Same result - you aren't allowed to 'humiliate' a child. Teachers hands are pretty much tied when trying to maintain order in the classroom.

Actually, I kind of like using the tape. The trouble with "you're not allowed to humiliate a child" is that eventually you end up giving every kid an award because otherwise they would be "humiliated" to discover they were not the "winners" you told them they all were.

Just expel the kid and when mommy has to take off work to fix it the kid will more than likely get much worse than a little tape.

When the only tool they leave you to use is the sledge hammer then you use it to full extent. The system is very broken when you have a child that KNOWS he can do as he pleases and if the teacher takes ANY action he can report on her.

"In 2009, a first grade teacher in Massachusetts was fired after she duct-taped about 20 students. "

And that's the right approach to this sort of incident. I suspect, given the state of the economy, that there are plenty of teachers out there who need jobs, and who wouldn't be given to this sort of abusive behavior. I say this as a father who believes (probably more than most parents) that firm discipline is absolutely necessary to raise a child to be a successful and happy adult. . . but this incident is WAY over the line. If this had happened to my son, I'd probably end up getting jailed over my reaction.

Sawyer, you nailed this. I will add the coddling and PC envoronment that all are winners is a bunch of BS. At the Army base elementary school I went to it was common for excessive talkers to have their pants yanked down and the hiney lite up by the teacher IN class. Nobody talked excessively and did great after who was in charge established.

This kid had to be a real pain in the A to get duct taped. A+ for this substitute teacher!

have their pants yanked down and the hiney lite up by the teacher IN class

Looking back at the teachers I had who did stuff like that, they turned out to be perverts who liked kids' bare bottoms.

It all starts in the home. It is the duty of the parents to teach their children to respect adults and give the child guidelines about how to behave in class.

The teacher is there to teach the whole class the lesson of the day.

When one child's actions interrupt normal lesson procedures they should be given a note to take to the Principal's office. The note should read, "Explain to me why I must behave in class." The Principal should remind that child how to behave correctly.

When a child is not taught by their parents to behave correctly in class, and they continue to disrupt class, that child should be sent back home to their parents who should teach them to behave correctly in class.

I agree that teachers should be given much more leeway in how they can discipline students, however, public humiliation is not the answer. Taping a students mouth, among other things, is incredibly dangerous. Borderline child abuse in my opinion. There are so many better and more effective ways to handle misbehaved kids. This teacher chose one of the more unintelligent and inhumane of ways. And people actually support that?

I am sure the law suit money will make it all better.

jrae-1215199

Same result - you aren't allowed to 'humiliate' a child. Teachers hands are pretty much tied when trying to maintain order in the classroom.

If you can't embarass and humiliate children, you're not really a parent or a teacher. You're just the biggest person in the room.

probably get fired for having them stand in corners now days too, kid probably deserved it, a lot of them do...

start video taping the classroom, at least everyone will be able to see the kids misbehaving just like they have started to do on buses.

Babs, Mrs. Jones did this and she was 5'1" and 180lbs. You would never forget that days lesson.

Someone should sue the mom for having such a disrespectful brat.

When I was in school, if you talked too much, you got a spanking. When your parent found out, you got another one at home. The next day, you kept your mouth shut so that you didn't get 2 more spankings.

Now, teachers are arrested, parents supports the kid talking too much...Is it any wonder schools are failing, education is falling behind the rest of the world, and parents are raising disrespectful kids with no manners or social skills.?

When I was in 3rd grade we moved off the AF base to my parents' first home they ever bought. It was in a VERY small town and because we were "new" we were not accepted. A year later, the gym teacher grabbed my arm on the way back into the school after being outside and SLAMMED me into a brick wall. I had a bruise the side of a dinner plate on my right hip and back. That same year, my brother (who was only 2 years older but 3 grades ahead) went through housemaid's knee, tennis elbow and whiplash from the physical abuse that his homeroom teacher put him through. My mother took him to the ER repeatedly and my brother was given a cervical collar and sling that he was told to wear. When my brother wore them as per doctor's instructions his homeroom teacher (who was the basketball coach) told him in class to "take those G-D things off" and refused to let him wear them. Other teachers also refused to let him wear the medical devices - even after my mother presented the ER records. The school refused to believe that this teacher could possibly be doing these things because HE grew up in town and we were MILITARY TRASH. My parents placed a note in our files that IF punishment was needed for any of us children they were to call my parents and THEY would come and administer the punishment in front of the principal but that if ANY teacher laid their hands on either of us they would have a lawsuit on their hands (this was in the late 70's).

Child abuse is CHILD ABUSE. Repeated application of duct tape to a 9 year old's face can do damage to the skin, if it is applied to extend above the mouth too far it can obstruct the nose as well and compromise breathing. Forget about the public humiliation, the PHYSICAL repercussions of using duct tape like that are horrifying! NO child deserves to be abused.

So how does one silence a little A-hole like this? PC just isn't working.

If a little bit of red duct tape at the age of 9 can keep the kid away from an orange jumpsuit as a teenager, I say: Go for it!

While I'm not saying it was right for the teacher to do what they did, considering what little if any resources teachers have left with which to discipline students, this might have been one of the few ways in which to control an out of control talker that would have any effect without really harming the kid.

Took the mom a week to get the kid, or fellow students, to confess up, give me a break. If they were that afraid of the teachers, or whatever, I doubt that the teachers would need to resort to things like this.

Speaking from experience, I had an 8th grade homeroom teacher, way back when, who did this very same thing, but where I draw the line at is that our teacher wrapped duct tape all the way around the student's heads, which produced some very painful experiences when the tape was removed, plus a significant amount of lost hair. That I thought was definitely going a bit overboard, especially as other teachers wouldn't allow the students so wrapped to come into their classrooms, and thus the tape had to be removed and then reapplied each time we as a class had to go to various other classrooms throughout the day, and then afterwards return to out homeroom.

Please explain EXACTLY how or why that can be considered EXTREME?

Um...Because it can lead to suffocation for one, and the incorrect removal of duct tape can damage the skin sometimes leading to infection-hence the warning labels you find on stronger tapes and why duct tape is not used for body waxing.

There is nothing wrong with disliking the slacking discipline standards, but physical punishment is too far. Psychologists for years have been saying it doesn't work.

IXlR8 ru sure you did not go to catholic school. Under no circustances should a teacher take down a students pants to paddle them.

For the rest of you out there praising this teacher. Humiliation is not the way to get someone to do what you want them to. This is school not bootcamp.

Had a substitute teacher tell me last year that she made a middle school student write "I will not call my teacher a bitch" fifty times on a sheet of paper after the boy called her a bitch three times.

The kid went home and told his parents and the next day his irate father stormed into the principal's office and said that "no substitute teacher was gonna tell his child what to do" and that "kids don't have to show any respect to substitute teachers."

Monkey see. Monkey do.

Frankly, if your child is acting up in class, talking when asked not to, is disruptive, then you as a parent need to take that child in hand. Teachers are not your babysitters, they are not your nannies and your teachers are trying to teach an entire class without the interruptions from certain students.

I say hurray for the teacher and too bad that teacher can't tape just what those monsters you call kids do during class.

Too bad teachers can't video tape class, just so the parents can watch just what their precious kids do.

The school is not bootcanp, but its a place of learning. YOU need to tell US what you would do to maintain order. Maybe bootcamp is where this brat belongs. He sure should not be in the classroom until he learns to behave.

cullerco, My sophomore English teacher added a paticular nice touch. He drew the circle high so you you had to stand on your toes. If you really p!ssed him off you had to hold a waste basket over your head. Every time I got that punishment I deserved it. All three times!!! That was a Catholic School. In those days if you told or let your parents know you got punished a second time for acting out in school and misbehaving by your parents. As a part time class clown I wonder exactly what did the kid do to p!ss off the teacher?

My guess is that the people on here condoning the use of humiliation are not parents. I have three sons ages 9, 8, and 3. I have found that after age 5, spankings become less and less effective as a form of discipline. The best thing about kids liking video games, television, ipods, and other electronics so much is that they can be taken away. A week without electronics has kept my older kids on the straight and narrow for years now. Physical discipline, no matter how severe, just shows a lack of intelligence and honestly a hint of laziness to the person doing the discipline. For a teacher, I would imagine that taking away the kids recess, informing the kids parents, and/or detention might be a better avenue of approach.

The problem for me with this story isn't so much that the teacher taped the kid's mouth shut (though it seems a bit excessive to use DUCT tape which could remove skin when removed) but that it took interviewing 100 kids to get to the bottom of what happened.

If the teacher didn't think that she had dont anything wrong, she would have sent a not home to the parents saying "today junior felt he was not able to keep himself from disrupting the class. To help him remember not to speak, we taped his mouth closed for 30 minutes during math class" or something along those lines.

At the very least, I'm certain that at some point during the investigation the priciple asked her "Hey, did something happen with Bobby Smith on Tuesday? His mother called and is concerned that he doesn't want to come to school all of a sudden." and the Teacher then LIED about it saying "No, I can't think of anything unusual happening..."

Making a poor discipline choice is one thing. I can forgive an error in judgement much more readily than I can deliberate abuse and cover-up of a child. She knew she'd get in trouble, that's why she hid it.

Travis, I agree that taking away privileges is the best discipline when kids are older.

We spanked our two sons occasionally when they were between the ages of 2-4, but only for challenging our authority or rebellious behavior. When they were a little older, they stood in the corner (kind of a time out) to think about their disobedience. Later on, it was taking away privileges like you said - computer and tv time.

We never had any trouble with our boys in high school and they are both in college and working now. They still bring friends home for weekend visits and we've got a good relationship with them.

Of course, a substitute teacher only has one day and a limited amount of time to deal with disrespect and disobedience. He/she is at more of a disadvantage than a regular teacher that deals with the same students every day. Kids often are at their worst behavior for subs.

I say get the disruptive child out of the classroom, send them to the office.

If you duct-tape a child's mouth shut and the kid sneezes, the kid could potentially loose their ear drums.

Duct taping a kids mouth shut is dangerous and stupid.

Liberal parenting at its finest, don't discipline your child, let him do as he pleases is not a solution for the life ahead. All to often to-days schools have become baby sitting services and undisciplined children disrupt the class. For many parents the child can do no wrong. Many learn no manners or respect for the teacher, because they know the teacher can't do anything about it, except send them to the principals office.

Duct taping the kids mouth was going a little too far. I am all for disciplining kids, but this is something that a teacher should not be doing. If the kids refused to keep quiet he should be sent to the principals office and the parent called to come and get their kid because they have been suspended for the rest of the day. Let the parent be inconvenienced once or twice having to leave work or interrupt their day to come and get their brat and maybe the parent will start doing something to ensure that their kid behaves in class. So long as teachers have no recourse and the parents are not inconvenienced by the child's behavior, the poor behavior will continue. You need to make the teachers problem with the kid the parent's problem as well in order to get the parents to do something about the issue.

Of course in this case the parent will do nothing to address the underlying reason for their kid having his mouth duct taped. All the parent is seeing right now is the dollar signs from the settlement they are going to get from the school district for this substitute abusing their poor little boy. The kid will get the absolute wrong message and feel justified that they did nothing wrong because the parents are suing and getting a lot of money for what happened. My guess is that this kid will continue to be a problem for teachers in the future and will end up getting expelled when the district finally decides they have had enough.

What the mom should be upset about is the fact that her kid wouldn't stop talking in class. None of this would have happened if he behaved!

TravisE..... When I was a child I was paddled on no more than a half dozen occasions....and I deserved each and every one....I did not think my father was lazy...I knew exactly what I had done wrong and I knew the consequences....... When my son was younger he was the recipient of the same type of spankings...each one earned with hard work on his part...he also knew exactly what he did, knew it while he was doing it........ I was not a lazy parent.... I have a wonderful relationship with my father...and with my son...... My son called me and thanked me for teaching him manners and not letting him run wild like his peers who's parent gave them "timeouts" and just took away their toys. All children are not alike.....it is lazy and unimaginative for you to assume your way is the only way. For the record.... I hold a PhD in Anthropology...my son Graduated with honors from a tough University... My grandchildren are being raised the same way we were and my son and his wife get compliments on how well behaved they are. That being said.... the duct tape was a very poor choice and the substitute should be fired.

Whatever happened to taking away recess, or making misbehaving children stay after school? What happened to sending the kid to the principal, or sending a note home to the parents? No where in the article does it say this child has a history of getting in trouble- it says there was a 9 year old boy who got mouthy with a substitute teacher. 9 year olds (in general) are mouthy and obnoxious. It's the age. So you nip it in the bud by sending the one making the noise out of the class room as an example. No teacher has the right to lay their hands on any child.

"Psychologists for years have been saying it doesn't work."

The problem with psychology is that it got us to this point in the first place. Psychology urged society to label each child as "special" and "unique" and encouraged society to give every child a trophy just for showing up. Real work was not needed to succeed. All you needed to do was arrive.

And now, we have students who believe anything they want should be given to them and parents who willingly comply with that belief. In my school, we have had seniors blatantly plagiarize research papers, get caught and given zeroes, and go home whining to parents. The parents then storm the office, complaining of how their child is being "picked on" and demanding a second chance. And in the name of keeping the peace, the principal caves and the teacher is forced to issue an alternate assignment. How is this fair to other students? We're not teaching them anything about the real world.

The problem with psychology is that it got us to this point in the first place. Psychology urged society to label each child as "special" and "unique"

The problem isn't the science, its the parents. Period. Kids can get away with almost anything these days because they have parents that allow them too. Its not that different with animals. If you allow your dog to p*ss on the carpet, he's going to keep doing it unless you intervene.

As I said in prior posts, teachers should be given more leeway in their discipline options, but there is a reason we've moved away from using physical punishments on children.
And that reason is the same reason we don't use corporal punishments in the adult workplace...

I am amazed at the #of people who think duct taping a 9 year old is okay?!

All he did was talk too much; oh sure, it MAY cure him of talking too much, but that doesn't make it right.

Public humiliation over such a trivial act (talking) is way over the line. I'm no PC guy, but just because you were strapped, hit with a ruler etc, or whatever..."back in the day", is nuts.

This is assault, and should not be condoned.

The only one at fault in this whole scenario is the mother. She has raised a spoiled, disrepectful brat. If she wants to put up with him, fine, but no else should, including a teacher. A failure of a parent like this woman is very common.

A friend of mine is a teacher. She told me about a "student" in her elementary class who never did his homework. All the kids filled out assignment notebooks at the end of the day, specifying what needed to be done. They had to show it to their parents who had to sign the notebook. But he would show up every day, no homework done. Because of that, along with other kids in all the grades who didn't do or complete assignments, he would be sent out of the room to one specifically designed for the homework truants to complete the work. They could not return to class until it was done. He would cry, protest and keep screaming: "I don't want to do it!" But he remained there, in tears and rage, until it was done. Also because he consistently refused to do the assignments, he was not allowed to go on things like field trips which made him cry and protest even more. He told his mother about it and she came to the school, incensed that her son was being "mistreated." The teacher and principal met with her, explaining the policy, and stating that all the mother had to do was make sure her son did his homework. She replied: "I won't do that." "Why?" they asked her. "Because," she retorted self-righteously, "making my child do something he doesn't want to is bad mothering." When the school refused to bend or break the rules for her spoiled spawn, she pulled him out - to everyone's relief - and decided to "homeschool" him since the public school system "failed" him.

Well, there you go. Anytime a kid needs to be disciplined, including by duct taping (when I was in school, teachers hit unruly kids and they hoped their parents didn't find out because they'd get a few more hits at home rather than receiving the consolation of an inept mommy or daddy), it's because of the parents (or, now in many if not most cases, parent-singular). Teachers are not to blame; only parents are. If you can't raise them right, don't have them. If you have them and don't want to raise them right, keep everyone un-exposed by your toxic second-hand child. You may think your child is the most precious, wonderful thing in the world. But you're the only one who thinks so. Everyone else knows that whether or not you had it, it would make no difference to the world.

trifectapat

I am amazed at the #of people who think duct taping a 9 year old is okay?!

All he did was talk too much; oh sure, it MAY cure him of talking too much, but that doesn't make it right.

Public humiliation over such a trivial act (talking) is way over the line. I'm no PC guy, but just because you were strapped, hit with a ruler etc, or whatever..."back in the day", is nuts.

This is assault, and should not be condoned.

Spend a week in a classroom filled with kids raised by spoiling parents and then come back and offer your opinion.

By the way, at your place of work, if an employee continues to prattle on and on, disturbing the work environment, and was told to stop but wouldn't and ended up getting fired, would you say that his/her termination was "over the line" over something so "trivial?"

Are u folks serious ??? U think duct taping another being is OK ? No one has the right to evade someone's private space like that. That is overboard. U're lacking common sense. I guess u would think it's ok if a teacher puts their finger on your child's forehead and push while sternly chastising them. U couldn't even do that in boot camp w/out getting in trouble.

Jerry-1903677

trifectapat

I am amazed at the #of people who think duct taping a 9 year old is okay?!

All he did was talk too much; oh sure, it MAY cure him of talking too much, but that doesn't make it right.

Public humiliation over such a trivial act (talking) is way over the line. I'm no PC guy, but just because you were strapped, hit with a ruler etc, or whatever..."back in the day", is nuts.

This is assault, and should not be condoned.

Spend a week in a classroom filled with kids raised by spoiling parents and then come back and offer your opinion.

By the way, at your place of work, if an employee continues to prattle on and on, disturbing the work environment, and was told to stop but wouldn't and ended up getting fired, would you say that his/her termination was "over the line" over something so "trivial?"

-------------------------------------------

@ jerry

I have spent time in the classroom and i agree with their opinion.

Your comparison is apples and oranges. It makes no sense. What does getting fired for disobeying company policy has to do with being humiliated in public and someone putting their hands on you in an aggressive manner.

So what punishment wouldn't humiliate them? You can't put them on a chair with the dunce cap because that would humiliate them. You can't put them in a corner because that would humiliate them. Anything that you do would humiliate them because it would be bringing attention to them. I say send them to the principal's office and make their parent come and get them and suspend them for a week. But we don't even do that anymore. Now we have to have in school suspension so that we don't inconvenience the parents. Discipline your children, teach them right from wrong and quit thinking that your children are all little darlings who would never do anything wrong.

Donna P-2692688

So what punishment wouldn't humiliate them? You can't put them on a chair with the dunce cap because that would humiliate them. You can't put them in a corner because that would humiliate them. Anything that you do would humiliate them because it would be bringing attention to them. I say send them to the principal's office and make their parent come and get them and suspend them for a week. But we don't even do that anymore. Now we have to have in school suspension so that we don't inconvenience the parents. Discipline your children, teach them right from wrong and quit thinking that your children are all little darlings who would never do anything wrong.

You go, Donna! When kids (as well as adults) are humiliated in public (and I'll go further and say putting hands on them in an aggressive manner, as someone says we shouldn't), then maybe they'll learn that they're not the rising and setting of the sun. And parents need to understand, realize and accept the fact that their precious little china doll children are not viewed the same way by anyone else. Parents create brats. Brats need to be treated as brats. And parents who make them brats need to be held accountable. And that goes for any and all posters who here who say "if anyone ever did that to my child..." If someone did that to your child, it's because of you, you failure as a parent, you. If you don't want someone doing that to your child, then raise the creature right or keep it away from the public. It's your spawn, you deal with it. No one should have to.

Let the public humiliation begin. Actually, let it begin again as it did when I was in school and problems were nipped immediately in the bud.

I have to stop laughing so I can type. Duct tape really? Everyone of you who think duct tape sticks to human skin, please go give it a try. Duct tape stick to ducts. Sticks to itself very well, skin? not so much. If the teacher wrapped the tape around the victims whole head, sure that's a problem. Not what happened. Kid probably was handed the duct tape and told to put it on his own mouth. That's where the "public humiliation" comes in. He knows he was out of line and he willingly put the tape on to enhance his performance. Not kidding me.

My son came home one day and said Mom my teacher slammed me into the wall. Bruises already forming. I went to see the Principle after school the next day, Teacher was there. Denied everything. Said he sent my son into the hall for back talking when asked if he had his homework. Huh, that's what my son said. Teacher then followed him into the hall and slammed him into the wall. Oh no, the Principal said, Teacher would never do that! I walked back to the classroom with the Teacher chatting about my sons homework.Seems Teach assumed boy didn't do math and boy gave Teach the homework and embarrassed him..... I seductively back the teacher to the wall and quietly promised to do whatever he did to my son to him so the next time he laid hands on my child he better consider the consequences. No witness but my son. Just like when he manhandeled my son. Man never put his hands on my son again.

Mo-563393

I have to stop laughing so I can type. Duct tape really? Everyone of you who think duct tape sticks to human skin, please go give it a try. Duct tape stick to ducts. Sticks to itself very well, skin? not so much. If the teacher wrapped the tape around the victims whole head, sure that's a problem. Not what happened. Kid probably was handed the duct tape and told to put it on his own mouth. That's where the "public humiliation" comes in. He knows he was out of line and he willingly put the tape on to enhance his performance. Not kidding me.

My son came home one day and said Mom my teacher slammed me into the wall. Bruises already forming. I went to see the Principle after school the next day, Teacher was there. Denied everything. Said he sent my son into the hall for back talking when asked if he had his homework. Huh, that's what my son said. Teacher then followed him into the hall and slammed him into the wall. Oh no, the Principal said, Teacher would never do that! I walked back to the classroom with the Teacher chatting about my sons homework.Seems Teach assumed boy didn't do math and boy gave Teach the homework and embarrassed him..... I seductively back the teacher to the wall and quietly promised to do whatever he did to my son to him so the next time he laid hands on my child he better consider the consequences. No witness but my son. Just like when he manhandeled my son. Man never put his hands on my son again.

First of all, it's principal, not principle. Second of all, someone who can't correctly spell principal cannot be believed about his/her kid when it comes to not properly doing homework, and that's the fault of the parent.

I thought the duct tape was a pretty good idea... but the bigger issue is should we even have public schools in this country??? now that is the real issue...

well, I think both are necessary-- mama needs to insure a well behaved kid....and teacher needs to know this is not how to handle it. I don't know how they can these days....nobody wants little junior scolded. But this doesn't seem to be a very good way to handle it.

Got any kids, Tom? If so, my guess is that everybody but you considers them awful little monsters.

What ever happened to contacting the school administration or the parent and giving them an opportunity to work with a teacher to support any negative behavior. Rarely do you get ahead by humiliating a child in front of others.

As for "nobody" wants little junior to get scolded...duct taping his mouth shut in front of classmates is a big leap from scolding. I think there a great many parents, given the opportunity, would take steps at home to repair negative behavior at school.

that's right, beat down lisa. while duct taping a child is never going to be the right answer (then again...) teachers, substitutes included, are now responsible for cleaning up the parents messes. Including this parent. I doubt she went straight to duct tape, bypassing more "adult" courses of action like requesting the child behave. being an adult is great but teachers aren't paid extra for baby sitting or zoo keeping. the few times i've been on my son's school bus i feel nothing but sorry for the driver. she's assualted every day with back talk, cursing, sexual innuendo between students and just typical mayhem. all of you who want to act "adult" with this issue just keep your head in the sand with your "give peace a chance" mind set.

"Well, if this student would have listened to the teacher and kept his mouth shut he would not have duct tape over his mouth." - lisa

You have got to be kidding me. Seriously? How about sending the kid to the office, or any of the other disciplinary possibilities not involving abuse?

". . .being an adult is great but teachers aren't paid extra for baby sitting or zoo keeping." - Reggie

This teacher didn't act like an adult. The punishment administered was the sort a child would dream up. For the record, maintaining discipline of the students has always been a part of their job, and schools have regimented sets of procedures for doing so, which don't require physical abuse of child. Maintaining discipline has indeed gotten tougher, but that's no excuse for what this substitute did.

Yashmak: Please, get off your high horse. I didn't condone putting the tape on the childs mouth but all of you with your "schools have regimented sets of procedures... " nonsense is just whistling past the grave yard. That's why we pay so much for education and get so little in return. Everybody has this mealy mouthed attitude about getting children, and their parents, to be prepared to learn. I've got three kids attending public schools. it's close to being a zoo. The same kids who assault others, harrass others, and generally just make it harder on everyone else are always back in class after their previous disruption. Where else are they going? I'm military so I've been in enough places to know this is the norm, not the exception.

Lisa 3322183 and Captain Hammers:

Great posts! A part of the story that is missing is "exactly how badly would ANY kid have to be misbehaving to cause ANY teacher to just grab the duct tape?"

The story "focuses on the 'duct tape' but never details "what led up to it being used?" This little punk was most likely OUT of CONTROL and "truly deserved a LOT MORE than some duct tape!!" I'd guess he got off EASY.

Except in very rare cases, beyond mild skin irritation, "duct tape on human skin cannot cause ANY harm whatsoever!"

ANYONE suggesting it can is an IDIOT and a FOOL!

Funny but a child under the "care" of a foster mother DIED after being duct taped to their high chair in Maine a few years ago.... That certainly sounds like HARM to me.

Mental abuse and unwarranted physical restraint (in this case duct tape) is just as harmful if not more so in the long term than any physical abuse. That certainly sounds like HARM to me.

Wow adam...aren't you a jackass. I bet your kids are very well behaved having such a responsible adult like you as an example. I mean imagine someone disagrees with you and you insinuate they are a pedophile?

You say act like an adult yet you had a clear chance to do so in your post and just a few sentences later....insults!!!!

When you wonder why your kids bully when you told them not to..remember actions speak louder than words.

Duct tape certainly is not the answer and I would not have liked that to happen to my child.

But, on the other hand, I have a family member that is a substitute teacher at a public high school and the stories she tells me about the disrespect she endures daily would make your blood boil. Cursing the sub, laughing in her face, insolent remarks, ignoring requests to be quiet or do the schoolwork.

She said one kid was turned around in his seat talking to another student after she repeatedly asked him to be quiet. When she walked over and gently tapped him on the shoulder with her pencil, he turned around laughing because he thought it was a friend tapping him, but when he saw it was her, his expression changed to anger and he raised his voice and said, "Stop hitting me!" (like she was abusing him and he was threatening to sue her for it).

Best advice seems to be get the troublemakers out of the room, even if they just sit in the hallway, or send them to the office.

If parents would do a better job of reprimanding their own kids and make them behave and show respect to everyone then there would be no problems with them in school. But most of you parents think that your kids have a right to disrupt classes, be bully's, act obnoxious and you are making them the next generation of criminals.

As for taping the kids mouth, I don't see that as abuse if that kid was running it when asked not to.

In fact why dont' some of your parents take a day or two off and just walk around the school and listen to just what your kids are saying and how they are acting.

Tom i can't believe your post got collapse.

Reggie McVeggie

Yashmak: Please, get off your high horse. I didn't condone putting the tape on the childs mouth but all of you with your "schools have regimented sets of procedures... " nonsense is just whistling past the grave yard. That's why we pay so much for education and get so little in return. Everybody has this mealy mouthed attitude about getting children, and their parents, to be prepared to learn. I've got three kids attending public schools. it's close to being a zoo. The same kids who assault others, harrass others, and generally just make it harder on everyone else are always back in class after their previous disruption. Where else are they going? I'm military so I've been in enough places to know this is the norm, not the exception.

@ Reggie

Yshmark is right on...... No patronizing on his part. If u see kids as being in a zoo then it is the teacher's fault for not being able to keep them under control. If repeat offenders are coming back into the classroom then that is the fault of the school adm. for not putting their foot down. Typically many schools have a detention area for disruptives and if they act up in there they get suspended. Too many suspensions will lead to expulsion. So don't give me the nonsense about "sets of procedures" They are there for a reason. It's up to the school to use them properly. As for rigid sets of rules, u should know this all too well being in the military.

I have to admit my first reaction was "good, the kids probably a little @!$%# head trouble maker", then I thought, yeah if this were my kid and he was a little @!$%#, using duct tape is still a little over the top for me as a parent. We do, however, have a society today that does not take personal responsibility. The first reaction is to go after teachers instead of disciplining the kids.

My GF works at a high school in LA where the kids AND parents are so entitled that a vast number of them are on "special needs" waivers simply so they can have longer to take test and get all sorts of other accommodations when they are not legitimately "special needs" kids. The reason this happens is that this waiver is easy to get for the parents and does not follow them when they graduate, there are no consequences, no asterisks on the transcript.

K. Bartlett,

Respectfully,

While that may be true of the high school in LA at which your GF works, there are many kids who legitimately need more time to take tests and/or receive special accommodations for various reasons. My son is one of them. He has Asperger's Syndrome, and is on an IEP for this condition. For him, just sitting in close proximity to others if difficult. The noise and bright lights in the classrooms, along with many other conditions the rest of us don't even notice, are very anxiety producing for him.

I am not making excuses for any rude or inappropriate behavior on behalf of any student (my son has never had any problems in school), I just wish to make certain that the need for special accommodations is recognized for those who truly need it.

Thank you.

And the teachers have done that to no avail. Parents don't want to take the time to disipline the kid, or they think the kid didn't do any wrong, or they just don't care. A note home has to be mailed and you can bet that kid is gonna intercept it any way he can, or he knows his parents aren't gonna do a thing about it.

Teachers are being pushed into desperate acts to teach your ignorant kids because you the general public are blaming them for our kids not learning, well, If you got kids that won't zip his lips when asked and wont let the other kids alone long enough to pay attention, then the grades go down.

Oh how I long for the old days when you kids acts up in school, the principal was able to take care of it... big wooden paddle. Parents now days have the idea that their child is the teacher's and schools problem from 7am to 3pm, not mine. They could care less their kid is a fowl month, disrespectful little brat, it is not their problem. Then they scream and yell at the school for dealing with the issues they have repeatedly ask the parents assistance with. My kids were very respectable regardless of how the teacher behaved, and if there was a problem with the teacher, we would set up a meeting with all parties and figure out what can be done. I really feel for our teachers now days, and so ashamed of the parents who have no business having kids in the first place. Hey Parents discipline your kids, don't beat them, belittle them or embarrass them in front of their friends, spank them, ground them, take away their favorite things. #1 is no TV or Video games in the Bedroom...NEVER ever.. make them sit in a visible area to do homework, Not Their Room. Teach them respect and what will happen if they don't follow the rules. Simply YOU ARE THE ADULT, THEY ARE THE CHILD you make the rules and they must follow them. Also... take a look at what the are wearing to school, come on, your daughter goes out looking like a (girl who wants it), guess what she will be treated that way. Boys.. pull up the dam pants, you look like you are wearing your grandfathers clothes, its not cool, it just makes me want to come and yank on your boxers and give you a wedgie....

These days, you can't discipline a student without it being called abuse. They courts say you can't expel a student because they are guaranteed an education. If you send all your disciplinary students to a special school then you are humiliating them. However, what you are allowed to do is keep the rotten kids in class and turn out a classroom full of lousy students. As long as they are all lousy no one is being discriminated against and that's acceptable. How is it we all wonder why so many of our kids graduate from school and haven't learned anything?

The mom making her kid out to be blameless and a pure victim isn't doing him any favors.

It doesnt say anywhere where the parent claimed the kid is blameless. Comprehension is dying in America.

I don't know that the mother is validating the kids as blameless...that really was not discussed in the article. The kid was a victim because what the sub did was a huge overreaction to the situation. Districts typically have reasonable mediation's for disruptive kids. Even a sub should be responsive to district standards.

I have no problem with correcting the child...I have a big problem with any trusted adult in a positron of authority taking the low road.

It doesnt say anywhere where the parent claimed the kid is blameless. Comprehension is dying in America.

Really? This story's use of the quotes by mom (with none hinting at any misbehavior by her kid) makes it out to be a total sob story. If there's anything wrong with America as represented by this story, it's the "Special Snowflake" complex that parents feed their children these days.

the teacher must be a real monster to put duct tape on a child!

Tom, a little duct tape was more embarassing than anything and the kid probably needed to be embarrassed a little.

This isn't an enlightened society. The veneer of civilization is very thin. I have heard it describes as the difference between civilization and barbarism is 6 days without food.

Tom- "you don't do things like this to children" Really?? You're acting like she punched him in the face. If this is so humiliating and damaging to the delicate little flower, maybe mom should bubble-wrap him and keep him at home, he won't be able to handle the real world.

If that kid wouldn't shut up and let the rest of the kids learn then he deserved to be duct taped.

You are the type of parent that will have a kid that can't cope in the real world because he/she doesn't know how to behave.

.

It is not like he was taped to the wall. How about if a kid will not shut it the parents have to sit in a hour of class with them. And if that does not work expel the kid.

I like the parents in the class room idea!

I believe that it was a little extreme but my daughters a teacher and I can tell you for certain that not all principles are helpful!

The Mullet

It is not like he was taped to the wall. How about if a kid will not shut it the parents have to sit in a hour of class with them. And if that does not work expel the kid.

What hard working parent will have time to be sitting in a classroom ?

How about simply calling the parents and let them know they need to pick up their child early from school cause he/she was too disruptive. As a parent that would make me angry having to use up my personal leave time from work for something like that and my child would definitely know not let this happen again.

How is having to leave work to pick your kid up from school any different than having to sit in a classroom for an hour? Either way you will have to take personal leave time.

Donna P: I agree with you but I also have experience where my parents were asked to sit with my younger sister. Growing up, our schools mailed out letters to the parents' workplaces to ensure the parents received letters of bad behavior and report cards. My siblings and I were raised that we were guilty unless proven innocent otherwise. I am raising my child that way-she is guilty unless she can prove she is innocent. I know what my child would do and what she wouldn't do. She has been caught in lies about behavior at daycare and now that she is in school-lies about behavior in school. She is enrolled in a cyber-charter/on campus school. Her school does both: on campus and online. She was acting up real bad in online class to a point where her teacher actually called me. Not only did her teacher call me but a letter was e-mailed to me and one sent to my home. The one sent to my home was a behavior agreement between my child and her teacher. I liked that idea. The agreement was that my child understood that disrupting a class is wrong and will not be tolerated. She had to sign the agreement which stated that she agreed to behave better in class and she will follow all instructions given. The e-mail was a follow-up to the phone call which I also liked. I was sitting with my child when she was acting up. I was already on the ball with disciplining my child for her behavior. My child's teacher had to take away privelages for her webcam, mic, and blackboard tools. I praised the teacher. The following day, I made my child appologize not only to her teacher but the whole class for being disruptive. Plus she had to write an apology letter to everyone and explain her behavior. Many would tell me that's overboard for a 5 year old BUT if I didn't teach her that this behavior is NOT acceptable now, she will only get worse. Going back to my opening statement, if we got into big trouble at school, our parents were asked to sit with us in classes for at least a week. If our parents couldn't because of work-we had to find an adult to fill in. If that wasn't done-we'd get in school suspension which meant double homework and penalties such as cleaning desks, blackboards, gym equipment, etc. The punishments we recceived were tied to the "crimes" we committed. My younger sister decided afternoon classes weren't important and would ditch to smoke weed and drink with her friends. I knew what she was doing and informed my parents who didn't believe me. After all, I had two afternoon classes with her. Then the school and our step-father caught her red handed. She had to have my mom sit with her for a month before the school was able to call a conference with the school board. She was sent to an alternative school and then expelled for behavior from there 6 months later. She was in 10th grade at the time of the expulsion. My parents couldn't get her to understand that her behavior wasn't acceptable. I blame them because growing up: whatever she wanted she got. It didn't matter if she stole it or not. She literally didn't have any consequences for her behavior until it was too late. My parents had to go to court for her expulsion and my stepfather being military had to go to the base commander. I thought it was funny because they were forced to take parent classes because of her. It wasn't until she got arrested for underage drinking that they put their foot down. All they did was send her to my older sister after selling her stuff to pay the fines. Me-I did get into trouble at school a few times. My infractions weren't as severe: talking when I was supposed to be quiet, not following directions, having a messy desk, or simply not doing homework. I had a third grade teacher that would have the parents sit with us in detention if we got it. I only got one detention but it wasn't my fault even though I took responsibility for it: my study partner and I were sitting there bouncing the spelling list off of each other. She hated me and kept kicking me and telling me that I was getting words wrong when I wasn't. She got up and stormed off and left me alone after I told her to stop being so mean to me. I cried. My teacher gave me detention for crying and not doing my work. I explained to my parents and the teacher what happened and the other student confessed. The detention was revoked. Still I got into big trouble at home. I was hit with a frying pan for crying and they made me write my spelling words 50 times each. I was trying to do my work but because of the behavior from the other student: I couldn't. I cried because I got into trouble for something that wasn't my fault and because of the way that girl treated me. My 5th grade teacher in another state also gave our parents detention if we got in trouble at school for anything. He said that if the parents took responsibility for their children and taught them right from wrong, then we wouldn't need detention or suspension. I believe he is right. It is the PARENTS responsibility to teach their child respect and boundaries. Behaving in school is respectful not only to your teacher/substitute but also to your peers. You have students that want to learn and can't because of a disrespectufl child. Many parents won't come and pick up their students from school until after work. We had that happen at my middle school-a student's mother said that her daughter didn't do anything wrong and she wasn't leaving work to get her. They called social services who forced the mother to come get her daughter. The girl was being suspended for a phsyical altercation between another female student. Needless to say, that girl never came back to school-social servies was awarded custody of that girl. We read a year and a half later that this girl was in juvenile hall on attempted murder charges.She tried to kill her foster parents for disciplining her. It's a shame how some parents won't take time out for their children let alone to raise their child and discipline their child as needed. I hope that my child won't have behavior issues in school later on because she is quickly and swiftly disciplined for her infractions now. If she does, she will be discplined right then and there also. My child still recieves an occassional swat on the behind or a smack on the hand. She also has a stopsign just like my 2nd grade teacher had. If we were disrupting the class, we had to take a piece of masking tape and write ourselves whatever action we were doing that was disrupting the class. I had to do it for talking. I was being rude and I deserved to be punished. My stop sign said, "Stop! Do NOT talk in class without raising your hand and being called on". I had to have it taped to my desk all day long. My parents got a call from the teacher herself that day. I was hit with a belt across the face and behind. Even though that was and is abuse, I still turned out fine. I don't condone the use of anything when it comes to hitting your child except a flat open palm. Drawing to a point: parents should be held accountable for raising their child right-dsicpline your child not spare them from discipline. Parents should have to serve detentions with their child for misbehavior in class for repeated detentions for the same infraction. Forget the out of school supsension (which is why many children do act up-they don't want to be there in the first place). Give them inschool suspensions with consequences and make their parents join them. I bet after the first time for many-there won't be a repeat unless the parents believe their children are perfect angels (I'm not one of them). I believe that the parents should be taken to a magistrate if the child's behavior is dangerous and the parents do not do anything about it or fine the parents. I bet when it starts hitting the money-the kid's behavior will change. I will always be on my child for bad behavior no matter where it is: in the home, outisde of the home, in class, etc. I even make her stand in corners at stores if she steps out of line. She gets three warnings but the third warning comes with the consequence. I don't believe in waiting until you get home: the child by then has forgotten what s/he has done. I will make her stand in a nearby corner and after she serves her time out, we talk about it. I make her state she is sorry and for her behavior as well as what she thinks she can do to prevent it from happening. She is old enough to understand right from wrong but I also believe she should be a part of the solution. I believe this will help her realize there are other ways of solving her problems without acting up and it gets her thinking about what she has done. I've had parents come up and tell me they are proud of my immediate aciont when my child acts up in public. I've also had parents come up and condone what I'm doing. I simply tell them it is my child and I don't believe in waiting to discipline her until we get home. I know when I was 5, I didn't remember my actions when we were out by the time I got home so why would I expect my child to do that? Inconvenience the parents somehow and the child's behavior will eventually change-when the parents are forced to take time out of whatever they are doing to correct the situation or the child will be moved somewhere else.

People didn't have such easy access to the same types of weapons back then. It's not like they were any happier.

redmoth - MORE people had access to weapons back then because there were no background checks. MORE people carried weapons in their vehicles - out in the open for all to see.

I do not believe teachers should hit a child unless it was their own child. I believe that physical punishments should stay with the parents of the child. If my child needed a phsyical reprimansion: I would want to be notified and I would discipline my child phsyicall if necessary MYSELF. If a teacher hit my child-not only would my child have consequences at home but I'd also have problems with the teacher. I would report the teacher to the local authority OR school board or both. I have been known to spy on her during daycare and a summer program when I got reports of misbehavior. If she was in trouble at school/daycare she got in trouble at home too. You did have school shootings and what not back then-they were not blasted all over the media like now and they weren't as often.

Although i do agree there may be circumstances to using discipline to affect one's pride, it should not be anyone's decision except the parents.

JoeyJoeJo--no greater truth was ever spoken.

If some of the posters recall your elementary and middle school years, I think you'll probably remember many substitute teachers who fell into the "when the cat's away, the mice will play" scenario. In my school district, the qualifaction for a sub is a high school diploma and the willingness to put up with whatever he/she is faced with for just over $8.00 per hour. When I was between jobs, I spoke with a sub and was dissuaded from applying for combat pay.

Oh--and my daughter was sent to the Principal's office on the first day of Kindergarten for "socializing" while the teacher--whom I knew quite well--was trying to get the class on-task. The teacher was almost apologetic. I told her that making an example of my daughter would show the rest of the class that it wasn't a party, and that it would be the last time my sweetums let her mouth get in the way of a lesson.

She's now a sophomore in college and never was in the P's office again.

That made me laugh...thanks robbdee40!

Whats missing from this article is what is this schools policy on what the teachers are suppose to do when they have a child that is disruptive in a class? There has to be something for the teachers to follow so that issues like this do not happen. I will side with the teacher in that they did what they thought at the time to be prudent as they are trying to teach a whole class of students and do not need a child constantly misbehaving in there class but I do not feel that what the teacher did was proper either but it has happened and the rest is now history.

All schools need to have an absolute policy on this and many other topics and I wonder why they didn't go so far in this article not to mention what the policy was at this school.

Hopefully when this does go to court the judge will use a lot of common sense and maybe even teach the parent that what there child did was disruptive to every child there as well as the teacher and that their child is the reason this all happened due to his behavior period.

Parents need to take responsibly for their own kids period or the education the kids get will always suffer. Its not always about the teachers or the school. Children nowadays get away with way to much, whether at home or at schools and it has to change for the better or again the education a child gets will suffer as we see daily in news articles like this, in the not so olden days this would never have even made news and the kids came out just fine and even were the better for what they learned from there experiences from there classrooms and fellow students/teachers.

I'm sure many will not agree with me and that's fine but its always hard to look at ones self when seeing the problem.

that was the aim the kid had, to not be forced to go to school. His parents should understand that.

Then Fenix u should have continued reading why he didn't want to go back to school. When kid's problems are ignored, our future does get screwed up.

Salicylic Acid: good for warts, bad for lips.

Also no, embarrassment and humiliation are not what punishment is about. Punishment is about the development of social constructs and relationships within that construct that is evoked by the actual meting out of punishment; humiliation is not the end result, the end result is a transformation into a person that can operate within that social framework in a generally non-crappy way.

Short-term application of duct tape to lips is not harmful. Neither is soap in the mouth. The product isn't that dangerous, and you know it.

Also, yes, my fuzzy-thinking friend, embarrassment and humiliation are what being punished is about. Verbs and nouns are different. And the noun - punishment - has nothing to do with development of social constructs. It is simply discomfort applied by an authority to deter behavior inconsistent with an existing construct. Unless you'd prefer the rod to deter crappy engagement in our social framework, embarassment and humiliation are key.

Mimzy47

So, whats so bad about duct tape?

Embarassment and humiliation are what being punished is about, isn't it?

Yes and no Mimzy. Punishment for the sake of punishing someone then yes. A bully can punish people by humiliating them. But as a discipline measure, it can be if used as a corrective measure to prevent whatever act from recurring. However using it this way is best left in the hand of the parent to decide. No one outside the family should be allowed to humiliate their children.