And we get punished for giving spankings? This world is BROKEN!

The article doesn't indicate any response from the mother or father for that matter, hmmm.

Mbin,

Not necessarily. The old question---nurture or nature? I firmly believe some folks are born bad.

Well, I'm thinking the apple didn't fall too far from the tree here.

At least we know this whore seedling will not end up like a Ted Bundy or Jeffery Dahmer killing 40+ before 25 years old.............

It's hard to judge a book by it's cover - but based on the photo's of Mr. Zachary James Proper, i'd guess he was just trying to keep it real and represent...no one calls Zach's mom a whore but Zach, got it?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2215149/Thirteen-year-old-shot-killed-grandparents-charged-adult.html

He should be shot while resisting arrest. Save a lot of tax payer dollars that way.

13 and driving....and partying..this kid is a devil child.

Great now his mom can be called "Mother of a psychopath". Way to defend your mom kid.

Uhm, Waldo? The grandparents raised the boy's father. Article references the boy's father as the Fross's son, but doesn't name him. Possible the parents never married and the kid got his mother's last name.

He IS a well rounded kid. At the age of 13 he drinks, drives, and shoots.

Pennsylvania: what a state? They give us this, and Sandusky.

Hey!!! A Psychotic, violent and dangerous Society, Which America has become for awhile, is NO excuse for Acting Out a violent Video Game on someone else. If the victims are The GrandParents From Hell, Then Walk Kid! No excuse for Whacking them; You're gonna' do Heavy time.

Well his mommy prolly was a whore. And what this little bastard did was premeditated.

Let's hope he gets to be his grandparents age before he ever gets out.

This is a sad story, about a tragic and senseless crime.

What it is not, is an indictment of all of modern society, prohibitions against corporal punishment, or even gun laws.

Did not Cain kill Able in the Bible?

Why was that? Did Adam & Eve allow their kids to hang out too much at the mall?

Mark,
We put them in prison, but other countries are run by psychotics. Nuts running the nuthouse, so how would they consider placing others like themselves in prison, when they could employ them to keep others in line?

Oh, wait, WE have a bunch of psychotics in our government too. I won't go into parties, since both are just about as guilty in regard to looking out for the people who elected them...only they don't use guns.

Pennsylvania: what a state? They give us this, and Sandusky

Speak for yourself. An hour or so outside of the Philadelphia area its a bunch of gun toting GOPers.

I know what would have solved this more guns, if only the grandparents had owned guns, er,....wait, nevermind. If only they had been packing when carrying groceries, this could have been avoided!

lame comment wtf does politics have to do with this story... This kid is @!$%#ed in the head & the only thing that can heal him is a bullet to the brain.

He obviously has no morals and is a psychopath.

The tragedy is that the good folks of Pennsylvania have to foot this bill for this pos to live out his life in Prison.

Someone forgot the rule here:

Call a spade a spade, call a club a club, but always call a whore a lady.....

@Blake: And we get punished for giving spankings? This world is BROKEN!

Yes, Blake... A good spanking would have whipped the murder right out of him. He would have learned that violence is wrong if he were bent over and paddled... But a good time out or talking to brings murder and makes heads roll every time. Hell-fire red eyes -- a sure sign of a child whose ass wasn't properly beaten.

Another young person who has not been taught to control his anger.And worse yet are the adults who talk smack about the kids Mom.If the paternal grandparents don't know any better than rest assured this kids Dad doesn't either.All around it is a shame and a tragedy that could have been prevented with better parenting skills.

Ya know when you shoot those people on computer games they fall down and then jump up again when you reset the game! Life's expectations are sometime a bit skewed for kids these days.

Strawman,

Some people are just broken, otherwise with the popularity of video games ($25 billion in video game entertainment sold in 2011), this story would play out millions of times a year. Let's stop looking for scapegoats and start looking and fixing or removing the broken people.

I hate to do it but I have to actually say a word in defense of the boy. If I am reading the article correctly the boy's father's parents were calling the kid's mother a whore. Odds are that he put up with that sort of thing his entire childhood and it probably contributed to his issues. I can't help but feel some empathy for the child he was and some contempt for the grandparents who took their anger at his mother out on the child by telling a 13 year old kid his mother was a whore. What did they think it was going to help to say bad things about a mother to her child? Idiots. I can't say they deserved what they got but I do feel that they played a part in the issues that caused their deaths.

(And for the record I am one of the ones who usually wants the perp strung up to twist in the wind.)

That poor family. All those lives destroyed. There are many victims here. 2 Elders gone for ever and a young man that will pay a price here on earth and ever after, and of course his parents. Many many victims. I will say a prayer for them.

Mark B-2446613

This is what materialistic, self-centered, ego driven societies produce. Everybody is on his own. I've got mine, now screw you! No sense of caring or kindness. Prisons filled to capacity. Worst in the world. Ayn Rand is running for Vice President.

Welcome to Capitalist America.

Wrong.

Welcome to Democratic-Socialist America. Capitalist America was a 100 years ago, and I believe that's what we should return to.

And the Darwin Award goes to........................

what a fine young fellow...only a true lady could raise such... a fine outstanding kid...how's that whore thing work'n out for ya grand parents...

Sad to say but at least he won't grow up to go and shoot up a theater or mall or church.

Toby-calmly walk outside and bring the mail in, I'm sure your welfare check is just running late due to the recent holiday. Note to one-self. Pick up refills at CVS

Another one of Sandusky's victims, screaming out for help? Didn't the boy attend one of his "Daycamps" for underpriviledged kids? ODB

Jessica-1170252

It's hard to judge a book by it's cover - but based on the photo's of Mr. Zachary James Proper, i'd guess he was just trying to keep it real and represent...no one calls Zach's mom a whore but Zach, got it?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2215149/Thirteen-year-old-shot-killed-grandparents-charged-adult.html

What the hell? For a 13 year old, that's some awesome muscle definition.. o.O

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2215149/Thirteen-year-old-shot-killed-grandparents-charged-adult.html

I believe they call those wife beater t-shirts don't they?

And another thing? Why do they mention he put on "headphones" before he shot his grandmother? Did he think he was playing a video game? Odd.

Darling boy, too bad.

Kids just don't invent whacky behaviors - they imitate their role models.

It's pure ignorance to say anything ill about anybody else's relatives - and 'parent' would be the nuclear launch button.

im 19 years old and know how to kick some ass ,,but i wouldn't try to piss this kid off

Shark-

What's your point? That this sleeveless undershirt (which you reference as a 'wife beater') is indicative of someone who would murder someone else? So basically, we should go around and round up all those boys and men who wear 'wife beaters' and arrest them because they are surely violent murderers?

I have to echo what others have said. While I do not condone what the boy did, the parents of his father were speaking ill about his mother. To not expect some sort of reaction would be rather silly. I mean, he is at an impressionable age. He probably heard such things all his life, etc. My parents divorced when I was 9/10 and I never heard remarks about one from the other, partly because if any conversation went that direction, I would leave. It is the reason I am unsure about bringing children into this world. On the small chance my future wife and I do divorce, the way people use their kids against each other is unbelievable. And then the kids lose it and we blame them? I am sure these grandparents were relatively good people...they obviously never divorced and allowed their grandson to visit, but they ultimately caused their own demise. And the bad remarks about PA are a joke. If you know anything about the Sandusky case, even his wife was unaware of his actions. That would mean it was hidden from everyone else. Everyone wants to blame Paterno as if he somehow protected Sandusky but you are forgetting he did not like Sandusky. The two barely spoke when they worked together, let alone after Sandusky retired when the majority of what he did happened. People say, "But Joe still knew about it." He was old-school. When he was told about it, he didn't understand the severity or even what was happening. I know that sounds a bit silly but it is the truth. He didn't fully grasp what was happening to the kids. The others at the school---certainly they did wrong and them being charged proves it. However, that report issued by someone Penn State hired? The man who was responsible for that had an agenda...to clear Penn State. In the process, there was a fall guy. Joe Paterno. And again, he did not have anything to do with Sandusky. They were not pals, they did not talk, nothing. So to blame Joe seems rather odd.

Comparably, PA is a great place. I live in an area where hundreds of thousands of people visit over the summer...a small town where maybe only twenty thousand live in the surrounding county. Given that many people, you think violent crime would happen here more often and it simply does not happen.

I think the "kindly grandparents" were just simply pointing the "mothers" sexual preference.

He more than likely he heard the same thing from his father which is why he divorced the whore in the first place. He did not shoot him.

This is to ApacheRosePeaoo - You wrote above:

And then the kids lose it and we blame them? I am sure these grandparents were relatively good people...they obviously never divorced and allowed their grandson to visit, but they ultimately caused their own demise.

Are you serious? You really think the grandparents caused their own demise because they called the kid's mother a whore? So, its ok to commit murder, to shoot your grandparents in cold blood just because they made negative comments about his mother? I mean, com'on, that is the craziest thing I ever heard. I'm sure this kid had major issues, as he was drinking and getting high on drugs and driving at 13 already, and then went to party at a cousin's house after the murders as well. We don't know the whole story, and who knows what kind of abuse and most likely major neglect he may have suffered at his parent's hands, but what he did was a henious, cold blooded, very violent crime and when people make excuses for these killers and blame the victims is part of why monsters like this kid are created in the first place!!!! What ever happened to developing a "thick skin"? Boo, hoo poor little Zachary killed his grandparents because they talked crap about his mom!!! So what? He could have ignored it, or better yet, told his grandparents he didnt like it when they spoke that way about her. If anything the grandparents should have known better as well, but sound dysfunctional too, but that doesn't mean they deserved to die in such a horrible way.

This is a shocking case. I don't care if the grand parents called his mom a whore, sticks and stones. He should of, just not went over there anymore. The grandfather was going out of the way for this creep, buying him pizza and his grandmother was cooking him food. He is a bad seed. Just a horrible person for what he did. I really hope they lock him up forever, throw away the key. We don't need people like him in are society. I have no mercy for people like him. I can't believe anyone could actually stand up for him. You don't kill someone because they say something bad. Such crazy people in the world these days.

@Sharktopussie

Maybe because guns are loud and he didn't wanna be deaf and on the run.

I fired a 357 magnum pistol without ear protection once and couldn't hear talking for 2 days and heard ringing for over a week.

@ everyone who thinks the grandparents are major victims

These idiots bullied a 13 year old white male in America.
Don't you know American's are trained to be soldiers.

Don't you watch the news? You bully a 13 year old and they will shoot you.

What this boy did is the new America.

I hope this douchebag gets the death penalty.

Planned ahead, and made an effort to conceal evidence; so no incapacity defense.

Double homicide (plus theft of the gun) would mean death penalty eligable.

So without evidence of severe abuse by the grandparents, he'll probably get life with parole eligability after 20 years.

I was also taken aback that he would kill over words, two people who took him in and cared for him and made his life better.

That he put on headphones tells me he might be insane and blocking out voices.

where would that idiot have been without those grand parents, your right they must have loved him, look what that those poor people . sad sad.

We only have his word for it that there was any name-calling.

That he put on headphones tells me he might be insane and blocking out voices.

my first thought regarding the headphones was so he didn't have to hear the screaming of his grandparents as they realized he was going to murder them...his callousness in partying afterwards shows not remorseful. Not everything has to do with mental illness and today's kids play games that glorify murder and violence and makes them immune to what it is like in real life.

He may have put on headphones to protect his ears from the gunshots he knew were going to happen. He was thinking ahead, as he was obviously proceding with a plan.

Something tells me that there is a lot more to this story.

Things don't add up yet. Where were mom and dad ?? What were they doing ??? Didn't they worry or were at least concerned when little boy stayed out all night ??? Sounds like the kid grew up in a crack house.

Bob1/28 -

His father and his paternal grandparents have a different last name yet they it seems the boys father and mother live together. After killing his grand parents he stole their car and drove to his cousins house where he partied all night drinking and getting high.

To say that this kid lived in sort of a messed up family dynamic is not irrational. From the article it sounds like the grandparents were the only semi-sane ones and may have taken him in as much as they did hoping to get him out of that cycle. Very sad.

I agree with Dave. Firing a gun indoors is deafeningly loud. This kid knew exactly what he was doing and planned appropriately by attempting to protect his ears from the sound

So the parents of this little monster knew he was drinking and getting high and STILL left the car keys out where he could get to them? I don't know what circumstances led to the grandparent's words about the mother of this boy, but I have a word about her parenting skills...nonexistant.

Marty, it states that the 13 year old stole the car! Read the article in full before commenting.

I'll assume "headphones" is rookie talk for shooting muffs. If they owned a gun safe, they owned muffs.

The "headphones" were to make the gunshots quieter. If you have ever fired a gun in an enclosed space, you know that it can be very, very loud.

Why should we believe the alibi this psychopath gave to justify his action? Probably believes that by saying something like that he will get away with his act. Unfortunately he probably will.

@KristiJohnson

You really think the kid had the mechanical knowledge to hotwire the car? Or does it make more sense that he picked up the keys, snuck out of the house and just drove the car away? This kid is not the brightest crayon in the box so I doubt he took the time or knew how to start the car without the keys.

Have you worked in a psych ward? If you haven't, you opinion is uneducated concerning the headphones.

#2.5 I read your post and your thoughts mimic my own. Mob justice which is reactionary is just as wrong as what the mother did. It is just hiding behind a group of people who are as angry and reactive as the mother was. Two wrongs... and all that.

@ marty, he stole his grandparents car not his parents car, so what probably transpired was that after he killed his grandparents, since when he killed his grandpa after he returned from the store, he more than likely stole his grandpas keys that were probably on his person.

That he put on headphones tells me he might be insane and blocking out voices.

my first thought regarding the headphones was so he didn't have to hear the screaming of his grandparents as they realized he was going to murder them..

And my first thought was that he did it to protect his ears from the sound of the gun going off...

One thing is for certain...this was not a crime of passion, this was premeditated-coldblooded-murder. Glad to hear they are trying him as an adult.

Jeklo, you have got that right. It was premeditated...

i wonder if solitary confinment will make this messed up youth think about what he did.

@ People thinking he should be tried as an adult.

Odds are he will be getting out again. And if you think he is messed up now, wait till he has grown up in a prison system. And why would you try a 13 year old as an adult? The whole reason we make that jurisdiction is because we acknowledge that people under the age of 18 haven't been fully trained by the govt. school system to assimilate to society where they regurgitate totalitarian ideas such as yours. When you are brain washing 400+ million people sure some are gonna snap and shoot someone the govt. didn't sanction.

And why are we defending the grandparents so much here people? You don't know them.

He could have went and shot anyone. He chose them. Not his parents that y'all think are so bad. Of whom at least one of was supposedly raised by the people who were shot!

Makes Sense

I guess lil Proper never heard of the "dozens"?

That was his story. How honest do you think he is?

Jo mama so phat...

If he told the police everything that happened and what he did, there is a good chance he's also telling the truth about his motives.

Precisely, mb...he told the police everything that happened and the evidence matches it. Why would he give them a different reason for motive other than the truth? I think he was troubled clearly and who knows exactly what the family dynamic was...but most people I know would react if their mom was paired with words like "whore". Especially by relatives that they think care about them. I am not excusing his actions. There is no question he should be tried as an adult and suffer the consequences. He clearly planned this out. However, he was at an age where such words would really sting and if he spent a lot of time around his grandparents, hearing them say such a thing would be like stabbing him in the back. No matter what issues his mother has/had, anyone mentioning it would touch off nerves. Sad situation nonetheless but to question the kid's motive? I am not seeing it. I don't have the best family dynamic---I was called a child molester because I was looking out for the best care of my nieces from their negligent parents so I fully understand how words can be said and totally screw up everything---sadly, this kid was too young to realize that words are just that and that he could have handled it differently.

I guess 'time outs' don't seem to work.

The only thing "time outs" do is make the brats more angry. Whoever came up with that notion is an idiot.

he was probably getting high and drunk with his parents.

It totally sounds like there was a history and it seems the family thought they were handling the issues. Personally, the getting high and drunk are things some teens do even at 13...but coupled with problems where relatives are calling your other family names without even realizing the ramifications? I am not condoning what the teen did. He should serve serious time and be charged as an adult. However, it is just like keyboard warriors on sites like this. If the things that are said here were said in person, you would see a portion of said people getting hurt so many people would not be so brave/stupid. Maybe the grandparents never intended for their words to be heard but I have seen families torn apart because of similar hatred that was completely unfounded. When you are in the middle of a family like that but an outsider, it is easy to see the misplaced feelings. When you are the divorced mother raising two kids who says things about dad, some parents are oblivious to how their words/actions are perceived by their kids. Sad but true.

A shame, really. This young man lacks self-esteem, which is why he resorted to do what he did.

Terrible, really.

Of course! Because since abortion has been legal, life has gotten better! There are less crimes being committed. There are less children being abused. There are less children being abandoned. Wait... *eyeroll*

yeah because you can tell when you're pregnant with someone that they are gonna grow up to become a murderer!!!

yeah because you can tell when you're pregnant with someone that they are gonna grow up to become a murderer!!!

For the most part, you actually can. Take a look at history and the way crime rates dropped when the first aborted babies would have been at a "criminal" age. This happened when every expert around expected crime to reach record levels. While not every single bad person can be predicted, bad people mostly come from bad homes where they are not raised in a balanced home with loving parents. Broken homes like this one, bad family dynamics where family members say things about others---true or not, drugs, alcohol, emotional abuse, physical abuse, emotional detachment, etc. All of it plays a factor and in good homes you rarely see any of it. Sure, dad might have a beer with dinner but he is not beating his wife or kids in a drunken rage. He is simply enjoying a drink and often, his kids will learn to respect alcohol because he does leading to less teen drinking or even if they do drink underage, they are more aware of what not to do than their peers---binge drinking for example. Monkey see, monkey do. Dogs are no different. When one attacks, it is not because they snap for no reason. Their owners may have had the best intentions but somewhere, their interactions made the dog react the way it did. There are rare exceptions but they are way more rare than you think and often still only happen because the owners choose to be ignorant of obvious signs....kids, dogs alike. Take this story. You think the drinking and getting high was an everyday event? Even if it was, does that not signal a huge issue? The father wanted police to check on his parents. In what kind of family does that happen? There was a clear indication of trouble here...one that could have been prevented if those around the situation did what they should have been doing. I didn't come from the best family background for example but my dad never called the police to check on me. My relatives never said bad things about one another. That alone is an indication of trouble...and for it, the grandparents paid dearly. If they really said that, shame on them no matter how great they were to the kid.

Something caused the rage then to explode with the grandparents...but all he did afterwards says a lot about him at that age.
Drugs taken by the female or male can cause at conception the part of the brain to not have feelings and lack common sense: that is illustrated daily on our streets everywhere.

sad thing is some do good organization will say that is to harsh for that little oxygen theif.

Mother-in-laws and father-in-laws shouldn't piss off whores with bad little boys with bad attitudes. People feel sorry for 13 year olds with an excuse!

how do you know what the grandparents said. were you there, did you hear them say it.

maybe , just maybe the kid made it all up. just like must children do when things are not going their way.

maybe mom brought home a couple of her boy friends and he retaliated.

An example of how words can hurt. I visualized my FIL while reading this sad story.

Whether the grandparents referred to the mother that way to the boy's face or if he overheard them say it, they certainly pushed the wrong button on a troubled boy.

"My MIL and I don't get along but I can't imagine her doing something so cruel as pitting herself against me with my children"

Your not imagining enough.

@Jenn S - I have to disagree with you regarding your question of it being appropriate to charge him as an adult. This is one very cold and calculating young man. Other news sources report that his grandfather had gotten an ATV out of the barn for this teen to ride while the grandfather went to the store to get pizza.

The teen takes bolt cutters, breaks into to a secured gun container and puts ear buds in before he shoots his grandmother. Then he called granddad to find out when he'd be back, saying he'll help granddad carry in groceries and then shoots him til gun jams. Steals their car, drives 10 miles, ditches the gun, and parties all night with his cousin.

That's about as cold and calculating as it gets.

This seems like exactly the kind of case trying kids as adults was intended for. It's very early in the investigation, but preliminary information certainly sounds as though this teen is very calloused and ruthless.

FINALY! Kudos Jenn. Making disparaging coments about a child's parents is the most damaging thing you can do to a chlld.

Pawning your PSYCHO issue off on his elderly grandparents is pretty damaging too--to them! And make no mistake-EVERYBODY KNEW HE WAS A PSYCHO!!

So Sharion, you know this boy personally?

Sharion, the article stated that he lived in Oil City and spent some time with his grandparents. He wasn't "Pawned OFF" on them. Geez. Reading comprehension, you should try it.

'Republic', you have GOT to be kidding me!? You are such a RACIST! Obama has two wonderful, high-achieving daughters, and a strong family unit with high moral and ethical standards. How do you even know that the boy in this story is African American???!! You are the definition of 'RACIST'!!!

lingseed

Race? I never said anything about race. You brought up race. It did not matter and I did not know and did not care but because YOU brought it up I checked....the young man in this article is Caucasian, so what. So why does that have anything to do with it? It doesn't for me but YOU are obviously hung up on the race thing. YOU are the bigot. How do you know I am not black? You don't, and I don't KNOW either but I am going to go out on a limb here and say you are...you pulled the card not me. Typical. I was talking about role models and attitudes. Trayvon was a lot like this kid...one white, one black. TRUTH!

totherepublic

So you're ignorant and a bigot to boot, nuff said.

Travon - you mean the innocent kid who was walking home with some tea and skittles before being harassed by a racist who didn't think a black kid should be in his neighborhood?

They waiting for a really large and significant sign.

LOL, usedupbrain

coward (and I don't have to shout to make my point). Don't be afraid. Real men like me will protect you from yourself

GoSteelers-1249883

Ok, I would love to see you take a bullet for whocares5. Whats that? No.........Yeah talk is cheap, just like your mamma.....oh oops, are you going to shoot me too?

I never said I'd take a bullet for that coward, coward. Having a gun makes one imagine they are "The Punisher". Can I peruse your comic book collection?

Sorry, I don't collect hentai comics.

GoSteelers - I could just as easily say that you are a coward for not having the guts to keep a firearm to defend your family. You said you are a "real man", so you don't need guns. What is going to happen if an armed intruder breaks into your house and threatens your family? Scare him away with your manliness?

Yes, yes it does.....

That's funny.

we are raising a nation of sociopaths.

we are living in the days of Noah, Christ said would be ...right before He returns, hell on earth...take the child to a safe place, place him under hypnosis by a licensed person and get at the truth, what is going on here? what is THE CHILD covering up? Story does not make sense...shooting grandparents over verbal stuff? Grandparents????Was there incest going on or what?

If you are going to call someone stupid, you should learn to spell and use proper grammar. The fact you are a coward does not excuse these other personal flaws of yours.

GoSteelers-1249883

I know Coward was your head coach, but dude you got to let that man crush go..........

I'll give you half a point for that one. Not too bad. Could have been better

Dustin 79 I agree with you , I was thinking the same thing. We are starting to see similar incidents occuring with some of these young kids

The kid told the truth about everything else, why lie about the motive. Unless he was sexually/physically abused, there is no motive that would negate the cold blooded ruthlessness of what he did.

If the kid was trying to gain sympathy and make it seem like what he did was justified, he could have lied and said he was abused. I'm thinking he told the truth.

How do you know he told the truth??

Why would you think she actually was a prostitute? Thats a mighty big leap.