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Subscribe to RSSThe Army is pursing manslaughter charges against a soldier in connection with the January death of a comrade in Afghanistan.
The Army initially said Pfc. Neil Turner, 21, of Tacoma, Wash., was killed in a “training accident.”
But according to Turner’s mother, who obtained investigative reports from witnesses, her son was killed when Spc. Francisco Perez fired an armor-penetrating rocket inside Combat Outpost Kherwar in Afghanistan’s Logar province on Jan. 11. The rocket did not detonate but pierced Turner's chest, she said.
Charlotte Cox-Turner told The News Tribune of Tacoma that Perez had been chastised in the past for "horseplay" with weapons that he was in charge of storing at the base.
Perez, who is accused of negligent homicide and failing to obey an order to separate loaded weapons from unloaded ones, is expected to appear at court-martial proceedings next month, according to the newspaper.
Two other soldiers were injured in the incident, Cox-Turner said.
“Neil’s death was totally wasteful and incomprehensible,” Cox-Turner told The News Tribune.
A spokesman for the 1st Armored Division at Fort Bliss, Texas, where Perez is stationed, was not immediately available for comment.
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"...chastised in the past for "horseplay" with weapons..."
There's dumb, then there's Army Dumb.
"Charlotte Cox-Turner told The News Tribune of Tacoma that Perez had been chastised in the past for "horseplay" with weapons that he was in charge of storing at the base."
So says the mother of the victim. Obviously, she's grieving (expectedly) so I wouldn't expect less, nor do I minimize her terrible loss; however, the investigations will reveal the truth and determine if the accused soldier was in fact "chastised," or "horseplay" was involved? Moreover, how is she privy to an ongoing investigation or personnel records to know for certain he was repremanded? Therefore, all we can conclude is her statement is pure supposition and speculation. Let's wait for the whole story before we cast convictions and draw conclusions.
The military lowered enlistment qualifications four times under Bush.
They had to try to find people as stupid as he was.................
the sad and scary thing about it is they were successful
It's sad they have to lower the standards to fill their quotas. The alternative is to be like some other countries & make every able bodied citizen enlist for 2 yrs. That way they don't have to take criminals & less than desirable people. It would get a lot of the out of shape young people in shape making for a healthier population & in case of a national emergency the people would be better trained in how to handle it.
No what's needed is less Army. If we would stop trying to run the world and quit sticking our nose in every other nations business we could have enough competent soldiers. We can't handle our own affairs let alone tell others how to run their countries.
Tragic for everyone...the soldier, the family, & the one that pulled the trigger. You can't bring him back and the soldier may have been reckless, but he will pay for the rest of his life (sentence or no sentence). God Bless them all.
Just wondering why the Army would still allow someone who was know and reprimanded for "horse play" with either live or dummy ammo? I mean like, regardless of the outcome, what moron would authorize this moron to even being close to any ammo? I guess now in addiction to worrying about our "trained Afgan" replacements, now we have to worry about our guys behind us. Thank God I too old to go back in, I'm retired now, but if I was active now I would just smoke any one that's a threat, don't care if your a joker, just business, still have this thing about living. I kinda looked at some of the reply's, Oh so tragic, what a shame, and all the other BS. Listen kids, people die in war, it's not a @!$%#ing Game. It's Real Life. If You @!$%# Up, You Die. Grow Up!!!!!
Yeah because all the Taliban in Afghanistan did was harbor the terrorists that attacked the U.S. on 9/11. We should have asked the U.N. to slap some sanctions on them and called it good right?
Why is it that the liberals can't seem to remember why we went to Afghanistan, and the conservatives can't remember that the economy went into the dumpster during Bushes term?
How sad that this mother has lost her son to the foolishness of another, and it could have been prevented if sterner measures had been taken. The machinery of war in its eternal pursuit of destruction, will always include the careless deaths of ones own troops. Whether from those who goof off, aim poorly or from weapons which fail in one form or another. As a former Marine tt would be wonderful to live in a world were no country needed an army to protect itself from any other nation's aggression. Unfortunately, that isn't the real world we live in. Imaging or thinking that we could just call all soldiers home and we would be peacefully left alone is also naive at best.
The history of mankind aptly demonstrates that those civilizations which were peaceful and kept to themselves were always targeted for conquest. Especially if they had good resources other nations could use. And America is about the richest in total resources of anywhere on earth.What we need therefore, are decent moral soldiers, not soldiers without morals. The last thing that serves us well, are those who, though taking a life will end up being called for, will kill with pleasure and do other evil actions beyond that.
too bad the soldier that screwed up with the horseplay didnt get in trouble in the past for something like slapping a female soldier in the ass, that might have gotten him reprimanded harsher, also why life sentence now, too little too late, he should've been kicked out of the military the first time, screwing around with weapons and all, weapons are soldiers "tools of the trade" so to say, If a construction worker was playing with a nail gun he would be fired on the spot.
I still say it and I'll keep on saying it that the reason why repubs want abortions outlawed is so there will be more poverty stricken kids out there who have NO other recourse than to join the Army if they have any hope of bettering themselves.......why not just bring back the draft....OH WAIT that's right they only like sending OTHER kids into harm's way and not their own!!!
Queenie, the dumbest opinion I have read today. All on the internet are about 1 IQ point less from your stupid and baseless dribble. The US Army is an honorable profession and its dull witted "citizens" like you that attempt to bring it down. You are one sad sad pupp.y
stc1993,
Do you know how stupid you sound?
You would still be getting these ppl in the mix by having to take every able bodied person for 2 yrs!! Do you even have a brain or are you just spouting off without any real thought?
S3usarmy from augusta where did i say that it was NOT an honorable profession....did I hit a nerve there???
ks1971, there are 24 countries in the world that have mandatory service requirements, so it is not something new. They have aptitude tests to see what someone is capable of doing in the service.
The first time they had to tell him about "horseplay" with weapons should have been the last time. He should have been assigned to clean latrines for the duration of his enlistment after that. He should have also been frozen in rank for at least the remaining term of his current enlistment.
Playing with weapons is a grave no no and anyone doing such a thing needs to be kept away from weapons for good.
Yes, he should have been cleaning latrines with a toothbrush until he couldn't even think about horseplay with loaded weapons. Now he just needs to be put away. I wonder if they can make him clean the toilets in military prison for the duration of his sentence?
Latrines are cleaned by private sector contractors. When you have an all volunteer service you don't want to, "turn off ", your employees by making then do the dirty work. They don't do meal prep either, use to be called KP. The only thing they are taught to do is kill or help others kill. Than we wonder why the suicide rate is through the roof. You give 4 years up of your life and end up with few skills that can be of use in the civilian job market. Especially during times of high unemployment.
Kinda like your response, you must be old school, and for us, old school is an insult to the true old school. We can only hope the real old school guys are somewhat Proud of Us. At least hope so, they were so much better than us and kinda understood us. Sorry for the kids though, some have seen their share and then there are others who think this is a joke and I have no pity for people that think this is a joke, but then claim they have PTSD, because they might have thought about killing someone for a minute or two. @!$%# I still wake up, I was never in a war(that I know of), just have problems cause I was a Site Doc, Combat Doc, ran an ER, ran a clinic, ran an SCU, ran a Med Surg Ward. In spite of all my BS, still see the kid from Milford with a history of seizures, with his gums retracting from all the Dilantin, kid needed 20 to 30 mgs of Prince Val before I could start an iv, what was left over from Prince Val I stuck my leg, felt good for awhile, then there was the kid(still worst dream), he hit the ER and went into crash room, cause he looked F--ked, started a line, couldn't figure out what was going on, after what seemed like 5 minutes(a lifetime to me), called for dust off, kid died in flight and still don't know what killed him. Never found out if it was viral or bacterial, regardless, I just wanted to get him to somewhere that was better than us. Ain't gonna go into the SP that blew his brains out, even the ex don't know this, just I needed a new set of whites the next day, I hate the smell of blood.
@ Little - I'm not too sure what that has to do with punishment. You want the punishment to be such that the guy doesn't even think about screwing up again. Just because some company cleans the latrines, doesn't mean you can't have a troublemaker do it with a toothbrush too.
I was in the Marines and army while they were all volunteer from 90 to 2003, we did not have any private contractors cleaning the latrines or heads, it was us volunteers doing it and it did not stop us from wanting to volunteer. Not sure where you are getting your info from, but I hope this is not what has become of the service since I have left. I will have to ask my son who has followed in his old man's footsteps and his now serving in the Navy.
Unfortunately, the Army has idiots in it just like the civilian world. (I know...I'm retired from the Army) The Army needs to be even more selective in their recruitment and add a litmus test to the process, or something like the WABI (Workplace Attitude Behavioral Inventory) test Halliburton uses on civilians who want to play with the Army overseas.
Not all prior-military that go back overseas with KBR want to "play" with the Army. We want to finally earn real money and hopefully provide quality support to our troops who no longer even have to pick up their trash on the ground, nor clean their own clothing.....should I go on?
Brett,
What is wrong with picking up your own trash and doing your own laundry?
And they would have continued to say that if the mother hadn't taken up the investigation herself. I've never understood the military's predilection for official lying to cover its own ass. How can they claim honor and courage if they have to be dragged, kicking and screaming, to tell the truth? What does that do for their credibility, even in those instances where they aren't lying?
At least she's getting farther into investigation than Pat Tillman's mother did. She knew her son was purposely killed, found all kinds of evidence and went before Congress. Still, the deed was covered up and she was brushed off with a smile. I'm glad she made a Movie and recommend it to everyone.
This is related to a "training accident". The guy playing with the weapons was apparently not "trained" on gun safety. so the military was kinda on the right track. The army not providing sufficient training was the accident.
hello,
It was still a training accident, just becasue the idiot behind the trigger has a history of horseplay, doesnt mean it wasnt still an accident which happened while they were training, Jeesh! people!
So unnecessary, heartbreaking, so very sorry for the family.
As much as I support our troops and understand they have to make touch decisions in combat, this is inexcusable. He killed one, but what if the rocket had detonated? He could've blown up other soldiers, he could've blown up locals and children and hurt our global relations further. He could've waged another day of war on American consulates across the globe.
Former Army here.
This stuff happens in every war. Give enough young guys a bunch of explosives/equipment with no consistent day to day activities and this sort of thing is bound to happen. In these types of situations stress plus boredom leads to "creative" forms of entertainment which unfortunately, end up like this.
No E-4 will ever want to hear this but you've gotta keep them working on something, even if it's just rearranging sandbags.
Same sort of stuff happened after World War 2. Whole bunch of armed GIs with no enemy to fight. They still found ways to hurt themselves.
If they are so bored with nothing to do...SEND THEM HOME.
I agree he should be court martialed for at least voluntary manslaughter w/ 10 yrs hard labor at Leavenworth.
Interesting that you say that, Tim-1496116. This very thing is what led to the mutiny on the Bounty. Bligh wasn't the cruel taskmaster he's always portrayed as. Just the opposite - while he and the crew were waiting to make sure the breadfruit trees they potted would live, he let them get soft, and when it was time to go again, they didn't like it.
When did we start addressing our military personel as "comrade"?
I wondered the same thing, and was surprised to see that the story wasn't about some Russians.
Same response here. I guess it was a slip of the tongue. Of course, when you are advocating socialism, as NBC does with it's unequivocal support of the Socialist Obama, it's not surprising that the language will tend to reflect the bias.
Ken-m - since about the Revolutionary war. Comrades in Arms was a common phrase just as Brothers in Arms which led to the term Band of Brothers.
I advise you get your wits about you and pick at other nits. BTW witchrunner, you just sound like a nitwit.
We hope our men and women in uniform experience the benefits of fellowship and trust known as camaraderie. I see camaraderie as a great and irreplaceable word. And of course, we all know it comes from comrade. And it has great history as Vet24 pointed out. Witchrunner and Ken-M are acting phobic, but perhaps they are phobic comrades. (Sorry-Could not resist) As for this deadly incident, I hope the Army handles it with honesty and ethics so that it can be addressed. Bringing this into the open will help. Covering it up will not. The fellow sounds like a problem, that he could not keep his hands off the weapons, during idle time.
vet: Gee, your so smart! You know how to call someone a name. You should be so proud of yourself! Yes, there has been reference to "comrades-in-arms." No, there has not been reference to "comrades." Just googel "comrades" and see all the references. The fact is that it is not a term used here in the US. Just ask any of your "normal" friends, if you have any, what do they think of when the term "comrade" is mentioned and they will tell you they think of the Soviet Union. Well, maybe you don't know anyone over the age of 10, so in that case you can be forgiven.
katherine: I guess, you could say that it is, as Bill Clinton would say, it depends on what the definition of phobic is. Is NBC socialist? Well, they may or may not be but they certainly advocate socialism and the things promoted in a totalitarian society. If you think you are getting the news straight and unbiased from NBC, you need to crawl out of your hole and view the world. In a manner of speaking, Obama and the rest of the libs in power proclaim that they will take care of you. You apparently aren't smart enough to figure out that their message is "people (you) are too stupid to make decisions for themselves, so we will make them for you. How else to explain the media's total failure to investigate Obama? The fact is that they don't want to know, they don't want others to know and they are happy continuing the deception because they are in the good graces of the socialists in power.
Seriously, what has Obama done to help the economy? This is the most unanswered question on the internet. You'd think that there would be swarms of people responding, but it never happens. The only thing that comes up is "tax the rich!" How that will help the middle class is a mystery that even those who are proponents of it can't answer, and refuse to answer. They, instead resort to Allinsky's model, as vet and you have pursued, of calling people names and making fun of them. Too bad they don't require intelligence exams before being allowed to vote. That would get rid of the lib socialists real quick.
I'm sure the use of the word "comrade" was a deliberate and strategic move. Thankfully, you're on the j-o-b to "police" words and thoughts for "subversive" content!!! Funny how some right wing fanatics act like the K.G.B. themselves.
Perez? Serving time in the military in order to fast track citizenship?
After learning about how the military deliberately covered up and lied about the Ft. Hood killer's incompetence just because he was Muslim and they were trying to be PC, nothing surprises me any more.
Army. Enough said.
Ok.. You get bored and start playing around with a loaded Rocket Launcher inside a building? Waiting for the truth.. Just stop posting.. Your comment is just as briliant as this soldier playing with a loaded Rocket Launcher..
Well if you're referring to me, yeah that's exactly what I'm saying. I didn't say it was intelligent. People do stupid sh*t over there.
But thanks for the online tough-guy attitude, I'm in awe of your manliness ;)
Tim-1496116
I think Dtroop82 is talking about the post-er Waiting for the Truth who says that the mother of the dead soldier is just hypothesizing and has no real evidence.
I'm sure the mother has spoken with those who served with her son and that's how she knows about prior "horseplay". But Waiting for the Truth would rather think that the mom is just making stuff up.
And boy! Do you ever speak the truth about keeping the kids busy!! If they get bored enough, pranks and other mischief happens. And if there is just one person who is none too bright, bad things happen.
I'm pretty sure that he didn't intend to be playing around with a loaded rocket launcher, which led to the following:
"Perez, who is accused of negligent homicide and failing to obey an order to separate loaded weapons from unloaded ones"
Granted, when I was in the Marines, we were taught to never aim even an unloaded weapon at anything that we did not intend to shoot and kill, but sometimes people do stupid things. I'm sure he'll have plenty of time to regret his thoughtless actions while he cools his heels in the brig.
put the horse play ass hole in jail for a long time. he can play in jail.
Time to get back to the 'real Army' of Korea and WWII where NCOs could discipline their subordinates for stupid stuff like that without getting mama and Congress involved. This didn't have to happen. Perez should be demoted to pvt and put in the stockade to serve out the rest of his enlistment AFTER serving a 10 year sentence for negligent homicide and dereliction of duty. He also should receive a good thrashing from his immediate superior for disobeying orders.
Damn !
If he was horse playing with a "LAW" Rocket launcher he was using a weapon that is difficult to put back together for safe storage if I remember correctly. It is a one shot disposable tube and leaves a mean sunken chest wound if it didn't spin for the required distance to become armed. I fail to see how one could horseplay in a bunker with it. I talked to a young man who just finished a tour recently and he said it was the most boring year he ever spent in his young life. He said it was a filthy desolate country with extremes of temperature every day.
The US is there to prop up its puppet gov't to destabilize the region. Mission Accomplished.
I'm thinking it wasn't a LAW. There would have been a few more soldiers with burn injuries from the back blast of firing that within a confined space. But, yeah, the LAW has to be extended like a telescope to get it operational. You don't ever keep it in the firing configuration. Most of the Regular Army is no longer issued the LAW, anyway. They have more AT-4s and the confined space (CS) version. Regardless....
Regarding horseplay with weapons, I was assigned to an Afghan National Army border post in 2006. One night there was a gunshot from the ANA "hooch" and lots of yelling. From what we could piece together from the witnesses, one of the young ANA Soldiers was swinging his AK-47 by the barrel and trying to smack another ANA Soldier in the butt with it (horseplay). Rifle went off and the round shot him right through the upper groin and exited out of his buttock. It missed the femoral and the pelvis somehow. Still lots of blood, one ANA out of action, 3-4 of his fellow Soldiers to evac him back to the FOB. They had their own Chain of Command and their own NCOs living on top of them, and they knew proper weapons discipline; however, young soldiers during down time are the same the world over. If they can find trouble, they will. If they can't find trouble, they will make it.
Since when has any Army personnel referred to a fellow Soldier as a "Comrade".. Shows how ignorant and out of touch with reality the Journalist is along with his obvious bias towards American Soldiers but supports the Socialists in the U.S. and USSR who call each other "Comrades".. NBC...Never Been Creditable......
You're reaching for complaints. Get onto something larger like the boldface gov't lying.
Eddie S; since about the Revolutionary war. Comrades in Arms was a common phrase just as Brothers in Arms which led to the term Band of Brothers.
You are the one out of touch with reality. Hope you are getting good money from the right-wing goons for trolling on the inter-tubes.
Instead of posting idiocy on websites, why don't you put your butt where your mouth is and put on a uniform and serve the country. Oh- I forgot, most of the right-wing likes to start wars but expect others to fight them. Ask Mitt about his horrible tour of duty in France during 'nam and his 5 sons, none of whom thought it necessary to personally defend America.
The gov't lied to the mother about her son's death. Bush lied about Tillman, Iraq, and casualties. Obama lies about the "Arab Spring." Why does anyone believe the gov't BS at all? It's just a front for hundreds of billions of dollars to be spent by Ivy League sociopaths who don't care who gets killed.
Yup, poor bastards, 5 tours later and they are going ape @!$%# and blaming PTSD for what problems the Pentagon bastards have continued to cause our shell (((shocked))) warriors. Hey AmeriKKKa, the Taliban have defeated your pale what asses, just like the Viet Cong did in Vietnam, as we speak. So pack up and as the Pentagon bandits prepare something easier to defeat like the cannibals in American Samoa. LOL!
And to think the Pentagon is now packing up its war toys and headed for the South China Sea to see what other mischief they can get AmeriKKKa into. But, remember, 'fugging' with your banker could put you into Chapter 11 bankruptcy - and pronto!
Accidents and horseplay happen all the time in the Military.
This sentence is what scares me,
Comrade? That is the best word they could come up with? NBC has once again stepped in it. Yes, "comrade", has been used in the past. But typically by fellow soldiers, not someone reporting about an accident. I have to assume NBC is just stirring the pot. How unfortunate they chose this tragedy to show how edgy they can get with their vocabulary.
I am sorry for this Soldier's Family's lost and someday they find peace.
Definition of "comrade" (noun)
1. A person who shares in one's activities, occupation, etc.; companion, associate, or friend.
2. A fellow member of a fraternal group, political party, etc.
C'mon guys--let's not get your knickers in a knot over a word, ok? This soldier was killed. I doubt he'd have cared about calling his brother in arms his "comrade," ya know?
See, now this is why I don't believe in conspiracy theories. This was an incident with one guy accidentally killing another guy, and the Army couldn't cover it up. They tried, and it didn't work.
There's always somebody willing to talk and blow the lid on the whole thing.
There's dumb then there's stupid. Even supposedly smart people do stupid things. They don't really mean to do stupid things but they do. I knew of two officers in Vietnam that almost blew themselves up trying to disarm a grenade. Why were they trying to disarm a grenade ? Because they wanted to see if they could. Duh !!
I heard of another story of two soldiers messing around and one pointed his m16 at the other with a clip in it. The other soldier not knowing that there was a round chambered and the rifle was on automatic grab the end barrel and jerked on. The first soldier hung on to it and his finger hit the trigger. A short burst and one soldier badly wound. The question was: why was the M16 loaded ? Answer was: I didn't realize it was. Conclusion: shot by friendly fire. STUPID IS STUPID DOES....
and then you'll have those who blindly support the military and that civilians just can't understand, blah blah blah. The military is full of racist thugs and frustrated highschool football heros.
The stupidist thing here is the ignorant people with their panties in a bunch over the use of the word "comrade." Geez, anyone who ever took an English class from 5th grade on can understand why the reporter used the word. The word comrade is not exclusive to communism, but you might think so if you got your education from watching movies. A comrade is any companion or person you share an experience with. In this case it makes for a more brief and less awkward headline than "Fellow Soldier killed Soldier with Grenade Launcher, Victim's Mother Says." What word would you substitute for the word comrade? Co-worker?
Comradeiside? Friggen idiot.
Perez is an idiot who probably shouldn't have been allowed into the army as it appears that his IQ is low or zilch. I know that this soldiers mother is grief stricken but she should be suing the individual and not the army.
Poor leadership caused this. Horse play with weapons should have been an indicator this guy needed to be doing something other than handling weapons.