Yeah, that was my first thought, too, but OTOH you can't carry guns into most universities legally. That makes storage of a firearm by a student difficult.

You have to remember that the shooter was a short guy. Such people are usually cowards with a chip on their shoulder. They run at the first sign or resistance --- even when armed.

Shooting unarmed people is clear proof of cowardice whether it is a person or a government who does it.

One of the few things they know about people who purchase handguns and have concealed carry permits is that they tend to be very short and usually overweight.

Better than nothing v. handgun. If there is DNA evidence this guy raped someone or was close enough to get clawed. Pepper spray may have been enough to save them...

Chris-749391, Strange observation. I see them all shapes , sizes and so on.

Well its simple, unless your an assassin you are not trained to use a hand gun in a profesional manner. It may be a high caliber hand gun, not large caliber. The gun can be large but the caliber is high. Anyway when you spray someone in the eyes with a nerve toxin they usually drop the gun or shoot themselves because of the stinging pain such agents cause. If you have never had pepper spray in your face or eyes then you dont know what it can do and how it can affect you. This will allow you to escape so long as you are not yelling while you from away from the crazy frack trying to kill you.

Bill,

Because her sexuality is a possible motive behind the crime. If a heterosexual was ran over BECAUSE and only BECAUSE he was heterosexual, I'm sure his sexuality would make it into the story as well.

Pepper spray is better than nothing, but a pistol - even a .22 - is far better. A blade can come in handy as well, as a backup at least. Be armed or live and die in fear.

Max

Be armed or live and die in fear.

That's a little extreme. How about, "Be reasonably aware and intelligent, understand that sometimes @!$%# happens and life comes with risks, or be unreasonably paranoid"?

I've watched people shake off pepper spray the way a Labrador shakes off water. She's a Texican, buy her a large caliber pistol and a course at reputable shooting school.

Sorry, Chris-749391, I'm not short and overweight, and with one exception (out of maybe two dozen), neither are my friends with CCWs.

Keep in mind, Sarah, that it's your life and your body, and you are ultimately responsible for keeping them safe. It's not paranoia to realize that the world is not a safe place, especially for a woman. If you really understand that @!$%# happens, it's only prudent to take steps to avoid or survive it when it does.

They were ambushed......that means they had no chance to defend themselves. They legally aren't old enough to buy or carry pistols legally. Exactly where are you going with this? I am very pro-gun but idiotic comments like yours make us all look bad.

Keep in mind, Sarah, that it's your life and your body, and you are ultimately responsible for keeping them safe. It's not paranoia to realize that the world is not a safe place, especially for a woman. If you really understand that @!$%# happens, it's only prudent to take steps to avoid or survive it when it does

That would be my "reasonably intelligent and aware", but those who fear monger and insist on gun ownership, are as bad as those who want to outlaw gun ownership all together.

Sarah, I rarely carry a gun, but I do when the situation calls for it. There is nothing paranoid about being prepared for defending yourself. Self defense is mostly a mental ability, but having some tools is very useful. When my daughter was working late at a grocery store when in high school I gave her a really good blade she kept in her car. Maybe that was breaking some rules but not likely to get her into trouble with the cops in our state.

Most studies (not NRA studies) have shown that most people who try to defend themselves with guns usually get them taken by their attacker and used against them.

Martial Arts training is far more useful than firearms training. I was trained to shoot first and fight later in life. In a lot of situations the martial arts training was more practical and useful than the shooting. I've never had to pull a gun on anyone in a self defense situation. The only time I ever would have I could not legally or practically carry a gun on my person.

I survived and beat a knife wielding drunk with only the most basic of hand to hand combat training.

Most of you who are saying they should get a gun have never been in a life or death defensive situation based on your idiotic comments.

Max^108 - Pepper spray is better than nothing, but a pistol - even a .22 - is far better.

What do you do with your pistol when you go to school? Apart from Texas, most college campuses and all high schools ban guns.

Max,

That's a personal choice you make for YOURSELF, but when you make comments as extreme as "Be armed or live and die in fear", you come across as overly enthusiastic and dramatic.

That may be how you keep fear at bay, but you can't really push that theory on others. As I said above, That would be my "reasonably intelligent and aware", but those who fear monger and insist on gun ownership, are as bad as those who want to outlaw gun ownership all together.

My peace of mind is not, and will never be, dependent upon my owning a gun. People should respect and understand that, as I respect and understand that some people's are dependent on gun ownership.

That is the problem I have with the NRA and overly enthusiastic gun owners.

Every person should have their own tank, complete with nuclear tipped shells. /s

WTF, the whole purpose of the second amendment was ostensibly to prevent the national government from getting too much power by having an army which could defeat a state militia. Well, guess what, the Federal government does have all the military power. A large portion of the active military consists of activated national guard units.

The SCOTUS got it wrong a long time ago when they ignored the "well-regulated militia" part of the second amendment.

Girls should carry knives, not pepper spray. Ever watch cops when they mace (which is way stronger than pepper spray) a drunk or drug fueled guy. It does absolutely nothing to stop him. If you are being attacked, stab him wherever you can, and start twisting it and moving it around until he lets go.

Max,

Her (your daughter) having a knife with her is not going overboard. Going overboard would to be giving her a knife for self defense without her knowing how to use it.

As in her pulling it out on a perp and the perp easily obtaining and using it on her. Turning the tables.

MrBurns,

As I mentioned, without training, knives are more dangerous to the person using it trying to defend themselves. Personally, I'd rather have both. Maces the guy in the face then use the knife. It all sounds like a plan until it actually happens. Then, it all seems to go a little differently.

Sarah, years ago I lived in Chicago for some time, working in a part of the town which was rather bad, with all sorts of dark characters loitering about during day or night. I started caring my .45 after some young punks tried to rob me. Fortunately, I managed to outrun them, but I was not going to count on my luck next time. I had to flash that gun a couple of times when approached by similar delinquents during the few months I was working there. Eventually I moved back South, where I hardly ever encounter such situations. About the only time I had to use a weapon here was to shoot a big wild tomcat who was eating my daughter's kittens.

Why pepper spray? I've read many reports of pepper spray and even tasers not stopping some people. People should consider getting a gun if they're old enough. I see from reading some of the posts that many are in agreement.

Max,

I get it, I'm not disparaging you for wanting to own one, however, personal stories don't hold much water. No offense, and they're pretty much all I hear from gun enthusiasts.

Here's my take...

Crime prevention needs to be looked at through the lens of a hybrid social science that includes criminology, victimology, sociology, and psychology. You can't simply say, "Guns make criminals think twice." No, they don't. Crime is motivated by all sorts of different social and cultural factors, by all sorts of different individuals, and each crime comitted by each criminal is different. Guns would only make them think twice if each criminal and each crime was rational.

Self defense also needs to be taken a case at a time. There are only a few instances, under an alignment of a perfect set of circumstances where a gun would work. Think about it... Timing, location,the circumstances of the crime, the mental capacity of the victim, the lifestyle of the victim, the relationship between the victim and the perpetrator... I could go on and on. An example, drive by shootings, a completely innocent person caught in one, is dead, long before they could pull a gun. Rape? Most rape is acquaintance rape, where victims tend to freeze or not even realize what's happening until it's too late.

And the government, really? First, who are these people, that we voted into office I might add, that want to usurp our liberty? Why would they want to destroy the very system that gives them their power? Why wouldn't checks and balances stop them? How would they go about doing this? Would they get our military to join them? If so, why would our military? If not, why wouldn't we use our military to stop them? Think about it. The 2nd Amendment was written when a red coat or "injun" could literally show up at your door, with zero notice, and kill you, while help was days, if not weeks, away. Now we have radar, cell phones, police, national guards, and we're all pretty much crammed into cities or suburbs.

I will say as far as response times go I still own a gun. Most altercations happen in a matter of seconds. Police average response times can be up to 30 minutes or longer not counting the call to 911. Carrying a gun on the street is an entirely different matter and would depend on the area I guess. I still advocate self defense / martial arts training first before getting a gun.

Sarah, guns prevent crime all the time. That is why police officers carry guns. These are not personal stories but statistics and facts. Find me a victim who will tell you that having a weapon at that critical time would not have been helpful to them.

and btw... I'm part 'injun' and you whites butchered far more of my people than we did of yours. We Cherokees have not forgotten, even as we tried to live in peace with the whites. Anyway... have a nice day.

and btw... I'm part 'injun' and you whites butchered far more of my people than we did of yours. We Cherokees have not forgotten, even as we tried to live in peace with the whites. Anyway... have a nice day.

Not saying they didn't. Illustrating the ignorance of that type of thinking in today's world.

That is why police officers carry guns.

Do you think it's logical to compare a state granted authority, with extensive training, support and back up, with Joe Schmo on the street?

These are not personal stories but statistics and facts

Then please, post me some links. And yours was definitely a personal story.

Mr. Burns said:

Girls should carry knives, not pepper spray.

Wet Willy said;

Why pepper spray? I've read many reports of pepper spray and even tasers not stopping some people. Consider getting a gun. I see from reading some of the posts that many are in agreement.

While I do own a gun (inheritance--a historic relic S&W my Dad carried in Nam) I have never once even needed to take it out of the house.

Two years ago someone tried to beak into my house while my hubby, kids and I were eating dinner. He took the kids to the back bedroom and barricaded them in (he's disabled) and I went out the back door with my twin swords and caught this homeless stoner trying to break in. I held him at swordpoint until the cops got there. (They knew who I was, thanks to reports from neighborhood watch --fortunately, none of them were confrontational George Zimmerman types they all reported it and let the cops deal with 'the crazy kid waving a sword'.

My Dad (Vietnam and Korea Army vet) always told me to evaluate a situation quickly, use common sense, establish a goal, then use the least amount of force necessary to accomplish your goal. I have never needed his gun. My swords have been sufficient. And I live in an inner-city municipality that is neutral ground for five different gangs. To be completely fair, they have seen me practicing out in the field by the local church, that might have deterred them from trying anything--but even the law-abiding residents say they'd steer clear of me unless there's a zombie apocalypse.

Always piping up with a liberal bent to every story. Leave it to Sarah.

By the way, Way to really mourn the loss of your partner, Less then three months after this trajedy and she allready has a new love. I'm sure that relationship meant a lot to her. Like everything nowadays, tossed aside for the latest. Not that anyone expects her to be celibate but she hasn't even recovered from her injuries but felt the need to start a new relationship.

Max,

In my situation I would loved to have had a weapon. I looked all around for something to improvise with. In the end all I had was my fists and a shot of adrenaline. I came out of it just fine. Before you say I should have had a gun it would have been illegal for me to have it in on the premises or in the vehicle I used to get there. It would have been impossible to conceal in what I was wearing.

I agree with Sarah that it is not practical to carry a gun in all situations. For home defense is ok, concealed carry is ok, but not always warranted, legal or practical. Most on the street situations would require training in self defense and gun or other weapon carry would be at your own discretion. Nobody should be turned loose with a gun and only a CCL class. It never works like in the movies or in your head. You can still carry a gun and be a victim. It's more the illusion of security for most people.

Max said:

Find me a victim who will tell you that having a weapon at that critical time would not have been helpful to them.

There was a story last month about a man who was at home when there was a bang on his apartment door. He grabbed his gun as his door came down and opened fire. The two guys in black standing at the door returned fire. The man died.

The two guys in black ended up being police. A motorcycle thought to belong to a suspected armed robber was parked in the man's apartment parking space, so they assumed the apt number on the space was where the robber lived. Seeing as how the robber was considered armed and dangerous, police procedure decreed that they were not required to announce they were police before breaking in--it would give the suspected criminal a warning that they were coming.

Only after the bullets stopped flying did the cops realize they had the wrong guy and the wrong apartment--the motorcycle plates came up registered to someone who lived three doors down. They did arrest that guy, but as for the guy with the gun who thought he was defending his home--the cops said it was his fault for shooting first.

It is my opinion he would, quite emphatically, tell you that having a gun at that exact moment was definitely NOT helpful to him...but he's dead.

Dom,

I noticed you didn't actually engage in a debate with me on the issue. Are you not capable, or do you just find enjoyment in personally attacking strangers?

@Amanda Did they knock on his door then enter? Or did they just knock on the door and he shot through it? The problem is if it had been the other way around the homeowner would be in jail because they would swear they announced themselves. A couple of years ago the same thing happened to a former Navy SEAL. Police were serving a warrant on the wrong house, broke into his home at night without announcing they were police. Apparently a short time later he phoned the local Sherrif to report he had killed 5 intruders.

A very disturbed person killed one young woman and nearly killed another, he used a firearm instead of a knife or a baseball bat or some other method. People are murdered every day sadly, this story made the news because the editorial stance of nbc is to highlight any crime that can potentially be called a hate crime. At this point there is no clear evidence about the motive of the shooter. The survivor is being exploited by a cynical media that will drop her the moment she does not serve their purpose, I wish her well.

Randy, your points are valid of course. However, I'm a rather slim guy and that is why I like to have a weapon when faced with a degree of risk. I had hand to hand combat training while in the military but I was not terribly good at it. However, I was a good shot, almost made a sniper, I'm good with the blades and can throw knives quite well, so I do what works for me.

You know that after he spanked her, he finished off. He probably tried to lick her toes clean, too.

Randy said:

@Amanda Did they knock on his door then enter? Or did they just knock on the door and he shot through it?

They broke down his door. As soon as he saw this dude in black with a mask and black body armor he fired. The cop and the cop behind him both fired at the homeowner and killed him.

The problem is if it had been the other way around the homeowner would be in jail because they would swear they announced themselves.

Yep. The cops came straight out and said that they had not identified themselves--they were only following procedure.

Magnis, I carried a firearm on duty for almost twenty years, and your post is some of the worst malarkey I've ever read! Where do you get this stuff? First off, one does not have to be an "assassin" to use a pistol with deadly effect. The average person can learn to shoot accurately enough to incapacitate or kill. Second, caliber means nothing. The lowly .22 kills more people on average than any other round. It's a matter of placement, usually center mass. Third and finally, no one should bet their life on Pepper spray causing an assailant to drop his or her weapon. Some people aren't affected at all by it.
You don't know what you're talking about, so you shouldn't be giving advice. Your suggestions are not only ignorant, they're actually dangerous.

@Amanda Then the cops should be in jail for criminal negligence for being so stupid. They broke down the wrong door then the homeowner has a reasonable right to defend himself. If they got off with nothing then I am truly disgusted with this country. You did say it was Chicago though right? Makes more sense. My boss got the phone book treatment one time in Chicago for being a smartass during a stop and frisk. Chicago Police are well known for corruption, abuse of power and protecting their brother in blue.

Randy said:

The cops should be in jail for criminal negligence for being so stupid. They broke down the wrong door then the homeowner has a reasonable right to defend himself.

While I agree with you, it was decided that the victim was at fault for shooting first.

Also, the whole thing could have been avoided if they'd run the plates on the motorcycle FIRST. How often do you think someone parks in the wrong space on an apartment building's parking lot?

You did say it was Chicago though right?

I don't remember exactly where the shooting took place.

I agree with you. They should have done their job and run the plates first instead of playing Cowboys.

If somebody comes through your door armed in all black why wouldn't you shoot first? That's a ridiculous decision by the court. I'm not asking somebody in all black with no identifying badging that just busted down my front door who they are and what they are doing in my house and give away my position. If they weren't cops I'd be just as dead. I'm going to light somebody up. Of course we have Castle Doctrine in my state....I don't know what the law is where that happened.

"It is my opinion he would, quite emphatically, tell you that having a gun at that exact moment was definitely NOT helpful to him...but he's dead"

@ Amanda - That is simply a tragedy and not the norm. I think everyone in America would tell you that having a motor vehicle is an asset that you almost cant do without. However, I can give you thousands of examples each year regarding people who wished they had never gotten into a car on a certain day. Far more people are killed each year in motor vehicle accidents, than are killed with their own firearms. I guess maybe we shouldnt drive? Please..... do yourself a favor. Dont believe that twin swords will put you on even ground against a motivated attacker who is even remotely skilled with a handgun ..... much less a shoulder fired weapon. You will lose every time.

Randy: Here it is. Yeah, I got some of the details wrong. Faulty memory, getting senile in my old age...

LAKE COUNTY, Fla. —

Lake County Sheriff's Office deputies shot and killed a man they assumed was an attempted murder suspect on Sunday, but they now know they shot the wrong man.

In the early-morning hours, deputies knocked on 26-year-old Andrew Lee Scott's door without identifying themselves as law enforcement officers. Scott answered the door with a gun in his hand.

"When we knocked on the door, the door opened and the occupant of that apartment was pointing a gun at deputies, and that's when we opened fire and killed him," Lt. John Herrell said. "Even though this subject is not the one we were looking for when he opened the door. He was pointing the gun at the deputy and if you put yourselves in the deputy's shoes. They were there to pick up someone who was wanted for an attempted homicide."

Officials said the deputies did not identify themselves because of safety reasons.

Deputies thought they were confronting Jonathan Brown, a man accused of attempted murder. Brown was spotted at the Blueberry Hills Apartment complex and his motorcycle was parked across from Andrew Scott's front door.

"It's just a bizarre set of circumstances. The bottom line is, you point a gun at a deputy sheriff or police office, you're going to get shot," Herrell said.

OOBuck said:

@ Amanda - That is simply a tragedy and not the norm.

Absolutely.

I think everyone in America would tell you that having a motor vehicle is an asset that you almost cant do without.

I don't have one. Never had one. Will never have one. There were times when it would have been nice to have one but I've done fine with public transit and my bicycle.

However, I can give you thousands of examples each year regarding people who wished they had never gotten into a car on a certain day. Far more people are killed each year in motor vehicle accidents, than are killed with their own firearms. I guess maybe we shouldnt drive?

I got hit by a car on my bicycle. Have permanent nerve damage on the right side of my face as a result. The problem wasn't the car, the problem was the idiot who decided doing 30 on a 15-mph-one-way-residential-street while talking on the phone was a good idea.

Please..... do yourself a favor. Dont believe that twin swords will put you on even ground against a motivated attacker who is even remotely skilled with a handgun ..... much less a shoulder fired weapon. You will lose every time.

Dad taught me to evaluate a situation, make decisions and use common sense. I looked out my front window and saw that the guy kicking my door and breaking the doorknob was uncoordinated, looked like he was sleepwalking, had tracks in his arms unkempt and very dirty. At that point I decided that I could handle him and made the decision to confront him, if only to stop his banging on the door that was scaring my kids (my youngest is autistic.)

If I had looked out the front window, saw that he seemed to be determined, clear-eyed, and in full possession of all his faculties, I wouldn't have been going out the back door with my swords, I would have been going out the back door with my husband and my children to a neighbor's house. There is nothing in my house that is worth my family's life. If someone is truly determined to have it all they can have it. Things can be replaced. Lives can't.

Oh wow, glad it only took 3 whole months to get over her dead lover. Sick.

@Seewhat I mean188, Wait!!! She said that she was heartbroken but moving on. What is wrong with that? She needs support at this point in her life as she tries to recover as best as she can.

So 5'8" tall is short? Just come out and say you don't believe people should conceal carry and stop with the bull@!$%# already.

I'll rely on pepper spray once it's the same strength as police issued mace and can be easily found at places like Walmart.

Pepper spray vs. large caliber handgun?

Not everyone is out to kill someone.

"Because her sexuality is a possible motive behind the crime."

So is her nationality, gender, hair color, color of her clothing, the money in her purse and about 100 other things. Specificity her sexual orientation is yellow journalism. This is and was an attempt by NBC News to create the story that it was a hate crime when no evidence of that exist at this time.

Not to mention they could have just reported that a couple was shot and the facts would have reveled that they were lesbians. Example: A couple was walking down the street this morning when a dog barked at them. The couple Janet Smith and Jill Dow where accosted by the dog after leaving their residence to take a walk around their neighborhood.

Uh, she was shot in the head. Chapa is lucky to be alive, not the other way around. Even if doctors were right there, the other girl probably wouldnt have lived. Living through a gun shot to the head is a very small exception, not the rule.

According to reports the Drs all say she was extremely lucky to have survived--when she woke up in the hospital she was communicating via sign language and writing, she couldn't talk.

Not necessarily Eng, in Texas, as in many other states there are often many dozens of DNA testing going on for both homicide victims and suspects.

It isn't quite like we see on CSI or NCIS, very few homicides are committed, investigated and an arrest made in less than an hour (of which `20 minutes go to commercial breaks)

One thing these types of TV programs really do well, is to teach people, which in my context, includes police officers, the importance of crime scene integrity.

A note to those of you who think just because guns are prohibited from schools and campuses, that a criminal with a gun will not enter those environs, is not only ignorant but also IMHO stupid.

Criminals do not live within the law, criminals with guns just don't give a rat's behind about laws.

So why is this case any more important than the murder of someone else's loved one? Just because she was a lesbian? Does that deserve special consideration? Not in my book.

Ah yes, because hanging out after dark was the crime committed here.

Typical conservative response...blame the victim.

Emily, this hardly blames the Victim. She as a teenager with another teenager in a dark place after dark. They were so isolated that tehir bodies were not found until the next morning. This should be a warning to other people, young and old not do things in dark, isolated places because bad people really do exist and sometimes those bad people do very bad things. What is is unfortunate about this reporting is that it was immediately reported that they were two lesbians when there was no reason to believe the crime happened because of their sexual choice. Even now the Media goes on about their being lesbians, as if two girls entire lives could be summed up with their sexuality. Sorry, but two lesbians were not attacked. Two teenage girls were attacked and until there is some reason to suspect an actual motive it is foolish and politically motivated to create one.

Maybe we should make dark places safer. Actually this story doesn't mention much about their sexuality.

HOWEVER, the shooter shot and then ran. If he wanted to steal something, wouldn't he have? This smells of a hate crime.

Why do people like Sarah and Emily have to turn every warning into blaming the victim bs?

I agree, you should be allowed to walk in any public area, unarmed, and not fear being attacked by anyone. But guess whay, you cant. There are crazy people in the world and you should be ready for them. Are these girls to blame for their murder? In no way, shape or form (unless something comes to light to say they were, but I dont think thats going to happen). But can they serve as a reminder to other people to always be vigilant and safe? I say yes, and this is not victim blaming.

Mr. Burns,

Because his post implies that it was the behavior of the girls that should have been changed. Why was the girls' behavior the first thing he thought to question, when, as you say, they had done nothing wrong?

So you implied that he was blaming the victims? He didnt say anything like, they got what they deserved, or they were asking for it or anything like that. He was saying something that is true for most places. Dont be alone at night in a deserted park because bad things can happen. Its what most of us tell our kids (i dont have any btw), and it is what we should especially tell young girls. It is not their fault, but they should be more cautious for their own safety, and young girls reading this article (and young boys) should take this tragedy as a warning so that they can stay safe in the future. The guilty party (whoever killed them) is soley to blame and should be strung up, but it doesnt mean we cant look towards what people can do to protect themselves.

Sarah-3043284 well, their behavior and choice for a place to hang around is part of what made them an easier target, you can consider it whatever you want, but the facts are facts, most of our problems start from our own choice; be smart and don't become an easy victim.

Sarah,

I do not think (unless perp knew girls) he had any idea about their sexuality. These people are right, I am 6'4" and 285 lbs. I am a martial arts expert and I carry a concealed weapon all the time. I would agree, you can't just go out to secluded, dark area's without proper precautions.

I would hope that when it comes to this type of behavior, sexuality, doesn't play into it. I pray they catch the killer and exact justice swiftly... Someone like this is a DANGER to EVERYONE!!!

David & Rom,

If we live our lives as potential victims, we lose out on an awful lot. Read the first thread if you want to here my position, since I don't feel like retyping, lol.

We should all be able to go out anytime anywhere and be safe, I wish it were so. I have a 24 yr old daughter in grad school and there have been attacks on women on campus, because I love her and worry about her safety I advised her that she should not walk around alone after dark( she didn't need my advice but I couldn't help it, I am a dad) because in reality it is dangerous, not because she shouldn't be able to go anywhere. We can hardly blame the victims because numb skulls roam the streets.

But you can do everything you can think of to be safe and still become a victim.

About four years ago I was waking down a sidewalk in my municipality at 2PM. Bright sunny summer day, with my bike, through a waterfront park. A guy who was waking behind me stuck his hand between my legs and grabbed a handful of my private parts; I yelled, he started running. I pulled out my cellphone and chased him down while on the phone with the cops. He eventually wet to jail for 8 months for assault battery, illegal weapons and fourth degree sex offense plus parole violation.

Turned out he was a child molester who had previously done 10 years for molesting a little girl. I am short, was wearing jeans, sneakers with rainbow hearts because I wear a child shoe size 3, apparently he thought I was a kid.

So you can do what you think is safe and still become a victim. Instead of blaming a victim for where they were walking, what thy were doing, etc., how bout we blame the one who doesn't understand what 'keep your friggin' hands to yourself!' means? Or the one who doesn't understand what 'Murder is illegal' means?

Yes... because everywhere that is dark has boogeymen lingering in the shadows.

I had hung out in scary dark woods all time when I was younger and never was attacked, yet my sister had been mugged in broad daylight.

Because you are blaming the victims. NO ONE deserves to be shot or raped or attacked. Your anger should be at the weirdo who can get a gun and then goes around shooting people, not that the girls who are guilty of nothing more than being naive and trusting the society they live in. Be smart but also direct your anger toward the appropriate party, insensitive jerks.

instead of pepper spray how about not hanging out in the middle of night in a deserted park? trust me nothing ever good happens after midnight.

Actually , that was the most intelligent post i have read on here. I can for see a lot of pepper spray carrying vigilantes ,spraying yourselves if the wind is wrong. So now your scared and can't see to run. what a way to help your attacker.

Emily,

Have you gone off your meds or something? No one is blaming the victims. You're right, no one deserves to be raped or shot. Thats why we have laws that say its illegal. But guess what, some people still do it. So prevention is more important that trying to get the guy afterwards because the deed was already done. Just because you feel you should be careful, does not mean you are blaming the victim. Nice voting for yourself btw.

Amanda,

Personal stories are not evidence. (Sorry that happened to you btw, but at least it led to getting him off the streets).

We do blame the perps. Thats why there was a huge man hunt and investigation, and why, if they catch him, they'll probably execute him because its Texas. We are taught to never touch anyone, and everyone knows its not cool to murder. But the world is not roses and gumdrops. There are sick people everywhere (as you sadly learned yourself). We cannot account for people like the guy who attacked you because there will always be those few pieces of scum that will attack anywhere, but the truth is, most criminals are cowards. If you are not alone at night in a deserted park you are safer than if you are. If you are a woman walking home from a bar or whatever at night, you are way more safe from strangers if you are walking with a man than if you are by yourself or another woman because the potential rapist doesnt want to get into a fight. This does not make you a bad person if you do walk home by yourself through a deserted park, but it does make you vulnerable, and while its true that you shouldnt need to, our society makes it so you should take procautions so you dont become a victim.

Bravo for how you handled that guy btw.

Uncle Henry was blaming the victim. Go back on your meds.

Actually Emily, he was trying to share some common sense with some people that need it. No meds needed and theirs nothing wrong with that.

Blown,

Now you've gone and hurt my feelings. I have a feeling that you're that Retnavy, person, just under a different name.

Carmen?

It will blind them long enough to have a chance to run.

I sincerely hope you are never attacked, Emily. Because pepper spray will not blind your attacker.

@ Karlst They were ambushed at night with ZERO chance to defend themselves. They are both too young to own a handgun much less carry one. Your opinion is uninformed and idiotic given the situation.

I can guarantee most of you extremist pro-gun nuts that I can knock you out before you can get your pistol out of your waist band. I own several guns and I carry a .45 but I've never once been in a situation where I had to use it. The only time I ever would have I was in a bar and grill at a marina on the 4th of July. You never know when something bad can happen to you. In TN it is illegal to have a gun on a boat or in a place that serves alcohol (at that time). Not to mention trying to conceal a pistol in speedo shorts. Long story short my friend got his throat slit and I fought with the guy for what seemed like forever. I had only basic martial arts training at that point. I got a black eye and he ran off with his tail between his legs. I don't remember what happened to the knife. If I had a gun on me I would have killed him, I don't deny that. Point is you never know and in my experience and the years of training I've had since then learning to fight is more effective. My friend survived, btw. The drunk got probation and I got my black belt. Justice in America.

Emily, it will not blind them. Watch cops when they mace (stronger than pepper spray) a drugged out or very drunk guy. Many of them hardly react, and still come after the cops. Karlst is right, it will probably just piss them off. If a gun is not to your fancy, have a knife. Just stab into whatever you can and start twisting. Trust me, the guy will let go, and probably just lay there screaming.

Randy,

Distance is your friend. Your black belt requires you to close with and contact your opponent. Bad idea if they can strike from a further distance than you can. You will never get close enough, assuming you are a good guy minding his own business, and not a bad guy intent on harming someone.

Sounds like you have been in a situation where you needed a firearm and didn't have one. And you still advocate using your hands or feet, or a knife?

The loser of a knife fight dies in an alley. The winner of a knife fight dies in a hospital.

If I'm that far away and I can't close the distance I will just shoot them. I never said I didn't carry a gun. THE ONLY TIME I NEEDED IT I COULDN'T TAKE IT WITH ME. But most all defensive handgun books say that an attacker can still close the distance from 30 feet even if shoot them. It's never like the movies and it never happens the way you think it will.

I was in a situation where it was ILLEGAL to carry a firearm with me. So yes I still advocate using my hands and feet since that is the only weapon available most of the time. Nobody would reasonably or legally carry a firearm into the place I was attacked. It was a million to one situation. Just like most real world self defense situations. You can't always carry a gun. You don't always have a gun. Unless your a paranoid nutcase or like breaking the law. I was recently in a foreign country where I could not bring a gun with me or any sort of weapon through customs. I can't bring it into where I work and I don't need to. So that leaves the rare occasion I go to the toxic waste side of town. Which is almost never.

Yes, I still advocate martial arts training over firearms training. I never said you shouldn't carry a gun, but most of the time realistically you will need the martial arts more.

P.S. If somebody has the drop on you...your FUBAR either way.

Of course none of this is nearly as important as rule number one.....CARDIO

Well gays do tend to be "all in your face" because "they" have a right to do what they want. Some people aren't ready to see public displays of affection of the same sex. Please this wasn't south beach or new york it doesnt surprise me, but very sad.

Seewhat - You mean that gays are "all in your face" because they want to be able to live openly like the rest of us? Hold hands? Kiss in a park where no one is around? Isn't that awful? That is "all in your face?" How does that affect you? Grow up!

So they're guilty of being naive and trusting. Shame on them.

Actually Emily, after more than 3 decades of increased violence, especially against young people, After hate crimes, after people disappear every day because they don't use common sense and open themselves up to criminals then yes, they are guilty of being naive. That naive nature did not cause tehir attacker to attack them but it did allow tehir attacker to do what he did free from observation and with impunity and their naive nature can be seen as endemic to other teenagers who need to learn from their mistake. All you see is the attacker, this is as short sighted as those who try to blame the victim.

People disappear and are attacked every day because there are criminals out there that attack them, not because victims are living their lives the way they want. Yes, be smart, but don't blame people for being trusting. People are attacked in broad daylight, in the comfort of their homes, sitting in their classrooms...

But more people are attacked at night by themselves Emily.

They weren't leaving a bar. They were taking in the view before heading out to a movie.

random violence happens all the time.

Just last week a telephone repairman was killed for his wallet in Kansas City....yeah, random violence happens all the time, like vermontguy says. Sad you would bring drugs and money into a conversation and insult these women.

generally, being killed in the theft of a wallet does turn that into "random bold" violence. The crime isn't necessarily random, its the SEVERITY of the crime that is the random element here. Most criminals don't commit murder in the process of stealing your wallet. Its just one example of where the violence perpetrated is out of proportion to the basic crime.

as far as the reference to lesbians, well, that's just Capitalism 101. Stories about sex get much more attention (hence money).

No robbery, no rape, random shooting of gay couple together...and in Texas...it's not crazy to guess that's a hate crime.

Emily, you do paint with a very broad brush don't you. I would almost be willing to consider your ideas except for one very telling thing. You needed to make it clear that this was Texas, that because it was Texas it had to be a hate crime which also means that in your mind people in Texas are all guilty of hate, which is an odd stance considering that the two victims were also from Texas, and Gay. Given enough time a persons bias will always show through and now your is showing through.

This had nothing to do with being-in Texas, any more than the Wayne Williams child murders can be blamed on Georgians.

By the way, California, a very liberal anti gun, pro alternative lifestyle state leads the nation in serial killings and gang violence. Not to mention the top 5 most violent cities in America are all Democrat led, liberal cities. So again, Texas and Texan ideas had nothing to do with.

Candlewycke, get off my back. I was just explaining why some people could jump to the conclusion that this is a hate crime. And yes, Texas has a smidge of a reputation for being hateful and backward. It's a stereo-type, I'm not saying it's fair, I'm saying the reasons I listed above, taken together (not JUST Texas as the location, which you mistakenly inferred) are reasons people are going to think this is a hate crime.

Ryan, about your thinking, or lack there-of,

"So it's not a hate crime period."

Thus far, the police have not established a motive for this incident so you cannot, until proven otherwise, say this was not a hate crime, nor can you say it was a hate crime. It may have been a jealous suitor of one of the girls. A 'suitor' is not necessarily the same sex as the victim and, he or she is not necessarily known by the victims.

Until and, unless, a motive of political affiliation is established, what in the world does politics have to do with this and why are so many of you so belligerent that you need to interject politics into it? It wouldn't be because your first amendment permits you to be stupid would it?

Blessed Goddess.

Will you PLEASE stop derailing every article you comment on into a discussion about immigration?

Save it for a topic actually about immigration, and just chalk this up to a senseless crime that took the life of another person.

From Hill County News:

Kristene's aunt Delia Chapa Welch of Cedar Park, said she wants everyone to know that her niece is a good person. She played softball for years and is known as an outstanding pitcher who was being offered a softball scholarship from Texas A&M where she planned to attend this fall.

Seems to indicate she is at least a second-generation immigrant--her aunt's use of the last name Chapa as a middle name indicates she is a blood aunt and took the last name Welch upon marriage.

And that's if she is an immigrant at all. She/her parents could be from Puerto Rico, and would automatically be considered citizens.

Do you automatically assume that everyone whose last name is 'Lee' is an Asian first-generation immigrant? Or 'McDonald' indicates the person is a first-generation Scots immigrant?

By your reasoning then mitt Romney shouldn't be here (being the child of parents with Mexican nationality) or Tony Romo (second-generation American of Mexican heritage) or Mark Sanchez or Jessica Alba or Knowshon Moreno or.....

Really!?!?!?

pained1 you obviously aren't from Texas. Ever looked at a map of Texas? Town names like San Antonio, Mexia, Gonzales and Corpus Christi are pretty good indicators that Mexicans were here LONG before Texas was a country of its own, let alone one of the United States of America. Having grown up here and studied Texas history in school I can assure you that many of the folks who fought for Texas' independence were Mexican. The Alamo was originally called Misión San Antonio de Valero--not exactly American English now, is it? Your argument fails on many levels.

Yawn,blessed goddess or not FY

pained said;

Yawn,blessed goddess or not FY.

'FY', I'm assuming, is netspeak for an act of carnal knowledge.

I'll pass unless you're blonde with a great rack. And even that wouldn't fully make up for the emptiness between your ears--I've never found myself attracted to someone I can't have an intelligent conversation with. Beauty fades. Sex drives die. Intelligent, meaningful conversation never, ever gets old.

Who said she was mexican? She was probably an American. Hispanics have been over here way before your dad had a itch in his pants. Please check the Southern American map. Theres plenty pf Spanish countries. Where do you think Romney hides all his money?

Amanda-don't waste your time on these idiots. They need to read up on their history. They are just trolls

All the southern border states are the same. Why would all those white folks come over here and kill off the mexicans and the Indians and then claim everything for their own. Sick ba$tards. Why is the state called New Mexico, What about Los Angeles. All stolen from the natives. Your fore-fathers are a piece of $hit. I'm native, I can trace my roots, what about you, pained. Didn't kill us all off, and not all of us were forced to go to the reservations

Amanda dragged the lezzie into it.

Why can't you find a question mark for your questions?

I can trace my roots

Wow, there is something to be proud of Chief Englishflunker !

This has gone far enough,except,now you want to revise history and complain about the past.This nation changed the world.YOU apologize for war 200 years ago.

This nation changed the world? Yeah is that why everybody and their brother is trying to wipe their asse$s with us? Hope you don't live by the coast. That will be the first place to go. Bye bitches.

A war over 200 plus years? Not really. Brits came over here trying to act friendly then once the natives knew they were nothing but a big white lie, that fought back. Guess they didn't have much of a chance after all the diseases they brought over here with them just about wiped them out. Lock and load. The south will rise again. Not whitey. You are so proud of yourself. Don't want you as a neighbor.

retired.-Why are you on a post about gay women anyway? You are more into little boys I'm sure. I won't tell. You go to a catho(lick) church too, I'm sure of that. Sick fuh ker

Three stupid posts in a row on the same topic. I see what you mean alright.

Your my space cadet.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UE6iAjEv9dQ

You want to be me.

DO go on.

well, there seem to be very few real journalists anymore, anywhere. but as long as "sex sells", we'll see stories like this.

Saying it was a Lesbian couple does not mean it is about sex. If it was a boy and girl, they would report they were a couple. Would the article then be about sex? No, it would be about a young couple that this horrible thing happened to. It is an awful thing that happened. They happened to be a young couple.

Bigots who are against gay couples simply must then say it is about sex. It is not about sex. Only to bigots who cannot handle seeing a gay relationship as a relationship. You only can think of "sex acts". Because you have a sleazy mind, you make it into being about sex. Please grow up!

I think they reported on the story well before the suspect was characterized. Its a story with sexual overtones, so any good capitalistic news outlet will report on it, to make more money. americans LOVE stories that involve sex in some fashion...

Saying it was a Lesbian couple does not mean it is about sex. If it was a boy and girl, they would report they were a couple. Would the article then be about sex? No, it would be about a young couple that this horrible thing happened to. It is an awful thing that happened. They happened to be a young couple.

Bigots who are against gay couples simply must then say it is about sex. It is not about sex. Only to bigots who cannot handle seeing a gay relationship as a relationship. You only can think of "sex acts". Because you have a sleazy mind, you make it into being about sex. Please grow up!

Really Donald? WRONG!

Donald - Please stay home! Thank you!

And don't bring a fart to a @!$%# fight. Better yet, don't get in a @!$%# fight. :) Sorry, couldn't help myself.

*****************WARNING**************

Due to the frequency of human-bear encounters, the B.C. Fish and Wildlife Branch is advising hikers, hunters, fishermen and any persons that use the out of doors in a recreational or work related function to take extra precautions while in the field.

We advise the outdoors man to wear little noisy bells on clothing so as to give advanced warning to any bears that might be close by so you don't take them by surprise.

We also advise anyone using the outdoors to carry "Pepper Spray" with him is case of an encounter with a bear.

Outdoors men should also be on the watch for fresh bear activity, and be able to tell the difference between black bear feces and grizzly bear feces. Black bear feces is smaller and contains lots of berries and squirrel fur. Grizzly bear @!$%# has bells in it and smells like pepper.

Hee Hee Hee!