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Chris Carlson / AP file
Soha Yassine attends an event held by Muslim and Coptic Christian leaders in Los Angeles on Monday condemning extremists they say are behind an anti-Islam film, and behind the violent reaction to it in the past week.
American Muslims, sometimes accused of failing to speak out against violence carried out in the name of their religion, have forcefully condemned both the amateurish anti-Islam film that triggered recent riots and protest in the Middle East, Asia and north Africa and the violence that it engendered.
"The American Muslim community has been very forceful and consistent in its rejection of a violent response to this intentionally provocative material," said Ibrahim Hooper, director of communications for the Council on American Islamic Relations, a nonprofit Muslim civil rights and advocacy group.
The low-budget film "Innocence of Muslims," apparently made by an obscure producer in Los Angeles and circulated on YouTube, infuriated many Muslims with its cartoonish portrayal of the Prophet Muhammad. The imagery sparked Muslim protests and violence targeting U.S. diplomatic missions, including a deadly assault on the U.S. Consulate in Benghazi, Libya, that killed four Americans, including the U.S. ambassador to Libya.
In a flurry of statements, press briefings, vigils, media interviews and interfaith events, groups representing American Muslims were quick to condemn the violence, host vigils for the victims and send condolences to the families of the Benghazi victims. But they also condemned the film, which seems deliberately designed to anger Muslims.
In getting the initial response out, there was an opportunity to make two points, said Hooper.
"People here understand that America and Americans shouldn’t be blamed for the actions of a few individuals who produced this hate film," said Hooper. "They should also understand that all Muslims shouldn’t be blamed for the acts of a few individuals that carried out these attacks as well."
The Muslim and Arab American leaders also sought to speak to an overseas audience.
Over the weekend, CAIR released an Arabic-language video appeal aimed at protesters, beseeching them not to blame ordinary Americans and the U.S. government for the film, which was "designed to provoke religious sensitivities and to distract from the positive efforts being undertaken to improve newly-free societies in the wake of the Arab Spring."
Quoting from the Quran, the speaker, CAIR Executive Director Nihad Awad called on protesters "to emulate Islam's Prophet Muhammad, who did not retaliate in kind to personal abuse."
On Tuesday, the organization released a similar video narrated by Imam Agdu Semih Tadese in Yoruba, a language spoken by millions in Nigeria and elsewhere in West Africa.
"It is clear that the motive behind the film is to enrage Muslims and to display a hatred of Islam," according to subtitles on the video.
"However, Muslims need to demonstrate good behavior as our Prophet (peace be upon him) dealt harmoniously with people. I hereby appeal to our scholars to calm down the youth and encourage people to cultivate exemplary behavior as Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) teaches."
Lesson in freedom of speech
These messages and others also attempt to explain freedom of speech to non-Americans.
"We play a significant role in translating for our fellow Arabs and Muslims in the region to let them know what the First Amendment rights are," said Abed Ayoub, legal director for the Arab-American Anti-Defamation Committee, a 32-year-old civil rights organization.
Since the start of protests, Ayoub says ADC has spoken to dozens of Arab journalists in countries where freedom of speech is still an alien concept. The challenge, he said, is to dispel their belief that this film, or any other form of expression, has the U.S. government’s stamp of approval.
"These individuals have been living under dictatorships for decades. Some of them just don’t get it," said Ayoub.
On the steps of Los Angeles City Hall on Monday, Muslim leaders teamed up with elders from the Coptic Christian church to try to reclaim the stage from the presumptive filmmaker — an Egypt-born Coptic Christian named Nakoula Basseley Nakoula — and hotheaded Islamists inciting violence.
The stakes are particularly high in Egypt, where the Copts say they have suffered a recent surge in discrimination and attacks by extremist Muslims. The Copts form a branch of Christians who are believed to have settled in Egypt shortly after the crucifixion of Jesus. Moderates in both religions say they want to return to the relative peace between Coptics and Muslim, populations that have coexisted for centuries.
Man behind anti-Islam film reportedly is Egyptian born ex-con
Photoblog: At site of deadly attack on U.S. consulate, condolence notes from Libyans
'Minds full of disease'
"We cannot allow the actions of a few deceived fanatical individuals to define our communities," said Bishop Serapion of the Coptic Orthodox Diocese of Los Angeles, who took aim at both the desecration of Islam by filmmakers and the violence of protesters.
Handout photo provided by Newsweek Sept. 18, 2012
He was echoed by Maher Hathout, a co-founder of Muslim Public Affairs Council in Los Angeles, which hosted the event.
"These people are neither Muslims nor Copts. Those are people ... with hearts full of hate and minds full of disease," Hathout told the crowd. "Our job together is to leave no room for these voices to manipulate and take over the arena. The voice that should be heard is our collective voices here."
Satirical take
Everyday residents in the U.S. and elsewhere also are seeking to join the debate, using Twitter and other social media to distribute more cosmopolitan and diverse views to the global audience.
Many seized on a Newsweek cover story this week titled "Muslim Rage," which accompanied by an unflattering image of screaming Muslim men. The article by Ayaan Hirsi Ali, a well-known critic of Islam, asserts that while some Muslims condemn the killings in the name of the faith, those voices tend to be marginalized.
"The Muslim men and women (and yes, there are plenty of women) who support — whether actively or passively — the idea that blasphemers deserve to suffer punishment are not a fringe group," writes Hirsi Ali, a Somali-born woman who fled to Holland to escape an arranged marriage. "On the contrary, they represent the mainstream of contemporary Islam."
Newsweek called its Twitter followers to comment under the hashtag "#muslimrage." The subject went wildly viral, but perhaps not in the way that the magazine had in mind.
Some of the tweets are insulting, some defensive, but many of the thousands of tweets seemed to ridicule Newsweek’s portrayal of Muslims and many — seemingly by Muslims — offered a lighter view of their "rage."
A sampling:
"My iPhone compass won't point me toward Mecca. #muslimrage"
"Sudden midseason change of scarf trends; all oblong hijabs go out of fashion. #MuslimRage"
"Brothers are super strict/overprotective bc they don't want not one guy to see you.#MuslimRage"
"When you need to pray at the mall and all the stores with the good fitting rooms are full.#MuslimRage"
"Walks into a building with a backpack on, whole building get evacuated. #MuslimRage"
"Lost nephew at the airport but can't yell for him because his name is Jihad. #MuslimRage."
The humorous response to #muslimrage was refreshing, according to Ayoub of ADC.
"It’s good because it shows maturity," he said. "You know that we are moving past this (stereotype) — that this is not representative of who we are."
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Leave a Comment:
Too little and too late.
obama and this coptic christian guy (the excon from egypt who made the film) and all the muslims burning stuff should have a sit-down over a glass of cold beer, kinda like that black and white guy thing he was pushing into PR. coors light sounds about right. those rocky mountains will calm all the nerves.
I think that this pretty much says it all:
This is the view of Islam from a woman who was born and raised in a Muslim country and most likely has Muslim parents. The problem is that violence is the ingrained response to any perceived slight, no matter how minor. There is also no such thing as free speech in the Muslim world. In the Muslim world you have two choices, you follow the approved version of Islam or you keep your mouth shut. Doing anything else is to put your life at risk. You do not dare question anything related to Islam or Islamic law, if you do you are branded a blasphemer and are likely to be beaten and killed. The idea of free expression and thinking for yourself when it comes to religion is completely foreign to them.
Islam is not a peaceful religion. If it was, why are most non-Muslim religions at odds with Islam. The non-muslim religions live in peace with each other.
How come these savages didn't rampage when Bill Maher made an anti Islam film?
OH, I KNOW.
Maher gave 1 million to reelect 0bama, so that wouldn't be a convenient narrative to blame for 0bama's worthless foreign policy.
That one's pretty funny.
And GTR5, while it may be too little, it's never too late. We can learn to live together, but not if we're constantly putting each other down even when a hand is extended.
@Eric-NY : Well, maybe you should finish your high-school diploma and learn about history then.
Jews and christians have lived for more than a thousand years among muslims, on muslim land, with much less prejudice than non-christians faced in christian land.
Why ? Because according to Islam they are 'people of the book'.
Guess which is the ONLY country occupied by the nazis where the jewish population grew during WW2 ?
Albania, the then only muslim country in Europe, where the muslim population hid its entire jewish population and protected them at the expense of their own life.
Guess where the jews went when christians took over Spain from the muslims ? They followed the muslims back to north Africa.
Millions of christians are still there on land occupied by muslims for centuries. If Islam's goal really was to eliminate them, there wouldn't be millions of them present on these lands for centuries.
So the fact is, you're just ignorant and hateful. Facts prove your wrong.
I'm just wondering where you all got your PhD's in Islamic studies and middle eastern culture? That, or how on earth you have time to talk to all of the billion or so Muslims in the world?
I mean, none of you are qualified to opine on this, as illustrated by your gross generalizations and obvious bias.
First, the attack on the consulate in Lybia was not due to this film. Get real. It was obviously an Al Qaeda style terrorist attack that would of been carried out regardless.
Second, this is not due to Obama. Anti-American sentiment has been alive and well in the middle east long before Obama and will continue long after.
I mean, I know it's a bit more complicated, but have you considered that there are numerous things at work here? Like groups of people who've been cloaked in tyranny and misinformation for a LONG time? Like a U.S. foreign policy that HAS been attacking them on their soil and killing civilians, regardless of whether or not WE thought we had a reason to?
Oh, and then there's that pesky fact, that Obama has droned the @!$%# out anyone considered a terrorist for four years now, but he's an apologist, right?
Your religions have sects that are just as violent and rigid, and look just as horrifically stupid to the rest of us. Get off your soap boxes and do some research.
Getting a little nervous are we....???? Don't want us to practice what YOU preach???
Sarah....This is all they(muslims) need to know...Eat sh$t, and bark at rhe moon...and it could pertain to you to.
Coyote,
I'll make a note of that, but what happens if the moon isn't out? What am I supposed to bark at then?
Just saying, it's really cloudy tonight.
Eric - that's actually not true. There are places all over the Middle East where Christians and Muslims worship together.
Michael, your error is the fallacy of negation. You are doing the equivalent of painting one side of a coin rosy red and claiming the other side is the same, whereas in actuality the other side is blood. Few maintain that ALL of Islam is bad, that Muslims have NEVER contributed to the welfare of human kind. However, there was and is a significant portion - as Ms. Ali notes - that are quickly capable of violence.
I may be wrong, but it appears you also group all religions under the same umbrella, meaning all religions are basically the same. This is just not true based on the edicts of their holy books, proclamations of their leaders, and actions of significant portions of their believers.
Im glad to see American Muslims speaking out against Islamist violence , but I must agree with the first poster it is a little late in the game, but better late than never.
They get it, they get it straight from the Islamist Imams who take advantage of their ignorance. This is one reason we have helped liberate those that could go against us, because they "just dont get it". We are not out to harm anyone,unless theyn have plans to harm us, or have harmed us. These protest are ramped up by Islamist spreading lies about Americas true feelings toward Muslims.
What, one out of 10,000 Muslims can hold up a poster resenting violence in their faith, and that's not enough?!
Coral,
Judging from these posts, I would say that these Muslims have a fairly good grasp on America's feelings about them.
All I've heard since 9/11 are things like, "Well if Muslims would just speak out against terrorism, we wouldn't think they're ALL bad".
Well here they are doing that and our response is to say, "Too little too late"?
Listen, even though I find this movie reprehensible, I will defend to the death this douchbag's right to make it...
BUT, when you say something to piss someone off, you can't whine that they're pissed off.
Is violence the answer, no, and I THOROUGHLY CONDEMN IT. But the violence stems from a lot more then simply this movie, and those who are merely protesting it, aren't doing anything more then ALSO exhibiting freedom of expression.
The acts of violence and the acts of protest are two different balls of wax.
So we can express our disdain for their religion, but they can't express their disdain for our disdain?
Michael: Are you aware of Albania's heritage? The reason why there are so many muslims there?
Have you heard of George Kastrioti? A former muslim who liberated the Roman Catholics who were living there in the year 1443. It was only after his death (1478) that the Turks regained control of the land( all muslims) who ruled it until 1912 where they IMPOSED islam. That is the only reason why they now have a muslim majority.
Out of that many I'm sure, not all muslims would have condoned the killing of Jews. Just like not all christians condoned the killing of Jews in Europe. But for you to say it is common among muslims is completely false.
Still waiting for " American" muslims to speak out on the 9/11 attack!!
What? A few bad people made the film. A few hundred thousand Muslims resorted to murder and violence. That was a very lame response in my opinion. That is not a few.Get a grip and get real.
Really????? American Muslims abhor violence? Since when? do we not read about how many members of the American Muslim community are engaged not only in terrorist activities within the United States but are also the major financial backers of Muslim world-wide terrorism? Are we not constantly reminded about the number of so-called American born Muslim's that have taken terrorist training and are fighting US armed forces in every Muslim nation in the world. No there is not truth to anything that espouses Muslim as peace loving.
Actually Sarah everyone has the right to express their opinion. No it does not take a PhD to recognize Islam for what it is - untold millions of slaughtered, raped, tortured throughout every country in the world can testify to the peace loving Muslims that have wrought such misery and suffering upon the world. Obama is just one more example of the do anything lie about everything push by that sickeningly corrupt religion attempt to dominate and enslave the world - plain enough for you moron???
Joe-1926155: They have. Many times. I guess you weren't listening or cared enough to listen - or maybe you didn't think they were sincere.
Ternan: There are very few American Muslims engaged in terroristic activities. Some of those who have been arrested have been immigrants who, more than likely, came here TO engage in that activity (sleeper cells). The few that turned to terrorism are but a drop in the bucket compared to those who are peaceful and abhor the violence. There have been more Christian Americans who have engaged in terroristic activities than homegrown Muslims engaging in terrorism.
Sarah, you make some good points but then end with this:
Just as violent? No. Not even close. Even those despicable wackos (all 50 or so of them) in the Westboro Baptist Church of Topeka KS don't physically attack, let alone murder, those whom they condemn.
In what other religion on planet earth do congregants pour out of their houses of worship and go on violent, sometimes murderous rampages? Only One. Islam.
I am addressing Americans only.
The Muslims we have here in Dearborn and other places, may be good folks, but we will not know that until the baloon goes up will we? But the form of Muslim invasion is called Apostolic Invasion. It is another trick they learned from the invading Roman Catholic Christians of a thousand years ago. Send in the nice guys, get acceptance, create disention as your numbers increase, then seize power. The formula is a good one that we recently have seen in Egypt as the Brotherhood came into power. They are burried into Egypt now like tick on a hound dog.
As I understand it they were invited to pray at the DNC on the last evening of the convention. That will explain some of the huge money Barry seems to have access to. Good ole oil money from radical contributers.
Recently a Muslim couple was tried and conviced in England for killing their children for honor killing. We also had the same thing in Texas recently. As I see it the tenants of Islam does not allow for them to assimilate into a society. There are no rewards here on earth, only the rewards offered after death.
I can quote many similar verses from the Old testament , but if you check the Internet, you will not see GOVERNMENTs of Christains executing people for herasy or critisism of a religion. However, the same is not true for Islam. People are being put to death every day somewhere in a Muslim country.
Western society has fough many wars to remove the Divine powers of the Pope and our own version of Puritan radicals.
Muslims are the cancer of world religion today because they are working to destroy the host (Humanity). Learn about their cultist religion and then ask yourself if they can be compared to any other modern day religion.
They are unique in many ways, so I will list a few.
They are mostly illeterate and are kept so for a reason. Their concept of the world is controlled to a point that they cannot read and learn other ideas in any context. Therefore depend on someone to tell them what to believe.
Their religion is so dominating that if a MAN should want to and try to become more humane and embrace the ideas of compassion and tolerance, their peers will literally kill them as well as their families.
Their religious doctrine is so controlling that Mob mentality is often encouraged to unite the people in a common goal to kill all the unbelievers(Infidels) and sinners (Believers). That is why we can
see a group of a hundred men shouting and chanting "God's Will" as a husband murders his wife after she was raped by another member of their religion. In terms of Traditional Western values, the Rapist would have been
killed by the husband or at the least faced legal proceedings. But the wife would have not been put to death certainly.
Their Islamic Laws say that a woman who is raped will die because it was her duty to die rather than be raped because she has committed adultry and fornication. Thus their logic says that she must have fornicated and enjoyed the act, (Typical Male thought process, minus western morals).
If a young female is raped they require, by law, she marry the rapist and if pregnant raise his bastard child. She is for all intents and purpose a slave to the Mongrel Criminal for the rest of her miserable life. However, the man has the right to kill her or throw her away in disgrace by the same laws that doomed her as soon as she was unfortunate enough to be born an Islamic woman.
Thousands of years ago the Christian faith in all of its glory did many of the same things, but wars and conflict has taken away their propensity to commit crimes in the name of God. The same is true for the Hebrews, but never forgetting that All of this religious nonsense originated from the Hebrew laws, most of which was written by Moses and Abraham.
As the world seems to be gravitating towards a more tolerant, gentle means of coexisting with each other (politically), the Muslims are trying to drag the world back to the ancient times of barbarity and history written in blood.
Slavery was common in many forms in the ancient times. Have you ever wondered about Eunuchs? I have . Jesus was once asked about them and he responded with a good description in Matthew 19:12.
The point is as we look at the Muslims who seem so afraid of Women as if every one of them are the representation of Biblical Evil that they blame their own weaknesses and sinful ways and thoughts onto women, or so it seems. Their concept of "right vs Wrong" seems to revolve around this notion that conveniently supports their manly deviancy, and poor self esteem.
The last point: They believe in a Predestined future so everything has already been written. This belief is, in part, the reason Women follow the religion. They are predestined to be dominated by men and all the terrible things that will happen is because "God wills it". This belief also gives rise to all the barbarous ways of the true
believers. "If it already written, then I must be doing God's Will."
When the true believers dragged the 18 people out of a hotel and chopped off their heads for dancing and listening to music, they were just doing what God had already ordained to happen. How convenient is that
for a believer?
People you all need to decide whether it is raining or whether somebody's bladder is being emptied all around you, when the liberal press tries to convince you to tolerate the actions of a whole Religion, not just a few bad apples as some would have us believe. If it were just a few radicals, the rest of the civic minded people of their faith would drop onto them like a bag of Hammers from heaven.
If these Muslims want to become Americans are they going to swear allegance to the American Constitution that Guarentees freedom to all Americans. That means all Freedoms.
Would the Muslims in Dearborn please stand up and allow us to hear your pledge of allegiance? If not , please leave and make room for people that want to be American.
Lazarus
And again, a pretty good post with a silly end from Sarah as follows:
The issue is not "expressing disdain," the issue is about MURDER and violent, physically harmful and destructive rampages.
Freedom of expression does not include the right to destroy and kill, get it?
Michael-1495965
Nice try, but your comment is claptrap. There were moments of tolerance in Muslim societies but that always depended on the whim of the leader at any given time. The verse about respecting the people of the book is Quran 29:46. However, if we are to weigh into the balalnce the verses that condemn Christians and Jews, such as Quran 5:51. But if one can judge a religion by the action of the followers, then they must turn to the recorded events written in the Hadith.
There were once thriving communities of Jews and Pagans around the city of Yathrib (Medina). Those communities were made extinct during the life of Mohammad, by forced exile, and by genocide or forced conversion. Also it is recorded in the Koran and Hadith that a conquered people who do not convert must pay the Jizyah, or extortion tax.
Egypt at the time of the invasion of Islamic armies in 639 AD was 100% Coptic Christian. Coptic was the language of ancient Egypt. There is a sole contemporary account of the suffering that the early Copts endured by the new armies of Islam. A generation after the invasions John of Nikiû writes of the contemptuous treatment of Coptic people by the Arabic conquerers. The discriminatory taxation worked in favor of the Muslims and now the Copts are a 10% minority in their own country.
Ask the Buddhists of Afghanistan about the tolerant treatment by Muslims. Afghanistan was once largely Buddhists. Pakistan was a mix of Hindu and Buddhism, and Persia was Zoroastrian. Turkey was Byzantine Christian and Greek, and so was North Africa. All these cultures were extinguished by "Islamic tolerance".
There were individual leaders of the Muslim persuasion who were very tolerant, but by the doctrine written in the Koran and Hadith, it is encumbant upon the believer to kill, plunder, subjugate or terrorize the unbeliever.
In the words of an early Muslim conquerer:
Tabari IX:69
LARRY553.....
Good Post!
I saw the trailer and thought it was pretty funny. I think this could be a cult film classic. Where can I see the whole movie?
Europe is really struggling because they tolerated the nice Muslims until they were so overwhelmed, they couldn't reclaim their countries. All of the rapes in Oslo over the past 5 years have been by Muslim men. All of them. Teen girls in Sweden have patented their own anti-rape chastity belts to deal with the problem - one that can't be openly described because Sweden is subject to hate speech laws. Britain has 85 sharia courts. Germany's Angela Merkel complained "Multikulti ist gescheitert" (multiculturalism has failed) to describe their problems with the Muslim invasion. Of course, our media immediately compared her to Hitler, hoping to embarrass her into silence. The reason it failed is because the Muslim men marry several wives, have 18 children, and expect the larger society to support them all on welfare. The Muslims force non-Muslims around them to live in dhimmitude. Remember the Norway shooter? That was his primary complaint (from the city of Oslo, where 100% of the rapes over the past 5 years have been by Muslims). They attack people on busses and commit honor killing of their daughters in their own backyards, then go about their business like they did nothing wrong. Many courts in these countries have grown used to holding Muslims to an entirely different set of rules and values, so they can murder their wives and daughters, because they expect to be able to do this. They make a fuss because there are swimsuits at the pool. Some of the famous racists of Europe are gay, because they are tired of being attacked by Muslims, and women are tired of being attacked for failure to wear a burqa. While I don't think we should harass American Muslims, I definitely think we need to send the message loud and clear to our government that we have enough of them here, already. We shouldn't need another 9/11 to tell us that.
The person(s) who made the film obviously did it to offend Muslims and thought because they lived in America they could hide behind our laws to keep them safe; meanwhile innocent people abroad are bearing the brunt of the anger of the Muslim community. I believe the person(s) behind this film KNEW there would be violence and should be held accountable! I think they should be shipped back to the middle east to face the consequences of their actions.
Sarah, just how do plan on "defending to the death" the right of the film maker to make this film? You probably shouldn't make such sensational comments, because you know as well as I do that you have no clue what "defend to the death" means. Are you even capable of doing this? I think not!
I wondered how long it would take for the first Muslim hater to post, it only took until post 1.2...yes, this is sarcasm. For the last few weeks there have been hundreds of Christian posters here who start out with that same line; I wondered.....
That line is so rehearsed that you WONDER if it isn't some paid troll whose only job it is, is to post such generic lines. There were the paid 9-11 deniers/posters here, the paid Wall Street defenders here..and the list goes on. Dead giveaway on all of them - they are sooo generic.
Post with your own thoughts...I WONDER if you can do that. You didn't WONDER anything - trolls.
Joe,
Maybe you haven't been paying attention for the last 11 years. Muslims in America have and continue to speak out against the perpetrators of 9/11 and anyone else who would commit violence in the name of religion. It doesn't seem to get as much publicity as the people complaining that Muslims don't speak out simply because it is not sensational enough for the evening news.
None of us here are really all that interested in what your girlfriend told you last night...
Holy Jebus, Christians attacking Muslims about their religion being violent.
"Hey pot, you're black too you know!"
Or what was it that fellow who lived long ago said?
Hypocrites.
Still waiting on you tell us what happened to all those christians who began bombing the embassies last week. ( crickets) .......Yeah, we all know how christians are soooooooooo violent. ( sarcastic)
Were all you Moslem-haters born yesterday? Christians don't kill others over religion?? What planet do you live on? Except for a few years recently, Catholics and Protestants have been killing each other, for the last 300 years, in Northern Ireland. And, many Americans bought bullets for the killing!! They bombed, and burned, and shot each other, over who was a better Christian!!
Right here in the good old USA, we have slaughtered and massacred like savages anywhere! Want to learn about Mormons in Utah slaughtering 120 (or more) settlers? Never heard of it? Google "Mountain Meadows Massacre", and learn. Or, refresh your memory about the massacre of native Americans, at "Wounded Knee". Killing people over small differences is as "American as Apple Pie"! We've lynched black men, because somebody thought one of them whistled at a white woman!! Closer to where I live, in Florida, the whole population of a small "Black" town (called "Rosewood") was wiped out, and the town was burned to the ground, less than a century ago!
The Moslem world doesn't have the democratic traditions that we have, and there is really no acceptible reason for the rioting, and violence. But, given our history, and the rampant fundamental religious minority that we have, it seems to me, we are in no position to be criticising somebody else's behavior!
Thank you Big Ed for one of the ONLY sane posts I've seen here tonight. The Rosewod tragedy is one so many do not recall and there was an amazing film starring Jon Voight by the same name about 15 years ago. It, like "Mississippi Burning" had a real impact on me. Our country is back there AGAIN with THIS behaviour.
Let's burn all of our religious books and start concentrating on the welfare of all humanity here and now. If the gods are irate with us, then they can come down here and we can fight them over the future of mankind! Somehow, I doubt they will! Screw the gods!!!
Big Ed: Are you kidding? Have you never heard of the World Trade Center bombing in 1993? Or the World Trade Center bombing in 2001? Or the Ft Hood Incident?
All of these took place in the US; where the seat of democracy( or as you put it "democratic traditions") was available to each and everyone of these terrorists!
Don't defend muslims when you say we shouldn't be criticizing someone else behavior when it happened in the US and not in a third world country. That's just your arrogance.
I guess it doesn't matter to muslims where they are.
As an Arab I know about the outcry against violence. It has been that was for a LONG LONG time. HOWEVER, Newstations don't give a @!$%#. They would rather show people car bombs going off. Peace is not interesting. People dying and getting blown up is. Something that stirs up hate gets views.
"Still waiting for American Muslims to denounce the 9-11 terrorists"? Well the only reason that you could possibly still be waiting is that you ignorance an hatred has mad you deaf. Those denunciations came out as fast as any after 9-11, as they have after every act of extremist Muslim terror. Do a simple google search to verify this, there were many, and immediately after the attack.
But, there has not been a right-wing Christian condemnation of this recent film that is inflaming the Middle East, not one. I have seen right wing so called Christian leaders dance around how they can not disavow the hatred and lies of this film, saying BS like, "well, I have not seen it, I can't judge." The excuse of a coward that really wants to agree.
Are you chicken @!$%# conservatives saying that you agree with these outright lies?
Well, if os, understand there is an historical precedent for who you are, and you will not be flattered by what it is. And understand this, you always lose. You heroes are not admired, except by a few skinheads and other deviants.
Big Ed, seems to me you are only interested in denouncing everyone that has a belief. You use this platform to sow your seed of discontent for organized religion. Then you subjuct us to your paraphrasing from context of the true history of these events you have described. I am not suprised by any of this, for I have seen many of your post in previous articles. And it is no mystery YOU are an athiest, and you have no morality to post your view even though it has no signifigance or bearing on the problem we all are experiencing. This might fly at superultra sonic speed over your head, and that is how do we explain to Isamic believers, to stop the violence. Let other people live how they see fit, be they ATHIEST, agnostic, Christian, Buddist, Hindu etc. etc... Why should they have the only right to exist on this planet, and why is thier point of view the only view? Without have them terrorize the masses? In my case they are not scaring me, I feel sorry for them. Because they are ignoran to th fact that people are wise to their antics and are growing weary. In my opnion, they are aquiring some really bad Karma. And when it comes around, people of other bakgrounds are going to be VERY reluctant to come to assistence. Then and only maybe they will realize their lack of judgement. So Big Ed(EGO) save your assanine posts for appropriate platforms!
Jon, why should there be any denounciation about the film from anyone? Certain Christian groups were upset over movies like the DaVinci code and The Passion of the Christ. Did anyone from the film industry denounce the films? Did any Left wing organization come out against it? At it's inflamatory depiction of Christ and the Christian religion? Did the Christians mob in the streets with violence and protest against them?
There have been reports that say that violent movies trigger violence in our young people. Does that stop Hollywood from making violent movies?
Of course Not. It's called freedom of speech. Whether you like it or not.
Actually I'm surprised to see even this much from the So called "Moderate American Muslims". They as a group are generally quiet when violence erupts. You might see a blurb from one group or another but from the Leadership, no none at all.
Muslims who had nothing to do with these attacks do not owe anyone an apology for them.
Gotta love how the xenophobes, Christian fanatics, and closet racists scream and rant and rave "Where are the moderate Muslims condemning the violence?!?" Then when they're shown to them it's "too little, too late."
Just get it out of the way and admit you're violating the book so many of you claim to follow, casting stones all over the place while pretending you're without sin, and that your religion and the orders that follow it are not subject to the failings of human nature.
I hope that if or when Christ returns, the first thing he does is condemn the thousands, if not millions of hate-filled people that hide behind the faith that worships him.
There ARE still plenty of genuinely good Christians out there, mind you, but the obnoxious haters are giving the rest of you a bad name.
Whoa, they've been saying this since the film and the embassy attacks. Where have you been?
"This film really is cheap. It's low quality, low rate, and it really should've been ignored," said Dawud Walid with the Council on American Islamic Relations. "It's just a shame that in Libya that there's a small group of violent people who have escalated a situation. We don't like the contents of the film at all, but the last prophet of Islam, Muhammad, taught us that we're supposed to repel evil with righteousness and good behavior," he continued. "Prophet Muhammad would not sanction the wanton violence or the death of any innocent people."
They have been. Google 'Muslim reaction to 911' and you'll see. There's been plenty.
While you're reading it, take a good long look at who wrote what you're reading.
'Believe none of what you hear and only half of what you see." --Ben Franklin
Shaykh Abdul Aziz al-Ashaikh (Grand Mufti of Saudi Arabia and Chairman of the Senior Ulama):
"Hijacking Planes, terrorizing innocent people and shedding blood constitute a form of injustice that can not be tolerated by Islam, which views them as gross crimes and sinful acts."
Mufti Nizamuddin Shamzai, Pakistan:
"It is wrong to kill innocent people. It is also wrong to Praise those who kill innocent people."
From CAIR Canada, a Canadian Muslim group;
"Islam respects the sacredness of life, and rejects any express statement or tacit insinuation that Muslims should harm innocent people. Despite our disagreement with certain American policies, we must never abuse the concept of Jihad to target innocent civilians."
"Jihad, which literally means 'struggle,' has an internal, societal and combative dimension. The internal dimension of Jihad encompasses the struggle against the evil inclinations of the self, and the spiritual project to adorn the self with virtues such as justice, mercy, generosity and gentleness. The societal dimension includes struggling against social injustice and creating a communal identity based on charity, respect and equality. Finally, the combative aspect of jihad is only to be used as self-defense against aggression or to fight oppression, and, even then, to be observed with strict limits of conduct that preserves the life of innocents and the sanctity of the environment. Moreover, this latter type of Jihad can only be declared by a legitimate, recognized religious authority."
"Using the concept of Jihad to justify harming the innocent is contrary to the letter and spirit of Islam. We condemn any violence that springs from this misguided interpretation."
From Muqtedar Kahn, Asst Professor of Political Science, Adrian College:
"Militias like the Taliban have allowed their hate for the West to override their obligation to pursue the welfare of their people."
"The culture of hate and killing is tearing away at the moral fabric of the Muslim society. We are more focused on 'the other' and have completely forgotten our duty to Allah."
"Islam is not about defeating Jews or conquering Jerusalem. It is about mercy, about virtue, about sacrifice and about duty. Above all it is the pursuit of moral perfection. Nothing can be further away from moral perfection than the wanton slaughter innocent people."
Imam Kutty from Jami Mosque:
"Let us make no mistake about it: Today, Muslims have no enemy greater than fanatics in their midst...Let us know that fanaticism is ignorance; it is nothing but sickness and bigotry; let us know that fanaticism is opposed to both scripture and reason...We Muslims therefore condemn these barbaric attacks against innocent people."
"We condemn them unconditionally; we condemn them because it is opposed to reason and revelation. It is contrary to the fundamental principles of Islam which teach the sanctity of life. Make no mistake about it, we Muslims cannot be Muslims unless we affirm the sanctity of life in all forms."
"Let every Muslim know that there is no room in Islam for fanaticism, for hatred, for racism, for terrorizing innocent people, for indiscriminate killing, even in a state of war."
"Let us Muslims shoulder our responsibility in this crisis facing our society by distancing ourselves from all those who have perpetrated such a heinous and dastardly crime. I appeal to every Muslim to cooperate with the authorities in bringing the culprits to justice. Let no Muslim harbor such criminals in their midst; doing so is violating the laws and values that we cherish dearly in our religion."
Under what laws or what religion is it stated that anyone has right not to be offended? Is the right to not be offended a birth right? Is there any such right? No. It logically does not exist.
I was curious and I went to do a google search. You got this from Liberty News Online,. A newspaper in Norway explained the report to which the statistics were referring. Here's what it actually says:
In May 2011, the police published the report "Rape in the global city." Of the 189 reported rapes were 21 assault rapes. Only five of the 21 assault inflicted ones were solved, and these were committed by persons with non-Western backgrounds. Two of the five had psychiatric diagnoses. In the 16 cases that were not solved, a majority of victims describes the perpetrators as ethnic Norwegian.
By separating the cases were the perpetrators were not identified, "all" assault rapes could be attributed to men of foreign origin, and a number of of right-wing sites did so quickly.
Teen girls in Sweden have patented their own anti-rape chastity belts to deal with the problem - one that can't be openly described because Sweden is subject to hate speech laws.
It's been described many times by the girls who invented it. it's basically a bent attached to underwear that needs two hands to unbuckle before you can get it off--the premise here being that the rapist won't be able to hold you down and try to unbuckle it at the same time.
As for the problem: there is a blogger who calls himself 'Fjordman' who has written about the problem extensively. However, to put this in perspective, what he writes is a blog, and cannot be taken for written-in-stone fact. Upon a quick skim of many of his other writings, he comes across as something of a Rush Limbaugh/Glenn Beck type of personality, using political inflammation to gain readership.
Here's what I found in regards to that:
The tribunals, working mainly from mosques, settle financial and family disputes according to religious principles. They lay down judgments which can be given full legal status if approved in national law courts.
However last year Justice Minister Bridget Prentice told MPs that 'if, in a family dispute ...the parties to a judgment in a sharia council wish to have this recognised by English authorities, they are at liberty to draft a consent order embodying the terms of the agreement and submit it to an English court.
'This allows judges to scrutinise it to ensure it complies with English legal tenets.'
Decisions from sharia tribunals can be presented to a family court judge for approval with no more detail than is necessary to complete a two page
form. The sharia courts in the Muslim Arbitration Tribunal are recognised as courts under the Arbitration Act. This law, which covers Jewish Beth Din courts, gives legal powers to a tribunal if all parties involved accept its authority.
First, it's never too late to speak up. Second, I saw this article on a different site last week...it just took this site that long to actually publish it.
Fact; islam and freedom for all cannot co-exist
Fact; islam and Christianity cannot co-exist
Fact; muslims should leave America
Fact Jerry, the WTCs came down in controlled demolitions. The buildings were rigged well before the planes hit and it was Jews from Israel that set those charges. The Zionist controlled media is printing inflammatory stories about Muslims, every chance they get.
It was America that attacked Iraq, killing well over 100,000 and destroying the country, despite the fact that no Iraqi had participated in 9/11. The WMD was fabricated in the Pentagon by neoconservative Jews, such as Paul Wolfowitz and Douglas Feith, who planned and sold the Iraq war.
Bottom line is we killed over 100,000 Muslims in Iraq alone, for reasons that have proved to be untrue. Iraq was never even a remote threat to the USA. Do you think they might have a reason to be pissed?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5A3dW_gUwOg ---Controlled demolition
Molten Heat -- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8YaFGSPErKU&feature=related
British Newman -- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MgABDdU7yD8&feature=related
@adam - you have to open your eyes and ears and you will see that Islam condemns the killing of civilians - and they did speak out after 9/11 !
There were many more condemnations on this page - I'm just running out of room
http://kurzman.unc.edu/islamic-statements-against-terrorism/
@Charles the Hamerhead
Actually - The Taliban blew up those statues, the Taliban put more restrictions on women and men who were Muslim - and who gave the Taliban the guns to do this? Look a little closer to home - the US let the Taliban run rampant in Afghanistan - until we couldn't get them to be out friends for the oil pipeline of our dreams - so now we deal with the Taliban like your regular back alley, local drug dealer - you know he's there, you know it's not right BUT you grew up with him....
It must be killing the followers of the moon god living in America, not being able to share in the traditional rioting and murdering.
BK&SC writes:
I didn't post anything about Muslims speaking out or not speaking out, nor make any reference to 9-11. If you would like to address something that I wrote then please quote. Thanks.
@adam - I APOLOGIZE
I MEANT TO RESPOND TO JOE-1926155 I APOLOGIZE - I HAD TO SCROLL SO FAR DOWN, I PICKED THE WRONG NAME - you did not say what I accidentally attributed to you! I'm sorry for my mistake.
Wow from all these comments I would swear it was the Christians out there rioting and burning Embassy's. Congrats to American Muslims for standing up to extremist
hs321
Under what laws or what religion is it stated that anyone has right not to be offended? Is the right to not be offended a birth right? Is there any such right? No. It logically does not exist.
Check out Islams blasphemy laws...you will get executed if you offend Mohammad and the religion of Islam....
Sarah: "All I've heard since 9/11 are things like, "Well if Muslims would just speak out against terrorism, we wouldn't think they're ALL bad".
Well here they are doing that and our response is to say, "Too little too late"?
Could not agree with you more. There is really NO pleasing some people. The worst part is these people are doing the same--or worse--to the Muslims they despise. No wonder many Muslims hate the USA. It's the same hatred.
2 wrongs NEVER = 1 right. NEVER!
For all you who consider yourselves "Christian," I have a question: what would Jesus do?
Love thy enemies. Turn the other cheek. If you don't practice this--what makes you so different from the Muslims you criticize? What?
Larry: "If a young female is raped they require, by law, she marry the rapist and if pregnant raise his bastard child."
Funny--but I've heard some (not all but some) Republicans say the same thing. Maybe not the "marry" part--but the go through the pregnancy part. Guess then they might allow adoption. Very "big" of them, huh? Unless you're the victim, of course.
Weird how "extremists" often have more in common than not, huh? And they often despise each other.
Things that make you go "hmmmmmmm...."
Michael-1495965, you're suspended for a day for violating #1 of the Code of Honor.
...
COYOTEHUNTER, you're suspended for a week for violating #1 and #5 of the Code of Honor.
It's not just the Moslems. We have our own -- home grown -- religious fanatics as well. I would feel much safer if those who call upon their own notion of an "almighty" in order to punish others who do not share their beliefs would simply experience some mind altering process that would leave them tolerant of decent human beings. Perhaps then we could live without so much difficulty and blood-letting.
If there really DOES exist an almighty being, it might smile [or whatever almighty beings do to show approval].
Islam law is about as diffuse as any other body or religious work. Sure, you can find someone who tells yo that this is Islamic law, but you can just as easily find someone who tells you that it is not.
The same is, in fact, true of pretty much all of the comments above who have tried to draw an inference about the quality of Muslims from their laws and/or their behavior. Their have been Muslim saints who have been the most admirable of men and women, Muslim scientists and philosophers with amazing wisdom and insight and Muslims dictators who were as evil as anything Christianity has spawned.
They are just people. Anyone who tells you otherwise is selling something.
In general, my personal belief is that we need to be rid of Islam, but that is also true of Christianity and all other religions. But I am not an evangelical atheist, my belief is that mankind will evolve towards atheism of its own accord; it does not need to be preached at anyone.
Only Buddha can save you all!!!
On the one hand it's about friggin time. On the other hand, like GTR5 says it is a bit late.
I just wish people could understand what seems obvious... Freedom of Speech and Freedom of Religion are protected by the U.S. Constitution and are a part of our lives and expectations, but these are NOT worldwide concepts understood by every country, much less accepted by them. What we say and do here on U.S. soil or under the U.S. flag in other countries may be our right to do so HERE, but by no means are other blessed with such great powers in their societies or capable of understanding that such things are even possible. With great power comes great responsibility, and when a few rogue individuals with their own agendas choose to put our country in a bad light, endanger the lives of our fellow Americans here and overseas with their rhetoric, and then run like the cowards that they are while the U.S. has no choice but to protect them... well, the phrase STFU comes to mind.
For the last few decades Muslims have been making virulent and nazis type videos all over the world.You can see them on youtube and on Muslim networks.They are equally as offensive as this amateur piece of anti Muslim job that looks like a highschool freshman film But the Muslims instead of saying" wait a minute it´s not like that go beserk and in nazi and mafia style start murdering people.Why can´t they just brush it aside and defend their religion verbally.No "sticks and stones can break my bones" for them .They just go for their mafia tongues and mafia arms and start shooting up the place.Is this religion? This is a brutal ideology. Individual Muslims may believe in peace..just as many Germans didn´t believe in Hitler.But nazism had to be defeated just as Islamic fascism and terror have to be defeated.If it defeats us .just as if nazism had defeated us,the whole human civilization will be lost.Does anyone have doubts about this.How much longer are we going to be bullied by Isalmic mafia types and have our nose rubbed in it? How much longer??
Mohammad was a pedophile - not rumor, not a lie just a fact that the man was infatuated by little boys and girls.
He was a road bandit, and a homocidal sociopathic narcissistic fascist maniac.
His father should have pulled out and shot that demon seed into the dirt where it belonged. It would have prevented hundreds of millions of crimes against humanity.
This is just a front. They are just hoping that people over here don't start burning down "muslim" interests in this country. Burning down mosques etc. We aren't going to put up with too much more sh!t before we start attacking places of worship over here. In virginia, someone vandilized over 20 cars in a parking lot of a mosque. Busting out windows, etc. No one was seen leaving messages saying "In the Name of Christ" either. this is 2012 not 1012or 912, get a grip. Mess with us we will bring it 10
If the so called muslim Americans really believe they can live in a sociaty under the religious laws of their beliefs then they must obey and except the laws of America. They cannot expect to come here and set up their on islamic court of laws. If they continue to live under sharia law then they need to leave America as we will not tolerate the murdering of children because they date someone who does not fit their religious law. We do not cut off the hands of thiefs, we put them in prison. While I support capital punishment, I do not support chopping a persons head off as a way to do it. It has been proven from times past that a persons brain still lives a short time after this happens.
ralph H please take your meds so your mom will quit calling me
Forever Waves of Grain banned, rereg of zipperthecat. Multiples Speed Square and WildCat-32 also banned.
18 deleted, Austin Mom-3737347 smearing all Muslims and '[their] tiny little minds'. Lose the extrapolation bigotry - you're suspended for a week for violating #5 of the Code of Honor.
wlee-950886 banned, didn't rehab.
Honestly taking a public stand at all takes courage for American Muslims.....they are well aware that a lot of the country hates them and blames them for the violence. I am glad that they did this and are also talking back to Muslims overseas.
It's not courage... muslims are taught to deceive the enemy - that is what they really are doing... keep speaking that the quran is about peace, then shoot you in the back...
They can never be trusted as long as their iman's keep preaching hate at their mosques... which is a daily occurrance... they follow blindly like sheep... do they know that murder is a sin and punishable by just about every country around the world...
Accordingly, the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him*) also advised Muslims to be honest and truthful. Some examples of hadith which address lying include:
OOOOOOOH so they said the book was truthfull so it must be because nobody ever lies hahahahah!
what a friggin joke some people will believe anything too funny
Richard: Except when you are lying to what who you consider an enemy: For example, "Al- Taqqyiya" covered in the Hadith 5:59.369
Not exactly sermon-on-the-mount type of stuff is it?
This may very well fall under that category where lying is percieved as permissible.
What did they do ?? A few hundred carried a few signs - just what does that possible mean to you when we have over 15,000,000 Muslims in this country. Where are the millions in the street protesting the violence - we see thousands in the streets doing the violence.
Hey Richard, don't forget the Hadith that has Islam's prophet Muhammad saying "He who changes his religion, Kill Him." [from the most highly "authentic" collection of al-Bukhari].
What other religion on planet earth has a DEATH SENTENCE for those who decide for whatever reason to follow a different path in life? Only One. Islam.
Richard 195......
Study Zaki Ameen a former Iman and learn the truth about Mohammed and the Quran.
Hey Ternan: Where was every Christian in America when the Sikh Temple got shot up?
But noooo, we won't talk about the ridiculous double-standards you and those like you set up on a daily basis.
Just admit that you want all the muslims funneled into gas chambers and be done with it. At least then you'll be honest with yourself and the rest of us.
Excellent Idea. I will some-one would enforce that thinking.
Ternan; In response to your comment, then why do we not see the millions turn on the thousands and arrest them and execute them for murdering American personel. As I have said before islam and freedom for all cannot co-exist.
Headline says- "muslims walking tightrope". Hope they slip and fall and the rope ends up around their necks. The olny good muslim is a dead one. Don't worry the military can arrange that. Thank you vey much.
Jmacq1 writes:
Actually there was an outpouring of sympathy and solidarity after that atrocity. Non-Sikhs wore the head turban at a remembrance ceremony to honor those who were massacred. People of all religions (and no religion) spoke out forcefully against that hateful attack. Where were you?
Adam is correct - many people did have an out pouring of sympathy after that shooting - the ones who didn't....are the ones who think anyone with a turban or hair covering is Muslim! Sikhs are not Muslim - they are completely unrelated religions.
http://www.diffen.com/difference/Islam_vs_Sikhism
FYI - Hasidic Jewish woman wear a turban-style hair covering as well - Orthodox Christian women cover their hair as well.
Pete, Colorado-301015 banned, just never managed to stop smearing Muslims.
In Islam, the Quran takes precedence over any Hadith. If the Quran and the Hadith conflict, the Quran wins. Richard got it right.
BYRON:
the true face of Islam by Richard 1958####:
Violence is an inherited trait for all muslims/islamist cultists... it has been for a millenia... the 21st century has come and past them all behind...
They hate everyone that is not their particular cult within muslims/islamists...
Let's see:
They hate the Jews...
Muslims have absolutely nothing more than 2 things they are proud of: oil and murder of innocents
Jews have amassed 190 Nobel Prizes that have changed all our lives for the better, the muslims have had not much to speak of...
Muslims kept science and medicine alive for hundreds of years while Europe languished in the Dark Ages. Do they give a Nobel Prize for that?
At one time the Islamic world thrived on knowledge. Unfortunately now, Islam is in its dark ages. Only the Muslims themselves can get them out of it.
yeahbuhwah?: Yes, and kudos to them for it, but that was a long time ago. As they say, what have you done for me lately?
@Pete: Right, you're so ignorant and stupid that you completely miss the fact that :
a) The only people who actually protected their jewish population in Europe during WW2 were .... Albania, the only muslim country in Europe back then, where the jewish population actually *GREW* under nazi occupation. The muslim population protected its entire jewish population at enormous risk to themselves.
b) Where did the jews go when christians invaded Spain and took it back from the muslims ? Oh right, they followed the muslims to north Africa, and stayed among them for centuries without being slaughtered.
So how about you go finish your junior-high diploma and get a few history classes in the process ? That would serve you well.
Just remeber the ORIGIONAL Arab was ISHMAEL WHICH MEANS 'Misery' and that's exactly what they not give to everyone.
Well, it's about time ~ where've you been?
I can't get over the picture of those muslims on the cover of Newsweek. They really need to get over it and enter the 21 Century. They look like a bunch of savages
buncha freakin animals
LOL
They are a bunch of savages that have declared war on anyone and anything that they consider a non-believer
Be sure to read the Newsweek piece too by Aayan Hirsi Ali. The link is in the article but I'll repost it here too since it should be required reading for anyone wanting more than just the "Islam is a great and peaceful religion hijacked by extremists" crapola:
http://www.thedailybeast.com/newsweek/2012/09/16/ayaan-hirsi-ali-on-the-islamists-final-stand.html
From the author: I linked to Hirsi Ali's article from my story. I also quoted her. KH
Why don't we just drop the big one on these towel headed, camel jockeys? Hell, we haven't nuked anyone since WWII. It's time to give the Nuclear Regulatory folks something to do. What do ya think?
All of the hateful posts against "muslims" just shows ALL of you saying these filthy things are no better then the so-called "savages" you condemn. We need to get OUR BUTTS OUT of the ME, end the war in Afghanistan once and for all and rebuild THIS country in spite of the selfishnes of the far right who refuses to spend a DIME on Americans or OUR "welfare even though the Law of the Land promotes the general Welfare" of our own while also wanting posterity.
The USA has installed dictators overthere satisfy our lust for friggin oil and sure did not moind those "muslim savages when our THEN number one enemy was the then Soviet Union and THEY were at war with Afghanistan". Now all I see is the hate rhetoric when WE created this mess by not keeping our nose out of their countries. For the last 6 MONTHS, instigator Netanyahu has been doing his saber rattling with Iran and can't WAIT to start a war with them so they can drag the USA into it in an election year. Heck, we've only been supporting their theft of Palestinian land w/o impunity for almost FIFTY YEARS after Israel became a "country" in what WAS PALESTINE-"The so-called Promised Land". By all logic, that land belongs to the Palestinians who were THERE FIRST but yet we've been financing Israel bullying and terrorism on those people with US tax dollars, MY TAX dollars while I have to be told: "Tough luck, your children's schools in the state of WI, got socked for 1.6 BILLION dollars but we have to STOP THE SPENDING!!!!!" scream the gop/tp greed mongers and WARMONGERS who want to carpet bomb the entire ME fro SH!T started by the USA.
HATE ME ALL want you fools want but we're going to be our own destruction and fall very SOON ecause of this war war, war and "my religion is better then YOUR religion" crap that has been going on for thousands of years. It is ALL BS. I am SICK of it and want peace for ONCE in my daughter's lives. We've been at war since my first was born and at this rate, perpetual wars and THAT SPENDING will be our undoing as well. Now grow up, ALL OF YOU who want to slaughter a whole race of people for the acts of extremists for OUR extremists are no better as much as you THINK you are. Get off it.
I am LIBERAL and PROUD but American first. We need to behave like The Constitution taught us and stop being the bully of the world and get mad when people retaliate.
Yes, I mentioned that the link was in the article. A lot of people reading through an article neglect to click on the link(s).
Well, i don't agree with hateful comments either teresa but there's still a HUGE difference between typing out an angry post on the internet and actually harming someone physically in real life. People who harm other people physically in real life over a perceived "insult" to a imaginary sky fairy or its earthly inventor are dangerous and yes "worse" than those who don't.
I think that most of us can agree with that.
Well, the Obama Administration has spent a lot of time and energy helping to topple all those "evil" dictatorships in the M.E. and look at the thanks being returned for that foolishness. For that matter, GW Bush toppled a vicious, long-standing dictator in Iraq and gave them democracy. Are things a whole lot better there now either? Not much if at all, they just have a new master in charge -- the Shia. So the U.S. is damned if they do and damned if they don't. Either way a convenient scapegoat. I agree that we should pull out completely along with all our "foreign aid" that never seems to amount to making anything better. Then we'll see how it goes there.
Your history of Israel and Palestine is pretty lop-sided but I'll leave that alone for now. However, if you talk about war-mongering, the President and Mullahs in charge of Iran are about as reckless, aggressive and irrational as they come. THEY are the ones issuing threats to wipe Israel off the map and constantly threatening. Do you really want them to obtain nuclear weapons? I don't.
NO country should have nuclear weapons and seeing as we and Russia are the two BIGGEST stockpilers of them as well as having these weapons, a numclear Iran is the least of my concerns right now. As far as my "lop-sided history on Israel and Palestine", I've got it quite correct, thank you and I am sick of my tax dollars being given to support THEIR war. I am sick of my tax dollars supporting ALL of our stupid wars while anything for AMERICANS here at home is called "hand-outs and wasteful spending". I am sick of it ALL. Bush gave Iraq democracy? Yeah, whatever!! We NEVER should have invaded that country to BEGIN WITH!!!!
We have reaped what we've sown all these years and need to STAY OUT OF IT!!! I posted a passage on another article pertaining to the recent uprisings and protests which I stand by until I DIE!!!
"You cannot purify the world thorugh force or obtain "peace" thorugh force and oppression. This "war on terror" is futile as it is a war we'll never win. We have become the "terrorists" through this perpetual violence without end that we claim to despise. BTW, what we "type" is seen world over thanks to the internet elsewhere and DOES incite more to violence. We're throwing gasoline on a fire with this nonsense. It HAS to end now!! Why is peace such a "dirty word"?
Again, the difference is that Russia and the U.S. are rational actors. All those nuclear devices for all these years and yet not one has been used by either against the other despite very tense situations over many years. Iran, on the other hand, is an irrational actor and would probably happily drop a few N-bombs on Israel to satisfy their blood lust against the Zionist State and also hasten the return of the 12th Imam or however that stupid myth goes. I don't know, maybe you'd like to see some bombs dropped on Israel too, yes?
I agree, and neither should we have bombed Libya in order to overthrow Gadhafi. Same thinkiing and same mistake in both cases.
So we should restrict our freedom of speech and expression so that some hair-trigger fanatics in other countries won't be offended and start killing people? No! The most important speech and expression to protect is exactly the kind that tests our patience. That is one of our founding principles and needs to be underlined and defended against encroachment by those who seek to control what people think or say.
@Adam44:
"Again, the difference is that Russia and the U.S. are rational actors."
Was starting a war with Iraq over non-existent weapons of mass destruction "rational"?
You know back in the late 1940s the US government thought it could use the threat of the atomic bomb to intimidate Stalin, Stalin however basically said that if a war came between the U.S.S.R and the US that he’d still fight it despite the fact that the US had the Atomic bomb and that he didn’t really care about what happened to Russia. Now at first the US government thought that Stalin didn’t understand the power of the Atomic bomb, but they soon came to believe that he actually didn’t care, which made the Atomic bomb as a political weapon ineffective.
Likewise I believe that Iran is using the same idea, they are saying that they do not care if they all die and if they are attacked they will wipe out their enemies to try and blunt the main weapon of political change the west and Israel have (being our militaries) this is one of the main reasons why we do not want them to have nukes because if they did then that does throw our “conventional” military advantage out the window (after all when was the last time we did fight with a nuclear power?) the other reason why we don’t want them to have them is that if they did then they’d have a new commodity to sell on the world markets after all there are groups and nations that would love to buy (but cannot afford to develop) nukes and if Iran could make them and the delivery systems for them then they have just found a huge new source of revenue.
Of course it was if there was a sincere but mistaken conviction that weapons of mass destruction were in Saddam's hands. Using chemical weapons agains the Kurds only reinforced that suspicion. Again, I was against that invasion, but it did result in a vicious dictator being toppled and democracy being introduced for the first time to Iraq. Isn't that the same reasoning being used to justify our bombing campaign in Libya, to topple a dictator and impose democracy? If not, why is it any different?
hey day writes:
I think you're right that the whole furor does underline a fundamental insecurity by Muslims about their faith. That and they are instructed in the "holy" texts themselves to fight, kill, and die for Allah and Muhammad. It's also relevant to note that Muhammad himself had people murdered for writing poems that satirized him, so why should it be any different for his followers? Google Asma bint Marwan for example. Click on the 2nd link as Wiki is fraught with those trying to whitewash the truth about Islam.
Los, there is also the little matter of a frantic proliferation of Nukes in the MIddle East if Iran gets one. Every Sunni state in the region would strive for nukes if Shia Iran has them. The Sunni/Shia tensions are not much less than Israel/Islam tensions. If Iraq and Iran had nukes in the 1990s then tens of millions would probably have died instead of just hundreds of thousands in that war because both sides would've used them, imo.
Teresa, since you have it quite right how is it the Dome of the Rock is built over the Temple Mount, you know nothing about the Palestinians and where they actually came from, ever heard of Jordan, and to all you Jew haters it isn't Israel threatening to wipe Iran off the map
Adam personally I would include the proliferation of Nukes to Arabic countries that would result in Iran having them under the part of Iran having a new market but you’re right if Iran got them everybody else would want them to in-order to feel safe, but I doubt this would lead to nuclear war if they did, after all first there is the technical details like delivery systems, then the fact that nukes are pretty much 1 shot weapons as anyone who did use one would be obliterated by its rivals. Indeed the true power of a nuke comes from the threat of its use in regards to conventional weapons, as most nations’ policies involving such weapons are to only use them as a weapon of last resort. Where this comes into effect in Iran is that if they had nukes their ruling regime would be completely secure from outside “intervention” as any conventional defeat would be met with nuclear weapons. Of course there is also the threat that Iran could supply them to non-state actors (aka terrorists) but since most nations have upgraded their nuclear defence policies to include WMD attacks by terrorists it would be a big risk for Iran, of course this is where the global markets play a role as there could be businessmen in Iran, who may be willing to sell nuclear technology for profit, without the consent of the Iranian government. Strangely this has happened before in Pakistan.
So in all whilst stopping Iran from getting nuclear weapons maybe the practical, logical thing to do it is harder to justify to a very war weary public
Actually there are plenty of Christians who get their panties in a bunch over perceived "slights" to Jesus and/or the Bible. The guy who killed the Sikhs leaps to mind.
But do we really want to descend to this "tit for tat" business? Or "our god's better than your god" b.s.? Aren't we better than that? And if not, why not?
He was a Nazi, not a Christian. His motivation had nothing to do with any perceived "slights" to Jesus or the Bible.
Technology easily purchased from the North Koreans with all that oil fortune that Iran is sitting on.
All the better to hasten the return of the 12th Imam which is a powerful belief in Shia Islam. The leaders and Mullahs of Iran are not rational actors in my opinion, so "mutually assured destruction" and other such concepts and restraints don't apply as much, if at all, to Iran due to its theocratic mindset.
“All the better to hasten the return of the 12th Imam which is a powerful belief in Shia Islam. The leaders and Mullahs of Iran are not rational actors in my opinion”
Ah but that ties into my first post as Stalin wasn’t believed to be a rational actor by the west either, and he had an equally strong belief that there would be a final showdown between communism and capitalism. Having not done or read any psychological evaluations of Iran’s leaders I wouldn’t want to try to guess their mind set, I would say however that the only sure way of halting their nuke program permanently is with a regime change which can only be accomplished with a ground invasion and occupation, so for me the real question isn’t would Iran use nuke because I believe they (just like every nation) would if the circumstances were right, but does the American people have the will (I say America because they are the biggest contributor to NATO) to pay the price involved in stopping Iran?
Why exactly should we believe you?
Do you really expect to convince a reasonable person to believe that the Iranians would love to have their children be turned into radioactive dust in order to take out a few Israelis?
Israel has enough nuclear firepower to take on Western Europe, never mind one isolated 3rd world country. Do you seriously think that anyone believes you when you claim they want to be destroyed?
I am curious. These may sound like rhetorical questions, but they are not. I really want to know. How do you expect to be believed?
Well Byron, you don't have to listen to me. Listen the President of Iran.
Reported by NBC News, Aug. 22, 2012:
I never said that they wanted to be destroyed. Obviously they want to destroy Israel. Duh.
But are they still supporting them with cash?
Of course!
Since mohammed was in fact, according to his own account a womanizer,child molester and a thief what could possibly be in this film that offends muslims?
the truth hurts
What joe said!!
Why is it too late? It's never too late to stand up for what you believe in. With all the vitriol and hate aimed at 1 Billion Muslims around the world, and maybe they fear coming out.
Muslim Americans died in those towers too on 911.
hummbird,
You make an interesting point when you say muslim Americans died on 911. This is precisely who they are, muslims first..... Americans second. Before you counter with African Americans, being muslim is not a race. You can see how they think by the way they do not assimilate into our culture. If you are a woman, go to a muslim country and don't cover your hair.....see what happens. So when you are in their country you better do as they do, but when they come here they do what they want. muslims want you to respect their religion and way of life when it is pretty obvious they don't give a crap about anyone else's. They also say, Don't blame all muslims for 911, but it okay to blame all Americans for a stupid film made by an Egyptian? Brilliant logic from the carriers of the virus known as islam. Calling muhammad a prophet because it says so in the koran is obviously what educated people call a self-reinforcing delusion.
Just remeber the ORIGIONAL Arab was ISHMAEL WHICH MEANS 'Misery' and that's exactly what they not give to everyone.
Hummbird,
Thank you for recognizing Muslims died in the Towers on 9/11 also. It's nice to know some people realize we are humans too. And 7341804 only in Saudi Arabia would there be an issue of not covering one's hair. I've been to Bangladesh, Egypt and Dubai. No problem for not being covered, although I pesonally prefer to be covered.
And no matter how many positive things we do or positive words we speak and stand up to those who are definitely wrong for being violent, it's never enough in many people's eyes. It's again another form of racism, bigotry or hatred from those who have little brains themselves.
Muslims will kill their own children for becoming to "Western", so please try not to insut people with false sympathy. If these so called kind hearted Muslims weretruly conserned, they would put bounties out on the heads of the Radicals since that seems like the thing to do these days.
The religion of peace: Qu'ran- Sura's
9:5. Then when the Sacred Months (the 1st, 7th, 11th, and 12th months of the Islamic calendar) have passed, then kill the Mushrikun {unbelievers} wherever you find them, and capture them and besiege them, and prepare for them each and every ambush. But if they repent and perform As-Salat (Iqamat-as-Salat {the Islamic ritual prayers}), and give Zakat {alms}, then leave their way free. Verily, Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.
8:39. And fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief and polytheism: i.e. worshipping others besides Allah) and the religion (worship) will all be for Allah Alone [in the whole of the world]. But if they cease (worshipping others besides Allah), then certainly, Allah is
All-Seer of what they do.
8:67. It is not for a Prophet that he should have prisoners of war (and free them with ransom) until he had made a great slaughter (among his enemies) in the land. You desire the good of this world (i.e. the money of ransom for freeing the captives), but Allah desires (for you) the Hereafter. And Allah is All-Mighty, All-Wise.
9:29. Fight against those who believe not in Allah, nor in the Last Day, nor forbid that which has been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger and those who acknowledge not the religion of truth (i.e. Islam) among the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians), until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.
9:33. It is He {Allah} Who has sent His Messenger (Muhammad) with guidance and the religion of truth (Islam), to make it superior over all religions even though the Mushrikun (polytheists, pagans, idolaters, disbelievers in the Oneness of Allah) hate (it).
A little love from allah.
Lazarus
So cheryl why are you here in America???? Are you a citizen??? Is your first loyalty to America or some muslim country??? You want people to believe what you say then tell the truth. From where I sit your wonderful prophet was NOT a good person. Show me why a man who molests children should be worshipped????
Maybe they have a right to fear considering the slaughter of innocents, the rape, murder, torture of untold hundreds of thousands throughout the world in the name of their fake god and their pedophile riddled religion that they have fostered on the world in the name of their "religion"
Cheryl,
I know many Muslims and they, like myself, are human beings. We all are, and wouldn't it be nice to be united? Do you agree that while Islam has positives, it can also divide us?
Regarding the hijab, I know several cases of women who choose to cover. I also know several women who cover because of underlying pressure to do so. In one case, in a school, women covered because they feared the Muslim men would tell their families or isolate them from the community.
Also, how do you feel about women who do not cover? If you believe God prefers you to cover, would it not stand to reason that God would want others to as well? If so, you surely do not look favorably on uncovered women.
And muslims die by muslim hands in the middle east every day, or did you miss all the islamikazi suicide bombers.
I remember kruchev saying we will bury you. and a few harsh words over nuclear missles in cuba which ended when kennedy said if a missle from cuba hits the US we will consider it a direct assault by the USSR. And we reserve second strike. course nothing ever came of that. Lots of countries have made comments about destroying another country. the US after the attack on pearl harbor. And against the nazi's, and italians. course they joined japan against the US.
but there is a differance with islam. iran has already stated they would destroy Israel. So has hamas, the PLO (Its in their bylaws), why because they are Jews. No other country has done that against a people. They also hate us as we back Israel, barely, and few if any other countries do.
Course as a side note i read that the highest birth rates in france denmark and i think norway are not french, danes, and norweigens, they are by foreigners. See if you can figure out who the foreigners are.
Islam is a great is a great smoke and mirrors exhibition. lets see. in accordance with the Bible some 3,000 years ago abraham took isaac up to the mountain to sacrifice his son. Islam written in the 8th century, states that abraham took ishmael up to the mountain for the sacrifice. The point being is that the son would inherit the land of canaan, (Israel). Course the Bible states that Ishmael and his mother were run off. And that Ishmael would be the father of kings but not have the land of Israel, it was given to abraham. Now dont get in a religious argument. take it for what its worth. face value only. Both claim to be the inheritor of Israel. one written 3,000 years ago, the other 1200 years ago. the fight is whos right?
I noticed the politically correct answer by american muslims. I have also watched muslims being arrested for attempted bombings in the US. I suspect this is only the start. I do hope that iran is level headed when they get which i already suspect they have nuclear arms. Hope their minders russian and china can contain them. But that has never happened in history.
I have seen nearly every religion downgraded, with completely rude and repulsive things done either by the media or other persons. Jewish, Christian, Catholic etc. I have yet to see anywhere in the world where any Jew, Christian, Catholic or any other religion, killed maimed or destroyed because of a supposed "slight" to their personal prophet. Dont go diggin in the past. The past is the past. TODAY. Where was the last Jewish or Christian JIHAD.
there have been attempts to correlate the similarities between Islam and Jews and Christians. Well for the most part Jews have thier sons foreskin cut, so do a lot of Christians. Some is religious reasons, however, there is also a medical reason. Keeps down on yeast infections passed to the wife.
But muslims cut the clitoris off small girls so they dont get excited and start sinning and running around.
Sorry that aint the same. Islam is slick and perveyor of half truths and lies.
If you can get the two sided speaches of arab leaders. One for the west and one for their followers. They are not nearly close. I remember one about if your wife is rebellious an imam explaining how to beat your wife. No broken bones and bruising. cute.
Cheryl writes:
You haven't been to Egypt lately then because the times they are a changing there. Uncovered women are harassed in many places there now by Salafist morality police on the lookout for moral infractions.
Claiming that all Muslims support violence is like claiming that all Americans support the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. The ignorance of some of the commenters here is surpassed only by their arrogance.
Not enough if you ask me. Shouldve been all muslims.
We are told again and again by 'experts' and 'talking heads' that Islam is the religion of peace and that the vast majority of Muslims just want to live in peace. Although this unqualified assertion may or may not be true, it is entirely irrelevant. It is meaningless fluff, meant to make us feel better, and meant to somehow diminish the specter of fanatics rampaging across the globe in the name of Islam.
The fact is that the fanatics rule Islam at this moment in history. It is the fanatics who march. It is the fanatics who wage any one of 50 or more shooting wars worldwide. It is the fanatics who systematically slaughter Christian or tribal groups throughout Africa and are gradually taking over the entire continent in an Islamic wave. It is the fanatics who bomb, behead, murder, or honor-kill. It is the fanatics who take over mosque after mosque. It is the fanatics who zealously spread the stoning and hanging of rape victims and homosexuals. It is the fanatics who teach their young to kill and to become suicide bombers.
The hard, quantifiable fact is that the peaceful majority (if it truly exists at all) is cowed and extraneous.
@Freethink88
There is nothing in the Qur'an that states women's hair MUST be covered - these are rules imposed, outside of the Qur'an. These rules of hair covering also apply to Orthodox & Hasidic Jewish women, Orthodox Catholic women, Orthodox Christian women...from their own religion, Jewish, Christian, etc...
The covering of hair in public is - for me, a sign of respect for myself. It's the same reason that I do not go out in a mini-skirts with my buttocks in the wind or wear a shirt that shows my breasts as if I were not wearing a shirt. Do I always cover my hair, no - it depends on how I feel, where I am going, who I will or will not meet - it is a strictly personal decision that I make for myself - no matter my religious beliefs or non-beliefs.
Black Kettle and where did you get this belief?
I could be wrong--but I've a feeling a lot of these protests are more a product of unemployment and lack of "power"--than anything to do with religion.
Look at the pictures. Majority of "protestors" are young males with more time on their hands than money, employment, and/or political power.
Get them jobs and a place where they can feel empowered and more secure--and I'll bet lots of this "bad behavior" would disappear. Not USA's "job" to do this--I know. We need to work on that stuff for ourselves. But I think a lot of this "bad behavior" is not only tolerated--but even encouraged--in these Muslim countries--to take the pressure off their often corrupt and incompetent rulers.
Divide and conquer.
And you have never seen a non-Muslim being arrested for attempted bombings in the US?
It's pretty funny. EVERY point being made on this board by the anti-Muslim crowd can be applied equally to any non-Muslim group. I am surprised at how so few realize their own hypocrisy.
Is Christianity the religion of peace, for example? Or Buddhism?
GTR5: What more are they to do? Any condemnation of either the movie maker or the violent extremists garners no good for the American Muslims. I am glad to see public displays by Muslims condemning the hatred on both sides.
I will stand beside the Muslims that are condemning hatred on both sides. There is no cause or reason for either the violence or the intolerance shown by either side. I am not religious, but I do firmly believe in all religious people right to excercise their religious beliefs so long as they do not try to impose it on me.
My thanks to those Muslims that are extending their concerns at this difficult time.
Hundreds of thousands of innocents have been murdered over the last 10 years and now these muslims here are protesting the murderers now that a 10 minute film comes out created by an Egyptian ex-con that just so happens to be living in LA?
Don't be so naive - if they follow the quran, they are dictated to deceive the enemy - we are the enemy to them... sympathizing with them is a notch on their rifle and you fell for it... wow...
Your belief that "Freedom of Speech" is unlimited is naive. If you view the film, you will see it was done only to inflame and incite people and for no other reason. There are limits, even here, as to how far a person can go with their speech and this one far exceeded any sane limits.
As to the allegation about following the Quran, there are such positions set forth in all religious books. Even the Bible advocates for the destruction of enemies. The lunatic fringe of any religious group will carry this to the extreme.
My position has to do with the position taken by American Muslims and I stand by my post above.
They can freely create the movie, and I can freely condemn the movie. Freedom of speech on both sides. I support their right to make it, but I can still condemn it and say it should not have been made.
And it is not the lunatic fringe of Muslims that either engage in violence, encourage violence, condone violence, or just don't care about it because it is against Americans, it is the majority of Muslims.
With respect--there ARE exceptions to 1st Amendment's "freedom of speech":
Per Wikipedia under "United States free speech exceptions":
Exceptions to free speech in the United States: There are limitations on the First Amendment's guarantee of free speech and expression as recognized by the United States Supreme Court. These exceptions have been created over time, based on certain types of speech and expression, and under different contexts. While freedom of speech in the United States is aconstitutional right, these exceptions make that right a limited one.
Restrictions that are based on people's reactions to words include both instances of a complete exception, and cases of diminished protection. Speech that involves incitement, false statements of fact, obscenity, child pornography, threats, and speech owned by others are all completely exempt from First Amendment protections. Commercial advertising receives diminished, but not eliminated, protection."
Don't know if this film falls into the restrictions and/or exceptions--my point is only that there are some limits to 1st amendment. Lawyers/courts would know better than I.
We need zero more muslim pricks in the west.They have the east.let's keep the west for our OWN brand of insanity[i prefer it]
lol i second the motion!
Me Too!!
Hurray for lunatics! Sanity is not all it's cracked up to be. (things that make you go: "Hmmmmm"...)
It's really a simple concept: peoples rights to free speech will always trump other peoples perceived right to kill because they don't like what you said.
I don't care how screwed up ones country or religion is. This should be a universally accepted minimal level to be considered civilized.
The Muslims wants to be recognized and accepted. I get it.
I also get to achieve this they need to come out of the 12th century and join the rest of the planet.
lol yes well put jeff
When will we see Muslims take to the streets here in the US and around the world in huge protests against the fanatics? Just how opposed are they to their behavior? Thank you to the few who stood on the steps holding signs but I think it will take a little bit more than that to show Muslims abroad that you really denounce their violence. Not that they would care anyway.
John....totally agree with you. There is an old saying that goes....If you are not part of the solution....you are part of the problem. There is over one billion muslims in the world and only a small fraction of them are islamic? Why are the other billion or so muslims doing nothing to stop the ones giving their club a bad name? Could it be they secretly condone islamist's behavior?
Islam's Prophet Muhammad, who did not retaliate in kind to personal abuse.
......He was too busy with his 9 yr old bride to retaliate!
Ally Ally Ahkbar!!!
Let us keep in mind that there is but one book for Muslims, that being the Quran. Most of the rest of the world is constantly evolving into a more civilized, understanding and forgiving societies. It doesn't really matter a whole lot what has happened in ancient history. (in my case before 1946) The free world, not under Islamic control, is constantly evolving and we learn from many, many sources and ideas. Unfortunate for us, the Muslim, true believers, learn from just one source, it is god's will!.
Where I get a little confused is when, Islam says Allah is responsible for everything, he has made no mistakes nor errors, 'it is god's will.' The book is not to be questioned, period! So, if Allah is responsible for everything and, he created homosexuals, how is it that Muslims can question him and, condemn gays to death?
@Sarah, way up at the beginning of this thread, a comment. We may not all have PhDs in religion but many of us learned a great deal about Islam on 9/11. Many of the things we learned that day are re-enforced in all corners of the world virtually every day of the week. If you are not a true-believer, and, even if you are, Islam (it is god's will) encourages its followers to kill in the name of Allah and the messenger and makes no exception for collateral damage. That is to say, it is all right to kill men, women and children, (and gays) who have nothing to do with the target of these deadly terrorist attacks, one Muslim against another or against anyone else; it doesn't matter if you are just a bystander, you are soon dead. (We have a similar predicament here in America but on a much smaller and more localized scale; those who fit this profile are probably not among the readers.) So, while we may not have the coveted PhD, we still understand what's going on.
Too Funny!!!
"Burning an American flag proved fatal for a Pakistani protester, who reportedly died from inhaling fumes from the ignited icon of independence."
Dumbass.....
Now there's a prime example of how the American flag can defend itself, in Islamic republics (and other places). Perhaps some wealthy Americans can open a flag manufacturing plant in the US and send the newly manufactured 'free' product to distribution points, in communities throughout the world, that have a propensity to burn American flags. Points conducive to unabated distribution of free American flags, of course, would be preferred. Be sure to tag each with warning labels, informing would be consumers, that; "The toxicity nor potential chemical reactions of the dyes, used in our manufacturing processes, have not been tested for volatility in an open environment, lying upon the ground being stomped upon by people who hate what the American flag stands for nor, has it been tested as to how it may, or may not, contribute to spontaneous human combustion."
rMoney has promised to create 12 million jobs, over four years, for 23 million unemployed Americans, maybe this could help him towards that goal! Oh, wait, did he actually say these jobs were for America's unemployed?
Maybe it is time the Muslims split their faith like various others have done in the past and separate thems from one another?
One group: "Allah is a loving god who desires peace."
Another group: "Allah is a wrathful god who wants us to kill the infidels."
What more of a split do you want?
Another split
Muslims in public: We respect and love the U.S.
Muslims in private: We will screw over these infidels every chance we get
They have. I may get it wrong but sunnis believe the caliph over all muslims must be a decendant of moHAMed, (still dont understand the pork thing), but shiites believe anyone can be the caliph. and this is one of many reasons the sunnis and shiites keep blowing themselves up. then throw in wahabiiasm, (bin laden). The muslims have more sects i believe than Christians and Jews combined. Differance is when a baptist runs into a methodist a the liquor store, the methodist says ""HI" the baptist wont say anything. Now if a sunni and a shiite would meet they would draw knives and go for it cause they are sworn enemies as dictated by their IMAMs.
Well you don't have to ask a Muslim person about "the pork thing," ask an Orthodox Jew or Orthodox Greek or Orthodox Christian - they don't eat pork either!
Don't trust any of them. Their religion calls for annhilation of non-believers. The muslims here in the U.S. practice the same religion over here as they do there. If they didn't, they would be blasphemers. So, why are we supposed to trust the ones over here? We certainly can't trust them over there.
Hummbird, they obviously don't care about killing each other as that fact has been proven time and time again, so the fact that a couple of muslims may have died in 9/11 is irrelevant. That fact didn't even cross their tiny little minds.
you are very ignorant of Islam ma'am! I would challenge you to visit this site Insha Allah...www.islamtomorrow.com
While the Western world was under the grips of theocratic regimes in the Middle Ages, the Muslim world was flourishing with knowledge - biology, architecture, astronomy, mathematics, etc. Algebra is an Arabic word and so is alchemy, the precursor to chemistry. Many stars have Arabic names - zenith and azimuth are Arabic words, after all. Jews and Muslims and enlightened Christians studied together and taught others.
But in later centuries, roles have been reversed. I am friends with people of all religions and backgrounds. Our only hope of survival as a species is moderates of all faiths, who understand that living and cooperating help us all thrive. Having lived in Israel, I have seen with my own eyes how Jews, Christians and Muslims can live together peacefully on a daily basis.
Each religion has its fundamentalist branches - those are what give religions a bad name. Fundamentalists of all stripes need to be set apart. Education and enlightenment will eventually make them disappear.
Most fundamentalists of any religious stripe tend to be less educated - education is the key.
Yeah, good luck with that education. The muslim world is still stuck in the middle ages while the rest of the world has moved on and are mostly behaving in a civilized manner. They don't want to listen to intelligent reason or come into the 21st century. Try to go talk to the mob of protesters and tell them "it's free speech, its just a really badly made movie clip", or "why can't we all live in peace together"?. World peace is a great idea if you can get cavemen to listen.
So they could translate Greek in to Arabic? and it means what?
mathematics
here is the reason for the common misunderstanding
http://www-history.mcs.st-and.ac.uk/Biographies/Diophantus.html
astronomy
http://www.almagest.co.uk/almaname.htm
These insults to humanity by islam will continue. Muhammed was depicted in the film clip as a pedophile, murderer and stupid. The first two are true, but he was anything but stupid. His profession and lifes work was as a robber. After some successes in this effort where he was insisting on one fifth of the booty, he decided he needed a better handle on his fellow thugs in order to continue receiving his cut. So, being illiterate and jealous of the "people of the book" (christians-bible and jews-thalmud) he hired a jewish cleric to write a book for him. After he and his band of thugs robbed and murdered their way across the mideast he made a mistake. He took a young jewish girl as one of his concubines after killing her family. She found some poison and put it in his food. It took a few days for him to die and he had time to kill her. Then, get this, the faithful believe he mounted his favorite white horse and jumped from Mecca, Saudi Arabia, to the dome of the rock in jerusalem and then into heaven. Whether the horse was flesh and blood or a spirit horse is not revealed in the religious writings. But to paraphrase Neil Armstrong, one small step for man (muhammed mounting his horse after he died), and one giant step for horsekind.
Were these people invited to the DNC to pray for two hours prior to the start of the last night? The Internet says they did so, and if so, why does this story not see the light of day? Is Islam the "back door man" for the Democrats? As you look at stories on the Internet the NEWS sites from around the world, like Pakistan and Egypt, I see people being sent to their deaths every day in the name of Allah.
Look at the Arab Spring where Egypt elected the Muslim Brotherhood portrayed as "Moderate" in beliefs, but as soon as they were in power the leadership went to the radicals. This, folks is how they operate.
If they were invited to the DNC, then I am truly scared because the media seems to be under someones control that wants to hide truth.do you Americans like freedom of speech as well as the other rights we enjoy under the constitution? If we allow the Muslims to gain any kind of control in our government, we are doomed as the American Nation.
The religion of peace: Qu'ran- Sura's
9:5. Then when the Sacred Months (the 1st, 7th, 11th, and 12th months of the Islamic calendar) have passed, then kill the Mushrikun {unbelievers} wherever you find them, and capture them and besiege them, and prepare for them each and every ambush. But if they repent and perform As-Salat (Iqamat-as-Salat {the Islamic ritual prayers}), and give Zakat {alms}, then leave their way free. Verily, Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.
8:39. And fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief and polytheism: i.e. worshipping others besides Allah) and the religion (worship) will all be for Allah Alone [in the whole of the world]. But if they cease (worshipping others besides Allah), then certainly, Allah is
All-Seer of what they do.
8:67. It is not for a Prophet that he should have prisoners of war (and free them with ransom) until he had made a great slaughter (among his enemies) in the land. You desire the good of this world (i.e. the money of ransom for freeing the captives), but Allah desires (for you) the Hereafter. And Allah is All-Mighty, All-Wise.
9:29. Fight against those who believe not in Allah, nor in the Last Day, nor forbid that which has been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger and those who acknowledge not the religion of truth (i.e. Islam) among the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians), until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.
9:33. It is He {Allah} Who has sent His Messenger (Muhammad) with guidance and the religion of truth (Islam), to make it superior over all religions even though the Mushrikun (polytheists, pagans, idolaters, disbelievers in the Oneness of Allah) hate (it).
A little love from allah.
Lazarus
Wow..... the post here are stunning in there lack of humanity. Most of you speak as if you understand the Muslim world completely down to the last motive of the last person. As Muslims are from a variety of social, economic, and geographic backgrounds they cannot be treated as a megalithic block of humanity (they are not the Borg). There is diversity there, I realize it is easier to rationalize you short sighted opinions when you lump people together, I hope that convenience is never visited on you.
And YOU should pay more attention to the muslim media.For decades,every day,the arab and muslim media has been rife with hateful,racist programming,speeches,films,videos and newspaper cartoons.Go ahead..look up "arab muslim newspaper cartoons" on the web.THAT is the problem.And too few decent,liberal muslims are willing to stand up against that trash.Who can blame them? They risk death.Because the vast majority of muslim victims of political violence are killed by other muslims.
The religion is just now entering it's "reformation".But it enters this period with intense anger and falsely pious individuals whose only real goal is power.Expect a bumpy ride.And expect most of the victims to be muslim,slaughtered by fellow muslims.
Notice how all the Imams, in their made for the media 'display' of outrage at Muslim violence, rioting and killing always seem to say, effectively, it is immoral to attack or kill "innocent" people?
Understand, if you are not a 'true believer,' you are not 'innocent' so just what, exactly, are these Muftis and Imams telling us?
What does the Ayatollah have to say about 'freedom of speech?'
I lived inside of Allah's Vagina for 40 days and 40 nights. She herself told me that all Muslims around the world need to chill out and to ignore insults. We need to protect "freedom of speech" but we should never give credence to hate mongering. Some people will stoop so low as to poke fun of the Prophet Mohammed, just to irritate the fanatics of this peaceful religion.
Praise be to Allah and her Glorious Vagina !!!!!!!!!!!!
Larue, why do Muslims hate Jews, and with so much land why can't they share a small portion with the Jews wouldn't that be the right thing to do since Islam is all about peace and love?
It is apparent in all their (muslims) violence they incur upon totally innocent people that muslims cannot handle the truth. If they cannot handle the truth about their "prophet" then they need to convert.
Dennis Parker, there is one sticking point for the conversion of Muslims- All the other Muslims are instructed to kill anyone who converts away from their cult. Makes it hard to convert when your own family will "honor" kill you for trying to educate yourself.
Praise be to Allah and her glorious Vagina.
Here is just a small example of the character of the Prophet Muhammad salallahu alayhi wa salam.
{By the grace of Allah, you are gentle towards the people; if you had been stern and ill-tempered, they would have dispersed from round about you} (translation of Qur’an 3:159)
About himself the prophet (peace be upon him) said: “Allah has sent me as an apostle so that I may demonstrate perfection of character, refinement of manners and loftiness of deportment.” (Malik, Mawatta; Ahmed, Musnad; Mishkat)
By nature he was gentle and kind hearted, always inclined to be gracious and to overlook the faults of others. Politeness and courtesy, compassion and tenderness, simplicity and humility, sympathy and sincerity were some of the keynotes of his character. In the cause of right and justice he could be resolute and severe but more often than not, his severity was tempered with generosity. He had charming manners which won him the affection of his followers and secured their devotion. Though virtual king of Arabia and an apostle of Allah, he never assumed an air of superiority. Not that he had to conceal any such vein by practice and artifice: with fear of Allah, sincere humility was ingrained in his heart. He used to say, “I am a Prophet of Allah but I do not know what will be my end.” (Bukhari, Sahih Bukhari, Chapter “Al-Janaiz”)
In one of his sermons calculated to instill the fear of Allah and the day of reckoning in the hearts of men, he said : “O people of Quraish be prepared for the hereafter, I cannot save you from the punishment of Allah; O Bani Abd Manaf, I cannot save you from Allah; O Abbas, son of Abdul Mutalib, I cannot protect you either; O Fatima, daughter of Muhammad, even you I cannot save.” (Sahahin)
He used to pray : “O Allah! I am but a man. If I hurt any one in any manner, then forgive me and do not punish me.” (Ahmed, Musnad, Vol. 6 pg. 103)
He always received people with courtesy and showed respect to older people and stated:
“To honor an old man is to show respect to Allah.”
He would not deny courtesy even to wicked persons. It is stated that a person came to his house and asked permission for admission. The prophet (peace be upon him) remarked that he was not a good person but might be admitted. When he came in and while he remained in the house, he was shown full courtesy. When he left Aiysha (ra) said : “You did not think well of this man, but you treated him so well.” . The prophet (peace be upon him) replied : “He is a bad person in the sight of Allah who does not behave courteously and people shun his company bacause of his bad manners.” (Bukhari, Sahih Bukhari).
He was always the first to greet another and would not withdraw his hand from a handshake till the other man withdrew his. If one wanted to say something in his ears, he would not turn away till one had finished (Abu Dawud, Tirmizi). He did not like people to get up for him and used to say : “Let him who likes people to stand up in his honour, he should seek a place in hell.” (Abu Dawud, Kitabul Adab, Muhammadi Press, Delhi).
He would himself, however, stand up when any dignitary came to him. He had stood up to receive the wet nurse who had reared him in infancy and had spread his own sheet for her. His foster brother was given similar treatment. He avoided sitting at a prominent place in a gathering, so much so that people coming in had difficulty in spotting him and had to ask which was the Prophet (peace be upon him). Quite frequently uncouth bedouins accosted him in their own gruff and impolite manner but he never took offence. (Abu Dawud Kitabul Atama).
He used to visit the poorest of ailing persons and exhorted all muslims to do likewise (Bukhari, Sahih Bukhari, Chapter “Attendance on ailing persons”). He would sit with the humblest of persons saying that righteousness alone was the criterion of one’s superiority over another. He invariably invited people be they slaves, servants or the poorest believers, to partake with him of his scanty meals (Tirmizi, Sunan Tirmizi).
Whenever he visited a person he would first greet him and then take his permission to enter the house. He advised the people to follow this etiquette and not to get annoyed if anyone declined to give permission, for it was quite likely the person concerned was busy otherwise and did not mean any disrespect (Ibid).
There was no type of household work too low or too undignified for him. Aiysha (ra) has stated, “He always joined in household work and would at times mend his clothes, repair his shoes and sweep the floor. He would milk, tether, and feed his animals and do the household shopping.” (Qazi Iyaz: Shifa; Bukhari, Sahih Bukhari, Chapter: Kitabul Adab)
He would not hesitate to do the menial work of others, particularly of orphans and widows (Nasi, Darmi). Once when there was no male member in the house of the companion Kabab Bin Arat who had gone to the battlefield, he used to go to his house daily and milk his cattle for the inhabitants (Ibn Saad Vol. 6, p 213).
Um, so who are these other idiots reading about and following?
The Quran contains at least 109 verses that call Muslims to war with
nonbelievers for the sake of Islamic rule. Some are quite graphic, with
commands to chop off heads and fingers and kill infidels wherever they may be
hiding. Muslims who do not join the fight are called
'hypocrites' and warned that Allah will send them to Hell if they do not join
the slaughter.
Unlike nearly all of the Old
Testament verses of violence, the verses of violence in the Quran are mostly
open-ended, meaning that they are not restrained by the historical context of
the surrounding text. They are part of the eternal, unchanging word of Allah,
and just as relevant or subjective as anything else in the Quran.
Most of today's Muslims exercise a personal choice to interpret their holy
book's many calls to violence according to what their own moral preconceptions
find justificable. Apologists cater to their preferences with tenuous arguments
that gloss over historical fact and generally do not stand up to scrutiny.
Still, it is important to note that the problem is not bad people,
but bad ideology.
Unfortunately, there are very few verses of tolerance and peace to abrogate
or even balance out the many that call for nonbelievers to be fought and subdued
until they either accept humiliation, convert to Islam, or are killed.
Muhammad's own martial legacy - and that of his companions - along with the
remarkable stress on violence found in the Quran have produced a trail of blood
and tears across world history.
non-believers - mean people who do not believe in a monotheistic "god," - it DOES NOT mean Christians!
It meant people who believed in many gods, pagans, adulterers, etc.... Those who believe that the Qur'an justifies the killing of Christians are completely wrong - Christians are considered believers, Jesus, Mary, Psalms, etc... other prophet's form the first Christian bibles are all included and worshiped as being "true" in the Qur'an.
Some very informative insight in Richard and Pulsars comments above but Black Kettle leaves me confused.
If 'all Christians are considered believers' why is it a death sentence to preach or promote Christianity in Islamic communities/countries? Where does the Jewish believer, fit in, to the grand theme of things?
@Seattle Sunshine - I can give you my opinion, but it's best that you don't "take" anyone's word - read the Qur'an - Penguin Classics has a pretty good translation.
You hear a lot of people saying that that Islam promotes the killing of "Infidels" or non-believers. Infidel is a Latin word - for a person who does not believe in God. Allah, God, Yahweh - they are all considered to be the SAME God - In Islam, Jesus is a prophet, etc...
The problem is not in the holy books - the problem is in certain governments and fanatics from all religions. Many Arabic countries have nearly (some over) 90% illiteracy- usually because they cannot afford to go to school. So, if you have a dictating Imam or Cleric or Shah - who says "The Qur'an commands this......" It will be believed by many people because they cannot read the Qur'an themselves and they trust (or are afraid) of those who are in a position of power. - So they demand that women wear a head scarf, or cannot drive or say a husband can beat his wife - these are "religious governments." It is a fact that non of what I just stated above (hair covering, etc) is in the Qur'an.
Don't take my word or Pulsars or whatever, don't try to find a translation on the web - they are always slanted to serve a purpose - a purpose that usually lacks the truth. Penguin Classics does have a decent English "Koran" - read for yourself and then form your own opinion. I guess that is the best advise I can give.
SEATTLE SUNSHINE:
The true face of Islam: by "Richard 1958####
Thank you for speaking out against this violence. Spoken by people who have managed to blend into American society. Too bad we have 10-plus million from the south who won't even speak English.
For the love of Mike, we have FREE SPEECH in this country, and that means that we can say whatever we want, even if it isn't polite. Grow up, those of you who are "hurt" by someone saying what you don't like. Did Americans storm the Saudi embassy after Sept. 11 when it was revealed that most of the hijackers were Saudi citizens??? And that was a actual murderous action!!!
And, the guy who purportedly made the film is an Egyptian Coptic Christian. Why aren't Muslims protesting the Egyptian embassies around the world? Why not protest at Coptic churches? These crowds are just being manipulated by anti-American idealogues.
Just remeber the ORIGIONAL Arab was ISHMAEL WHICH MEANS 'Misery' and that's exactly what they not give to everyone.
Homesick:
With respect--there ARE exceptions to 1st Amendment's "freedom of speech":
Per Wikipedia under "United States free speech exceptions":
Exceptions to free speech in the United States: There are limitations on the First Amendment's guarantee of free speech and expression as recognized by the United States Supreme Court. These exceptions have been created over time, based on certain types of speech and expression, and under different contexts. While freedom of speech in the United States is aconstitutional right, these exceptions make that right a limited one.
Restrictions that are based on people's reactions to words include both instances of a complete exception, and cases of diminished protection. Speech that involves incitement, false statements of fact, obscenity, child pornography, threats, and speech owned by others are all completely exempt from First Amendment protections. Commercial advertising receives diminished, but not eliminated, protection."
Don't know if this film falls into the restrictions and/or exceptions--my point is only that there are some limits to 1st amendment. Lawyers/courts would know better than I.
Sam: "Just remeber the ORIGIONAL Arab was ISHMAEL WHICH MEANS 'Misery' and that's exactly what they not give to everyone."
So, you're saying that Arabs do NOT give everyone "Misery". Good for you! Very big of you and sweet to point this out to others. Thank you, Sam!
this is good....all i gatta say is about time. wish the media would show more muslums like this. The world must under stand that freedom of speech dose mean some time a dumb a s s will say somthing. I saw the vid..it was terrable. pretty sure a 12yr old could of made a better movie on his pc....as the american muslim said in the me they don't understand what freedom of spech realy is. you live here long enough you will soon notice that in Americe Nothing is sacret, every thing will be slammed at best a comic will poke fun at you.....this is why Americans are some of the toughest thick skined bastards in the world.....Just try to get in to a verbal arument with one,,,,see who's feeling get hurt 1st......my bet the American will be the last one standing......I LOVE This contry and that is one of the biggest thing.
we will make fun of you and your mom your dad your gods......
omg thats funny ! learn how to spell retard!! hahahahahahah
see? we can joke here without getting pizzed off
mad-
Your cluelessness is beyond compare. So isn't even worth responding to beyond the suggestion that you then think bullying is a good thing to toughen folks up. "While the weak who cringe and whine when they get picked on deserve what they get. Survival of the fittest has always been the bottom line in life. Bullying is just the way it is. So just deal with it! Or die off and go away, weakling"
Yep! That about spells it to a 'T'.
It only looks like good clean fun to you until the reality of your half-wit BS comes back around to bite your ass off.
FO&D!!!
This is a serious question:
If and when the rest of the world has decided that they have had enough of the Islam faction that feels the need to wipe off the face of the earth the non believing Infidels and start smacking back with a vengeance...
Which side the peaceful Muslims will take.
??????
Jeff N
Apparently you're not award of the fact that the rabid dog zealots will kill the American Muslim's just because they live in peace with the nonbelievers.
But, consider this when you attack American Muslims.
In China, Islam is prohibited as is all religions. Why aren't these rabid dog zealots protesting and attacking China?
Could it be that under Obama's leadership they perceive this country as weak? I'd say so.
What-?
LMFAO! You somehow try to craft Obama into this story any way possible to play politics, with a non political issue.-? What a dipwad. Go get an eductation and learn to think before you go off flappin' irrelevant trash.
Why not bring him in , he's all about the islam thing . I just watch a clip where o'bozo talks about the muslim call to prayer being the prettiest sound he's ever heard .
Many religions have aspects which are beautiful, even to people who aren't members of those religions or even religious. In your tiny little brain, Mr. Obama finds beauty in the Muslim call to prayer because he's a "Muslim sympathizer" who loves "the enemy". For any thinking person (Do you know any?), his finding beauty in the Muslim call to prayer would be indicative of his maturity, intelligence, and ability to connect to our common humanity.
I am a former convert to Islam. I left because I didn't agree with aspects of it, which I criticize to this day, but I found Muslims in America to be every bit as good and kind as other people, cultural baggage not withstanding. That's something they have to deal with. You on the other hand were probably raised IN America and exposed to its ideals. What's your excuse for being the narrow minded lunkhead that your comments reveal you to be? Better a good Muslim for a neighbor than "some brainless dude".
@ Nikolaus20 who said:
I couldn't agree with you more, very well stated. We are all human, it is nice when we focus on what we have in common instead of what we disagree on. There is always room to learn.
Jeff N.-1053549
Obviously a defensive position. We're all human.
The weak willed Muslims fell right into the hands of this idiot producer of this stupid film by acting the way they have. The producer wanted to show how tenuous is the ability to control themselves and how overboard they can go. He succeeded, and Islam has a black eye for their behavior.