more. So what the @!$%# are you yammering about "deflecting"??? Let me guess, you're defending them because you're a product of their system.

IMO, teachers should be paid more. Schools should be as large as Cathedrals and have the same state of the art amenities.

And is it also your opinion that someone else should pay for all of that? Or were you volunteering to throw most of your money at cathedral like schools?

@An Independent Thinker

And yes, every profession has their unprofessional personnel with the vast majority existing among politicians, Congress (place this group at the head of the list), city, state officials, and let’s not forget most C.E.O.s.

You desperately need to look up the meaning of the word "independent" because your moniker is seriously misleading.

"I will not stand by while the children of Chicago are played as pawns in an internal dispute within a union,"

In the end, Rahm will give in to the unions because he needs them to get reelected, like all good Democrats.

It's too bad that the children come last when it comes to the union's concerns, otherwise they would teach while the negotiating continues. The average pay for a Chicago school teacher is about $75,000 per year for 9 months - an annualized rate of $100,000 per year. And they will get a pretty good raise over the next few years, while people in other professions (who pay the teachers salaries with their taxes) have had stagnant income for several years now. On top of that, the teachers get to retie at age 55 with almost full salaries for life, while those who pay their salaries (taxpayers) have to wait to age 67 to retire on Social Security payments of about 30% of their normal income.

Offhand, I'd say the taxpayers are being taken advantage of pretty badly - yet the unions keep demanding 'More, More, More, and don't you dare try to identify and fire bad teachers'.

It's too bad that the children come last when it comes to the union's concerns, otherwise they would teach while the negotiating continues.

That is, of course, one of the great myths about the teacher's union. They are not in it for the children, for education or even for the teachers. It's all about power and control.

blackdooR "I'm not faulting the Unions because they're within their rights to negotiate based on previous deals with their respective local government."

I would agree with you if there was a true 'arm's length' negotiating process, but when the unions elect the very politicians that they 'negotiate with', we have a serious 'CONFLICT OF INTEREST'.

Allowing the unions to spend vast amounts of contributions (funded by taxpayers) to elect the politicians that will give them whatever they ask is the reason for union excesses and no accountability for the union workers. What do you think a politician will do if they are told by the union "Give us what we want, or we'll elect someone else that will - and besides, it's not YOUR money - it's the taxpayers who have to pay, and they are easy to fool".

Allowing public employee unions to make political contributions creates an environment that is clearly against the public interest - even FDR realized this and forbade political contributions by public employee unions.

armurray "Last year, the Illinois Educational Labor Relations Act was passed by the Democratic Illinois House and Senate, signed by the Democratic Governor that prohibits teachers from striking on all matters except compensation involving pay and benefits...This is the law Rahm is using to force the teachers back to work."

Unfortunately, the law was too vague to enforce - for example, the union merely has to say "We're actually striking for better pay and benefits, but if the school district gives in on these other issues, we might accept lower pay increases".

JimSpence "Yep, let's just throw more good money after bad, I'm sure these students will magically improve their own college readiness scores...Time to privatize our education system...This isn't bad, it's criminal!"

I would like to see that done on a small trial basis (randomly selecting students to negate the 'they chose the best students' argument). I suspect the results would be dramatic. Actually, I think the whole education system needs to be changed - We spend huge amounts of money on education with extremely poor results.

The solution - consider this 20 minute video from Ted.com about on-line education with interactive learning techniques that shows that we could potentially have over 95% of our students performing above the 'norm', at far less expense;

http://www.ted.com/talks/daphne_koller_what_we_re_learning_from_online_education.html

An Independent Thinker

Do you really think you're fooling anyone with your 'An Independent Thinker ' moniker? - your comments are consistently from the far-left.

@ROY WILSON-336103

An Independent Thinker

Do you really think you're fooling anyone with your 'An Independent Thinker ' moniker? - your comments are consistently from the far-left.

Well he's fooled himself in all likelihood. In my experience the further left someone is the closer to the middle they believe they are.

The other problem with standardized testing is that there are groups of students who cannot preform 'proficient' on standardized tests (the crowds I'm specifically thinking of are some of the special ed. students and the ESL kids-if you have a classroom of 30 kids, none of whom speak a lick of English, they're going to do pretty poorly on standardized tests). If the students start out the year way behind, odds are they will finish up the year way behind, regardless of the teacher's performance.

At any rate, I agree that there needs to be major education reform. The current systems does not work. In the district of one of my coworker's wife, they fire all the teachers at the end of every school year, and then rehire for the next year-but after the next year has already started. So they have to begin in their classrooms without knowing for 1-2 months if they are going to be shuffled around to a different classroom mid-semester. Every student progresses to the next grade regardless of performance, so teaching is pretty much impossible (particularly in math/science courses) when the students haven't learned the basics. Your students can't even do basic arithmetic, you have to teach them algebra, so there's no hope on them performing well on standardized tests. Something needs to change.

When you ask a teacher what is a great outcome of teaching he-she will probably tell you that it would be the ability of the students to know facts and be able to apply them. If you ask a master carpenter, the same question, the answer would be that his apprentices know the safe and proper use of tools and their ability to apply knowledge in the creation of a finished product or process for which the apprentice can get remunerated!!I think that to improve public education we need to start over and think out of the box!!

@Brenda1964 Re: post 1.72: I would suggest that all teachers be required to watch the movie "Stand and Deliver" or for those who want it spelled out for them to read the book "Escalante: The Best Teacher in America".

The book and the movie highlight his achievements (most notably when in 1982, Escalante came into the national spotlight when 18 of his students passed the challenging Advanced Placement Calculus exam) while teaching at Garfield High School (1974-1991), a school with a high per-centage of minority students and its accreditation threatened (1974).

The school administration opposed Escalante frequently during his first few years. He was threatened with dismissal by an assistant principal because he was coming in too early, leaving too late, and failing to get administrative permission to raise funds to pay for his students' Advanced Placement tests. This opposition changed with arrival of a new principal, Henry Gradillas.

By 1987, 73 students passed the A.P. calculus AB exam and another 12 passed the BC version of the test. This was the peak for the calculus program. The same year Gradillas went on sabbatical to finish his doctorate with hopes that he could be reinstated as principal at Garfield or a similar school with similar programs upon his return.

Over the next few years Escalante's calculus program continued to grow but not without its own price. Tensions that surfaced when his career began at Garfield escalated. In his final years at Garfield, Escalante received threats and hate mail from various individuals, and by 1990, he had lost the math department chairmanship. At this point Escalante's math enrichment program had grown to 400+ students. His class sizes had increased to over 50 students in some cases. This was far beyond the 35 student limit set by the teachers' union, which in turn increased criticism of Escalante's work. In 1991, the number of Garfield students taking advanced placement examinations in math and other subjects jumped to 570. That same year, citing faculty politics and petty jealousies, Escalante left Garfield. Escalante found new employment at Hiram W. Johnson High School in Sacramento, California.

At the height of Escalante's At the height of Escalante's influence, Garfield graduates were entering the University of Southern California in such great numbers that they outnumbered all the other high schools in the working-class East Los Angeles region combined.^[

The math program's decline at Garfield became apparent following the departure of Escalante and other teachers associated with its inception and development. In just a few years, the number of A.P. calculus students at Garfield who passed their exams dropped by more than 80 percent. (Wikipedia).

You know what is really surprising Brenda...and terribly sad as well...is that the foregoing is a true story!

Totally agree with you, been laid off back in '10 my unemployment is up and the best I could find was maybe 4 and half weeks of work these people have jobs and should be happy

There all a bunch of selfish pigs running in a herd of red shirts. They dont care about their students or education they just want what they want and want it guaranteed no matter what job they do. That is what it is like in the private sector mediocracy and entittlement .

Seriously? Get your arses back to work and teach the children. AT LEAST YOU HAVE JOBS!

Totally agree with you, been laid off back in '10 my unemployment is up and the best I could find was maybe 4 and half weeks of work these people have jobs and should be happy

I will agree to a point. People who have only 1 full time job with benefits and can afford to live without assistance should be happy. I am happy, if that is the criteria. These teachers seem to meet that criteria and then some. I do not get a government pension. I get what I save, and the Fed keeps de-valuing that. I get no cost of living adjustments, either on my wages or my non-existent pension.

All of you who call these teachers selfish should be ashamed..Walk a mile in a teachers shoes.

". AT LEAST YOU HAVE JOBS!" . . . .Is that what this country has come to? If you have a job you have to be happy? . . . .. WTF has gotten cheaper in this country. When did the cost of living go down?

. . . . All of these comments about "unions had their place in the 30s" IDIOTS.. you want to give it all back!? We could all live like BOB @!$%#ING CRATCHET... before the ghost of Xmas future showed up!

Chicago is a huge metropolis, it is not cheap to live there. you think 65 or 70 grand a year is big money, it is, if you live Toadsuck TexArBamaSippiAna... In and around Chicago....its not bad money but it isnt great! . . . .

Once the rich are made to pay thier fair share again we can ALL get back to work.

Dont accuse the tax paying working people of this nation of fault in the economic screw job all WORKING people got. The next time you put $4 a gal. gass in your car remember that Exxon made about 190,000,000,000 PROFIT LAST YEAR!! TAX @!$%#ING FREE!!!

Then GET BACK TO WORK CRATCHET!!

let's nuke: the unions are the one helping the rich get richer and keeping the poor poor, we can't all make 25+ dollars an hour, but most things sold in america are priced for those high paid union people and the rest of the country has to work 3 jobs to make ends meet not get ahead like our union brothers. Saturn was non union and they made excellent money but got shut down as a bone to the union people for the Gov't bail out of GM, and as a thanks for the Union vote for our president.

Come backk to reality like the rest of us.

This is an example of stupidty .......This countries only HOPE is if we CHANGE obamas adress in november and crap like this will end.

What?

Union or not saturns suck.

the only stupidity is blaming the band aid for the bullet wound!

If the unions stood up for everyone it would be different but mostly they just cost everyone. if you don't belong they cost you if you belong they charge you it boils down to those union heads make Big money for doing little. they stole a bunch from me. they do that, thats who and what they are Lawyers and cons.

let's nuke: the unions are the one helping the rich get richer and keeping the poor poor, we can't all make 25+ dollars an hour, but most things sold in america are priced for those high paid union people and the rest of the country has to work 3 jobs to make ends meet not get ahead like our union brothers. Saturn was non union and they made excellent money but got shut down as a bone to the union people for the Gov't bail out of GM, and as a thanks for the Union vote for our president.

Come backk to reality like the rest of us.

That may have been true up until the 90s, but is no longer true today.

I can't seem to understand how so many people have this attitude that it has to be one way or the other. Compromising is not a bad thing.

All of these comments about "unions had their place in the 30s" IDIOTS.. you want to give it all back!? We could all live like BOB @!$%#ING CRATCHET...

That strains credulity. Many laws and agencies protect workers now. If it seems ironic that those safety considerations are a direct result of unionization, so be it. Feel the irony. And then try to accept the fact that the unions served and then out-lived their purpose.

From the pictures it does not seem that these teachers and educators are missing many meals. Maybe less vacation and more school might keep the murder down. Keep the kids in school.

The woman in the main photo looks like someone we all know - a government employee that takes an hour just to pull a file and announces to your face that she only has five minutes to go before her break.

All civil employees, from Congress down to local teachers/cops/firemen should receive the same yearly increase percentage as our SS Recipients receive.

If they don't like it, fire them and hire new ones.

boo hoo. get your a$$e$ back to work. Are they serious? They should be glad they have a job at all. With all the crime with the young folks there, maybe they need some new teachers. Theyve been in the schools teaching these killers that have come out of this school system. They should all be let go and hire some folks that would appreciate a doctor's salary like some of them are getting. Well at least nobody shot up anything yet.

One of the teacher's union's prime complaints is always "You don't know what the student's home life is like, so don't blame the teacher if the students perform poorly".

Well guess what - there have always been (and always will be) students with a bad home life, so that does not explain why test scores continue to decline, and using that as an excuse for keeping the status quo is just that - AN EXCUSE, not a solution.

If the children are indeed the 'main concern', then the teacher's unions should work WITH the schools to improve the outcomes, not fight against every effort to find and correct the problem, and everybody knows that there are some lousy teachers - even the kids know which ones they are.

I agree fire 'em all! Reagan did it to the air traffic controllers.

So many desperate outta work folks and some folks bearly making ends meet and these teachers average $76k a year...they have nothing to bitch about.

Showing that Reagan was not perfect, just human. Although the traffic controllers were striking against the people as are these 'teachers'. But Reagan's destruction of the traffic controller's union destroyed many more unions. If you are Catholic or at least you like reading things about morality and capitalism, read the two papal encyclicals, Rarum Novarum and "Forty years after" (please forgive my messing up the titles: Wikipedia or Google will find them for you) but these two encyclicals charged Catholic employers with seeing to the long term needs of their employers and their employer's families. Catholics at least are obligated (to use gutter words) not to screw their workers. Under pain of serious sin.

Short days aren't necessarily considered a benefit by most teachers. It means less time teaching, less time for students to learn, less time to plan and collaborate with other teachers. Look at the cost of living in a city like Chicago and the entry level and average pay is not out of line. The teachers in Chicago schools put up with some horrible school buildings (heating/AC broken, leaking roofs, etc) and classes of 30-40 is the norm--with students who are struggling. Further, the district can't even manage to ensure that students have textbooks until the 6th week of class???!!! Nearly a third of the way through the year until the very important standardized tests (typically given in March). There would not be enough "better teachers" who would be willing to move to Chicago and teach in these situations to fill the need.

Maybe those short days and the problems you cited are the reasons Chicago kids test so horribly low. Maybe that would be a good reason to fire all those teachers and hire new ones who will work a normal day and actually teach the kids. Just an opinion.

#1-No one outside of Chicago wants to teach there. NO ONE!

#2-After hearing what horrible teaching conditions that those teachers have to teach in
it's no wonder why they are striking.

#3-The comments about how teaching is a part time job is laughable at best. If you
really believe that teachers put in their 8 hours and then call it a day you
are missing the boat and you really shouldn't be making any comments without
the knowledge about the profession. But I guess this is your chance to vent so
go ahead and vent but in pointless. Free therapy.

#4-Your mayor sounds like a joke. His #1 goal is to break the union, he cares less
about what is best for the kids.

Oh, come on! I am a retired white teacher out of Newark NJ and I loved my students. Yes, we had our proplems but this did not come between the students and I. If those few teachers have that many proplems, then get another job. Teaching is just not a job but it is more of a passion for the kids.

I would teach in Chicago....and I do not live there....

I also hope he does break the union it would be the best thing in the world to happen to those kids maybe then they could get a proper education. While I am sure there are many good teachers there the bad ones being protected by the union are hurting the kids and the good teachers.

If those few teachers have that many proplems, then get another job. Teaching is just not a job but it is more of a passion for the kids.

First if all, teacher, I can't help but correct you. It is problems, I spell check and google words, I try to proof read my comments. I may miss a few, but I am not an education professional. That does take away from my real point but I will continue, anyway.

Those who teach tend to have degrees that are not very useful in the economy. Many people who are teachers do not set out to be teachers. When they see that their degree is not going to get them a job, they stay in school to get their teaching certificate. Some of them are lucky and they love it, and are good teachers. Many are not. In any case, the federal government needs to get out of the education business.

PJ sounds like your willing to accept sub standard teachers or at least that is what your statement hints at. The union is protecting these sub standard teachers you say are teaching only because they could not find any other job, and our kids are suffering, maybe you and all the others who are defending these union protected leeches shold instead be fighting to get them out of the schools. Just a thought.

PJ-965429,

I am sorry, I wrote more out of emotion so please excuse my one misspelled word. The truth is, I have Masters in Education and a second Master in Biology. If I wanted a higher paying carrier I could have worked for a pharmaceutical company. Many people go to school to learn a trade but it does not make them less then teachers. It is a carrier that I loved and loved my students. As a second carrier I went back to school and passed the BAR. I did not expect to fully retire but I am a third generation teacher in my Family. Now I use my law degree to help with Government Grants for other schools. For example a school in Idaho will now have a DNA Lab. So before you blast, please understand I am out for the students and only them.

PJ, can you tell me or cite an example of where the Federal government hired a teacher? So the point you were trying to make gets shouted out by a baseless comment.

First, EDUCATION in our country is not our 1st priority. Defense is. WHY? Defense is 25% of the 2012 federal budget and Education is 3%. Maybe, just maybe, if we switched the two or at least moved 5% over we would have less issues with education in our country. And maybe, just maybe, if we paid teachers what we pay CEO's or Wall street Brokers, we would be able to hire the BEST teachers instead of those who have no other options. Call me crazy, but killing unions and cutting teacher pay is not going to help improve education. It's just going to do the opposite.

Maybe everyone in the country should be able to vote themselves a raise as our politicians do? Maybe just maybe the money you want for education should come out of the pay congress gets? Most of them are already in the 1% everyone gripes about anyway. But nobody ever seems to care how much of our taxes they suck up for their own useless wasteful paychecks.

You ALL need to take A chill pill. I can't help thinking that you all are a pretty feisty bunch that are taking our kids down into substandard education for your own gain. You are going to deny that our kids do not have the best education available to them? Have you seen the statistics?

PJ, can you tell me or cite an example of where the Federal government hired a teacher?

Are you serious? Did you not understand my statement? Honestly, if you are teaching our kids, I am frightened. Please tell me where I ever said that the Federal government HIRED a teacher.

The truth is, I have Masters in Education and a second Master in Biology

followed by blah blah blah

Gooooood for you! And that makes you special because........._________.

Someone said in a post that when Reagan fired the ATC and hired non-union, he did more than break that union. He broke others as well.

GREAT IDEA. Come on Rahm, Barry, Do your Job. You SAY you are all about the children and CARE about their education.

PROVE IT.

Fire the teachers, and start over with new ones.

@d.trump

read the comment again.......(re-elected).

sharri -

He's just showing how drunk on the kool-aid he is.

Or you are just showing how stupid you are...and I am not a Mitt fan.

Liv, what is it forest says, stupid is as stupid does and you are acting forest.

Robert that is funny as @!$%#. that's a good name for the loser in chief

" If you are a good teacher you earn a good evaluation." And your facts to back this up are????? Go talk to teachers (good teachers) and you will hear plenty of cases where evaluations completely missed the mark.

So fix the evaluation system and quit protecting the actually rotten teachers with the Good ones. get rid of the unions and try running a system based on quality teachers and merit......seems to be working for charter school.....one would assume it would work for public schools.....but probably not as long as the union has it's hands on the pie.

Only 1 out 6 charter schools are successful. They do not work, take money from the public school system, then go private for profit, then fail.

I don't think we need to go private, but we do need to get the FEDERAL government out of our school systems. Face it, everything they touch is tainted. We need less FEDERAL government in our lives.

The only candidate that wants to do that is Gary Johnson. Once you realize that NO President has absolute power, and most people want the same things, Libertarian is the way to vote. I don't agree 100% with the party platform, but I do understand that they want Government out of our bedrooms and boardrooms out of our government.

No evaluation system is perfect, but you must have a system to get improvement. If your self-evaluation doesn't match what your supervisor's evaluation, at least you know you may need to go elsewhere. By the time you have two or three evaluations that you rate yourself higher, you need to go elsewhere. If you indeed were good, the supervisor will end up with a bad evaluation because of the resulting worse record, and lose their job.

And if the self evaluation is good but the teacher is not? I am pretty sure the self evaluation is definately not an option.

PJ: And a decentralized gov't is not a good thing either we tried that here in the STates once it was called the articles of Confederation, the founding fathers dropped it in favor of our present constitution because it did not work. Did your teachers not teach that in school?

Innkeeper, you are taking one instance and making it the ideal, how can I agree to that? I am not sure why you are calling me, a Yankee, out on the articles of the confederation, but I can guarantee you that the founding fathers of our country had nothing to do with the civil war. Did your teachers not teach you that in school?

PJ: And a decentralized gov't is not a good thing either we tried that here in the STates once it was called the articles of Confederation, the founding fathers dropped it in favor of our present constitution because it did not work. Did your teachers not teach that in school?

PJ: The Articles of Confederation had absolutrely nothing to do with the Confederate States of America.

After the Declaration of Independence the Founding Fathers wrote the "Articles of Confederation" these are what the Colonies now considered States operated under from basically 1776 until 1787 which basically formed a central government with little or no power but responsibilities they could not keep up with because they could not pay for. Under these articles The government had no leader ie President and ony one house in congress. So little was able to get done even after the British surrendered at Yorktown that the Founding Fathers again met, first in Annapolis but only 5 states came, and finally all 13 met again in Philidelphia, where rather then try to fix the Articles they instead wrote our Present Day constitution and set up our Present Day Government. This new government then took effect in 1789 and today struggles hard to try to do anything proper for our country.

If you do not beleive me look it up online, but I am correct....I am An Army Vetran In College finishing up My Teaching Degree with a Major in History and a Minor in English....which I definately need more work on since I still make mistakes in my writing. lol

pj-965429,

You corrected me so I am correcting you. You should not use a comma before a conjunction. I am almost over that.

How can you say our founding Fathers (Fathers should be capital) had nothing to do with the Civil War. There writings still hold power over our laws and wars today. Please do not exclude the Constitution and our Bill of Rights for your point of view.

HaileyId: if you read PJ's statement, about my telling a yankee about the articles of confederation you will understand he confused our first govenment with the Confederate States of America, which is how he got Founding Fathers and not involved in the civil war statement.

OK, I admit that I saw and thought "the articles of the confederate states". My bad. It is always best to research your topics before you comment. It was not my wisest statement, for sure. Still, it does not change my opinion one iota.

You corrected me so I am correcting you. You should not use a comma before a conjunction. I am almost over that.

Bravo, I hope it gives you peace and happiness.

PJ: more power to you for admiting the error, and for keeping your opinion as you first stated it. But The proof exists why a country so diverse and now even larger then when the experiment first failed as to why a decentralized Government will not work in the United States. The Facts don't lie no matter that we would wish otherwise.

WELL STATED AVAGUAT!!! That is exactly the case.

Not true. If you graduate from a decent education program and are willing to take the jobs you are offered, there are PLENTY of opportunities.

both of you are actually correct. i know several teachers that have turned down jobs because they are not in locations they want to be in, as in both individuals don't want to leave the city their parents live in. both have had offers from school systems (one in Alaska, on the other side of the state from where the parents lived)

but, good teachers are blocked from entering the system by state letting teachers 'retire' with their all the benefits retired teachers get, then letting them COME BACK INTO THE SYSTEM FOR NEW OPENINGS.

what kind of F**CKED up cra* is that?!! our state is already broke and they have let this type of thing happen multiple times.

Unions for public servants is bad. Unions for everyone else is good. Only plutocrats hate unions.

I am anti-union.....their day as a service to our country is long over in any way shape or form. I can say this as a former member of the UAW.....so please to not get on your soap box and tell me I have no clue what I am talking about. The unions themselves only really care about taking care of themselves and they have deluded their members into thinking they care about them kind of like politicians.

The unions also did us a big favor when they bargained for wages that priced our manufactured goods out of the marketplace. Hence, jobs 'migrated' to countries where labor was cheaper. Once that mechanism was set in place it became a landslide. And now our labor force has to compete with places where the average wage is less than half that in the US... Message to US workers: you won't be getting back your old job until the labor forces in foreign countries are at or near the same level as the workers in the US. When will that be? Let's see.... when is it predicted that hell will freeze over?

Yes Unions drove out bussiness as much as the Corporate boards did....you may see those jobs come back when the unions are gone and americans are willing to compete for fair wages while making a superior product just like we once did.

Innkeeper:

corporate greed drove out jobs, not union members expecting to be paid for helping to produce the product that is making the corporate board members even richer.

if any of you honestly believe that the 'laws' we have will protect you if your employer decides to go after your job, or over work you, not pay you etc, you are delusional, in any 'at will' state, the employer hold all the power, no matter how it's sugar coated to look like it cares about the employee.

oh, and try to collect if you are injured on the job with out a union, right, will never happen.

and lastly, if you think that the quality of products in this country is better since the jobs have started to be shipped overseas, you need to get your eyes checked.

In the civil service all is politicized. Your rating has little to do with your performance.

Greedy bastards making 76,00 average a year for 9 months work. Not bad is it!!

tell the old folks on ss, think they are getting 1.6%, not so good.

Did you read the story? 7% in increases over 3 years and the possibility of having another 3% increase in the fourth year. So a 10% increase over 4 years is not a raise?

When you make 50k to 90k a year, a 10% raise over four years is big.

dumbass

Ken, tell that to the people who won't get ANY raise this year. Too Bad on them. If they don't do the job correctly they should not get a raise.

Chicago needs it's Community Organizer back. I'll be one helping him along that route in November when I vote.

Greedy teachers I say. Saleries like that and less oversight on their performance? Ken-395581, you seem like the d.a. here. You sound like a jerk.

Soooooo not one comment that makes any logical argument about the issues at hand. If teaching is so easy, then why don't any of you do it? I'll tell you why- it sucks. You can't be, act or think like you are your own person. You can't act like an adult, have a facebook page, go to local bars or clubs or do anything that may jeapordize your job or your image to the students. Soneone is mad about travel discounts? Seriously- who gets travel discounts? And just like the comments, everyone hates you, from the kids who don't want to do the work, and the parents who just want little Tommy to get all A's with no effort. I put myself through 4 years of school because I wanted to help kids. Do you think that when all of the teachers were sitting in high school trying to figure out what to do with their futures that pentions ever came to mind?? And lets not talk about merit pay. You want me to earn based on the results of my students? Maybe in Beverly Hills--GET REAL! What insane person would agree to that knowing that inner-city Chicago youth are goiing to be the basis for your check- what kind of realistic gains will you be able to measure from a typically fatherless, broken home, no/low income/ free lunch family. Teachers who willingly work here must have the biggest set of b*lls, I know I would'tdo it. Oh, and one more thing. 45K to start? Any decent apartment in Chicago is near 2K a month. So I get 32K after tax, and have to pay 24K a year for housing. Boy what should I do with the whopping 8K a year I have left......I know- work part time doing chalk outlines with the CPDept. Teachers genuinely want to help students, thats why we work. Its people with opinions like all of yours that make it hard to continue in this line of work- I hope America can continue to produce quality students without resorting to for-profit schools with accountability so low your head will spin. Helpyour kids at home, talk to them, work with them, work with us. Education is all we have left.

Hey AgfromPitt,

Let me teach you a new word, that word is PARAGRAPH. If it is used correctly it will help make your ramblings a little more organized, coherent and readable. Paragraphs are denoted by indentations, which are simple spaces at the start of each new paragraph. Please look to my paragraph as an example for your future spewing. I can only hope that you are a gym teacher, because if not, you are surely overpaid. Then again, if you are a gym teacher, you are automatically overpaid no matter your salary.

1st of all, please learn about a thing called paragraphs

2nd, you think 45,000 a year to start is not good enough? Really?

YOU are part of the problem , imo.

While I'll concur that teaching is not for the faint of hearted, these things are KNOWN beforehand !

Oh, and btw, you say you teach, then you say "I wouldn't do it" .. hmmmm

I'd also concur what some said above, some of these schools are like a war zone....and as mentioned in other topics, IMO, many of todays problems come from the demise of the 2-parent family !

As a public servant myself, I REALLY WOULD work for free, just give me the benefits.
Over 26,000 paid by taxpayers yearly for my medical ins.,
over 6,000 EASY yearly towards my pension which I CAN COLLECT with ONLY 25 years service.(then I get to do the double dip thing).
12 paid holidays(sweet)
14 PERSONAL days(super sweet)
21 vacation days..etc etc etc.

Yeah, 45,000 to start out, is SO HORRIBLE....wow.

Ok, I start using paragraphs on a news blog no one will read. But Brian, then why no indentation when you started yours?

Overpaid, I said I wouldn't - as in teach in Chicago inner city- thanks. Also, retirement here is 62 or 35 years of service. And I call BS on you working for free- Thats just silly

I love how all of the middle class workers attack eachother. I say all the teachers quit, in fact lets all quit and fight fight for food stamps.

The people in the military who risk their lives for you and do a whole lot harder work only got 1.2% and they get paid less then teachers for a whole lot more work to begin with.

Chances are that they have a cola ( cost of living adjustment) already built into their contract so the 2% would be an increase on top of it.

I like AgfromPitt's points, they are certaintly valid. However, I do not agree with unions. This strike in Chicago is hitting on too many issues at once, so it's very hard to be black and white on the validity of this strike. The issues that are being brought to light are 1) our poor performing education system 2) our overindulged society 3) anger over entitlement 4) unions as a factor in the overall outsourcing of jobs and 5) the untrust of the government to do what's in it's citizen's best interest.

Given how many triggers this strike is pulling, I see why people are so heated. I feel like we are pointing the fingers at the wrong people. Teachers are not the problem here. Sure there's a percentage of them striking in Chicago who only care about themselves and are full of demands and excuses for poor performance. But I trust that the majority are teachers who are trying to improve the working conditions for the sake of them being able to do their jobs better and truly try to teach children. Surely teachers do not go into the profession for the sake of cush and comfort and big payout for little work. If anyone believes that then you are sadly distorted, perhaps seeking out groups to blame for being overindulged and entitled.

Teachers are not the enemy. The union may be though, if they are not looking out fo the best interest of the group they serve instead of just trying yield power. And the government is certainly the best place to point our fingers at why this is happening. State governments who mismanage funds and create ever changing standards and Federal government who plays big brother without doing the work to solve any real problems but create new layers of rules and standards.

AgfromPitt

Overpaid, I said I wouldn't - as in teach in Chicago inner city- thanks. Also, retirement here is 62 or 35 years of service. And I call BS on you working for free- Thats just silly

Well Ag, I WOULD. Reason is simple. I'm 56 now. And in the PRIVATE workforce, you might retire when you want, but you DON'T COLLECT til you're 55. Helped that I left when they still had a pension. The steel mill, like MOST private places, you're lucky to get a 401 now.

Also, unlike public workers, medical is NOT continued after employment.

So, with the public service now for almost 10 years. So yes, given the retirement I now recieve from the mill, and the MOST EXCELLENT benefits in the whole world..yes I would work wage free at this time.

In your original post you said something to the effect that a NICE apartment was 2 grand a month. I visit Chicago a lot (side business the antique shows). And having spent many weeks there, yes, SOME 'nice' ones are that much. But....well, I think you see where I'm going with that..I hope.

Realize this also, benefits, for PUBLIC workers, average 60% of their wages..so on top that 70,000 whatever avg. wage they get, is another $42,000 worth of benefits, at least. That's not *fair* in your opinion??? Really???

I get (wages alone) just over 39,000, and feel I'm HORRIBLY overpaid for what I do as a public servant !! (you'd have to know my exact job to understand).

And the last time that you spend a week in a classroom trying to teach a room full of 30 students was when exactly????

Seriously?? I can't believe anyone actually believes this. You need to spend some time in a classroom, it would be a huge wake up call. Not one thing you stated is true. If it were, 50% of teachers wouldn't quit in the first five years.

@lilouisianagal I hope you're not a teacher.

Pardon me, but your ignorance is showing.

Oh, does barron need to hire an English Teacher?

can't, the bums are on strike

You are correct. I went to a private parochial school. When I then went to public high school, every single student from my class excelled in high school. We were almost a year ahead of the public school in our text books.

Public school unions have ruined our education system.

Jim,

Perhaps if public schools weren't hamstrung by the uninterested and uninvolved masses who seek little more than breakfast and lunch, its students might keep pace with private school students--the ones quietly tucked away behind the wall of tuition. What a notion: gather a class full of students whose parents value education, put them in a classroom, give them books on the first or second day of school, and, presto, they learn.

I suggest you read the Coleman Report written 45 years ago and still the most valid study ever done on education in America.. with over 200,00 respondents it concluded that the socioeconomic level of the parent was the chief reason for success as a student. A study done two years ago replicated the results of that study after forty five years had passed. Addtionally, private schools do not take sp ed kids and may decline acceptance of many students they deem unacceptable to the school. By the way, I think the Chicago teachers are probably thw worst group I have ever viewed, but remember, they have been geting their way (as has the NEA for many years) because they support the Chicago political machine just as the NEA has not supported anyone but a dem in 75 years.

Granted, that's part of what needs to be looked at in evaluating teachers, but there are far too many cases of the teacher not doing anything to actually teach the children yet having seniority to retain the job. There are also far too many teachers and administrators who still draw a paycheck even when they have been caught taking/selling drugs, having sexual relations with students, or abusing students when that particular 'teacher' should be behind bars.

Curious, have you been evaluated as a teacher?

I once had a job where we weren't allowed to complain about something unless we also proposed a solution. So, if teachers don't want to be evaluated by how kids do on a test, they should say how they do want to be evaluated.

Do you have any idea what you are talking about? Have you been to school? The reason education costs have been and will continue to rise is because schools are no longer singularly concerned with teaching, especially in urban settings. Schools have become community triage centers. Go to one. Students from these communities come in so banged up and broken that a book and a desk and schoolwork is little else than another problem. I've been to meetings where ten professional people, ranging from lawyers to psychologists to student advocates are legally required to discuss, for instance, the second by second "flight path" of a student who, out of duress, leave one of his or her twelve assigned classrooms. It's nuts. Most of a school's costs and resources and energy are, for the lack of a better word, gobbled-up by a population of people who don't want to be there.

She looks like she hasn`t missed alot of meals.

She's probably extending out the negotiations because of all the free meals that are served to them during the day and into the evening.

Actually, this came to mind.....

www.google.com/imgres?num=10&hl=en&client=firefox-a&hs=3Zm&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&biw=1346&bih=607&tbm=isch&tbnid=Nr80APhOzX82jM:&imgrefurl=

(copy and paste )

Mnbus, you know he won't do anything, especially this close to the election. He can't piss off the teachers union. If he upsets them other unions will follow and not support him

If he upsets them other unions will follow and not support him

Fat chance. Obama and the labor unions are pretty much one and the same. He could dump all over them (which he won't) and they'd support him regardless.