While any abuse is abhorrent, I have to agree with the article that the number of cases is surprisingly low for an organization the size of BSA. If theses files are even close to an accurate representation of the level of abuse that has occurred in BSA then I would say the they have been doing a far better job than most similar organizations in keeping kids safe. They fully admit that there have been times when they did not do enough, but I would imagine that a review of the actions of any similar organizations for as long of a period of time as these records cover would reveal some lapses. In fact, I would suspect probably a lot more lapses than these files show. Any organization that is centered around large groups of kids will unfortunately attract the worst of society along with the best. Organizations do there best to keep the worst out, but it is unrealistic to expect them to succeed 100% of the time. No matter how careful they are, some of these perverts will slip through. The number of cases involved, considering you are talking about an almost 20 year span for a huge national organization, is actually much lower than what I would have expected. The key is that once they are identified they are dealt with appropriately to limit the damage they do. I think that BSA has been relatively successful for an organization of it's size and think that this is partly a witch hunt being driven by people who want to tarnish the image of BSA for their own reasons. In particular, there are a number of gay rights groups that have targeted BSA and would like nothing more than to find a way to smear the organization. I hope this witch hunt by some money grubbing lawyers and there clients does not damage the organization too much.

Yeah, let your kid be a boy scout. If they're not sexually abused, they will probably be bullied, harrassed and emotionally abused. The BSA should just read BS.

ANY organisation will hide information of abuse of ANY kind to save its own ass. Catholics, Mormons, Boy Scout Leaders, child care organisations etc. People that want to molest kids will gravitate toward these groups and regular screening will let quite a few slide by and get in.

JS- in SD: So you support the BSA, though they acknowledge that they hid from the Public that there were pedophiles in their midst... in positions of power. You suck.

I bet you were all over Penn State Coach Paterno, which was 10 maybe 12 boys. And yet, here there are possibly thousands and you still say they did a good job overall. You friggin hypocrite.

i was in the boy scouts,but i got kicked out for eating a brownie.

'Insufficient' is that a new synoym for nonexistent?

'Insufficient' is that a new synoym for nonexistent?

Scott, you are an idiot.

Mark, unless you have proof that the entire organization was responsible for the acts of a FEW people, you are just blowing hot air.

Allen,

Public Schools should be added to your list then...

Congratulations Bill, it took you three posts to say absolutely nothing worthwhile.

I guess I'm 2 behind you then Scott. It took you only 1. You overachiever, you...

Well Bill, you've shown that you support buggering children. Penn State lost their athletic program because of it. High ranking catholic clergy who knew about it went to jail. But the BS get to walk because they are some modern day GOP Hilter Youth?

I don't care , and the public knows the truth, GAY MEN ABUSED THSES YOUNG MALES !!!

Boy Scouts admit response to sex abuse was 'insufficient'

Well look who just caught up!

No Johnny, child molesters abused them. Forget the fact that no psychologist would classify the sickos as gay, the molesters would not even identify themselves as gay.

I was a Boy Scout in the 80's and I never experienced any form of abuse from any Scout leaders. I recall even before I aged out as a youth and while I was on camp staff, the BSA did A LOT to promote awareness and provide protection to the youth in their program. They required then, and still do, "two-deep" leadership whenever an adult was around youth. This means that except in parent/child scenarios, there had to be two adult present. Boys could not tent or shower with an adult unless the adult was a parent. I witnessed their youth protection program grow and become better in the 80's and early 90's. Since then, I have only witnessed one local megachurch that had anything close to level of training and protection I witnessed in the BSA.

I worked in two different camps in two different councils and it was taken seriously in both. As I moved up in the camp leadership, I even gave the training and administered the policies. The adults I worked with as a volunteer were just as serious as I was about integrity of the program.

I know of individuals who were banned and for whom authorities were notified. Unlike priests in the Catholic church, I know of NO leaders who were ever shuffled around from one troop to another. As a youth in the BSA, as well as an adult, I don't recall ever receiving any training or awareness of child predators and how to protect the youth from predators and to protect myself from allegations other than the training I received from the BSA. I drove a school bus in a major metropolitan area while I was a college student. I transported elementary and high school age children on multiple routes. The county I drove for provided little if any training. I firmly believe that the BSA was AHEAD of many, if not A LOT or even the majority of, child oriented organizations in protecting children as well as equipping adults to protect themselves from allegations. Certainly, there has been and will always be cases where systems break down or were not adhered to and abuse can and does happen.

I live in a neighborhood with lots of small children, including my own, and quite frankly many of my fellow neighbors and parents seem to not have an awareness of the need to protect their children. They think nothing of their own children going over to play with the kids at another house when there is only one parent or adult present. It was a surprise to my own wife, who is very protective and vigilant at protecting our own children, that I was uncomfortable with other children being in our home to play with our daughter. I attribute my awareness to my training in the BSA. If my daughter ever has friends over, I make sure the blinds are open and the front door is not locked. If the weather permits, I even open windows. I have often sat on the front porch with the window open while she plays inside with her friends.

I can also attest that a neighbor's husband a few streets over also insists that another adult be present if children other than his are present in his home rather than him be alone with them. He was also in the Boy Scouts.

Even with major issues such as the breakdown in protections the BSA implemented, the scandal of the Catholic Church and with crafty predators like Jerry Sandusky, I am still amazed at the general lack of concern, lack of awareness and lack of systems of protection that many parents and organizations have. It seems that far too often parents are ready to let someone else or some thing take care of their own children so they can simply get a break. I see this when parents go to restaurants with play lands and they just drop them off while they go drink their coffee and read the newspaper. They are not even aware of what their own children are doing, much less what someone else could be doing to their children. I am not insinuating or implying that parents are to blame for their own children being molested - nothing could be further from the truth of the point I am making. My point is that from my perspective, many parents are too trusting and simply under aware of the dangers their own children face. I sincerely, wholeheartedly and adamantly believe that the training I received from the BSA heightened my awareness above that of the average adult.

I am not afraid to allow my son to be involved in a Boy Scout troop, but I will also be involved as well and at a minimum I will expect the level of protection for him that was afforded to me when I was a youth in Scouting.

Isn't the BSA and Cub Scouts a Christian based organization? I doubt my mom would have been a Cub Scout leader if she knew that back then. But damn - I sure looked good in that blue uniform.

Great post. You show good understanding of the problem. BSA is a little screwed up about the whole "God and Country" thing. Any young man or boy who wants to learn skills and strive to achieve merit badges, and awards and become a productive member of society, who happens to be "non believing", should not be prevented from being a scout.

Two deep leadership is the key to having a safe and rewarding scouting experience as well as assuring church, club and sports organizations keep our children from being harmed by preditors.

btw I hold Arrow of Light, Silver and Golden Beaver awards and am quite proud to say, a 50 year member in The Order of the Arrow.

Life Scout and retired scout master. B.T. Jones

In light of recent events, I would think that the Boy Scouts would at least have the sensitivity to change the catch phrase "two deep leadership"

@Johnny

I don't care , and the public knows the truth, GAY MEN ABUSED THSES YOUNG MALES !!!

Almost all child molesters are Heterosexuals.

Unfortunately lots of extremely ignorant people think it is a "gender" issue, when it is a "turn on" issue.

* Homosexual men are turned on by masculine qualities.

* Heterosexual men are turned on by feminine qualities

* Child molesters get turned on by children.

Since most children have not yet developed masculine qualities there is no interest there for the gay guys.

On the other hand because children are somewhat feminine, child molesters are not turned off by any masculine characteristic, and enjoy that soft feminine feel to a child.

Unfortunately some people are just plain too stupid to understand this.

Uncle Doc, you are a fraud. There is no Golden Anything award in Scouting. Half-baked deceivers like you are what gives Scouting its bad rep.

Went thru Scouting as a youth; no problems. Went thru Scouting as a Scouter; sometimes had to deal with ridiculous adults including unreasonable parents in some cases. Scouting itself; the greatest program to produce great men out of really silly boys.

Then again, you bad-mouthers of Scouting do not speak well of anything that builds a strong and upright society. You all are in favor only of that which degrades and turns society into a stewing sewer of humanity so as to hide and enhance all of the vile parts of your peronality and behaviors. Fin.

Men seeking sex with boys are not homosexual (in addition to being pedophiles). Right. And you think others are too stupid to understand? Your post is pure fiction.

You my friend Douglas, are sadly misinformed.

There are a number of awards specific to adult leaders, the Silver Beaver being one. I am honored to have received mine in part, for rebuilding a decripit waterfront building and driving piles for docks one fall, after the camping season was over. Spending a few hours in a wet suit in Seneca Lake wasn't a big deal to me but somebody else thought it was. Over the years I was nominated for other awards which were turned down as soon as I was informed of them. It's been so long since I got my Golden Beaver I can't recall what it was for... didn't gave it much thought actually, never did put it on my uniform.

My late son, when he was 17, spent his entire summer camp helping the camp ranger instead of working on merit badges that would have given him more than enough for Eagle Scout. His troop service projects were completed, he had all the requirements for Eagle but lacked a few odd badges. The ranger needed an older, responsible young man to help paint buildings and oversee the younger campers who were laboring on other projects around the workshop.

Zach voluntered as he placed service above self. He was as surprised as I at the season closing council fire to be presented the Golden Beaver award. He never did attain Eagle. Which was his choice and I never pushed it. He often told me, scouting to him was about having fun and learning new skills not getting colored circles to put on a sash. I am to this day proud of my son for his unselfish actions.

He's been gone 15 years this summer. I shall always treasure those memories of our years in scouting.

Doc, just looked it up in my BSA sources - no such award. No Golden Anything.

Even googled it. There is a Golden Beaver Saloon and former brothel in Wallace, Idaho. NO BSA award that is the Golden Anything. Bronze awards and several Silver BSA awards, but no Gold awards.

@DouglasJB - I also do not know of a Golden Beaver award. There are a few Gold something-or-others in Scouting, but all the ones I know about are fairly minor, like the gold bar that (used?) to be added above the troop number if the troop had been in existence for more than 50 years. However other than that Doc sounds like he does know something about the program - so my guess is that either he's confused it with some other award that might have had a vaguely similar name (it's apparently been some years ago), or that his local Council or Scout Camp gave out some award that they called by that name but that wasn't standardized by National. I know that when I was in Scouting some years ago (I was an Eagle Scout BTW, plus worked at summer camps for several years and was an adult leader when I was a younger adult), some camps and councils did have "non-standard" awards that they sometimes gave out, so I suppose some such award might have had a name like that. I doubt that National would approve of it since it would tend to dilute the prestige of the Silver Beaver award, but then they don't know everything that happens across the entire country.

Which is really the point of this entire thread. Scouting is a HUGE organization, and it's impossible to prevent every possible bad person from being involved in it. Anyone who thinks it is is not being realistic; to be consistent they'd better be home-schooling their kids, have their own private prayer meetings rather than belong to a church if they're religious, not belong to organizations like the YMCA or the country club or go to public parks or swimming pools or anything else, but just remain walled up in their bunker the whole time. Better not be using the Internet either ... oops, they apparently forgot that one.

Men wanting to have sex with other males = HOMO'S !!! Get over it !!!

Johnny: Your ignorance is showing.

they already have weblows.

hahahah i forgot about that

Weblows was Cub scouts wolf, bear, lion.

It's Webelos. There is no "W" at the end. It's short for "We Be Loyal Scouts". Granted, the grammar is bad, but there is no W, so please keep displaying your ignorance. It makes people who know better laugh at you.

GOOD CATCH BILL.

It's a thing a lot of folks will never understand. The evenings around the campfire, Calumets, gaining marksmanship, boating and woodcraft skills, meeting others from far at near at Philmont, learning by doing and discovering one's strengths and trying to stretch personal limitations are the sort of things one remembers their whole life. Be Prepaired.

Simply false. And bigoted.

My thoughts exactly! Thank God that they are keeping the organization good and wholesome by not allowing gays to join!

Bill why don't you go dance on a hot tin roof?

Yup, you can't be gay and a boyscout or have parents who are gay and have kids in boyscouts.

But hey, line up those registered sex offenders and let them be scout leaders.

CaerRaven, that's why the no lesbian scout leaders doesn't make any sense in the BOY scouts! One would think they would be the safest.

That's OK. They still have NAMBLA.

(sarcasm)

Yes indeed. The learn to hate gays simply because they are gay, the klearn that gay moms cannot possibly be a scout leader, they learn that adults are not intrested in protefting them but are interested in sexually abusing the,. Yep, they learn a lot wonderful things.

No, Tom. They are not taught to hate gays. They are taught to keep themselves morally straight, which homosexual behavior is not. Neither is pedophilia, which is not tolerated by scouting today. It is unfortunate that it happened, albeit RARELY, in the past in scouting.

If you want to play that game, then we can lump all public school teachers in with Mary Kay Letourneau. That'd be just as stupid as your comment.

@ Tom...were you a Boy Scout? Have you ever been involved with any aspect of the Boy Scouts? I would guess not based on your ignorant comments.

No Scout has ever been taugh to hate anyone, regardless of color, religion or sexual preference. THe Boy Scouts are taught Traditional Family Values. Do you know the definition of Traditional? Let me help you out. "the handing down of statements, beliefs, legends, customs, information, etc., from generation to generation, especially by word of mouth or by practice."

So, by definition, one man/one woman is traditional. No Boy Scout has ever been taught that being gay is wrong. No Boy Scout has ever been taught to hate another person for being gay. Every Boy Scout is taught traditional family values.

Are you a believer in G-d Tom? Do you attend Church Tom? Do you hate Athiests Tom? Were you taught in church to hate Athiests Tom? I don't think so. So why would you think The Boy Scouts would teach hatred of gays? Ignorance and lack of education is why. Learn the facts before you start to do the same thing you are upset at the Boy Scouts for, hate. That sir, by definition, is called being a hypocrite.

@ Bill the Cat

They are taught to keep themselves morally straight, which homosexual behavior is not.

Says who?

Homosexuality is not a behavior. It is an orientation.

Sex is a behavior that both straight and gay people enjoy.

There are many gay people that do not become involved in sexual behavior. AKA - Celibate Homosexuals.

The scouts won't allow Gays in because of how they were born - great organization. HAH!

The morality issue is a matter of opinion. Many people, many cultures, and many religions, do not have a problem with it.

According to several Native American tribes gay people were considered to be "2 spirited" people and held in high esteem.

The BSA speaks with forked tongue.

No JOregon, homosexuals and their allies speak with forked tongues. Sexual orientation is the expression; it is behavior.

If truly homosexuals are born that way, then treat them; other genetic deviancies are treated like schizophrenia and autism. Why not homosexuality?

Give us which tribes JOregon. Among the Comanche, "lovers of men" as they were referred, were staked out for the sun to punish as was its right. I have heard of other tribes which had various and even less kind means to DEAL with such deviants. Never heard of any AmerInd nation that did anything positive with them. Pray tell JOregon so that we can all look up your forked tongue claims.

In fact JOregon, despite your claim otherwise, very few societies throughout history treated homosexuals positively. It was a sequested behavior at best in most that it became common knowlege in and open practice of it in many, even by the rich and powerful, led to the loss of that status within their lifetimes at most. In fact, anthropology is riddled with cases of unsuccessful societies that tried to accept homosexuality as a normal part of them.

JOregon, you have a lot of typing to do for us folks here in support your claims so that we can disprove them openly for you. Get busy please.

It is highly dependent on the quality of the leaders that volunteer. I have seen some pretty bad troops and packs being run by men who have no business being leaders. It is almost all volunteers who run the organization. There are TONS of leaders who are not even trained in Youth Protection Training. Not to mention the gobs of parents who refuse to fill out forms to volunteer because of shady pasts, but are allowed to be around the kids and Help out. Be smart, never leave your kids alone in scouts.

@DouglasJB - You write "If truly homosexuals are born that way, then treat them; other genetic deviancies are treated like schizophrenia and autism. Why not homosexuality?"

Schizophrenia and autism are different in that they make it much more difficult to function in society. Certainly there are some psychologists and psychiatrists who will "treat" homosexuality to try to move the individual's sexual responses in a more heterosexual direction, with very mixed results. (I use "treat" in quotation marks because those professions don't regard it as a formal disorder to be treated, since it does not interfere with the individual's ability to function). Not enough is known about the biological causes of human sexual behavior to be able to do this reliably, or to know if it's even possible in many cases. It does seem likely that if an individual is bisexual, this kind of approach may make it easier for them to function in a more heterosexual manner, but it's not at all clear that someone who is strongly homosexual would show any useful results from such a program, at least at the current level of knowledge.

For those who say that this shouldn't ever be attempted, I'd disagree. If an individual regards it as a problem, then it's a problem - just like someone who thinks their nose is too big. The difference is that at this point in time we know how to deal with the latter; that wasn't always the case: early surgeons were more likely than not to make a mess of cosmetic surgery. It's a lot like that nowadays with sexual orientation therapy - it's at least as likely to make things worse as better; but that may not be true forever, especially if much of Ray Kurzweil's vision comes to pass. FWIW.

DouglasJB: You really need to study other cultures. What you state is not fact. Many cultures have various opinions on two-spirited people. You are not the knower of all.

You are kidding, right RLS1? Do you have any idea what Mormons think of pedophiles? Do you have any idea what level of sin pedophilia is in the eyes of the members and the standards of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints? I know because I have lots of Mormons friends, and I have worked with them in Scouting and we have thoroughly discussed this sad situation.

Seriously RLS1, can you imagine, at least for a fraction of a second, what Tom Monson, the president of that Church and recipient of the Bronze Wolf from Scouting, would like to do to a pedophile, who used the Church's affiliation with Scouting to take advantage of innocent boy, before his more Christ-like nature regained control. I think I can and so can most people who are accquainted with him.

You, RLS1, are a troll at best, a totally lying deceiver probably more accurately to levy such accusation against an organization that has no desire, but to make boys into the greatest men they can be in this earthly existence. You, RLS1, are a sad excuse for a human being.

Perhaps that is why they hid is so long. Didn't even start trying to keep records until 2010. So for how many years do we not have statistics??? And there were a whole lot that were never reported. Perhaps that is why the numbers are so low.

The BSA hid this information. Even they admit it was "insufficient."

I know of no other organization or group in our society that can compare to the positive experience that the Scouts provide.

Ideally, but evidently nobody in your locality was being sodomized.

It is simple, the law needs to nail these organizations until they learn that all they have to do is ensure that no child is left alone with a single adult. It is painfully simple. It works for swimming. Painfully simple. The buddy protects the booty.

It is a shame that organizations with the most noble purposes keep getting derailed bacause they trust pervs to police themselves, then get sideways because they are embarrassed. They should be embarrassed, because this can be generally prevented in almost all cases simply by having a no adult alone with a child policy.

Primate- The scouts teach a youth protection and the buddy system to keep this exact thing from happening. The 11 years I have been involved child safety is the MAIN concern. Evil can happen to anyone in any organization. Scouts based on the article is one of the safest organizations one's child can be involved in.

However, If there were mistakes or coverups then those involved should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.

Kent Salmen - Scouts based on the article is one of the safest organizations one's child can be involved in.

Except of course that the BSA has fought tooth and nail to prevent these files from being released.

They covered up horrible crimes back then, and they're still trying to cover them up today.

@Primate - The BSA does have a policy that there should always be two adults present; the policy has been in effect for many years. If abuse happens during a Scouting event, it's most likely that something happened that caused the group to get separated - an accident, for example, or some kid getting lost. It's very difficult to prevent all possible bad things from happening.

More likely, when abuse happens in a Scouting scenario, the adult met the kid during Scouting events and then met up with him later, and that's when the abuse happened. Again, it's impossible to prevent all such incidents.

In either case, the important thing is to identify any adults who are likely to abuse kids and keep them away from them, prosecuting them if possible. It sounds like this was not done 100% of the time, but clearly the majority of these cases (523 out of 829 adults suspected of child abuse of 1622 victims) were handled by the police. Likely a number of the other cases were not prosecutable - either the victim refused to work with the authorities, or the evidence was hearsay (some kid or adult reported that he or she had heard of some other kid being abused, for example, but the abused kid was never positively identified), or the relevant individual(s) had died or otherwise become unavailable, or something similar.

It's kind of hard to tell from the raw statistics just how culpable the Scouting organization itself was in "covering up" anything, but on its face it doesn't sound like that was a major problem, even if some of the cases were not handled in the best way possible. Again, it's a big organization, and 300-odd (at most) cases (over 20 years and many millions of members) that "may" have been mishandled is actually not that large; virtually every other large organization will have similar if not larger numbers, percentage-wise.

Moon- You are full of it...

+10000 Moon hasn't a clue.

Moon, obviously you have no idea what you're talking about. My son and the majority of boys in his troop do love camping but they also enjoy learning about different things to earn specific merit badges, doing service projects and giving back to the community. They also learn about leadership by becoming leaders within their troop. They are also learning to balance their time with other interests like sports, band and school. There haven't been any gay or sexually related overtones in his troop either. We have lots of moms and dads involved along with an awesome scoutmaster and 2 assistant scoutmasters. All of the parents have had youth protection training and the boys have also had discussions about how to protect themselves. I married an Eagle scout and I would expect that both of my sons will eventually be Eagles.

Scouting is a great program and I enjoy working with my younger sons cub scout pack. We encourage all of our parents to have youth protection training and to generally be involved and know what you son is doing. I agree with an earlier poster that parents are too relaxed about protecting their children. My husband will not stay in the house alone when kids are playing with their friends at our home. Our kids don't stay with others unless we know their parents personally.

Parents, We have to be more responsible about protecting our children. Be present in their lives, know what they are doing and with whom they are doing it with. All the time!!!

Oh dear, oh my, Moon-1965335 has not even a shred of a clue.

Moon, what do the following current merit badges have to do with anything you say Scouting is about: American Business, American Cultures, American Labor, Archaeology, Architecture, Art, Athletics, Automotive Maintenance, Aviation, Chemistry, Cinematography, Coin Collecting, Composite Materials, Computers, Crime Prevention, Cycling, Dentistry, Disabilities Awareness, Drafting, Electricity, Electronics, Energy, Engineering, Entrepreneurship, Farm Mechanics, Fingerprinting, Gardening, Genealogy, Golf, Graphic Arts, Home Repairs, Journalism, Landscape Architecture, Law, Medicine (not First Aid), Metalwork, Model Design and Building, Music, Nuclear Science, Oceanography, Painting, Plant Science, Plumbing, Public Health, Public Speaking, Pulp and Paper, Railroading, Salesmanship, Scholarship, Sculpting, Skating, Space Exploration, Sports, Stamp Collecting, Textile, Theater, Traffic Safety, Truck Transportation, Veterinary Medicine, Woodwork.

Nothing Moon, absolutely nothing. Scouting, as you claim it is, does not exist.

There are quite a few other merit badges, but these mentioned prove beyond a shadow of a doubt, that Scouting is not there just for boys who are lacking male influence at home Moon. The badges mentioned, and many more, are there so the young man can have the opportunity if he so chooses, to take a good look at many of the occupations available for him to pursue and to make him a better, more well-rounded citizen of his country.

Moon-1965335, stop embarrassing yourself by commenting on topics you know nothing about. "Mindless computer use" is something more appropriate evidently for you.

Yes Scouts & Scouters, I am not holding up the Sixth element of the Scout Law here. I am sorry, but I ask, "Did he ask for it?" I leave it to your judgement.

way to prove yourself such a fine upstanding citizen by throwing in the jab after u prove his point wrong

I did point out Michael that I was not abiding by the Sixth precept of the Scout Law.

I have stopped using it in things like the comment section of articles. It does not appear to work and it is not appreciated in the slightest when used in 99.5% of the cases. In fact, I am treated even worse when testifying of accuracies and truths when I have used it. Therefore Michael, I have made the personal call to no longer apply it.

Am I therefore no longer "upstanding"? Evidently in your book. In mine? No, I am speaking in the fashion that this "crowd" can understand the message. There is no point to attempt to communicate in a fashion that the natives cannot understand Michael.

Daniel- This is referred to as "Two Deep Leadership" and is as well as has been practiced in scouts for the eleven years I have been involved

I went from scout to junior leader in 1970. Two adult leaders was a requirement back then in my troop.

And LauraW-1584671, you are the epitome of the bleeding heart liberal that supports every psuedo-science crumb the homosexuals and their allies feed you, meanwhile denying every reasonable and undeniable fact in your face that good honest folk provide. Only the psuedo-sophisticates that the homosexuals and their allies encourage claim that the honest boots-on-the-ground truths that CactusCat and others like him show forth are just ignorance.

Shame on you LauraW-1584671 in allowing yourself to believe the deceptions those deviants feed you and then in espousing them in public. Shame on you for your lack of mental effort in the least and your total lack of moral uprightness in the most!!

Maybe some of you parents should not ship your kids to the babysitters (scouts) and get off your lazy asses and get involved. I have seen many parents just drop their kids off just to get rid of them for a while. If we all had decent parents Scouts wouldn't be needed for you worthless parents!

how does one get paper shoved down their throat? Just curious with the whole gag reflex, being able to keep the teeth clenched etc...

I feel for your boy MilitaryMomma. I was treated that way in a public school a few times, but never in Scouting. I recognize the truth of your story though through some of the trials my youngest son has had with some boys and leaders in our local scouting that did not live either the Scout Oath or the Scout Law.

I, on the other hand, did not let go of it and recruited several Silver Beavers and a Silver Antelope to my son's cause. To make a long story short, the leaders were removed from their positions and the Council tagged their names. The boys involved were given the choice to apologize, and the ones that did not, were invited to leave the program. It made some angry parents, but I was also thanked by others.

MilitaryMomma, you must never back down when you are right and sometimes, you must fight the fight even when you feel you are alone. You will find that you are not alone if you hold on long enough. Again, I am sorry your son had a bad experience; his and my younger son's experience are not the rule - they are the very exception. Hopefully, your son is having a good experience now with people that live the life Scouting really does teach; my son is with his new leaders.

Although 1662 is horrible what is the number of kids having a positive experience in scouts without trouble... 10-20 million???

I have been associated with scouting since I was a young scout. I did have some experiences with hazing new scouts. Very minor, but nonetheless something I regret.

But I never observed ANYTHING worse than that. I have three sons who are Eagles and one a Life. Their experiences were likewise very good ones. The principles embodied in the Scout Oath and Law are excellent. Those I have associated with in scouting have done well in promoting them and gone a long way in raising responsible, moral citizens.

WOW! Harsh considering there have been over 110 million Boy Scouts in the organization since 1910. With only 1662 reported cases that is .000015% of all youth affected in 102 years! You're right, shame on the Boy Scouts for not protecting more kids. I mean, if you think about it, there are 109,998,338 kids out there running around that weren't molested at all and got the most out of Scouting it had to offer. I guess they were robbed of their chance to get molested, right? Get over yourself Kent and realize this; you have just robbed your kids and grandkids of the opportunity to be something with themselves other than a gang member or another leach on society. I for one am proud to call myself an Eagle Scout.

Sorry Kent, I directed that comment at you and it should have been at Maz. My apologies.

Loomis--your math is very faulty. Please re-read the article. The number you are referring to, over 1500 kids, was over the course of 20 years, not 100. That makes that statistic much worse.

Further, they only released these documents under court order, and waited to apologize until the documents became public. Worse, the article also points out that any suits that have already been settled were not included in the number of cases reported. The number of boys, by many sources, is suspected to be much higher. The BSA would not look nearly so bad if it had gone to the police in more than one-third of cases, and released their stats before being forced to do so under court order. Secrecy and child abuse should not be tolerated--ever--and one case is too many.

Merry bear...ok. Lets work off your numbers. Officially,
the list starts in 1965 to 1985. That's 20 years. So lets do the math. That's
1/5th of 110,000,000 (or 22,000,000 scouts). Lets jump up the number of cases
to 2000 from 1662. That is still only .00009% of kids that were
"allegedly" molested. So how are my numbers wrong? Even if the number were outrageous and we
said it was 5000 kids in twenty years, that's only .002% of the scouts. I would say those numbers are damn good for
any organization.

So please explain how The Boy Scouts are failing at
protecting their youth. Are there ways
to improve? Of course. There are ways to improve in anything. I am sure even
you have at least one area to improve upon, like trying to make a point in your
favor but having it totally backfire on you.

Michael Moore may have been traumatized. That would explain a lot.

You forgot the 1,622 cases of alleged child abuse.

Jack, I didn't forget about the 1662 cases of alleged child abuse. You sir forgot about the estimated 109,998,338 young men involved in Scouting since 1910 that HAVEN"T been abused.

Michael Moore was a Boy Scout??????

That's it. I'm turning in all my awards and merit badges....

HE probly moslested the leaders.

You forget that they haven't been keeping accurate statistics, and they admit that.

CHIRS150:

Please tell me you do not intend to reproduce.

Sweeping things "under the rug" is NEVER ETHICAL. Nor will it make people trust you. Especially when you are denying VICTIMS justice. You need help.

@ Bill:

So...Jack is speaking out against an organization that protects pedophiles and somehow that bothers you?

Mike VL, do you have any idea what you are talking about? How were they protecting pedophiles? Those files had more than actual pedophiles in them - they had suspected ones too that the BSA did not want around the boys.

What if you were in those files Mike VL and were only suspected and in truth, not guilty? Would you want prosepctive employers able to look at those files as a matter of public record? Howabout prospective spouses? If you were suspected, but innocent, would you really want you name bandied about in conjunction with actual pedophiles? The BSA was protecting the innocent here Mike, not the guilty.

Mike VL, Jack is really not on the beam here. He is trashing an organization that has created a whole passle of good citizens and many great men. Just read his posting at the beginning of this set again and in the very next set following this one. He lets his son participate in Scouting. So Mike, is Jack a horribly neglecting parent or in fact, a hypocrite concerning Scouting.

@DouglasJB - I'd guess that the files also had incidents where an adult leader had actual sexual contact with an older Scout who was above the age of consent in the jurisdiction where it took place. That wouldn't be something that the legal authorities would be interested in pursuing unless the contact had been forced (ie, rape). It would however be much more than enough to put that person's name on the list.

It probably also includes names of adults who had engaged in legal but inappropriate behavior (as defined by the Scouts, not by law) that was not of an explicitly sexual nature. For example, many Scout camps have communal showers for the boys, often connected with the aquatic facilities. As I recall the policy in the camps I worked at, adult leaders were not to shower with the boys - even if everyone was wearing swimming trunks. Someone who did things like that repeatedly might eventually find their name on such a list - but it doesn't necessarily mean that they ever abused anyone.

The statistics are just too coarse-grained to make any firm conclusions from them. I think it's inevitable that when you have so many people in an organization, sometimes bad things will happen and sometimes the policies won't be enforced consistently and bad people will manage to evade the law. I think many people would be surprised how many cases never come to trial - or even to an arrest - because of lack of evidence or legal screw-ups or the like. There's never been a perfect system and never will be, as long as people run it.

This does not excuse either those who committed abuse or those who did not pursue the guilty parties aggressively enough; but you do have to compare the situation to other large organizations - schools, to name just one example - which are also less than perfect.

Jack, read these from my other posts and then ask yourself how good are The Boy Scouts at protecting our youth today?

So for all of you haters I wish to add this. The FBI and your local police have the inteligence to prevent and deter all illegal activity. So the next time someone is robbed, killed, DUI, molested, raped or identity theft, blame the police and FBI and your local neighborhood watch program. The person who did the offense should not be help liable for any wrongdoing. We need to release all criminals from jail immediately because it wasn't their fault. It was the fault of everyone else who should have prevented the action from happening in the first place. RIGHT?

No, the fact is you can't stop it. No matter how much screening you do you can't stop all bad people. All you can do is take out the bad ones once you catch them and prevent them from doing it again. But wait, even in our jail system we have repeat offenders. And in those situations, the law is working against those people to make sure they don't do it again right? So how do you prevent it?? YOU CAN'T! It isn't the fault of the Boy Scouts. Did they make some mistakes, yes. Have they admitted those mistakes? Yes. Are they going to pay for those mistakes? Yes. But you can't hold them accountable for every single leader, volunteer and scout in their organization no more than a school can. We as a society have to put a lot of trust in people to do the right thing and when they don't, you punish that individual.

The Boy Scouts, by percentage, does a better job than any other organization in the world to protect its youth. It also does more to teach young men the difference between right and wrong.

Neil Armstrong (Astronaut),

Stephen Breyer (US Supreme Court),

Roger Chaffee (Astronaut),

Hal Daub (Mayor of Omaha),

Gerald Ford (former President),

Don Garlits (Father of Drag Racing NHRA),

Richard Herman (Chancellor of the University of Illinois),

Howard Lincoln (CEO of the Seattle Mariners),

Michael Moore (Film Maker),

Dennis Pitta (Tight End for The Baltimore Ravens),

Mike Rowe (Dirty Jobs),

William S Sessions (Former Director of the FBI),

Steven Spielberg (Academy Award-winning film director, film producer, and screenwriter)

Are these all bad people? I think not. These are all people who dedicated their lives to Scouting. You'll notice I took names from both sides of the political fence as to prove that The Boy Scouts is still the safest and best way to teach your son the values of life and how to make something of himself. Stop the witch-hunt and move on with your lives.

Jack, Harsh considering there have been over 110 million Boy Scouts in the organization since 1910. With only 1662 reported cases that is .000015% of all youth affected in 102 years! You're right, shame on the Boy Scouts for not protecting more kids. I mean, if you think about it, there are 109,998,338 kids out there running around that weren't molested at all and got the most out of Scouting it had to offer. I guess they were robbed of their chance to get molested, right?

BSA hid abuse. I don't care about everyone else. If it was my son I wouldn't care if Roger Chaffee escaped abuse. Iti is not about who didn't get abused, it is about who did and wasn't done about it. If my son didn't love it so much, we would have nothing to do with it. Besides, I'm involved.

yes, paying for a report writen by an untrustworthy source which blames the dead guy was a great plan by psu. but the best part was how they the somehow were able to get the media to infuriate the public and to keep everyone blaming the dead guy, erasing the dead guys name and accomplishments while at the same time basically ignoring sandusky, and psu administrators (paternos bosses) and letting them crawl away