Why does he want validation from an organization like this?

Leave the Organization. Why would you want to have any kind of an award from an organization that supports bigotry and intolerance.

As for BOA.. wake up... this isn't 1920 anymore, its 2012.

So Stop the whining and form the gay scouts.

Support them but stop trying to get the boyscouts to change

The scouts hate gays publicly but protect pedophiles. Why would anyone let their kid be in the Boy Scouts? Almost as dangerous as leaving your kid alone with a priest!

It's a private organization. It's not a new rule. His father knew it. He knew it. BSA does not keep it a secret.

DaveM-877764,

Great idea to start their own organization, the gay scouts. Too bad all the whiners want to force others to hold their beliefs. Gee, where have we seen that before?

I'm sorry, did he not know the rules?

Justin, You mention the next step is banning non-Christians. Currently, they do not allow atheists.

They stand for obeying rules!

Great Example BSA! Building a wall of intolerance around the scout who has been in your organization since the age of 6, met every requirement for BSA's highest honor and knows EXACTLY what intolerance is from his own peers and the people he looked up to after participating in building the tolerance wall" for victims of bullying. Great organization fella's. I guess it's ok to hide and make excuses for the pedophiles in your organization for years. Boy Scouts of America - what a proud moment for you hypocrites.

They hate no one. They simply do not want perverts in the organization. It is their right to do so. "Everything" is not ok just because YOU do not like it.

Don't like the Scouts? Don't join.

BSA has turned into a joke.

Way to go Boy Scouts of America! Teach kids intolerance and hate. What a stand up organization! Don't bother coming to my door to sell me any cookies!

I'm suggesting new merit badges for the 21st century Boyscouts:

Gaybashing

Homophobia

Queerbaiting

Knuckledragging

Surely the scout isn't an idiot and knew the Boy Scouts position on this issue. If he really wanted the Eagle rank why didn't he just wait to announce his orientation? Given the nature of his project I assume it wasn't the rank he cared about but the publicity he knew he get from the rejection, which now he has.

And yes Justin B atheists need not apply. Denounce God and you'll get the boot. No eagle for you!

I think it stinks the kid doesn't get his award, but how did they know he was gay?!?

Gee, I'm just amazed, now We all have to choose whom We will associate with and ask our selves is that person GAY?, looking at these types of blogs shows that there are some serious issues with America I don't care about Religion let alone sexual orientations when I meet people but I've never judged people either.

Boy Scouts don't sell cookies.

tag-2907728

Denying the boy his due isn't tolerance .

If you read my post carefully, which I suspect you do not do as a general rule, you would have seen that I quoted Justin B to indicate that I was responding to his comment. I took no position (for or against) regarding denying the boy Eagle Scout rank.

I suppose you are one of the trolls who get offended when people say you are a bigot, Bill. You are. Embrace that.

Ahhh, name-calling. The mark of a thoughtful and well-reasoned argument. I am not a bigot .... I hate everyone equally. That you call me one might offend me, if I valued your opinion.

When will Corporations realize that we want them Neutral on ALL matters. The only thing I need to hear from a company is that your product is either better, or cheaper.

I feel really bad for this kid, but he knew the rules of the organization and he obviously told them that he was gay; otherwise the Scout Master and the BSA would not have known if he was gay or not. Maybe his mother put him up to speaking out, just to make a political point, otherwise they wouldn't have known he was gay. Regardless, he told them, they knew, and it was against their principles, rules and guidelines. Now his mother wants to complain..., and it is symptomatic of our "victimized" society; boo who, poor me, I've been repressed. Give me a break, and take responsibility for yourself and your own actions; maybe start a new organization for gay scouts, and stop wallowing in your own pity and visiting with lawyers.

Yea, heaven forbid he came out because honesty is a trait that he admires along with being loyal, trustworthy, etc., etc. (see above).

By the same token, if he couldn't "just shut up and play straight for three months," why couldn't the boy Scouts? Make him an Eagle scout, then pull their stupid rules and kick him out. But the kid has been working towards this since he was SIX. He isn't your "typical" morbidly-obese, lazy American kid, beating up on people, selling dope... let him have that one thing that he's been working towards all these years!

The cookie comment was a joke people! Good Lord!

It sounds to me from the article like the scoutmaster was willing to look the other way on this kid being gay since it says that he knew. Then this kid apparently decided he was going to make his being gay an issue by openly "coming out." The kid did this knowing full well what the BSA policy was towards gays. I do not know if it was the kid's idea to come out or if his parents influenced this decision. In any case, by coming out he intentionally backed the scoutmaster into a corner. The scoutmaster was left with the choice of either violating BSA policy and risking his own position as scoutmaster or refusing to sign off on the kid's award. I get the feeling that the kid coming out at this time was a very deliberate political move that was designed to try and make the BSA look bad by denying the award he had completed all of the requirements for. The timing of his coming out is just too convenient to think it was anything else. There is not much time between completing the requirements and getting the award, so his coming out at this particular time seems very contrived and deliberate. Like it or not, the BSA is a private organization and is entitled to their policies. This kid in now not going to get the award he worked so hard for because it appears he tried to make a political statement and it cost him. I think that was extremely deliberate and I refuse to feel sorry for this kid. He appears to have deliberately set out to challenge the BSAs rules, possibly with the urging of his parents, and he lost. He has no one to blame for that but himself. Like it or not, he knew the policies and now has to live with the results of his actions.

Rules are important. The BSA has rules. The KKK has rules. I have a rule. Don't join either one.

Really....they don't stand for anything! The're standing up for what they believe in! Do you people not understand that living this lifestyle is WRONG! How can you force your beliefs on others, when you don't allow others to stand up for theirs? We don't want to be Gay! We don't want our kids to be around people who are gay. Thats what we BELIEVE to be right! If you don't like that.......Sorry about your luck! You will not force me to be gay, or force me to have my family around them! This is not your world. You Don't make the rules.....GOD Does!!!!! We tolerate your existence.... you have to tolerate ours! At least we Pray for you, I'm sure you don't think twice about us. Remember where you came from, Mom and Dad. Thank you Boy Scouts Of America! For standing up, when everyone else sits down.

God Bless

Couldn't have said it better myself Dave!

I look forward to the day when the BSA is looked upon by history as it does on opponents to the Civil Rights Movement, Nazis, opponents to Womens' Suffrage, and Soulja Boy. With contempt and embarrassment that they ever existed in retrospect.

I suppose the reason he let people know he's gay is because lying about it would have been against the Boy Scout code of honor.

I suppose, in the end he wanted his integrity more than the Eagle Scout Ranking.

and for that, he's an admirable kid.

though I imagine, he wanted both his integrity and to be an Eagle Scout.

R Terr

I'm sorry, did he not know the rules?

Yes, because a boy at 11 knows their sexual orientation when joining. (Or 6 when joining cub scouts for that matter for this young man). The central problem here is that many of you think that "gay" is a choice and as such I find you rediculously stupid and/or naive. As poorly as we tend to treat homosexuals in this society, you really think any rational person would make a conscious choice to be gay? Really? You know the direct result of gay mean "chosing" to be straight? Sham marriages, homosexual extramarital affairs, wives suffering from depression / blaming themselves, divorces, and years and years of unhappiness - or even suicide. Yes, repression is always a good plan for mental well-being. Grow up people, just because you parents, pastor, and church told you something is "wrong" doesn't make it wrong - learn to think for yourselves. Do you really honestly think that telling a 17 year old boy that his hard work is for naught because he's being honest about his orientation is reasonable?

I am a straight man and an Eagle Scout - I find myself less and less proud of the organization that I was so confidently a member of when growing up. I always though the organization stood for leadership and self reliance. Apparently I was wrong.

Oh and with regard to the implication - that this is his fault because he was honest about his orientation - First requirement of the scout law: "Trustworthy" Tell me how one is trustworthy without being honest?

"Just because you tolerate something doesn't mean you have to embrace it."

Maybe they just need to embrace one simple fact, that even gay people are still human beings, and not animals. Denver bill 2, people like yourself take the word human out of the word humanity and make it something to be ashamed of.

Way to go scoutmaster, America IS behind you, stay strong against the LIBERAL bullying and boy scout bashing !!!

Anyone find it ironic that in order to receive his award he had to do a project on tolerance, and then the same organization that gave him the project was horribly untolerant of him.

For past Eagle Scouts who are returning their badges. Instead, give it to this young man. He obviously wants it and deserves it.

When oh when will this terrible discrimination end? In Ca. they just passed that it is illegal and unethical to try to change a person's sexual orientation. Come on Boy Scouts, this is just unjust!

The rules are simple well known and have been upheld by the supreme court. Along with no gays one must also believe in a supreme being.

On my honor I will do my best
To do my duty to God and my country
and to obey the Scout Law;
To help other people at all times;
To keep myself physically strong,
mentally awake, and morally straight.

Don't like it don't belong it's that simple.

HE WAS SIX YEARS OLD WHEN HE JOINED, PEOPLE. Jesus... You don't spent ten years of your life working towards a goal from your childhood, only to be three months away from succeeding before "the system" (read: their private little rules) shuts you out.

And this IS an incident of "liberal bullying," Johnny N. A conservative view would be more along the lines of, "we'll let you become an Eagle Scout because that's a noteworthy accomplishment in our society, and then we'll have to let you go because of the rules."

Well, the Boy Scouts are a private organization, so that allows them to set their own rules and standards, however unfair they may seem to the rest of us. Organizaions and businesses that contribute to the scouts are free to withhold support and goods and services if they wish. The Scouts are under no obligation to allow gays, period. As soon as this young man knew he was gay, he should have left the scouts, knowing that any further work toward a higher rank would be futile. He knew the rules of the Scout organization. Sorry for him, but a court should not badger this private club to be all inclusive if it does not wish to be. They don't allow women and they shouldn't. Part of what many people are complaining about these day, where gays are concerned, is this attitude that they must be accepted no matter what, in all organization, even private ones with rules to the contrary. Go to court and force the issue is the gay motto these days. I have no opinion one way or the other about gays, gay marriage, gay anything. I am neutral. Live and let live, but I would never consider forcing my agenda on another.

Well, by golly Mike, I guess that settles it. Who knew it was as simple as that?

The scout master should have asked this kid to leave the boy scouts (and never return) as soon as the child declared himself to be a homosexual. Nothing like waiting until the kid did all the hard work and fully expected to get the award he rightly expected.

I'll have to ask my church about removing the boy scouts from organizations we charter.

The Church Teaches this: gay is a sin

The Church Doesnt Teach this: rich people will not go to heaven

And yet, All Americans - by the worlds standards - are Rich.

"and I tell you again, it is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than to enter the kingdom of heaven" Matthew 19:24

Maureen,

So should private schools be allowed to ban gays or the disabled for that matter?

private schools shoudl be allowed to ban whomever they please. this isnt a communist country...YET!! hence the name...P R I V A T E !!!!

@HOG Lover! So according to you they can not allow anyone in who isn't white too. I bet from your comments that would be alright too. No matter how you look at it it's dicrimination and shouldn't be tolerated, that's one reason my kids were never in scouts and will never be, becuase my kids learned not to hate somebody just because they are of a different race, sexual orientation or just different in any way

All tax money and all use of tax payer funded facilities should be cut from any group promoting discrimination against any American citizen. The boy scouts can believe and do as they please just not with my tax dollars.

dirp,

Hold on, there. It was the kid who decided to wait until the last minute to announce his gayness. He waited until the last three months of somethign he worked of got, what, 12-years? Then after fulfilling all but one requirement, he wants to prance out and announce his gayness? Oh, that one commitment he didn't complete: the requirement to be "Straight". No amount of bad mouthing the Boy Scouts will change this. It is their policy, and have won every right to maintain their policy. The kid do not have to join either the Boy Scouts or the Homosexuals. He chose one over the other.

gun carrier,

Well guess what, they aren't allowed to discriminate regardless of whether they are private or not....schools and private/public companies for that matter. It's called CIVIL RIGHTS! That's the country you live in. One that supports CIVIL RIGHTS. If you don't like it....get the F out!

Hell, instead of trying to join/stay in an organization that doesn't want you, start a new organization named the Gay Scouts of America and allow ANYBODY to join. Problem solved and I'll bet there would be more donations than the kids could spend.

Dirp,

You are absolutely right. I said it in my comment, #182, but I think it is worth repeating...this scoutmaster is a coward. He should have stepped up in the beginning and told Ryan. Instead, he hid his plans until Ryan completed all his tasks...thus earning his Eagle Scout award.

That's right. Ryan Andresen got the last laugh because he is an Eagle Scout. He doesn't need a cheap trinket to prove that. It seems to me this scoutmaster was trying to hurt Ryan and it backfired. Ryan is getting national exposure and now thousands of people know what an amazing human being he is. His scoutmaster also got his message out...now everyone knows what a cowardly piece of (whatever you call it) he is. Win win, don't you think?

The Devil-1138528

All tax money and all use of tax payer funded facilities should be cut from any group promoting discrimination against any American citizen. The boy scouts can believe and do as they please just not with my tax dollars.

You know, the Boy Scouts of America is a PRIVATE Organization that does NOT recieve Tax Dollars. I guess that was your point - that they have every right to make their rules because they do not recieve Tax Dollars?

Sad thing is when young boys join boyscouts they are too young to truly understand sexuality...LOL and by the time they do they have completed most of the work towards earning the highest rank within that group. So if a kid realizes he is gay and decides to confront his sexuality with those who he is essentially taught he can trust, he will be shown the door. I guess what this organization really supports is maintaining a facade.

"Dad" you are a racist...

@Jessica-1170252

"and I tell you again, it is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than to enter the kingdom of heaven" Matthew 19:24

You need to reread it. You seen to have forgotten that it actually says "it's easier to get a camel through the eye of a needle then it is for a RICH man to enter the kingdom of God"

I'd be willing to bet you don't even actually know what it means

@JS in SD

This kid in now not going to get the award he worked so hard for because it appears he tried to make a political statement and it cost him. I think that was extremely deliberate and I refuse to feel sorry for this kid

You are making a lot of assumptions. For all we know this kid has been struggling with his sexual identity his whole life and this July is when he finally came to grips with it. Not every gay person who "comes out" is attempting to make some political statement and nothing this kid had done prior suggests that was his motive.

FreedomOfSpeechRules

gun carrier,

Well guess what, they aren't allowed to discriminate regardless of whether they are private or not....schools and private companies for that matter. It's called CIVIL RIGHTS!

No. You are wrong. Civil Rights do not entitle you to join any Private Organization just because you "feel" you should be allowed to. Try it with VFW, Masons, or entering the "Miss Black America" beauty contest or "Black American Music Awards".

I love the fact that his parents love him UNCONDITIONALLY and stand behind him 100%. So many times, you hear of gay teens being bullied and they can't even turn to their parents/family because of who they are....This kid is going to be just fine because he is surrounded by love.

@The Devil-1138528

All tax money and all use of tax payer funded facilities should be cut from any group promoting discrimination against any American citizen. The boy scouts can believe and do as they please just not with my tax dollars.

I'm not aware of any tax dollars going to the Boy Scouts. In my area they all have their meetings in local churches and I suspect that is common everywhere since the two groups seem to share the same bias.

Boy scouts don't sell cookies door to door ,thats the girl scouts

Boy scouts sell popcorn, and it must be that time of year because every store I go to has them out front. Luckily, I have no problem saying no to a child, so they will not get a penny from me.

@ Jessica

And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a
needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.

It does NOT say that rich people will not go to heaven dear, it is saying it's difficult.

^"For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows" (1st Timothy 6:10) You might want to read that whole chapter.

That aside...not even sure how your comment applies to any of this.

Just weird of you really.

Dad - I forgot to type the word RICH - but my point still stands. Christians are DOOMED.

the words are right below, i didn't attempt to type it from memory (my apologies).

So, uh, this lesbian will be seeing you in hell huh?

¹⁶ And someone came to Him and said, "Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may obtain eternal life?" ¹⁷ And He said to him, "Why are you asking Me about what is good? There is only One who is good; but " if you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments." ¹⁸ Then he *said to Him, "Which ones?" And Jesus said, You shall not commit murder; You shall not commit adultery; You shall not steal; You shall not bear false witness; ¹⁹ Honor your father and mother; and " You shall love your neighbor as yourself." ²⁰ The young man *said to Him, "All these things I have kept; what am I still lacking?" ²¹ Jesus said to him, "If you wish to be complete, go and sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me." ²² But when the young man heard this statement, he went away grieving; for he was one who owned much property.

²³ And Jesus said to His disciples, "Truly I say to you, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. ²⁴ Again I say to you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God." ²⁵ When the disciples heard this, they were very astonished and said, "Then who can be saved?" ²⁶ And looking at them Jesus said to them, With people this is impossible, but with God all things are possible."

*edited because the copy and paste did something funky

lololol dadof...that was funny...

freedom... i never said i didnt like anything. and i could care less if you dont agree with me. and i wouldnt allow you in either. as long as there is no government contribution..ie tax $ then its my opinion that they can set their own rules. there are other private organizations...find 1 that fits your needs. the problem here is folks like you demanding that others bow to your needs as YOU see fit....with total disregard as to what others believe. be a liberal if you please just try not to be so one sided. and if you dont like it that respect for others opinion is paramount then you carry YOUR arse!!!

For what reason would a boy come out that he is gay? Does he realize he now has feelings for other boys and wants everyone to know? Has he been tempted to get romantic with other boys? I can can just imagine what the reaction would be if another boy tells the scout master that another kid felt him up or came on to him.

If he feels he is now tempted so much that he feels he has to come out, then he needs to quit scouting. If he just decides to come out, everyone will assume he will soon start hitting on the other boys. I don't have anything against gays, but the thought of what they do is disgusting to me. That is not the same as a phobia or hate. I would feel the same way if some guy announced he likes having sex with farm animals.

After all the years of dedication and hard work this young man has devoted to the boy scouts, and in turn, to the community; I think it's appaling he should not receive his award. As long as he didnt cause disprution or tried to persaude others regarding his sexual preferences, its completely uncalled for. Let him keep his sexual preferences outside of at least boyscouts, given the stance they have taken Most of us don't dicuss our own within organizations that we are committed. Let be recognized for his years good work for the boyscouts and be allowed to be rewarded for it!

On my honor I will do my best
To do my duty to God and my country
and to obey the Scout Law;
To help other people at all times;
To keep myself physically strong,
mentally awake, and morally straight.

Don't like it don't belong it's that simple.

Then they need to change that to "Christian God" and "Christian morals". Otherwise it does not specify who's God and morals.

Actually, they need to be more specific. Are they referring to the Baptist Christian God? Catholic? the Westboro Christian God? or one of the hundreds of other versions?

And as far as "morals", again they need to be specific. Are we talking about Catholic morals? Old testament morals? New testament? Strict biblical translation? Loose translation?

The hundreds of Christian groups are constantly fighting over who is the "real Christian". So how are we supposed to know what version of Christianity the BSoA follow?

The people whining that the boyscouts don't let gays join. Go to the nearest Mosque and demand that they let gays join or shut up- they will show you intolerance and hate!!!!!!

Not everyone watches 3rd rock, not everyone flaunts their sexuality, we don't care, don't want to know.

Stop being so sensitive and making this about your rights to join every organization!!!!!!!!!!

Chick filet is doing well- thank you. 2% of the population dictating ( not literally) what the other 98% have to do.

"denver bill...i read most all of your posts. good stuff....maybe the kid shoulda joined the girl scouts instead."

Gun carrier, if they ever come up with a class that teaches humanity and compassion, do the human race a big favor, and sign up for a whole lifetime of it, you need it bad. Or, even a class that teaches humility, that would be even better.

Those are the rules?

Then change them.

There is nothing trustworthy, loyal, helpful, friendly, courteous, kind, cheerful, brave or reverent about the bigotry the BSA is laying on this kid...only hypocrisy and pettiness stemming from an obsessive need for rule following.

I would think anyone would need to have had sex before they could call themself Heterosexual or Homosexual. If this boy has not engaged in sexual activity he is neither at the moment. The boy scouts should be nonsexuals. This is where all the rules should have clear judgement. If it is based on religous beliefs,or not; the sexual active candidates should be barred and disqualified. Most guys I went to school with were trysexuals, they'd try anything!

4Rudie - I imagine someone who doesnt think that passage matters, would not connect the dots.

it's called, calling out the hypocrisy.

And id say it's impossible for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle, so if it's easier for one to do that than a rich man to enter heaven...how do you think it equates to "difficult, but not impossible"

Do you know any camels that can pass through eyes of sewing needles?

If all americans - by virtue of being rich, by the worlds standards - are going to hell, why do you all focus on the gays and their sins?

LOOK IN THE MIRROR, YOU'RE COMING WITH US.

Why do gays want to flaunt their sexual preference in front of heterosexuals. This is where the problem lies most heterosexuals could care less about a person's sexual preference but when it is forced on them it becomes as hated as anything that is forced on any person.

How are they "flaunting" their sexual preference in front of you? Do you mean by holding hands? Or kissing?

And how are they "forcing" it on you? Are they coming to your door, knocking, and trying to convert you? I have never seen a homosexual do that, but I routinely see Christians try this exact tactic. So are you "ok" with people coming to your door and pushing their belief on you?

HOG Lover! - Come to think of it, do the girl scouts allow lesbians?

Yes they do. Apparently the Girl Scouts aren't dumb bigots.

KEM-

I'm talking about private companies where you work. They can't discriminate. I'm also talking about private schools. They can't discriminate either.

Jessica,

While we probably agree on this issue, I just want to point out your ignorance on the verse.

A needle back then was a pen used to keep camels in back in that time period. You could get the camel out buck it would be very hard to squeeze them through, and they had to be down on their knees (praying metaphor) for them to be able to get out. He is not talking about a sewing needle.

So yeah, not impossible, just hard, and must be done with humbleness.

If you want to point out supposed hypocrisy, at least know what you are talking about.

Only in America-2604171

"Just because you tolerate something doesn't mean you have to embrace it."

Maybe they just need to embrace one simple fact, that even gay people are still human beings, and not animals. Denver bill 2, people like yourself take the word human out of the word humanity and make it something to be ashamed of.

Of course gay people are human. (The statement "People are human" a tautology, by the way.). I said nothing about this boy or his predicament, but simply responded to a post about intolerance. I stand by my statement that because you tolerate something (Tolerate -- the root word of tolerance and intolerance) does not mean you have to embrace it. I am tolerant of the gay lifestyle. By the definition of the word, that means I understand it exists, and I choose not to interfere with it, even though I disagree with it. Which sets me apart from you, who indirectly accuse me of being inhuman for pointing shades of gray in an argument that so many wish to portray as black and white. Instead of being so judgemental of me and "people like me" (intolerant, should I say?), you might wish to spend some time learning to become a master debater and cunning linguist.

Only in America-2604171

Gun carrier, if they ever come up with a class that teaches humanity and compassion, do the human race a big favor, and sign up for a whole lifetime of it, you need it bad. Or, even a class that teaches humility, that would be even better.

I rest my case.

Tolerance it seems only goes one way. We must accept homosexual behavior. We all must embrace this aberrant lifestyle. This that we were taught was wrong, immoral and wicked. We put on our Sunday best we went to Sunday School. We learned that marriage is between a man and a woman. Now, all that information is supposed to be forgotten and the Bible rewritten to suit Homosexuals. Amazing. If we do not comply we are INTOLERANT. BIGOTS, HATERS. We the Christian, God loving, Americans we are, must change our entire belief system or Homosexuals are victims of our behavior. I admit to being danged confused. I thought this was a country built on the hard work, determination and blood of our forefathers to embrace our differences. I personally don't want to know what you do in the privacy of your bedroom or who you do it with any more than I want you in mine. There will always be special interest groups of all kinds that promote their way of thinking. Free Speech. I would not want my Grandchild exposed to any ones sex life. We just don't need to know. This young man kept his sexuality to himself until 3 weeks before he was to EARN Eagle Scout Rank. We are to believe he was suddenly seized by a guilty conscience or fit of Pride in his sexuality and could hide it no more. Really? Do we the people really strike you as that gullible? Just stop.

MrBurns

I believe her overall point was that Christians routinely pick and choose which biblical passage they will follow, and which ones they ignore. It is the hypocrisy of quoting one verse, like one in Leviticus, while ignoring a different verse from the same book.

By doing this, Christians have given themselves the right to alter their own religion to fit their personal beliefs. If you go through the whole bible, you are bound to find a verse that supports whatever personal belief you may have. And by ignoring the various verses that contradict their belief, they have altered their religion to fit their needs.

For instance: Christians will ignore almost all of Leviticus, casting it out as old testament law they no longer need to follow. Yet they will hold on to that one verse in Leviticus referring to homosexuals. So even though they claim the entire book is thrown out as old testament law, they still grab one of those laws.

You will also see them twist the "judge not" verse, by quoting the "your brothers keeper" verse. They have convinced themselves that the "judge not" verse can be amended with the "brothers keeper" clause, allowing them to judge in certain situations, even though such amendments to their laws are never acknowledged by their Christ.

You see, it's one big game of semantics. They twist the words and laws of their religion to fit whatever narrative they want.

Mo-563393 - Tolerance it seems only goes one way. We must accept homosexual behavior. We all must embrace this aberrant lifestyle.

The BSA is free to have racially segregated troops like they always used to do, and they're free to deny membership to gays and atheists.

And the rest of us are free to call them dumb bigots.

I agree with that Indie, although we are not all like that. But yes, many, many are.

However, for one to effectively prove a point, they should know what they are talking about. If your one example you use is flat out wrong, you cant win in a debate. I dont think she is bad or stupid or anything. Just uninformed.

Wow, the stupidity in this comment thread is nearly overwhelming.

"thats the girl scouts, Thats where this boy belongs"

Haha, because gay men are really just like women. Get it? Get it?

"Do you people not understand that living this lifestyle is WRONG! How can you force your beliefs on others, when you don't allow others to stand up for theirs? We don't want to be Gay! We don't want our kids to be around people who are gay."

Your kids are going to be around people who are gay, whether you like it or not.

"You will not force me to be gay"

Is there something you'd like to tell us here? You seem to be really worried that you could become gay at any moment. Most straight people I know are confident enough in their sexuality to not feel threatened by the existence of gay people.

"Hold on, there. It was the kid who decided to wait until the last minute to announce his gayness. He waited until the last three months of somethign he worked of got, what, 12-years?"

Well, I can pretty much guarantee you that he didn't know that he was gay when he 6. I don't think you quite comprehend how much gay young people struggle to come to terms with their sexuality. His coming out probably wasn't strategically planned - it was almost certainly something he struggled with for several years, and he just happened to finally muster up the courage to come out.

"The kid do not have to join either the Boy Scouts or the Homosexuals. He chose one over the other."

He chose cub scouts when he was 6. He most likely realized he was gay when he was a teenager. In either case, he didn't choose to "join the Homosexuals." I'm guessing you missed the memo, but at least a vast majority of gay people are gay because of biological factors and environment during early childhood.

You clearly don't understand how these things work.

"if people have a problem with rules then don't join the organization, if there rules don't fit your lifestyle then you don't belong."

He joined when he was 6.

"4, if that is your reasoning then why should I pay for the 47% to sit around on their bums and keep popping kids out that they can’t afford just so they get a bigger welfare check from me every month? You sir, put forth a poor argument."

You sir, have been drinking some mighty strong Kool-Aid.

"I do not agree with homosexuality; it's not normal and is immoral but if someone is gay I have no problem with it because it doesn't affect me at all. I actually have a few gay friends who I get along with very well but they don't try throwing it in my face every chance they get. ... Same goes with black pride, woman power and so on."

Well, A. homosexuality is actually quite normal and occurs throughout nature. Second, whenever you find yourself saying something like "some of my friends are gay," you really need to stop yourself. Almost inevitably, what follows such statements is something stupid.

For the record, you don't "get" things like gay pride, women's liberation, and black pride because you're not part of a minority group, and are used to having all the power. Of course, not every gay person feels the need to participate in gay parade prides just as every black person doesn't care much for black pride. However, for some in those groups those kinds of things (parades, etc.) serve an essential function - they help them feel a sense of solidarity, and they help them come to terms with who they are.

You simply don't understand how hard it can be for some in minority groups. As much as you'd like to push the narrative that gays have somehow taken over society, many still feel very alone and end up with very low self-esteem as a result of being brought up in a culture that teaches that their biology makes them "unnatural" and "immoral" (in other words, that something they didn't choose makes them a lesser individual.) The gay characters on television and in the movies don't cancel out the negative messages they're getting from family members and schoolmates.

"Yes, I can quite clearly see how an extreme left liberal would think that is bigotry, hate, etc. but you honestly couldn't be further from the truth. I am a very accepting person to all individuals; if you knew me personally you clearly see that, everyone I know does, even my extremely liberal friends. But trying to demonize someone's opinion and make them out to be evil for it is bigotry in itself. So the next time you feel like calling someone a bigot for having an opinion you had better take a good hard look in the mirror because you are more of a bigot than anyone who doesn't agree with homosexuality. And by chastising those who have an opinion, you are chastising the very foundations on which OUR country was built upon...freedom of speech and individuality."

Many bigots don't realize they're bigots. One doesn't have to be "extreme left" to realize how misguided you are.

Yes, my good sir, you are a bigot. And pointing that out - calling out intolerant people for being intolerant - does not make one equally bigoted.

It may be that you're a perfectly cool person to be around in real life, but your internet persona reveals more about you than you'd like to admit. Your words reveal you to be a bigot, no matter how much you deny it. Doesn't mean that you shouldn't have the right to speak your mind - but you can't feel too bad when people call you out on your bigotry. You call people "immoral" and "unnatural" for their biology, and people respond. Don't mistake people criticizing you for repression of your right to free speech. That would be a truly un-American thought process.

Develop a sense of empathy, and then look back on the stupid, ugly things you've written here. You'll find that you see things in a very different light.

JFC-3426249

I think it stinks the kid doesn't get his award, but how did they know he was gay?!?

Improve your reading comprehension and you would know.

When I see the parents and their scouts in front of the grocery store hawking their inferior popcorn, I inform them that they are part of a hateful organization.

I refuse to let my boys join boy scouts and I told them it's because they're a hateful intolerant organization that while they claim to be tolerant and are against bullying, are not so secret about their hatred towards others.

I do not agree with the BSA, however they are a private group. It is so funny how people will pick and choose which things from the Bible that they will and will not follow. They use the old testament to discriminate against gays, yet they do not ban eating pork or shellfish and they allowed divorced parents to participate.

I would suggest to all parents who object to this, to form their own association.... one the does not discriminate!

Timmy came home with the "Sore @$$" Merit Badge his scout master helped him get - they are so close they even spend the night in one sleeping bag together. BSA - protect those pedophiles, but screw those gay boy scouts - oh, maybe you do anyhow!

@ Denver Bill 2 who said "Just because you tolerate something doesn't mean you have to embrace it."

Since when are gays asking anyone to embrace being gay in order to allow them to be a boy scout. How homophobic and inflammatory can you get?

Good job BSA you held up your policy and that is a great thing indeed i might just send you a few grand check for staying true to your values. Now get the pedophiles out of there and you will see a 10 grand check from me. Thank you BSA for not allowing this thing to continue in the BSA.

BSA is a private organization that has the rights to make it's own rules and this organization has had the same rules from the very beginning. Yeah, they may have had problems with boys getting molested, but that is why safety rules are strictly enforced now and they certainly don't need gays running around coming on to other scouts or gay leaders with the scouts. If I found out some gay boy tried coming ont my scout, I would have to kick his butt myself. Scouting is about God and country and if you are gay you are not true to God. Just because whacko people think it is sociably acceptable to be gay does not mean it is acceptable to God or to people who believe in God. I do not support gay people at all. God made man and woman, not man and man or woman and woman. It is a most unnatural act. Gay people need to accept the fact that if you want to be gay then don't joint organizations that do not allow it. Go form your own gay group. People who don't believe in gay people have the right to not believe in it and do not have to accept it and do not have to change their organizations to accommodate you. It would offend me very much and would not be acceptable to me be for a gay boy to part of our scouting troop, but gay people don't seem to get that, don't offend them, but they can offend you. Gay people get over it-stop trying to force yourselves on people who don't accept your disgusting way of life. If BSA starts allowing gays in, that will be the end of such a great organization because the straight boys would drop out. I would not allow my scout child to be associated with a group of gay scouts. BSA-Good for you for standing your ground and upholding the scouting laws and doing your duty to God. And you can call me whatever-I don't care-it's my God given right to find this disgusting act unacceptable.

To all you people claiming the Boy Scouts is a hateful organization...you really need to grow up. No where has this organization said they hate gay people...you people are saying that. They simply say they do not want that type of lifestyle in their organization...which is their right...just as it is the right of gay people to start their own organization in regards to scouting...and they can keep straight people out of it just as well...it would be their right. Exactly what part of that does your tiny little brains not understand? This isn't rocket science and this isn't a hate group.

This "pack the bags we're going on a hate/guilt trip" mentality doesn't work. If you can actually read and comprehend an article you will not find anywhere that is says "we hate gays"...so stop spreading lies.

Then Steve they need to remove the Tolerance out of their creed. Because that is NOT tolerance.

@ Jessica-1170252

Great comment about the contradiction between Christians and their god Jesus. I would add this passage which sums it up nicely in Jesus' own words:

On that day many will say to me, "Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name,
and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name? But I will reply, 'I never knew you. Get away from me, you who break God's laws."

By these words their own God despises those who are shunning this boy and rejecting his accomplishment as not as worthy as their own. If they were truly followers of Jesus they could not do this.

They also completely twist the story about Jesus intervening to stop a woman from being stoned to death for her crimes. The way Christians teach it they invent the idea that Jesus told everyone to never talk about her sins and to pretend like she's a born again virgin. In other words, they act like Jesus commanded we all lie to protect criminals and they claim if you don't pretend like they are innocent you are sinning for judging them. Nowhere in the story does Jesus tell the crowd that the woman is innocent just because they all sin too. Jesus never admonishes the crowd to pretend like she is a virgin or pretend like her crimes never happened. However, this is what Christians teach the story to mean.

It's very odd that Christians will completely reinvent a story about Jesus giving approval for being a prostitute to a woman but they can't find it within them to treat a young boy with kindness because they judge his being gay as a sin. I thought they were only supposed to cast a stone if they themselves are sinless.

Clearly Christianity is the religion of the hypocrites and bigots.

It's not this boy who isn't upholding his duty to "God", it's the Boy Scouts. God doesn't hate anyone, God doesn't discriminate, and only HE can judge people. Anyone on this thread blaming the boy or his family, by their own beliefs, is going to hell for presuming they have the authority to judge ANYONE. Show me a boy scout who is perfect in every way, who has never "sinned".

COME ON, PEOPLE. "He knew the rules" doesn't fly here, and there's no excuse anymore for this kind of intolerance in this day and age. The Bible casually promotes polygamy, incest, infanticide, and slavery--doesn't mean we still think that's okay in 2012! Get over yourselves. Stop upholding the status quo, because the status quo is WRONG.

TO STEVE

Don't worry:

I work with the IRS and I will make sure to submitt serious consideration to organizations like this one...BSA

so they will have to pay taxes like any other business...Since their intentions do not provide any good deeds to the community... Now then you can be a bigot and discriminate all you want...

Trust me, Hell not knows fury like mine... is a promise.

No matter your sexual orientation, this is wrong and immoral. The kids that join this organization feel they are doing something worthy and honorable. After participating for years, they find themselves or their friends rudely dismissed for simply being who they are (to no fault of their own).

I remember visiting a Baptist Church with a friend when I was thirteen. We were in a Sunday school class for teens. Many of the older teens wore high school football jackets. 

The Sunday school teacher announced there would be a church sponsored hay-ride for teens on Friday evening. He asked for a show of hands of those that would be attending. Every hand went into the air except mine. He singled me out and asked why I would not be going. I innocently explained that I had plans to go to the High school football game on Friday night.

He looked me in the eyes and stated that football was a sin. I was stunned. He again asked for a show of hands that agreed football was a sin. Once more, every hand went to the air except mine. I was furious. At least half of the kids in that rural Sunday school class either played football or regularly went to the game. This clown had just made all of them hypocrites.

The Boy Scouts of America is visiting that same atrocity on millions of impressionable young boys. Shame on them. Kids are a lot smarter than many believe. They will eventually correct this gross injustice by refusing to join.

Barb from Vegas

Boy Scouts don't sell cookies

Then what's the freakin' point?

Ryan is a decent young man who has earned the right to become an Eagle Scout. What a shame, the pledge Boys Scouts makes, at every meeting is not being honored. It is time EVERYONE accepted the FACT, people are born gay or straight. The Boy Scouts are showing their ignorance and are also forgetting, people like Ryan donate to the Boy Scouts. Remember the United Way? Not a penny will be coming for me. I want to see bigotry and hatred end!

The Boy Scouts can admit who they want.

Come to think of it, can I claim sex discrimination if the Girl Scouts won't let my son in?

How about you sue the Girl Scouts for not letting boys in? Imagine that - admission solely based on a sexual organ that boys have no control over!

Commonsense, a similar thing happened to me when I was that same age, at a Baptist church as well. I was singled out and humiliated in front of the rest of the group.

What is it with Christians, all of whom are sinners themselves (they're human, after all), and their desperate need to single out others and blame them? Is it to feel better about themselves? Christians, are you THAT insecure in yourself and your religion that you need to bully others to put yourselves up on some kind of pedestal? I don't get it. Y'all drove me away from religion so fast with that kind of behavior! Word of advice: if your religion feels 'threatened', it's probably because you've been pointing fingers at one another and everyone else for too damn long. Try being the meek, gracious, loving, accepting, and humble servant that Jesus actually intended for you to be, and maybe we'll all be a little more accepting.

The only one who can get away with the fire and brimstone judgment is GOD.

Vexxa

Since when are gays asking anyone to embrace being gay in order to allow them to be a boy scout. How homophobic and inflammatory can you get?

Nice straw person argument. Gays are not asking BSA to embrace their lifestyle, they are asking to be admitted. I will support the argument that BSA (a private organization) is obligated to admit gays the moment that the Century Club of Rochester (a private organization) is obligated to admit me.

Judy you are not born gay or straight it's a choice. When your born you don't know what sex is let alone chose to be gay or not so that theory goes right out the window it is a choice that is made when you hit puberty. Girls don't like you you turn gay boys don't like you you turn lesbian if neither sex likes you then your stuck with rose palmer and her 5 sisters.

I will support the argument that BSA (a private organization) is obligated to admit gays the moment that the Century Club of Rochester (a private organization) is obligated to admit me.

I love it when straight, white men try to assume an indignant air about being excluded from anything. To me, there is nothing funnier. Move over. You've been in charge for too long, and look how you've screwed everything up. If you don't get why there are separate clubs & organizations for women or minorities, and it's not "discrimination", I suggest you shut your mouth and open a history book.

Judy you are not born gay or straight it's a choice.

So SnakeFist, tell us about the time you chose to be straight, then. How old were you? What made you decide?

it is a choice that is made when you hit puberty

So you made a choice? You sat there and thought: "Hmmmmm, do I want penis or vagina?" And you thought about it, weighed the decision, and made a choice?

Sorry, but as a straight guy, I NEVER thought about it. It was never a choice. I was always attracted to girls.

If you made a choice, that means you thought about it . . . you considered it. If you even thought about it, well . . . what do you think that means?

I say if the kid EARNED it give it to him. His sexual orientation has squat to do with earning an achievment. If the Boy Scouts had any real HONOR they wouldn't have tried to sweep the sexual abuse of years ago under the rug. Teaching tolerance of others is Godly too. You don't have to EXCEPT the gay lifestyle or agree with it. But you could agree to disagree and be RESPECTFUL of the individual and their RIGHTS to be who they WANT to be.

The Boy Scouts have a lot of rules that must be followed to attaining any rank but especially Eagle Scout. Should I complain because I didn't receive my Eagle Award because I quit before being active 6 months after completing my 29th Merit Badge? It wasn't that I hadn't been in Scouts for long enough, only that I had been involved in other activities that had prevented me from being active in Scouting.

While it does rather stink that the kid isn't getting his Eagle Award, the organization does have a responsibility (which admittedly it has failed at on occasion) to protect the younger scouts from molestation. If a few closeted homosexuals (not that all homosexuals are pedophiles, but all pedophiles who molested scouts were homosexuals) were molesting scouts on camping trips, how would increasing the number of homosexuals that the children are exposed to reduce the number of molestations? THAT is why the BSA has a NO OPENLY GAY MEMBERS OR LEADERS RULE. They don't want to discriminate against anyone, but they do need to at least try to reduce the risk to the scouts.

Their founder was devoutly Christian, and the organization is based on Christian principles. The Scout oath says "On my honor, I will do my best to do my duty to God and my country..." (There are provisions for scouts of all religions, just not scouts who deny the existence of a God. I have seen religious services provided in a number of faiths at BSA events.) If he has said that he does not believe in that duty, than he has officially denounced the principles of the organization, and effectively resigned therefrom. It would be like a Nascar driver saying that the tracks should have speed bumps to keep people from driving too fast, or an NBA or NFL player saying that they shouldn't keep score. It's against the entire principle of the organization. Since he has said that he does not intend to abide by the rules of the organization, exactly why should they present him with an honor that only a select few obtain? He has effectively said "I want my award, even if I'm not willing to abide by the rules to get it." While I understand that the concept of rules seems to be foreign to some people, they are what separates (at least some) humans from the lower life forms. Even most mammals who live in communities have rules, they may be instinctual codes of conduct, but they are still rules. Wolves, Lions, Elephants and Gorillas all have rules for their groups.

Personally, I would love to see the homosexuals who would like to be able to continue in scouting start an organization to allow those scouts who are gay to continue towards a similar type of award structure. They have a perfect blueprint for what awards to require and what to require to get them. I think it would do wonders for improving the image of the gay community. There are many great men and women out there who are gay, and I think if they would step up to the challenge, not only would it help these young men to develop into better adults, but would be a benefit to everyone. Stop screaming "Intolerance" (BTW Screaming about intolerance because you can't tolerate someone else's position IS BEING INTOLERANT.) and become active in promoting a positive image for your community. Since most scouts won't have a sexual preference until their into puberty, why not have the membership start at a later age?

BTW it isn't impossible to build an organization that runs parallel to the Boy Scouts of America. The Assemblies of God Church did it years ago with an organization called Royal Rangers. So those who oppose the BSA rule, start your own organization. It won't take much. The Boy Scouts were started to teach boys how to be good outdoors men by a British military officer who saw how much better in the bush the Boer soldiers were during the Boer war.

If you haven't guessed, I'm NOT anti gay. I just happen to be pro BSA. They don't have to be mutually exclusive.

If Romney becomes president, there will be no such thing as Eagle Scouts. Sign up to get your Vulture badges now!

The Boy Scouts are an anti-American organization at this point.

If I wanted my kid to belong to a Christian organization that actually didn't lie about their agenda, I'd just have him go to a youth group at a Church.

Boy Scouts, soon to eliminate Jews, Hindu and Athiest children from their ranks. Also soon to be changing their uniform to white robes with pointed hats....

Well, Snakefist, something tells me you've yet to convince any females to like YOU, since neither I nor any self-respecting female would go anywhere near a hateful, disgusting degenerate like yourself, despite your obvious 'passion' towards us, so now what? Onto the dudes? Do let me know how that goes. Your little argument goes out the window, and you'll likely be banned, so... NEXT.

Preceded, excuse me little kid.

I'm married and got 4 kids so don't go making assumptions that you know nothing about. When you make assumptions you make an ass out of your self and that's exactly what you did. My wife is 5'8 126 lbs and not one fat cell in her body. Sorry I would put you down like you did me but I'm more of a person then you ever be. So go back to playing with your barbies if they still make them and leave this forum to the grown ups. No argument here other then you just broke number one of the code of honor on this site.

SnakeFist, Tell us all of the moment you first considered your choice of being heterosexual or homosexual and the moment you finally made your life-long decision. Did you consult with your family and friends or just jump off the deep end? Was it like a 10 year old at a candy store trying to decide on gummy worms or sour balls?

Seriously, please tell us about that momentous decision that all of the rest of us(gay and straight) never got to experience except lucky you.

"While the BSA did not proactively ask for this information, based on his statements and after discussion with his family he is being informed that he is no longer eligible for membership in Scouting.”

----------------------

Bottom line: BSA was prepared to look the other way...don't ask, don't tell, as it were. But he insisted on flying his true colors....pushed it in their faces and challenged their creed. They had no choice and his complaining now is hypocritical and insulting to the intelligence of anyone who has any of that increasingly rare commodity.

Hey commonsense what do you get off hearing peoples sex stories? BTW read above about 10 posts.

Who you are sexually attracted to is NOT a choice. Stop mistaking what you do with what you feel. Your physiology and genetic background cause you to have arousal without any conscious thought whatsoever. The choice comes to either pretend as though you don't have those feelings your entire life or accept those feelings. THAT is a choice. Being gay or bisexual is NOT a choice.

Anyone who believes being gay is a choice either has a horribly low education level or they are mentally challenged to the point they are unable to comprehend what the difference between and "instinct" and a "voluntary response" is.

While I support not having gay scout masters, I think that what they did to this boy in wrong.

This sort of thing comes from a deeply seated shield from the truth that begats an ignorance so profound it definitely must cause brain damage. It is a startling irony that Boy Scout people bring God into it without even a hint getting through to them that according to their beliefs, that God created Gays. To be so profane as to say it is God's will that Gayness is evil or however else the stupids describe them, is the real sin being commited.

Whatever good the organization thinks they are doing becomes moot next to the damage they do through this segregation they achieve which is poisoning young people's minds and that then perpetuates the crime. I see the Boy Scout organization as guilty of slander as a hate crime.

Snakefist - You bring up a very good point... Psychologists have found out that guys like you who are overly intent on hatefully protesting against gays and spread stereotypical nonsense about gays usually ARE GAY... or have had same sex attractions they try to suppress.

So when you hear a guy saying gay this and gay that and telling gay jokes and making hateful comments about gays more often than normal... or making it his business to stamp out gayness around him... That guy has a VERY high probability of being a closet gay or someone who can't accept they had a same sex arousal as being a normal part of life.

TO: NC-492358: You say "They hate no one. They simply do not want perverts in the organization. It is their right to do so. "Everything" is not ok just because YOU do not like it. Don't like the Scouts? Don't join." Yes, one answer is: don't join. But you're an idiot when you say "they simply do not want perverts in the organization." With all the child molesters they've been hiding and covering up for (i.e. the church and Penn. State), they're doing a damn good job of welcoming perverts into the organization.

Wake up: a gay person is no more likely to be a pervert than a heterosexual person.

Vexxa i never once said that i hate gays or bash gays so STOP PUTTING WORDS INTO MY MOUTH!

But yet your bashing me for no reason other then to have something to bitch about. Please state where i said i hated gays or bash them you can't so please keep your hateful remarks to your self. And to answer you nope i think guys look nasty and never was aroused by them i think a guy naked is the most disgusting thing there is next to a fat chick being naked both are gross to look at. Except me i look great in the nude. Even seeing a body builder almost nude makes me puke except female body builders there hot looking.

@ Jim in Auburn - You comment saying they shouldn't have gay scout masters but gay boy scouts are okay is just another ignorant stereotypical homophobic comment like all the others. I bet you think every gay man is out to convert you to be gay. You probably think every gay man wants your body too. You think being gay is the equivalent of pedophilia but have no reason to connect those dots. You simply are so afraid of gays that you vilify them for no reason based on ignorance. If you had any facts... you would know that supposedly heterosexual white males commit the vast majority of sexual crimes against children in general and against boys.

It's okay to have an organization that is just for boys even though that is excluding girls based on gender. But that is as far as they can take their bias and prejudice.

If Boy Scouts were excluding black boys we'd be having a whole different discussion about the BSA's rights to discriminate as they see fit. And you all know that is true.

So don't hand me this garbage about the BSA has a right to violate the rights of people by discriminating against only the people that YOU find objectionable.

Lot's of bigots in here...

The kid joined scouting when he was 6 years old, long before puberty set in and before discovering his orientation.

I understand keeping pedophiles out of scouts, but all male teens should be accepted, regardless of sexual orientation. Many of them start scouts very young. I have excluded the BSA from my United Way donations.

Vexxa

It's okay to have an organization that is just for boys even though that is excluding girls based on gender. But that is as far as they can take their bias and prejudice.

The girl scouts also discriminate they don't allow boys in there org. So that point of yours makes no sense and is full of hot air. The BSA and the GSA are both the same, they both discriminate.

OK, so here's the deal. The BSA wants to consider its protection of child molesting adults off limits but wants to deny the Eagle Scout rank to a boy who has done no harm to anyone.

Conservatives believe that there is no problem because BSA is a private organization.

I fail to understand either the BSA or the conservatives who wish to protect them. Why is it that private businesses are not allowed to discriminate but the BSA is free to operate as it chooses, regardless of civil rights violations?

SnakeFist - Not that I am surprised, but you failed to comprehend what is typed in plain black and white. I said that it is okay for the BSA to discriminate by being all boys. So essentially your comment scolding me about agreeing with me is just you being mentally slow.

I can't believe that such things are happening in this day and age and that too in a country like America.

What the F#$%# are we fighting those damn Taliban for half a world away if this is the kind of @!$%# that is going on in this country ? I mean we sneer at the Saudis because they don't let their women drive and here we are acting in the same medieval intolerant manner that we hector the rest of the world for ...

Ridi-@!$%#ing-culous !!!

Snakefist I have read all your comments and denial is pointless. Obviously I'm not the only one who thinks so. In fact you seem overly quick to say very ignorant comments about gays that are typically reserved for those special closet gay men who constantly go around spreading lies while they secretly have encounters in the bushes in parks. LOL

Vexxa

Again you attack me for no reason and i, not once attacked you have fun in ban land as i have reported both of your attacks against me. No sorry I'm not slow i just don't want to comprehend something from people who attack me and people who ramble on and on with no valid point so do me a favor and keep your crude remarks to your self.

Vexxa again where do i bash gays at i don't so stop @!$%#ing writing me you @!$%#ing understand me. Like i said i never bashed gays and i'm not in the @!$%#ing closet i'm @!$%#ing married with 4 kids now don't wrote me again cause hell they way your talking sounds like your in the closet.

CLUE - If you are equating adult gay males with pedophilia or even suggesting that there is a higher rate of pedophilia among adult gay males... you are spreading propaganda and bigotry.

Jerry Sandusky is the poster guy for pedophiles who assault boys. Outwardly heterosexual white males usually married to women and seem completely normal to everyone around them.

Stop lying about openly gay adult males being pedophiles. While I'm sure there have been some, they are rare. Heterosexuals are the ones who get the stereotype for sexually assaulting boys.

Snakefist, your vitriol and your desperate need to prove yourself, right down to giving me your alleged wife's height and weight, makes me HIGHLY doubt you're married, and makes me fervently hope you don't have children. That doesn't really matter anyway, it doesn't prove your point, so no need to keep trying to convince anyone.

Your argument is completely invalid. The experience you describe from 4th grade was not a conscious decision, it was a realization. Big difference. A decision implies you weighed two or more choices in your mind. Your "woody" says it all: it was a natural reaction. You made no choice. So... again. NEXT.

@BP the grape

I can can just imagine what the reaction would be if another boy tells the scout master that another kid felt him up or came on to him

Straight boys don't go around "feeling up" people so what on Earth would make you think that gay boys would?

If he just decides to come out, everyone will assume he will soon start hitting on the other boys

Everyone?? No, that's just ridiculous. Most of us have more sense than that. Perhaps he would start "coming on to" other gay boys but the idea that gay people try to force themselves on people who don't share their sexual orientation is ludicrous.

I don't have anything against gays, but the thought of what they do is disgusting to me. That is not the same as a phobia or hate. I would feel the same way if some guy announced he likes having sex with farm animals.

Yeah, you keep telling yourself that but no one else is buying it. Obviously you fear they may try to feel you up or come on to you and comparing gays to people who have sex with animals is pretty hateful by any standard.

Wow. I feel sorry for your imaginary skinny wife. You sound verbally abusive, if not more, at the slightest drop of a hat. Calm down. Now, as for Vexxa and I, what was it you said about making assumptions?

Vexxa / #1.108 --

You need to go back and re-read the Bible. Jesus never condones adultery or prostitution (see 10 commandments)...Also Jesus tells her "Neither do I condemn thee: Go, and sin no more." John 8:11

For me, this story is more about the atoning sacrifice of Jesus, repentance, mercy, and forgiveness. You really shouldn't generalize what "the Christians" teach...espcially if you do not understand true doctrine.

SnakeFist - If anyone is going to enjoy the ban hammer it's you for your sexually explicit postings. These 2 posts I'm quoting below of yours are gay hating and spreading lies about gays:

"Good job BSA you held up your policy and that is a great thing indeed i might just send you a few grand check for staying true to your values. Now get the pedophiles out of there and you will see a 10 grand check from me. Thank you BSA for not allowing this thing to continue in the BSA.

Judy you are not born gay or straight it's a choice. When your born you don't know what sex is let alone chose to be gay or not so that theory goes right out the window it is a choice that is made when you hit puberty. Girls don't like you you turn gay boys don't like you you turn lesbian if neither sex likes you then your stuck with rose palmer and her 5 sisters."

Telling people that gays are only gay because the opposite sex won't have them is hate speech against gays.

DefenderSix - No. YOU need to go back and re-read my comment because I never said that in any way shape or form. You are making my point for me. Christians read backwards and take everything backwards that is written. I said that Jesus was ONLY teaching against capital punishment in the story about casting the first stone. I said that Jesus NEVER told people to pretend she was innocent. The story IS NOT about forgiving people. The story is about how it is wrong to kill someone when you are not perfect yourself.

READ.

No, it hasn't evolved to that. It has always been that way. So if you don't agree with the tenets of the organization, I advise that you either change your ways or change the organization that you are apart of. I agree with the person above who said that to be tolerant of something doesn't mean that you have to embrace it. Or would you take away the rights of the rest and be intolerant of them?

Vexxa i said not like you i never said wont have you 2 different things comprehend some of what you read dummy.

I'm done with this story if you write something i wont see it unlike you i have a life and i have to go and read my 3 yr old his nightly bedtime story. So don't even bother writing back cause i wont see it as i have ignored both of you. Sorry tyler and sally for feeding the trolls. I'll enjoy the ban for giving these 2 things called human i highly doubt they are a piece of my mind after they relentlessly attacked me for no reason.

he recently came out as gay

Why did he need to ? Why do gays need to even talk about their orientation at all ? Hetero dont make some profound statement to the public that their hetero.

If you dont like the BSA and their beliefs, then just go make some Gay scouts of america. Its that simple. Be with like minded people and life gets easier. Dont try to force private organizations into believing what you want.

Of course it will be called Hatred, but by definition you cant associate the word hate and not allowing a person in an organization because of a moral standard. You have to remember The boy scouts were around before any of this liberal movement was around pushing and bullying everyone. And God was before any of this, with his moral standard of one man, one woman. If your Gay, then that doesnt fall in line with the morality of God. Doesnt mean hate, no bashing.. Its like being 21 to get into a bar. If your not 21 , you dont get in.

Vexxa

DefenderSix - No. YOU need to go back and re-read my comment because I never said that in any way shape or form. You are making my point for me. Christians read backwards and take everything backwards that is written. I said that Jesus was ONLY teaching against capital punishment in the story about casting the first stone. I said that Jesus NEVER told people to pretend she was innocent. The story IS NOT about forgiving people. The story is about how it is wrong to kill someone when you are not perfect yourself.

READ.

There is a lot more to the story then that. Just as Jesus Forgives, he also expects us to turn away from the sins we commit . So just like the Lady, he told her to knock of the sinning ,, in laymens terms.

Judy you are not born gay or straight it's a choice.

Just because your attracted to other men and choose to be only with females doesn't mean everyone else has that same choice. I never had a choice, I was born straight I'm not bisexual like you are, my niece is a lesbian if it was something simple as a choice she never would have went through the assaults and harassment at school which followed her to work and social sites. Not everyone is lucky like you and able to choose from either sexes.

It's painfully obvious that your suffering and unhappy and feel ashamed about your sexual preferences. When you finally free yourself and come out I will be happy for you and still consider you a human being.

This boy's civil rights have been violated. Maybe the Boy Scouts should be allowed to ban blacks, or Jews, etc. ? This is ridiculous. Go to court. Inalienable rights. I am also confused as to why this sin in particular is so grievous. Would someone please explain the hierarchy of sins ? Is being gay a worse sin than lying ? Are we not all sinners ? Yet this sin is worse than others ? A hierarchy of sins is NOT in any bible. There is no hierarchy people. Get over yourselves and your phobias.

Defender Six - Before you criticize someone else about their failure to accept the TRUTH... here is some TRUTH for you.

The tale of Jesus is a copy cat story that identically matches dozens of other saviour myths that pre-date the existence of Jesus. The story is too complicated and exact to be a coincidence.

1. A Virgin usually named some form of the word "Mare" has an immaculate son by "God"

2. The half god boy works miracles and nearly always the first miracle is turning water into wine.

3. He teaches love and peace and has exactly 12 followers who he mentors

4. He is persecuted for his teaching and killed as a martyr for daring to defy the powers that be

5. His spirit descends into 'hell" or the underworld of the damned for exactly 3 days

6. He is "reborn" or comes back to life and ascends into the heavens to live with his father god.

Just do a Google search of "Saviors that Pre-date Jesus" or similar search.

All the most academically renowned scholars of the world admit that the stories contain far too many similarities to be coincidence and they came BEFORE Jesus which proves Christianity is a paganized religion that Saul (Paul) dragged from JUDAISM about a man who was teaching and caused a political stir. Paul contrived the whole thing as was the custom in those days to mythologize martyrs by layering this pagan contrived story of the SUN GOD on top of the martyrs actual teachings in his life so they meld and become one religious movement.

Jesus was a Jew and he never ceased practicing ancient Judaism and called himself King of the Jews. By that fact alone we can prove that Christianity is a farce layered on top of a dead Jewish martyr. Judaic laws prohibit many Christian practices and Jesus would never himself have claimed he was king of Jews while remaining unmarried, childless, uncircumcised, practicing Sunday Sabbath or a myriad other things that Paul introduced from paganism into this myth of the martyr he created. It is likely Paul's incessant need to keep conferring with Jesus' apostles that got them all hunted down and killed by the Romans. After all ... Saul/Paul was a bounty hunter who originally sought to murder Jesus and all his followers for the bounty on their heads.

Until you can embrace the historical facts behind your own religion and accept it is a pagan myth... you have no room to criticize me for not knowing the Christian doctrine. You also have no idea of my background, my depth of study of Christian "doctrine", or any other measure by which to judge what I do know or do not know about Christianity. I'd say that I certainly know a LOT more than 99% of Christians know about their religion and it's history. And I have read all the Gnostic Gospels, studied them, as well as spent many years studying the Biblical compilation of texts, the Dead Sea Scrolls (which include Gnostic texts), as well as the studied the historical origins behind those books... who they were written by... when... and who they were written too... and why. That is more than I can say for most Christians.

Ryan Andresen had recently completed the requirements to earning his Eagle Scout award, including his final project

Young man you earned the badge etc. So go to scoutstuff.org or boyscoutstore.com and buy the badge. Tell them to go F*** THEMSELVES.

PrecededByNone

I love it when straight, white men try to assume an indignant air about being excluded from anything. To me, there is nothing funnier. Move over. You've been in charge for too long, and look how you've screwed everything up. If you don't get why there are separate clubs & organizations for women or minorities, and it's not "discrimination", .......

I love it when somebody who is either (1) not a straight white man, or (2) is a straight white man and feels guilty about it uses the fact that there has been (and is) injustice as the premise of an argument whose conclusion is that the fostering of inequality by some is sufficient to justify the fostering of inequality by others. I much prefer equality for all.

I suggest you shut your mouth and open a history book.

I reject your suggestion. And, although I know no more about you than you do of me, I suspect I know more about nhistory than you ever will.

I know are laws do reflect this, but if you read the Constitution carefully, the only authorized "Private" organization is religion. If you take a very purest view, religions are the only group who are allowed to discriminate. Individuals are allowed to discriminate, but when you become a group other than a religion, you could make a case that your groups is subject to all laws including anti-discrimination. Why we view "private" groups that are not religions as having the rights of individuals is really supported nowhere in the Constitution. This fuzziness about individual rights being applied to "groups" has created a lot of problems. The Constitution is pretty clear about religion, but not "clubs", companies, corporations and so forth. So how do we determine which type of groups are allowed individual rights other than religions?

As an individual, you are allowed to believe what ever you want to believe and if you personally wish to discriminate you are allowed that freedom. You can chose who to marry or who to associate with to a far higher degree than any group. The problems regarding individuals and discrimination occur when you become some sort of business or offer something to the general public. When you become some form of societal group, you are now longer an individual and are subject to additional societal restrictions. The Supreme Court has long supported this basic concept. But in parallel, we have also created some forms of groups that aren't religions and bestowed more individualistic rights upon them.

Strangely we often say that "private" groups are "private" if they aren't in any way taxpayer funded. That sounds reasonable on the surface, but if you think about it, in many ways "private" groups are indeed taxpayer "funded". They may not receive cash payments, but if they utilize an public facilities, they are in fact utilizing public funds. You could go so far as to say that if the group uses public roads, they are using public funds. An even stronger argument might be made for groups that are considered as "non-profit" organizations by the IRS. Non-profit groups generally don't pay taxes so in reality, taxpayers and "public funds" are "subsidizing" their lack of tax contribution.

As an individual, you are subject to taxes and you have individual rights to associate with whoever you chose and discriminate against whoever you wish as long as it isn't within some public forum. It seems we have developed a dividing line that has to do with being taxable or exempt like religions. But does a club or other non-profit fall into the same category as a religion as far as Constitutional rights are concerned? The whole concept of "non-profit" status is actually a relatively new concept that didn't exist during our founding when the Constitution was written. Now you can make a good case that religions being tax exempt could be Constitutionally justified, but what about other "non-profits"? Is the BSA or even a Political Action Committee the same as religion? I don't think so. But over time we have associated similar rights to them. In reality, aren't many of these non-profits actually businesses? Maybe they should really be subject to the same rules as any other business.

Because of the murkiness surrounding such "businesses", we get into all sorts of contradiction and conflict. For example, is a Catholic Hospital a business, or a Religion? By most measurement criteria, they are clearly businesses, yet they want and claim the rights of a religion. Seems to me that when you open your services to the public and you aren't a religion specifically, that you need to be treated as a business, particularly if there is some type of fee for service component involved.

If you are not a religious group as a direct part of a religion, how should you get the rights reserved for individual citizens or a religion? Seems to me that other than religions, there really are no "private" organizations that should be afforded the rights of an individual. I know this idea sounds very foreign only because we are very used to it being differently practiced. But that doesn't make it Constitutionally right. We had slavery for many years before we concluded that it wasn't right.

The BSA and other groups, may "legally" be getting away with discrimination, but if you examine it, there is really no Constitutional justification for it. Our country is more than two centuries old and it seems like we have allowed a large variety of discriminatory practices as a "right" to a variety of groups who are nowhere even alluded to in the Constitution. We may have been doing this for a long time, however that doesn't mean it is right. It's long since time that we should have cleaned up this problem.

What they did to this young man just isn't right. In all likelihood he would soon be leaving scouting anyway. For many kids they are growing up in scouting and it is big part of their lives. The fact that as he grew up he discovered his gayness really should not have impacted all the effort he put into it. Anybody who thinks that gays haven't been in scouting before, are fooling themselves, but for the most part, years ago there was an unspoken "Don't As, Don't Tell" policy. Back then, teenagers simply never "came out" for the simple reason that it was a different world then. Today, a lot of kids are far more mature about this than we were growing up in my day. I know 3 different kids that I grew up with who became Eagle Scouts who later in life revealed themselves to be gay. Two, I was pretty sure of but the third was a surprise. I doubt that there are any statistics on it, but many scouts in their later teens end up drifting away from scouting as their instincts drive them to girls, which you don't find in the Boy Scouts. Looking back I feel bad that these kids had to hide in the shadows and pretend to be something they weren't. To some extent I suspect the Boy Scouts actually offered them a cover. I can't imagine what hell these kids were probably going through and I'm sure it screwed up their lives. I am quite certain they didn't choose to be gay, but probably felt like they had some disability they needed to hide. For the most part, their peers are more understanding today, but policies like the BSA continues is just teaching these klds that they need to hide it and live a lie. I just don't see how that can be healthy.

Vexxa--

Jesus is the Christ and He lives...Obviously all of your "studying" Christianity has not done you much good. Still not sure why you wrote, "It's very odd that Christians will completely reinvent a story about Jesus giving approval for being a prostitute to a woman..." or "Jesus never admonishes the crowd to pretend like she is a virgin or pretend like her crimes never happened. However, this is what Christians teach the story to mean."

Not sure which "Christians" you are talking about, but I've never heard this before. I agree that Jesus never told the crowd to pretend that her crimes never happened. She sinned...and Jesus showed her mercy (forgave her), and then told her to forsake her sinful lifestyle. hmm...sinful lifestyle. I know it's a little cliche, but I've got to say it. Hate the sin, not the sinner.

Jesus never said "Love your neighbor as yourself, unless they are GAY"...you people that oppose and think you are better than everyone else AND quote the bible...make me sick. The boy scouts have lost all respect from me as do any organization or club that is INTOLERANT. American, land of the free...home of a lot of bigots and racists. Sick to death of it.

To all you who really, really, can't handle gays - I've been around for over 60 years, and I've known countless heterosexuals who have EXACTLY the same "sexual habits, practices, and desires" as gays. Many men openly boast about such things. The ONLY difference is that heterosexual people prefer the opposite sex. Same sexual practices, just with the opposite sex. The differences are far fewer than the similarities.

So where's the sin? If it's in "desiring" then we're all in deep. If it's in desiring sex then a vast majority of us are in deep. And if you loathe gays and the types of sex they have, then you better be sure you're not indulging in the same behaviors, or even fantasies of those behaviors. To note, those who are most paranoid about what gays do or might do are a) sorely misinformed, b) severely bigoted, c) forgot to take the plank out of their own eye before attempting to take the mote out of another's, d) scared of things they know nothing about, or e) all of the above.

I'm not sure if it's been mentioned, but the two biggest donors to the Boy Scouts are Catholics and Mormons. What's their stance on gays? And they have threatened to pull funding and their members if the BSCA didn't stick to the no gay stance. Just like Komen, the Boy Scouts have been taken over by the Jesus freaks and we already know that most Christians only want to help people like themselves, instead of all of mankind.

SteveMW - OMG! Not this crap AGAIN! Ok people...here's how this stuff works. YOU form a club...YOU make rules about YOUR club..

It'll keep coming up until the BSA drops their ignorant bigotry and enters the modern world.......just like they did a few decades ago in regards to having racially segregated troops.

Until then they'll keep losing members and corporate donors.

But given that the BSA is run by the intensely bigoted Southern Baptists and Mormons, it's not likely to change anytime soon. After all, these are the very same bigots who desperately clung to white supremacy long after it ceased to be acceptable in polite society.

But a spokesman for the Boys Scouts, Deron Smith, told NBC News in a statement that Andresen recently "notified his unit leadership and Eagle Scout Counselor that he does not agree to Scouting’s principle of 'Duty to God' and does not meet Scouting’s membership standard on sexual orientation. While the BSA did not proactively ask for this information

Being an Eagle scout is not just about earning merit badges - it is keeping the TENETS of the Boy Scouts.

If you dont LIKE the tenets, you are free not to join or stay. What you CANT do, is come to an organization, a PRIVATE organization, and then dictate the rules. The kid could have just kept his mouth shut - the Boy Scouts did NOT ask him anything - he volunteered. Yes, he has freedom of speech, and yes, the BSA has the freedom (upheld time and again by the courts) to set their own rules, EVEN IF DISCRIMINATORY. This kid shoved it in the BSA's face, and paid the price.

How many people here, would say it's OK, if , say, a Muslim went to Seminary school, graduated and insisted that the Vatican confer Catholic Priesthood status on him ? Why not ? He went to the same school as any other priest. Just because he believes differently, is that a reason to exclude him from the priesthood ? Isnt that discrimination ? Of COURSE it is...but it IS legal discrimination. That Muslim does not believe in the tenets of the Christian faith and the priesthood would be right to exclude him from a position that invited followers. Likewise, the BSA has the SAME right. A gay person is not something the BSA wants emulated.

AND, before you guys call me a "hater" or a "homophobe" , you dont see ONE place above where I take a position on the topic "gay" - this is simply a question of what IS and is NOT illegal discrimination, as well as taking a position on the issues of joining a private organization which has its own rules, then crying "foul" because YOU dont agree with those rules. Again, YOU have the right to leave; you do NOT have the right to change the organization to fit YOUR views. The people in the BSA who joined and agree with the policy have EVERY bit as much a right to do so..and those who dont agree, have the right NOT to join.

The just cause of civil rights do not flow to ONLY the "Aggrieved" party; nor is "ALL" discrimination illegal. While I cant discriminate on the bases of your SKIN color, it is perfectly legal to discriminate on the basis of your EYE color.

The BSA has rights, too. This kid, and those like him, would not hesitate to deny the BSA their rights, as well as the rights of those who belong and agree with their stance.

It's not the openly gay men who are the pedophiles. The ones we have to worry about are the ones that look "normal". Openly gay men usually have long term partners who are adults. Gay is NOT a synonym for pedophile (regardless of what the silly hypocrites would like us to believe). I feel very sorry for all of those who think there is only one true way of doing things; I figure they never get to try grilled chicken because their mom only made fried. And anyone who thinks sexual orientation is a choice probably put way more thought into it than I ever did. Wonder what that means?

I think the boy should get his badge, and BSA should not discriminate, but like the KKK, you are allowed to as a private org. We have women's groups, men's groups, groups for african americans, asians, white people, mexicans, etc. You ARE allowed to discriminate in a PRIVATE organization.

However, we also have free speech in this country. So if we feel an organization is acting bigoted and wrongly, we are allowed to call them out on it and not give them money. This debate will go one forever because the BSA constitutionally cannot be forced to allow in gay people. But people who are not bigoted will continue to call them out on their hate.

Salvia58-3789575

This boy's civil rights have been violated. Maybe the Boy Scouts should be allowed to ban blacks, or Jews, etc. ? This is ridiculous. Go to court. Inalienable rights. I am also confused as to why this sin in particular is so grievous. Would someone please explain the hierarchy of sins ? Is being gay a worse sin than lying ? Are we not all sinners ? Yet this sin is worse than others ? A hierarchy of sins is NOT in any bible. There is no hierarchy people. Get over yourselves and your phobias.

The boy has no civil right in a private religious organization. There was a supreme court case years ago where a woman was fired from a I believe it was a Catholic school.. She sued, but by law and the protection of the first ammendment , the church has the right to hire and fire based upon sexuality, and other reasons that would be unlawful to fire in todays work force. Also the supreme court backed up the firing of a gay leader years ago also.. The BSA does have the right and is protected by the first ammendment. You may not like it, you may hate them, but this country and its rights also need to be stood behind.

Vexxa

Defender Six - Before you criticize someone else about their failure to accept the TRUTH... here is some TRUTH for you.

The tale of Jesus is a copy cat story that identically matches dozens of other saviour myths that pre-date the existence of Jesus. The story is too complicated and exact to be a coincidence.

I have heard this argument many times.. It doesnt work.. You know how many times I have had to rebut people who used the mithra story to say that where Jesus came from. I will be more than happy to show you the major difference, and the small similarities. Also on a side note, being the first religion, or the first text does not make it the authentic one. As in If people write about Gods before the God of the Holy bible was written about, doesnt make that religion the right one. So being first doesnt count, being true counts.

It is amazing the ignoranc (from the French "ignorer", which means "to not know" or "to be unaware") of liberals and their arrogance in insisting on commenting on things that they know nothing about (hence their ignorance.)

It has ALWAYS been the policy of the Boy Scout to not allow homosexual be members at any rank. The posters here seem to think that this is some recent decision or that it is Bush's fault.

Each and every rank has a checklist of requirements to achieve that rank and each and every one of them has as its final requirement "Show Scout Spirit". If this boy is homosexual then he fails this requirement. So NO, he DID NOT EARN IT. PERIOD. End of discussion. Everyone that has ever joined a troop at any age knows this fact.

Also, the Boys Scouts have a series of awards that are essentially extra-curricular, for religious purposes. Like the translator award, they do not effect rank but are included as part of the regalia. The Boy Scout handbook CLEARLY indicates that there are such awards for all religions, and that INCLUDES, Judaism, Hinduism, Buddhism and Islam, so the comment about trying to force out all non-Christian - like any other liberal comment - is not in agreement with the facts.

The Boy Scout Handbook clearly states that it is easy to become a Scout but difficult to BE a Scout. To become a Scout requires an oath. By being homosexual this boy FAILED in his oath, therefore he is NOT a Scout and by no means should be allowed to attain the rank of Eagle.

And as for the comment about the Boy Scouts using taxpayer facilities. Many troops, like mine, are located in churches. If they are using schools in the like, it is for the convenience of the students that are members because they are already there, and it is easy for THEM to convene where they already are. It is not that the school is sponsoring them.

If a male child is epigenetically gay, he was born that way, fact. Homosexually is caused by the weak X chromosome from the Mother of the Child. It makes the fetus in the womb immune to the effects of testosterone. There is no religious debate, no debate has merit: in fact, Jesus states in Matthew 19:12 (when talking about straight marriage), clearly tells followers that some men cannot be married because they are eunuchs in the womb and do have have the requirement of marriage to a woman. So, Jesus and science agree, not the Jewish Law from the Old Testament, Jesus supersedes all law... Read, the Scripture, your Judgement is anti-Christ...

The BSA do not want gay people associated with their organization because we are the ones most likely to recognize and blow the whistle on child abuse, an issue (like the Catholic Church) the Scouts are being haunted with from their past.

You can tolerate gays or not. You can accept us or not. You can embrace us gay people or not embrace us. One thing you cannot do is work against a child who has earned his merit the honest way and by "honest" I mean he was truthful to his leader about his sexual orientation.

Being an Eagle scout is not just about earning merit badges - it is keeping the TENETS of the Boy Scouts.

Which tenet says you can't be gay?

A Scout is Trustworthy.

A Scout tells the truth. He is honest, and he keeps his promises. People can depend on him.

A Scout is Loyal.

A Scout is true to his family, friends, Scout leaders, school, and nation.

A Scout is Helpful.

A Scout cares about other people. He willingly volunteers to help others without expecting payment or reward.

A Scout is Friendly.

A Scout is a friend to all. He is a brother to other Scouts. He offers his friendship to people of all races and nations, and respects them even if their beliefs and customs are different from his own.

A Scout is Courteous.

A Scout is polite to everyone regardless of age or position. He knows that using good manners makes it easier for people to get along.

A Scout is Kind.

A Scout knows there is strength in being gentle. He treats others as he wants to be treated. Without good reason, he does not harm or kill any living thing.

A Scout is Obedient.

A Scout follows the rules of his family, school, and troop. He obeys the laws of his community and country. If he thinks these rules and laws are unfair, he tries to have them changed in an orderly manner rather than disobeying them.

A Scout is Cheerful.

A Scout looks for the bright side of life. He cheerfully does tasks that come his way. He tries to make others happy.

A Scout is Thrifty.

A Scout works to pay his own way and to help others. He saves for the future. He protects and conserves natural resources. He carefully uses time and property.

A Scout is Brave.

A Scout can face danger although he is afraid. He has the courage to stand for what he thinks is right even if others laugh at him or threaten him.

A Scout is Clean.

A Scout keeps his body and mind fit and clean. He chooses the company of those who live by high standards. He helps keep his home and community clean.

A Scout is Reverent.

A Scout is reverent toward God. He is faithful in his religious duties. He respects the beliefs of others.

The Scouts are NOT a Christian organization, even though originally they were. The Scouts claim that they are open to all religions. Soon after they were formed it was decided that simply believing in a higher power was all that would be required. There have been Buddhist Scouts since 1920. Many Buddhists don't believe in a supreme being. The reason the Buddhists were accepted is because they believe in a spiritual force.

Many religions accept gays, some flavors of Buddhism as an example.

Even many of the Christian faith welcome gays. Churches such as the United Church of Christ are very open to Gays. Some Lutheran branches are very accepting, same with the Quakers.

There are even churches that focus on being a place of worship for gays such as the Metropolitan Community Church.

Now let's go back to that Boy Scout Law:

A Scout is Reverent.

A Scout is reverent toward God. He is faithful in his religious duties. He respects the beliefs of others.

Why can't the leadership of the BSA follow their own law?????

Why do gays like to join organizations where they know that they will be turned away?

I don't go into a mosque and tell them what I believe as a christian and FORCE my way in...... why do gays think this doesn't apply to them?

It could be that the liberal left is too stupid to take its own advice. Show tolerance towards muslims and their beliefs, but incite hateful remarks towards christians who doesn't want your beliefs?

Whatever happened to the separation of church and state? Gays should learn to take their own advice and learn how to separate.

Lord Baden Powell, the founder of boy scouts, was a repressed homosexual.

Well here we are again. I thought we had this settled last time. Either the Boy Scouts of America has the right to not accept gays, or all the groups of gays have to accept non gays coming in and forcing their ways on them, but no the gay rights groups want it all. They want to have the right to dictate everyone else's lives and not have anyone else have rights. Their rights have to supercede everyone else's rights or its discrimination. I have gay and bi friends who agree with me as to how simple it is. The gay rights groups have by far enough money to simply start their own organization for gay scouts of america or whatever. Why not simply do this? I guess its hard to get sympathy that way because no one would bother them then.

In the end its another situation where they want to force someone that they dont agree with to change. They want us to accept them as they are, but then wont do the same. They call us names like homophobes, yet they are heterophobes. They want the right to be what they want, yet not give anyone else the right to the same. They want to force us to believe gay is ok, but wont accept that for most of us our religion doesnt believe that and evolution doesnt believe that so we shouldnt be FORCED to believe in it either.

How can you preach intolerance to us when so many of us have tried to be tolerant and then you are not? How can you preach acceptance, when so many of your crowd of supporters are christian bashers? Do you believe that being a hypocrite or in the company of them will win you support? I used to be much more tolerant of gays and gay rights until I was having it crammed down my throat, now I'm more ready for a fight. You want acceptance you say, but acceptance never has and never will come through force. Forcing your ideals on others will only breed resentment. Yes many religions dont agree with homosexuality, but if they are right that doesnt mean they have to be hateful to you, or bring it into your home, or walk around watching everything you do, where you eat, etc. The gay rights group wants to desroy chik-fil-a because of their stance, now the boy scouts, preachers, anyone that doesnt accept their ways and most of the time they can simply accept that not everyone believes its ok, but doesnt hate them, however they spew hate, preach hate and teach hate of those that dont obey.

You want to get my support of your rights its this simple.

Allow those that don't agree with you equal rights to not agree/accept, then I can stop fighting for the survival of my rights and beliefs and take a look at yours.

Jensen-576947

If a male child is epigenetically gay, he was born that way, fact. Homosexually is caused by the weak X chromosome from the Mother of the Child. It makes the fetus in the womb immune to the effects of testosterone. There is no religious debate, no debate has merit: in fact, Jesus states in Matthew 19:12 (when talking about straight marriage), clearly tells followers that some men cannot be married because they are eunuchs in the womb and do have have the requirement of marriage to a woman. So, Jesus and science agree, not the Jewish Law from the Old Testament, Jesus supersedes all law... Read, the Scripture, your Judgement is anti-Christ...

Which study are you referring to ? The one conducted by Dean Hamer at NIH ? Here is what I have found out about science in the last 15 or so years I been debating about it. It is always open for debate, it is always fallible, it is always influenced by biased personal opinions.

When doing a study , like another one that was done years ago with gay people examining brain size of gay men who also had died of HIV and compared them to hetero men , they find that in gay people the brain size was smaller in certain parts. Its studies like this I find incredible that they would even publish. They dont take into consideration that HIV has many weird affects on the body, as well as they should show in their studies that straight men can also have smaller certain brain sizes.

SO now you have this study with the genes, and look at this mess they caused.

Science is a great tool, but like any other tools on this world , a tool that can be used for Good, can also be used for doing bad things. This is Bad science, and we really need to step back and find some real studies.

As for Jesus, you make it sound like he was for homosexuality. Jesus made it quite clear that a Man and woman would leave their home to become one flesh.

Matthew 19:4-6

New King James Version (NKJV)

⁴ And He answered and said to them, “Have you not read that He who made^[a] them at the beginning ‘made them male and female,’^{[b] 5} and said, ‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’?^{[c] 6} So then, they are no longer two but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let not man separate.”

I dont see how any clearer this can be. Now jesus didnt directly condemn homosexuality but it is something you would infer when you say it was meant for man and woman to be together.

Here is the study I was talking about with dean hamer and the other one by levay

The most frequently cited study was conducted by molecular biologists at the National Institutes of Health under the direction of Dean Hamer. This study is currently under investigation by the federal Office of Research Integrity for possible scientific misconduct, because one of the study collaborators alleges that Hamer suppressed data that would have reduced the statistical significance of the reported results.

Hamer’s group examined DNA samples from self-identified gay men and other gay male family members. The researchers claim they have found a DNA segment, called a "marker," on the X chromosome, the chromosome men inherit only from their mother and not from their father. They say that most, though not all, gay men within a family share such a marker. (In a more recent study, they conclude that lesbian sisters do not share this marker.) They now hope that by defining this marker more closely, they will be able to identify a "gene for gayness" on the X chromosome.

One of the problems with their approach is that Hamer and his colleagues did not feel it necessary to check whether any of the straight men in these families share the marker in question. If even only a few of them do, it calls into question what the gene or the self-identification signifies. More recently, Hamer has tested this out, and the results do not change his interpretation.

But even more significant for Hamer’s studies is the definition of who is gay. Hamer uses the extremely conservative estimate of two percent for the prevalence of homosexuality among American men. Increasing this value to the usually accepted values of five to ten percent reduces or even eliminates the statistical significance of his results. The reason Hamer gives for his unusually low estimate is that he wants to work only with "real" gay men, that is, men who have essentially never veered from their preference for men in their sexual fantasies or activities. His definition does not take into account the large population of men who have sexual relations with men, but who do not identify as gay, or men who have had sexual relationships or marriages with women, or have fathered children, but now do identify as gay. If research on sexual orientation does not consider this diversity of sexual identities, the social relevance of this research is limited.

Hamer’s results remain controversial. An independent study of gay siblings did not reproduce his results, though the Hamer group now reports a second study which supports the role of a gene on the X chromosome in male homosexuality. But none of the results, including Hamer’s, support the claim that any single gene can determine sexual orientation.

Another study claiming that there is a connection between homosexuality and biology, by the neurophysiologist Simon LeVay, claims that a specific structure in the brain is smaller in gay than in straight men. The size of this structure in gay men, he claims, is more like that seen in heterosexual women – though in fact, he has no evidence regarding the sexual orientation of the women whose brains he examined. All of LeVay’s observations were made on the brains of cadavers, and his evidence about the sexual orientation and practices of the people in life is entirely circumstantial. Furthermore, the "gay men" all died of AIDS, which is known sometimes to affect brain structures. Another criticism of this study is that in some of LeVay’s "gay" samples, the structure was larger than in the "straight" ones, so that upon inspection, there is no basis for deciding whether a given person in life had been "gay" or "straight."

I am Catholic. I believe that gays are born that way. I do not believe that gays are pedophiles.Pedophiles are basically straight persons who have a predilection toward children of one sex or the other. They are not the same.

I am afraid of pedophiles because they hide in the weeds and pounce on unsuspecting young humans. They hide in plain sight and we do not recognize what they are attempting with our preschool and school age children.

Gays on the other hand usually try to pair with one of their own, sometimes in a relationship that is monogamous as would any straight couple. But they do not prey on kids. Period. Divorce yourself of that idea, because you are in error if you believe otherwise. Their difference in mental affiliation for a sexual partner does not include fantasizing about children.

I would be more likely to suspect a scout leader who brings individual kids to his home rather than the kid who is trying to fit in and share experiences with children his own age. The attention is on the wrong end of this horse. Give the kid his badge. He has earned the right to it.

judi fermanichI am Catholic. I believe that gays are born that way.

Im not bashing your belief, everyone is entitled to it. The evidence is inconclusive about people being born gay. Read above in my post.

I do not believe that gays are pedophiles.Pedophiles are basically straight persons who have a predilection toward children of one sex or the other.

Anyone can be a pedophile, it doesnt discriminate. Gay, straight, Bi, tranny, black white, eskimo, russian, japanese, chinese, south american .. it doesnt matter. Every group is capable.

Problem is people will accuse one group of having more pedophiles. But this is a poor view that is used by many people in their argument. When trying to compare say hetero vs homo cases of pedophilia, people will say that there are a lot more in the hetero side. How ever this isnt realistic. You need to take into consideration that the gay population is about 2 % of the rest of america. So when using a statistic like 100 cases reported in gay community vs 10,000cases reported in the hetero community. The comparison still isnt realistic because of the vast amount of people your comparing between hetero and homo.he

The Kid may deserve to some, but also he didnt meet all the criteria of being a scout. As irrational many people would see it, it still is a right the BSA has, and is protected from being sued, or charged, due to the first ammendment protecting their religious rights, and the supreme court have already backed them up.

Wow! Throw the Boy Scouts and gays into a conversation and watch the fur fly. I agree with both sides of this debate. First, if you want to establish a private organization and you feel the need to exclude certain types of individuals, that should be your right. On the other hand if you are given lots of public benefits like being given first chance at national park areas, then I have to deny that as one of the owners of that park. Otherwise, we would have to give the same benefits to the Boy Scientists who exclude bigots, religious nut jobs, and people with IQ's less than 50.

Marmaduke, I can see your point relative to percentages and the values they represent overall. But I stand by my belief that the boy joined the BSA as a tiny child, followed the rules as he understood them and earned his badges in good faith. He deserves to be an Eage Scout and I am incensed that this Christian organization is choosing to deny him based on information gathered after the fact.

If they want to deny his ability to be a scout leader in future based on this new or additional information, that is their right. But not to deny that he delivered on all their requirements that result in an Eage Scout badge. That is more unAmerican than Christian.

And Marmaduke, we are not discussing marriage and the value represented. I agree with you on that particular point. St Paul was the one who set gays apart much after Jesus left us. We are discussing a young man who wanted to be with his peers as a child and was one of them up until denied an earned badge. Yes, at some time he may have discovered his sexual orientation. However, that does not mean he did not work for and earn what he has garnered. Denying him that badge is wrong.

Although I personally think their wrong in their opinion, the bottom line is this.

Private organization.

Private rules.

Thats just the way it is.....

ScreamingForVengeance

Although I personally think their wrong in their opinion, the bottom line is this.

Private organization.

Private rules.

Thats just the way it is.....

Sounds convincing, but simply not true:

!.

The BSA was granted a Congressional charter in 1916, now codified as 36 U.S.C. Chapter 309,^[39] stating that their purpose is to:

promote, through organization, and cooperation with other agencies, the ability of boys to do things for themselves and others, to train them in scoutcraft, and to teach them patriotism, courage, self-reliance, and kindred virtues, using the methods that were in common use by boy scouts on June 15, 1916.

2. The Supreme Court granted a Constitutional Shield to the Boy Scouts in the Boy Scouts of America v Dale. Dissenting from the opinion: Stevens ended his dissent by noting that serious and "ancient" prejudices facing homosexuals could be aggravated by the "creation of a constitutional shield."^[19]

3. Finally, since the founding of the BSA in 1910, thePresident of the United States has served as the organization's honorary president during his term in office.^[40]

I know of no other "Private Organization" with protection from all Three Branches of Government.

Jensen-576947

ScreamingForVengeance

Although I personally think their wrong in their opinion, the bottom line is this.

Private organization.

Private rules.

Thats just the way it is.....

Sounds convincing, but simply not true:

!.

The BSA was granted a Congressional charter in 1916, now codified as 36 U.S.C. Chapter 309,^[39] stating that their purpose is to:

promote, through organization, and cooperation with other agencies, the ability of boys to do things for themselves and others, to train them in scoutcraft, and to teach them patriotism, courage, self-reliance, and kindred virtues, using the methods that were in common use by boy scouts on June 15, 1916.

A charter means nothing any more. It was nothing more than an honorary title. Kind of like being a 10th degree black belt. All the degrees you get after your first couple are nothing more then honorary. A charter does not in any way legally bind the BSA to any rules of the government or do they need to adhere to any rules set by government or state.

I have a very detailed post I wrote about this in another thread I will have to dig up when I was trying to get some other person who thinks the BSA are bound by civil government rules.

Thank you. I wasn't going to bother arguing the facts.

I have 2 kids who are Scouts, both of which will make Eagle. Both have been Scouts since Grammer School. We have several Gay Scouts in our Troop and we are one of the largest Troops here in Palm Beach County.

Right or wrong, we take the stance that...we don't know. It's a non issue for us as a Troop, but we aren't blind to the stance of BSA. I don't know. It's a weird situation for us, because these are good normal kids who just happen to be gay. And frankly, both showed the signs really early in life. So it's never been a secret to anybody involved. As large as my Troop is, almost all came directly from our Pack. (Which is the largest in Palm Beach County.)

So most of our kids have grown up together. Yes, we have some kids and parents who have problems with it. But frankly, we've let them know that if they somehow got these kids kicked out...well, it wouldn't go well for them either. Up to now -knock on wood- we haven't had any problems.

I don't know. It's a difficult situation and it is one we've discussed as a Troop, even though we aren't supposed to. It's one of those deals where we would like to take a stance, but can't because we don't want to lose our Charter, which we absolutely would. For many of us, Scouting is the only real time we get with our children. I know it is for me. Hell, even my daughter is an "Honorary" member of our Troop. (@!$%#, she's a better Scout than 1/2 the Boys and she thinks the Girl Scouts are "stupid".)

In the end, it is what it is......

I found my post I made about the charter. I wanted to make sure I showed my evidence to back up the claim.

A congressional charter is a law passed by the United States Congress that states the mission, authority and activities of a group. Congress issued federal charters from 1791 until 1992 under Title 36 of the United States Code.

The relationship between Congress and the organization is largely a symbolic honorific giving the organization the aura of being "officially" sanctioned by the U.S. government. However, Congress does not oversee or supervise organizations with the charter (other than receiving a yearly financial statement). Amid dissatisfaction with the system, the subcommittee of the House Judiciary Committee decided not to consider applications for further charters in 1992, though several were still granted thereafter.^[1]

Eligibility for a charter is based on a group’s activities, whether they are unique, and whether or not they are in the public interest. If this is the case, a bill to grant a charter is introduced in Congress and must be voted into law.

There have been questions about the federal government’s power to manage corporations who have received a charter.^[2] Because of questions on who is responsible for the activities of these entities, the issuance of charters was officially stopped in 1992, though some exceptions have been made. The granting of a charter does not include congressional oversight.^[3]

is largely a symbolic honorific , -- As I said, it was a symbol of honor.

officially" sanctioned by the U.S. government, my point is Sanctioned, not funded BIG difference, and lets look what sanction means..

sanctioned Give official permission or approval for (an action)

Verb

Process

Eligibility for a charter is based on a group’s activities, whether they are unique, and whether or not they are in the public interest. If this is the case, a bill to grant a charter is introduced in Congress and must be voted into law.

There have been questions about the federal government’s power to manage corporations who have received a charter.^[2] Because of questions on who is responsible for the activities of these entities, the issuance of charters was officially stopped in 1992, though some exceptions have been made. The granting of a charter does not include congressional oversight.^[3]

^{You see, it was stopped because the Government knows they have no power what so ever over someone who has a charter. A charter means nothing in the terms of control, just an honorary thing, like getting your 12 degree in Black belt.}

So as you can see, you can drop the false idea of the BSA being bound to any one or anything in relation to the government. You may not like it, but the BSA is going to keep on doing what they and so many others stand for and believe in. Thank God for people who still stand for their rights to have a choice in morality and biblical beliefs.

"Boy Scouts of America believes that homosexual conduct is inconsistent with the obligations in the Scout Oath and Scout Law to be morally straight and clean in thought, word, and deed. The conduct of youth members must be in compliance with the Scout Oath and Law, and membership in Boy Scouts of America is contingent upon the willingness to accept Scouting’s values and beliefs.

BSALegal.org published these policies until February 2010, when it was removed from their website.^[27] In 2000, the Supreme Court ruled in Boy Scouts of America v. Dale that Boy Scouts, and all private organizations, have the constitutionally protected right under the First Amendment of freedom of association to set membership standards.^[28]

It reversed a decision of the New Jersey Supreme Court that had determined that New Jersey's public accommodations law required the BSA to readmit assistant Scoutmaster James Dale, who had made his homosexuality public and whom the BSA had expelled from the organization.

Chief Justice William Rehnquist's majority opinion relied upon Roberts v. United States Jaycees, 468 U.S. 609, 622 (1984), in which the Supreme Court said: "Consequently, we have long understood as implicit in the right to engage in activities protected by the First Amendment a corresponding right to associate with others in pursuit of a wide variety of political, social, economic, educational, religious, and cultural ends." This right, the Roberts decision continues, is crucial in preventing the majority from imposing its views on groups that would rather express other, perhaps unpopular, ideas. Government actions that may unconstitutionally burden this freedom may take many forms, one of which is "intrusion into the internal structure or affairs of an association" like a "regulation that forces the group to accept members it does not desire." Forcing a group to accept certain members may impair the ability of the group to express those views, and only those views, that it intends to express. Thus, "freedom of association ... plainly presupposes a freedom not to associate."

However, to determine whether a group is protected by the First Amendment's expressive associational right, it must first be determined whether the group engages in "expressive association." After reviewing the Scout Promise and Scout Law the court decided that the general mission of the Boy Scouts is clear: "[T]o instill values in young people."^[9] The Boy Scouts seek to instill these values by having its adult leaders spend time with the youth members, instructing and engaging them in activities like camping, fishing, etc. During the time spent with the youth members, the Scoutmasters and assistant Scoutmasters inculcate them with the Boy Scouts' values—both expressly and by example. An association that seeks to transmit such a system of values engages in expressive activity.

• First, associations do not have to associate for the "purpose" of disseminating a certain message in order to be entitled to the protections of the First Amendment. An association must merely engage in expressive activity that could be impaired in order to be entitled to protection.
• Second, even if the Boy Scouts discourages Scout leaders from disseminating views on sexual issues, the First Amendment protects the Boy Scouts' method of expression. If the Boy Scouts wishes Scout leaders to avoid questions of sexuality and teach only by example, this fact does not negate the sincerity of its belief discussed above.
• Regarding whether the Boy Scouts as a whole had an expressive policy against homosexuality, the Court gave deference to the organization's own assertions of the nature of its expressions, as well as what would impair them. The Boy Scouts asserts that it "teach[es] that homosexual conduct is not morally straight," and that it does "not want to promote homosexual conduct as a legitimate form of behavior,"^[10] While the policy may not represent the views of all Boy Scouts, the First Amendment "does not require that every member of a group agree on every issue in order for the group's policy to be expressive association."^[11] The Court deemed it sufficient that the Boy Scouts had taken an official position with respect to same-sex relationships. The presence of an openly gay activist in an assistant Scoutmaster's uniform sends a distinctly different message from the presence of a heterosexual assistant Scoutmaster who is on record as disagreeing with Boy Scouts policy. The Boy Scouts has a First Amendment right to choose to send one message but not the other. The fact that the organization does not trumpet its views from the housetops, or that it tolerates dissent within its ranks, does not mean that its views receive no First Amendment protection.^[12]

The decision concluded:

We are not, as we must not be, guided by our views of whether the Boy Scouts' teachings with respect to homosexual conduct are right or wrong; public or judicial disapproval of a tenet of an organization's expression does not justify the State's effort to compel the organization to accept members where such acceptance would derogate from the organization's expressive message. While the law is free to promote all sorts of conduct in place of harmful behavior, it is not free to interfere with speech for no better reason than promoting an approved message or discouraging a disfavored one, however enlightened either purpose may strike the government.^[13]

Marmaduke49

I found my post I made about the charter. I wanted to make sure I showed my evidence to back up the claim.

All claims are not fact by definition. Fact: The BSA policy is discrimination; that is, it excludes a class of people based on opinion, not fact. While you claim that there is no genetic evidence for being gay, that is your single opinion. While, there may be people who agree with you, but they are not geneticists.

Fact: The BSA policy is discrimination; that is, it excludes a class of people based on opinion, not fact

Its a right that religious based organizations have and are protected by law, and Constitution. Can you think of endless examples we can use as discrimination but the point being is that some times it is acceptable ? People under 21 not getting into bars, people under 18 not buying porn, Men not being allowed to go to an all female college, men on the pga not allowed to tour on the womens PGA, not being able to buy beer unless your 21 or older, not being able to drive a car until your 16 and need to take a test. How about when a person tests for a police exam and is not hired because of their weight or they didnt pass the test.

Do you realize that places have criteria and standards already set in place, and if people dont meet those standards its not called discrimination.

While you claim that there is no genetic evidence for being gay, that is your single opinion. While, there may be people who agree with you, but they are not geneticists.

And yet I showed that there were issues with the study done with the genes, and how the science has come under scrutiny. There is no gay gene

And yet I showed that there were issues with the study done with the genes, and how the science has come under scrutiny. There is no gay gene

WRONG. You only showed that some groups have issues with the studies done with the genes, and how the "science has come under scrutiny" by such groups, because the studies do not support their biases.

Of course they have not found a "gay gene" -- and they have not found a "straight gene," either. Sexual orientation, whether one is heterosexual, homosexual, bisexual, or asexual, is formulated by a combination of genetic, biological, hormonal, and environmental factors. Just because something is genetic in nature does not mean there is a particular gene for that trait.

As usual, Marmaduke, your "research" falls far short of the mark -- most likely because you only look for results that affirm your own bigotry.

Marmaduke49 flagged as myth believing ignorant troll.

I am amazed how moderators allow greg to even post , never have i seen him even give a side to his opposing view, all I have ever seen is his personal biased and hatred attacks against people. Greg if it was up to me I would give you a ban for your personal attacks.. I dont know why I even expand your comments, because I know all you do is spend your time just attacking people and never giving any evidence for your views.

Back your claims with your evidence, stop attacking people. What you do is the pure definition of Troll on forums.

ill post it again here are the studies and why they are flawed.

When doing a study , like another one that was done years ago with gay people examining brain size of gay men who also had died of HIV and compared them to hetero men , they find that in gay people the brain size was smaller in certain parts. Its studies like this I find incredible that they would even publish. They dont take into consideration that HIV has many weird affects on the body, as well as they should show in their studies that straight men can also have smaller certain brain sizes.

SO now you have this study with the genes, and look at this mess they caused.

Science is a great tool, but like any other tools on this world , a tool that can be used for Good, can also be used for doing bad things. This is Bad science, and we really need to step back and find some real studies.

As for Jesus, you make it sound like he was for homosexuality. Jesus made it quite clear that a Man and woman would leave their home to become one flesh.

Here is the study I was talking about with dean hamer and the other one by levay

The most frequently cited study was conducted by molecular biologists at the National Institutes of Health under the direction of Dean Hamer. This study is currently under investigation by the federal Office of Research Integrity for possible scientific misconduct, because one of the study collaborators alleges that Hamer suppressed data that would have reduced the statistical significance of the reported results.

Hamer’s group examined DNA samples from self-identified gay men and other gay male family members. The researchers claim they have found a DNA segment, called a "marker," on the X chromosome, the chromosome men inherit only from their mother and not from their father. They say that most, though not all, gay men within a family share such a marker. (In a more recent study, they conclude that lesbian sisters do not share this marker.) They now hope that by defining this marker more closely, they will be able to identify a "gene for gayness" on the X chromosome.

One of the problems with their approach is that Hamer and his colleagues did not feel it necessary to check whether any of the straight men in these families share the marker in question. If even only a few of them do, it calls into question what the gene or the self-identification signifies. More recently, Hamer has tested this out, and the results do not change his interpretation.

But even more significant for Hamer’s studies is the definition of who is gay. Hamer uses the extremely conservative estimate of two percent for the prevalence of homosexuality among American men. Increasing this value to the usually accepted values of five to ten percent reduces or even eliminates the statistical significance of his results. The reason Hamer gives for his unusually low estimate is that he wants to work only with "real" gay men, that is, men who have essentially never veered from their preference for men in their sexual fantasies or activities. His definition does not take into account the large population of men who have sexual relations with men, but who do not identify as gay, or men who have had sexual relationships or marriages with women, or have fathered children, but now do identify as gay. If research on sexual orientation does not consider this diversity of sexual identities, the social relevance of this research is limited.

Hamer’s results remain controversial. An independent study of gay siblings did not reproduce his results, though the Hamer group now reports a second study which supports the role of a gene on the X chromosome in male homosexuality. But none of the results, including Hamer’s, support the claim that any single gene can determine sexual orientation.

Another study claiming that there is a connection between homosexuality and biology, by the neurophysiologist Simon LeVay, claims that a specific structure in the brain is smaller in gay than in straight men. The size of this structure in gay men, he claims, is more like that seen in heterosexual women – though in fact, he has no evidence regarding the sexual orientation of the women whose brains he examined. All of LeVay’s observations were made on the brains of cadavers, and his evidence about the sexual orientation and practices of the people in life is entirely circumstantial. Furthermore, the "gay men" all died of AIDS, which is known sometimes to affect brain structures. Another criticism of this study is that in some of LeVay’s "gay" samples, the structure was larger than in the "straight" ones, so that upon inspection, there is no basis for deciding whether a given person in life had been "gay" or "straight."

@

A Veteran

Hell, instead of trying to join/stay in an organization that doesn't want you, start a new organization named the Gay Scouts of America and allow ANYBODY to join. Problem solved and I'll bet there would be more donations than the kids could spend.

Look I can't agree more, but sometimes, it isn't a big enough headline to go do something else, if you know what I mean. Too many people want their own reality TV show these days.

Marmaduke where do you get off? I've been a member for over 2 years have more vineacity than you. You have only be a member for 4 months. Really? All it takes is a quick look at your postings to see you are not interested in engaging in discussions about each article but to provided misinformation that promotes your believes in myths (religion). They are a distraction and undermine the valid discussions. You are constantly in Science and Space articles posting your nonsense.

I would have banned you after the 5th post.

I have been a member of news vine a lot longer , my first post I ever made was in 2008 , but on an closed down account of mine. My hotmail email was hacked and I never could get it back. I have been debating people in here for a long long time. This website, comment thread, msn is more favored to the liberal side. So I already am at a disadvantage not having more support from fellow like minded people.

Second, I have every right to be here, and express the freedoms of my speech and views. While the moderator can indeed ban me for a violation of rules, i.e. name calling, threats, I have done no such thing.

My contributions are not negative, or counter productive, mainly because my criticism targets the assumptions of sciences opinions. Even if I was wrong, there is absolutely nothing wrong with showing all views of any topic. By reviewing everyones view it allows people to see every side the topic and debate. I would never shut anyone out for their view. Just as most of the people I listen to in the academic field would encourage that Creation or ID be taught along with Evolution. We are not afraid of allowing evolution being taught, why should we be scared ? If I was a teacher or professor I would encourage my students to look at ALL views and critique them accordingly based on their scientific discoveries and or research. I would never make a student believe in ONE WAY. Its like making people into lemmings, drones, no longer to be able to critically think any more. Science needs to be challenged all the time, and to see if it holds up against the vigorous testing of Good observational empirical Science.

That is my right Greg.

Just as most of the people I listen to in the academic field would encourage that Creation or ID be taught along with Evolution.

I don't know who you have heard that from but it should not be taught in a science class. It should be allowed but not to be on the same level as science.

Science needs to be challenged all the time, and to see if it holds up against the vigorous testing of Good observational empirical Science.

You continue to assume that science is full of holes and corruption. Taking science as a whole your assumption is foolish. Unlike religions with their static state.

The problem is you're intentionally providing misinformtion in "liberal side" science and space forums. You have no intention of provided engaging comments related to the articles. That is why you are in here. I know it and you know it.

I don't know who you have heard that from but it should not be taught in a science class. It should be allowed but not to be on the same level as science.

Why not greg ? Its done by real scientists using the same science. Would you say that to the founders of most of our sciences we have now, whom were christians or believers in a God themselves ? There is absolutely nothing wrong with having a belief in God and still using science. Some sciences are bent because of views and assumptions.

You continue to assume that science is full of holes and corruption. Taking science as a whole your assumption is foolish. Unlike religions with their static state.

I dont assume anything Greg. I just use science to defend scientific views, or use science to show the errors or flaws with some peoples thinking. The evidences are always determined by peoples bias and assumptions.

The problem is you're intentionally providing misinformtion in "liberal side" science and space forums. You have no intention of provided engaging comments related to the articles. That is why you are in here. I know it and you know it.

If I post misinformation , then I am sorry you see that. How ever I do in fact post science done from scientists who do criticize what ever topic we talk about in science. No one is ever totally honest, and people tend to add or leave out tid bits of important information. I dont think people mean to be dishonest in science, its due to their personal opinions on a lot of the evidences. BOTH sides are always using the same information, the same evidences. No side has anything unique to their own. It always comes down to how it is interpreted.

I also have every right to put my input in any section on any forum.

Its done by real scientists using the same science.

Whats done by "real scientists"? Creationist think it is a science. Never has never will be.

Would you say that to the founders of most of our sciences we have now, whom were christians or believers in a God themselves ?

No, Most probally believe in a diety but to assume all of the great thinkers in science were christian is not being honest. Besides what would you expect them to aligned with during the period they lived in?

There is absolutely nothing wrong with having a belief in God and still using science.

No there isn't but they are having to balance contradictions if they do since religion is based on a belief in the supernatural and science doesn't consider anything but the natural world.

Some sciences are bent because of views and assumptions.

And which ones are "bent"?

I dont assume anything Greg.

Right. Nothing like assuming you can equate Creationism with science and some sciences are "bent", and I can't see through your BS.

I just use science to defend scientific views, or use science to show the errors or flaws with some peoples thinking.

Use science to DEFEND scientific views. LOL you're trying like hell to tear down Evolution with a myth (religion) and you're now telling me you're using science to do this? Give me a fking break.

The evidences are always determined by peoples bias and assumptions.

No. Again.. wow I have discuss this with you over and over and over and over. Scientific evidence is acquired by means of observation or experimentation. There is no such thing as some person or group of scientist proclaiming a position that cannot withstand the scrutinizing of science. Your unwillingness to learn how science operates is unbelievable.

If I post misinformation , then I am sorry you see that. How ever I do in fact post science done from scientists who do criticize what ever topic we talk about in science.

I'm suppose to believe your intentions are not to post misinformation? Then as many people including myself have pointed out the error you continue to show up with these same kind of posts?

Whats done by "real scientists"? Creationist think it is a science. Never has never will be.

I can use another word greg. People who believe in God who are scientists, just like our founding fathers of science. If creationist offends you, there a better word.

No, Most probally believe in a diety but to assume all of the great thinkers in science were christian is not being honest. Besides what would you expect them to aligned with during the period they lived in?

I expect them to be extremely brilliant in their era. Some people are genetically gifted to be great thinkers and really respect knowledge and take all ideas into account when coming to conclusions. People of today are Book smart, great number crunchers, but lack the wisdom of the great thinkers of our past.

Use science to DEFEND scientific views. LOL you're trying like hell to tear down Evolution with a myth (religion) and you're now telling me you're using science to do this? Give me a fking break.

And as i have demonstrated Darwinian evolution in the aspect of natural selection, mutations and adaption to environment, still does not show species evolving into whole other new species. His finches beask may have changed in size and shape, but they were still finches. The beaks also returned to standard beak size when conditions returned to normal and this is a process that didnt take a great length of time,.

No. Again.. wow I have discuss this with you over and over and over and over. Scientific evidence is acquired by means of observation or experimentation. There is no such thing as some person or group of scientist proclaiming a position that cannot withstand the scrutinizing of science. Your unwillingness to learn how science operates is unbelievable.

And I have told you over and over again there is no way, none what so ever that there can be possibly any observable , empirical science and data on rocks that were assumed to been made millions of years ago. As i said when a rock is formed there are compounds, chemicals, isotopes all of that stuff that has a certain amount of presence in rocks when they are formed. Not all rocks have the same amounts when formed, so it would be impossible to determine that rocks we look at today and are assumed to be millions of years old, are actually millions of years old because of not knowing how much decay has taken place since their creation. Also we have no way to know how rapidly such decay takes place over such a long period of time. Yes you can draw some conclusion that if we can see the decay of a rock we see how, and determine that it is decaying at a rate of X for the past 30 years, we can say that has been constant for the last 500 million years. That is an assumption, and nothing observational and empirical about it, since no one has been around for 500 million years to determine the exact affect of nature on the elements in rocks.

I'm suppose to believe your intentions are not to post misinformation? Then as many people including myself have pointed out the error you continue to show up with these same kind of posts?

Greg if your view was concrete and didnt have issues with it, then you wouldnt see me here with information from scientists who show the issues. I to play devils advocate with creation, and the bible, but as one of my friends who is a respected professor at a college in Virginia, has shown me over and over again, there are answers. I criticize the same thing you do greg, because there is a sinful part of me that wants to reject the bible and notion of God, but in the end, the answers provided are indeed sound and if anything also give other views to just naturalistic world view thinking.

I do know this, there are only 4 views.

Either your right, and I am wrong about every thing.

I am right and you are wrong about every thing.

Were both wrong about every thing.

Were both right about everything.

Even if I wasnt a believer in God, I still would see the issues with a Goo to human macro evolution, or a universe that just comes into being from nothing. Even if if there is no God , then the universe has always existed , eternally. Since time is nothing more than a word we use just as a measurement, it could be argued if TIME itself even really exists. SO you could say there never was a time when nothing existed, because time doesnt really exist. You could say that the universe is an eternal universe that expands and then it gets so big it collapses on itself. IF i didnt believe in God that would be my next belief, because one thing I will always reject is a universe coming into being , from nothing. That is impossible and the most illogical thinking ever known to man kind.

While I think this is off topic just some food for thought.

Dr. Maciej Giertych,

At Oxford he received a BA and a MA in forestry.
At Toronto a PHD in tree physiology.
At the Agricultural University of Poznań he received his Habilitation degree. It is a European degree above a PHD.

"My primary objection as a geneticist was to the claim that the formation of races, or microevolution, as it is often referred to, is a small scale example of macroevolution – the origin of species. Race formation is, of course, very well documented. All it requires is isolation of a part of a population. After a few generations, due to natural selection and genetic drift, the isolated population will irreversibly lose some genes, and thus, as long as the isolation continues, in some features it will be different from the population it arose from. In fact, we do this ourselves all the time when breeding, substituting natural with artificial selection and creating artificial barriers to generative mixing outside the domesticated conditions.

The important thing to remember here is that a race is genetically impoverished relative to the whole population. It has fewer alleles (forms of genes). Some of them are arranged into special, interesting, rare combinations. This is particularly achieved by guided recombination of selected forms in breeding work. But these selected forms are less variable (less polymorphic). Thus what is referred to as micro-evolution represents natural or artificial reduction of the gene pool. You will not get Evolution that way. Evolution means construction of new genes. It means increase in the amount of genetic information, and not reduction of it."

From the Foreword he wrote to Gerard J. Keane's book, Creation Rediscovered

Thanks JOregon, Giertych is the kind of wack jobs that you guys listen too. Sad. What a fraud.

So when scientists who view your views, its science, but when scientists also use the same science that show a different view, they are now whack jobs. You ever think that people really need to use real science and quit the bias assumptions ? I would be happy and accept if your side would just say we dont know, we give it our best guess, its not fact, but its our best opinion. We could be wrong, but we feel we are right. That I could accept, but when your side says its all fact and truth, then we have a serious issue. The issue is once again assumptions based off of non observational empirical data.

http://scienceblogs.com/goodmath/2008/04/03/liars-no-information-allowed/

Greg

The reason I brought up Dr. Maciej Giertych was because of your comment:

Whats done by "real scientists"? Creationist think it is a science. Never has never will be.

Dr Giertych is a scientist.

One of the problems with the Creation/Evolution debate is the extremism (both ways).

In your link, Mark C. Chu-Carroll (a computer scientist) criticizes a Geneticist for his science. To tell you how much he actually researched this he said:

The clip is Ben Stein interviewing a guy named “Maceij Giertych”,
who is allegedly a population geneticist. (I say allegedly because looking
the guy up, he appears to be an agricultural biologist studying tree-growth
patterns in forests.)

If he had actually spent any time at all looking into this he would have known that before he retired Dr Giertych was the head of the Genetics department at a University. Genetics is his field. Computers is Chu-Carroll's field. Giertych has very good credentials.

Dr Giertych came by his belief through the science and not through his religion. He is Roman Catholic and the Catholic church believes in evolution, (that should bring up some red flags right there).

Dr Giertych has said he has gotten more heat and criticism from his own church than he has from his peers. For that matter he also gets a lot of heat from Laymen such as Mark C. Chu-Carroll.

The point is there are Scientists that believe in creationism, even though most do not.

I prefer to be open to all things unless there is concrete PROOF one way or the other. So far there is none. I realize there are some strong pieces of evidence, but sometimes evidence isn't what it appears to be. Dr Giertych just gives us a different set of eyes.

Greg-2438150

Thanks JOregon, Giertych is the kind of wack jobs that you guys listen too. Sad. What a fraud.

Would you say that John Sanford is a whack job too , who published many papers in the the scientific field, was a professor at Cornwell univeristy.

He is famous for a lot of his genetics work and made the gentic Gun.

He used to be an atheist, but as time went on and he got deeper into genetics, his view changed. Its actually really amazing to hear him discuss the DE-evolution of man kind.

But since he has credentials its all irrelevant because he has an opposing view to yours and the main stream view, hence, hes another whack job, atleast now he is, but not X amount of years ago when he was an atheist LOL ..

He also discusses " little dirty trade secret among geneticist about the devolving of everything. But hey what doe she know right ? Hes been there, done that.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_C._Sanford

Yes Giertych has the credentials but has moved out of science into the political arena and creationism which is NOT a science. As I see it Giertych is a myth believing right-wing homophobe that has lost all respect from the science community.

He was into the Creationism way before he went into Politics. He was still a scientist then.

If you can't discredit him for his science there is no shortage of ammo in the political field.

But then he got all his degrees in real science not political science.

I believe that now he is just plain retired.

Can you say the same about the guy i posted about ? He was an scientist and atheist, now hes a scientists and a believer in Christ and knows all the issues with genetics, and like he said the dark trade secrets of the field

He did not complete the requirements. He must complete a service project for school, church or community. While the wall is a neat idea for an art project, I hardly consider it a service rendered for the good of the community.

@TransCalifornia How you doin!!!

TransCalifornia

Of coarse you have that opinion.

Pre-op, Single Trans girl who has seen enough hate and bigotry to make HER want to stand up and speak out against it.

If any Eagle Scout is reading this and is thinking about returning their badge due to the BSA's policy against gay people, instead, think about sending it to this young man. He both wants it, and deserves it. And it will show that he has support from people who arent so hateful.

Maybe poor Ryan Andresen didn't know the Boy Scouts had have rules or a policies barring homosexuals. Maybe poor Ryan Andresen didn't know he was gay until July.

No. Neither of those are true. He didn't "earn" any award (Eagle) because he violated BSA Policy. He only "came out" so he could sue. He and his family are more interested in National publicity than they are in abiding within the established rules and policies. THey are more interested in making a quick buck than they are about and "Eagle Award".

I agree, he earned it. I thought the BSA would have moved past this by now. What they are doing claiming they are a private organization and want to discriminate Gay people, a short time people of color (Asians, Africa American and Latinos) had the same problems in private organization's. People need to stand up against the shallow minded people.

Barf!

maybe it is time to change the name to Bigots of America!

Rules, schmules, the kid earned it, he deserves it, and he's a better representation than his leader. At least the kid is honest!

Like liberals that want to force everyone to think like them with a court order?

How does one "force" another to "think" any certain way?

You can make laws regarding the actions you take, based on your thoughts. But it is impossible to legislate thoughts.

For instance: You may hate black people. It is illegal for you to act on that hate and attack them, or refuse to hire them based solely on their race . . . but you may still keep your thoughts. You may still "think" about how much you hate them.

Or a better example: You obviously hate liberals. You may "think" about killing them. It is illegal for you to act on this, but your thoughts are still your own, and you may continue to "think" this way.

It is odd when people complain about being forced to think a certain way. It is physically impossible to force the thoughts of another.

Why don't we just start another youth achievement program (like the Boy Scouts) that *doesn't* discriminate? Then everyone could switch over.

This is WRONG! This kid is entitled to the award that he earned. Boycott the Boyscouts! OUTRAGEOUS!

SCOUTING FOR BOYS: The gay is in the title.

Well, well, well. Here is what we want you to accomplish. It may take you 10 or 12 years, but it will show yourself and the world what a good, ethical, and moral person is all about. It will also prepare yourself to be successful in the world, and part of that success will come in the form of how you treat and what you do for others.

All done?

Good job.

Now, go home. We lied. We even lied to you after you made it public about your sexual orientation.

We just flat-out lied.

Oh well. We, as an organization, can lie if we want. Even if we have trained you for the last 11 years to be truthful to yourself and to others. What can we say (shrugged shoulders)? We lied....

Walk tall, son. Walk proud, son. Walk with dignity. Walk with pride. And most of all, live your life helping others, all while knowing that there are people and organizations out there that do not respect freedom and the right to live and let live. Live your life not in judgment, but with the energy and enthusiasm that makes a life worth living. You do not need the Boy Scouts' approval to do this. You only need your approval. You know what is right and what is wrong, and even though you cannot change the world, you can change part of it --- and you will...

Peace.

Ilion, NY

I was proud when I earned and received my Eagle award, but today I am more embarrassed by it than anything. Today, I am unwelcome to take any role in the organization because in the years since I turned 18, I have abandoned religion and become an atheist. The scouts claim they do not discriminate against any religion, but they do openly discriminate against atheists and agnostics just as they discriminate against homosexuals on religious grounds. Their tolerance is a sham, and their intolerance will ultimately be their downfall as they fade into irrelevance. It pains me to say it, but good riddance. In their present state, they do more harm than good for society, and perhaps they always have. I have sorrow only for the thought of what scouting could have been, that which it will almost assuredly never be.

Bigot or not (me), this fellow is not entitled to the scout's biggest award, the Eagle. Scouts pledge what they know to be their honor, which is the scout's code. To wait until the last minute to openly declare this scout is a homosexual is absent any honor. Sorry gays. You lose.

Good for the Boys Scouts (BSA). The boy violated BSA's well known and long time established organization policy on the subject. Telling people that rules and laws do not matter, is wrong. To me it has zero to do with the kid's alleged sexual choice. A private organization should NOT be forced to change their rules so long as they do not conflict with current local, state, or federal laws and this policy does NOT.

I will donate additional money to the BSA this year. If homosexuals want to start an organization for homosexual young adults that want to do similar activities of those of the BSA - go do it. I will send them a donation as well.

It is 'a religious program'. They should be able to have 'their own rules'. If someone does not like the rules, join a different program. We don't have to all 'become the same'. We all have choices, he chose to follow the rules, now does not want to? Should not change rules, boys were getting molested, wake up please!

Once again, the Boy Scouts miss the boat and an opportunity to demonstrate leadership, acceptance, and TOLERANCE. @ KEM- how fantastic it must be for you to be all knowing.....did he tell you why he came out? Do you know anything about his journey? I'm guessing not. I don't claim to know either, but I'm guessing it wasn't an easy decision. I'm from a town not too far from Moraga and am shocked this happened there. What a disappointment. How wonderful for him that he has supportive parents, but BSA should give this wonderful boy what he's EARNED!

Why is it important for him to be gay at 15 years of age? Can he not wait til college when such decisions are appropriate to make? Jesus, I swear no one listened to Chef.

@slimyone Transcalifonia was a dude man. Thats why she is "trans".

AngelicaS

This is WRONG! This kid is entitled to the award that he earned. Boycott the Boyscouts! OUTRAGEOUS!

Except, he DIDN'T earn the Eagle. He violated his Vow, and broke the BSA Rules. He is not any more entitled to the Eagle Award than you are!

If the young man knew he was gay before he came out and knew the policies he was violating the first law of the Scout Law and was not Trustworthy he also violated the Scout Oath which starts out with: On my honor.. and therefore should not reive the award. Being ann Eagle Scout is not just earning the badges and perfoming the requirements in the book, its following the rules of the organization. If he was truly a scout and living under "On my honor" truthfully, the minute he realized he was gay and couldn't meet the requirements of the organization, his "honor" should have forced him to resign.

The Constitution was not set up to protect gays,in those days quweers and witches were burned at the stake. Being Gay does not give you a right to force your way of life on the majority or force organizations to change their rules for you.The Gay lovers in Washington are destroying the constitution with their left way of life and the quality of life the builders of America gave US. Go back in the hole you belong in.

Evidently his gay money was good enough to take though. I was in the Boy Scouts. None of it is free.

TO: KEM-792636

Please TELL ME WHERE IT SPECIFICALLY SAYS: I VOW TO NOT BE A HOMOSEXUAL??????

The Boy Scout Vow:

I promise on my honour
that I will do my best
to serve God and my country,
to help everybody any time,
to obey the Boy Scout Commandments

The Boy Scout Commandments:

1. A Boy Scout is honest.
2. A Boy Scout is faithful and reliable.
3. A Boy Scout is always willing to help.
4. A Boy Scout is a brother to all Boy Scouts and a friend to all people.
5. A Boy Scout is tolerant and chivalrous.
6. A Boy Scout is protecting plants and animals.
7. A Boy Scout is obedient of his own free will.
8. A Boy Scout is always of good cheer.
9. A Boy Scout is simple and saving.
10. A Boy Scout is clean in his thoughts, words, and deeds.

D Buck-2239568

"you wonder why teenage suicide is so high look in the mirror. you mess with their heads while they are to young to understand."

I doubt gay teenagers commit suicide because of those who are trying to help them with self-acceptance and self-esteem, or any political agenda. (I've yet to meet very many high school-aged teens who care about politics in any form.) It has more to do with bullies and bigots making gay teens' lives miserable because of an immutable personal characteristic.

KEM: You are totally out of line "He only came out so he could sue" You don't know why he came out. He could have easily stayed in the closet until he got his badge, but he chose to come out, and his troop was ok with that - the Counsel was not. He may not sue, or he may choose to - that is his perogative. They knew, most of the time when someone is gay, the people around them know that they are gay long before they come out. It didn't matter to the local troop. Of course, his being gay COULD be blamed on him being molested by someone in scouting. Then, I guess, it would have to be their problem.

I am an Eagle Scout and I believe if Ryan has been in scouting since the age of 6 and has completed all

the requirements to attain the rank of Eagle Scout. He should be awarded the rank and congratulated for

all the years of work it takes to achieve this award. Give Ryan his deserved award of Eagle Scout BSA!

takeit2367

TO: KEM-792636

Please TELL ME WHERE IT SPECIFICALLY SAYS: I VOW TO NOT BE A HOMOSEXUAL??????

I don't believe I said he vowed not to be Homosexual. He vowed to "obey the Boy Scout Commandments." What about the Policy and Regulations of the Boy Scouts? Is it really reasonable to think that he obeyed the commandments while breaking the rules? Homosexuals are not accepted as Scouts, and of course, BSA is not required nor obligated to award any badge to a Scout who breaks the rules.

D Buck,

What do you mean, why do gay people have to use a kids organization as a battle ground? Its not like gay men are trying to join the boy scouts. The boy scouts are discriminating against the same men that they say they teach tolerance to. We are trying to help the innocent boys in the organization. The same boys you are trying to demonize.

In Canada the Boy Scouts do not discriminate against gays , lesbians , or athiests. This organization is not a religious cult organization in Canada as it is in the U.S. Someday it will change for you , but as of now it will not help this young boy who worked hard to earn his Eagle Scout award only to be turned down by a bunch of narrow minded bigots.

debnran

Of course, his being gay COULD be blamed on him being molested by someone in scouting. Then, I guess, it would have to be their problem.

So, you are offering a libelous statement that the poor lad didn't know of his gayness until "someone in scouting" molested him? Are you implying that he enjoyed your percieved molestation so much that he became gay? I didn't think it worked that way.

Still, the young man broke the rules, and believes he should be rewarded in spite of that. I simply believe that if you wish to join the Souts, and continue to recieve awards for accomplishment, you must pursue these awards while abiding by the rules.

It is far easier to believe that he and his family have an ulterior motive in accepting all this publicity now. Again, did he only three months ago discover his gayness? If not, why wait until now to "come out"? Why didn't he "come out" when he was only half-way toward his Eagle? Or 3/4 of the way? No, he waited until he had "satisfied" all but one requirement before he "came out". The last remaining requirement was to be straight.

takeit2367

TO: KEM-792636

What part of GOD dont you understand? We are not talking about Satan. We are talking about GOD. You know, the Christian GOD. If that GOD commands his followers NOT LAY WITH A MAN AS HE WOULD WITH A WOMEN, THEN HOW DO YOU SERVE HIM AND DISOBEY HIM AT THE SAME TIME????????????

LOOK AT THIS!! READ IT AND UNDERSTAND IT.

The Boy Scout Vow:

I promise on my honour
that I will do my best
to serve God and my country,
to help everybody any time,
to obey the Boy Scout Commandments

TO SERVE GOD. DID YOU READ THIS??? TO SERVE GOD TO SERVE GOD TO SERVE GOD TO SERVE GOD TO SERVE GOD TO SERVE GOD TO SERVE GOD. WAKE UP PINHEAD.

Mock "Narrative Structure":

Setting: stubborn reality.

Mood: crap, shock, "outrage", with bonus face-palms.

Tone: (no comment)

Archetypes: stupid bigots, poor gay boy, denied award...etc etc etc.

Conflicts: 1. Man vs. man: bigotry, looking down on a specific group of people.

2. Man vs. society: man is controlled by the values, opinions, and traditions of the society.

3. Man vs. fate: well...you know.

Theme: 1. Some people like to spew crap about others or do crap to others just because they can.

2. LIFE ISN'T FAIR.

3. Discrimination will ALWAYS exist in some dumb form.

What age does Boy scouts begin? 5....6...8.? Should they have to start interviews at that early age to see if the are Pre-Gay? What rules did he break? What if says.....I was just kidding.....then when he gets his bag. He can say he was lying.

First off congrats to the young man for completing the "book requirements", these are skills he can use for his lifetime. As a Scout leader I applaud his efforts and wish him success and do not care if he is gay or not, that is his choice to live with. However I can not abide that he broke the rules of being trustworthy, honest, and especially Duty to God. These are the foundations that BP founded the Scouting movement on, not open for "interpretation" these are the guidelines. Some folks on this page has questioned why the BSA is "discriminating" or are "holding on to old values" and how we should "live in the now"....sorry folks, if you have those questions you just don't get it; so the BSA should turn a blind eye to its values and Christian backbone (for those who don't believe this I have BP's biography and can quote chapter page and verse for you if you desire). Why should we as Christians lower the standard and our values because "you don't like it? Fine, if you don't like it, join or form another group, send your hard earned money elsewhere; as for me and my family we serve God and will send our yearly donations to the BSA as we always do. Again, congratulations to this young man for completing the book work, its a shame he didn't stick to the ethical side of the equation as well.

Getmadstaymad

takeit2367

TO: KEM-792636

What part of GOD dont you understand? We are not talking about Satan. We are talking about GOD. You know, the Christian GOD.

I think you are preaching to the choir! I believe we are talking about the same God, but many will cry that their god(s) are just as important, and some of theirr gods support homosexuality. Your point is correct though - If you do not wish to serve God, the God of Abraham, the God of Moses, and the God of David, then don't join the Boy Scouts of America! Join the Canadian Boy Scouts, or the Mecca Boy Scouts, or the Hindu Scouts.

I am not being mean, but I really don't have to be tolerrant in this either. BSA has rules. They are a Private Organization. They may not force you to join, but they CAN require you to obey the rules.

Precisely what "Vow" did he break Kem (#2.23)??? What Vow did he recite stating that he would not receive Eagle Scott recognition if he was gay????? Please provide a quoted "Vow".

KEM

You are not a real Christian. You are who Jesus warned us against. Please stop spreading your lies and false God.

to Getmadstaysmad:

Dear Dr. Laura:

Thank you for doing so much to educate people regarding God's Law. I
have learned a great deal from your show, and try to share that
knowledge with as many people as I can. When someone tries to defend
the homosexual lifestyle, for example, I simply remind them that
Leviticus 18:22 clearly states it to be an abomination. End of debate.
I do need some advice from you, however, regarding some of the other
specific laws and how to follow them.
1. When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a
pleasing odor for the Lord - Lev.1:9. The problem is my neighbors.
They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?
2. I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in
Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair
price for her?
3. I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in
her period of menstrual cleanliness - Lev.15:19-24. The problem is,
how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offence.
4. Lev. 25:44 states that I may indeed possess slaves, both male and
female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend
of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can
you clarify? Why can't I own Canadians?
5. I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus
35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated
to kill him myself?
6. A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an
abomination - Lev. 11:10, it is a lesser abomination than
homosexuality. I don.t agree. Can you settle this?
7. Lev. 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I
have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading
glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle room
here?
8. Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair
around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev.
19:27. How should they die?
9. I know from Lev. 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes
me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?
10. My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev. 19:19 by planting two
different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing
garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester
blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really
necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town
together to stone them? - Lev.24:10-16. Couldn.t we just burn them to
death at a private family affair like we do with people who sleep with
their in-laws? (Lev.20:14)

So.. do you get to pick and choose what parts of the Bible you are going to follow??

AngelicaS -

vow

noun
1. a solemn promise, pledge, or personal commitment: marriage vows; a vow of secrecy.
2. a solemn promise made to a deity or saint committing oneself to an act, service, or condition.
3. a solemn or earnest declaration.

Now, did he not make "a solemn promise, pledge, or personal commitment" to obey the Boy Scout of America rules? Don't their rules bar homosexuals? Didn't he break his vow?

(Here's a hint. The answer to all three questions is - "yes")

Indie071

KEM

You are not a real Christian. You are who Jesus warned us against. Please stop spreading your lies and false God.

Kindly, or even unkindly (I don't care which) tell what you base your statement upon?

To Getmadstaysmad

takeit2367 and Idie071

All of us are sinners (you in your own ways) and the rest of us in our ways. Now then if you are really clean, of any sin...then JUST THEN cast the first stone...(I have the feeling you are not capable or clean).

-"Poor of you Corazin and Bethsaida"- the punishment for you will be way harder than it will be for TIRO and SIDOM (Corazin/Bethsaida : represent biblical cities for fanatics) (TIRO * SIDOM represent sexual deviations..) In other words GOD will punish HARDER fanantics like yourselves...

MATHEW 11:21 - I dare you to read...the foot notes...

Kindly, or even unkindly (I don't care which) tell what you base your statement upon?

The teachings of Jesus.

Indie071

Kindly, or even unkindly (I don't care which) tell what you base your statement upon?

The teachings of Jesus.

Could you maybe give me a clue as to what I have done or said that go against the teachings of Jesus?

Jlaiz

I'm actually not a fanatic, I am simply illustrating to KEM the hypocrisy of his own statements. He made the claim that other "Christians" are not real and do not follow the true God. So, in response, I made the same claim to him.

I have also studied the bible enough to know many verses that prove he is not a "real Christian". That is the trick with the bible, you can pick and choose whatever passage you want to support whatever claim you make.

Although you should know, the more you study the history of Christianity, the more you learn that is represents the will of man, and not any God. But it does make for an interesting fairy tale.

KEM-792636 - So you are saying that it's okay to be a hater and violate someone's civil and human rights because the real crime is in standing up for your beliefs and fighting against oppression. You are in the wrong country obviously.

So you are saying the founding fathers were just trying to milk their persecution for all it's worth by creating a world wide scandal and demanding money and sovereignty from England as well as using their plight to raise money and military support from the rest of the world.

By your backward reasoning we should put all victims in jail and give awards and medals to criminals.

Could you maybe give me a clue as to what I have done or said that go against the teachings of Jesus?

You can start with the fact that Jesus himself NEVER said a single word regarding homosexuals. From there I suggest you review a few of his other teachings. Start with the story that spawned the phrase "he who is without sin, cast the first stone". What is the message? Then review the good Samaritan, and how you should treat people you do not agree with. Review his warnings regarding church leaders. Read the "love thy neighbor" passage, over and over.

Then, once you have done all that, read the parable about focusing on the splinter in your neighbors eye, while ignoring the log in your own. Then we can discuss the underlying message there.

That should get you on a good start.

KEM-792636 - You ask to be given a clue as to what teaching of Jesus you are violating. The easier answer would be to tell you what teachings that you are keeping... that answer would be NONE.

Love thy neighbor as thyself.

If a person asks for your shirt give them your coat too.

Judge not lest ye be judged.

Let those without sin cast the first stone.

Thou shalt not bear false witness against others. (by falsely treating gays as if they hurt people)

Here is what Jesus specifically says about YOU:

"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but
only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven"

Jesus spent his life speaking out against you and your ilk. I'm not even a Christian and even I know the value of what Jesus taught as being superior to bigotry and hate that you are spreading.

Vexxa

Do not forget the parable of focusing on the splinter in your brothers eye, while ignoring the plank in your own. That specifically deals with Christians, like KEM, who focus on the sins of others while ignoring the sins of themselves.

That parallels nicely into "judge not" and "he who is without sin cast the first stone."

It is interesting, Jesus NEVER said anything about homosexuals, yet spoke constantly about not judging others. Yet now, Christians constantly judge others and focusing on homosexuality . . . the complete opposite of what Jesus taught.

Jlaiz - Maybe if you actually learned the correct translations for the Hebrew you would know how ignorant it is to twist Leviticus into homophobic hatred of gays. The problem is you have complete ignorance of ancient history and the background of these ancient texts that you conveniently invent the pretense that they are speaking to you today or that you know how to translate the ancient Hebrew yourself when you do not.

Besides that... Since when did God personally appoint you as his mouthpiece?

I don't see your God striking anyone down. I see your God patiently accepting everyone without intervening at all. What I see is you trying to tell your God what to do. I hear you having the audacity to speak as though you are God or that you have authority to speak as God for him. I also hear you commanding God in how to feel about others around you.

The one who should be most worried about the wrath of God is someone who is pretending to be appointed by God to act as God and tell other people what God feels without his authority. If there really is this God you believe in... Then THAT would be the ultimate betrayal and is the equivalent of calling him useless and setting yourself up above God as his controller.

Foster1118 - However I can not abide that he broke the rules of being trustworthy, honest, and especially Duty to God.

Sounds like you must be a Mormon or a Southern Baptist since you have a bigot for a god.

Most Christians don't share your homophobia and have a loving god who accepts gays and straights alike.

My question for you is why you think your religious views should trump those of this particular scout?
I thought the BSA was non-denominational, and simply required that you have an imaginary friend?

@ Skrekk...those arent real Christians. Real Christians have to obey the Bible no matter what. It says Gays are abominations. So you expect them to accept abominations? Any "Christian" that does isnt one at all.

He Will Rule,

Really. The Bible says ALL KINDS OF THINGS we no longer accept. The Bible speaks casually of incest, polygamy, infanticide, incest, and slavery. It doesn't mean we think any of those things are okay anymore.

Any "Christian" who judges and discriminates isn't one at all.

HeWillRuleAsGod...those arent real Christians.

Episcopalians aren't "real Christians"?

Real Christians have to obey the Bible no matter what. It says Gays are abominations.

I thought the BSA simply required a belief in an imaginary friend, not a belief in a particular orthodoxy or even a belief in any sort of Christianity.

It also sounds like you're an Old Testament, cafeteria Christian......most likely a Southern Baptist.

The ban on gays is in direct link to the possibility of being an easier victim of sexual predators of children posing as Scout Leaders. And please remember that almost all sexual predators are heterosexuals even though they prey on victims of the same sex.

Welcome to the USA - home of the one dimensional thinkers.

When are you Christians going back to where you came from - everywhere you go, trouble follows.

Jlaiz at (#2.42),

• absolutely brilliant! right wing, christian fanatatics just got owned! it's amazing how much STUPID S#IT is in Leviticus. It's amazing to me that anyone, let alone all the Christian fundamentalists and their loony followers, can actually believe in and abide by what they read in the bible. we're talking about stuff written ages and ages ago, by pre-enlightened people. today, we know that the world is NOT flat, we know that sneezing is not caused by demons, we know that keeping and owning slaves is not okay, and we know a host of other truths that people back then could never begin to fathom. by the way, who in the hell wrote Leviticus anyway? How can it be construed as the word of God anyway? Did Jesus write Leviticus, NO! It, along with every chapter of the New Testament was written many, many years after the death of Jesus, by morons who never even met him. Christians suck, and I hope that everyone of them who arrive at the "pearly gates" gets a rude awakening when they find out that NOBODY in "heaven", especially the big G and big J, give two flying farts about being gay, straight, or anything in the middle!

these are all issues that none of these kids should have to face till they become adults, people are a disease. you wonder why teenage suicide is so high look in the mirror. you mess with their heads while they are to young to understand.

These "kids" are facing those issues because they are gay. They're not saying to themselves "I'm gay, but I chase the opposite sex until I'm 21." They wouldn't have a high suicide rate if the right-wing stopped trying to make them feel evil and guilty for being gay.

Denying promotions is great for America and for our young people. We should not send a message that same sex is normal or a way of life in our country. They should not only be denied promotion, they should be kicked out of the scouts.

Reprehensible and disgusting. It goes against the very values of the organization.

@Vexxa and Indie 107: I think Jlaid misunderstood what yall were saying. And in turn you all misunderstood him or took offnese accordingly butit was a huge misunderstanding. However all three of you have some very valid points that I agree with to a certain extent.

However I do agree with that post that Jlaid posted with all the Levitical quotes. It was true and it was real. It was also hilarious because so many religious fanatics often forget that. I was dyin laughin reading that post because I was reading with the sarcsam in my voice. Jlaid you told the truth. That is real. It was funny as hell to me. Religious fanatics need to go back and reread that whole entire passage. And they also need to read that ADULTERY and DIVORCE is also an abomination. Adultery was punhisable by death for the husband and the woman he was doing it with.

And this is also what Jesus was saying to the Pharaseeds and the Saduceeds that brought the woman to him for her to be stone. He told them that they intententionally twisted the old testament scripture to fit their beliefs. He said that the Lord called for both of them to be stoned, not just the woman. And they had only brought the woman. And then he said Let he who is without sin cast the first stone. This is for the one that stated we constanty twists this scripture when the church I grew up in, no preacher ever twisted this scritpure to meany any of the the things you claimed we meant it to mean.

We correctly interpreted to mean not to condemn anyone or judge anyone for we all sin and fall short of the glory of the Lord. In other words we all have things that we all need to work on. None of us a are sin free. It did not mean to sweep what she did under the rug and pretend she was a virgin. Nor not to talk about her sin as you incorrectly put it. Let me set it straight for you since you obviously dont have clue: It meant that we are not supposed to or condemn anybody. Point blank period. That means yeah, we are not supposed to discusss her sin as we have on our sins and that would aslo be gossiping and juding. Thats why Im taking this time to clarify. I dont know what church or churches you have been too, but please go to church that teaches the real truth. Thank you.

ANOTHER THING, PLEASE QUIT GROUPING ALL CHRISTIANS TOGETHER. FOR IT IS NOT FAIR. NOT ALL OF US ARE RELIGIOUS FANATICS. AND NOT ALL OF US AGREE WITH THE REPUBLICANS. SO PLEASE STOP IT. ITS NOT FAIR. I AM A CHRISTIAN AND I AM NOT A RELIGIOUS FANATIC. AND I DO NOT AGREE WITH RELIGIOUS FANATICS.

Kinda irks me that people feel like things should be changed over being gay. First, being homosexual is ideological in nature, and has virtually no biological basis. Science has never conclusively proven, or agreed, that homosexuality is natural. Any assertation to that end is mainly possibility. There's no third sex, gay gene, or anything to substantiate a desire for the same sex, and homosexuality has virtually no functional purpose. Before people get lost on the semantics, sexual orientation is a matter of personal perception. It's vacilating and unfixed. Besides that, you can't change your sex or the sex you were created for.

Why is he entitled to have them make an exception on the basis of his percieved sexual orientation? What's the difference between this, and stripping a scout leader you find out is a pedophile? The issues isn't the willingness of the other perticipant, but what the individual in question's behavior stands for. That's like a competitor found guilty of steroid usage, complaining he didn't get a medal. "But he worked his behind off".... Shoulda read the fine print. It's their award. The scoutmaster did what he felt was right. It's his decision, and he has to live with it. With gay people, generally, everything always comes back to homosexuality anyway. It's better for him not to sign off on it, then for it to be about how gay people are so this or that.

Good job BSA. Do not roll over and give up your values for the anything goes crowd. Rules are rules. What do you not understand about that?

Sorry, but the kid broke the rules against homosexuals being in the scouts, so the award wasn't earned under honest pretenses. Let them create the GSA for these people who want the same experience for homosexuals, and they can do their own awards, maybe with a cute daisey attached.

TransCalifornia

Did he complete the program or not...

Give the young man what he EARNED! Who cares what his sexual identity is.

#2 - Thu Oct 4, 2012 3:17 PM EDT

Actually, NO, he didn't meet the requirements to get Eagle. The article is missing a lot of information, some of which happen to be the rest of the requirements for achieving Eagle. It isn't a "gimme" that you get Eagle just because you complete merit badges and a service project. There is also the personal character element. When he decided to tell the BSA that he doesn't agree with elements of the Scout Oath and Law, he proved that he couldn't live by them. Demonstrating that you live by the Scout Oath and Law is one of the requirements for getting Eagle. You might want to read the requirements:

http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/BoyScouts/AdvancementandAwards/eagle.aspx

He's already received exactly what he earned.

In a few short years the time in the scouts will be a distant memory. I had a few good times, but was mostly picked on, laughed at, and punched. I sold the most in a fundraiser, and was ridiculed for that. By scouts AND scout leaders. I went to camp two summers for two weeks at a time. Had the tent pulled down on us at night and struck by the pole and almost knocked out. It was mostly normal teenage pranks but it was a huge pain in the butt. I didn't even attempt the Eagle because we moved and I said, enough is enough. I wouldn't call it the worst experience of my life, but it was definitely forgetable, and it will be for this man too.

Good luck in your future. I realize the scouts may have been important to you and all, but you will find that there are WAY BIGGER things in life that are WAY MORE important!

First, being homosexual is ideological in nature, and has virtually no biological basis.

And your proof for this is...?

Of course, you don't have any -- it doesn't exist.

Science has never conclusively proven, or agreed, that homosexuality is natural. Any assertation to that end is mainly possibility.

Actually, they done both: first and foremost, the fact that it has been documented in approximately 1,500 animal species (besides humans) proves that it is not only biological but natural -- and that is NOT "possibility," but FACT.

There's no third sex, gay gene, or anything to substantiate a desire for the same sex, and homosexuality has virtually no functional purpose.

There is no "straight gene," either. As far as "functional purpose" is concerned, do YOU only have sex for procreation? (Although homosexuals CAN and DO procreate.)

What's the difference between this, and stripping a scout leader you find out is a pedophile?

You need to learn about "legal consent," and why pedophilia/child molesting is illegal, while homosexuality is not.

Gays need to learn that the world does not revolve around them.....Sorry Gays..... you lose this one. This organization can't allow you to circumvent their rules even if you don't agree. They are not getting any taxpayer funds on this one, so technically if you don't fit their bill, they don't have to let you in.

Second, the minute this kid knew he was gay , he should have quit. The reason is because he could no longer obey the rules of the organization.

Unhappy-1583758,

Lord Baden Powell, the founder of boy scouts, was a repressed homosexual.

Jo-An-4354969

Unhappy-1583758,

Lord Baden Powell, the founder of boy scouts, was a repressed homosexual.

• !

#2.72 - Sat Oct 6, 2012 6:38 AM EDT

He wasnt the founder of it, he influenced it though.
http://gayscribe.com/scoutingfounder/

Lets say he is gay, and he was the founder. Some people who are gay do not like their lifestyle, and see the issues with it. This could be something he easily could had done. Juist like a few days ago, that guy of some popularity, I cant think of his name, but didnt hemake some claim that he didnt like being raised by two parents of the same sex ? Or felt it was best that he had a mom and a dad. Can you imagine what kind of ruckus this would start in the gay community ? One of their own, going against what they believe and what the best family setting is and that is a traditional family.

He wasnt the founder of it, he influenced it though.

Yeah, he was actually the FOUNDER! He started it in England, so obviously not the "of America" part, but the scouting part! Both of my parents were scout masters, and all of us kids were raised in that environment. My brothers were cubs, and scouts, I was a brownie, and a girl scout.

Lets say he is gay, and he was the founder. Some people who are gay do not like their lifestyle, and see the issues with it.

Yes, so they HIDE their true self, they MARRY people of the opposite sex, even have children. Then lead a double life, screw up, not only their own lives but the lives of all of the people they LIE to.

Why do homophobic people find lying to others so appealing?

BTW, most "gay" people come from hetrosexual parents...

NO @!$%#, REALLY!

hard to believe so many people take the side of the gay kid , america is in real trouble if the posters in defense of this kid are serious ? wow what weirdos lolololol

Weirdos?

LOL...intolerant, judgmental, ignorant fools....

THAT is what is wrong with some Americans!

Sure hope you have no children.

How sad, #2.75 that you do not practice the tolerance that Jesus preached. He would be shaking His head at you, I think. Jo-An has the right of it. And that is truly a sad state of affairs.

Yes, weirdos..... You don't join a church expecting to become a priest and NOT believe in God. This is exactly what that kid was doing. He joined the BSA and knew that he could not live up to the expectations of an Eagle Scout.

What was this kid thinking? The minute he knew he was gay, he should have resigned. If you are just in an organization but don't believe what it says, then it shows your loyalty is false. I believe this kid was false in his loyalty to the organization and should have resigned.

Unhappy

He joined when he was 6.

WHERE does it say in the Boy Scout laws you can't be gay?

It is the Organization that is false because they won't even follow their own laws.

A Scout is Reverent.

A Scout is reverent toward God. He is faithful in his religious duties. He respects the beliefs of others.

The Scouts do not respect the beliefs of others.

"A Boy Scout is obedient of his own free will." In this Boy Scout "Commandment" alone the refusal to give the boy the medal is debunked and the "No Gays" ruling of the National Council is contradictory to its own "Commandments"

By the Way whatever happened to: " A Scout is, TRUSTWORTHY, LOYAL, HELPFUL, FRIENDLY, COURTEOUS, KIND, OBEDIENT, CHEERFUL, THRIFTY, BRAVE, CLEAN and REVERENT"? Have our children become so simple that they now need explanations of the basic morals of life? Explanations with twists and embellishments that change and specify some of the ORIGINAL rules of Scouting; AN ORGANIZATION THAT ORIGINALLY FOSTERED AND EVEN PROMOTED TOLERENCE OF OTHERS BELIEFS.

So tell me? Are the BSA going to deny every athiest and agnostic an eagle award? Or does it only apply to that which we are born with, and NOT our own personal decisions? If you apply this precedent; then apply it to ALL.. not just a select few.

I also submit that this boy DID complete his duties to achieve the award. He proved himself to be all of these things including reverent. He was reverent in respecting others beliefs; he should get the same in return.

TransCalifornia

...Are the BSA going to deny every athiest and agnostic an eagle award?

Atheists and agnostics are incapable of taking the Scout Oath or abiding by the Scout Law, due to the elements concerning doing one's duty to God. Therefore, atheists and agnostics aren't really compatible with upholding the values and beliefs of the BSA. So they would not be eligible for membership, nor for the Eagle Scout rank.

I also submit that this boy DID complete his duties to achieve the award. ...

#2.81 - Tue Oct 9, 2012 3:41 PM EDT

Then your argument would be incorrect. Please see post #2.68 for details, as you seem to have missed it.

No; I DID see it. And I still feel the young man proved himself worthy of the award he met every requirement. To punish him for his thoughts or feelings is just "Big Brother". On the other argument.. so you're telling me there is NOT ONE agnostic or athiest in the BSA? Really? Wow; now
THAT'S unbelievable quality "christian recruiting."...

You're full of it. Agnostics exist in every walk of life. I don't need hard evidence.. just go anywhere and ask people if they believe in god...

The boy deserves what he EARNED.

Matthew 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Matthew 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Matthew 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

The Anti Gay group really have no interest in doing the will of God because they wish to Judge others. They claim they know Him, but few do.

The Gospel was never about pointing out the sins of others. It has always been a very simple gospel.

Romans 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

Not gays, ALL, have sinned. There has never been a command to point out the individual sins of others.

The Gospel continues. a payment is required for sin. The payment is eternal death. A wage is a payment:

Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

The reason why eternal life is available is because the payment has been made.

1 John 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

It is the blood of Christ that made the payment for MANY people.

Hebrews 9:28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

Christ took upon himself the sins of those he came to save, and made the payment for them.

The anti-gay folks are hung up on judging individual sins and don't realize the position they are in.

Luke 6:37 Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven:

That is today's religious post for those that feel their particular doctrine gives them the right to judge those outside the body.

TransCalifornia

No; I DID see it. And I still feel the young man proved himself worthy of the award he met every requirement.

If you saw that post, then you know that he didn't complete requirements #2, 6, and 7, so your sentiment that he "met every requirement" isn't based on the facts or logic.

To punish him for his thoughts or feelings is just "Big Brother".

So standards, requirements, and oaths mean nothing to you? Fortunately, you are not in charge. And by the way: "Big Brother" is government, which has absolutely zero to do with the situation.

On the other argument.. so you're telling me there is NOT ONE agnostic or athiest in the BSA? Really? Wow; now
THAT'S unbelievable quality "christian recruiting."...

You're full of it. Agnostics exist in every walk of life. I don't need hard evidence.. just go anywhere and ask people if they believe in god...

You don't seem to be bothered by facts or definitions either. An "atheist" believes there is NO God. A "theist" (or "Deist") believes there IS a God (or gods, as the case may be). An "agnostic" neither believes nor disbelieves in the existence of God. If someone tells you that they believe in God, then they are NOT an agnostic, by definition. As I previously explained, it is impossible for a Scout to "do my duty to God" or be "Reverent" if he doesn't believe in God--so no, atheists and agnostics would not be eligible for membership in the BSA.

The boy deserves what he EARNED.

#2.83 - Wed Oct 10, 2012 3:32 PM EDT

No argument there. He EARNED the rank of Life Scout, and he was awarded that rank before he left the BSA. Since he did not complete the requirements for the rank of Eagle Scout, he therefore did not EARN Eagle Scout.

Any more questions?

Why pull your kids out? BSA will kill themselves since their existence is based upon donors and donations. Do what United Way and and Intel did...

Technology giant Intel Corporation recently told NBC News that since Jan. 1 it has required troops and councils to sign a document verifying that they comply with their non-discrimination policy in order to receive donations. The United Way of Greater Cleveland, which last year gave nearly $100,000 to the Boy Scouts of America, Greater Cleveland Council, said the organization would no longer qualify to receive such funding after it revised its diversity policy to include sexual orientation.

.

By the way, the article is incorrect on the requirements for Eagle Scout. There is much more that has to be done. Just so you know, it requires 6 months in a leadership position for each rank attained up to and including Eagle. That's just for starters. Great organization.

Unless you have kids in scouting or are involved you need to shut the F up. My family and I have been involved in scouting for over 15 years. So tired of people,groups and politicans using Scouting for their own agendas. It is a great organization for young people period. Go Aways stupid people and haters, and yes there are homosexual kids in scouting, so what, and read the scouting manual!! Leave us alone. It's about kids learning,growing and being good people. Sexuality and hate are not in the scout manual. Go Away, spread your BS elsewhere!!

What the hell is this kid doing in the Boy Scouts anyway? Why does he wish to drag the Scouts through yet another political controversy? The Boy Scouts have made it pretty clear (to me anyway) that homosexuals were not welcome for obvious reasons. He can't abide by the Scout Oath to be morally straight while cornholing and blowing other boys in the tents at night. He is not Eagle Scout material. Join some homosexual youth organization and rise to the highest rank there, but leave the Boy Scouts alone.

.

markwonder

What the hell is this kid doing in the Boy Scouts anyway? Why does he wish to drag the Scouts through yet another political controversy?

Yea. I'm sure he thought about that when he joined when he was 6.

You can't join the Boy Scouts when you are 6.

They are called CUB scouts.

Keeping homosexuals out of the Boy Scouts is the best way to fight pedophilia.

Sexual perverts are not welcome in the Boy Scouts. If you don't like that, too ^$%@!)( bad.

First and foremost, classifying homosexual orientation or any sexual behavior orientation as a civil right is wrong. Secondly, until the truth about homosexual behavior, especially between males, is released to the public, no further political efforts should be entertained on behalf of homosexuals. You see, GRID/AIDS is now a worldwide pandemic killing over 3 million people per year, over 40,000 of those in America alone. Those numbers are mind-boggling, yet little information on HIV and the root cause of HIV and how it it primarily spread (male on male homosexual intercourse) are given to us by the government or by the media. There is a dangerous cover-up of GRID/AIDS going on for the benefit of homosexuals and it is very, very disturbing!

classifying homosexual orientation or any sexual behavior orientation as a civil right is wrong.

No, YOU are wrong. The Supreme Court has disagreed with you on this, as well.

You see, GRID/AIDS is now a worldwide pandemic killing over 3 million people per year, over 40,000 of those in America alone. Those numbers are mind-boggling, yet little information on HIV and the root cause of HIV and how it it primarily spread (male on male homosexual intercourse) are given to us by the government or by the media.

So why is that approximately 85% of all cases worldwide are among heterosexuals? And that the group with the lowest incidence of HIV/AIDS is lesbian women?

You are incredibly ignorant ErinNJ. The aids virus was spread by homosexual males. Some of these scumbags were bi-sexual and infected their female partners, wives, prostitutes. Heterosexual males then were infected.

Also the vast majority of the hetero population that is infected are in Africa where the stupid bastards refuse to use rubbers. Because of their loose morals they F around on each other and now they are paying the price

This is just wrong. When religion begins afflicting people's feeling of worth is when I just dismiss its' absurdities. I just lost a significant amount of respect for the Boy Scouts of America. It's an absolute shame. I hope this young man realizes he has earned and is just as deserving as the other ones receiving this 'award'. It may be cheesy and sound like self-promotion, but I write a blog at wordpress.com by the same name as I am using here, and he is a true scout in my book.

You are incredibly ignorant ErinNJ. The aids virus was spread by homosexual males.

WRONG. If you actually did some research before you posted, you might sound a little more intelligent (but it's doubtful). The HIV/AIDS virus was brought into this country by an African bushmeat vendor who had come in contact with the tainted blood of a simian with SIV, and that vendor was definitely heterosexual.

He certainly couldn't have earned Eagle Scout if he wasn't even qualified to be in the Boy Scouts in the first place. I don't see why that is so hard for you dopes to understand.

He needs to start a gay youth group and then he can rise to the top there. Leave the Boy Scouts to the normal kids. Sheesh.