These dogs are iconic so anal people that live in a Norman Rockwell world keep them as an accessory.

when will the owners be blamed and not the Breed !!

Sorry, but hear it again..It is the owners fault. None of us know the exact details of this situation and what transpired, nor the history of these dogs. The real fact is ANY breed can be dangerous, it not specific to certain breeds. I have owned 4 Rotties and still have one, all are absolutely lovely family dogs and I never had one single situation where I couldn't control my dogs. Pitbulls and Rotties have fallen prey to their popularity. Back in the 70s it was German Shepards creating all the ruckus. Now, it's mostly Pittbulls and because their owners are incompetent owners or criminals. You never hear about all the good owners of Pittbulls and Rotties, the ones that win competitions or serve as therapy dogs.

American Pit Bull Terriers may only make up a small percentage of the total dog population...but you are forgetting two important factors. Of the majority who own pit bull type dogs, many are people who use them to fight and beat them so they are protection dogs...aka the scum of the earth. What that creates are dogs that attack unprovoked and the responsibility is solely on the owner, never the dog because there are many pit owners, some professional dog trainers on television, who all stand behind the breed. I am one of those people and my dog has never done anything remotely close to this. He hides from kittens but to you, he is a ticking time bomb for no apparent reason. The second thing you are forgetting is that dogs are pack animals. Clearly, this aunt did not have her dogs around children very often or she never discouraged them from chasing things. She definitely was not the pack leader. The male was...and the females followed. If the human was the pack leader, nothing like this would have ever happened because within the pack dynamic, the kids would have been above the dogs and thus protected by them. That is how it is with my dog and it will always remain that way. My four year old niece can even walk my dog unassisted...he's sixty pounds of muscle...with a proper leash. If that makes me a moron, you and the rest of the breed haters all need to educate yourselves on the ways dogs work. If all dog owners did that, especially small dog owners, dog bites would drastically go down. But that has to do with being a responsible pet owner...just as people should be responsible parents or not have kids...it works the same way. Sadly, so many dog owners are not responsible. But rather than hold them accountable, we blame the dogs who depend on humans for shelter, food, water, and even need to be told when to potty.

It *is* the humans who are at fault most of the time. While it is possible for a dog to develop schizophrienia, Post-traumatic stress disorder or other mental illnesses, it is rare. I have been working with rescued Rottweilers for 40 years. I have adopted seven over that period of time. Only one continued to have aggression issues after being with me for more than six months. The other six gave up their aggression before six months had passed. I've taken dogs who were shot, stabbed, burned, starved and deliberately blinded in one eye--all were abused by their previous owners. If any dogs had reason to be fearful and aggressive, these did. After rehabilitation, they each became a great dog! One was a therapy dog at the VA hospital where I worked. He wore a special harness and pulled vets around in their wheel chairs. My most recent rottie, Willow, was thrown out of a car on an Indiana highway. She had a fractured skull and was left with a seizure disorder. I had her for nearly two years until she died in her sleep last April. She and my cat slept together every night. Tessa, my cat, came and woke me when Willow died.

Please, everyone and anyone, please don't blame the dogs right away. So much depends on their training and the encouragement of guard dog aggressiveness by owners who want it but can't handle it.

Amen, Rubberducky! I worked at a vet hospital for years and yes, little wannabe dogs are the worse for fear biting, etc... The only time I was bitten was by a German Shepherd. BUT the statistics are overwhelming. There are 2 breeds of dogs who do FAR more than their share of DEATHS and critical attacks. Far more. Stop saying it's not the breed, it's the owner. It only shows your ignorance. They have builds and instincts that are responsible for those statistics. I had a veterinarian I work for show me how my favorite Rottie we boarded could change in seconds with an eyelock. It was scary.

Yeah. You looked a dog in the eye. In the dog world, regardless of breed, you are challenging the dog when you do that. But far be it from me to call you ignorant. Most people who are responsible would know better and never do such a thing because it will get you hurt.

Rottweilers can be wonderful pets but they were orginally bred to guard. Many dogs have high prey drives and a small child running can arouse this. I love dogs and many things are the owners problem but they are animals and we need to realize even thought they are domesticated they can have unpredicatble behavior.

Its more than "leader of the pack". Its training YOU and your dog. It is recognising there are some dogs which are Alpha by nature and because of this, they cannot be expected to react the same way a submissive pack member would. The article states the woman had to put herself between the dogs and the kids to get them to stop; the owner was injured in this process. That is not training, that is not pack, that is Alpha behavior.

Dogs must be trained to listen to childrens commands. Every day, every time they are around children. I had a training session with every kid that came into this house when the dogs were going to be in the house with them. The dog was to follow instructions from the kid and I enforced the behavior. It gave me time to train the kid on what was expected and to monitor the dogs mood. If the dog wasnt in the mood, the dog wasnt allowed around the kids and the kids were not allowed around the dog. I had to send one kid home one time for not following a No Dog day. Once. The kid learned.

I am so grateful to have grown up in a household that took obedience training seriously (growing up with a UDX dog).

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obedience_trial

I strongly encourage everyone to take at least one dog through basic (companion dog) obedience training classes. Better yet if you have your kids do it.

rubberducky said:

I am sick of hearing statements like "it's the owners fault",

I am a longtime volunteer at an inner-city animal shelter that is about 60-80% pits at any one given time and also worked dispatch for my municipality's animal control and a court recorder for VDHB cases (Vicious Dog Hearing Board). I've seen good and bad in every breed of dog. I've seen good and bad in every owner. When bad dog meets bad owner that's where problems happen.

Poor genetics and poor ownership are the leading causes of human/animal bite fatalities. I'm not going to lie and say I haven't seen some aggressive pits, but neither will I say that I haven't seen some of the nicest, quietest, most loving dogs also be pits.

I have only had two dogs come in on a bite case that were licensed, registered, purebred , pedigreed dogs whose parents were carefully selected for intelligence, even temperament and affectionate and loving natures. The two pedigreed dogs who came in on a bite case were Cocker Spaniels. (they even have a special name for it: Cocker rage.)

EVERY pit type that we have ever gotten in front of the VDHB on a bite case (haven't yet had a human fatality in my five years of volunteering at the shelter) has been a backyard-bred dog whose parents were selected for the enlarged adrenal gland, then supplemented by leaving the male intact and assisted by massive doses of steroids.

These ghetto breeders temperament test each puppy, pick out the most aggressive, then sell the other puppies to a family as a family pet without warning them that the puppy's parents had a higher aggression index than normal. It is these puppies who while they may have grown up in a loving, caring, nurturing home with plenty of exercise, can have mental instabilities. And it's not the dog's fault, it's the dog's genetics; it is what its parents' owner bred it to be. If we humans don't like the traits h dog exhibits we ca have the dog euthanized or sterilized to keep it from passing on bad genetics, thereby removing the behavior from the genetic pool.

Instead of going after the dog for becoming what we humans made it to be, let's go after the humans who made it what it is.

RainDaze...she was injured in the process because she was not the pack leader. And that is not all of dog obedience training but it certainly plays a part in every part of training. Otherwise, I agree wholeheartedly with everything you said. Kids, if they are going to around the dogs in anyway, should be responsible for the training. This puts them in a leadership role and allows them to bond with the dog---aside from the actual training these two things are key to having a dog that respects children. That is why most bites happen. Parents get complacent thinking their dog would never hurt a child, so they end up putting the child and dog in a situation that is lose lose. Anyway, I rambled but love your post.

And thanks Amanda for all the info. Glad to see you and others who actually get it.

If I had a dog, it would look just like that Rottenwieller.

This Is tragic but, the owner did try to shield the kids from the dog,and took the dogs to have them put down. No owner can know what any dog will do. The Dog is still a "beast" like any other "beast" they act to running and the rest of the pact will follow. We can't blame the Dog for being a Dog. Yet, we can we really blame this woman? She had no idea that would happen.

Yes they were the cutest little things you ever laid your eyes on, I'm sure. Dogs are pack animals. It is what it is. What a shame, the woman couldn't have restrained them better than that.

And one more thing:

Please, people, don't buy a puppy from someone who has a cage sitting by the side of the road with a sign that says 'Puppyes $100.' You're just feeding into the 'backyard-bred' problem. PLEASE check out your local shelter first, check the internet for rescues (there's a rescue for practically every breed--I had a coworker ask me yesterday for a rescue for Cavalier King Charles Spaniels and yes there's a rescue for them too).

And while many people, including shelter volunteers, will knock getting dogs off Craigslist, I'm not--for many, a Craigslist ad is the last ditch effort before being abandoned at Animal Control and a possible trip to the euthanasia room (euphemistically called the 'Rainbow Room'.)

And while we're going on about dogs biting people--look at what people do to dogs! Had a pit come in who must have lost a fight, the owner poured battery acid on the dog and chucked him out the back of the car in the middle of the highway. By the time a couple saw this dog in the road, picked him up and brought him in, the acid had eaten into his muscle, tendon, skin and fur and when he came in you could see internal organs hanging out and he could no longer even stand.

While we're punishing the dog for what he does to people, why don't we punish what people do to the dog?!

Vicious breeds like Pitbulls should be banned, like they are in England (They are so much smarter in the UK). I don't know why people want to own vicious, killer breeds---like pitbulls---I can understand criminals doing it, but regular folk???Why??? Recently, there was a story about a young woman who had rescued several vicious breed dogs from a shelter. This woman was found dead, killed by her own dogs.......bitten while alive, until dead....

apache, we will have to disagree. An Alpha (male or female) NEVER stops trying to be leader of the pack. They will bite the hand that feeds them. Just like there are some stallions that cannot be in horse shows/races. Alpha's. They dont take no for an answer. Of all the dogs we raised we only had 3 true alphas. One female, and two males. It takes a very special home to raise an alpha in and the primary factor in their success is you simply do not put them in a position where they are at risk of feeling the need to be dominanent over a situation.

The kid ran ahead of the male rottie. Leader. The rottie reacted as an alpha. No body gets to tell him no. Not even his owner.

People still own pits in the UK. lol. Just do a YouTube search. All it did was push the dog fighting/drug peddlers/backyard breeders underground.

I am "regular folk". I have owned a pit bull I adopted for 5.5 years without so much as a funny look that would make me uneasy. In his first home, people beat him and tried to make him mean---he has the scars to prove it. He was let go on the street because he was not mean enough. So vicious? Yes, with an inexperienced person, pit bull type dogs are dangerous. The same can be said for any breed.

Why did I adopt my dog? Because I ran into a stray pit bull in the dark once. She growled at me because we startled each other. Once I introduced myself in the way dogs do, she was my best friend and slept with me for a few days until I found her owner. I suspect her owner was not so nice because she came back to me and sat in the rain outside my window without barking until I noticed her. Point is...

The story about the girl you referenced is the exception. Not the rule. I remember the story well. She had just rescued a Presa that was blamed for leading the attack and the other dogs followed. It was a tragic mistake on the girl's part where she either didn't recognize an impending problem or literally just bad luck. She might have been knocked down while playing and it escalated to what it did. The reality still is attacks are the exception. People against so-called vicious dogs love to reference dog bite statistics, like how pit bulls are only 5% of the dog population but they account for 70% of attacks.

The truth though? Pit bulls are not one breed of dog. The term pit bull accounts for typically two breeds especially but can include many many more depending on the individual's idea of pit bull. Also, 60-70% of our shelters are full of pit bulls. Many of those dogs are killed and never adopted out. Why does that matter? For starters, pit bulls make up far more than 5% of the dog population. Secondly, if many of those dogs are not being adopted out please tell me how the same shelters are filling up with more pit bulls? I'll tell you. Backyard breeders. Dog fighters. In other words, that Golden Retriever from the reputable breeder in your town? He is a rarity in the pit bull world...meaning, lots of unprepared, uneducated families are getting dogs they will never be able to handle for cheap money. Which leads to more what? Animal abuse, dog fighting, etc., but most of all...bites/attacks. It is simple logistics. If the number of a certain breed in shelters is high, the bite statistics for that breed are going to be high as well. When another breed becomes popular to those same backyard breeders, you will see the same problem arise with that breed.

RainDaze...I actually agree with everything you said. I might disagree about the idea of a true alpha but only because I think you are trying to imply those dogs are somehow uncontrollable in the wrong hands which I have found to be very easy.

As far as this story, yes...the male rottie was the leader and no one was going to stop him. That is precisely what I said. But in my hands, the dog never would have attacked a child because I would be make sure I was the alpha. You can disagree with that all you like but the reality is, those kids would have been fine if she had taken precautions or better yet, had control over her animals. Dogs are man's best friend for a reason. They aim to please us. The only way they fail in that regard is if we fail them.

Dobe owner here, and the only problems with other dogs I've ever experienced is with Pits: Intact males to be exact. Three events in less than one year. Since we don't have a lot of little kids in our lives, she is always leashed whenever we meet these short humans. It's a sit stay command immediately, and I always caution the children not to move fast but to let her meet and greet quietly. Anyone who owns any breed of dog must be responsible and always in control. Regarding eye stare, whenever my girl starts acting up she gets the alpha eye stare and backs down. She knows who is boss in our family, although I do admit she can be stubborn at times. So sad when this happens to any family.

Yeah saying you owned one of these things for 5.5 years without incident doesn't mean much. Nearly always the owner is shocked because they've owned the thing for years without a nip, one of these days we'll be reading about you and your dog who never bit anyone until it ripped the throat out of some kid... Rubberducky76 said exactly what I've been saying for years, when they're 5% of the dog population but responsible for most fatalities it is more than mean or bad owners... Much more.

Do you notice that those who defend these dangerous breeds can only bring up examples of other breeds that BIT them? We are talking about dogs that kill on a whim.

Then there was the post that would blame a human for not knowing that staring at a vicious breed is a challenge.

This lady is irresponsible or maybe clueless.I am hoping for a full and speedy recovery for the little ones.Having the dogs put down wasn't a nice thing to do.People who know how to train and socialize dogs and who do not have small children in their lives could have had these dogs for pets.I think that irresponsible pet owners should be put down.

Because staring at any dog you do not know in the DOG WORLD is a challenge. That is how any dog will see it...so get your rear bit if you want. I'll use common sense and not give a dog reason to bite me.

And F Walsh...I am sorry but I will never be one of those people. If you want to think so, go right ahead. Also, pits account for more than 5% of the total dog population. Since most shelters are between 50-70% pit bulls(many of those dogs are never adopted out but killed), and yet more pits are coming in...it only stands to reason pit bulls account for a heck of a lot more than 5% which would in turn explain a high bite number. If you want to be ignorant about a great breed of dog fine but please do not lap me in with the kinds of people that own dogs that will bite. They are a very select group of evil people---or in this case a naive owner who thought she had control when she did not---and often it is their loved ones who get attacked, not them.

I had 2 wonderful Rotts and 6 children. Not once did my dogs do anything to my kids, even when the kids crawled all over them. I had my dogs when they were 6 weeks old and trained them as soon as they were in my home. It is most certainly the owners responsibility to train and socialize their dogs so this kind of situation never happens.

wiseone said:

Vicious breeds like Pitbulls should be banned, like they are in England (They are so much smarter in the UK).

Hah. Belfast, Ireland just euthanized a dog named Lennox this past April because they said he was one of the banned pitbulls.

He was a child's service dog, the family had gotten the dog before the laws was in place, there was no history of aggression or issues with Lennox, and celebrity Cesar Millan (the Dog Whisperer) ofered to relocate Lennox outside of England on his own dime just to save the dog's life.

Belfast Ireland euthanized him anyway based on the measurement of his nose, even after DNA testing proved he had no pit bull in him.

Good for Ireland, Dogs here have more rights than Home Owners. I can't walk the sidewalks because these idiot dog owners got their dogs walking down the center of the side walk and to me its just like someone pointing a gun for everyone to get out of their way. I get tired of screaming at people hold your dog while they are carelessly walking the dog and talking on their cell phones. A person might as well shoot the owner if they have to shoot their dog because that dog owner will kill you if you hit that dog that is attacking you

I've owned Rottweilers all my life.

I've raised my children with them, and now am raising my grandchildren with them.

The only danger my Rottweiler is - to anyone that tries to grab one of the kids.

Serious.

Cocker Spaniels are more aggressive than Rottweilers.

Cocker Spaniels might be more aggressive than Rottweilers and Pit Bulls, but their bites are far less likely to do serious damage or kill someone.

That is the point you are missing when you defend these dangerous breeds. A nip from a Rottweiler or Pit Bull is worse than a serious bite from a Cocker Spaniel. A full-on attack from a big, powerful dog is a gruesome way to die.

As for the owners not training their dogs, very few dog owners are responsible or disciplined enough to own such dangerous animals. Very few owners of any breed have taken the time to train their dogs properly. Most people have dogs that bark, jump on people, climb on furniture, chase people and cars, fight with other dogs, run loose, etc. Dog ownership has gotten so out of control in the U.S. that we must carry protection to take a walk in our own neighborhoods. I know a woman who was attacked by her brother's dog, a man who was attacked by a dog being walked on a leash, a woman who needed major plastic surgery after an attack by a neighbor's Rottweiler.

It has gotten so insane that it seems people care more about their dogs than they do about their neighbor's children, or even their own children.

People who are attacked by dogs are scarred emotionally as well as physically.

Dogs that attack people need to be put down. No exceptions. End of story.

Just to add that nobody can hold back a large adult male Rottweiler when it wants to go after something. These are powerful animals that should be kept confined to their own property, always. I do not feel safe passing a leashed Pit Bull or a Rottweiler on the street because I know the owner can't hold that dog back.

People have the right to walk up to your door without being attacked by your dog. People have the right to be a guest in your house without fear of being bitten by your dog, or without being annoyed by your dog.

If you can't train your dog to obey you, don't get a dog. If you have a dog that doesn't obey you, either train it or get rid of it.

Owning a pitbull or rottweiler around small children is just stupid. It's like driving a big frontloader around a preschool: Yes, technically it can be safe, the owner needs to be responsible, properly trained, and take precautions, and they can be great things to have around. BUT WHY THE F WOULD YOU TAKE THE CHANCE!!!!

To all those that are going on about training the kids,
Please re-read the article. These were toddlers. i.e.. human puppies if that works better for you.
Kids run, jump and play, parents do their best to reign them in, but when you visit your relatives,
and they have dangerous animals, well, all of the "they should have, could have" goes out the window.

If you have a desire to own guns or pit-bulls, to not fix the loose railing on your porch, or drink till you fall down,
that is your right. However, all of these legal pastimes may be putting other people,
children in particular, in danger.

If you want to do this stuff, then find a heritage on some lonely mountain top, and hope
help can get to you in you need it.
and let your friends and relatives know your priorities, so they'll know not to visit.
I never got bit by a pit bull as a child for the same reason that I was never eaten by a lion.
I never came in contact with one. Why do grown-ups need these toys? I don't get it.

All of the lame "blame the owners not the breed" nuts come out of the woodwork.

http://media.cleveland.com/metro/other/Dog%20attack%20stats%20%2010-15-09.pdf

A report detailing deaths and maimings by breed from 1982 to 2010 in the U.S. and Canada.

Pitts and rotts make up little more than 5% of the total dog population but account for an average of around 70% of all maimings and killings. These dogs were bred to kill. They were bred to be killing machines. Are there docile pitts and rotts? There certainly are. I can also tell you that in most cases of maimings and deaths by these breeds the owners will tell you that the dogs have never exhibited aggressive behavior before. It is the breed and rarely the owner. Numbers don't lie, but the blind defenders of the breeds do.

My family has owned several dogs, and we've been diligent about training-normally taking our dogs to more than one class. However, we've had two dogs we had to return to shelters because we could not stop them from being aggressive even after working a good bit with dog trainers and in the second case spending a lot of money going to a behaviorist. Neither dog was a pit bull or a rottie. One was normally a very gentle breed, but it had a problem with fear aggression-possibly due to past abuse, according to the behaviorist-and bit my daughter. Someone would probably have been able to work with both these dogs, but I could not deal with a dog that might bite my daughter again (or someone else) if I did not keep it on a leash and away from her constantly or a dog that snarled at everyone who wasn't immediate family. We couldn't handle the lawsuit risk alone.

Those who talk like it's no big deal to train abused dogs must not do it in the context of a family or neighbors or all of the other factors that we had to deal with. Either that or they had dogs that were far less aggressive than the ones we had. We were given a plan to follow with our fear aggressive dog, but he would never have been allowed around neighbors, children, strangers, workers in the house, or anyone who hadn't been through a special conditioning program to get him used to them, a program that might take weeks-and children were a no-no forever.

After our bad experiences, we didn't even LOOK at dogs again for a long time. I was scared of every breed because if a dog from that normally sweet breed could be aggressive... We did finally get a dog, and he worked out okay. Let me just say that most of our dogs have been great. In fact, they are often the stars of obedience class. (Even the fear aggressive one did really well in obedience class-99.9% of the time, when he wasn't trying to bite someone, he was the best behaved dog ever! You just couldn't predict when he was going to bite-he wouldn't growl or show his teeth or anything; he'd be lying there and then suddenly leap up and attack. He must have shown some sign before attacking, but it was awfully quick and not very overt.)

"They've never done anything like that before - they've always been so cute."

When my son was a little boy, a neighbor's dog came into our yard and attacked him without any provocation.

Not long afterwards, the dog vanished. Those neighbors actually had the nerve to accuse us of getting rid of their dog, adding insult to injury. We had nothing to do with it, but it was a relief to everyone else in the neighborhood that a vicious dog was gone. My son was not the only child who had been bitten.

Don't be the people who care more about your dangerous dog than about innocent children. If you have an aggressive dog, get rid of it before it hurts someone. Even if the dog does not inflict serious harm, it is a menace to the psychological well-being of your community... and you might be the next one bitten.

Apache - I might disagree about the idea of a true alpha but only because I think you are trying to imply those dogs are somehow uncontrollable in the wrong hands which I have found to be very easy.

I said it takes a special home... Re-read what I said about the primary factor in the success.

Dogs that accept you as alpha are not true Alpha dogs. Using the race horse example again, people who have these types do not always discard the horse. There is still stud service value. But a wise owner does not sell that type of animal to a person looking for a 4-H project because that type of horse will fail and possibly injure or kill the kid trying to ride him.

My kid volunteers for a lady who rescues unplaceable dogs. Dogs that bite. Dogs with health issues. She [the owner] gets a few true alphas and they are handled differently than the others. They dont go out in public because the risk to people is too high. They are fed alone. They are not hand fed treats. You do not approach them to pet, you call the dog to you. And they will refuse this as often as they accept being called. You wont get to scratch their belly, they dont show it to you. They are always muzzled at the vet because they do bite during the exams. And they dont get to form a pack. They can be socialized with some of the other special needs dogs, because not all dogs that bite are alphas and some accept the 'true' Alphas dominant position. But they [alphas] are rotated around because they can lead the other dogs down a wrong path so a pack cannot be allowed to form around them. Just like the article says:

the male Rottweiler, which weighed about 180 pounds, chased and attacked her. The other two dogs followed and then turned on Kaitlyn.

Amanda touched on genetics/breeding factors and there is validity to that claim. When people breed for aggression in their animals, they increase the likelyhood of true alphas being born, which is contrary to the purpose of domestic dogs. True alphas do not make good pets nor do they make good protection dogs. They are too independent. They dont need a pack structure. The only hierarchy they want around them is everyone must submit to their wants. They are dictators and they will bite their owners because they are not owned. This is why the owner was bitten. She got in the way of what the Alpha was doing (dominating the child). The way you present the alpha position in human/dog interactions is the generalized application. This dog hurt its owner, something normal dogs do not do.

I hope this helps clarify our differences.

If .00000000000000001% possibility exsisted that a dog would bite my kid i would not have ANY breed.

ASSUME they will bite the kids ASSUME THEY WILL. Get rid of em.

FU3KING DUMBA55E5

Again, not differences. I agree with what you are saying but I didn't quite understand. Maybe a poor choice of words on your part because I have never met such a dog and I have met many dogs. I know dogs you mention exist but in my world, they are referred to differently and usually seen as problem dogs. I think that is where my confusion was---you talked as if these dogs were special or even revered and as you explain it above, that is certainly not the case. Anyway, thanks for clarifying. Bad breeding can certainly makes that type of dog more common---in the pit world, we see it a lot with "blue" pits.

RainDaze:

Amanda touched on genetics/breeding factors and there is validity to that claim. When people breed for aggression in their animals, they increase the likelyhood of true alphas being born, which is contrary to the purpose of domestic dogs.

Here's an example for you:

We are wrapped up in a lawsuit right now between a mailman and the female owner of a group of six dogs we are currently quarantining at the shelter that have been dubbed 'The Pack'. The owner started with two, a male and a female. Which was OK, there were never any problems except that she didn't have shots and dog licenses and they got out of the yard sometimes, but they never bit anyone, human or animal. Let's call them Dog A (male) and B (female).

Then the female went in heat, and she had four puppies. The owner kept two, both girls, Dog C and D, but she didn't get them fixed, so when they went into heat, they got pregnant by their own father, and she kept two, one puppy from C and one puppy from D let's call them AC and AD since they are the product of their own grandfather also being their father. (incest, or inbreeding.)

AC and AD have Hannibal Lecter/Jekyll-and-Hyde personalities. They can be really sweet one minute, and turn around and bite you the next. They are currently being quarantined in our shelter until we know the results of the VDHB hearing and the civil lawsuit and our staff handles them with catchpoles because they know these dogs WILL bite. Their owner brought all six of them to the shelter one day last year to get their rabies shots done (we offer low-cost rabies shots at a once-monthly shot clinic) and Animal Control had to bring catchpoles out ot the parking lot because The Pack (led by AC and AD) attacked a pitbull and ripped one ear completely off--the whole Pack, following the two Alpha dogs AC and AD, (including A, B, C, and D, who never had behavior problems before AC and AD came along.) AC and AD are also responsible for biting children, and on one occasion they killed AND ATE a cat that wandered into their yard.

So this lady lets The Pack out onto the yard one day, and the mailman comes up. He swears he checked the yard to see if The Pack was out before opening the gate to put mail in the box next to the front door. When he turned arond he was attacked by six furry bundles who knocked him off the step, put him on the ground, shredded both pant legs and bit off one testicle (and presumably ate it since we found blood but no body parts.)

He's suing the woman for having vicious dogs.

She's protesting that they only attacked because he was in her yard, that he should have checked the yard before he came in to see if her dogs were out, and anyway her dogs are little darlings and would never do that deliberately, they were just protecting her property. We are currently waiting on a VDHB hearing to determine if the dogs will be euthanized for viciousness--the entire neighborhood has filed notices syaing they will show up to testify against this woman being able to keep her dogs because they are a huge problem in the neighborhood. Every single one of us in the shelter, volunteers, care staff, and Animal Control, as much as we love all animals, feel the whole lot of them is irredeemable and want all of them euthanized. There won't be any crying either.

Oh, by the way--the dogs are a pack of Chihuahuas.

We tracked down the other three puppies from the litter created by crossing A with C (dog C had four, the owner only kept one, the Alpha dog we dubbed AC) and the other two from the AxD cross (D had three, owner kept one, AD, sold the others.) The five inbred puppies, when we talked to their owners, all said their dogs were unpredictable, not safe around children, and two owners said they were currently involved in bite cases (albeit in other jurisdictions) and one owner had said his puppy was too unpredictable and he'd already had the puppy euthanized because he didn't feel safe around it--a week after he'd gotten the dog he said he just felt the puppy was 'wrong' and didn't feel safe taking the dog out on the road with him (he's a trucker.)

So here's validation of the problems with a dog being poor breeding/genetics, poor ownership, and the Alpha dog agressive syndrome. Concrete proof that you shouldn't backyard breed, and get your dog fixed!!!

@bewu & Ron B-2757074

"The Rottweiler is a medium to large size breed of domestic dog. The dogs were known as "Rottweil butchers' dogs" because they were used to herd livestock and pull carts laden with butchered meat and other products to market" - Source: Fédération CynoIogique Internationale-Standard N° 147/ 19. 06. 2000 / GB The Rottweiler. Translated by - Mrs C. Seidler Country of Origin – Germany. Available online at ADRK website Rottweiler Breed Standard, ADRK.de

The Rottweiler's main job was herding cattle. Their large and solid size is due to the fact that they are descendents from when the Roman draft dogs bred with the local dogs.

"Rottweilers are a powerful breed with well-developed genetic herding and guarding instincts. As with any breed, potentially dangerous behaviour in Rottweilers usually results from irresponsible ownership, abuse, neglect, or lack of socialisation and training. However, the exceptional strength of the Rottweiler is an additional risk factor not to be neglected. It is for this reason that breed experts recommend that formal training and extensive socialisation are essential for all Rottweilers. According to the AKC, Rottweilers love their owners and may behave in a clownish manner toward family and friends, but they are also protective of their territory and do not welcome strangers until properly introduced. Obedience training and socialisation are required. - Source: American Kennel Club Standard for the Rottweiler, akc.org

They also happen to be one of the most popular in Germany for looking after children as they are protective of anyone that is family.

"In 2011, of the 33 recorded dog attack fatalities in the U.S., four were by Rottweilers.^[12] Breed-specific bite rates are not known, and less responsible owners being drawn to certain breeds may be a factor.^[13] Dogs bite approximately 4.7 million people in the U.S. each year, with fewer than 30 dog-bite-related human fatalities^[14] from a total dog population estimated by the American Pet Products Association^[15] at 77.5 million dogs. A 2008 study surveying breed club members found that while Rottweilers were average in aggressiveness (bites or bite attempts) towards owners and other dogs, it indicated they tend to be more aggressive than average towards strangers. This aggression appears correlated with watchdog and territorial instincts. (16) - Sources:

I've had a number of Rottweilers all were literally "Lap Dogs", Pitbulls including rescues, Dobermans, a Wolf Dog - aka Hybrid Mix, and a Filo Brasileiro (Brazilian Mastiff) - aka Jaguar Dog (his job is to watch the twins). The most dangerous dogs that I have ever owned was an extremely large Irish Setter that I rescued from a feral pack and a Miniature Doberman that we saved from a shelter aka - effing Landshark :)

Heck the kids and the cats all cuddle with them. Even the Parrot and horses like them.

Jomo da Music Man siad:

Good for Ireland,

You did see the part in my post about Lennox that he was a child's trained service dog (that dog cost about $10,000) no history of aggression, and DNA testing showed he wasn't even a pitbull, right?

ApacheRosePea00

American Pit Bull Terriers may only make up a small percentage of the total dog population...but you are forgetting two important factors. Of the majority who own pit bull type dogs, many are people who use them to fight and beat them so they are protection dogs...aka the scum of the earth

Sorry you are just plain wrong. When I hear of ppl dying from pit bulls, the owner is NEVER a drug dealer or dog abusers/or ppl that fight them.....It's usually some average Joe bring his wife home with their new precious newborn, the newborn gets ate 3 days later, and you hear the crying parents say....I only left the room for a few seconds, he has NEVER been aggressive before etc etc.....Or how about the woman that was pregnant, her hubby comes home finds her on the floor with her womb ripped out by the male pit bull while the female pit bull cowered in the corner. These don't sound like dog ring leaders fighting their pets, sounds like ppl with NO COMMON SENSE. Poodles may bite more, but guess what it isn't going to kill your newborn in 3 seconds flat. The dog world won't fall to pieces if we terminate the breed of pit bulls. Since EVERYONE here agrees the owners are not responsible then you must agree we can never have a "safe" breed of pit bull. So exterminate them like the killers they are. And I don't think these ppl are abusing their pit bull when they go to court to try to save the dogs life AFTER it kills their kid. Those parents should be put down as well, something not right in the head with them.

One of the most informative programs on television, or look it up on the web. The Dog Whisper.

Wendy...one simple question. Do you really think a drug dealer/dog abuser is going to confess to being such?? I can promise you this happens more than you care to realize. It happened in my town, only the pit bull in question attacked the drug dealer's kid which is often how it goes. The offender doesn't get attacked but a member of their family does. My neighbor's family...you can hear them fighting sometimes and yelling at the dog. It is not a pit bull. The dog bit the mom's face off supposedly unprovoked. Literally, the lower part of her face was torn clean off. You can give me all the hype you want. I'll keep owning my dogs responsibly and no one around me will be harmed because of it. Meanwhile, more people will be attacked and say it was unprovoked when, even if they are good people, they had to be doing something to encourage the attack. Through no fault of his own the kid in the story running ahead made the male rottie go into a prey drive. I am not blaming the kid---he was being a kid. Likewise, I cannot blame the dog...it was doing what dogs do. The only one left is the owner who could have prevented it in so many ways.

The truth is my statement did not say dog abusers and drug dealers are the ones who get bit. I said they create the kind of dogs that bite. They also sell puppies cheap to anyone who wants one---dogs unfit to be pets because they are from fighting parents...leaving unprepared "pet" owners with an attack waiting to happen. So you can say I am wrong but I know I am right. There is no other excuse for the inordinate amount of pit bulls in shelters...and when those are put down more come in right behind them. How does that happen if only good people own pit bulls?

On another note, only in very rare cases do dogs attack unprovoked and unless someone is a total moron, they would never go within 100ft of such a dog...because it is very clear dogs like that want to kill you. All too often, those kind of dogs come from horrible breeding as Amanda shared above or from health issues like old age. In all cases, it is very clear the animals are not safe...and all of those animals are created by backyard breeders. Unless you have an owner that ignores the obvious clues.

I think most of you are missing the main point here, the problem here was the AUNT. She thought she could control three dogs and two toddlers. The poor toddlers now have to pay the price, for her poor choice, along with their parents.

Toddlers are not miniature adults, they do not have the knowledge, experience or mental capacity to see consequences to their actions. They need to be watched so they do not do dangerous things and taught what is safe to do and what is not.

Dogs are animals, no matter how smart they seem, they are not humans, they do not have the capacity to rationalize their actions, they rely on instincts and training.

Not to denounce the toddlers...they are what matter most here...but the last statement you made says it all. Dogs rely on instincts and training. The statement is so very true, yet many humans seem to think dogs are vicious and unpredictable. Instincts at their core...are they not predictable? I keep getting crap because I own a pit bull and people saying one day I will regret owning him. That is ironic because as a pit owner, if there ever comes a day when something bad does happen, the only feeling I will have is that I somehow failed my dog...just like the woman in this story failed the two little ones and her three dogs. So tragic.

The Breed DOES matter! There are dogs that are traditionally great "family dogs" and then there dogs that should NEVER be in or around families with children.

It's not fair to the dog to be placed in a situation that it instinctively reacts the way it was bred.

I've seen Australian Sheep Dogs gently "herd" children when playing with them. Labs & Goldens naturally nurture the young (human or canine). My GSP (German Shorthaired Pointer) is very gentle around kids but it instinctively goes into hunting mode when suddenly in the presence of a bird or small animal.

Pits, Rots and the like are bred a specific way to fulfill a breed-specific function. That function is not one of being family friendly. There are rare exceptions. But they are JUST the exception. It's just NOT worth the risk.

Got kids then get a Lab.

We had a Black Lab/Rott mix. He looked like a Lab and acted like one, but had the gold markings. We raised him from a puppy and if anything, he was cowardly. One day, my husband was sitting on the floor, painting around the baseboards. Max slunk into the small hall and crouched only about 4 ft. from my husband.

Max started snarling and snapping his jaws and had his head lowered and I swear his eyes looked like a wolf who was going to kill you. It scared me to death.

My husband got up and all the while, Max was getting crazier and meaner. My husband walked over and yanked him by the collar and put him outside.

We are retired and have no children but have grandchildren. We also have Pugs.

We sent Max to live with my son and I was glad to see him go.

I don't care what anyone says, an 180 lb dog and small kids do no mix. What was she thinking walking two young kids and 3 large dogs all at once?

I say if you have any kids at all around you, do not have a large breed dog. Even in a moment of frustration, or getting their foot stepped on etc. a large dog can do serious damage with one snap.

I personally would never have another large dog, and I can't imagine anyone wanting a dog that could and would eat you. Getting bit to death is a bad death.

A Pitt that was up in the hills on a family compound killed my son-In-Law's beloved Queensland [eviserated] and then killed his friends dog and a few others that ran around. The dad had brought this dog home.

The murdered dogs were not aggressive or possesive, this brute just tracked them down and tore them up. Pitts should be outlawed.

Pits being people friendly are not the exception. A well socialized, trained pit bull generally loves humans, even when humans do horrible things to them. I have one that is living proof of that. If you don't believe it or don't care, so be it but stop telling me I should have to outlaw my dog because of some other irresponsible people who know nothing about animals(I am talking about the bad pit owners and people like the lady in this story who was clearly not thinking when she tried to walk two small children and three large dogs.

And Carole J...sorry about your Black Lab/Rot mix. Just because that happened, it does not make all other dogs like that evil. It could have been pore breeding or inbreeding or any number of other things that made him turn like that. It also could have been something different your husband was doing. Maybe he smelled different. Maybe Max was sick. The simplest things can actually be triggers and often times, people who own dogs never know what triggers a dog. Point is...that could have been any breed. Not just a Lab/rottie mix. And the pit bull that killed the other dogs...my understanding is a human bought that dog there and continued to let the pit bull kill the other dogs...that is not a pit bull issue at all. The human brought home an unknown animal and let it do whatever it wanted. Any responsible owner would have made sure to bring home a decent dog, regardless of breed, and if the animal did fight with other dogs, they would never keep it while it killed all of them. Seriously, that is not a pit issue. The poor pit bull only did what it was trained and sadly bred to do...most likely through poor breeding/inbreeding that caused behavior issues. Those are dangerous dogs and as a pit owner, I would never bring one in my home. To do so then blame the dog because I screwed up? That would be pretty dumb.

Amanda -

Every single one of us in the shelter, volunteers, care staff, and Animal Control, as much as we love all animals, feel the whole lot of them is irredeemable and want all of them euthanized. There won't be any crying either.

I dont believe the owners version. I dont believe they havent adjusted their lives to not offend their little darlings. I would guess they have both been bitten by the younger dogs (if not all of them). I also wonder if A and B are also related via some puppy mill.

As far as putting them to sleep, its sad because its not the dogs fault (AC, AD should have never existed). Shelter resources are limited so the money and time have to be spent on animals with a clear potential for success, along with the shelter has its own reputation to maintain.

RainDaze said:

I dont believe the owners version. I dont believe they havent adjusted their lives to not offend their little darlings. I would guess they have both been bitten by the younger dogs (if not all of them). I also wonder if A and B are also related via some puppy mill.

Oh, we're positive she's not telling the truth about never having a problem with her 'little darlings'. These dogs have been quarantined for a month now awaiting the results of the VDHB hearing and the more time they spend away from the owner the more evident it is that AC and AD are the alphas and rule the pack. And as she purchased A from a pet shop and B from a classified ad (she says, but she's lied about other stuff so we can't be sure) beyond the A/B generation we can't be sure. However, the results of inbreeding are clear in the last generation, AC and AD's generation, and our tracking down the other five puppies from that generation showed all of them were highly intelligent but unstable (psychopaths).

As far as putting them to sleep, its sad because its not the dogs fault (AC, AD should have never existed).

Yes, they shouldn't. While the dogs need to be euthanized because they are a danger to others (come on, they ATE a mainman's testicle!) let's go after the owner who made them what they are.

Shelter resources are limited so the money and time have to be spent on animals with a clear potential for success, along with the shelter has its own reputation to maintain.

Yes. Unfortunately sometimes those common-sense logic like that gets lost in the 'stop killing dogs' hype. I will say that I have not always agreed with the shelter on their policies.

We got a 5 year old husky in when her elderly owners died and the couple's kids didn't want her. She was terribly lost, confused, the elderly couple's apartment had been very quiet and sedentary and the shelter was chaotic and confusing for her. We eventually had a woman express an interest in adopting her, and she said she had a quiet home, apartment, couple of kids but because their apartment was so small she didn't have visitors over. She brought both her kids to meet the dog and everything seemed to go well, so we allowed her to adopt the husky and take it home, with instructions that she should keep the home quiet for the first week and let the dog adjust to routine gradually.

Now I was working Animal Control's call center that night and we got a call in from that same woman asking us to come out to her house and get the dog we'd just adopted to her that afternoon because the dog was growling at everyone. In the background we could hear a lot of kids yelling, running around, screaming, multiple adult male voices yelling profanity, and at one point she interrupted her call to us and yelled "Lonnie go sit yo a$$ down and shut the f*** up!" Definitely not the quiet home we'd thought the dog was going to!

When our AEO went out and brought her in, I checked his report when I filed the 'return adoption' paperwork and it turned out that yes, the woman had an apartment and two kids, but she did NOT mention that her boyfriend was sharing the apartment with her and he had three kids of his own, all teenagers and when we looked up his name, he had several arrests for drug posession with intent to distribute. (which indicates that he probably had people coming and going at all hours of the day and night to buy.)

Unfortunately because she came back on an aggression issue she was rendered 'unadoptable' and placed on the euthanasia list. When I came in the next day I didn't see the note at the bottom of the cage card, and I showed her to a potential adopter. This guy, I'll call him Brian, had come into town from another state to visit a friend, the friend said "I want to visit the shelter to pick out a dog' and Brian just tagged along, but the minute he saw this husky cowering in the back of the kennel he fell in love. He sat on the floor in front of the kennel talking to her, making comforting noises, and she crept closer until he could reach through the chainlink to scratch an ear. I took her out so they could meet, and it seemed like a good match, then when he said he wanted to take her home I took him up to fil out the paperwork I found she'd been scheduled for euthanasia.

Brian refused to take no for an answer; he argued, strenuously--he was in his late 40's, an engineer, a widower, had a 9 acre mountain ranch the next state over, had one grown daughter and worked a 9-5 job, so his home was quiet and completely suitable for this husky and he was willing to sign a waiver saying he wouldn't hold the shelter liable if she bit him. The shelter took it under advisement and said they'd hold on the euthanasia until they consulted with the board of directors.

The next day he was back, siting in front of her cage for nearly four hours, talking to her, tossing treats into her kennel. And thte next day. And the next. He had a two week vacation from his job and he sat in front of her cage for four hours each day talking to her and giving her treats. At the end of the two weeks we got permission from the board to go ahead and let him adopt as long as he signed a waiver of liability, which he did, and now we get a photo postcard from him and her every Christmas (it's been four years.) He's never had any problems with her aggression, she loves the snow on his ranch and his only complaint is that she snores at night and hogs too much of the bed covers!

I got in trouble for what I did--not paying attention to the cage card, taking out a dog that had aggression issues and was scheduled for euthanasia. I was suspended from all animal work for a week and spent the time washing dishes, doing laundry, and filing dog license registration. And I didn't mind a bit. Even knowing all that though, if I could go back and make that choice again, I would still have done what I did.

Amanda

Huskies are a good example of a strong pack instinct (read structured environment) wrapped up in a high energy very tough body. That dog was very lucky to have Brian find him.

My parents took back a dog that we had sold to a policeman (but not a police dog). The dog was well trained but neighbor kids were torturing the kenneled dog when the owners were at work and the wife feared if the dog ever got loose it would kill someone. They brought the dog over and they tested his temperment. It was a good dog so we began rehab. The dog was used to kenneling so it went into the kennels with an empty kennel between him and the other dogs. After a few days female dog was put into the kennel along side 'Kito' and he was great. No aggression towards the neighboring dogs. Dad fed and cleaned his cage; worked him on a leash with obedience training, then mom was introduced and she did the feeding/working on a leash (outside at first, then in the house). He was great with them.

Us kids still worked the other dogs and I remember Kito just watching what was going on (seeing what the other dogs in the pack did/how they reacted to us kids). I would sit down in front of his cage and talked with him and watched as he mellowed towards me; going from trying to break through the chain link to get me (glazed over rage filled eyes) to just standing alert (ready to defend himself) to ignoring me and going about his business (he knew the routine and wasnt concerned with my presence). I cant remember how long it took before he quit throwing himself against the fence; a couple of weeks... I do remember thinking, this dog isnt going to come around and a few days later change began.

Without going into a lot of detail about the work, Kito never fully accepted my littlest brother. He never bit him, but Kito didnt quite get over the bad experience either. My parents put out the word we had a dog that needed a special home (my parents were well connected in the obedience/confirmation dog world).

The phone call came, an over the road trucker wanted an adult dog to keep him company. This man was the perfect fit. Unmarried, didnt want kids of his own, 30ish years old so he knew what he wanted out of life so he came out to meet Kito. It was almost 3 months of him training with this dog before we turned over ownership. Not every day training because of his job, but there was no way this dog was going into the wrong home and his potential owner needed to know exactly what this dog was.

We also got phone calls over what a fantastic dog Kito was. He lived to be 15 years old and never bit a child his entire life.

Amen, Rubberducky! I worked at a vet hospital for years and yes, little wannabe dogs are the worse for fear biting, etc... The only time I was bitten was by a German Shepherd. BUT the statistics are overwhelming. There are 2 breeds of dogs who do FAR more than their share of DEATHS and critical attacks. Far more. Stop saying it's not the breed, it's the owner. It only shows your ignorance. They have builds and instincts that are responsible for those statistics. I had a veterinarian I work for show me how my favorite Rottie we boarded could change in seconds with an eyelock. It was scary.

Please, please tell me you know longer work in a vet clinic. You seem to have a discriminatory attitude of certain breeds as a whole, and pits in particular don't need someone with your attitude in charge of their well being. If you don't understand the relationship between pet owner and how they raise their pets and pet aggression, then it is you that is ignorant. Pits do have the physiological ability to be dangerous. The anatomy of their jaw and their muscles make them very strong animals, which is why when they do attack they tend to do more damage than some other breeds. However, that is also why they are bred for fighting and protection. That "dangerous potential" is what attracts the wrong owners to these dogs who literally use them as weapons. It IS the people that make these dogs aggressive, and it's also the "backyard breeders" that breed pits with who knows what and then sell them to unsuspecting families. True pits are not inherently aggressive dogs. In fact, most of them are some of the smartest and most loving dogs you will ever see. Unfortunately, there is a stigma attached to this breed that causes people like you to discriminate. The media also tends to hone in on any story involving them, too, sparking more fear in people. The truth is that for every aggressive pit (that was RAISED to be aggressive) there are thousands more that would never hurt a fly.

Yes. Unfortunately sometimes those common-sense logic like that gets lost in the 'stop killing dogs' hype. I will say that I have not always agreed with the shelter on their policies.

We got a 5 year old husky in when her elderly owners died and the couple's kids didn't want her. She was terribly lost, confused, the elderly couple's apartment had been very quiet and sedentary and the shelter was chaotic and confusing for her. We eventually had a woman express an interest in adopting her, and she said she had a quiet home, apartment, couple of kids but because their apartment was so small she didn't have visitors over. She brought both her kids to meet the dog and everything seemed to go well, so we allowed her to adopt the husky and take it home, with instructions that she should keep the home quiet for the first week and let the dog adjust to routine gradually.

Now I was working Animal Control's call center that night and we got a call in from that same woman asking us to come out to her house and get the dog we'd just adopted to her that afternoon because the dog was growling at everyone. In the background we could hear a lot of kids yelling, running around, screaming, multiple adult male voices yelling profanity, and at one point she interrupted her call to us and yelled "Lonnie go sit yo a$$ down and shut the f*** up!" Definitely not the quiet home we'd thought the dog was going to!

When our AEO went out and brought her in, I checked his report when I filed the 'return adoption' paperwork and it turned out that yes, the woman had an apartment and two kids, but she did NOT mention that her boyfriend was sharing the apartment with her and he had three kids of his own, all teenagers and when we looked up his name, he had several arrests for drug posession with intent to distribute. (which indicates that he probably had people coming and going at all hours of the day and night to buy.)

Unfortunately because she came back on an aggression issue she was rendered 'unadoptable' and placed on the euthanasia list. When I came in the next day I didn't see the note at the bottom of the cage card, and I showed her to a potential adopter. This guy, I'll call him Brian, had come into town from another state to visit a friend, the friend said "I want to visit the shelter to pick out a dog' and Brian just tagged along, but the minute he saw this husky cowering in the back of the kennel he fell in love. He sat on the floor in front of the kennel talking to her, making comforting noises, and she crept closer until he could reach through the chainlink to scratch an ear. I took her out so they could meet, and it seemed like a good match, then when he said he wanted to take her home I took him up to fil out the paperwork I found she'd been scheduled for euthanasia.

Brian refused to take no for an answer; he argued, strenuously--he was in his late 40's, an engineer, a widower, had a 9 acre mountain ranch the next state over, had one grown daughter and worked a 9-5 job, so his home was quiet and completely suitable for this husky and he was willing to sign a waiver saying he wouldn't hold the shelter liable if she bit him. The shelter took it under advisement and said they'd hold on the euthanasia until they consulted with the board of directors.

The next day he was back, siting in front of her cage for nearly four hours, talking to her, tossing treats into her kennel. And thte next day. And the next. He had a two week vacation from his job and he sat in front of her cage for four hours each day talking to her and giving her treats. At the end of the two weeks we got permission from the board to go ahead and let him adopt as long as he signed a waiver of liability, which he did, and now we get a photo postcard from him and her every Christmas (it's been four years.) He's never had any problems with her aggression, she loves the snow on his ranch and his only complaint is that she snores at night and hogs too much of the bed covers!

I got in trouble for what I did--not paying attention to the cage card, taking out a dog that had aggression issues and was scheduled for euthanasia. I was suspended from all animal work for a week and spent the time washing dishes, doing laundry, and filing dog license registration. And I didn't mind a bit. Even knowing all that though, if I could go back and make that choice again, I would still have done what I did.

Amanda, this brought a tear to my eye. Because of people like you and "Brian" that are willing to give these dogs a chance at a real home, this beautiful animal's life was spared. There should be more like you working with these animals. Your story made my day, and I'm so glad the dog found a loving home. It sounds like the poor thing had been through enough.

Especially taking three rotties and two toddlers for a walk, knowing that you've had trouble with the dogs being aggressive already. A very unwise owner, there.

EVERY owner of a Rott or a Pit will say "they were NEVER like this before......"

But they are not. This owner was not the pack leader...I own a pit bull and I am the pack leader. As I write this, my niece is playing ball with him. All of it is part of knowing how dogs function in the dog world. If you do not know how to read a dog and the actions that are not okay around a dog, you will have issues with dogs and possibly being bitten.

one way to get rid of those pesky kids !

ApacheRosePea00

If you do not know how to read a dog and the actions that are not okay around a dog, you will have issues with dogs and possibly being bitten.

If dogs don't know how to read me and the actions that are not okay around me, they may have issues with me and possibly be shot.

Sorry you feel that way denver bill 2...but the reality is dogs live in the dog world. That is how they work and the only world they live in. We humanize them and create issues in the process.

I know what you are trying to say but I was speaking to people who own dogs. When that kid went running down the street, the male rottie went after him because in his world, the kid was mimicking fleeing prey. That is something, as a dog owner, a person should be aware of and ready for. If the woman used proper training and was prepared as she should have been, the male rottie never would have went after the kid. That is fact and all I was saying. We can't blame a dog for actions that should have been prevented by the owner.

If there is a slight chance that a child will be killed by a dog just because they were playfully running down the sidewalk, then maybe that isn't a breed that is worth having. duh

So we should kill all dogs? Because all dogs have that same instinct and every untrained dog out there will chase a person if allowed to do so.

ApacheRosePeaOO-the "kid" that ran was a 3 year old. Please don't tell us you are blaming a 3 year old kid for running down the sidewalk.

Never Lou...who knows how you would infer such a thing? Just because I want to blame an irresponsible owner because it was all her fault does not mean I would blame the kid. He was running like kids instincts teach them to do. Sadly, that action kicked in the dog's instincts and he did the only thing he knew. All dogs have that instinct so to say we should ban a dog for doing what dogs have done for thousands of years if not longer? Give me a break.

The responsibility 100% falls with the family member who owned the dogs. Leashes, not having a 180lb dog around little kids, teaching the kids how to interact with the dogs, teaching the dogs the kids were "untouchable", etc). So much could have been done. Or to be sure of no issue at all, she never should have walked them all together.

ApacheRosePea00

So we should kill all dogs? Because all dogs have that same instinct and every untrained dog out there will chase a person if allowed to do so.

That's a jump: "you say pitbulls and rotweillers are unsafe around kids, therefore you mean all dogs should be killed." All dogs may have that instinct to some degree, but look at it this way. If you get a call that your kid was in a vehicle accident, would you rather hear it was with a scooter, or a '68 Buick?

http://media.cleveland.com/metro/other/Dog%20attack%20stats%20%2010-15-09.pdf

Read the above report, Apache. It's the breed, not the owner. Pitts and rotts make up little more than 5% of the dog population but account for around 70% of all maimings and killings.

To add to Ron's information, most of the Americans killed by dogs were attacked by their own pets.

Read the stories of dog attack victims before you decide to get any breed of dog. I would suggest that no family with very young children or elderly and infirm members get a dog that has the potential to maim or kill.

Dogs are domesticated, but they are still animals with animal instincts, sharp teeth and in the case of some breeds, powerful jaws. Dogs can and do attack and kill.

Train your dog! Do not assume that it will never hurt anyone! As others have stated, dogs are pack animals and unless you establish your absolute authority over them continually, they will instinctively try to gain the upper hand. Even small dogs have attacked and killed babies when left alone with a dog, so NEVER leave a baby or a small child alone with a dog.

sullyness...I never said pits and rotties were unsafe. I posed a question to someone else who thinks they are unsafe.

Ron...I will never read biased statistics stacked to prove an agenda. Pit bulls make up way more than 5% of the dog population for example. Most shelters are half pit bulls at least...and many of them are kill shelters, meaning the dogs are never adopted out but instead killed...and more pits replace the ones that are killed. How is it possible to only have 5% as pets when 50-70% of shelter dogs are pit bulls? It is not possible but thanks for playing. I am not even going to count the number of illegally owned pit bulls that are fought and used to protect drug houses...in other words, the number is far higher than 5%.

And kaybeetoys. Most of what you say is great, however, most Americans who are attacked? A good percentage of them do not treat their animals as their pets. People abuse the dogs and try to make them mean, leading to seemingly unprovoked attacks---either on a weaker family member or person who knows the family...but no one is going to stand up and say, "yes, I abused my dog." Just pointing that out.

OMG! Really? You think that pit bulls make up 50-70% of the dog population based on what are in shelters? Hmm... African americans make up 13.6% of the U.S. population but black men make up 40.2% of all prison inmates. I guess census data is wrong and african americans must make up 40.2% of the U.S. population.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/10/12/michelle-alexander-more-black-men-in-prison-slaves-1850_n_1007368.html

The following seven men control most major media outlets and conglomerates in America. They all happen to be Jewish. Using your logic, since most of the CEOs of U.S. media conglomerates are Jewish then most people in America must be Jewish.

Lastly, I provide numbers and facts with links in my posts. You provide nothing but distorted opinion. Perhaps there is a disproportionately high number of pit bulls in shelters because they are the ones picked up or turned over for being aggressive. My wife is a postal carrier. Two months ago, one of her coworkers was attacked by a pit bull at a residence she had delivered to on a daily basis. What set the dog off on that particular day? It's breed. That's the point that the rational people here are making. Continue to be irrational and live in your fantasy world where 50-70% of all dogs in America are pit bulls and they are just silly little lovable lap dogs who get a bad rap and that all pit bulls which attack must have been abused fighting dogs.

http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local/Woman-Arrested-After-Pitbull-Mauls-Toddler--173389191.html

^ I'm sure she thought her dog was friendly.

http://www.momlogic.com/2009/04/baby_mauled_and_killed_by_pit.php

^ I'm sure the parents who owned many of the pit bulls in the above link thought that their children were safe with the family dog.

Perhaps you could convince me otherwise if you could provide ANY links or data to support your claims.

I don't have to provide links or data. The numbers are not there because no one can track such data. Simple logic would show you it is the truth though. If most pit bulls are killed rather than adopted, how do more keep ending up in shelters? There are many pit owners who never have issues with their dogs, even after they adopt the same dogs others could not handle. So why is that?? How can there be people who have pit bulls that are the exemplary example of everything a dog should be for a human?(check the testing they use, APBTs rank much higher than other breeds that people often think are human safe). On the flip side, how does the same breed attack and kill people randomly? The answer is they do not. All dogs give clues to an attack but sadly---as proven in this story---humans are often oblivious to such clues.

If most are killed rather than adopted, the overall population numbers should go down and we should be seeing less and less pit bulls UNLESS there is a societal problem with the breed and there is. Backyard breeders. I am not talking puppy mill status. I am talking bad people who breed to fight animals or people who breed the animals for protection dogs---something pit bulls are notoriously bad at unless they are beaten to hate humans(if you abuse a child, statistics would show such children often abuse others, no?). Well, abused dogs are no different. They will act out in ways that cannot be predicted. And fighting dogs given away to families looking for a pet? Yes, they are going to be aggressive and bite(it is what they were bred for)...if not turned into a shelter fast enough. Then most pit owners never register their dogs...I am talking the illegal owners who do bad things with their dogs. Why would they ever register them when the the police then have records to arrest them with?? Then there are the plain stupid people who own the dogs to be cool...because TV shows do that and make people want a breed they know nothing about. I could keep going and going but it does not matter.

I have a pit bull. Two neighbors directly across from me each have a pit bull or pit mix(one is a couple my age, the other is an elderly couple---we're all friendly). Another neighbor has a boxer(dog is kept outside in a shed/kennel combo). Yet three more neighbors have German Shepherds. Ironically, most people would think all seven dogs might be dangerous(and not get along but my dog has played with all the others except one) and if you want to really be honest, only that one---a German Shepherd---is scary because his/her owners are unaware that behavior he/she shows is very dangerous. The owner has a heck of a time controlling the dog on a leash. She seems afraid to be honest which would explain the dog's behavior but it is still wrong and may end up getting someone killed.

And no. I never said the only pit bulls that attack are abused fighting dogs. I said people who own fighting dogs greatly increase the number of pit bulls in the entire population by selling unsafe puppies and by encouraging a culture that leads others to beat their dogs, tie them out without shelter, water, food, etc. If I did to a child what many people do to their so-called pets in inner-cities, I would be locked away for life at best. The majority of those dogs still love humans though...which begs the question, where do the bad dogs come from and again, the answer is backyard breeders. Did you not read Amanda's story on bad breeding and the effects it can have on a dog? If humans have sex with family members, bad stuff happens to the offspring---be it mental or physical. If humans take steroids, bad stuff happens. Dogs are no different.

The bottom line is I will always be a pit bull advocate and I will always responsibly care for my dogs. Those are the only statistics I need. Does it mean I am oblivious? No. Any responsible owner always watches their dog for signs. I do ten times over because I don't want an untrained dog to approach mine, bite him, then mine get the blame if he is defending himself. To not do so is just stupid because dogs are animals and all have the capability to bite. And they will if put in the wrong situation. To add to that, anytime you approach a dog you never know where it has been, how it was raised, if it has been trained, etc. All those factors influence how a dog may react. If you ever watch the Dog Whisperer, even caring owners create seemingly vicious dogs because they have no idea how the dog world works. The humans have the best intentions but they do not catch the little head twitch when food comes out or the aggressive stance when meeting another dog. They then pull and hold the dog back only enforcing the aggressive behavior and making the dog more aggressive, not stopping it. That kind of mistake can be deadly with a pit bull, a rottie, a doberman, a German Shepherd, and so many other dogs...many of which get classified as pits but they are not pits at all...simply because the dogs are large. If you want true bite statistics, small dogs account for away more bites and it is caused by the same thing I just mentioned. Owners who think they are doing the right thing who are creating more or less a biting machine. You don't have to believe it but it is fact. If every dog owner were required to learn how dogs are in the dog world, bite statistics for all breeds would drop drastically...because aside from bad breeding and poor ownership, this is the other place bites come from. Great owners who are making mistakes without knowing it.

Lastly, then I have to get off this site. You believe what you believe and you are welcome to it. I will believe what I believe. My pit is gentle as can be but he was abused and has the scars to prove it. Certain sudden movements from me makes him flinch...so guess what? I don't make those sudden movements. Again, responsible ownership is what matters. You can point out all the stories of responsible owners who were bitten but there are so many factors left out. I know three stories that I witnessed in person where owners were bit and claimed to be innocent. In only one case was it a pit bull...but the point is, people who own dogs own dogs. The dogs are not humans. They do not live in our world and think as we think. They think like a dog and doing certain things around them will get you or them hurt. Some people do bad things to the dogs while others are oblivious to the signs they show before they attack. Learn to watch out for such things and you will never have a problem with a dog unless that dog is poorly bred or the dog becomes ill.

You are correct texas kat...though I would add she was clearly not the pack leader. If she had been, she would have been able to control the dogs. The male was the leader which was why the other dogs followed. They didn't snap. They didn't need to be put to sleep. This was poor training, plain and simple.

Thank you for adding that, Apache. I am in complete agreement. I'm sorry those dogs were put in a situation where they had no choice but to follow their instincts.

clearly! ive had rottweilers my entire life and establishing a pack order with the dog as a PUPPY is key!

Why do people have to act like a leader of a dog pack so they wont kill an innocent child? If they are that dangerous they should be outlawed. Why do most home owners' insurance companies drop your ass of you have a pit or rottie? You figure it out. They are potentially dangerous animals, its not the lack of training. They are just that way.

Oh yes I was afraid to leave my 3 small childen with my 3 black labs! No thats a lie. They are way more smarter than a stupid rottie or pit. They already know who is master. You don't have to act like the leader of the dogs to show them otherwise, that is just plain stupid.

TO ALL DOG OWNERS: at no point regardless of love felt and shown. regardless of cute tricks and humanistic qualities bestowed upon them. regardless of how they fill a void in your lives do these animals ever stop being animals. selective breeding and conditionig have made some more usefull animals but they are still animals.

I have owned quite a few labs Seewhat and they were not smarter than the pits I have met/owned. As for the other stuff you said, you are welcome to your opinions but dogs are pack animals. Watch wolves in the wild or wild dogs in Africa or Dingo in Australia. Pack animals follow a leader. Your idea of a master is a human idea and dogs only live in the dog world. When that kid was chased down, the owner probably figured in less words, "My dogs will never hurt my family because my family is my family." Dogs do not think like humans. They only think like dogs and when humans assume they are like us, that is when problems happen...just as Craig said above. Dog lover or not, I am glad some people get it.

texaskat,She was so arrogant to do what she did.She does not have the skills needed to control 3 rots and 2 small children.

Seewhat I mean188
Oh yes I was afraid to leave my 3 small childen with my 3 black labs! No thats a lie. They are way more smarter than a stupid rottie or pit. They already know who is master. You don't have to act like the leader of the dogs to show them otherwise, that is just plain stupid.

See what,know nothing. I am a retired veterinarian. Labs are goofy enough to run away from home first chance they get. They rarely respond to voice commands. i hate walking my dog and having her accosted by people's unleashed labs that are uncontrollable. They are no where nearly as intelligent and empathic as pits.

The best thing to do? Enact laws that only allow responsible dog owners to own a dog...any breed...thus, the dogs are always proper trained, handled the right way, etc. Bites like this would never happen. In other words, the dogs were put down thanks to human error. The aunt was not the pack leader. That is why the dogs attacked. Not because they were vicious dogs or anything of the sort. And as far as your dog bite statistics, many of them happen for the very same reasons so I'll stick with common sense and keep in mind how dogs work. That is what it takes to avoid dog bites.

n2fsufootball: The pit bull issue is just going to be unsolvable. The pro-pits defend them, and the anti-pits demonize them. I have a pit, she is amazing, and highly trained. She is 7 years old, never showed any signs of aggression. I know that she is an animal and I cannot predict the future or her behavior with certainty. But for the anti-pit people, here's a website for you

apacherose said;

The best thing to do? Enact laws that only allow responsible dog owners to own a dog...any breed...thus, the dogs are always proper trained, handled the right way, etc. Bites like this would never happen.

Putting laws in place is only part of the solution; enforcing them is something else.

In my municipality, people who own dogs--any dogs, though large-breed and pit-types are particularly focused on--have to have them licensed--an that has to be renewed annually. In order to get that license they have to live in a place with a specific amount of square footage, permission from the owner of the property if the dog's owner is a tenant; dog bite insurance. each dog MUST have collar with tags on them at all times while outside even if running around a yard; once off owner's property the dog MUST be on a leash, no exceptions. Now animal control will sometimes overlook a dog off leash while in a fenced dog par but technically it is not allowed.

If you have more than 2 you have to have a multi-pet permit and a property inspection to make sure the place where they live has enough square footage (there's a chart organized by size and breed detailing how much space is necessary) and if your two dogs are each a different gender and neither are fixed you HAVE to have a multi-pet permit and a breeding permit because we accept that it is inevitable--they are animals and they will obey biological imperatives. Voluntary spay/neuter of pit type dogs is STRONGLY encouraged and the animal shelter will do it free; there are various fines for violations of all of the above rules.

But a city with 600,00 people and 9 districts only has 9 officers and one chauffeur (the guy who goes out and picks up dead animals, whether roadkill or 'deaths under suspicious circumstances'.) The budget for this small force of 9 officers (of which they each have to have 2 days off a week, and no overtime is allowed) this department's budget is $700,000 and many of the AEOs (Animal Enforcement Officers) buy their own gear--boots, catch poles, flashlights, Dog-Off spray--because that budget is very very tight. The animal shelter tries to raise funds but it's never enough, and then the press gets on the shelter for its 'high mortality rate'--the number of animals euthanized--and people get the wrong impression and don't go to adopt or volunteer, which in turn drives up the mortality rate...it's a vicious cycle.

It's a system-wide failing that is contributing to incidents like these, and one can't point to ONE specific aspect as 'a solution'.

Putting laws in place is only part of the solution; enforcing them is something else.

Yes, I know. In my area, we no longer have an Animal Control. If there is a problem with an animal, the police are to be called. I didn't really hit on that because I figured it was a given...enacting laws without enforcement will do nothing. Good points nonetheless.

Any information you get from the dogsbite website should be taken with a grain of salt. If you read who they are and what they are about (to quote their website): "DogsBite.org is a public education website about dangerous dogs -- primarily pit bull type dogs." and "DogsBite.org advocates breed-specific laws to correct the pit bull problem." They consider pitbulls to be four different breeds and the founder was a victim of a dog bite. The organization is anti-pitbull type dog and advocates for the removal of all pitbull type dogs. The organization is biased and not neutral. This is considered non-credible information.

Agreed jfl1971. I can assure you pit bulls account for more than 5% of the dog population but saying so does not help their agenda so they would never say that.

@ApacheRosePea00, For the love of God just give up! you are not going to change anyone's mind. Those dogs got what they deserved. If a human would have done something like that, the would be dead too.

http://media.cleveland.com/metro/other/Dog%20attack%20stats%20%2010-15-09.pdf

This report was not compiled by a group with an anti pit/rott agenda. These are compiled statistics covering 18 years of serious dog attacks from all breeds. You can choose to ignore the numbers if you like but that won't change them. Pits (American Staffordshire Bull Terrier) alone account for more than half of all attacks by all breeds combined resulting in bodily harm. During that time there were 1508 attacks by pits resulting in bodily harm, 452 by rotts and no other breed was more than 81 (almost all others were 1 to 50 with 80% of all breeds below 10 incidents each). The labrador is the most popular breed in the U.S. but accounted for only 35 attacks resulting in bodily harm.

From the AKC website:

BREED MATTERS

Every dog has a distinct personality based on its breed. With 175 AKC-recognized breeds to choose from, doing your research is essential to finding the right breed for your lifestyle and a lifetime of happiness!

The AKC is not biased. Personality is based on breed. Pits and rotts, based on anecdotal and statistical sources, indicates that there is a much higher propensity for violence against humans by these breeds.

Ron B said:

Pits (American Staffordshire Bull Terrier) alone account for more than half of all attacks by all breeds combined resulting in bodily harm.

You do know that's three separate breeds you've just named in this sentence, right?

'Pits'--American Pit Bull Terrier, or APBT--40 pounds, medium-sized dog.

American Staffordshire--American Staffordshire Terrier, the AKC only recognizes AmStaffs, they do not count the APBT in their breed list since the APBT is a hybrid of multiple purebred dogs. AmStaffs are medium sized dogs weighing up to 45-50 pounds.

Bull Terrier--separate breed too. Remember Spuds McKenzie? He's a Bull Terrier and they have a VERY distinctive face shape that should eliminate being called a 'Pit Bull'. Also, Bull Terriers are barely two feet tall at the shoulder and weigh between 35 and 40 pounds.

The pit-type dog that I see most often in a bite case is a Lab/bulldog mix. If the dog is more than 45 pounds usually we see something else in that mix--American Bulldogs, Presa Canarios, and Cane Corsos have the same general body shape but are much larger and heavier. Many of those labeled as a 'Pit Bull' actually don't have any APBT in them at all.

Lordylo...I didn't come here to convince anyone of anything and I certainly would not advocate for dogs to live that attacked humans without reason. However, the dogs from this story did nothing of the sort. This attacked happened because a human was negligent. If she wanted to kill her dogs, fine. But she should still be held accountable for her actions. As you said, if a human would have done it, they would be dead too...that is just it. A human did do it.

And Ron...the statistics are biased most certainly because the same statistics are shared on dogbites.org and that is clearly a site with an agenda. No credible information can come from such a site. By your own words, you know not of which you speak. The AKC is not biased? The American Staffordshire Bull Terrier is recognized by the AKC. The American Pit Bull Terrier is essentially the same dog but the AKC does not recognize the APBT. Funny when you consider that some dogs are dual registered in the AKC and the UKC(they recognize the APBT)...so the AKC is a crock of crap to me. It is merely a club for prudish types to show off really expensive dogs.

As far as your last statement that rotties and pits are more apt to attack humans...if you showed how many of those dogs were beaten and abused...or not spayed/neutered...and not owned by law-abiding citizens...then I might listen because then you might be telling the truth. Likewise, 35 attacks for the most popular breed? Total lies. Pit bulls far out number labs now, even if your "honest" statistics say otherwise.

I have said it before but thank you Amanda! :)

http://www.wsoctv.com/news/news/local/7-pit-bulls-put-down-after-killing-owner/nSW3n/

http://www.opposingviews.com/i/society/animal-rights/pit-bull-owner-debra-renee-roberts-violently-killed-her-2-dogs

Roberts' friend, Marla Glover, says that Debra Renee Roberts loved all animals and has been known to adopt strays. She told KTHV.com that Roberts really loved Zeus and that the big Pit Bull would crawl up in her lap and he was real playful. Glover guessed that Zeus weighed more than a hundred pounds

Deputies say the woman has been bitten before by the same dogs. However, her husband said she went to the hospital and did not file a report with animal control, Woods Jr., continued.

http://jacksonville.com/tu-online/stories/100307/met_204816739.shtml

"They lived in the house with them. They would lay up on the couch with them," he said.

Clay County's director of animal control, Connie Goon, said in her 18 years in the post there have been just two such fatalities and in each case, a pit bull terrier killed its owner.

Authorities said there were no signs that the dogs were abused or had been used for fighting. No dogfighting implements or training devices were found at the home, and the dogs did not have marks that they had been fighters.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/pet-pit-bull-kills-pregnant-woman-pacifica-california/story?id=14289961

Neighbors told ABC News affiliate KGO that the dogs appeared normal. The Napora's had a "Beware of the Dog" sign on their home.

Police said that they had received no complaints about the dogs in the past.

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/05/09/11619081-santa-fe-man-agrees-to-euthanize-pet-dog-after-it-mauls-his-father?lite

^ He was probably a 74 year old dog fighting drug dealer, right?

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/43409897/ns/us_news-life/t/pit-bull-mauls-owner-death-home-police-say/

Neighbors say pit bull never showed signs of aggression prior to fatal attack. WRC's Jane Watrel reports.

The list goes on and on. These were the owners who were killd by their pit bulls. I am not even going to bother posting the multitude of links to pit bulls killing strangers.

Well said. Hell, I have 2 miniature schnauzers that don't weigh 40 lbs combined, are as sweet and loving as can be, but let a small child run in front of them or act real animated...those instincts kick in and, although no attack ensues, they become more aggressive than I'm comfortable with. Same thing when we go out on walks...a squirrel crosses our path and I am holding those leashes tight!

Learn about the breed before you get it, folks. And realize that a dog is an animal...no matter how cute, loving, etc. they are.

I have had 4 cats, small animals but they hunt, we play string, but you move your feet under a blanket and they will attack the movement, de-clawed in front but they will grab and use their back claws and teeth, lot of scratches. Animals are animals, they will hunt to survive. They would do the same thing around a baby in a crib, I have no dought.

I love the comments in this segment because it shows some people still use their intelligence so thank you for that. However, it was not so much the breed or the fact that the dogs are animals---we're animals too---as it was poor training. The owner was not the leader of the pack. Had she been, she could have easily controlled all three dogs. Dogs without a human pack leader will end up causing all kinds of issues, some as minor as barking at the mailman through the window, others as serious as what happened to these poor children. That includes all dogs. A dog owner who does not assume the role of leader is asking for trouble and sadly, these dogs had to be put down because of human error. There is a dog like this where I live...he barks at anything that moves and the owner can barely control him/her on a leash. My dog knows he/she exists but I try to keep everyone inside---including my nieces---when that dog goes by because one day someone is going to be attacked and that dog will be killed on the spot.

It is bred...not bread. And rotties are not a dangerous breed. They are a strong breed and need proper leadership---something these rotties clearly did not have. Dogs work in packs...and their human was not the pack leader, plain and simple. If she was, those kids would have been safe from all other dogs, humans, and aliens alike. But she was not the leader...so the male took that role and the other dogs followed him. That is how it always works---if you own a dog, you need to be the alpha dog. If you are, your dog will protect you and listen to whatever you want. If you are not, your dog will have behavior issues somewhere. Some might be cute and funny, but eventually the cute problems will become serious like this story shows. Overall, these dogs were not dangerous nor did they need to be put down. Someone simply forgot dogs work in packs and if you are not the alpha, one of them will assume that role. When that happens, they will do as they want...not as you want them to do.

I know because I own a supposedly dangerous breed. He has never once approached a child or animal in a way that would make me uneasy. Why not? Not only am I constantly watching for signs of trouble---this owner created trouble by letting a child run ahead of a dog like prey---but I am the alpha as I stated above. He knows what I expect of him and respecting all other humans is part of that deal. Dogs are the same way. The only exception is if there is an aggressive dog like my neighbor's. Regardless, I have owned a pit bull for over five years. He has been around countless small children and animals. Nothing bad has ever happened because I am a responsible owner and a responsible human. It has nothing to do with the breed. People who think so are very ignorant in the ways dogs work. The same can be said for those who own dogs who end up attacking people. They have no idea how to responsibly own a dog or their dog would never hurt a human.

Anyone who would describe small children as "prey" such as you have above shouldn't be allowed to own a dog. the idea that you actually own one of these types of breeds and refer to small children as "prey" is bone chilling in itself. I sincerely hope you never find yourself in this sort of situation, however with your attitude about how you know what your dog thinks (you don't) and how you know it will comply with your wishes (it won't) you're living in wonderland.

Clueless and scary is what dog owners, regardless of breed are if they think there dog is anything but a loaded gun waiting to go off. the only difference is what caliber is your dog?

I referred to children as prey because I know the dog world...and it is how it works. Anything that is smaller than a dog and running away from said dog will be seen as prey. Anyone who does not recognize that is the wrong one but thanks for your moronic insight.

I never said I pretend to know what my dog knows. I said I know how the dog world works and it is not like our world. Watch the Dog Whisperer. I work by the same principles he does...no touch, no talk, no eye contact. I also am the alpha in my dog pack using calm assertive energy. Not dominance. Not scare tactics. So yes, I know how my dog will respond because I know how his world works. That is just being a responsible owner but I am sorry you seem to believe otherwise. After all, I've owned my dog for over five years and he has never so much as sneezed at another human or dog. He is afraid of kittens...and yes, he has gone after other animals while in a prey drive. The skunk taught him that maybe that was a bad idea though.

It's like that line in the movie True Grit, "he was my friend, he never did me any harm till he kilt me". The big dog weighed 180 pounds. That's more than a lot of people. How do you control a dog that big when it's going for something, the answer is you don't, that woman is lucky that any of them lived.

If a dog is too stupid to not be able to tell the difference between a human and a small animal they need to be put down. I thought they had a good sense of smell? Rotties are just plain stupid. I had a pure breed rottie, dumbest animal I ever saw in my life. The dog would @!$%# right in front of its house and then step in it and try to jump all over you. It was a huge pen, she was never tied up, once. We had her fixed so she couldn't have anymore stupid dogs.

Like owner, like dog

Yes they can...because a responsible owner is the leader of his or her pack(dogs are pack animals and it drives their entire world). That was what went wrong here. The owner was not the leader...the male took that role because the owner did not. The breed of dog has nothing to do with it.

ApacheRose, you should just stop, you're not making any sene and you have no clue what you're talking about. Dogs do NOT need to be in a pack to attack.

correct

I never said they had to be in a pack to attack. I said if you own a dog you have to be the leader. If you are not, the dog will assume a leadership role and do whatever it wants no matter what you do or say...including attacking other humans. Learn to read. I make perfect sense and my methods are proven with professional dog handlers and personal experiences. What about yours?

oh shut up ApacheRose and go have sex with your dogs if you love them that much.. pitbulls are dumb animals, they should all be killed and outlawed

I brought intelligence to a conversation so I am told to go have sex with my dogs? You just proved pit bulls are way smarter than you.

I agree.....someone needs to proofread their story before they publish it!

I like your rule but the dogs only followed their instinct in chasing down prey. Should it have happened? No. The owner clearly was not the leader of the pack. Had she been, the dogs never would have done such a thing.

Dear ApacheRose, children are not prey, if your dog percieves them as such your dog DOES need to be put down.

scpeer-

Why do you hate dogs? You clearly have had a bad experience and I am sorry, but ApacheRose is correct, mostly at least. Dogs do not necessarily have to be in a pack to attack, but they are more prone to attack in a pack. And he/she is not referring to kids as prey, he/she is simply stating that is how the dog perceived the situation (cause you know, dogs are not human and see the world according to a dog, they do not know the difference).

I like your comment about every dog being a time bomb, the owner never knows what it will do, blah, blah, blah. I train a lot with my dogs, hours weekly in multiple difference disciplines. To some extent, if you are in tune with your dog and the "leader" (that's right, being the pack leader is VERY important), you can, for the most part, predict how your dog will act in different situations. I am not saying that they don't suprise you sometimes, but when you are your dog's leader, and you take the time to train, you know what situations you should and shouldn't put your dog in. It is not fair to the dog to put them in a situation they are not comfortable with, or where they will act like a dog, and then blame them when something happens. I know how my male acts around strangers, so I protect him from that. My female goes nuts around my horses (wants to herd), so I keep her away.

But wait, you are right! My dog IS a ticking time bomb, just waiting to lick you, and your kids, to death! Watch out, those kisses can be deadly!

Again, I never said dogs had to be in a pack to attack. Somewhere along the line, you assumed that was what I said. All I said and will say until the day I die is...dogs are pack animals. When you own one and you lack the intelligence to be the leader of your pack of humans and dogs, you will have behavior issues within your pack. It might be a cute behavior issue where no one gets hurt. It also might be a behavior issue that is cute at first but ends up getting someone bitten or worse. That is a fact. All behavior issues with dogs, barring a developmental problem within a dog, are human related. As liv2barlrac stated, my prey statements were merely how dogs see the world. Dogs are not humans. They only see the world as a dog and you cannot change that. That is why all behavior issues are human related. In the wild, if a dog does not act accordingly, the leader of the pack will take action each and every time. In the human world, this is not the case. Many dog owners allow their dogs to do things that lead to bad behaviors. Again, the dog does not know better. He lives in the dog world and lives by dog rules while many owners see their dogs in a "human" light. Example.

Small dogs often get carried everywhere. Because of their small size, owners cuddle them and see them as fragile. They are overprotective and sometimes even afraid to discipline the dogs. If you carry the dog everywhere and never let it down, it will be afraid of the rest of world and attack anything that comes near it, including friendly people who just think it is cute. Likewise, if you never discipline it, you end up with a needy, seemingly unpredictable dog who cuddles with you but will bite at any other person that comes near it. All of it caused by the human unknowingly.

The same happened here. This poor woman was not the leader of her dogs. The male clearly was because he initiated the incident and the females followed. A responsible owner, regardless of breed, never would have had toddlers on a walk with three large dogs...especially ones that were not completely under her control. Another example. You keep making disparaging comments toward me like I do not know what I am talking about...but if my hand goes anywhere near my dog's mouth, he doesn't keep biting. He immediately sees it is my hand and tries to move away from me. Why? Because again, I am the alpha. In the dog world, biting me would be a challenge and result in serious discipline. Some people encourage nipping by not correcting it as a puppy. Before you know it, you have a full grown dog who bites really hard during what use to be a game.

I never claimed to be perfect or know my dog. I said I know dogs according to the dog world which is the only world they know. They live in the moment, not the past...the only time a dog lives in the past(like when people say, "My dog was attacked by another dog and they are scared of dogs now"...that feeling is carried by the human and the dog can sense this. Thus, it is afraid because its master is afraid. That is the only reason there is fear. The same happens if a dog owner is afraid their pet will bite someone. The dog doesn't know why the owner is afraid. It just senses the fear and thus may become tense/fearful or feel the need to protect its fearful owner.

Again, I never claimed to know my dog. People who become complacent like that are the reasons bites happen. I know how dogs are and can comfortable predict how any dog will react based on what I see, feel, hear, etc. The only kind of dog that is unpredictable is an unstable dog. But the dogs in this story and the majority of dogs I have met in my life---including the ten or more I have owned---have all been very stable. If they were not, I would not have them around me or my family or any of my other dogs...that again is just being a responsible owner.

Too bad the dumb animal couldn't tell the difference between a human (its master, the one that feed and shelters it) and a small animal. This is the stupidest crap I've heard in about a week.

Seewhat...

I am really sorry to stoop to your level but I have to say this. Dogs were at one time wild animals. They killed prey to eat and survive. That instinct is still part of all dogs alive today. In some breeds, it is the instinct is stronger than others due to humans choosing characteristics they wanted. If you are not following what I am saying, every time you follow one of my posts saying that if the animal is that supid...you are referring to animals we humans created so you are effectively calling us all stupid. If you do not want to learn dog psychology or you want to keep refusing that the natural instincts of an animal still exist, have fun with that...but you really should get a membership to your local library and learn something about dogs. That is if you really want people to listen to you and believe you are knowledgeable.

I also carry a defensive system: a .38 revolver in my pocket! Any dog that even so much as looks at me wrong is a dead dog!

Steve, let's hope that you really don't mean the "So much as looks at me wrong" part. Many responsible gun owners and CCW holders know that you never brandish your arm unless there is an immediate threat to life or limb. A .38 with HPs or WCs is a solid choice.

I own a pit bull and I am all for anyone carrying their idea of a defensive system...but please never hurt an animal because it looks at you wrong. That makes no sense because by looking the dog in the eye, you may cause an attack that otherwise would not happen(if you pass by a home and the dog is in his yard, he is defending his space so why would you initiate a conflict by looking at him in the eye?). I already see people cross to the other side of the street when I am coming because they believe the hype about pit bulls. I am responsible owner and my dog is well adjusted. What I mean by that is he doesn't care to approach people unless they want to be approached. He also doesn't over react to other dogs or do anything I see many dog owners struggle with so don't harm a dog unless you are honestly being attacked. I had two dogs come to me as a kid. I thought they were going to hurt me and I was frozen with fear. Knowing what I know about dogs now, they were merely checking me out and moved to defend me when my parents came to get them away from me. Not all dogs are evil.

You are annoying. You are NOT convincing me that Rotties and Pits shouldn't be banned. My daughter raised a Pit from a 6 week old pup. It had a loving home and was trained to obey. This creature was so unpredictable in its aggression that she had to give it to the pound. It broke her heart, but the dog was a ticking time bomb. People that own these types of dogs are akin to the nuts that own lions and tigers as pets. Head issues.

Okay. You are welcome to your opinion but I am confident in my knowledge. I never tried to convince you of anything. The mere fact that you stated that your daughter owned a pit but had to give it away shows it was not a well-balanced dog or trained very well...or she never would have had to give it away. That is the kind of dog that is a ticking time bomb...and maybe it was not your daughter's fault. Maybe it was bad breeding, maybe it was a neurological problem with the dog. But it sounds like it was a behavior issue because of bad training---or at least a lack of being the pack leader. Regardless, it doesn't matter what the breed was in your situation. It easily could have been any breed but if you want to blame rotties and pit bulls and so on, be my guest. I own one and I am a responsible owner. That does not affect you so I can't be annoying. lol.

I had 2 pit/mixed puppies from the same litter that I had rescued from sure death. They were both females. The larger of the two was always trying to strangle the smaller one. She would grab on to the other ones collar, and just fall to the ground and turn, until her eyes glazed over. There was something truly evil about that dog. Smart, but no emotion, she never wagged her tail as a puppy or showed she was happy to eat, nothing. The little one was the happiest thing you ever saw. strange. I didn't have to act like I was the "leader" of them, they knew their place. They were dogs and I am the human.

Good for you.

Delainey said:

My daughter raised a Pit from a 6 week old pup. It had a loving home and was trained to obey. This creature was so unpredictable in its aggression that she had to give it to the pound.

Before I get started, first let me say good for your daughter. Recognizing the dog is unstable and giving it up for euthanasia indicates a good owner.

First problem--six week old pup. Dogs should not be separated from the parent before 8 weeks, they still need guidance and assistance and proper socialization from the parent--without that they can develop what in human children would be termed 'attachment disorder'--inadequate nurturing at a young age results in mental and emotional problems later, I recommend you take a look at that. It happens a LOT in adopted children. (Now, if the mother rejected the pups that's different but that usually happens earlier and the baby will have to be bottle-fed--and will gain human socialization and exposure thereby.)

Second problem: Where did you get the dog?

Licensed breeder who had both parents for a long time and knew what the parents' temperaments were and chose them for displaying exemplary qualities?

A pet shop where the puppy likely came from a puppy mill wherethe father could have also been the grandfather or the great-grandfather?

An online or classified ad saying Puppies for sale? If you did get the puppy at six weeks old then you didn't get it from a licensed breeder--every licensed, registered, responsible breeder knows you do not separate puppies from parents until 8 weeks. The first four or five weeks the mother dog is geared toward providing nourishment for the puppy--the last two to three weeks the mother is teraching the puppy what kind of behavior is expected of it; she's teaching it how to be a dog, and the puppy learns a lot about how to behave toward humans those last few weeks simply by watching Mom's behavior around humans. Those last few weeks are crucial--if that is not available there should be an older dog in the home that IS well-socialized and can show the younger dog how to behave. without that guidance the young puppy has no 'How To Deal With Humans' manual.

A cage sitting by the road with a sign saying 'Puppyes 4 sale $100'? Backyard breeder or fight dog breeder selling his culls. You NEVER know what you're going to get with those and it's best to stay away from those altogether. These dogs almost always have a higher-than normal aggression index, an enlarged adrenal gland and greater possibility for mental instability due to one or both parents being given injections of steroids to increase their aggression and body mass--in humans it's called 'Roid Rage'.

I didn't go into so much detail but Amanda's post shows why I responded to Delainey in the manner that I did. While it was a great thing to give the dog up, to place blame on a breed because you know no better is not how one gets a gold star. Knowledge is power and the people who use it---like Amanda---clearly know what they are talking about.

So why couldn't the meter man read the meter? Because they would attack him? BTW, who really gives a sh!t about those three dogs.

The meter man can't read my meter either, you ass, unless I put my dogs up.

They are my companions and my protection. I live in the woods and if they were the "pals" and "buddies" of every tramp who thought they could come and steal from the single old lady who lives alone I would probably be dead by now.

There is nothing at all wrong with a dog who protects its human friend. What is wrong is a human who does not train the dog friend properly and who does not protect children from the natural instincts of the dog... ANY dog.

I also have a horse that is extremely gentle, and I would not turn a child lose on it, either. Training should never be thought to trump instinct.

Amen.

You are absolutely correct!! I was a divorced mom with teenage girls and I never had to worry about them.

Screminmimi bottom-lined it right there: "Training should never be thought to trump instinct."

rubberdouchey76 should just keep out of dog talk he must still be pissed he was never allowed a dog therefor hates all dogs. Would love to let my rotty have a little play session with you. screminmimi said it best.

MOs-Well said!

When I was a kid my brother had a rottie. He tried to make him mean and had to move somewhere he couldn't keep him. He ended up with us and that dog was so great (not mean AT ALL, maybe a little slow). I literally could ride him (he was HUGE and I was small for my age). The only thing he didn't like was if you smelled like alcohol (my brother had some pretty wild parties). When my brother finally took him back and moved across town from us (we lived in Tampa at the time), my Mom went to leave for work one morning and there he was, on our front steps. He found his way all the way across town to get back to us. That's loyalty!

Rotties were not bread to kill like someone posted on here. They were bred as working dogs, most people are suprised to hear they are herding dogs.

I have two border collies now, and my male will not let strange men in the house or backyard (loves women, I joke he is a lady's man!). That doesn't mean he would kill a child, or that he is dangerous, just protective and I like it that way. This woman was obviously not in control of these dogs, when that child took off running, the dog was likely trying to herd and subdue her. So sad.

I currently own a german rotty and she is one of the sweetest dogs I know. I have own another rotty about 15yrs ago as well as 2 pitbulls. All of my dogs had great temperment and are or were very loving dogs. Rotties are very playful and given their size (180lb male, thats freakin' huge) should not be playing around with such little kids to begin with, let alone little ones that dont live on the premises because males of any dog breed can be territorial. My rotty is well trained with both verbal and hand commands and knows not to bite or chew on anything besides food or her own chew toys. My kids are 12 and 9 and my current rotty is a female, which all my dogs have been, and she is 3 at 100lbs, more then both of my kids combined. They all play great together. I am sure that she could do damage but she is treated with love and affection and has never even grawled or bit at anyone. She spends time outside and some of the neighbors stop by to say hello and even play with her. When selecting a breed of dog like rotties and pits, you have to observe the parents and see what type of temperment that they display before selecting a "family" dog.

Just because a dog reacts to an unknown person in the yard does not mean it is somehow a vicious dog. It just means he is protecting his space and that is perfectly normal. The problem starts when an owner thinks the dog is harmless and refuses to recognize the signs of an impending problem. That is when people get bit.

Well said. Thank you.

"It has also been shown that breed bans don't protect anyone. Broader dangerous dog laws that don't single out breeds are far more effective. They also don't waste tax payer money while Animal Control Officers chase down every 'my neighbor has a pit bull' call."

The Pit Bull Ban in Miami-Dade, Florida has protected the people of that area from pit bulls since 1989. In fact, it has done such a great job of protecting citizens from pit bulls that last August, Miami-Dade voters went to the poll and voted to keep the ban in place by a more than two-thirds majority. Too bad Rottweilers, Chows, Presna Canarios, Mastiffs, Cane Corsos and other dangerous breeds aren't also banned!

Well said betel. Just to add a small thought to what you said...many pit type dogs are put down because some shelters are kill shelters. They will not adopt out pit bulls or anything that resembles a pit. This problem is compounded in inner-cities where backyard breeding is common and dogs are given to any Joe off the street. Dog fighting, gangs, tough guys using the dogs for protection, etc. The point being...the numbers on such sites are definitely skewed to make the problem seem bigger than it is. Pit bulls account for so many bites because the types of people that own pits in some areas are not stand up people. They tie their dogs out without food and water for days at a time. The dogs are beaten and abused, never exercised or socialized, etc. Most of these dogs still love humans, but there are a few that cannot be saved and those are the ones that always end up biting people.

Steve...sweet name as my name is Steve as well...however, your own post proves that breed bans do not work. Sure, you may no longer have a pit problem but you have problems with other breeds. The statistics prove the same. The bad people who own those dogs---the same ones that cause the majority of the dog bites---they just move onto other breeds and always will. Even if you ban all the typical "aggressive" dogs, you can make any breed evil so it will never stop. You are welcome to your opinions---and some of them I agree with you on(I am a responsible owner who watches every action I make with my dog---I hate the kinds of people that create dogs that bite others)---but it doesn't mean that responsible owners like myself should have to give up a breed that clearly is not the issue.

The breeders going for the larger dogs are the breeders likely doing illegal activities with their dogs. I own a pit bull and more than one person has asked why he is small. He is not small...he is the right size for the breed, where as the dogs those people were comparing him to are certainly larger than they should be...either do to selective breeding or supplemental steroids. Totally agree though. A negligent owner should always be held responsible regardless of breed. Something is truly wrong in this world if I have a Golden Retriever who bites someone, yet no one raises a stink...but if I have an "aggressive" breed, he is a killer if he defends himself from another dog who attacked him first.

Apache - you are correct. Why doesn't anyone bring up the baby killed by the cocker spaniel the other day or the baby that was killed by the pomeranian?

"Aggressive" breed discrimination. Many people will probably disagree with that but I have seen it first hand. When I was about to adopt my pit, I read all the stories. I read a story about an owner that was fighting to keep his/her pits after a neighbor's dog ran into their yard and they killed it. The neighbor's dog was clearly running loose and in the wrong, while the pits were where they should have been not bothering anyone.

I also personally watched a small child get bitten by a small breed---I practically predicted it to another party before it happened but it was not my place to say anything. The owners were complacent. They knew the dog didn't always handle new people well and they had a house full of people that day. The kid was playing with the dog under the kitchen table with no adults watching. He reached for the dog's toy and the dog made a mess of the kid's face, narrowly missing his eye with a nasty cut. As the parents of the kid were taking him out the door to the hospital, the owners were pleading not to report it...after being so irresponsible. As far as I know, they kept the dog without reprimand but that dog had every intention of biting that kid and it was not the dog's fault. If my dog hurt someone much less severely---say he knocked them down with his strength and the bruised badly, he would likely pay with his life...all because he is a pit bull breed.

I'm not complaining. I chose to adopt a pit bull and I am happy to be a responsible owner. But if all dog owners were held to the standard I am, only responsible dog owners would ever own dogs.

How many times have I heard that stupid comment? Also I have heard: My dog is so sweet, he's never done any like this before, and it's the owners, not the breed, there's no such thing as a bad dog. It's all crap. How do you think the people who spout this stuff feel when their "babysitter" dog kills their baby? Or grandma?

Those people who have lost a family member due to a family pet probably feel horrible...and I am sorry for their loss...however, 99.9% of the time, dogs give cues before they attack. And untrained, unsociable dogs will always attack when a trained, balanced dog never will. How do I know? Simple pack dynamics. In other words, dogs in a balanced pack know their place and know what is expected of them. Sure, they may act out from time to time but the last thing they are going to do---if they are treated well---is attack a member of the pack. That doesn't happen with wild dogs or wolves ever...alphas get challenged from time to time yes...but the members of the pack need one another to survive. That is how a balanced dog sees his human pack members as well...without them, he dies so why would he hurt them? The only answer is there was no established pack and the dog took the alpha role.

"Dogs are not people. No matter how much you worship your dog, it is not human and does not see the world like people do. There is no "logic" to a dog. It is not your furry little child. It is an animal, and will always see the world around it as a dog sees it, never will it see the world as you see it. Most dog owners are not smart enough to understand this."

QFT, very well said.

Funny. My posts above said the very same thing...only I am a dog owner...and scpeer hated what I said. The only thing I would disagree with is that there is very much logic to a dog and every one of his actions---he only knows how to be a dog. But many humans fail to understand the logic because they see their dogs as humans and that is where problems arise like the one in this story. She never considered that her dogs would act on their natural instincts because she assumed they would see her family members as she does. Well, in a balanced pack with a calm assertive human leader, that is what happens when you have dogs. The dogs will protect the kids from anything and everything because the kids are part of the pack.

I have owned dogs all my life. Even seen one chained to a house all its life and it still protected me even though by my standards as an adult, it was not treated very well. That is what happens when you are 2 and your parents never took the time to house train the dog. I digress. The point is...

I agree with you on leash laws and prey drive. There is no question that is what happened, however, there are pit bulls and rotties(German Shepherds, dobermans, Presas, etc) that know the difference between a rabbit and a child. And it has nothing to do with breeding or certain breeds. A jack russell is a hunter and I have never seen one chase down a child. Likewise, my dog loves to chase rabbits if he sees them run---but he has never chased down a child and if he ever did, I would kill him with my bare hands. Not trying to be gross...just being honest. I love my dog but I will not ever allow behavior that hurts someone else or other animals. It is part of being responsible to me. Back to my point above...it has nothing to do with the breed. If it did, many more people would be bitten by pit bulls because a lot more people own them than the statistics can show.

It all has to do with training, socialization, and being in control of your animal. I do not mean just physically either. I also mean from a mental aspect. If I fear my dog is going to bite someone, he will. He can sense my fear. He cannot tell what I am afraid of, all he knows is that I am afraid anytime a person approaches so he may bite someone while trying to protect me...that all comes down to training and understanding dogs. Never breed. Bad breeding---inbreeding or breeding for the wrong characteristics(some pits are bred for larger than normal adrenal glands, thus leading to large and overly aggressive dogs, many of which are passed off to the public as pets when they are not safe to own by the inexperienced person) can be a problem but the main reasons many dogs bite are thanks to human error. After all, dogs always give cues no matter how subtle.

Apachee, have you done anything today besides comment on this story? After your first few posts, I stopped reading because you were saying the same thing over and over.

Maybe you know exactly how to treat your dogs. But, if it is that complicated to keep one of these dogs and most people either don't know how to keep them properly or do not have the time to do everything correctly, then maybe it is time to agree that most people should not own one. (Or virtually no one should own one.) I keep hearing "it's the owner, not the dog". Most people think "it's the owner, not the dog" refers to dogs being treated badly, beat or neglected, not a lack of constantly reminding the dog who is alpha. If keeping one of these dogs requires special knowledge, training, and a lot of effort, then who is actually qualified to own one?

And if it is bad breeding, where does "it's the owner, not the dog" fit in? Isn't it the dog in that case?

Lovely said:

And if it is bad breeding, where does "it's the owner, not the dog" fit in? Isn't it the dog in that case?

And who allowed the dog with bad genetics to breed when the dog could have been fixed or euthanized? Isn't it the owner of the parents in that case?

Or who subjected Dad Dog and Mom Dog to steroid injections to make them more aggressive, bred them, decided the puppy wasn't aggressive enou to fight and sold the 'culled' puppy to an unsuspecting family? (kind of like how a woman who smokes or drinks or takes drugs during a pregnancy can pass on health problems to the baby) Isn't it the owner in that case?

and you're clearly an uneducated moron, can we eradicate your kind, too?