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Subscribe to RSSSources have told NBC news that the shooting at the Mexico border near Naco, Ariz., that killed border patrol agent Nicolas Ivie and wounded two others involved friendly fire. NBC's Mark Potter reports.
Updated at 7:30 p.m. ET: Investigators are preparing to announce that the death of Border Patrol Agent Nicholas Ivie in Arizona earlier this week was the result of friendly fire -- accidental gunfire from another agent who responded to the same scene, state and federal officials told NBC News on Friday.
The conclusion is based on an analysis of the ballistics, the lack of evidence of other criminals in the area at the time, and other factors, the sources said.
The FBI released a statement later on Friday confirming that preliminary evidence showed friendly fire was to blame in the shootings.
"While it is important to emphasize that the FBI's investigation is actively continuing, there are strong preliminary indications that the death of United States Border Patrol Agent Nicholas J. Ivie and the injury to a second agent was the result of an accidental shooting incident involving only the agents," said James L. Turgal Jr., FBI spokesman, in a statement to NBC News. "At the appropriate time further information will be provided, but while the investigation continues it would be inappropriate to comment any further at this time."
The incident involving Ivie and two other agents occurred Tuesday in a rugged area about five miles north of the US-Mexico border near Bisbee, Ariz. The agents had responded to an alarm from a sensor that tracks illegal movement along the border.
Gary M. Williams / AP
Christy Ivie, center, wife of Nicholas Ivie, holds back tears as she is surrounded by her father, Tracy Morris, and mother, DeAnn Morris, left, and her sister, Jan Cloward, and brother, Travis Morris, right, during a news conference on Tuesday.
Ivie was killed. A second agent was wounded and was released from the hospital after undergoing surgery. The third agent was unharmed.
State and federal officials said immediately after the incident that the shootings were committed by armed criminals. And since then, Mexican authorities have said they arrested two men in Agua Prieta, northern Sonora state, a few miles from where the shooting occurred.
Pete Williams is NBC News' chief justice correspondent.
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Leave a Comment:
That is absolutely horrible that a officer was killed let alone from friendly fire. My heart goes out to the family. When you take a job like this you know you can be killed but you hope that doesnt happen. Its sad but it did happen. It was a accident.
WOW, three days after the headline reported it may be friendly fire they finally added something to article that actually indicates that... If it FF, I feel aweful about the loss of life and the suffering this will cause.
Initially it was 3 agents responding to a tripped sensor, one killed, another wounded, the 3rd, a woman, was unharmed.......hmm. Nervous grip on her M9?
Translated to English, that means:
Obamas buddies killed him, and now they are covering up the murder for the election.
We need to start killing anyone who comes over that border illegally, we need to close the border too.
Out of the woods, you're out of your mind.
In the real world, stuff happens that has nothing to do with who the President is.
I knew it was coming, I just didn't know it was coming out of the woods!
My prayers to the family, especially their children.
yep; COVERUP!
as the old saying goes, "with friends like that, who needs enemies."
@GeorgeBurns - 'outofthewoods' post just shows even more evidence that people are gonna blame Obama for anything and everything that their bigoted little minds can think of.
What a mess!
Friendly Drug Smuggling, Human Trafficking, School Droping Out Of, Food Stamp Stealing, Medicaid Defrauding, 5 Anchor Baby Creating, Tattoo Covered Mexicans?
No, there seems to be no evidence yet concocted that it was friendly fire by a bunch of highly trained agents. The very last thing these guys are ever allowed to do is to fire their weapons. Neither of them if they had arrived at different times would have just started shooting at the other for no reason. And not one but two agents shot? This is a confusion diversion ploy. And it is most sad because like the other border agent killed and caught in one of the Presidents confusion distraction ploys... the families will be left in the cold wondering forever. Just sad. And yes, responsibility for everything rests with the president... he is the president.
Let's see. If it were anyone else but NBC I might listen. But a couple days after the debates that kicked Obama's ass and the trumped up jobs report today what else did most kool aid drinkers need. Mexico has two in custody but now we find it was self inflicted? So, in other words, if it looks like BS, smells like BS, it probably is BS.
Out of the woods: You need to come out of the woods and get a dose of reality. Among other things, it is simply impossible to secure the border short of making it a demilitarized zone at enormous time and cost, and even then there are lots of other ways to sneak in. And killing anyone who comes over the border. That's what they did at the Berlin Wall. Are you a communist?
Billions of dollars worth of drugs flowing over our border along with the most dangerous gangs in the world today, 80% of American citizens want it to stop, and you say I'm out of my mind ?
Our policies of telling them after they are here that they can ignore the police, and get government aid on our dime is what is insane.
The total cost to Americans is uncountable. It has got to be way up in the 10's of billions of dollars when you include schooling, free lunches, wick, student assistance, giving citizenship to whoever manages to walk 50 feet into our country and pinch a kid out of their twat, violence, an even lartger market for the drugs, overcrowded prisons, jobs going to the whoever can live on $6.00 an hour for skilled trades, the crimes that are both reported, and un reported from rape to gang violence as they burn our flag in our streets.
You say I'm out of my mind ? You are right. I am ready myself to start picking those sons of bitches off.
Yes, Obamas buddies when he gives them amnesty, people lying about the statistics, sugar coating the news, giving them amnesty as he has called investigations against loyal citizens who are trying to obey their oaths ans uphold the law.
Obama can go straight to hell, and so can you.
We've got a multi trillion dollar military across the seas making nothing but enemy's when the real enemy is 5 feet inside of our home.
If we are going to kick some countries ass, I would rather it be Mexicos.
OBAMA: "Is there anyway......I mean anyway I can blame this on Romney or the Republicans?"
I'm with 'out of the woods'
This doesn't even come CLOSE to passing the smell test. Something's up. Three highly trained professionals show up at a scene and start shooting each other? I don't think so.
Yea, and they'll still find a way to pin this on these two guys, saying it was their fault.
Was it an American made gun that killed one, and wounded the other?
OTHER FACTORS:
A call from OBAMA:
" I don't want any Latinos arrested until AFTER ELECTION DAY! But if you have to arrest Latinos, let me give them a deferment and the DREAM Act in advance."
The sick little demented minds that would blame the POTUS for any connection to this. The good news is that people like this are so uneducated and lazy, they have not even registered to vote, much less have any sway in this election.
The only President in US history to grant amnesty to illegal aliens was Ronald Reagan. So...billy badass, what's your opinion of your beloved St. Ronny?
It would be nice if the Whitehouse and the liberal media could get the story straight right up front for once. Too quick on the trigger is what the liberal media is. Whether anything coming from our current administration is the truth or a coverup one never knows. Especially since lies is their modus operandi for the election. Every ad contains suspect or flat out incorrect information.
Fucnk you Chaos_soahC ,
I have been voting for 32 years, and am college educated. I have worked since I was 11 years old, and bought my first car when I was 15 years old, and still had $2,500 in the bank 100% earned without any help from family.
Look at all of the crow eaters still trying to spin this - this isn't Fox, we know spin when we see it.
Even Obama admits the statistics are wrong, or as he put it, "misleading" because under Obama, people held, and turned away at the border are now counted as "deported".
I think most people here remember that Obama just granted tens of thousands of illegal criminal aliens amnesty, so what you say is bull hockey fake Doc !
Sure you are - and I have all the X-men powers. They don't call it Liar Net for nothing. Even if what you say is true - it is pointless to mention it on the Net...stick to the story - TROLL.
I'd bet you those $2500. dollars you wouldn't say that to his face. The wonders of the internet has spawned some bad ass dudes like you, all behind a keyboard....LOL!!
You know guys, instead of bickering, how bout using what one would call your brain, and also some compassion. Use your brain and realise ballistics are the key. Face it all you conspericy nuts; it was an accident! Have a little decor. Have some compassion! The wife and family are hurting! They lost a LOVED one! And how do you think the agent who accidentally killed him feels?!?! He has to live with the horror of killing a fellow agent for the rest of his life!!!! How would you feel if it was one of your family members?! Or How would you feel if you were the one who accidentally pulled the trigger, ending the life of a coleage, possibly even someone he knew, or was friends with?!?! Get off your high horse, and act as if you were a real humanbeing!!! Instead of an a$$!!!
Thank God the truth came out fast or Mitt Romney/ Lying Ryan would have Fast and Furious responsible for this already!
Yes, "Industrial Strength", I was wondering about the unusual chain of events. One agent, perhaps a little too blind and undoubtedly a little too far away shoots the first agent already on the scene. Then the female agent arrives and can't identify the second and shoots him....??
Just guessing. Wonder if anyone will ever tell the truth; like that female agent?
1.22 - College educated? Maybe at Geico U with Neanderthal man, or at Kindergarten U. Wow!
And as for the POTUS being responsible for everything occurring on their watch (at 1.11), of course that wouldn't apply to the shrub from Texas on 9/11/2001, would it? You know, the "I'm reading My Pet Goat to My Classmates Exemption."
What rock or swamp do these people crawl out from, and does Faux Noise issue their tin foil hats or do they make them all by themselves?
Nope...what I said is FACT...you are the one talking sh!t.
if you can do it here GO BACK TO YOUR OUN COUNTRY and do it ,out of the woods. the borders are so scarey is because our undocumented worker in the white house has made it so if you get here you are given amnesty !! so instesd of securing the borders, he has opened the flood gate. any that can RUN, JUMP, or SWIM to get here. and has put a target on all border patrol agents back. right now if they stand in the way of getting here their lives are in danger
They have a solution to avoid these kind of accidents. It's called NIGHT VISION GOGGLES. Modern digital night vision devices are like watching a black and white tv image. They also have these funny little things on the shoulders of US Army uniforms called Identify Friend and Foe or IFF squares. Those shiny little black squares (that uniforms have little velcro tabs to cover) glow really bright under night vision so you can tell not to shoot the guys with the shiny shoulders. Why weren't these border patrol agents using night vision and/or thermal devices. It's not like the drug cartels aren't using them.
My heartfelt condolences go out to the family. As the President, Obamao has at least some responsibility solely because of the actions that he and his party have taken to indirectly encourage illegal border jumpers. Sorry but if you don't want the responsibility of the job, you don't campaign for it.
Clearly, Issa is involved and should be investigated.
@scrounge - good name, since you seem to be scrounging for ideas. But as a matter of actual fact, you are far more to blame than Obama.
kill every illegal trying to come overhere??? that sounds insane!!
I completely agree with kill every drug smuggling invader but having said that then we might have to kill some citizens of the united states also. Because to be clear us citizens are involved in that too, and they cross the border back and forth without a problem.
Im caucasian and the tought of killing anybody trying to cross the border sounds irrational, theres children and babies that have no idea what is going on. And are being brought overhere by their parents. They have no fault whatsoever.
And no dream act has been passed for anybody saying obama passed the dream act!!
Sounds to me like nobody knpws WTF happened, and we're going to drag our feet on finding out until after the election! I'm not surprised.
out of the woods
Your demeanor would suggest you are out of the woods, and out of your mind...
They are doing wonderful things with rage drugs these days...
You should respect your elders and not talk that way to them...
or and please, learn how to spell @!$%#!
Mr. Ol Doc
Ron signed an amnesty bill AFTER the Congressional Democrats said they would write legislation to close the border , of course they didn't take up the legislation and here we are with the smell of Democrat turd on our shoes , pretty cool eh?
What's disturbing is not that Out Of The Woods and some others are so clearly mentally ill but that a number of others "like" their comments.
What's most scary is if there are enough of their ilk to be a factor in ANY election, the country may well be doomed to eventually get in another Hitler.
Sorry, I don't buy the Friendly Fire. This is just another way our government of the cover up with Fast N Furious.
Out of the woods....................The reason billions of dollars of drugs come into America is because there is a MARKET FOR THESE DRUGS by drug abusing Americans....... they are not free drugs........AMERICANS ARE BUYING THESE DRUGS....if Americans didn't buy them.....the market would dry up and blow away.
So tell all your friends and tell yourself that you need to QUIT DOING DRUGS to solve this problem.
abc,
Your thoughts are a symptom of FOX overdose. Cut down on your viewing and you will feel better soon!
Please conspiracy nuts shut the hell up.You act like the border patrol are the Navy Seals. Right they would never shoot one of their own. The military are trained even better and friendly fire still occurs. So please keep telling everyone that the highly trained border Patrol can never make a mistake.
not one apology from the bigots that were on here just yesterday condeming all mexicans.....
not even an "ooops my bad i spoke and judged others in my racial hatred b4 i knew any facts".....
oh im proud to be an american, where atleast i know im
freekinda free, and i wont forget.... oh fuk ityou people know who you are, but for those that dont, you are worthless POS!
oh now its time to claim coverup and start making up conspiracies....
woot yep im proud to be an american, just wish some of you old folks (she old lady post above), stuck in your ways, would die off soon so the rest of us can be proud!
As I recall, the initial reports stated the poor unfortunate now dead agent was riding on horse back. So how in the %$#& do you shoot a man on a horse by accident? Worse, how does a supposedly professionally trained government agent do something like this?
Nope. I just cannot accept this as true.
OSLOSoldier Yes ballistics can be key. The bullet is either a match or it is not. From the sound of their statement they don't really seem sure.
"The conclusion is based on an analysis of the ballistics, the lack of evidence of other criminals in the area at the time, and other factors, the sources said."
If ballistics were a match then they would have said it but quess what they did not. Plus we have Mex authorities stating they have 2 in custody.
This whole freaking thing smells just like the Consolate in Libya affair. Days and Days of lies and misleading info from the Obamanation and his admin. We still did not hear the truth from them. I* know folks on BP and even they say that this makes no sense.
Also what does "the lack of evidence of other criminals in the area at the time" supposed to mean. What the heck do they mean by other criminals? If it were just the BP agents then there would be no criminals-not the lack of other criminals. So I ques the only criminals there were the ones that ran drugs and shot the agents with one of the Fat and Furious guns.
You libs just keep believing what they feed you(NBC, Obama, etc.) but I hope some day that you realize it is just a bunch of shlt because one of these days it may be you or one of your loved ones
Also don't give me crap about no respect to the agents. I said my prayers, offered my condolences through friends stationed right out of the same base
out of the woods must be light in the loafers. his comments are absurd and without any merit. condolences to all involved including the shooter.
Rugged? I'll grant you that's its been a while since I was at naco but as I remember it was a flat as a board desert?
The criminals who killed Brian Terry were out 'hunting' border patrol. Interesting how another agent is murdered in the same location. Now, the DOJ under Holder went in and sealed the court documents for the original murder of Terry, didn't want the press having too much information, especially when, prior to the documents being sealed, it was revealed that those killers were indeed out to kill border patrol, using weapons from the Obama/Holder Fast and Furious weapons trafficking debacle.
Were it not for a tight election this story should have made top of the headlines, except, of course, that, coming on the heels of Univision's expose of Fast and Furious, it made Obama look really bad. One more agent killed under his watch, along with an ambassador and three other Americans.
The borders are a war zone, the news isn't coverning the murders of American citizens and agents, nor the rapes, assualts, burglaries, arson etc. in the areas, don't want the public to know just how bad it really is. There are no-man's lands inside the United States, areas controlled by the narco terrorists, lands that include parks. Obama's answer to the problem was to have signs posted telling Americans that the areas were and are dangerous. How many more people have to die before this administration gets a clue?
Deepest condolences to the family of the murdered agent. So unnecessary.
Did you feel Bush was Responsible for Pat Tillman affair?
Blaming Obama sounds about the same.
Did you ever learn about the "Chain of Command" or did you serve in some other capacity where that wasn't necessary?
Actually it is far from the same. Tillman wasn't killed by guns run into Mexico as a result of actions by the administration, setting up a 'sting' to traffick weapons into Mexico. Tillman was a soldier in a war zone, Terry was killed on soverign American soil, soil that Obama, as his duty as president, has sworn to protect. As to F&F and the coverups, the coverups are the only similarities.
Does the chain of command execute executive orders to coverup papers requested by a congressional investigative committee, especially when those papers are being hidden by a DOJ who lied before congress?
Do you spend all your time making excuses for Obama? Does the buck ever stop at HIS chain of command? Why, never. The plaque on Obama's desk reads 'Blame Bush.'
Doesn't take long for the political trolls wearing their tin foil hats to try to tie this into a conspiracy by the federal government. Right mygirl1? Didn't the Bush administration try to cover up the real evidence about how Tillman died and make him as a hero that was killed in a fire fight with the enemy? Was the so called Fast and Furious a plan that was originally initiated by the Bush administration? Certainly but don't let the facts ruin a good lie.
mygirl1, we don't have to spend time making excuses for President. Unfortunately, we do have to spend time to inform the public of FACTS, due to intentional misinformation and willful lies that people like yourself spread indiscrimently. It is a real shame given time lost to real discussion.
People like you accuses the illegals, and when facts come out, you now blame our government for cover up... It seems that you forgot to read that FAST AND FURIOUS was not a President Obama or AG Holter's project, but a project started during the GW Bush administration. So what is your new excuse and new accusations now??? Hoping for something to stick.... lol
Tinfoil and blinders for the Obamabots. Now, I realize you can't do much except make excuses for the man, however, following and using debunked information is a tad...weak. I won't bother to argue with you because strawmen arguments are a waste of time. You wouldn't listen to facts, you prefer the spin, much easier to digest. Bush is conveniently there to use as an ongoing excuse mantra for Obama. You know the facts, the real facts but instead you want to promote the fairy tale so that your Hero doesn't look like the coverup kid. Guess you missed Benghazi as well, that dratted video and all.....
Promises, promises, and more promises;
a) President Obama promised to close Gitmo. Did he? NO.
b) President Obama promised in March that the Libyan War would be short term? Is it? NO.
c) President Obama promised that Obamacare would reduce the cost of health care. Will it? NO.
d) President Obama promised that his Stimulus would keep unemployment below 8%. Did it. NO.
e) President Obama promised that his administration would be the most transparent in history. Is it? NO.
f) President Obama promised to End the income tax for seniors making less than $50,000 per year. Did he? NO.
g) President Obama promised to Repeal the Bush Tax cuts for high income earners. Did he? NO.
h) President Obama promised to Stop companies in bankruptcy for giving executives bonuses. Did he? NO.
i) President Obama promised to Allow 5 days of public comment before signing legislation. Did he? NO.
j) President Obama promised to Negotiate health care reform with public sessions on C-SPAN. Did he? NO.
k) President Obama promised to Initiate comprehensive immigration reform in his first year. Did he? NO.
l) President Obama promised to Expand and make refundable the child and dependent care credit. Did he? NO.
m) President Obama promised to End no-bid contracts above $25,000. Did he? NO.
n) President Obama promised to Forbid companies in bankruptcy from giving executives bonuses. Did he? NO.
o) President Obama promised to Allow workers to claim more in unpaid wages and benefits in bankruptcy court Did he? NO.
p) President Obama promised to Allow imported prescription drugs, to lower cost for Americans. Did he? NO.
q) President Obama promised to Mandate insurance coverage of autism treatment. Did he? NO.
r) President Obama promised to Appoint federal-level coordinator to oversee all federal autism efforts. Did he? NO.
s) President Obama promised to Direct the Secretary of Health and Human Services to conduct a comprehensive study of federal cancer initiatives. Did he? NO.
t) President Obama promised to Create a National Commission on People with Disabilities, Employment, and Social Security. Did he? NO.
u) President Obama promised to Change federal rules so small businesses owned by people with disabilities can get preferential treatment for federal contracts. Did he? NO.
v) President Obama promised to Form international group to help Iraq refugees. Did he? NO.
w) President Obama promised to Allow five days of public comment before signing bills. Did he? NO.
x) President Obama promised to Tougher rules against revolving door for lobbyists and former officials. Did he? NO.
y) President Obama promised to Double funding for afterschool programs. Did he? NO.
z) President Obama promised to Urge states to treat same-sex couples with full equality in their family and adoption laws. Did he? NO.
aa) President Obama promised to Allow bankruptcy judges to modify terms of a home mortgage. Did he? NO.
bb) President Obama promised to Re-establish the National Aeronautics and Space Council. Did he? NO.
cc) President Obama promised to Support human mission to moon by 2020. Did he? NO.
dd) President Obama promised to Pay for the national service plan without increasing the deficit. Did he? NO.
ee) President Obama promised to Limit term of director of national intelligence. Did he? NO.
ff) President Obama promised to Give annual "State of the World" address to the American people in which I lay out our national security policy. Did he? NO.
gg) President Obama promised to Reduce earmarks to 1994 levels. Did he? NO.
hh) President Obama promised to Enact windfall profits tax for oil companies. Did he? NO.
ii) President Obama promised to Require plug-in fleet at the White House. Did he? NO.
jj) President Obama promised to Provide an annual report on "state of our energy future". Did he? NO.
kk) President Obama promised to Allow penalty-free hardship withdrawals from retirement accounts in 2008 and 2009. Did he? NO.
There are enough broken promises here to make just about anyone to say Obama sucks, he talks the talk but can’t walk the walk.
NO-BAMA 2012!
in the dark of the night, in a isolated area , covered with scrub brush, coming in from different angles on the suspects, is on of the dangers of law enforcement; i doubt they would have fired unless someone fired at them first, law enforcement is not a exact science, every situation is different; the officer gave his life in protection of his country, no matter who fired the fatal shot !
To "Menoceeno". Sure, if one has a mind to. This is John McCain's state, and he has NEVER once lifted a finger to stop the illegal immigration into this state. The only time he even speaks up, is his election time or to critisize the President. However, I don't think either side will ever do anything.
Ol_Doc
9
!
#1.31 - Fri Oct 5, 2012 6:25 PM EDT
President Barack Obama's Homeland SecurityDepartment officials released a report that claims Immigration and Customs Enforcementdeported a record number of illegal immigrants in the last fiscal year, including an "unprecedented number of convicted illegals with criminal records." However, a closer look at the figures reveals the report is bogus, according to the lawmaker in-charge of immigration oversight.
In the 2011 fiscal year which ended last month, ICE officials claim they deported more than 396,000 illegal immigrants nationwide -- the largest number in the agency's history, ICE officials said in a statement released yesterday. Of these, nearly 55 percent or more than 216,000 of the people deported were convicted of felonies or misdemeanors -- an 89 percent increase since FY 2008 when George W. Bush was president.
"Smart and effective immigration enforcement relies on setting priorities for removal and executing on those priorities," said ICE Director John Morton in a press statement.
However, there are some who claim the figures released by Morton -- who was the recipient of a unanimous "vote of no confidence" by his own staff, the men and women who serve as ICE agents -- are purposely misleading or out-and-out bogus.
House Judiciary Committee Chairman Lamar Smith (R-Texas) issued a biting statement upon reading the ICE statistics.
“The Obama administration continues to inflate its deportation numbers. The administration includes voluntary removals in its deportation statistics even though they impose no penalties on the offenders and make it easier for illegal immigrants to return to the U.S.," said Rep. Smith.
"In other words, the Obama administration is cooking the books to make it look like they are enforcing immigration laws, when in reality they are enacting amnesty through inaction," he stated.
The war on drugs is a joke.....The death of an agent IS NOT!!!!!!!!!!!!
I don't buy it either - awfully CONVENIENT, to blame this on the agents after Obama made his Justice Dept. decide to NOT prosecute the so-called "undocumented" aliens right before an election. Such a move could NEVER encourage more border-jumping, could it?<sarc> And I suppose it was just a jack rabbit that set off that sensor, right?<more sarc> So, who are those two guys the Mexican authorities arrested?????
Go Figure: "And yes, responsibility for everything rests with the president... he is the president."
SERIOUSLY? Cause my sinks clogged--should I call Obama to come fix it?
Out of the Woodies: "If we are going to kick some countries ass, I would rather it be Mexicos."
Hey! Why don't you get out of the woods and go down to the border and kick some ass yourself? More friendly fire for our Border Agents! Yah Hoo!
mygirlie: "The criminals who killed Brian Terry were out 'hunting' border patrol."
So Brian Terry was killed by friendly fire? Of course, it really doesn't matter, does it? Because after all, guns don't kill people. People kill people, right?
Can't blame the illegal alien drug smuggling invaders.
Ballistics tests are more difficult when we're supplying all the weapons!
I was wondering how long someone would blame it on Obama.
It couldn't be friendly fire.
Janet Napolitano made all the Border Patrol agents load up with rubber bullets.
My condolences....to Darrell Issa.
I thought our border agents, like our troops guarding our embassies, weren't allowed to carry live rounds? Might offend the bad guys and cause them to shoot live rounds at our people.
Wait a Damn minute, they said they arrested 2 Mexicans for killing him. Something doesn't add up here.
Who is they? Elmo
CommonMan- can't hold all of obama's followers responsible
The 2 Mexicans confessed to the killing after a couple hours of torture. They also admitted to killing the 4 Americans in Libya and throwing the 1919 World Series.
Stronghorse; by "we're", you mean the private citizens of Tucson and Phoenix - right. Since 99.9% of the guns getting to Mexico are being bought at legal gun shows here by your average joe, not the Feds, State, or local governments.
Need any more help, just call me.
wow, are you're statistics off, guns recovered from crime scenes in Mexico show that less than 20% come from the United States.
That's still a lot of guns, but when these guys hold lumps of $200,000,000, do you think a gun will find its way to them ?
out of the woods, all of J_P's stats are made up, always! Pay no attention.
The real problem here is that the media are not to be trusted. First one story and then another. No one knows what to believe . Our news media is little more than a cheer leading squad for Obama. It would be nice to just get a news story that tells us the facts without all the opinion added. Tell us what happened and we will decide how to feel about it.
You have to go to the foreign press for real news. The Obama media is nothing but propaganda created to either make Obama look good or else downplay and ignore anything that makes Obama look bad. Univision, the spanish network, actually carried the expose of Fast and Furious, NBC ignored it until the congressional contempt charges against Holder and then they tried to blame Bush for something that was all Obama and Holder. CBS first broke the story, after the whistleblowers in the ATF came forward, Fox has also covered it but Univision told the tale of how many Mexicans have been killed as a result of Fast and Furious, the US media couldn't be bothered to cover that aspect of things. Univision showed the murders and the bodies and the blood in the streets and on the walls and floor and the faces of the dead, they actually put faces to the victims. And folks STILL defend Obama?
Yeah, those damn liberals at FOX News trying to make Obama look good. How dare they!!!
Doubt you could factor Fox into the Obama propaganda media. NBC, however....
They would have known of friendly fire immediately, The three agents would have known where they were shooting and would have known where the other agents were. Miss Piggy and insane ubama both douche with hogwash
My girlfriend: "You have to go to the foreign press for real news. The Obama media is nothing but propaganda created to either make Obama look good or else downplay and ignore anything that makes Obama look bad. Univision, the spanish network," etc etc etc.
OH WHAT A GIVEAWAY! I thought you hated those darn Mexicans--guess not as much as you hate Obama and any intelligent US news though, huh? HILARIOUS! Drink the Beck coolaid--yummy! (I heard him say this too). Silly girl!
Was the second wounded officer a victim of friendly fire also? The story doesn't say.
I hear ya. Had to have been one of the other two, and if one of those was wounded, who does that leave?
Lori- at this point the wounded one is probably insignifcant!
If our boarders were truely closed we would not have to worry about this sort of thing. Our people are in harms way because of Washington not being able to control what goes on in our own country. We let other countries (Mexico) dictate to us what our policies should be and the bleeding heart liberals that think we should be accepting the illegals into our country.
YES and yes. I agree
We have OTHER countries dictating our foreign policies and it simply pisses me off.
You're kidding, right? Truly closed borders. You really think we could "truly close" our borders with Mexico and Canada, as well as the entire coastline of the United States. It will never happen, the number of miles is just too great. While I'm at it, I'll suggest that other countries do not dictate our foreign policy. Because we are but one of many countries on Earth, we do have to adjust our policies in regard to our relationships with other countries.
Now, if you would like to limit illegal immigration, just enforce the laws we have. Years ago, employers were instructed that each new hire would have to fill out Form I-9 (currently administered by US Citizenship and Immigration Services), and this form be kept on file by the employer. Most have never heard of it. Form I-9 requires the new hire to verify they are in the US legally by showing proper documentation. Illegal immigrants are here because they want a job. No job, they aren't going to stick around. You want to blame someone for our illegal immigration problem, just look to the employers hiring them. The law is in place, ask that it be enforced. Of course, when the produce doesn't get picked, the chickens don't get butchered and the jobs that the illegals will take but our citizens won't don't get done, don't complain.
And if you didn't get it in the story, he was killed by friendly fire. Not by one of the illegals, one of our own.
If the border was truly closed our drug users wouldn't be able to cross the border to get their fix.
Chuck: It is impossible, physically impossible, to truly close our borders. Why can't you people get that through your heads and start dealing with real solutions?
David. It's border not boarder. And truly, not truely. Even Dubya can spell it. Did they not teach Republicans spelling in grade school? Get spell check dude.
And yes, if the " boarders were truely closed", we would be living in a fairy world. Won't happen. Logistic nightmare & the fences only work now & then.
Tell me genius, who is the only US President to grant amenity to illegal aliens? Come on neo-con...you can say it...St. Ronny. Now he was quite the flaming liberal wasn't he?
buckwheat elvis
Border.
David, It's not a case of the government can't, It's a clear case of refusing to control the situation! The Government can close the border, and not listen to Mexico, But the government won't!
Be careful David, we wouldn't want to confuse the worthless Liberal race baiting scum bags with the truth.
Of course the "boarders" can be sealed. Just redirect the energy beams from all those rwnj tin foil hats to create a force field and voila' - problem solved. ROFLOL!
Actually, the borders can be made safer and more secure, however, that wouldn't be PC. Once Obama is over needing the latino vote, perhaps he'll pay more attention to the borders, and...with any luck he won't be in charge of the borders or much else after the elections.
To secure every inch of the border with Mexico in your right wing fairy tale minds, the cost would be astronomical............which would mean raising taxes to pay for more border agents and construction for huge surveilled walls. Are you right wingers ready to pay more taxes ? Didn't think so. You want your cake but you never want to pay for it.
Rule #3
If you can't refute their argument correct their spelling.
To secure even a portion of the border would be better than building a bridge so that they can more readily cross into this country. The Feds BUILT a bridge in Texas to facilitate easier access. Go look it up.
And you're all going to pick our fruits and veggies for less than minimum wage in the hot sun--with NO benefits whatsoever, right? I worked in agricultural field for 6 weeks--guarantee you'd never stand it for even 1 day under those conditions. Slave labor: the real reason behind illegal immigration and loose borders.
But keep drinking the coolaid, lemmings.
If this is true.
It in no way suppresses my anger about how we are protecting our borders. We need to stop the illegals from entering our country.
IF THIS IS TRUE his death can be contributed to the mishandling of our immigration policies and the lack of training of these agents.
NOT ALL but many.
YOU need to stop the illegals. Not all states are like yours. Get up off your duffs and protect your own states' borders. Why should MY state have to pay to help yours protect itself when the peoples in AZ, CA and TX could give a crap about how many illegals mow their lawns and do their roofing at cheap rates?
Anyone else fed up with the lazy asses in this country who want, want, want and then go all gung ho about their "states' rights" BS while they sit back and eat up federal funds taxpayers from others states are paying for? Texas is Big and Rich and a whole other country...get up off those double cheeked asses and get rid of your own illegals. Same for the hoity toities in AZ and CA.
ewent.......The Federal Govt. is responsible for the control of OUR borders. This is settled law and very unlikely to change in our lifetimes.
ewent,
Maybe because it's called the United States! Not the divided states like Obama has been trying to establish!
Arizona was in the process of protecting their own borders before the feds stepped in and sued/threatened Arizona for following the law.
Don't bother Big Daddy...ewent is too busy sucking on the Democrap teat to use something resembling brains.
Ewent- you must be joking? So only border states should be concerned about our borders? I wonder if the 911 victims feel the same way- and they are pretty far from the Mexico border.
Arizona has tried endlessly to take matters into their own hands and they have been blocked at every effort. You are what is absolutely wrong with the current thought process, the current leadership, and the current state of mind in our country. You don't deserve to sit on your throne and point fingers at good people trying very hard to keep you safe in your fantasy world.
A hefty fine for employing an illegal.
Legalize marijuana federally and in all states. We can grow our own.
Bring home our troops and employ them on the border 24/7. We've made enough enemies overseas for a lifetime, and we cannot save the world. There is such a thing as balance of nature and it applies to human cultures also.
Tattoo every illegal found over here. Send them back on a bus. The second time they are caught over here, make them disappear forever. What happens to Americans if they are caught somewhere they do not belong? At least we'll give the offenders a second chance to keep their ass where it belongs. If they are not interested in moving here legally, then they know the consequences.
1. I believe it's the state of Virginia with the billboards threatening violent revolution when Obama's re-elected. I believe it was Governor Perry (R-TX) who was talking secession ... who's the divider?
2. For following THEIR (State) law. Federal Law supersedes State law. States have the right to sue the Federal Government. The Supreme Court is dominated by right-wing judges. If the State believes they have legitimate Constitutional grounds, they can take it to the Supremes.
Yea...illegal Latin American immigrants had a lot to do with 911. I'm surprised your Texas Village Idiot didn't invade Guatemala too.
Years ago Arizona voters approved a number of referendums cutting off aid to illegal aliens, eliminating bilingual education, and a number of other measures to force illegal aliens to leave the state. Then Governor (Now Sec of DHS) Nappy twisted the meaning of the laws like pretzels to keep from denying any benefits to illegals. DESPITE the wishes of the voters, Nappy and her hand picked intended successor AG Terry Goddard, came to the conclusion that the only welfare benefits that the laws banned were eyeglasses and dental care. They then went on to tell welfare workers to simply not ask for proof of citizenship as a means to bypass the will of the voters. Nappy was always VERY pro illegal alien, even to the point of deriding anyone who tried to assist the border patrol by reporting illegals. She treated the Minuteman Project worse than MS-13 criminals. How dare a bunch of American Citizens demand that people entering the country LEGALLY and then report those they observed crossing the border illegally to the border patrol. When she was forced to send National Guardsmen to the border, she limited their roles to nothing but performing vehicle maintenance and typing and filing reports. There was even one incident wherein National Guardsmen who were manning an observation post were forced to run away from a gang of armed illegal aliens. What did finally get the illegal aliens to start vacating Arizona in droves? Arizona passed a law revoking the business licenses of any business caught knowingly hiring illegal aliens. There were a number of lawsuits over that one, but they all failed as the ability to own and operate a business is a privilege and can be revoked for violating the law.
Hey Ol Doc, did you happen to do ANY research on ANY of the intended terrorist attacks in this country in the last 12 years? Half of the 9/11 hijackers were in this country illegally. That means that they were ILLEGAL ALIENS. The 5 of the 6 that had intended to attack Ft Dix, NJ were in this country illegally. They had entered the US legally, left and reentered ILLEGALLY VIA THE MEXICAN BORDER. Do you not realize, or is it simply not in your liberal leftist talking points, that entering the US illegally via Mexico has become the preferred method for OTM (other than Mexican) illegal aliens, especially those from middle eastern and Asian (North Korea and China) countries that aren't considered exactly friendly to the US? Did you miss the memo wherein Al Quaeda was instructing members to learn Spanish, Mexican Geography and adopt Mexican personas for the purpose of sneaking across the border into the US. The idea being that if they claim to be Miguel instead of admitting to being Mohammed, the US will simply escort them back to the border instead of incarcerating and interrogating them. Luke Air Force Base outside of Phoenix discovered that, (as their security staff duty NCO described to me when I was applying for my contractor's pass) a bunch of "bad dudes" had managed to sneak onto the base. For the next year that I serviced them, they had doubled the armed guards and had Security Patrol personnel with M16s at the main gates. They also began giving any incoming vehicle without a pass a full inspection for anything out of the ordinary.
ol doc,
Weak borders create many issues, and not just Mexicans cross that border- Don't be coy with the obvious.
I lived in Texas for 4 years, Mexico for 2 years, was born and raised in California.
Houston is not a village, and plenty of Guatemalans, Colombians, and all Latin American countries utilize the Mexican borders every day all day and night illegally.
I love the irony of parasitic welfare red state republicans crying about "IT'S THE UNITED STATES! WE DEMAND WELFARE FROM THE FEDERAL GOVT! YOU EXPECT US TO DO ANYTHING ON OUR OWN?"
Hilarious. Now when the Feds try and tell you that you can't discriminate against minorities or that you can't teach creationism etc you cry and whine about it. But that's not going to stop you from milking the feds for everything you can.
Hmm, what is the constitutional mandate required of the president? Do you have a clue? Please, enlighten us about that fact before you go off on some rant about red states. You need to educate yourself, repeating scripted lines from the DNC isn't cutting it.
I would gladly pay twice the amount for lawnmowing if i could get the illegal wetbackz out of the USA
I really believe Janet Napolitano does not know what she is doing. Didn't she say the borders are fine? We do need to do something with the border down south. What do we do, I don't know but something has to be done we can't afford to pay for the people coming across. In this country today we have enough of our citizens to take of. Don't kid yourselves these illegals know what they are doing and so do their kids. It is a shame that some laws have been passed to give these illegal kids a better deal for higher education(Colorado) than the kids of our Vets and it is not just the states it is EO that BO signed also. I am sitting trying to figure out when the border guards got live ammo, last I heard they had rubber bullets. So what is really going on here. My opinion, CLOSE THE DAMN BORDER!!!!!
.
Wow. When this story first broke there was all sorts of criticism of the President and anti Mexican sentiment and borderline xenophobia. Now that it turns out it was friendly fire, I wonder if the narrative will change. Probably not, but a fella can dream.
cappy
The narrative won't change and shouldn't. We need to close our borders yesterday. Our president needs to order current laws to be enforced, instead of pandering to the Latinos for votes, and yes Bush should have cracked down on illegals as well.
We need laws for our borders similar to Mexico's, immediate deportation or jail.
It's the Pat Tillman story revisited.
Exactly how is it xenophobic when the religious leaders of billions of people have declared war on you because you're a different faith? Especially with the amount of Middle Eastern Muslim paraphernalia that is being found in the desert north of the Mexican border?
Then again, I would bet that you might change your attitude if your daughter was one of the young girls that the twice convicted and 5 time deported illegal alien stalked and raped at gunpoint in the Phoenix area a few years ago. Of course according to his non English speaking wife with MULTIPLE children, and his American mistress, he was just a good hard working family man. Or maybe you'd be a little less sympathetic to the ILLEGAL ALIENS if it were your brother, mother and father who were murdered with a shotgun by your illegal alien ex because he was intent on (and actually did) kidnapping your two children and taking them to Mexico like happened about 5 years ago in the Phoenix area.
Bisbee: sorry, it isn't Pat Tillman. I would go on to explain the difference but I would be talking to a closed mind. I did explain the differences in a prior post if you're really interested.
Well nothing is impossible when your investigating.. however if the Mexican government has already arrested two people in connection with the incident then it will probably end up being drug smugglers using fast and furious weapons again.
Ballistics tests are more difficult when we're supplying all the weapons!
Sigh.. it appears that stronghorse is a 1 trick pony in all actuality.
Maybe you should change your handle to Brandy from Fox News.
Got a wonderful idea...no more gun manufacturing until the Fast and Furious issue is settled. Let's see which of the red gun running states can hold out without their gun running profits longest.
You said this twice, and it was stupid both times.
A ballistics test is a ballistics test. It doesn't matter where the gun was obtained. A ballistics test determines which weapon fired the round being tested. Friendly fire means the the markings on the slug that was tested matched one of the officers' guns.
Ballistic tests can identify not only the type of weapon used but, if an intact bullet is recovered, match to the exact gun used. If the fatal bullets match the gun of another agent, that would be definite proof of a friendly fire incident. The Mexican authorities arrested 2 men on their side of the border, but those could just be the usual suspects involved in drugs in that area.
Ewent- No thanks, we will keep our guns because loonies like you freak me out.
ewent.....So, your contention is that these mean ol' weapons are the result. Of rednecks gun running states eh ? Well. . . . . . .
Colt Mfg.- Hartford Conn.
Smith & Wesson - Springfield Mass.
Ruger Mfg. - Southport Conn.
Winchester Mfg. - New Haven Conn.
Mossberg Mfg. - North Haven Conn.
ALL are BLUE "Gun Running States" Enjoy your crow......Tasty eh ?
AGREED
Ewent- No thanks, we will keep our guns because loonies like you freak me out.
Well, with all this talk about 'friendly fire' and ballistics and so on, how come no one explains just exactly WHY the friendlies just happened to pull out their weapons and cap one another. Hmmm, that is the 600,000 dollar question that no one is asking here. What made them pull out and discharge their weapons? Did they suddenly all get the urge to shoot at one another for no reason?
Ewent lives in a fairytale land, somewhere free of criminals, illegals, gun runners, drug runners, rapists, and murderers. Ewent isn't aware that there have been 60,000 people killed in Mexico as a result of the narco terrorists who would kill her in a heartbeat if she got in their path. She is also apparently unaware of how those narco terroristas mutilate and torture their victims and she for darn sure isn't aware that Mexico bans gun ownership for ordinary citizens.
And Americans have "blood on their hands" for the 60,000 people killed in Mexico from narco terrorists BECAUSE WE BUY THEIR DRUGS !!! We need to legalize marijuana to stop this bloodshed and start putting hard core American drug addicts in treatment instead of in Joe Arpaios tent cities, we are spinning our wheels and NOT solving the problem.
Experts in the field have suggested the above ways to deal with this problem, but the right wingers freak out at the thought of legalizing pot or not locking up a hard core user, so the problem persists and will continue to forever if we just think we can "lock down the borders." It ain't gonna fix the problem righties !!!
IRONY: I'm going to buy a Dodge Pick-Up (MADE IN MEXICO with stolen US tax dollars) and run over the first Mexi-banger I see!
I'll be driving backwards and without a license, just like a Mexican, so I'll get deferred treatment and the DREAM Act!
This is a damn shame. Time to end the war on drugs folks.
The war on drugs has only made the drug problem worse.
Even William F. Buckley Jr., the father of the conservative movement finally came to that conclusion.
When you take actions to solve a problem, and the results are that every time you take those actions, the problem only gets worse, simple logic dictates that you try to change your tactics.
If you keep getting the opposite effect as a result of your actions, try the opposite of your action.
Decriminalize all drugs. If someone wants to be a junkie, give them their drugs for free. It would be FAR cheaper and the crime rates would plummet.
No one hates this idea more than the drug cartels and pushers.
One of the best definitions of insanity is to repeatedly do the same thing over and over and over again and every time expect the result to change.
We tried it the DEA way it's that way is a proven failure.
Legalize
End the war on drugs and start the bombing of Mexico!
Drugs don't kill people, drug pushing Mexicans kill people.
Nuke Mexico is more like it AND THAT WILL also be the ONLY WAY to prevent them from taking over EVERY LAST STATE IN THIS COUNTRY since the worthless Feds with Obummer at the helm is guaranteed to destroy this country forever.
They are too stupid to see that Mexico has every intension of taking over the United States of America by over running us one state at a time then doing what they do best which is breeding like fly's. Don't believe me, just ask LaRaza what their real goal is.
OwenCoffin: By most standards that would be considered radical , I agree with you. Why? , hmmm , logic dictates and is logical. Go one further , only drugs manufactured inside the proper borders of the United States may be legally sold. Exclude all drugs from big Phama that are not made here. In other words , made you product at a cheap factory outside the country , you can't bring it back in for sale. Manufacture here , employ here , or no sale. Close the flippin' border. U.S for U.S. Create jobs. You can't use Nancy's " Just say no" unless you back yourself up. Some folks don't handle very well. Close the border , can't repeat it enough. Beware La Raza.
Owen, I'm as about as right wing as one can get and.........I absolutely agree with you. The Govt has had plenty of time, and thrown plenty of resources at this problem and not gotten squat done. Now we're some 40 years down the road since Nixon, got us out of one war and into another.
This is the fine result to this point.....We have jails OVER FREAKIN LOADED at the taxpayers expense. We have insurance that have EXPLODED since this "WAR" has begun. You don't think these drug users are WORKING to pay for their drugs do you ? No.......they're stealing from you and me, trucks, cars, tv's, banks and so on.
But here's the main problem now, Mexico is now losing more citizens a year than the US was losing a year in VIETNAM. Sooner or later Mexico's Govt and people, are going to revolt against us. I know if I had lost family members and loved ones, just because the US Govt. is to frigging inept to do anything about it. You just think you know about terrorism. With our southern border being the sieve, that it is.....With an angry motivated group operating in Mexico. Things could get VERY ugly here.
Sorry about the long rant, there wasn't anyway to say it in a few words.
Big Daddy - I agree with all you said with the exception of - You don't thinkg these drug users are WORKING to pay for their drugs do you? No...they're stealing from you and me, trucks, cars, tv's, banks and so on. - dude, you are completely wrong here. I've met a lot of people in my life and travels around the US and world, from doctors to professors to police to lawyers to warehouse workers to janitors and so on that have used drugs and not one of them stole from anyone.
You need to open your eyes and realize that the person working next to you could very well be smoking a joint when they go home from work tonight.
End the war on drugs, one would have to Nuke Mexico to do that.
What?
If you nuke Mexico and not nuke the consumer,the USA,the drugs would come from some other country,so to solve the problem the US would have to be nuked.
Are you willing to do that?.
Would you then nuke all the small towns across America that have aplenty of meth labs? It would devastate those communities!
You can't just stop at small towns across America, you'd have to nuke the CA Emerald Triangle, thousands of houses across the US where people are growing, etc...
If you morons think that the US only consumes drugs from Mexico, you truly are morons...do any of you know any people who smoke pot or do drugs? I've not been around one person in 30 years who would smoke anything from Mexico, it's all grown right here in the USA.
How many drug users in the US are Mexican????
OK....the border agents shot each other....the Mexican authorities arrested two suspects...this incompetence is really serious! Our agents are untrained, unequipped, apparently. ... the Mexican agents are arresting innocent people as suspects....it opens a can of worms. How many suspects turned over to the USA in the past from Mexico are innocent, but doing time in American Prisons for crimes they did not commit.
I personally do not believe these Agents shot each other through "friendly fire" I believe" Fast And Furious " is responsible!
Probably just grabbed a couple of guys off the street so they could say, "Look, we did something about it!".
Friendly fire, isn't.
Are they sure the unharmed agent doesn't work for the cartels?
Well, does this surprise anyone?
Of course Holder and Obama didn't know.
Of course it was friendly fire.
Of course it's an election year.
Not surprised at all.
The Koch brothers bribed the unharmed agent to kill the other two, so Obama would look bad and Romeney would win the election.
Obvious as the nose on your face.
And the Mexican arrested two? That shows that they arrest inocent people just to please the Americans. Also it shows that the American border patrol agents are ready to shoot first and ask later. This is terrible.
They should arrest more... most are illegals or drug runners. They should shoot first.
"The two were in possession of drugs and guns when they were detained, said a source in the same office." yeah they were real innocent...you're a moron.
Speaking of morons. Read the article. The agent was killed by one of the other officers' gun.
The two Mexicans are guilty of possessing guns and drugs, not the murder of the U.S. agent.
Who knows what "the two Mexicans are guilty of possessing guns and drugs" are really guilty of. The Mexican legal system assures that anyone arrested will be found guilty of whatever crime they are charged with.
The article says the lack of criminals in the area at the time.. but weren't the officers responding to a motion senor that alerts them to people in the area...
Yes Brandy, the officers were responding to an alarm from a "motion detector". Can you name anything relatively large (say 20 lbs or more) that moves and is not human???
Friendly fire in the states isn't this called murder. This happens to much just like the cops in NY that shot the nathional guardsman at a traffic stop. MURDER
Also, cops in N.Y. who shot 9 innocent bystanders while shooting at one gunman.
Since the female agent wasn't shot at all, I would say SHE is responsible, if this version of the story is actually true.
Political correctness killed the agent.
close our borders...the media will cover obama a$$ on this just like they are doing with fast & furious and Lybia....more illegals means more democratic voters....shame on the democrats
I believe your right on the money @ abbyya. Seems like another cover up.
Any story that doesn't make Obama look bad, is a cover up, or a lie by the vast liberal media conspiracy. lol.
Use the Heavy Duty Reynolds Wrap. It works better. If you still hear voices, put a stainless steel mixing bowl on your head.
Dude. It's Libya. Rush can spell it.
Abbyga had labia on the mind. Stuck in that freudian stage.
You rwnj's keep forgetting to GROUND your foil hats! I suggest using jumper cables, and grounding to the kitchen sink.
Tsk, and you are of course completely grounded in reality, yup and....you support Obama. Instead of tinfoil hats, you all use blinders and tinfoil earplugs.
My sincere sympathy to the family on their loss. Friendly fire is never friendly. Nor does it make the loss of a loved one less painful. Having said that, I hope our Republican friends will respect the evidence and findings and now back off from their effort to make this agent's death a result of guns shipped to track illegal movement by criminals.
Guns don't kill people, Mexican drug cartels do.
Sam. You're still not paying attention.
Strange the Mexicans arrested two suspects for this "friendly fire" incident. One wonders what evidence is available.
Good point and I wonder if we or his family will ever get the real story on this one. Obama administration is just so good at covering up the truth especially with the liberal media protecting his back all the time.
Evidence? What Evidence? We don't need no stinkin' evidence! Just like your own Republiscum candidates, Senators and Congressmen - we make it up as we go along! Still lookin' for those weapons of mass destruction? Still blaming all of this on Holder? Good job! We thought we'd find somebody to arrest before you did and prevent a lynching!
Yes, I very much blame our incompetent "leaders" at the top. If this was a "friendly fire" incident the cause can be lain directly at Holder's feet. The fear created by the recent outcomes of Fast and Furious undoubtedly contributed directly to the death of this agent.
shoot first, ask questions later doesn't seem like a good strategy.
Finally!
Somebody with the same perception I have.
How the heck is there a "friendly fire" incident on our borders involving Border Patrol?
Somebody is trigger happy.
lets make it three. every once in awhile huge government and the lack of purpose leads to problems.( for the conspiracy theorists, please remember that pat tillman was killed during w's administration. ). if pearl harbor had occurred today, we would have closed hawaii forever. we need to have an immigration and border security policy. then we need to implement that policy. it should not require 10 agencies and two million government employees.
Just because they are saying friendly fire,doesnt mean thats what it was. I would be skeptical of anything the Govt. tells you these days. Just a word of caution when reading anything that the Govt. wants covered up,the whole truth is NEVER what you read from ANY source.
Let me guess....you implicitly believe anything Fox News reports, though?
WHAT?!?!? Does that mean that Saddam DIDN'T have NUKULAR WEAPONS?!?
sam,
Who ever said Saddam had nuclear weapons? If you mean WMDs, that was established under Clintons watch in
the 90s.
Badger1: You're so right and I remember when Clinton talked about it.
Badger1 - Of course. Iraq was CLINTON's war not BUSH's! What a memory you have! NOT!!
ZihuaRob: You're so right it was CLINTON's war. He was too busy in the Oval Office doing other things with Monica to be concerned about the 3+years the terrorists were planning the attack. I remember when he declared he was cutting back on the CIA because the Cold War was over anyway and we didn't need to be concerned about it anymore. What a joke Clinton was and he's a "god" to the Chinese people because of the Chinese Trade Agreement enacted during his term. Remember when Clinton said it would create millions of jobs for Americans, NOT.
ZihuaRob
Put the koolaid down. I never said the war was Clintons. I said the investigation and confirmation of WMDs was started under Clintons watch. Do you understand the difference? Do I have to draw you a picture?
Go to utube and search: President Clinton orders attack on Iraq. watch the C-span video
Badger1
And that's why they required Iraq to dismantle and regularly sent in inspectors who found NOTHING but that didn't sit will with Bush/Cheney who wouldn't take "there's no longer a credible threat and there's zero evidence that Iraq had anything to do with 9/11" for an answer and wanted from day 1 of their administration to get rid of Saddam to finish what Sr. hadn't in their opinion.
Jed7
Hans the inspector gave them 1 months notice before they went in, now these chemical weapons are turning up in Syria. So you believe Clinton and all his intell buddies had it wrong also? Where did I say Iraq had anything to do with 9/11? All I am saying is that WMDs started before Bush Jr. took office. The left blames Bush for no WMDs but fail to remember the previous administration are the ones that were convinced without a shadow of a doubt, Saddam had WMDs. You do realize, left or right administrations still hand over their intelligence info to the next president. Where do you think Bin Laden and his buddies where getting their funding from? Saudia Arabia is one and I am willing to bet Iraq was another. I'm sure the U.S. intelligence agency had a paper(money) trail to follow. Even though terrorists have no designated country, they have sponsors.
Kinda pulls the rug out from under the Right Wingers Fast-n-Furious conspiracy. But then, the Wingers get a lot of rugs pulled on them.
Yes, we saw your great leader tripping all over said rug during that debate.
If your reference was to Obama's cover up perhaps you should educate yourself- he has much to hide on that one.
Interesting how they are saying this now. This is a lie and dont believe it. Folks around these parts dont believe it either. This is the Obama administration trying to save face. What a load of crap. If they knew that then Holder should have come out and said it. Lies from as administration so clost to election. Lies like when by law Lockheed was forced to lay off because of no balanced budget. Lockhhed by law needs to notify workers 60 days in advance. That would have been this week. Obama administration came out and said dontlay them off and if you (Lockheed) get in trouble, we'll cover you. They said this just before jobs report came out. This is a corrupt administration.
cadmancan: It's called CHICAGO STYLE POLITICS and all the dumb liberal followers believe all this crap.
This is the reason that you are not supposed to fire until fired upon, that immediatley removes the posibility of friendly fire.
They're idiots.
That's should be the golden rule, even for domestic law enforcement.
What a cluster... First thing I thought when Mexico arrested two suspects was "yea, right." Now this?
"State and federal officials said immediately after the incident that the shootings were committed by armed criminals" So what was it? Patrolman trying an attempt at CYA before ballistics report? False claims, false arrests.