Love that song...lol

But I shot a man in Reno.......just to watch him die........when I hear that lonesome whistle............I hang my head and cry.

When I was just a baby, my mama told me, Son,
Always be a good boy, don't ever play with guns.
But I shot a man in Reno just to watch him die
When I hear that whistle blowing, I hang my head and cry..

Poisoners have rights too ya know... NOT!

Put them all on lock down an feed them sauerkraut and gummi bears for a mth.

Folsom Prison has a 100% rehabilitation rate.

Rehabilitate = to restore to former condition.

100% were scum before arriving and 100% leave as scum.

The innocent ones too? You must be a main-speaker at the idiot convention.

If they had been just a bit more careful with those shots, they could have eased the over population by 6 more inmates. Wasted chances......

We are supposed to feel unhappy because these individuals, including those who are causing problems in other prisons, are misrable about their situations? Hunger strikes? Well, let me see, you commit crimes against the innocent, make society pay for your room and board, t.v., exercise rooms and are angry about being locked up in crowded conditions and in isolation because you are too dangerous to be among those who live and follow society's rules.I guess living with the consequences of your actions isn't all you expected is it now is it? Nor being stuck up close with others just like you.

  Maybe one should THINK about their actions before doing them.Act like a vicious animal, get caged like one. Learn to act decent and when you get out don't do anything to end up back. I'm guessing most if not all of these fellas had better accommodations and chances to reform themselves and now miss the "good 'ol days" of those former luxury jails.

"A Democrat is a Republican who just got thrown in jail." Choose your comments wisely Windancersong, when you, or someone you love, gets hung up in this Poor man, Rich man system of US law, will you still cry " peine forte et dure?" In the USA, especially in California (the poster child) there is Prison Industrial Complex designed to perpetuate itself first and foremost with rehibilitation being only an afterthought. At least 85% of the men and women in the system are poor black or hispanic. You ever heard of a "wolf is sheep's clothing?" There are many, too many wolves in Law enforcement, politics, and religion with a fake shroud justice and goodness around them. For now, they are above the law.

Windancersong-1494878

Or maybe we should stop the locking every one up for any little thing.

Fact is! we send too many people to prison.

and we do it to show we are hard on crime.

how we just execute violent offenders and leave it at that.

we do not have the money to lock up 50% of the nation.

Shoot we do not have the money to lock up a 5th of the nation.

we need to pick our battles and in this day and age of GPS and what not, why are will still useing prisons to correct people behavior?

I wish all the inmate would stop eating till things are changed.

the government should not have as many laws as a mother has rules.

that is silly and that is where we are at now.

Because if they allow them to kill each other off.... Then they, "The State Corrections" will lose out on monies given by the Feds....

As the Prison System is one of the Richest and most Profitable one in California, as well as all of U.S....

After ten years with 2 wars, the FEDS don't kick like they used to. Some counties now are not even violating, which used to be CDC's bread and butter. Only new beefs now.

Shoot to kill? Really? Those are human beings. Far too often, they're stuck in a living hell for the most petty offenses; things like parole violation, for example. The prison industrial complex is designed to make people fail. Until you've walked a mile in their shoes, don't you dare sit in judgement on them.

Until you've walked a mile in their shoes, don't you dare sit in judgement on them.

I've walked 18 miles in their shoes. Although I have not been to Folsom, I have been a guest of 'Quentin, Soledad and Pelican Bay. Plus other Maximum Security Prisons in Florida and Tennessee. I've done just over 18 years. So I think I qualify to answer your post.

Yes, they are human beings and they deserve to be treated as such.

However.....

Let's not pretend any of the people involved in this are model inmates. Their not. Their the Predators in the System. I guarantee you this was a flat out Gang thing and every single person involved knew the riot was going to happen and knew exactly what the outcome could end up being. Every one, bar none.

I'm going to assume you might have a loved one who is incarcerated, so you are seeing him/her in this story. Even though it's not, you can see the possibilities. So you take this personal. I get it, okay. To this day, I have what I consider Brothers still locked up and I stay in touch with them. So I get where your coming from.

But let's not put blinders on here. In California, theres not one solitary person doing time that does not know the rules when it comes to "Shots Fired". There are no warning shots. Period. It's posted on hundreds of signs throughout the prisons. "No Warning Shots Fired".

There are also Red Lights/Sirens throughout the prisons and when these go off, the rule is simple and written in stone. You have three seconds to be laid flat with your arms outstretched. If you are still standing after three seconds, you are considered a threat and you will be shot.

During a fight situation, it's another rule written in stone. You might be shot for simply fighting, but you will definately be shot if you are attacking somebody with a weapon. Again, theres not one single person doing time in California that doesn't know these rules. They are the only rules that matter, so trust me, they know.

These dudes all knew what they were getting into. They knew what could happen. These aren't Boy Scouts we're talking about here. These are gang members ho knew they could end up dead by fighting in the yard and they still chose to do it.

O'h, and one more thing.....

things like parole violation

The Parole Violation isn't the question. What were they on Parole for?

The prison industrial complex is designed to make people fail.

Now that is 100% true. The system is without question now designed to almost ensure a inmates failure anduntil that is fixed somehow, you can absolutely guarantee a revolving door.....

Bob 2089091 do you have even one fact to back up the diatribe you wrote ?

Liz...do a little research....the facts are there....

It's true that most prisoners are in jail for drug offenses who didn't hurt anyone but themselves. It's also true that it's a for profit business for the government on tax payers backs. It's also true that they make your license plates and take jobs away. I'm sure they make a lot of other stuff but I don't know off hand. It's also true that we have the most people in prison per capita than any other country.

Bob knows what he's talking about.

Col Trautman: "Time to make prison a place no one wants to go."

You mean you WANT to go to prison? Have you ever been to one? I guarantee you'll change your mind. No one WANTS to go to prison (unless they're insane).

no its time to do house arrest. and demand that people change their lives and actions. within the very place they did their crime.

we can not lock up every one. that is silly.

Yeah, I'm sure if we just demand it they will change their lives.....

Paula Baker
What sanctimonious drivel.

I'm willing to say right now, I've NEVER done any "action" that would have "ended me (them) up in the system".

Also, my son has NEVER done anything that would have done so either.

Maybe YOU and YOUR children have received more than a minor speeding ticket that would have brought FELONY charges. But honestly, that's YOUR problem.

I know the system. If you don't commit a FELONY you don't end up in a MAXIMUM SECURITY PRISON. It really IS a simple concept.

Personally, I would have liked to see the "riot" continue. It was a contained situation, not endangering any innocent civilians outside of the walls. It had the potential of decreasing the prison population and purported overcrowding. I'm sure the inmates are not truly concerned with adhering to the law in any case.

Paula, I think you should call back when you're coherent.

Paula,
Why are you trying to bring politics into this? If you want to play that game then fine, here goes. You sound like a typical liberal that thinks these thugs in prison should be pampered and live a life of luxory behind bars. They are in prison! They are there for a reason, because they choose not to follow the laws of this country. Now hop off your soap box and bury your head back in the sand. And nice try at the race baiting. Idiot.

It's New Folsom Paula, they're not in there for stealing a candy bar. Most of the populace in CA state prisons are gang bangers. I know, I used to work within both the corrections and mental health depts.

Paula, first just the fact that you formed an opinion "before even reading the posts" indicates you are closed minded. I think most of the posters are intelligent people. I may not agree with all of the opinions, but at least I am willing to see what they have to say. Sometimes I even learn a new fact that can change my particular view on a subject. And what the h... does a man running for President have to do with the prision riot of a state 3000 miles away from his home state...go back to bed and start your morning over with coffee and take a smart pill...that's your only hope

Paula makes some valid points. I wonder why so many of you jump on her? Why get so bent of shape when someone has a different opionion from your own?

Many of you are the same posters who decry Muslims' protesting that video--and proclaim your belief in "free speech"--but when Paula exercises her free speech rights--you jump all over her--insulting her personally with comments like " go back to bed and start your morning over with coffee and take a smart pill, "And nice try at the race baiting. Idiot. or I think you should call back when you're coherent."

Why are many of you so threatened by Paula that you forgo rational discourse in favor of personal abuse?

Max Sil ham....and why are you so set on defending someone who insulted most of us posters...she basically accused us of being crimianls who just didn't get caught. She accused us of being uninformed, uneducated, and having opinions based on tv shows....excuse the heck out of me, but damn if I won't defend myself against that kind of dribble coming from someone who obviously doesn't respect someone else opinion..even before she read them...duh. Now if you call her type of discourse rational, then you yourself have some mental and ego issues. Or are you so locked into your own narrow world that you failed to recognize the fact that she insulted you too....

Hey Paula.....Why don't you hop on a plane and go check out some prisons in other countries. Try some where they cut off your hand for stealing or make you crap in a cup. Better yet, take Maxwell Siilver Hammmer with you and you morons can hold hands and sing Disney songs together. We will be all awaiting your complete report upon your return. Have a wonderful trip!!!!!

Okay, here we go again, as I just wrote this on another posting about the same story.....

I have done close to 19 years in Maximum Security prisons, in three seperate states. (Florida, California and Tennessee.) I was 14 years old when I was charged as an adult and sent to prison. I was sitting in Raiford on my 16th birthday and before it was said and done, I was 32 when finally released for good. (I am now 42)

I earned and deserved every single day I did in prison. In fact, I probably should have done more than I did. So I make no excuses for it and I do not blame anybody else. It wasn't society's fault, it wasn't my friends fault and it wasn't my parents fault. It was my fault and I deserved what I got.

So with that said.....

I'm seeing and reading a whole lot of bull@!$%# about both this story and the people involved. I'm seeing a bunch of people who have no clue about this environment or most of the people inside of it. And that includes the Co's.

I'm going to address the simple one's first.

There are innocent people in prison. Ther are guilty people in prison. There are @!$%# Co's who are there because they can't do anything else. There are real convict guards who are there to do their job and they do it the right way.

The fact of the matter is this. The odds are good that every inmate involved with this was there on purpose. You have got to understand where you are talking about and since I have a few years under my belt in California, I think I qualify. And for the record, no, I was not in New Folsom. (I did my California time in the Q', Soledad and Pelican Bay.)

Everything in California is based on gang activity. Period. At least in the Level 4 and 5 institutions. Nothing goes on that is not gang related or sactioned. Hell, in Pelican Bay, I never once set foot on the yard with another race. Not once. Yard time was 100% segregated. It had to be due to the ongoing wars between gangs and races.

In reality, yard time was based on GANG AFFILIATION, not even race. You simply couldn't put Northerners or BGF'ers on the yard with Southerners or AB'ers. And you couldn't put what we call "civilians" on the yard with any of the above. (Civilians are non-gang affiilated inmates.) What i'm saying are facts, not an opinion.

So the fact is, the odds are very good that this was a gang thing. Now granted, it's been close to 15 years since I was in the California system. But some things never change and, well, gang activity in California prisons is one of them. They run the prisons and nothing goes on without their permission. Period. The co's and the administration do not run a damned thing, no matter how much they try to convince you otherwise. All they do is herd the cattle to where they want to go and thats it. And thats the way it should be.

Now, you also have to know how California Level 4-5 works. There are sirens and there are red flashing lights throughout the prisons. The very FIRST thing they teach you when you enter DOC in Reception is about the sirens and lights. And the rule is so simple that that the biggest idiot in the world can understand it.

If the siren/lights go off, you immediately lay face down with your arms stretched out flat on the ground. You have 3 seconds to do it. If you do not, you are considered a threat and you will be shot. There are no warning shots and there are no "wounding" shots. They shoot to kill and the towers carry Mini-14 Assault Rifles. The only people who might get a pass on this rule are inmates who are either deaf or blind and they have to wear bright orange vests that identify them as such, so the guards know they are handicapped. (You know, vests like you see road workers wearing.)

Everybody knows this rule. Everybody. It's drilled into you from Day 1 and you dont pretend it doesn't matter or doesn't exist. To do so could cost you your life.

So if any of the inmates involved in this were civilians, they would have been laid flat from the get-go and would have been okay. The odds of a civilian participating in the fight is so unlikely, it's almost non-existent. Only a gang member will will remain standing and fighting. Period. And they will, even with the threat of gun play. They have to. To do anything else will cost them big with their own gang. As long as their enemy is standing and fighting, you must also be standing and fighting back. Period.

To many of you are commenting when you have no idea what you are talking about. You watch 3 episodes of "Lock Up Raw" and you are suddenly a penal expert. Well, I have news for you. TV never get's it right...or real. You are seeing an edited version that is...well, simply bull@!$%#.....

Now i'm going to add to this.....

Most of you really are clueless on this subject. Really, you are. You can talk all day, but in the end, if you haven't been there as either an inmate or a Staff member, you dont know @!$%#. Nothing. You are speaking soley by what you think or by what your opinion is or by what you've seen on tv.

All I can say is, I hope that every single person here who has made all the "kill them all" comments one day finds themselves in the system. I hope the convicts accomodate you with your wish and make you #1 on that list..... I'll bet you sing a different tune then......

Whatever.

Sounds to me like you must have dropped the soap.

Either way, you just said that you should also be one of the ones mass murdered by the Government for the betterment of society.

In the end, you are just a Troll and i'm done with you.....

its Rollin round the bend.... hope its full of women cause I'm tired of banging men,...I'm stuck in Folsom prison

Frosty the snowman aka Jack Frost

The Fed govt could pay the hotel bills.

Excuse me. When did the Government get any money of it's own? Don't forget, whatever they spend and waste is either extorted from those of us who work, or borrowed from a potential adversary to GIVE to other adversaries.

Now, if you said put them in roach motels while working on chain gangs, I would have more easily agreed.

Simmer down. The only dental they get is a tooth pulled after they've been in pain for a few months. It's not like there are prison dentists doing crowns and bridges and root canals. They don't even get their teeth cleaned.

While it was obvious to me, you and I both know there are some that can't quite grasp the concept of sarcasm and would jump on the idea as a win-win.

That being said, I apologize for not indicating my understanding of the initial sarcasm.

By the way, have you named one of the rats Willard yet?

Nope, then too many people out of jobs.

And that menu is on a GOOD day!!

I would submit ZERO...

The "casual" user and minor dealers had already been released.

That being said, the "new" Folsom "houses" MAXIMUM SECURITY prisoners.... they're not in there for selling a nickle bag.

How about some taxpayer funded (government) housing along with "on the job training" and we let them move into your nieghborhood.........good luck amigo, you're going to need it!!!!

Craig's right. We're creating more criminals than not. Why do you want to create the very enemies you despise? Not too bright--and many of you sound like you'd like to riot yourselves.

ARIGHT!!! another "open house" at Maxwell's place.......I can already feel the savings from my taxes going down.....

If my Mother was arrested on drug charges...then she broke the law and she would deserve to be in prison. Laws are in place, like it or not. I think its hilarious that you think that the people are "Decent Americans". If they are so decent, go live with them!!

average guy....all you Liberals are hypocties. You know you are wrong, but are too cowardly to face the truth of the facts...therefore you simply wear denial in the form of lies....

@Avarage Guy.....Did grandma get a sex change? and did my tax dollars pay for that?.....because last time I checked Folsum didn't have any female inmates......

Well then open YOUR home to a few when they get out.

Let me know how that works out for you.

Savannah--anytime anyone makes a rational civilized valid point--these fools make some moronic comment like "Well then open YOUR home to a few when they get out. Let me know how that works out for you"

They sound not much different from the criminals they despise.

I got news for you, XD--when they get out of our present prison system--let me know how that works out for YOU!

And Savannah thank you for the book recommendation. Too bad so many won't take the time to educate themselves--but I appreciate the opportunity.

Maxwell's Silver Hammer

I have no problem with them when they get out of prison. They'll go back to the places they came from doing what they did before.

Personally, I'm far from those areas. However, if they try to do to me or mine what they did "back home" they will find a very different situation awaiting them

Here's a little hint... google for my on-line name. I'm prepared for them.

My cellmate in Soledad was doing 25 to Life for shoplifting a $3.65 bottle of Wild Irish Rose wine. No violence whats-so-ever. He stuffed the bottle down his pants and walked out the door. The Police arrested him 2 blocks away without incident.

He was Struck Out under California's 3 Strike Law. He had 4 priors, all for theft. One of the charges was for Armed Burglary, but he wasn't armed when he broke into the car. He stole a knife out of the car and under the law, the minute he took the knife he was considered armed. Thus the Armed Burglary charge.

He's doing LIFE. Forever. For shoplifting. He has never, not even once, committed a violent crime or hurt anybody physically. He was, point blank, an alcoholic drunk who was a petty thief. For that he has to spend the rest of his life in prison.

Back then, Soledad was a Level 4 institution. Maximum Security. (I do not know what it is now. This was in 96-97-98-99.) Do not believe -even for a second- that his story is rare. Do you have any idea how many 18-20 year olds are now doing LIFE under the 3 Strike Law, even though most have never committed a serious or violent crime?

And Folsom? Either Old or New? It's no different. It's a Level 4 Institution, but you have people in there who are only doing a 1 year sentence for total bull@!$%#. California -most states in fact- do not give a damn what your history is or what crime you were convicted for. They will send you wherever they have an open bed. Period. It doesn't matter if you have a 1 year sentence or you have a 100 year sentence. Your going wherever theres an open bed. It was that way in California and it was also that way in Florida and Tennessee.

Other than the Level 5 Units in Pelican Bay and Corcoran, any bed is a good bed as far as the system is concerned. Most of you can talk all day, but you have no idea what you are talking about. You are making the huge mistake of thinking the system has sense in the way it conducts it's business. It does not.

I've been there and done that. Do you get it? I've been there. I did close to 19 years and almost all of it was in Maximum Security. (See post 8.9) So unfortunately, I know all to well how it works. Now granted, I was finally released for good in 2002, so maybe some things have changed. But I doubt it, as some things just dont change and the sense that any DOC has is one of them.....

Screamer- Glad you have stayed out so long, especially after doing time at Pelican Bay! I know the place well, as I was on the activation team. Yep, I was an officer. You are exactly right about the conditions inside, except you missed a couple of points. First, Pelican Bay was operating under several state and Federal court orders, regarding the treatment of inmates. That made it harder to keep things in order. Segregated yard time ended with a local judge. Both the Northerners and Southerners took the prison to court because segregated yards kept inmates away from other inmates of the same race, thus they could not "mingle" with others of the same heritage. So when the first unsegregated yard went out, it only took 10 minutes before a riot ensued. And after every riot, the federal judge would review the film and issue new Use of Force orders.

Then you had Madrid, Armstrong and a host of other lawsuits that regulated what we could do and what inmates could do and have. The special meals for Muslums at a cost of 15 dollars a pop.

Then you had policy makers in Sacramento who had never been inside of a prison who made prison policy. Those folks cost us millions in lawsuits.

I have to agree too the 3 strikes is applied way too much for BS crimes. If you were a low level criminal when you went in, you became "educated" and you were never the same. Remember Hymes? He was in for auto theft. Got his time extended several times for prison crimes.

I live in another state now and here there are not riots. No hunger strikes. No staff assaults like California. Why? Because we don't have liberal court that take inmate's complaints serious. Prison is punishment here and other states. California prison time is a vacation. Most of the rehabilitation and training facilities have shut down due to weapon making by inmate allegedly there to learn a trade and a living when they got out. Inmates get elective surgeries because of the court decisions. And if the sugery goes bad, the inmate sues the State, not the doctor. One illegal fella got 900K and went back to a South America country a very rich man on California's dime.

Ok. Off my soapbox now.....

<<<sigh>> You may have had to extract me a time or two. :)

Seriously though, you are 100% right in MOST everything you said. However, you also missed a few points yourself. Just think Russel Crowe and GLADIATOR. :)

Now, most of your comment was mostly true. However, some of the lawsuits against various prison systems and/or specific prisons are just and warranted. I know and understand that prison is punishment, but we both know that alot of bull@!$%# goes on behind those walls. I had a SORT team destroy -literally- every piece of property and commissary I had, for no reason other than they didn't like my associations.

They literally poured shampoo into my coffee. Smashed my radio and tv. Stomped on all my food. They even tore up a bunch of my letters and pictures. (Broke my jaw too, but I asked for that part. :)

Now, can you even attempt to tell me that I was wrong by suing? And yes, I won and easily. Matter of fact, I came out waaaaaay ahead. (Gotta love them liberal Judges! Every once in a while, they do have their uses. Their usually as useless as tits on a bull, but in my case, she was awesome! Awarded me $5000 for the property itself and $3000 for suffering.)

Again, I understand that prison is punishment and it should be hard. But that doesn't include some @!$%# turnkey coming in with no agenda other than to harrass and bother people. There has to be checks and balances. If theres not, than justice has to be dished out in other ways and we both know what that means and how that justice gets served.

Then you had policy makers in Sacramento who had never been inside of a prison who made prison policy. Those folks cost us millions in lawsuits.

Now there we agree 100%. I equate this with Doctors who write about drug abuse, but have never smoked dope in their lives. @!$%# always looks good on paper, but we know the reality. In the end, you and I agree on many things, but if you are honest, than you know that everything I've said is true.

Yes, most of the people behind the walls deserve to be there. I certainly did. I earned and deserved every day I did. Never once have I made excuses or pointed fingers. I played the game, I got caught and I did my time in what I consider the right way.

The fact is, prison itself didn't have any bearing on me changing the way I live my life. @!$%#, in alot of ways, I had alot of fun in prison. I got off on the danger.....the sense of the unknown. I wasn't real big on the the rules and regulations and the fact is, I did alot more time than I should have because of it. If I told you the story on how my parole ended up, you would laugh your ass off. The short version is, california TERMINATED my parole just so they could DENY me entry into the state. I had been extradited to Tennessee from California and once I was granted Parole in Tennessee, I of course wanted to be paroled back to California since I was also on Parole in California.

Well, Cali's answer to my request was to terminate my Parole and deny me the transfer. I guess they didn't like me much. :)

In the end, I changed my life because I was simply tired. I don't know how else to describe it. I was just tired. Prison and everything involved with it is hard and it's tiring. I'd been at full throttle for close to 25 years and, well, I was just tired. So I moved on to the next chapter of my life.

It's now been close to 10 years since I was released and I will never go back unless I end up having to defend myself and I kill somebody or something. I'm a General Contractor and I build buildings for a living. Nothing glamorous, but I make a good living and i'm not dodging bullets anymore. (I have 2 in me right now. Thats enough.)

So anyways.....