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Subscribe to RSSForty percent of U.S. households headed by someone younger than age 35 owed student debt in 2010 – double the percentage from 20 years ago, according to a new Pew Research Center analysis that found a record one in five households hobbled by student debt.
“We know the total amount of student debt has been rising, but what this study does is help us get a handle on who owes it,” said Richard Fry, a researcher with the Pew Center.
Outstanding student loans have topped $1 trillion, and rising tuition costs have spurred colleges and students to call for reforms.
“It’s been a hard labor market for everyone, but particularly for 18- to 20-year-olds, who have not been able to find work or find work in their qualified field,” Fry said.
View the Pew Research Center's complete report (Pdf)
Households headed by someone younger than age 35 have by far the highest share of the debt among the age groups, Fry said. He said 70 percent of the total debt was owed by households headed by those under age 45.
Among households owing student debt, the average outstanding student loan balance edged upward to $26,682 in 2010 from $23,349 in 2007, data show.
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Fry said incidence of student debt increased in nearly every demographic and economic category since 2007, but households with incomes less than $21,000 were hardest hit.
“While households with higher incomes also had student debt, they were able to shed other debt obligations,” he said.
Other key findings:
- In 2010, nearly 90 percent of the debt was owed by households whose head had completed at least some college education and almost 70 percent was owed by households whose head had finished college.
- In 2009-10, 51 percent of full-time, first-time undergraduate students had a student loan; that was up 43.5 percent in 2006-2007.
- Most debtor households had less than $50,000 in outstanding student debt in 2010, but the share of households owing elevated amounts increased. For example, in 2007, 10 percent of student debtors owed more than $54,238. By 2010, 10 percent of student debtor households owed more than $61,894 (figures are adjusted for inflation).
The study released is based on the Survey of Consumer Finances, conducted every three years and sponsored by the Federal Reserve.
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Lady Christina. It's been six lonely life-times, since I've seen her. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1YEkI1GnZBM
Romney's plan for college is for students to "finish in 2 1/2 years"???
How is any non-wealthy student going to do that without sufficient grants to pay for it? The student is also being told not to take out loans (which will also be given back to the private sector to milk for all the profit they can get). Almost every student I know is working to pay for college already - how are they going to work AND finish school a year and a half early?
Romney lives in a fantasy land - a well-feathered nest that he's never seen over the edge of.
It would be great if he had to go back and take his own advice - WITHOUT his daddy's money.
Ryan's budget DOES AWAY WITH PELL grants.
Then America can fall behind the rest of the world FASTER in the percentage of students getting college degrees (especially masters and PhD's).
Yay?
would this be student debt OWNED by the government?
Next on Obama's agenda: FORGIVE ALL student debt prior to the Presidential election results if they go work for the Peace Corps.
That will get them to go to the voting booth.
Meanwhile, back in REALITY.......the government owns 85% of ALL STUDENT DEBT:
What if someone defaults on a student loan ?
Mr. Obama's policy of job creation was to give Stimulus funding to his campaign contributors and special interest friends working in the "Go Green" industry. Most of these companies have went BANKRUPT costing the taxpayer BILLIONS of dollars and loss of JOBS. Meanwhile, he gave Stimulus funding to CHINA of all places.
NOT SO "YAY" for Mr. community organizer in Chief Obama.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JEgVI-IKpqk&feature=related
Finished in 3.5 years at a state college. Worked summers and part time during the semesters. It can be done with minimal debt. You have to be organized and not choose a major with no future.
"Gimme two shots of vodka," he says, "I have a hot date."
"Absolut?" asks the bartender.
"Nope," the Republican replies, "relative..."
@ lulu98:
Good for you and yes it can be done.
@ RealAmericansFirst
Adults (yes, you are an adult at 18) have decided it's much easier to try to get someone else to pay their way than to find a way to do it themselves. So maybe you work full time for a couple of years before going to college. And during this time, you give up the non-essentials in life like the cell phone, the BMW car payment, the cable/satellite, the cute expensive clothes, the $5.00 a day spent at Starbucks, the eating meals out, the going to to clubs, and all the "luxuries" in life! And maybe you go to a Junior College and take transferable classes - much, much cheaper than university. Or maybe you go to a trade school and learn a trade. Hell, great plumbers, electricians, mechanics, roofers make excellent money. And that's because it's hard to find a good one, because people don't do the trades anymore. They think they should all be wearing a suit!
Yes, you have to make sacrifices in life to get what you want. Nothing great comes easy, and it never has.
It was your choice to seek a degree. Many of you think it was/is something you were/are entitled to and others should have to pay for it. Wrong! The only thing you are entitled to is the bill. You can't find a job in your new field of expertise because all the basket weaving jobs are full and rest went to China. Then there are those of you that can't find work because nobody will pay you what you think you are worth.
It won't make any difference who is Prez the next 4 years, people in this country are in for a rude awakening.
Heck of a job, Brownie.
Paul, let me say that you don't suck on Satan's dick--you gnaw on it.
I worked my way through college in the 1980s (3 college degrees, through PhD) in STEM fields. I have been continuously employed for over 25 years.
While it wasn't fun to work up to 3 jobs at one time (making pizzas, lab work, secretarial, etc.) and riding my bike and buses around until 24yrs old, I never took out a loan or even considered one, even in the absence of ANY financial aid (for my undergraduate degree) or parental help beyond year 2.
So what is the problem these days?? There is a strong case that College Costs have risen because of the Abundance of Financial Aid available. Students also seem to need cars, cellphones, and more expensive accoutrements these days.
While I wouldn't wish it on anyone to work as hard as I did, and it was tough to find work to put myself through school in the late 80s, if I had taken out loans (which weren't as abundant then) I certainly would be paying them back without complaint!!
Yepppppppppp
Oblama and the dem liberal liars are out to buy more votes...........Lets give away free money and let the tax payers pay off the loans the kids took out so they could party for four years and get out and claim they cant find any work and tell the liberal liars we'll vote for you if you monetize our debt and get the SUCKERS who pay taxes to cover our MISTAKES and of course the liar liberals say NO PROBLEM MOOCHERS we will get those tax payers to cover your lazy asses...........just vote for us the party of free hand outs for your vote.the party of scare tactics to SCARE you into voting for us......The party of we'll sell out the USA to buy your vote and then we'll blame the FIASCO on anybody or anything but the actual REAL problem=US!!!!!!!!!!
Truth and Logic. The difference between the 1980's and current was back then the state's(taxpayers) subsidized your education. Typically states payed about 55-65% of the university tuition then. Now it is around 5-15% depending on the state. The cost have to be made up somewhere and as a result tuition has increased. Because of this, it is much harder if not impossible to pay your tuition by working 3 jobs.
Students nowadays don't have the advantages of the taxpayers paying their tuition and that is why they must take out so many loans.
If Barack Obama is reelected for 4 more years, God forbid, student loans will be of little significance compared to other issues confronting this nation.
If this administration can demand the balance of people's home mortgage's be lowered, it is only fitting and fair that a large amount of student loan's be forgiven.
I am retired and do not have a student loan.
I think it is valuable to look at trends. Back when I went to college in the late 60s and early 70s, everybody I knew was taking at least 18 hrs. Now?
Back then also it was required to take a couple semesters of a language. Now?
Last year 60,000 engineers graduated in the US. That is less than 10 years ago.
Each time the minimum wage goes up, there is a tick down of youth employment.
When banks gave a school loan to a perspective student they were drilled about their choice of study and their grades and future plans. Now?
The thing is the more government money available the more upward pressure on tuition costs, the harder it is for students to go to college without racking up huge costs. The reason being is that schools know that the government will just keep increasing aid and thus they can raise costs. It is vicious cycle exacerbated by government largess. Who puts their foot down? Now that people are questioning going to college at all, which will hurt enrollment, schools are now beginning to realize the gig is up.
Back when I was in college, the only students taking longer than 4 years were engineers, medical for the most part, but today it is common since often classes required are rationed out so that students must stay in school longer.
The biggest issue is poor decision making on the part of students and family. Way too many kids attend college to play and often change majors creating even longer time in school. The meter is running and nobody seems to care.
Oh, another trend that is causing havoc is including living expenses when applying for loans. That was NOT a part of any loan when I went to school. Kids worked for those living expenses or parents provided pin money. NO loan was taken out to pay for everyday expenses while in college.
Ryan has been dutifully sniffing long white lines of Ayn Rand's aged and ancient crack, and it is pretty smelly and skunky. His reddened nostrils look like Rudolph the Red Nosed Reindeer.
Gorse and the boys . . state support of public universities has certainly dwindled but that is not the entire story behind the current student debt statistics. For example, my Freshman daughter is paying about $300 per credit at a large public state university, pretty similar to what I paid 20 years ago in constant dollars. All the associated Fees certainly stem from the decrease in state support you mention. While Pell grants were common when I was an undergraduate, educational loans were primarily initiated by the family, not the student I believe and theboys has described very well above what that entailed. The process is entirely different nowadays. Students receive their loans, grants and financial aid before the first day of classes with very large overages for books, living costs, expenses, whatever else is part of the aid, dropped onto a DEBIT Mastercard during the first week of classes. It is like a huge payday for them; getting paid for going to school! Which makes sense in our economy.
The educational institution that I work at is flush with cash, mostly in the last 10 years which seems to coincide with this proliferation of student loans. Remember, just like in the housing bubble or any other bubble, an industry will expand to soak up all available cash.
Perhaps all debt should be forgiven. Doesn't matter how, or what or when, just let people off the hook, let the taxpayers cover the bills.
College costs increased because of........? Maybe the administrators and professors making well over $100k a year. It's amazing that years ago the students learned advanced math and Latin in small little buildings. Now we have "temples of learning."
Gorse - What the states give varies. In Ohio they pretty consistantly have given about 25% over the last 5 years.
The big problem is the Universities are buying expensive perks to attract students. There are more private individual rooms, free computer services, wi-fi pretty much anywhere on campus, new exercise facilities, pools, game rooms at the schools. The Universities are so well equiped that the private are finding space to install exercise rooms, and pools at their student apartments.
This is sad, because the quality of education is less of a motivation, than getting the best amenities.
How they are doing it is with the generous large students loans that can be gotten by students.
jw101 . . maybe that is all part of a larger picture. Why don't you Take Out a Loan and Enroll too?!! You say you like Latin?? Maybe if you are lucky the taxpayers will bail YOU out!!
My personal opinion is that the student loan should be repaid as I own the system myself. But the rate should be reduced to max 4.5%. You might ask why.
1) it will help expedite the return of the principal money back to the treasury.
2) the money is just as good or better investment as a house and would last a life time. Thus if a house can be financed for less than 4.5% student loan should also be financed for less than 4.5% than 7%.
3) It is to the benefit of the entire US economic system that people are educated and the government and private sector should look to make money from the educated consumers from alternative service provided.
4) ...etc
Why does everyone complain about Romney's positions on student loans and grants but nobody seems to remember that it was Obama and the Democrats who decided that only the government could give student loans and doubled the interest rate on unsubsidized loans? The government already has a monopoly on primary education and now they are moving on to higher education.
Why does Obama get a pass for ending private student loans? Why does he get a pass for raising the rate on unsubsidized loans to almost double the prime rate? Why does he get a pass for ending the school voucher program in Washington DC? Why does Romney get blamed for what people think he will do, but Obama always gets a pass for what he has already done?
O'Bummer's reality is for EVERY man, woman, and child to pay 50% more in debt than before he took office. That is not a plan but actuality.
Three sure ways of going broke in the USA, one, go to university, two, go to a hospital, three, go to a lawyer.
argumentativebutfair Obama never passed any law that said that all students loans must come from the government. You can still get plenty of private student loans. There has been no change on that at all. What did change was that government loans are no longer disbursed by banks. By taking the middleman out of the equation, which added about 2% cost to the loans, then the Federal government (taxpayers) save money. Seems common sense to me. Unsubsidized loans are tied to the prime rate. Obama has no control over that and they have not doubled.
Millions of American kids just out of high school making hundred thousand dollar decisions isn't a sound basis for economic prosperity, what?!
Make your kids go to a cheap state school for a while and hold a job to pay their bills. They will get sick of their minimum wage job and mature as a person and know better what they want to do with their lives and be less likely to rack up debt to get a degree in something they end up never using or worse, never finishing school.
And when they are 21 they will be more ready to apply themselves, plus they will be legal drinking age. Which is best because colleges are generally do very little to nothing to discourage underage drinking.
So, here we are again. Everyone wringing their hands about the skyrocketing costs of education and of course the usual solution is to throw more money at it. This time it’s about college costs. Of course one of the main problems, our criminal Public Education system, is dismissed and ignored in any rational discussion about the cost of higher education. Why worry that our elementary and secondary school system is an abysmal failure when we can just throw more money at it and someday, somehow it will magically fix itself. Then when the high school graduate has a hard time filling out the college application form we blame it on the main bogeyman, funding.
We have created an economy based on consumer’s spending money they don’t have to buy things they probably don’t need. We have to change from a consumer-driven economy to an innovation-driven economy. We have to change from being concerned with what you know and stress it’s what you can do with what you know. Critical thinking and problem solving must be stressed. Being agile and able to adapt will lead to seeking initiative and entrepreneurialism. Knowing how to access and analyze information, effectively write and communicate will foster curiosity and imagination.
In Barrack Husseins 2012 Public Education budget, there’s an interesting line in the summary. It reads, “we cannot waste taxpayer dollars on programs that do not work”. It’s interesting because no Federal education system appears to work, yet he wants to increase Education Department spending from $64 billion to $77 billion. Our elementary and secondary education system cost has more than doubled since 1979 and our “National Report Card” the National Assessment of Education Progress has been flat line. But, we have a near doubling of school employees per student and Taj-Mahal buildings like the half billion dollar Robert F. Kennedy Community Schools complex that opened in 2010 in L.A.
In our higher education system the Federal government focuses on providing financial aid to make college more affordable. The problem is, once again, our incompetent and criminal policymakers ignore basic economics. The more our government gives to students the more the schools can raise their prices. This as usual, as are most unintended consequences of our government, wipes out the value of the aid.
The cost of a college degree has increased 1,120 percent since 1979. This is a rate of increase four times faster than the increase in the consumer price index. In comparison medical expenses have increased 600 percent and food has increased 244 percent according to Bloomberg. The AP recently reported that average tuition at four-year public universities has increased by 15 percent between 2008 and 2010. And of course the typical solution is to take more money from taxpayers and then give it back to them as a loan, grant or other manipulation, with interest, and the threat of penalty if not repaid.
Once again, let’s remember that recent federal assessments of literacy recorded big drops between 1992 and 2003 among Americans with at least a Bachelors degree. Also, only about 56 percent of students in four year programs complete their studies in 6 years. More evidence of our inept system allowing unqualified students to go to college.
Both political parties use education to try and show that they “care” about Americans, especially those cute little child-Americans. The reality is, they are human, and as such, what they want is what is best for themselves, votes. When it comes to education Americans don’t like cuts.
The question is, why do Americans want more of a bad thing? The reason is, they don’t know it’s bad. As is the usual case most people think the more you spend the better the product will be. Education is no different. The teachers
unionsgoonions have convinced the average American that our education system has been barely surviving on crumbs for decades. The average American being preoccupied with work, families, and other concerns doesn’t take the time to be educated about education.The bottom line is, the more money our government gives out in the name of help, the more the schools just keep raising their tuition. Until we realize this is a self-defeating activity our college costs will just keep rising.
The Article re: Student Debt is nothing new. No one should be surprised.
Of course, the debt is 1 in 5 people who take out Student Loans, knowing they have to pay the money back.
My partner also took out a huge student Loan and managed to pay it off, by working hard, after he got his College Degree. It takes self- responsibility, never forgetting the Government gave my partner the opportunity to strive for a meaningful career.
It took years to pay it off, while struggling to pay the other "bills", for living expenses..
Why should anyone be so surprised at this supposed "News". There are more people attending College now than ever before in any Generation.
A College Degree Now, (4 year Degree) is as common as a High School Degree, while giving the graduate an edge in finding a better job. Vice Versa: many people who did not graduate from a University, have become giant successes, like Bill Gates, and Steve Jobs; others in the Hi-Tech/other Business categories, or self-employed individuals..
It takes ingenuity, patience, failures, and perseverance to succeed..
The kicker to me is that NO ONE seems to feel like the student OR the family needs to make ANY sacrifice to go to college. (and that INCLUDES not going to uber expensive schools if you cannot afford it, or even doing 2 years at a community college while living at home before going the last 2 to State U.
My dad worked his way thru college (interupted by WWII) in the late 30's and late 40's, he and my mom saved up and PAID for my brother's and my college (altho we were both expected to pay for any 'incidentals' by having a job, and work in the summers) And my ex and I did the same with our kids.
Now, 10 years after graduating from HS, my daughter went back and got her MBA, and borrowed $125K to do it. That included full living costs, and going to a 'top 25' MBA program, both of which she felt were necessary since her Undergrad degreee was in Music Education, and she felt she would both need the extra study time, and the 'Kudos' of a well respected school to over come that.
That SAID, she got her MBA 3 years ago, and in those three years, she has paid off over half of her student loans (which she had TEN years to do, so she is paying it down at nearly twice the required speed) AND bought a condo with a 10% downpayment, AND has gotten married. But here's the kicker. She doesn't go out much, doesn't EAT out much (they like to cook), does not buy faddish clothes, but rather good quality business clothes that last a long time, and is still driving the Honda she got a year before she went back to school.
It CAN be done. But it CANNOT be done without working at it.
Contrast that to an interview I saw last winter of a college student who was protesting with the OWS'ers--he dropped out of an already paid-for semester to camp out, and when the interviewer was asking him if he had a job, he said NO, that he couldn't fit one into his CLASS schedule during the week, and the weekend was "the only time he and his girlfriend had to 'have fun.'"
And that says it all.
The Boys:
An excellent commentary!!!
A young Adult in our family received $11,000.00 in Grants from the Government, because of poor financial circumstances at home. Diligent, and extremely smart, this person just entered College (a Big University who picks their students), and tells me they are taking a "Light Load" (Credits) the first year. Cannot afford housing, barely scraping away. This relative never worked a day in her life.
You are absolutely correct, when you say that some students just drift away the years getting a higher Education, by the time they get their degrees on Taxpayers Dollars.
Saint Ronald Reagan is at the root of households with student loan debt.
No other progressive, industrialized nation has this problem.
Another Heck of a Job, Party of No.
The student debt crisis has been forming for a good while now. Most people don't realize that student loans are unlike any other form of debt. They've had pretty much all protections taken away from them. You can't go bankrupt, and if you do default, you will be hounded by collectors. We've told an entire generation that the way to the "American Dream" was paved through college. We've told 17 and 18-year-old kids, who have no idea what they're getting into, to just take out the loans and when you get that job, you can pay it back then.
Here's something lenders won't tell these graduating students either. They WANT you to default, because regardless if you pay the loans or not, they're insured by the federal government. It's the taxpayer who's fronting the bill, while companies like Sallie Mae get rich off of it. Kind of pisses you off even more about that little bailout in 2008 they got, doesn't it?
And none of those people taking out those loans for their education had a clue that they had to pay it back? I know the liberals want to turn it into yet another massive government taxpayer giveaway. Just what we need.
In most developed nations, if a kid has the qualifications to get into college, it's PAID FOR by the government (or at least heavily subsidized).
Do you realize that any student in the U.K. gets $11,000 a year from the government to go to the college of their choice?
The U.S. is dropping every year in the percentage of students who are getting college degrees, especially graduate degrees, compared to other countries.
One day, we will be very, very sorry.
A B.A. in the Humanities is virtually useless.
My point is, once St. Reagan realized an individual could make $1,000,000, over a career, with a college degree, he eliminated as much government support for students as possible.
For the last 30 years, Americans have gone in debt to have the "priviledge" to engage in a rigged capitalism system, where the Party of No attempts to commodity and privatize literally everything.
People knew they had to pay them back. What people don't realize is how unforgiving the industry and government can be when you can't find work or can't afford the monthly payments.
You cannot compare student loan debt to credit cards or debt from buying a house, because student loan debt carries NONE of the protections that are given to others. Lobbysts and companies like Sallie Mae insured that they were done away with.
Get the facts straight before you rush to judge.
St. Reagan caused this? Really? If he did, why didn't St. Clinton fix it? I put the blame on several factors. The institutions themselves for not controlling costs (liberal mindset); no planning by students to pay for their education other than borrowing the money; picking a degree which generates low income, making repayment difficult; and the loss of the delayed gratification principle.
I saw it when my daughter was going to college. She worked a part-time job to help cover expenses while going to school; her dorm mate borrowed all of the money for her education, did nothing to bring in income, and always had the latest iPhone. Why would you borrow money to pay for a data plan each month?
Stupid decisions like that and we are supposed to feel sorry for these people?
I think it's also stupid to paint a picture that this is what everyone is doing. I lived at home and drove back and forth for 4 and 1/2 years to a state school, working 30 hours a week at a local gym, while still graduating with what I consider substantial debt. The cost of a university position is outrageous, but unless you plan on going into a specific trade like plumbing or something, even the most basic jobs these days requires a 4-year-degree.
What other choice do they have? Instead of blaming the root problems, you go after the symptoms of the disease. The loan industry and Department of Education are corrupt to the core, with a little helping from our good ol' Congress.
@ Robscan
Nice way to paint the whole picture on something you barely understand. People take a little risk in hope of a better future, the problem is the whole system is rigged and we are dancing on it.
You know, people like you also blame these young people when they are not getting a degree, tell him why don't they take risk just like all those rich people and such.
Damned if you do and damned if you don't.
So it's safe to say Bush caused our current situation, and you want Obama to fix it, correct?
Here we go, another "perfect" one. lulu98 above talked about her perfections also.
@ RealAmericanFirst:
You mean the TAYPAYERS pay! And just another reason the socialist UK economy is in the toilet. Unbelievable as it is, they have even a larger percentage of their population on the dole than here!
Sorry, I am sick and tired of paying for people too lazy to do it for themselves, along with a huge number of Americans. College is attainable, you just have to work hard.
Rob, do you ever get cross-eyed looking down your nose at others?
POST #2 ------another greedy lazy Occupy Wall Street Obama Democrat who thinks they are OWED FREE stuff! Maybe if the LEFTEST Professors didn't make $4-500 THOUSAND a year Tuition would be less? YA THINK~!
Not one single nation in Europe allows anyone who wants a college education to attend a college. There are high standards.
As I have told all of my kids...no scholarship, they go to a community college for their basic courses while they live at home. They pick a major in Science, Technology, Engineering or Math or I don't pay or co-sign.
The college experience is great but the hangover is graduating with a useless degree, living in your parent's basement, not being able to find any job and being $50,000 in debt.
I currently owe $10K for college expenses and averaged less than $60k a year wages. I retired full time 7+years ago, part-time 15+years ago and started receiving early SS this year. This will be paid off by this time next year...
This is all that is owed after;
1. Attending 8+years in college plus years of trade schools, GPA was 3.85, last degree received was in 2002, myself...
2. Paying for two childrens college, one graduated with BS in Engr Chem & Bio, the other dropped out on my dime (twice) and then finished on her dime (paid off now) to graduate...
3. Currently paying the cost for another, starting her third year as a Media/Computer programmer...
4. Saving for another that starts in 2+years...
This was done without any grants or government loans, and WE ALL worked while attending full-time classes...
BTY - The Chem Engr is making almost $100k year now...
While it is/was not easy in todays environment, it can be done...
IMO - The people crying, are the ones with the degrees in the Arts and/or attended Ivy League Institutions... Ha! Ha!
AC Robertson--good for YOU. And your kids. The one elephant in the room on this blog is all the baby boomers who grew up having their education paid for by their parents, and NEVER thought about either saving some of their income over the years to pay for THEIR kids' college OR for their own retirement, and now suddenly they STILL want someone else to pay for their obligations.
I was told in HIGH SCHOOL that I had to study hard to get good grades that would qualify me for grants and scholarships. I taught MY kids the same, and my home town in Central MO started a plan that was eventually adopted by the State of MO called the A+ program--with it, ANY high school student who graduates with at least a B average AND a certain amount of supervised volunteerism gets FREE tuition for two years (they do have to maintain the B average) at ANY public community or Jr. College in the state.
All THREE of my kids, and most of their friends qualified.
But too many kids got by in HS on 'smarts' rather than studying, and cannot, as a result, qualify for any EARNED scholarships or grants. (MO also gives a FREE ride to the Valedictorian AND the Salutatorian of every HS--that's tuition AND room and Board) and has other programs of grants to students who do well on the entrance exams. WHICH, BTW, ALSO requires you to have worked and studied hard while in HS.
So now we have a bunch of spoiled kids, who never had to have a job in HS, never had to work in class in HS, and think they should continue to get that free ride in COLLEGE. Well, guess what? ONE of the 'increased costs' in College today is the LARGE percentage of incoming Freshman who have to take REMEDIAL ENGLISH because they don't know correct grammar, cannot spell, or write coherently. They have to take Remedial MATH because they cannot pass Algebra 101, despite MO requiring HSers to take 3 years of math in HS. The also don't do well in History or science, either, again, because they never had to study in HS.
And until they are MADE to realize that NO ONE can GIVE you an education, (much less a COLLEGE one) that you have to EARN it, we will NEVER catch up with other countries in the world.
And AC--of my three kids, my oldest and youngest got their 4 year degree 'on' their dad and me. The middle one, quit his Junior year. Now, he takes some classes every year that HE pays for, working on finally getting his degree. And when he does, it will probably mean a lot more to him.
Having college debt means that you are bettering yourself.
Its good debt.
College debt is the worst debt you can own, for reasons I've explained above. It has no protections, and if you can't afford to pay it back, then tough sh!t. They don't care. They'll garnish your wages or take it out of your Social Security, regardless of whether you can afford to eat or not. Oh yeah, even if you're handicapped or unable to work, it's god damn near impossible to discharge the loans. You can thank our corrupt ass politicians and lobbyists for that one. Meanwhile, the taxpayer front the bills if nobody can pay.
I'm warning you kids coming out of high school thinking about going to college, and you better listen to me well. You had best think hard and think twice before you decide to take out loans to go to college, and you had best think long and hard about what you're majoring in. This isn't the '90s, and there's no guarantee that you're going to land a job straight out of university with just a bachelors. Your guidance counselor and the financial aid departments at these universities don't give two craps about what happens to you. In many cases, they're getting kickbacks from under the table to get you to sign to these loans. They'll paint you rosy pictures, but more often than not, it's a load of crap.
Student loan lenders know most 17 and 18-year-olds don't know what they're getting themselves into, and they take advantage of this, while the Department of Education sits back and endorses it. What a helluva country we live in.
I would say that for every 10 college students, maybe 4-5 actually belong there. If the public education system put as much importance on technical training as it does on a crappy liberal arts courses via college, unqualified students would defer the college option and pursure other forms of education. Also, many, not all 18 year old kids are worthless when it comes to managing debt, college courses, and life in general. Give these kids a few years to climatize and maybe when they are 20-21, they will be more focused and ready for higher education. Currently, much of the student debt is accumulated by kids who should never have enrolled and drop out after a year and a half.
What a riot.
In this economy, with this job market?
Nice try, student loan lender.
College debt you better yourself, but you better much more the guy who you are paying it back to.
Too bad all debt is not that way. Maybe people would learn to live within their means. Fox Newser hit the nail on the head. I was a journeyman plumber & a master electrician by time I was 25, then decided to pursue a degree in Veterinary Medicine. Guess what? I never got there but I did get a degree, which I paid for without borrowing. Had offers from Dow Chemical & the Dept. of Agriculture but chose to go back to the trades. Never had to worry about the debt collector because I stayed within my means. My family never hurt for too much but we also endured some pretty ruff times also and we ain't seen nothing yet.
$120,000 - $200,000 in debt and not being able to use your degree when you come out is not good debt for over half of graduating college students.
Dwight, NOPE, sorry, having college debt AND paying it off on schedule might mean you are bettering yourself, but merely having debt does NOT.
Well,when your degree is in acupuncture or an MBA in business title search for small businesses how can one expect to jump into a job right off??..Many degrees have too much specificality to be of any worth to the graduate or the work world..that's the universities fault not the student's
Even lawyers are having a tough time right now, with a lot of graduating law students unable to find work as well.
I second that. I have 2 roomates getting Doctorate degrees in Law and things don't look rosy for them. I think the only good area right now is in healthcare.
Why blame the universities? As long as they are getting their money, what do they care if their graduates can't get a job? Universities do not believe they are in the business of preparing students for specific roles in the real world. It's the parent's role to be honest about debt and college degrees. When more parents realize that the best solution is for their children to attend a community college for a couple of years, the big schools will get the message and they will lower their tuition costs. If not, they will cease to exist. As long as college loans cannot be defaulted, the source of money for colleges will always allow them to raise tuition costs.
dave20121,
Blame the job market, that requires a 4+year degree to be eligible to apply for the position...
I had one daughter that did the Com Col then the four+year University. She was in a program that was made to transition to the specific four+year institution & degree...
Boy, she was surprised at the courses that would not transfer and even taking 15+credits a semester. The schedule required her to attend a total of 5+years to obtain the 4+year degree. Her GPA was mid 3s...
The daughter currently in College, started @ the four+year institution. Over-all cost is going to be LOWER, even after factoring in the extra housing & transportation cost. And she has much more free time...
AC--you can't just blame it on the job market. I saw an interview on 60 minutes about ten years ago, and Mike Wallace asked this company exec why a college degree was so important when the company would have to 'retrain' the graduate in the way that company did things.
The answer? The exec said, MAINLY, we want them to be 4 years older. And at least that degree means they were able to stick with SOMETHING for 4 years.
The fact is, 18 year olds are not very mature, as a rule. But I hear you about some classes not transferring. You have to be careful.
There are some states that guarantee the community college courses would transfer to fulfill the "like" classes at the state colleges. The problem at some community colleges is that placement testing after admissions makes many students take initial courses that should have been completed at the high school level. Of course, those classes shouldn't be transferable.
But, there is a lot of pre-planning that should take place.
Also, if anyone joins the Air National Guard or Army National Guard and completes their basic and MOS training can attend a state college tuition free.
As MOMaid pointed out, some employers look at college as proof of commitment and self discipline as opposed to actual career preparedness. The idiocy of insisting on studying in a discipline that is not in demand and expecting a job is beyond comprehension.
Unbelievable !
The latest Romney news has it that the stress of being on the campaign trail is causing Mitt to becoming unusually gassy,....and he has taken to openly ripping one and then attempting to walk away from it.
This practice,...known as "crop dusting" has become a great source of comic relief between the running mates.
When Paul Ryan was asked about his boss's 'signature move' he just smiled and shook his head and laughed,..."that ol' wind bag",...his comically large ears audibly waving in the wind.
Paul Ryan L-I-T-E-R-A-L-L-Y calls Mitt Romney "Stench". Think I am kidding ? I am not.
Look it up on FOX NEWS' website.
Those two are a couple of cards,...a couple of embarrassingly unelectable elitist cards.
Really,...these are 'your guys' ?
Ol' Stench Romney is REALLY hitting bottom,...pun intended.
It was a fake article you moron. Unreal.
So what does this have to do with the story?
Romney ripped one off and here you are.
Blame the students and blame the colleges. Many kids go to college who should not be there. Many colleges have endowments worth billions and do not need for tuition to be so high.
"Having college debt means that you are bettering yourself", not always.
But really, I could care less.
I have seen many articles about students with high debt at unknown schools in odd majors. Then they withdraw, never finishing whatever the degree and wondering why they are still flipping burgers with large debts. I went to a state school, no one had money. They worked summers, part time even full time while taking a full load. Some were very tired. None came out with huge debt.
Government sponsored student debt is a scam.
Government sponsored anything is a scam. But lots of people want to Government to fell sorry for them. Which = the mess we're in.
@ Dan from the left coast,
"Many kids go to college who should not be there"
Who should be there Dan?
Qualified people, people taking classes that are useful to society and themselves. People who are serious about getting an useful degree. A degree that will help them support themselves and their family.
To many people are in college that don't fit ANY of these criteria. I see them all time. God only knows how they got a loan. But they did, so pay for for it and stop bitching.
Slim's been pwnd by Dan.
Handily.
See, some time ago most kids and importantly parents were hoodwinked into thinking that a college degree itself meant success. That there were endless jobs available in an economy of endless growth and potential and the degree was your key to the ride!
Just sign here!
So many jobs out there don't need a degree. And if you're upset that the American Dream seems to be dying, and that good paying jobs are vanishing, and you're half awake, perhaps you should ask yourself why that is.
And why kids still dream of that amazing job that college degree with magically bring them.
And why the banks lobbied to get student loan inescapable by bankruptcy.
Clever move there, right?
Dan,
The idea that something has to be useful in order to be valuable is a dangerous notion. Education should not simply be about how much an individual can turn a profit.
Slim Pickens--The deal is, there ARE jobs out there--they just are HARD, dirty, unpleasant jobs that don't pay a great deal.
As my parents taught me, and I passed on to MY kids, there is NOTHING like working picking food, mowing lawns, or working fast food to make you WORK HARDER in school so you WON'T have to do that the rest of your life.
And another good alternative is in the trades, ALL of which are respectable and pay decently. But once again, you cant stand around texting on the construction site, or have your ear buds in listening to 'tunes' while working, and you HAVE to be there every day, and you HAVE to obey instructions.
UmbraObsura (which if my 'useless Latin' still works after 45 years, means dark shadows?) One of my mom's favorite sayings was that NO education was ever 'wasted'.
But she ALSO would add that unless you plan on teaching, then education has to be TEMPERED with learning something that can be traded in for MONEY.
You can ALWAYS study Shakespeare on your own, or later in life, or part time in night classes.
I know I have.
UmbraObscura, what is of value to one, may have no value to another. The job market dictates value and demand for college disciplines and blue collar trades. But, it doesn't take away the personal value of completing studies in a discipline of your choosing. It just means you may not find a job.
For something that should be free...with requirements
What should be FREE, Higher education, food, houses, your car? This really is the Mindset of many people today.
Dan - free, as in 'paid for by someone else'.
You know. Like the government!
Wait, where does that money come from?
Taxpayers!
Whee, what fun, until the tax base shrinks due to Republican tax cuts and a job base with shrinking incomes.
In Thailand most of the Universities are FREE, if you want to be a Doctor, Nurse, Teacher, etc...
But you then have to work for the Thai Government for set periods of time @ very low wages...
Thailand just passed a minimum wage for starting workers with a 4+year degree. 15,000+Baht a month or about $450+USD. But they exempted themselves until after 2015...
Currently College professors make 12,000 Baht a month, usually with housing furnished. I have been told that the Doctors make about twice this, with a little better benefits...
Keep telling us about those CHEAP Universities... Ha! Ha!
AC Robertson: I have spent some time in Thailand. A college education in Thailand is not accessible to everyone who wants one. There are many children in the northern provinces that have no formal education at all. They could never pass a college level course.
The healthcare in Thailand is very good. Many of their top physicians were educated and trained in the US. The cost of living in Thailand is very affordable. So, your wage comparison isn't really fair.
Also, we do not have government healthcare system wide. The US military has government provided healthcare. The college loans are paid for nurses and doctors in exchange for a number of years of service.
A university education for country necessities like the sciences should be free. This is an investment the country makes in our future. This is not socialism this is self preservation. If you think preparing for our future is socialism, I cannot imagine the advantage you give to the alternative philosophy.
@Benet: I can support a limited number of scholarships to pursue specific science and research. However, there are liberal arts discipline that have more graduates who are unemployed. I don't even support giving loans for that pursuit.
Benet - true, true, true.
dave20121,
I currently have lived in Thailand for years, I have a daughter attending Rangsit College (not free)...
Things have changed the last few years, now ALL pre-college schools are FREE, even to illegals in the country. Though there are some private schools, which I sent my kids to, that charge extra for the better quality of education they offer...
Are there children that are forced out of school due to economics, sure. Just like the USA & other countries...
Are there bad Thai teachers/students that result in students not qualifying for College, sure. As in other cultures, you have to WORK/study to qualify for advancement and admission into College...
BTY - Energy, tools, specialty building products, and vehicle prices are comparable to the USA. McDonnels, 7-11, Levi's, etc, charge more for their products in Thailand. The big difference is in; tax rates, labor, housing, health care, & food cost are very low. Also regulations are dependent on where you are in Thailand, but like the USA, money to the correct individual and they disappear..
@Dave even as a liberal, I am inclined to agree. If you want to go to college to learn history, or music, or study business...then that should be on your dime or you should learn it in high school. But we should absolutely be supporting our industry and our science to bring all those jobs back home. Right now, we cannot even fill many of those positions.
AC, I haven't been in a couple of years. But, I believe that Thailand is doing well and the bhat will continue to gain value on the US Dollar.
@Benet: Also, I believe that colleges and US businesses should partner in order to produce graduates that meet the needs of the US businesses instead of allowing immigrants with work permits to take those jobs.
I think the re-patriating of jobs back to the US could happen. Due to the devaluing of the US Dollar, transportation and shipping costs have offset the savings in wage costs. The problem is that businesses that want to repatriate jobs couldn't do it with current EPA restrictions and paying taxes on profits earned overseas.
My last point is, I think colleges should post their graduation rate, average years to graduate and employment following graduation. That way, students and parents can make an informed decision about their college choices.
OR until everybody gets on the "Utopia wagon" and there is no one left to pay those taxes!
It's time to make schools prove they are doing their job or deny them federally backed student loans. Graduation rates below 60% and you don't qualify for a federal student loan; placement rates below 75% and you lose federal funds.
If you start at the local community college, then go to a state college or university, you can come out of this with no or little debt. Students need to focus on a good education which can be had at other than elite schools. Worked for me.
Borrow, Party 4 or 5 years on Uncle Sam's dollar, get a degree that does not pay a living, then want the rest of us to forgive your debt. Good luck look at the ten biggest party schools and see how many of these people went to them, then say no, and shut up.
Plork, boy, are YOU needing some remedial courses in reading comprehension! Some people do indeed take education seriously - and some don't. To which do you suppose he was referring? (Hah! I didn't end that sentence on a preposition! Watch out, there's a semicolon coming!)
Take the fries back to Wal Mart; I'm sure your coworkers would like to share them.
@Plork: It sounds like you need some cheese to go with your whine!
I don't care how serious a student is about taking his or her education, if it isn't in a discipline in demand, it was a poor choice.
A huge number of grads are either unemployed or under employed. WHY?? Because their majors were a waste of time... Ethnic Studies, Women's Studies, Anthropology, Art History, Sociology, and the like!! WHY do so many students take fluff subjects that do not equate to jobs??? Many of these studies are easy and allow them to claim a "degree", even if it is useless. Also, they are not the brightest bulbs in the room!! What were they thinking? What were their counselors thinking?? Most are going to have to go to a trade school and learn a trade.... Meanwhile, they will amass even more debt. Either that of remain in Mom's basement for the rest of their lives. What is worse is that these students amassed $100 K or more for nothing.
Education shouldn't be about how much the student can turn a profit with their degree. Students study things like Literature because it pleasures them to do so (which is what matters). The problem is the absurd prices of tuition, not what the student studies.
As I said, the problem is the absurd prices. A degree in almost any field does not cost $20,000 a year. The prices need to be lowered. As far as current loan debt goes, a good start (but by no means the best solution) would be income-based interest.
Mrs YD--they take those for one of three reasons: 1) they were 'funner' than science or math, 2) They were easier and didn't require them to 'give up' all the fun while in school, or 3) they had NO clue what else to major in.
Umbra--sorry, but if you want to study early morning BIRD calls, or face painting, or Arthurian Literature (a VERY cool class, BTW--but it DID qualify as an elective AND an English class), that is fine, but NOT if someone else is footing the bill for it.
Let's put it another way--When you go bowling, do you expect someone ELSE to pay your way, just because you are enjoying yourself?
If you go to a baseball game, do you expect some one ELSE to buy your ticket, a rubber hot dog, a beer and a pennant?And let's just "pretend" that those 'others ' you expect to pay for YOU to do those things just because you 'enjoy them' cannot AFFORD to do them themselves, even tho THEY might also 'enjoy them'.
See why you should not expect OTHERS to pay for your education? If it is worth while to YOU to take a class in Greek Culture (ANOTHER really excellent class that I thoroughly enjoyed, but it also counted as a history class towards my degree!) then it should also be 'worth while' for YOU to pay for that pleasure.
MOmaid,
It shouldn't cost $20,000 a year to study Literature. Tuition should cover things like book costs and what is necessary to pay instructors, and, for most disciplines, that does not come out to $20,000 a year. Footing the bill for something that is reasonably affordable is a lot more feasible for most people. Hence, tuition prices are the problem and need to be lowered. As I said above, a step in the right direction for taking care of outstanding student loan debt is income-based interest.
@umbra: easy access to student loans has contributed to the sky rocketing tuition prices. I agree that college tuition costs are out of control. But, our society has created the idea that if you don't go to college, you won't be successful. This has driven demand higher and tuition costs as well.
Your idea of income-based interest does nothing in lowering tuition costs. Also, is the income-based interest based on earnings post graduation or on the parents' income? Either way, I don't see how that would lower tuition costs.
Personally, I don't care what anyone studies. As long as I'm not paying a single penny for it. I have three children. They already know that I will not contribute one penny or co-sign for a student loan unless they choose a discipline that is in demand. The days of completing a degree in any discipline and expecting to get a good paying job (or any job) are over.
@dave20121
The income-based interest is not meant to help lower tuition costs. In order for that to happen, states are going to have to set a legal limit on how much their public universities can charge for tuition. Income-based interest is meant to deal with current outstanding student loan debt. In addition to absurd tuition prices, another part of the problem is actually something you pointed out: this pernicious mentality that if you don't have a college degree, then you will fail in America.
I think if state universities and community colleges all charged a limited amount per credit hour, that the administrations of the respective institutions would say that they could not operate within those financial limits. Also, I think that those institutions would limit enrollment through standardized test scores such as the SATs which would close the door to many students with the desire to obtain a college degree.
Honestly, I don't think that everyone is college material. But, I have seen courses being offered that are pre-college level. The universities are charging full tuition costs for these classes. It's almost as if college is being "dumbed" down in order for more people to take classes just so the college can generate more money. Non-profit doesn't mean that people aren't overpaid.
While tuition cost have increased, the big rip-off is the books and housing cost, in the USA...
@ NC State these cost were double the tuition, total over $15K+USD/semester...
@ Rangsit, Thailand the books are all computer programs and they are included in the tuition cost ($1,500+USD/semester). A one room appt cost $250+USD/mo, this includes all services, and is next to the campus.
Only one more child to put through college... Ha! Ha!
Another matter of loans out of hand. Mortgage loan first dip down, now student loan dip down. They don't know where to stop accepting loans even when they see that noboby is able to reimburse these loans! but they continue accepting these loans.I believe they know already, before you student loan, that you won't be able to reimburse, but they still give it to you, just like before with mortgage loans. It's going to take a lot more time with this economy to get you out of this, and you will be never forgiven. So, slow down before you want to get a loan like that. Think about family first, how long it's going to take to get over the loan, do you have enough time in your life to afford a mortgage loan for your family, are you going to be stock in a rental appartment with no hope? Don't count on Obama, this is not a good help!Just as usual: count on yourself.
Ralezo1--no one that I EVER heard of forced ANYONE to borrow any money to or MADE anyone buy a house. Or a car. Or use their credit card.
Blah blah blah. I have a loan for my education and can't find a job. Sometimes life isn't fair. Get over it.
Let's vote out the Tea Party House Of Representitive Obstructionists and Re-Elect President Obama to move our Country Forward.
Stop and think for a minute, what your President has done financially to this country and will continue to do will cost your children and grand children dearly. This country is headed for a crash like never before. If you can't see this you are stupid, sorry to put it that way but it's true.
Dan From left coast--or to put it in a way that is appropriate for this blog--what Obama has done is take out GIANT student loans toward getting a 'degree' in something that will NEVER earn enough to pay it back, and has continued to also max out OUR credit cards.
And as he said to David Letterman last week--"is that a Problem? Not right now, but now down the line it wil be."
I couldn't have said it better myself. SOMEDAY the bill will come due. He just wants to pass it on to the next generation.
President Obama took the Middle Man(Banks) out of the equation with "Student Loan Reform". If this Legislation stays in place, student debt will be a thing of the past. Once again, Thank You President Obama.
You make it sound like Obama paid for it out of his on pocket.
No, He took it out of the pockets of the Banks and gave it to the Students
But yet, none of the protections that are covered on credit card or housing loans exist.
So let me get this straight. If someone wants to go on a spending spree with a credit card, can't afford to pay it when he or she maxes it out, and then declares bankruptcy, everything is fine. However, if a graduated student can't find work or misses payments for his or her student loans, it's thrown into default without any reprieve and the collectors are sent out like hounds on a fox.
And give me a break. You just have to look at Obama's campaign funds to see who's supporting his ass. Some of the same as$holes from the student loan industry. You really don't think they're going to have a word to say about this legislation?
The hard truth is that if you have student debt, you have no real friends in Washington, so think long and hard before you take them out.
Out of the banks pocket, don't make me laugh, you can't be serious? Where did you learn that from?
Liberals are funny people.
tryreality doesn't know what he or she is talking about, apparently.
Student Loan Reform eliminated the middle man. So that means the banks didn't get a cut. You CLOWNS don't know what you're talking about.
I agree with MRs YD ... What are students thinking? I majored in Math, Comp Science and took on a teaching certification although I was always in business. Obtained an Engineering degree. You have to be practical. There are very limited jobs especially when lacking an advanced or professional degree. Is no one counseling these students that the likelihood of being successful is uncertain?
So only those majoring in math, computer science or engineering should go to college? Idiotic suggestion. And the reason why there are many disciplines, so we are not cornered into thinking that just a few things are worthwhile. Idiots always come to the wrong conclusions, and it's no different when discussing the failed system that is the student loan industry.
Interaffairs--Nope, you miss the point. ONLY the ones who are taking courses that will PAY well should take things that will not, unless they can pay for them, or can figure out how to pay the loans BACK on a low (er) paying job.
When you buy a house, did you know the bank will require and INSPECTION and a title search? See, they want to know the place will not fall down in three weeks, making it impossible for you to pay back your loan.
A college Degree is Collateral for the student loan. And you should not be borrowing more than the "asset'' is worth as a way to pay back that loan.
The FAILURE is in not educating kids early on (grade school!) to work VERY hard in school, to make sure they maximize their HS GPA, to enable them to get grants and scholarships. And in teaching them that money doesn't grow on trees, nor is an education free.
MOmaid . . agreed. Student loans are not collateralized like a home equity, mortgage, auto or other loan. So what are we to do if our government grants huge amounts of these (Stafford loans, private loans etc. as we hear some borrowers have upwards of $150,000 of debt) then changes laws to allow a "national default" after some period of non-repayment down the line.
Then the taxpayers will be left holding the bag of the "Student Loan Bubble" . . which is already larger than consumer credit card debt. This seems like terrible national policy, similar to that which led to the banking crisis following the "housing bubble".
Please everyone; settle down; Obama will make sure all gov't funds will cover any underwriting of this debt at taxpayers expense. Please, he will soon tell us it's for the common good of moving our Education curriculum forward to meet the challenges of foreign nationals. Please everyone; don't overreact again as usual to more "big" government....
WRONG, that's what Republicans do, NICE TRY
News Flash! It is expensive to go to college. The problem gets worse when students keep changing their major every semester and trashing credits earned to that point, also going for a degree in a field where there is just no hope for employment doesn't help. A student loan is just that a LOAN and must be paid back just like a purchase on credit, that money is a debt and will haunt you until it is paid. After all we all can't be raised by a single mom and our grandparents and attend Columbia and Harvard.
If you have billionaire arab friends you can go to Columbia and Harvard!
A student loan is just that a LOAN and must be paid back just like a purchase on credit.....
What about when that purchaser of credit goes for bankruptcy?
Interaffairs--when you file for bankruptcy, you do NOT get to 'keep' everything, you know, or get off scott free on paying back ANY of your debt.
But a lender cannot 'repossess ' your diploma. It is an asset, (of varying values, depending on your major) and you get to keep it no matter what, so you should have to PAY for it no matter what.
Student loan debt at historic levels, yet the Obama administration keeps telling the lower and middle class, "the way to move up is to go to college". Really? Then why can't the students who've graduated from college pay back their debt? Because there are no jobs that will pay them enough money to get out of debt. So how far up have those "unemployed former students with tons of outstanding student debt and no way to pay it back" actually moved up because it sounds to me like they've actually moved BACKWARDS. But what I really want to know is who will fix my car 20 years from now? With all the high school graduates going to college and fewer people going into TRADE SCHOOLS, where are the next generation of auto mechanics going to come from?
If you really want to know who will fix your car in 20 years...and you believe becoming an auto mechanic is a good alternative to college....then you should be able to fix your car in 20 years. Oh but yeah....you won't really be able to do that, you'll just still be talking out your azz.
During the late 1960s I realized that to work on the new vehicle systems...
You had to have a electronics background/degree and a industrial mechanics degree helps...
I have both and a ASE Master Auto certification...
The average mechanic is now just a parts replacer. Sorry that $1,000+USD component, you though was bad, did not fix the problem and it can not be returned for credit. Plus the dealer charged another $500+USD to install the VIN...
The real mechanics are required to have the up-to-date test equipment and certifications, which cost thousands of USD every year. Great tax write-offs...
Unfortunately the Dealers are putting the Independents out of business, due to 'dealer only' parts and parts that require the dealer to install the VIN to make them work. Plus the test equipment/computer programs that have to be up-dated every year...
Transmissions that require special jigs to assemble and engines that require new bolts/fasteners during reassembly and/or complete sub-assemblies, repairs not allowed...
Glad I'm retired now...
Two of my nephews chose different paths. One nephew is a welder. The other is in his third year of nursing school. When my nephew graduates from nursing school, he will have about $20,000 in debt and his earnings will be the same as my nephew, the welder.
My point is that the market dictates pay based on the supply and demand of available qualified workers. Just because someone has a degree in Literature doesn't mean that he/she can expect a job if there is no demand for it.
It would be more interesting to know, which group of people has the most loans.
Well if it wasn't for me it would be one less :)
Preditory lending = student loans. Imagine if this lending scheme were to blow up one day. My advice, don't even think of having kids and buying a house. Move back in with your parents if you can and pay these damn loan sharkers off, granted you may be in your late 20th's or early 30th's or perhaps later in age. Maybe one day there might be a option to sell one of your kidneys to settle the debt. But wait, that would be too easy, these lenders make money from interest.
I'm 49 just finishing my degree and I'll be staying on for my masters, its better continuing school when you can't pay for it. If that makes sense?
Taking out more debt in the hopes of being employed 2 years down the road isn't a wise investment.
You don't get it Ranman, tucsand is saying that being in school IS a paying job!! Read my comment 1.18 above. There is an "education bubble" brewing right under our noses; I think taxpayers are going to pay for it later.
If we just paid for those with high GPA's we would be better off. The colleges want to cram everyone in they can for the money. Junior colleges are notorious for keeping people in class for years, just to collect the state and federal funding.
Point is let's stop paying for average people to go to college. If they want it they can earn it flipping burgers or by getting good grades!
Frank...
But let's make sure we always bail the banks out.
Education, like healthcare, should be completely socialized and non-profit. A healthy, educated population is in EVERYONE'S best interest.
Leroy......do you know that the costs of education are going up in the non-profit education area's the fastest and the for profit areas the slowest? Kind of kills your idea.
I agree it should be "free"....but only to those students who are straight A students, not to "everyone"....I work for a community college and half the kids don't belong in college. They don't have a clue....they're lazy, they're slackers. They're moochers. There are some hard working students, they are the ones that should be educated.
Yep! that's the ticket.... free. Nothing like getting it free to make a person really proud and productive.
OBAMA (and his followers) APPROVED THIS MESSAGE.
one small item missed, just who is going to foot the bill for all the FREE stuff.
how do you plan on paying for it? Is it all inclusive? Anyone who just rolls in to admissions gets accepted?
Le Roy, That's what you call communism. That's what OdumbO represents.
Right, lets do that, because the government is already doing such a terrific job with public schools, and public schools are doing such a better job compared to private schools.
I earned 2 degrees in 7 years. I have an MBA and a Bachelor's degree in psychology and I did it all going to night school. I worked a full time job and went to school 3 nights a week and every Saturday. My debt load was zero. If I hadn't been able to save enough to pay for another course, I waited until I could.
Exactly -- pay your way through school....and find an employer who will give you tuition assistance!
Good for you. You sound very responsible. Unfortunately, there are people out there that are not as responsible as you, and you and I and a lot of tax payers are going to pay for it.
Sally in Chicago
That's not exactly easy to do when there are no jobs. If your over 40 your really third pick.
Jamie
When did you do this? How much per credit hour? What type of job did you have to allow you to pay for it? Those who "paid their own way" never give these details. I suggest that you did this 10 or more years ago. I also think that each course cost you a fraction of what it costs today. You may have even had a scholarship or tuition reimbursment from your job. Don't be afraid of the details Jamie...even if it does show that what you are describing has no relevance to what's going on in higher education today.
@Interaffairs: Does it matter how long it took Jamie to complete his degrees? All of those things you mentioned are still available today. There are still employers who have tuition reimbursements.
Here's a clue...once you are 18 years old, the only thing you are entitled to is the opportunity to pursue your happiness. You are not entitled to have someone else pay for that opportunity.