Christ is actually quite busy Friday nights in the fall keeping tabs on all the high school games.

Who cares whether God cares about a football game. The issue is free speech. Shouldn't they be permitted to speak their beliefs, just as you are?

Be Serious- From your posts I assume that you would have no problem if the banner said Allah Akbar or There Is No God then? Because like you said, you not have to read them.

Pick yer poison mate. I'm with the kids comes hell or highwater.

There is no God, seriously. Religion is nothing but man's 1st attempt of universal law. If there is a God, IT must have a weird sense of humor (slavery, war, genocide, holocaust). I don't find these things funny at all.

It's not bothersome that they want to make them, it's bothersome that they refuse to accept separation of church and state. Keep this religious garbage out of public schools. It's the law of the land. Period.

thoughtful, does the school let anyone run on the field with any banner? No. The cheerleaders are the only ones. Therefore they are afforded special privileges others are granted. They must then act in an unbiased manner.

As Hartvig Lein points out, let people run with an Allah Akbar banner and see what happens. Let someone lead a prayer before the game over the PA system asking God to punish the US and Texas for being infidels. Yeah, free speech is OK when one agrees with it.

Only in Texas.

Free speech is for the individual. In this case, they represent the school, which is why they cannot have the signs. It's a public school. Is everyone that goes there a Christian? What about their opponents? Doesn't God care about them too?

Hartvig Lein, you are right. I may not like it very much but I can not change what they feel or believe. I can turn my head because that is the right thing to do. I do not have the right to condemn someone for their religious beliefs.

Why does it bother you that they want to make these banners? If you don't like it, don't read them. These quotes give them something you can't understand obviously. If you don't like religion, then don't like it but don't try to take that right away from those who do believe in God.

If I made a banner saying "All things are possible through Satan! Hail Him!" when I was in high school and brought it to a football game I guarantee you that people would have made a fuss about it. The school cannot take a side advocating any religion because its a public school. It is that simple.

I only have one piece of religious advice that I freely give: Be sure you worship a God you wouldn't mind spending an eternity with.

I think that most people woulkd get pretty tired pretty quickly of a "football" God who cares about a Texas high school football game while allowing children to starve to death in Sudan. Kind of a silly God at best and a mean and vindictive creep at worst.

What a silly argument, Patty. This is not about who God cares about (He loves everyone), it's about these young cheerleaders love of God. And you do not lose your constitutional rights at the doorstep of school property. The 1st amendment argues what government can and cannot do, not what the individual can do.

Be Serious, it doesn't really bother me that much except for the fact that many high schools in my area still insist on having a prayer before every game every Friday night.

It doesn't matter whether I'm religious or not. It matters that EVERYBODY is forced to be silent / pray. If you're religious and want to do so, fine go ahead and do so silently to yourself. Don't impose your beliefs on others.

But what ends up happening because some overzealous religious twerps decide to go out and try and make a point is that it creates friction. Are the players going to play harder because there are banners out there? If they're religious they'll have their quiet prayer themselves and get on with it. Being religious is not about showing off to others whether you are religious. It's about living your life in a certain way.

And btw I know plenty of non-religious people whose conduct in life is far more caring and considerate of others than many so-called religious people. Yet somehow they don't seem to find the need to go out and run around with banners.

I can't help but wonder what will happen the first time a public school makes the reference to Allah in a cheerleader banner

Why does it bother you that they want to make these banners? If you don't like it, don't read them. These quotes give them something you can't understand obviously. If you don't like religion, then don't like it but don't try to take that right away from those who do believe in God. It is hard for some of you to understand how someone can be so committed to a religion because you have never been faithful to a religion or belief system as theirs. All you are doing is spitting vulgar obscenities to religious followers. No matter how much atheists want religion to go away, I am sorry to inform you that it never will.

So, what is more important to you in this case? Your religion or the Constitution? You cannot have both. This is a PUBLIC school, and should represent the entire PUBLIC.

you have to be a very mentally sick and twisted person to worship a being who would spend his time fixing a high school football game in favor of the team that prayed the most when millions of children are starving to death around the world. I find it uttering nauseating that these cheerleaders were brought up to believe "god" would give two @!$%#s about a stupid f----ing football game with all the suffering that is going on in the world. If there is a being like that then I would rather spend an eternity in the depths of hell being stabbed in the ass with a pitch fork than spend one second praising such a self centered egotistical sadist as this "god" these empty headed bimbos have created in their own image.

So, what is more important to you in this case? Your religion or the Constitution? You cannot have both. This is a PUBLIC school, and should represent the entire PUBLIC.

@ pj - I always thought in this country, the representing of the entire public was the freedom of speech and ideas. The constitution and religious belief are not contradictory entities. You don't lose your right to free speech upon entering public school facilities.

that's right, you don't lose your right to free speech upon entering public school facilities. what you cannot do is use your religion to represent the entire school. these cheerleaders are wearing school uniforms on the school football field, thus they are representing the school. end of argument.

All you are doing is spitting vulgar obscenities to religious followers. No matter how much atheists want religion to go away, I am sorry to inform you that it never will.

@ beserious

While there are some vulgar comments up here (from both sides), the majority are not. They are simply pointing out that this is an inappropriate, and most likely unconstitutional, way to support a religion. If these cheerleaders were not in uniform and in the stands, it would not be an issue (as long as ALL signs were allowed). But they were in uniform and on the field, that makes them representative of the school. Can you not see the difference? I'll bet not everyone at that school is a Christian, and I'm sure they all aren't the same sect of Christianity. Not having religion in school protects EVERYONE'S belief system.

You don't lose your right to free speech upon entering public school facilities.

@Richod

Correct sometimes, not always though. as long as you are not representing the school. These girls were representing the school. Put the signs in the stands, allow ALL (respectful) signs. Different story.

Richod:

The Constitution and Religious Beliefs are entirely contradictory entities! This isn't an issue about freedom of speech and ideas. Not at all. This is an issue about mixing religion (specifically Christianity) with a government construct. The two do not mix! There is a REASON behind the core American value of "separation of church and state!" If you do not understand this, then you do not understand America.

Again, I say that the so-called "separation of church and state" is a constitutional limit on the government, NOT the citizens. That phrase does not exist in the constitution, but was written by Thomas Jefferson in a private letter to a Christian organization.

Richod:

Then those citizens must not live in America. Going by your logic I could say you have no right to freedom of speech or ideas because that would only apply to the government, not the citizens. Separation of church and state is a concept applied to our current society.

Patty @ 2.10

"In this case, they represent the school, which is why they cannot have the signs"

Richod @ 2.14

"What a silly argument, Patty. This is not about who God cares about (He loves everyone), it's about these young cheerleaders love of God. And you do not lose your constitutional rights at the doorstep of school property. The 1st amendment argues what government can and cannot do, not what the individual can do."

In this case these students are wearing uniforms with the name of a public, secular institution on them and thus they are acting as representatives of that institution. Do you think it would be appropriate for them to carry a banner that said "God is a Democrat" or for a cheerleader to carry a sign that says "Eat at Joe's" if her father was the person who owned Joe's?

@ Hartvig - Yes I do. It's called FREE SPEECH. Just because they wear cheerleader uniforms does not revoke their right to free speech - on or off the school grounds.

@Rosupi - The Bill of Rights applies to all US citizens, and the limits apply to the government. What constitution are you reading???

Again, I say that the so-called "separation of church and state" is a constitutional limit on the government, NOT the citizens.

You are correct. Therefore as a tax-payer funded institution, there are limits on what the school (and the cheerleaders are representing the school) can advocate. Looks like we agree. That wasn't so difficult was it?

Richod:

Separation of church and state may not be written in the constitution, but it can be applied using the first amendment: “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

In other words: the government cannot rule or restrict religion. But the same can also be applied to religion: religion cannot rule or restrict the government. Want to know why we are a secular nation instead of a theocracy? A basic understanding of this concept is why.

@ Rosupi - So explain to me how these cheerleaders expressing their free speech - limits, rules or restricts the government in any way.

@JM - The cheerleaders do not represent the school district, but themselves. Becoming a cheerleader doesn't rob them of their rights. " ...or prohibiting the free exercise thereof."

Richod

This is not about who God cares about (He loves everyone),

I'm curious as to why you refer to your deity as masculine? Women give birth and therefore create new life... why isn't your god a female?

it's about these young cheerleaders love of God.

May I suggest the cheerleaders join a convent? It seems the Catholic church has a serious shortage of young nuns these days. Why not be cheerleaders for Jesus full time?

and you do not lose your constitutional rights at the doorstep of school property. The 1st amendment argues what government can and cannot do, not what the individual can do.

Others have said this, but you don't seem to be catching on: public school students have a right NOT to be confronted by the god squad, especially if they are not part of the religious majority, i.e. Christian.

Imagine how it feels to be a Jewish child in our culture, or a Muslim child? They have the same rights as Christian children. Leave them in peace.

And for pity sake, let the boys on the field play football. Let the spectators watch the game. Is that really so difficult?

Richod @ 2.27

" Yes I do. It's called FREE SPEECH. Just because they wear cheerleader uniforms does not revoke their right to free speech - on or off the school grounds."

So by that same logic, as long as a teacher was able to get thru the rest of the classwork they would be free to spend any remaining time proselytizing to the class? Or to hang a banner outside of the school that says vote for a particular candidate or political party? How about at work? Do I have the right to wear buttons or clothes that promote a political agenda that my employer may not agree with? Is it ok to give religious testimony to my clients after I have completed my sales pitch?

Before you try to do any of those things I would suggest that you have new employment lined up because you're soon going to be needing it.

When you are representing a public, secular institution in a public form you are representing that institution on behalf of ALL of the members of the public NOT yourself. Espousing personal views on unrelated matters when you are speaking on behalf of that institution is not a matter of free speech but rather an attempt to use the standing of that institution to lend additional credence to your personal views. You cannot use the authority that being a teacher in the public institution gives you to promote you own personal religious beliefs in that classroom.

And that is exactly what these cheerleaders are attempting to do. They are at that game as representatives of a secular, public institution- not as representatives of a particular church, political party or hamburger joint. And as such their "speech" is limited to what that institute stands for.

Richod:

This is not an issue of free speech! The law (there is a law about this) states that it is illegal for public schools to promote any one denomination or religion at the expense of another.

Those cheerleaders are not "individuals" when dressed in uniform, they are the school. That is what I mean when I said "cheerleaders represent the school." They are an extension of the school, thus they are everything the school is and must abide by the same laws. Any laws applicable to the school is applicable to them. Thus, it is illegal for them to have a banner representing only Christianity while wearing their school uniforms at a public school event. If they had a banner representing all religions (and those who do not worship or believe) equally, then there would be no problem.

That was brilliant reasoning, Hartvig Lein.

Unfortunately, religion and reason don't mix. If only there were such a thing as laissez faire religious nuts...

There is simply no convincing religious zealots that their religious rights end where another's religious rights begin.

kaybeetoys- thanks

It drives me nuts when people say "You can't even mention god in school anymore". It's simply not true. But only at the appropriate time and in the appropriate forum at least when it effects others.

Actually I'm an atheist and I think that as many public schools as possible should offer courses in comparative religion PROVIDED:

1} that it gave proportional representation to all of the worlds major religions and at least a fair sampling of many of the less common ones

2) that the effects of co-mingling government and religion- such as is happening now in the Middle East or during the Inquisition or to the French Huguenots or countless other examples be taught along with the effects of religious intolerance like the Holocaust.

3) and finally that they give an accurate representation as to the views of our own founding fathers in regards to the separation of church and state- not the revisionist nonsense espoused by people like David Barton

Do that and maybe a few of these kids eyes will be opened beyond their own little insular worlds and maybe they'll come to realize that not everyone sees the world in the same way they do.

But I'm afraid that you are right. To far too many people religious freedom and tolerance only applies in regards to themselves and not to others.

@ pj - I always thought in this country, the representing of the entire public was the freedom of speech and ideas. The constitution and religious belief are not contradictory entities. You don't lose your right to free speech upon entering public school facilities.

As many of the public have come forward in this case and spoke their minds, I would say that your criteria has been met. The great thing about our Constitution was separating religious beliefs from the government. Now, how about some common sense and common courtesy.

These cheerleaders, their parents and their fans have no respect for other peoples' religious beliefs, and they call themselves Christians. I wonder what Jesus would say about all this.....................

"And when you pray, you should not be as the hyprocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward. But you, when you pray, enter into your closet, and when you have shut your door, pray to your Father which is in secret; and your Father which seeth in secret shall reward you openly." (Matthew 6:5-6)

jESUS loves the football.

Starving kids in Africa, he doesn't care so much about.

The Constitution says that our government shall not have a Church of the United States. It does not say that we cannot worship our own religion in public places. The real issue here is the appropriateness of agents of the school system to endorse a religion at a public function.

When cheerleaders are in uniform they are agents of the school and on the football field. Carrying those banners at that time and place is inappropriate.

These girls have the freedom of speech. If they want to use a religious banner, let them. Christianity has long kept its mouth shut...it needs to voice its opinion too!

GOD LIKES FOOTBALL- he already plays for Denver

An excellent point that deserves repeating:

namfonos

These cheerleaders, their parents and their fans have no respect for other peoples' religious beliefs, and they call themselves Christians. I wonder what Jesus would say about all this.....................

"And when you pray, you should not be as the hyprocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward. But you, when you pray, enter into your closet, and when you have shut your door, pray to your Father which is in secret; and your Father which seeth in secret shall reward you openly." (Matthew 6:5-6)

Having been raised a Christian, I find it depressing that the teachings and the philosophy of Jesus are no longer part of the religion. Christianity has been hijacked by sanctimonius hypocrites and used by the GOP to divide America. Don't pretend otherwise, you holier-than-thou types...you know who you are.

Kaybeetoys - I am a laissez-faire religious nut of sorts. It doesn't seem to do much good.

Holy crap just noticed your comment right above mine - yes, the teachings are nearly obliterated. It's always "Us against Them" - poor phraseology and an uncooperative spirit. It's all part of the natural order of things here - do you not think so?

Yes, most of Christianity is no longer a religion. It's been reduced to a tribe by cultures such as these, complete with the ritualized warfare of football. Us against them.

Political parties are tribes too. Easier not to have to think for yourself.

Hey 11B2EB4: The funniest think is - all these 'religious people' who get so worked up over believing in God - when they find out it's real. Oh yea...it is to roll on the floor laughing. Then some people will be looked at with different understanding...oh yes. I swear it's true...it has to be.

G-Dog, I'd call myself an agnostic. I'm relieved to see that so many of the comments here defend the bedrock principle of this country: the separation of church and state.

Although I am no longer a Christian (they wouldn't have me... I think too much), I do believe that if we all lived our lives the way Jesus taught, with humility, compassion, tolerance, acceptance, forgiveness, and love for our fellow man (regardless of his race or religion) this would be a much better world in which to live.

The typical evangelical Christian seems only interested in the afterlife. Their philosophy is "screw the world and everyone in it unless you have 'personally accepted Jesus Christ as your savior', you are going to hell and are not worth bothering with, except as a potential convert".

On the other hand, if you are an ax murderer, a con man, a serial adulterer, a liar, and a cruel, greedy, arrogant S.O.B., and you've pledged allegiance to Jesus, you've got a ticket to heaven!

I'd rather go to hell, thanks, than spend eternity with those mindless sanctimonius folks.

Ha, hi kaybee, - no, can't think of a church that would want me either. There is no hell silly - it's all God, Everything. You, me...everybody. It's a fact.

Two subjects the left knows nothing about, God and the Constitution. No where in the Constitution does it say anything about separation of church and state. If you all believed in God, you all would not be so intolerant of others and judge them! Before making an ignorant comment you need to know God and the Constitution!

Perfect example of what I'm talking about bluebal. If you're from another tribe, then of course you can't be a believer or understand as we do.

Try thinking on your own, rather than as right or left. It will free you.

Read the First Amendment, blubal42, and subsequent rulings by the U.S. Supreme Court. For example:

Originally, the First Amendment applied only to the federal government. A number of the states effectively had established churches when the First Amendment was ratified, with some remaining into the early nineteenth century.

Subsequently, Everson v. Board of Education (1947) incorporated the Establishment Clause (i.e., made it apply against the states). However, it was not until the middle to late twentieth century that the Supreme Court began to interpret the Establishment and Free Exercise Clauses in such a manner as to restrict the promotion of religion by the states. In the Board of Education of Kiryas Joel Village School District v. Grumet, 512 U.S. 687 (1994), Justice David Souter, writing for the majority, concluded that "government should not prefer one religion to another, or religion to irreligion."

Everson used the metaphor of a wall of separation between church and state, derived from the correspondence of President Thomas Jefferson. It had been long established in the decisions of the Supreme Court, beginning with Reynolds v. United States from 1879, when the Court reviewed the history of the early Republic in deciding the extent of the liberties of Mormons. Chief Justice Morrison Waite, who consulted the historian George Bancroft, also discussed at some length the Memorial and Remonstrance against Religious Assessments by James Madison, who drafted the First Amendment; Madison used the metaphor of a "great barrier."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution

Mormonism did not exist when the U.S. Constitution was written. It required a later ruling to outlaw polygamy.

Be grateful that we have freedom of religion (and freedom from religion). You might not like the religion that the government decided you must practice.

G-Dog wrote: poor phraseology and an uncooperative spirit. It's all part of the natural order of things here - do you not think so?

Example after example of us chasing our own tails shows the natural order - the plan - the plain simple truth. It is astounding - that it is true. Astounding...and very happy - from my point of view.

blubal42-

Before you go calling people ignorant of the U.S. Constitution and the Bill of Rights- both of which I have copies of up on my wall not 10 feet from where I am sitting- I would suggest you do a little study on the subject yourself.

The following are quotes from letters written by James Madison, one of the most religious of our founding fathers and known as the principal author of the Constitution:

>Every new and successful example, therefore, of a perfect separation between the ecclesiastical and civil matters, is of importance; and I have no doubt that every new example will succeed, as every past one has done, in showing that religion and Government will both exist in greater purity the less they are mixed together (Letter to Edward Livingston, July 10, 1822).

>I must admit moreover that it may not be easy, in every possible case, to trace the line of separation between the rights of religion and the civil authoritywith such distinctness as to avoid collisions and doubts on unessential points. The tendency to a usurpation on one side or the other or to a corrupting coalition or alliance between them will be best guarded against by entire abstinence of the government from interference in any way whatever, beyond the necessity of preserving public order and protecting each sect against trespasses on its legal rights by others. (Letter Rev. Jasper Adams, Spring 1832).

>The civil Government, though bereft of everything like an associated hierarchy, possesses the requisite stability, and performs its functions with complete success, whilst the number, the industry, and the morality of the priesthood, and the devotion of the people, have been manifestly increased by the total separation of the church from the State (Letter to Robert Walsh, Mar. 2, 1819).

>Strongly guarded as is the separation between religion and & Gov't in the Constitution of the United States the danger of encroachment by Ecclesiastical Bodies, may be illustrated by precedents already furnished in their short history (Detached Memoranda, circa 1820).

>To the Baptist Churches on Neal's Greek on Black Creek, North Carolina I have received, fellow-citizens, your address, approving my objection to the Bill containing a grant of public land to the Baptist Church at Salem Meeting House, Mississippi Territory. Having always regarded the practical distinction between Religion and Civil Government as essential to the purity of both, and as guaranteed by the Constitution of the United States, I could not have otherwise discharged my duty on the occasion which presented itself (Letter to Baptist Churches in North Carolina, June 3, 1811).

Again, this is the man who wrote the Constitution. It is abundantly clear that his intent was to keep politics out of religion and religion out of politics. Anyone who says different is just wrong.

I could provide you with further documentation from the writings of Thomas Jefferson and John Adams, but I think I've already proven my point.

I just wonder if these people who are supporting this in the name of free speech would feel the same if somebody brought a banner with quotes from the Satanic Bible? If that were to happen I bet more than a few tunes would be a changing. By Ms. Matthews logic as long as I spent my own money on it and didn't make it on school grounds it should be all good right?

The simple fact that the banners could and probably do make students of other faiths uncomfortable doesn't seem to be an issue for the school. This is a public school which is funded by tax dollars paid by all the citizens not just the Christian ones doesn't seem to be an issue here. What would be the outcome of another religious group displayed similar signs, I'll bet they would be told that their signs were not appropriate.

As a school teacher, I can tell you that I absolutely could not wear anything promoting a particular religion or political candidat/party when in my school building working. If I attended a football game in the stands and chose to wear a political leaning shirt, that would be no problem.

If I was to walk with other teachers on the track representing the school during halftime, I could not wear the shirt. The school and district absolutely has the right to decide what their representatives wear and preach when they are actively representing those institutions. Do you really think a college football player would and should be allowed to wear a patch advertising his father's law firm while he's playing a game?

These distinctions do matter. I see none of the supporters of these banners have addressed the possible banners praising Allah, and this is the crux of the matter. You do not support free speech, it just so happens you agree with this particular speech. I am absolutely certain there are many things the girls could have written that you would demand they be suspended for ("I have the right to choose what to do with my body", "All people in love should be allowed to marry", "People only kill people with the help of guns")

I don't necessarily believe any of those statements, but I know enough of you detest them enough that you would be clamoring for these girls to be suspended if that was what was on the banners instead.

Freedom of speech only pertains to when you agree with those who don't.

If the kids believe in god what is so wrong with that? Why are those who don't believe so afraid of those who do?

I don't own a bible, never read one, I don't go to church, don't plan on going and I don't have and never have had a problem with a sign that uses the words thank god, Jesus Christ, in god we trust or any words of that nature. People who go to church Mormon, Jehovah, Christian or Catholic or any other religion don't offend me....that is their choice not mine. Why do people have to make such a big deal out of the small stuff? We have so many other problems and concerns happening right now in the USA and the word god is not one of them and if you think it is then we have even bigger problems.

MCR-4250086

There is no God, seriously. Religion is nothing but man's 1st attempt of universal law. If there is a God, IT must have a weird sense of humor (slavery, war, genocide, holocaust). I don't find these things funny at all.

That is your own opinion. Why would u blame God for mankind's sins ? We did it to ourselves. U need to be educated and have a better understanding before spouting off. Better to be quiet and thought a fool than to speak and be proven one.

MCR - Yes, it is a very devious plan. So devious, our minds reject accepting the truth. That's the plan, and it is by design. There is no question about it - no question at all.

"Why would u blame God for mankind's sins?

rkb, because we each and all a part of God. It isn't blame, silly. It is God's design, and it is so slippery to grasp - we simply will not. We refuse the truth, by design - it is deceptively simple, yet almost impossible to believe. I call it God.

and just how do these cheerleaders think god deals with the just as fervent prayers from the hearts of the opposing teams cheerleaders? does he weigh the relative sincerity? the intensity? the good works of the pleaders? the amount of the tithes in the last fiscal year? their chastity? who prayed first? the number of prayers? the frequency from each? how many attended services last week?

gee whiz girls, give god a break to deal with world hunger or sumpthin'?

I am sick to death of this crap. If I need to walk down the street and look at mexican flags, listen to mexican music, listen to arabs priasing allah and talking crap about america, then if they want to ask God for help on a football game let them. This country was founded by people who believed completely in God. Now we are supposed to abandon it all because you bawlbabies just don't have enough to cry about. Here's a thought, shut your mouth and look the other way. I commend these young students for doing something that us adults should be doing!!! Standing up for what we believe in and not letting others tell us what to believe. You don't like it, you don't need to stay in the USA.

btw stull, no sweat if the cheerleader does it in a personal way. to do it in a fashion that suggests that the religious banner is also a school supported banner is the problem.

stand in the bleachers with your sign and have at it. on the field, it's representing the school.

The religious fakes support this crap because they do not agree with the constitution. They would never let another religion bring the banners out. These fakes dislike any thing that isn't in their belief. You know, everyone is wrong and going to hell, but me types. They cry about the Constitution but refuse to read and understand it. They abuse the word to their own ends and are sickening.

Why is it that the people that make the most noise about 'God' are some of the Duhh-mest people on the planet?

lemme guess...."Jesus loves me this I know cause the bible tells me so"

Brilliant!!!

U betcha! boinggggggg

I'm not a Religious person, and have NO problems with people of ALL faiths making religious Banners or anything associated to voice their religious believes, but just remember this IF IT"S GOOD FOR ONE IT"S GOOD FOR ALL PERIOD! Don't cry and whine when a religion does what these kids are doing NO MATTER WHAT RELIGION!

maridanne

btw stull, no sweat if the cheerleader does it in a personal way. to do it in a fashion that suggests that the religious banner is also a school supported banner is the problem.

stand in the bleachers with your sign and have at it. on the field, it's representing the school.

The difference between me and others is that I am not so thinned skinned that the word god offends me. It's their gig not mine....to each his own. I am 48 years old and a woman if that makes a difference, when I went to school we said the pledge the kids that did not believe did not stand...no harm.

I actually went to church one time with my Catholic friend. I sat the whole time, I did not kneel and pray when they did I sat respectfully and quietly and observed. My cousin is married to a Jehovah Witness out of curiosity I have asked a lot of question so I can better understand. I have a Wicken friend, again I ask questions to better understand and not judge. To each his own, it's their gig not mine.

My dad read the bible before he passed away...why...I don't know, but it brought him some kind of peace in his time of pain and I respect him for that.

We are all different, all cut from a different cloth, so what if the cheerleaders used the word god or prayer on a sign. There all different kinds of gods and there are many types of prayers. Don't be so thinned skinned.

Before judging why not look at the flip side of the coin!

Nothing brings the haters out more on this thread than religion. I think it even beats politics.

They should be able to put on their banners whatever they want. If as a group they want to put the message, than they should be allowed to do it and not be forced by law to take it down. God has been legislated out of everything, and you don't have to look too far to see what a stellar move that has been. That is my own personal belief and I don't need anyone calling me names over it and telling me I'm an idiot. I don't jump on anyone who posts anything anti-Christian, so please do me the same.

But here is what I do believe. The term "hail Mary" is thrown around by high school and college and even professional sports. If people can't say God, make a banner with the word God or even pray or recite the pledge using the word God, than the announcers, players and coaches need to stop using this dis-respectful phrase. What's good for one is good for the other. I get so tired of people being anti God, but using God d__— and saying "mother of God". It does not make your opinion better, it doesn't demand people respect you and it isn't needed. It is over used and actually makes someone look like they are trying just a little too hard to fit in. Come up with something else.

What is the point of making banners which quote G*d since those same quotes would also apply to the other team? It is short-sighted and ignorant.
I guess if your school isn't very creative and you can't produce quality banners for ball games......you have no other option but to quote The Bible.

On the other hand.....it IS Texas and they worship football inside churches on Sunday morning so only fair they give equal time and worship G*d inside sport stadiums on Friday nights.

Texas....it's like a whole other country.

And you do not lose your constitutional rights at the doorstep of school property. The 1st amendment argues what government can and cannot do, not what the individual can do.

Except, of course, these are not girls operating as individuals. They're operating as part of the cheer leading squad, an organization sponsored by the school. There's a big difference.

I just feel sorry for these delusional kids.

But otherwise, the cheerleading squad is a school sponsored organization. They wear school / team uniforms. They represent the school. Therefore, with those signs they are representing the school as a christian school. As an atheist, I would not like it one bit. Christianity has a history of treating non-believers poorly. If I was a student at that school, I would question my place there. (and I say all of that as a person who went to a private christian high school, a school that would never have promoted religion in this way and that made sure people of all faiths felt at home).

nothing but christian bashing going on and you think your better?

lets take a class of reading comprehension of the US constitutions article the third,

Article the third [Amendment I]Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;or abridging the freedom of speech,or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

the first part is CONGRESS!!!! is the schools congress? do the schools make our laws? NO!!!!!!! so there is no violation in having cheerleaders promote their religion as congress has mad no law. the second part is that you have a right of religion, not a right from religion. see the difference? i can talk till the cows come home about my religious beliefs and there is not a damn thing you can do about it but ignore me or commit a crime, your choice.

Hartvig Lein

blubal42-

Before you go calling people ignorant of the U.S. Constitution and the Bill of Rights- both of which I have copies of up on my wall not 10 feet from where I am sitting- I would suggest you do a little study on the subject yourself.

i would suggest looking at quotes from some of the other founders and not just cherry pick what suits your beliefs.

That wise Men have in all Ages thought Government necessary for the Good of Mankind; and, that wise Governments have always thought Religion necessary for the well ordering and well-being of Society, and accordingly have been ever careful to encourage and protect the Ministers of it, paying them the highest publick Honours, that their Doctrines might thereby meet with the greater Respect among the common People. -Benjamin Franklin

The individual who refuses to defend his rights when called by his Government, deserves to be a slave, and must be punished as an enemy of his country and friend to her foe. -Andrew Jackson

Domestic slavery is repugnant to the principles of Christianity… It is rebellion against the authority of a common Father. It is a practical denial of the extent and efficacy of the death of a common Savior. It is an usurpation of the prerogative of the great Sovereign of the universe who has solemnly claimed an exclusive property in the souls of men. -Benjamin Rush

[T]he only foundation for a useful education in a republic is to be laid in religion. Without this there can be no virtue, and without virtue there can be no liberty, and liberty is the object and life of all republican governments. -Benjamin Rush

The known propensity of a democracy is to licentiousness which the ambitious call, and ignorant believe to be liberty. -Fisher Ames

If freedom of speech is taken away, then dumb and silent we may be led, like sheep to the slaughter. -George Washington

The civil rights of none shall be abridged on account of religious belief or worship, nor shall any national religion be established, nor shall the full and equal rights of conscience, be in any manner, nor on any PRETEXT, infringed. -James Madison

It already appears, that there must be in every society of men superiors and inferiors, because God has laid in the constitution and course of nature the foundations of the distinction. -John Adams

Remember democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts, and murders itself. There never was a democracy yet that did not commit suicide. -John Adams

I have long been of opinion that the evidence of the truth of Christianity requires only to be carefully examined to produce conviction in candid minds. -John Jay

Providence has given to our people the choice of their rulers, and it is the duty, as well as the privilege and interest of our Christian nation to select and prefer Christians for their rulers. -John Jay

The constitution of the United States is to receive a reasonable interpretation of its language, and its powers, keeping in view the objects and purposes, for which those powers were conferred. By a reasonable interpretation, we mean, that in case the words are susceptible of two different senses, the one strict, the other more enlarged, that should be adopted, which is most consonant with the apparent objects and intent of the Constitution. -Joseph Story

In my view, the Christian religion is the most important and one of the first things in which all children, under a free government ought to be instructed…No truth is more evident to my mind than that the Christian religion must be the basis of any government intended to secure the rights and privileges of a free people. -Noah Webster

The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people, it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government – lest it come to dominate our lives and interests. -Patrick henry

How strangely will the Tools of a Tyrant pervert the plain Meaning of Words! -Samuel Adams

The right to freedom being the gift of God Almighty, it is not in the power of man to alienate this gift and voluntarily become a slave… These may be best understood by reading and carefully studying the institutes of the great Law Giver and Head of the Christian Church, which are to be found clearly written and promulgated in the New Testament. -Samuel Adams

Our tenet ever was…that Congress had not unlimited powers to provide for the general welfare, but were restrained to those specifically enumerated, and that, as it was never meant that they should provide for that welfare but by the exercise of the enumerated powers, so it could not have been meant they should raise money for purposes which the enumeration did not place under their action; consequently, that the specification of powers is a limitation of the purposes for which they may raise money. -Thomas Jefferson

If people let the government decide what foods they eat and what medicines they take, their bodies will soon be in as sorry a state as are the souls of those who live under tyranny. -Thomas Jefferson

these are just a few words of wisdom by our founders that apply more so today then ever before. they knew the signs of failure and tried everything they could to create a republic that would correct those failures through people that actually cared for liberty and god. history does indeed repeat itself only because humans are so predictable and easily lead into oppression by the few people who wield false power.

the more we deny the more we divide.

First, I am not a religious individual!

Second, the constitution does not state that the government, at any level, must have NOTHING to do with any religion! It basically states that the government will not sanction an official, government, religion like England does with the Church of England. This is the way that religion-haters try to eliminate ANY contact with ANY religion! It was separation of church and state, not seperation of church FROM state. This situation, in no way, creates a government sanctioned religion. But I do find it amazing that these same liberals will bend over backwards to mollify "orders" from the Muslim faith. For example, schools in certain midwestern states were forced to remove "jello" from ALL school menus because some makers used ground pork bones as a binder agent. Wouldn't have just been easier to tell your son Ahmed to not order the jello? But the libs insisted on throwing out the "baby with the bathwater" in order to molify the Muslim religion.

I feel that ALL religions should be treated on an equal footing, but, the liberals hate Christians, (and by reading a lot of posts on MSN stories) the Jewish faith. It seems that many just hate so easily that they believe that if they feel that way it must be the (pardon the pun) "gospel truth"!

the liberals hate Christians

Another comedian who doesn't know it. Thanks for the laugh.

Swagganaut @ 2.71

"i would suggest looking at quotes from some of the other founders and not just cherry pick what suits your beliefs."

referring to my post @ 2.52 where I demonstrate that it was the CLEAR INTENT of the writers of the U.S. Constitution was to keep religion out of government and government out of religion.

And the point of your comment is... what?

That some of the framers of our Constitution were religious?

Then you must have missed the part where I said that the principal author of that document, James Madison, was one of the more DEVOUTLY RELIGIOUS members of Congress.

That liberty and religion were important to many of our founders?

Please show me where I said anything to the contrary.

In fact, the very idea of true religious liberty depends entirely on the principle of keeping government OUT of religion.

Of all the quotes you listed only two apply to the subject under discussion beyond the level of the general importance of liberty and religion.

The first was by Benjamin Rush regarding the importance of religion as applied to education. At the time that he made that statement most schools in the nation were either established by churches or were private grammar schools. In almost all cases you had to pay to attend. The concept of government providing free access to basic education was pretty much only at the discussion stage. What he is saying would be no different than if someone were to say today that they felt you could get a better education at a religious-affiliated private school than you could at a non-religiously-affiliated private school or at a public school. He does not address the issue of government sanctioning religious education in any way.

The second was the ONLY person who in any way advocated the co-mingling of government with religion and education and that was Noah Webster. And while Noah Webster may have been a brilliant lexicographer if you read a little of his personal history you will also find that he was little short of a lunatic as well.

Again, allow me to restate the belief of the man who wrote the Constitution:

if you mix religion and governance you lose your freedom of BOTH.

the first part is CONGRESS!!!! is the schools congress? do the schools make our laws? NO!!!!!!! so there is no violation in having cheerleaders promote their religion as congress has mad no law. the second part is that you have a right of religion, not a right from religion. see the difference?

1) If the restriction applied only to Congress, it wouldn't mean much since the Executive branch would then be free to impose religion using its powers. But, you forget that states and their political subdivisions must obey the Bill of Rights, too.

2) The "right of religion" wouldn't mean much if the government could pick and choose which religion that it wants to promote, as is happening in this situation. It is clearly promoting Christianity.

Richod and others who lack understanding of the rights of the public school system should know that students do leave some of their constitutional right at the school door. It has been upheld, time after time by the , wait for it: Constitution!

The First Amendment (which many whining bible-thumpers seem to be using to try and justify what these girls are trying to do) does not allow any state/federal institution to support or endorse one religion (or lack thereof) over another, nor does it allow religion to be pushed into the government or law. Religious displays or activities at a public school (even by those who represent the school i.e. the moment those girls put on their cheerleading uniforms), an institution supported by taxpayer funds, can be construed as government support or endorsement of religion, which is unconstitutional.

The key here is that the girls are WEARING THEIR UNIFORMS while promoting their religion. IT IS THE WEARING OF THE UNIFORMS WHICH WILL DETERMINE WHETHER OR NOT THE GIRLS WILL WIN THIS CASE!! If they don't wear their uniforms and simply stay in the stands with their religious signs, then that would be fine and they could win the case. If they do wear their uniforms and go around carrying their religious sign, doesn't matter where they are so long as they are in uniform, then that is absolutely illegal and they will lose the case.

Sure. Free speech doesnt insolate you from other people's free speech response. If there is none, that's fine.

Why do you assume there would be backlash? The Christians should be able to bring their signs, just as the Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, etc. should be able to bring their signs. Your comment shows a disgusting level of ignorance and intolerance.

It's thoughtful that is ignorant. People like thoughtful were whining about a mosque in NYC. Texas cretins wouldn't tolerate a sign promoting Islam. The fact that thoughful thinks otherwise poitns to his/her low level of intelligence.

Thoughful, in Louisana when they passed a law allowing religious schools to get taxpayer money the supporters were horrified to learn that muslim schools were allowed the same access as christian schools. In 2009 Congress opened with a Buddhist prayer and several dozen christians protested and disrupted the event. Those are just two examples. Time and time again it's been shown that giving other religions the same rights as christianity, there will be many christians who show the same disgusting level of ignorance, arrogance, and intolerance you just did.

thoughtful,

Because it's Texas. What people should be able to do and what they are actually able to do, aren't always quite in sync, especially in the South. Are you really that naive?

Hmm.. i suppose it would matter more if the opposing Religious Banners were from the opposing Team...

THAT is when things tend to get Nasty at a football game. i remember (about a hundred years ago) when our High School had a pretty serious rivalry going on with two other schools.... Vandalism, and Violence were not uncommon... too bad folks take a Game so seriously, but they Do.

just as Folks take Religion very seriously... "Taintted" just gave his opinion, that there would be backlash. and the level of emotion in the responses, makes a case for "Backlash" in my Humble opinion.

ignorance and intolerance is a two way street,.. or so it would seem.

Have A Better Day...

I'll probably take flak for this but here it is ... I think indoctrinating young children with religious beliefs is a form of child abuse. A young child doesn't have the cognitive ability to examine both sides of the issue and reach an informed decision.

Before you rant about how children are taught about evolution just know this ... there is actual physical evidence of evolution. There is no physical evidence of god.

Ed,

Science also does not terrorize children with the promise of unspeakable eternal torture if the child fails to grasp, believe or 'fit the mold'.

Well, maybe they can just put up a cross and burn it, too.

After all, this is the South, right ?

Fuel -

Religion is a faith, because there is no way to explain where God came from. Science is also a faith, because there is no way to prove where those chemicals came from. The chicken or the egg? They're the same - Religion and Science are both faiths.

The cheerleaders represent the team, who represent the school. Take a vote from the parents and the students. Majority rules. Isn't this how laws are passed and politicians are elected (sort of)?

FYI, girls and winning motivate the players! Get a grip.

Cats eye, you've handed us the argument. You can't prove where the chemicals came from, but you can prove 100% without a doubt that they exist. That doesn't hold true for your invisible three-in-one sky wizard.

Ransom - Yes the shemicals do exist, which brings us the problem: where did they come from? Until you answer that, you simply amuse me.

Cats eye, until you can prove that God, like the chemicals, exist, you are simply a small-minded sheep who will go along with the rest of the medieval crowd insisting that god exists because the bible says so. That doesn't amuse me, it makes me very sad for the future of our planet.

And what if the signs carried onto the field at Kountze High School, included messages such as "I can do all things through Christ which gives me an unfair advantage" and "But thanks be to God who gives us magic through our Lord Jesus Christ to win"

What would happen if a player refused to run through the banner because as a non Christian it made him uncomfortable. My guess is that he would be dropped from the team because running through the banner is a team ritual but putting messages on the banner that made him uncomfortable is perfectly all right.

I wonder how many Christians believe in the death penalty, war, and the vast accumulation of personal wealth while others in the world do without basic needs?

Thoughful, in Louisana when they passed a law allowing religious schools to get taxpayer money the supporters were horrified to learn that muslim schools were allowed the same access as christian schools.

I'm always surprised at the short-sightedness of those who try to entangle religion and state. It never, ever seems to occur to them that at some point in the future, their religion may no longer be the dominant one in this country and the laws that they institute might be used against them. But, I guess that's the definition of a conservative, living in the past and trying to stop the future from arriving -- and then being amazed when it does.

Religion is a faith, because there is no way to explain where God came from. Science is also a faith, because there is no way to prove where those chemicals came from.

I assume that you mean elements rather than chemicals since we can deconstruct chemicals to their base constituents (and, we create chemicals all the time). But, we do know with a rather high degree of certainly how the elements are formed ... in the life and death of stars. I think that we're still waiting for a similar (or ANY) degree of proof regarding the existence of god, let alone Her origin.

Jonedep, the difference between the charity of Christians is that they don't force others to "donate" their money like the government! The most I hear from most churches is that it would be nice to "tithe" about 10% of their income... If only the government would take this little! Secondly, the victims that the multitudes of Christian charities have helped are more than willing to work if possible. There are so many "victims" in this country who just refuse to work, they feel entitled to our forced Government "tithing" (The tax code)!

God motivates boys to try to hurt each other? I'm guessing not.

Apparently you don't understand the Constitution, laws or tolerance - "sweety". "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof" ... what is it about free exercise that you don't get?

I believe the word is "sweetie", not "sweety". No matter, either one in condescending -- like you're the last word on the subject. Tell us mere mortals how it feels to be all knowing!!

"It was upsetting because it's what motivated the boys each week,"

Oh, BS. What motivates the boys each week is A) kicking the brown-stuff out of the opposing team; and B) putting it to one of the "christian" cheerleaders right after they kick the brown-stuff out of the opposing team.

AC, before you "listen sweety" anyone else, you should probably read those laws you think you are talking about. The Constitution gives Christians the right to speak about Christianity in public. Just as it gives atheists the right to say there is no god in public. Just as it gives Jews the right to speak about their God in public. Just as it gives Muslims the right to speak about their God in public. There is absoulely no law that says you cannot speak about religion in a public place.

Sorry, thoughful. Your ignorance is astounding. They CANNOT speak about their religion, in this fashion, at public school function. Learn the law before opening your big yapper, darlin'.

So are you saying that because non-religious people are offended and do not want the signs up, they should take them down to appease that group? So, if a small group of people were to be offended and uncomfortable seeing same-sex couples walking down a public street kissing and hugging, should the problem be removed from the public eye because they are offending someone in public? I think not. I think people need to get over their insecurities and worry about changing themselves instead of someones beliefs. Maybe you don't believe in anything but millions of people all over the world do believe and you can never change that no matter how many signs you demand to be taken down. You can tear down all the churches in the world but worshipers will still pray to their God...

"truth" speaker, what part of "non-establishement of religion" don't you get?

"Serious" who is talking about tearing down churches? What is it with christians and their persecution complex?

Schools are supposed to be secular. By using religion, you are basically saying that God likes your school more or you have to believe in God or you will loose. I am fine with it if it's a private religious school, but not OK with my tax dollars and I am from Texas. it's really a rather superficial and naive way to ask for God's help if you ask me. You need God to give you support in times of distress not to help you win some football. Poor kid who might be a Muslim or non-believer who has to go to this school. Quoting Christian bible verses in to be done at home and at church.

No the Constitution protects the student's free speech that is why the judge is upholding their right to post the signs until the trial..SWEETIE. I believe student's free speech will be upheld that is the way all of the decisions have been so far. To say otherwise is incorrect.

So are you saying that because non-religious people are offended and do not want the signs up, they should take them down to appease that group?

No, it's because it's a school event that some students are mandated to attend; the players, the marching band, and, yes, the cheerleaders. Under these circumstances, the Supreme Court has ruled that allowing overtly religious messages to be displayed at ostensibly mandatory school events is tantamount to the State endorsing those messages under the First Amendment and the principle of separation of church and state. It's tricky here because it doesn't look like a classroom or mandatory assembly, but for the small population of the students listed above, it is just that. You may not like it, but it's got nothing to do with atheists or people of other religions in attendance feelings being hurt, though theses folks are likely to be the persons (kids or adults) who have to say something in order to make sure the laws are observed. It's shameful that they are often made out to be scape goats for this and the object of peoples anger for being asked first and then forced to observe one of our counties founding principles.

Just as a sidebar: Currently in the NFL there are a little over 3,370 current and former NFL players who are suing the NFL and the individual teams in both federal (the NFL is federally-chartered) and state courts. They alledge (with a huge amount of documentation) that head and other injuries were misrepresented to them, that they were cleared to play when injured, that known lasting effects of injuries were withheld from them, and a number of other charges that essentially say that the NFL knowingly allowed and caused players to come to permanent harm for purposes of profit. Most legal analysts say that, given the mountain of evidence, that they will almost certainly win. The settlements could be in the billions and could cripple or kill professional football as we know it.

But what is not being discussed, even in places like Tuscaloosa, Alabama, is that the same practices were also the same. Players were allowed or coerced to play with injuries that would haunt the p0layers for the rest of their lives. As soon as the NFL suits are completes, the players and their lawyers will go after the colleges and the high schools and probably right down to Pop Warner for practices that treated kids like worthless disposable gladiators. Ten years from now football at any level could be unrecognizable as related to today's game.

I love football. But honestly, I don't think it is worth killing kids over. And before high schools and colleges and professional leagues took up the sport, they knew the results. They knew all about head and other crippling injuries. And they took 100% of the financial responsibility.

Maybe the fundamentalist neo-christians can blame it on their god and get him to cough up a settlement.

@acethestace,

You are absolutely wrong. The stay until October 4th does not uphold the students' free speech in the matter. It is because "prior restraint" is a fundamental of the law. "Prior restraint (also referred to as prior censorship or pre-publication censorship) is censorship imposed, usually by a government, on expression before the expression actually takes place. An alternative is to allow the expression to take place and to take appropriate action afterward, if the expression is found to violate the law, regulations, or other rules."

By waiting until the hearing the issue of prior restraint is removed.

Interesting, how looks like a grey area for many of you the First Amendment (which Dr. Tachyon is truly insightful), you can say almost anything about anything and/or anybody (I mean as long as you're not libel sued) in the (a) public space, NOT in the public school, unless of course is a Madrasa, Catholic school, Yeshiva, etc. then in that case, go ahead with your own set of rules, privelegies and special believes that make you so special from the rest of the world (religion thinking, not mine, usually is 'us' against the 'others', where the others are the rest of non-believers).

Now, let's see, it was a public function in School property, done by the Cheerledears team from and as represetantion of the school (in this case doesn't matter whose or whom bought the uniforms, they show the school name in an organize group), isn't it?, this wasn't a PRIVATE function for a specific audience.

In other way, when do you want your children to start to recite the 10 commandments before starting class everyday?, or the Rosary?, or other liturgies?..just a simple cuestion.

Pedestrian,

I think you got that a bit backwards--First motive is drilling the 'Christian' cheerleaders(and any other flavor of hotty)--all of them! They will even claim to believe in invisible magic man if that blows her skirt up. Everything else follows from there.

Be Serious - don't you think you are going a bit over the top ? why is it that when you can no longer make a Reasonable case for your argument, you break out with the snide, condescending comments.. like ""Maybe you don't believe in anything"" ? like it makes you better than the rest of us... it doesn't. and then proceed to tell us, just how many of you do believe. as if somehow it makes what YOU believe, somehow more credible,..it Does Not. OH, and for the BIG FINALE, you show your real colors when you play the role of the Persecuted .......""You can tear down all the churches in the world but worshipers will still pray to their God"" Excuse Me, who the heck Tore Down Your Church ? this was about some cheerleaders wanting to put Religious Messages on their Banners... NOTHING MORE. and i think its inappropriate, but that's just my opinion... end of story. And if you would like to know WHY many of us may believe in God, but have had it up to our necks with organized Religion? well, this may surprise you but it is the over-Bloated Statements made by folks like yourself, twisting and turning the truth until you have Exhausted us. i went to church as a kid, and there was always a few of you in the crowd... i am cool with God. but i am sick to death of folks like yourself, who do not care that there are other Faiths, as well as Non Believers who are EVERY BIT AS VALID AS YOU... and we send our kids to the same schools. So Don't you dare get on your high horse, like anyone has Tore Down your Church. they haven't, and I'm pretty sure the rest of us are not trying to.

Have A Good Day.

For those of you arguing that this is "freedom of expression" and not "establishment", please allow me to point you to a few relevant supreme court cases ...

Ablington School District v. Schempp

Even more pertinent is Santa Fe Independent School District v. Jane Doe. That one, in 2000, ruled that student led prayer before football games was unconstitutional. Interestingly, the district is in Galveston, TEXAS.

Using that case as a precedent, I believe the superintendent was correct and, if the judge does NOT uphold it, he will most likely be overturned.

Well isn't the little cheer leader precious,

She probably actually believes that the boys running through a piece of paper with Christian sayings is what motivates the football team.

Of course, this is Texas, and some of the people down there also actually believe humans existed at the same time as the dinosaurs; there is no global warming; the earth is 6,000 years old and the federal government needs to keep its hands off of medicare and foods stamps.

Walkingeagle:

You just scored a goal. Right on!

It's a great day when people have more of a problem with cheerleaders displaying Christian posters at a sporting event than with the game's organizers playing a rap song before the game that disgustingly objectifies women.

Yeah, the banners motivated them. Just like Christ motivated the football players at the esteemed DC Catholic football powerhouse DeMatha to hire prostitutes at 5 am while on a football trip in North Carolina. Parents, your ignorance about your own children is the cause for many of society's ills.

The football team and cheerleaders represent the School District. Their equipment, field, coaching, transportation, etc is provided by taxpayers funds.

So are their constitutional rights.

The issue I see with this is that the cheerleaders are acting as representatives of the school when they wear their Cheer-leading Uniforms. Regardless of the funding of the materials used, the message reads as being supported by the school. Our Nation's laws state that Publicly funded schools cannot endorse any religion. Students ARE allowed to hold meetings and discussion groups on campus outside of School Funded events and instructional time. Since Football games are funded by the school, religious messages are not appropriate. Just because not all students go to the game does not negate the communities obligation to uphold our laws. There is a similar case being brought up in Tennessee at UT. Since we are not talking about Secular or Private schools, Religion (whatever the brand) should be left out of the equation entirely. If the students really want to have a focused time on their religion, do so pregame in a more appropriate setting. Allow all fans and school supporters the ability to enjoy the game and the environment without having to be subjected in such a blatant manner by others views.

Most cheerleaders pay for their own uniforms. Just a point in fact.

On another note: What if a student wrote an essay regarding their "religious" beliefs? Do they automatically receive an "F"?

There is a difference here that these kids and their parents are missing. These cheerleaders are representatives of the Kountze school. They have volunteered to be said representatives and as such are representing the entire student body. While giving inspiration to their football players is laudable, the form they are taking as representatives of a PUBLIC SCHOOL makes the use of biblical references in this forum, illegal. It discriminates against those who believe differently than they do, and putting forward their religious beliefs as the beliefs of the entire school.

If these kids want to do such at a PAROCHIAL SCHOOL, then they could without issue. They cannot and should not in a PUBLIC SCHOOL setting as the PUBLIC SCHOOL is a government institution paid for by all taxpayers.

Oh boy do we pay for those.

Children in public school have consistently been held to have less rights under the 1st Amendment than adults. This is no different. Anyone that asserts otherwise is wrong.

The fact that's it's not a classroom is irrelevant. The game is mandatory for a portion of the student body, including the players, marching band, and the cheerleaders themselves.

ah yes. If its good, its attributed to God. If its bad, then its "God works in mysterious ways." After 2000+ yrs of spin like that, I could be considered a god.

If it is up to God if the team wins/looses, then why the signs and why the afterschool practices?

I'm sure God has better things to do than to oversee a high school football game.

I'm sure God has better things to do than to oversee a high school football game.

He sure wasn't anywhere near the Penn State locker rooms for the last 20 years!

If a team loses, does that mean that it is less worthy and perhaps even sinful? Perhaps we should punish losing teams automatically since the fact that they lost means that they displeased God in some manner and She clearly isn't happy with them.

Similar logic worked in the middle ages with "trial by ordeal", and with the GOP intent on taking women back a few centuries, this seems like an opportune time to reintroduce it.

Coming from you, and that picture you have as your avatar, that is an interesting question, or as you typed statement. Given today's political climate I am sure man would find numerous other reasons to do as they please and kill for any given number of reasons.

eh, we'd find something else to kill each other over

If we didnt have religion, meglamaniacs would just have to create it again.

You don't know anything about the subject of God, Jesus Christ, or the Bible.

All you want to do is grab an opportunity to declare what a God hating rebel you are.

Pure genius to passionately pursue the wrath of God Almighty in store for all His enemies.

considering that religion has lead the world in the many bloody wars, all in the name of Christ, that does sound like a great thing. All religion has done is spread lies and caused much bloodshed. God is going to judge all religions that have caused the death of innocent blood as wicked and worthy of destruction.

Flatlanders,, sigh, so sad such ignorance in 2012. nice post Captain Hammers

A strong believer can resist such temptations. The weak ones have to run away and hide from it.

It's really not my belief in religious freedoms, it's God's belief. And a HUGE misconception...it's not about religion, it's about a relationship with the Holy Father.

No bob they take every Christian as one of these crazy people they see on tv, that we all behave in such ways. Anyone who believes in religion is an idiot for believing in " fairy tails " even though it's a free world and we all have the right to believe what we want. They see us as crazy nutty people who want to throw the good book at anyone who doesn't abide by it.

I'd say they are just as Nutty 100% in their own amazing way.

why do you think they are only picking on the christians and assuming that they would not react in the same manner if it were a buddhist or muslim banner? this is what i *really* don't get about christians, it's the self-involved statements where it's always about them, either someone is repressing them or attacking them instead of actually listening and seeing it's not *them* it's religion in general. Doesn't matter who you worship or what faith you practice...

i would donate money to see people have islamic signs of strength and courage held up next to them, because if it is really about "religious" freedom then that should totally be kosher with the protesting cheerleaders. (i can't believe i just typed that phrase)

"Nut" refers to one who views everything through a narrow window of interpretation, attributing everything about the world to a single, simplistic concept without considering other explanations. See also Cimate Change Nuts.

u are religious nuts because you want to make this a CHRISTIAN nation and it is not and will never be a CHRISTIAN NATION...it was not founded on Christianity and the bible u know that book that u pick and choose from to judge others has NO place in our government...if u want a christian nation then go start one yourself....u are free to think whatever u want as it affects no one BUT please stop trying to make this country into something it isn't.....

I hate to break it to you queenie, but it is a nation founded on a principal of religious freedom. People left Europe because they didn't want to have to belong to a religion controlled by the government. You should watch the show the Tudors since it does a good job of showing how the King created his own religion.

Calling people nuts shows so much about the person you are, it is really telling. It shows how much of an intolerant person you are.

so what I said is true about u nutters....whew I'm glad u cleared that up!!!

and I never said our nation wasn't founded on a principle of religious freedom....I said it was NOT founded on Christianity!!

I like the extra religions. We get a few more minor holidays and parades. ;)

DaveMMM you realize that religious freedom is fundamentally anti-christian.

as do I peanutGalleryTheater.....the more Gods/religions the better I say!!!

Why does a christian need to advertise that they are a christian? Their God should already know.

You should watch the show the Tudors since it does a good job of showing how the King created his own religion.

Henry VIII didn't create a new religion, he just made himself head of "the Church in England." During his lifetime and beyond, there was constant tension between those who wanted to make the Church of England more protestant and those who wanted it to retain its Catholic trappings and theology. A perfect example of that was shown in The Tudors when Henry's last wife, Catherine Parr, was in danger of arrest because of her protestant viewpoints.

Thank God I'm an atheist.

yea, more power to 'em. I'm really not threatened by a banner... or cartoon or movie.

@ Bob in KC-545426 --

A Muslim might allow it as long as his daughter is fully clothed to the ankle.

A Jew might allow it as long as his daughter gets paid for it by the school system.

A Buddhist might allow it as long as his daughter gets paid for it by the male cheerleaders.

GOD Love Ya Bob!!! I would be proud to say I was from there!!

"...fighting the good fight against extremists by preparing and carrying banners that show what is important to them..."

Extremists are usually the ones carrying banners. How is ignoring the hypocrasy and cognitive dissonance of praying for God to make your team beat the other one preparing these kids for anything other than being mindless sheep?

No Bob, I beleive you are wrong. Kids do not delineate between religions. Most of them could care less about what their peers believe in. It's not until bigots like you warp their minds into thinking that those who don't think like you are bad. How can you say a Muslim poster would be prohibited? The only reason it might be is the same reason the Christian poster would be prohibited. Because the athiest would whine about it. I am a Christian and I do not hate athiests, Buddists, Muslims Mormons, etc. I believe we all make our own choices and we pay the consequences for the ones that may be wrong in the after life. You should be able to advertise whatever you believe in without offending anyone. That is sensorship. My take is you would be the one that hollers the loudest about a Muslim poster being displayed at a football game. And for your information, God does care about football games and the kids on the field and folks in the stands and He doesn't care what you believe in. He will have the final say and He is just.

Archie,

You are right, God is Just. We should model our legal system on God's standards of justice--Mass murderers would not only be forgiven but endlessly rewarded as long as they gave lip service to the legitimacy of the system and all it represents. Humanitarians would be tortured endlessly if they failed to bow to the Judge. Everyone could enslave anyone else as long as beating their slave to death takes more than two days....Glorious!

You apparently know nothing about Buddhism then.

I will rise again. See you in the morning. ;)

Rev. Bob - Thank you. Finally a church that states up front what matters. Not salvation, not eternal life, not prayer and healing, but MONEY.

... will help you with all of your problems - if you send the money.

Nice theology, but the Scientologists already beat you to it.

I'm Christian and a Muslim message would not bother me. So, I for one, from Texas, would not "Freak".

Depends on how popular the muslim student was. These are cheerleaders afterall.

How is it respectful of everyone's values if you aren't respecting the girls values?

What do silly ancient fairytales have to do with football?

Weak religions are easily offended.

it's not about being offended....it's about following that thing called THE CONSTITUTION....u have heard of it haven't you??

People get so whiny about the Constitution and the separation of church and state and stuff.

Yes Queenie, I have heard of it. You just made my point. Separation of church and state means that the government can't interfer with or tax religions. It doesn't mean that they can step in and take religion out of everything. Therefore, people just need to chill out and stop being so freaking whiny about some girls who want to paint a sign with something religious on it.

roadrunner0424

Yes Queenie, I have heard of it. You just made my point. Separation of church and state means that the government can't interfer with or tax religions. It doesn't mean that they can step in and take religion out of everything. Therefore, people just need to chill out and stop being so freaking whiny about some girls who want to paint a sign with something religious on it.

wrong....yes it does if it's a PUBLIC SCHOOL that is funded by tax dollars....SMFH!!!

you said it, tax dollars from many religions. It is the taxpayers money, not the governments. You don't think Christians paid in to that school??

At least the govt isnt collecting a church tax like they do in germany. Yep. They specifically collect taxes and give it to the established TWO churches.

plsthink90

you said it, tax dollars from many religions. It is the taxpayers money, not the governments. You don't think Christians paid in to that school??

Hmmmm......correct me if I'm wrong here but I don't believe that tax dollars actually know anything about religion........it is just money after all....now I suppose if u chose to worship that money than we could have a whole other ballgame!!!

who pays tax dollars?? Let me spell this out for you. We do!! If my daughter wants to wave a banner around about God, then she can, it is my money spent at those schools.

Peanut Gallery, actually those who are ignorant to what they don't understand are weak and only find strength in degrading others....

Our leaders enforce only the laws they believe in. What are we teaching our kids? Do as I say, not as I do. It would be construed as racist if I brought up a certain law that is not being enforced and it would offend one illegal ethnicity of our population and it is one that has the biggest monetary impact on our economy so I better not bring it up.

plsthink90,

what about the people whose money is used that do not want said banners to be waved around? Are their opinions less applicable than yours? Not everyone is a Christian. Things paid for by tax payer money must be a-everything when it comes to political/religious statements. No public school can be for or against anything that the tax payer that gave them money may be for or against.

For example no school can publicly support any political candidate, no school n or its representatives can publicly support any religion.

The Supreme Court already ruled on this case and said that the school has a right to tell it's representatives what they can or cannot say or do during events which represent the school. At these football games and other sporting events cheerleaders and the teams represent their schools and therefor the school can tell them what they can or cannot say.

They will lose this case, or they should unless they get a non-impartial judge.

These cheerleaders are as bad as Tebow is. God does not give a rats ass about a football game if he exists, he has more important things to worry about.

If it's a church football game yup she can. Otherwise, keep it to yourself on property I help pay for.

Separation of church and state means that the government can't interfer with or tax religions.

But, you've also forgotten that the state can't endorse one religion over another, or even endorse religion at all. But, that's exactly what's happening when these cheerleaders are waving their banners around.

Separation of church and state means that the government can't interfer with or tax religions. It doesn't mean that they can step in and take religion out of everything.

Then you're not getting it. Separation means the government cannot sopport or endorse one religion over another or over non-religion, nor can religion be pushed into the government or law. Religious displays or activities at a public school, supported with taxpayer funds, cand be construed as a government support or endorsement of religion, which is unconstitutional!

It is the taxpayers money, not the governments. You don't think Christians paid in to that school??

Immaterial! Taxes cannot be used to support any religion, period, regardless of whom pays the taxes.

If my daughter wants to wave a banner around about God, then she can, it is my money spent at those schools.

What about taxpayers who don't want taxes going towards religious activities? What makes your beliefs or rights more important than someone else's? Sorry, buit you may pay taxes, but you don't really have a say as to how they're utilized by the government! And you certainly don't have the right to expect the government to support any religion over another or over non-religion! If you want your money to be spent on religious mumbo-jumbo, then enroll your daughter in a private religious school!

Strong faith with this one.

Thank you, I'm glad it's that apparent!!

Kris--good post, refreshing to see some still have strong faith as do I.

It's not the message, it IS the forum in which it is espoused. The school is a public school paid for by ALL taxpayers, not just the Christian ones...now if the girls want to put inspirational messages of all faiths on their banners, they just might have a case.

Deep. Bless your heart!

Not a bigot, just recognizing a practicality in the great nation of Texas. If the only churches in town and the only people in town are Christian, why shouldn't they be left alone? The folks that are complaining about this are outsiders, i.e., folks who don't live in that town, don't worship in those churches, don't have children in the schools, don't have any reason whatsoever to be interferring in the life of Kountze, TX. Those folks are the true bigots, that want to change everyone in Kountze into little followers of what they believe, not what the folks in Kountze believe.

I guess thweeting did not read the line on the number of hits the Facebook page has achieved. Don't spew your personal views all over Kountze. Just stay home and ignore them (and the rest of us who believe).

Bob:

This issue affects more than your small town. It affects ALL public school districts.

The true bigots are the ones who want to impose themselves and their faiths onto other people, such as what your little cheerleaders seem to be doing. The fact that you are showing such blatant disrespect for others and their faiths (or lack there of) is proof enough of your bigotry.

They're showing bigotry by giving thanks to God??? And merely making this statement makes them bigots?

Richod:

That's not what I said at all and you know it. By having a banner that represents one religion, but not all, they are showing discrimination against their fellow students. And now that people are up-in-arms about it, they are telling people to A) back off because this doesn't concern people (which it does) who don't live in our little city, B) don't hate on Christianity (no one is, but you are discriminating), C) our freedom of speech is being violated (that has nothing to do with promoting religion while wearing a school uniform).

I call them (the cheerleaders and their parents along with many people commenting on this thread) bigots because they only want to promote their religion while ignoring other faiths or lack there of.

Bob:

I forgot to mention that many religions do not have or need churches. Many set up shrines (or something like that) and worship at home. So simply assuming that a person needs to attend a church for them to have a religion is wrong. You probably have many different religions in your little town.

Why would anyone "promote" a religion other than the one they believe is correct? I'm a Christian, and I only promote Christianity. But while doing that, I do not deny others that believe in any other faith, or no faith at all. Promoting only their faith does not make them bigots. I don't see Islam promoting Christianity. Or atheists promoting Christianity. Does that make those people bigots?

Richod:

Because they must represent EVERYBODY, not just themselves. This is not a private school, where such things could and would be allowed. This is a public school. The fact they represented only Christianity and not every religion is discriminatory against their fellow students who may not believe the same thing they do.

They are "promoting" Christianity by having only that religion referenced by their banner. It isn't just about denying others their faith (or lack there of), it is about leaving them out (which is a big no-no considering that those cheerleaders are supposed to represent the ENTIRE school and student body). That is what makes them bigots.

If you have trouble understanding that, then let me give you an example: The school is hosting a party. Invitations are sent out. Only the white kids got the invitation. The black, hispanic, asian, native american, etc. are left out. Do you think people would be offended and start shouting "racist?" You bet. So, when the school (cheerleaders REPRESENT the school thus they can be considered one and the same) suddenly shows off a banner representing only one religion, do you think everyone who does not believe in that religion and are not represented on the banner would be offended? You bet.

If they included all religions in that banner, then I would retract calling them bigots.

God is a good excuse to do good things. If this school is anything like ours, the squad and team ARE doing charity work like community kitchen, "project" families, etc.

peanutGalleryTheater

God is a good excuse to do good things. If this school is anything like ours, the squad and team ARE doing charity work like community kitchen, "project" families, etc.

so u need an "EXCUSE" to do good things....well my my....I'm an agnostic and I do good things just because it makes me feel good.....

I'm agnostic too. That's why I consider it an excuse and not a commandment. There are many other excuses/reasons to do good.

Doing good for any reason is a good thing. That being said, doing good because it makes you feel good is no better a reason than because you believe that your God wants your to do good. People masterbate because it makes them feel good, does that make it honorable?

Seems like they need a banner to convince their selves. (advertising)

Realist-1226632

Doing good for any reason is a good thing. That being said, doing good because it makes you feel good is no better a reason than because you believe that your God wants your to do good. People masterbate because it makes them feel good, does that make it honorable?

and what's wrong with masturbation.....when did self love hurt anyone....oh wait that's right according to YOU and YOUR book it's a sin...and u all have the nerve to tell others to lighten up.....LMAO!!!

and seriously if u can't see the difference between doing good because YOU want to do good versus doing good out of the fear of going to hell than I'd ask u how living on that river was working out for you:)

The thing that's important is that you do good things. The reason why you do good is irrelevant. My own opinion: the best good deed doer is the one who doesn't need to broadcast what he does, he just silently DOES.

to queenie: You sound like a child: "My good deed doing is better than yours because I do it to make myself feel better." good grief.

I really dont care where the "positive" comes from. There are many good sources.

Just curious Porter ......Why do you consider this a "positive thing" ?????

Why do you think the Europeans came to the US Alverant? Tell me of an instance where a block of people have been persecuted in the US for thier beliefs? So now, segregation was the work of Christians? I think their own families sold them into slavery for profit and I'd be willing to bet they never heard the word "Christian". I understand it is still taking place.

Archie--apparently you missed the reports of the shooting at the Sikh temple a few weeks ago. Or the opposition to the building of mosques. Or Jim Crow laws, for that matter.

s long as it's student-initiated, I think it's fine.

I'm not a Christian myself; but Christian references by cheerleaders or other students are ok. I think it's a positive thing.

A group of policemen decide on their own that they want to participate in a KKK rally dressed in their uniforms? Even though the uniforms imply the endorsement of their department, you must think that their participation in a hate-mongering event is OK because it is self-initiated?

There is nothing wrong in expecting teens to learn that when you're representing someone else, there are limits to your activities.

You forget how it was then. God has nothing to do with it.

God had EVERYTHING to do with it.

Warren, you're an idiot.

American brother - pot meet kettle

You mean when there was racial segration and open prejudice against non-christians?

No way, the world is a MUCH better place now that we've started fighting bac against christian privilige.

Yes ,I have fond memories of those segregated schools back in the fifties, when we all went to school and said prayers, but couldn't live in the same neighborhoods, or eat at the same restaurants. You religious folk always make me laugh!!

You're blaming racism on Christianity?

Seems like we didn't have the problems in society back then as we do now.

You and your family might not have had as many problems, Richod but have you spoken with or thought about the people who were being discriminated against? i doubt they would agree with you.

You believe that Christianity was behind racism? Really???

Richod

You believe that Christianity was behind racism? Really???

The KKK's central ideology is a twisted view of the bible espousing white christian supremacy. The KKK often met in churches. Why do you think they burned crosses?

One could certainly make the argument that a significant amount of racist activity was done under the guise of religion.

@ Ransom - I agree with your last statement, but I insist that is not Christianity. True Christianity is based on Jesus Christ, not on what some followers may do supposedly in His name. That Kansas church is a perfect example of that. They are not following Christ's teaching at all. You have to admit that by it's nature, religion is "open" to all. So many can come in it's name and do things contrary to it's doctrines.

My definition of Christianity is Jesus Christ. And I don't try to force my beliefs on anyone .... but I do retain the right to speak and live it (as best I can, as a sinner myself).

If you truly believe in Jesus Christ, you will remember something he said:

And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward. - Matthew 6:5

If these little high school kids took that to heart, this wouldn't even be a story.

Because the Pharisees were not sincere ... but merely doing it for appearances. Jesus could see directly in their hearts. I have every confidence that these young Texas students are sincere, and just sharing their beliefs. Those who disagree can disregard and look away.

Seems like the left wing used a similar argument when someone complains about immorality. Don't look! If you don't like porn, don't watch. If you don't like the way we swear at this club, don't come. But somehow they don't have the same ability to look away if (gasp) exposed to religion.

Seems like we didn't have the problems in society back then as we do now.

Perhaps that's true if you don't consider racial segregation, repression of gays and second-class treatment of women to be problems. I won't even bother with mentioning the communist witch hunts where one could lose one's entire career based on suspicions or the temerity to speak out against the madness.

Personally, I believe that the world is a better place than it was 50 years ago.

God had EVERYTHING to do with it.

Prove there's a god!

Seems like we didn't have the problems in society back then as we do now.

No, there were worse problems!

I have every confidence that these young Texas students are sincere, and just sharing their beliefs.

Immaterial. They are not allowed to have a public school share their beliefs for them, especially over other beliefs or non-belief.

Those who disagree can disregard and look away.

Why should they? Why should theists have more rights than others who don't share those beliefs? And why should the government validate their religion for them? Would you feel the same if the banner said "Satan" instead of Jesus?

THANK YOU !!!! Chighland, why can't more so-called Christians be as sensible and as intelligent as you ???????

You make me laugh, AMERICAN ATHEISTIC BROTHER. A heretic renounces Jesus Christ and you celebrate him and advocate all Christians do the same.

Of course you do, humanist. And the sun is hot. Have a big dance over that bit of news.

A heretic renounces Jesus Christ and you celebrate him and advocate all Christians do the same.

Herald9, you unintentionally reinforced CHighland's posting. Merely because he advocates tolerance, you label him as a heretic. No where in his posting did he renounce Christ, but you seem to have adopted a mindset that would make the Spanish Inquisition proud.

There is no separation of church and state. The state cant get into religion but there's no rule about the other way around. That's why this banner thing is considered ok if its students (following church values) initiating it.

"separation of church and state" only means that the government cannot impose a religion.

Actually -- by a strict interpretation of the constitution -- it only means that the *Federal* government cannot impose a religion (i.e. by a strict interpretation, Utah could e.g. impose Mormonism as the state religion).

Anyway, as peanutGalleryTheater stated, "separation of church and state" is not relevant here.

Yeah, that's it. Separate them. Put the state in the Atlantic, and the church in the Pacific and return the middle back to the Native Americans who honored their gods.

It is time for the church to start making the calls rather than the state.Allah Akhbar Mr. Lien??? Allah is no where to be seen in the constitution, Declaration of Indpendence or any other founding document, or on anuy monument for that matter.

Lets put hard working kids before our greedy pens.

Porter, 1) the laws of federal government also apply to states

2) the school is impising a religion on the students by endorsing one while ignoring others

Alverant, can you quote the part of the story that I clearly missed that shows where they have forbidden other religions from having their signs up while allowing Christian ones?

If those cheerleaders had a banner representing all religions equally, then they would definitely have a case, but they are not and because they are not representing all religions they are being discriminatory. Cheerleaders are representatives of the school (a state/federal institution). Religion can not be mixed with Government. Period. Anytime religion and government do mix, the results are disastrous.

Jeff, all they have to do is be focused on the game and not bring religion into it.

Greetings uppityhomo1: I see my vote up for your comment was the thirteenth - symbolically significant. The answer to your question, imho, is that they honestly don't understand that they are proselytizing. You ask how could they not know that, and they ask how you can say it is. There is no connection made.

There is no separation of church and state.

Demonstratably false! The Founding Fathers and The SCOTUS agree that there IS a separation of church and state. There is jurisprudence to that effect too!

The state cant get into religion but there's no rule about the other way around.

Wrong! Separation works both ways. Otherwise, it's ineffective.

Anyway, as peanutGalleryTheater stated, "separation of church and state" is not relevant here.

If a public school, recieving tax money, is promoting or displaying religious ideology, then yes, it does become a separation issue. there are numerous SCOTUS cases like this one dealing with just such an issue!

can you quote the part of the story that I clearly missed that shows where they have forbidden other religions from having their signs up while allowing Christian ones?

They can't have any religion from having displays, over other religions or non-religion.

If those cheerleaders had a banner representing all religions equally, then they would definitely have a case

Not really. It would still become an issue of religious favoritism over non-religion, which is still unconstitutional!

Richod that's just plain F'ing stupid !!!!! So you're saying that if I and a bunch of other people held up signs promoting Atheism or (god forbid) Islam - then you would be okay w/that because of "freedom of speech" ...... BULLSH#$%t and you know it. You're only saying this because you yourself are a ridiculous so-called Christian.

What, Church and/or your own personal belief in a bearded guy floating around in the sky is NOT ENOUGH .... you have to express it at a damn H.S. football game ???? REALLY ??????

You seem angry, American. Yes, I'm indeed saying that everyone of all faiths, or of no faith have a right to free speech. Do you believe your rights end at the entrance to the football stadium? These cheerleaders are expressing their faith, which is still legal (and protected) in this country.

wow, American Brother! based on other comments you have made, I wonder why you are so angry.....sounds like Richod's point is striking a nerve! :) Why do you have to be so nasty and hateful?

The reason American Brother is angry is that once again christians are acting like they can ignore the Constitution. Richod, you say all faiths have the right to post banners at a football stadium, but do you really think such a thing would be allowed? Atheist billboards are often vandalized, that's even when they're allowed to be put up in the first place. Anyone who says all faiths have the right to free speech has never been part of a minority faith.

Those cheerleaders are acting on behalf of the school which means they are illegally establishing their religion.

Maybe they ought to display signs saying "our govner is an idiot".

@Alverant - Exactly how are the cheerleaders acting on behalf of the school system? You mention that atheist billboards are often vandalized ... and this is your argument? Again, the constitution speaks ONLY of what the government can and cannot do. It does not limit the free speech rights of individuals (quite the contrary).

EverythingisUpsideDown ..... yes, I AM hateful .... I HATE RELIGION !!!! (check out this irony) ... I hate religion because it creats so much hatred and division.

Richod that's just plain F'ing stupid !!!!! So you're saying that if I and a bunch of other people held up signs promoting Atheism or (god forbid) Islam - then you would be okay w/that because of "freedom of speech" ...... BULLSH#$%t and you know it. You're only saying this because you yourself are a ridiculous so-called Christian.

What, Church and/or your own personal belief in a bearded guy floating around in the sky is NOT ENOUGH .... you have to express it at a damn H.S. football game ???? REALLY ??????

So American Brother your suggesting that Richod, because he is christian, wont be tolerant of other signs promoting other religions (including atheism) even though it is a form of free speech. That is a rush to judgment on someone you dont know anything about other than his religious preference and his nickname on this site. Your spewing the same type of intolerance that you are preaching against which is sad but its ok you are only human and as humans we can be nasty with or without a God to believe in. Have a nice day

@ American Brother - Let's see .... you're hateful, because you believe religion creates hatred? ?????? Wow, I have a hard time wrapping my head around that one.

As a Christian, I try to not judge anyone, but try to love and respect people. Sometimes it can be hard, but that is what Jesus Christ taught. Try accepting Jesus Christ, instead of "those Christians" that have apparently let you down. If you do that, you'll quickly lose the hate ... and find peace. I have.

@Medinaa - thank you for your kind words and wisdom.

cheerleaders need to do what they are supposed todo. Cheer. Leave religous comments to church. We are at a game. Others didn't come here to be preached at

@Bill - so free speech is only applicable when everyone approves of it's message.

Richod

Some don't like it because it reminds them of their sinful state. Easier to deny God than to live for Him.

Some don't like it because they don't believe in this mumbo-jumbo that was designed (and has been enormously successful) to control small-minded people. Why do you think scientists and scholars were persecuted in the decades leading up to the dark ages? Heck, why do you think some of them (especially those who provide data that discounts the existence of a supreme being) are persecuted now?

Maybe people should keep the promotion of their superstitions in the church, WHERE THEY BELONG! I don't want my children indoctrinated into your cult when I send them to school to get an education, and I pay taxes for that reason. I shouldn't have to pay taxes to allow people to brainwash my children. When they express an interest in a church, I encourage them to go to that church and learn.Churches already have huge monoliths built to their gods, built with income on which they pay no taxes. What gives them the right to go to institutions paid for with my taxes, to spread their message there?

@Jeff - They're just speaking their beliefs, and I suspect they pay taxes too. Freedom means having to tolerate others with beliefs different from yourself. I tolerate atheists and agnostics, Islamists, or those of any other faith ... that is America. Are you so insecure in your non-belief system that you cannot stand to hear an opposing viewpoint? I speak my belief, but with respect for others. The Public school system belongs to ALL tax payers, including those of faith. I don't expect it to become a church, nor should it .... but it also needs to respect my (and others) expression of faith - which isn't just shown on Sundays.

Why does it need to respect your expression of faith........? Faith is a personal thing, not something to be taught in schools. When a school allows, or supports (as I suspect they probably did...) this kind of activity, it's using my tax dollars to support a religion (or, as I see it, a superstition). Would you want them spending money in support of the belief in leprechauns? I don't want my tax dollars spent in this manner, the framers of the constitution didn't want any tax dollars spent in this manner, and it's a slippery slope toward religious groups being involved in the running of the schools (you know, like they do in Iran).

Richod

Sorry, you are wrong. If it was a football team of mostly muslims holding up a sign saying Allah supports so'n'so you, and almost every other chrsitian in this country would be freaking out at an EXTREME level. I'd even go as far as to say that is that happened in Texas it would get violent.

So no, it should not be shown because of its truly one sided view. Religions are a mess, they create nothing but hate between each other in spite that they all claim to love.

Again, the constitution speaks ONLY of what the government can and cannot do. It does not limit the free speech rights of individuals (quite the contrary).

But, they're not individuals. They are members of a school-sponsored team that isn't even open to all who would wish to participate. They probably practice on school property, perform as school pep rallies and, as been pointed out here, they have access to the playing field that members of the general public do not. They are representatives of the school and, as such, they can't endorse one religion over another (or over no religion at all).