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Kelly Glasscock / Getty Images file
Flowers are seen in front of the Women's Health Care Services abortion clinic and serve as a memorial to Dr. George Tiller's death May 31, 2009 in Wichita, Kansas.
The shuttered Wichita abortion clinic formerly operated by the late Dr. George Tiller has been bought by an abortion-rights group that intends to reopen it as a family and women's health center that will offer abortions, among other services, the group's executive director said Wednesday.
Julie Burkhart said the Wichita-based non-profit group Trust Women Foundation Inc. purchased Tiller's former clinic in late August. Erin Thompson, an attorney for Tiller's widow, Jeanne, confirmed the sale.
Burkhart, a former Tiller employee who also founded a separate Trust Women political action committee, has said for months that she was trying to raise money for a new clinic in Wichita. Most of Kansas, except for the Kansas City area, has been without an abortion clinic since an anti-abortion zealot murdered Tiller at the doctor's church in May 2009.
Tiller was among a few U.S. doctors known to perform abortions in the final weeks of pregnancy, but Burkhart said the new clinic won't offer such services, largely because Kansas legislators have tightened restrictions on late-term procedures. But she said the new clinic will perform abortions earlier in pregnancy as part of a wide range of obstetrical and family care.
Burkhart declined to discuss the details of the sale, but property tax records available online list the appraised value of the property as $734,100. Burkhart said she can't say yet exactly when the new clinic will open or how many doctors will work there.
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"It's about more than abortion. We're about serving the needs of women," Burkhart said during a telephone interview. "Thousands of women right now have to travel three hours-plus for medical services. It's a burden on women. It's a burden on women's families."
Kansas has three abortion clinics, but all are in the Kansas City area. The Wichita Eagle first reported the sale of Tiller's former clinic, based on public records.
Abortion opponents have been watching for signs that a new clinic would open in Wichita, and earlier this month, anti-abortion groups said they expected Burkhart to open one early next year.
"It is tragic Burkhart appears poised to re-engage in destroying unborn children and exploiting women for money," Mary Kay Culp, executive director of Kansans for Life, said in a statement Wednesday.
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In a recent advertisement circulated by email to abortion-rights supporters, Trust Women said it was looking for medical staff experienced in first and early-second trimester abortions and planned to open its clinic between mid-November and January 2013.
Burkhart said the group looked at seven or eight buildings but concluded others were not the correct size or needed too much renovation. Tiller's former clinic, with 8,800 square feet of space, had been listed for sale starting in 2010.
"We never looked at renting," Burkhart said. "Frankly, this building was the best building. It made the most sense for us."
But when Tiller operated the clinic, it was the site of regular protests by abortion opponents, including large "Summer of Mercy" demonstrations both in 1991 and 2001. Burkhart was a clinic employee and ran ProKanDo, a PAC formed by Tiller, from 2002 to 2009.
Mark Gietzen, president of the Kansas Coalition for Life, said in a statement this week that his group, which coordinated years of daily protests outside Tiller's clinic, would restart its efforts should another abortion clinic open in Wichita, the Wichita Eagle reported.
"KCFL volunteers intend to be on-site to offer financial help, housing, and other forms of direct support to abortion-bound women who feel forced into having an abortion by circumstances beyond their control," Gietzen said in the statement.
Burkhart acknowledged the building's past was an issue in the search for a new clinic site but said the good that can come from reopening it as a medical center "outweighs any stigma that people might see."
"We want to work to take the abortion piece of health care out of the corner and normalize it," Burkhart said. “Women should not be ashamed. Women should not be intimidated."
The Associated Press contributed to this report.
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Leave a Comment:
The bible pimps won't like this.
Dave - they sure won't!! The irony is that they care so much about the fetus, but once the kid is born, nobody cares. Unwanted children grow up in miserable homes most of the time and they end up costing taxpayers a FORTUNE through governments systems (like WIC) and prisons.
Good. Last thing we need are Terrorists telling our women how to treat their bodies.
I just hope they install barbed wire, machine gun turrets and a moat to defend against the evangelical martyrs intent on blowing up the clinic. Is this Kansas or Beirut?
Neither will God!
The abortionists ARE TERRORISTS. Aren't you glad you weren't killed in your Mommy's womb?! HUUUH?
marilee, you remind me of my own motto: I KNOW I was wanted...my mother is pro-choice.
And as for the abortionists being terrorist...nonsense! "The purpose of terror is to terrorize,"as Lenin so aptly put it. So if anyone is a terrorist, it is the so-called pro-life agitator who talked about "destroying unborn children"...although she must know perfectly well that she is calling on her fellow fanatics to destroy adult doctors...in order to terrorize the others.
Marilee, "god" doesn't give two poops. After all, he created cancer and miscarriages.
Ok Marilee we'll make it your job to tell some 20 something year old God fearing married woman that she ahs an Ectopic pregnancy and because abortions aren't allowed that she will just have to die.
Below is a medical discription of the condition.
In a normal pregnancy, a fertilized egg travels through a fallopian tube to the uterus. The egg attaches in the uterus and starts to grow. But in an ectopic pregnancy, the fertilized egg attaches (or implants) someplace other than the uterus, most often in the fallopian tube. (This is why it is sometimes called a tubal pregnancy.) In rare cases, the egg implants in an ovary, the cervix, or the belly.
There is no way to save an ectopic pregnancy. It cannot turn into a normal pregnancy. If the egg keeps growing in the fallopian tube, it can damage or burst the tube and cause heavy bleeding that could be deadly. If you have an ectopic pregnancy, you will need quick treatment to end it before it causes dangerous problems.
What people don't understand about Dr. Tiller is that he performed abortions on women carrying babies that were confirmed to have horrific, deadly congenital diseases. He required a referral from a doctor and still did his own tests to confirm the diagnosis. Diseases that I'm referring to include Anencephaly...google that and tell me you'd carry the baby to term. These abortions were not "birth control" but euthanasia.
The only problem with the Democrats Big Government Cradle to the Grave Philosophy is getting to the Cradle...I wonder how much money Tiller the Baby Killers' BFF, HHS Secretary Sebelius has funneled out the back door to get the place re-opened.....To some friends of hers, no doubt.....
@marilee....common sense devoid of religious indoctrination really gets you steamed doesn't it? You have this nagging fear that we are right and you will be shown the fool that you are some day for believeing all this crap from your Holier-than-thou leaders. LMAO every time you poeple show up....
The bible pimps don't like ANYTHING, dave. Nothing new there, lol.
Akin must be so happy to hear this! His small minded supporter are sure to be dancing and shouting praise.
However, as a woman and mother of a daughter, this bothers me. Women must be able to make decisions even hard decisions that effect their body. Late term abortions happen not due to desire. Due to a problem with the fetus. While some parents have no problem raising a child that will live a few days, others want the choice to terminate. In the end, no matter how we feel about it, abortion is legal.
While I understand love for a child with Tristomy 18 (as Rick Santorum has) I personally would not bring that child into the world. My own daughter (age 17) has a serious medical illness and though she is in remission this year, from 2009-2012 we spent 2.5 years finding specialists, she endured excruciating tests, took a great deal of time off of school, and though she is better now, shesays she would not go through it all again. Fortunately she was a minor at the time.
Why is it that as women we are unable to control our bodies? As Akin says, "If it's a 'legitimate rape' then the female body shuts the whole thing down..." By "whole thing down" I'm fairly certain Todd Akin was meaning any intelligent woman would shut her uterus down to anyone thinking Todd Akin was correct in this statement. And while I do agree with that and my uterus is shut to any of Todd Akin's backward believers, I do wonder why anti-abortionists continue to block the clinics, and promote aggressive stances to the doctors performing abortions (also known as a legal service or their job).
If their problem is with abortion itself, change the law. Equally, if it's "murder" they oppose then it's an oxymoron to be pro-death penalty and pro-war. My problem with the anti-abortionists is their stance is inconsistent. They love the fetus, want the fetus, promise to raise the fetus, until you stop and say "Ok, I won't abort, now what? Will you raise this kid? Will you send it to college? Will you pay for Med School? Then, they stop talking and go on to the next female. With the Death Penalty, are they saying that all life is precious? Really? No, they aren't...let's face it. Most of us feel that our lives are just a tad more precious than Charlie Manson's life as none of us have plotted for the heinous death of Sharon Tate and her unborn child or the LaBianca's, nor have we been in prison for the past 40 years. As for war, the anti-abortionists are full on pro-war...again all of it is inconsistent.
This is so sad. That building should be burned to the ground. Or better yet, a family Dr. office for low income people. "Dr." Tiller was a killer. To do the things he did to newborn babies is barbaric. So they would continue to kill newborns if the law had not been changed... ? ugh Glad to see that KCFL will be their to offer support to those women and babies.
So Jessica you really think you have a right to force some to have a child they do not want to have, and if so, are you willing to pay for welfare for that child? If not, S*T*F*U*Y*S*C!
And also you do if the GOVERNMENT can make you have a child, how long is it before they tell you can't have a child.
Protecting human right safe guards both pro-choice and pro-life. Taking away rights from one hurts us all.
Groups like KCFL only offer support during a term of pregnancy. After the baby is born, the women and children are on their own and if it takes them hours to get to a clinic, tough luck. They are referred to welfare agencies where politicians can accuse them of being dependent and victims and constantly threaten their access to education, food and shelter by playing chicken with public budgets. They are vilified for having children they couldn't afford to have or support. Those babies are only precious as long as taxpayers don't have to be involved in their support. Otherwise they are included in the broad classification of "takers" and "moochers." My guess would be that KCFL can't tell you what happens to most of the women and babies they supposedly support.
Tiller was providing legal, medically necessary services. Abortions were only part of a wide range of services that Tiller's clinic offered to women.
The new clinic will also offer legal medically necessary health care services for women.
Jessica,
This is what gets me. You anti-choice folks always post these overly dramatic statements about "baby killing" but when asked to provide scientific evidence of when humanity begins, you either ignore the question or make personal assertions.
Your personal belief that it's "baby killing" is not evidence enough to demonize or ban something.
And talk to the GOP about that low-income clinic, I would think that opening one might entail spending or tax increases.
Well said Sarah. Let's not forget that these religious whack jobs are also against sex ed, against contraception, against abortion, then after the child is born, they are against gay adoption, against SNAP and AFDC and last of all, for the death penalty. Live like Jesus my Irish ass!
Newborns? Where did you get newborns out of abortion services? Oh, I forgot. You just make things up for maximum dramatic impact. Truth has no part of it.
Isn't Tiller the guy O'reilly killed?
Jessica...it's people like you that lead to the murder of people like Dr. Tiller. Does that make it right, Jessica?
Sarah-3043284
If a women terminates the pregnancy it is considered "not murder". If however a pregnant woman was injured by another and it resulted in the death of the supposed "non- human" the person causing the injury is charged with murder. So if the life inside a woman's body is not a real person...how can someone be charged with murder? The same baby can't be human in one instance and a non-human in another.
Luther-6812388
ending a pregnancy and having it ended for you are not the same.
just like consenting to sex and rape are not the same thing.
but i am sure you do not get that in either event.
That's the same reason most late term abortions are illegal. Those laws don't apply until, I believe, the 3rd trimester.
Luther ...
Look at the history of those laws. Most, if not all, were pushed by "pro life" groups which were really after a "legal standing" for a fetus.
Luther, I for one agree ... a pregnant woman who is murdered is one person, not two. An assault that results in a miscarriage is not murder of a baby. As another person pointed out, efforts to make this count as "murder" are generally aligned with anti-choice movements to establish a legal standing for a fetus.
Luther~
Charges will only be brought if the fetus would've been able to survive outside the womb on its own. I could be wrong, but I believe if you look up the Lacey Peterson law (or Conner's law), it'll give you the info. I apologize for not being clearer on the name, but I know it came about as a result of Peterson murders.
aml1313
"ending a pregnancy and having it ended for you are not the same."
In both statements the end result is the same. How can you not see that? There is a third person involved. A child in utero is not a person by choice of the woman. It either is or is not. You can not have it both ways for convenience sake.
jdp in pdx
The Unborn Victims of Violence Act of 2004 (Public Law 108-212) is a United States law which recognizes a "child in utero" as a legal victim, if he or she is injured or killed during the commission of over 60 listed federal crimes of violence. The law defines "child in utero" as "a member of the species Homo sapiens, at any stage of development, who is carried in the womb
The women who went to Dr. Tiller were grieving mothers who had recently received a horrifying diagnosis about their unborn baby. Dr. Tiller only performed abortions on mothers whose babies had a confirmed diagnosis of severe congenital disease. Such diseases lead to dangerous miscarriages or, if they do survive gestation, they are alive for hours, in agony. These abortions were not about birth control or irresponsible women, they were euthanasia.
emily
What a crock! I know many a woman who has used abortion as a form of birth control. Just keep your head in the sand though if it eases your conscience.
Good news for expanding women's health services in Wichita. There is no reason women should have to travel for 3 hours to Kansas City for basic OBGYN medical care.
Abortion is to health care as assassination is to political speech.
harry2cats, we don't feed trolls.
The Christian Taliban at work.
harry2cats, Do some research. The women who went to Dr. Tiller were grieving mothers who had recently received a horrifying diagnosis about their unborn baby. Dr. Tiller only performed abortions on mothers whose babies had a confirmed diagnosis of severe congenital disease. Such diseases lead to dangerous miscarriages or, if they do survive gestation, they are alive for hours, in agony. This was not about birth control or irresponsible women, this was about euthanasia.
Jessica, you're female, right? You do realize that late term abortions are almost NEVER done as emergency birth control, don't you? They're done to save the life of the mother by removing an nonviable fetus (dead, or nearly so).
You knew that, right? What woman carries a fetus nearly to birth and then obtains an abortion? The women placed in such a position are victims of a personal horror and don't need the likes of you telling them they're a murderer!
Want to protest? Go picket in front of the Pentagon.
I suspect Jessica's one of the people who believe it's OK if the mother dies as long as the fetus has a few miserable painful minues of life before it too dies.
Fred, you're male right? Do you realize that no one is objecting to evacuating a uterus of a dead fetus. It is only when that fetus is alive that the pro-life side objects. And life begins at conception.
The overwhelming number of cases abortion is used as a form of birth control. The people organizing the new clinic are going to do first and second trimester abortions. You know, the "Ooops I forgot to take my pill" kind, or the "Darn, I thought I was safe when he and I did it", kind.
So why should Jessica protest against America's men and women in uniform?
harry2cats
you are silly.
i have a pal she got with child while on the IUD, while on the pill and while using condoms.
3 kids. total.
she is broke. and in TEXAS she gets ZERO help.
here TEXAS we make people pay back child support!?
so please go stare at the sun.
Harry2Cats: You realize that this is legal and only so when doing nothing will harm the life of the mother or the fetus. Do you really want to see humans die, because you had a short-sided look at precious life. These clinics are needed, and when fools like you preach that these folks are killers, then we all lose.
There has NEVER been a case, where a late term abortion has to be done.Don't be so dumb and ludicrous. You think a mother is sick enough to have her baby mutilated inside of her?! WOOOW.
kill em all!!
Marilee, you are completely uninformed. What you are saying is completely ridiculous. There are several cases when a late term abortion would be necessary. Check out Gonzales v. Planned Parenthood. Often times in late-term of pregnancy the tests show chromosomes abnormal for living, if living is even possible. Before you make a statement as if it's a fact, be sure to actually do the homework. Or if a person had to choose between dying themselves or giving birth. Don't judge something you don't know enough about.
Late-term abortions are never done lightly or on a whim. They are done after serious medical consultation, when the baby has such a severe defect that it can't live, such as being born without a brain, or some other devastating condition.
In the pictures you often see of these babies if they are born, the hospital puts a cute little knitted cap on them so you can't see the head. But do a web search on "anencephalic baby" images, and you'll see the horrible reality. Just be prepared...
Really! Marilee tell that to my wife she was in her 3rd trimester with twins, because of an undiagnosed hormonal deficiency her body attempted to reject the twins as an unfertilized egg of a normal menstrual cycle. If she hadn't had the procedure immediately she would have hemorrhaged to death and I would not have the family I do now thanks to immediate medical intervention.
You people will never stop abortions because you lie and have broken any moral covenant you might have had .
Oh and by the way I assisted in the emergency C-section of my first son when he went into fetal distress. So don't tell me how precious life is.
Harrydualpussy...And life begins at conception....stupidity begins when you wake up in the morning. You bible-thumpers never get it do you...you are all SO NEEDY you must have something else to blame your failures on...let go and let GOD....the cry of the loser.
Let's remember that not all sperm is sacred. Eggs pass monthly and sperm drops all the time from a guy. My son is a teen and I'm fairly certain...well, let's just say I know it's "around" constantly. Let me assure all religious people out there right now that SPERM IS NOT SACRED!
As for the parents who lost the twins, I am so sorry for the horror you must have endured with your family. I cannot imagine the stress. Yet, it sounds as though with medical intervention it was caught.
Marilee obviously has no foundation for her postings. I have four children and had six pregnancies. Each was different and each child is different. Medical intervention was needed twice during delivery. The fact is all females need access to abortion. I cannot believe the posting above where a woman had a child when she was use an IUD. I got pregnant on an IUD and required an abortion (at age 42) due to placement of the fetus and slippage of the IUD. It was a health issue and I was septic. It is irrelevant though as it is my legal right to an abortion. I will say it was noisy, painful and the recovery was painful as well. I remember it clearly and I resent any implication that I did it for "birth control purposes". I was using birth control. I was not young or immature. I was in a permanent, monogamous relationship, and still am with him. Until birth control is a male responsibility and males carry the fetus and give birth, abortion will remain a legal necessity.
I lived in Wichita for a number of years. Doc Tiller was a good man that helped a lot of women that had no place else to go. I can attest with confidence that Wichita is at or near the top of per-capita religious nut jobs in the country.
If they don't like abortions they shouldn't get one.
This stereotype that women use abortion as contraception is a total lie.
Women have the right to their privacy and the right to have control over their bodies and reproduction.
bill, i still live in wichita on market st. it must have been along time since you lived here because saying were at the top of religius nuts make me dout you ever lived here at all. we have crazy people like any other state and their are alot of us that are pro choice here. btw dorthy and toto says hi everyone
Re-Elect Obama 2012
Not true. I know from my own personal experience there is a basis to this. As a female, when I was in high school in an affluent community, I knew several females who had abortions (sometimes more than one) because they didn't use contraception to begin with. I never knew of an instance with those individuals where she had used contraception properly, but it hadn't been effective and she therefore had an abortion.
That's not to say ALL women get abortions for that reason, but to deny there is some truth in it, is wrong also.
All the more reason that these stupid, thoughtless women should be getting abortions--women like that SHOULD NOT be having children.
Judgmental much?
More logic, sadly. I know someone who got pregnant that way. Not much better as a mother. It does have implications.
So Jessica you really think you have a right to force some to have a child they do not want to have, and if so, are you willing to pay for welfare for that child? If not, S*T*F*U*Y*S*C!
And also you do if the GOVERNMENT can make you have a child, how long is it before they tell you can't have a child.
Protecting human right safe guards both pro-choice and pro-life. Taking away rights from one hurts us all.
Forcing someone to have a baby would mean forcing them to have sex and get pregnant......nobody is forcing these "women" to get pregnant. If you think for a minute that ripping a child from the womb limb from limb is a good option because these "women" don't want to be mothers or have low income, you are severely disturbed. Nobody is forcing these "women" to have unprotected sex, so your logic is "Whoops, I didn't mean to get pregnant, it should be my choice to kill that child then". Go get an education. I love how this is labeled a woman's "health issue". These are perfectly healthy pregnancies being destroyed by hatred and selfishness. If it were a "health issue", it would have to be prescribed by a doctor for real medical issue/concern.
She,
You do know contraception can fail and rape does happen, right?
People make mistakes, or are unlucky, or both. Sometimes this causes pregnancy when it is a very bad time for a woman to have a pregnancy. The RESPONSIBLE thing to do under these circumstances to to procure an abortion.
A fetus is not a child. Stating otherwise is either disingenuous, or woefully ignorant of human development.
...nobody is forcing these "women" to get pregnant.... just a touch of ignorant there?
Anyhow.
i sorry you fail to see that you and the Government do not have a right to be in a humans personal business.
Yes, we already let them tell us so much. But we should be fighting against that, too.
What we eat-drink-take, who we sex, when we make kids or not make them, and who we worship or don't worship should not be restricted by others. it is that simple, you demanding to make it more then it is, does not change the fact that you are trying to butt into some else's life. which you should not be doing or the Government for that matter. you would think the GOP for getting out or peoples lives.
Sarah...of course I'm aware of rape. How may abortions performed a year are for rape? What is the percentage? If rape is your concern, make abortions legal, but by prescription only. Failing contraception doesn't give you the right to kill the baby, my third child was a surprise, however killing her never seemed to enter our minds. As responsibile human beings, you have to live with the outcome of your actions.
EngEsq...it's interesting that you think killing the baby is the RESPONSIBLE thing to do.....that is truly frightening. And if you choose to pretend a fetus is not a child so that you don't feel guilty about killing it, it doesn't change the truth. Go to i-ampregnant.com and see the week by week developmet of a fetus. If it isn't life to begin with, how can it possibly be a life when it's born? Your "logic" is so wrong.
aml313...the Gov't should have the right to tell people they can't kill other people. I think that is just fine. If you think that's wrong, maybe you need to reassess your values.
She,
Here's where your argument fails...
Science has deemed that it isn't a baby, and can't prove when humanity actually begins. If it could, and if it supported your position, then abortions would be outlawed, but it can't. I'll leave the science to Eng, because he's much better then me at it.
That's why this comes down to personal choice. If you believe it's a baby, GREAT, no one's forcing you to perform, undergo, or support abortion. That's your CHOICE.
Some believe it isn't, so it's THEIR choice.
You, without serious, credible, proof, don't get to make decisions for others. And in the lack of a compelling state interest, and evidence to back that interest up, neither can the government.
Life does not equal a human, baby or person. I'm fully aware of fetal development stages, and prior to 26 weeks the fetus is physically incapable of experiencing pain, responding to outside stimulus, or any higher order cognition. These are medical facts based upon physiology.
Sarah-3043284 i would like to add, if we are going to force people to have unborn kids, why do we not take things a step higher and make every one take in a foster kid, starting with placing kids with the 2% and the GOP!
AML,
That would be class warfare!!! All those, mooching, government free loading, babies! No, I suggest once they come out of the womb, we immediately put them to work in Chinese sweatshops, where those hard-working, job creating, multi-national corporations can make the most out of them, in a nice deregulated environment. Get them off the government teat, before they're even on their mothers, that's what I say!
"Less jobs! More babies! Less jobs! More babies!"
Fetuses aren't babies. The Supreme Court has already ruled that non-viable fetuses are not persons.
Abortions from rape are difficult to estimate because not all rapes are reported and not all pregnancies as the result of rape result in abortions. Estimates range from 1% to 5% of all abortions.
However, adopting the DOJ underreporting figures, average implied annual figures for 2005-2010 are as follows:
90,300 reported rapes (FBI figures);
265,000 total rapes, reported and unreported (using DOJ figures);
6,600 abortions in cases of rape (using Holmes et al. figures);
1,218,000 abortions (AGI figures);
http://www.johnstonsarchive.net/policy/abortion/abreasons.html
Sarah...again...no scientific evidence is needed, just plain common sense. Science doesn't need to dictate when humanity begins, anyone with common sense can realize it begins at conception. Is that not how fetuses grow and become babies? Keep fooling yourself into thinking that. Also, knowing that it is indeed life, it does affect others not involved in the pregnancy....the killing of any life is tragic.
EngEsq...how can you be absolutely sure that babies don't feel the pain? I've seen videos where babies pull away from the abortion tools, that seems to be responding to outside stimulus to me. In any case, even if everything you said is true, it doesn't change the fact that it's still a life, the stage of life is irrelevant. Just because it isn't fully developed, it doens't mean it's not a life. You can all hide behind science to justify murdering babies, wording is not the issue, it's human life being ended. So tell me, when is the exact moment it becomes a life then??
Well, it's been fun but I have to get back to work. Good day to all.
sheshouldbekilled
what are values worth if they are dictated by the Government? My faith in G*d/all*h/yahw*h is not made stronger with it being thrust upon me by the powers that be. Freewill and Faith are worthless if forced at gun point.
The Almighty wish for all to come willingly, with out that you make a farce of true faith and human rights.
She,
Oh, how wrong you are. Legally, to expand government power to a point where it's so intrusive that they can dictate what citizens do with their bodies, OH YES YOU DO NEED EVIDENCE.
Your "common sense" is not science, but belief. And until you can prove it, no one need agree with you. THAT'S the point.
And I never said it wasn't life. Lot's of things are life, or have potential for life.
I am a mother of 2. My mother-in-law at the time wanted me to get an abortion because I was young, and so was her son. I couldn't/wouldn't/didn't. My mistake=a miracle in life!
I believe that abortions should be up to the women who chose to have them.
However; I feel like in a way, it gives a lot of women an excuse to be
careless. I understand that birth control may/or may not fail, and I am aware
of rape and the circumstances around it--but to me it still feels like an
escape for women who like to have too much "fun". I live in
Kansas...close by to this clinic. I was not in shock at all when this man was
murdered..only for the fact that there were a lot of people upset not only at
the fact of abortion, but the late term abortion.
Sarah--I do not know you personally but I see your comments ALL the time. There
are people here to voice their opinions, not have you over take them. The only
thing I have read that you have said, and I actually agree with it this...there
are those who believe its a baby and there are those who do not. But late term
abortion is completely wrong. 100%.
Eng--
prior to 26 weeks the fetus is physically incapable of experiencing pain--that
may be true but what about late term abortions such as this physician did?
Abortion
is a choice-I agree with it 100%. BUT! there are women out there that will
always have the freedom to do as they please...having too much fun (not the
rape victims or the ones who's birth control was defective), with an excuse in
their back pockets. Too many of them---and so many people who wish they could
have a baby, but cannot.
Its
a sad story all around. Babies are amazing! :) I have a 5 year old and a 10
month old. I love them with all my heart.
sheshouldbekilled
answer me this:
why does the chance of life mean so much to you? Because i am sure you don't care about any one else out side of that. i am sure you think buyers should beware. and i sure you are pro pulling your self up by ones boot straps.
so are you pro-bag of cells to off set the POS you are the rest of the time????????????
Post viability (before 26 weeks), in Kansas, the abortion of a fetus can only be done if the life of the woman is in jeopardy or the fetus is going to die or have a serious disease (medically necessary abortions).
Further, research has indicated that fetuses brains are pretty much soaked in an anesthetizing hormone, which lessens tthe trauma of later childbirth, but also reduces or eliminates pain in the fetus while in utero. More research needs to be done in this area however.
Sarah and Eng Esq
It is human and it is growing, therefore, it is a human life. It matters not what name you give it at different stages--blastocyst, embryo, fetus or baby. It is human, and it is alive.
Ther are none so blind as those who WILL not see.
LiveLaughLove87
you are telling the truth,
anti-abortion laws are a back door into peoples sex lives, which again is not some thing we should let the government dictate.
I did not know that. Thank you for a response!
The same family that wanted me to have an abortion--my sister in law went there before I even knew her...for a late term abortion. (at this clinic actually) She did not tell the father of the baby that she was going..but knows the sex of the baby, heard the heartbeat, felt the kicks and everything. When she met up with her boyfriend--all she said is "its done" --of course he's asked whats done...so on and so forth. i feel bad still to this day...he never did find out the sex.
I get the "choice" factor" I really do...but I believe late term abortions are still wrong.
harry2cats
X-Cons are humans too, would like to have one live with you?
Harry,
Your saying that doesn't make it true. If what you say was true and/or provable, abortion would be outlawed. It's not.
LiveLaughLove87
it would be nice if we could let wrong be in charge of our lives but that will never happen.
because it is wrong to let people die because they can't afford a doctors care.
its wrong to let people starve.
its wrong to wage war.
its wrong to hate people.
its wrong to let people live on the street.
its wrong to let the buyer beware.
and its wrong to use "life is unfair" as an excuse to be indifferent to others suffering and to deny them relief.
its wrong that Insurance is a private for profit business that makes money by not paying out.
its wrong that Food companies lie for profit.
so yea. give me break.
LiveLaugh,
Please quote where I've ever told someone they weren't allowed their opinion?
Otherwise, what you call "over taking" I call pointing out the lack of logic in their positions. Positions, which by the way, they try to force through or uphold in our legislation.
Now, are done "scolding" me? Or should I go write 99 times, "I will not articulately debate with those I don't agree with"?
sheshould, My roommate is unable to carry a baby to term without severe risk to her life, and if she attempted to carry a baby to term, the risks that it would be born with severe defects, or die before term, is also extremly high. She takes birth control pills to avoid pregnancy. Now, my questions are these: should she never have sex? Should she put herself at extreme risk for a pregnancy that most likely will not come to fruition, or possibly have a severely damaged child that would put extreme financial stress on her and probably the state? If her birth control fails, what should she do?
Now your logic on correct grammar...should I point that out in the simple mistakes you make? No...because its childish....
I was not scolding you, simply putting that you over power a lot of individuals on here because your opinion/fact is the one that should always have the last say. Also, you're on here quite a bit--which honestly is sad. I have read many comments where you are targeting the "welfare" people, and how the government raises their babies--truth is, if you dont want to work for a living/or would rather post non-stop all day on a site...quit and let someone who's been looking for a job for awhile have your position.
aml1313-- I didnt say anything directed towards you after you stated I was telling the truth. I am confused on your statement "give me a break". sorry.
Live,
And yet, you just did. Shucks, i dunno, that I; use grammer badly.
Thanks for the unsolicited, holier than thou opinion on my life. I didn't know you were the Newsvine police. If you find it sad that I post about the ISSUES a lot, what does that say for someone who's posting about another PERSONALLY?
Really, can you copy and paste links to those posts?
Dude, are you big brother? How on earth do have any insight into anything except my positions on different topics?
Listen, either you're too afraid to actually discuss the topic, or you're woefully unsatisfied with your own life, that you feel the need to attack a strangers. Which is it?
P.S. You really seem like you live up to that moniker of yours. Quite loving. Was my grammar up to your standards this time?
Sarah,your #1 on my list! (the good one) Patience is a virtue. I wish I had more.
Dave,
Thanks! I never knew I was worthy of such attention, i.e. LiveLaugh's strange obsession. Kinda creepy, but I guess any publicity is good publicity, right?
I have to admit, I'm not that patient though. I might have fired off a little personal message to him/her. :)
Sarah--
In
the beginning of even speaking towards you I stated an "opinion" on
how I felt you were a bit over powering on others. Then I agreed with you about
a certain statement you made. Sarcasm and hate are generally how you approach
people. I myself, do fit to my name pretty damn well. I just do not care for
those who constantly put others down, oh I'm sorry...how did you phrase is?
Their "logic"
I
made a statement saying if you have plenty of time to spend online rather than
working, don't judge the people on welfare. you have done it in several topics
here on msn. I will not, and do not care to go back through all the topics I
read to find your picture/name and comment. You know as well as others know the
type of comments you like to leave. They're not just logic..they're full of
sarcasm. A terrible trait to have.
I
have already discussed the topic. I am not afraid of discussing it at all. That
is honestly an uneducated statement. You judge people like I have said, and
have proven it in your comment just now to me 'or you're woefully unsatisfied with your own life,
that you feel the need to attack a strangers."
Yeah, I don't think so. My life is actually a damn good one. I bust my
ass every day to support my children and to live a happy life. I cannot stand judgmental
people at all. I do not attack people. You....my dear, like to read into too
much....DRAMA! You like your name everywhere...go on about your day. Whatever
it is that you do.
I adore Sarah-a woman after my own heart.............(and intelligent and articulate and caring and kind) Ya'll quit picking on our Sarah!
It's funny that people want you to listen to them, but not have an opinion yourself.
LOL at that
Live,
Again, please tell me which articles I've posted on where I've attacked/judged people on welfare? Since you're confident in saying I have, I'm assuming you can point them out specifically? I mean, all you have to do is click on my page. Since you claim I do it so often, they should be easy to find.
In fact, I encourage EVERY and ANYONE, to try to find a quote from me talking badly about those on welfare.
And yet, that's exactly what you're doing right now.
Did I say that before or after you started posting about me? So, I should just let you post your unsolicited, sanctimonious opinion about me personally? That's okay for you, but defending myself makes me judgmental?
Then why are you feeling the need to clarify that to a complete stranger?
Well, my mom always told me, "Better to be a smart ass, than a dumb one".
Aye, aye, boss.
Nope, that email wasn't grown up of me at all. Thanks for posting it for me though. Now, people can see it and I won't get suspended.
You know, I need haters in my life, they keep me humble. I have to say though, your seeming obsession with me IS kinda creepy.
Everyone,
Wait until you see how immature I was in my second message to him/her!
sarah 9 comments on 1 article, really. cant you two post acomment and move on? if not i suggest you and live,love settle it with mud wrestling ,us guys would like the entertainment
I don't have statistics, or articles to cite but MY wife and I (mostly her) went through 6 pregnancies only 2 of which bore children. In that time we got to know quite a few other couples pretty well and at times suffered along with them. Not one of those women I can think of wanted to have an abortion but had too, Ectopic pregnancy, run away diabetes, hormonal problems, undiagnosed heart problem etc.
Sometimes it's not a choice and you anti abortion people don't get that.
When all is said and done I don't think you are really pro-life either.
Well bipolar, at least she can spell.
Bipolar,
You're on the wrong website if you're looking for mud wrestling.
That's "Sarah's Evil, Liberal, Loud Mouthed, Grammatically Incorrect, Agenda... After Dark".com
P.S. Now you can make that 11.
It's sad this took so long. The delay in re-opening the clinic showed these psychos that murder will get you what you want (at least for a few years).
Pro-lifers need their heads examined. Don't like abortion? Don't get one. And support comprehensive birth control, post natal support, single parent welfare and adoption services. But don't tell another person what to do with their bodies.
Well that's the problem...the same ones who are against abortion are the same ones who are against birth control, planned parenthood, sex education, "entitlements", etc. What do they give us as a solution? Aspirin. Realistic, isn't it?
Why complain? Dr. "baby killer" Tiller was aborted.
Stupid comment merely intended to inflame.
Tiller never killed a baby, and abortion can only be performed on a fetus, which he clearly was not.
Tiller was a zygote who got flushed.
These baby killing so-called doctors will need to wear bullet proof vests instead of white hospital uniforms.
Ok psycho.
You sure do hold life sacred.
so actual humans are worth less than a sack of cells that might be some one some day?
Abortionists are serial killers. The normal rules of arrest, trial, conviction and execution do not apply to them. The day will come when they and their staff will be hunted down like the skunks they, are and dealt with in a manner that should serve to keep others out of the business, no matter how lucrative it is.
"He didn't build that!"
stupid anti-obama offtopic nonsense. thanks for the "contribution". :)
A baby is a gift from God to be cherished and not destroyed; if the baby is unwanted by the mother, there are any number of infertile couples who will accept the baby. Abortion cheapens life; we are not Nazis.
Nazi's? Really? We always have to go there, don't we? Slow down on the drama.
We aren't a theocracy either madireddi, you don't get to use the bible to tell us what we should do with a ball of cells.
madireddi? is cutting social programs cherishing life? How about being hateful to gays is that cherishing life? Please tell me how many infertile couples are taking in non-white kids for adoption? and why are group homes over flowing? and while i am it how kids have you adopted?
Gift from god. Strange, I thought they were a gift from a broken condom...
What I want to know, is if God is so against abortion, why doesn't the "Pull and Pray" method work better?
or a date rape or a legitimate rape...
Mad- I think when children starve to death it cheapens life. I think when children are killed in wars it cheapens life. I think when children die of abuse it cheapens life. There are a lot of children on this planet right now who need help and are not getting it.
Obamacare will pay for the abortions to come. Why did the city not rezone the clinic as a butcher's shop earlier?
You could either seek the truth or seek the pedestal. in repeating the lie of Obamacare paying for abortions you make it clear that it is not the truth you are seeking.
it is a shame that bible beats made sure that would not happen. why we let bible beats into our Government is beyond me. i wish we had a rule about separation of church and state.
Healthcare Reform Act does not overturn the federal restriction on abortion funding. Stop lying.
Give the baby a choice.
while TexasA' that would be nice but ADULTS can't even legally kill them self or get help to do it, so that would not work anyway. See how silly are laws have gotten?
The definition of insanity is?
Teabaggers.
These are brave people providing women's health care including early term abortion. I hope the evangelicals and teabags don't kill them too.
What about the BABY'S HEALTHCARE? HUH?
marilee, these clinics provide much needed prenatal care for women who plan to carry their pregnancies to term. Are you against that?
myopinion
Think of it this way. You have a neighbor. He cuts his grass ever week, invites yiou and your spouse over for BBQ, goes to church pays his taxes, and once a week BUT ONCE A WEEK HE RAPES YOUR DAUGHTER, Are you against that?
azindy: That's correct. And their motto is "you make em, we break em. No fetus ever beat us.
Of course they would re-open this abortuary. Murdering babies is a BILLION dollar a year industry. There's a LOT of money to be made.
I dunno ask Romney about stericycle.
This is all part of the Democrat's War Against Women. 150,000 females are murdered every year by the for-profit abortuary chain doing business as "Planned Parenthood".
Nazi eugenicist Margaret Sanger founded the for-profit abortuary chain doing business as "Planned Parenthood", as a way to control the black population. Fully 70% of the babies murdered there are black. They've even been caught accepting donations earmarked to murder only black babies. Maybe that's why, even after 230+ years, blacks still only make up about 12% of the general population.
Democrat organizations like the Ku Klux Klan must be really proud.
Well, no, Vern. Yes, Margaret Sanger held objectionable racist views, but actually she opposed abortion, and created family planning clinics that were welcomed by women, including women of color. Abortion did not become legal until long after Sanger's time. The contraceptive and women's health service they provided at the time were not available elsewhere.
What Hitler did to the Jews is like spit in a rain barrel compared to what "Planned Parenthood" has done to America.
Hitler only murdered 6 million innocent Jews. The BILLION dollar a year for-profit abortuary chain doing business as "Planned Parenthood" has murdered 50 million innocent babies.
Maybe Hitler would have gotten better press if he'd referred to his anti-semitic genocide as "Planned Jews".
Oh, Vern! You silly boy. Trying to relate everything to the Holocaust, from Zimmerman, to abortion, to Obama's re-election. You really need to find new and accurate comparisons. The one you rely on is fallacious.
I notice all the abortion advocates have already been born.
Hypocrites.
The biggest problem with abortion advocates, is that their parent's didn't agree with them.
So the American branch of the National Socialist (Nazi) party has found another abortician.
I am willing to bet there is not another right to lifer willing to cull the herd. No cajones!
So you are saying that divorce, abortion and homosexuality are virtues?
With the enormous overpopulation of the planet, I think these women should be allowed to call their offspring fetuses until they are at least 5 years of age. That way if they don't want the fetus or cannot afford it, they can bring it down to the clinic and have it choiced. This will save the US and the rest of the world billions of dollars. It is nothing more than a choice, what is the big deal? This way these women can go on being productive without the hinderance of a fetus out running around costing money and raising chaos. These women have rights!!
The women who went to Dr. Tiller were grieving mothers who had recently received a horrifying diagnosis about their unborn baby. Dr. Tiller only performed abortions on mothers whose babies had a confirmed diagnosis of severe congenital disease. Such diseases lead to dangerous miscarriages or, if they do survive gestation, they are alive for hours, in agony. This was not about birth control or irresponsible women, this was about euthanasia.
"Once the cervix is sufficiently dilated, the doctor uses an ultrasound and forceps to grasp the fetus's leg. The fetus is turned to a breech position, if necessary, and the doctor pulls one or both legs out of the cervix, which some refer to as 'partial birth' of the fetus. The doctor subsequently extracts the rest of the fetus, leaving only the head still inside the uterus. An incision is made at the base of the skull, a blunt dissector (such as a Kelly clamp) is inserted into the incision and opened to widen the opening,[4] and then a suction catheter is inserted into the opening. The brain is suctioned out, which causes the skull to collapse"
Yes Emily, I agree, some people just can't get that through thier head. They need to look at the whole picture and understand the real issue.
Vern, Vern, Vern..."partial birth" abortions were outlawed many years ago. Do try to stay current on the issue.
Hopefully whatever doctors work there will have better protection against Christian terrorists, and the FBI will treat future threats more seriously.
Scott Roeder should have been kept in prison after his first several offenses. If he had been a great doctor would still be alive.
Tiller was a money-grubbing, bloodthirsty, partial-birth abortician, and any baby with a birth date after 05/31/09 should be thankful that Roeder chose to give up his life to save theirs.
Vern, Tiller was a hero. He performed late-term abortions ONLY on mothers whose babies had been diagnosed with horrific congenital diseases. Google anencephaly and tell me you'd carry that baby to term. What he did was euthanasia. He required a referral from a doctor and then he confirmed the diagnosis with his own tests, including an ultra-sound. These are babies that would likely not survive gestation and, if they did, they would be alive and in agony for hours at most. Have some empathy.
"Once the cervix is sufficiently dilated, the doctor uses an ultrasound and forceps to grasp the fetus's leg. The fetus is turned to a breech position, if necessary, and the doctor pulls one or both legs out of the cervix, which some refer to as 'partial birth' of the fetus. The doctor subsequently extracts the rest of the fetus, leaving only the head still inside the uterus. An incision is made at the base of the skull, a blunt dissector (such as a Kelly clamp) is inserted into the incision and opened to widen the opening,[4] and then a suction catheter is inserted into the opening. The brain is suctioned out, which causes the skull to collapse"
I have empathy for the baby with the scissors jammed through the back of it's skull.
Emily
Roeder was the hero. He did what he did knowing full well he would be caught. He sacrificed his life for the dozens, maybe hundreds of babies that got a chance to be born.
Not only that, but for every abortionist who dies violently, who knows how many OB-GYN students decide to never do abortions themselves. Give credit where credit is due.
Roeder is a terrorist and a murderer. In the cases of the late term abortions performed by Dr. Tiller, either the baby, the mother or both would not have survived.
I can't wait to call you out for criticizing supporters of Islamic terrorists because you obviously have no problem with their tactics as long as you agree with their reasoning.
Well redphish I have to disagree with you.
Islamic terrorists see the whole non-Islamic world as the enemy. Thus the car bombs to kill as many as possible.
People who kill abortionists have a specific target in mind. They don't want to kill you and me. They don't even want to kill everyone who is pro-choice.
Abortionists themselves are not driven by any such altruistic notions, undifferentiated or specific. For them the motovation is money--lots of it. All that drival aboiut "helping women" is just than...drival.
See now?
Most of us see terrorism as wrong no matter how many people are killed or what the motivation on the terrorist happens to be.
Really.
So are you just as concerned about the Korean shop owner who was killed for the few dollars in his till? Or the cab driver who died during a holdup? How about the man whose trophy wife couldn't wait for him to die and hired a hit man? There are 30,000 homicides a day in the US. Why is the abortionists life worth more than the rest of them?