Amen! I couldn't have said it better (or more powerfully) myself. Keep the wolves; get rid of the rancher!

Wolves will be wolves, and McIrvine sounds like a whiner. Get your cattle on private land and then defend them.

They are not endangered anymore! If you look at the numbers, there are over 150 breeding pairs in Montana alone, which does not include all of the pups, yearlings, and loners. That's over 150 that had between 6-13 pups TWICE this year..They can breed 2 times a year. That's almost 900 (at 6 pups a litter) pups once a year. That's 1800 a year! There is no shortage of wolves. 8 wolves is not 12 or 13%. You are delusional. . It also does not count all of the wolves that are never seen. It would be physically impossible to find and count every single wolf around. There are way more wolves than you can even imagine. We don't want to kill them off. We want management. There's a difference.

You forgot to include those pups that won't make it to adulthood. 150 breeding pairs is minuscule. 6 pups per litter? Hardly.

Simplyput....very well stated!

6 to 13 pups! Usually, they have 10-11, and yes, some die, even if half of them died, that's still over 900 wolves added to the population of wolves in Montana alone. You can't seriously argue that they aren't "recovered." They are not endangered anymore and must be managed by something, or they will decimate elk, deer, and moose populations more than they already have. Why don't you go look up some moose numbers and facts right now, then tell me how you will feel when the wolves have killed off all of Montana's moose.

I used to not have an opinion over the hunting of Wolves. Being that I am a hunter my self, but having spent some time with my aunts wolves and getting to know them. Really puts an ache in my heart to listen to this story. Albeit wolves are different then your house hold dog. They are realy a beautiful animal and not to far removed from a domestic dog. I think that Bill could use other ways to combat his issues with the wolves.

Many so-called cattle ranchers lease for pennies vast swaths of govt. (taxpayer) land, then go about killing every creature in sight that wanders onto that land they do not own. Sweetheart ranchers deals are right up there with the con of farm subsidies; it is past time for both to go the way of the dodo.

It makes me sick when humans assert that they have supreme rights to this Earth. Humans have become the swarm of locusts that nature must deal with. No prayers or belief in a deity will stop that.

"Every mammal on this planet instinctively develops a natural equilibrium with the surrounding environment but you humans do not. You move to an area and you multiply and multiply until every natural resource is consumed and the only way you can survive is to spread to another area. There is another organism on this planet that follows the same pattern. Do you know what it is? A virus. Human beings are a disease, a cancer of this planet." Mr. Smith, The Matrix

How true!

They said that they are considered an endangered animal in our state, not Montana. When I was a kid (back in the mid-80's), I remember that a man brought a gray wolf to our elementary school and talked about them. At that time there weren't any wolves in the wild in Washington. He talked about how people kill wolves and are scared of wolves because of stories like "Little Red Riding Hood". We are raised to think that wolves are bad. It had a huge impact on my as a kid. He had a place called "Wolf Haven" and they were trying to bring back wild wolf populations. I remember him talking to us about how it was important for us kids to start thinking about wolves differently and that we could change the way other people thought about them by educating them. They shouldn't be killed just because they are wolves. WA state has worked hard to bring back wild wolf packs. They are an important part of the ecosystem and help keep other animal populations in check. Yes, they are still endangered in WA, and conservation is still important. I understand stopping wolves from preying on livestock, but seriously, can you expect them to if it is around? It is the wolf version of a McDonald's. Maybe we should start shooting everyone who goes through a McDonald's drive-thru in an effort to rid the world of obesity too.

So the cattle ranchers benefit from a tax payer subsidy while not having to work hard at their their part of prevention and they use excuses like 1800 wolves are PLENTY! Why don't you look up how much natural mortality there is per year in grey wolf packs.

"a radical environmental agenda" are conspiring to introduce gray wolves in order "to take our (grazing) lease from us."....I think this man has been drinking too much moon shine.

I have another idea---why don't tax payers cut back 100% of the ranchers subsidies. Why don't we sign THAT into Law.

((BTW: I should say I like steak as well as the next person, I just keep my red meat intake to once a week))

The rancher needs to be sent a large bill for any prior protection costs. F this rancher and the wolves have a right to eat if it's not your land. What if it was an endangered Tiger with on 5 left in the world and he was eating these cattle on PUBLIC land. Nobody would say Sht and probably cheer even more.

This is BS to kill all of these wolves trying to survive. The rancher needs to build in some "losses" if he wants a free ride on public land.

save the cattle its the ranchers fault B/S wolves were killed off for a reason before all you were born so you need to read up on it before commenting look at the Yellowstone example Wyoming now has a shoot on site with wolves they multiply much faster and range farther than was predicted elk and deer herds are down 40 to 60% in areas wear they have been introduced so they start to feed on cattle and its not all about food they will kill and eat only a small portion and go kill again just for fun wolves are bad just like in the stories myth always has a basis of fact

Tana, maybe you should do a little research. Typically in a pack, it is only the alpha pair that breed. They mate only once a year, in winter, not twice, and an average sized litter is around 5-7 pups. Yes there are some larger litters, but those are not typical.

Wow, that McIrvine nut sounds like a real winner, doesn't he?

What a moron. "We have a right to protect our private property" and this is a "rogue government agency," as his cattle graze freely on taxpayer supported public land.

I don't need to think to hard to predict who HE'LL be voting for come November...

Does McIrvine think Public property owned by the Government is his personally?. Keep you cows on YOUR land. Fence them in and do what the other farmers are doing to protect their cows.

Humans prey on cattle too, so......

Hmmm, wolves = predators, cattle = prey. Seem like normal behavior. Sad to see the loss of any wolves because they are just doing what wolves do. Hey, I know, mark all the cows, "Not available for wolf dinner!" Maybe that will be a good deterrent. Here in California they recently killed a mother mountain lion and her 3 half-grown cubs for eating a goat. But that is nothing to all the people getting killed by other people. Should we have open season on those predators too? (sarcasm here.)

public government land, leased for pennies. the "rogue government agency" demanding that the rancher take the steps to avoid this now tragedy for the wolves who survive on this very same land. responsibility by some is no higher than the grass his cattle graze upon. arrogant manifest destiny still has found a way to breed itself.

Tana Linscottvia Facebook

6 to 13 pups! Usually, they have 10-11, and yes, some die, even if half of them died, that's still over 900 wolves added to the population of wolves in Montana alone. You can't seriously argue that they aren't "recovered." They are not endangered anymore and must be managed by something, or they will decimate elk, deer, and moose populations more than they already have. Why don't you go look up some moose numbers and facts right now, then tell me how you will feel when the wolves have killed off all of Montana's moose.

Tana;

I think you just want them delisted so you'll have another species to hunt to the point of extinction. I noticed that you listed elk, deer and moose. I guess you hunter's just can't stand any competition. You also forgot to mention that small game such as rabbits, field mice and rodents make up a major portion of the wolf's diet. I suppose you forgot them because they don't make nice trophies hanging on your wall.

Signed: a former hunter and life long NRA member from Minnesota.

PS: I don't agree with delisting them in my state as well.

These wolves kill to survive, while humankind kills just because we can. Sad but true:(

Wolves are creatures with a sensitivity rare even among humans. They mate for life, they will mourn the death of their mate; they kill only what they need to feed the pack and their young. MAN on the other hand....well, you name it. And, if you want to keep nature in balance (read up on the restoration of the health of places like Yellowstone and Yosemite), wolves are a natural part of that. however....you have the greed of landowners (CERTAINLY not every cattleman and rancher is like the dimwit referred to in this story) and government takeover of every square inch of what used to be pristine wilderness...AND "manifest destiny"...goodbye to all the wolves and other wildlife, hello to wildfires burning down everything in sight. We bring about our own destruction when we seek to obliterate creatures like wolves. We've earned the destruction we bring on ourselves.

tana,

people like you tell us there are to many wovles. how is it a few thousand wolves is to many yet hundreds of millions of people who tax the earth much more than wolves isnt? when human overpopulation is discussed, people like you say things like all humans on the earth can live in texas in their own house (as if that's ever gonna happen or is a feasable scenario) with plenty of room to spare; but a few thosand wolves in an area covering millions of square miles is to many? such selfish stupidity will not only be the death of the wolves etc but of us as well. i hope these marksman are somehow killed while murdering these wolves ...

Buy your own property a hole. your herd is on public land. sounds like you got it made buddy

Sounds like you don't understand what you're commenting on buddy.

Ranchers pay for the use of public land.

Tana: It's amazing that before we had people and the environment, the wolves got along very well and didn't do anything to decimate the moose or other animal populations. Most predators go after the animals that are the slowest, sickest, or weakest. This is how they keep the other animals strong. Your argument doesn't hold water!! Before man, they did very well and everything was fine......there were no endangered species until man came along. So, let's not blame the wolves, okay? Man has settled on THEIR land, so what do you expect them to do? As for the moose population you're so worried about.....are you afraid there won't be any for you to kill for sport? Just asking.....

With this in mind, I'm not for killing the whole pack, and I blame the rancher for not taking the proper conservation methods to heart. He's the one to blame for his cattle being killed, and now a pack of wolves has to die for doing what they have done for centuries. And, just to let you know, Man is the ONLY animal that kills for the fun of it.....animals kill to survive.

Who are the murderers, Us or the Wolves? This makes me incredibly sad.

To the Rancher---why not protect your own livestock rather than commit murder.

Having your cattle on open lands puts them at risk-----so why not keep them on your own lands where there is minimal risk.

It is kinda like a neighbor with Llama in the mtns. where mtn. lions reside. You bring the lions down by tempting them with food-----yet they get killed when they try to eat.

Whose the perpetrator here, it's not the wolves or the cattle IT IS THE RANCHERS! And BTW: Mr. Rancher, MURDER IS AGAINST THE LAW---even in areas where there are wolves! And Cheney cannot protect you anymore! He may try but it is still Illegal to Kill in this Country! And you aren't killing for food, you are killing for pleasure and out of irresponsibility to your cattle!

I would have a lot more sympathy for this farmer if he had actually worked with authorities to protect his cattle, but instead he makes those crazy, conspiracy theory remarks and acts like he is entitled to do absolutely nothing and still keep his land lease. There really should be requirements if a person must follow if he expects to earn a living off of public lands, but this guy clearly has nothing but contempt for anyone who will try to tell him how to run "his" land.

Apparently we got along just fine without the damn wolves for 100 years. Don't need the wolves. Don't give me an bull about the wolves balancing the eco system, that is just baloney. It has been fine without them being a public nuisance for a 100 years, so that pretty much debunks that old eco system argument.

....wolf burgers don't taste like chicken...

Every year when I am hunting, I look around my friend's property as they gather up the calves and cows that are dead from their genetic modifications and cloning health issues. This BS about wolves killing them is just that: BULLS**T!!!! You see, the ranchers get compensation from the dead cows that drop dead due to health issues. They don't get compensated for the few that the wolves get. It amounts to one simple thing: greedy-assed pieces of s***!

Thoughts on wolves:

We have a wolf den close to work (sawmill...rural Minnesota). Mama was reserved and left us alone. Pups, on the other hand, invaded the plant (smelled the lunchroom) and stalked us. It was unnerving to be here alone, knowing my trip to the restroom was watched. These wolves have a right to exist here, and according to the conservation officer, they actually have to attack us in order for them to be removed. These wolves outweigh me by themselves. In the pack of four pups, I'm an appetizer. I'd have a helluva hard time calling the conservation officer without a pulse.

My father left his jacket out in the pasture and decided it was worth retrieving. It was leather. Towards dusk, he headed south but stopped abruptly. Six wolves encircled the jacket, pawing at it, hungering for the scent of fresh Dad.

In a world where it's predator versus prey, I'm fine with monitoring populations to avoid complete extinction. But when it comes to being the prey, annihilation is my preference.

Wolves are endangered and should be relocated rather than killed.

If ranchers used Great Pyrenees dogs as protection for their herds, there would be no losses from any predator.

All you environmental wackows need some real life. Yes people kill cattle and eat them but they pay for them also. Wolves do not pay for them. There is a reason our past kin killed these animals. They destroy the wildlife. All of it. For all of those that think we should let the wolf population grow to what it was I hope they introduce them to all of the country. Including New York and Washington. After all they were once there as well. They will attack and kill your pets and your children as well if they can. Lets let them loose in Central Park in New York. They might cure some of the homeless population. Is that what you want?

Maybe they should take some of the wolves to the states that are being overrun with wild hogs and let the wolves help take down the population of wild hogs that are destroying land. Maybe that would take care of two problems at once. Might be worth a try instead of killing all the wolves.

For everyone bitching about the cattlemen being greedy, yet you eat ground beef, steak or enjoy leather (shoes and purses), you need to shut up because YOU are part of the problem. If these cattlemen didn't have sales, there wouldn't any cattle to attack, would there? It is truly about cause and effect.

Washington State has game reserves for the Elk and Big Horned Rams - so why can't they set out some dog food for the Wolves?

Coyotes here in Arizona are a far bigger problem.

All these people that want to save the wolves,lets just relocate them to there back yard and see if they like that.

Wolves would tear a Great Pyrenees to pieces.....

WoodieRae: Then maybe we should anniliate man.....we're also predators! Just saying....again, your argument doesn't make much sense.

It's also worth noting that this particular rancher has REFUSED to work with conservation groups and practice non-lethal methods. Refused! I will never understand why everyone loves killing and is proud of it.

I believe that Wolves are endangered! We have taken over their land,not ours. Again it comes down to the Circle of Life, depleting a pack isn't going to solve this issue. We invaded their territory, we took their food, their shelter their home. Just like Colombus did hmmmmm see a similarity here? The reason why they are taking the cattle is because they are starving! This is for you CycleDude what the hell are you talking about Wolves decimating the Moose population?! It's life! that's what animals do! They are a very powerfull breed of animals they hunt as a pack, live as a pack and take care of their own as a pack! Maybe some of you folks out there can take some pointers from this PACK. The more we rid this earth of Bears, Wolves powefull breeds the more we lose the chance to teach our childeren about the wild. GET REAL PEOPLE!

I hate humans... except me, I'm the good kind. Wolves are creatures of benevolence and majesty, opossums are not; I think we should kill off all opossums... also tapirs. You know if ranchers would use tigers to guard their cattle they would have a lot less... cattle. McIrvine seems like the equal and opposite of Arieus.

It took such a long time to bring this Endangered Wolf species back to Washington State.

Why don't the trappers shoot them with a tranquilizer gun, and take them to some other Forested area where they are not near Cattle or domestic pets? Nature tells us this is normal Wolf behavior.

The Rancher is to blame as well. Not doing his job, in protecting his herd.

Washington State, and The Environmentalists, should absolutely know the consequences of bringing this particular Endangered Species back in packs, letting them get out of control.. They are at fault as well.

My friends in Sandpoint have a couple wolves as pets. They like to nip at your balls. Not a huge fan of that...so rude.

As for those who complain that elk and deer populations are down in places where wolves have made a comeback, remember that the corollary to that would be that the aspen groves and willows are getting healthier, which benefits many more species of animals. I would be willing to bet that the damage to public and private property caused by too many deer and elk is much greater than any damage caused by wolves in a balanced ecosystem.

To kill or harm wild animals for feeding to stay alive is sickening. All animals were on this planet long before humans but because we are so cocky and self rightous we think our way is the only way. How about going to a museum one day because thats the only place you could see what "were" animals indigenous to the USA. How pathetic, "A civilization should be judged by the way it treats its animals"...Ghandi

Breaking News: "Redneck Rancher Unaware of Fences, Spews Anti-Government Remarks" We're killing an entire pack for doing what all creatures MUST do? I bet the things are scared to death. You know they're gonna be merciless. Take a look at these comments, not a single pro-rancher to be seen (other than Tana, but she probably is one). 1800 wolves is PLENTY? Maybe when you can't do the math to figure out how many there should be based on the size of the land. Build a fence around your cows on YOUR land, you stupid hick farmer. @Toosano: Losing a few cows to some starving wolves isn't going to affect you getting steak, retard. @ Tana: Your arguments are irrelevant. He was on PUBLIC land and was NOT doing a good job keeping the wolves away. And you really don't have to do much to manage them. They almost never go after cattle unless they are starving. They have been known to walk through a group of cows just to get to a deer. Killing a pack isn't called managment, it's called extermination. Pups are part of the pack. What do you suppose will happen to them? The ranchers will no doubt have to put them down because they can't fend for themselves. Did you even consider that? Or are you one of those "out of sight, out of mind" people? .....Oh, wait! I see it now!! The wolves ARE to blame! They are such ruthless and violent creatures! We should just kill them off. Dogs, with their innocence and friendliness and slobery faces are related to wolves. We should kill all of them, too, because they eat our food. Come to think of it, we should just kill off ALL animals, because they eat food too!!! Get your heads out of your @$$es.

RGMoon, since when are cattle "wildlife"? Wolves achieved a balance with other wildlife way before white men came West with cattle & sheep. And as far as reintroducing them into your neighborhood or mine, you'd just run them over with that POS truck of yours, anyway. Sorry, just the ravings of an environmental wacko.

Humans don't taste good(at least the male doesn't anyway). Cattle are easy prey. That's why they hit them instead of the wild game.

Wolves kill cattle to survive because they are natural prey animals, humans kill for enjoyment.

Which is the problem?

I've been reading Tana Linscott's posts under various other's comments. Man, that is cracking me up. Tana, the internet is not your friend. You do realize that anyone can post anything on the internet, and that does not make it a fact! Try reading a scientific article from a peer-reviewed journal. Parasites are organisms, not diseases, and the numbers you provided on wolf reproduction are hilarious. I'm copying your comments and sending them to my wildlife colleagues, so we can all have a good laugh at your expense.

I know I know many of your don't care about this rancher and his cattle because you get your meat in the store after all.....lol

GENIUS:

"Lethal removal is being conducted in every" state with gray wolves, Ware added, while acknowledging that since wolf recovery efforts are new in Washington "the concept of killing an endangered species to promote recovery is difficult to understand or accept."

REALLY?!?!?! You could say THAT again!!! I wonder if the same could be done for lawyers and politicians?

If some of these nutjobs acred about people as much as animals, we wouldn't have so much trouble with all the hoodrats causing problems in the city.The Canadian Grey wolves are planted and they are much more aggressive than the native wolves in the US. They have decimated the Elk population in Idaho. hey sport kill and I've seen Elk carcasses where they have just ate the fetus out of the pregnant Cow Elk.

Do some research and read some articles...

A balance you say? Read Lewis and Clarks journal when they came through lands that were populated with a high wolf population. They nearly starved to death because there was no game to hunt. That was long before the white man came and settled the area. Wolfs kill and hunt all the time weather they are hungry or not. If you do not agree then go get one and invite it in your backyard with your pet or kids and see what happens.

This is sad. We originally killed off almost all of the wolves and took over a lot of THEIR land. They were here long before us, but because a wolf is doing what a wolf is supposed to do, HUNT, we are going to kill a whole pack? If you want to raise cattle move your herd to kansas!! Probably don't have to many problems with wolves there. Otherwise suck it up and protect your cattle!! What's next, a few cows get lost in the forest so we have to clear cut all of Washington.

Cycledude, i suspect that she mentioned elk, deer and moose because those are animals that are iconic to the wilderness of this country. When one thinks of the great outdoors, visions of rabbits do not typically come to mind.

Kansas used to have wolves also. Why don't we introduce them there as well?

I wish humans could live with other animals on this planet but we can't. Humans are too bloodthirsty and warlike with a lust for killing animals. Hell, we can't even live with each other so it's no surprise we can't coexist with nature.

As much as I am appalled at the killing of the wolves because some moocher rancher is grazing on (cheap) public land I have started to accept that human beings WILL destroy all of nature in the near future and there's nothing that can stop it. We can't fight the armies of ignorant people that revel in the destruction of wildlife and wildlife habitat. Rational, caring human beings are just outnumbered by the masses of people with a sense of entitlement to exploit natural resources right up until they are gone. They believe they have a god-given right to do it... so I think it is inevitable.

Hell, we can't even get the evangelicals to agree to keep our air and water clean! They just don't care if we all swim in a polluted and desolate planet.

I say the Ranchers stop feeding the wolf lovers. Go eat some sprouts and enjoy the soy. Quit eating at McD's and BK. Simplyput is a moron and an insult to the world, go cuddle with a wolf and see how nice they really are. Lots of people here want to eat meat but wait until you have to pay $20 or $30 per pound. And while we are at it lets turn some hungry ones lose in city parks. I like the three S's shoot, shovel, and shutup.

The rancher should buy some Mastiffs to protect his cattle that he is grazing on PUBLIC LAND and paying pennies for doing so. But I think that if the land he is living on is "too poor" to support cattle then he should STOP cattle ranching. In the Western states, they took prairie land away from the buffalo to raise cattle and found that the prairie grasses were not the right kind of feed for them, so they needed larger areas to graze their GENETICALLY ENGINEERED cattle. So they killed all the buffalo to make sure they had plenty of room and killed the prairie grasses to plant grass that doesn't do well in that area trying to improve their "spreads". The grass they planted to replace prairie grass is not doing a good job at soil retention and the soil is becoming exhausted trying to support the alien grass. Get rid of the cattle, period. Let the buffalo, wolves and mountain lions have the spaces that we took from them. Let the prairie grasses return to where they are best suited for and tell the western ranchers that if they can't graze their herds on their OWN lands, they should sell off enough of their herds that they CAN support the cattle on their own lands without NEEDING to graze on public lands. If that means they go out of business ... OH WELL. The genetically engineered cattle are bad for your body. NATURAL sources of protein (deer, elk, buffalo) are much better for your body.

All these people that want to save the wolves don't have back yards. They have lived in the city all their lives and don't have a clue.

When they resort to eating cattle, that are more than likely monitored closely by the ranchers, you know you have problems with there not being enough food in the area. I'm guessing that's probably why the pack was taken out. If the cattle were just relocated they would be looking for other food sources that my put people in danger, and like the article said if they were relocated they would just go after cattle again.

And to rgmoon, we have plenty of coyotes here in Kansas. I don't know if they have tried re-introducing wolves or not but I hope they never do. The coyotes tend to leave humans alone, I don't know if it would be the same with wolves. I don't want to go out on a walk at dusk or night looking over my shoulder for wolves.

Tana Linscott - while I'm all for balance, recognizing that wolves are an amazing part of a natural and historical American environment but this is also a different time when their presence is a menace in ways that simply won't be tolerated by all, your statement about wolves decimating the deer/elk/moose population is incorrect. Wolves typically weed out weak/sick/old and sometimes the young. Young are typically protected by older animals whereas even they know that sick/weak/old have to die to save the rest. This has been studied, and wolves are not overstepping their bounds there much. I love wolves and want them to be a part of our wild lands, and I'm not much in favor of ranchers grazing on public lands, but obviously things are very different than they once were and the majority of compromise is going to focused on the wolves. Their relatively low numbers (relative to historic counts, not one someone thinks is "many") means we just need to admire and cherish those we do have.

The only humans that the wolves would leave alone are attorneys........professional curtesy.

We're going to slaughter members of an endangered species? Because they're picking on cows which we have millions of and are slaughtered every day, every hour for their meat anyway? (I don't eat red meat, so I don't contribute to that). Does this seem like a sane conclusion?! I swear..why are some of the biggest decision makers the most dumb!

Wolves, following the natural order of the land, survival, but along comes the great white hunter to put them in their places. None of these Wolves are killing, to kill, they are feeding, put your cattle on your own protective land, that's the bottom line. Man just loves to kill, for his own entertainment, and FINANCIAL benefit.

Wolves learn quickly to take the easy route for food and fun, cattle are much easier prey than wild buffalo, antelope etc etc....

Anyone slamming this rancher as a moocher know how much he pays for his lease? Any of you eat beef?

I cannot believe the stupidity and ignorance and general lack of humanity and compassion of some people posting comments here. To say that a couple thousand wolves (in the entire continental US) is supposed to be considered A LOT? Versus 300+ MILLION people and 30+ MILLION heads of beef cattle in the US? And I'm not even counting the dairy cattle. ()

Regardless of how many in a litter, the vast majority of wolf cubs do not survive to adulthood and those that do only kill to survive. Contrary to something that someone else posted, predatory animals do not hunt for sport. To say they do is just laughable. Humans are the only animals that gain pleasure from deaths of other living beings. And don't think that just because I said that that I'm a tree hugging vegan, cuz I eat meat (though I pretty much stick to poultry and seafood). But you have to draw the line somewhere and preservation of the environment and the animals living in it are important.

Living in Southern California, we deal with wild animals occasionally in urban areas, not downtown, but in cities close to mountains or preserves and I've seen my fair share of coyotes in my suburban neighborhood. But as long as you take preventative measures to protect yourselves and your pets, they are not a problem and no one, be it little Fido or the coyote, needs to die.

I know that if a wild animal attacks a person, they will be killed to prevent future attacks on people, and though sad, it is understandable. But to kill these wolves over a few dead cattle? Give me a break! How can they claim that the damn cows are more important than wolves and human decency? That just because the wolves do not have an immediate and direct benefit to humans that they do not deserve the right to live? The thought is outrageous. Especially when the inhumane idiot (ahem...Bill McIrvine) issuing the complaints and demands took no preventative measures to protect his cattle.

I still think the authorities should have tried harder to protect the wolves and force the "I only care about $$" rancher to use non-lethal measures. It seems like they didn't even try the non-lethal measures and just jumped to "they have to be killed cuz they have a taste for beef" solution because it was the easiest and least costly. There's a lot of wilderness in Washington state and with only 8 packs (per the article) I don't see how there isn't land that they could have moved this pack to without interfering with other wolves. And if they did not adapt to their new habitat and died out, well TPTB would have gotten the same result they wanted. Personally, I think the only animal that needs to be relocated is dumbass Bill, to somewhere where there are no wildlife that he could cause harm to. -_-

As for the commenter who said that settlers killed almost all the wolves 100 years ago because they killed livestock, while that may be true in some cases, mostly they just did it for money. People back then (and even now it seems) just didn't know when enough was enough. There was once a million head of bison/buffalo in the US and almost all of them were killed for absolutely no reason. Well they had their reasoning, but none that were good. And they definitely couldn't claim that the buffalo were eating their livestock.

If I were living in Washington, I would be sending complaints of my own to any gov't agency that I can think of. And I'm not really religious, but I believe that you get back what you put out there in the universe and I sure hope karma gets that idiotic douchebag good.

I don't eat beef. It isn't good for you.

Here is my two cents on this topic; What's her name Tara (I believe) with ALL wild animals struggling for food in the wild they ALL are starting to come further out of their normal hunting grounds looking for food. Killing off 1800 wolves is and outrage and needs to be stopped. If you raise cattle or other food sources for humans, as well as wildlife, you run the risk of having some killed off by that wildlife. I truly believe that it is the Ranchers responsibility to protect their livestock by themselves. Whether that is sitting up nights with a rifle and protecting your cows by shooting the wolves or whatever comes to kill your money source, putting up electric fencing as far around your property or as high up as needed, locking them all up at night inside a structure where the wolves cannot get in, and again sitting up with a rifle protecting your money source.

Now with that being said, there are times when wildlife might need to be controlled, however, as humans put there little hands and demand for thousands of aminals to be killed off you are f&*%$ing with mother nature and the balance of our ecosystem.

When a pack is killed off they are pretty much done with. If the cubs are not found they will starve. It is not like they are hunted in a humane way. They are hunted by ground and air. The helicopter will follow and shot at them to keep them running so they are hunted til exhaustion then shot.

I live in Washington and this makes my stomach turn. Maybe our meat population such as cows, pigs, and sheep needs to be more controlled. Back in 2006 a report came out that livestock accounts for 18% of global greenhouse effect (if you believe in that), while 13.5% is responsible by transportation. Yes, this was back in 2006 and this not in the article. Just sayin, with many of you saying kill them off to protect the cows because the wolves are destroying the land blah, blah, blah.....huh? That is just asinine.

This just makes me too sick and too sad for words.

Arieus,

Sounds like you need to pull your head out son... Alittle more cheatin and stuff goin' on, on our side of the fence... This time around you need to rethink your stats and vote for the lessor of two EVILS, and that is the REPUBS...

They are not endangered anymore! If you look at the numbers, there are over 150 breeding pairs in Montana alone, which does not include all of the pups, yearlings, and loners. That's over 150 that had between 6-13 pups TWICE this year..They can breed 2 times a year. That's almost 900 (at 6 pups a litter) pups once a year. That's 1800 a year! There is no shortage of wolves. 8 wolves is not 12 or 13%.

Flunked math back in school, didn't you, tootz? That 1800 a year which you profess (and no doubt pulled out of the thin air between your ears is not NEARLY enough to replace the TENS of THOUSANDS that are senselessly slaughtered every year by selfish piggs with a 'shoot anything that moves' mentality.

Why don't you go look up some moose numbers and facts right now, then tell me how you will feel when the wolves have killed off all of Montana's moose.

I DID, and as a matter of fact, ding a ling - in every state that has MOOSE (including MINE) the biggest threat to their populations has been determined to be HUMAN ENCROACHMENT on their terrority, not wolves, NOT coyotes (which my town has PLENTY of, btw), or Mountain Lions, nor ANY OTHER animal. Kind of an INCONVENIENT truth, isn't it?

and its not all about food they will kill and eat only a small portion and go kill again just for fun

That describes YOU, not the wolves...
Here's for your education:
http : //isleroyalewolf.org/node/42

The wolves have a right to the cattle since they have none of their own. Everyone needs to do their fair share and the rancher has an obligation to the wolves. I am quite sure if the wolves had meat they would share it with the rancher.

There is a reason our past kin killed these animals.

And there's a reason they domesticated them, quite easily, into the domestic dog of today. Which is still, technically, the same biological species as the grey wolf.

Not to split hairs, but wolves weren't always historically considered a nuisance. They were domesticated, honored, worshiped, and feared at various points in human history. So perhaps a kneejerk reaction of "wolves=bad so they must be slaughtered" is a bit disingenuous and anti-intellectual.

JoeMan, I live on 10 acres of land. We have bears, mountain lions, foxes, coyotes, bobcats, an over-abundance of deer and squirrels, raccoons ... and I would WELCOME the grey wolf back into our part of the country. I also have grown up both in rural and suburban areas (you can't exactly be in the city when your "neighbor" across the street is a cow pasture and the barn has pigs). My CURRENT next-door neighbors include a cow pasture, we have sheep and goats as well as cows down the road. So I am not in ANY way a "city person". In fact ... I have NEVER lived in a city.

We let wolves repopulate and observe our meat prices rise in response to the wolves killing cattle. Do you like higher and higher priced food? Better get used to it with a rise in wolf population.

How much is an ever expanding wolf population worth?

Remember, ranching isn't free, like so many ill informed environmentalist seem to think.

Ranchers don't exactly make a fortune and herd losses to wild animals is a definite problem for the ranching community.

If I was a rancher and had wolves killing my herd, there would be many that 'disappeared' after doing so.

This is absolutely hilarious. No one on here is even educated. Maybe if you got off of your computer and got outside once in awhile, you might learn something! Too many people that don't know what REALLY goes on in our part of the land. Get a clue! And anyone who thinks they are going to wipe out all the wolves, you are so wrong it's ridiculous. There are so many wolves now, it would take years and years and years and NO regulations to wipe them out!! THAT IS NOT THE PLAN! It's called a management plan with a few tags given out to hunters. It's not like they can go shoot how ever many they want, whenever they want. It's regulated just like any other hunting season! learn something people! maybe talk to your local federal trapper, they might have an insight that you've never even thought about!

Why kill this majestic animal who naturaly pray for food to feed thier pack, if they become a problem and our wonderful government steps in to kill them why not tranquilize them and relocate to a remote wilderness were they can hunt and be left alone. The government spent a lot of taxpayers money for a helicopter and marksmen, instead they should have subsudized the rancher to put up protective fencing. One last comment: eliminate trophy hunting were a hunter kills not to eat but for a head trophy, this will give the wolves a better chance of survival!!

To all the parasite ranchers..."get off our land".

This is absolutely hilarious. No one on here is even educated.

I'm a veterinarian. 10+ years of higher education qualifies for the definition of "educated" in my book. Maybe you shouldn't throw insults around. It just devalues the content of your post. And:

There are so many wolves now, it would take years and years and years and NO regulations to wipe them out!!

I disagree with this statement. A) I suspect you have zero evidence that backs this claim up. Preferably an ecological study with population projections would be ideal. I'll wait. And B) It doesn't make much ecological sense anyways. Wolves are a comparatively K-selected species. A management plan is *probably* reasonable, but it would have to be carefully controlled and implemented, and any ecologist would tell you that.

Not a bad idea, but you probably wouldn't want wolves as your next door neighbors in more developed areas.

Killing the entire pack is the best way to handle this problem, now that they've developed a taste for livestock. If you only kill a few, it causes emotional distress on the remaining pack members and they will still teach their young to hunt cattle.

It's not like these creatures are endangered. They need to be managed so people can learn to live with them. If F&W allow them to "follow their nature," as so many people here who don't live anywhere near them seem to think is appropriate, then human nature will make short work of them as ranchers protect their livelihoods.

The only reason people are up in arms is because wolves are attractive animals everyone likens to their dog. Few would care if a flock of vultures were the cause of the problem.

AG I think the time as come for you to get a life in a city---it's evident by your words that you don't respect Nature and all that is within!

Why not place your cattle in the mist of a city park---open space as they then will get killed by gangbangers rather than ranchers trying to get a free ride.

You're wrong AG...the only reason they're being killed is because that ass rancher didn't keep his cattle safe. They did what is instinctive to them...they saw food and they hunted it.... he did what was instinctive to him...obviously....he was a lazy, selfish @!$%#.

tz: The rancher may have been the cause of the problem, but now that it exists, the most practical solution is doing exactly what F&W have planned. Perhaps the rancher needs to be fined to prevent this from happening again, meanwhile the wolf pack is still a problem that needs to be fixed.

It's not just nature.....Illinois introduced deer in Central Illinois. Scary to drive after dusk even on the interstates. The standard has now become that you will hit one at least once a year.

Ah yes, lets get our guns and kill. It's what we do best.

In Africa they use Anatolian Shepherd dogs to protect their cattle, sheep, etc from Lions and Tigers. Pretty sure they could handle the wolves too.

But of course we wouldn't want to do that when we can just get our guns and kill all the wolves.

Once again I am ashamed to be a part of this smutty little species called humans.

This is unconscionable and always man finds it easier to kill than relocate and save. This is exactly why species are being eliminated. These animals were here before us and just because ranchers don't want to be bothered to do yheir protection part it's time to get out the guns?? Whad good does it do to have species protection acts if they are not followed? Good old government bs. There is NO need to kill this pack and man is rapidly killing off man in the same manner. No respect for life. Easier to kill, kill than find a humane solution. Shame on all who approve this.

Neighborofthebeast---Well said. Unfortunately humankind's thirst for dominance also makes them think they can control something that didn't need to be controlled in the first place. I wonder if they gave anyone the chance to move these wolves to a sanctuary, or if that suggestion was even brought up?

Totally agree. If the ranchers want to use the public land then they need to be prepared to protect their own cattle. Property, not property and protection was the deal. Those poor wolves. Can't they just sedate and carry them off far to a different area, away from the livestock?

Just a great solution here, next kill all the bears then go to Africa to get all those killer lions, cheetah's and lepoards and next is India to clear out the tigers. Then we only have to worry about humans, but thats a different story. The wolves are on public land, not private land, so have the ranchers get their cattle back on their own property and stop freeloading on the taxpayers.

The safest thing for all involved would be to place a large picture of Sara Palin up, that will scare the wolves away !!

Alabama idea is good.

I wonder if wolves would like Texas boar?

I have to call F&W lazy also, many other states could have used a good wolf pack.

In my county, there is a bounty reward for killing coyotes. There is also a hunting season for deer, bear, etc., primarily to keep the populations under control. Managing wild animals for the well being and convenience of humans is nothing new.

Being an Oregonian and being educated on these animals, the following are truths:

1. These are a larger animal than were in the US years ago...these animals take down caribou and large moose. An elk or deer is not a challenge. Neither are your hunting dogs, pets, children or even adults who could not defend themselves.

2. Fact - A dept of our Government misused funds to implement these animals who are killers not the smaller gray wolf. They first started them in Yellowstone.

3. Cattle, sheep or other income producing livestock are not a challenge fenced, or not fenced!

4. They enjoy killing! Not just for food.

5. Another Government fraud and the states are picking up after them by stating they are endangered which they are not. Check with Canada, they kill them..also Idaho has come to their senses and hunt them.

I am with IndigoKid....

I am beyond tired of the government having control of our wildlife....these animals and their ancestors have been around far longer than any of us. I am beyond nauseated at the fact that individuals are enabled the right to perform aerial hunting on a species just because someone cannot control their own situations (Sara Palin all over again). This is appalling and I am mortified by this decision.

Do I feel remorse for the cattle than have been lost? Certainly! However I do not believe that KILLING is a productive means to an end. Does it really matter what I alone think? Of course not.........but maybe if there were enough individuals willing to stand up to the government and oppose these killings they could actually THINK about alternative solutions.

Right! Its public land! Him saying they should cull the entire pack is like saying a the city should exterinmate pigoens and squirrls from parks because they carry diease.

People feed the birds, birds show up. you put cattle (mm mm good) out in the open, they will be eaten.

Holy crap. I'm seeing so many people spouting off about preserving what is part of nature, and all I can think of is how nature creates its own tragedies: black plague, west nile virus, H1N1, etc., all designed to cull the herd. We go after these existing threats to mankind without rancour, yet we whine eloquently about the majesty of something that envisions us as a meal and has the capacity and the wherewithall to accomodate that dream.

The velociraptors T-rex used to roam the earth and, sadly, can only be found in museums, because nature made them extinct. Bummer. Wouldn't it be cool to see such a stately creature as those in your backyard?

I believe it’s the rancher that needs to be fixed! Our overpopulation is affecting wildlife, but humans insist it is the wildlife affecting humans. If its not wolves, its bears. We try to play on the emotions of people to justify slaughtering innocent animals. Its for the sake of our children, its for the sake of our livelihood. There are ways to deter wildlife that are safe and economical, without passing the cost onto the tax payers or consumers.

Ha HA HA!!! Fuuuunny! But oh so true felizita. :-)

My question to Neighbor of the beast ...... If we should not kill Gray Wolf then who keep them in track . Or we just let them take over ?

Typical human response. If a species competes for space or resources, even tho it's been there LONG before homo sapiens, then the knee-jerk reaction is to destroy it. We did it to the forests, the Amerindians, the buffalo, the wolf... modern civilization is a hungry beast that devours everything in its path. Only when every natural ecosystem has been modified or eliminated will we consider the Earth "tamed" and suitable for mankind. Thank you, "progress."

It is obvious that most people posting here are city people or people that clearly do not understand true wildlife. You can not simply move them. Other packs will attack them if you suddenly put them in a new area. This certain pack has become accustomed to hunting live stock. They teach their puppies to do it and those in turn teach theirs. That is their hunting method for this particular pack. It is best to kill the whole pack so that you stop this learned behavior. Although I agree that the one farmer is a dumb a$$, it doesnt change the fact that these wolves are now specifically hunting life stock. Only way to handle this is to kill them. It is sad, but must be done for the good of other wolves. Farmers will not discriminate between wolves that eat their live stock and don't. They will just assume all do and start killing them themselves if the government does not take care of it.

The concept of wolves not enjoying their lifestyle is as offensive as ranchers believing they have preferred status in federal wildlife zones because they graze there under federally subsidized grazing leases.

Wolves enjoy being wolves and take great glee in killing, but probably no where near as much as a domestic cattle rancher on federal land killing off wildlife to protect their domestic profit margins. Take the domestic animals out of federal lands.

On the other hand...why don't we all go hunting for Cow? There's food in them thar hills!!!

I go back to remembering Chief Seattle's words and killing this pack don't make sense to me. Why not just raise enough cattle to feed some of the wolves. That way we support our eco system. But, that probably makes too much sense.

I would disagree Pat with your warmongering. Ranchers graze their stock on PUBLIC lands for a pittance and then complain if the natural wildlife for that area preys upon their stock. If the deer the state "owns" runs into my car, the state doesn't reimburse me, but we're suppose to take care of the rancher's losses? Wolves attacking people? Who are you kidding? Provide some evidence before playing the part of the boy who cried "wolf".

I always thought we would protect endangered species? I know the rancher needs to protect his cattle but why not use fencing? Isn't federal law to protect endangered species?

Please help us stop the slaughter of these wolves who have every right to be there. One idiot rancher who is using public lands for his cattle is the problem. Call Christine Gregoire, our governor at 360-902-4111 and tell her to save the wolves. thank you from a Washingtonian

And who would raise them ? The government? Why don't you do it?

Catgoddess - Bzzz, wrong. Wolves don't mate for life and they don't mourn their dead. They are pack animals and the alpha dog gets his pick of any bitch he wants.

IndigoKid... Two quotes, from two of my favorite people:

"If it's true that our species is alone in the universe, then I'd have to say the universe aimed rather low and settled for very little." George Carlin

"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." Albert Einstein

They're doing something about the wolves. My question is what are they going to do about the rancher? He should no longer be allowed to lease public land. Why shouldn't he have to pay for the stupidity of his own actions? The wolves are paying with their lives.

dont think these wolves need to be culled its cruel&they are on the endangered list so leave them be they are only trying to survive and feed there young the same way we do we breed cattle and kill them for the meat to survive these cattle are not cheap to buy so if they got money for them put more money into security end of the day they are only doin what is in their nature they are a wild dog they only doing what they know best

DaveK... Did you actually proof-read that before you posted it? Geez, Louise. You consider yourself to be a "Conservative? (shudder).

Proud American... Amen to that. "Many people consider the things which government does for them as social progress, but they consider the things government for others as socialism." Earl Warren

RedWolf, why would you be embarrassed (mortified) based on what other people do? Why would you feel remorse for the loss of cattle unless you killed them? I am tired, beyond measure, of reading comments from people who barely have a grasp of the language they are commenting in. They don't understand the meanings of the words they use and they think because they are using a big or complicated word they sound more intelligent when, in fact, they sound less for using the word in a way that doesn't make sense. We have always manipulated wildlife. Get over it. To pretend this is something new, when humans have hunted as long as we have lived, is the epitome of stupidity.

Sure, have livestock in an area with predators and blame the predators for doing what comes natural..FREAKING BRILLIANT!!!

Hey man, I heard the Baja desert was a banging place to start a farm!! Morons...

@sam - it was satire.. duh..

The problem is that envirnmentalists are the biggest hypocrits in the world.. far worse than any Christian. You don't want the wolves harmed but you complain about the price of beef. You don't want oil to be used but there isn't an object in your life that was not influenced in some way by oil. You want everyone to live "clean" environmentally but don't want to give up your own car, or drive something that has more hazardous chemicals in it than any ten vehicles the rest of us drive. You want the earth to be free of humans but won't be the first to put a gun to your head and eliminate your CO2 waste from the planet.

My point is that if you were given exactly what you wanted you would hate it and wouldn't survive. You want the wolves so bad? GREAT.. take them! get them out of here. Nobody here wants them. I hope your apartment complex in your metro area allows pets..

Gotta love the dumbass farmer though... obviously been watching too much Glenn Beck. Yes, you're right, it's a conspiracy that you willingly chose not to take measures to protect your heard and public land. Yes, the entire endangered species program is designed to persecute you, poor little fatass farmer. Can we cull this dumbass after we're done with the pack?

Bring back the real America

Dude, your Amerika sounds a lot Germany in the 30's and 40's. Be careful what you wish for.

Yes repopulate the predators like large grey wolves and mountain lions and watch the attacks on humans go up.. Unarmed campers and hikers along with small children playing outside will become part of the food chain once again.. This is one of the reasons settlers killed so many of them.. Do you think the fish and wildlife folks will compensate families for missing children??

i have never read so much from so many people who have no idea what a wolf even is or the size of these creatures. They are killers of large animals: elk, moose, etc. A semi-tame cow is nothing to them but easy prey. Wolves will attack grown humans without any provocation. All they see is something to kill and eat the choice parts and leave the rest to rot. They do not a thought process of coming back tomorrow to eat the rest. Tomorrow they will just kill another animal, whatever large animal that comes into their habitat. If none appears then they will just keep looking until they find something to kill. It is their nature. They are not trainable or tameable.

If the cattle ranchers want the Wovles to stop killing their live stock then they should stop hunting the animals/prey that the wolves eat to survive on. The more we humans take the land and food from these beautiful creatures the more it's going to make them come into heavy populated areas to hunt for food. The Grey Wolf is already on the ENDANGERED SPEICES list and all you care about are some cattle? These wolves were here way before humans were placed on this Earth, and by killing off all the creatures that God placed on this Earth before us is criminal. We would have so many more animals to help sustain or Ecgo System if people would stop taking the habitats from these Endangered Speices that are so close to Extinction. Wake up people and do the math!! If you hunt and kill what Wolves prey on for food you are causing them to starive and the only way the no how to live is to hunt and kill for food, When you take their only means of food away from them they will find other food sources such as live stock it's just that simple. STOP KILLING THEIR FOOD TO FEED YOURSELVES AND YOUR FAMILY AND THEY WILL STOP KILLING YOUR LIVELY HOOD TO FEED THEMSELVES AND THEIR FAMILIES IT'S THAT SIMPLE PEOPLE.

and dumba$$ the rancher will (like the wolves) teach his offspring as he has been taught, I suppose. . .

my brother raised cattle in northern MN with wolves close by--literally sleeping on the sileage pile by the feedlot. no losses (20 years since the wolves showed up). but it is farm cattle raising (summer pastures, winter feedlot close to his own home). western ranges are I imagine another story. they need some cowboys to hang out with the dogies I guess.

We humans, due to our place in the pecking order, think we have the right to murder one species to protect a poor food source. Few societies that have been as capable of being self sustained but with our greed and consuming more than any nation in history. We threaten other countries on a daily basis. Our government has shed so much blood and killed far more in the name of imperialism. We over-fish, pollute the very water that is drinking water. We allow Big Oil to drill on public land, our land.

The lands were stolen from indigenous peoples and wolves were part of that history. We've done enough damage. Let nature figure one out.

When you have an unhappy tenant who doesn't like those living in his neighborhood, you break the lease and make them move. Why don't we let the people decide whether they want the wolves on our land or the rancher. It's time one or two people making bad decisions for the majority comes to an end.

My vote: The wolves.

I understand that the learned trait now needs to be gotten rid of, and the only way to do that is eradicate it this way. However, I think that farmer should be fined up the wahzoo for causing this mess in the first place. It's too bad we can't eradicate the "stupid" trait in people. :/

And for the person who asks about wolves "overrunning us" such as deer do - they are apex predators. That means their numbers are low to begin with relative to prey species. If nature was left up to its own devices, the prey always outnumbers the predator - that's nature's way of balance. This is called the carrying capacity, and it's smaller for predators because their food is not as prevalent as for an animal that is lower on the food chain. Humans are naturally not apex predators (so we have more babies more often), but because of our aggressive nature tied in with a large brain that can create tools (as well as a society that takes care of our basic needs so we spend time doing other things, like having babies and raising them), we have overrun the planet. Take an Ecology course - it's all pretty neat stuff and you get an understanding and appreciation for nature, no matter where you live.

re: the attacking humans without provocation--there are EXTREMELY few reports of wolf attacks on humans. off hand, I will bet you anything there are more people killed by domestic hogs than by wild wolves.

NUUUOOOOOOOO!!!!!

"I was on foodstamps and welfare. Did anyone help me out? No!" - The Rancher's little brother.

Amanda:

The "trait" problem could be immediately solved with a dog pack. They use them all the time in Europe to keep the wolves at bay. Us Americans are very slow learners.

The Timber Wolf here in Minnesota just came off of the endangered list about a year or so back, and now the farmer and rancher are complaining that the wolves are taking their livestock... hunter are whining the wolves are taking too many deer (never mind all of the complaining about the deer population here)... so now there are scheduled wolf hunts... AND they want to hunt them using dogs and by setting traps. I believe it should be fair, you want to hunt a wolf... use only your knife, see how many people apply for a license.

Oh yeah... not really sure, but I think it's "Grey Wolves"... not gray.

I live nearby and most people here are against the wolves. I think they are crazy as I rather enjoy seeing them. It puts the wild back in the wild. My family has a few cattle and I have never heard them complain about the wolves. The most vocal group in my opinion is the hunters. Most of them are furious at what they term the decimation of the elk herds. I like to hunt and I agree that the numbers have declined but honestly I still enjoy hunting even if my success rate has fallen in recent years. It is fun to be out there and compete for a resource in a beautiful area. This rancher does come off as disturbed though.

On top of that, "once a pack becomes habituated to eating livestock, moving them only moves the conflict" since wolf territories are larger than any wilderness area the state could ship them to, he said.

thats a important part of the issue. however, it doesnt even have to be habitual, they hunt, and feed.

the rancher using public land, any rancher, normally will do so because of other than reasons some might think. could be they have a payment arrangement with the gov to do so. could be they dont have enough land to maintain the herd, and this option was made available prior to the wolf restoration effort.

being he IS able to USE this land, he (the rancher) has to abide by the laws of the government for that area, mostly including firearm use (hunting/protection from natural wild life), otherwise he will lose more than a grazing right/privilage. basically this means unless laws are changed, he can not kill, by any means any animial under any type of protection by the DNR, and has to follow their rules and regs above all else. what some are suggesting, the rancher(s) should let their cattle starve.

Being this same rancher were to decide NOT to use public land, it would be meaningless, because the wolves would then come onto the ranchers property. Making the argument, basically mute. the wolves got a taste for beef, and easy prey, why would they stop short because of land rights, and how much $ would it then cost this same rancher, to erect about a 6-8 ft tall fence to surround his property? then toss in the issue, if he were to run out of cattle for these animals, how long would it take them to turn to waiting for you or a member of your family to be caught offgaurd as their prey?

if you think this is syfy, think again.

guessing not many of you ever/remember having a large dog, that produced a litter. this number ranges from 1-14 pups, and i have seen 21 out of one litter, altho 14 survived to full term (dog). this is an easy breed of animal to repopulate, if you give them a proper chance to do so. you can cry "Sara Palin" till your lips turn blue for killing such a YES beautiful animal... but doing so with little to absolutly NO UNDERSTANDING what-so-ever, is plain ignorance in your part, and ignoring the eco-system as well. these animals need to hunt and eat. if you think they will survive just fine on squirrel and possum, you are wrong. they will hunt themselves into starvation if given the chance. they also unllike most predators, hunt for sport.

take some time to think about all of that....

heck even the resource managment for these animals agree, put them down... but point a finger at everyone but themselves for introducing them to this area, without thinking of the possible results of doing so. mostly on behalf of the NObama admin. (speaking of, if this is such a big deal, where is his big mouth on this?)

F*U*C*K you whoever kills these beautiful animals. Get a new hobby.

What about the animals abused by HUMANS where we slaughter millions of cows and chickens a year.. think about that before you use some lame excuse of cattle being killed by wolves.. hardly a number

The "trait" problem could be immediately solved with a dog pack. They use them all the time in Europe to keep the wolves at bay. Us Americans are very slow learners.

Dogs don't work with these wolfs. These wolves are some of the largest species of wolves on the planet. The US gov also illegally used funds from other programs and lied to transplant these wolfs which are the Canadian Grey Wolf and is a different species then we still had in the US. Yes we still had wolves before these were transplanted into Yellowstone years back. These wolves are not a native species.

These wolfs are no where near extiinction as there are hundreds of thousands if not millions in Canada. The other problem is that these wolfs are infected with Echinococcosis granulosus, which is now being transmitted to the elk, deer, moose and humans.

Echinococcosis granulosus tapeworm was published nearly 40 years ago. Back then we had many readers in Alaska and northern Canada where the cysts were present in moose and caribou and articles and studies included statistics on the number of reported many human deaths from these cysts over a 50-year period. These wolfs have also almost deccimated the Nothern Caribou herd due to Echinococcosis granulosus cysts infecting the caribou's liver and lungs. Because of this the caribou lost the endurance to to keep moving(being nomadic) as they once were.

Oh yeah you idiots also think that this rancher gets free federal grazing. Do you have any idea how much money comes from these ranchers to the states? Well here is a little info for you...

What the State of Washington derives from a rancher taking advantage of that privilege:

The DNR is responsible for the management of about 5 million acres of public lands in the

state, 2 million acres of forest lands, and about 1 million acres of agricultural and grazing

lands and other properties. The majority of state grazing lands are within counties in the

Department's northeast and southeast regions. These lands generate income to support school

construction, colleges, counties, state institutions and other beneficiaries. State trust lands are

managed for multiple uses including timber, agriculture, grazing, commercial real estate,

recreation, and for potential conservation value.

According to the state's report in 2005 it netted $339,809,331 from their grazing program.

Grazing on Federal land under the Taylor Grazing Act:

Distribution of Grazing Receipts: Receipts from grazing on section 3 lands are distributed three ways: 50% goes to range betterment projects, 37½% remains in the US Treasury, and 12½% is returned to the state. In Wyoming, the 12% is administered by thegrazing advisory boards established under Wyoming Statutes 9-571 and 9-572.

Distribution of Grazing Receipts: The receipts from grazing on section 15 public lands are distributed two ways: 50% goes to range betterment projects and 50% is returned to the state. In Wyoming, the portion returned to the state is distributed back to the counties in which it originated under state statute 9-570.

The Federal grazing fee for 2010 will be $1.35 per animal unit month (AUM) for public lands administered by the Bureau of Land Management and $1.35 per head month (HM) for lands managed by the Forest Service.

In 2010 for Washington it was a total of 32,976 AUMs authorized. In 2012 the fee remains the same. If the permit holder let's someone else graze under his lease their is $3.73 AUM surcharge, and if it is unauthorized then it is $12.00 per AUM.

Okay, carry on with the privileges & pennies for grazing.

BTW the leases and permits are for 10 years. Was there a pack there when the rancher signed the lease?

NO

shouldn't grazing permits for public lands, which are contracts, stipulate requirements to cooperate fully with policies regarding wildlife?

if you think they will survive just fine on squirrel and possum, you are wrong.

Maybe if we maintained a more balanced ecosystem by stopping the hunters from their sport, the larger game such as deer and elk would proliferate and it wouldn't be necessary for the wolves to bother with the cattle.

Nature has been around alot longer than mankind and will take care of itself, until humans screw it up with their interference.

You people talking about numbers and policies..yadda yadda..its all bull***T. HERE"S A SOLUTION release LIVESTOCK back into the wild so wolves will have prey..otherwise don't be a jackass when your own livestock is killed...

FOR THE TONS OF FOOD WASTED EACH YEAR TELL ME THE DIFFERENCE?

cattle, on public land, are legitimate prey. keep your cattle on your ranch. (sheep, too)

First thread was collapsed so here we go again.

Wolves are endangered and should be relocated rather than killed.

If ranchers used Great Pyrenees guard dogs, there would be no losses to predators. It is one of the oldest breeds and has been protecting livestock for thousands of years.

Ed:

If ranchers used Great Pyrenees guard dogs, there would be no losses to predators. It is one of the oldest breeds and has been protecting livestock for thousands of years.

Our government and the rancher have minimal brain capacity to come up with a solution other than "we'll just annihilate the problem".

Where are the environmental protection groups?

fishman,

The Great Pyrenees has been used with great success in Alberta. Losses from predation dropped to zero on ranched that had packs of Pyrs. The bond to their herd when they are puppies and from then on nothing stops them from protecting their herd. They are fast and larger than the largest wolf. Wolves are not a problem for a pack of Pyrs. They will take on all predators. Four Pyrs killed a Grizzley and lost only one of their own. You can't say 'Dogs don't work' until you have tried the Great Pyrenees on your team.

The current population of wolves in Canada is estimated to be 52,000-60,000.

They are endangered, their population is only 2% of what it used to be.

The farmer has just as much blame in this matter as F&W, but most people here want to focus on this one event and isolate it from the broader picture of the world we live in at present. While I appreciate the animal lovers on this thread speaking out against man's tendency to kill what it can't understand, I also know that most of you prefer to go to a local grocery store to buy the food on which you survive. Killing off a pack is perhaps not the most ideal solution, but then most farmers argue that letting humans starve is equally inhumane. This is not a linear argument in the sense of direct cause and effect, but both sides can argue about who is doing the "right" thing with a certain degree of confidence.

I live on a farm that raises hogs and cattle, plus a few chickens. I can tell you that I don't hunt much and I also consider myself an animal lover. In reality killing an animal for any reason in not enjoyable, and modern game hunters that kill for "sport" really bug the hell out of me. However, in my experience, many of those people are wealthy city or suburb dwellers that need a head to put on their wall to show they still maintain enough testosterone and masculinity to be sufficiently capable of calling themselves "men." I've killed my fair share of animals, both domesticated and in the wild, but also a few dogs that were family pets. It's unbelievably difficult to kill something that you love at close range, but in nature things live an they die, so we should all respect that life by wasting none of it. We treat humans differently than animals, as we usually lock up the violent ones instead of putting them down, because we tend to view ourselves as different or deserving of greater rights. We often confuse man's world and nature as being two separate worlds, but indeed man has only sheltered itself from the harshest elements of the same place, perpetuating a belief that we're different.

In my estimate, we've been wronging the creatures of this planet for generations and we continue that trend by wrecking the environment around us each day with industrial scale pollution. Just be careful where you place the blame for this activity, as it's not usually the farmers of the world that do the most harm, but the industries built by and for the greediest among us. When you kill and grow your own food, then you've got some credibility in this argument, but if you go to your local grocer for sustenance, be mindful someone like me is out there doing the dirty work so your family can eat. In the end, mother nature always wins, and humans are just the latest species to grow too large for this planet to handle, and we'll surely be paid back in-full the amount of devastation we've caused to our great keeper.

Boycott all Washington State products and all beef!

ahhhh-wooooo ahhh-wooooo..... the lone wolf cry.

Understandable its bad for them to attack ranchers live stock..but its survival to them..same as us humans in a way. Wish some type of wild-life fund could help feed them instead of being put to death!

The wolves are hungry. Wouldn't we all eat what is available to us if we were hungry in the wild? How are we eliminating the food sources? At the North Pole the Polar bears have resorted to cannibalism in some cases. Why is it that humans blame the animals? If lived in a more natural way we would be able to provide for the needs of living beings.

Pat on your reply #2.15

4. They enjoy killing! Not just for food.

Pot calling the kettle black?

number of death by Wolves per year is .1..1 death every ten years on average. In most cases an individual wolf (not a pack) has attacked a person/s walking or hiking with their pet dog which the wolf saw as prey, and the human tried to defend their pet(which I totally understand)...Source..Google search "Number of human deaths by Wolves in North America 1900-2011"..Almost half(42-47% source dependent) of the attacks was by a wolf that was sick or injured.

Books-3255666

i have never read so much from so many people who have no idea what a wolf even is or the size of these creatures. They are killers of large animals: elk, moose, etc. A semi-tame cow is nothing to them but easy prey. Wolves will attack grown humans without any provocation. All they see is something to kill and eat the choice parts and leave the rest to rot. They do not a thought process of coming back tomorrow to eat the rest. Tomorrow they will just kill another animal, whatever large animal that comes into their habitat. If none appears then they will just keep looking until they find something to kill. It is their nature. They are not trainable or tameable.

That is the BIGGEST BUNCH OF BULL@!$%# I have ever heard. Nothing but a @!$%#ing LIE! I have been around wolves in the wild and Have Never been attacked. Try again and this time try and get the @!$%#ing FACTS CORRECT.. I would Love to see you back that up Books Bet you can't, Nothing but a lair

Which was around longer the Wolf or the human in that area? Who took over the others home?

I remember fifty-eight years ago... I was seven years old..I took pride getting a Wolf badge in the cub scouts..it stands for being keen, smart, great senses and a way to survive...other pride ways in it also..and you get a gold or silver arrow to go under that Wolf badge.... I got them all and became a eagle scout as I got older.

Beautiful post, Sleuth.

I would like to know if the conservation people have looked into just how the cattle have met their demise. I don't want to accuse any one but is it possible that someone or something else is responsible for the deaths of the cattle. The ranchers have always felt they are entitled to the water and grazing land I mean it would not be a long shot (literally) to bring this all on the wolves. I think the wolves as well as wild horses should be allowed to roam free and the rancher should be made to use what ever means it takes to keep his OWN cattle safe or he should lose his FREE PASS. His free pass comes out of my taxes just like everyone else's. We all pay to mantain and keep land for ALL to use not just a few. Also why is it they must use goverenment money with a helicopter to gun down these wolves it is just another waste of tax dollars. KEEP THE WOLVES in nature where they belong STOP THE SLAUGHTER. It is heart breacking to introduce them into the wild only to kill them... JUST PLAIN STUPID...

LOL I love seeing all these anonymous posts by the same person about these wolves being massive and man-eaters lol Wolves don't attack people, period. We don't live in the 1940s where your stupid folktales work. It's simple enough to look up recorded attacks now -- and, shock! There are none. These wolves are endangered.

I'm tired of so many stupid people with their ridiculous conspiracy theories. Just go out an educate yourself. It's not that hard. Read a book or something rather than spreading lies.

The grey wolf is NOT an endangered species-there are viable populations in Alaska,Idaho,Montana,Wyoming,Minnesota,the U.P.of Michigan,Maine, and a large part of Canada.

The grey wolf in the 3 state greater Yellowstone area was supposed to be removed from ESA protection when the numbers reached 300 animals,or 30 breeding pairs under the '95 agreement when the grey wolf was re-introduced.

After over a decade of lawsuits by environmental and animal rights groups-and the population rising far above 30 breeding pairs,or 300 animals-a bunch of so-called experts making their living from gov't. grants to study wolves,lawyers for animal rights/enviro. groups making careers out of suing the USWFWS and getting paid by our tax dollars for doing so-a federal judge trying to legislate from the bench- (Molloy)-finally,after an act of congress-the states finally get to manage their own wildlife.

Wolf popultions are far,far above the original numbers to be removed from ESA protection-

Now that several elk herds have been decimated by the wolves-which were extirpated for a reason-humans and wolves can not co-exist in the same area-the states are simply attempting to manage ALL wildlife and keep a balance-wolves can not just be re-introduced into an ecosystem-the prey base is no longer there-HUMANS live in the areas!

The states with grey wolves need to manage them as they do all wildlife in the states-hunting is an effective mangement tool,has been succesfully used for over 100 years to maintan healthy game populations-hunters have paid more for wildlife conservation just from the 11% excise tax we pay on our gear (Pittman-Robertson act)-than all the enviro-animal rights groups combined have ever paid-add all the national,state and local hunting groups-like the National wild Turkey Federation,Ducks Unlimited-Pheasants Forever,the Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation,Whitetails Unlimited, and many,many more-do some rersearch-you will discover that it is hunters who have paid to keep our wildlife populations healthy-it is huntwers who paid for the National Wildlife Refuge system.

I have seen firsthand the fiasco that was/is wolf re-introduction-(NW Montana)yes wolves kill without eating what they kill-watch wolves rip a calf out of a pregnant cow elk-leaving both to die-without eating a single bite-watch wolves kill 20-30 sheep that were in an enclosed pen-eating none of them,watch wolves kill deer and just leave them to rot-watch wolves kill cow-calf pairs while farmers watch-because they can not legally protect their animals from the wolves-THAT is why congress decdied to end the never-ending stream of lawsuits over wolves,and return the management of wolves to the state wildlife agencies-where it belongs.

Hunting is an effective means of managing wolf populations,it raises money for the states through license and tag sales,and is actually beter for the long term health of the wolf population-as wolves become more wary of humans when they are hunted.

The wolves are here to stay-so is the hunting of wolves-get over it-99% of those supporting wolves do not live in areas where they have been re-introduced-take as many as you want from NW Montana/NE Idaho-take a pack in Central park,take a pack in Chicago-another in L.A.-maybe they can use the gang-bangers as a prey base.-or they can eat all the dumb-assed breeds of small dogs that morons have come up with lately,along with all the joggers in the cities,other household pets,small children at bus stops.

Wolves are NOT cute little furry puppies-they are killing machines-all you people who live in the cities,on both coasts and support wolves-take a pack in your neighborhood-take two packs.

Animal rights advocates are always good for a laugh.

I love the tired "they were here before us" mantra. Guess what? So were dinosaurs. Would you like them back?

I understand that you people (animal rights advocates) are almost exclusively vegetarians, so you couldn't care less about the viability of cattle ranches, but most of us are omnivores, as is our nature, so get a grip.

Yes, repopulate the wolves. I have no problem with that. But, control them, when they become a hazard, as man has always done.

Perhaps Pat didn't read the whole article which clearly states:

"Gray wolves are listed as endangered under state law because they were nearly wiped out a century ago by settlers."

Bev... I once took out a 10 point buck, here in Wisconsin, with the nose of my Pontiac. It was not pretty. It's back was broken and the county sheriff had to take him out with a couple of shots from a magnum. I felt worse for the deer than I did for my car, for sure. The iron could be fixed, but that poor, beatiful creature could not.

The farmer has just as much blame in this matter as F&W, but most people here want to focus on this one event and isolate it from the broader picture of the world we live in at present. While I appreciate the animal lovers on this thread speaking out against man's tendency to kill what it can't understand, I also know that most of you prefer to go to a local grocery store to buy the food on which you survive. Killing off a pack is perhaps not the most ideal solution, but then most farmers argue that letting humans starve is equally inhumane. This is not a linear argument in the sense of direct cause and effect, but both sides can argue about who is doing the "right" thing with a certain degree of confidence.

I live on a farm that raises hogs and cattle, plus a few chickens. I can tell you that I don't hunt much and I also consider myself an animal lover. In reality killing an animal for any reason in not enjoyable, and modern game hunters that kill for "sport" really bug the hell out of me. However, in my experience, many of those people are wealthy city or suburb dwellers that need a head to put on their wall to show they still maintain enough testosterone and masculinity to be sufficiently capable of calling themselves "men." I've killed my fair share of animals, both domesticated and in the wild, but also a few dogs that were family pets. It's unbelievably difficult to kill something that you love at close range, but in nature things live an they die, so we should all respect that life by wasting none of it. We treat humans differently than animals, as we usually lock up the violent ones instead of putting them down, because we tend to view ourselves as different or deserving of greater rights. We often confuse man's world and nature as being two separate worlds, but indeed man has only sheltered itself from the harshest elements of the same place, perpetuating a belief that we're different.

In my estimate, we've been wronging the creatures of this planet for generations and we continue that trend by wrecking the environment around us each day with industrial scale pollution. Just be careful where you place the blame for this activity, as it's not usually the farmers of the world that do the most harm, but the industries built by and for the greediest among us. When you kill and grow your own food, then you've got some credibility in this argument, but if you go to your local grocer for sustenance, be mindful someone like me is out there doing the dirty work so your family can eat. In the end, mother nature always wins, and humans are just the latest species to grow too large for this planet to handle, and we'll surely be paid back in-full the amount of devastation we've caused to our great keeper.

Hmmm... Others have mentioned that maybe this rancher needs to be culled. As in, maybe he should "pack up his sh*t and git."

Anyone who grazes animals on public lands KNOWS THE RISKS - of predation and rustlers. This rancher receives a $stipend$ from the government for each animal harvested by the wolves. So, in real terms, he is not suffering too much financially over the loss of his cattle.

Others pointed out that there are "organic" methods to deter the wolves. Wolves do not like BIG DOGS, or humans, and have a tendency to stay away from both.

I believe every attempt should be made to deter the wolves, to see if that works. Shooting them should be the absolute last resort...

Just like in South Dakota the GF&P decimated the mountain lion population with one reason being they were killing all the deer. Then in the same breath, they said that wasting disease has taken thousands of deer and licenses for deer hunting this year are being revoked because of the loss of the deer population because of the disease. Yes, we may have need to cull some lions, but not the hundreds in a few years they permitted. I believe it was approx. 50 female lion licenses and 20 males for the taking last year. Up by at least 20 from the first few yrs. of the hunting. (I admit the numbers I have stated may be off but not by much.) They look real nice I hear on the floor by the fire or on the wall or 'stuffed.' Now, we rarely hear of a lion sighting and the deer population which could have been and was controlled in part by the lions, of which the GF&P's count of them was never properly estimated and many feel was terribly over estimated, is never mentioned now. They were basically wiped out. They (lions) have a hundred mile roaming area at least. And you still risk hitting a deer every time you get in your car here. Females with small kits were killed. Therefore the kits perish if they can't find them for a zoo. Ron, I am not a vegetarian, nor an animal rights 'nut' that I feel you imply all advocates are. If I am wrong about that, I do, truly apologize to you. I am all for proper balance in nature. Often man has to intervene, but we must do it with proper, thought out, common sense using all options available. Including what measures the landowner can carry out to help prevent what happened with these wolves. Measures are available for them to help protect their livestock. Donkeys and mules are great protectors of sheep and cows. Predators are out there. Natural ones along with the men that take cattle and horses in the night as WhistleBerries mentioned. And I dare say men steal more than the natural predators do every year. It happened to me with my horses-gone. Fence cut, full moon night right out of my corral 400 yards from my bedroom. Didn't hear a thing as they actually took my dog too. Bastards. But did I get the chance to shoot or hang them? No. Never caught them or found my horses. the dog found his way home thank goodness. Why re-introduce wolves only to kill them all over again? It was a given to happen. Slueth23, my goodness, your wisdom is beyond measure and I fully understand what you say and IMHO, you are right. WhistleBerries, also correct IMHO in the absolute last resort.

The rancher's "property" is not the land. It is the cattle which legally graze on public land. Just as you spend all summer sunning yourself in a public park. Maybe that would be a great place for a wolf pack. Manhattan metrosexuals, coast to coast.

Maybe the rancher then needs to take his "property" off of public land and get his own land to graze them. Just like I can't take over a public park and start shooting birds in it for messing up my car, this rancher shouldn't be able to demand that the wild animals that inhabit the public lands on which he grazes his "property" be destroyed. I thought all of you Repugs and Tea Baggers were against people being able to use public benefits? Isn't this rancher using public lands for his private benefit? How is that different from someone on foodstamps using public moneys for to meet his/her private food needs? Which is it? Do you want big government or not?

"The rancher here is a beneficiary of public subsidy" Name a farmer/rancher that isn't a beneficiary of public subsidy. Welfare at its finest.

You people act like public grazing is free. I can assure you that this rancher PAYS for a grazing lease for his property, the CATTLE, to be on that land. He's at the gov't trough? He's PAYING FOR the gov't trough! Not only is he paying for the gov't trough, he is raising meat that FEEDS US!

I also love how those who live in the city and have NO earthly clue what it is like to deal with the predation from these animals as a part of daily life is like seem to know so much about living with wolves. Perhaps we should "reintroduce" them in YOUR backyard? Perhaps they should snack on YOUR pets and make YOU fearful for the safety of your small children?

As a Wyoming citizen, we also face issues regarding wolves - only one issue is the decimation of the Yellowstone elk herds. Try talking to forest service workers who work the elk winter feeding grounds and ask them about these lovely creatures that hunt for sport, take down an elk, eat its tongue out of its head or a couple pounds off the haunches and then let them go to die a slow painful death. Or how about the cow elk that are taken down and their bellies ripped open and their wriggling fetuses ripped from the womb and then the baby eaten alive? Have you even been out on horseback to check fence and found an eviscerated calf up and walking on it's own intestines trailing from its belly? No? Really? Well, until you experience any of these things that are the result of more government telling us what's best for us, please keep your high and mighty opinions to your uninformed selves.

I don't want to see wolves eradicated any more than anyone else does - but if we are to coexist with them, then management is a necessity - and when a pack becomes a nuisance steps have to be taken. I'm not really sure exactly WHAT further steps ranchers and farmers are supposed to take in order to keep their stock safe from predators when you have wolf packs that will kill 70 sheep in a night for sport and then leave them lay to rot. Don't believe the lie that they only take down the weak, the sick, the old. It's a load of crap.

The ability of ranchers to graze their cattle on public land for next to nothing is one of reasons beef is affordable in this country. Personally I think beef is a too resource-intensive protein to feed a country on and we should eat animals that can be raised more efficiently instead, but if you like steak, then you should support ranching on public lands.

Some people want to take everything for themselves, the farm animals and the wild animals. Well gues what? It doesn't work anymore. Let the wolves take care of the wild herds of deer, moose, elk, etc. We humans don't need to hunt anymore...we have ranchers like this guy to feed us. Get him off of public land though, quit the subsidies, and make him take non-lethal measures to protect his own herd. And then we can get rid of the guns and stop killing eachother too, since the hunting excuse will be history.

Wouldn't it be nice?

Yeah, tell that to Romney.......this rancher should keep his cattle safe by whatever means were available to him....grazing on public land is a privilege! If he's not willing to do what he was advised to do, why do the wolves have to suffer for it? He sounds like one of those gun-toting, tea party, RWNJ's.....just my opinion.

"Affordable Beef" is $7.99/lb at our MI market. I'm eating affordable chicken. $1.99/lb and no wolf shooting. I suggest others do the same.

And Tina, "Co-existing" with wolves and "managing" them is killing them, isn't it? Wolves take down pregnant cows & go for the fetuses because that's where the nutrients are. They take down unprotected herds because they're UNPROTECTED. Everyone learns to hunt & kill that way. Your bad for not protecting your herd. Nature ain't always pretty, but you should know that; I visited WY last year, and it was beautiful, vast and mostly empty - except for cattle, which were everywhere.

For those of you above who say that we should have wolves in ALL our backyards.....I live in a city, a pretty good-sized one at that....and we have coyotes that come into our neighborhoods. We've learned a few things; i.e., (1) don't take your dogs out without their being on a leash; (2) don't let your cats roam the neighborhoods at night....keep them in the house if you want to have them around long; and (3) don't let your dogs or other animals out alone, even during the day, without some type of supervision or within a fenced yard. We've learned to adapt to the coyote situation here in Southern California....we don't have to go out and kill entire packs; we've just learned to live smart!

.

I can't say that I endorse the idea of killing these wolves. But, I am not sure this rancher is getting a subsidy, per se. I think he said he had leased the public land in order to graze his cattle there. This would be similar to the US gov granting timber leases for tree cutters to come in and collect trees which is done all the time. When you lease something you are paying for it so you do have some rights to enjoy it. That said, any lease can include restrictiosn and requirements. My question is if there are ways to keep cattle and wolves apart (that don't result in killing a whole pack), why not include those measures as part of the lease. If the farmers don't abide by the rules, the lease is broken and out he goes.

Affordable Beef" is $7.99/lb at our MI market. I'm eating affordable chicken. $1.99/lb and no wolf shooting. I suggest others do the same.

No worries my friend I read a article a few months ago that was saying chicken and beef will be doubling within two yrs, due to all the new livestock comfort laws, so enjoy it while you still can afford it..

This is a sad state of affairs. A bull headed rancher leases Public Land for next to nothing, does nothing to help keep the Wolves away from his cattle & now they have to be Killed for his Ignorance. If the Ranchers won't help with the reintroduction take them, The Ranchers, off Public Land.

What IDIOT would literally say the farmer should be fined??? Because the wolves attacked HIS cattle?! Everyone bashing on this "farmer/rancher" is an UTTER MORON!!!! This is "Washington Officials" decision... And I don't hear anyone bashing on them!

Not because their name are wolf, A near family of man's best friend dog they are not tamed and trained as dogs are. Dogs love steak raw, rare, welldone. Wolf love it raw and warm so Isay how will they survive without livestocks? Then they will start going after humans, adults. children, What's the delay ? Start wiping them all off we cannot eat them, so get rid of these vampires on four legs. They're of no profits in real life. send some to Russia's wild life.

Didi, come on up to North Idaho and Western Montana and you can see the difference for yourself in a coyote and a wolf (we have both). As far as we are concerned the gray wolf is an illegal immigrant and should be sent back to Canada where came from. We didn't ask people "from the city" to relocate wolves here to decimate the elk, deer and moose (along with murdering our pets) and I wouldn't presume to tell you how to handle your coyote situation in the city.

I think that this is horrible!!!! Our Park Lands belong to us all and for too long we have allowed private interests (i.e. loggers and ranchers) to profit at the expense of our flora and fauna. The parks service allows these private inteersts to profit by giving them severely lower rates than the open market and allowing them to make their own rules and police themselves. The rancher says he has a lease? It is the parks service responsibility to write a lease in a way that protects the flora and fauna. The lease should include/require that the rancher implement any means dictated by the parks service to discourage the wolves and the contract should state that if they want the cheap rates of grazing in the parks, to factor in loss from preditors. I would bet that his loss does not compare to what he would have to pay to graze on private lands. Protect our Parks and wildlife and stop kneeling to private interests.

What the State of Washington derives from a rancher taking advantage of that privilege:

The DNR is responsible for the management of about 5 million acres of public lands in the
state, 2 million acres of forest lands, and about 1 million acres of agricultural and grazing
lands and other properties. The majority of state grazing lands are within counties in the
Department's northeast and southeast regions. These lands generate income to support school
construction, colleges, counties, state institutions and other beneficiaries. State trust lands are
managed for multiple uses including timber, agriculture, grazing, commercial real estate,
recreation, and for potential conservation value.

According to the state's report in 2005 it netted $339,809,331 from their grazing program.

http://www.cnrhome.uidaho.edu/documents/finalJLARC.pdf?pid=104259&doc=1

Grazing on Federal land under the Taylor Grazing Act:

Distribution of Grazing Receipts: Receipts from grazing on section 3 lands are distributed three ways: 50% goes to range betterment projects, 37½% remains in the US Treasury, and 12½% is returned to the state. In Wyoming, the 12% is administered by thegrazing advisory boards established under Wyoming Statutes 9-571 and 9-572.

Distribution of Grazing Receipts: The receipts from grazing on section 15 public lands are distributed two ways: 50% goes to range betterment projects and 50% is returned to the state. In Wyoming, the portion returned to the state is distributed back to the counties in which it originated under state statute 9-570.

The Federal grazing fee for 2010 will be $1.35 per animal unit month (AUM) for public lands administered by the Bureau of Land Management and $1.35 per head month (HM) for lands managed by the Forest Service.

In 2010 for Washington it was a total of 32,976 AUMs authorized. In 2012 the fee remains the same. If the permit holder let's someone else graze under his lease their is $3.73 AUM surcharge, and if it is unauthorized then it is $12.00 per AUM.

Okay, carry on with the privileges & pennies for grazing.

BTW the leases and permits are for 10 years. Was there a pack there when the rancher signed the lease?

Okay, I don't usually get involved in these comments and generally read them and leave them at that BUT in this case I thought I would add my own comments. The Rancher is paying for his use of Public Land, his cattle are his private herd. Dude, get a life and get some protection. A group of Great Pyrenees WILL protect a flock of anything - they have driven off wolves, bears, panthers you get the picture. Beef is NOT cheap thanks to many subsidies but our cattle mostly lead horrible lives in Feed lots so I'm glad he has pasture but NOT at the expense of the wild life or the taxpayer. Do you know he is probably shooting the deer, elk, moose panther, coyotes, fox and even rabbits on that land? The deer eat the grazing grounds, coyotes and fox prey on the dead, young, sick and weak as well and the rabbits create burrows that can break cattles legs. SO, maybe the rancher should move to or seek to purchase this land. We have tried for years to control our environment here. In NY where I came from recently (near the Adirondack State Park) there were moose FINALLY moving back into the area. Well when one got to close to humankind they were moved back to a wilderness area. Several times those moose died from mishandling by humans. I happen to have farmed, and had my own animals. I am also a hunting and fishing women. I prefer to hunt with a bow myself. We have a huge problem with Coyotes in upstate NY why can't we ship a few of those younger pack wolves to NY? They would help to eradicate the problem with coyotes since they don't get along. There are plenty of other choices. Packs splinter every year to stay healthy only the alpha and beta stay the same. As for the cubs - your math in the amount of wolves is nice but not sound. Only the Alpha pair mate, the uncles and aunties stay to babysit while the "major" players in a pack hunt. Many die from starvation, accidents (no vets out there....)drowning, panthers, hooves from moose and other prey, other pack instinct. So I say let the Rancher get better protection, leave the younger pack alone, hunt out the older alphas who direct the rest of the pack. Re-settle the rest after moving them to an area where they can re-acclimate (and trust me they will). It is in our nature to control everything around us to our satisfaction and cry everytime we see an animal dead or dying but life is life and we all revolve around living and dying. Don't tell me none of you have never seen or heard an animal butchered it is sad, gross and happens everyday so we (me included) can have some chicken, steak or whatever. I agree that when a pack has the taste for killing and it does happen that they should be put down but a few cattle on public land, unprotected when winter is getting ready to start???? I woder how many of those killed might have been coyotes or bears???? Bears have a lovely taste for beef too.

Wake up and understand that the rancher pays the goverment for his cattle to be on the land and also pays taxes for this state in which if you dont live here "no comment". Also since your all so chipper to jump to conclusions about the dam cattle rancher just to save a pack of wolves, please realize that the wolves will take out the population of the elk and deer in this state. Its just another way for the game department to collect tax money for managing another animal when they cant even manage the ones they already have. who do they ask for help from to feed the elk in the winter when they run out of feed here in washington? The ranchers that have the hay!!! They also give out damage permits to the farmers to kill the elk that damage the trees. Oh and why we are on the subject the dam tree huggers that didnt want to log the forest because of a spotted owl? Guess what the dam forests here burt to the grownd this summer and the poor little owl has no home and we will buy our lumber from china. Get real and point the fingers at the mirror for electing such crap government in to power and being so politicaly correct that we cant leave our houses.

Are you kidding me Didi??? Spoken like a truely clueless city dweller. First off, comparing coyotes and wolves is comical. I am not scared of coyotes. They are a more of a nuisance and I have encountered them many times in the wild and they turn and run the other direction. Wolves, on the other hand, are scary. The wolves we are encountering are not scared and are big, powerful animals and hunt and kill anything and everything. They kill for sport, not just to eat. And what exactly do you think ranchers should do with their livestock to keep them safe? Keep them on leashes chained up in their fenced yard? Not sure if you know this, but livestock are not pets. They need to graze and there is no way to constantly monitor them. They are a way of life and put food on the table for these families. I am sure if these were some high power executives making tons of money at the "expense" of the little people and threatening to somehow put a dent in your income, you would be crying for a public lynching!

Do some people seriously believe relocating these animals will solve the problem? They had filet mignon in a lugubrious form! That's like taking a human who was seated at the Waldorf Astoria eating prime food, then supplanting said human at a mess hall garbage can and suggesting, "Bon Appetit!" Who seriously believes the wolves will not try to find that filet mignon again?

They tried doing something similar with Block E in Minneapolis, known for its porno bars, by requiring they be closed. Some guy got on the radio and suggested, "Like, we think these people who like this sort of entertainment will just shrug their shoulders and say, 'Oh, well. Guess I'll move to the suburbs and join the bowling league!'!"

As a farmer and outdoorsman I see both sides of this issue. Our government needs to stop trying to fool with mother nature. They keep introducing top teir predators to the food chain without any thought to the consequences. In our state, the cougars have suddenly started showing up throughout the area. Of course, no one is taking responsibility for this action. My guess is that pressure from the insurance companies to reduce car/deer claims is behind the matter. But what happens when the cougar population balloons to the point where the deer population is disseminated and can no longer support the cougars? They find other prey. You can not have a top-tier predator without some controls on their population. Which equates to no protections. You must hunt them to levels that can be supported. Our area of the state used to be home to bobwhite quail and ring-necked pheasant populations but since the decline in trapping and hunting of predators they are an endangered species. It's rare to see a once numerous bird. Bobcats, coyotes, skunks, raccoons, and now cougars all prey on anything easy to catch. If you upset the balance you begin to see complete species disappear. When humans hunt these animals we have controls that limit the number we can harvest but when top-tier predators hunt they have no limit. You can't control them. There was a reason many of these predators were hunted to near extinction and it was done by people that had a better understanding of how mother nature operated, they didn't sit in the city and admire these animals just for their beauty. They were in competition with them for food and understood how the balance of nature works.

And DIDI gets ugly dumb redhead award. Haven't read your other posts just thought I would comment on hers since she is obvioudly clueless. Coyotes? Really? Coyotes are not in the same realm as the Grey Wolves they mention here. We are talking about very large apex predators that do kill for FUN! They do not just kill for food. They are efficient at killing and actually get enjoyment out of it. I do not want to see them all wiped out, but when a certain pack starts a behvaior that is dangerous to humans or their livestock they must be put down. It is the only way to solve the issue. You leave them and they will continue hunting livestock and they will have babies that will do the same. Then in 20 years you will have multiple packs that hunt lifestock and it wont be as easy to solve as it is now. City people please dont talk about stuff you clearly have no clue about.

TinaB - Humans are the nuisance, not the wolves. They preceeded us by thousands of years. WE encroached on THEIR land, not the reverse. American Indians, before white settlers arrived, knew how to respect and coexist with wildlife and predators. Are we not "smarter" than stone-age people? Are guns and death the only sensible solution? How about this: wean yourself away from inefficient meat like beef; tell ranchers to get cattle off public land; stop human encroachment in wild areas; practice birth control to curtail population growth; let the natural predator-prey balance return wherever possible. Every time people impose themselves in the ecology of a region, they only screw things up.

administrators wife

Didi, come on up to North Idaho and Western Montana and you can see the difference for yourself in a coyote and a wolf (we have both). As far as we are concerned the gray wolf is an illegal immigrant and should be sent back to Canada where came from.admikn wife,

Speak for youeself. I live in North Idaho and have seen what the influx of Californians, Mid Westerners, etc. have done to this area. The wolf, the griz, etc. lived here long before white people. They were kept in check by environmental factors, i. e., weather, food supply, etc. Now we have intruded further and further into the back country. Increasing number of hunters, both legit and poachers, have had adverse effects on trophy animals. Three of the last five winters have been brutial. We average 66" of snow in Coeur d'Alene but those three winters we had between 120" and 190" plus several periods of subzero temperatures each your. Your ignorance, along with several others, is outragous but then people like you are the reason we have people "serving" us like Gov Otter and Rep Phil Hart. I'm fed up with the whining of those on the right. It's time you learned you are part of the problem. Are wolves and griz blameless? No but your attitude of YOU knowing all is rediculious. Whether YOU like it or not your are part of a complex ecosystem, not the master of it. The sooner you understand that the sooner things will improve.

Smoke a Pack a Day

Oh and why we are on the subject the dam tree huggers that didnt want to log the forest because of a spotted owl?

Wow what an awesome name. I'd be will to bet you're mental midget. I have a coworker, extremely religious (at least in his mind), extremely right wing, who believes it is God given right to dictate forest/back country use to the rest of us, that has the same thing on his truck. My real comment though is the spotted owl controversy was settled, what, forty years ago. Please get some other up to date contraversy to whine and cry about. You look silly.

Smoke a Pack a Day:

"buy our lumber from China"? I'm not sure if there's any "lumber" left in China to begin with, what with all the desertification going on over there.

There are so many forrested areas this year burning to the ground because environmentalists blocked the ability to cull/harvest the trees. When you get all that timber all bunched up, in a year with almost no rainfall, one spark of lightning and 50,000 acres goes up at once. No more owls, no more forest, etc. The spotted owl thing might be old, but it is very valid.

Wolves are a real problem for farmers and ranchers around here. The environmentalists insisted that the wolves reintroduced into Yellowstone would never wander, yet you hear stories every day of a farmer losing cattle or other livestock to wolves. If you lost tens of thousands of dollars to a wolf, you would think differently. And like it or not, it is a contributing factor to the higher cost of meat.

Wolves were hunted to near extinction and should have stayed that way.

Imwhitewolf,

wow, sorry to inform you of this, but I am certainly not the reason we have people "serving" us like Gov Otter and Rep Phil Hart. I am about as far from the "right" as you can get on most issues.

So, there is no difference between a wolf and a coyote? It is very obvious there is, so why again, am I ignorant?

Me asking for these wolves to not be introduced and sending them back to Canada (where they adapted into the Gray wolf we have here now) is ignorant? Why? The ecosystem I grew up riding horses in my whole life here seemed just fine without them...Oh, and never ever saw a Grizz or Wolf in the silver valley in all of those years...

Your hostility and name calling is offensive by the way....

You folks do not understand the workings of nature and the outdoors. The Elk and deer have been almost wiped out in Yelowstone, yet we here in Washington, Oregon and Idaho are to see our big Game and livestock ranching threatened because of a bunch of people who have no idea of what they are talking about dictate how to run our businesses.

TinaB # 4.4 and Bassai # 4.18

You both seem up to speed on grazing charges on public lands. Thanks for the info.

What is the free market value of grazing cattle on private land? I see that you quote the socialist price for grazing on public land is $1.35 per head month for the Forest Service and $1.35 per animal unit month for the BLM.

Which is the better deal for the rancher - free market land or government owned land?

Tina- I don't have a problem with wolf hunting. I see wolves all the time in Idaho. I don't see the things you are referring to however. You make living in wolf country sound like a horror movie. My family has kept cattle at a place on the edge of the bitterroots for years. If the wolves attack we get paid. No big deal. I guess we do not form emotional attachments to our food though. Never seen an eviscerated elk that I or my Dad had not shot already. Chill out. I love seeing these wolves. Also I am unaware of anybody dieing from wolf attack in the Northwest in decades children or not.

DaveK: "Wolves are a real problem for farmers and ranchers around here."

You got that bass-ackwards dude. Farmers and ranchers are the real problem for the wolves, which existed in that area long before the white settlers showed up.

"Wolves were hunted to near extinction and should have stayed that way."

I'd prefer that idiots like you go extinct. Troglodytes like you won't be happy until every living thing on Earth has been subjugated and squashed under your jackboot heel. You are a product of Nature, but you seem to hate the mother that begat you and your ilk. I bet you believe climate change is a hoax, and you drink the kool-aid that Faux Noise dispenses from the spiggot that is Sean Hannity's anus.

Which is the better deal for the rancher - free market land or government owned land?

Good question, but no I quoted the Federal price not a socialist price. Here is an answer for you:

The Obama administration yesterday rejected a proposal to raise grazing fees on public lands, a decision that suggests ranchers will continue to be charged below-market prices to graze cattle on federal rangelands.

http://www.nytimes.com/gwire/2011/01/19/19greenwire-obama-admin-denies-petition-to-raise-grazing-f-43764.html

The link in 4.18 above explains how Washington sets their fees, and on page 9 lays out how much less they would get if they a) did nothing, b) sold the land to ranchers, c) raised fees and had no drop in leases, d) raised fees and had a 50% reduction in leases, and e) went to charging per AUM like the Feds do (they would get less than a. if they did that).

As far as Federal leases go the Feds charge less than most states that I have seen. The Federal rate is supposed to be based on a market valuation, but see the quote above about Obama's administration rejecting an increase.

Here is alittle bit more for you on it:

Bought and paid for
Nearly all grazing permits held by ranchers today have been "purchased'' from a prior owner as part of buying a ranch or livestock. Therefore, most ranchers feel they have paid for the right to use federal land and are not receiving a subsidy from the government. They say the windfall fell to the previous holder of the permit and not the current holder.

http://www.omaha.com/article/20120806/NEWS/708069921

You will see in this article that the Clinton administration tried to raise it to $4.00 and failed. Obviously price setting based on market valuation doesn't work when politics come into play.

Also consider this, in the price a private lander owner is going to charge for a lease is the costs for his land such as his property taxes. The states and the Feds don't have that cost and can make money off of a lower fee.

Here's what gets me... there are literally millions of ducks, geese and other various sundry migratory fowl sitting on our drinking water, contaminating it with their poop and going out to feed in our grain fields every day. When do we start eradicating these wild birds? We must protect our farmers at all costs! They are the suppliers and price gougers of tomorrow! Although we absolutely despise socialism, let's up their subsidy checks and buy them automatic shotguns. Have a tea bagger rally in every rural county... tell them "those ducks, geese, sandhill crains are all liberals, have at 'em". Then we can start on the rabbits, prarie dogs, hawks and bald eagles. If it looks like a cow and thinks like a cow... it must be a republican!

Wake up and understand that the rancher pays the goverment for his cattle to be on the land

Public land means public land and all public should have access to that land. The government was wrong to lease public land to a private party.

...and also pays taxes for this state

That's good. He should be paying taxes even if he was doing business on his own land.

who do they ask for help from to feed the elk in the winter when they run out of feed here in washington?

Are they paid for their hay; and if so, how overpriced and far do they stick it to the taxpayers per bale?

Oh and why we are on the subject the dam tree huggers that didnt want to log the forest because of a spotted owl? Guess what the dam forests here burt to the grownd this summer

Is there something wrong with you? It was never really about the spotted owl. It was about strip logging and ruining our, the public's, forest. Nature uses fire as a way to revitalize an area so it will come back even stronger, not stripped if left up to the loggers.

Get real and point the fingers at the mirror

This is no longer the wild west where what you believe is your possession is 9/10's of the law.

Point your own finger at the mirror, Homer.

Bassai, thanks for the info and the links.

The average private grazing rate per AUM ranges from $13.00 to $19.40 in 12 of the 15 states listed by the BLM (I left off the lowest of $9.00 and the two highest of over $24 and $27 each)

http://www.blm.gov/wo/st/en/info/regulations/Instruction_Memos_and_Bulletins/national_instruction/2012/IM_2012-070.html

Granting that leasors of public lands have costs including "regulatory costs, increased predation, ownership of water rights, maintenance of improvements and the difficulties of managing livestock in rough, arid rangelands"

in addition to

"various requirements that include ensuring public access, maintaining fences and providing wildlife habitat", I have not seen any dollar value applied to these costs.

The GAO calculates that adminstration of grazing rights costs (2004) were $144 million with $21 million collected in fees. Also in the last quarter century, federal grazing fees have gone down 40% while private grazing fees have gone up 78%.

All this is found at the following two sites:

From the cattle grazers magazine "Beef" http://beefmagazine.com/regulation/obama-s-budget-proposes-increase-federal-lands-grazing-fee

From an editorial in the "Journal Star" newspaper (Omaha, NE?) http://journalstar.com/news/opinion/editorial/editorial-chewing-the-cud-on-grazing-fees/article_599e8e84-2ea2-5999-9ec2-ac95508a7996.html

As to my use of the words "socialized price", that seems perfectly reasonable in the sense that socialism is government ownership of the means of production - in this case the grazing land.

In any event, on the face of it, it looks like the leasors of public grazing land are well subsidized by the American taxpayer. So if the American taxpayers have a yen for wolves to run free, maybe this particular rancher could follow his fellow leasors and take some steps to mitigate the predation problem that his tax-paying benefactors have presented him.

Thanks for your dialogue.

A lower fee is not a subsidy, but for the sake of argument I wll go with the way you have used it. Now who benefits from that subsidy the, as some have put it, "welfare" rancher or the soccer mom picking up that package of hamburger. Based on what I said earlier and what you put forth above would the rancher be able to stay in business if he had to pay a higher rate? He does not control the price he gets when he sells his cattle, nor is he going to have control over many of his other costs. About the only way he could lower his grazing fee and other costs is reducing the size of his herd. If enough ranchers were forced to do that what is going to happen to the price of soccer mom's hamburger?

In many parts of the country due to the drought ranchers have had to resort to feeding their livestock hay that was intended for winter feed. And that is if they can get it.

Also one of the implications from that article I cited are that many of these ranchers aren't paying that low government rate. They are paying that rate plus whatever the original leaseholder is charging them or lease rate plus whatever it was over and above that paid to whoever sold them the lease.

As far as this rancher goes, no disagreement. I've run into clowns like that before where the conversation goes "this is my land, and I can do what I want... no it isn't you jerk and you are violating the lease."

While I understand the why, and that the wolf population will endure....it still saddens me. I would rather the cattle go (and I eat meat). In northern wisconsin residents shoot wolfs because they kill their dogs. I understand....but that saddens me too. As another poster said, it is humans that have overpopulated the world, the animals lose so we can lead an our lives unbothered by them, or so we can have their habitats. I am near 60 now, a life long outdoors person (including hunting)...we have scrwed thing up pretty good in my lifetime. But, I am glad to have seen a wolf in the wild (if you can call northren wisc wild) in recent years...so maybe there is hope.

There domain was Canada, until humans became involved.

In northern Minnesota, people carry guns with them because running into timberwolves is common. The only time you're allowed to shoot them on sight is if they are being troublesome.

When my 9 year old cannot play outside because of the threat to her life, I take a proactive approach to the problem.

I just hope the people don't exact payment for the eight dead wolves on farmer Bill's cows

That rancher is PAYING for a grazing lease on that land. It's every bit as much his land as it is yours, except that in addition to his taxes funding government lands, he also pays an additional lease to feed his cattle on it.

He SHOULD be paying more to use that land. He's making a profit from its use.

"Currently, ranchers can pay $1.35 for each cow or calf eating grass on land managed by the Bureau of Land Management and the National Park Service. A report from the Government Accounting Office, however, shows the actual cost of administrating public lands is about $7 per animal." From a NewsWest article.

So we start making the ranchers pay for their own land, and the price of beef goes up. So people eat less red meat, which has been proven in a recent study published by the Harvard School of Public Health to increase the chance of early death among adults studied over a 20 year period. Sounds good to me.

And as for the horrors predators wreak on their prey, take a minute to read about some of the atrocities human beings have perpetrated ON THEIR OWN KIND throughout history, let alone innocent, peaceful herbivores. Ever heard of The Rack? The Guillotine? Waterboarding? Yep, wolves can be bad. I believe you. Humans are still worse. And we're all the more hypocritical when we punish wolves for behaving according to the nature god created them with.

Ha ha hah , lawd dont kill him, this taste so good. Take a look at that animal in photo shot it's so meagre and famish looking, they've got to be real starving to attack large animals like cattles they can attack humans too. Hunger is a real desperate curse.

tinab:

I agree w/ skurfer, get the goddamn cattle off my land. The rancher is a bad tenant. Renters don't own their property to do with what they please. Bad renters get evicted. Boot this POS off my land.

Here is a different idea: Have the government get out of land ownership. Most this land is not parkland, so sell it to the rancher. Doesn't sound like you have ever visited "your land".

I just sent a message to the governor and the attorney general for Washington State. Do that and let them know we don't agree with killing these wolves. They could relocate them.

hopefully the gov and the attny gen will recognize your uninformed opinion for what it is and ignore it. you clearly have no idea about the cut throat nature of wolves, if you move that pack to another area that already contains wolves they will be quickly and efficiently exterminated by the pack that has already claimed that territory.

I already voted on this issue in my state with my wallet, there is a wolf tag in my hunting pack as i type that i fully intend to use if the opportunity presents itself.

Its not the ranchers fault that the government forced wolves back into the "eco system". And its not this ranchers fault that wolves were eradicated before. Its not this ranchers fault that wolves don't know where the border of Idaho and Washington is. He is loosing cows and that means he is loosing money.

If I get the chance I will legally shoot a wolf and be happy to do it.

Also not the ranchers fault that wolves are smart enough to figure out that cattle are a lot easier to kill than deer or elk.

Human beings just want to kill things for the sport of it. Stewards my a$$!

For apex predators who rely on the lower half of the food chain to survive, we sure can be a stupid lot.

Gary Robinson

You people are treating these wolves just like you treated the indians..you want to kill them all the time..why dont we take this land away from this rancher

The Indians believed that all land was public land. If you prefer taking the land use away from the rancher, aren't you saying the rancher should be treated like the Indians?

Wolves are not people. Go back to pretending you are a native american and leave the grown up things to us adults.

So you're saying that being Native American and a grown-up is mutually exclusive? Calling Amerindians "immature kids" who don't know how to act like adults? Let me guess - you're descended from the European whites who committed genocide on the original inhabitants of North America. The ones who ravaged the continent in the name of industry and financial profit. The ones who wiped out the wild buffalo herds and the wolf population, while breeding like horny gerbils and replacing forests and pastures with mini-malls and office parks. Yeah, you're a real credit to the Master Race alright. Zieg Heil!

Exactly Gary... different time, different species... but the same white man mentality. Nothing changes much really. Oh, and after reading several of your dribble posts Seattle... allow me to mention you have the last name confused with what you actually are: Retard

Jessie, I agree with you. 5 P's to success...Prior Planning Prevents Poor Performance! AG...they are on the endangered species list. Also, what are they going to do after they kill the wolves...kill all the deer and other animals that feed on the cattle's hay because they are not kept in check? Farmers need to plan. We have to share this earth and destruction of innocent animals trying to feed themselves is horrible. Those of you out there that make jokes about this ... you're sick and without compassion. That will come back and haunt you...count on it.

They are not on the endangered list anymore.

Wolves are thriving. After being reintroduced in Idaho a few years ago, they are doing so well that you can now hunt them.

Prior Planning Prevents Poor Performance

Really? And how do you suggest we plan the wolves reproduction and prevent a population tip? Go out and spay the females? When the wolf population explodes and there is not enough food, they will go after livestock, pets, even people.

Packs have to be culled or they will overrun us, and a pack that has become a nuisance and a danger can't be fixed. You can't plan the course wildlife will take, and culling is necessary to prevent tipping. That's the trouble with fanatical activists... they have no sense of reality.

wow... so many experts on wolf habitat, reproduction and life. Why don't you folks stick to what you're really knowledgeable at... playing golf, drinking beer and beating your wives? Go to church on Sunday and tell everyone how righteous you are. Republicans do that when they aren't pretending to know everything else or exploiting every single inch of real estate and all of the species it (used) to contain.

Hey Rene, go google wolf reproduction... They don't produce that many pups a year, and 70 % of the time not all the pups survive to maturity. Packs rarely get larger then 8-12 wolves, their social hierarchy breaks down if there's too many. They consist of a Family group, the Alphas are the breeding pair, just them. Everyone else plays a role in raising and protecting the alphas' offspring. It isn't an easy existence, so no, they aren't taking over, you hilljack!

"they aren't taking over, you hilljack!"

Try living in NW montana-wolves have wiped out a couple elk herds,and they do not live as families-wild animals are not as they are portrayed in Disney movies-

wolves are killing machines-they should never have been re-introduced into an area that does not have the prey base to support them-people live in the area now-there is no longer an extensive prey base-

after a decade and half or so of lawsuits from animal rights-enviro groups,and judge Molloy tyring to legislate from the becnch-it took an act of congress to return wolf management to the states-where it belongs-the wolf reached to original goal of 300 animals or 30 breeding pairs well over ten years ago-

the grey wolf is not an endagered species-the wolf population has to be managed-hunting is the most effective means of manegement-it is also hunters who pay,and have paid for the vast majority of wildlife conswervation-both through Pittman-Robertson act excise taxes on guns,ammo,and hunting gear,and tags/licenses. Add in all the hunter groups such as National Wild Turkey Federation,Ducks Unlimited Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation,Whitetails Unlimited,Pheasants Forever,Trout unlimited and many,many more,along with the fact that hunters paid for the system of National Wildlife refuges-and hunters pay for,have paid for,and continue to pay for the vast majority of wildlife conservation-and pay far,far more than all of the enviro and animal rights groups combined.

The grey wolf is no longer endangered,it is here to stay,as is hunting of wolves as a management tool-get over it-wolves will be hunted.

Hey Rene, go google wolf reproduction... They don't produce that many pups a year, and 70 % of the time not all the pups survive to maturity. Packs rarely get larger then 8-12 wolves, their social hierarchy breaks down if there's too many. They consist of a Family group, the Alphas are the breeding pair, just them. Everyone else plays a role in raising and protecting the alphas' offspring. It isn't an easy existence, so no, they aren't taking over, you hilljack!

I would, but I really prefer to listen to the trappers, hunters, farmers, area residents, and rural vets rather than Google. Scientists and conservationists only get controlled results from relatively small areas. Lots of pups die when there is not enough food, but there is more than enough now. Reproduction may be slower if there are four or five packs, even large ones, in one area, but when you have a dozen or more smaller packs you have a lot more pups born (not even counting lones, which increase with easily available food) Wolf populations have exploded. When you have farmers putting half a dozen mules in every cow pasture to keep wolves and coyotes away and wolf packs roaming residential areas without fear, you have a big problem. Even with mules, farmers still expect to lose a few cattle if they stray too far from the herd. With stricter regs on deer hunting and higher numbers of rabbits and other small animals, and more livestock, the food supply is ample and readily available, and the results are showing. Every wild mammal is prey to the wolves, small or large, with the exception of wild hogs. It isn't just wolves; coyotes are multiplying at high rates and they have nearly doubled in size from what they were 15 years ago. They are even climbing fences to get at pet dogs; people in well-populated areas who have never had to use hotwire on fences are doing it to keep wolves and coyotes out now. Don't base your beliefs on predatory species on what the scientists say, and certainly not on Google.

You can't eat wolves. Most wolves have a disease that is a parasite, fatal to humans and other animals, but no harm for a wolf. It's expected that about 65% of wolves have this disease. That's also another reason that management is necessary; they are spreading this disease which causes extreme sickness and can be fatal in other animals including elk, deer, cows, moose, coyotes and birds.

Same shlock being passed around as information as Yellowstone Bison have brucellosis and it will kill cattle calves. Completely false.

No, you are crazy! Maybe you should educate yourself a little more. Or just come live with your "precious, beautiful little wolves"

Tana, girl, you've got a serious problem. Channeling Goldilocks much?

Tana - a quick search located this discussion regarding the Western Wolves and the Hydatid Parasite.

It seems the parasite argument is a scare tactic to pull the wool over people's eyes.

Before I'm accused of being a liberal, wolf lover, I'm in favor of keeping the population in check ... once the wildlife experts are in agreement that the population has recovered enough.

I live in Northwest Montana and we are constantly hearing how many wolves there are, how they joy kill and are blood thirsty beasts. It is all a hunter/rancher mentality of needing to eliminate any competition to them. The real Natives knew how to live amongst the wolves. But it has been this way ever since white men came west. So, we as society placate the ranchers and hunters and they are the most active with all the little red riding hood tactics.

Hell, the hunters could not even fill their quotas last year of these over populated beasts. Do not belive their rants about them!

What disease is this, Tana? I DO know they can become rabid, and parvo can be a problem...I would imagine distemper, also...still no reason to slaughter them because some lazy @!$%# gets greedy...

Tana Linscottvia Facebook

You can't eat wolves. Most wolves have a disease that is a parasite, fatal to humans and other animals, but no harm for a wolf. It's expected that about 65% of wolves have this disease. That's also another reason that management is necessary; they are spreading this disease which causes extreme sickness and can be fatal in other animals including elk, deer, cows, moose, coyotes and birds.

So what is this mysterious disease? How come no ones ever heard of it? Quick make up a name and of course no one will have heard of it because it's mysterious right? Sounds like someone has been loading you with a bunch of BS.

Because some "lazy ass" gets greedy? LOL. I wonder how "greedy" you'd be if something was destroying your private property, the same private property that happened to be your livelihood and the way you feed your family? Would you be "greedy" because you wanted the issue resolved and a stop put to the destruction of your property? This rancher pays for a grazing lease on public land in addition to his tax dollars funding public lands, and he's the bad guy because wolves are killing his cattle?? Talk about an f'd up mentality.

STUPID IS AS STUPID DOES

Man faces the 6th great exodus from the earth (dinosaur's being the 5th) because of stupid behavior

Man thinks it's superior to animals because we know right from wrong

We are really inferior because man, not the animals , often do wrong

Tina you're a bit crazy. You talk about wolves killing and only eating this or that part of an animal...and yet we, has humans...do that daily....does that mean that we should be hunted down a killed? How many times does a hunter go out and kill something just for the fun of it? All the damn time....oh but if wolves do it they're just horrible creatures and should be killed. You are a sad, sad excuse for a selfish human being... only thinking about yourself...and not looking at the big picture. You have a lot of anger and selfishness inside of you.... i feel very sorry for you. And he's the "bad guy" because he was the only rancher who didn't try to work within the system they had built up to keep the cattle safe and the wolves alive....as with you he was led only by selfishness, hatred, laziness and greed.

I would hardly consider $1.35 per animal month a lot of fees a rancher pays for using Public Lands. Maybe you should re-visit the BLM Livestock Grazing guidelines before you show your F..uped attitude. Ranchers pay very little to graze on Public Lands, and it is a benefit to both sides, not exclusive to the taxpayers.

And when a rancher opts to graze his herd on Public Lands, there is risk attached with that, just as if you were to hike on the Public Lands and be stalked by a Mtn. Lion or a Grizz, so should we eliminate them also?

I previously posted that I understand why it is done....but Tina, I believe ranchers are compensated for stock loss (I will check again)....even so, I have lived in rural farming areas, and without trying to paint the wrong picture...some farmers/ranchers feel they can do what ever they like. Part of the independent scrw everyone else nature (which I also understand).

They were painting him as the bad guy not because wolves killed some of his live stock, but because he campioned the solution being killing wolves. I just checked...yes ranchers are compensated for the lost cattle...was he going to spare them from the slaughter house and make them pets :)

I someday hope to see one of those dreaded mountain lions to :)

Tana, I have to agree somewhat with Tina. This rancher was given options on how to protect his cattle and he chose to ignore them.....whose fault is it that his cattle were attacked by wolves (who belong on that land and were probably there thousands of years before we came around)? If you choose to ignore government options that were provided to you and choose to graze your cattle without adequate protection on THEIR land (in all actuality).....it's not the wolves who should get ALL the blame. It sounds like the rancher is the greedy, selfish one....not us or the wolves.

They can distribute the meat ti libs to help with the environment preseravtion

Let's see. If I were trying to make a living but something started 'literally' eating up my profits, I would have to ask myself some hard questions the same way that EVERY other person in the world does. First, I would tell myself that I may have right to earn a living but I don't have the right to earn it any way I want. I would ask whether this job allowed me to behave morally and as a good citizen and steward of the environment while making enough of a living to support my family If not, can I improve my own techniques to achieve a better result or should I farm/ranch some other product or livestock? Is what I provide to the community so important that the purchasers are willing to pay me enough for me to produce it the right way? If not, it is TIME to think about doing something else. Just because one person loves a lifestyle or may have spent years (or generations) doing it, it doesn't mean he gets to keep doing it the same way forever. Things change and you have to change with them. Period. There are plenty of folks all over this country right now learning new job skills or moving states away to 'feed their families' so spare me the sad story of one rancher who can't even conduct himself as well as the other ranchers. Please.

Totally agree with ya Didi-

He should've bought into the protection if he cared so much for his cattle...I mean his money!

Tina B...but it's NOT his property...and the other ranchers seem to be doing the right thing...this guy doesn't give a @!$%# about anything but what he wants. My guess is he has always hated wolves or anything else he refuses to protect his cattle from, and this is a good way to get rid of them.

If that is a @!$%#ed up mentality, then I am happy to ablige you.

A "mysterious disease" doesn't usually have thousands of research programs and articles written about it and the fish and game wouldn't warn us to use gloves when handling dead wolves. It's called hydatid disease, coming from a Echinococcosis granulosus tapeworm. So research it, read BOTH sides of the argument, not just one, then come have a civilized conversation. There is no reason for anyone to lie about a disease is there? No one lies about cancer, so why would people lie about any other disease. And for everyone wanting to point fingers and blame some one, for whatever reason, there is no one person in particular that is at fault. It's not the wolves fault, it's not the rancher's fault, it's not the hunter's fault. It's not a blame game!! It's a management plan!

And just like other tapeworms, it can probably be killed by cooking to the proper temperature. People don't eat wolves because they taste bad, not because of a parasite.

Ranchers and farmers PAY for leases to graze their animals on public lands. It is NOT free.

Tina, I come from a rural ranching background and while it is true that ranchers pay lease fees it is also true that they pay very, very little... they need to work with Fish and Wildlife and the BLM because it is a privilage, not a right for them to lease and graze public lands... If they can't be responsible guardians of the land then they need to find another way to make a living... Before you go off on what a liberal idiot I am do some research... Farmers and ranchers are one of the largest subsidized groups in this country... I know... I'm related to a bunch of them and somehow, somewhere they got the idea that the rest of the world owes them... I say let prices go through the roof... It will be brutal but it would, in the long run certainly help the population problem... Oh yeah... A lot of those farmers would have to do without their new trucks and implements and make do for a change.

They may pay for grazing but the last tme I took a hike in the woods I did not see any cows...If you put cows in the forrest it just ain't natural.Is it? I am no expert but I have NEVER seen a Cow in the woods.I have seen deer,wabbits,fox,mice racoons,one very friendly woodchuck,a skunk,moose,loads of birds,frogs,toads...beaver even..but I never saw a puddy cat or a Cow.There is something wrong with that picture.Just what thing just doesn't belong here,just what thing just shouldn't be here?

There is WAY more open land west of the Mississippi. You aren't making an apples to apples comparison. Eastern Washington and Oregon are vast open spaces, and these free range cattle taste mighty good, just ask the wolves.

In many of the sovereign Western states the Federal Government claimed so much land that they became the largest landowner. As the landowner, they pay no state taxes. Ranchers pay a fee to utilize the land and someone in D.C. and people that don't even live in these states tell them what to do. "The government does a favor to these ranchers"? I don't think so. These are not the same wolves that were here before. These are not the same as the Timberwolves of Northern Minnesota and Wisconsin.

These are Canadian Grey Wolves there is no comparison. Besides people should be rejoicing. The Endangered Species Act did it's job. These non-naive wolves which were forcibly "re-introduced" are no longer endangered and as such the Federal Government no longer as any say in their management.

People "Pay" for airline tkts all the time, and the airlines go to bankruptcy because..... they sell em too cheaply and can't cover costs! But listen to the people cry and whine aabout a $25 bag fee. So it is with ranchers and loggers on western lands. They don't have the risk of ownership and the price they pay to lease grazing land or loggin rights is way below value. And like the airline rider who buys below cost they think they are paying full value. They never acknowledge they've been getting good deal, or say thank you ! Either they have know idea what proper value is, or they are liars. But if gubmint employees didn't let them have the resources at below market prices they couldn't get it. All I'm saying is, the gubmint employees ought to make the rancher sign a release accepting responsibility for the hazards of the range and foregoing a claim against the gubmint. And then no need to kill wild animals on the range cause ranchers are crying and whining.

Another tea bagger with a hypocritical rant....rogue govt agency my azz, the dickhead is a beneficiary of my tax dollar so he should just STFU, I like the wolves much better than some faux conservative azzwipe.

Preach on drano! Preach on.....

omg jax....that's exactly what I first thought: "Wonder whether he's wearing his tin foil hat today." lolol

Drano, that 'beneficiary of your tax dollars' pays taxes for those public lands as well, and he also PAYS FOR A LEASE to graze his cattle on "your" land. I'd say that land is just as much his as it is yours... perhaps even more so since he pays not only taxes but a lease as well.

Tina: I hate to pop your bubble, but that land belongs to no one....it was here well before we came along and took it over. The indians respected the land because they knew that it wasn't theirs....it gave them the means of survival, and they treated it well. On the other hand, here we come, and look what happens. Most of the beautiful land that was here thousands of years ago is now a memory or a dream (or a nightmare, depends on how you look at it). It always bugs me when people say "this is OUR land." Unfortunately, we're just borrowing it from Mother Earth.....after we're gone, it'll still be here! Thank goodness for that thought!

Didi... everything was here before we got here. Your stuff will be here after you die. That is a stupid comment.

Wolves need to live in an ecosystem that can supprt them. Alaska. Northern Canada. Not NE Washington. Exterminate them all in these areas.. they are doing no good. Most of people crying to protect them will never see them.. do not live among them..and have no business trying to set policy for those who do.

They never should have been re-introduced to begin with. And believe me... wolves are much different than they coyotes you are supposedly living with.

Give me a home where the buffalo roam and the Cows? and the antelope playyyyyyyyy I may have lived on this tiny island too long...I do live on a small island and when we go boating I do not put my dog in the water because my dog could get eaten by a shark.I may be stupid too..but as I said in another post and PLEASE tell me...when you go hiking,do you ever see COWS? Just seems weird..or am I the weirdo?

Didi,

Did it hurt much when you fell all over yourself being the first to give back your piece of land that belongs to no one?

PLEASE tell me...when you go hiking,do you ever see COWS? Just seems weird..or am I the weirdo?

Yes.

It doesn't take much of a search to find wolf activists whose stated agenda is the removal of all grazing on federal lands.

Wrong, P.Hawk...not all people who want to see these animals alive want to get rid of the grazing...I hate the fact that there are whalers out there slaughtering them but I won't support Greenpeace...that group is too radical, like PETA...they do stupid things to bring awareness, and because of that stupidity, no one sees what they are trying to say..and Cue...just because I've never seen a tiger in the wild doesn't mean they should all be destroyed.

@danict, I completely agree with you. McIrvine IS an idiot for not participating in the range riding program as well as other programs all of the other ranchers participated in. You can also see what a redneck idiot he is by his comments about the agency being a "rogue government agency". Okaaay. He sounds like the rogue one here. I hope Washington's DFW will not just give him a slap on the wrist, especially since he is using public land to graze his cattle (yes, Tina, I KNOW he pays for it, albeit not very much!). I wrote to Director Phil Anderson of DFW with my concerns about this...I encourage everyone else to do the same. Here is the e-mail: director at dfw dot wa dot gov

This rancher isnt going to solve anythig by pulling his shot gun out and killing these wolves. He should of done what the other ranchers are doing and his cattle would'nt be dead now. The wolves are doing what animals do, HUNT TO SURVIVE, these cattle are being raised to be slaughtered any way, I'd much rather see them meet their demise by nature and not at the hands of ranchers in a slaughter house!!!

Yes, public property that he pays taxes on just like the other residents do and that he PAYS to graze his cattle on. Farmers and ranchers have to pay for a lease to do this - it isn't just a free-for-all.

As usual, blame the victim mentality prevails on this forum. I wonder what would happen if one of the cry babies had their pet animal snapped by a coyote, or a wolf?

First off we as humans are instructed by God ( some of you agree some of you dont) to cultivate this earth by the sweat of our face, and manage the beast's of the field. I am not sure about anyone else, but I dont see the population of the USA slowing down any time soon. So to keep as many people fed as we can (without bringing food from other countries) and managing our own economy (which agriculture is a part of) we need these lands for the betterment of man kind. I am a hunter and a rancher, and like the idea of wolves in the mountains with all the other animals that belong there. People need to realize tho that there is more grass in the mountains than any population of elk or deer could ever eat. If there is so much extra grass (which there is) then we need to take advantage of it. unfortunatley wolves, bears and coyotes are part of the picture.

But what people from the other side of the missourri river forget about is that we as humans have brains that let us construct things..... like GUNS, and most of them come from the EAST COAST anyway! so with these fine designs of steel, wood, and optics we protect our lively hood. Not because we need our herds of beef and lamb to keep our families alive, but more so it is our form of earning wages, and we keep America fed as best we can. I dont know the situation on paying for the grazing on public lands as I have deeds to all of my property that I graze on, but it is a resource available to the public for the good of the public and I see no problem using it.

With the wolves and bears, they were never really extinct. Thinned out......YES. but the only way we were able to "almost" erraticate them was with the help of 1080, and purple stricnine. poisons that are highly illegal to use this day in age, and even so it didnt work because there has always been wolves and bears in the rocky mountains and always will be. Just last week I was in the Rocky's elk hunting, and heard a wolf howl. I thought to myself wow thats cool! I like them just as much as the tree hugger that lives in a city, the only difference is I understand the need for managment a little better than the city folk do. I'm not gonna walk into the city hall of New York and tell them how to direct traffic in time square because I dont have a clue how the logistics of that would work. City folk are city folk, and country folk are country folk. you stay out of our business, and we will stay out of yours.

and for the gun control freaks that go nuts with this subject. I'm all for bringing back the hangmans noose, and good 'ol frontier justice! that guy that shot that lady in Arizona and they caught him, KILL that sob and make an example out of him. They caught him red handed, and now our tax dollars are gonna pay for him to sit in a prison and feed him our beef, lamb and chicken for the rest of his days. Why? because we are supposed to be an evolved people. I got one thing to say to that...... bull @!$%#!!!

Lauren Conklin Trim your rant makes little sense, shooting the wolf is one way to protect the herd. Ranchers and farmers have shot them for centuries. The article doesn't mention how he didn't cooperate. I would like to know. As for the comment on Gt Pryenese, I have 4 that protect my sheep. If my dogs kill a wolf, are they wrong, and how do you feel about my dogs being endanger everynight? They are great dogs, but you are just changing the problem.

Hers anyother idea, you don't live here so butt out.

Very sadned to read such a horrific story! I happen to love all animals, (including the cattle), but wolves have a special place in my heart. Really need to find a way to guard the property against predators. It is their natural prey drive that brought them to the cattle in the first place. There has got to be a better way other than killing such a beautifully endangered creature as the grey wolf. We here in Cali are specialty chicken breeders and we have lost a whole flock because of bob cats and Coyotes...but you don't see us getting gun happy on coyotes and bobcats. We have found a way to remedy the problem without bloodshed.

Are you a consumer of natural resources?...Thought so. Shut it, get educated, cease your prejudice.

Natural resources...................................... you mean like chemically-enhanced cattle?

And the computer you used to make your comments? The house you live in, the food you eat, the paper you wipe your ass with, the vehicle you use for your commute, the shoe in your mouth?

I AGREE. Do Not Kill that pack of wolves. I dont care what the ranchers say. they need to shut the f*&% up and do something with there cattle. i love wolves and will do whatever it takes to stop them.

Do you have a job? Thought not.

I love to watch hippie tree huggers cry as I'm running my Stihl chainsaw through old growth redwoods... lol. Not really, but I truly enjoyed watching a show on PBS that was actaully made my tree huggers and showed them crying as they were cutting a few redwoods down in NorCal. They actually had names for some of the trees and were chaining themselves to the trees up in the branches. One of them had his arms and legs in cement filled buckets that were chained to the trees. How bad did he smell after a few days of urine and feces all over himself? I felt pretty sorry for the guys that had to cut him out of the tree. That's just an example of the mentality you are dealing with when it comes to enviro-nazi's. Same deal with all these people who are crying about wolves and cougars.

Oh geeezzzzzzzz that is an extreme example...IT IS important to keep ecosystems in balance..Some people just don't care about what will happen to this planet after they are composted.Some people do care..IF you have children you SHOULD CARE.

Animallover360

Before you spout off on how the wolves need to be saved, you need to research about the wolves. The wolves they put in the Northwest are not the ones that are native to the area, they are 80-100lbs heavier. They kill for fun, I don't think that your prized horse was killed for fun when you lived a mile out of town. or have had a baby calf killed just to rot. Or have seen a cougar next to your camp when out in the woods. You can't say that the ranchers need to change when there has been ranching in the North West for generations.

So before you open your mouth about a topic you obviously know nothing about come spend a night in the woods with the cougars and wolves.

Please lead the way. I'm sure you will have a tremendous following.

That's very polite of you to ask for directions mpa but I don't need to lead you...just follow the rest of the cattle up the ramp and on into that building over there....you know the one....the everybody knows what's really going on but as long as they can't "see" into it it isn't happening building. Yup, that's the one.

I see alright, thanks, Troy. It is you that sees humanity as a cancer and feels the earth will benefit from our demise. If yu have the courage of your convictions, you would reduce the cancer and do the earth a favor. Or, you can just continue to insult the human race of news vine . . .

I agree with you,human beings are like an earth eating bacteria and unfortunatly there are way too many of them for the planet to survive. Everyone should put themselves in the wolfs paws...think about when "the man" decides it is time to cull humans...runnnnnnnn!!! stranger things have happened..fact is stranger than fiction and the beat goes on and on and on.......

oh they already have Rusty... it's called "war" and the republicans (especially wealthy ones) are all over that, as long as there is no draft. It culls the population down and allows more resources for them to exploit.

Awesome response! I couldn't agree more.

Wolves kill WAY more than they can eat. In my hometown, Dillon, Montana, a pack of wolves killed 127 sheep in one night. Only partially ate 3 of them. They slaughtered those sheep. We do not slaughter 127 wolves at one time!! Wolves are viscous killers. They kill for fun. Anyone who wants to disagree, obviously has never spent any time around a community being effected by wolves!

What are the wolves to eat? The ranchers put their cattle on the public lands and chase off the wildlife. The cattle do much more damage to our public lands that native animals such as deer and we just stand back and watch and do nothing.

The ranchers seem to have the politicians in their pockets. And you know, we all could do with eating just a little less meat. With 9 billion plus on the planet it is going to be difficult to supply everyone with a 16 ounce steak every day.

Where are all the pro-life people? Why aren't they protesting this?

This is just so sad, my heart hurts for the wolves who have been hated and persecuted by man for hundreds of years. What man fears he destroys.

Tana: And humans kill way more than they need to.

Tana, unfortunately you are preaching to group that is comprised of what I'd wager to bet is predominately city dwellers who think wolves are cute, cuddly, fuzzy little balls of love that would never hurt a flea. They are also the same people that do not live with these animals in their midst, thrust upon us by government once again telling us what is 'best' for us.

We live in WY and are all too familiar with wolf issues. I suggest we "reintroduce" wolves in the backyards of all these bleeding hearts who've never witnessed first hand the destruction they wreak... I mean, after all, "before the white man came", wolves were pretty much native all across this nation. That means all you city dwellers have encroached far more upon their natural habitat than those of us out here in the west living in the proverbial wide open spaces. I mean, why does MY back yard have to have wolves I don't want, and YOURS has none when you DO want them?

I suspect that once your pets are snacked upon and you've had enough encounters that make you feel nervous about the safety of your small children, perhaps you'll come to understand that, YES, management is a NECESSITY.

Tana,

With all the respect I can muster after reading your rants, I don't believe a word you say! I have a friend in Bozeman who told me about the 3,000 cattle killed by wolves. Contrary to what another poster said earlier, ranchers are compensated by wolf kills, so when I went online and read the number of kill claims, there were actually 17 for that year. Why do the ranchers have to exaggerate in order to try to make their points? Could it be for the same reason most right wingers send all their fantasies through the internet, that their belief system just can't stand on its own?

It is entirely possible that WE are the aliens. The rest of the animal kingdom would get along just fine without us.

What's sad Tina...is that you believe your life...your ability to walk on this earth.. is more important than a wolves life and freedom. It's sad and pathetic that you believe that someone who is so filled with hatred, anger and bitterness... is more important to this world...than a wolf who kills to survive. There's no way that a pack of wolves has brought about more death and devasation than angry, bitter hate filled people like you have over the years. People bring far more destruction and violence to this world than wolves do.... you know that....everyone knows that. NO ONE is saying that management isn't a necessity... if you looked beyond your hate for a moment... many of these people are saying that this rancher's lazyness and obvious hatred of wolves is what caused it.... if you noticed no other rancher's cattle was killed.. just his... because he didn't try to work in a way that would let everyone live peaceably. So try really READING what people say and looking beyond your hatred and anger for a moment.

I honestly can't see any legitimate conservation group saying "that killing the pack was best for long-term recovery of gray wolves in the wild.". Sounds like a bunch of incompetence to me. Sure, the wolves will repopulate with a couple of generations, but so would the human population should we decide to "punish" them for the damages they do. Which, quite frankly, is a hell of a lot more than a couple of cattle. The idea of human superiority over other animals drives me nuts, and this McIrvine guy sounds like he could use a couple hunters going after him for being so incompetent to just leave his cattle unprotected, and expect that nothing would happen. At least the wolves know how to fend for themselves.

Wolves in Ohio? Someones kidding here, right?

127 sheep in one night? What have you been smoking? How big is this so called murderous pack of wolves? Sounds to me you are one of these nut job ranchers who are threatened by the wolves doing what comes naturally for them to survive, where you are profiting from killing these animals. I do believe there needs to be management if the population gets too large but this is not the case yet. I find it interesting that so many believe how bad wolves are because of ranchers stories, yes stories. There is not a single recorded human death due to a wolf attack, yes people have been attacked by them protecting their pack just like any other animal or human would do. Stop spreading lies....

I have been out to places such as Montana where there is a real animosity towards wolves. It is weird. I don't think wolves are all that cute (sorry, but they are fuzzy). I think they are natural predators. As for the killing frenzy of '127' cattle. Ummmm... I don't know about that but a wolf absolutely would kill more than it could eat at one time. Most large predators kill something or multiple somethings when the opportunity arises then go back to eat it for several days. It is called opportunistic killing. If you think only wolves do it, go check your freezer. As for not liking wolves if they try to kill my pets. Well, the wolf would pretty much have to break into my house since I don't allow my domestic animals to run loose. If you have farm dogs, hopefully they are either kept in the house or barn at night or if they are herding dogs that live with your cattle/sheep, they are of sufficient size and quantity to deter wolves. I do love animals and nature and, no I do not eat domestically produced meat. But, I can see in this case why the wolves need to be either culled or removed to a sanctuary. I think this rancher should somehow be penalized, though. His failure to cooperate as did the other ranchers has resulted in the necessity of killing living animals for nothing. They won't even feed anyone. And, by the way, disease is actually spread when sick or weak animals are not picked off by predators (read, wolves). Kill all the wolves and sick deer, moose, elk, etc. linger to spread their diseases to more wildlife and domestic animals.

All you human haters who believe in evolution (as do I) ought to take a deep breath for a second. When you condemn mankind for being "killers" and you praise or excuse wolves for being what nature made them, aren't you forgetting that humans are being just what nature made us? We are tribal HUNTER gatherers who happen to have evolved as thinking tool makers. Of COURSE we're going to dominate our environment! It's what we do to survive as a species. I'm not excusing the viscous horrors some of us commit, but in the end we are natural born killers, and it will only end when we become so technological that we don't need to use any natural resources at all. And that ain't happening for several thousand years at least, assuming we last that long.

The main reason the hunting is starting for the wolves is that Federal Trapping as of a year or two ago has halted to an end.... This means nothing in nature is keeping the numbers of wolves down. There are 3000 wolves in Minnesota alone which is vast beyond belief. They are growing in numbers near as fast as wild boars and need to be managed immdeiatly. They killed one pack of 8 packs boo hoo there are far to many there. Wolves have not been on an endagered species list for years now and are running out of food due the the immense numbers of beasts running in the wild. The rabbit population in the north is so low I cant say ive seen a hare in about 5 years now. Grouse in some areas are doing fine since they can hide and in other areas are being slaughtered. The deer herds are doing fine its been a few warm winters probably also another reason the wolves are preying on smaller animals. But for the wolf hunt it needs to happen and its going to whether its legal or not. If not hunters the loggers will start shooting them while they are on the job site not only to protect themselves but the deer. They are only aiming to take out about 5-600 wolves out of mn but they have sold many more tags which is sort of bs I think but what isnt a scam these days. Lets just say last year the following morning after I got my deer there was so much wolf sign around I loaded up before light just because. Was beyond suprised they werent sitting on my gut pile just lots of birds. Its easy to be a bleeding heart but youd go hungry if it wasnt for the meat eating farmer growing your vegetarian food. Anyhow if I somehow missed my point in there its that there are way to many of the blood thirsty beasts and regulation of there popluation is absolutley necessary and will occur no matter how much people denounce it. Science has proven the management is needed.

So how many wolves are in Ohio now?

i think when he said 700 cattle he meant beef patties, and when he said farm he meant freezer.

It always bothers me to hear about animals being killed for what they have been born to do. People complain about deer in the cities, bears roaming the streets and other animals getting into their trash or killing a family pet. Hello people where are they supposed to go and what are they supposed to do. Humans have taken over their HOMES!!!! In the town that I live in (which is a very small Missouri town) we have at least 20 vacant buildings (some for sale, lease,rent and a few that need to be destroyed) but do people use them. NO... they insist on building something new. Which in turn causes the animals to move around and force them to go where they really shouldn't.

Honestly, after reading this right here, I have to wonder if Ranchers aren't killing their cattle to get rich and blaming natural predators for it... Humans would stoop so low. And tired of all the farmers thinking it's just City folk commenting...where I live, I'm surrounded by farm land, and the only predator I've ever seen was a Raccoon fishing, and a hawk that uses this area as hunting grounds. I'm so scared...(Sarcasm) My dumb-assed neighbor's pit bull is probably the worst threat around here, and the only Coyote I've ever seen was a stuffed one on display in a library.

I would like to know if the conservation dept. has looked into just how the cattle met their demise. I do not want to point any fingers but it is at all possible that these cattle were done in be someone or something else and not the wolves. The ranchers have always felt that they are ENTITLED to all the water and grazing land. I mean why don't they BUY their own LAND. Also if they are using land which we all pay for by the way they should be forced to use whatever means it takes to protect their OWN cattle and if they do not then they should LOSE their privilege to the land. Isn't it also true that the ranched is compensated for the loss of any cattle? The WOLVES should be allowed to ROAM FREE on land that every tax payer pays for to maintain and use NOT JUST A FEW RANCHERS. Also is it nessasary to have the tax payers pay for a helicopter to gun down the wolves. I mean what is the point to reintroduce these beautiful animals only to kill them when they are only doing what comes naturally to them. duh, These stories never cease to amaze me.. LET THEM ROAM FREE ALONG WITH THE WILD HORSES. STOP THE SLAUGHTER. Make the rancher responsible for there own cattle I mean REALLY. After all if the rancher wants to let his cattle ROAM free then he should take responsibly for their loss because he himself does NOT protect them. REALLY.. Just plain stupid..

WOW. I'm disgusted.... Disgusted by a bunch of loud mouth liberals that have no idea how their hamburger gets to the table much less what a rancher goes through to get it there. Do you all realize that this in not simply a dumb@$$ rancher failing to protect his/her cattle? Oh no... much deeper... all those pretty little buffalo and elk that moronic tourists attempt to pet every year in Yellowstone National Park??? Those animals have fought year in and year out in order to survive.... especially females. Did you know that wolves will attack and kill a pregnant female only to rip out the fetus and leave the mother for dead? I'm not sure about Washington but Wyoming is a FENCE OUT state. If you don't want livestock on your property YOU fence them out... Doesn't seem fair when there's an introduced predator in the mix now does it? We're going to send them all to your city and allow them to procreate incessantly. Seems like a fair deal for your ignorance.

leave the wolves alone....stop killing them...they where here on this land before you was...please stop the killing...what good are you getting out of it? leave them alone...or the state of wa should put the wolves in a protected area like yellow stone. just stop the killing.

I think to be exact, the number of sheep slaughtered was 122 and 5 were injured but alive. It's not a joke or a lie. I have lived in this town for my entire life. You ever wonder why when you google @!$%# about stuff like this, you can't find it? Well, because you have to look PAST the first 20 posts from wolf lovers! I hope all of you know that the wolves we currently have, here in the rocky mountains, are NOT NATIVE. They were transplanted. They are not our native wolf! You say the land belongs to them, but they aren't native either!! The wolves we have now are around 200 lbs and not scared of humans. That is DANGEROUS. I bet every single one of you hates pitbulls cuz they are "sooo mean" yet you've probably never even been around one. Well we've been around wolves our entire lives, we know the destruction they cause. We don't need any one of your approvals to hunt wolves. We'll be trapping and hunting the @!$%# out of them this fall. Be prepared to see a lot more dead wolves and a lot more elk and moose running around.

Save the wolves. They where on this land first. Stop the killing. Or the State Wa should transport them to a protected area like Yellow Stone National Park. Fence in your live stock or go somewhere else and leave the wolves alone. Im glade to see people speaking out for the wolves. They don't deserve to die. save the wolves Wa. And i think the ones who do kill wolves is being selfish rude right down being a ......., Stop the killing.

I don't hate animals I love animals and they have rights too..save the wolves

Murders! Murders! The only reason wolves feed on domestic animals is because "man" has taken away all of their food for natural preservation. Hunters have taken the rabbits and the squirrels and many other wild mammals that the wolves would eat. What do you expect them to do? They are hungry. If you were desperate to feed your family, how far would you go to provide for them. Plain and simple, this was a bad decision, uncalled for and you will all pay for killing God's creatures for no reason. This is senseless, stupid and goes to show how political decisions are made without regard for life. Wolves' culture is much like the human. Maybe we should start killing the humans that steal food to survive. Did you ever think of managing their food opportunities? Nooooo! Murders!

Wolves were shot out of the lower 48 over 100 years ago with good reason. They do not get along well with domestic livestock. Now we have bunnie huggers and politicians reintroducing them and allowing them to grow to a point where they are damaging livestock again. Well, lots more people and livestock today than 100 years ago. Response is predictable. Its not the wolves fault, its what they do.

The truth is, they should have never been reintroduced. Now that they are out of control, they need to be managed for population, The state F & G needs to do this, there needs to be a hunting season for them and they population needs to be low enough that they don't conflict with livestock.

Gowing up in the midwest on a horse and cattlefarm, we never had wolves-- thankfully. But we did get plently of stray dogs or packs of stray dogs. We employed something called -- SSS. the ranchers ought to do the same thing if Fish & Game does not continue to manage the population.

I have to side with the rancher, he OWNS the land and OWNS the livestock. He does not need outsiders attempting to regulate his life, property or business. Thats not how it should be done in america.

SSS stands for Shoot, Shovel and Shutup.

Tana,

Humans don't even eat what they kill. They kill rhinos for what?...horns? Slice off shark fins for what? Soup. Whales for what?....to use their puke in your freaking makeup?...are you kidding me! We are way more senseless when killing than wolves. When they are done eating what they killed all of that dead animal will be consumed by other life, be it plant or animal. Humans kill for powdered rhino horn and shark fins!....just for starters.

Well, Mikey, you can feel that way if you wish. Speak for yourself, pal. I feel pretty alive, and intend to stay that way. If you wanna go take a dirt nap, don't let me stop you. I intend to stick around for a while.

There is truly nothing more fulfilling than laying in the prone position on a warm clear day with my Remington 7mm magnum, a large Alpha male Grey Wolf in my sights at 500 meters and no wind. That feeling of being in a tunnel, no sounds around me, just my heart beating and the slow release of my breath, hold, squeeze, the kick to my shoulder not even felt, I reacquire my target in time to see a red vapor erupt from the wolf's head.

One with nature. God I Love Montana.

Now you know that's just gunna irritate the hell outta the animal lovers... I hear what you're saying, I do, but you also need to adjust for the current situation around you. By that I mean if Wolves are endangered from people doing just what you described then you should probably hold off for a few decades and shoot other stuff that's over populated. 500yrds? Damn... I doubt I could pull that off, at least not with my first shot....

Advocate and Todd... you are the reason people love wolves and try to protect them. YOu live for death and murder.... you are what is so completely wrong with the human race.

Aunque muchos no lo reconoscan es asi ,no pongan de escusa la familia los hijos yo tambien la tengo ,es cuestion de justicia este planeta es para todos los seres vivos y solo dios tiene derecho a quitarnos la vida !I think it's not fair that we end up with animals when they just do what their instinct tells them they have less and less habitat to be and it's not fair ... We are definitely the worst kind, at least they hunt and all that is natural is for balance, before humans lived in peace and animals, now we want to end up with all of our species, we are a shame, Animals have much more rights than us because if this planet is getting worse is because of our selfishness, our wickedness and indifference!

Although many do not want to recognize so, no excuse to put the family of the children I have I also, is a matter of justice this planet is for all living things and only God has the right to take our lives!

Deshacer cambios

You people that think these wolves are the ones that once lived here are way off base. These are not the timber wolves that once inhabited our forest, these are gray wolves from canada. This species is much more aggressive and much larger then the ones we had originally that these have now wiped out. The USF&W robbed monies from the Robertson Pittman act fund to pay for the transplant which was also done illegally. Why you ask, because you cannot legally transplant a nonnative species as long as their are still native species in the state.

The thought that these are endangered is also a bunch of horse crap....canada is loaded with them!

You whiners don't honestly have a clue as to what this species has done to our wildlife herds, they have literally decimated them. Pretty soon there will be nothing for them to eat but your pets and children as they wait for the bus in the morning for school. You guys better take a much closer look at what has really literally been stuffed down our throats but the Federal Government, and just so you know, they don't just kill to eat, they kill for fun and will leave their victim without taking a mouthful to eat.

on another note. I shoot every wolf I see it is only a matter of time before there is a child taken by one of these killing machines. you people that want these things around are really too blind to see what they are.

Why are you killing the wolfs, it is their land let the wolfs live you morons, euthanize the rancher that is using his cattle as a reason to eradicate wolfs. A few head of cattle a year is what one would expect to be eaten by predators after building a ranch where wolfs hunt. eradicate the damn humans from the area and give the land back to the wolfs. We are the intruders not the wolfs. ya bunch of inbreeds. I think the wolfs have a right to start hunting ranchers.

@bassin93

Maybe some of your "facts" are correct, but what are you doing living somewhere you have to feel that every wolf you see has to be shot? You think shooting them will protect the kids in the long run? I doubt it. Shoot the cattle since they definitely are an imported species and much more destructive of natural lands than wolves ever will be.

I live in a city (1/4 acre lots) and coyotes roam our neighborhoods occasionally in the day and usually at night. Javalina are also seen rooting around eating the bushes. Coyotes take unguarded pets and are brazen, yet none of us feels a need to shoot them. Wantonly shooting wildlife is a weak man's answer to perceived problems. And yes, I am a multiple firearm owner, not your mythic "afraid of guns" "liberal".

bassin 93 In all of history Wolfs run from humans, They are not known to attack humans. They are not killing machines They kill to survive, They have to eat too. you think this earth belongs to you, that is where you are wrong. it belongs to every living thing on it, You are an absolute moron to call people whiners, I am a subsistance hunter in alaska and i do not criticize wolf populations. They were there long before me. wolfs need to be in the chain in order to keep in check a healthy population of animals. They prey on the weak, and only the strong survive in wolf country, so before you go leaving stuff out of the truth to make yourself sound good think again. More people are harmed by bears than any wolf population in known history. you have never killed a wolf You need to recant your statement that you would kill every wolf you see if you ever were to see one. other than on a farm, They are out of sight most of the time. They shy away from humans. as for your wildlife herds They should be more healthy animals Then before the wolfs. In alaska we depend on them to keep the herds in pristine condition. You are a nut to think that wolfs that have been roaming the wild for a thousands of years are destroying your animal herds, it is human encroachment that is ruining the habitat that the herds survive in, therefore ruining the food supply and of course then the weak do not survive, The cattle in this case are the non native species that needs to be eradicated as well as the ranchers, You are for sure in my eyes an animal to kill wolfs just to do it if you truly do. You are in my opinion as a hunter, Non Ethical and not worthy of a hunting license. It is not the wolfs. Grow up stupid. Stop murdering wolfs and stop human intrusion into wild land and things will heal themselves. I am a hunter all my life, Why kill a wolf is beyond me, I just do not get it. you kill wolfs you then wipe out the species all together because they will not remain healthy. how dumb do you have to be to not understand reality.

This is pathetic. I can't believe we still have morons like this around. People need to start taking matters into their own hands and put a stop to this. If I lived there, that rancher would lose all of his cattle in retribution for the slaughter of those wolves. People dont come first wildlife does. People that are stupid, need to be treated as stupid. they need to be put in there place. Do something about it people, the wolves need your help. I am doing something about it where I live, I wont tolerate it anymore.I am done with these idiots around here, and they will be punished for there atrocities against any wildlife. We're hunting for someone here that just killed a baby bear, shot it, while it's mother looked for it for two weeks. Wait until we find that son of a bitch. He will wish he was in hell .And we will find that person.And they will pay for what they did, one way or the other.

"A major conservation group working with Washington state to manage its gray wolves agreed that the pack should be culled but also blamed a rancher in the area for not doing more to protect his cattle."

Now what will happen when they kill someones child. They should kill the wolves then? Kevin you need to actually live in the wild with the bears and wolves.....they would love you to death.