They don't need that (a picture) to prove he did it. Imagine if a witness, pic or video of a murder taking place was the only way to prove the murderer did it. How many murderers would get away with it? Evidence comes in many different forms and this guy may (or may not) have left behind enough to prove he did it, if in fact he did do it. That's why we have a court system.

Do you have some kind of point? What is it?

Seriously? A person lurking outside a burning building is either a lookout or an arsonist who enjoys watches his handiwork.... Or are you assuming he is just a good Samaritan who came there to see if he could lend some help?

so what was he doing there then? masterbating?

Seriously Randy (the suspect) - you are 52 years old and this is where your life has taken you? What a loser. Ugly and stupid - I guess he felt he had reached rock bottom...lol.

the number of anti-Muslim hate groups tripled between 2010 and 2011.

I remember when 52yo bald guys joined bowling leagues.

If this is the perp then I hope the judicial system throws the book at him. Why do we have to treat people of different faith systems as though they are from a different planet. Has xenophobia taken over this country? We seem to vilify all people of the same race, faith system or country over acts committed by a few. Why was the group Timothy McVeigh alienated like the Muslims have been? Or was the extreme right group McVeigh represented not vilified by society because they looked like mainstream America? We might talk the talk but we do not practice what we espouse as a society. In reality Americans are hypocrites.

I am not a Muslim so I do not have a dog in this fight except for the fact I am tired of white America acting in a xenophobic manner and ostracizing groups of people for the acts of a few while they overlook the acts committed against society when it is one of their own. Hypocrisy at its finest.

• How much time did this clown spend listen to Glenn Beck and similar hate mongers?

If he did it, there will undoubtedly be DNA and other evidence somewhere at the scene. The video is just the cursory evidence suggesting that he was in a place that suggests abnormal behavior.

so what was he doing there then? masterbating?

He probably was.

There is a Muslims organization in the US which has collected over ten thousand units of blood each year for the past few years to benefit Americans in need. Ten thousand units can potentially help save 30,000 lives, since one unit of blood can potentially save three. So if some "muslims" killed 3000 Americans on 9/11, there are Muslims who help save 30,000 or more Americans every year. you can see the campaign at www.muslimsforlife.org

I was told that this one Mosque where I live in NJ feeds 300 fellow Americans every month from their soup kitchen. They also invited me to a walkathon their youth was organizing called "Walk for Humanity http://www.walkforhumanityusa.org/ with a goal of raising money for charities like Humanity First, Why Hunger and Boys and Girls club.

They have been very active and open in the community since they established the mosque here 30 years ago. They do several inter faith activities every year, they have college classes over for lectures. This particular group of Muslims has over 70 mosques in the US and they do these works everywhere. They have been doing these things long before before 9/11, I have known this congregation since the last 15 years. Despite their efforts we never hear about these positive activities in the media, I guess its because this may not get the ratings these media outlets are looking for.

The burning of Mosques, the shootings at temples or any other hateful activity should not be tolerated at all.

Kiss ass much?

Straw man much?

Where in my comment did you read that I "tolerate them burning down out embassies and killing our Ambassadors over a cartoon" read much???

I completely condemn all hateful acts the cartoons and the riots, the film and the murders. However I wasn't addressing that, I was talking about my personal experiences with Americans who are Muslims which is the subject of this article "Mosques burned in America" .. why is it sooooo hard for morons like you to read without letting your madness takeover you???? But from your comments it is obvious you are perfectly ok with burning mosques in America, perhaps the authorities aught to keep an eye on you. Learn to read properly before you start showing the world how brilliant you are.

So why is he there but to set the fire?

However it is clearly obvious from your comment as to how well informed you are, as it turns out the attack on the embassy in Libya wasn't in response to the disgusting movie (not a cartoon) it was a pre-planed terrorist attack, which is none the less despicable. It is really misinformed bumbling "patriots" like yourself who out of sheer ignorance drag the good name of this nation down the gutter with yourself.

wire557

Were you beaten with "The Stupid Stick" as a child, or do you just spend a good part of each day running into doors and walls with your head? Is it too difficult for you to grasp that there actually isn't any "One Big Moos'lim Nation", that we have these unique things in the world called "countries", and that Muslims living in AMERICA are not "responsible for" or "guilty of" what somebody on the other side of the planet decides to do?

Wire557- You kind of come off sounding like a lunatic whack job. Your posts are completely thoughtless and lack any substance at all.

FromNJ has clear and concise posts that anyone with any reading comprehension would be able to discern as logical and thought out. You're just looking to pick a fight with someone without any real reason other than blind hatred. So, really who's kissing who's *ss here? Because it kind of sounds like you're kissing the *ss of the crazy people who believe in nothing more than hatred without substantial reasoning.

No, you're coming off sounding like an infantile child who wants to change everyone's mind but you can't and it angers you. You're making assumptions of people you've never met nor will you ever meet. You're making comments that have really no bearing on the conversation. You're upset and angry on the internet and for what? Because people disagree with you? That smacks of an immaturity that makes me feel embarrassed for you.

Obviously you do. You respond to everything everyone sends you, so just by the responses alone you care and a lot by how you do respond what others think of you.

Not to mention you upvote yourself every time.

All Muslims are to be blamed for the actions of muslims in any country, whether they are guilty or not, in the same way every last christian is to be blamed for the actions of Hitler, who invoked the name of the Christian god he was raised to believe in. In other words. all Christians from now until the end of time, on every part of the earth, are responsible for killing 6 million jews just as every single muslim is responsible for 9/11.

I mean, hey, that's the philosophy we are supposed to use, right??

"Pretty boy"? No, thanks. I'm not interested.

But it's good to know you feel you should personally take responsibility for the slaughter of 6 million Jews at the hands of your brethren.

These righteous Christians should take sole responsibility for the decimation of the indigenous people on this continent as well. Of course you know they will respond it was God's will for that to happen. They only take responsibility when it suits them.

Careful bonos, wire is a registered sex offender.

Now the Ohio DA is worried whether he has lost another Romney vote or not.

That is a good one, gridlock. If we have our way the entire group including Dewine and Kasich will be gone too.

I read this article twice. First before I got to these comments, then after reading your comment. I saw nowhere that they called this man an unemployed Indiana Hillbilly. I have no idea he even did it by reading the article. But I will say, in America, with the 1st amendment of the Constitution, no one should be doing this sort of thing. I myself am an atheist but I defend the right for anyone to worship to any "higher power" as they want as long as they aren't hurting anyone else or causing property damage to other peoples property.

ChicagoT

People from Indiana are generally called "Hoosiers".... and some like this man, criminals. To imply this man represents the residents of Indiana, is short-sighted, at best. Are we supposed to assume all people from Illinois are like you?

What more evidence do you people need? What kind of person especially a redneck looking hillbilly, would ever be step near a mosque? Does that guy look like a convert? You think he was waiting for his family?That SOB doesnt even work there what the heck would he be doing there?

I hope you, as a gangsta from Illinois, are not suggesting that everyone from Indiana is a hillbilly, although being born a Hoosier I would agree that there are a few.

A white stranger who looks like a member of the Michigan militia is hanging outside of a mosque when it's attacked and yet there are still those who defend this guy?!? Jesus Christ...what has happened to the people of this country?!? Would you same people who are saying "innocent until proven guilty" be saying the same thing if a baptist church was burned down while a middle easterner milled about outside of it? I think we all know the answer to that.

I'm 62, and I can tell you that Muslims don't "scare the crap" out of me. Extremists do. We have a lot more extremists in this country who are not Muslims than ones who are. I have known quite a few Muslims in my life. They are just ordinary people. I see a lot of posts on the internet by people who demonize them. Those people are the ones you need to fear.

Here comes the hate in 3-2-1...

Mohammed taught the muslims to struggle using non-violence and to only resort to violence in the defense of others, especially thoses incapable of defending themselves - The true chivalric code.

Even Gandhi gives credit to Mohammed's grandson for inspiring his beliefs in non-violence.

Those who abandon this chivalric code are not muslims. Rather, they have embraced pre-Islamic values. They are extremists who have elevated guerrilla warfare to the global level. This is a very natural progression in the evolution of human warfare.

God/Allah inspires us to be strong against evil.

In the words of the Quran "We are all from God and to God we will return"

"And truth arrived, ignorance was banished ... Lo, ignorance was destined to be banished!"

Michael, thank you.
I have a Muslim in my family and he certainly doesn't scare the heck out of me.

Most people only know what they see on tv and the Internet.
And the media never distorts the facts, does it???

Ron,

What we as human beings need to fear the most is the evil in our hearts.

It comes in many forms, and has many names:

Pride, hate, greed, lust/gluttony, insecurity, laziness etc.

They separate us from God.

Do not fall into the trap of those who spread the gospel of hate or fall prey to your own insecurity.

Strive to rid yourself of those evils.

Keep close to God through your prayers and constantly ask for protection from those evils.

Christianity is not a peaceful religion. If you think so, you flunked history.

History is loaded with acts committed by people who called themselves Christians but were anything but. Christian means Christ-like. Christ's Words in the Bible have nothing but peace in them, unlike the words of Muhammed.

Convenient. If someone who calls himself a Christian, who espouses Christianity, who worships in a Christian church, commits an atrocious act of violence, just declare that he is not a Christian. That makes it easy.

Christ's Words in the Bible have nothing but peace in them
Matthew 10:34 Do not think that I came to bring peace on Earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I came to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law; and a man's enemies will be the members of his household. He who loves father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me; and he who loves son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me. And he who does not take his cross and follow Me is not worthy of Me. He who has found his life will lose it, and he who has lost his life for My sake will find it

I rest my case

I think we should take a head count Manoah, let's allow a reasonable time frame, like perhaps, the past ten years.

Heads taken by Islam and heads taken by Christians and all other religious groups, should lend some support to your opinion that implies that Islam is not peaceful.

I don't know how much credence we should contribute to the Koran, the head count would be more verifiable.

Lets do it now. Christians: 100 million heads killed Muslims: 40 Million heads killed

Your right Head counts make much more sense. Why do you think the non-western world is frothing in the mouth and wanting blood, and every despot wanting nuclear weapons!

Micheal-3842950, if you have studied history like you say you have. It is a small group of people who pervert christianity religion to incite contention, and not the entire christian religion. Of course, your not intrested in that truth, your only interested using your perverted ideals of atheism to incite contention. And where do you read in the Bible calling the unbelievers Infidels, and must be put to death by Jihad? I wonder if all Atheists share your point of view that all religions especially Christians are evil doers. I would almost bet any money, most athiests do not exaust as much energy you do to contend with Christians, Buddists, Hindus or any other organized belief.... Seems to me, because of you lack of inner strength and your jealousy of others inner strenghts in their beleifs cause you to have animosity.

Satanick, you misrepresented that parable you recited from Matthew... Christ was talking about their traditions that were bieng forced onto the Family members that wanted to believe in the Redeemer of the world. Those same traditions were used to put to death an INNOCENT man, that cured and help people, and never hurt anyone. He only taught love, respect and tolerance for others, who are with sin, for no one is without sin. Eventhough he was found Innocent, he took up his cross to bear, and was put to death by false traditions!

"Christianity is not a peaceful religion."

No religion is peaceful all the time. We have violent, redial fundamentalist among Christian, Jews, Muslims, Seeks -- you name it. The real problem isn't religion -- it's the fundamentalism of a few religious people.

Rob- "It is a small group of people who pervert christianity religion to incite contention, and not the entire christian religion."

The same goes for the Muslim religion Rob.

Or any religion!

For 300 years American Christians defined Africans as only three-fifths human, they were forbidden from marriage, thus all was fornication, and yes many white masters adulterated with the 13 to 16 year old "whences". But, yes did not commit any sin, because as stated, they were only three-fifths human.

Now, for the life of these Confederates, one of these sub-humans, with Muslim roots to boot, is the President of the USA.

Angry Birds-Angry White Man-Angry at Big Bird!!!

The FACTS are that Muslims have every right to live in America, to believe in their religion, to peacefully practice their religion, to create and worship at houses of worship of their own choice and of their own building. And oh yeah -- you don;t have any "right" whatsoever to "stop" them. That's the facts.

Look how much our media will just focus on the poor mohammond loving peoples

That will be a nice change from the constant focus on the Jesus lovers.

So you're a lover of the Nation of Islam, that racist and antisemitic organization of thugs.

The so-called "Nation of Islam" is about as repesentative of the Muslim faith as the KKK are representative of the Evangelical Protestant Christian faith.

Ohhh wait, that's right, the KKK -IS- represnetative of the Evangelical Protestant Christian faith -- it's the year 2012 and yet substantial numbers of white Protestant Christians in the South -STILL- can't accept or abide the idea that a white Protestant Christian should actually have the legal right to love and marry a black Protestant Christian without being thrown in jail for it.

Seems to me that reading the news shows the Nation of Islam IS representative of the Muslim faith. Hatred of others is a worldwide Muslim fact of life.

rachel- Seems that reading comprehension is not your strong point. Where in my post did I say, imply, or even hint that I "love the Nation of Islam?" Not really the sharpest knife in the drawer, are you?

You were wishing that scumbag Louis Farrakhan and the NoI on this guy. They're your boys, ready to give you the satisfaction you'd deal out if you weren't impotent. He set fire to a building but YOU want him dead (though you probably don't believe in the death penalty for murderers and rapists!)

Ha, HA! I think your "knife" is the really dull one, Mikey!

rachel, your mind reading skills are pathetically bad. Dull people like you can take a little, project their own delusions into it, and fantasize a a whole scenario. You may not be very smart, but at least you have an active imagination.

Are you a member of:

The KKK?

The Aryan Brotherhood?

The American Nazi Party?

The Westboro Baptist Church?

If not, why not?

I am an American expressing freedom of speech. Obama for you?

Fellow Muslim, Steve. Fellow Muslim.

Michale are you a recruiter for the above angery groups? Thats not how I roll, I just stand for what is right!

So to you what is right is bigotry, intolerance and hatred. You certainly would feel right at home in those groups.

According to those with less than stellar reasoning skills, if someone defends a group of people, then it follows that s/he must be one themselves.
How moronic can you get?

Yes Steve -- because this is America, you have every right to say what you want to say. And you also have the right to make a total fool out of yourself and show the world what a hate filled moron you are. And you are doing an excellent job at both.

Crusades.

Inquisition.

Conquistadors.

Salem witch trials.

Northern Ireland.

Southern lynchings, from the 1970's to the 1960's.

Live in the past much Steve? EVERYDAY MUSLIMS KILL! Have been since the murderer Mohammed burst out of Mecca demanding respect by killing and raping and plundering.

Thats then what about now? Who is killing who?

200'000 dead in Iraq. Fairly recent.

Excellent example of ridiculous hypocrisy, rachel!!

Thats then what about now? Who is killing who?

"Christians" killing gays in Africa, maybe?

Christians are slaughtering their own AND others in Africa - the Lord's Resistance Army rapes, murders and beheads children and adults regularly.

See above.

Let's see: the Sikh temple shooting, the movie theater shooting, the Jewish synagogue shooting, etc.

Well, let's see how a bunch of innocent people in Iraq might view that...before we invaded that country for absolutely no reason, our President was asked if he talked with his father about what direction he should lead our country and he responded with - No, I talk to a higher power - insinuating that he was talking with God for advice. Well, it looks like God told him to invade Iraq if you look at it like that and since from what I know, God is a christian and George Bush is a christian, it can look to some as if Christianity was part of our invasion of an innocent country and the death of hundreds of thousands.

You're not very clever either. You also prove that bigotry and hatred is not confined to people affiliated with religion.

What! I do not hate, it is what it is! The proof is in the pudding, let the facts speak for them self!

I thought no more replies. So you are a liar, too?

Thank you! How true, thats the point, true dat! CaerRaven we need more like you.

Sure now blame the Atheists, instead.

In reality it could only be done by one religion. Its the religion of Extremism and Hate.

As far as Islam is concerned Jesus Christ - the Messiah was a muslim, as was Adam and Noah and Moses

and the 144,000 others sent to mankind to believe in God and Its message that good deeds matter.

Christianity is not the only religion to to adopt those people as their guides.

** It is only the message of extremism that states that through evil, good can be achieved. **

If he wasn't christian, the conservative media would have said so by now; don't you think?

Every religion has it's extremists from Christians, Muslims, Jews, Hindus etc... Every single one. Personally I'm agnostic but was raised Christian until I made my own decision to believe as I wished. There's hypocrisy everywhere and nobody will ever escape it, no matter how hard people try.

test

Another ignorant, intolerant rant from someone who does not believe in the US Constitution.

Probably unknown to many Americans is Shari's laws are already in effect in the US dealing with minor disputes, inheritance and domestic violence.

Probably unknown to you is the fact that your statement is complete false misleading and lying B.S. There are utterly no "Shari'a laws already in effect in the U.S. dealing with minor disputes, inheritance and domestic violence". They are not "laws" at all. They are religious mediation systems and they are not legally binding on anyone at all. The people who participate in them and seek their services, do so entirely voluntarily and willingly agree to be bound by the decisions rendered.

And oh yeah by the way, Jewish rabbinical courts have been doing exactly the same thing, principally in New York City, for well over 100 years. I don't see you bytching or whining about that fact, which merely further demonstrates your religiously-based hatreds and intolerance.

If you have a problem with Islam then there's a simple solution, DON'T CHOOSE TO BECOME A MUSLIM. Until then the plain and blunt fact of the matter is that Christianity is the most murderous religion the world has ever known, having given us the Holocaust, the Crusades, the Spanish Inquisition, the illegal and criminal invasion of Iraq and other crimes too numerous to list, not to mention generations' worth of Catholic pedophilia. Your hypocrisy is stunning.

As suspected Michael, you had no response other than tripe.

Phil, I won't do the research for you but you are wrong. On second thought, here's a clue. CAIR. (As another little clue for you, Mast, a House Representive did a little thing you haven't called research. Her research showed more than 50 cases around the United States where courts or government agencies took laws from Sharia or other legal systems into account in decision-making.) Now you have a base to start from.

Last I knew, the rabbinical courts in NYC don't go around passing sentences of death so what does that have to do with Shari'a law which does? And Christianity? As stated it's had it's moments...in the past. There don't seem to be a whole lot of Christians out there cutting off heads or blowing up innocent people using children to carry the bombs. The Holocaust? Christians? Really? Thought that was perpetrated by Nazi Germans not Christians but maybe I'm not as educated in history as you. Using a pure definition, Catholicism is a cult so has nothing to do with Christianity but nice try.

I have this silly little problem with people who accept what they've been told without doing any research on a subject. You both seem to fit that bill. So I guess the only problem I have isn't with Islam but with idiots who parrot with no knowledge.

In fact the Canadian government made a proposal to institute Sharia law for the muslims in Canada. The muslims in Canada rejected it as there was too much disagreement on what would correct law. Unfortunately, Islamic law currently is in shambles.

Orlando, your points about the later passages over-riding earlier writings and taqiyya are totally correct. The religion does instruct it followers to lie to the non-believers to advance and to pay attention to the later writings if there is a conflict with the earlier writings. That in and of itself means one should always be leery and paying attention.

As for the discussion of the courts - the issue isn't, the Rabbinical courts don't pass down sentences of death, cause in the USA, neither could the any Shari'a court...the issue should be, why should any religious institutionalized court, be it Rabbinical or Shari'a, be allowed to dictate in America because someone would like their religious law to dictate anything - that is not the way of our Republic, and the fore-fathers of our country fought to their deaths (in some cases) to make sure no religion dictated law in our country.

As for Christians not killing, it's all in your view - our ex-President said he talked to God before deciding to invade Iraq, which means that Iraqis (and others) could view this as some sort of religious crusade. Of course, if you choose not to see it like that, it's your choice, but you have to realize that some in other places could choose to see it like that - I mean, God told have told President Bush (while he was 'talking' to Him) - hey, love your neighbor, turn the other cheek, war is not the answer, peace (hell, any one of those peaceful views) - but must have instead instructed him to invade an innocent country that did nothing to us.

Orlando, you do know that Hitler frequently said he was christian in his speeches, used the christian god to justify his actions, copied his anti-Semetic laws from Martin Luther (founder of one of the major branches of christianity), banned non-christian organizations from Germany in 1933, instituted mandatory chrisitan school prayer later that year, and required all members of the SS to swear an oath to the christian god. So why do you doubt the Holocost was christian in nature?

Sharia law? Give ONE example of an ACTUAL legal case where Sharia law was used to supersede US law. It can't happen. Judges cannot ignore any law on the books.

If you are worried about US lawmakers creating laws inspired by Sharia, again there is no worry, as we have this little document called the US Constitution.

Orlando45

As suspected Michael, you had no response other than tripe.

As I suspected, you had no response other than mindlessly repeating and reciting lies.

Phil, I won't do the research for you but you are wrong.

You could have stopped after saying "I won't do the research". Because you obviously haven't done any. You don't have the slightest clue what you are talking about, which is why you repeat and recite other peoples' lies.

On second thought, here's a clue. CAIR.

Except that it isn't a "clue" at all. It's a lobbying organization, no different from the American Jewish Committee.

Mast, a House Representive did a little thing you haven't called research. Her research showed more than 50 cases around the United States where courts or government agencies took laws from Sharia or other legal systems into account in decision-making.) Now you have a base to start from.

Except that you apparently can't even name the so-called "representative".

Nor can you provide any "evidence" of where any "courts or government agencies took laws from Sharia or other legal systems into account in decision-making". Nor can you even provide the slightest rationale for why courts or government agencies taking laws from other legal systems into account in decision-making would in any way, shape or form be "A Bad Thing".

Obviously you are too clueless to understand this fact but gee NO, the United States is actually NOT an isolated little "bubble" in the world, totally separate and distinct from other countries' laws. Admiralty law and salvage law are perfect examples of this. Courts around the woprld routinely cite each others' rulings all the time.

Last I knew, the rabbinical courts in NYC don't go around passing sentences of death so what does that have to do with Shari'a law which does?

Last time I knew, shari'a courts in the United States don''t go around passing sentences of death, so why don't you PROVE that they supposedly "do" or else sit down, shut the eff up and stop telling lies?

Can you provide the slightest evidence of even one such "death sentence" being handed down by anyone in THE UNITED STATES?

Because that's what we are talking about here, Muslims IN THE UNITED STATES. Doesn't matter worth sh_— what Muslims do somewhere else in thw world, we're not talking about them. Muslims IN AMERICA are not the slightest bit "responsible for" what some whackjob decides to do on the other side of the planet.

The Holocaust? Christians? Really? Thought that was perpetrated by Nazi Germans not Christians but maybe I'm not as educated in history as you.

That's correct, you are not as educated in History as me. The Nazi Germans were Christians, with a long history of hatred of Jews.

Where did you get the very bizarre and wrong idea that being "Nazis" and being "Christians" were somehow "mutually exclusive" to eaah other? Pretty much all of the Jew-haters in the United States consider themselves to be Christian, especially the so-called "Christian Identity" movement, who have cleverly decided that they - and they alone - know what makes someone "white" and that Jews "cannot be classed as 'white' ".

I have this silly little problem with people who accept what they've been told without doing any research on a subject.

You actually have a lot of silly little problems, some of which apparently are pretty serious, such as innate racism and Islamophobia.

Personally, I have a problem with imbeciles who mindlessly and breathlessly repeat other peoples' lies without even having a clue of whether what they're saying is truth or lies, and who then completely refuse to do the slightest bit of research ("Phil, I'm not going to do the research"). That pretty much describes you perfectly.

Not doing the research means I'm not doing it for you. I suspect even if handed proof on a silver plater you'd deny it. Probably because you're a muzzie practicing Taqiyya or a muzzie lover. I provided you with two clues on how to search for evidence, the second being the name Mast but you don't seem to be able to put two and two together so I'll give you her full name. Peggy Mast. Think you can take it from there?

Let's try something else that will show you how much power Islam has in the US (again, this will require you actually do something other than post things you have no clue on). Go to YouTube and type in Muslim and Detroit. Watch a few videos, see what's been going on there, then expand your search and knowledge by actually doing some research.

I never said that beheadings have been done in the US. Honor killings? Yes. The point is that Muslims, true Muslims, follow the instructions given in the Quar'an and that means attempting to place every country under Shari'a law as ordered. Any headway made into a country is just one more step in that process - no matter what you think.

As usual, you are incorrect concerning the Nazi party and Christianity. While true they claimed to be Christian, as you said, you seem to have missed the bit where the Nazi party had plans to destroy Christianity. Cornell University relased documents from the Nuremberg Trials showing this. I think they were released in 1997 or 1998. So maybe your knowledge of history isn't what you think it is.

I've changed my mind. Seems you, like others, are either too lazy or too stupid to look for facts. That decided, here's a report you may want to read. I'll warn you it's long and very detailed so prepare for that.

Because I'm not able to post the actual link I'll leave it to you to remove the spaces.

http : / / www . documentcloud . org / documents / 228663 - sharia - law - and - american - state -courts . html

Think you folks can take it from there? After reading the report I'd enjoy seeing you try to prove it wrong.

As usual, you are incorrect concerning the Nazi party and Christianity. While true they claimed to be Christian, as you said, you seem to have missed the bit where the Nazi party had plans to destroy Christianity. Cornell University relased documents from the Nuremberg Trials showing this. I think they were released in 1997 or 1998. So maybe your knowledge of history isn't what you think it is.

Actually, my knowledge of history is exactly what I think it is, and your so-called "knowledge" of hisory is also exactly what I think it is.

You seem to be rather mentally confused, since it very clearly and obviosuly does not matter worth a bucket of cat spit whether the Nazi party supposedly "had plans to destroy Christianity" (and perhaps you would like to explain how a Nazi government can supposedly "destroy" a religion of hundreds of millions of followers around the world?).

The Nazis never did attempt to "destroy Christianity", either. Rather, they quite simply and easily co-opted it, which was quite simple and easy for them to do since antisemitic tendencies were long-established in Europe and flowed in plentiful supply from European Christianity at the time.

We were discussing the very intimate and cozy interrelated history of the Nazis and Christian-based antisemitism in Germany. The Nazis were Christians, a fact which even you would seemingly have been too intelligent to ever try to deny, but then there's apparentlly no accounting for stupidity or laziness, is there?

Here is what the U.S. Holocaust Memorial Museum has to say on the subject. Unless you work there, supervise them or possess some qualification which they do not (and which you'd be happy to publicly provide and prove), I'd say that they know what they are talking about, while you very clearly do not.

Here you go:

The German Churches and the Nazi State

The population of Germany in 1933 was around 60 million. Almost all Germans were Christian, belonging either to the Roman Catholic (ca. 20 million members) or the Protestant (ca. 40 million members) churches. The Jewish community in Germany in 1933 was less than 1% of the total population of the country.

How did Christians and their churches in Germany respond to the Nazi regime and its laws, particularly to the persecution of the Jews? The racialized anti-Jewish Nazi ideology converged with antisemitism that was historically widespread throughout Europe at the time and had deep roots in Christian history. For all too many Christians, traditional interpretations of religious scriptures seemed to support these prejudices.

The attitudes and actions of German Catholics and Protestants during the Nazi era were shaped not only by their religious beliefs, but by other factors as well, including:

•Backlash against the Weimar Republic and the political, economic, and social changes in Germany that occurred during the 1920s

•Anti-Communism

•Nationalism

•Resentment toward the international community in the wake of World War I, which Germany lost and for which it was forced to pay heavy reparations

These were some of the reasons why most Christians in Germany welcomed the rise of Nazism in 1933. They were also persuaded by the statement on “positive Christianity” in Article 24 of the 1920 Nazi Party Platform, which read:

"We demand the freedom of all religious confessions in the state, insofar as they do not jeopardize the state's existence or conflict with the manners and moral sentiments of the Germanic race. The Party as such upholds the point of view of a positive Christianity without tying itself confessionally to any one confession. It combats the Jewish-materialistic spirit at home and abroad and is convinced that a permanent recovery of our people can only be achieved from within on the basis of the common good before individual good."

Despite the open antisemitism of this statement and its linkage between confessional "freedom" and a nationalistic, racialized understanding of morality, many Christians in Germany at the time read this as an affirmation of Christian values.

PROTESTANT CHURCHES IN NAZI GERMANY

The largest Protestant church in Germany in the 1930s was the German Evangelical Church, comprised of 28 regional churches or Landeskirchen that included the three major theological traditions that had emerged from the Reformation: Lutheran, Reformed, and United. Most of Germany's 40 million Protestants were members of this church, although there were smaller so-called "free" Protestant churches, such as Methodist and Baptist churches.

Historically the German Evangelical Church viewed itself as one of the pillars of German culture and society, with a theologically grounded tradition of loyalty to the state. During the 1920s, a movement emerged within the German Evangelical Church called the Deutsche Christen, or "German Christians." The "German Christians" embraced many of the nationalistic and racial aspects of Nazi ideology. Once the Nazis came to power, this group sought the creation of a national "Reich Church" and supported a "nazified" version of Christianity.

. . . . . . . . .

The general tactic by the leadership of both Protestant and Catholic churches in Germany was caution with respect to protest and compromise with the Nazi state leadership where possible. There was criticism within both churches of Nazi racialized ideology and notions of "Aryanism," and movements emerged in both churches to defend church members who were considered "non-Aryan" under Nazi racial laws (e.g., Jews who had converted). Yet throughout this period there was virtually no public opposition to antisemitism or any readiness by church leaders to publicly oppose the regime on the issues of antisemitism and state-sanctioned violence against the Jews.

After 1945, the silence of the church leadership and the widespread complicity of "ordinary Christians" compelled leaders of both churches to address issues of guilt and complicity during the Holocaust—a process that continues internationally to this day.

h t t p://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/article.php?ModuleId=10005206

Sigh. Seems you just can't follow simple directions to find things. Try this

http : // library2 . lawschool . cornell . edu / donovan / pdf / Nuremberg_3 / Vol_X_18_02 . pdf

this just in case the link won't post.

Orlando, what is a fact of the Nazi regime is that they followed the Holocaust that happened on this continent as their guide and justification for eliminating the undesirables in Germany. I studied at the MPI and it is well known in Germany who's model they followed as our own leaders and historical scholars also know this fact. IBM and GM assisted Germany in keeping track of those who were eliminated during Hitler's years. Do some real research by dropping by a Federal Repository and looking at and reading the original papers written by the leaders of this country along with other countries and you shall see the facts right in front of you.

We have a Federal Repository at U of Tulsa that was our history book instead of those written by some scholar who was biased in their interpretations of what went on during our history. With that your generalization of being idiots or too stupid to do research fails miserably. It seems you are not as smart and intellectually gifted as you seem to claim. Get over yourself and the sooner the better.

So you studied at the Migration Policy Institute. Whoopie. Because it's a think tank you're an intellect? I don't think so. Sounds to me it's more of an ego boost you probably need.

What the US did during that time is not part of the discussion. Why you drag that into it is beyond me. To help you, the discussion concerned Islam and some of it's core beliefs. Nazis and Christianity came into it as part of the discussion. You now are attempting to take dialog further away from the main issue. Sorry, but I will not be following. Should you find an article where this would be relevant I'll be glad to join you there. Until then please follow your own advise and get over what ever it is you think you are.

Orlando45

Not doing the research means I'm not doing it for you. I suspect even if handed proof on a silver plater you'd deny it. Probably because you're a muzzie practicing Taqiyya or a muzzie lover.

The classic desperation of a coward - "You stand up for the rights of the poor and African-Americans, you MUST be poor and black and on welfare yourself, because NO REAL, WHITE AMERICAN would EVER do that", "you are against racial profiling of Hispanics, it MUST be because you're an 'illegal immigrant' yourself, because NO REAL, WHITE AMERICAN would EVER do that", "you stand up against demonizing of Muslims, you MUST be a 'muzzie' yourself, because NO REAL, WHITE CHRISTIAN AMERICAN would EVER do that". The classic attempt to smear and characterize as 'the enemy' anyone who devastates your insane racist Islamophobic remarks with facts.

I provided you with two clues on how to search for evidence, the second being the name Mast but you don't seem to be able to put two and two together so I'll give you her full name. Peggy Mast. Think you can take it from there?

I've changed my mind. Seems you, like others, are either too lazy or too stupid to look for facts.

Oh dear, perhaps you need to go back on your meds. You seem to be operating under the delusional idea that it is 'my' responsibility to validate 'your' claims. It isn't. 'You' are not 'my' 'professor', 'I' am not 'your' 'research assistant' and it is not 'my' job to 'prove' or validate YOUR false, lying or misleading claims.

Someone needs to sit you down and patiently explain to you that in a debate, if you want anyone to believe your claims, you need to be able to supply proof and facts, such as links to sources.

If you can't prove your allegations then that is what we refer to as being "just tough sh## for YOU".

Orlando45

Sigh. Seems you just can't follow simple directions to find things. Try this

Sigh. Seems you just can't follow simple directions to find things. Try this:

h t t p://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/article.php?ModuleId=10005206

Orlando45

Whoopie. Because it's a think tank you're an intellect?

No, he's an intellect because unlike you, he can string words together into coherent sentences and follow the general direction of the thread rather than leading it down a hate-filled dirt-road blind alley into an Islamophobic cul-de-sac.

What the US did during that time is not part of the discussion. Why you drag that into it is beyond me.

What Muslims choose to do in other parts of the world OUTSIDE OF AMERICA is not part of the discussion. Why you drag that into it is obvious, you are a hate-filled paranoid delusional Islamophobe who is too clueless to understand that there is no "overarching One Big Moos-lim Nation" or "One Core Set Of Mooslim Beliefs". I realize that this must come as a huge shock to you but in the world today we have these things called "countries", with, like, different people in them. And what people in "one" country believe, can be entirely different from what people in "another" country believe. And what Muslims in one country believe, can be completely totally and utterly different from what Muslims in another country believe. Shocking, I know, but true.

The perfect illustration of this is that people in France were predominantly Christian, and people in Germany were predominantly Christian as well, but the fact that they were both Christian did not mean that they believed in the same thing, nor did it stop them from fighting two devastating world wars against each other or trying to slaughter each other by the millions.

Similarly, people in Iraq are Muslims, and people in Iran are Muslims, but the fact that they were both Muslim did not mean that they believed in the same thing, nor did it stop them from spending eight full years in the 1980s engaged in trying to slaughter each other.

To help you, the discussion concerned Islam and some of it's core beliefs.

No, it didn't. That was your blatant attempt to "smear" and condemn all Muslims worldwide, including Muslims IN AMERICA who as a group have been remarkably peaceful and law-abiding, because of the actions of a few radicals, almost all of whom are OUTSIDE OF America.

News flash, you actually don't get to "decide" what "ALL Muslims Believe". They do. You get to sit down, shut up and hopefully learn something for a change. You also don't get to "tell" me "you MUST be a muzzie lover". I get to tell you what I am, and you get to sit down, shut the eff up and accept that unless you can prove otherwise.

To help you, the discussion concerned Islam and some of it's core beliefs.

No, it concerned Muslims IN AMERICA. Nowhere else - JUST in AMERICA. And again, you don't get to "tell" Muslims what their core beliefs are. They get to tell YOU.

No, Orlando, I studied at the Max Plank Institute for Atmospheric Science. Would you care to apply for acceptance to MPI? I thought not. Now move on to a subject matter you might understand in lay terms.

Seems you can't separate Islamic core beliefs from outside the US and inside the US. Know why? Because you can't. It's the same no matter what country. That's the reason I point these things out. It doesn't matter that at the moment in the US they are "remarkably peaceful and law-abiding" when that core belief states, no matter what country they are in, they are to work toward bringing their laws to all countries. Just open your eyes and look around at what's happening in the US. You can't be that blind.

I'm not telling Muslims what their core beliefs are and they don't have to tell me. They know and I know and guess what. It's the same thing. Your last sentence is exactly why I point out the dangers of Islam. "They get to tell YOU".

Amazing how people throw out terms like hate-filled and Islamaphobic when they can't come up with intelligent discourse. In doing so you are doing exactly what you claim I'm doing. Nice reasoning.

Intellect - Just how much intelligence does it take to spell the name of the institute you supposedly attended correctly? Not much it seems. I'll help. It's the Max PLANCK Institute. I've never thought so highly of myself to claim the status of intellect but I am able to correctly spell the names of the three universities I've graduated from in my lifetime.

Actually, since (yet AGAIN) no, you actually don't get to "decide" what Muslims' so-called "core beliefs" are, you actually CAN differentiate between the beluefs of one group of Muslims versus those of another group of Muslims.

For instance, the core beliefs of Shi'ite Muslims are that contrary to and in contrast to other types of Muslims, the Shia believe that only God has the right to choose a representative to safeguard Islam, the Quran and sharia. Thus the Shias look to Ali, Muhammad's son-in-law, whom they consider divinely appointed, as the rightful successor to Muhammad, and the first imam. The Shia extend this belief to Muhammad's family, the Ahl al-Bayt ("the People of the House"), and certain individuals among his descendants, known as imams, who have special spiritual and political authority over the community.

This is a huge difference between the Sh'ia and Sunni branches of Islam, and it is one reason why Sunnis (who make up the majority of the world's Muslims) generally regard Shi'ia Muslims as heretics. It is also one reason why there is deep distrust between the Sunni Muslim nations of the world (especially those in the Middle East and Persian Gulf, particularly Saudi Arabia, Qatar, the United Arab Emirates, and also those in Southeast Asia such as Pakistan) and Shi'ite Muslims, particularly those in Iran and Lebanon.

There is an even more huge difference between Sunni / Shi'ite Muslims, and Sufi Muslims. Sufism is a mystical-ascetic form of Islam. By focusing on the more spiritual aspects of religion, Sufis strive to obtain direct experience of God by making use of "intuitive and emotional faculties" that one must be trained to use.^[31] Tasawwuf is regarded as a science of Islam that has always been an integral part of Orthodox Islam. But the tasawwuf of the Sufis is different insofar as it has historically been accused of innovation by orthodox scholars throughout the ages.

Sufis are not a homogeneous group and many of the key figures in Sufism have historically been known to not have engaged remotely in the modern day witnessed practices carried out by people who ascribe to the label of being 'Sufi'. Many of the 'saints' known in Sufism are highly regarded in orthodox Islam as being individuals who were the epitome of the 'whole' teachings of Islam and are far removed from deviant groups and sub-sects who ascribe to the title of Sufism who are now known in the modern-age to engage esoteric philosophy and strange new innovated practices not known to the early Muslims of Syria, Baghdad, and Hijaz where many of the 'Sufi saints' are known to have originated from, such as Abdul-Qadir Gilani.

To make matters even more colorful, contrary to the lying ignorant propaganda of idiotic Americans, not all Muslims are Arabs (far from it) and not all Arabs are Muslim.

Iranians, for instance, are not "Arab" at all - they are Persians. They have nothing in common with Arabs, whom they generally distrust and sometimes detest.

Pakistanis are generally Sunni Muslims, but they are not Arabs, either. They are South Asians. And they don't speak Arabic, either.

Indonesians are predominantly Muslim, but they can also be Christian. And they are not Arabs and they don't speak Arabic, either. Indonesia is also a democracy, with free elections and multiple political parties.

So, for that matter, is Turkey. And it not "Arab", either - it is Eurasian. Turkey is a democratic, secular, unitary, constitutional republic with a diverse cultural heritage. Turkey has become increasingly integrated with the West through membership in organisations such as the Council of Europe, NATO, OECD, OSCE and the G-20 major economies. Turkey began full membership negotiations with the European Union in 2005, having been an associate member of the European Economic Community since 1963 and having joined the EU Customs Union in 1995. Turkey has also fostered close cultural, political, economic and industrial relations with the Middle East, the Turkic states of Central Asia and the African countries through membership in organisations such as the Turkic Council, Joint Administration of Turkic Arts and Culture, Organisation of Islamic Cooperation and the Economic Cooperation Organisation.

Turkey is a secular state with no official state religion; the Turkish Constitution provides for freedom of religion and conscience. Islam is the dominant religion of Turkey, it exceeds 99% if secular people of Muslim background are included. Research firms suggest the actual Muslim figure is around 98%^[133] or 97%.

There are about 120,000 people of different Christian denominations, including an estimated 80,000 Oriental Orthodox, 35,000 Roman Catholics, 5,000 Greek Orthodox^] and smaller numbers of Protestants. Today there are 236 churches open for worship in Turkey. The Eastern Orthodox Church has been headquartered in Istanbul since the 4th century. Christians represent less than 0.2% of Turkey's population, according to the CIA World Factbook.

There are about 26,000 people who are Jewish, the vast majority of whom are Sephardi.

The Bahá'í Faith in Turkey has roots in Bahá'u'lláh's, the founder of the Bahá'í Faith, being exiled to Constantinople, current-day Istanbul, by the Ottoman authorities. Bahá'ís cannot register with the government officially but there are probably 10 to 20 thousand Bahá'ís, and around a hundred Bahá'í Local Spiritual Assemblies in Turkey.

Turkey was founded upon a strict secular constitution which forbids the influence of any religion, including Islam. There are sensitive issues, such as the fact that the wearing of the Hijab is banned in universities and public or government buildings as some view it as a symbol of Islam, though there have been efforts to lift the ban.

All of this overwhelming evidence clearly dmeonstrates that contrary to your ignorant, uninformed, hate-filled lies, Islam is not at all monolithic and there is no "Islamic set of core beliefs" threatening anyone, anywhere.

Again, if you had the faintest clue of what you were talking about, you might have known some of these facts - but you didn't, and you don't.

There are people in the United States who are Muslims. Some of them were originally immigrants to the United States. Many were not immigrants at all, they are born-and-raised-in-America people who converted to Islam at some point in their life. They are American citizens, which means they have every right to be here and you do not have the slightest "right" whatsoever to deport them to anywhere because they are born-in-the-USA citizens. They do not "just have to" "go back to" anywhere, they are from here.

All of them will be staying right here whether you like it or not. You will just have to get over that and take your whining and "da Big Bad Moos-lim gonna getcha" paranoia elsewhere. If you have a "problem" with that then that is really just tough sh** for you, and you're not going to "do" anything at all about it. And you know it, too.

The United States is not a "Christian" country, it is not a "Jude-Christian" country, it has no official religion whatsoever and anyone in this country is free to believe or disbelieve in any God or deity that they damn well please and you can't "do" sh** about that fact, so stick that in your pipe and smoke it.

Actually, Orlando, in Germany it is spelled "Plank."

First, why is it that people with weak arguments always turn to name calling and vulgarities? Do you honestly think that process will work to change someones mind? As an add on to this, where did I ever state the Muslims in the US should be deported? I think you're reading something into my post that isn't there. Are you sure you are replying to the correct one?

Second. I started to read your post and soon realized where you were heading with it. The reading turned to scanning and there it was. Shi'ite Muslims soon followed by Turkey and Indonesia. Do you listen to world news? Use the Internet to gather information on what is happening in other countries? To me it seems the answer is no. Try looking up Muslim violence in Turkey, Indonesia, etc. The things that are happening in those countries should point out the errors in your post.

Another thing I would like to point out is the terminology I've used. I think the phrase "true" Muslim is confusing you. By that I am referring to the hard line Muslims. Those that demand the heads of people who have in their eyes blasphemed Allah, the Qur'an and Islam. Drawing a cartoon of Mohammad is reason for death? I think not.

Realy Intellect? That's funny cause I live in Switzerland and when I go to Berlin I see it as Die Max-Planck-Gesellschaft zur Förderung der Wissenschaften. The Verwaltungssitz in München. Looks like Planck to me.

I was in Hamburg for three months/year on two year stints by invitation to complete my work on atomospheric remote sensing.

I've not been to Hamburg so I'll take your word on that.

Uh no, that would just be you. "They" are people just like you and me. The only difference is they do not like the USA. Why is that wrong? Are they not entitled to their own opinions?

Plenty of people all over the world hate you, burn your flag, etc. Millions of those people are in Europe. And they are not "Muslim", either. They despise your rapacious predatory capitalism which is trying to take over and conquer the world. They despise your glorification of conservative lies, your hatred of the rights of women to control their own bodies, your hatred of the poor, your glorification of violence, your predilection for starting illegal wars of conquest such as in Iraq.

News flash, you are the Problem Child of the freaking planet. The rest of the world DOES NOT "need U.S. leadership", what they NEED is for you to stay within your own borders, mind your own freaking business, LEAVE OTHER PEOPLE AND OTHER COUNTRIES ALONE and STOP INTERFERING IN OTHER COUNTRIES' INTERNAL AFFAIRS. Stop assuming that the rest of the planet wants to be "just like America". THEY DON'T, so DEAL WITH that.

Hear hear!!

Dammit Phil, stop being smart, it confuses a lot of people.

Well Phil; I am an American, and unfortunately I would have to agree with you. My Country is being destroyed from within; not from any external perceived threat's. A more proper name for the Pentagon would be the US Department of War. Blatant Imperialism. Greed, Ignorance, Bigotry and blind Patriotism is not something the rest of the Civilized World is craving for.

I have yet to see my next door neighbors who are Muslim burn anything other than the occasional dinner. Haven't seen them kill anything though their dog did die when one of our other neighbors poisoned it and then scribbled racial slurs on their house. Their 8 year old daughter was hysterical and devastated when she came out and found their dog dead. It was pretty heart breaking hearing a kid screaming and her parents having a hell of a time explaining to her that someone killed the dog out of pure hatred.

How's that hate working out for you, Bearwolf?

Look at these posts and what we are DOING to each other with all THIS HATE. STOP IT already. It is sick!!!!

Both excellent posts, teresa!

Your behaviour and anger makes you no less "the animals" you claim your enemy to be Steve and the actions carried out in our country are shameful and deserve no respect of civil Americans who want peace nor will peace ever be achieved through force or violent REACTION.
Burning another person's house of worship is no answer for what you suscribe as "opinion" as it is hate-period. Wallow in it. I will NOT accept it. Sorry but your hatred is what it is-HATRED and it is a disease spreading like a cancer throughout America. You say you "pray they will open their eyes and realize not everyone wants or will be like THEM".
I do not pray for my atheism does not recognize false deities to "pray to" and I for one am glad for this for your entire statement is so flawed I don't know where to start. I do suggest you seek professional help as do all of your violent kind that want the "animals you despise to be so like YOU" when you are no different then they except in the color of your skin and what you call your 'god". Hope you find a good therapist and calm the rage within you someday as well to others. Only then will these senseless wars EVER END. Peace out man and good night. My girls have school tomorrow and I have a long day ahead of me as well. I need some REST.

Steve-3662533:

And just who did all the above acts? It wasn't the people who attended the torched Ohio Islamic center, that's for sure.

What is NOT acceptable is to denigrate an entire group of people due to the actions of a few.

You are entitled to your own opinion as they are! However, when you illegally and criminally invade other countries and kill thousands and thousands of innocent civilian people as you did in Iraq, THAT is not acceptable! You have a lot of hate and anger toward a world that refuses to be "just like America" and that needs to stop! You want to be respected, then give them something to respect you for. Acting like murderous lying conquerors DOES NOT earn respect. I just pray you will open your eyes and realize not everyone wants or will be like you and accept that!!!

Ok Bearwolf, start pouring whiskey on your hand, your "date for tonite" is lonely!