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Subscribe to RSSA proposed new tax in Cook County, Ill., home of violence-plagued Chicago, takes aim at guns, and gun rights activists aren't happy about it.
County President Toni Preckwinkle wants to introduce a "violence tax" on guns and ammunition to help plug a $115 million budget gap in 2013. Under the tax, guns and ammunition would cost more, according to the Chicago Sun-Times, but Preckwinkle isn't saying how much more just yet.
The aim of the proposal is to curb the number of guns in circulation, Preckwinkle's chief of staff, Kurt Summers, told the newspaper. Summers cited a report from last summer showing that nearly one-third of the guns recovered on the Chicago's streets were purchased in suburban gun shops.
The idea follows a violent Chicago summer, when some weekends saw multiple people killed and dozens injured in shootings. The city's murder rate is up 25 percent and the Cook County Jail is near capacity, with 9,000-plus inmates.
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"If it's going to deal with crime, I'm all for it," said Vincent Fracassi, who says he is not a gun owner.
But some residents questioned how much this would raise for the county and whether the tax would really cut down on crime.
"If we can tax cigarettes, it seems we can tax bullets and guns," said Chicago resident Cathryn Taylor. "But at the same time, I get the point that if people are buying the stuff illegally, then the tax doesn't matter because they aren't going through legal channels anyway."
Brandi Swafford said she doesn't think it will be effective. "You can get this from anywhere. You can go outside the city. There's always a way to get something illegally."
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No such tax exists in Illinois, experts say, but two bills that would create an explicit tax on ammunition are in consideration in the Illinois Legislature.
Elsewhere in the country, Tennessee has an ammunition tax, the Chicago Sun-Times reported. And right now, guns and ammunition sold across the country are subject to a federal excise tax that funds conservation projects. In Illinois, the local sales tax rate is applied to such purchases.
Preckwinkle's budget proposal is set to be unveiled Oct. 18, and an ammunition tax isn't the only potential money maker on the table. The board president reportedly wants to lease the top two floors of the County Building in Chicago's Loop for what she estimates could net at least $1 million a year for 10 years.
NBC News staff contributed to this report.
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this is one of the reasons I moved out of Chicago. The government is going to make it harder to protect yourself and your family. Only crooks will have guns. When the government takes away your guns they also take away your freedom.
Unbelievable! Taxation without representation...
Next...a black-market for ammo! Nice liberals, very nice!
Sheeesh!
It's the government that always need juuuuust a little more.
Actually this is genius. They can have the County tax agents chase after the gang bangers after they do a drive-by to see if they have a paid receipt for their guns and ammo. Couldn't do worse than the PD or Rahm Emanuel.
This gives you an idea of what these "elite elected officials" will do to "balance their budget". Doesn't matter if these folks pass legislation, rules, or regulations BANNING WEAPONS, the "crooks" and "gang bangers" will get them anyway. Heck, all the "crooks" have to do is go to the next county and get the weapons.
BTW: Expect this TAX to go all the way to the State Supreme Court and eventually SCOTUS, as if our judicial system isn't already loaded to the brim with more important cases.
One word for these "elite elected officials": IDIOTS.
The government has figured out there's good money in violence.
Most gang members come from single mother homes. How about a bastard tax to discourage breeding criminals.
Or like in NYC just call the local police sargent and put in your order.
This is simply more nonsense by those anti-gun zealots whose goal is to make firearms ownership as difficult and expensive as possible.
This is complete and utter BS because while some of the guns can be traced back to legal purchases, I guarantee they were stolen and used by the gangbangers. This is a fact they conveniently omit because gangbangers absolutely do not purchase their guns legally. They steal them or buy them on the street from somebody else that stole them.
They think they'll get money from these taxes and frustrate legal gun owners at the same time. A win-win situation for them, they think, except there are numerous ways around this obvious anti-gun nonsense. That said, this is Chicago, what else would one expect.
Wow they never consider spending cuts, just ways to pick more $$$ from the taxpayers. All politicians need to be shipped to a tiny island and stripped of all their $$$$ and find a way back and get taxed to get back in.
Brillant. let those who own their guns begin to complain, perhaps now we will come up with solutions by getting the owners to think, no doubt taxes will do it.
Sounds a lot like dumb just got dumber.
Chicago is sliding down the path to become another Detroit.
"County President Toni Preckwinkle wants to introduce a "violence tax" on guns and ammunition to help plug a $115 million budget gap in 2013."
Dear Toni, thanks for being honest as to the intent.
"The aim of the proposal is to curb the number of guns in circulation." No, That is not true. Read the article again. The aim of the proposal is to plug a budget gap according to Toni Periwinkle.
This form of proposed plugging is bordering on infringement of the second amendment, and is guaranteed to stir up emotions needlessly. This is both stupid and dangerous. Toni should be canned.
"If we can tax cigarettes, it seems we can tax bullets and guns," said Chicago resident Cathryn Taylor.
No Cathryn, that is not how rule by law works, but thanks for showing the effects of public education in Chicago. Their is no Amendment covering the right to own cigarettes, so you can tax it as much as the people will allow before they vote you out of office. However, taxing gun ownership is infringing on that ownership. Remember now Cathryn, it was your city and Detroit that gave rise to the Kennedy dynasty during prohibition. At that time, there was in force a constitutional amendment that made alcohol illegal. Canada made it legal to sell alcohol to people like Kennedy. Kennedy bought it and sold it to the mob. After sufficient hundreds died in alcohol related gang violence, another constitutional amendment made it legal once again to sell alcohol, but the damage was done and we were stuck with a very wealthy Joe Kennedy which gave us the Kennedy political dynasty which gave us Vietnam, Amnesty for illegals, and Obama Care. Being drunk would have been much better.
that will really help stop crime. I think the officials in Chicago have totally lost it. What a bunch of dumbasses.
Agreed
Another idiot politician that thinks the criminals get their guns legally or care what they pay for them. Everything that has ever come out of Chicago is stupid, worthless, and criminal.
Quick, buy a storefront in Whiting, IN, sell ammo through drive through windows -- make a fortune. Just like cigarettes, gas, food, alcohol and WALMART, Whiting can become Chicago's retail arm for illinois residents avoiding taxation and unionization.
Yeah baby - capitalism at work arbing taxes.
This is typical of all major Democrat controlled big city's,it's like all the wild animalsare drawn to them. I have always said you can take the animal out of the wild but you can not take the wild out of the animals. All you have to do is look at what they did to Detroit- Gary In.-Hammond In. - South Chicago Beloit Il. and Milwaukee Wi. Atlanta Ga. and the list never stops.
Amazing, just amazing! This will have at least 4 unintended consequences. 1. A thriving black market in gun and ammo in the $hitcago metro area. 2. The closing of legitimate gun/ammo stores in the affected area due to plummeting sales. 3. In the end, less revenue collected due to significantly lower gun and ammo sales in $hitcago. 4. More empty retail stores, more urban blight. Liberals are so GD stupid!
Will the local police have their ammo and guns taxed as well?
WTF? Those that have been involved with most shootings in Chicago didn't buy their guns legally so how do they separate the good from the even worse here?
Yep! it makes no sense at all to catch, prosecute and fine the violent criminals. Punish the whole "class" and push your anti second amendment right agenda at the same time. What a crock.
YES!!! Finally, someone gets it. It really is the bullets that kill.
There are NO instances of gunshot wounds that don't happen without a gun and bullets.
Put a $100.00 for each bullet tax on bullets and you will see the use of guns drop dramatically.
dirp...
Wow...right out of the "Liberalism for Dummies" handbook, I see...
Can we enact a federal and state "stupidity tax"? The feds could get alot of revenue from Chicago.
Next we will have a tax on spoons and forks. If not for them we wouldnt be such a over weight society. NOT!
@dirp...How about cracking down on the criminals. Without them the "guns" wouldnt ever be involved in crimes. WHAT AN IDIOT!!
here's a thought. Why don't the city charge people, whom are guilty, in jail, for their crimes? charge them say $10,000 per person, and a yearly fee for the no of years they're in jail. That can bring in revenue, and discourage people from commiting them the first time. Criminals can't afford it? then seize all their assets and pursue all future earnings, paychecks etc. Tell me why the heck does the rest of us law-abidding citizens need to pay to keep criminals behind bars, especially it's their own decision to break the law?
@DirtyDog200
"The government has figured out there's good money in violence."
Especially when they are the ones committing the violence.
What is wrong with that state ????????????????????
You can not get blood from a stone and you sure can't get tax money from gang bangers. All their guns and ammo are stolen !!!!!
Liberals never cease to amaze me. Instead of going after the root of the problem {Gangs of Chicago}, they decide to attack the law abiding citizens with another tax that would do absolutely nothing to curb the violence in Chicago. Where is the outcry from people in these neighborhoods? Where is Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton & any other community organizers or politicians in these districts to help these communities? Instead, Liberals place the blame & direct their agenda where it suits them best regardless if it is right or not. Too much government, no more taxes & leave our 2nd admendment alone. Liberal reality is a figment of their hallcination!!! MY GUNS, MY RIGHTS, MY FREEDOM
If you buy into the argument of risk assessment then youd have to include the race of the people committing the crime. A special assessment of say 5,000 per minority family should cover it. This risk assessment is already part of our lives. Teenagers who drive cars pay a lot more for insurance based on this risk assessment.
@Fire Them All,
Before you ridicule Kathryn's "Chicago education," maybe you should check the graduation standards of whatever Republican trailer park you came from.
In your kooky, conspiracy-laden rant about the Kennedys, I need to correct you on a number of things. It was Lyndon Johnson, not JFK, who escalated Vietnam, and Republican Richard Nixon who perpetuated it. There is virtually no Kennedy connection to Obamacare, either. While it's true that the Kennedys (and the Clintons, too) supported the idea of health care reform, none of them came close to getting it off the ground. If Obamacare has a progenitor, it's Mitt Romney, who actually signed the individual mandate into law when he was the governor of Massachusetts.
Finally, The Constitution and the Second Amendment. The Second Amendment was conceived at a time of political instability. Nobody knew whether this great American experiment was going to work, or if we would end up with a tyrant as bad as King George. It was never intended to be absolute. It was certainly never intended to cater to a bunch of self-indulgent, hillbilly half-wits who still haven't outgrown their Rambo fantasies at the expense of the rest of us (i.e. actual intelligent grown-ups who abandoned guns along with their Star Wars figures a long time ago).
David Stat
So opinionated for someone who pro-claims to be of such intellect. Oh whats that, not as grown up as you say you are? Nice try though, but don't mistaken that stick up your arse as a pedestal. Also, last time I checked Star Wars was way more popular and more successful than you are. Here's a Star Wars blaster looking at you buddy.
I am an outspoken conservative Constitutionalist that has been arguing in this forum for many years with ill-informed people who think they are liberals and vote Democrat because they are ignorant of reality. It is heartwarming to see such a drastic flip in the status quo here. I have noticed that, over the last few months, More and more people here tend to be coming to the realization that the world is not as simple as the liberal mind believes it to be. The world is a tough place and humans will never work in the congress and unity that they so desire. The road to hell is paved with good intentions. Simply because something sounds like a good idea, doesn't mean it needs to be law. Making a law or levying a tax should equate to pulling the plug on a sick loved one. These are things you do as a last resort, not on a whim.
David Stat...
Sorry pal, the 2nd amendment to the Constitution guarantees my RIGHT to firearms. Take your liberal, yellow-belly ideas to, let's see...maybe Canada or someplace. This is the United States and guns are LEGAL here.
Maybe you should go back to playing with your Star Wars characters...
...actual intelligent grown-ups who abandoned guns
Really, now tell the truth...you've never picked up a gun in your entire liberal life, have you?
@David...how the HELL do you know what they intended?? Have you been in touch with ANY of them? OH, I forgot you are one of the enlightened liberals who just happen to know more than anybody else, right? The constitution is what it is. Just admit it, you and the other libs here just cant stand that piece of paper. I KNOW your bozo prez doesnt! ALSO under THIS king we may fail as a country! GET OVER IT...WE OWN WEAPONS AND ALWAYS WILL!! To protect us from a gov. LIKE THIS ONE!!
Instead of adding a tax to ammunition and guns for those that just want to protect their families, why don't they have the politicians do a few days on the beat with the policemen? They might be thankful honest people have guns to help save lives.
If the politicians really had to do the walk and the talk of normal civil servants and working people a week every month to help bring down the deficit, they might start to earn their pay.
But in Chicago, they would probably pay bribes to get out of it. In my opinion.
Finding another way to tax the white man to support the black man's crimes. Someone has to pay the bills in this country. White people have hobbies, obey the law, pay their taxes, so find out what they do and figure out how to tax it.
Anyone remember taxing tanning beds?
@David,
Your remarks are insulting to say the least. If you and your damn liberal buddies don't like the constitution, then by all means change it. There is a process to do that. It is called a Constitutional Amendment. Ignoring the Constitution or the Bill of Rights like your leader did when he killed an American citizen without due process is not only not legal, it makes him an enemy of the constitution.
As to Kennedy not being involved in VietNam, who do you think it was that sent in the advisors in the first place and got the process going? Washington?
No Kennedy connection to Obama Care? Who do you think it was that pushed for it his entire political hack career?
Finally, you folks that "know"what the founding fathers thought so long ago simply amaze me. The truth is, if you can handle the truth, the constitution is the basis for our republic. A republic is rule by law, not rule by men like yourself that are willing to ignore the law when it is convenient. And the sooner this nation gets back to some fundamentals and understands that rule by law is what we are about, is what guarantees us our freedoms from zealots like yourself and the current occupant of the white house, the sooner this nation will heal, the sooner there will be opportunity for even the poor slobs in Chicago, and the sooner people like you with your ignore the law BS will be put to the sidelines where you belong. The term Moron comes to mind when I think of your response. Why is that I wonder?
@David Stat. The only "half-wit" here is you. The 2nd amendment WAS designed to be absolute and, in fact, states that this right "Shall not be infringed". SO, every law limiting the ownership and possession of an "ARM" is unconstitutional. ALSO, Those Hill-billy half-wits defeated the English and won the very freedom you enjoy today. If ever there was a time of political unrest in this country (other than the Civil War), it is now. You have no idea how tired of ignorant communists, like yourself, we have grown and the days of appeasement are coming to a close. Our fore-fathers made no "temporary orders" using the Constitution. Mitt Romney is a REPUBLICAN. You do understand that you live in a Republic, NOT a Democracy, right? The 70 page bill, that was approved by MA voters, is VERY different than the 2074 page bill that was shoved up all our 4sses. I didn't get a chance to vote on 5hit, did you?
AlienMartian: the 2nd Amendment was written and designed for two purposes, to ensure that there would be a well trained (they used regulated) militia would be available to fight if needed and to prevent the federal government from having all of the military power.
Since the US Government has a standing military. And since there are restrictions on the type of weapons which people can have (NO Bozooka's for you !!!) the original intent of the 2nd amendment has been eliminated by progress.
All we are left with is the dregs of the original words, with none of the original intent left. That and a few thousand dead people, most of them unintentional deaths of relatives.
But hey, at least you got your gun.
No one is saying you can't have guns. If you want a gun, then you can pay for that priviledge. You have to pay for the gun, you have to pay for the ammo - you should have to pay a tax to get both. In fact, I don't believe it's far enough. I think that there should be a yearly licesne, and you should have to show up with the weapons or have an agent come to your home to verify that these weapons are in your possession, and verify that they haven't been used in crimes. It doesn't preclude you owning them, but if you're going to be a responsible gun owner, you need to take responsibility all around even if it means paying extra taxes.
debnran
This article wasn't even about gun ownership. It was about Chicago trying to fill a $115 million budget gap by taxing guns and ammo. Why should I be taxed for something just because I own it legally and have never shot a person in my life? Perhaps Toni Preckwinckle should learn two other words: budget cuts.
...or have an agent come to your home to verify that these weapons are in your possession, and verify that they haven't been used in crimes...
OMG!!! Yea, let's raise taxes again so we can employ more GOVERNMENT agents to come to my home for obeying the law and the Constitution. You are in desperate need of a frontal lobotomy!
You people in Illinois deserve the type of gov. you're getting. It's hard to believe that you are hoodwinked by a politician named Wrinkledprick (or something like that) wanting to institute a violence tax - all he really wants is more tax $$ and he will get it from you by saying it will help deter crime and make you safer. Bullsh*t, most of this type of crime occurs in the city of Chicago - which has very strict gun laws that simply don't work! What makes you think a tax on guns and ammo will do any better - I can't believe the depth of ignorance you people show - there ought to be a law against you for being so stupid!
So wrong.............yet so funny!
Heck, the criminals will not pay taxes. They will just rob whomever has what they want. It will not matter who they are or if they wear uniforms. It will just stay as bloody until the problem is taken care of.
Gtouch...
Are they hatched? If not, Mike may be on to something, here.
So much fear in America. how about we undo the de-regulation by republicans and go back to an economy that has a job for everyone? nahh so much fun to hate and fear.
I LOVE IT!!! Nickle and dime the gun laws to death just like the Republicans are doing to women's right to choose!!!
Being in Tennessee I never knew other states didn't have an ammo tax. Now I'm off to look up how much the ammo tax is.
I don't recall having read many, if any, reports of upstanding citizens using weapons to protect themselves. You know, like 'girl shoots rapist', 'old lady shoots burglar', 'woman shoots carjacker', 'workers shoot chief financial officer for embezzlement', 'daughter shoots father for sexual abuse', 'group shoots investment bankers for - I don't know, you name it', 'citizens shoot mayor for corruption', 'grieving parents shoot president and vice-president for illegal war', 'soldier shoots partner for slaughtering huddled family of women and children', 'drivers shoot oil company execs for price manipulation', 'workers shoot board members for shutting factory and moving it overseas for their own increased profit', 'bystander shoots cops for beating homeless drunk', 'passenger shoots angry highway patrol for tazing grandmother who is slow in producing license', 'judge shoots officers for selling confiscated drugs'. Need I go on? Oh, one more, 'readers shoot writers for poisonous comments'.
Just protecting ourselves, right? Of course, sometimes there are accidents, 'little kid playing with dad's gun shoots baby sister', 'father shoots son walking by window at night', 'guard shoots naked student', 'pedestrians mown down in hail of stray bullets from law enforcers pursuing running man'.
Can't be helped, protection has its innocent victims, collateral damage. Um, I think I feel safer.
The aim of the proposal is to curb the number of guns in circulation
bs they already said it is to help plug a $115 million budget gap in 2013
they can't budget so they're going to steal it from you. next yr another frivolous excuse for a tax. one day the public will absolutely have no money for one tax...then what are they going to do?
brit in pit
1/2 of the examples you listed would not be in the upstanding citizens catagory but instead be pre meditated murder and man slaughter.
A Violence tax ....wow...don't stop there!
On booze = drunk tax
On teenage boy pants = butt-crack tax
On cell phones = texting while driving tax
On dining room tables = family argument at Christmas tax
On shoes = sidewalk wear down tax
On breathing = CO2 emissions tax
shaking head......
Illinois desperately needs a politician tax. Something akin to 2x their yearly salary with no loopholes. Plus a $10 million dollar tax on each bill they propose that raises taxes (Or fees or mandatory contributions.) and $20 million tax to each politician that votes for that bill.
If the tax is too high, I would also accept a good old fashioned tar and feathering. In fact just screw it all and let's just go with a good old fashioned tar and feathering of all the politicians anytime someone damn well feels like it....
I've got no problem with such a tax...
...once other rights also have taxes imposed on them (for example, a tax on speaking, a tax on voting, a tax on requesting a jury trial, a tax on avoiding cruel and unusual punishment, a tax on opting out of unreasonable searches and seizures, a tax on due process, etc...). This should raise a lot of money and keep a lot of idiots from spewing nonsense, voting, fighting for their freedom, avoiding torture... The county could be solvent within 100 years!!!
gtouch
So wrong.............yet so funny!
------ I laughed hard at this one, but I had to wait for someone else to say it. Thanks for stepping up.
It's about time they taxed guns and ammo - they have taxed everything else for years! The people who feel the need to fire off a gun should have to pay a "Noise Tax" as everyone else has to put up with all the noise.
concerned...you should be concerned with having no brain. stupid ass libs.
"No one is saying you can't have guns. If you want a gun, then you can pay for that priviledge."
@Debnran (post# 1.40),
Gun ownership is a RIGHT, not a "privilege" you dumb @!$%#
Way to go New York City, Chicago beat you to it. New York City is wishing they had thought of this first, to show they are the gun control capital of the nation. This country is getting worse and worse every day.
Hey Mike-(with some numbers because you're too much of a bitch to use your real name) you say gang-bangers mostly come from single mother homes...would that be because there are so many "DEAD-BEAT DADS" out there that just bounce on their kids after they're not with the mother anymore....seems like that would be something the "ABSENT" man should take the rap for!
So all the law biding gun owners trying to protect themselves and their families will end up paying the tax and all the criminals will get their guns and ammunition illegally and pay no tax. I guess that is your government at work for you.
Exactly right! Make the law abiding citizens pay and the crooks get of tax free. Now that makes a lot of sense. Leave it up to the liberals to come up with these asinine ideas. The criminals are probably laughing their socks off at the Chicago politicians now.
Exactly right! Make the law abiding citizens pay and the crooks get of tax free. Now that makes a lot of sense. Leave it up to the liberals to come up with these asinine ideas. The criminals are probably laughing their socks off at the Chicago politicians now.
The criminals are the Chicago Politicians. Of course the biggest @!$%# from Chicago will be coming home soon. DICKHEAD obama. Oh wait. He and his crack "hoe" moochelle are heading back to where he imagrated from Kenya to!!!
A law should be passed to allow seizure of personal assets for people using guns in a crime. Use one in a crime and the house, car, and cash go to taxpayers. Call it a "Dumb A Criminal Gun Tax".
IXLR8
99% of the a$$ holes using the guns don't have a house, car or money. Most of them are fed & housed by tax payers anyway.
Aren't they pretty much one and the same?
the criminals, at least the ones that aren't smoking what they claim to be selling keep all their assets in a relatives name,
i grew up in Florida where all the crack dealers would drive a number of different cars, all registered to some one else in their family, so when they got caught, they would just have the relative who the car was registered to get it out of impound, one used to come into a local gas station i worked at,
about once a month he would come into the store and the cars would all have a different paint job,
he must have thought the change in color would fool the cops, even though that was the only thing that changed about the cars, same wheels and every thing else.
IXLR8
A law should be passed to allow seizure of personal assets for people using guns in a crime. Use one in a crime and the house, car, and cash go to taxpayers. Call it a "Dumb A Criminal Gun Tax".
Good idea but most dont own anything. At least the ones actually commiting the crime anyway. Now their bosses on the other hand have quite the lot.
IXLR8::::: How can you seize anything from these animals when most only own a cell phone-gold chain and a car [most likely stolen] ???????
This isn't a dem or repub issue (though I know the left side tends to be more anti gun and is more have a handout usually - as always though I see them both as a poison a or b and continue to hope for option c, neither) but rather shortsighted ignorant politicians who have lost touch with reality. It clear how dumb this idea is, most of us here can see it, and that yet again this is a gun control related plan that only hurts those following the law when the issue is with those that don't follow the law.
Also riddle me this, as this is enacted and likely slows the sale of guns and ammo thus reducing the income that is plugging this hole, what new tax will they enact or will the reduce this one to keep that hole or the next one plugged? I see these tax plans all the time and when it is said they are to fill a budget gap it really makes me wonder, more like killing the golden goose so to speak if you ask me, but hey these are politicians so one wouldn't expect them to come up with meaningful tax and cost reduction plans.
At the end of the day the final result would be little to no change in crime and another tax that punishes those that follow the law. I'm all for better gun control and enforcement and review and tightening of current laws but plans like this won't solve the problem. Same goes for groups like the NRA, that I applaud for fighting for the second amendment, though at the same time add to the problem and don't want to face reality it seems. Its clear we need to do some house cleaning and start finding ways to work together and get meaningful lasting solutions to this growing list of problems we have. I just hope we can do it sooner than later because I'm afraid it will be to late before long.
It is time
this $#!thole where i have been living for the past 10 years of Massachusetts tried a "SIN TAX" a couple of years ago, but since was repealed because mainly the idiot politician who the tax was originally written by and sponsored by, was caught in the so called tax free state of New Hampshire buying his alcohol at a state liquor store.
it would be funny to see the same happen to the idiot politicians that came up with this moronic idea of continuing the oppression of the honest hard working people as they want to think the criminals will actually buy their weapons and ammo legally.
the whole country needs to stop allowing idiots to get in positions of authority.
All of you must have poor criminals because ours have boats, caddys, and nice houses from the crack and oxy sales. I feel privileged to know our local drug dealers and robbers have a higher standard of living. But in the end, we come to reposses all that ill gotten booty.
This idea isn't all bad, it's just half baked.
What might be worthwhile would be that ammunition sold in Cook County must have a tax stamp affixed to the package. How much that stamp would cost would be up to the local politicians to work out, but the important detail would be a couple of specific exemptions from this tax:
Anyone could apply for and receive, based upon some merit, one or more 'exemptions', or 'free' tax stamps, equating to boxes of ammunition not taxed by the county. Again, this would have to be worked out, but the idea would be that if you are lawfully possessing a handgun (that's the 'some merit' part; you'd have to prove you're a legal resident free of any felony or domestic assault misdemeanor convictions, restraining orders, and arrest warrants.), for instance, you could buy one box of hollowpoint personal protection cartridges and up to some reasonable number of full metal jacket target cartridge boxes in the same caliber per calendar year. If you hunt, you could apply for some reasonable number (which would have to be determined) of boxes of shotshells or whatever other ammunition usable for hunting the game the current or recently expired hunting license you present with your application is for. Pheasant? You're okay for some untaxed shotshells. Moose? Some high power rifle. Squirrel? Some .410 or .22. But probably no pistol cartridges on an application for 'hunting 'exemptions! It might only be a box or two, given that there's not a lot of hunting in and around Chicago but that one may wish to locally acquire and have on hand a few shells or cartridges instead of buying them all at or near your field destination.
The idea is that it's an urban area with relatively few places to do any legitimate shooting outside of trying to save yourself in an emergency. You wouldn't be locally taxed on ammunition with which to defend yourself or to maintain basic proficiency with that firearm. Even better, ammunition sold by a club for immediate use on the premises (we're talking any ranges where guns are sold/rented that may be in the area, naturally those places also sell ammunition!) would be tax free, but you need to use it up right away. It can't go out the door without a tax stamp.
If one box of premium 9mm or .40 caliber (as an example) personal protection cartridges and maybe half a dozen boxes of FMJ target rounds (Six boxes would be 300 cartridges) isn't enough, then you merely pay the per box tax to buy more if you have to do it in Cook County. Realistically, most people in big cities who keep guns seldom shoot even one box per year most of the time. Don't want to mess with filling out an application or afraid you can't prove you're entitled to a handful of tax free boxes every year? No one's making you do it...just pay the tax and buy the stamp that goes on the ammunition box. Just don't get caught in the county after a certain date with ammunition in a box that doesn't have a tax stamp on it, whether it shows 'PAID' or 'EXEMPT'.
Would this stop anyone not supposed to have ammunition from acquiring it? No, not really. Would it raise much money? Probably not a huge amount. It would probably make someone stop and think about making frequent ammunition purchases. If you could get 350 rounds of pistol cartridges exempt from tax per year, you might occasionally buy one or two and pay the tax. But more likely than not, if you're legit, you do most of your actual shooting elsewhere or you belong to a club with a range (if there's even any in the Chicago area. I wonder...) where you could shoot tax free all day long. If you keep showing up having to buy the stamp, it would stand out as a bit unusual. Most gun shops have video surveillance these days as they are a robbery and burglary target. Want to keep buying ammunition in front of the camera like that? That would make most outlaws a bit nervous since they'd no longer look like an ordinary member of the public anymore and are being recorded while they're conspicuous.
Something to think about, anyway. Given how populated the area is and that Illinois does not issue permits to carry firearms, there's not a lot of recreational shooting of any type done there and therefore not very much legitimate demand for ammunition in Chicagoland.
The first amendment does not exclude taxes as sales taxes already apply. Are conservatives so poor as a group that moderate taxes will impede their right to bear arms? There's no outcry from those on the right who don't smoke or drink who cheer taxes on cigarettes and liquor being fair because of the burdens these "sins" cost society but want a pass on guns. Sin taxes which exceed $5 a pack many places are imposed mostly on the poor and minorities and you have no problem. What does gun violence cost this country every year and why shouldn't those that buy them pay to offset these costs? If you can't afford to pay a few dollars to buy guns and ammo you shouldn't own any anyway.
tax, the language of the libs.
the TiGor,
I disagree with the premise that someone can take a stupid law and make it workable. Especially so when the solution is to have some government body impose and handle some type of document/taxation system. First there will be a net lost of money for the government. Those government employees will cost much more than the taxes they collect. Second, anyone wanting to buy ammunition will find a second source from somewhere around the country so the taxing area will lose both taxable income from the drop in employment and loss of income from the drop in sales tax. Third, you post does not say how this nutty idea will reduce gang gun ownership or violence in any way.
So, taken together, this looks like it has a good chance of passing. It is bad for ordinary people, bad for the local economy, increases the number of government workers, does not have any effect on gang violence and makes great 6:00 news footage. Yup, I think it has an excellent chance of passing. But will fail judicial review, as it should.
I agree but it will be the people who voted for these phony jackass politicians they'll be laughing at. Is it any wonder why Illinois has the most politicians in prison on felon convictions than any other state - the people keep voting these losers into office - like I said the Illinois people are among the most stupid people on the face of the earth! Illinois is one of the only states on my list of states that I will never set foot in - another is New York.
Compared to a lot of laws in a lot of places, it wouldn't be all that stupid. The issue is you've got an area with a lot of people in it but, by necessity, a very low amount of ammunition consumption by law abiding citizens. When there are few to no places where you can lawfully discharge a firearm, a box of cartridges can very likely last a legitimate user for years. Most of the ammunition being fired in and around Chicago is being shot at other people in attempted homicides by people who are illegally carrying firearms (In Chicago, that's pretty much anyone who is not law enforcement or a city alderman, who are also considered to be law enforcement officers), and probably not legally able to even possess them in most cases (underage, prior felony convictions, addicted to drugs, etc.).
I would guess that the county treasurer's office would handle this. They're already there, and have been for a good long time. They exist to collect property taxes, and where I live, they also handle vehicle registrations and license plates on behalf of the state. At the most, this could add a person or two to the office, but it very likely may not. It would be pretty 'low drag' in nature.
The normal tax stamp would be a paper sticker that comes off a roll and is affixed to the ammunition package at the time of purchase. Any gun dealers with a retail location in the county would normally 'sell' them on behalf of the county. Let's say the county were to decide the tax per box would be $10. A straight, over the counter purchase of a $15 box of ammunition would $15, plus the $10 tax stamp, plus whatever sales tax is in Chicago these days, so it'd be $25 plus governor's share to buy that box of cartridges, and at the most your ID might have been checked to make sure you were of legal age to buy it, which is 21 for handgun cartridges or 18 for rifle or shotgun. The stamp goes on the box before the clerk hands it to you, and off you go.
Now, mind you, you're not likely to find very many gun dealers in Chicago. Most will be in the suburbs, but a lot of what they sell will end up in Chicago, especially if it's handguns and handgun cartridges. This is why Cook County is looking at this, and not the City of Chicago.
For the 'exemption' I described as being a vital part of the plan, they could do it any way they want to. I'm not a resident of Illinois or the Chicago area, though my family is from there and I have immediate family either living there or who have recently lived there. I really don't have a dog in that fight, though. The elected officials out there get to figure this stuff out and it doesn't affect me one way or the other. It would seem reasonable, however, that one way of doing this would be to make the exemption in the form of a punch card you would acquire at the treasurer's office. The clerk would basically just give it to you if you show up and ask for it, with maybe a proviso or two involved. It could be that you'd have to show the Firearms Owners Identification card that Illinois requires gun owners to have, for instance, or perhaps the current or last years' hunting license if that's what you want ammunition for. Otherwise, I could foresee that one might have to fill out an affidavit declaring that one lawfully possesses 'such and such' firearm at home. That affidavit is stamped with an official stamp at the office and each year you present it to receive your punch cards with bear the current year in a prominent place (similar to a registration sticker on your license plate). If you lose the affidavit or it falls apart from age or use, just fill out a new one at the office. Buy a box of cartridges from a dealer, either buy the tax stamp from the dealer, too, or else present your punch card and the 'price' of the tax stamp becomes a hole punched in your card. If you end up with six punches (or whatever number is decided upon, maybe six boxes is far too many for most people there) then you buy tax stamps for boxes bought after that through December 31.
The key is that you really do not have to pay the tax to have a basic supply of ammunition for lawful use in the Chicago area. But you can if you want to, or else if you really are buying a lot of ammunition for some personal use, which would be what??? Remember, this is Chicago we're talking about here.
The line at the treasurer's office might be a bit longer, but that's about it. Without many places to shoot, about the only reason to possess ammunition there is to feed a gun kept for home defense. If you buy a box of cartridges today, most likely it's the only box you're going to need for years to come. Yes, you should get out and shoot fairly often. But in a large city, that's hard to do, so it generally isn't done. The same clerk handling everything else handles this too. The printing of the tax stamps, exemption cards, etc., is contracted out to a print shop.
Really not a problem. Since you most likely have to take your gun with you and travel somewhere else to use it (especially hunting, but also target shooting in many cases), buy the ammunition there, use it, and don't bring any back. But, you could, and be legal, by buying a Cook County tax stamp at the treasurer's office or through a gun dealer by presenting the recei
Any other questions from anyone?
Just to clarify, I'm not recommending or advocating this, just stating that this the way this could be done and actually be worthwhile and not harmful to everyone.
But, naturally, the way it's outlined in the article is probably the way it will go down so everyone gets hammered, no exceptions. Sad but true!
The power to tax is the power to destroy.
If a tax goes through watch it steadily and unwaveringly CLIMB until it has simply taxed the product out of the market.
That is the goal...isn't it?
Liberal solution to every problem... tax it. What a joke... of course this would come out of Chicago.
Of course it would come out of Chicago where Obama came from. This way the law abiding citizens are paying and the mafia types that Obama and Axelrod are associated with go free. This is how this bunch operates. Let Obama take his family and move back there in 2013.
That SOP for the Democrat
If you buy into the argument of risk assessment then youd have to include the race of the people committing the crime. A special TAX of say 5,000 per minority family per year should cover it. Teenagers who drive cars pay a lot more for insurance based on this risk assessment. Its already part of our lives.
I have been Crook County free for 10 years.
Stories like this always pleasantly remind me why my family and I left and never looked back.
Another top notch financial plan, carry on Toniwinkle!
" The aim of the proposal is to curb the number of guns in circulation, Preckwinkle's chief of staff, Kurt Summers, told the newspaper.".........what a crock of sh!t, its just another tax thats all. it will curb nothing.
". . .nearly one-third of the guns recovered on the Chicago's streets were purchased in suburban gun shops."
This statistic would like you to believe that the guns were used in crimes by their rightful owners. But I wonder how many of them were "purchased in suburban gun shops" and then stolen from their owners? And of those that were, how many were purchased by people disbarred from the possession of firearms who made purchases using false identities or with "straw men"?
Most felons obtain an illegal (for them) gun from friends and family. Something like 40%, but I don't have the exact statistic handy.
Only about 4% manage to obtain them from a gun shop directly.
_
_bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/content/pub/pdf/fuo.pdf
FYI - the Federal Law that bars felons from possessing a firearm is unconstitutional.
Read the Constitution...find the passage in it that states that Congress's power to define the punishment for
"...piracies and FELONIES committed on the HIGH SEAS."
Congress (federal) has no other authority to bar felons from anything. It is the Supreme Court in illegally ruling from the bench that upholds this ban. They even stated as such in the Heller decision.
Many states allow felons to regain their rights after they have served their time, and/or petitioned their District Court to have their rights reinstated.
My...for a country that is all about forgiveness and reformation...we certainly have narrow minds in tidy little areas...don't we...
Considering the percentage of gun violence in Chicago is committed by people who have no legal right to have firearms in the possesion. Allowing this tax just to fill a budget gap makes me wonder what the powers that be in Illinois will want to tax next year. This is just another way of wringing more money out of honest taxpayers while the criminal element gets off scott free. They said in the arcticle 35 percent of the guns seized in crimes were from suburban gun shops. Where did the other 65 percent come from? If they are calling it a violence tax they are taxing the wrong people.
All guns recovered in Chicago would have to have come from suburban gun shops,or elsewhere-there are no gun shops in Chicago.
Not necessarily. A lot of them could have come from neighboring states or other places. Where they were either stolen, bought through straw purchases or some other illegal means.
Maybe some of the guns recovered in Chicago come from the Fast and Furious straw purchases? After all, there was no control as to where the guns went once purchased, and if guns bring a high price in Chicago, is it not reasonable to assume some went there too? Oh, wait a minute. We control our borders so that is not possible, right?
I think they should charge a tax like they do on Cigs. If you want them pay for them......
Ah! Obamaland!
Good luck with that.
Here's an idea. Instead of finding bizarre new ways to tax people who are already struggling to make ends meet, STOP SPENDING MONEY! Focus on budget cuts and eliminating waste and fraud and you won't have to keep getting into the pockets of the public.
Are you referring to this situation in Chicago or to the Fed. because it could go either way and we should all know by now that if you apply that simple logic to the Fed. then a bunch of pissed-off progressives will show up to over-complicate the issue and explain how you feeling that way is a result of your being an angry, hate-filled racist... Just saying.
It's a simple approach that should apply to local, state and federal. I am angry, not hate filled or a racist. So sad that your observation is accurate though. So many politicians are afraid to address the issues of fraud and waste because it will expose the skeletons in their own closets and end the gravy train they have been riding. It's the old "don't rock the boat" approach and we, the taxpayers, are getting royally screwed as a result of it.
where are the libs on this vine?? Come on, defend this tax. Put your tin foil hats on and start thinking of a way.
It isn't difficult. Why should cigarettes be taxed at over $5 a pack in many places to pay the cost of the harm they do but not guns in one of the cities with the highest gun violence rates in the country? The first amendment does not exclude taxes as sales taxes apply. Most liberals don't bother responding because we no more care if guns are taxed than a non smoker/drinker cares how much cigarettes and liquor are taxed. If you think the majority of posts here being gun nuts proves this tax is undependable it just shows how delusional you all are. The rest of us could care less.
The Second Amendment has to do with owning guns. The First Amendment has to do with Free Speech and the like. Both of these are in the Bill of rights.
Article 1 Sections 7 and 8 deal with taxes and such. Article 10 is how states have the right to charge a sales tax.
The rest of us care - a lot. this is why it is important to educate our youth and why it is such a shame that Chicago is failing to do so. Maybe that is why so many really bad politicians seem to thrive in Chicago. It must be like cock roaches thriving in filth. Education would keep a lot of bad politicians out of office, I think.
wow really, you guys would justify a tax on flushing the toilet. What a joke. Maybe we could all hand our paychecks over to the Government so they could piss it away for us, that is how stupid you libs sound.
Larry-367607
This tax is not going to curb violence as one of its primary principles, to believe so, now that's delusional. But I get the don't care attitude, of course not, why would you.
Hey Larry. Don't you feel stupid being the only one voteing for your comment?
On an article about taxing guns? Why would anyone who agreed with me even bother reading such an article? Only the gun nuts flock to spout their outrage. Agreeing with taxing guns on a post like this is like a black man showing up at a kkk meeting. You don't expect an agreeable audience.
FYI @ Larry...you only show your ignorance every time you try to associate taxes with the 1st Amendment.
Now...given that taxation is a "infringement"
What don't you understand about ..."shall not be infringed"?
A normal tax, such as those applied in sales taxes...across the board for any item purchased is not an infringement since it applies to every item sold.
A special tax...as this would be...which applies to only a specific item...is an infringement.
The power to tax is the power to destroy.
Marijuana prohibition...started as a TAX.
When do we get to start taxing stupid politicians?
Why not raise taxes on the teachers that got raises instead of responsible citizens. Or hold them accountable for there performance.
Dennis: I agree with you Chicago has a 42% drop out rate. So what are Chicago's teacher doing when they are on the job?
Welcome to Obama's America from his city! What a bunch of liberal losers.
"The aim of the proposal is to curb the number of guns in circulation, Preckwinkle's chief of staff, Kurt Summers, told the newspaper"....Just another form of our government trying to disarm the citizens. Wake up people! This bill will do nothing but make it more expensive for the lawful citizens to protect themselves. It will do nothing to lower the crime rate. If anything, every law abiding citizen should own a weapon. The criminals and thugs will think twice before acting if they think everyone else is armed. Again, WAKE THE F@#* UP AMERICA!
We as a people are running out of disposable income, tax us more, and when the economy completely collapses, which it will, we can become the third world country that ALL politicians are driving us too.
Our country has gone from great to gimme!!!!!
Thank you Mr. Obama!
seems to me one way to curb gun violence is to shake down known felons on a monthly basis, should illegal firearms be found then both hands of the felons should be removed, due to prison over crowding, this is the only logical solution.
Nice compassionate Islamic solution.
All this tax does is fuel a black market for the stuff.
Exactly, just like alcohol before and drugs now. Well said.
...What else could we expect from Obama City? They model their city and county government after their King Obama. ...Of course their main solution always has something to do with bleeding more money from honest, hardworking citizens while taking away more of their rights.
Love the name on this tax. After this tax they need a Dumb county president tax.
Hey Lets make Ammo cost $500 a bullet , I figure you will think twice before firing!
@Johnny: ...Please move to Mexico and take King Obama with you!
The only problem with that is it would stop most people from target shooting and training with their firearm. I prefer gun owners who know how to use guns safely and effectively. That only comes with practice, practice, and more practice.
I used to make my own ammo when I shot a lot. It is called reloading ammo! I used to melt old lead weights from car tires, cast new bullets, and reload them on a reloading press. It would start another home industry if ammo were priced at $500 a shot.
Sure Johnnylaw1984, let's all follow your brilliant idea, so, when when the crap hits the fan and I need to quickly decide between saving your butt with my really valuable bullet, or paying my light bill, it'll be an easy decision for me...yes sir, my light will stay on for another month.
There is one good thing about your plan though, that I cannot ignore...less liberals will be around making stupid laws.
Save a Bullet, Let a Liberal Fend for Himself!
I can hear it now: "I'm'a pop a cap in yo ass!!....if I could afford it."
Hey johnny...
I'll just use my crossbow, and then retrieve my arrow.
Let's tax you $500 per breath.
I have a GREAT idea --- they should charge a sex tax. $100 for every time that spouses engage in an act of sex. they could even go so far as to charge different amounts for different positions.
.
Since these jerks are the ones that put government into the RED, they should be the ones that balance the books !!
Wonderful idea. A lot of new government workers would be needed just to watch.
can i be the new sex czar?
JonH: Obviously you wouldn't support such a tax if you were getting any. I feel sorry for you. What if they charged $20 every time you masturbated?
LARRY--you would be broke!
Typical politician solution, raise taxes and/or fees, instead of getting to the root of the problem, government spending.
Bill...how much do you think it is costing YOU every day for the Obama campaign trips?
My point exactly.
...Sounds like the "Cook County President" is a likely Democrat candidate for President of the United States in 2016. ...He thinks the same way as our current Doofus in Chief!
Anther social liberalism movement to socialize our people and convince them to give up their rights for their own social good.
Next step is to outlaw all guns and then only the criminality will have them. They will have them, make no mistake and the drive by shooting or other killings will NOT get better. Who has them now and kills?
NOT the average citizen of Chicago that's for sure. So passing this is like pouring water through a bucket riddled with bullet holes. The one that gangs shot up.
I'm sure there are gun shops in Cook Co but I personally know of none. How can Cook Co tax have a significant financial impact if points of collection are so few? Revenue not the object, gun control is. If 33.3% purchased in burbs most of the rest are from outside the Chicago and Collar Co area. Tax would have to be state-wise to raise significant revenue. Good luck getting that past Down-state.
I wonder if the residents of down- state Illinois think Chicago sucks as bad as Pennsylvanians think Philadelphia does ?