i don't know what the british would do ...but does the guy in the picture look like Boy George in a uniform...

More like Eminem in uniform

plain bob.........................the guy in the picture looks exactly like God made him. And you have a problem with that? You're of such low level intelligence, that you can only comment on how people look, not what is being discussed?

Lets not destroy our military just because it is politically correct to do certain things that are out of public code of conduct...

The military is a place of discipline, a might to defend our country, constitution and to bring about justice and peace and an envy to the rest of the world. It should not be a place to front one's sexual activities...

Our Military is the greatest on earth, lets not de-"moralize" the institution, ... "literally" and "figuratively" speaking

There is nothing wrong with being gay but he knew this was the law of the land at the time.

Unfortunately, even people who were in jail when prohibition was repealed had to serve out their time.

Let it go - move on - you'll feel lighter once you drop this baggage

Doc...................Exactly, you dumb-ass. Our military is supposed to help bring about justice. And allowing gays to do what everybody else can does just that. Idiot.

Let's dig up as many 20 year-old-stories as possible to keep that gay sympathy train rollin!.

No new gay story for today? Go back in history and find one.. Pathetic.

SoSickoftheGop Apparently you have never served. It is NOT the military's job to bring about justice. The military's job is to defend the country, nothing more. Justice is left to the congress and the courts. You are the typical dumb-ass idiot that spouts crap he knows nothing about. Maybe you should spend your time getting educated, instead of posting stupid remarks on posts.

How do I know this? You have no idea of what you are talking about, so you use name calling.

Thank you "51msg", my sentiment exactly!

Our Military is the greatest on earth, lets not de-"moralize" the institution, ... "literally" and "figuratively" speaking

So your proof that homosexuals "de-moralize" anything is...?

Oh, right, I forgot. A couple of dumbass religions that aren't universally shared.

Thanks "51msg", exactly what majority of us think....

I am not going to argue with some bitch running his mouth around...

Point already made...

When I was a young troop many years ago we had a "Don't ask, don't Tell" policy also. But that pertained to what was in our "C" rations.

The sentiment about C rations is about right....no one could have answered the question anyway as the only ones who knew for sure what was in them were the ones who canned them. The contents wil forever remain a mystery and that is just about how long before the expiration dates are reached as well.

51mg: "You are the typical dumb-ass idiot that spouts crap he knows nothing about. Maybe you should spend your time getting educated, instead of posting stupid remarks on posts.

How do I know this? You have no idea of what you are talking about, so you use name calling.'

HILARIOUS!!! Were you being sarcastic? Because, if not, look in the mirror! hehehe! You complain about name calling and that's all your post does--call another poster names!

So, 51MG, does this mean " you have no idea what you are talking about?" I AGREE! YOU DON'T! But thanks for the giggle anyway...

,@Iwill; Who told you Obama does all that stuff? Obama? He has done nothing for the military except try to dismantle it, his opinion of the military is equal to that of the space program, and his support is reflected in the unemployment figures, he takes credit for everything and applies himself in nothing unless it involves flying in his jet or playing golf at the expense of the tax payers, how much do you think it cost the tax payers for him to hop on Air Force one and fly across the US to play golf? that is if the first lady or one of his daughters isn't using it, and Biden is just as bad with his weekly play trips in his jet yes the VP has a jet furnished to him to play with as he wishes, we do not have a leader in America today, what we have is a herd of liberals dictating what they think is PC and shoving their opinions down every ones throat. its called team Obama made up of radical socialist and commies from the hippie era, people that dream to much and don't have a clue about the real world because they all live in a fantasy world, and they still have flashbacks from all the LSD they took as kids, there biggest real problem is keeping Bill C out of there coke stash. and a possible shortage of aluminum foil, because of the liberals demand for tin foil hats so they can block out the truth. well come November the real voters will come out and blow them away, the real voters are the ones that keep to themselves till the election then turn the phoney media surveys into so much useless dribble. Obama has done nothing but Party at our expense and the Party is almost over.

The guy new the score when he enlisted and still did not play by the rules at the time, its his fault ignore him he will go away, just another Liberal looking for a handout, its so disgusting to see all these people that think the world owes them something where do they think all this money comes from, I cant wait till the pendulumswings in the other direction and this march of the Lemmings is over. correction Liberals. if you liberals keep whining and screwing around with all our rights and our capitalist based economy you are going to find out what the conservative meaning of "Politically Correct" means. you cant keep changing the rules of the game because you want to, the rules are there for a reason so play by the rules or get out of the game., go somewhere else and play. you are screwing this game up.

Okay, am I the only one on this page? In the workplace this would be called sexual harassment. Men don't kiss unless they're into men. What a guy can't feel weird about a gay guy in their room? Who knows if a guy will take a innocent act as a hint of future "activity" I know as a woman that I could say a dozen times to a guy from church that "I think of you as a brother" and still have him push and another that stalked me 6 years because I innocently said my mother was schizophrenic (okay now you are all going to say I'm f#cked up). That guy sent me a proposal in the mail! It creaps me out when a woman would look at me weird. It's worse when it goes so fay as proposition you. That's happened to me as well.

Being gay is not wrong. How one acts being gay is wrong. You all remember Kitty Russel from Gundmoke. She died from aids at 60 which she got from her bisexual husband Mark Spaeth.

A terrible waste of a beautiful person. The life expectancy of gays is much less than non gay people. I will leave it up to you with mighty brains to find the scientific links.

Gays are violent and aggressive. Personal experience is that gays are aggressive. They want to poke a straight or a gay. I found out personally that gays don't understand the word "NO!"

So I have many reasons personal and scientific not to have gays in the military.

Remember gays are an error of nature, they were never intended to be gay when they were born. As bad a mistake as a dog with three legs.

The life expectancy of gays is much less than non gay people. I will leave it up to you with mighty brains to find the scientific links.

So you have no problem making statements with absolutely NO evidence to back them up -- typical hypocritical bigot.

Gays are violent and aggressive. Personal experience is that gays are aggressive. They want to poke a straight or a gay. I found out personally that gays don't understand the word "NO!"

Heterosexuals are violent and aggressive, too. And again, you base your statement on your "personal experience" -- not scientific fact.

Remember gays are an error of nature, they were never intended to be gay when they were born. As bad a mistake as a dog with three legs.

If they are an "error of nature," then please explain -- scientifically -- why homosexuality has been documented in at least 1,500 animal species (besides humans).

sosickofgop...he still resemble's boy george...every picture says a thousand words...most every body ain't has smart as you like to think you are ...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YTyukkRVt7c

ErinNJ Crawl back in your precomputer cage and tell me you discussed this with your school principal. There is enough scientific evidence that even you can type in goggle "gays & life expectancy" I never had a heterosexual slip his hand between my thighs and bring gay porno magazines to a party.

You are an error of nature by refusing to understand basic scientific information. You never heard of Kinsey? When 98% of women are straight and only 2 % are lesbians, you don't understand that is an error of nature. Tell me your principal's name and telephone number. Someone at your school has to know about you and your weird thinking. Tell Amanda Blake that gays and bisexuals are not errors of nature. She got aids from her bisexual husband and had her life cut short over 20 years.

Go to IMDB and type in Amanda Blake and read how she got aids from her husband. Then check out how long her husband lived as a bisexual. Then check out how long her bisexual husband's gay lover lived. When a species dies much sooner than normal, it is a mistake of nature.

Just give me your principal's name and telephone number. You need to be relieved of your position in the school you work on the grounds of lack of intelligence.

So Amanda Blake is the only example you can come up with? THAT'S your "scientific proof"?

Spare us, little boy. You're nothing more than a troll.

BTW, you have been reported as a re-reg stalker.

I really don't care how Amanda Blake died; she is certainly not representative of EVERYONE who is married to bisexuals. Why are you so fixated on her? It must be because nothing else even comes close to supporting your claims -- certainly no reputable scientific or medical studies do.

Why are you so interested in where I work? What kind of sick troll are you?

Scientific fact has proven that gays are aggressive amongst themselves and heterosexuals. You never heard of their infamous bath houses and daisy chains.

"Scientific fact" -- according to whom? You? I don't accept YOU as a credible source of anything (unless it's misinformation and lies).

The human race procreates and advances due to an egg from a female of the species being fertilized by the male of the species. There never has been a procreation by two men having anal sex or two women indulging in sex play.

What does procreation have to do with this discussion?

This stupidity factor you have been blessed with, is it nature or nurture? You know like the debate about homosexuality. Does it run in the genes or does it come from nurture? How far back does this stupidity you have constantly shown on the net run back in your family?

That, along with all of your other trollish bull@!$%#, has been reported.

ofcourse1:

So I have many reasons personal and scientific not to have gays in the military.

Remember gays are an error of nature, they were never intended to be gay when they were born. As bad a mistake as a dog with three legs.

Technical Sergeant Leonard P. Matlovich (July 6, 1943 – June 22, 1988) was a Vietnam War veteran, race relations instructor, and recipient of the Purple Heart and the Bronze Star.

Matlovich was the first gay service member to purposely out himself to the military to fight their ban on gays, and perhaps the best-known gay man in America in the 1970s next to Harvey Milk.

His tombstone, meant to be a memorial to all gay veterans, does not bear his name. It reads:

"When I was in the military, they gave me a medal for killing two men and a discharge for loving one."

The only "three legged dog" in the room ofcourse1, is clearly you.

What a guy can't feel weird about a gay guy in their room?

personally, I couldn't care less what another guy thinks as long as he doesn't touch me. (I would think most women can also agree that they don't care as long as the guy doesn't touch without permission).

I like the Ladies, plain and simple, a gay can dream all he wants, it's not going to change a thing.

I'm not the thought police, nor do I want to be.

on the other hand, I heard a "christian" preacher on the radio promising that the "true believers" would be able to read peoples thoughts and walk through walls to "smack the heads of those that had impure thoughts". all I could think was "what kind of psychotic eff would want to do that?"

Remember gays are an error of nature, they were never intended to be gay when they were born. As bad a mistake as a dog with three legs.

just like Hitler talking about Jews...

a##holes are a "mistake of nature" too, how are you here?

Gays are violent and aggressive. Personal experience is that gays are aggressive. They want to poke a straight or a gay. I found out personally that gays don't understand the word "NO!"

--

I never had a heterosexual slip his hand between my thighs and bring gay porno magazines to a party.

So you base your rather incorrect knowledge on the activities of singular individuals? Very well then, I'll base my knowledge on the activities of the 90% of male-male child rapes committed by heterosexuals. Obviously, heterosexual males must be pedophiles then. /s

Remember gays are an error of nature, they were never intended to be gay when they were born. As bad a mistake as a dog with three legs.

Scientifically false and without a shred of evidence otherwise. Please learn when to stop talking.

Errors of nature, like you, are not intelligent enough to extrapolate or do searches on the net

Seriously, you need to learn to stop eating your feet. Oh, and you've been reported for your constant stream of personal attacks, re-reger, as well as harassment (its pretty clear you came here seeking to insult ErinNJ in particular) and stalking.

Run away, little troll, run away.

Allswell, an example proves a scientific point or are you as dumb as ErinNJ? You want a 50 page scientific report published here that you can't understand and find boring after the fist page? You need help reading the English language as does ErinNJ does and she works in a Northern New Jersey school. She has stated that she had discussions with her principal. I want to verify that. She is either a liar or delusional. If she is proud of her viewpoint give me the name and telephone number and I will verify.

Gang rapes and prison rapes are common. Tell me that those are not aggressive and don't spread aids. Look up aids and prison population. Are you intelligent enough to do that?

Look up the definition of errors of nature and get back to me. Louts like you and ErinNJ make statements that they can't support. Show me anywhere, anyone, anytime that someone has said that being gay is a normal condition for the human race. Just because you say it doesn't make it true. Actually the reverse is true. You have an agenda and are trying to push it. Therefore you are wrong in everything you write.

Gee I am so afraid of you allswell! I am reported! You are so dimwitted that you can't conceive and put forth scientific opinions and research that you have to go crying to mama. MAMA I AM BEING BEAT UP WITH SCIENTIFIC OPINIONS BY RECOGNIZED AUTHORS AND RESEARCH BY SCIENTIFIC METHODS THAT I WANT YOU TO GO AFTER THIS PERSON.

What a jerk you are. ErinNJ came after me. My first comment was a blanket statement. Gee you gays and lesbians really stick together. You don't have anything in your favor so you have to attack free speech. You need to be lesbians and gays. You just will not last that long on this planet as scientific research and tables on age definitely show. Go home and cry with ErinNJ.

ofcourse1:

With currently 7 billion people, there has been breed many errors of nature. Some are born blind, without limbs or mentally incompetent.

Unfortunate for you and the rest of the world, you seem to have been bred into the third category of your self described "errors of nature", "mentally incompetent".

ErinNJ You I saved for last to impress on everyone else you lack of intelligence and your lying. You promised to give the commenters the name of your school and principal, as you stated you had spoken to him about you loud mouth, ill conceived views and that he agreed with you.

We all know you lied about talking to the principal and that you would give everyone the name of the school and the person you talked to. YOU LIED!

Once a person is caught in a lie, nothing further he/she has to say has any validity.

I am sure that that beautiful person Amanda Blake's husband didn't tell her he was bisexual and as she died from an aids related illness, he was intentionally wanton not to use protection to protect her. And of course he was unfaithful and unfaithful to her with another man!

That is how aids is spread and why millions are dying today because they are as selfish and stupid as you.

Amanda Blake's example is exactly how aids gets from the gay population to the HETEROSEXUAL POPULATION.

ErinNJ you are sick and mentally ill. I remember when I was a child, the town had a health inspector and anyone with a contagious disease was quarantined in the house until the contagious period was over.

People with aids who refuse to protect people against their illness should be quarantined. Who wants aids related diseases to be passed on? Your stupidity is showing.

ErinNJ You boasted about your education and the fact you worked in a school in Northen New Jersey. You boasted how you discussed all these issues you injected into the conversation with your principal. As you are calling into doubt the proof I have from world reknown scientists and doctors and you are challenging their findings and have said you discussed these issues with you principal, I want to talk to him to verify what you said. You told me that you want proof about my assertions. Well I want proof about your assertions if you have them. Otherwise you are a plain ordinary liar.

Again you are too insipid to look up the information on the net and verify my statements. I can do it and you can't. That automatically makes me infinitely more intelligent than you. But you statements have demonstrated that for as long as you have been on the net. You can't do searches and you can't declare the names of documents and scientific studies or internet sites.

You are one big advocate of the big lie. Tell it loud enough and often enough and someone will believe you. I don't. Maybe you ought to tell the convict who is suing the federal government because he was gang raped that it was just demonstrations about interracial brotherly love!

At least we know you didn't attend a college with the nonsense you are spouting. You don't know scientific facts and how scientists work and publish their works. Maybe you work as a cleaning lady in the school?

Another stupid statement from you. If you weren't procreated, you wouldn't be making so many asinine statements. And of course I have seen hundreds of your ridiculous statements being challenged and your failure to understand anything about procreation and the advancement of quality of the human race. Crawl back into your cave and gnaw on a bone.

Great when you can't have a reply, you have to threaten. As it makes a bit of difference. Everyone knows what you are. The only problem is it nature or nurture. As with homosexuality, it is still being discussed. Your lack of intelligence is laughable. Thank you for giving everyone who reads this exchange a good laugh. Now I want to report you to your school board, principal and school. I have a good idea which school as you have bragged so much and have revealed so much about the school and your family. Maybe I will take a few hours and spend a few dollars and track you down. You do know that I have hard copied your ridiculous statements and would love to discuss you with your principal.

GEE ERINNJ I AM SHAKING IN MY BOOTS! YOU ARE GOING TO REPORT ME! Does that mean I will get a B- in deportment? Will you tell the teacher to put on my report card that I can't play nicely with other children? Are you going to get into the files when everyone has left and change my grades?

Gang rapes and prison rapes are common. Tell me that those are not aggressive and don't spread aids. Look up aids and prison population. Are you intelligent enough to do that?

You do realize rape has very little to do with sexuality, right? Rape is about power. What's more, nearly all prison rape is committed by heterosexual males.

Show me anywhere, anyone, anytime that someone has said that being gay is a normal condition for the human race

Normal is a subjective qualifier that differs from person to person and is based upon personal viewpoints. "Natural" is objective, and homosexuality is natural (IE, exists in nature without human interference). So you're wrong again.

SCIENTIFIC OPINIONS BY RECOGNIZED AUTHORS AND RESEARCH BY SCIENTIFIC METHODS

You mean the "opinions" and "research" you've done? Hah!

Yet still you continue to prove that you are nothing more than a sad little troll with a boner for stalking ErinNJ and harassing/insulting people. Pitiful.

Reported for your continued personal attacks.

Debi-1314897 Ah you do admit that there are errors in procreation! And thus you must agree that homosexuals are one of those errors of nature!

Thank you for giving everyone who reads this exchange a good laugh.

The truth of your narcissistic matter ofcourse1 is, the only one laughing is you.

ErinNJ what are you doing using school time to be on the internet, reading comments and writing? You are stealing from the school system. You should be doing your job, sweeping or what ever. People have been fired for using the internet during work hours for personal use. Like I said I have hard copied your foul mouthed comments and ridiculous comments and the TIME AND DAYS you have made them. There should be no doubt that you are stealing from your city public school system by using the computer for you public use and not spending that time doing the job you were hired for. It will probably take me 2-3 hours to find you and then we will see what you principal, you and I on a three way conversation have to say.

Now I want to report you to your school board, principal and school. I have a good idea which school as you have bragged so much and have revealed so much about the school and your family. Maybe I will take a few hours and spend a few dollars and track you down. You do know that I have hard copied your ridiculous statements and would love to discuss you with your principal.

Reported for threatening an individual, threatening harassment/stalking, and threatening slander.

Debi-1314897 As you have not attended a university and don't have an education, you are not familiar with the bell shaped curve that exists and is explained in detailed in psychology classes. In the very small percentage of people which composes your substandard intelligence group, there is a corresponding HUGE group that are intelligent and can understand the joke is on you.

allswell why don't you save your energy and just copy what ErinNJ and Debi-1314897 wrote. Poor little boy got bested in a discussion and has to run home to mommy and cry in her apron.

Allswell, you can save me a couple of hours and just tell me which school ErinNJ works at and I will take it from there. As you and Deb and Erin are playing in the same playhouse, I imagine you all know each other very well.

Reporting ErinNJ is not a threat. It is a fact that will be carried out. If none of you have the fortitude to stand behind your statements and allow them to be published with your name, then you are infatuate with your self esteem to make ridiculous comments and don't want to be associated with them in the public's eye. I am very content to be on a panel to stand up for my opinions and have you three on the other panel trying to make your points.

Also allswell and deb, if you have jobs, you both are stealing from your employers by using the companys' computers to be on the internet when you should be working for the company that is paying you. Of course with people like you, you will try and rationalize the time you stole from your companys to be on the net, not doing the work you are being paid for and laughing up your sleeves at how cleverly you have devised to sneak in time during the day to be on the net while you should be working.

Erin/Debi

Its obvious ofcourse1 just likes to hear themselves talk, so at this point you may as well not bother attempting further discourse with them. Just report their infractions and move on.

allswell then shut up:)

You three remind me of three schoolchildren who were told to stay after school for talking in class and after detention ran home to cry to their mamas that the mean teacher caught them talking in class and had to stay afterschool in detention.

Then they ran home and complained to mama! "We got punished!" and we want you to talk to the principal about the MEAN teacher!

Back on course.

"When I was in the military, they gave me a medal for killing two men and a discharge for loving one."

I've heard this story many times, and its sad every time. That we dishonored so many servicemembers simply for who they loved is a blight on our history.

Allswell then according to you the 20,000 current and ex military men who are in jail in the U.K. should be released as they volunteered for the armed forces and then committed crimes while they were in the armed forces or had been in the armed forces?

Who forced them to join the armed forces? Who forced them to commit crimes while in the armed forces or after leaving the armed forces? If 99% of the members of the armed forces don't commit crimes during or after duty, why should this small sub population be given favored status and not be penalized for their crimes.

Use your argument the next time you are given a ticket or arrested....but officer.....there wasn't a no parking sign here last week! Or I didn't know the unlocked car's stereo wasn't mine!

Very insipid wrong headed liberal thinking. After the fact, change the law so I can't be found guilty.

allswell:

It obviously made a big impact on me, which is why I will repeat it at every opportunity.

In regards to ignoring ofcourse1, ofcourse1 who?

allswell, can you explain one thing?

why, exactly, other than the blind hatred that you carry, should I care what two people do?

what gay people do has no effect on me positive or negative. that being the case, why should I ethically deny them the right to be happy? you make the claim that gays have a shorter lifespan . if this is so, then it is probable that it could be attributed to the promiscous lifestyle of some gays, yet a promiscous lifestyle also leads to a reduced lifespan among heterosexuals (a grouping of which I happen to be part of), since it is the increasded transmission rate of STD's that is responsible for said reduced lifespan. with this as a fact, then the only logical reaction would be to promote gay marriage as an alternative to the promiscous lifestyle that shortens their lifespan

Of course with people like you, you will try and rationalize the time you stole from your companys to be on the net, not doing the work you are being paid for and laughing up your sleeves at how cleverly you have devised to sneak in time during the day to be on the net while you should be working.

again with the personal attacks with absolutely no knowledge of what is actually true (but very typical for you and the right in general). I would absolutely be on the floor laughing if they worked night shift, swing shift, or some other variable hours, proving yet again what an arrogant, pompous a$$ you are.

sorry allswell, the previous comment was aimed at the arrogant clown "ofcourse1".

allswell, can you explain one thing?

sorry allswell, the previous comment was aimed at the arrogant clown "ofcourse1".

I was wondering! Thanks for clearing that up.

It obviously made a big impact on me, which is why I will repeat it at every opportunity.

Agreed.

You put Hitler and the holocaust in this to stir up emotions. Typical liberal leftist trick. Better take a good look in your mirror. People who refer to that horror are usually the first ones to advocate its reoccurrrence.

says the person advocating concentration camps for gays, and threatening others using the "report your neighbor" tactics of the communist, east-german Stazi and the nazis. remember, hitler rounded up the gays too. he also banned communists, atheists, and unions, all darling goals of the religious nutcase, extremist right. people whose goals mirror the old goals of the nazis perfectly. your very threats to "report " erinnj is a perfect example of the nazi mentality

sorry, but your own proclamations belie your real desires.

@ 51msg & others...

I *WAS* in the military, and DID get discharged for being gay before DADT. I had planned on being career, and had devoted my life to that goal. I was dedicated to serving and protecting my Country and it's citizens. What difference does it make who I or anyone loves as long as they are consenting adults? How does that affect the military? Do you have proof? Or just fear and prejudice? Or a religious belief? - If the last, remember that "freedom of religion" includes freedom from having the religious views of others imposed upon you.

but its yuckeeeeee, i don't want to know you might do something yyuuuuccckkkeeeeee! waaaahhhh!

that's the usual argument, either that or magical sky-fairies.

now...play nice...

I had planned on being career, and had devoted my life to that goal. I was dedicated to serving and protecting my Country and it's citizens.

Sounds like absolute BS to me. If you knew, and they do ask and tell you prior to induction, being in the military and being a homosexual (obviously practicing) was against the UCMJ and all military regulations how could you in good faith say "devoted my life to that goal?" You efforts were flawed from the moment you took the oath and lied. Sounds more like you were trolling very early on in your “career” and got caught in the shower or sharing a "bunk."

If you had become a career NCO or Officer you would have been repsonsible for insuring the UCMJ was enforced and rules followed. Or would it have been a matter of enforcing the UCMJ/rules on you agree with or wish to follow. You obviously didn’t and couldn’t have “devoted my life to that goal.”

I think the military did the American Public a favor in tossing you out. You knowingly and blatantly chose to violate “the rules” beginning with lies when you enlisted and therefore cannot be trusted. It is not a "gayness" issue, it is a misconduct/integrity issue.

Stop trying to rationalize your behavior and misbehavior to us and to yourself. You did not and could not have served honorably. We aren’t buying the @!$%# and neither should you.

I think the military did the American Public a favor in tossing you out. You knowingly and blatantly chose to violate “the rules” beginning with lies when you enlisted and therefore cannot be trusted. It is not a "gayness" issue, it is a misconduct/integrity issue.

And you're the kind of person that would probably have required a "waiver" to enlist. The sort we don't want but will gladly use as fodder.

Seriously, Buzz, where the hell do you get off in calling servicemembers who wished only to serve their country and were kicked out under discriminatory policies as anything but the heroes they are?

The only one lacking honor here is you.

allswell

wthat would probably have required a "waiver" to enlist. The sort we don't want but will gladly use as fodder.

kicked out under discriminatory policies as anything but the heroes

You got it way wrong again Joker.

He was kicked out because of disciplinary policies not discriminatory policies. He knew the rules at the time and could not or would not abide by them. As such he did not serve honorably and is not a hero. He wanted to hide, for whatever reason, his homosexuality and simply got caught. Had he made it point
of honor and declared he was gay to make a point at least he would have some small amount of respectability. He was a weak coward living a lie and now crying about the results of his own bad decisions.

Does he take the world, or than you and your ilk, to be fools. Only a liar or dimwit would claim he had always wanted to be a career military guy and think he could serve 20 or more years as a practising homosexual without getting caught. Every time he committed such an act he was in violation fo the law. If he planned on practicing astinence he didn't make it very far.

He was not drafted and stuck in an awkward situation with few choices. He went ahead into the military knowing full well the rules and knowing he was in violation. Defend it if you wish, but he was just plain wrong. I suppose you can then defend any breach that you agree with and criticize those who do not agree with you. Yet at the same time you demand that other slavishly adhere to your beliefs and accept them lest they incur your contempt.

Whatever you feel about the policies of the past is of no import. Live with it just as we must tolerate having gays on active duty today. In addition to serious violators, there were tens of thousands of pot smokers (thought it was OK), AWOLs/Deserters (decided war was wrong), alcoholics (saw no harm in their actions while drunk), gays (thought it was ok) and other booted for many years. Should we just forgive them for doing wrong, even though pot use is not as serious and offense as it was, maybe the war was not the right
one at the right time, etc. You liberals want to rationalize everything away and salve it over. That is not how life works.

Regarding my serving - I was drafted and served with the 199th Light Infantry in Vietnam in 1968/69 and was honorably discharged. My discharge says honorable and I can assure you I never had sex with my fellow soldiers or desired to. I did not smoke pot while on active duty and did my best to stay within the
rules. Such are the actions of a responsible individual in a responsible society. I may not be a medal of honor winner, but I served my country honorably and faithfully and have every right to be proud.

In order for you to question my service, let's hear about yours. Did you even serve or were of the ilk as your butt budy now...play nice...?

You have a man who has a less than honorable discharge on paper because he violated the rules. You defend him and call him honorable and hero. Then you have the audacity to question my and many, many others like me and their honorable service. I am not generally a violent person, but even at 64 if I met you on the street and heard your disparaging remarks about "real vets who served honorably" I would kick your ass or find help to do so. You are somewhere at the very bottom of cesspool and have nothing but faux praise for those who served. You are nothing but a whining and snivewling liberal crying for attention.

Again I ask did you serve or was there a legal/moral prohibition on you doing so?

He was kicked out because of disciplinary policies not discriminatory policies.

Do you honestly thing those qualifiers are mutually exclusive? Wow.

Every time he committed such an act he was in violation fo the law. If he planned on practicing astinence he didn't make it very far.

Its abstinence, for one, and he was kicked out for kissing a guy while drunk. I see nothing that says he had sex with someone. Please try reading.

Live with it just as we must tolerate having gays on active duty today.

I don't tolerate it: I revel in it. Everybody provides their own flavor to the military which is needed to represent the best of the USA.

Regarding my serving - I was drafted and served with the 199th Light Infantry in Vietnam in 1968/69 and was honorably discharged.

Thanks for your service in a difficult time. That said:

but I served my country honorably and faithfully and have every right to be proud.

So did the man in this story. The UCMJ doesn't prohibit homosexuality, it prohibits (or prohibited) sodomy. Tell me where there is sodomy in this story?

In order for you to question my service, let's hear about yours. Did you even serve or were of the ilk as your butt budy now...play nice...?

Current active duty.

You have a man who has a less than honorable discharge on paper because he violated the rules.

Actually he has an honorable discharge.

I am not generally a violent person, but even at 64 if I met you on the street and heard your disparaging remarks about "real vets who served honorably" I would kick your ass or find help to do so.

I'm sure you'd try. One problem with your contention: having served before doesn't make you right, it just means you have a different view than most civilians will. When there was a threat of mass separation by the bigots for DADT being removed, I cheered. Anybody like that does not belong in a service where the person next to them will rely on their support, regardless of gender, religion, sexuality, etc. There is only one qualifier in a foxhole: servicemember.

Spoeken by someone who obviously has not served. It does affect us and I have seen the effects. I have also seen the mental anguish suffered by those who were sexually attacked (myself included) from another male and nothing can be done because it is your word against theirs..

Alan, welcome to the world of women. We have had to deal with this for thousands of years. I had to deal with this when I was in the Navy. I'm not saying it's right but you can't condemn all gays for the bad actions of a few anymore than you can condemn all men for the bad actions of a few.

As a Captain in the Army, we have seen no sexual attacks of male on male advances, yet male on female sexual attacks happen at an alarming rate. Homosexuality has been allowed in most European countries militaries for decades with no detrimental effects. If you were truly raped, the military takes that very seriously and it is not a "your word against theirs" situation, but a full on investigation. So please stop spreading lies about our superior military men and women, and maybe you should really enlist instead of just pretending like you served.

In the words of your President, "the military is all voluntary" when referring to benefits to wounded & maimed soldiers. When Mr. Henley enlisted, he knew the rules and chose to violate them. He paid the consequences. The Seal that exposes the truth about the Bin Laden raid is no different, Oh wait, one is about a gay and the other exposes lies told by your president and the media. The gay should be given a pass and the Seal should have the book thrown at him. Rightttt!

Thank you Caption. What you are saying is the truth with one exception. There are two ways a women/man can handle the sexuall assault by going to the xo and putting in a complaint then either by full investigation or the hush hush investigation. Sorry I can't remember the terms the xo had for it but even with witnesses the victim in this case was told to take the hush hush route. Sexual assault is like you say at an alarming rate, and i am sure that there are men that are victims as well but men usually don't report it especially in the military. There are also a lot women that don't report it as well becauseof the women that did report and got no where. I was a Specialist E4 Mos U 21 Engineering. God Bless Our Men and Women in the military. As far as gay people or homosexuals in the military it harms no one. Except the gay person who faces constant ridicule, and I have seen that as well. We had a gay gentleman where I was stationed and everyone new it because he was just a little different not because he told anyone. I hated the way they treated him.(99.999999 percent of the people ridiculing him were the men. The women did not care that he was gay.) It was actually pretty pathetic because he was a good soldier and a nice person.

And tell me calista what progressive, liberal "NEWS" outlet did that little factoid come from? NBC?

After serving my 4 yrs in the USN your opinion is just that "opinion".

I believe the US Military has made a mistake in who is allowed in the Military at this time. If some were discharged in the past does not mean it was a wrong thing to do nor a mistake that needs to be corrected.

frivolous

- So men are just now being attacked by other men, or even women for that matter? Just because something isn't spoken doesn't mean it doesn't happen. It's been just as prominent among men as it has with women. In some places it was and still is worse for men. At least you as a woman have recourse, we generally don't. Let's not forget that we have been raised not to speak of those things. You need a history lesson if you honestly think women have had it worse in that aspect throughout history and that men had it easy. Please leave your feminist misconceptions out of these discussions.

On the topic of this guy. No, it doesn't effect anyone aside from those who are homophobes. There are quite a few in the military. AlanB I'm not trying to violate any rules here but you seem like one of them. I ran across plenty of gays (male and female) before I ETS'd. Neither me nor most I served with had any issue with a person being gay as long as they pulled their own weight.

Yes, most would prefer gays to not be in but they don't give two sh*ts either way so long as they do their job equally. There is a bit of an odd feeling having to take showers in a, IET or training environment when you know someone is gay but most get over it. As far as gays 'acting gay' - anyone in the military knows how males (and females) mess with each other. So many people do much more gay crap than what the actual gay personnel do so get off you damn soapboxes. Yes, it's just in play and meant to mess with someones head but that doesn't negate the fact. Whether or not I agree with their lifestyle doesn't matter. What a grown adult does with another consenting adult is their business. As long as they do their job and don't request lesser standards (looking at you females), I don't care.

This guy knew the rules when he signed the papers. Between the recruiter, MEPS and any training - he had the option to disagree with the rules and exit. He didn't. Right or wrong, he knew the rules at the time and needs to eat the consequences of his choices at the time.

So let me get this straight... some little whiney boy wants to whine and cry because HE broke the rules and got punished and now wants all the world to give him sympathy.

If you break the law and later in life the punishment for that law changes, that does not mean YOU have the right to go back and change how you were punished. Your punishment stands for the time period during which you broke the law.. You don't get caught speeding, pay a fine the ask for a rebate 10 years later when they lower the fine for speeding. You accept that fact YOU SCREWED UP and live with it.

If he was investigated like he says and he LIED to the investigators, stating he was not Gay and yet he was, he violated the Military Rules and Regulations. Reread your enlistment papers... You SWORE to update the Lawful Orders of those appointed above you. Plus there is, in nearly every carer field a Creed Of Honor. And HONESTY is among the leading pledges of any creed.

Gays may now be allowed in the military. Does it affect moral? Doubtful, but in some people it will be a sour subject. Avoid those people and do your job as outlined in the Regulations.

And before you slam me for not serving.. yes I have served - 22 years and left with an HONORABLE Discharge. I dealt with the issue of Homosexual as a supervisor and had to wrestle with my personal feelings and the Military Regs... but I did as I was ordered and followed the rules and regs as they were stated and written. Today, my decision may have been different because the changes that have occurred. But if you sign up and you KNOW the Rules and Regs prohibit something, you do NOT go out and violate those rules just because you feel they are wrong...

When one says being gay has no effect on others in the service have no clue. I was in the USMC in the early 1960's and we had our own way of taking care of knob bobbers. There is no place in the military for these sick people. Thanks to our very weak President he is heading our military and our country on a one way trip to destruction.

Ok, enough with the politically correct bull sh_t. After serving 32 years in the military including 3 wars, I can tell you from personal experience, and not based on the factifuging crap that has been thrust down our throats for the last 40 years as to how "normal" gays are, that there is NO place in the military for those that demonstrate a lack of moral character and deviant behavior. Just because the current administration has lifted DADT, it doesn't mean that the hundreds of thousands of NORMAL military personnel don't cringe at the thought of having people with sexual identity disorders in the shower or tent next to them. Their being in the military DOES affect combat readiness, morale, esprit de corps, and unit cohesiveness ALL of which determine whether or not this nation wins or loses wars. Those that think differently are either the new age morons produced by left-wing schools or just plain don't have enough brains to realize that the traditional family, mores, social values, and natural behavior are reflected in our nations military. Just because soldiers are threatened into silence, not promoted if they don't support "diversity" and avoid polls about how they truly feel doesn't mean that they can be forced to eat sh_t and like it. The military is not a place for social experimentation, unless you want a uniformed version of Berkley! Oh, and please, if you haven't served in the military, especially in combat arms units, please avoid further demonstrations of your stupidity on a public forum.

randy

Military moral has collapsed since the imposition of sexual deviants upon our fighting men and women.

You have no idea what you are talking about. I'm sure that the 3rd, 4th or more trips back and forth to Iraq and Afghanistan over the last 10 years has nothing to do with a moral problem. But of course, you wouldn't know anything about that right?

JP.................After reading your post, I consider YOU more lacking in moral character and using deviant behavior than gays. I would prefer people like you did not "serve" me. I and others like me pay your salary, therefore you work for us. I'm glad you're not out, and I hope others that think like you will get the he!! out too. Men who think as you do are often rapists of women. Did you know that? Bet you did. Bet you did that.

SoSickoftheGop

JP.................After reading your post, I consider YOU more lacking in moral character and using deviant behavior than gays. I would prefer people like you did not "serve" me. I and others like me pay your salary, therefore you work for us. I'm glad you're not out, and I hope others that think like you will get the he!! out too. Men who think as you do are often rapists of women. Did you know that? Bet you did. Bet you did that.

I am with JP and you calling him a rapist is pathetic and VERY LIBERAL of you...

It is that mentality that is sickening and disgusting. You take a article about a gay man from 18 years ago and turn it into rape and disgusting rhetoric from the liberal left.

My guess is you have NEVER served our nation and only ask what your country can do for YOU, instead of what you can do for your country.

SoSickoftheGop

You make no sense at all.

Your comment "...more deviant behavior than gays" leads me to believe you also believe the fact that gay behavior is deviant behavior.

Men who think as you do are often rapists of women

How about some facts on that one. Unless you mean that heterosexual men are more often "rapists of women" than gay men. In that case you are probably correct. However, you could then also safely say statistically gay men are more likely to have sex with other men than heterosexual men. Try making some sense and stop spouting liberal and politically correct BS to justify or explain "gayness."

Sosick...servicemembers pay their own salaries...they pay taxes as well. How many civilian jobs make their employees pay their own wages? Time to drop the whole "I pay your salary" garbage.

Lynn, service members do not pay their own salaries. The American people, especially those who work in manufacturing pay their salaries. All those who do not produce a product are dependent on those who do. If you had no manufacturing, you would have no Teacher, Firemen, Police, or govt./state workers.

Calista is RIGHT! "It's been proven that allowing gays to serve openly does not impair military effectiveness. How stupid do you have to be to still believe something that is clearly not true???"

The truth--some of you can't handle the truth--witness your collapsing Calista. What are you so afraid of? Gays have absolutely NO effect on my heterosexuality. If they effect yours, I'd be looking into that--instead of collapsing the truth as you did Calista's post.

Or is it simply that ignorance REALLY IS "bliss?" Not for me--but go for it all you collapsers of truth!

I do want to thank you for the giggles this morning. Many of the bigots here are absolutely hilarious. You can't make this stuff up. Thank you!

Willowbrook...it used to be that taxpayers paid taxes which paid military members while military members were exempt. I know that for 24 years, and even in retirement, I paid and pay taxes on my pay and on my retirement pay. So tell me, how is it I am not paying my own salary..OK, portion of...I didn't think I had to clarify. If I wasn't supposed to be paying taxes on my pay then I am owed a LOT of money by the government.

I have also seen the mental anguish suffered by those who were sexually attacked (myself included) from another male and nothing can be done because it is your word against theirs..

So you're saying the homophobic military would NOT believe a gay man tried to rape a straight man? Sorry, not buying that at all.

The only thing gained by having a openly gay military is a new meaning to C rations and MRE's. there is no proof that things are or will remain well off with a gay military, that is only what we have been told by the people that want it, the other side will tell you different, only they are not allowed to express their opinion, freedom of speech is being regulated by the one side and denied the other, some freedom ha. our military is not the place to be conducting these experiments. and we are being lied to by the liberals and the media that make this stuff up. there are people that will not serve because of this, there are people that do not reenlist because of this, the Military to a gay person is what the boy scouts is to a pedophile. just because some of society caved in to the 2% of the population that has difficulty understanding there sex does not mean that the whole of society has jumped on the rainbow colored $hit wagon.

as for the gay fly boy he broke the rules that were in force at the time. he is subject to that, its over he should not have violated the rules but he did and he should pay the price, there can be no exceptions. if he kissed me gay or not I would have broke his facial organ. its not cool to suck a wienie then plaster your icky sucker on me ick. I feel the same about women that have to kiss everything in sight I don't know where its been keep it off of me. only difference is the woman I would not break. The gay guy blue it he is on his own. we don't owe him anything.

if he kissed me gay or not I would have broke his facial organ.

So you're both stupid and ignorant of biology, I see.

only difference is the woman I would not break

In other words, you're so afraid of realizing you're a closeted homosexual, you'll severely injure others.

will remain well off with a gay military,

Done in multiple countries around the world who are considered just as well trained and disciplined as ours. All we have over them is $$.

SoSickoftheGop,

"I would prefer people like you did not "serve" me. I and others like me pay your salary."

Whoa! Time out, Sparky. When I left the military two years ago, I was serving the needs of the nation. I was serving in the United States Army. I wasn't serving you. You must have had me confused with your gardener. Dude, I will give you back the less than a penny of your finances over 15 years which might have affected me. Perhaps you would like a bill from vets for what you owe them. Those two sentences of yours come across as the most condescending and patronizing that I have seen in quite a while. My God, is the civilian world (IE those who have never served or have any one in their family serve) really that out of touch with the military? You probably use that line on cops all the time: "you can't do that; I pay taxes; I pay your salary." I went to Iraq twice and Afghanistan once, because it is obvious that people like you, who seem to think that public service is somehow demeaning, never would or could.

jimb-2097724 You deliberately joined the armed forces and accepted a salary which came from taxes paid by the citizens of the U.S. You were not paid by the government. The government is not a business.

Second the country does not exist without its population. If you were in the military, you were in the military voluntarily under command to protect and defend the the United States of America and its population, every 320,000,000 of them. If you didn't accept that, then you should have requested a dishonorable discharge. The U.S.A. without its people does and did not exist and you defended the people in the U.S.A. My guess is with the wild assertions you are making, you never gained a rank above buck private.

Let me give you circumstances and let you decide. You are dug in in Afghanistan, the enemy lands a mortar on your position and one of the soldiers is badly wounded spewing blood all over the rest of the troops and this soldier has hiv, is it fair for the other soldiers to have been showered with this infected person's blood?

I had a date with a dental nurse and cut my finger, immediately she yelled BLOOD and made everyone step away from the table we were dining at until the blood was wipe up. It was very unsettling but understandable.

Make up your own mind should the military forces accept people with aids even in non combat positions? Let's say an hiv infected person is riding in an airplane or truck and there is an accident and this person is injured and splatters blood on other people. Is that fair or ethical?

For the three dwarfs. There is no more msnbcnews. Microsoft is no longer part of nbc. Microsoft just announced intentions to form its own news channel and comment areas. When this happens millions of people world wide are going to look at the microsoft internet news program, earnings and viewership for nbc are going to fall. As viewership falls, advertisement will fall and so will earnings. Nbcnews is going to want to hold onto every viewer it can get.

When this site was msnbcnews and decided to buy Davidson's opinion channel, it was the biggest robbery in history. Davidson walked away with $75,000,000 and if you check the ratings. MSNBC viewership barely nudged. With all the expenses and ill advised spending, it was a great big waste of money for nbc. You don't see nbc healding the microsoft -nbc break up.

Your comments are similar to me turning to the comics page in the newspaper. Just for laughs at the foibles of the far left liberals and their rantings and ravings.

Except in WWII when EVERYBODY went. EVERYBODY. Gays. Women. Blacks. One big (real) US effort. UNTIL it was over, Then women were told to quit their jobs and go back home and cook and clean for their husbands. Don't bother going to college, all you are going to do is get married and have kids. There are no jobs for women anyway. They are for men. Blacks: Go back to YOUR part of town. Stay out of the white stores. Don't use the white water fountain. Don't buy a house in the white part of town. Don't date a white person. Gays: Stay in the closet. No one cares about your rights or concerns. Faggots. Yup. All true. We WERE all in it togehter, the stuff they preach about being one country, one set of laws, one effort UNTIL we don't really need you anymore and then it's, well we really are NOT all equal. So, you want to sell me your phony set of standards, sorry. Next time someone wants to rally for the good of all, I want to see what the good of all really is.

Well, of course you feel that way - you are a bigot. Duh.

Who are you talking to? If you are talking to me, AND thinking I am offended, I could care less. I got an encyclopedia set of people who have something to say about me. Put your name in Volume XXXIV, page 350, near the bottom. The least of my worries is being liked. Who want first class losers and morons to like them? It;s like saying I have no self esteem or can't find any real friends, or, oh my God, I am not accepted. Who cares? Not me. So, if you ARE talking to me, go s^&^&^& your friend's P^&^&^& up there. The only people a^&^^&^ want to be around is other a%^%^%%^.

Bill- 402: the US went to WWII because the Axis Powers attacked us east and west. Once in it, we went all the way and as it turns out played a pivotal role in ending the genocide of both the Germans and Japanese. But we also helped rebuild Europe (Marshall Plan) and by not shooting the Japanese Emperor saved some face for the Japanese. Shortly after that we went to war in Korea to protect them from would be conquerors. Many white folks who never ever met black folks went to war in the 1860's to free the slaves. IT is not their fault it took many more decades for the full range of rights to be given to blacks. Whites worked through the decades to establish rights to all people in the US. Did it take too long - yes, but there is no reason to ascribe nothing but hate to white people. Upon establishing the UN, the US paid the bills, up to 75% of all costs of the UN for years. By the time we sponsored them for 50 years we were down to 50% of the bill paying, and now it's more like 25%. Still an outsized proportion. Got rid of a dictator drug runner in Panama, kicked the Cubans out of Grenada, went to war in Boznia/Kosovo to protect Muslims, went after Al Qaida world wide. During the Cold War (1960"s) we fed the Russians because their commie farm techniques don't work and they were literally staving - we shipped huge amounts of grain to Russia. We've been feeding half of Africa for 50 years, made huge contributions to central and South American and Caribbean countries. Built the Panama canal 100 years ago, gave it to Panama. Secured Taiwan from a sure fire invasion had we not been there. Made loans to these countries and then when they said they couldn't pay it back, simply forgave it as a further contribution to them. No country on earth has taken in so many seeking a new life from the persecutions, depravities and disasters of their home countries - no one. And on , and on. So I reject your notion that the US is an evil place, ruled by evil people. And invite you to pick another country and go live there without any support or income from the US. People here do expect folks to work and make a contribution in order to sit at the table of benefits with their heads up. But you can still sit at the table with your head down if you want - and we're going broke in the effort. Are there problems in the US - oh yes. Does America suck - hell no ! Don't be ashamed of America - just work to fix what needs fixin. The door swings both ways and you can leave anytime - take your cash with you - a privilege other countries do not allow ! Betcha somebody overseas would like to come take your place !

well said

To Bill, If you have never been overseas, please go. Upon your return you will kiss the ground and thank God you were born here.

To IReadYou. Perfect, I could not have said it better.

You know Bill you are absolutly right. Life was like that after WWII, and what I wouldn't give to go back to that time. It wasn't perfect but it was a lot better them I'm see it now.

DOes anybody remember a song c think it was callled Criminal Kiss? WHo did it?

Iwas in the Navy in the mid 80's there were gays and nobody cared exept for a few neanderthals and they were the ones nobody could stand

Bill.................You are an angel. A genius. A real man.

And to IReadYou...................Why don't YOU go to another country. We don't need your kind here. Why is it Republicraps, when they can't think of anything witty to say, always tell others to leave the country. Especially when they're the ones we don't need.

Iwas in the Navy in the mid 80's there were gays and nobody cared exept for a few neanderthals and they were the ones nobody could stand

That's pretty much the consensus I've seen, bubba. I've served, my cousins have served, my father and uncle have served, my grandfathers served...none of them have problems with homosexuals.

Ah! Some self-confident heterosexuals! How refreshing! Your comments sound and just "feel" so superior to all those homosexual bashers! Read the comments--you can feel the difference--Thank you!

Is ignorance truly bliss?--because the negative homophobic posts certainly DO NOT sound very "blissful" or happy--do they?

allswell Did you serve beef stew or stewed chicken?

Ofcoarse--Ahh the on-line Shelden Cooper. Or, maybe the coward with a computer. What a nasty little man you chose to be.

So I reject your notion that the US is an evil place, ruled by evil people.

Ireadyou, I reject that notion as well. I see the US as a place run by people that usually mean well, but don't always make the best decisions, resulting at times in both great good and great harm

It wasn't a sex act. It was a drunken kiss. I saw enough drunken kisses between people of the same sex during my college days to know that it probably shouldn't be used as a method to determine ones sexuality.

Well, you are also not allowed too get drunk... you know, firearms...

@Calista, was kissing member of the same sex against your college's rules?

Vyor, the military is not like a bunch of cops. They do not carry firearms when they are off duty, unless they are in a military zone. They are allowed to drink, etc. off duty.

Drunk behavior doesn't indicate one's sexuality; same sex kisses happen at college parties all the time? Young gals? Sure. They do it for attention because they know guys like that kinda stuff. I did my share of partying - and probably a dozen other people's share, also - and NEVER once saw a straight male kiss another straight male. I'm sure that 'beer goggles' have made me hit on / go home with women that I would never approach whist sober, but never once did it ever cross my mind to flirt with a man - drunk, buzzed or sober.

i have seen it.

Then at least one of them WASN'T straight.

i guess your ignorance tuns deep in your family

I've seen it too--both straight. Much depends upon culture. It happens in Ireland and no men are offended. But you must be confident in your heterosexuality. Unfortunately, many American males are not. Don't know why...

You said it best. You know the rules when you joined. Break them and pay the price...

Life is not fair, Rules and Regulations were established for everyone's good. There used to be Honor in the Country, whether some of the rules were unfair or laws which were by older people, who did not tolerate that lifestyle, to back when women couldn't vote. Things are changing eveybody is suppose to be able to pursue whatever makes them happy.

I can live with the way equal rights, because I agree with them; however get convicted of a crime which never occured, when you spent hundreds of thousands of dollars to save peoples lives, then because of the unfairness in the system, your legal and judicial rights have been totally denied. Try to prove your lawyers played to their own agenda and even screwed up, but NOBODY can or will help you...All the way to the US Supreme Court, only to be denied FAIR and EQaul treatment under the law, and being an Honorably Discharged Vietnam Vet...and knowing all my life I stood for Honor!!!

Life is not fair and all your tears will not make it that way, but we have to stand up for everyones rights, so that these cracks in the 'processes' don't continue to treat men and women of the GREASTEST country in the world like we are all criminals first and insure our 'RIGHTS' in all aspects of our lives!

thats right there used to be honor here but not any more too much discrimination and too many politicians caring more about making money and not enough caring about the people.

@ xraymath, No, that's not fine. I knew a few men in the military who was discharged for having sex or committing sexual acts with women who were not their wives. That is also contrary to military law.

If anyone openly talks about sexual conduct with anyone of any sex, in the military, it is sexual harassment and grounds for discharge (I almost got shafted on this one once). If you kiss a person who has consumed alchohol It can be considered sexual assault. btw if a man has sex with a woman who has been drinking even a little it is rape in the military. The overly strict and harsh rules are not just for gays, It's everyone. That's the kind of life you choose when you join up.

you hit the nail on the head.

Why don't you go all the way with that attitude: all soldiers should consider that to be honor enough and the pentagon should stop paying them altogether. What an insensitive comment.

he didn't say that... at all... you're an idiot

I could not have said that any better. Women has dealt with being oppressed since the beginning of time. Women have just within the last 100 years the right to vote even black men had that right to vote before women did. For god's sake be patient if you want to change things it is not going to happen over night. That goes for Women, blacks, gays, or whatever else is next in line like poligomy, who knows. lmao

calista you pic suits you very well.

The majority of the Gays are more than likely in service jobs that do not require them to be in combat and the likely hood that they would ever fire in support of themselves or someone else is minimal at best. It may occur but not often. The Gay Agenda, " The next step in moving to full equality for gays in the military is recognition of the spouses of homosexual service members. The Defense of Marriage Act prevents the military from recognizing same-sex spouses." is starting to evolve. Next will be in vitro fertilization and adoption. The list will be as long and costly to taxpayers as one can imagine. Mental tests for all recruits to test them if they have prejudices implanted from their family and friends as they grew up in Main Street, America.

The military didn't ask. They responded with an investigation when they received a report of conduct code violations.

Except for the part where it said they investigated him before and were unable to find proof. What prompted that investigation? It also said that one soldier was "pressured" into disclosing information about the kiss. From that information, it seems like they were purposely trying to prove that he was gay - which is a far cry from "not asking". The article isn't very clear and we would need to know the details to say that that was the case, but the same goes for your assumption.

Also, look! I can bold my words too! Look how important my comment seems now.

DADT was nothing but a smokescreen. It didn't keep them from investigating or making false accusations against people they didn't like. If there's one thing the military investigators enjoyed, it was their petty little f_g hunts.

They were always investigating. The first 3 years after they implemented DADT where what I refer to as the "Witch-Hunts". An example is base communications which monitor all telephone calls. The purpose was to identify threats and security leaks. Well, they expanded that program to include finding gay service people. This was not systemic everywhere in the military it all depended upon the base commanders.

I really love when they say " We can not correctly report the first 3 years of discharges under DADT, we did not have the capability of tracking those types of discharges". The military administration systems were computerized when DADT started.

I went to the VA hospital a month ago. I was in those first three years of DADT. I had a Indian Doctor pull up my Honorable Administration separation for being a Homosexual.

My point being is they asked and looked and waited. They kicked out straight service men for exactly what this article is describing along with the gay people. The actual number the military is reporting is way off. They do not want to fess up to what they truly did.

Well one way it effects it is....I hope your son, if you have one, never needs an emergency blood transfusion on the feild, and if he does, hope he is immune to aids.

Yes, but that's not the point here. Do you think it is smart of a person to violate standing rules because they don't think it is exactly fair then expect everyone to side with them? What you are saying, therefore, is that the needs and wishes of this one individual is far more important that the needs of the whole unit.

Which is precisely the issue with the military. They wear uniforms so they all look the same. No one works alone. In all forces they are in a unit, a department, a division, a squad. It is the needs of the whole that matters, not the preferences and personalities of the individual.

Change the rules but don't violate existing rules then expect everyone to give you the benefits given to those who didn't violate the rules. Be an activist for others rights. But don't whine about your own all day.

At the end of the day, no, it does not matter a person's sexual orientation. It does matter whether they adhere to the Uniform Code of Military Justice. Whether you like it or not, the article was in place when the incident occurred.

Wendy, don't be ridiculous. First of all, being gay doesn't come with an automatic HIV+ status. Anyone could be HIV+, gay, straight, male, or female. Second of all, everyone in the military is tested for HIV and, unless it's recently changed, HIV+ people cannot serve on the front line.

Let me say this one more time slowly, so you can understand: Gay does not equal AIDS.

"Let me say this one more time slowly, so you can understand: Gay does not equal AIDS."

Ya. And smoking does not equal lung cancer, and drunk driving does not equal car crash.

I was a teen in the 80's. Now and then I'll get into a discussion with someone who says "Gay doesn't = AIDS". Then they will go on to explain that they are so passionate about the subject because they 'went to so many funerals of friends in the late 80's / early 90's that I've lost count; young men taken in their primes by AIDS ' . I respond that I'm the same age. I haven't lost count of how many friends I lost to AIDS. The number remains ZERO. Maybe it's because none of my friends let men shoot infected loads of semen into their rear ends. Just sayin'.

or maybe it's because AIDS isn't super prevalent in society, less than 6% worldwide have it, 7.3% in the U.S.

Wendy and Fred, being gay doesn't mean you have aids. There have been plenty of straight people die of aids. Why do you think that there has been aids research for as long as it has been in existance? Do you think that if aids only affected gay people, there would be so much research? That is like saying that if you are straight then you have a vd called ---... Don't generalize.

@fred the puppy - you have to be joking. You have got to be one of the bigger idiots on these boards (Yes, I think their are quite a few). Maybe it's more that your friends didn't shoot up with a dirty needle, or weren't BORN with it (that one probably slipped your little mind too). Get a life.

Wendy,

You are still one of the remnants of ignorant people who bought into the Religious Right who believe AIDS was a curse on the Homosexuals. The fact is that When AIDS came out there was rampant intravenous drug use with Cocaine and Heroine. Homosexuals were not immune to drug addiction any more than Heterosexuals.

I am a medical professional and there are more terrible things out there than AIDS that are easier to catch and die from.

Personally I am sick and tired of the Homophobia brought here in the 21st Century by the Hateful writings of the Old Testament.

For all other discussion about Homosexuals in the Military, until the laws of Moses were brought to us by an evil Empire of the Hebrew Nation, homosexuality was an accepted form of human relations and as was exhibited in in many cultures dating back over 4000 years before Moses, homosexuals served in all armies. Alexander The Great was from such a culture and he is attributed for being a great humanitarian, statesman, and warrior general and much more.

Just a thought for your edification, Moses wrote his five books of law in order to control his tribes of traveling Jews. He had been a resident in the home of the Pharaoh of Egypt, even though he was a Jew. He took his tribes out of Egypt where they had served as slaves for Egypt along with many other nations for thousands of years. His status as a son of Pharaoh allowed him privileges, slaves did not have.

As the traveling Circus passed many city states and societies, his tribes tried to stop and assimilate into the societies. Moses declared the socially accepted practices of the City States, to be sins. When Moses declared something a sin, and the wages of sin is death, then to break the laws of Moses is DEATH.

God did not have a single thing to do with the laws of Moses other than Moses' royal Upbringing being used to hold the power of Life and death over other humans. After all, isn't that what the power of God is? Who lives and who dies?

He cursed the world society with his hateful laws that's only purpose was to control great numbers of people. The Romans saw the benefit of the laws as they needed a way to maintain control their far reaching fading Empire after the military capacity went away.

The Muslims also "borrowed" Moses laws for the same purpose, but they took the laws a bit farther to be tailored to their specific needs of conquest. The Muslims moved South through Africa, Asia, Persia and Greece as far away as India. The Romans moved their influence North towards Europe. Both took the Laws of Moses with them, which is Ironic since the Jews at that time were now second class citizens.

I am not making up a single part of of this. It is pure history but sometimes it is easier to believe in Santa Clause than to suffer from the realities of Winter.

The Roman Catholics also came to take the teaching of Jesus and combined it with the Hebrew text. So now there was a combination of Death versus life defeating death. A play was put on by Eugene O'Neill called Lazarus Laughed where Lazarus is portrayed as confronting Caligula. He tells Caligula "The resurrection of Jesus made these Early Christians utterly Fearless of Death." Further, "A Roman magistrate greets a prisoner just arrived and says, "I sentence you to death as a follower of Jesus of Nazarene". The Prisoner replies, "Sir, Death is Dead." Lazarus, like the Apostles, carried the message of Jesus to far away lands and were nearly all killed in horrible manners for their efforts just like Jesus was killed for his efforts.

Prior to Jesus, there was only Death for sins and we are all sinners. The Hebrew police state used the fear of death to control the masses and to collect money for taxes and for the payment of sins. To not pay was to require other payment in the form of slavery or death. Jesus brought us freedom of fear of death.

Ignorant, superstitious people believe in Religious hatred and righteous plagues.

Lazarus

Wendy..all service members have annual HIV draws and anyone found HIV positive are placed on a no deploy list and are monitored. The chance of a servicemember getting a transfusion with HIV positive blood is about as risky as any other blood transfusion anywhere else.

Wendy--all bood is tested--not only for aids--but other diseases as well. Please get a grip!

And Larry--THANK YOU! It's refreshing to hear facts from a medical professional instead of b.s. from homophobes.

I guess all you ppl that say if you have HIV you can't serve have not heard of HIV sometimes not showing up on a test for 6 months or more?And if you are the average citizen who does not shoot up drugs and you are straight, I guarantee your chances of getting HIV is significantly lower then those of young gay men who are too young and rash or immature to practice safe sex. You call it homophobia, I call it common sense. And you brought religion into it, not me. People that are religious and NON religious can catch the virus equally.

The sexual orientation issue came up because the radical religionistas needed to instill fear and hate among their groups. Nothing, absolutely nothing gets more attention than sex - ask any marketing department. Anything to do with sex has proven to be a winner for the republicans, and now the Tparty. At every election, the repub/tparty brings sex into their campaigns. Every single election. The Democratics have accepted sex as part of humanity way back and pay no mind. The Europeans are laughing at Americans, pretending sex should be under covers, in the dark only. We have a lot of growing up to do.

This was a homosexual man that planted a kiss on a straight man that probably didn't appreciate it one bit. Drunk, buzzed, or whatever it dosen't make any differance it shouldn't of happened. If this would have been me he would have gotten his discharge with 2 black eyes and a foot up his a$$.

If this would have been me he would have gotten his discharge with 2 black eyes and a foot up his a$$.

Yes, please provide more evidence of the theory that the most vehemently homophobic are more likely to be hiding latent homosexual tendencies.

I would've loved to sit on your court martial board for that one.

Latent? He sounds flaming to me.

45 is the new 41.

Could have been a distortion in the time/space continuum.

His friends also referred to it as a joke kiss - you left out that part. And he was discharged for a "homosexual act", not for "sexual assault" or anything along those lines.

Dart,

You are missing the point. Joke or not...it's all in the perception of the act in the military. He claims gay now...therefore his intentions were most likely toward the guy he kissed. Much like a heterosexual would be labeled if he/she were to have done the same thing to another male/female.

Being a heterosexual, if I were to kiss a woman and I "said" it was a joke, yet she didnt like it...the joke part is a moot point at this stage. Bottomline is she didnt want it. Again, it totally intensifies the situation if I was A.) Drunk B.) So drunk I didnt remember and C.) Acted on an unwilling participant.

Nothing here said the participant was unwilling. If that were the case, then it would have been sexual harassment, and he should have been discharged for that, not "homosexual acts". It said that his friends were the ones who referred to it as a joke. Of course, it is all vague, but that led me to the understanding that it was a joke for them as well.

Also, it's possible for someone who is gay to make sexual jokes with a friend of the same sex and not have sexual intentions toward them. I don't know what his intentions were. None of us do, and the article was very vague. But it is not fair to compare this act to or call this act sexual harassment based on the knowledge we have.

That's still a form of pedophilia, not sexuality. Just because the newbies are "of age" doesn't mean it's not the same power trip mentality. I'd have to read up on his file/meet him, but what you're describing is not by any stretch a typical homosexual male.

Still, a form of pedophilia, not sexuality eh Patrick93. Well I was in the military in the 60's-70's we had a E-5 that used to go around waking people up at reveille by rubbing their backs all the down to including their gluteus maximus (for those who do not know what that is, its ass) now what would you call that?
Well, what ever you call it, we took care of it ourselves we used the the THREE MINUTE RULE (whither or not a written rule) to our advantage and we put a stop to it military style. If that offends you too bad so sad but I would do it again in a heart beat so call me what you want, it doesn't bother me to deal with mental midgets.

Was it even pedophilia? The normal age for enlistment is 18 unless you have your parents' permission to enlist at 17. I don't think that having sex with an 18 year old is pedophilia. Isn't that the age of legal consent in most states?

So if niterider took care of the problem, why is he whining that the gova'ment should protect him from the gays?

University of Chicago Student

Where in my statement do read that I want the government to protect me? Your in college and you can't even read? No wonder we have so many mental midgets in the world today. Its no wonder the United States is going down hill fast, look what we have to work with!!!!!!!! Someone who reads between the lines where nothing is written. Oh great!

Although this view might be helpful in keeping soldiers obedient, the military is not an entirely separate unit from the USA. They are still bound by the supreme law the of the land and controlled by a citizen government. As such, the UCMJ can suck the constitution's balls if there are any contradictions. And if you feel the constitution isn't explicit enough in this case, dear sir, then it can be made explicit enough, capeesh?

While I do sympathize with Mr. Henley, being gay and being in the military in 1994 didn't go together. The commenter above, macs-2037633 (post #25), is correct. When I joined the military, I was told that if I lied on any portion of my enlistment papers, and the lie was discovered, that I could be dishonorably discharged at any time. I was also told that even if I didn't repeat the words for my oath of enlistment, it didn't matter. If I was present for that little ceremony and raised my hand, I agreed to all terms.

I don't know what it would take to change the Uniform Code of Military Justice and at this point in time, it probably would not be made retroactive to right all of those wrongs. All military is sworn to uphold our Constitution, AND obey the law of the land, but they are also held to the UCMJ in their conduct. Mr. Henley was fortunate to be able to retain a civilian lawyer and be discharged honorably; many others were not.