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Subscribe to RSSAs the Chicago teachers strike entered its second week, disappointment is starting to grow. NBC's Rehema Ellis reports.
Updated at 7:09 p.m. ET: Chicago Mayor Rahm Emanuel's effort to use the courts to end a strike by thousands of public school teachers stalled on Monday as the contentious walkout moved into a second week.
During a short meeting, Judge Peter Flynn of Cook County Circuit Court postponed until Wednesday a request to hold an immediate hearing on an injunction to stop the strike, city law department spokesman Roderick Drew said.
Striking teachers are due to meet on Tuesday to decide whether to end the strike after delaying a decision on Sunday. Picketing at dozens of schools by teachers continued on Monday but was thinned by the Rosh Hashanah holiday.
Scott Olson / Getty Images
Striking Chicago public school teachers picket outside of the Jose De Diego Community Academy on Sept. 17, 2012.
The Chicago Public Schools filed a complaint in circuit court against the Chicago Teachers Union seeking a preliminary injunction "to end the strike immediately." It cited two reasons: danger to "public health and safety" of the students and alleged violation of Illinois state law that prohibits strikes except for wages and benefits.
"State law expressly prohibits the CTU from striking over non-economic issues, such as layoff and recall policies, teacher evaluations, class sizes and the length of the school day and year," the school district said in a statement. "The CTU's repeated statements and recent advertising campaign have made clear that these are exactly the subjects over which the CTU is striking."
Deepening rift
Emanuel's move took the dispute into uncharted territory as no injunction request has been filed in an Illinois education labor dispute since 1984, when the state gave Chicago teachers the right to strike. It also deepens the rift between the Democratic mayor, a top fundraiser for President Barack Obama's campaign, and organized labor, which generally backs Democratic candidates.
John Gress
Chicago Teachers Union members leave a House of Delegates meeting on the seventh day of their strike in Chicago, September 16, 2012.
The dispute between Emanuel, a former top White House aide to Obama, and the union had been close to resolution on Sunday when the union bargaining team recommended to a meeting of union activists that the five-day strike be suspended.
But a majority of the 800 or so union delegates, wary of promises made by Emanuel and the Chicago Public Schools, ignored the leadership and extended the strike until at least Tuesday.
The famously short-tempered Emanuel immediately issued a statement saying he would go to court to try to have the strike declared illegal.
"We are done negotiating," Chicago Board of Education President David Vitale said on Monday.
View NBCChicago.com for more coverage on the Chicago strike
Only a fraction of the 350,000 elementary, middle school and high school students affected by the strike have been using 147 schools manned by principals and non-union staff who have provided meals and activities for part of the school day.
About 80 percent of Chicago public school students qualify for free meals due to low family incomes. Churches, community centers and park facilities have also tried to provide help for parents.
For some Chicago parents, patience was wearing thin.
"I'm very frustrated that it's taken this long," said Renee Edwards, a mother whose son attends Ray Elementary School on Chicago's south side. "Parents were not told until 10 p.m. last night what the outcome would be, so it's just frustrating."
City council members also have been getting an earful from constituents.
"They feel that the negotiations have been taken to a personal level instead of negotiating on the best interests of our kids in the school," said Ray Suarez, a Chicago alderman.
“Parents are very concerned," said Walter Burnett Jr., another alderman. "There's a lot of concern about their kids. A lot of parents are leaving their kids at home."
'Not happy'
Delegates from the Chicago Teachers Union told their bargaining team Sunday that they want to meet with the schools they represent before making a decision about whether to end their strike.
"They’re not happy with the agreement and would like it to be a lot better for us than it is," Union President Karen Lewis said in a news briefing Sunday evening, adding that they are returning to their schools with the proposal because they do not want to feel rushed to make a decision.
A union bargaining team and city officials had worked out a proposed contract that would move away from merit pay and allow teachers to appeal their evaluations.
A faction of the union sees it as a "backroom deal" that does not have unified support. A source close to the union told NBC Chicago that Lewis' caucus shouted obscenities at her and other leaders late Saturday night, saying, "You sold out" and, "Rahm's getting everything they wanted, what the hell did we get?"
At the heart of those who oppose this new deal are those who feel the negotiating team did not fight for paraprofessionals and special education teachers and students.
Some delegates shouted at Lewis there was "no way to vote on something we haven't seen."
Read full coverage at NBCChicago.com
Teachers revolted last week against sweeping education reforms sought by Emanuel, especially evaluating teachers based on the standardized test scores of their students. They also fear a wave of neighborhood school closings that could result in mass teacher layoffs. They want a guarantee that laid-off teachers will be recalled for other jobs in the district.
The contract includes what Lewis called victories for the 29,000 union members, which she outlined on the union’s website:
As the Chicago teachers strike enters its second week, Mayor Rahm Emanuel hopes to get students back into schools by heading to court. City lawyers are seeking an injunction to force teachers back into the classroom as soon as possible.
PAY: The teachers union wants a three-year contract that guarantees a 3-percent increase the first year and 2-percent increases for the second and third years. The contract also includes the possibility of being extended a fourth year with a 3-percent raise. A first-year teacher earns about $49,000, according to the National Council on Teacher Quality; the highest-paid teacher earns $92,227.
Chicago Public Schools would move away from merit pay for individual teachers.
EVALUATION: Teachers would be evaluated 70 percent in terms of how they teach (“teacher practice”) and 30 percent in terms of how their students improve (“student growth”). Evaluations will not affect tenured teachers during the first year, and teachers may appeal their evaluation.
HIRES: Responding to parent demands, Chicago Public Schools would hire more than 600 teachers specialized in art, music, physical education and foreign languages, among other teacher specialties. More than half of large school districts rehire laid-off teachers,according to The New York Times; the Chicago school board has pushed to leave control to principals.
Those new hires will allow for the longer class day -- which will be seven hours for elementary school students, up from five hours and 45 minutes. Chicago had been known for one of the shortest school days in the country -- a point that became a sticking point for Mayor Rahm Emanuel.
Of those new hires, half must be union employees who were previously laid off. (Higher-rated teachers would have a better chance at being rehired, the Chicago Tribune reported.)
BULLYING: The contract demands ending bullying by principals and managerial personnel to “curtail some of the abusive practices that have run rampant in many neighborhood schools.” Principals, however, will continue to exercise power over hiring teachers, the Tribune reported.
In one instance, according to CBS Chicago, dozens of complaints were made about a principal at Josiah Pickard Elementary School during his five years on the job. A union representative told CBS Chicago that the volume of complaints was not normal for a principal.
Reuters contributed to this report.
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Leave a Comment:
They don't deserve crap! There are no good teachers, only good students.
That is the oddest thing I have ever read. Good teachers make good students. Teachers and parents make good students. Good students don't make themselves.
I'd be very interested to know the response of a child in the Chcago school district if asked:
Do you want to be a teacher when you grow up?
I will agree that good parents will help instill pride into a child thjat makes them want to excel. But teachers are irrelevant. Put a good student in a class with a computer animated teacher and he\she will still want to do well. A bad student will not excel under any circumstances. I went to school myself one time, and I know for a fact that only about one in 100 teachers are worth anything. On the other hand, about 70 percent of students have some desire to better themselves. So, 1% good teachers and 75 % good students. The other 25% of students should be put in reform school and classrooms should be electronically automated and teachers eliminated with the exception of the very early grades.
Ron you are in over your head...Maybe the nation of islam can help you.
WTF. This is utter BS. So is the "3 year contract." Are teachers salaried or contract workers???? I would just agree to their terms then fire all of them after 3 years.... This is why Unions are going down the drain. It gives workers rights, sure, but way too much power. I wouldn't be surprised of the test scores for these schools went down the drain for 2012-2013. I truly feel bad for the children who suffer because these teachers are being selfish like little brats. Seriously.
No one in the country has "job security" unless they are valued employees. They also want a 3% increase every year for the 3 year contract???? FIRE ALL THESE TEACHERS!!! You will EASILY find replacements for them, especially in this economy...
Oh how wrong you are.
Most good students make themselves along with their parents influence.
With the educational tools available now, schools are basically there for socialization.
The issue is results. Do these teachers have proof of good teaching? So collectively are they teaching well enough to inspire students to stay in school? Right now their graduating rate is 60 percent. We would normally say this is a failing grade. That is not to say all the failure should be carried by teachers, because our failing families are contributing a lot. The problem is the more families refuse to parent and provide, the more the government steps up and does their job. This is called enabling and hence why our public school system is failing compared to other nations. We have become a nation of complainers and whiners that look for every excuse and liberal thinking is allowing them a free pass.
The second issue was pointed out even from democrat pundits that say the existing pledges by Rahm to teachers is not affordable. CHICAGO and actually Illinois have a structural failure that needs to 1st be addressed. This is in regards to pension promises that there is NO way can be honored.
Presently pension contributions by the city has been postponed until 2014. When they are once again required to contribute for those teachers, the structural failure will worsen big time.
So why can't teachers see that the math doesn't add up and only going to taxpayers for their money to give to 26,000 teachers is the ONLY answer that really is unfair and doesn't come close to plugging the hole.
It was said today that the Chicago teachers union was taken over by radicals about 2 years ago that are campaigning to change America from a capitalist society that they feel isn't working to one of collectivism. Look at the signs, and listen to the gripes.
Thats maybe the most idiotic statement I have seen Malcontented-3522106, obviously you hold no value in education and are not smart enough to realize what you lack, sad.
These teachers think WAY too highly of themselves. How do they not realize they are the highest paid teachers in the country and as a whole they are close to the worse teachers in the country. They do a pathetic job yet demand more pay without the ability of being fired. This is stupidity at its finest. Please for the love of all that is right in the world, fire all of them. There are plenty of people that would take a $49,000 a year job to start with guaranteed raises. You dont need to be qualified or even that intelligent (see current teachers) to teach. Teachers are usually your under performing individuals in school and college, so they choose to go into teaching because it is an easy major with almost guaranteed job placement.
Teachers do NOT make good students. Teachers often make students worse if they touch them in any way. The best thing teachers can do is to get out of the way.
The ones who think they make students better are the ones stuffed with self importance who could never survive in the open market outside the safe cocoon of an academic institution.
I have never let my schooling stand in the way of my education.
Great post. These teachers average $ 75,000 / year and starting teachers come in at $ 49,000 / year? WOW! how many people in the private sector who work for one half of this would love to only have to work 180 x 7hr days and then not have to produce? Our educational system is in the toilet due for the most part by teachers unions that protect the pitiful workers in their group. I will not say that all teachers are bad, but teachers should have to produce in order to stay employed. Teachers unions, as well as fire, police, emergency personnel and healthcare workers should never be permitted to strike. These workers took an oath to serve and protect and that does not stop when they want to cry and whine about a contract. those of us that work in the private sector do not get automatic raises, let alone raises that exceed the COLA every year. We do not get our healthcare paid for nor do we have pensions that are guaranteed no matter what. These teachers need to all be fired and this union broken. No matter their excuses about no parents and homelessness and poverty, if you are a teacher you must teach and try to reach all learners. This strike is not about the students or building better schools, rather protecting inadequate teachers and padding the bank accounts of the union bosses as well as the members....$ 79000 / year without an evaluation on performance? Give me a break!!!!!
Go, Rahm; bust their asses!
Gary, I am not against education. It's the system I'm against. I went to school once and I assure you that teachers are way overrated. Parents are way more important. And those parents should have their kids taken away and the kids put into reform school. I assure you that their are way more good students than good teachers. I remember being in school and it was actually kind of nice when I had a teacher that actually had as much intelligence as I had. Unfortunately that only happened about five or six times. Maybe!
I'm generally against unions, but in some cases it *could be* a good thing.
Notice I say, "could be". I'm still dead-set against this particular strike.
One of my biggest criticisms of this particular action is that it appears to be petty, greedy, and worst of all, it's hurting the unions in other cities where they're needed.
Being a good teacher means, in the vast majority of cases, that you work harder for less money than with other professions. The teachers of Chicago don't fall into that category given their compensation and benefits (which are much higher than in most other cities, even taking into account cost of living).
I know this because I married a teacher. My wife *dreams* of making what her Chicago counterparts do. And she's union-free.
In short, I think unions are a mixed bag. When they're necessary, they can bring relevant and legitimate grievances to the table and force a change in working conditions or unfair and exploitative compensation.
When they're unneeded, they cause disarray, systematic strain and lost public trust.
I think mayor Emanuel, who has been unabashedly pro-union, is starting to see that.
There is no such thing as a bad student, only a bad teacher, or district....Sorry if the truth hurts...
kimposibl
"FIRE ALL THESE TEACHERS!!! You will EASILY find replacements for them, especially in this economy..."
Is that you Mitt? Spoken like a true republican corporatist/economic terrorist!
Malcontented-3522106: Going to school as a consumer doesn't make you any more of an expert on education than going shopping at Wal-Mart to buy products made in China makes you an expert in international business.
Please cite your sources for your statistics, other than "I made them up."
College students teach themselves, and the professors are mentors. AP students in high school are the same way. In those circumstances teachers are merely guides, letting the students know what to study. Other than that, teachers are essential as most students don't have the intelligence or ambition to reach their actual potentials.
Imagine how much further along in life you would be if you had actually been challenged and not allowed to coast?
The economics of the agreement continues down the road of inevitability. The City of Chicago cannot afford to pay teachers the amount of money in this agreement. Public Schools will have to be closed and teachers will have to be laid off. Charter schools will take the place of the closed public schools. They will be more successful in educating students because they can be selective in who attends those schools and because the cost per student will be significantly less than $13000 per student. It will reach a point where the charter schools will outnumber the public schools because their are simply more parents and students who value education versus the number of disruptive students that are robbing a great learning experience from the majority.
Yes, there will always be public schools. But, as long as there is no accountability for disruptive behavior and a law forcing public schools to provide an education for everyone under the age of 18, charter schools will continue to grow in numbers and produce better test scores.
I'm so over this. These teachers need to be gone, there are a TON of people willing to do a part time job for 49k/year. These demands are laughable when their school district has no money to begin with. How do you pay for something when you don't have the money?
The only one losing here is the children and the families of those children because these teachers are only looking out for themselves. If they weren't they wouldn't be haggling over guaranteed raises over more teachers being hired and better technology for their classrooms etc. That doesn't matter to them though. They're union, they just have to show up, go through the paces and then blame the students families for poor test scores. Lol.
Lewis is history. The union isn't behind her, the property tax payers aren't behind her, and I doubt if many in administrative posts are behind her. If the teachers can't see the negotiations... what about the taxpayer who is supposed to be paying for all of this. The kids don't count, the property taxpayer doesn't count, the other municipal workers don't count and no concern over how this will impact other cities and other districts with the discontent it has generated.
Where are all the libs? You'd think they'd be out in droves supporting the union. They ALWAYS support the unions!
On second thought, they ALWAYS support the unions when the other side is Republican! If the other side is Democrats then they'd actually have to think for themselves as to which side is right. I guess that's why they are silent here.
Reagan fired the air traffic controllers...planes were not falling out of the skies.
Camden fires union police and hires 160% more...non-union...More "bang for the buck", literally!
...so, teachers' jobs are sacred? Fire them...just like the "scab" air traffic controllers, you'll be happy with their replacements!
LOL! Micheal, there you go again!
First of all, I don't recite government propaganda BS as statistics. My numbers come from personal experience. Now, for the record I may have slightly exaggerated, but not much.
And also, what the H--- are you judging me for? (that last line of your comments) You don't know me or what my life is like. But, just for the record, I'm a happy camper. My life is just wonderful, for me.
By the way, Thanks for Asking!
Looks like a DIET might me in order for lots of these so called teachers.
So many people making up percentages and facts base on their personal experiences
... can't... take... it...
Teachers are not essential. Most teachers I've met in life were mediocre to average human beings. That's probably how they ended up being a teacher in the first place. They were marginal people in the real world and were flushed out of the system. That old saying is true: "Those who can't, teach."
Society would function just as well, if not better, if classrooms were automated.
It's sad to see children being held hostage. These greedy public service unions need to face facts...the golden goose is dead! In this challenging economy, taxpayers can no longer afford to pay for public sector employees' medical plans and pensions. GET REAL OR GET LOST!!!!
Just remember when unions are fully pushed out of all wage and benefit debates and weare left for our government to tell our employers what is fair. The minimum wage is $7.45 i think and not guarantee of any benefits.. The day will come when many of you will understand unions can be and have been good for all of us even if we aren't members. I so look forward to seeing the majority of you crying about your poor lifestyles becaue youn have to work 12 hour days 7 days a week and no overtime or holiday pay or vacations adn not enough money to put more than dogfood on the table to eat. If you don't think this will happen without union suppoert just look back a hundred years or so. History is making a turn around and those of you young bucks who can't see it will experience it before your working careers are done.
Hold on now, I support the teachers. Many of the schools in Chicago are really poor, and it's not fair to base anything on their students when some students even have to share textbooks at their schools because they can't afford more text books. Secondly, who doesn't love the fact that the teachers are fighting for their students, special needs, and para proffessionals? Keep up the fight Chicago!
BLS,
The saying is, "those who can't do, teach", and "those who can't teach, teach gym"
-Jack Black, School Of Rock
Why is Rahm conducting a War on Women, Hispanics, African-Americans.....When will Eric "MY PEOPLE" WithHolder file some trumped up Racist, Anti-Immigrant, Anti Lily Bedwetter Lawsuit from the New DORSEJ....(Department of Racial, Social and Economic Justice) .....The Racist Male WASJ Mayor of Chicago must be put in his place....The cell next to BLAGO....
Anyone know where the POTUS stands on this issue ???....I think the WhiteHouse has said "It's a local issue"...Barry must be having a hard time finding the comfortable shoes in his closet he promised he would wear to join the picket lines for his Union Brutha's & Sista's....
witchrunner:
Liberals support the unions right to negotiate as a group. They do not support the unions right to a guaranteed job, no evaluations, high pay, etc. That's the Karl Rove tactic of misdirection and blatant lies about the issues.
Unions got where they are because of weak negotiators on the part of the school boards and parents willing to back the unions because they thought they were paying for daycare and didn't want the kids at home when they should be in school. Rahm is dealing with the union much tougher than they thought and it has surprised them, just like its surprised the TPRepubs. Rahm and Obama have decided to deal with the issue as it SHOULD - unions can be for the betterment of the workers, you just have to be a little tougher than their negotiators and be willing to let them go out on strike and survive without a paycheck for a little while. TPRepubs don't want to deal with the problem, they just want it to go away by killing it. Kinda' like SS and medicare - don't fix it and make it work, just make it go away because its too hard and might require compromise.
So, newswinner,
Paying the teachers 20% more is going to make textbooks more affordable, How? Anyone who can't see this as teachers wanting more for themselves, I just don't know. I guess you guys just refuse to see. Leave out the evaluation and pay demands. Then demand new books more money for school supplies better school lunches and then maybe "real" people would sympathize with the cause. "Make no mistake", this is about teachers not students.
Malcontented-3522106
I am not judging you. I'm glad to hear you are happy. I am also glad to learn that you think for yourself. What I am doing is challenging your statistics and your implied statement that you were not properly challenged in school. I actually wanted to read the study you were referencing.
There are many legitimate sources for statistics, not just the GAO. Anecdotal evidence is really not valuable outside of the actual school classes you attended and took. Your experience, when combined with a significant portion of students across the country is relevant (important).
Since, by your own admission, you are not referencing anything, I will leave you be.
WOW! A democrat going against the union? The world is truly coming to an end! lol...
Hey MIke-680333 are you braindead? Unions got the minimum wage law in place. Without them you would be slaving for longer hours, far less pay (probably about $1-2 per hour), and more health risks. I hate uneducated morons like you...get with it man, unions are generally a good thing...even if they are a pain in the rear. It's their job to be hard to work with.
Red is the perfect color for these socialist Demorats.
BLS-744646 - Yeah, it is an old saying. But what basis does it have in fact? I will wholeheartedly agree that there are some teachers who this statement applies to. But, the same can be said for any business, any organization, to include all levels of politics. It applies equally to every job in both the private and public sector. Teachers, by default, are better educated than the average citizen. It is the lack of respect for education that causes and creates the problems we have in education. When a parent says such a statement, even as a jest, they have just damaged the teachers credibility to their child, and therefore lowered their child's expectations towards education. A better statement would be "Those who can, teach. Those who can't act as a typical average America parent who fail to see value in an educated population just as long as they can watch their reality programming."
Avenger: Most all of the unfair labor practices have been addressed by Labor Laws. I take far less issue with private sector unions as I do public unions. Who sits across the table to protect those of us who end up paying the bills? Who is protecting MY interests? Public sector unions should be unconstitutional because it is taxation without representation!!! One recent article stated that "out of each new dollar added to the education budget, 71 cents goes to pension costs". Who is providing your pension? I bet it's YOU just like I'm providing MINE!!
These terrible teachers love Obama! Birds of a feather?Some refer to Obama
as a Manchurian Candidate, being a political figure planted and supported by
our enemies. I don’t know about Barry being a Manchurian Candidate. To be more
precise, he was an Indonesia Candidate. From this point forward, the Indonesia
Clerics sponsored and gave him special Islamic training. He also received financial, immoral and other
unholy support. It now seems the clerics have an excellent return on their
investment, a gift that keeps on giving. Praise is to Allah!
On February 27th, 2007, Barack Hussein Obama said the Muslim call to prayer is
“one of the prettiest sounds on Earth at sunset.” In an interview with Nicholas
Kristof, published in “The New York Times”, Obama recited the Muslim call to
prayer - the Adhan -with a first-class Arabic accent. He must take a daily
refresher course!
The Adhan is as
follows: ( At the cost of one’s soul, do not read out loud)
Allah is Most Great, Allah is Most Great
Allah is Most Great, Allah is Most Great
I bear witness that there is none worthy of being worshipped except Allah.
I bear witness that there is none worthy of being worshipped except Allah.
I bear witness that Muhammad is the apostle of Allah.
I bear witness that Muhammad is the apostle of Allah.
Come to prayer, Come
to prayer
Come to Success. Come to Success.
Allah is Most Great. Allah is Most Great
There is none worthy
of being worshipped except Allah.
The Islamic dogma is
deeply engraved in Barrack’s heart and mind. He knew the significance of these
words from his Quranic Studies. A satanic aura surrounded “The One” as he
earnestly spoke the words. Maybe this was the origin for many of their dark
lord!
Demorats want these failures teaching your kids!
Fire all the teachers.... They don't do their jobs well anyway.
Promote home schooling ..... it works well in other states...
If Union Prep Charter Academy can get every graduating student who also happens to be black and also happens to live in Chicago into a certified 4 year university, then the least the Chicago school system can do is graduate all the students and send a great percentage to college!
Decertify the union higher teachers who want to teach and let the others learn how to teach children.
jaybornio...
They fired 270 and hired just over 400...
Do the math, genius!
http://finance.townhall.com/columnists/mikeshedlock/2012/08/10/camden_nj_fires_entire_police_force_why_cities_are_going_bankrupt/page/full/
there's more...just look it up...sheeeesh!
EverythingIsUpsideDown
Although there are a few laws that a meant to protect workers rights there are way too few to say we don't need unions. Holidays, holiday pay, sicke leave pay, health insurance benefits, retirement benefits work hours and number of hours and days ina work week are just some of the things Federal labor laws do not have manditory standards for. My last job was at an old foundry building. There was no heat at all in the place. Federal labor laws do not mandate an minimum working temp only "suggestions" I checked, so not only did we freeze our bejesus's off we had to watch where we walked because the roof also leaked and there would be ice and snow on the floor. My first holidy experience was labor day and I asked the owner what we were doing about the holiday on Monday. He said " What holiday" .
The federal government does have a wage that must be paid and if less than 8 bucks an hour is too your likeing in the future then yep we don't need unions setting the standard for us any more. Federal labor laws do little in mandating workers wages or benefits and not nearly enough in health and safety issues. I have experienced first hand how the federal labor laws will work when unions are finally gone. I will be gone and won't have to deal with it but you most likely will. When the day comes you will remember mywarning to you.
I like that Micheal, "teachers are more educated than the average person".
Just remember you can educate an idiot, but you still have an idiot. Just look towards Washington and that becomes abundantly clear. Lawmakers in both parties are just educated idiots. Education has absolutely nothing to do with intelligence. In that respect teachers and lawmakers have a lot in common.
How do books on the first day of school qualify as a contract item? That shame goes uniquely to poor administration.
Malcontented...
Very good point...
I've always said "you can polish a dry turd only but so much before it begins to stink again!"
Look - you'd be fat too if you ate all that free food provided by the school board
It really makes one sympathetic to these teacher's demands; particularly when I see the meager salaries they make
One Chicago teacher talking to another: "When is this strike going to be over? I'm starving!!"
Avenger, I'd like to be able to support teachers' union; I've had many wonderful teachers in my life and I belive it is a noble profession that deserves recognition.
BUT - the starting salary for this district is $49,000 for teaching 7 hours a day, 180 days a year. That's approximately $39 dollars an hour. The AVERAGE teacher makes over $70,000 - that works out to be $55 an hour. How is that unfair compensation?
At some point, even the most pro-union people have to say "No More". The system simply cannot support it.
DoWhatYouLove...
And the numbers you cited did not include @ $20K worth of benefits! I'd say for working 9 months out of the year, they are doing just fine!
OMG... WTF are you people doing..
HOW DID YOU GET WHERE U ARE TODAY?? YOU NEVER HAD A TEACHER who was or is still an inspiration.. teachers work long hours for a ten month salary that most have set into 12 month salaries..
many of you are republicans and fail to understand what goes on in a classroom... it is an awesome task sometimes yet so rewarding.. to see a child smile when he figures out the problem after struggling with it for awhile..
it is so hard to pathom teaching in a class room of 40 or more students, who have never been tested but are the correct age..
teaching is not babysitting.. and parents and critics need to understand that.. not many parents participate
iun their chiulds education since they are generally working more than one job , or some just don't care..
As an educator I generally worked more than 11 hours a day and on the weekends.. and a greater portion of teachers still do exactly that
setting standards to evaluate teachers most of these evaluations would take on some very strange lives???? most would be done by the school board.. interesting about those groups I've never seen ONE that wasn't crooked so that would be a super evaluation...
we keep tossing around the salaries of those teachers.. a greater percentage of teachers have multiple degrees.. HOW ABOUT U FOLKS?????
There are some very good teachers.. unfortunately they are surrounded by thousands of crappy ones. And the union protects the crappy ones...
now.. after you completed your education.. and you were out and about what starting salary were you seeking..??
it's time the mayor and the school board president and other members of the school board..
list of salaries should include every one in the administration including secretaries.. shall I hold my breath waiting for the answer LOL
DOWHATULOVE In all my years I never knew an educator work less than 10 - 11 hours a day..
most teachers work a week or more after school closes and at least 10 days before the new school year..
so.. simple question how much do you make, how many degrees do you have, and how many hours a day do you work.. go question the administration about their salaries.. be ready for the OMG that will errupt from you mouth
Good
teacherspolicies (Goverment) make goodstudentsbusinesses.TeachersPolicies andparentsregulations make goodstudentsbusinesses. Goodstudentsbusinesses don't make themselves.@ Michael
I found some errors and took the liberty of correcting them for you. Now you can continue drinking your leftist un-exceptionalism kool aid where someone always takes the credit for some else's hard work.
A good teacher can be a great benefit to a good student but a good teacher can't do much with an unmotivated student and a good student can over come a poor teacher. Good teachers are great, albeit few and far in between, but they don't make the student. A student makes themselves.
DAMN
CANTAKENOMORE please list those benefits and how much each one is.. teachers work 10 months not 9..
it frightens me to think that some of you folks are out on the loose
Mike:
Get on the train before it leaves you. We no longer have separation of parties or ideals. We are now operating in a crony capitalistic form of government.
Nancy's Red Diaper Doper Baby - Sorry, but I am not on the side of the left. Try again.
We are talking about people here, not business.
People need motivation. People need a reason. People, rightfully so, should not be a blind follower.
So, take your own "kool-aid."
An upper high school student can make themselves. All college students should be making themselves. But we are not talking about the exceptions, we are talking about the average student. Or at least I am.
There is an old cliche "When the student is ready, the teacher will come." As a society, we don't have time for all students to "get ready." As a society we need to push them to be ready to be a productive, contributing member of society. Sorry, but history has proven that they aren't going to push themselves. Given a choice between a mindless (non-educational) video game and an educational video game, typical students are going to select the non-educational one. They have to be led in the right direction.
But I will concede that no teacher, parent, or anybody else can make the student think. They can provide the tools, but ultimately it is up to the student to think for themselves.
@ Avenger
Your first mistake is in believing that the Government should have a say in what a business pays it's employees. You second mistake is believing that businesses don't recognize and reward merit. People with marketable skills will never be minimum wage earners because businesses will compete for their services. People at minimum wage typically have minimum skills so if you're making minimum wage learn some skills.
Three words... Emmanuel, Unions, Chicago. The same three that bring us Obama. Thank you Chicago style politics... Thank you Labor Unions. Thank you former Obama cabinet member.
Ok, fine: $70,000 for 11 hours a day for the requisite 180 days a year PLUS 10 days at the start and end of every school year - STILL making over $31 an hour. That is a healthy salary, plus you get better benefits than most, PLUS a pension.
I'm not saying you should be paid less. I DO respect teachers. I have many in my family (they rarely work 11 hours a day by the way, but whatever).
I AM saying that it is greed to DEMAND (at the cost of children, no less) that you be paid more, especially when you are already doing better than most of the people paying your salary - the TAXPAYERS. The system cannot support the demands these teachers are making.
For a job that most half wits could do and NO HEAVY LIFTING?
Of course, the problem is the bad teachers which the teachers union has to protect I assume...but..we need good teachers only..no bad ones....union member or not..bad teachers need to be elsewhere in every schoiol system. This nation is falling way behind most other nations in educating its kids..and so far..not even our politicans are willing to help. And to prove they are not willing to help. cnosider the cuts to education by congress...and especially the republicans in the past two years..and they want to be the office of power. I have to wonder just where this nation will end up if we as a nation continue to allow our elected to cut education...rather than their own pay.
@Newswinner101
Yes and they are poor in part because the teachers have sucked the well dry. I'm sure they'd much rather buy books than give a raise to the highest paid teachers in the country.
For those that say these teachers get paid avg $70k and work 7 hour days - you are incorrect. Elementary school kids were in class less than 6 hours a day last year. Chicago had one of the shortest school days in the country. Part of these negotiations was to increase the school day to 7 hours to allow time for art class, music class, etc. Starting this year. They want to hire new teachers specialized in these areas to teach these classes, so what happens to the homeroom teacher? They have a planning period? What is wrong with that?
@ 1.34 Malcontented-3522106
I agree, this all about the teachers, not the kids. This is really causing some issues for the families of these kids whose parents have had to find someone to care for their kids while they are at work with extra $$$$ out of their pockets which they most likely can not afford.
@ 1.25 justredd64
Good to see they're finally getting some exercise.
@ 1.33 blearyeyed
Glad to see that Rham isn't backing down. Definitely took them by surprise. I've seen Rham on 60 Minutes & such, very impressed by him and quite impressed with Obama.
The Mayor said the strike is illegal. Give them 24 hrs. to return to the classroom. Fire any that do not return and relace them with new DAY-CARE workers. That is all many of them are capable of anyway. They can't claim to br educators when 80% of 4th. and 8th. grade students tests are below standard. IF they are so good, why do almost half of P.S. Teachrts send their own kids to private school?
maxgiver...
http://blog.heritage.org/2012/09/13/chicago-teachers-retirement-benefits-are-extravagant/
When Chicago teachers began their strike on Monday, critics rightly pointed out that the city already pays one of the highest average teacher salaries in the nation. Even more important, however, is the generous retirement package received by Chicago public school teachers.
A Chicago teacher who retired in 2011 after 30 or more years of service time could expect an annual pension payment of $77,496. For context, the average Social Security benefit—which requires a much higher employee contribution into the system—would likely be in the range of $25,000 to $30,000 per year for a worker with a similar salary history.
Another way to think about the Chicago teacher pension system is to examine the employer’s “normal cost,” meaning the cost of additional benefits that accrue each year to current teachers. In 2011, the risk-adjusted normal cost was 46 percent of wages. (See technical note below.*)
In other words, for every dollar of salary paid to Chicago teachers, the city also incurred a cost of 46 cents for the future pension benefits they accrued in 2011. By contrast, the employer cost of a typical 401(k) plan in the private sector is about 4 percent of wages.
...and you were saying???
Paying more to teachers will not make them better teachers.
TidBits from CNN: Q&A: What's behind the Chicago teachers' strike?
The union says student performance is directly linked to conditions in the home or neighborhood, making it unfair for teachers to be punished if students don't do well in the the classroom for those reasons.
The Chicago Teachers Union will make no decision Monday. They are taking the day off for Rosh Hashanah, the Jewish New Year.
. . . the White House has had little to say about the strike.
I see that the judge is looking out for the kids just like the teachers and union. They should all be replaced.
OOooohhh, Rahm. Not kissing union butt? Daddy won't be happy.
This is a clear example of how unions hold employers hostage without any consideration of the collateral damage..In this case, the invisible and powerless community of children
Indeed, the dumbocraps need to keep sucking union wang for votes. Keep'um strong!
As with all government sector unions, they have a monopoly of the services they are providing. If charter schools were allowed to compete with the public schools, the lower the cost to the taxpayers and the results for student growth would be better.
But, this strike shows that the CTU doesn't care about the students they teach, they only care about more pay and preventing competition.
You can bet your ass that behind the scenes big daddy Nobama has been trying to make this oork. Couldn't make it happen.. he's failing in everything he touches just like the Teachers union here.
And today children our class will learn how pigs eat. Your assignment will be to watch this evenings news about the teacher strike. You will then know all you need to know about the big fat piggies. See if you can find the one they call Karen?
Got to love Unions, Don't work still get paid, Incompetent , no problem, No Skills, No Work, No Problem,
Whats that, we have due's no Problem you get paid 3 to 4 times what any one non-union does..
Union Carpenter making more than Non-Union Nurse... No skills its okay ,
Whats that you are in charge of saving Lives, and need an Education .. no UNION lots of Problems !!!
UNIONS-are driving this country more and more toward SOCIALISM. During this election period they have spent Millions of Dollars supporting a very Socialist point of view. As the private sector becomes more and more absorbed by UNION AND GOVERNMENT regulations PLUS Increased Tax Levis I WONDER WHO WILL BE ABLE TO PAY FOR ALL THIS BURDEN!!!!
HATS OFF TO THE CHICAGO MAYOR- U ARE DOING THE RIGHT THING! WISH THE MAYOR OF NEW YORK CITY WOULD KNOCK OUT THESE UNIONS HERE IN THE CITY. DON`T GET ME STARTED ON NYC-GEEZ
denver bill 2, that response just shows your ignorance. What has anyone else have to do with it, other than more idiotic partisan rhetoric. Obama treatas this a s a local issue, wingnuts bitch. If he makes a comment, then you bitch. Rahm takes a firm stand with the teacher's union, and you think you know what's happening in Chicago. I guess Denver is some backwater wingnut utopia. Adults are having a discussion, why don't you put your big boy pants on and have your mommy make you a sandwhich.
After seeing the photos I have to wonder if those are the teachers or a group photo from a federal prison gathering.
Some delegates shouted at Lewis there is "no way to vote on something we haven't seen."
Really, That's not what Nancy Pelosi said when Obamacare got passed. How many of those union thugs liked that??
Fire them all and start hiring teachers who are willing and able to teach!
I notice that there are shirts commemorating the strike. How classless is that?? Disband these thugs. Education is for the kids, not to line their pockets. Teachers can get the money they are asking for if you just get rid of the union. They are in it for no one but themselves.
hell yeah...give the dance teachers a raise...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QN4tPpJngyM&feature=related
So you're saying Obama will be happy? I don't subscribe to that theory.
I'd be hurt ...... if I valued your opinion. BTW, are you a product of the Chicago school system?
I smell smoke and can swear I hear a lyre playing.
...or the meds just haven't kicked in...
Rahm Emanual and Scott Walker should join forces they both have basiclly the same ideas!!! It's just ones a Democrat,(making what he does OK) the other a Republican, (which is a villan).
start getting used to it... this is how a union operates, and holds the people giving the money hostage. be it a teachers union, or any other union... why do you think any smart buisness deals with over the boarders, and seas? SUUURE... the union gets, and gets, until its cheaper to have it done over seas... SHIPPED to the US...lol.
welcome to the US economy dumb-a$$! you are not the only ones who want it better. you of the top paid, yet less producing, and you blame life as the problem, more finger pointing. After reading baiscs previously, i thought it was a dam good fair deal. you do your job, or get the F out, and dont let the door break your a$$ on the way out.
a faction.... back room deal? hmm sounds like the way the stimulous was dished out, and how NObama-care was debated/voted in. Question for you teachers on strike, whom i think is safe to say are in full support of how both was done without live debate (promised several times from NObama until 3 days before the debate). HOW does it feel?
you think you were a bum living in the streets under your previous contracts?
now, i dont know about you guys... but those are part timer hours. doesnt come out close to a full time work week. starting pay is basically 50 grand a year? for what they do now being next to a glorified babysitter... (seiously thinking i made a wrong turn in long term carrers when i see the top wage) topping out @ $92,227..... (head falls to desk and rolls side to side for a bit). anyone not seeing a problem with this job not even being other than basically a SEASONAL job, with a 3+ month paid vacation, plus time at the school also paid vacation? now, how many who didnt think of all that prior dropped your head on your desk?
GIMMIE A BIG W T F !
now the basics i will not bore with a copy and paste, scroll up.... but as it is, why be afaid of anything?
ok teachers with time on the job have a free pass for one year to adjust. if your class is what it is, your union rep will back you if undue performance issues arise you seem unfair. mine is doing it for me right now (so he says ;)... ) and i hold him good on his word, but he looks a little more like he may want to convince himself first, before trying to convince me. however, if right is right, it happens.
here is where you teachers might want to take good notice..... parent demands , means the people who PAY your salary, want to hire more teachers. now, your district says they need their kids to learn. not you. you want smaller classes? there ya go. they feel maybe 2 1/4 hrs in school, is 2 1/4 hrs off the street learning other thing like selling/doing drugs. having sexual intercourse before mom or dad gets home. (like some actually care about all this stuff mind you, pffffT! right!). the PUBLIC the same people who is YOUR BOSS says its what is needed. now, to make this happen, taxes will have to be raised to pay for this. all at current salarys. Chicaga is already so far in the red.who cares? but then, the public who insists on this can also demand no raise in taxes. this means wage cut... or go bankrupt. that means like the rest of Americans who still have to work 40+ who knows how many hrs to match YOUR SALARY FOR 1YR. the better news, they recall more of your union sis' an bro's. in rank and file order based tenure and teaching trade. the person the schoolboard feels who can compently run the school, on behalf of the taxpayers, will be the little man reporting you. AND having a little say, on behalf of those who pay taxes. tuche'
sounds like a winner to me. so if you file a greivance, np.
ok another winner! im hip for that too, cant teach if you dont have refrence, and the proper tools.
so you get your $. you get called back to work. you get one of the most lucrative positions in your field.you get to cry about your boss as much as you like, because you think he works you too hard, and doing his job, as your supervisor, is too much for you slackers. you get WAY more than most people, but THIS isnt enough? what in the hell is wrong with this picture?
at least he has the nads to call it like it is.
like i said before.... how does it feel? sux?
We students need to have a voice in the school system. We suffer because teachers only teach to the test, we dont learn things that are relevant to life. We need a voice.
@ denverbill2,
Oh boy, you're a genius. Yep in my haste I did not run spell check before hitting the post button. Your momma must be so proud of you. My point was, if you had actually tried reading, was Obama hasn't made a comment either way, but it doesn't matter, because idiots like you will bitch and moan and try to bring him in to the conversation. And if you are from Denver, what the hell do you know about anything in Chicago. My suggestion was you should stick to issues in Denver, since you obviously know nothing about what is going on here.
because, ot you, nor your parents are out there telling them right this minute, "maybe some of what you need for once first" (being imo a good title for your good cause), because YOUR parents pay for you to go to school, and bless your heart, for wanting to learn other than text book to test.
the kids, and or their parents should be out there letting their voice be heard, they are the ones who are paying. maybe every taxpayer in the area who has a job should be out there. show the thugs who still run the show, YOU THE TAXPAYER! YOU THE STUDENT!
look... you want freedom of speech, go give it. you dont agree with some one makeing 50G a year for serious part time work, say so. if this was a full time job.. 40 hrs a week, 12 mos a yr.. ok agreeable. this isnt even close, and the poor... pi$$-poor results are staggering in compairison.
you kids who want to learn, be successful at anything in life should be there fighting for your school/schooling. you go to school there to learn. maybe its time to strike back, standing across from your teachers, and leagally tell them you want what you want 1st before they get 1 dime.
almost forgot....
Chicago... a nice place to see pictures of in a magazine, but you dont want to go there.
Oh no, I didn't think becoming Mayor would be so "troublesome". Guess I can't use my "Chicago's Man on Five" (Top Down) type of governing on this one. These pesky Union people. Who do they think they are messing with me ? They keep screwing up my 8:30 am T-off time with Mr. Bixelrod, Valerie Jarrett, and Mr. O.
Maeanwhile, back in REALITY.......
Ahhhhhh......Newsvine.....a great place to meet new friends and influence people -----> Azrael-2240384 post above.
So your (implied) answer to my question is that Obama doesn't care, one way or the other. Sorry, I don't subscribe to that theory either.
@ Ido
You might want to get out more. Newsvine might be a great way to meet new friends, but I doubt anyone would be influenced by you or I. Once you have decided to post you have probably made up your mind one way or another.
Let's see? Hmm. I knew all about the neighborhoods and poor test performances when I took this job. The first thing I want to do is use that as some sort of a bargaining chip for more stuff for me and the last thing I want to do is use that as some sort of appraisal on me as a teacher.
What a poor excuse of entitlement thinking you striking teachers exhibit. Poor wittle teacher got it so rough. Not getting your share on the compensation end yet answerable to no one on your responsibilities.
How about doing your "job" or step aside to the hundreds of others still looking for a teaching job. Your mindset and attitude sickens and infuriates me. And all at the expense of the kids who someday will probably grow up to be just like you. If it were up to me, you'd all be fired.
MOSSY... you really need a reality check.. do you scorn your DDR when he increases his fees so he can buy a bigger house or a summer place, or a bigger boat... NO I bet you don't .. I am not certain when was the last time I got $210.000.00 worth of service in a 15 minute visit..
now tell me about your job and how much you make.. you do realize the folks pulling all the strings (administration) all make better than $200.000.00.. but it's ok they are not ununionized.. just greedy..
what is serious part time work you idiot... on the average teachers work about 13 months a year but you think it is 8-9 hours a day for 9 months.. you have to take math lessons from RYAN.. because your's is as bad as his and he is a nit wit..
now to your education.. was it all self taught or are you a prodigy(I DOUBT) you could have beccome a teacher if you could pass the entrance tests..
the union exists because educators were an oppresed group.. just like nurses, if they strike all the patients in the hospital have to be moved, but that's ok I guess..
90 % of those chicago teachers love their job.. that nasty little left over group that are trying to give GREED a new name.. that is the group against the evaluations since they probably will get booted and so it should be..
most if not all automotive workers belong to a union and u are charged upwards to $100.00 per hour for service,, changing oil, rotating tires, filling your fluid levels and , wait most got their knowledge and their certificate to work from WHAT.. oh yes a teacher and a school..
I wonder if you know some steele workers make almost $100.00 per hour..
NUKE workers (union) a majority of those folks make well over $5,000.00 a week
the big question to MOSSY and many others
how did these people get their start??? EDUCATION, by a devoted educator..
do any of you posters belong to a union.. bet you won't respond
TEACHING TO THE TEST is a disasterous method of education.. the discipline is the TEST without any variations in your teaching.. best example FLORIDA.. Jeb Bush hooked the state into a system called FCAT..
probably the worst system ever scores went down kids gave up and educators became bored.. but her in FL it was a good deal since Jebbie gave his brother in law a huge NO BID contract to creat the tests, publish them and then find the folks to grade this test.. that FCAT BS cost the state of florida a young fortune.. and educators had to work thru that mess.. it was very difficult since the tests we repetitious, and I mean repititious.. aan along with that Florida became a right to work state.. so teachers were/are unable to protect themselves..
MYtwocentsworth.. PLEASE tell one other profession that gets evaluated like educators.. your answer should be very interesting
hahaha...that's absolute horseshyte...how do you think we got the Affordable Care Act?
Just ask Nancy "We gotta pass it so we can find out what's in it" Pelosi.
Name another profession that is responsible for the education of America's children...? The education of children is of such tantamount importance to our country that is should be a national security issue to require that teachers are qualifed and competent.
For those who feel that poor neighborhoods, and high per-centages of minority students, provide an automatic pass when it comes to teaching performance, spend a couple of minutes reading the following.
The movie "Stand and Deliver" based on the book "Escalante: The Best Teacher in America", is an excellent example of what can be done in spite of geographical location. Sadly it also tells of the intransigence of the Teachers Union. (The following excerpts are taken from Wikipedia; Jaime Escalante).
The book and the movie highlight his achievements (most notably when in 1982, Escalante came into the national spotlight when 18 of his students passed the challenging Advanced Placement Calculus exam) while teaching at Garfield High School (1974-1991), a school with a high per-centage of minority students and its accreditation threatened (1974).
The school administration opposed Escalante frequently during his first few years. He was threatened with dismissal by an assistant principal because he was coming in too early, leaving too late, and failing to get administrative permission to raise funds to pay for his students' Advanced Placement tests. This opposition changed with arrival of a new principal, Henry Gradillas.
By 1987, 73 students passed the A.P. calculus AB exam and another 12 passed the BC version of the test. This was the peak for the calculus program. The same year Gradillas went on sabbatical to finish his doctorate with hopes that he could be reinstated as principal at Garfield or a similar school with similar programs upon his return.
Over the next few years Escalante's calculus program continued to grow but not without its own price. Tensions that surfaced when his career began at Garfield escalated. In his final years at Garfield, Escalante received threats and hate mail from various individuals, and by 1990, he had lost the math department chairmanship. At this point Escalante's math enrichment program had grown to 400+ students. His class sizes had increased to over 50 students in some cases. This was far beyond the 35 student limit set by the teachers' union, which in turn increased criticism of Escalante's work. In 1991, the number of Garfield students taking advanced placement examinations in math and other subjects jumped to 570. That same year, citing faculty politics and petty jealousies, Escalante left Garfield. Escalante found new employment at Hiram W. Johnson High School in Sacramento, California.
At the height of Escalante's At the height of Escalante's influence, Garfield graduates were entering the University of Southern California in such great numbers that they outnumbered all the other high schools in the working-class East Los Angeles region combined.[
The math program's decline at Garfield became apparent following the departure of Escalante and other teachers associated with its inception and development. In just a few years, the number of A.P. calculus students at Garfield who passed their exams dropped by more than 80 percent.
@ denverbill2
I never implied one way or another. Nor do I know what his thoughts are on the matter. For me, it's a local matter and people bringing Obama into the conversation, because Rahm once served under him is pointless. Rahm can be pro union, but doesn't have to agree or roll over for everything a particular union demands.
time to clean house and start over starting at the top!
Let's see now;
- Throw more money at the problem.
- No accountability.
- Excuses for lousy performance.
- Typical Chicago politics.
What do they have in common? Oh yes - that's where Obama comes from.
Really Fletch, tell me, who are CEOs in it for? It's reasonable for them to have employment contracts but not common people? Why not get your head out of FOX New's ass and ask yourself if you really want an oligarchy? If you don't know what that is perhaps you should look it up before you and your buddies bring it on.
"We are done negotiating,"
It's on.
Yes, indeed. Another fine example of how property taxes are being spent. This is becoming the " Fall of the Roman Empire " only retitled to become " The Autumn of the Public Employee's Union ".
@ maxgiver 2.28 Air traffic controllers?
Most of these teachers are only concerned with "pay day" and the sound of the bell in the evening and will, in the end, be the winners again.
Just another turn in the downward spiral of this Nation since removing our Creator from all aspects of educating our children.
A DR spends about 8 yrs or so in grad, as well post grad... far more than a K-12 teacher.
they also fall into a entirely different catagory. you want to compaire apples to oranges, and call them 1 of the same, i say u r banannas.
13 months a year? really? maybe you need to go back to 1st grade, i think that is even late in learning there are only 12 months to a year. teachers staying after the day is not an every day task. you dont work weekends. you have a less than 6 hr class day. sounds a little like you went to the NObama institute of mathmatics, 1+1=as mush as you can bleed from the taxpayer. (name calling isnt nice either)
umm ya, actually in 6th grade i was equal to freshman college 6th month lvl in 4 consecutive exsams. so i did study. and i looked at the "certificate test" and yes easily could have passed it by the time i was out of HS, lol.
teachers are PUBLIC SERVANTS, paid by taxpayers hard earned money. a little differnt than you want to pretend it is... still on apples and oranges i see, lol.
it doesnt really sound by whats been going on, or the pictures in the news, only 10% of teachers are not in agreement. remember... 90% is a larger amount than 10%? yes it is. again, i think you might have missed a few classes. you also fail to realise, GREED as you call it has no bearing in public, PUBLIC SECTOR JOBS. it has to do with the ECONOMY. WORKING people PAY your SALARY. not a whole lot of wowrking people out there are there?
they actually got those jobs because they went to college. you think these mechanics are some shade tree mechanic from off the street with a sub HS education? YOU JEST! IF you think this is such an easy task to learn, why do they exsist? they recieved from a professional instructor, not some HS shop teacher, and not EVEN close to HS being able to teach, much less comprehend HOW to teach such a class. more apples and oranges, Ronnie must be laughing his a$$ off right now.
now this is where i can say you are only partially correct. there is what is called hazard pay. it is added on as an addition wage, when dangers such as great heights, underwater activities related to the job, and done yes, when at certain depths, as like hights, the greater the distance, the greater the pay. DID YOU KNOW SOME MAKE OVER $200hr?
did you know i have taken part in the steel trade for over 25 yrs? have taken part in making EVERY type of toy i had as a kid in real life, minus aircraft? going to be launching a ship in a little under a month, AGAIN. i can say in this ship i have taken part in several portions in making it. pounding down the frame work, and erecting bulkheads, decks, putting sections of it together, putting in pipe systems. i dont do electrical, nor paint. (have in the past for other things) i even do HVAC :) YOU PAY for me at this point where i work. unlike SOME union members who ride the welfare train, there are still more who respect who pays our wages. who take GREAT PRIDE in the work they do, and when this ship like ALL THE OTHERS before her, it puts a lump in our chest when it hits the water for the first time. ALL this... and i do not complain about my modest wage. I HAVE MADE MORE in non union shops.... only problem is, the NO-show in office now let them bleed themselves dry, putting restrictions on how THEY do buisness. (other wise, these jobs would be far more abundant, and easier to obtain without being laid off for yrs at a time)
and WHAT workers are you referring to?
maybe back in OUR DAY, before you try compairing REAL TIME teachers to lazy thugs, reading more posts? the lol, education sector is overpaid in Chicago. they have p!$$ poor results, and blame the economy, parents, life in general. i will tell you... when i went to school, you learned by a teacher, who was in front of the class teaching from text book, not TEST-BOOK! there IS a huge difference. it shows in test scores. it shows when they dont have the smarts to even look for a job, because the teacher permitted them to f**k off and then try to pass them off to the next batch of those who were in it for the welfare. these same people graduated from HS and didnt even know how to read a childrens book. THEN teachers claimed, if you want us to teach pay us more. yes... i remember.
however, being a teacher (as more than one teacher has said to me personally) the reward is in the learning. to see kids become somebody. it isnt about the money. ( i had thought about being a teacher on and off for yrs in school, so i asked as i learned about their job) something THEY knew when THEY went to school to become a teacher. unlike today. obviously.
yes as a matter of fact i do belong to a union. have been in 5 union shops total. i have made more per hr in non union shops, more than in. i have seen the union take EVERY raise i recieved thru contract to be pumped into some fraudulent fund from health care to retirement. i know for a fact, the previous union i belonged to that took my $1.00 raise per hr worked (just like 500+ other employees) and when it added up, just with my current donation rate, it came out to over $9,960,000.00 a yr for the last yr i worked. but when my daughter needed treatment, the union with MY money left me out to dry. after i did that math, i got a new job (non union). the current union i belong to, filed bankruptcy on the retirement fund, and started the same fund over.
so yes.. i DO know a bit about unions. judgeing by SOME comments, (especially teacher backers, and union drools) they have NOT done math to their contributions, and put it in realistic terms. ALSO did you know there are plenty of union members, who wish the company they work for was non-union? that, if it were, the company could weed out the poor performers, who have the smarts, but do nothing all day?
one thing my foreman always says to me... "if i had 10 of you, i wouldnt need 30 of them." that is a quote btw.
also... if you want a CEO's wage, get yourself a CEO's job, and hush. why do you cry about it? you are smart enought right? YOUR teacher did a great job teaching, go get one. why cry to no end? its a free country... GO! lol. if you think a teacher should get CEO pay, by all means think of WHO pays your check, and where WE will tell you to go other than to get a CEO position. why cry about a job position that makes more than the one you have, when there are plenty of jobs available out there?
If those faces represent Chicago teachers then by all means stay on strike. The children are not getting any less of an education in the absence of those people.
Absolutely! You could take people off the street and do the students just as much good as those scumbags. After all, students who want to learn will and those who don't want to learn won't. Teachers really make no difference at all. We really ought to make computerized classrooms. Then anyone who is disruptive to the system is expunged and put into boarding school, aka reform school.
So...your statement about kids learning says it all about what teachers are upset about. If you have students that you say yourself "those who don't want to learn" how can a teacher's evaluation be based on their performance? But so many on here just keep saying "fire them all".
Just what don't you like about those faces ProudAmericanVeteran ? Too many brown skinned women for you ?
jpeak, if that's what teachers are striking over (students not wanting to learn) then they will never be happy. And I don't see why raising their pay is going to make any difference. If the government would make school an option rather than a requirement, you would see standardized test scores nearly double. Don't get me wrong, I believe everyone needs a basic education. But after the three R's, everything else is irrelevant to most kids. After, say, sixth grade allow students to choose between continuing academic education or trade school. I believe that would make a lot of difference.
now wait a minute, I thought Dems were all about the unions?? I guess he "evolved". I bet the libs think it is ok for this too.
NO BO IN 13
Sorry Malc....no more vocational schools, they are all gone. You know why? Because of what the teachers are striking about. Having to be forced to teach the test that they and the school will be evaluated on. So tech schools are gone. Doesn't matter that not all kids are going to college. You wanted NCLB and the "test" well this is what you get. This is why teachers are fighting back.
They don't care about the students. This is all about the evaluations. They don't want to be held responsible for not being able to teach. It's about greed.
jpeak, you say that's what the teachers are striking about (i.e. above statement) but that's not what I hear from the media. Which is a whole other set of worthless agitants in themselves. All I'm hearing is more pay and less evaluations.
I agree the teachers strike is a mess and we certainly need to expect more from teachers, but I put most of the blame on the poor graduation rates and test scores on parent, alot of parents have no involvement with their kids lives much less school work, and then they want to put the blame on the school and teachers because their little brat doesnt act right and is a moron.
Gary-3017851,
Agreed on your point. The problem is that many people say the way to fix the problem is to pour more money into system. Chicago is the perfect example of why more money isn't the answer.
I actually have to say I agree with you 100%. That is the path that Spain for certain (maybe others I don't know) takes, and it is quite successful actually. The people who want to learn a trade learn one, and the people who want to continue with academics and become doctors and engineers are fostered and led in that direction.
See, we can agree on something.
This strike need to continue at least for another 3 to 4 months, they need this walking time desperately !!!!
For all you dweebs who think looks make you a better teacher, I suppose you have some awful things to say about hawking you know the guy in the wheel chair big into physics uses a talking machine to communicate, but the fact is he has forget more then you will know in your life time and that life time would be 1000 years long.
Of course Peter, you liberal dweeb, make it about race....It isn't about the race but about the incompetence of the leadership. If you want to debate the issue, fine but there are those of us who will not be led by you race baiters any longer. I don't like Obama because he is incompetent, not because he is black. I feel the same way about Carter and he is white. To me those have been the worst two presidents in the past 50 years. G.W and Lyndon Johnson coming in a close 3rd and 4th. The unions were good in the day but have outlived their usefulness. So Peter, if you want to debate like an adult, come upstairs out of mommy and daddy's basement and put on your big boy thinking cap and bring it.
What does Hawking have to do with these teachers? The POINT is that the students suffer because the teachers do not want pay and tenture decided, in part, to job performance. What private sector job have you ever held that raises were not tied directly to your performance. At 55 and having worked (so far) for 40 years I haven't found one!
A classic example of the dog that bites the hand that feeds them. A Chicago thug politician criticizing the teacher's union. Hey democrats you created the monster, now it has turned on you ....good luck Rahm ...you f'n dbag. I hope they stay on strike for the next 20yrs.
Dogs don't bite the hands that feed them. Only all of these dumbass teachers.
Jealous that your represenatives are spineless and gutless. But I like the "f'n dbag" line. That's shows you have a little spunk, or maybe just full of it.
@Azrael-2240384 ---yeah i want a lying bullying politician in my corner who can steal money form hard-working people, so I can sit on my ass and do nothing --- you must be very proud of yourself Azrael-2240384. Looks like I discovered a 2nd f'n d'bag ......
And what money has he stolen, or are you so blinded by rhetoric that you can't even tell. I'd love to hear those pearls of wisdom that you see so ready to puke out. It'll probably be the funniest joke today.
FIRE ALL OF THEM!
Best idea yet !
You look at their ridiculous list of demands, and the only one that benefits the children is getting textbooks on time (no doubt thrown in at the last minute so they can squawk "we're doing it for the children!"). With a proficiency rate in math and reading of only 20%, it is laughable that these people think they deserve even more than they are getting. Barry Obama, paging Barry Obama, we haven't heard from you yet.
DrMan, what do you think the most important profession is? its teaching you dumb baboon. Would you rather we were like the middle east and were taught by a Koran or a bible for that matter? think how important it is and how hard, why do you think men went to work and Moms stayed at home(kids) they make up the most difficult jobs on earth. Unless you teach or raised kids you should keep your pie hole shut
Sorry I'd have to say the medical profession. If America did better in worldwide stats vs other countries MAYBE I'd agree with you.
Seems par for the course, Obama is a "sue happy" administration so it's only logical that one of his cronies follow suit!!!!!
Dems are finally learning that you can run out of other peoples money!
And 'Denial' is not a river in Egypt.
No way, say its not so....... I'm waiting now to see if there's an executive order to bail out a buddy.
Dismantle the teachers union and board of education. Charters schools are the future.
I agree. Schools should be privatized and the government should provide tuition and expense money to those who want to learn but can't afford it. The students that are uncontrollable should be put in government sponsored reform schools to learn basic education and a trade. Then good children who want to learn can get an unhindered education. Bad children will be taken off the streets. And the government can still infringe upon peoples freedom by still requiring kids to get an education.
No, a voucher system is the answer. Chicago is spending nearly $2000/month, per student for the time that they are in school.
I agree, the voucher system makes more sense. Incentivise the schools to make their money, add a bit more competition, and reduce the power of the teacher's unions so that superintendents can actually fire the teacher's that are dragging down the system. You'd be giving more choice to parents (which hopefully will make them more attentive to their child's education; something intuitively known to improve their child's grades), optimizing student performance, and it will probably end up with better pay for teachers as the schools woo the best to their classrooms. Seems like a win-win for everyone, assuming that the poor neighborhoods don't get left behind.
The problem with your statement is that poor neighborhoods will get left behind. Poorer students have many more obstacles to overcome than middle class or wealthy ones do. In the middle class my kids don't have to worry about being shot on their way to school, or worrying about if food will be available. Growing up poor, those were concerns that I actually had. A great teacher will help the student to realize that they can rise above their situation. Students without that inspiration are left to rinse and repeat, locked where they are. The next father/mother to Bill Gates or Einstein could be living in a poor neighborhood. I will not agree to a system that says, "You aren't worth the time it takes to find out your true worth."
Anyone with just a little education knows that competition is good in any business and let's not fool ourselves.....education is a business!
I'm going to say this with as much respect as possible! Students are getting hurt here but they have been for a while even before this huge issue. I just graduate from high school (in Chicago’s southwest side) where books are still broken TODAY, nearly no supplies are proved for the students and teachers put from their own money for school activities and student projects. You cannot expect someone to teach your children for long hours and not properly pay them. NOW, for the students: 35-40 students and one
teacher in small classrooms where there’s not enough chairs for the students so they use the teachers table to write, half the books missing pages and YES class clowns running a mock not because the teacher cannot control them but simply because YOUR CHILDREN ACT DIFFERENT AT HOME THEN THEY DO AT SCHOOL.Teacher have been spit on, cursed at, even threaten or hurt. When everyone who agaist this protest goes through this, then you can decide if what they’re doing is right! BY THE WAY: when students get hurt in the streets because of the protest blame the police and the major IT'S THERE JOBS TO WATCH EVERYONE'S SAFETY NOT THE TEACHERS!!!!!
Guaranteed pay rises, guarantees to be rehired if laid off, moving away from merit pay... Geez! I wish the private sector operated this way. And a starting salary of almost $50k/year to work only 9 months of the year. And they still don't like the deal. What a joke!
how many other employees out there in the U.s today have any job guarantees? And how many have a job where the average worker/ teacher makes 76,000 per year with no performance evaluation?? none that I know of... There are 23 Million Unemployed people in the U.S. today. Not underemployed or given up, just unemployed. why not have NBC new do a survey and see how many of these unemployed U.S workers would like to make 76,000 a year for a full time job with quarterly reviews!!! I'll tell you how many. Probably 90% right off the bat. Pull a Ronnie Reagan like the air traffic controllers and get rid of them all tomorrow!!
If they want to make that money, they know the way to their closest college. Government loans are guaranteed. Why aren't they doing it?
This statement, "A first-year teacher earns about $49,000, according to the National Council on Teacher Quality; the highest-paid teacher earns $92,227" is misleading. Looking that the CPS website, a first year teacher with a BS makes about $40,500; with a PHD its nearly $45,000. And they top out, after 13 years, at $65,000 to 75,000.
I was once a teacher and I'm married to one. I implore anyone who's complaining about paying a teacher a fair wage, simply "because they only work 9 months" to try teaching. Its a tough and thankless job and, in that nine months, most teachers are working double time. And much of their "time off" is spent preparing for the next year. Or having a summer job just to make ends meet.
This discussion of their pay is really "the politics of envy," as one not so enlightened scholar put it.
and since most, if not all, school districts do not verify applications for free or reduced-lunches, there have been documented cases of highly-paid teachers and school administrators signing their own children up:
http://www.10tv.com/content/stories/2011/05/04/story-columbus-principal-resigns-lunch-allegations.html
I would bet that with over 80 per cent of Chicago's school children receiving free or reduced-lunches, you probably have one of the most fraud-ridden programs since the Food Stamp Give-Away began
Looks like you teachers are being paid handsomely. You guys gripe about your wages to students, and that's like a person griping to customers about their pay. We ALL work hard, not just you. Many of us make a lot less than you and don't have a GOV"T UNION to protect us from employers.
You don't know about PRIVATE INDUSTRY and how so many of us have to work over or do things on our own time. We aren't compensated for every "i" we dot...
Most Americans see you folks as spoiled, and you go on about how you have a "thankless job". So do we. Most of us are struggling, and you want more and more of our money.
Teachers complain about being poor, but I've never seen a poor one. I've seen parking lots full of brand new cars.
Teachers can retire when they are still YOUNG, and they think everyone else gets this option.
Most of us don't have PENSIONS, we have to use our own money or invest our own money. We can't retire at 50.
Teachers think everyone in PRIVATE INDUSTRY is doing really well, and we should fork over our dough to them.
I am all for privatized education and for it NOT getting Federal money, so they don't have that death grip on their neck.
This business of the government controlling education is just wrong.
WORX92, you hit the nail on the head. My daughter has been in education for 15 years. She in now and Ass. Principle. She would be thrilled to make what 2 year teachers are making in IL.
She and I agree that the fools in Chicago have no damn idea how good they have. If their students are failing it is them not the system. Schools here in CO are doing with less and doing better.
I think they should once again remove unions from ALL Government jobs.
I was in the Army for 20 years, gave up my health, became an accountant for 12 years am 59 years old, cannot work anymore. All that for a whopping 26k a year. Most of those teachers will get 2x that at 50.
mindyourpsandqs: don't know what school you and your husband work at but my sister works in an elementary school in OR. She DOES NOT spend her summer working on the following yrs classes, rather she uses what she has scheduled out the current year and changes it if there are changes in the format for the coming year she adjusts accordingly. Maybe she's just better organized than you and your husband. I will say this, like you both she does work extra time after school grading papers and meeting with parents throughout the school year. She's compensated, her words, fairly for her time and not only does she get summers off but a generous winter and spring break. She is in TOTAL disagreement with this strike and yes, she's UNION.
350,000 children getting lessons on extortion. These are just "great" teachers.
Sadly, extortion is a liberal agenda. And libs rule the schools, especially the schools in large urban areas. That's why teachers are always saying that values should be taught at home. Because the teachers, 99% of them, have no values. Not good values anyway.
Does anyone know why one of the main sticking point with this teacher union is the teacher "evaluation" issue?
Anyone care to defend this on behalf of these teacher's union?
You want to have your job performance based on something you have no control over? In the corporate world you have total control for the most part over what you are producing. It would be like your evaluations were based on not what you produced, but what your co-worker, who you trained, produced. Does't matter that they are a drug addict and show up to work late and leave early. Nope, you trained them. Now your response would be well a drug addict would be fired, but you see this is public school where you can't just fire kids. Nope your stuck with them all...smart, motivated, lazy, unmotivated, special needs, low IQ, can't read, is in a gang, is a drug addict, is dying of aids, has no home, has a great home, parents are in prision, parents are CEOs...well you get the point.
jpeak,
But it could be based on test scores and how well your students perform relative to test scores of other teachers in the same school.
Those are excuses. Work in the private sector. Tell your boss that your sales are down because of the economy and see how far that goes.
"You want to have your job performance based on something you have no control over?"
So what mechanism do you propose we use to evaluate teacher performance? I hope your aren't suggesting that teacher performance cannot AND should not be judged because of the behavior of a FEW kids.
JPeak....your post is totally on point my friend! I feel they are asking for some things that as an employee in the private sector I am jealous of....but I make much more than them so I guess it would balance out at the end of the day. Yet, although some things they want I don't agree, I do feel that because we allowed these mother groups to force classrooms to no longer segregate based on motivation and/or intelligence, these teachers are now getting these weirdo classes with too large a mix of student--the good thrown in with the bad and nothing that teacher can do will unmotivate the 'good', and not much they can do to motivate the 'bad'....some of the disruptive kids will have some type of epiphany and make a 360 degree turn, but that is probably less than 5% of this group. So what can she do? I would rather her spend more time with the students that give a damn than ignoring their development for those that want to be the class clown f-up! I wish we can ignore mommies and go back to having AP, honors, average, remedial, special ed...intelligence levels in this order. When mommies complained about the gifted programs and intelligence structuring in the classroom, it was for nothing but plain ole hubris! The kids didn't care at all what classes they were in...the moms were mad because their neighbor got to place that "my kid is on the honor roll at...my kid is in the Mankind gifted program at....." stickers on her Volvo and mom with dumb kid could not. So, that mom decided to mess up everything for the other mom's kid. So now it is politically correct to not make a kid feel bad for being dumb or superior for being smart...so, teachers/gov't schools are supposed to make the smart kids dumb and bring them on the dumb kid's level...when I was in school from mid 80's to class of '97, schools developed the smart kids and worked tirelessly to make the average kids honors, the special ed kids remedial, and the remedial kids average! It all started changing like right before I entered senior high in '93!
I agree. These people have been coddled as government unionized employees for too long.
They constantly complain about their pay, etc.
They should try a life working in the private sector and see how long their boss entertains their complaining.
jspeak: They do have control over the grading system, if a student isn't doing well they can put reasons in their evaluation. I think a 60% graduation rate speaks for itself. My mother (Dottie) would not ALLOW any of her 5 children to come home with lousy report cards and if she went to a teachers meeting and it was less than stellar......well lets just say I couldn't get a ticket off this earth fast enough! And yes, she and my father both worked outside the home but that didn't stop either of them for taking the time to make sure homework and studying was done.
Yes, that is called being a manger in private industry. And yes, you are evaluated on that.
Double post, sorry
Hi:
I am sick and tired of the Mayor's unprofessional and directionless speeches. What is Mayor's vision on the school system? How does he solve the issues raised by the teachers? Is there any vision, mission Mr. Mayor? Or, only election speeches? Good that you left working for Obama. My guess is President Obama is relieved!
GoodMan
His vision over the summer was to lengthen the school day so that it wasn't the shortest one in the nation.
He thought he made a deal with the CTU by increasing the number of teachers by 600 to cover the increased school day.
Regarding the issues raised by the teachers union, I haven't seen one yet that would have a positive effect on the students.
I would be more concerned they will fire everyone of them and hire new people ending the contract. That's how many companies have resolted this type of problem for decades!
Don't worry, Republicans will never be elected in Chicago. That is because they found a way to suck money from the rest of the state to support their pandering in Chicago.
Unfortunately for Rahm, the last Mayor overcommited to the CTU and the bills are now coming due.
How Did Repubs...you are correct in stating that firing them all is what "resolves" these kinds of issues. But that's no resolution at all, it is only sweeping the problems under the rug for someone else to solve later on.
that is the Big reason many companies escape from unions bring their business overseas !
I thought liberals liked unions.
Yes! Fire them all! If most of us walked out on our patients, clients, students. . . for a week, we'd all get fired! Do your job. If your unions are so great, they should be representing you through this, AS YOU WORK. It's not like you are in a sweat shop in 1920, for crying out loud. Do your job or get fired.
Hey STL mike...I'm guessing you're from St. Louis. You can go on down the city and apply for a job teaching in the city school district...they always are looking for people. Their starting pay is not as much, but it's not Chicago prices either. Enjoy your job there. I know, I worked in the district for 2 of the worst years of my life.
It takes years to train a teacher and most teachers are only in their first or second year. The turnover rate is not sustainable. Merit pay? It is at the point that enough teachers just to have warm bodies in the classrooms is a problem at any price. If you won't give them decent working conditions these college educated professionals will work elsewhere for more money.
Where do teachers find a job that pays more money? They are already among the highest paid teachers in the country.
These "college educated professionals" (averaging $76k) have allowed a graduation rate of about 50%. They are incompetent as best, non-caring of the students at worse
I am an IT professional....if I couldn't fix 50% of the computer I worked on, I would be fired.
jw101, your computers are NOT living, breathing willful HUMAN BEINGS, who can make choices as to whether or not they want to be "fixed"!!!! Nor do they talk back or be disrespectful. Nor do you computers wander off because they just don't feel like being there. Bad comparison.
@miklkit: So, what you are admitting is that the Chicago taxpayers are spending about $13000 per student to provide an education and the system is still failing.
Maybe it's time to allow some new ideas. Maybe there should be some competition. Maybe allowing charter schools to compete with the public schools. Maybe allow the parents to have vouchers where they can choose where their children go to school. You are in favor of trying to find solutions that are in the best interest of the children...right!?!
People supporting the CTU simply cannot refute the economics and the results of these programs. Also, none of those teachers could get a hire paying job with better benefits than they already are getting.
Ah, c'mon....please give the teachers everything...and more....then when Chicago goes bankrupt in a couple of years all of these generous contract can go out the window. How come the sanitation workers, police, fire and other union "brothers and sisters" haven't gone on strike to support the teachers? I say...give the teachers until tomorrow morning to report to work. If not...fire them. Yes, it may take a couple of months to hire replacement, but in the long run the city will be far better off. Rahm...do you have the stones? You sure showed Chic-fil-A who's boss. I love Chicago values..LOL
Rahm has sued the teachers union. To what effect? Does this mean he CAN fire them if they don't go back to work? How many will he fire before the rest get back to work, or does he have to fire them all at the same time?
Why are they striking after the schools re-opened?
Why could the strike not have started at the end of last year of school and through the summer?
imo the Chicago school teachers are like extortionists holding education of children at ransom.
Because the teachers were all at their vacation homes....what, they aren't going to strike on their own time!
gurudev, they are striking now to punish their students. The longer their on strike, the more welfare babies there will be.
The Chicago educational system. 91% of the children are of ethnic/racial minorities, the teaching staff is made up of virtually the same percentage... the teachers are among the highest paid in the country with the shortest work day/weeks: Yet, the Chicago children are among the worst educated/illiterate in the country with a high drop out rate. What is wrong with this picture? It looks like the affirmative action programs with culturally sensitive courses and feel-good courses have failed miserably. Get back to the three Rs and fire all the incompetent boobs who are pretending to be teachers and being PC.
Amen
Give them 1 more chance, if they balk, FIRTE THEM ALL.
Chance at what?
16% raise in this weak economy?
How about giving the citizens of Chicago a break from their taxes?
gurudev:
You do funny math. The article says 3%, 2%, 2%, with the possibility of a 4th year at 3%. How does that add up to 16?
Little Johnny collects ants. The first day he collects 100 ants. The next day he collects 3 percent more ants the following day he collects another two percent over the second day and the final day he collects two percent more that the prior day. How many ants does little johnny collect on the final day?
Day 1 - 100 ants
Day 2 - 103 ants
Day 3 - 105 ants
Day 4 - 107 ants
And if little Johnny gets another 3 percent more ants on the last day he would have 110 ants so *technically* over the three days little Johnny would have about 15% more ants than if he didn't increase his catch. And by day 5 he'd have 25% more! But that kind of like saying someone who makes $20,00 a year for 50 years has a million dollar salary. It really plays fast and loose with the numbers but, hey, it's politics.
By all means, let's firte them. It's waht thye desairve. Incidentally, is the "e" in firte silent, rhyming with "hurt," or is it a long "e," rhyming with "dirty"?
I suspect that CPS could not firte them all and then hire 29,000-odd new teachers with the required certifications - which, for those many posters who (1) do not live in Illinois and (2) have no clue as to the certification process, is extremely onerous and exacting.
You do funny math. The article says 3%, 2%, 2%, with the possibility of a 4th year at 3%. How does that add up to 16?
Glad you asked about the 16% - because those raise amounts listed don't include their OTHER raises.. the ones they get for just being employed one more year. Those are call "Step" raises and they get them regardless of the other raises. More throwback to the seniority vs merit pay structure. Which is how we end up with PE teachers who make close to 200K
Striking in this economy...the teachers are the ones that need to be educated....I agree let the strike go on until their all broke and their homes are in forclosure and there all begging to start work again.
Agree it will be a 'learning experience' for laid off teachers.
@ time to live,
I'm with you 100%, but the only ones that get hurt are the kids. This is why teachers should not be allowed to strike and negotiations should only take place on their time. They can in fact destroy kids lives and disrupt entire families and the best we can do in defence is take a few bucks that in turn they get back in negotiations. How is that fair bargaining.
It's nice to see Rahm getting some of what he has been dishing out for years. Sucking up to the unions and now they are _issing on him. Couldn't happen to a more deserving political POS.
People lose track of the notion that labor agreements and strikes are a 50/50 proposition. Both unions and management share responsibility. The blame that the Mayor assigns to the teachers and the blame the teachers assign to the mayor falls as much on the blamer as the blamee (I'm sure this is not a word, but you get my point). Time and energy spent blaming is time wasted in that it is not spent on solving.
Cloverine Fleetwood-1492357,
I may agree with your statement regarding labor agreements between unions and private companies, but it doesn't work with public entities like school districts.
A public entity has a fixed income, based on bringing taxes in from constituents. The amount that can be outlaid to pay for things like teachers pay is budgeted and is pretty immovable. The only way the budget can be increased or decreased is by increasing tax revenue, either requiring a vote or improvements to the economy. Since neither of these happened, there isn't any room for negotiations.
I do believe that these teachers pay all forms of taxes too.
@ edgewatervince,
From a mathematical stand point, after any public employee receives his first check and pays any taxes, from that point on all taxes just recycle through his pay check. That's why government stimulus money to public sector jobs is a horrible idea and why we have out of control debt and the paradox continues.
Bust this union, overpaid, lazy, hand full of give me, Democrats looking for a bigger handout! We test the children, but don't test us... Hire young teachers out of College who are hungry and not over weight with gold teef and extensions! All they are is over paid babysitters, they teach nothing but how to get more by doing less!
Never could figure out how someone would go to 4 years of college to become a teacher. Pay them less and see what you get for teachers.
Make sure they get their back pay ! Striking is hard work and stressful too ! LMFAO
Back pay? Try strike pay. That's right, union members get PAID to strike. It is not as much as their normal paychecks, but they are not starving either.
I wonder how many has filed for unemployment or food stamps since their strike pay won't cover their expenses. Union's are still needed in the private sector but not the public sector. It's at a point where their motto is it's all about me & give me more.