I don't care what it cost - get every damn ILLEGAL out of this country!! Man, woman and child. If because of the screwed up interpretation of the Constitution the kids are legal - too bad! Let the illegal parent make the decision of what to do with them. They chose to come her illegally and pump out kids, let them take them back with them. Since when do kids get a say of where their parents move them?!

JOE vs. JOSE
You have two families: "Joe Legal" and "Jose Illegal". Both families have
two parents, two children, and live in California.

Joe Legal works in construction, has a Social Security Number and makes
$25.00
per hour with taxes deducted.

Jose Illegal also works in construction, has NO Social Security Number,
and
gets paid $15.00 cash "under the table".

Ready? Now pay attention...

Joe Legal: $25.00 per hour x 40 hours = $1000.00 per week, or $52,000.00
per
year. Now take 30% away for state and federal tax; Joe Legal now has
$31,231.00.

Jose Illegal: $15.00 per hour x 40 hours = $600.00 per week, or $31,200.0 0
per
year. Jose Illegal pays no taxes.

Jose Illegal now has $31,200.00.

Joe Legal pays medical and dental insurance with limited coverage for
his
family at $600.00 per month, or $7,200.00 per year. Joe Legal now has
$24,031.00.

Jose Illegal has full medical and dental coverage through the state and
local

clinics at a cost of $0..00 per year. Jose Illegal still has
$31,200.00.

Joe Legal makes too much money and is not eligible for food stamps or
welfare.

Joe Legal pays $500.00 per month for food, or $6,000.00 per year. Joe Legal
now
has $18,031.00.

Jose Illegal has no documented income and is eligible for food stamps
and

welfare. Jose Illegal still has $31,200.00.

Joe Legal pays rent of $1,200.00 per month, or $14,400.00 per year. Joe
Legal

now has 9,631 .00.

Jose Illegal receives a $500.00 per month federal rent subsidy.

Jose Illegal pays out that $500.00 per month, or $6,000.00 per year.
Jose
Illegal still has $31,200.00.

Joe Legal pays $200.00 per month, or $2,400.00 for insurance. Joe Legal now
has

$7,231.00.

Jose Illegal says, "We don't need no stinkin'CAR insurance!" and
still
has $31,200.00.

Joe Legal has to make his $7,231.00 stretch to pay utilities, gasoline,
etc.

Jose Illegal has to make his $31,200.00 stretch to pay utilities, gasoline,
and

what he sends out of the country every month..

Joe Legal now works overtime on Saturdays or gets a part time job after
work.

Jose Illegal has nights and weekends off to enjoy with his family.

Joe Legal's and Jose Illegal's children both attend the same school. Joe
Legal

pays for his children's lunches while Jose Illegal's children get a
government

sponsored lunch. Jose Illegal's children have an after school ESL program.
Joe
Legal's children go home.

Joe Legal and Jose Illegal both enjoy the same police and fire services,
but
Joe paid for them and Jose did not pay.

If you vote for or support any politician that supports illegal aliens...
or

don't vote…..

YOU ARE PART OF THE PROBLEM!!

I'd say that about
says it all folks, think about
it...

Now all we need is a presidential or congressional candidate that is against illegal immigration

There is an incredible amount of money here and I bet the trail leads right to politicians pockets

So whatever happened to "The spirit of the law" I mean killing is illegal, right but the law doesn't differential between a gun and a machete (say) just if you kill with prejudice it not allowed.

So why does the law in this case have to list each & every offense.

I suppose its the fact that Brown is a Friggin (In this case friggin is a group noun) Lawyer and feels that local law doesn't have the common sense to implement it.

definitely not true and besides the last president didnt do enough to combat illegal immigration. the business owners love illegal labor thats why the Republicans arent really interested in stopping it either, only the Tea Party has put their feet to the coals so to speak.

1wizard:

Right on! I'm so sick of the bleeding heart progressive liberals spewing their bullshi* about ILLEGALS.

Get a clue people. Laws offer protection. No laws = no protection. Good honest, hard working people are the ones who suffer when we undermine our nations laws. Throw those protestors in jail with those Mexicans they're trying to protect. Maybe they'll see first hand how wonderful these individuals are.

Scott Schreiber.....The Obama administration changed the way deportations are counted to cook the books. They also use Alien Transfer Exit Program (ATEP) which is when illegals are detained by Border Patrol agents near the border, moved to another point along the border and sent back home. There are no criminal charges filed against them nor is there any official action taken to bar them from returning. None of Obama's predecessor's ever counted these as deportations.

I've always thought the best deterrent would be that illegal's would have to perform 1 year of hard labor before being deported back to their respective crap hole countries.

Enact such a policy and see how many repeat offenders there are.

Welcome to California.........

Pull our troops back home and prevent this scourge from the south from continuing to breach our borders and demand to be entitled at taxpayer expense a livelihood. We have enough poor to contend with than people waltzing in as they please and being allowed to by an administration desperate for votes.

The federal government should reimburse the cities for the cost of these detentions. Feds are notorious for unfunded mandates. It is all about money.

Americans across political spectrum demand that our leaders- enforce our immigration laws inviolate NOW!

And you think the work these illegals perform ISN'T hard labor already? Otherwise, US citizens would perform the hard labor for the money instead of lounging about collecting welfare, food stamps, etc, from our fearless leader.

Immigration has helped make the US what we are. And we have laws for people to come here to improve their lives.

If those in jail are in jail, it's usually for a good reason. Let's say Jose got picked up on a weapons violation. ICE wants him gone because he presents a threat to public safety. It's hard for this liberal to say Calif is doing the wrong thing by holding him until ICE gets there. Do we really want people picked up, put in jail, back on the streets?

This isn't about tearing babies away from parents. This is about protecting the public interest.

Not all Democrats are "bleeding heart liberals."

Again, if they are in jail, it's for a reason. If I was a Californian, I want them kept in jail until ICE has had a good look at their background. I would imagine that ICE, DEA, ATF has enough fingerprints of non-citizens to paper the landscape with.

One of the funny rules about coming here to live is that you do it by abiding by our laws...especially those here who'd like to stay. Before we scream about someone's civil liberties being trashed, let's find out why a federal law enforcement agency wants that person behind bars. Really quite simple.

What part of ILLEGAL do you not understand?

And Barry, your oath says you will UPHOLD & PROTECT the Constitution..... that includes immigration laws

...the federal requests, known as detainers or holds, cast a wide dragnet that ensnared even those who had committed minor crimes or no offenses.

You mean other than them being here illegal. Nice frilling spin Miranda Leitsinger of NBC!

Bob - "instead of lounging about collecting welfare, food stamps, etc, from our fearless leader.'

That is why welfare requirements need to be much more restrictive... it's not a reason to allow foreign criminals to crawl into the country and cost the working taxpayers even more money.

So far no story on O collaborating with Mexico regarding our foodstamp program, while this was enacted in 2004 -- it's grown substantially under O -- what part of taxpayer $$$ isn't he getting?

The Obama administration met with Mexican officials and held other events to discuss enrollment in food stamps and similar programs roughly 30 times since President Obama took office, Agriculture Secretary Tom Vilsack revealed in a recent letter to Congress.

They were among 151 documented meetings and events held since 2004, when the United States and Mexico first started partnering on food-stamp awareness. That partnership, though, has raised alarm with Sen. Jeff Sessions, R-Ala., who is concerned the collaboration amounts to a vehicle for the USDA to pressure people onto the food-stamp rolls -- in this case, noncitizen immigrants from Mexico.

Vilsack released the information in response to Sessions’ request this summer for more details about the U.S.-Mexico Partnership for Nutrition Assistance initiative, which educates Mexican immigrants about food stamps and other assistance.

However, his letter indicates the number of legal, noncitizens participating in the program -- now called the Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program -- has increased from 425,000 to 1.23 million between 2001 and 2010. And a Republican Budget Committee staffer told The Daily Caller, which first reported the Vilsack letter, the estimated number of legal, noncitizens in the food stamp program is now roughly 1.63 million — more than double the number who participated in 2008.

It is the law that ICE can keep illegals up to three months i jail . Ah you don't have to do anything to go to jail besides being illegal . Before 2007 immigration used to deport those people who had trouble with the law ,but in 2007 ICE was searching for immigrants everywhere , was like massive war against illegals. And was a bonus for every illegal that they captured .

The Governator (carry over) did the right thing.....FOR ONCE.

Take the Mayors of these towns to court with "contempt" (or something else to fit their crime) charges if they do not abide by Federal Immigrant laws and ICE procedures.

Hey 1wizard. You forgot a little stat/calculation in your little scenario == how much many is the contractor who hired JOSE over JOE making??? how much is he saving in workman comp and insurance payments? a HUGE part of this problem, is all of the companies who hire these illegal immigrants - if they can't get their cushy little job, they aint comin. STOP HARRBORING THEM.

I notice the buried in this article as an aside is the fact that Gov. Brown signed the law allowing illegals to get driver's licenses. I am so glad that my CA driver's license is now completely worthless as an ID. I guess he forgot that signing a similar measure is one of the main things that got Gov. Davis recalled from office. I guess it is time to start the recall petitions to get rid of wingnut Jerry Brown too. The only reason he vetoed the other bill was because it had problems with what it listed as offenses that warranted holding the illegals, not because he disagrees with the idea of this catch and release program that perpetuates the problem of illegal immigrants. The idea that these illegals do jobs Americans do not want to do is the biggest lie being told by the liberals. If these jobs paid a decent wage there would be Americans lined up to take them. The reason the illegals are the only ones doing them now is that it allows the employers to get away with paying below minimum wage and offering no benefits to those doing the work. If these jobs came with a decent wage and benefits there would be plenty of people willing to take them. Also, the line about this driving food prices through the roof is also a complete lie. The labor costs for picking crops have very little to do with the price you pay at the supermarket. That price is far more tied to the price of oil than it is to labor costs. That is because the price of oil effects everything from the cost of the fertilizer the farms use, to the costs to run the farm equipment, to the costs to transport the produce from the farms to the supermarkets, to the cost of electricity to keep the refrigeration and lights going at the supermarket. If you look at the price a farmer gets for his crop versus what you pay in the supermarket it would be readily apparent to anyone that this labor cost line is complete BS. The reality is that the farmer gets paid less than one third of what you end up paying at the supermarket. This means that the labor costs is only a fraction of one third of what you pay. This clearly shows that the line about driving up food costs if farmers were forced to pay legal American farm workers a decent wage is complete bull. It is about nothing more than allowing the big corporations that run most of the farms to make a little bit extra profit by using illegals to pick the crops.

Another part of the problem is the babies they have here. I understand that the child is now a us citizen, but why do they get more privileges then do the children born to us citizens. Those illegals children also get the free schooling, free lunches, medical, etc, that I had to pay for with my own children. That also reduces Joe Legals available income for other things.

thebigpicture--- You are absolutely correct and this is precisely why our immigration laws need to be enforced as against the ILLEGAL FOREIGN NATIONALS as well as against THE LAWBREAKING BUSINESS PROFITEERS--- after all, we, the American Taxpayers are paying substantial corporate welfare (to the tune of billions upon billions every year) in the way of subsidizing the healthcare and other social welfare benefits for the ILLEGAL BLACKMARKET LABOR FORCE!

The county jails all over the Nation are bursting at the seams with illegal alien detainees; PROBLEM, the federal government is not paying for their keep, it takes over 6 months just to get a Immigration hearing, another 2-3 years on appeal; the County sheriffs are going broke feeding, medical care, clothing, housing them; it costs on the low end 35 dollars per day per inmate, federal system is 57 dollars per day, private jails around 75 dollars per day, that is why California passed this law, the county's are going broke housing them.

IWIZARD: best anti-illegal immigrant post of the year!

Nukeman:

Sorry, but you're full of crap. What you meant to say was, I don't care what it costs someone else. If I'm wrong and you really do mean it, please send your entire paycheck, and the proceeds from the sale of all your possessions to ICE.

I will clarify . . . this is how ILLEGALS should be deported. You catch them, you stick them on a bus or a plane (a crappy cargo plane), you drive or fly them across the border they came through and you kick their a s s off the bus or plane. Deportation complete!

The federal bureaucracy of this and how much it costs us tax payers is ridiculous! Like everything else the feds do, it's f-ed up! It's pretty clear cut when and ILLEGAL is an ILLEGAL.

So I'll pass on sending my paycheck in - I'm still trying to figure out how to keep all the money I earn like the ILLEGALS!!

with many performing low-wage jobs that others don't want.

If employers did not have illegals to enslave the employers would have to pay better and citizens would want those jobs. Lay sod for $8 a hour NO THANKS. For $12 a hour you would get some takers. Only work most Americans would not take is farm picking.

Saxon:

The problem is, the federal government is us! All government is us!! We shouldn't be paying one cent for ILLEGALS - stop EVERYTHING (medical, school, food, welfare, etc., etc.,) if you can't prove you are a citizen or have legal status. When they are turned away from the hospital, the schools, and the food pantry's - they'll leave!

Ship em out Brown!

OBAMA's Mexican Travel Agency must be stopped.

It is the law that ICE can keep illegals up to three months i jail . Ah you don't have to do anything to go to jail besides being illegal .

Arian1, you need to look up the meaning of the word "illegal". This should not need explaining, but being in this country illegally is a legal offense. It is a violation of U.S. immigration laws.

So, yeah, if you are caught here "illegally", you can be detained, charged and deported. Big surprise, huh?

I'm not against any reasonable adjustment of the immigration laws to keep them in step with what is actually enforced and enforceable. But, ignoring the law is no solution.

Scott Schreiber

American Citizen.....your president has deported more illegals in his first term than his predecessor ever did.

Care to cite facts to support that blatant piece of bull@!$%#? Because it is obvious you pulled that out of your ass, or the Soros/Obama playbook of lies.

If you care to actually look at DHS statistics you can see that the Bush administration deported 2x the number of illegals the Obama administration has AND returned 8x the number of illegaks the Obama administration has.

But here are some fun facts you can boast about concerning Mr Obama.

1 - Barack Obama is the 1st POTUS with illegal immigrant relatives evading deportation orders from the DHS

2- The Obama administration has granted more illegals deferred status and work permits than they have deported.

To cross the border illegally is only the first in a series of offences committed by illegals.

Criminal trespass of private property is next.

Traveling across state lines for the purpose of committing crimes (like fraud) is a federal offense.

Using fake IDs is another.

Hopefull, but that will never happen. The ACLU and all sorts of other groups would sue.

If you catch an illegal, they should be put to work at hard labor building a border WALL, not a fence. Build a wall, like the one in Israel, or the Berlin wall, not some stupid fence. Then, after about 3 months, deport them.

We really need a national ID card. Until we get that, the issue will never be resolved. If we had a national ID card, you could require it for banking, buying homes and cars, getting government services, hooking up utilities, flying, registering for school, getting a job...

Once we have a secure border and make it very difficult for people here illegally to live here, then we could do a guest worker program. Let the employer file for an H1B visa for them to come and pick crops for a period of time. Then they could go back home after they are done. Live off the money and know that they could come back the next season or next year to make more money.

People who say they take jobs americans dont want to do, do not know half the poor people i know who are looking for work. In crime ridden LA, they had a job fair and the line wrapped around the building, and many of the jobs were minimum wage. People want to work, stop using bs excuses.

"Fe, Fi, Fo, Fum, I see an illegal alien....Fe, Fum, Fi, Fo, Send 'em back to Mexico"

Given our current Gov's past record, I never imagined I'd agree with many of his policy/legislative decisions. To be sure, I don't agree with them ALL (such as the useless and excessively expensive high-speed rail project). . .but this one was a good move on his part.

Kevin Q,

If you make that second line,

Fum, fi, fee, fo, send them back to Mexico,

it will rhyme.... You're welcome.

Hmm...well since prisons are subsidised by the taxpayer I don't see the point of locking them up here, send em' home and lets actually try securing the border.

He have a satellite called Kepler that can measure star light variance from light years away...why not a "border guard 6000" satellite that can use infrared and thermal to detect supposed border crossers and we could catch them BEFORE they enter the country.

Funny, I distinctly rember the moonbats scolding Arizona for taking a stance on a Federal issue. You can't have it both ways, libtards.

When I lived in Cali back in the late 1990s I tried to get work picking. The farmers contract out the work to labor brokers. Those labor brokers only speak spanish and will not hire an anglo. The picking industry has become a Mexican monopoly and non-Mexicans need not apply.

hard to believe Bobo Brown vetoed the bill , especially when you consider that he just SIGNED a bill to give 100,000 or more illegal aliens valid California drivers licenses

Preceded

accusing others of "diatribe" after composing that drivle is a pretty bold move , and your disregard for American law is what is in fact "sickening" , glad you don't get to make the rules

Whine, gripe, beach, and bellache about illegals but until American CEO are put in jail for hireing then they will continue to hire them. As long as there is greater economic opportunity here they will continue to come, stop the economic opportunity and they will stop coming---JAIL THE CEO'S.

Arian1 said:

It is the law that ICE can keep illegals up to three months i jail .

No.

An official Immigration and Customs Enforcement database, obtained under the Freedom of Information Act, showed a U.S. detainee population of exactly 32,000 on the evening of Jan. 25.

The data show that 18,690 immigrants had no criminal conviction, not even for illegal entry or low-level crimes like trespassing. More than 400 of those with no criminal record had been incarcerated for at least a year. A dozen had been held for three years or more; one man from China had been locked up for more than five years. Nearly 10,000 had been in custody longer than 31 days -- the average detention stay that ICE cites as evidence of its effective detention management.

Based on a 2001 ruling by the U.S. Supreme Court, ICE has about six months to deport or release immigrants after their case is decided. But immigration lawyers say that deadline is routinely missed. In the system snapshot provided to the AP, 950 people were in that category.

Since 2003 Congress has doubled to $1.7 billion the amount dedicated to imprisoning immigrants. Immigration lawyers note that substantial numbers of detainees, from 177 countries in the data provided, are not illegal immigrants at all. Many of the longest-term non-criminal detainees are asylum seekers fighting to stay here because they fear being killed in their home country. Others are longtime residents who may be eligible to stay under other criteria, or whose applications for permanent residency were lost or mishandled, the lawyers say.

Based on the amount budgeted for this fiscal year, U.S. taxpayers will pay about $141 a night -- the equivalent of a decent hotel room -- for each immigrant detained, even though paroling them on ankle monitors -- at a budgeted average daily cost of $13 -- has an almost perfect compliance rate, according to ICE's own stats.

A system that housed 6,785 immigrants in 1994 now holds nearly five times that amount in 260 facilities across the country, most under contract with local governments or private companies. For this fiscal year, ICE has enough money budgeted for 33,400 people on any given night.

Ah you don't have to do anything to go to jail besides being illegal.

Not even that. In the article I pasted above, did you see that 18,690 people weren't even here illegally? Neither were these people:

The son of a decorated Vietnam veteran, Hector Veloz is a U.S. citizen, but in 2007 immigration officials mistook him for an illegal immigrant and locked him in an Arizona prison for 13 months. Veloz had to prove his citizenship from behind bars. An aunt helped him track down his father's birth certificate and his own, his parents' marriage certificate, his father's school, military and Social Security records. After nine months, a judge determined that he was a citizen, but immigration authorities appealed the decision. He was detained for five more months before he found legal help and a judge ordered his case dropped.

Hans Joachim Keil was arrested in Dutton in September and accused of being an illegal alien. He was an official representative of Samoa, a current Member of Parliament and a prominent businessman with many family links. He had diverted to Missouri on the way home from trade talks in Brussels where he represented Samoa. “They were going to lock me up for five years plus five years. Five years for impersonating a US citizen and five years for using an illegal US passport. On the day of my arrest when I brought to their attention, that I served in the US military … they threw that out the window and said that I’m an illegal alien and I have no right to be in the United States. They knew I was a Samoan diplomat but they had no regard for my diplomatic passport.”

Fomer ICE exec James Pendergraph said himself in 2008 to a police conference that "If you can't charge them criminally but you think they may be here illegally we can make them disappear."

No government official of a free, democratic republic should be able to say that they can make a person 'disappear' if someone else 'thinks' they might be here illegally, no proof necessary.

From what I have been able to tell, it's the Secure Communities program itself that is flawed:

Lisa Chavez, Senior Research Associate at the Warren Institute, says: “We had unprecedented access to federal data on ICE arrests, detentions, and deportations of people who are pulled in through Secure Communities. By following the numbers, we were able to construct a picture of who is being arrested and what happens to them after their immigration arrest.”

Key findings include:

• Approximately 3,600 United States citizens have been arrested by ICE through the Secure Communities program even though citizens, by definition, should not be subject to immigration detention;
• Approximately 88,000 families containing U.S. citizens have been affected by Secure Communities through the immigration arrest of a family member;
• Latinos comprise 93% of individuals arrested through Secure Communities though they only comprise 77% of the undocumented population in the United States;
• Only 52% of individuals arrested through Secure Communities were slated to appear before an immigration judge;
• Only 24% of the individuals arrested through Secure Communities who did have an immigration hearing were represented by an attorney. By contrast, 40% of all immigration court respondents have counsel;
• Only 2% of non-citizens arrested through Secure Communities are granted relief from deportation by an immigration judge. By contrast, 14% of all immigration court respondents are granted relief;
• A large majority (83%) of people arrested through Secure Communities is held in ICE detention as compared with an overall DHS immigration detention rate of 62%. ICE does not appear to be exercising discretion when deciding whether or not to detain Secure Communities arrestees.

“The wrongful arrest of thousands of U.S. citizens demonstrates that, too often, ICE’s protocol is arrest first, investigate second. This flies in the face of the Constitution. With these numbers finally public, ICE must confront the deep flaws in the program that have led to these wrongful arrests and to the disproportionate targeting of young Latino men,” said professor Peter L. Markowitz, director of the Kathryn O. Greenberg Immigration Justice Clinic at Cardozo School of Law, a co-author of the report.

Look for vcresearch (dot) berkeley (dot) edu. I can't get links to stick.

Why does it take so long to kick their a$$ out. If they are known to be illegal whether engaged in other criminal activity or not they should not require a hearing. I say other criminal activity because they are illegally in the country and that is a criminal act. Go to the border, go directly to the border, do not pass go and do not collect $200. Nothing stops them from taking their rug rats with them.

Amanda,

No I wouldn't deport an illegal alien from Germany to Mexico. I would deport them to Germany. But the vast majority of illegals in this country are from Mexico and that is a simple fact you are trying to cover up. All the graffitti in my neighborhood isn't in German either. It is in spanish.

Set up armed soldiers at the border. Establish a fenced and clearly indicated 1 mile no-mans land along the border. Illegals trying to travel through this land will be given ONE warning shot. If they don't turn back, treat them as what they are, invading force. I'm sick of these leeches coming into this country. My family and I immigrated here legally back in the 90's. Why the hell should one specific group of people be allowed to bypass the entire process? Furthermore, we should set up a 1 year grace period for all illegals currently in the US to go back home. Any found after that grace period will have all their assets confiscated and dropped off just right over the US border. Let them figure out how to get back home.

wyoming grandfather said:

Why does it take so long to kick their a$$ out.

Reasons? 1)The person may be from a country who does not have treaties with the US. 2)The government of the country they are from may not accept them back as in cases where a person is fleeing political persecution or asking for asylum from a dictatorship 3)The person may claim to be a citizen and citizens have rights to due process so they are given time to try and back up their claims--ICE is not required to prove that you are illegal, you are guilty until you prove you're innocent. 4) The person's country may have recently experienced a natural disaster and deportations are suspended because there's no way to ensure their safety or the safety of the person(s) they're dropping off. 5) Too many entities in the US make too much money off detention of individuals to make a 'fast deportation' profitable. 6) The person may not have a home country to be deported to.

If they are known to be illegal whether engaged in other criminal activity or not they should not require a hearing.

The Constitution says 'No persons shall be deprived of life, liberty or property without due process. It doesn't make the distinction between citizen or illegal, it simply says 'no person'.

I say other criminal activity because they are illegally in the country and that is a criminal act.

When you show up at the border with no papers, even asking for asylum, you are immediately taken into custody even if you haven't set foot across the border and are therefore not illegal. You cross the border in the company of a border patrol officer and are placed directly into detention. You haven't committed any crime, you simply stepped up to the border and said 'i am in fear for my life and I request asylum' and you're immediately detained. Note the word is 'detained', not 'arrested'; you have to have committed a crime in order to be 'arrested' in this country

Look at the cases I pasted above. Angela Boneva was declared illegal but she actually isn't; her father was born in Indiana. She didn't come here illegally. Hans Keil had diplomatic papers and a diplomatic passport--he wasn't illegal but was deported as one (it caused quite a stir in Samoa when it happened). It took Hector Veloz over a year to track down the proofs of his citizenship, and even after a judge concluded he proved he was a citizen, he was still detained for nine more months before being released.

And then you have cases like mine--I was internationally adopted as an infant, but never told before my parents passed away in a car accident. So when USCIS does a routine record search and finds they've lost my adoption paper, I couldn't give them a copy, and they decided that made me 'illegal' (which I wasn't, I was simply undocumented, having never committed a crime) and put me in deportation. Since I was abandoned at an international orphanage as a baby with no birth certificate (the legal international term is 'stateless') there was no home country to deport me to. They simply told me I'd remain in deportation until I provided them with a copy of my adoption paper. It took me three years to find it, writing one letter a week to every couthouse in every state we'd ever lived in trying to find that paper.

I wasn't illegal; I was brought here legally. It wasn't illegal for my parents to have not told me I was adopted; it wasn't illegal for me not to have this piece of paper since legal proofs of identification are a certified birth certificate (which my parents got for me after they adopted me, had my BC issued with their names on it) a valid Social Security card, and at the time I was detained I had a brand new DL. I had never committed a crime, never been in trouble with the law--had just graduated private high school and was on my way to art college on a scholarship because I wanted to be a police sketch artist.

Stateless infants like me, back when I was adopted, by law automatically became naturalized citizens at 18 provided several conditions were met: 1) the person had to have lived in the US for 10 years; 2)ther person had to have never been in trouble with the law 3) the person had to have gone to school here in the US and 4) the person had to have been legally adopted. My USCIS file had a receipt that they sent my parents 18 years earlier confirming receipt of the adoption decree and the reissued birth certificate, so they knew they'd had it at one point but it had gotten lost, although they did still have the original adoptive birth certificate. I had school records from pre-k through 12, had video of being in spelling and geography bee tournaments in third, fifth and seventh grades so I could prove I'd been here and went to school here; had no criminal or juvenile record in any state, and all that was missing was the adoption paper.

ICE has a program where if the detainee has no history of bad behavior and are legally qualified to work here, they can release the undocumented non-criminal detainee with an electronic monitoring bracelet and weekly checkins to a supervising officer. The detainee can then work and live outside a prison/deportation camp while trying to find the missing documents, instead of sitting in deportation having three meals a day on taxpayer dollar. The problem is that if they do that, the detainee will basically be paying for their own detention and they can't ask for that $141 per person per night per year ($51,000) from Congress, then turn around and subcontract the detainee's detention to a private deportation camp for $40 per person per night per year and add what is left to their operating budget.

My, I hadn't realized we had, here in the U.S., so many Native American descendants.

There wouldn't be "low wage jobs that others don't want" if we didn't have this massive illegal alien undocumented worker problem. Why would an employer pay a decent wage to a legal worker when they can pay low wages to undocumented workers and get away with it? The illegal aliens also account for huge tax burdens in CA, which is why small business owners look at hiring illegals to keep manpower costs down. Chicken or the egg?

davefromanapointca said:

No I wouldn't deport an illegal alien from Germany to Mexico. I would deport them to Germany. But the vast majority of illegals in this country are from Mexico and that is a simple fact you are trying to cover up. All the graffitti in my neighborhood isn't in German either. It is in Spanish.

But not every illegal here is from Mexico. Hence the reason why the original poster's comment that 'all illegals need to be shipped to Mexico' was incorrect. I agree that the majority of those here illegally are Mexican and other South American countries, but you also can't assume that just because the graffiti is in Spanish doesn't mean they aren't from Cuba, Honduras, El Salvador, the Dominican Republic, the Phillipines, Spain, and they might even be US natives from Puerto Rico. Not EVERYONE who speaks Spanish is illegal, and not every illegal is Mexican.

Amanda, "discretion" is a major legal flaw. Discretion accounts for vast differences in the aplication of law and sentencing. We have a doctor in western NY, James G. Corasanti, who was driving drunk, committed a hit and run on a pedestrian (killing him) and the doctor only received a year in jail. Weeks later a black man (who was not a doctor) in western New York did the same thing and I seem to recall his sentence was 15 years. There should be no discretion. There should be one result for every conviction of a certain crime. The crime of being in the country illegally should have a sentence of deportation, barring, of course, cases where political asylum should be granted.

Edit #1.60 - the pedestrian was a girl not a boy.

All I know is that when I have guests in town visit (I live in Herndon, VA) I frequently hear, "what is this little Mexico!?" I have reported to ICE the 45+ illegals standing outside the 7-11 any given morning waiting for work with no action taken so far. I'm tired of never hearing people speak English in my neighboorhood. Just saying I won't vote for anyone that does not support the direct deportation of any illegal alien, democrat or republican.

Fine Amanda and earthgirl, then you pay for the illegals and send my tax dollars back.

BTW, Amanda, you stated that jails are mostly private for profit facilities, where the hell do you think the money they are paid comes from? Talk about going around the horn to deny the truth.

The illegal vietmanese and hispanic communities have got to be controlled, the number of taxpayers to non-taxpayers is stretching our infrastructure to the breaking point. Not only that, but if mexicans can sneak across that border, guess what all else does.

I am a liberal, but I live in Southern CA and I see what the illegal problem is doing to CA first hand. If you're here illegally, you have already broken the law, so I don't get these people who say we shouldn't deport illegals who haven't broken any laws here. THEY BROKE THE LAW JUST COMING HERE!! As far as I'm concerned, I don't care what country you came from, if you're here illegally you should be deported as soon as possible, unless there are asylum issues. All of these illegals who have recently been parading through the streets here proudly declaring that they are here illegally should be immediately rounded up and sent back to where they came from. And we should make English our official language. I'm sick of my tax dollars going to putting up signs in Spanish and to translate state and federal documents into multiple languages because people come here and refuse to learn our language. I'm sick of going into stores and restaurants and having multiple mistakes made because the clerks and servers don't speak English well enough to get things right. I would fully expect that if I went to live in another country I would need to learn their language. I would NOT expect them to learn mine!! If you want to be an American, come here legally, learn English, and contribute to society. If you're not going to do that, then stay away from here! We don't need you and we don't want you here if you can't do those three simple things.

PsychoDoc

you are at the ground floor and you see it without lefty blinders on , to bad the party members in , say , Massachusetts can't , as they are "outside the box" , the box is pretty full where you are , eh?

Unless they were hog-tied and dragged over the border by force there is no justification for breaking the law.... PERIOD.

Immigration laws are at the federal level. Not the states, nor the police forces, NOR the President should be deciding when they are enforced. PERIOD.

The only way to solve this issue is to change the previous legislation; not finding loopholes or writing new ways to ignore it. If you want an open border or country-wide sanctuary then write to your senator.

Here is another example of how that whole "law" thing works:

If I am smoking a joint on the street and I get caught, should I expect the cop to just let me go because he doesn't agree with the punishment I will face? NO!!!! It would be nice, but I don't feel ENTITLED to it. How should any other federal laws be different?

That is the problem with all of these protesters. They think one group of people should be seen as exceptional, that they are entitled to special treatment. I assure you they are not!

1wizard,

Just briefly, I'm not going to take sides on the debate, but every single one of your calculations is incorrect.

For example, Joe Legal, at his income, would actually have 0 federal income taxes.

Jose illegal would be ineligible for food stamps (which don't actually cover the full cost of food), ineligible for federal rent subsidies, and is ineligible to receive any federal aide. Actually, regarding rent, typically the slum lords that rent to illegals charge them much higher than the going rate (I.E., in my area, agricultural, heavy illegal population, typical one bedroom apartment, to a legal, is about $700.00/month, for an illegal, $950.00 month)

Also, while the "pay under the table" is a great way to label these guys, the typical undocumented worker is usually hired as a "Sub-Tier Subcontractor", even strawberry pickers. This is much easier on the contractor, because it significantly limits their liability. They don't need to have their insurance cover the workers, they have a degree of deniability, and the workers pay automatically has taxes (state, payroll, federal, and social security) deducted from it. If the worker is hurt on site, they have to pay their medical bills themselves. It's actually by doing this that the owner can pay the workers less than minimum wage (pay them per unit rather than per hour), so they are typically paid less than the $8.25/hour mandated in CA.

So in summary... every one of your statements was wildly incorrect. Joe legal would be eligible for each and every one of those federal programs you mentioned, would pay 0 federal income tax (0% for family of 5 making 50K a year).

Jose illegal would be paying into every single one of the state and federal taxes, along with social security, at a much higher rate, since his wages would be calculated as a single-person filer.

Also, Jose Illegal does buy car insurance, since he needs to keep his cars registration tags current. If he doesn't pay insurance, he can't get a new registration tag, he gets pulled over, and deported.

So, in summary, every last one of your statements was wrong, but you missed an opportunity.

Jose Illegal gets hurt, and having no medical insurance, goes to the emergency room (costs usually 3x normal doctor visits), cannot pay the bill (due to all his aforementioned expenses), and the hospital charges the bill as an "unrecoverable expense" which gets reimbursed at 2/3 by the local government.

So... yeah, you have no idea what you're talking about. It's a serious issue, but it's not the illegals that are living large and enjoying all these things at your expense. They're actually paying your bills.

The actual villains in this situation are the employers who are hiring these "Second-Tier Subcontractors", paying them less than minimum wage, the slum lords who jack the rent up, and the many others that abuse the illegals for profit. Because unless these people are stopped, the illegal problem won't be.

A small amount of education would be useful, but I see you'd prefer to make sh!t up. Don't believe rhetoric from either side. Illegal immigration is like water flowing, you have to identify the true source to be able to stop the flow.

Also quite rare... especially from Brown.

"Trust Act"?

So now law enforcement officers are supposed to trust foreign criminals not to commit crimes against the U.S. citizens they are sworn to protect and who pay their salaries?

Much like the so-called "Dream Act" this bill throws the dreams and trust of law-abiding citizens in the toilet to pander to foreign criminals.

dreams and trust of law-abiding citizens along with our hard earned $$$ via tax burdens.

What makes anyone think an illegal would do anything wrong. Is it because they are an illegal!!! Duh. Cali and sense is somewhat an oxy don't you think. Post 1-2 has sense...

Pjam

How about that, sometimes there is too extreme for the extreme.

Thumbs up to Brown on this one.

Being an undocumented alien is not a felony. It falls under civil rather than criminal law. Having said that, if they are arrested by Law Enforcement and are undocumented then they need to be held and deportment proceedings initiated as required by immigration law.

Entering US illegally is a criminal offense.

Sec. 275. [8 U.S.C. 1325]

(a) Any alien who (1) enters or attempts to enter the United States at any time or place other than as designated by immigration officers, or (2) eludes examination or inspection by immigration officers, or (3) attempts to enter or obtains entry to the United States by a willfully false or misleading representation or the willful concealment of a material fact, shall, for the first commission of any such offense, be fined under title 18, United States Code, or imprisoned not more than 6 months, or b oth, and, for a subsequent commission of any such offense, be fined under title 18, United States Code, or imprisoned not more than 2 years, or both...

C'mon Joe, you're going to make Stephen Coder feel bad calling his buddies criminals. So much for his argument about civil vs criminal. They are criminals. Period. I know that the Alien-in-Chief wants all his buddies in here too, but at some point someone has to keep them up and I can barely keep myself up. Send their asses back.

"play a major role in California's economy, with many performing low-wage jobs that others don't want."

I used to live in California; my good paying job in construction is now low paying job only illegals will do! My wife also lost her job to low wage illegals. Are we supposed to go back to school after 35 years in a field of construction to learn a new trade so the rich can prosper off the poor illegals? This is the one thing I feel President Obama has done wrong and hurts Americans. If the Republican's had picked someone else to run against the President I would have made this the President's only term!

the 14th amendment was not supposed to cover tourists, it sure as heck wouldn't have covered people in the country illegally. It reads "subject to the jurisdiction", if they are in the country illegally, they aren't under our jurisdiction, they are under the jurisdiction of their home country. Therefore the child born to 2 parents in the country illegally should not be an American citizen. One of the parents would need to be an American citizen or at least in the country legally.

bagdadjoe, adding in the phrase "Alien-in-Chief" automatically deducts 50 IQ points from anything you say.

Joe said:

Entering US illegally is a criminal offense.

Not everyone deemed 'illegal' is actually here illegally or is even an illegal:

The son of a decorated Vietnam veteran, Hector Veloz is a U.S. citizen, but in 2007 immigration officials mistook him for an illegal immigrant and locked him in an Arizona prison for 13 months.

Veloz had to prove his citizenship from behind bars. An aunt helped him track down his father's birth certificate and his own, his parents' marriage certificate, his father's school, military and Social Security records.

After nine months, a judge determined that he was a citizen, but immigration authorities appealed the decision. He was detained for five more months before he found legal help and a judge ordered his case dropped.

So even after he was proved a citizen ICE/DHS refused to let him go. That is a clear violation of his constitutional rights as a citizen.

michiganvoter said:

the 14th amendment was not supposed to cover tourists, it sure as heck wouldn't have covered people in the country illegally. It reads "subject to the jurisdiction", if they are in the country illegally, they aren't under our jurisdiction, they are under the jurisdiction of their home country. Therefore the child born to 2 parents in the country illegally should not be an American citizen. One of the parents would need to be an American citizen or at least in the country legally.

And everyone who argues that the 14th amendment doesn't cover children of illegals is missing something.

Ask yourself: Why does someone need to have a child in order to stay?

Back when my husband's grandparents were coming in through Ellis Island just after WWI, they showed up at The Island with a list of the skills they had and how those skills could contribute to the economy/country. If you knew someone who was already here, it helped but it was not necessary.

But the law now is that if you do not know someone who is already here, whether it be an employer, educational institution, or family member, you cannot emigrate. No matter what skills you have, you can't immigrate if you don't know someone already here.

So this started the culture of people who jumped the border, had a child on American soil (who are citizens under jus soli) and raise the children to adult hood under the radar, then slip back across the border to Mexico while their child applies for them to come in legally. There would be no need for this if we took out the rule that you have to know someone in order to come in.

Let everyone apply to come in on their own merit, as they used to; let's go back to what worked.

This whole 'anchor baby' debate proves that the 'you have to know someone' rule DOESN'T WORK. We didn't have this problem with 'anchor babies' and 'border jumpers' before the rule was passed just after WWII!!!

And the wait times were shorter back then too--nowadays the wait time (sometimes as much as 20 years) for an application to be approved is because USCIS is trying to trace the family relationship, and for countries with poor or no record-keeping, countries prone to disasters or a lot of conflict where coups change the government constantly, this is darn near impossible. Especially for the indigenous Mexicans, the ones who can trace their heritage back to the Maya and the Aztecs--the darker-skinned Mexicans. Many of these are born in poor villages with midwives, and birth certificates are not common.

Think about it. I think the one thing we cn all agree with is that the current system isn't working; what would we gain by going back to 'the way things were' and what would we lose if we continue going the way we have?

Amanda-2017567

The only solution is to declare war against Mexico and make these illegals OFFICIAL ENEMIES OF THE UNITED STATES.

They have been sending their soldiers into the US to destroy the American economy since the 1900's. It is documented in letters sent to Mexico by American diplomats on the US State Department's Historian website. Mexican presidents have referred to their own people as "wetbacks" who are ruining agreements between the US and Mexico.

Mexicans are responsible for overpopulating and ruining Mexico. The American people should not be punished for the sins of Mexicans.

"Being an undocumented alien is not a felony. It falls under civil rather than criminal law."

Actually, Stephen, it falls under the US *CRIMINAL* Code, not the US Civil Code, therefore it *is* a crime to be in this country illegally. Civil wrongs can be addressed by any entity, including private individuals. Only the State is allowed to prosecute criminal wrongs. So if, as you say, illegal immigration is a 'civil' matter, I would be able to go down to the court house and deal with the matter myself. But I can't. Because it *isn't* a civil matter. It's definitely criminal. Another point is that civil wrongs *never* involve the possibility of incarceration. According to the US Criminal Code, the punishment for illegal entry can be fines, *incarceration*, or both. So what were you saying about illegal immigration not being a crime?

And I notice that you didn't address any of the ancillary crimes illegals commit. Like forgery, identity theft, document fraud, credit fraud, employment fraud, the straw-purchase and registration of vehicles, unlicensed operation of said vehicles, etc. Frankly, IMHO, illegal entry is probably the *least* of the crimes committed by illegal aliens.

Where you are correct is in the question of whether it's a felony or not. It is NOT a felony to enter legally and then remain after violating the terms of one's visa (unless, of course, you lied on you visa app...which means you committed fraud, which *is* a felony). It's still a crime and a violation of immigration law, but it isn't a felony. Nor is your first illegal border crossing (initial offense is a misdemeanor). Re-entering illegally after being deported *is* a felony. Illegal immigration is kinda like robbery. The offense can be escalated by the amount of violence, the use of a weapon, and the value of the stolen property. But a misdemeanor theft is still theft. And being in this country illegally is still a crime.

Stephen said;

Being an undocumented alien is not a felony. It falls under civil rather than criminal law.

Mara said:

Actually, Stephen, it falls under the US *CRIMINAL* Code, not the US Civil Code, therefore it *is* a crime to be in this country illegally. Civil wrongs can be addressed by any entity, including private individuals. Only the State is allowed to prosecute criminal wrongs. So if, as you say, illegal immigration is a 'civil' matter, I would be able to go down to the court house and deal with the matter myself. But I can't. Because it *isn't* a civil matter. It's definitely criminal. Another point is that civil wrongs *never* involve the possibility of incarceration. According to the US Criminal Code, the punishment for illegal entry can be fines, *incarceration*, or both. So what were you saying about illegal immigration not being a crime?

Illegal immigration is a crime. Being undocumented is a civil matter. While all illegals are undocumented, not all undocumenteds are illegal.

Example: me. I was undocumented. Adopted internationally by a US couple, who never told me before they passed away in a car accident. when USCIS does a routine record search and finds they've lost my adoption paper, they come to me looking for a copy and I couldn't give them one.

Not having an adoption paper is not a crime. Never being told I was adopted wasn't a crime. I didn't come here illegally, was adopted legally, had a reissued adoption birth certificate that had my adoptive parents names on it, had a legal SS card and brand new DL at the time they came looking for me. Had just turned 18, could prove I'd been here all my life with report cards and videotaped academic spelling and geography bees (on public record) no juvenile or criminal record, never been in trouble with the law or school (except one fight in sixth grade.)

So since no laws had been broken, I was never arrested. I was 'civilly detained'. No lawyer, no trial, no hearing. there was nowhere to deport me to since as an abandoned infant there was no original birth certificate saying where or when or to who I was born--I have no idea how old I really am, no legal biological parents and no home country. They simply told me i would remain indefinitely detained until i gave them a copy of the adoption paper--and it ended up taking three years because I could only write one letter week from the deportation camp.

Amanda,

We get it, you are not illegal. The fact that you are a citizen caught in the system is terrible. You do however need to come to live in California, The fact of the matter is that not only low paying jobs are being taken over by illegals or undocumented aliens. They have fake papers (ssn, DL, birth certificates, etc.) which is a criminal offence and they take jobs working in fast food establishments, grocery stores, retail stores and other jobs that my 19 year old son would love to have. I personally hate to hear that Americans wont pick fruit because I did, when I was younger there wasnt much I wouldn't pick to earn some money over the summer. I picked cotton, pecans, peaches, berries, and trash off of peoples property (left there by illegals crossing the ranches along the border and up into the state).

When people talk about the hijacking of the 14th amendment, they do have a legitimate complaint. The reason that the 14th amendment was put into place was to recognize former slaves as citizens. This was expanded due to the US v. Wong Kim Ark, this case involved a person born in the US to Chinese parents that were here legally being a citizen. Notice that the parents were here legally, having sntered the US legally and were living in the US and conducting business in the US (legally) thus being under the jurisdiction of the US and bound by the laws of the US. That was in 1898. At this point a president has been set and there is no removing the citizenship from people who were born to foregin nationals that are not under the jurisdiction of the US. If you had ever been in a traffic accident with an illegal you would soon realize that they are not held to be under the jurisdiction of US law. They just leave behind all of the consequences and dissappear taking a new name (more forged papers) and finding a new home.

You are a compassionate person, that much is clear, but some of that compassion should extend to the poor and illiterate that are really citizens of the US. We have enough problems that we cannot handle without taking on the problems of the rest of the world. While I agree that the path to legal immigration needs to be streamlined, I do not agree that the people who have already broken our civil and criminal laws should profit from those crimes by being given citizenship without question. My sister-in-law paid the fees and waited for the proper paperwork to go through before she came to the US to marry my brother. Not cheep and not a short wait, however they waited and did all of this the legal way, as all people should.

While I do understand that some illegals have very heart-rending stories, there are just as many stories that show illegals in a horrible way. Take the illegal that ran over and killed a NUN just last year, he had been deported and returned to the US, he had been arrested for DUI many times and had been let go. Take the case in CA where an illegal was released from detention (processing for deportment) and went out and killed a 15 year old boy on the steps of his home. What about the distruction of our national forrest in Yosemite because of thousands of pot plants that have been planted there and the illegals that have been arrested for tending the plants (stealing water and leaving a huge mess on protected land). And lets not forget the gangs that have migrated north of the border and turned some of our cities into what should be classified as demilitarized zones. Oh, yeah, what about the diseases that have resurfaced in the US after having been gone for years, things like measles, mumps and TB.

Yes there are people here from many different countries and they should all be held to the same standard. They should all be sent to their country of origin and be made to go through the process like all those legal immigrants before them. As I said before the process needs to be fixed, but the law is the law. Those that were brought here when they were very young and have been raised in the US (by the way 12 is not very young) need to be delt with in a compassionate way and our law makers need to make these children some exceptions. Student visas for a start. The parents need to be held to the standard of the law, the choice will be theirs to take their children back to their home of origin or to leave them with friends or family. Having made the decision to break the law they must understand that the consequences are not plesant.

Please do not think that I have race issues, or hate issues, that is not the reason that I think all should be held accountable for their actions. I served to protect this country and its constitution and I dislike seeing it jumped over or gone around just for the votes that it might garner for whatever election is going on at the moment. I have lived in AZ and I live in CA the illegal problem needs to be solved, but as it happens, the issue is to good for stirring up the voters on both sides to get them around the real issues. We shouldn't be worried about protection criminals, we should be worried about the betterment of this country for its citizens ( I know a foregin concept) but how can we help the world when we cannot even help ourselves?

Entering US illegally is a criminal offense.

Sec. 275. [8 U.S.C. 1325]

(a) Any alien who (1) enters or attempts to enter the United States at any time or place other than as designated by immigration officers, or (2) eludes examination or inspection by immigration officers, or (3) attempts to enter or obtains entry to the United States by a willfully false or misleading representation or the willful concealment of a material fact, shall, for the first commission of any such offense, be fined under title 18, United States Code, or imprisoned not more than 6 months, or b oth, and, for a subsequent commission of any such offense, be fined under title 18, United States Code, or imprisoned not more than 2 years, or both...

Entering the country illegally is a criminal matter, being here illegaly is a civil matter. If you catch someone trying to cross the border at an unauthorized place, that is a criminal matter. If someone comes here legally and their visa (or whatever) expires, that is a civil matter. Just another part of the immigration laws that needs to be changed. Overstaying your visa shows intent and should be a criminal matter also. If one is not responsible enough to do their paperwork, it is their own fault.

And as for how this has affected me personally, I was in an auto accident caused by an illegal alien. Totaled my car and required both myself and my children to have to go to physical therapy. Guess who got to pay for all of that?

Or we can also throw out all the whiny assed California liberals that support the law breaking bastards along with them. That wold be a good start too!

Send all the illegals to Sarah's house!

I don't care what it cost - get every damn ILLEGAL out of this country!! Man, woman and child. If because of the screwed up interpretation of the Constitution the kids are legal - too bad! Let the illegal parent make the decision of what to do with them. They chose to come her illegally and pump out kids, let them take them back with them. Since when do kids get a say of where their parents move them?!

Ok, Sarah, I guess I stand corrected. Obviously, there is a great deal to this issue that I was unaware of. And for the record, I don't hate Mexicans. I think that hating someone for a reason like where they were born, or the color of their skin, or anything like that, borders on the insane. However, all of that being said, I guess at the end of the day seeing those high school kids in California burning, spitting on, etc. the American flag really got to me. In spite of our laws, we let them come here, let them work, let them have certain benefits, and they hate us and disrespect us. Kinda hard to be supportive of people under those circumstances.

@Sarah: ...You need to pack up, leave your fluffy little upper-middle class liberal neighborhood and move to Chula Vista, California. ...You can mingle with the illegals you love so much there. ...After living in Chula Vista a year or so your opinions will change, if you manage to survive that long.

I wonder which costs more...$137B to deport

or the money they suck from the economy ?

Sarah, thanks, but to be totally honest I'm not really interested in what the individual undocumented worker is like. I kinda of assume he/she is pretty much just like the individual ___________— (fill in the blank). In other words, all individuals, at the end of the day, are exactly that. Just individuals. My issue with the illegal immigrants is the illegal part. I choose not to ignore that fact that the moment they snuck across that border, they committed an illegal act. Period. And I do understand a bit about how immigration works. I'm a first generation American. My parents immigrated here, and they did it the hard way, which is to say, legally. So obviously I have no issue with people coming here from other countries. Hell, that's what America was built on. I just have an issue with people being allowed, even encouraged, to break our laws. Besides, there are bigger issues on the table now for this nation, and that unsecured border and weak enforcement of immigration laws are the perfect opening for far worse problems in the near future.

Sarah ??
Illegals who aren't self employed still have Medicare and SS taxes withheld,

What about the many illegals in my county, that work for a contractor, under the table? And in my county, there are PLENTY of them workers.

While some of what you say is true, you actually believe then, that we DON'T have a problem?

And why do you say the word HATE when all ones does is voice an oppostion to an issue? I spose you'd call me a racist, because I disagree with some of Obamas policies?

I don't see HATE, I see massive amounts of people, just getting tired of the same ol same ol. Of turning a blind eye to the issue. You also somewhat imply they don't get medical .... wanna bet?

When Obama said during his run for potus, (something to the effect of) "we're not in the business of splitting up families"...well that implies to me, that if 1 household legal, has 19 illegal family members, we're not going to deport ANY of them? Really?

@Sarah: ...I don't know or care where you actually live. However, it's fairly obvious that it IS in some fluffy, upper-middle-class WHITE liberal neighborhood. Otherwise, you would not have the ignorant opinion you do regarding illegal aliens. ...Please, move to Chula Vista and get an education!

...I'd give you the Ignorant, Rich Liberal Award for the day, but the competition for that is just too stiff here on this board! ...LMAO!!!

Sarah-3043284

Weeds put roots down in my yard. Should I give them amnesty? Should I feed and water them, even though they came into my yard looking for food and water. Believe me, they don’t assimilate with my grass and live happily along side. They take it over and destroy the lawn.

Illegals and weeds must go! End of story. Enforce the laws from A to Z. Also, weed your lawn. Your neighbors will love you! ;)

@Sarah: ...LMAO!!! ...So you DO live in an all-white liberal neighborhood! ...LMAO!!!! ...You really need to check out Chula Vista and get an education, Mrs. Whitebread.

Sarah ::: Either you are ILLEGAL or you FLUNKED High School that you can not understand the meaning of ILLEGAL ??????

Sarah, being a human being is not a crime. Being a illegal entrant in this country IS a crime! I hope you can wrap your head around that simple distinction. The way you write I expect you to pop up next trying to prove that one kind of murder is good and another method is bad. That is the kind of fuzzy thinking the ACLU you quote performs on a regular basis.

Sarah you're turning into a troll and you keep repeating yourself. Take a break, push away from the computer.

So Sarah, let me get this right

“Unfortunately, the list of offenses codified in the bill is fatally flawed because it omits many serious crimes,” he said. “For example, the bill would bar local cooperation even when the person arrested has been convicted of certain crimes involving child abuse, drug trafficking, selling weapons, using children to sell drugs, or gangs.

You are not bothered by legislation that seeks to waive holding suspects for federal consideration when they are charged with offences like child abuse, drug trafficking selling weapons and using children to sell drugs or gang members?

I'm not surprised that the illegal immigrant lobbies would wish to include these crimes in their list of release without compliance to Federal law because these are crimes in the United States but for many illegal immigrants from many foreign nations it is a part of their culture for which they do not apologize.

It would be interesting to know where this legislation stands on human, international, trafficking of young children to be used as sex workers for day laborers. Certainly one of the more heinous crimes but one that is so easily ignored until a brothel is busted and you see the stream of you girls and boys who have been forever broken by greed.

As a nation we need to stop altering our own identity to appease the the lowest form of immigrant who's will and wish is to import the depraved side of their national identity upon America.

Sarah, anyone who actually believes we can strictly adhere to the Constitution and survive as a country is sadly mistaken. I believe the only thing keeping the wolf from the door now is a group of folks willing to do what has to be done. All I can hope for is that the folks "violating" some "rights" are decent and don't ultimately get so disgusted by the whole mess that they just say the hell with it and take over themselves.

There is no value in increasing the population of a dying economy, especially with unskilled masses.

What's the value of immigration?

In 2007, the President's Council of Economic Advisers tried to balance these gains and losses. They totaled all the gains, subtracted the losses and concluded that our present immigration conferred a net benefit of ... hold your excitement ... somewhere between 0.22% of national income and 0.60% of national income..

(And as economist George Borjas notes, the CEA could reach the higher end number, 0.6%, only by ignoring the economic harm done by new immigration to the immediately prior immigrants.)

That seems a poor payoff for the disruption caused by mass migration. Imagine if your kid's classroom went from zero non-English-speakers to 10 in just a couple of years. Then you are told that this turmoil is adding just fractions of a penny to the national income? Surely you'd ask: Why are we doing this?

It does not have to be this way. If we chose our immigrants differently, immigration would upgrade the average skill level of the U.S. population. (As is, 31% of immigrants have not completed high school.) If we chose our immigrants differently, they could contribute more in taxes than they require in benefits. (As is, immigrants are 50% more likely to be poor than the native-born.)

Back in the 1950s and 1960s, immigrants arrived with higher skills and soon gained higher incomes than the native born. That's how immigration still works in Canada and Australia. Their immigration systems are race-neutral and favor prospective immigrants who arrive with language skills, advanced degrees or capital to invest.

http://articles.cnn.com/2010-12-20/opinion/frum.immigration.debate_1_dream-act-george-borjas-new-immigration?_s=PM:OPINION

Thank you our teaparty from the left

Sarah...I think the fact that you spoke around Browns reasoning for not applying this legislation speaks for itself.

Oh Sarah, having life experience is not a bad thing. If you must be spoon fed here you go:

http://www.polarisproject.org/human-trafficking/overview

http://www.examiner.com/article/illegal-immigration-fueling-surge-child-sex-trafficking

http://www.wsoctv.com/news/news/9-investigates-underage-girls-being-sold-sex-charl/nP6s6/

http://articles.nydailynews.com/2012-02-12/news/31053334_1_trafficking-victims-trafficking-law-customs-enforcement

http://thecnnfreedomproject.blogs.cnn.com/2012/07/19/teens-brothel-escape-triggers-mexico-clampdown/

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/nation/2012-01-22-us-human-trafficking_N.htm

http://www.chron.com/news/houston-texas/article/Two-dozen-charged-in-major-marijuana-grow-house-3807643.php

http://newamericamedia.org/2012/02/human-trafficking-a-growing-global-scourge.php

I can come up with more if you need.

I suppose what you call prejudice is public conscious...Love the pig analogy by the way, and that pretty much sums up the problems we are facing with Illegal immigration and human trafficking in American. You can dress some pretty little thing up in tight clothes and force her to sleep with 20 men a night for $20 each but after all is said and done it doesn't make being stolen and sold any more palatable.

http://www.fondationscelles.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=87:la-prostitution-des-enfants-dans-le-monde&catid=10:fiches-thematiques&Itemid=12&lang=en

Sarah-3043284

Being a person, is not a crime. Being here undocumented is a civil issue, not criminal.

The United Nations calls it HUMAN TRAFFICKING and it is a crime against humanity.

What is Human Trafficking?

Article 3, paragraph (a) of the Protocol to Prevent, Suppress and Punish Trafficking in Persons defines Trafficking in Persons as the recruitment, transportation, transfer, harbouring or receipt of persons, by means of the threat or use of force or other forms of coercion, of abduction, of fraud, of deception, of the abuse of power or of a position of vulnerability or of the giving or receiving of payments or benefits to achieve the consent of a person having control over another person, for the purpose of exploitation. Exploitation shall include, at a minimum, the exploitation of the prostitution of others or other forms of sexual exploitation, forced labour or services, slavery or practices similar to slavery, servitude or the removal of organs

Mexicans coming to the US illegally are trafficking even if the person is themselves because their intent is to defraud the American people and violate US sovereignty.

Stop wasting your time of the troll that is Sarah. I have recognized her name all the time in threads like these, and she posts half truths and then calls people racist to try to seem like she is intelligent and making a point. We are against illegal immigration yet she wants to make it about people hating Mexicans. She says they pay taxes they dont get back, when a majority of illegals are paid under the table. The ones who have ITIN's are ones who overstay their work visa, not the ones that cross the boarder illegally. We have the most lax immigration laws in the world, so we are not as bad as people like Sarah want us to believe. Illegals cost us way more than 100 billion a year, so it'll actually pay for itself to deport all of them. The reason we cant fix this issue is that we have politicians who pander either to the illegals or the businesses hiring them, and we have people like Sarah who cant go past illegal immigrant talking points and drag down the rest of the country with their ignorance.

She is not worth our time.

Sarah-3043284, "Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah......"

"Fe, Fi, Fo, Fum, I see an illegal alien....Fe, Fum, Fi, Fo, Send 'em back to Mexico"

sara,you should listen to getagrip.MY god girl 11 posts on one issue?unplug and get some air already

Sarah,
In case you never took a logic class, or know what it is, let me explain. If you make a claim you must back up said claim before you expect others to do so. You claimed we are against Mexicans. Prove it. And I mean Mexicans as a whole, and not just illegal ones. And I guess that would mean that I am against myself.
You say that they all have ITIN's. Prove it. Prove day laborers and people workind under the table have ITIN's and pay taxes.
You say how much it will cost us to debort them, then use a statistic from a website devoted to illegal immigrants and you want us to take it as credible.

If you want proof for anything, which I'll gladly provide, please back up any of these things with credible sources. Otherwise we must conclude that you are either a troll, and so ignorant that you are what trolls model themselves after. Either way, you have dug your whole. Please provide proof to climb out of it.

Sarah: "And forgive me if I give more credence to the ACLU, then your opinion".

Wow, there's a surprise...

Getagrip knows what he's talking about. I lived in Chula Vista, when I was in the ninth grade. that's where I first learned about Mexicans. I had to carry a Marine Corps bayonet under my coat and go over the fence in my back yard. Then I had to go two blocks in the opposite direction, so I could get together with a couple of other white kids. Just so we could walk to the school bus stop without getting mugged.

I don't care what it costs either. Round them all up and kick them all out. It would be a better investment than the war in Afghanistan, by far.

Round them all up and kick them all out.

And how well has that tactic been working so far?

It's a pity the ignorant masses on here are collapsing your posts Sarah--you're the only one citing your sources and making your point without being insulting or writing off entire groups of the population based on senseless rhetoric and fear mongering.

To all of you hatin' on the immigrants:

I get it. You're xenophobic. Why else would you be so furious, so hateful? Why else would you continue try and uphold the "round 'em up and deport" mentality, even though it's been proven to be disastrous and expensive? Even when it's been proven that immigration bolsters the economy: http://immigrationimpact.com/2012/01/05/new-report-finds-that-immigration-creates-u-s-jobs/, you'll still want to weigh us down with your fear and ignorance.

And, it bears repeating: Thank god you our forefathers weren't subject to your mantras when they came to America. We'd all be back in England still, burning at the stake as heretics. Shameful, really, your narrow points of view.

@Sarah

I don't see any "citations" or "proof" or "sources" in your talking point posts , interesting , I see the likes of "pjmedia" and some "blog" sites , not hardly bastions of proof , evidence or facts, but I guess that's ok if it keeps feeling like a "critical thinker"

Mr. Burns and John,

You must not have actually read the vine, seeing as in post 4.1 I posted these...

http://www.aclu.org/immigrants-rights/immigration-myths-and-facts

http://www.energyofanation.org/sites/25e1f498-741c-478a-8a08-aa486d8533a5/uploads/undocumented_immigrants_3.pdf

http://www.illegalimmigrationstatistics.org/illegal-immigration-pros-tax-paying-illegal-workers-contribute-to-the-economy/

4.2 included this one...

http://pjmedia.com/blog/illegal-aliens-are-not-criminals/

In 4.7...

http://nopapersnofear.org/

And, 36.1...

http://nopapersnofear.org/

http://tucsoncitizen.com/hispanic-politico/2012/07/23/latinao-grassroots-movement-to-protest-sheriff-joe-arpaio-at-his-catholic-church-in-arizona-3/

http://grassrootsimmigrantjusticenetwork.blogspot.com/

http://www.immigrantsolidarity.org/

Mr. Burns, I thought you were going to ignore me anyway??? And yes, I would like that proof.

AZDR,

I know, how silly of me to trust a reputable organization of licensed attorneys, over Bob on Newsvine.

Preceeded,

Shucks, and here I was really hoping to get inducted into the "Hateful Xenophobe Club". That would look AWESOME on my resume. :)

I'm not afraid of meaningless insults via the internet, from anonymous xenophobes. I'm not afraid of meaningFUL insults, from xenophobes I CAN put a face to.

The only thing I'm really afraid of, is what happens when those who know the truth and see the hate, lies, and injustice, say nothing. Because, somewhere out in the "internets universe", someone with a modicum of sense WILL read this, and they might, just might, change their mind.

"First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win."

-Ghandi

Bipolar,

That's 12. Keep counting, bubba.

Sarah,

I remember when Jerry Brown was governor of California. He was extremely idealistic like you. Critics didn't call him Governor Moonbeam for nothing. He left the state in a financial mess that Reagan righted. When he got re-elected this time, he is a much different man. He still does some silly stuff, but he nothing what he was in his first terms. Nothing.

I think they call it Maturity.

Maturity doesn't run down an idealistic path to the point of rounding up any opinions that agree with you. It sees into the future by reference to the past to keep you from paying for unintended consequences.

Isn't it amazing that when all the "man-cave comments" with plenty of opinion but no basis get interrupted by someone with facts and figures, that all the "high-five fanny-slapping, died in the wool, 29th generation citizens" collapse the comments?

I really don't see the Report this item as: that says, "Sarah hurt my feelings because she disagrees with me in complete sentences."

Go ahead, Sarah. It is good info. The more we understand about the problem, the better the eventual solution.

"Illegals who aren't self employed still have Medicare and SS taxes withheld"

so as long as they're paying taxes it doesn't matter that it's on illegal profit? It is against the law for them to work without authorization. Any monies they earn is earned illegally. Should drug dealers be ignored if they pay taxes on the drug money? Should burglary be condoned as long as the burglar send the IRS it's proper cut? Should fraud be accepted if the fraudster fills out a 1099? Of course not. It's immaterial that some illegals pay taxes. They are paying on criminally aquired profit.

Sarah loves to pull out the whole clan or racism mantra every time she gets stumped in a conversation. I'm beginning to think that you didn't even read the article that stated that even the Governor was not willing to sign that legislation because it allowed far too much latitude in "real" crime. Like those things that we consider criminal that are not so much in Central or South America, VietNam etc.

So you seem so very much more concerned that there is access for foreign nationals to come to the US(crossing the border without checking in), use stolen identity to work (fraud), working and getting paid in cash often times for the cartels (drug dealing, pimping), paying others to transport their minor children because the are not willing to go thought the extra border scrutiny (human trafficking), refusing to come to the aid of their children if caught by border patrol instead allowing for them to be sent back across the border alone (child abandonment and in some instances gross negligence of a child.), allowing the association of their children with gangs and cartels (just general depravity).

No Sarah I have not just grasped onto the topic of human trafficking. I have met countless children who have been forever changed because their parents cared more about what they could get in America than they cared about the welfare and well being of their children. My kids have gone to school with these kids. My kids have been friends with these kids. The bruised are apparent where the scars are hidden until you take time to care about what they live with every day. So I can understand why you would side with the "poor", "down trodden", "ignorant "adults who don't bother to go the legal route or have a family member sponsor them because it is all to easy to break the law or get into bed with the cartels to to establish a life here. It is also pretty hard to get a family member to actually sponsor them because then the family member is on the hook for what they do.

Then there is driving through an area of Houston near Sharpstown or Hwy 6 in Aleif or even down in Rosenberg where girls and boys are "forced" to prostitute themselves to the illegal immigrant men for about what these men make in about an hour. Perhaps forced prostitution does not bother you as long as some poster child bus protesting immigrants get to be in our face and stay in this country.

If someone has comitted the crime of human traffiking, nail their asses, however, let's not pretend that it's nailing the asses of human traffikers that lead to the hatemongering illustrated so clearly in these posts.

If and however...isn't that just the progressive attitude when you can't bother to truly engage in a problem. You can't see a thing if you only pretend to know what you are talking about.

And, by the way, real world experience, while sometimes beneficial, doesn't lend credence to anything you say, seeing as it is specific to you

So what you mean is if I don't gobble up your point of view like cookies I must not be credible. So what of the resources that I spoon fed to you? See if you don't care to expand your horizon to the world around you, again another progressive theme, blissful ignorance, to only have some outward display of compassion.

Perhaps Sarah, you could use a bit of time helping young ESL children how to read because no one is reading to them at home. Maybe you could spend a few hours a week being a child advocate helping the kids, who are destined to be repatriated, be a little less scared because their parents didn't come. Maybe you can step up to be the room mom for an ESL class when none of their parents bother to wlak into their classroom because they made sure they were the first few cars in the carpool lane and if they had to park their car picking up their kids would take longer. I would suggest some time working for the needs of your local woman's shelter. or even something as easy in earmarking you donations so these women had something appropriate to wear in a job interview. Well if you have more time help by teaching a basic computer class to young first generation American teens so they have an opportunity for a job that will support a family because their parents encouraged them to drop out of school at 15 to help pay the bills.

No you won't do that because well you are a progressive and volunteering can lead to some very messy reality.

TX,

Perhaps, you have no clue what I do with my life??? There's really nothing more ignorant then assuming you know what a stranger does/doesn't do with they're life.

Of course you have met "countless children" and your "kids have played with them", because you're using making up another personal story to try to back your position. So tell me, why haven't you brought this up during the NUMEROUS other immigration discussions you've participated in on Newsvine?

Personal stories don't count, because they aren't SOCIAL SCIENCE. They aren't peer reviewed. They aren't capable of being generalized.

All the rest of your tripe about immigrants is debunked in my links. And again, quote where I said I disagreed with this ruling.

PS. I've heard your carpool story before. I wasn't aware it was a sociological, peer reviewed study, however.

I've included some links to where I worked before coming to grad school. Just so you can see how truly asinine you assumptions about me are.

http://www.eckerd.org/ (youth counselor position)

http://www.orchards.org/ (families first counselor)

TX,

One last thing. That was literally the longest post, containing absolutely NOTHING, but blanket generalizations about everything from liberals to immigrants to me, that I have EVER read on the vine. Not ONE substantive or legal point.

And I read your links. No where do they prove or show that human traffiking is the sole responsibility of undocumented workers. I noticed you haven't said anything about the undocumented victims or the U.S. citizens that participate in the practice. But since we're using the exception to prove the rule, I CAN say that all moms from Texas are closet, racists. (And I only throw that word around when it's applicable.)

Well everyone TX has posted some stories filled with sanctimonious hate, prejudice, generalizations and unsubstantiated personal stories. Guess that proves her point.

Oh Sarah I hit a nerve...you make suppositions all over the place and then go crying foul when I presume that you don't really know what you are talking about. Unless, of course your dealer is a member of the cartel or perhaps you are tending to some grow houses where you are from. That would be a good reason to turn a blind eye to the destructive and criminal efforts that come with illegal immigration. Perhaps you are a madam in a brothel where trafficked children are held for the pleasure of those illegal immigrants who do all the jobs Americans won't and well you would be providing a service, after all few get hurt or damaged from this crime, right. Perhaps you have an illegal immigrant boyfriend or girlfriend who occasionally has a paedophilia itch that needs to be scratched (sarcasm intended).

So you have really outdone yourself with the irrational, progressive attempts to divert conversation.

First the rant:

Of course you have met "countless children" and your "kids have played with them", because you're using making up another personal story to try to back your position.

and the statement you made right before showing that you feel some how above the frey but not really:

There's really nothing more ignorant then assuming you know what a stranger does/doesn't do with they're life.

and then the denial:

So tell me, why haven't you brought this up during the NUMEROUS other immigration discussions you've participated in on Newsvine?

I have but you don't engage on those remarks..perhaps because you believe children should be sacrificed.

changing the scope of the discussion

Personal stories don't count, because they aren't SOCIAL SCIENCE. They aren't peer reviewed. They aren't capable of being generalized.

Are you that limited in your scope...of course they are considered in SOCIAL SCIENCE. That is the origin of a peer review...someone has an experience and then chooses to study that experience. They study the experience and realize there is a need for intervention...thus organizations like the Polaris Project...see the above references I spoon fed you because you can't do a simple internet search for crediable resources. Also see the above CNN freedom project link which is to actually educate people about the prevelence of modern day slavery with opportunities to make a difference.

Those are some lovely chairities that you claim to have worked for. I am sure they intend to do some good with the millions upon millions of dollars they collect and disseminate as chairitable contributions. I guess what befuddles me is, if you did really work for these chairities or for outreach that is supported by these chairities, what you had with these opportunities were experineces. Now by your rationale and standards your personal experience did not count because it was not peer review. How sad for you and for those that you maybe helped because let's face it by your own admission you brought nothing to the table, unless of course you actually did some research and wrote something noteworthy for a journal.

I must have gotten under your skin three posts to pout...Where did I every say that human trafficking was the sole responsibility of illegal immigrants?

So this has been fun.

TX,

Yes, racists get under my skin. Especially sanctimonious ones who don't have the guts to admit their biases. If they didn't, well I'd be just like you. The fact that you got under my skin, makes me proud of myself.

I must have gotten under your skin three posts to pout...Where did I every say that human trafficking was the sole responsibility of illegal immigrants?

You're using it as an argument against undocumented workers, and your posts are full of unsubstantiated, anti-immigrant sentiment. It doesn't take a genius.

I never said your personal stories weren't true, I said I DON'T KNOW that they're true, and that they aren't social science. Which by the way, IS NOT based on personal stories posted on the internet, but on the scientific method...

social science
Definition

so·cial sci·ence

NOUN

study of society: the study of people in society and how they relate to one another and to the group to which they belong

discipline studying area of society: a discipline that studies a specific area of human society, e.g. sociology, psychology, economics, political science, history, or anthropology
That is the origin of a peer review...someone has an experience and then chooses to study that experience. They study the experience and realize there is a need for intervention...thus organizations like the Polaris Project...

Your a single person, with a singular experience. That doesn't constitute anything, expect your perception of your personal experience.

So are you claiming that your personal experiences have undergone peer review? That they've been tested, retested, shown to have both reliability and validity, and are accepted by the credible, academic community?

I posted my job experience, NOT TO BACK MY POSITION ON IMMIGRATION, but to show you how asinine your PERSONAL ASSERTIONS and ASSUMPTIONS were about ME SPECIFICALLY. The rest of my sources, WHICH ACTUALLY ARE WIDELY ACCEPTED STUDIES, and not just PERSONAL STORIES, back my position on immigration.

You did notice that when it came to my position on immigration, I didn't say JACK about anything personal, unlike you?

Studying and looking at demographics of an entire group of people, is UNRELATED to either of our job experiences, so your, like 15,000th unproven assumption about who I did/didn't help, is moot. Studies that research the entire demographic of undocumented workers, are applicable here. Do you really not see the difference?

And, posting links to support your position, isn't about spoon feeding people. It's about proving your case. The onus of doing that is on YOU, not ME. Just like I didn't make a snotty comment about you not being able to find information to back MY position, seeing as I don't expect you to have to do that.

So, besides being a bigot, which you clearly illustrate in all of your posts on every topic, what suppositions have I made? Not letting you use your personal stories or make unproven assumptions?

By the way, those are awful long posts, with a whole lot of snot in them, for me to NOT be getting under your skin, right back.

Sarah...are you going to one of those "for profit" no real credential schools? Your irrationality and liberal use of the word "racist" is just silliness because you have no footing in this debate...you dug your hole too big.

You're using it as an argument against undocumented workers, and your posts are full of unsubstantiated, anti-immigrant sentiment. It doesn't take a genius.

Now your just yelling really can't delve into a civil conversation. I have very earnestly discussed the victimization of people in the international trafficking of children and women. The fact that you do not consider the CNN freedom project or the Polaris project credible sources for the imprisonment of human beings is your own personal problem. I didn't think it was racist to be concerned for the lives of other who are victimized by the underworld of illegal immigration. If you refer back to the news story, Governor Brown felt the request to gloss over certain crimes made by the illegal immigrant went too far and did not sign the legislation. My belief is that Brown has some life experience or general knowledge, not documented in peer review, that says, if illegal immigrants are committing crimes that would result in an ordinary citizen receiving jail time then detaining an illegal immigrant who is guilty of such crimes over to ICE would best serves his state.

So there is actually substance that you seem to refuse to acknowledge.

As for Social Science you are saying that my undergrad coursework would never lead me to implement certain aspects of "Psychology" or "Sociology" methodology to my 30 years of life experience since I graduated from University? But your experience and your course work allow you to be "superior" because you only choose to promote studies that agree with your preconceived notions...

I posted my job experience, NOT TO BACK MY POSITION ON IMMIGRATION, but to show you how asinine your PERSONAL ASSERTIONS and ASSUMPTIONS were about ME SPECIFICALLY. The rest of my sources, WHICH ACTUALLY ARE WIDELY ACCEPTED STUDIES, and not just PERSONAL STORIES, back my position on immigration.

Honestly, yelling again. Ok so you posted it so I am, or anyone else reading your remarks, is to believe it?Sure, that makes all the sense in the world...you got paid to do a job, with a job description written by an organization, knowing what your parameters were and presumably with the ability to get paid for overtime from "non-profit" organizations. Somehow you feel you have the moral imperative over my experience through the volunteer work that I have done throughout my 30+ years of adult life. Hint..volunteer used to mean free time and energy to support the greater good. Not so much anymore when people make fine salaries and bonuses for setting up "Non-profits" and get paid for their effort.

So in the rant where you seem to really loose control is the personal attack. Really quite silly and probably has no place in a peer review. How do you know that I am not studying you for my thesis. Hint, you would not be part of the control group.

So that last post of yours was sort of long and didn't really say very much. You need to do better I wish to get published.

TX,

Now your just yelling really can't delve into a civil conversation.

I respond in the same form I'm addressed. You just seem to have more of a talent for being smug, presumptuous and sanctimonious.

I have very earnestly discussed the victimization of people in the international trafficking of children and women. The fact that you do not consider the CNN freedom project or the Polaris project credible sources for the imprisonment of human beings is your own personal problem.

You've very earnestly used it to attack undocumented immigrants, by implying there's some sort of link. When, as anyone with half a brain knows, human trafficking is NOT the sole responsibility of that group. Nor do your sources show that it is. Until you can say that undocumented workers are the only ones who commit human trafficking, or that the majority of undocumented workers commit human trafficking, you're making a prejudiced assumption, based on a personal experience, which is in NO WAY credible.

That makes you a text book, bigot.

If you can't grasp that concept, as well as thinking that interacting with an anonymous person online, without the ability to fact check anything that person says, would be acceptable for a study, there's NO WAY you're smart enough to be working on a thesis.

Somehow you feel you have the moral imperative over my experience through the volunteer work that I have done throughout my 30+ years of adult life.

Never said that. Where did I say that? In your second post to me, you devoted an entire paragraph to the assumption that I've never gotten my hands messy, or had any real world experience dealing with social issues. I showed you that was a wrong assumption. That was the only reason for posting my job experiences.

The only thing I've said about YOUR personal experiences, is that I don't know if they're true, just like you don't know mine are, and that they AREN'T considered any kind of credible evidence to support your point.

As for Social Science you are saying that my undergrad coursework would never lead me to implement certain aspects of "Psychology" or "Sociology" methodology to my 30 years of life experience since I graduated from University? But your experience and your course work allow you to be "superior" because you only choose to promote studies that agree with your preconceived notions...

I think you should go back and study reading comprehension. Show me where I used my PERSONAL EXPERIENCE or JOBS, to support my position on immigration? That's the difference. You're using your personal experience to make claims about an entire demographic. You can look at your personal experience anyway you want, through any lens you want, that doesn't mean they hold any water. You've shown ZERO evidence of any methodology in your carpool and other stories. You haven't even shown evidence that they ever even happened.

Seriously, and you want to claim you're working on a thesis?

Sarah...at no time have I said that human trafficking is the sole responsibility of illegal immigrants, your own bias has lead you to that erroneous conclusion. What I have said is that there is a criminal component that will take advantage of our lax enforcement of immigration laws and sponsor avenues of human trafficking..ie the Mexican Cartels moving people into the United States. It could as easily be organized crime groups from Russia moving people into the UK or Muslim groups moving people into France. Perhaps if your view was not so myopic you would be able to view a larger real world perspective.

You seem so insistent about human trafficking and any foreign national link to the enterprise..do you just not believe that human bondage still exists?

Still yelling, perhaps if you take a breath you could manage some reason in discussion.

Until you can say that undocumented workers are the only ones who commit human trafficking, or that the majority of undocumented workers commit human trafficking, you're making a prejudiced assumption, based on a personal experience, which is in NO WAY credible.

That makes you a text book, bigot.

I never said that because it would be wrong...there are many criminal enterprises that delve into the whole coyote/underground railroad/ kidnap for slavery. Didn't you even bother to look at the resource material I handed you? So let me get this straight...I am a bigot because I am adamant that human trafficking, in any form, does not belong in the United States. I suppose that if I insisted on sending back foreign national women and children who were brought here and abused under this system then I could probably fit some loose description of bigot. I have never claimed that and I tend to agree with sanctuary laws for crime victims that we offer in the United States. Truly, sending many of these victims back could be an automatic death sentence depending upon their country of origin.

What "entire demographic" are you talking about?

You still haven't managed to dig yourself out of this conversation.

Oh man, I might say the same of you working on a graduate degree (perhaps it is really an associates), but then many degree programs will bypass quality of the body of work as long as they are getting paid.

TX,

Oh man, I might say the same of you working on a graduate degree (perhaps it is really an associates), but then many degree programs will bypass quality of the body of work as long as they are getting paid.

This coming from the lady who said she could study anonymous online posts for a thesis, and that her personal experiences included some sort of methodology, without even proving they happened?

What I have said is that there is a criminal component that will take advantage of our lax enforcement of immigration laws and sponsor avenues of human trafficking..ie the Mexican Cartels moving people into the United States

And what I have said is that, without the hatemongering and demonization of undocumented workers, we could better focus on the criminal cartels and gangs.

Excuse me if your claim of only being focused on these cartels and human trafficking doesn't seem true, when you make comments in your other posts, such as this...

So this admitted wetback,

This ignorant wetback expected

This bold and cheeky wetback does not wish to name the company that he works for because they hire illegals.

Note to wetback who likes to gamble

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/09/13/13843734-undocumented-immigrant-says-co-worker-stole-lottery-winnings?commentId=69961748#c69961748

I really can't wait for you to respond with, "There's a difference between a wetback and an immigrant or Mexican".

Or your comments on this article...

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/09/13/13843734-undocumented-immigrant-says-co-worker-stole-lottery-winnings?commentId=69961748#c69961748

And there are MANY, MANY, more. Sounds like you have a thing against immigrants, and you just don't like being called out on it. So you cloak it in these smug, assumptions and put on holier than thou airs, to try and redirect people away from your bigotry. I ain't buying it. If it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, it's a duck.

Perhaps, if you left off demonizing undocumented moms, and immigrants risking their well being, while fighting for rights, you COULD actually make a difference in regards to human trafficking.

In one of those posts, you even claimed to be a Christian. HA! Now, that deserves a chuckle.

"That was literally the longest post, containing absolutely NOTHING"

hmmm , try proof reading your own , I had to do amphetamines to get through them

and every "source" listed is a blog or agendra driven .org , but oh well , you win

"Agenda driven org", that's conservative for "I have to come up with a conspiracy theory, to explain away the facts that don't back up my position". And yeah, that first post of mine, contained no substance, right? Oh, wait, you didn't even read it, seeing as you made the comment about my not having any sources, when they're clearly right there for anyone who's actually read them to see.

Notice how you didn't show how or why, they're "agenda driven", just stated it, right?

What you call "agenda driven" the rest of the world calls, TRUTH.

wow you pulled that from a while back...and that has what to do with this conversation? That was a story where an admitted illegal immigrant tried to abuse the US system and a citizen.

There is certainly more than one way to identify foreign nations in the United States...there are visa holders who don't overstay the terms of their visas sometimes students and sometimes workers and sometimes they are family or fiance's who are sponsored by a citizen. There are green card holders who are individuals working toward US citizenship who have managed to follow the federal guidelines to become citizens. There are Migrant workers who have a visa to come into the United States as seasonal workers. They do their job and return home and often time have a legal and necessary source of income year after year. There are also asylum seekers who may face a real danger if they return to their country. For instance those who would face arrest and imprisonment if they return to their home country for a variety of reasons from practicing the wrong religion to having made negative statements about their government. At one time we recognise asylum seekers from Mexico because they were GLBT individuals and the laws and protections in Mexico did not apply to them. This status was rescinded a couple of years ago I believe, Mexico claims they are now gay friendly.

Then there are those other folks who overstay their visa's or who don't check in at a legitimate port of entry and yes even those who will pay a criminal organization to transport them or family members over the border. Those who have no respect or regard for our laws because they had no regard for the laws in their home countries. Those like the guy from your reference who come here, know how to game the system and then will go crying to our justice system like a baby because his larceny went wrong. Those who sneak into the US with the intent to: work as cheap, sell drugs, transport others for a fee, participate in criminal gang behavior, shoot border patrol agents, use children for their own gratification, set up their own trafficking enterprise or who rent homes to use as grow houses. Those who actually purchase a SS# and use that SS# for any reason are committing fraud. Those who buy birth credentials to make it appear that their children are citizens again fraud. These are the folks who are criminal and have no problem imposing this terrible character trait on America and if ICE determines that they are here illegally they should have the authority to impound and sell their personal affect to pay toward the deportation costs.

You don't know what a Mexican is? A Mexican is a person from the country Mexico. Salvadorians are people from the country El Salvador and Guatemalans are from Guatemala do you see how that works?

I don't have a problem with my point of view on illegal immigration at all and I am not bothered by being called out on and will readily engage. I do this because in Texas we have a tremendous problem with illegal immigration. The need to police those who come here without checking in at the border or overstaying their visas takes tremendous resources away for supporting a better system for those who wish to come here legally. The illegal immigration problem created an entire structure of sanctuary cities because States like mine needed to do something to protect illegal immigrants from becoming victims in our cities. Women would get raped and suffer in silence because if they came forward they risked deportation. So the criminals were ruling the streets and there was a time where citizens disapproving of their presence was just not the worst problem some faced when they died because of a simple health issue or they suffered the victim's humiliation silently.

TX,

So, Jesus said it's okay for you to use the term "Wetback"? That doesn't show any bias on your part at all, huh? It's acceptable for you to use that term? That term isn't racist? That term isn't derogatory?

It has EVERYTHING to do with this conversation, because it shows the bigoted slant to your claims, and shines light on your motivation.

You don't know what a Mexican is? A Mexican is a person from the country Mexico.

So it's okay, because you're only prejudice towards Mexicans, and not all Latinos? Apparently, to you, a Mexican is a "Wetback". By the way, congratulations on using Mexican and not "Wetback".

Your stance on immigration, is DISHONEST, at best.

Again...

http://www.aclu.org/immigrants-rights/immigration-myths-and-facts

http://www.energyofanation.org/sites/25e1f498-741c-478a-8a08-aa486d8533a5/uploads/undocumented_immigrants_3.pdf

http://www.illegalimmigrationstatistics.org/illegal-immigration-pros-tax-paying-illegal-workers-contribute-to-the-economy/

If you had an intellectually honest opinion on human trafficking, you'd admit that it is a separate issue, that is much more broad then simple immigration, and that your very stance on immigration, makes it worse.

Preach all you want about human trafficking, all you care about is getting those, in your own terms, "Ignorant Wetbacks" out of the country. And I don't think, two months ago, was all that long ago.

I can't say it enough...

And there are MANY, MANY, more. Sounds like you have a thing against immigrants, and you just don't like being called out on it. So you cloak it in these smug, assumptions and put on holier than thou airs, to try and redirect people away from your bigotry. I ain't buying it. If it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, it's a duck.

again with the agenda driven sources , very funny indeed

See, you keep saying that, but aren't illustrating how. Your "agenda" is nothing but a conspiracy theory, because you don't like the truth.

From the article:

“Comprehensive immigration reform -- including a path to citizenship -- would provide tremendous economic benefits and is long overdue,” he wrote. “Until we have immigration reform, federal agents shouldn’t try to coerce local law enforcement officers into detaining people who’ve been picked up for minor offenses and pose no reasonable threat to their community.”

Unlike many, I have worked with illegals. I have eaten dinner with and made some friends in the Latino community. I know many legal and a few illegal Latinos. That might make some steam come out of some ears, but yet it is so. I have worked all over the south and in random spots in other parts of the country. I am over 40, white, and on some issues quite conservative. I am not an employer, just a worker. (I include the little bio to forstall the assumptions about my nefarious motives).

I was in South Louisiana for Katrina and I became interested in immigration law. First of all, the quote above from Governer Brown is very pertinent. The problems of illegal immigration in our country don't all have the same definition or fit in the same basket... ie "deport them all right now!" Many of the claims made about illegals are inaccurate. They do pay taxes, entitlements are not given without a social security number in most states (I think Ca is an exception), and many are TRAFFIKED not TRAFFIKERS. There is no legal path to citizenship while in the US, and the legal path while not in the US is extremely difficult for most and impossible for some. Furthermore, pressure and propaganda from the soapbox agendas is causing more untenable laws to be passed to increase the "illegallity" instead of providing a path to "legality".

Most of these people are not monsters. The reasons they came here are oversimplified. Many are victims of the same cartels you group them with. Many have had family killed, kidnapped, bribed, raped, and threatened. Many have lost their livelihood due to Nafta and the "cartel economy". Many have no criminal malice and just don't want their children to grow up subscribed or killed. Demonization of illegal immigrants is the new political fad (well, not so new) but it isn't the solution. They cannot and will not self-deport. The attempts to make them do so is opening the door to human rights abuse. Forced Deportation of ALL will not work. A path to citizenship will work. And it will harness enormous energy and economic payback for our country. It will also facilitate the deportation of the criminal gang element that leaches off of the very illegals that you fear. The cream will rise to the top, so to speak. Background checks will be performed. It could even include provision for military and civil service. It only makes sense.

That being said, Secure The Border or we will have to do this over and over and over......again.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Lxx1FZNCu0

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1630543,00.html

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16459952/

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24054024/ns/business-tax_tactics

OBTW...The cartels are here, just underground and growing bolder. They aren't following the immigrants, they are following the money. I find it sad and ironic that we aren't just a little bit angry with our own citizens on that score....

Henry Thinks...I understand your point and the thing is there was the attempt in 2007 to pass immigration reform and it couldn't get through Congress. Bush even admonished Republican members who did not support the legislation. There were even DNC members who would not pass this measure. The bottom line is the folks who can vote across this country did not wish to offer any legislation that even remotely looked like the amnesty that Regan offered.

There were parts of the 2007 measures that would have resolved issues, like the Guest worker program designed to support the needs of temporary labor type industries like farming, short term jobs from natural disasters or even jobs in construction when an areas is experiencing a boom time and not enough local labor is available. An effort that would legally allow migrant workers to come to the United States and work, subsequently pay taxes on the money they earned if any would be owed. It would be responsive to pay a livable wage and at the end of the work cycle allow these workers to go home to their families and maintain community ties in their home country. That part of the legislation was a win, win for everyone employers, employees and local businesses. It is also a good for the home countries of the employees because they will not be loosing families and will still receive foreign earned dollars going back into their economies.

Then there was provision that undocumented foreign nationals self-deport and are given the opportunity to apply to come back legally and pay a fine. I believe there were even some fast track opportunity so that employment was not disrupted for long. The immigrant community railed against this as a special interest group, sadly there were foreign nationals who would have gladly taken this route to get the "undocumented" out of their lives.

Unfortunately for United States Immigration policy this was probably the last real bipartisan effort in Congress, killing the bill in the Senate. If you look at the amendments to the bill the legislators were all over the map with regard to nullifying some provisions of the bill while others seemed to nullify the the nullifying provisions. One legislator even had a provision in there about WWII refugees.

With regard to Dream act legislation it seems the same old same old treatment was offered. Reid wanted this included as a rider to the Defense Bill even though he new that members of his own party did not agree with that action. It should have been a bill that could stand on it's own merit. It should never have been tied to our National defence.

Personally, I am opposed to the Dream Act as it is written. It isn't that I think the immigrant children don't deserve to study here or work here it is because the precedent had been set by the Regan Amnesty. That was supposed to clear the slate for illegal immigration so our system could then deal with the ongoing issue of green card for citizenship. In reality all it did was open illegitimate avenues for immigrants to overstay visas and enter illegally. My concern with the dream act and in particular the Presidents action of using an Executive order will only increase the illegal importation of children through criminal means because odds will be in their favor that it will be offered again. What we need to do is to offer an opportunity for these kids to apply for a Foreign Student Visa. The obvious downside to this effort is they would be foreign students and would loose residency rate for State Universities. The greatest concern is that more and more illegal immigrant parents who initially come alone will be encouraged to take advantage of the Coyote system or the Cartel System for their children. It is happening now and we will never know how many children have died in the deserts or at the hands of those paid to bring them to the US.

Sarah I could care less if you or anyone else call me out. I know that you have no clue and you are truly emotion driven even though you believe you are being logical, somehow. It was a nice distraction yesterday from cleaning floors and ironing and giving the dog a bath.

So how can an opinion be dishonest?

Also I'v never said all Mexicans are wetbacks...I used that term in reference to the subject of that particular article and I might have used it in reference to those fools who were doing the cross country bus tour. Sadly, when they were arrested...

“ICE has taken no enforcement action against the Ride for Justice activists arrested Tuesday in Charlotte. ICE is focused on smart, effective immigration enforcement that prioritizes the removal of criminal aliens, recent border crossers and egregious law violators, such as those who have been previously removed from the United States.”

I just wonder if ICE, under the direction of Janet N allowed ICE to run checks to see if any of the participants were: criminal aliens, recent border crossers or egregious law violators. I think it would have been an imperative for each of them to be checked for gross violations of US law. So yes I may have used the term in reference to them.

As for Mexicans...are you suggesting all Mexicans are illegal immigrants? The answer to that is no, there are a great many Mexican Nationals in our country legally who wish to retain their Mexican Herritage and citizenship. Of course there are the many Mexicans who are naturalized American citizens now or working toward that goal. Some of these immigrants are dirt poor but they do wish to take the legal path in order to fully participate in our system. The legal process has not ground to a halt and although difficult we are still working our legal path to citizenship for those who have made a commitment. The problem there is that so many foreign nationals who have come here illegally for some reason feel they are above the process that we offer and for some illogical reason feel they have a right to the same access to America as foreign nationals who follow the law as a path to citizenship. I have a tremendous respect for the people and families who have waited patiently for their turn to take the oath of citizenship regardless of their origins. I truly admire their journey and find their stories fascinating.

Your all or nothing premise to place everyone who disagrees with you in the same box is flawed.

Sounds like you have a thing against immigrants,

You are so clueless it is now sort of sad to continue this line of discussion. I have been an immigrant in another country, legally of course. I would have never considered any other status. I live in a very ecletic community, granted my neighbors are here legally or have already gone through the naturalization process. It is very nice that way because each of us can express our own identities openly and share the best of what each of us bring to the table. We bought this house in this community for that very reason because our kids had been in an international setting and it has proven to be beneficial. So you really have lost control of this conversation when you assume that I have an attitude against immigrants across the board. I am truly sorry that you feel somehow threatened by my opinion of illegal immigrants who have chosen to circumvent our system simply because it suites them. I am sorry you have no compassion for the children and women who are trafficked into this country as sex slaves. I am sorry you have no compassion for the children who die in the desert or in crowded shipping containers simply becaue ther family chooses not to risk bringing them in themselves or by safe means. But most of all I am sorry that you do not look at the illegal immigration issue as one that has a variety of components...It is certainly not as simplistic as the law breaking illegal immigrants or you think it is rather an issue with much gray area.

TX,

You didn't answer my questions...

So, Jesus said it's okay for you to use the term "Wetback"? That doesn't show any bias on your part at all, huh? It's acceptable for you to use that term? That term isn't racist? That term isn't derogatory?

Twist, preach, assume, generalize, be sanctimonious, be smug, all you want, if it makes you feel better about yourself, you have no moral ground to stand on...

So this admitted wetback,

This ignorant wetback expected

This bold and cheeky wetback does not wish to name the company that he works for because they hire illegals.

Note to wetback who likes to gamble

P.S. You're wasting your time, with the five paragraphs essays. If you think I'm reading all that ignorant, substance-less, self righteous tripe, I've got a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you. The above quotes, tell me all I need to know about you.

Sarah you are seeming more and more unstable as this conversation goes on. I get that you don't agree with faith so what is the point in you asking questions about faith...aren't you some sort of Madeline Murray O'hare devotee?

Yea well, I do think you would have a difficult time grasping anything beyond very simplistic ideology regarding immigration. I have probably amused myself enough with your perspective. But you are so intent on engaging and it seems when you have lost one line of dialogue you seek out another...much like a mouse chasing the scent of cheese in a maze.

<[default] http://www.tei-c.org/ns/1.0:note rend="inline" xmlns="http://www.tei-c.org/ns/1.0" type="source">811.06 Mexico/12–453

Memorandum by the Acting Secretary of State to the President¹1. Drafted by Mr. Belton.

[Washington,] December 4, 1953.

CONFIDENTIAL

• Subject:
• Mexican Migrant Labor Agreement Negotiations

In view of the great public interest in the Mexican migratory labor problem, you may want to know the present status of the subject:

The agreement regulating the legal entry of migrant laborers from Mexico expires on December 31, 1953.²2. This accord was the revised Migratory Labor Agreement which was negotiated on June 12, 1952, to replace the 1951 bracero agreement with Mexico. This agreement, while of use, has not prevented an alarming increase in illegal entries. Both Governments desire a new agreement, but the United States requires certain fundamental changes to make a new agreement worthwhile. Primarily, these would limit the power of Mexican authorities to obstruct operations by unilateral and arbitrary actions and would make legal entry more attractive to laborers and the use of legal laborers more advantageous to employers, thus reducing illegal entries.

Ambassador White is presenting the United States viewpoint very effectively, but there is yet no assurance a new agreement will be achieved.

Plans are now being formulated whereby, in the absence of an agreement after December 31, Mexican laborers who apply for admission to the United States can be processed unilaterally under essentially the same safeguards as at present. It is anticipated that a large proportion of those now entering illegally can be diverted to controlled legal channels. This will be much more in the United States interest than the present situation.

The Mexican Government will be reluctant to see the United States undertake a unilateral program and may accept our principles for an agreement when it sees we are determined to do so. At any rate, it will be informed of our readiness to return to bilateral operation whenever it cares to accept these principles.

Some Mexican criticism of a unilateral United States program is inevitable. This would not be likely to affect our overall friendly relations and is a moderate price to pay for effective control over a potentially dangerous security situation on our southern border. Investigations are now under way to determine the feasibility of simplifying our entry procedure for all Mexican visitors in such a way as to create a favorable impression in Mexico and eliminate a large proportion of any adverse reaction.³3. In a memorandum to President Eisenhower dated Dec. 28, 1953, Secretary Dulles stated that no new agreement was likely before the expiration of the existing one, and that postponement of the expiration date seemed undesirable from the American point of view. However, in order to allow the Mexican Government one last opportunity to reach an agreement with the United States, the Secretary recommended deferring the operation of the unilateral recruitment program until Jan. 15. This would permit the Mexicans to realize that the United States was serious in its proposals and allow them time to accelerate negotiations with us “before we are under way alone.” (811.06(M)/12–2853)

Walter B. Smith

TX,

Again...

You didn't answer my questions...

So, Jesus said it's okay for you to use the term "Wetback"? That doesn't show any bias on your part at all, huh? It's acceptable for you to use that term? That term isn't racist? That term isn't derogatory?

Twist, preach, lie, put on airs, assume, generalize, be sanctimonious, be smug, all you want, if it makes you feel better about yourself, you have no moral ground to stand on...

So this admitted wetback,

This ignorant wetback expected

This bold and cheeky wetback does not wish to name the company that he works for because they hire illegals.

Note to wetback who likes to gamble

P.S. You're wasting your time, with the five paragraphs essays. If you think I'm reading all that ignorant, substance-less, self righteous tripe, I've got a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you. The above quotes, tell me all I need to know about you...

Hence, this is all I will continue to respond to you with, because it is all anyone needs to know about you.

Sarah again I am not discussing faith with an O'hare devotee. Besides your question is just stupid. You have lost the argument on all grounds and for some reason you think bringing religion into what is clearly an issue of Government. I happen to believe very strongly in the separation of church and state. We actually have laws that for immigration. They need to be upheld.

TX,

Sarah again I am not discussing faith with an O'hare devotee.

More assumptions, shocker. You see, when I made a claim about you being a racist, I was able to back it up with YOUR words...

So this admitted wetback,

This ignorant wetback expected

This bold and cheeky wetback does not wish to name the company that he works for because they hire illegals.

Note to wetback who likes to gamble

So, quote where I've ever said anything about O'Hare.

Besides your question is just stupid.

This coming from the person who said this...

So this admitted wetback,

This ignorant wetback expected

This bold and cheeky wetback does not wish to name the company that he works for because they hire illegals.

Note to wetback who likes to gamble

You have lost the argument on all grounds and for some reason you think bringing religion into what is clearly an issue of Government.

You really have a hard time following along. Quote where I brought religion up as an argument in support of my position on immigration? No, no, no, silly lady, I brought Christianity up, to illustrate your hypocrisy. That you've claimed to be a Christian, and then made comments like this...

So this admitted wetback,

This ignorant wetback expected

This bold and cheeky wetback does not wish to name the company that he works for because they hire illegals.

Note to wetback who likes to gamble

Or perhaps, you're just twisting things to get around having to answer my very basic questions, because that would take actually having the guts to admit you're prejudice and lack any credibility.

I mean, are we really supposed to give credence to your opinion of me, or anything, when you say things like this...

So this admitted wetback,

This ignorant wetback expected

This bold and cheeky wetback does not wish to name the company that he works for because they hire illegals.

Note to wetback who likes to gamble

Again...

There are MANY, MANY, more. Sounds like you have a thing against immigrants, and you just don't like being called out on it. So you cloak it in these smug, assumptions and put on holier than thou airs, to try and redirect people away from your bigotry. I ain't buying it. If it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, it's a duck.

I mean, they are SUPER SIMPLE. Just a simple yes or no will suffice...

So, Jesus said it's okay for you to use the term "Wetback"? That doesn't show any bias on your part at all, huh? It's acceptable for you to use that term? That term isn't racist? That term isn't derogatory?

The above quotes, tell me all I need to know about you...

"Wetback"?..."It's acceptable for you to use that term? That term isn't racist? That term isn't derogatory?"

ouch , you would probabnly be surprised to hear what illegal Mexican's call YOU behind your back , make sure you chastise some of them Ms. Perfect

John,

I don't know about you, but my parents stopped accepting, "Well they did it too" as an excuse when I was, like, three.

And "THEY" don't. I'm sure SOME of them use racial slurs about me, just like SOME of us, use racial slurs about them, (i.e. TXMOM). But in general, they are no more or less bigoted as a group then we are.

And I noticed, you didn't answer my questions, either...

So, Jesus said it's okay for you to use the term "Wetback"? That doesn't show any bias on your part at all, huh? It's acceptable for you to use that term? That term isn't racist? That term isn't derogatory?

Keep trying, one of you "zingers" are bound to make sense sooner or later.

Again Sarah keeping the conversation in perspective...I used that term to apply to an illegal immigrant who was attempting to abuse a US citizen while attempting to defraud the government. Would you really expect anyone to look upon this illegal immigrant favorably.

I would also have no problem using that term toward the "in your face" illegal immigrants who have gone on their bus tour and finally gotten themselves arrested for show at the DNC convention so ICE could make a bold statement that they would not be deported...I would line to know if ICE did a background check on those arrested had criminal records.

I have no idea if Jesus would approve of the term "wetback". I rather imagine in his day "wetback" probably described the last of the Jews to make it through the red sea during the exodus.

Of course it shows bias against people who will break our laws and openly disrespect our American heritage. Everyone has some bias it isn't a shameful reaction.

Funny thing about that term, back in the 60's and 70's Hispanics with documentation to live or work in the US used it to distinguish themselves from those who crossed at the Rio Grand without checking in at the border.

http://merriam-webster.com/dictionary/wetback

Actually the term is not racist as it refers to a group of people who break immigration law and not to the entire Latin community. As it stands in the US today the term could as easily translate to Obama's welfare auntie or to his drunk uncle living openly in the US without documentation.

Yes the term is derogatory. are you under the impression that I am compelled to be politically correct when it comes to illegal immigrants who openly flaunt their undocumented status in my country. It is offensive to me when people insist that we must sterilize language to somehow offer legitimacy to those who have so much contempt for our laws and the American culture that they will get in the face of the country that fosters them even when they crash the party and insist they are due a goodie bag.

TX,

Excuses, excuses, excuses. I've never seen such a desperate attempt to justify, such clear hate and bigotry.

Yes the term is derogatory. are you under the impression that I am compelled to be politically correct when it comes to illegal immigrants

Nope, I'm under the impression, you're a bigot when it comes to Mexicans.

Actually the term is not racist as it refers to a group of people who break immigration law and not to the entire Latin community.

Right, and the "N" word, actually refers to ignorance. I'm sure you use that, and then make the same excuse about how there's a difference between black people and "n-'s" right? Funny thing about the "n" word, black people used to accept that too.

If that's the justification, you use to get yourself to sleep at night, that's on you. The rest of the world sees you for what you are.

I have no idea if Jesus would approve of the term "wetback". I rather imagine in his day "wetback" probably described the last of the Jews to make it through the red sea during the exodus.

Yes, I remember that...

"And Jesus sayeth to his apostles...."Go forth, and use thy slurs against my disenfranchised, my poor! Justify your actions, in my name. Amen."

It is offensive to me when people insist that we must sterilize language to somehow offer legitimacy to those who have so much contempt for our laws and the American culture that they will get in the face of the country that fosters them even when they crash the party and insist they are due a goodie bag.

Right, this is about their immigration status, I'm sure. So what do you call undocumented people from Asia? Africa? Europe? Canada?

Nope, this is about YOU, and YOUR hate, and YOUR ignorance, and YOUR bigotry, and YOUR inability to open YOUR eyes. You can dislike their undocumented status all you want. MANY people do. MANY people also do so without using slurs.

Nope, your language has shown it for all to see. You, are quite simply, prejudice.

You are no better, smarter, or different, then all the rest of the people posting their flaming, hateful, rhetoric on this vine.As I said at the beginning, no group is more vitriolic in their hatred, then the "I hate Mexicans" crowd.

So thank you for finally admitting it. I'm sure you'll go spit on some undocumented "wetback" for this, but again, that's on you.

So this admitted wetback,

This ignorant wetback expected

This bold and cheeky wetback does not wish to name the company that he works for because they hire illegals.

Note to wetback who likes to gamble

Yup, you can dress a pig up in a silk dress and call it, Lola, at the end of the day, it's still a pig.

Sarah honey I'm not desperate I am just shaking my head while you run around on your little wheel.

There you go again with the all or nothing. I have no problem with Mexicans I have a problem with illegal immigrants, those who choose to cross our borders without checking in/ That includes individuals from many different homogeneous groups, I'm not just picking on illegal immigrants from Mexico. Rather including individuals who some how feel entitled to live in this country after their visa's expire or those who pay criminals to bring them here or those who feel they can just pick a place to cross without a proper point of entry. You seem so limited and yet your hate-mongering and personal bigotry is showing. As for the "N" word, you are just making stuff up now and it is just an indication of your own insecurity.

Again with the yelling. Obviously your reading comprehension is low because we have covered that, I think that it is reasonable to deport anyone who has overstayed their visa or in the country illegally. You don't seem to be able to move the needle off the scratch.

TX,

Honey, your excuses are getting more and more juvenile and pathetic. Justify away, lady. Justify away.

As for the "N" word, you are just making stuff up now and it is just an indication of your own insecurity.

Making stuff up is insecurity? So where are those quotes of mine dealing with O'Hare, that you claim I follow? Or did you make that up? What about you're accusations that I've never volunteered, or worked with kids/gotten my hands dirty? Where's your evidence, or were you making that up? Where's your proof of your claim that your personal experiences, include some sort of methodology, or were you making that up? Where's your evidence of your claim that you're studying me for a thesis, or were you making that up?

These are all yes/no questions too, so you shouldn't have too much trouble answering them. And I will continue to ask you to.

There you go again with the all or nothing. I have no problem with Mexicans I have a problem with illegal immigrants, those who choose to cross our borders without checking in

Right, just like people of your ilk, say they have no problem with black people, just the ignorant ones, to justify their use of racial slurs.

Your words speak for themselves...

So this admitted wetback,

This ignorant wetback expected

This bold and cheeky wetback does not wish to name the company that he works for because they hire illegals.

Note to wetback who likes to gamble

At least I have a rational reason to believe you use other slurs, seeing as you have no problem using this one. In fact, you seem to feel like it's a good thing to do. That's called circumstantial evidence, not making stuff up.

Is using this term a good thing to do? Is using this term a moral thing to do?

I will continue to ask you these until you answer them, also.

No, I won't move the needle a scratch, because bigotry, is bigotry, is bigotry. It's unjustifiable. Although, you're making a really awesome effort to.

You have the guts to use the term, at least have the guts to own the hate that term encompasses. Your worse then overt racists and Klan members. At least they have the guts to own it.

Why don't you ask your preacher this Sunday, what Jesus would think of using that term, since you claim to be a Christian. Never mind, you don't have the guts.

P.S. Your "holier-than-thou" airs, combined with this...

So this admitted wetback,

This ignorant wetback expected

This bold and cheeky wetback does not wish to name the company that he works for because they hire illegals.

Note to wetback who likes to gamble

Is really amusing.

Sarah, I don't know about holier than thou or airs but I can honestly say that I have managed to abide by and respect the Laws, immigration included, of every country that I have lived in or visited. It really is not terribly difficult to respect the culture of host countries.

As for the illegal immigrant whose intention was fraud...The good news is that he has been detained by ICE. Perhaps they will deport him and his lawyer can continue to seek reward for his claim while he is back in Guatemala. It would also be nice if ICE followed up with his employer to see if they have a habit of hiring illegal immigrants.

Anybody supporting illegals in aiding in a commission of a crime and should be punished accordingly!

If you get caught doing something wrong in MEXICO you go to jail,no food stamps or rent money ????

nothing new

Obama doctrine violates the United States Constitution and is it self illegal and in support it so are you!

Who said go Biden/obamy? And I put the smart one first!

...Jerry Brown should have the Illegal-in-Chief locked up pending deportation too!

Getagrip needs to get a grip. I'd like to know how a citizen born in Hawaii is illegal? You shouldn't listen to knotheads.

@Kat: ...Ol' @getagip HAS got a grip! ...King Obama was not born in Hawaii and you must know that, even though your twisted Socialist pride won't let you admit it.

@melvin: ..."fausly"??? ..."humen"??? ..."regestered"??? ...Can you spell "functional illiterate" ...LMAO!!!

grip: you really should watch that, "people who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones", thing.

Your grammar is atrocious.

@Melvin: ...You are the ignorant one here. ...Get a grip!

1)There are A LOT more people here than there were in the 1700's. We are out of room!

2)"sence"???? ...You are obviously illiterate and not worth any more of my time.

lacking a grip: As I recently flew over this great nation (well, not great because of you, that's obvious), I contemplated the once vast regions, like Wyoming and Colorado, for instance, that had become so full of people, and how and where we would put any more...

Okay, that's not really true. I saw plenty of space available.

I think there is definitely someplace that is quite empty, but it's apparently between your ears.

Oh, I know what you meant: we have no more room for people who are not pale...gotcha.

Garth, you reallly need to stop flying over and get a ground-level look at some of the land that you want to fill with illegals. Unless of course, you want said illegals turned loose on said land to die of starvation. Oh! Oh! Wait! You will give them welfare and food stamps so they won't have to worry about living expenses. Get a grip and think first.

Melvin - "Prior to the rev. war of the seventeen hundred, this, what you are saying, was what England was doing to the colonies."

You really don't have a clue about anything do you?

The colonies were the immigrants, and look how well it worked out for the native Americans. The only difference is that they were not illegal because America was not yet civilized with codified laws.

Thank OdumbO and his wet dream act for illegals.

The person who wrote about Joe Legal and Jose Illegal, hit the nail on the head!! But please don't think it is only in California. Illegal immigrants benefitting from AMERICANS working is ALL OVER THE COUNTRY. It needs to be stopped. It is killing our economy. Do you think any other country would allow illlegal immigrants to "take over" absolutely not. They come here, we have no idead who they "really are", take over our schools, jobs, healthcare, etc... as we Americans are struggling to survive. In Jupiter, Fl, every Friday, they are all over the streets walking, on bikes, and yes DRIVING DRUNK!!! Nothing is done about it. If it was an American, white, black , Asian, or even hispanic, We would be arrested. IT is a disgrace to our country!!! And if you think Obama is going to change that, think again.

Maybe, if Romney is elected, a change will be made. Teddy Roosevelt, did it. He got rid of all illegal immigrants when our ecomony and the welfare of american citizens was suffering. IT IS TIME FOR HISTORY TO REPEAT ITSELF in a positive way. SEND THEM HOME, shut the border!! We need to stand up as AMERICANS and make this happen.

Pat G:

You do realize that all illegal immigrants aren't from Central and South America. There are illegal immigrants here from Canada, Europe and Asia as well.

REMEMBER THE ALAMO!

Really? maybe you should do some due diligence on the history surrounding that battle and you'd realize that some of your folk heroes were actually criminals on the run from both the U.S., and Mexican Governments, as well as the fact that they wanted to cecede from the U.S. (Texas considered itself to be it's own country from 1836-1846).

Pat G. The alamo, was stolen from mexico, along with the rest of texas. Your argument, just don't hold any water! Get out your history books, and learn, just how this part of history, IS another black eye to america. From the time europes pilgrams, lied, cheated, and killed for lands thay wanted, to the illigal overthrow of the country of Hawaii, and you will eather hide your fase, or close your eyes to the truth. DUMMY!!!!!!!!

Pat G. you also should be made to be deported, since your family was illigal aliens!!!!!!

Hey Melvin, the Alamo wasn't stolen from Mexico - they lost it, just like the rest of the land they lost!

Joe Veteran - You do know that over 80% of illegals are from Latin America don't you? The Alamo is perfectly appropriate.

P.S.

"some of your folk heroes were actually criminals on the run from both the U.S., and Mexican Governments, as well as the fact that they wanted to cecede from the U.S."

And yet unlike you, they still decided to stand up for their land and fellow countrymen rather than bow to foreign criminals.

Actually MELVIN'S deplorable ignorance regarding the Alamo is typical of American Progressives, particularly those who support America being overrun by Illegal Aliens. Not only was neither the Alamo, nor Texas st9olen, but they didn't happen at the same time. The battle for the Alamo occurred in 1836, during the Texas war of Independence and in which the United States, as a country, did not participate. Once Texas became a free nation they petition the United States and they were admitted as a state, the only state to join as an Independent country. The war with Mexico, ending with the battle of Vera Cruz was less than 10 years after the Alamo and no fighting too place on this side of the Rio Grande.

"Maybe if they did that in the 1900’s half of you wouldn’t be here."

You're saying half of America came here illegally during the last century? Nothing like making inflated comments in an attempt to bolster an empty stance... it really makes you look less ignorant. (sarcasm)

...Deport them ALL (including anchor babies!) and sieze all their assets!

Barry606

Obee losing all those key voters

More science fiction from the fringe element.

Here's a Fact:

Obama isn't the one that gave amnesty to millions of illegal immigrants (Reagan did)

Here's your challenge:

Name ONE republican candidate that doesn't try to corner the Latino vote.

Before you post know of what you speak.

Right, Joe! And why shouldn't they? They are americans! And I'm glad they are here!

There is a major difference between the "Latino vote" and undocumented aliens. One group worked and paid for their citizenship and their vote. The other group came over our borders and do not have citizenship rights or a vote. Legal vs illegal, documented vs undocumented. Try to figure out which group is which and get back to us with the answer.

What is it that people can't understand about the word ILLEGAL ??????

People understand "illegal", liberals pretend not to understand because the reality of it conflicts too much with the fantasy they have been gullible enough to accept.

in phx they were just released. and they say the want to be American, ha. Obama gave them a way to be here for 2 yr and now they are mad because in az they still can not get a driver licence. give an inch want a mile, they are driving anyway and with out insurance (which is against the law here) but that is what the illegal wants the they will do what ever they want. to hell with American laws. DEPORT ALL ILLEGALS THAT IS THE LAW-- Obama is a traitor and has betrayed the American people.

Yes they are illegals, but they aren't leeching off the system like some would have you believe. Try looking no further that the business owners that for decades have hired them instead of U.S. citizens because they can pay less and demand more from them. Try looking at the land lords that rent/lease to them without verifying citizenship because they can charge them more and know they won't be reported for it. Should they be deported? YES, but look at the bigger picture surrounding the issue. Illegal immigrants are the new slave labor, which means they are considered cash cows. If this issue was serous enough then it would have been being enforced when it started.....in the 1800's.

Joe veteran - So because some business owners and landlords cater to them you think they are not also leeching off the rest of us?

Because they are "cash cows" for unscrupulous businessmen does not mean that they aren't also costly nightmares for the rest of Americans trying to raise their families and pay their own bills.

Thank you Joe. If we legalized every illegal today we would have to import 11 million new Illegals just for the demand. Business used them to break construction unions, meat cutters etc. When Arizona passed their law their biggest opposition was from the American Chamber of Commerece. They would not be coming if there wasn't work for them and there must be a lot of work as the money just sent to Mexico is their 3rd largest source of income. The USA the ATM for Mexico. We are one of the few countries in the world that doesn't have a national identification card, make it biometric and it would go a long ways to solve this problem. The whiny liberals are simply being used by some pretty powerful financial interests.

Been there, done that...

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/09/28/14140024-us-immigration-chief-same-sex-ties-are-family-ties

They were actually shorter.

Sarah::: If you like the Illegals so much why not move to their Country and help them to a better way of life instead of helping to destroy the US ????? Take our non citizen leaders with you !

Ahhh, you're a birther, that explains a lot.

Obama* did state that his aproval rate is high " in the country where "he "was born". and he was talking about Kenya.

There is even a Barrack Hussien Obama* birthplace monument in Kenya.

He will have more flexibility after the election. and "it is not a tax".

The democrats had full control of the Senate, Congress and an Obama* white house during his first year and there is no immigration reform like he promised. all that they did was, "let's pass the law and fix it later". (pelosi,Reid,biden, Obama*) and they are still lying about it.

Keep the illegals in jail untill their homes are rented to someone else, and their jobs are given to someone else, and their schools drop them.

800,000 children of illegals just registered for a 2 year plan that gives INS and ICE the information to locate them and IRS will be wanting those back taxes.

If you are dumb enough to believe Obama* then you deserve to get betrayed by Obama*.

As soon as the employers are prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law for HIRING them....I can't "get behind" the "deport all the illegals" meme. Hypocrisy and scapegoating at its worst.....oldest chicken @!$%# racist bigotry in the book.....and always proved so by our history. Sure....we'll exploit their desperation in coming here illegally by paying them criminally low wages....but not recognize the disproportionate contribution they make to the profitabilty of the people and businesses that employ them......not to mention the lower prices we *all* pay for our food were it not for them. And many them *do* pay taxes....many taxes.

Sorry Scott. The problem is NOT employers. The CRIME is committed by the illegal immigrants sneaking into the US. Catch them and send them back where they came from. If they are caught twice throw them in jail for a year, if caught a third time put them in a gravel production camp for five years, if caught a fourth time then execute them. Most importantly the US government needs to secure the US borders. Not just to keep illegal immigrants out but also to keep out drug smugglers and terrorists.

Martha, That would not be ' Stewart ', would it ?

Yes the problem is employers, if illegal aliens could not find a way to survive in America, they would not come, nor stay.......Go after employers hard and heavy for breaking written federal law and the illegal alien problem will vanish, pronto.

The one thing they are doing is providing a first-hand show of how Mexico became the cess-pool that they ran away from.

"Hey everybody, lets 'trust' criminals because that is easier..."

@melvin: If you study up, you'll learn that even us Native Americans immigrated from Asia many, many years ago.

However, things are also different now from what they were when the first Europeans arrived in America. ...There was plenty of room then. ...We are out of room now and do not need any more immigrants, legal or otherwise.

desperately trying to get a grip: Obviously there's no more room in your trailer park. However, there is plenty of room here.

You need to get out of your mom's single wide more often. :-)

Go back to the church... it's time for your next confession...

Melvin - "The only true americans, of this country, are imprisoned, by the true aliens, who came from Europe"

Really Melvin? Please tell us, which laws did they break? What countries border did they violate? Which law-enforcement agency was in charge of enforcing the border? Where would the trials and detainment of the "criminals" have taken place?

There is no illegality were there is no law and no judicial system.... sadly you seem to want to return to that despite understanding exactly how well it worked out for Native Americans.

How about we get back on track and talk about those being kept in jail per request of a federal law enforcement agency?

This isn't about the much larger problem of illegial immigration or line jumping, it's about maybe people who need to be in jail and then sent home or jail, to not just Mexico but all points south and to the Far East.

Today they like to pretend that we can't even build a 2,000 mile wall.

Over 60,000 miles of Interstate highways alone in the U.S. complete with drainage, tunnels, bridges, overpasses, underpasses, intersections, barriers, lighting, signage, paint, maintenance, etc.... but a 2,000 mile wall simply erected along the border is "too difficult". It is laughable, 10 crews doing 200 miles each could have it done in 4 years, 20 crews doing 100 miles - 2 years.

You sure peeled the right banana on that one.

I guess the view from your single wide isn't as rosy.

Perhaps if you educated yourself and worked harder, you could make more money.

Until such time arrives (which is probably like...never), stop being so jealous of those who have it better than you.

you sound like a racist.. when you use words like ''all white people''. and why do you hate successful people, who by the way arent all white...

me, i support the rule of law.. and the us constitution,. and not just the laws that suit me...and if i could live in an upper middle class neighborhood, i would, and so would you!

@getagrip -you obviously don't travel much. There are illegal immigrants in all the 48 contiguous states supporting the economies with low wage labor. Business owners are quick to hire them because they show up for work every day and don't file workman's comp claims when they break a finger nail, much like many legal Americans do. Throw them all out and you will be paying $20 a pound for peaches.

My point is simple. The reason most people are po'd about the MEXICAN or SOUTH AMERICAN, or ASIAN of any flavor ILLEGALS, is the failure of any of the aforementioned groups to shiv a git enough to LEARN the language, NOT expect every person to coddle them in their "native" tongue..

We speak AMERICAN here. My family had to learn it in the 19teens when they came here from all over Europe. Time for you as well. NO ENTIENDO

I agree with you on the fact that learning English should be expected if you wish to become a citizen of the US...Having the voting ballots written in Spanish should give everyone a clue as to what is going on here. I do have to correct you though, Don'tbesosure...There is no such thing as the American language; it is the English language that is the official language of the US (although there are those who think we should have 2...English and Spanish.