Tramire's father, Timothy Miller, said he does not believe his son was targeted, but does not feel safe in his neighborhood.

Timmy is unsure of whether his 16 month old was targeted? How young do they recruit for gang members?

It took the shooting of his child to make him feel unsafe in his neighbourhood? Something tells me that this isn't the first shooting or other sign of gang violence in the area. Some people are a little slow on the uptick.

You're playing my song Marty. These gangs are nationwide enterprises and should be treated as such. These young black and Latino punks have brains of mush and are so gullible to acting out these destructive roles that the ultimate accountability-jail for life in a Federal prison-is the only way for us to eradicate them and change the minds of young black and Latino men in the future. You'll notice I didn't say white. That's because there is NOT a rash of white crime in our country-OR in the world of gangs. Why is that? We, that meaning all of us, have tolerated enough.

You're absolutely right Joe NY. The white gangs are called Supremacists and do as much or more damage to this country!! All of them are terrorists and should be treated as such.

Black gangs have killed more blacks than the KKK. I don't know where you fantasy fliers get your information. I have no problem with lining the white gangs up against the wall and executing them all. But...you'll never notice the difference in YOUR neighborhood.

These comments suggest a major impediment to dealing with gangs : the need to tread lightly, even the face of the truth, because the race card is instantly played.

Consider the violence in just one city, Chicago, which is frequently spotlighted. On any given weekend, how many whites are the victims of drive-by shootings? Virtually none despite the presence of gangs in neighborhoods like Pilsen and Little Village.

However, if Mayor Emanuel declared all out war on gangs, he would be pilloried as a racist.

Well, no anti-NRA guys out yet.

The guy mentions that he thinks his son was "not" targeted. Obviously however, some of these gang members have an initiation where they have to commit a gun crime to get in with a gang.

They'll just drive by any crowd and take a few shots through the crowd thinking they're so cool. If their parents spent more time with them teaching them the right thing, you'd hear less of these situations. These kids have too much time on their hands.

Poor kid. I'm surprised for an infant at how fast he was out of the hospital after taking a bullet to the abdomen. Tough kid man...

jkatze,

Not too sure about that. Why a racist? You would think that he'd be labeled as "Having enough of this crap with these gangs" kind of guy no matter what color they are.

A couple of posters here are onto a new idea. Relocate these gangs to their own society and let them survive or die by their own hands. Let them feed, cloth and govern themselves on a remote island with no means of escape. They can care for or kill themselves without innocent victims and civil society will be rid of these animals forever.

I totally agree with removing gangbangers from our society permanently. All gangbangers pose a threat to society at large. Get rid of them all. I can only imagine how nice it would be not to have to look over my shoulder while out in public.

Joe NY We had gangs of other minorities in the past, Irish, Italian, even Dutch, it seems gangs emerge withing minorities and poor people. Blacks got out of segregation in the late 60's and Latinos are relative newcomers, also for your enlightenment there are many Asian gangs as the result of Asian minorities arriving to our country. I don't think it has anything to do with Whites being morally superior, in the White people group, the main criminal actions are related to murdering their own families or coworkers, kidnap, rape and murdering little kids or becoming serial killers.

eric pickles is extreme, but he started off on the right foot. You want crime stopped but also want fewer taxes that resulted in major cut backs on the number of police officers on a force. Since all you care about is getting by on the cheap, guess what the main function of the police is today - writing you tickets.

Get real people - this extreme fantasy land you live in of TV crime fighters...well, you figure it out.

Creek Dog; I highly doubt the NRA backs gang members owning guns - but I could be wrong.

Evacuate one of the slums in NY or Chicago or any major city, and round up all the gang bangers and druggies (regardless of race/nationality/gender) and drop them in. Give them all the drugs and ammo they want.

The one who walks out still standing when it's over, wins.

Amen, Marty! I have been saying that for years. They are just terrorists and should fall under the Homeland Security jurisdiction. The prisons are full of these vile , rabid animals who are to evil to let live. Yet, there are bleeding hearts out there who want them to live. They are not concerned with the welfare of all who have to deal with them or great expense of tax payers dollars.

JOENY I don't know what country you live in. But there are a lot of vile, evil "white" gangs out there murdering people.

J_P,

I hope you'd be wrong. :-) I was referring to the people who blame the NRA when guns come into crime. You know what I mean...

The NRA only backs Legal gun owners. Just that simple. All the correct paperwork, handling of weapons and correct usage "purpose". That's it. Anything a powder actuated weapon is used for "illegally", they do not back up. (obviously)

Have a good day...

A few weeks back I took my wife to a chain fast-food place in Phoenix. Because we didn't know the area that well, we didn't realize that although we were staying in a very nice hotel, it was situated in a bad area. Anyway, when we went into the restaurant, we realized we had stumbled into Gangbanger Central. BUT - nobody bothered either of us. They kept an eye on us, and we did the same. We got my wife's order and left. Anybody wonder why that was? Could it be because I was carrying (legally and openly) a cocked-and-locked 1911? Think we could have gotten out of there so quietly if I WASN'T armed?

takenaka,

Why?

StoneCold,

Yes. Gangbangers are all tough until someone shows they are not afraid (as you appeared). They want easy prey without any threat directly to themselves. You know, like takenaka above you who'll have to beat the hell out of a guy with a roll of paper towels who kicked in his front door (home invasion).

Hope this helped...

Being a gang member should not be a crime. We have a first amendment right to peaceably assemble, and so do they. But as soon as they cease to be peacable, it should be the gallows for them!

Evacuate one of the slums in NY or Chicago or any major city, and round up all the gang bangers and druggies (regardless of race/nationality/gender) and drop them in.

Why? Alcatraz still exists - stop using it as a tourist site and put it to the use it was originally intended for! Dump them there and let them have at it! They can divide it up based on cell blocks and fight over the best ones.

Being a gang member should not be a crime. We have a first amendment right to peaceably assemble, and so do they. But as soon as they cease to be peaceable, it should be the gallows for them!

what do you think a gang is?? What do you think they stand for? what do you think they do?

I wish people would use the first amendment for what it was meant for and stop using it for an excuse for bad behavior.

Creek Dog - I'm not stupid. I know if I had gotten in those guys' faces, or tried to hit on their women, the @!$%# would have hit the fan and maybe I wouldn't have been sitting here today. But I think there was a mutual atmosphere of "Don't @!$%# with me and I won't @!$%# with you", and that was good enough for me. I'm in no way a tough guy, but I will not let my wife be threatened or harassed. But it's much simpler to avoid a confrontation than to win one.

eric pickles

We don't have the funds to relocate that many yard apes out of the ghetto. Either force feed them bleach (cheap) or let them kill each other (free) or we could drop a few crates of guns and ammo at every street corner, (the fastest solution)

"Hi, I'm Adolf Hitler and I approve this message."

StoneCold,

I never insinuated that you were stupid. If that's what you meant.

Hell yeah, you'd have your hands full if you threw your weight around while legally carrying. I feel comfortable when carrying and avoid any and all confrontations at all costs. It's a two way street.

Have a good day...

Being a gang member should not be a crime. We have a first amendment right to peaceably assemble, and so do they. But as soon as they cease to be peaceable, it should be the gallows for them!

what do you think a gang is?? What do you think they stand for? what do you think they do?

I wish people would use the first amendment for what it was meant for and stop using it for an excuse for bad behavior.

moral - where did I say the first amendment was an excuse for bad behaviour? What did I say? "But as soon as they cease to be peaceable, it should be the gallows for them!" How is that excusing bad behaviour? Or did you just not bother to read that part?

"I never insinuated that you were stupid"

Oh, I know that, I was just making conversation. It's my ex-wife that insinuates I'm stupid. Guess I am, cuz I married her.

Anyway, from reading your post(s) I think you & I think a lot alike, especially about avoiding confrontation. Doesn't make us pussies, just makes us smart. Have you read Massad Ayoob's "In the Gravest Extreme?". It's all about NOT shooting. Attitudes like yours & mine go a long way toward refuting the stereotype of gun owners being drunken yahoos.

What do you carry, if I may ask? I carry a 1911 on and off duty (Arizona Rangers), but I'll be switching to a Glock 19 as my duty weapon once I qualify with it.

You have a peaceful day.

38 S & W.

X's will insinuate a lot more than that LOL. My 28th is coming up this Saturday. Never divorced. Close once but came to our senses.

Yeah, I hate confrontations. I really do try and walk when confronted. I'm not some bad-ass dude or anything like that but I can hold my own. Once I had this big dude who kept talking to my wife,.. (I play drums and I was at a local gig) while I was playing and between sets, she would tell me about the guy who kept talking to her and she felt very uncomfortable about it and he would walk away when I approached.

Anyway, the lead singer actually said something to him "nicely" and he went ape @!$%#. Yelling and having his friends holding him back. I was scared @!$%#less at the extreme moment but when he started calling my wife a whore, (he was drunk) I wanted to punch him right in @!$%#in' the face man. I didn't. I actually had to hold back a couple of my buddies from getting to him LOL.

I hate @!$%# like that. My heart was pumping hard for 8 hrs after that. Oh well, he should've known better. When people are on stage, we invite as many friends as we can so I had like 20 to 25 buddies there but it never came to a head "luckily".

Nope, never read it.

You have good day also, "peace"...

28th - congratulations. I've been married to my second wife for almost 10. The first one was just practice.

Once again the whites are out of control.

Jeff

Please take your head out of the sand.

Gang bangers are more than just forgotten youth. Their parents are gang members also . The parents are the leaders and captains of the gang. Also their teachers and mentors while they are doing time. White Supremacists are another breed altogether and have a totally different agenda.

Tim McVeigh was tried and executed and indeed was a terrorist in the true sense of the word. As for gang bangers being the result of other people turning their backs and "forgetting." If I saw their parents spending money on books, computers, and art supplies as opposed to leasing a $400/mo navigator with their government handouts, buying $200 Nike's for their kids and all other sorts of bling while not instilling BASIC skills of respect your elders, literacy, art, sharing, and take responsibility for your actions as opposed to blaming everything on the "white devil" and see that they are still not getting ahead then I would agree with you. Unfortunately this is just not the case. You don't see the Chinese sitting around on their asses cursing, spitting, littering, fighting, stealing. They bust their asses doing some pretty grimey work so their kids have a chance to make it. The time for blame is over.

No jeff....not only are these gang-bangers terrorist, (look up the definition) but they are simply spineless cowards who are not forgotten but have turned their back on civilized society and the out reach and help that society has offered them.

Instead of working to better their lot in life they set back and group together a bunch who feel that everybody in the world owes them something and if it isn't given fast enough they start with the violence......all the world owes them is a swift kick in the butt.

a2ggg2 - "You don't see the Chinese sitting around on their asses cursing, spitting, littering, fighting, stealing."

I guess you've never heard of the Tong???

Gang bangers are children that have no hope. They live in poverty, they have nothing but each other- that is how they think. Their teachers do not care. It is not a life that is the envy of anyone on this thread. It is true that generation after generation are gang members and these kids either end up dead or in jail. These youths are a blight on Americans, yes, all of us. We overlook them. We neglect them. We denigrate them. They were born with nothing and they'll die with nothing and the rest of us, including me, stand around and do nothing. Were are "Christian" values?

MO, please give the latest information on Tong wars with sources cited.

@ huskergal they took that out of school along time ago, so that kids wont be taught morals by someone else , but some parents don't teach their kids morals anyway. moral less society is what you end up with

@hillbilly-genius I wish you could post that up high bright and bold for everyone to see. That is the problem. And things will not improve until that is turned back around.

White, black, asian, or latinos, gangs are no more then terrorist & should be treated so.

To huskergal, I come from a very poor family & yet I was taught proverty is no excuse to steal, lying, or taking a life. Of course my parents & grandparent taught us to work for what we needed or wanted instead of hanging out on street or running amok. We have become nothing more then a nation of excuse makers.

I get so tired of the excuses put out there for these people......

whhhaaaaa they are in a poor family....hey so was I ....
whhhaaaaa they live in a poor community......hey so did I....

It is all a bunch of BULL..... they can wallow around in poverty, thinking that they are owed something or they can get off their butts and go to working on bettering their lot in life, just like so many others have done. But then that would entail taking responsibility for themselves, their actions and for remaining in the conditions they might find themselves in.

DKJ, I couldn't agree with you more.

Enough of telling people "it isn't you fault because..(insert excuse here).." People should be responsible and accountable.

I agree that these gang members are almost unanimously victims of horrible childhoods.
But that in NO WAY justifies shooting at innocent people from a moving car.
There is no excuse.

White gangs, Black gangs, Latino gangs, Asian gangs: they are all alike.
They are all criminals and should be treated as such.

They are victims of horrible childhoods which they perpetuate. One generation of fatherless kids born of teen moms and raised by grandmothers gives rise to the next generation of the same. There are 70 year old great-great grandmothers in these towns. Where is the government with its much hyped "birth control" which it claims will be the solution to all of our nation's ills and allow women to have control of their bodies and their destinies?

Keep them out of the Army. The Army is already dealing with gangs forming in the military. Also, these would be the troops that murder and rape. You would just be providing them with a cover story out in the field. We need good people in our military, not thugs.

Keep them out of the Army. The Army is already dealing with gangs forming in the military. Also, these would be the troops that murder and rape. You would just be providing them with a cover story out in the field. We need good people in our military, not thugs.

Computer error made double post...sorry

Shame on the black community for blamming others for your murdering thugs. Where is Jessie and Al when you need them.

Quit picking on the black people, for chrissakes.
They are not the only ones who form gangs.

And in the meantime, they are breeding like rabbits.

"They are worthless humans that should not be aloud to take up resources of this planet."

Absolutely right. They should take up the planet's resources quietly.

Eric,

take the word "blacks" out of it and I agree with 6.2 completely. I would insert "lazy, oxygen thieves" in place of black so that it would encompass the true people that are on welfare for no reason.

Fair game to shoot down on the street.

Not to put too fine a point on it but that's how the toddler got shot.

warren

You sound like an anarchist . They days of the old wild west are long gone. Please rethink your posting . As you are calling for the complete destruction of moral society .

Isn't that what's already happening over there? Seems pointless to perpetuate the ills of society in order to cure them...

It's still around, it's just gotten more secular.

They moved in from the ghettos of NYC!

Cops avoid those projects because they don't want to get shot either.

"Public housing project"?
It sounds like New haven invited those gangstas.

You always get more of what you subsidize.

This might be a reason to isolate them somehow and just let them kill themselves off, it's what they prefer to do. If they didn't prefer violence and death, they wouldn't join the gang to begin with.

Joining a gang might have the appeal of lots of money, but that only lasts for a small amount of time before they are dead or in prison. So much for gangs....

If they want violence and death, give it to them. A fight to the death, dump them in a sealed location, and let them kill each other. If you are caught in a gang, you get sent to the 'gang deathmatch'.

The part I don't understand is the kids that are scared sh!#less of these same thugs wearing shirts that say "STOP NARCING" or "IF YOU SEE DA POLICE, WARNNA BROTHA"

Tracy - Good point. In Dave Grossman's "Bulletproof Mind" video lecture (which I recommend highly), he talks about the Columbine shooting. He says that all the kids - who wouldn't have given a cop the time of day before the incident - couldn't wait to hug & hide behind the cops AFTER the incident.

"Bulletproof Mind"is expensive. But Grossman's essay on "Sheep, Sheepdogs, and Wolves" is free to download. Well worth reading.

You know what Bill, you are almost right on point. But I wouldn't say it's only Black Culture but yes, Thug Life is glorified on tv, the media, You Tube, the neighborhood, rappers, etc, etc. I have lived in Harlem, The Bronx and Brooklyn and now live in a suburb in NJ and loving it, no more hoodlums and thugs standing around with their pants down to their ankles wearing wife beater t shirts, no more gunshots on an hourly basis, screeching police cars, crack lines, stick up kids, street toughs and more. These people have one destiny waiting for them Hospitals, Institutions, Jail and Death.

The people in the neighborhood tolerate these hoodlums, they know them, they are scared of them, etc, the police aren't going to do $hit to them because if we don't care the police don't care. What is needed is confrontation with these people, roaches scatter when the lights come on, we need to stake out the crack dens, the prostituition dens, the hangouts, etc and get the police involved. Only when the police feel heat from above will they crack down.

But as far as this being a Black Problem only the answer is no, it's an Hispanic Problem, An Asian Problem, a Russian Problem, a Caucasian Problem and if we don't stop them it will soon be Your Problem.

It's not "going white", it's "acting right".

Eric, I agree on you with you on some points. The only thing I would invest in in the ghetto would be a Liquor Store selling Lottery Tickets or a Laundromat if I could get a good deal but you can't even get that anymore, speculators are buying up land in the ghetto and holding it, I grew up in NYC and you best believe I would carry a licensed pistol at all times while conducting my business. As for letting the brothers just kill themselves off, that sounds a little out there.

I say increase the penalty for having a gun to 5 years straight up the first time and 10 years for the 2nd and 25 for the 3rd time. If you shoot someone 10 years minimum, if you kill someone 25 to life, make it hard for these punks and send their butts to Prison sooner because they are all going to end up there anywhere or dead.

Eric,

That's why the comparison to Islam and the Taliban fits. They are killing each other off at a rate just like the inner city folks do.

Crab,

You say taxing the rich doesn't create jobs. But giving them reduced taxes & bailouts hasn't created any jobs either. Doesn't it make sense that by taxing the rich they'll have to increase production in order to pay for those taxes. To increase production, hire producers.

Well Mr. Pickles, it is called relocating. People do it all the time in search of a better life or basically to fine new employment. This seem to have become a lost trend since the growth of our welfare society. No, it is not easy however in most cases turn out to be a better option then raising ones children in such an environment where they are encouraged to become criminals & gang material.

I lived in New haven for two years not 3 miles from Yale while I was going to school at SCSU; that was back in the very late 80s and gangs were common even then. You never walked anywhere by yourself and learned very quickly how to go around the even worse areas.

Gang bangers join because they're such wussies they can't face the 'hood without a posse behing them. Ironic isn't it?

Bengal

Oh that you knew what you spoke of.

Please allow me to provide a little bit of truth for you. The NRA does in fact support the Citizens RIGHT to possess firearms. The NRA also provides extensive training and support to the Law Enforcement community in the United States in addition to the military and other groups.

The NRA is also adamant in their support for laws against CRIMINALS that use firearms in the commission of a crime.

While you might want to denigrate an organization that supports the LEGAL ownership and use of firearms, I noted a serious lack of your desire to hold the perpetrators of crime accountable for their ILLEGAL use of firearms in your missive. Or are your actually a proponent of the illegal use of firearms by criminals?

My comment was meant to be sarcastic. Gun violence is out of control in this country. It's too easy to get guns & the police hands are tied until someone commits a crime with a gun. The NRA fights any law or person that tries to stop the proliferation in guns in this country. These punks were able to get guns because guns are so easy to get. The NRA bears some responsibility for our gun violent country. I only see things getting worse as more & more guns flood this country. More guns to protect us from the more guns that are out there is a recipe for disaster.

Yeah, that's right. The Nanny State's answer to everything - BAN IT.

Ban cigarettes

Ban abortions

Ban violent video games

Ban guns

Ban 16 oz. sodas

Ban gangs

Ban EVERYTHING somebody doesn't like.

Me, I'd like to see them BAN dogs, football, fat women and David Letterman. Why? Because I don't like them, therefore nobody else should.

See what a slippery slope you're heading down with bans? Didn't we try that once with alcohol? And drugs? How'd that work out?