Please don't be just like "them" and lump everyone in together. I'm very much a liberal. I do not support the wars we have been in whatsoever. But I DO support, love and appreciate our military members, and I can honestly say that I don't know a single liberal that doesn't feel the same way. I know they exist, but I've never met any of them.

While yes there are some immoral and amoral military members who tarnish the name of the military, they are the minority, and there are MANY amazing military members who truly believe that they are defending America and upholding peace in the world. They are good men and women, and they deserve respect.

You insulting liberals does nothing to further understanding and a "meeting in the middle". Please try to remember that just because someone is a "liberal" doesn't mean that they are deserving of a sneering label. If you remain part of the problem, by swapping insults, then you cannot be part of the solution.

If you are military, and it sounds by your post that you are, thank you for your service.

Another liberal here who agrees with Melanie. I'm what you would describe as pretty "anti-military" but that does not mean I'm anti-troops. I just hate the fact that we are expending our treasure and lives overseas for very little return.

You couldn't be more ridiculous. I come from a military family, some liberal, some conservative. My grandfather, whose service included and the D-Day invasion and fighting four years in France and Germany during WWII, was a life-long Democrat. Show some respect and keep politics out of it.

This is interesting as within the last few weeks another article was published about how "military friendly" US universities are.

Melanie/Eng- I'm glad you are standing up for your own beliefs. Unfortunately I believe much of these anti-military sentiments are coming from two places: The professors and student activists.

The Professors- When you look around at many universities (NYU, Columbia, Univ. of Chicago, Ivies, Berkley, etc.) you'll see that there are many, many professors that have backgrounds in anti-military, anti-establishment organizations and activities. They actively espouse their beliefs to their classes, encouraging them to think the same way. So the University may welcome military members into their annual classes, but the staff holds a very different perspective of the mililtary.

Student Activists- Let's face it, when you are 18-21 you feel like you know everything, your parents are out of touch, and you've got to change the world. Put a group of these feelings together and you get student versions of Code Pink, Occupy, etc. whom are adimately anti-military. Then put them on campus and you've got "protests", signs, meetings, etc. that are very hostile.

So I don't think "liberals" per se are anti-military in general. I think Universities are prone to bringing together large groups of very polar liberals and that's where the trouble begins.

Because trashing the military men ad women is common place with liberals.

Says the republican that clearly dislikes liberals and probably avoids them whenever possible.

Unlike you, I am capable of distinguishing between an organization and those in it. I love the Iranian people (most of them anyway). They are educated and typically very reasonable. Iran itself, however, I dislike immensely. I also don't like Israel's policies. But I have the utmost respect for the vast majority of Israeli people.

This may be a hard differentiation for you to understand, but the people in the military/country/company/organization are very different than the group itself. I even like most republicans, but dislike the party's social stances, and some of the economic ones.

I'm wondering whether they are separating anti-military from anti-troops.

I sure am not pro-military and I am not anti-troop.

Also, you're here blaming liberals, but I forget which party rejected many Veteran job's bills?

This liberal applauds and supports (actually supports, with gifts and airline miles to service members) our military. I come from a long line of army veterans; I received a nomination to West Point, but decided to enroll in a small engineering school instead. All of my liberal friends have no ill feelings for our service members and vocally support and defend them.

What I do have a problem with is all the "conservatives" who after 9/11 put up the "I support out troops" stickers on their cars, but when you ask them how they support the troops, they give you a blank stare. Apparently, a sticker was enough for them.

bob that is a really silly statement.

Most likely I am to the left of most of the posters here. I am also a veteran (US Navy Hospital Corps). With the exception of some extremely immature students quoted here most can separate the military, those who served, from the botched Afghanistan and completely unnecessary Iraq wars. The people who created these problems were political not military leaders. Unfortunately they have never been held accountable for their negligence.

You are correct in every way, and thank you. I could have been more diplomatic, but my intent was to say that the ignorant, narrow-minded, and inexperienced can insult us all they want. For the most part, we will not even realize or acknowledge that they were saying anything at all. Hopefully I didn't make too many grammatical errors in this post. I know that if I did, it would render it irrelevant.

while the little snobs were safe in their little cocoon; our troops were on the line , life and limb, trying to keep the enemy's of freedom at bay; and these little wet noised children have the audacity to look down on our troops, what the hell are they teaching these wet noised punks in college>

Ginger, change the channel and put the crack pipe down too. Your sweeping generalities about the liberal view of the military does little for your intelligence quotient. In fact, I DON'T support the apparent position of the United States as aggressor and this whole, relatively new, mindset of preemptive strikes. I further believe (as Eisenhower did) that the military-industrial complex will bury us. At $700 billion, we have a bigger defense budget that the next 15 countries combined. I'm NOT opposed to a strong military but 700 billion is gross overkill. However, NONE of this translates into disdain for the brave men and women who serve and for whom MOST people have the utmost respect and admiration; LIBERALS included. Analogy? Just because my bosses are a** holes, doesn't make me a bad guy.

Really Ginger? Are you as ignorant as you seem?

I'm probably the most liberal person in the world, makig Barney Frank look and sound like a Tea Partier. I'm also a Vietnam Vet who finished his college on the GI Bill of that time, which was paltry at best. Yet I have a lot of liberal friends, or at least acquantances, who support any and all troops who get out, or are in the Reserves or National Guard, who feel the (troops) actually need more help getting into and through college.

That said, I use the Vets Hospital and also go to a teaching University for health care. The VA is and has been for the last couple years treating the returning wounded vets just like the Vietnam vets of my era. Many organizations, American Legion, Veterans of Foreign Wars come to mind, treat them like they did us, basically not wanting them to be there.

I hate war, believe Bush should never have used a credit card and lie to get us into two unfunded wars. I don't like the fact that President Obama continued with a 'gradual' withdrawal. I think we should just do like the Russians did when they were in Afghanistan, that is just get the Hell out. (Read your history on that episode.)

Hating war and not liking the returning troops is a different animal, a horse of a different color. I support them, want them to get good jobs, be treated properly by the VA, go to college if they want or get technical training. In fact I would train more for technical work inasmuch as that pays more than the average college grad.

Get a life there, Ginger. Actually talk to other liberals than your seemingly small segment of people. Support the troops, regardless of how you feel about Iraq or Afghanistan. Try talking to some of them. I think you might be surprised that life doesn't revolve around you and your tiny coterie.

I am a "liberal" who does not advocate war, but I 100% support our brothers, sisters, daughters, sons and mothers and fathers who have served in our military!

They more than deserve a "free ride" in college..after all, their 'free ride' was years of hard work with the possibility of putting themselves in harms way both physically and psychologically.

Having our veterans get the college education they deserve is a minimum as we should do more for these people who deserve our praise.

As a professor who teaches college classes, I say to vets: "Welcome to college, we're especially glad that you are here! Thanks for givining us the the chance to now serve you! Best of luck!

jackieboy, I appreciate your service. I, for one, am a CMSgt/E-9 currently serving on my 2nd tour in AFG, as well as doing one tour in Iraq. Not speaking for Ginger, but I think that the people who do have problem with Vets are liberals. I'm not saying every person who disrepects a Vet is a liberal, but the majority of them are. They feel that they're entitled to their opinion no matter who they insult, as well as attack. I can tell you this much, not that I condone it, but I could see why any Vet would punch a liberal square in the face if they attacked them, verbally or physically.

Oh, Ginger, a lost soul you are indeed. I'm a former Army Corpral and team leader with service during OIF. I am also a flag bearing liberal. I am also a college graduate. When I heard anti-veteran sentiment on my campus, albeit very seldom, it often came from the rich youth of the republican party who also wasn't paying for their college because mommy and daddy handled it for them. Furthermore, conservatives hide behind a large defense budget as means to promote their "love for the military" yet in the same breath they do nothing for veterans. Look to the recently shot down veterans jobs bill. There were 40 nays....All forty were republican.

Sgt... The folks that insult vets are just a-holes. Their politics have nothing to do with it.

Thanks for your service!

Sincerely,

Republican College Prof

bobthemedic

I'm not surprised. Bring it on!! Our skin is 100X thicker than the average liberal!

Bite me bob...the average "Liberal" would talk that crap. I suspect she was a spoiled rich kid...probably 4th generation.

Sean, I appreciate your service, but you are seriously misguided. Why are you bringing politics into this? This is about our service, not who paid for who. As an E-4 Corporal, you certainly think like one. You have no idea about jobs bills because if you did you would realize that the Dems put their political "junk" in Defense bills, such as a Hate Crime bill and other things that have nothing to do with Defense, that's why the Republicans shoot down these bills, so make sure when you make a comment, you understand what you're saying. I too am in the military, a CMSgt/E-9, 1% of the enlisted force in the Air Force, serving on my 2nd tour in AFG, as well as serving one tour in Iraq, and also working on my PhD, so please spare us the "conservatives hide behind a large defense budget."

What? I don't understand what your point is. Please try again.

This does not surprise me at all.

I had to go "back to school" last year in order to gain a certification that was needed for career advancement.
Even though I was attending classes at night with a very diverse classroom population the attempted "indoctrination" by all three of my professors was unreal.

There was such a clear anti-White Male American, anti-Capitalist anti-Christian view held and expressed by each professor that I found myself continually interjecting historical facts and my opinions as based on my 47 year's of life experiences and as a child of legal Latino immigrants into our lectures.

Eventually I had classmates coming up to me each evening prior to our lectures and commenting that they had "checked" what I had said last class and they found my points to be accurate and the professors comments to be biased.

The issue that Academia in America is completely overrun by outright Communists and radical Socialist is not some abstract theory held by the "tin hat" crowd, it is fact.

And what is so frightening is that these misguided "progressives" are being paid by us to indoctrinate our children and the future of America with such historically failed beliefs as Marx.

No wonder American loving patriots are finding the adjustment to "College life" difficult.

Ok, there are some liberals who can't distinguish between the policies they detest, and the young men and women who see things differently, and volunteer to defend their country. There are tons more on the other side though, who think the liberals are "unAmerican", even "Traitors". There are those on both sides who profoundly misunderstand their own supposed beliefs. There are way more right wingers though, and they've been more hateful, for longer than the liberals. And, many military veterans are among the most hateful.

Even so, the majority on all sides realize that they just see things differently, and the other side has legitimate views. More important, it seems to me, is that we don't have an accepted way of hating wars (or a particular war), yet supporting the individuals who fight to defend our right to disagree. A former Marine Corps Commandant, during anti-Viet Nam War demonstrations, commented that the rights of the demonstrators, to demonstrate, was what his men were fighting, and dieing for!

If we are in any way an exceptional nation (as some people claim we are), it is this: We not only allow dissent, it is our DUTY, as Americans. If any opinion, popular or not, can not be expressed, it can not be acted upon. And, there will surely come a time that that unexpressed opinion will be the only one that will save our country, at that particular moment. (Example, the demonstrations got us out of Viet Nam, before that war destroyed our country. As, we were on the path to do. And, anti Iraq war demonstrations might well have saved us a TRILLION dollars, and 3,000 dead, had dissenters had the courage to demonstrate!) Welcome disagreement folks, its the American way!

Republican woman here. I fully support our military personnel both in the field and when they get back home. I do my best to help them find jobs with companies that prefer to hire veterans. I direct them to VA hospitals and help them with anything I am able to do. Veterans have given their minds and bodies to the service of this country, whether I agreed with the government or not, and whether they agreed with the government or not. These people have high standards, morals and values. They come back needing jobs and sometimes assistance. As citizens of the United States, we have no right to criticize the patriotic men and women that chose to serve our country. The fact that they did it should make everyone proud.

The veterans deserve the training for integration back into normal civilian life and jobs. They go off to unknown battles and regions and suffer so the average citizen can enjoy their freedoms. Support veterans. They deserve respect, no matter what. Assist them if asked or ask if you can. They are great people.

When my daughter enrolled in a small, local university, her brother was already serving in Afghanistan (less than one year after 9/11). She started going to one of the Christian student centers there and was shocked by how, as the sister of a soldier, she was shunned. This is in a pretty conservative area of Texas, too! So many of the students talked badly about our military and their families. It was ironic, I suppose, that her (and her brother's) staunchest supporters were the liberal professors!!!

I vote for whomever I feel will do the best job for our country... Democrat, Republican, etc. I look to the individual, rather than to the "group," to see what's what. Wonder if I can call myself a liberal Republican?

Who just voted down the a Veterans jobs bill?

Actions speak louder than words!

Hey Disabled Voter. Do you know what was in the Veteran's jobs bill? Unless you know, don't start blaming the Repubs. The Dems are slick when they add things that are not related to Veterans jobs bills or Defense bills. Find out before you speak trash.

EngEsq

Another liberal here who agrees with Melanie. I'm what you would describe as pretty "anti-military" but that does not mean I'm anti-troops. I just hate the fact that we are expending our treasure and lives overseas for very little return.

Nothing personal but that is a common yet completely contradictory position. You can’t be “anti-military” and not be “anti-troop”. The troops are the military. If you disrespect the organization and mission you disrespect the people who are in that organization performing that mission. You have to remember that “the military” in the US is under civilian control. The “military” does not decide “hay, I’m bored, let’s invade Iraq today!” That direction is set by civilian leaders and the “military” (you know, the PEOPLE who give their lives trying to defend our country) does its best to carry out the orders.

So, if you have a problem “expending our treasure and lives overseas for very little return” then you have a problem with the civilian authority not the military.

I'm with Victor130..... The liberal trash and misinformation being taught in our socalled halls of higher learning is disgusting to say the least. 2 years ago my former step daughter was enrolled in a local college and I could not believe the garbage she was being taught, and most of it at no more than a 6th grade level. In staying with the story here, her SATs were in the tank yet with help from her high school teachers she was able to get grants and loans only to have her fail out. After divorcing her mother they moved away and she is now attending a university in the south that costs damn near $40,000 a year, again on grants and loans, all at some point will be forgiven by the Gov't. The sad part is that most of the young"uns in college today are receiving some kind of assistance from the taxpayers, and all they are learning is a load of liberal hogwash and how to party. Our service men and women earned what they get, the others need to be removed from the taxpayers payroll.

The leftist communist students who speak out against veterans who volunteered to enlist in the military hopeing to get a college education in the process did so knowing full well they could be called on to give their life for their country. They paid for their college education in full. I suppose you communist students do not have a problem with the taliban shooting a fourteen year old girl in the head and because they failed to kill her they say they will continue to try. Would to God you people would just leave this country. I do not support the conflicts we had with iraq or afganistan either in the sense in the way it was fought. I believe we should have dropped so many bombs on them for so long that you could not have gone fifty feet without falling into a crater. Not one American life would have been lost to these people unless one of our bombers ahd been shot down. The arabs, and I do not leave anyone of them out, no matter what country they are in, as long as it its government is islam and the people are muslim, hate Americans and want us dead. Guess what the feeling is mutual.

It's interesting that some people automatically blame "liberals" when liberals are the ones who generally support tuition aid, while republicans and conservatives detest it as an entitlement - as socialism.

Why should we pay for these guys to go to college?” Hakim said he recalls a female student asking during a discussion on the nation’s responsibility to service members returning from war. “Everybody who goes into the military is stupid – that’s why they joined the military instead of going to college.”

As a veteran and college student (National honor society member,Two degrees and working on third) I have heard both of these statements and variations of them made by both fellow students and Professors. I also heard it a lot when I was a recruiter for the military and it was coming from the mouths of both teachers, and college recruiters. The last time someone said something like that to me, I asked them why they felt that way. I was told that they felt that people join the military because they have no other options in life or are stupid. Instead of getting upset I pointed out to them that every military officer has a college degree ranging from a B.A. to Doctorate, and that Every major military base has major colleges using the base education centers for the enlisted that attend classes. As far as paying for the education That's due to the Sonny Montgomery G.I.bill that service members pay into, and the college fund which is earned through time in service.

I don't believe he scored that high without cheating. As someone who was in the Army, I think we can all agree on the fact that Marines are stupid. ;)

They average like 40 on their ASVABs... xD

What I learned after years as an adjunct. College campuses are loaded with shiftless kids looking for something to do with their lives. They have no idea where they are going so they go to college. These kids constantly hook up with this anti-establishment group or the other to find "meaning" to their lives. If it isn't bashing the military it is some other hated feature of our country. Very few ever graduate since doing so actually requires them to do something other than sitting around whining. Worse, their whining is so pointless, if you challenge them for solutions to the problem they are whining about they either have none or spout complete fantasy suggestions. The ones who do manage to do something may end up as history professors after doing the big report that qualifies them for their PhD (give me a break!). For evry history prof job there is about 300 applicants so imagine the kind of person who would embark on such a pointless pursuit. Seriously though, after surviving Iraq or Afghanistan don't let their schtick bother you. They won't amount to a hill of beans in the coming years so it is their loss not yours.

Back to "baby killer", eh? I wondered how long it would take.

I want to repeat what BONOS-RAMA said:

It's interesting that some people automatically blame "liberals" when liberals are the ones who generally support tuition aid, while republicans and conservatives detest it as an entitlement - as socialism.

http://readersupportednews.org/opinion2/277-75/13881-why-i-a-former-gop-senator-will-vote-for-obama

"And as former member of the U.S. Senate Budget Committee, the Senate Finance Committee and Chairman of the then Commerce Committee, I came to know the federal budget in detail. I'm disappointed that just as our troops are returning home after a decade of war, Romney and Ryan might gut by up to 20 percent investments in the Department of Veterans Affairs - and even suggest privatizing the veterans' health care. Again, they would short change our national security and the education, health care and employment benefits our veterans have earned and deserve just to cut taxes for the wealthiest Americans." - Former Senator, Republican, Larry Pressler

bobthemedic I would say that there are stupid and ignorant people everywhere and we all make mistakes, as you did by putting all liberals in one big box.

Sept 19, 2012:
In their short work week before heading out of town, Senate Republicans decided to kill the Veterans Jobs Corp Act, 58-40.

The Veterans Jobs Corp Act would have created new job-training programs to help veterans find work in targeted fields such as national park conservation, historic preservation projects, police work and firefighting, among others.

http: // thehill.com /b...ith -budget -vote

Those darn Republican liberals vote AGAINST our returning vets jobs bills--YET AGAIN! ;^(

Joe - as a liberal, I might be very anti-war - and extremely opposed to the illegal invasions/occupations of Iraq and Afghanistan, but I never hold any of that against the service members.

I might not agree with all the reasons why a person enlists, but I think it's far more admorable than going off to an ivy league college and getting an education in how to screw the average american on wall street for personal gain.

Ultimately, I dont think service members are entitled to education, job assistance or health care when returning from service (at war, not stationed here at home the entire time). Rarther, I believe as a society we are obligated to provide it. It's the least we can do in exchange for risking your life, and most often, your mental health.

Thank You for your Service.

TM-1104284

Hey Disabled Voter. Do you know what was in the Veteran's jobs bill? Unless you know, don't start blaming the Repubs. The Dems are slick when they add things that are not related to Veterans jobs bills or Defense bills. Find out before you speak trash.

Hey TM (is that short for Tim or Training Manual?). Try not to give away the fact that BOTH parties submit add-ons to bills. It's part of the legislative process. You can try to blame it on democrats, but that's pretty disingenuous, if you actually know anything about the process.

tm is right the dems complain about reps voting down bills but the people never read more of whats in the bill other than what is popular as in the hcb wasn't it a dem that thinks you have to pass it before we know whats in it why do they let people like that stay in office off with their heads!

You can’t be “anti-military” and not be “anti-troop”. The troops are the military. If you disrespect the organization and mission you disrespect the people who are in that organization performing that mission.

Voice, the troops are not the same thing as the military. Each cog in the machine signs up out of patriotism, and sacrifices life and limb. They have VERY little to zero decision on their orders or deployment. I blame them for only their own actions on the field, and for the vast majority of our troops they perform in an exemplary fashion.

The decision makers (whether civilian, generals, or corporate entities) have employed the military in a way I cannot agree with. I was opposed to invading Iraq from day 1. I was leery about attacking Afghanistan. I do not think the US should be involved in protracted land wars. These feelings are not directed toward troops, but rather the establishment.

DAMN! Nice lookin' girl friend!

Wanna trade places?

I'm just outside of Chicago surrounded by Mexicans.

“Why should we pay for these guys to go to college?” Hakim said he recalls a female student asking during a discussion on the nation’s responsibility to service members returning from war. “Everybody who goes into the military is stupid – that’s why they joined the military instead of going to college.”

What a @!$%#ing stupid thing to say. I would be angrier for him, but then I saw his girlfriend. Nice pull brother!!

Watch out! Among other things, some of this is just about competition. Especially if one gets into the art departments - nothing is ever said about it, but many students gets in a 'cutthroat' mode.

And among government workers, in the last twenty years, some of them claim that giving veterans preference for government jobs is really a form of discrimination against non-veterans. Some people can twist logic like a pretzel.

As a vet, how does one "separate the warrior from the war"??? Last time I checked, there are NO wars without warriors willing to do the fighting! (or unwilling in a draft situation, which we should go back to, parenthetically, in order to curb these wars of choice versus necessity)

My father spent 4 years in the US Army during WW2. When he came back, he was cheated out of the stipend that GIs are supposed to live off of while attending school. No matter who he and his father, a WW1 veteran saw, no one would help. That is why it sickens me to see these border jumpers from Mexico get a free education and other benefits while their relatives lived in the US picking lettuce, nice and safe.

None of you supporting the Repub's voting against the veteran job bill have supplied any citations for what was supposedly added to the bill that made the Repubs vote against it. After that vote, I didn't hear any Repubs remark about voting against it because of anything that was added on. I did hear that Repub Rand Paul said he voted against because they wouldn't add to it something about someone in the Middle East being let out of prison. Talk about adding something completely unrelated to a bill!

bobthemedic,

Don't presume to speak for all veterans as conservatives, because every veteran served their country and paid their dues, liberal, conservative, and every race, creed, and color under the sun, as soldiers with duty to their country first, not their party.

There are always going to be those who denigrate what they don't understand, be it veterans or anything else.

When American has a commander and chief in the Whitehouse who is determined to turn Americans against each other as he wages his class warfare, nothing should surprise us!

Obama has in effect waged war on America, the Catholic Church, US Christians, success, small business and American socioeconomic thinking! So, it is no surprise to see ignorant American liberals attacking very individuals who defend the very liberty and freedoms they enjoy!

God Bless our Troops!

NOBAMA 2012

It's only called class warfare when we fight back.

Stop your complaining and go to school on the GI Bill ....If you could deal with the Taliban and rest of the jihad-est fighters you sure can put up with some college kids... Semper Fi

ClearVoice2

When American has a commander and chief in the Whitehouse who is determined to turn Americans against each other as he wages his class warfare, nothing should surprise us!

You're confused. Democrats have called-out the class warfare the wealthy and corporations have been waging for over 30 years. Republicans are just pissed that we finally figured it out.

EngEsq

Voice, the troops are not the same thing as the military.

I disagree. You would not have much of a “military” without the troops. The United States has the best hardware in the world but all those gee-whiz, slam-bang gizmos don’t mean squat if you don’t have good people to run them. The heart and soul of the military is the people and you cannot disrespect “the military” without disrespecting those who serve.

The decision makers (whether civilian, generals, or corporate entities) have employed the military in a way I cannot agree with. I was opposed to invading Iraq from day 1. I was leery about attacking Afghanistan.

You confuse the tool with those who wield it. The military is a tool which is, as I said, under civilian control. It was not “the military” – not even the generals – who decided to invade Iraq or Afghanistan.

I do not think the US should be involved in protracted land wars. These feelings are not directed toward troops, but rather the establishment.

Neither do I butI reserve my ire for the cowardly political “establishment”, which deserves little more than contempt, rather than “the military”.

I put twenty years in the Navy during the draft years. I recall those years that I served as a Chief Petty Officer, with a wife and two children. Even though I was receiving full pay and continuous hazardous duty pay, my income was so low, we qualified for food stamps. When I retired in 1970, my retired pay was $300 a month. More than half of that went to my - by then - ex-wife and three children. She had gotten tired of her husband being gone all of the time. I don't blame her.

With to $75 I got each month, as a retired Senior Chief, I quickly became homeless and learned how to live out of Dumpsters behind grocery stores. Due to combat I had developed PTSD that nobody was then able to recognize. It took 42 years for the VA to finally decide to award that diagnosis in my case. Think I got any back pay? HA!

I look back with bitterness. About the only feeling of satisfaction is the knowledge that I have shared with no one. By doing my job with total dedication, I saved hundreds of lives. I have even continued to do so these many years later. I'm the guy that told the Army how to stop the IEDs. As soon as they started doing what I told them to do, Death and injuries from IEDs in Iraq were greatly reduced; Almost eliminated.

I've often wondered how many are alive today because of what I did.

Since when are stories written based on what trolls on Newsvine and a couple of students in a college class say? The article (reluctantly it seems) goes on to point out that any negative reactions are very isolated and rare.. but yet they still wrote an article about it?? Is that journalism now? Well if so I heard in the student union that the Kappas were all sluts who stole other girls boyfriends... so you might want to jump on that story NBC.

Voice, I think we are basically on the same page, but have different ways of expressing it. To me, the military is an organization. An entity unto itself. Like any other sovereign nation, company, or branch of government.

By "anti-milirary" I mean that I disagree on how the military is used, how much money we pour into it, and the sway it has over our political process. If we are arguing over the semantics of what "military" is, then the debate is a straw man.

Most liberals are "anti-military" in the same way I just described. Meaning they think the military has grown too large, too powerful, and is used too readily. This has no animosity or ill will toward the troops, however.

Sheesh, so the little a$$hat 'students' are still at it? Ditto the elitist college professors? Shades of the sixties. So sorry, when you diss a service man or woman, you are dissing the people willing to give their lives so you have the 'right' to spew hatred. Ignorance will never be eradicated, especially when the 'liberal bastion universities' proliferate. Marxist doctrine, radical doctrine abounds in those venues. Why? Because servicemen and women gave their lives so that insulated radical elitists could carry their dialectic to the empty heads that fill their classrooms.

Note how many radicals of the sixties, murderous radicals, are now college professors? Bill Ayers, murderer, bomber and radical of the worst stripe, now 'reformed' and pushing his radical theology.

Tell you what, when the chips are down, and the sh!t hits the fan, I guarantee those whiney little hypocrites will be the first to run and hide behind the soldier.

Bill Briggs - Through newsvine, NBC News asked both of those readers to elaborate on their comments for this story. Neither responded.

WAY TO GO BILL BRIGGS AND NBC, now all the Demoncraps on Newsvine are attempting to cover their Arses; so that maybe they might not get Investigated by the FBI, Detained, Interrogated, Arrested, Tried, Convicted, Imprisoned For Hate Crimes Against Federal Employees (US Military) and Previous Federal Employees (US Military Veterans).

All the FBI has to do is request your Internet Provider (IP) Addresses, and Physical Location(s) as authorized by President Obama's January 21, 2009 Patriot Acts, that eliminated Constitutional Rights. Section of Monitoring and Censorship of All US Communications. Other Section on the Mandatory Cooperation (without Warrant) of All US Communications Entities.

Isn't that correct EngEsq, Eng (English) Esq (Patent Clerk) at the London Patent Office, and Melanie-1631910, I'm just saying..., Ol_Doc. Perhaps I should give Bill Briggs copies of your previous newsvine posts.

Then Speaker for All Demoncraps, Speaker of the House, Nancy Pelosi, "Anyone returning from the Wars is a potential Homegrown Domestic Terrorist". (GUILTY UNTIL PROVEN INNOCENT). All of YOU and the Demoncraptic Party Representatives YOU Voted For, that made Nancy Pelosi Speaker for All Demoncraps are of the same Mentality, as proof she is still at US Congress House of Representatives.

When I was in religious, conservative Colorado Springs, people were unfriendly to the troops, and generally seemed to see us all as drunks & undesirables who were after their daughters.

In "liberal" California, people thanked me for my service and tried to buy me meals, beers, etc to the point it was embarrassing. Supporting the troops and wanting to fuel the military industrial complex, or kick more butt and take more lives all over the globe, are 2 entirely different things.

As a grad school-bound veteran, I'm thankful for my country and its taxpayers paying for my undergrad degree, a generous, top 5% income (including tax advantages and housing allowance) by the time I got out, and awesome experiences in Afghanistan, the Middle East, Europe, and various states in the US.

I'm profoundly grateful, and it doesn't bother me others don't understand the great opportunity the military gave me. They're the ones who missed out!

TM - Maybe you can point me to proof that the reason the Repulicans blocked the bill is because there was other "junk" in it. After reading your first post, I was curious so looked it up (about 7 different places) and could only find evidence that the bill was blocked for one of 4 reasons:

1) procedure calls for legislation affecting the budget to be introduced in the House rather than the Senate so they can vote for a waiver to allow the bill to go forward; 5 Republicans voted for it but the vote was 58-40 against

2) the Republicans say (there are quotes (check rollcall.com among other sites) it will add to the deficit although it is said to be paid for

3) there's no proff this will work

4) the Republicans say it is a gimmick

Unfortuantely, with the attitude of some Republicans to make Pres. Obama fail and their votes against so many jobs bills, it's hard not to believe that the Republicans only goal is to win back the White House by blocking any progress.

Here is a summary of the bill from the Library of Congress which I got to from senate.gov (search for S.Amndt. 2789 which is the waiver vote or S.3457 which is the actual "jobs bill" all of which applied to veterans except for last 3 measures which I can't see why Republicans or anyone would object to them:

S.3457
Latest Title: Veterans Jobs Corps Act of 2012
Sponsor: Sen Nelson, Bill [FL] (introduced 7/30/2012) Cosponsors (10)
Related Bills:H.R.6455, H.R.6563, S.3429
Latest Major Action: 9/19/2012 Senate floor actions. Status: Returned to the Calendar. Calendar No. 476.

SUMMARY AS OF:
7/30/2012--Introduced.

Veterans Jobs Corps Act of 2012 - Directs the Secretary of Veterans Affairs (VA) (Secretary) to establish a veteran jobs corps to employ veterans: (1) in conservation, resource management, and historic preservation projects on public lands and maintenance and improvement projects for cemeteries under the jurisdiction of the National Cemetery Administration; and (2) as firefighters and law enforcement officers. Requires priority employment for veterans who served on active duty on or after September 11, 2001. Provides for such employment in coordination with the Attorney General, the Commanding General of the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers, and the Secretaries of Agriculture, Commerce, Homeland Security, and the Interior. Directs the Secretary to establish a steering committee for assistance in providing such employment.

Directs the Secretary of Labor to commence a pilot program to assess the feasibility and advisability of providing veterans seeking employment with access to computing facilities in order to: (1) match veterans with available jobs based on veterans' skills acquired as members of the Armed Forces, and (2) allow employers to post information about available jobs.

Directs the Secretary, as a condition of a grant or contract to a state for certain veterans' employment and training programs, to require the state to demonstrate the consideration of any military training received by a veteran when approving or denying a commercial driver's license or a certification to be a nursing assistant or certified nursing assistant, or an emergency medical technician or paramedic.

Directs the Secretary of Labor to establish minimum funding levels for specified veterans' benefits contracts and grants to ensure that each state receives sufficient funding to support at least one disabled veterans' outreach program specialist and one local veterans' employment representative per 5,000 square miles of service delivery area within the state.

Directs the Secretary of Labor, during the one-year period beginning on the date of enactment of this Act, to provide the Transition Assistance Program to veterans and their spouses at locations other than military installations in at least three and up to five states selected by the Secretary based on the highest rates of veteran unemployment.

Amends the Internal Revenue Code to provide for a 100% continuous levy upon the property and rights of Medicare (title XVIII of the Social Security Act) providers and suppliers neglecting or refusing to pay taxes.

Repeals provisions of the Energy Policy Act of 2005 providing for a program for the research, development, demonstration, and commercial application of technologies for ultra-deepwater and unconventional natural gas and other petroleum resource exploration and production.

Permits the Secretary of State to deny, revoke, or limit a passport to any individual upon receiving certification from the Secretary of the Treasury that such individual has a delinquent tax debt in an amount in excess of $50,000.

Thanks to all vets for your service.
An Air Force "brat" and according to the Pew Reasearch site test, very liberal.

When I read/hear comments that article above, I shake my head and more often than not, I snicker at the complete ignorance of the commenter. You see, the decision to join the military and serve is not a political one as both conservatives and liberals enlist. Some are driven to enlist for financial reasons, some for desire to serve the USA, some for family tradition etc. There is no particular reason. Yes, there are benefits that are earned by veterans that are not available to non-vets. Most vets earn every benefit they are entitled to. If you want these things, enlist and serve honorably.

My husband is active duty military with 19+ years of service so far. In our 7 years of marriage we have been apart for 3.25 years (we calculated this recently). Other couples I know have spent more time apart than we have. He has been shot at, stabbed, ambushed, survived mortar attacks, IED's, and God only knows what else. I stopped wanting to know. I was the one developing PTSD! I'd like to see someone tell me that he doesn't deserve to have his education paid for. He's paid for it many times over in both physical and personal sacrifice. He has three degrees and is working on a fourth.

It is he and his fellow brothers/sisters in arms that make it safe for the nay sayers of this wonderful free country to spew their ignorance. Personally I think it's jealousy that drives some of these remarks. We live in the age of entitlement. So many youth think they are to be handed the keys to the kingdom without having to earn it.

Go ahead, disparage the military and it's members, they will still keep defending your rights and your freedoms.

david-475776

Ol_Doc. Perhaps I should give Bill Briggs copies of your previous newsvine posts.

Knock yourself out studmuffin.

Not only is it likely that she's not paying her own tuition, she's probably not paying any taxes that go toward these veterans' educations, despite saying “Why should we pay for these guys to go to college?”

It's not much of a stretch to label the average college kid as pretty stupid, no matter what their major or SAT score. They have no life experience, no work experience, watch little actual news, and think they know everything (which is what makes them so annoying). It's not until they get out into the world they realize the assumptions they've made about life don't hold water.

Most people manage to grow out of this immaturity as they interact with others not like themselves, but there will always be some who never get there.

AG99 - College kids can be immature and often parrot their parent's beliefs in the first few years of college until they see they are other ways to view the world. However, to say that the average college kid is pretty stupid is unfair. My son graduated from college and immediately enlisted in the Navy because he still agreed with his dad that if we're going to have a military, people from all walks of life should participate.

I have seen a lot of people from both the Republican and Democratic party not understand the hardships that active duty military face. They are on duty for months at a time in difficult conditions and may not see their loved ones for months at a time and don't get paid enough for what they do.

mom of four: I'm sure there are exceptions, but I remember how clueless I was in college, as were all the people around me, and how utterly convinced we all were that we were right. It wasn't until I approached 30 that I even began to get a clue.

What's most upsetting is the children have no guts. Come on kids, show your faces and stop hiding behind your computers. Whether or not you agree with war, the people you are trashing have put their lives on the line for YOUR freedom too. If you need a protest model, look to the 60s not to those pointless "Wall Street" folks. Organize an anti-war sit-in. Write a song. Get arrested. Make a difference!!! And please, stop whining in the shadows.

I noted the girl quoted in the article got an F on her mid-term. That speaks volumes for the value of her opinion.

Personally, I completed my degree while in the USAF. It wasn't easy, but who said it would be? I went in knowing the deal. The self discipline I learned served me as well any anything else I got from my enlistment. Those current vets do deserve our respect, but I think most will be able to handle themselves quite well, considering the fact most will be older and more mature than their classmates.

I really liked Scott's reaction to the immature little snot, he just worked harder and vastly out- performed her.

What the young lady doesn't seem to understand is that freedom isn't free. When you are in the military, you agree to put your life on the line so that others can continue to have their freedom. What the young lady needs to do is enlist and see the whole picture. Until you have been there, you don't see the whole picture. That is the primary problem that those who haven't been there or done that do not seem to understand.

Really clearvoice you going to make this political, how about the fact i dont think i have heard Romney mention one time about afghanistan.

This seems like a case of NBC trying to find a story where there is none. There will always be ignorant people everywhere you go. But according to the article it is rare and sporadic. The title of the article would have you believe that the problem is more wide spread then it is.

No matter where you go Scott, you're bound to run into a brain-dead jackass from time to time. Ignore them - know that your country is proud of you and your mission was an honorable one.

Stop your complaining and go to school on the GI Bill ....If you could deal with the Taliban and rest of the jihad-est fighters you sure can put up with some college kids... Semper Fi

Wow!...Reading these posts really confirms what I've encountered all over the globe..

A-holes come in all colors, races, genders countries, etc.... And the same can be said of truly good people. For those of you that support us troops, THANKS! We fight so that everyone has the freedom to have an opinion. (Trust me....you won't find that in most other countries.) If you don't believe me-go there. Enjoy your freedom.

The administration thanks the troops for their service by FAILING to comply with a law requiring that it help soldiers deployed overseas cast ballots in their home states.

First off, it's the STATES failing to comply with FEDERAL law regarding overseas ballots for military members. Each STATE is supposed to provide the ballots for their election and give enough time for return - certain STATES aren't meeting those standards set by Federal mandate.

Some ppl can't even get their partisan talking points right.

In regard to the article: Being a vet who went to school on the GI Bill, I never really ran into this. Maybe jealousy more than anything over my nice fiscal circumstances... and most the time it was from ppl going on Daddy's dime.

Hate to burst ya'lls bubble but welcome to America, sometimes people are goanna say sh1t you dont like. Thats how freedom of speach works....

Suck it up... :)

ClearVoice2,

What exactly do you mean the Administration is failing to enforce the laws. The House of Representatives controls the purse strings. You can't enforce the law when you take away the money. Who's running the House of Representative...REPUBLICANS. Now, I believe you said, comma pause for the effect,

However, the Pentagon's inspector general reported that attempts to locate and contact IVAO offices at overseas military installations FAILED HALF THE TIME!

"Results were clear. Our attempts to contact IVAOs failed about 50% of the time," the inspector general reported. "We concluded the Services had not established all the IVAOs as intended by the MOVE Act because, among other issues, the funding was not available UNDER OBAMA DIRECTIVES!

Obama's directives at the time, you ******* is to fight two financially unsustainable wars. But believe you me, if you had one IOTA of a damned brain, you would know as I surely do, that every single Battalion Adjutant, or X.O. and at times an Officer appointed by the Commanding Officer will be assigned to, or act as, the units Voting Assistance Officer. They will assist the service member in getting his absentee ballot from his state. It is the service members responsibility, just as it is yours, to fill out the ballot and get it back. It's very simple, because as you surely do know: you get your ballot, you fill it out, you put it in an envelope, and then you mail it in. Just in case you didn't know, we even run mail from the combat zone back here to CONUS.

So now if you want the truth and nothing but the truth...read the entire DoDIG MOVE Act Implementation Report. I am damned tired of Republicans lying and trying to distort the record and facts.

@ American Socialist:

Just remember that these young men and women are paying, with their bodies and their blood, your freedoms. If you have a gripe, please gripe at the fat kats and politicians who seldom have loved one in the military in the frist place.

You have the right to call out our vets, but as one myself, I have the right to call you out in return.

Peace....

First, I'm a vet, served in the navy. But I do think most marines and grunts are morons. Its also a mercenary army since 9/11. We pay two to three times as much as when I was in twelve years ago. Bonuses sound like they work on wallstreet, and they get college paid for. And no, they are not fighting for our freedom, they are fighting for the freedom of Shiite Iraqis to join Shiite Iran in killing us. And so Haliburton and other companies can exploit the governments free money give away. Mercenaries get paid for what they do. If they wanna die for money, go ahead. When we get invaded, then I'll join back up.

T.R. Hendricks

No they are not, with the exceptions of WW2 and Bin Ladden, war is now about oil, money and politics and the fact that we as a country need to quit swinging our supposed big American d1cks around like we own the world.

Ron Paul was right...we are not the world police!

Take one look at what is going on in our country and tell me it is not political! The military opposes Obama by a margin of almost 3 to 1.

ClearVoice2 - actually, no one in our military openly opposes Obama. They aren't allowed to. It's called insubordination. He is their Commander in Chief and they will follow him, regardless of political party, because that is what they signed up to do.

And just as a general statement, I go to a very wealthy, very conservative college. The average family income here is over $350K. My fiance is currently in Afghanistan, I consider myself liberal, the vast majority of the students I hear talk bad about the military consider themselves conservative and don't know anyone in the armed forces. The only people who honest to god complain about their tax money going to the military are ones who aren't paying much in taxes anyway. The middle class has bigger tax issues to complain about than benefits for returning vets.

Bill Briggs - Through newsvine, NBC News asked both of those readers to elaborate on their comments for this story. Neither responded.

WAY TO GO BILL BRIGGS AND NBC, now all the Demoncraps on Newsvine are attempting to cover their Arses; so that maybe they might not get Investigated by the FBI, Detained, Interrogated, Arrested, Tried, Convicted, Imprisoned For Hate Crimes Against Federal Employees (US Military) and Previous Federal Employees (US Military Veterans).

All the FBI has to do is request your Internet Provider (IP) Addresses, and Physical Location(s) as authorized by President Obama's January 21, 2009 Patriot Acts, that eliminated Constitutional Rights. Section of Monitoring and Censorship of All US Communications. Other Section on the Mandatory Cooperation (without Warrant) of All US Communications Entities.

Isn't that correct EngEsq, Eng (English) Esq (Patent Clerk) at the London Patent Office, and Melanie-1631910, I'm just saying..., Ol_Doc. Perhaps I should give Bill Briggs copies of your previous newsvine posts.

Update: forgot about Feisty Redhead's Newsvine Posts.

Then Speaker for All Demoncraps, Speaker of the House, Nancy Pelosi, "Anyone returning from the Wars is a potential Homegrown Domestic Terrorist". (GUILTY UNTIL PROVEN INNOCENT). All of YOU and the Demoncraptic Party Representatives YOU Voted For, that made Nancy Pelosi Speaker for All Demoncraps are of the same Anti US Military Anti US Military Veteran Mentality, as proof she is still at the US Congress House of Representatives still spewing this hate.

It is just like I posted before US Military MUST Close All US Military Installations at States where they are NOT wanted, as indicated by their State's Representatives to US Congress.

I'm gonna have to keep saying this... Our vets get paid very handsomely already for their sacrifices that no one forced them to take. They weren't drafted, they made a choice to serve their country. I admire that choice, I do, but they were already rewarded for their bravery by being paid for it, and if they were in combat they were paid even better. Why should tax payer also have to foot the bill for an education afterwards when we already paid all their bills and some while they were enlisted? News flash veterans... freedom may not be free and you can think that as long as you want, but neither are soldiers, neither are flights around the world, neither is your housing, your bullets, your body armor, your weapons, your training, your doctors visits for ptsd and other ailments, neither are your retirement benefits, and definitely not your paycheck while you're enlisted. These are your rewards for your bravery. They are all paid for by we the people. You're welcome for our sacrifices too. Someone explain why any vet deserves free school too? I'd love to hear it. You realize those people complaining also pay for their school and work to do so right? That their hard work PAYS for the Armed Forces? We paid you for your services already you don't deserve a free education too. Remember thats why you CHOSE to be in the military anyway.... to pay for school or to avoid it because you didn't think you'd make it. Veterens need to remember that the people they serve are also paying with their bodies and blood and sweat. They work so you can fight for us that is the deal. DON'T FORGET THAT! Also America has gun laws and over 75% of us have guns. Compare that to any other country, I have, and you'll find that even if an attacking country outnumbers us we have more bullets and people who know how to use that ammo. It very unlikely that American homeland will be attacked so who exactly is being protected... Whose freedoms? Oh yeah thats right... Military bases, other countries peoples, oil pipelines, the rights of people who don't care about america. So I have to pay for the education of a soldier who didn't even protect my freedom? While the everyday citezen has to put themselves in the poor house for the same education? Seems fair right?

During the Vietnam war era, there were lots of rude comments about veterans, and they have continued. The people making the comments are usually not qualified for military service for mental or physical shortcomings, moreso than any religious or philosophical standing. They don't seem to realize it is politicians who make the decisions to get them into conflicts around the globe. Many if not mentally unfit, are cowards who won't stand up for others if it means a personal sacrifice on their part. Many more are criminals, and that right there makes them unfit for duty. Gone are the days when you could be functionally illiterate to be a member of the armed forces, and those not realizing that are like the woman who complained and got a grade of F for her coursework.

You're statement is very cynical and misleading. We pay into our G.I. Bill - bottom line - so stop spreading B.S. lies. Very few people choose to use their G.I. Bill...but for those that do, the investment was and is very, very wise. Yes we did volunteer...be that as it may, volunteering to die for your country is no easy decision...and to tell you the truth, I would feel better knowing that I made the decision to serve, rather than being forced to serve and eventually dying.

You must also realized that we also pay taxes as well. We don't get a break unless it's while serving in a combat zone. Yes we who serve, we the people in uniform...pay taxes as well. So, save you're damned cynical ignorance for someone who gives a crap...

RMM1784 post 2.25-As I have stated before, unless you have been there and done that you will never understand. Understood!

Remember we also pay taxes when we are not in a war. The pay wasn't that great when I served. After I got out, I paid taxes for the benefit of everyone, just like you.

Mike X, I just had to respond to your tirade. I joined the US war machine because they paid for my college at a top US school, they paid me outstanding pay and benefits, and now I'm headed to graduate school. It's been a fantastic experience, being a part of the greatest war machine ever built.

I'm proud of the work we've done, and especially proud of the work I got to do as a military adviser in Afghanistan. We've done a lot of crazy fun things over there, like trying to promote law and order, build roads, help them stand up a real government and military. Sure, politicians allowed our original goals to get foggy, but we've shown a real commitment to a fledgling democracy, for what it's worth.

I like your passion. As a cog in the war machine, I can tell I've done an outstanding job to earn such a long-winded rant from Mike X. No one would write such a rant about an E.U. military these days, that's for certain. Here's to being #1!

Cheers,

A former member of the "destructive mob" who's proud to be associated with it.

Reminds me of when I went to a Community College in the mid-70's after Nam tours.

Frustrating to hear folks say bad things about our military when our brave men and women are the ones on the front line(s) defending our Freedoms (of speech).

Our Presidents in (military) uniform says a lot:

• http://message.snopes.com/showthread.php?t=78166

How can you honestly use the statement that you invest into your own GI Bill to justify why you should get free school? You fail to recognize that that money you "invest" is still given to you as payment for your services and is paid for by tax dollars. I never once insinuated you didn't pay taxes, I did however lay out the very real fact that the entire military is bought and paid for by tax payer money AKA WE THE PEOPLE. The GI bill is not free education, it is not any of those other things I mentioned either. The GI bill is an investment you can make if your bad with money or worried about your future families needs. It's basically a 401K, a way to put a little of your salary aside to have when you get out of the military. I'm not attacking the armed forces whatsoever. I'm saying that their voluteered service should not also offer them a free higher education. I'm saying that the numerous benifits already offered to veterans and current soldiers are already more then satisfactory for their service.

And in regards to being their, I have been. Probably more then most given my job. I design the equipment that our armed forces use in combat to defend and protect the world. I design your weapons, your ballistic protection, your home's away from home. I don't do that at a desk. I do that in the field along side our soldiers so I can see what their needs are. If you are in the armed forces or have been recently you've probably seen me or someone like me. I have been their and this is the intellectual opinion I've formed. I do not think our forces deserve free school simply for their service. Our soldiers get rewarded enough for their services. Let me ask you this as you are a veteran, what teaches better; having to earn something or being given it? Do you think that our armed forces earned the right to a free ride? Do you think that shows the same qualities you all fought for to the world. You know, hard work and perseverance pays off and everyone is equal? Your basically being hypocritical saying you support freedom and the rights of all, while saying that GI's deserve more then everyone else.

I love Hakim and the way he handled it. Fantastic guy. The girl who said the trash talk and got an F reminds me of what was going on in College in the late 60's early 70's. They called vets "baby killers" and worse. I got my BS in Business, went Army and got a Masters in Systems on the GI Bill. Fairly certain that GI bill did it's job several times over by now. Great Program. Been working ever since. IT is possible that tax money being paid by veterans will be spent supporting the girl with the F when she can't find a job to support herself. Don't expect her to apologize or say thank you. There does seem to be a lot of intolerance out there. Unpardonable stupidity !

Ginger Holm

"I DO support, love and appreciate our military members, and I can honestly say that I don't know a single liberal that doesn't feel the same way."

REALLY!?! Do you not talk to other liberals about military? Because trashing the military men ad women is common place with liberals. In fact, we never even heard them say "I support the enlisted, just not what they do" until the bashing our our military started to make liberals look bad.

-------------------------------

Ginger, how funny. You're bashing liberals but by your post YOU are showing you, yourself, are THE ignoramous. I am sixty years old, was drafted in June 1972 , spent eight years on active duty and eighteen in the Guard/Reserve. BTW---I'm a Liberal.

The isolated instances in the article above are nothing compared to how our troops were treated in the late 60s/early 70s. By making such an ignorant post you show YOU are part of the problem, not the liberals you so rant against.

------------------------------------

RMM1784

The GI bill is not free education.

What it is RMM is part of the contract signed between the US government and the trooper. It is part of the benefit package.

2.31-are you saying that we should contract out our military service? How much would a defense contractor charge the taxpayers for this? It sounds like you are part of the defense contractor debacle that overinflates the costs for their benefits. That's what makes the defense of this country so expensive. It is called greed! Whether it be military benefits or defense contractor benefits.

This is only true at the liberal crap for brains bastions of Obama supporters.

RMM1784

Remember thats why you CHOSE to be in the military anyway....

CHOSE, dude I still have the letter that says....Com'on down. To me one of the greatest things about my service was I was protecting the rights/freedoms for ALL Americans, one of which is the freedom of speech/expression. YOU have the right to express yourself and YOU have the right to make yourself look like an idiot. Unfortunately, YOU, like many other, abuse that right.

As to your other post:

RMM1784

And in regards to being their, I have been. Probably more then most given my job.

Somehow I doubt it. But if your job does support the military I guess WE, the taxpayers, are paying YOUR wages. Ironic isn't it?????????

--------------------------------

Shaking my head-2479300

This is only true at the liberal crap for brains bastions of Obama supporters.

Oh look. Another village idiot.

RMM1784,

Tell me about my compensation. You have no clue. You can't put a price on an injury that causes you to lose a limb, or an injury that causes blackouts etc. Yes, you pay me for a service, and when I say this, please take that as all benefits are inclusive, but you don't and won't get to decide what I do with my money. That's my choice - remember I earned it. So I invested in my G.I. Bill so that I could get a return in on that investment and put myself through school. But you want to take that away from me because it "was at one time" tax payer money....got news for you, every thing we do is tax payer related. Oh, by the way, those weapons systems that you are designing...tax payer related. Should I cut your pay because I think you get paid to much to "observe" and then design and over-bill the government in the comfort of your damned office.

The college kids are weak and immature. Now you have veterans among them and they are intimidated because they have yet to accomplish anything yet let alone serve a great nation.

He got a 98 despite sustaining a traumatic brain injury. She got a F. Her parents should be the ones asking, why are "we" paying for her education? In those "damn socialist" European countries and in Israel where they have universal compulsory military service the pampered children of wealth don't ask that stupid question. Just another of the 1% worried about what she is paying for. (even though she isn't paying for it yet) Just like Mitt's boys"she has made different career choices". Scott Hakim thanks for your service.

RMM1784: The majority of the people who joined the military joined because they were outraged at what happened on 9/11/2001 (even if they joined the military in 2010), and had the gonads to stand behind that choice. There were also a LOT of military people who went off to war who did not intend to go into combat when they went in. They joined the Reserve component, or the National Guard and were activated. Many of them came home in a box - those were the lucky ones because there were others who came home in pieces but stayed alive. I watched a man come off a plane to be greeted by his wife and a baby he had never seen, and would never hold because his arms and legs had been blown off by an IED. They leaned him back a bit and balanced that baby on his chest. I have heard of men who were uninjured physically, but who had brain injuries from the concussion of the explosions - who were told that it was not a combat injury and they said it was a pre-existing condition! As for their pay while in, for someone even in combat to make equivalent to minimum wage, they have to be ranked at least as an E5. I guess you don't realize that military families are often on Food Stamps and have to have other government assistance. The only ones who are well compensated are the officers. It's obvious you've never been in (or for that matter, near) the military.

I would wager that most if not all of those expressing disapproval of veterans attending college on the G.I.Bill, are the offspring of those who ran off to Canada, or maybe they're just totally freaking ignorant, inconsiderate and self centered, legends in their own minds. Boo, hissss!

She has got some Damn nerve I tell you. When the terrorist's come into that town, we may want to show them where she lives. And they (Terrorist's) will be coming. Because Obumma is inviting them to the Dirty white house!! I'm for one am glad she got an "F"> You get what you earn,Biotch! As as Veteran I realish the thought of meeting some young college punk that says that around me.

Why should solders be forced to protect bimbo mouthpieces like that in college? Because they fight to protect everyone's rights, and not just the few ignorant bimbos, etc., in college. And just what has that college bimbo contributed or offered up to our society besides her "F" grade mid-term exam?? Some contribution!?!? LOL!!

We had these anti military idiots on campus when I was in ROTC in the early 80s. While they did do their little protests and snide remarks to the ROTC students, I ignored them. When one of the ROTC students did a survey about it among her classmates for one of her other classes, my response got noticed up the chain of command. When asked if it bothered me, I replied that I refused to be bothered by the opinions of people who are so cowardly that it takes 5 of them to muster the courage to make a snide remark behind my back, or 15 of them to do so to my face. The officers and NCOs from the ROTC detachment found the sentiment hysterical. Since the morons got their jollies by being a bit more aggressive with the female cadets (That shows just how brave they were doesn't it?) I made it a point to escort as many of them as possible from the ROTC building to their next class. With my BDU sleeves rolled up skin tight around my upper arms causing the veins to bulge, and my spit shined jump boots, there wasn't a protestor on the campus that didn't get out of my way.

BTW for those who don't believe veterans deserve their benefits, how many of you still get migraine headaches from a job related accident 27 years ago that you couldn't file a workmen's comp claim for? How many of you walk with a limp when the temps are under 60, and were told you look like you have arthritis on your knees from an on the job incident from when you were 22? I DO. The sum total of the veterans' benefits that I have received have included an annual blood test the last couple of years and they want me to come in for a physical. I do get a prescription for blood pressure meds once a year, but I buy them from Walmart because Walmart is cheaper than the VA. Except for the last 3 years, I haven't accepted a thing in benefits.

When you have the intestinal fortitude to write a blank check to Uncle Sam for an amount up to and including your life, you can begin to talk about what these young men and women go through and deserve. I missed my first wedding anniversary, 7 months of the first year of my daughters life, my (now ex) wife's birthday multiple times, spent nights sleeping on the aluminum ramp of an armored personnel carrier because I wasn't going to get more than 4 hours anyway, so why bother with a sleeping bag, and on and on. This was just being stationed in COLORADO in a combat arms unit. Some of the guys were gone even more.

As for them being paid too much. I would bet that on an hourly rate, with overtime, they aren't making much more than minimum wage. Take that monthly salary and divide it by 454 to get their hourly rate before overtime. You'll find that $2000 a month salary doesn't amount to much then. BTW 454 is 12 hours a day times 30 days plus .5 the hourly rate for the 188 hours of overtime that they would be paid if they worked at a regular job. They don't look very overpaid now do they?

Burning Brightly...

Huh...didn't know killing thousands of civilians was "serving a great country"

IAMWHITEWOLF---> Critical reading could go a long way for you. I actually agreed with you about he GI bill having nothing to do with free education. Also, I'm at a loss as to how you didn't CHOSE to be in the military. We haven't had a draft or conscription since veitnam so anyone in the military today CHOSES to be there.

Again to all those thinking I'm talking about your GI funds, I am clearly not. I am talking about the free education which is a completely different benefit from the GI bill which I already CLEARLY agreed was your SAVINGS from your salary given to you through your service.

Double Jepordy---> Actually I have a real big clue. You should know that veterans injured in combat get free or highly discounted health insurance to deal with these issues. What's the cost of a lost limb, mental trauma, or black outs? Depends. Are you asking for a physical cost, which would be whatever the doctors and insurance charge, or are you talking about the mental cost, which can be related to any job where there is a possiblity of losing a limb or being damaged such as a construction worker or a machine shop worker or a local COP or the countless other ocupations where the same stresses and outcomes are are real possibilities? I can already see your answer to this, "well they aren't defending their country so its not the same" and my question is how not? The same loses can still be felt and the same stresses can still cripple. The difference is those other people don't feel entitled to anything.

The real fact is anyone in the military is well taken care of. Ask any veitnam veteran. Actually most probably won't even talk to you because they see you as entitlists who fought a fake war for profit. That is also a fact. Either way ask them what "benifits" they got for their services. I bet maybe then you'll open your eyes.

Look you don't have to like what I say. Honestly I do not care if you do. I have given nothing but real facts that you are free to look up at your leisure. None of you even argued against them. You picked out tiny minute facts that you misread or misinterpreted and claimed that made anything I said untrue. It did not. If you have any real argument that explains why the simple act of doing a job you signed up to do and, as we all seem to agree, are fairly compensated for, should get you a free education paid for by the taxes taken from the people, well I'm all game.

And in answer to the comment about my occupation. Yes my pay is taken from tax payer money as well, but no one paid for me to get any education, and I pay taxes as well. No one paid for anything ever for me. I worked for what I have and the position I'm in. I paid for college from my own pocket and am still paying for it. I worked a job to pay my way just the same as Army Infantry Private First Class is a job. I pay for my own health care, my own home, my own clothes, my own everything. If I am injured or maimed at work no one will pay for me to get treated but me. I don't expect that because I do my job others should give me anything. And neither do any of the other people who have worked to their positions. Giving away a free education is a huge kick in the balls to all those other people who worked hard to get theirs. Now part of the money that could be going towards building up infrastructure at home, bringing internet to rural areas, feeding people in real need, and basically money that could do a lot of domestic good, is given to some guy or girl for doing their job, that they signed up to do knowing full well the risk. I'm supposed to just stand aside while "a true american hero" makes a mockery out of my struggle.

To RMM1784

The 99% live in saftety due to the fact that the true 1% serve this country and protect it against all enemies foriegn and domestic. While I do not agree with what you say, I did sacrifice 4 years of my life protecting your right to say it. I was accepted to schools and could have gone right away, but I decided that service to my country was more important. As for making a decent wage that is ridiculous, take the total amount and spread it over 24 hours a day 7 days a week 365 and it averages out to approximately 2.50 and hour for the average lower enlisted man/woman...I knew of officers with 3 children that were on WIC and trying to make ends meet. See the military only allots you money for 2 children and anything over is up to the individual unlike in the "Real" world that says you can have as many as you want and collect more money for each child.

The American service man/woman deserves more. The Majority aren't in it for the money they do it because they know if they don't no one else will

RMM = @!$%#. When you enlist you have a contract with the government. Part of that is free medical for the rest of your life and the G.I. Bill. You in turn give the government a blank check to do with you as it wants. I chose the military and am now 100% disabled with something that I would have had anyway, but since it started in the service it is service-connected. Between my disability, SS and my wife's SS we receive $74,000 a year tax free plus we both have free medical for life. I only have to pay $65 a month for her supplemental until she turns 65. I also have a disability exemption on real estate tax on my house. I have free lifetime fishing and hunting privileges. I can go to Disney World for $99 for 4 days even though I don't live in Florida. Lowe's, Home Depot and other businesses give me a 10% discount. If you pay taxes, you are supporting me. By my 81st birthday the government will have given me over $1,000,000. I love it. @!$%# everyone, I got mine.

redvirginia

This is the left wing anti-military Obamanation. Left wing professors brainwashing students, students demanding to remove military recruiting boots in college, this is all part of the left agenda, the people that represent Obama. One more reason why the Military do not support Obama and Democrats. This is why Democrats want to suppress the military vote.

Ah, and you would be from Virginia...right? The state with the billboards threatening violent insurrection when the President is reelected? At this point it would only seem to be conspiracy to commit treason. I guess y'all are waiting for the reelection to actually commit full blown treason. Should I really be taking a person from that states seriously?

BrianB-2641029

First, I'm a vet, served in the navy. But I do think most marines and grunts are morons. Its also a mercenary army since 9/11.

Brian, thank you for your service. That said, you are an idiot. Obviously you have absolutely no idea what OEF/OIF is all about for service members. Clearly you have no clue what so ever what multiple deployments do to service members and family members. You have absolutely no idea what price this country will be paying for years. I'm sure glad you life is so stable and filled with contentment. And I don't think I'd worry about serving if invaded...I doubt you'd be asked.

American Socialist, this is an amazing country. Our military implements a foreign policy that is essential to our country's, and all modern countries' economic strength. We protect the waterways, the oil fields, the coastlines, undersea cables, satellites, the skies... it's fantastic, really. As much bad news as you see, the bad news that is averted is incalculable. The globe, from China to Canada, even the Middle East, believe it or not, is in a pax Romana of sorts thanks to tireless US foreign policy, some of which hinges on the threat of war, for better or worse.

When you look at all the good the US does, preventing and treating AIDs in Africa, building new vaccines and biotechnology for the globe, leading the way to human rights in places like Myanmar/Burma, educating the leaders of the 21st century at Harvard and Stanford.

This is a country with values and ideals worth dying for. We lead the way, and we draw the criticism of naysayers like you. Screw the mistakes and the blunders, let's learn from them, dust off, and take this awesome nation forward and continue to do great things!

The burdens which a Soldier bears is not an easy one. It has been said, they are heroes when we have great need, dying to protect. But then demons and monsters when we have no further use of them. Turning our backs on those who died, become disabled or return home carrying our debts to them. Most people don't like reminders of what they cannot ever payback. Especially if it involves another suffering.

Not all veterans serve in the Middle East, even those who did are trying to stop more attacks on American soil. Taking the fight abroad to assure those living here can go about their lives as normally as possible. Yet all vets are targeted by those who blame our involvement in the ongoing war there. How easy it is to forget, all those who died in other generations to allow us to live with the freedoms we now have.

It is always easy to take for granted what another has paid the price for so you can enjoy.We all do that in life. Only until one loses something and suffers the lack of it, do they truly start to appreciate just how much they had. Often never getting it back again without paying a huge price, if that were even possible.

Heroes or demons? Brothers and sisters willing to stand as guards on the watch towers of Freedom and Liberties. Deserving of our respect, absolutely! which we can show by doing our part to keep Freedom's flame burning bright on the home front.Stay active by choosing good men and women to lead our country and using your voting rights. Don't just complain about what is wrong in our country, step up and do something. Everyone of us can help make a difference. And if one doesn't have something nice to say to a veteran, then keep quiet.You already have been benefited by their sacrifice. You are in their debt. Your freedoms come at the blood of countless valiant good and precious lives. Go contribute something of worth to this world. It will be a novel concept to so many no doubt.

This story revived some old memories for me. I was never in Viet Nam. I was a young infantry soldier out of training (Ft Polk, LA) enroute to my first overseas permanent party in West Germany, 1975. Men and women dressed in white robes and sandals with peace signs yelling at me "Baby Killers" at the airports. I had the Original GI Bill but never had a chance to use it. I'm happy for service men and women building a new future after their discharge.

RMM- While I understand some of what you are saying, as a military wife, I completely disagree with some of it as well. I'm not sure where you've come up with the idea that those in the military make a lot of money. My husband's salary is far less than what I received as a first year teacher. If we were to take into account the hours that he works monthly and divide his pay, he would be receiving much less than minimum wage. We have had to learn how to get by on the half the pay that we were used to, and if you know how much teachers get paid, it's not very much either. Yes, my husband chose to sign up for the military, but as part of that, we knew we would be getting the G.I. Bill. It's part of his contract. So please compare it to someone who signs up with a company knowing that at the end of 5 years, they would receive a bonus. That's what the G.I. Bill is to us, a bonus. My husband already has a degree, but we would like to use the G.I. Bill to help him get a Masters degree so that he can get a better job when he gets out of the military. I don't see the G.I. Bill as that much different than perks people can get through other jobs. It is a perk, and a very important one for us. Just like the medical insurance is a perk for us and another part of his contract.

I took advantage of my military benefit by getting an AA while on active duty, then having the VA pay for my BA after service. I know it was costly about 40K for the BA, and I do worry about that. But more than that is the vast number of drop outs, people that were clearly not college material being admitted to these schools, that are only looking for the government money. This is killer expensive. We need to get a handle on that problem. Fine the schools that have excessive failure and dropout rates or drop them from the program. My University by the way offered steep discounts and free books, for veterans along with waiving most fees. Even so they had a large number of drop outs as well.

RMM1784,

When I first went in, we weren't paid that well. I was making less than 20000.00 a year. I lived in a barracks room with 3 other Marines. I ate at the chow hall. Yes that was well taken care of. Sounds like college a little right? Yes my medical care was good then, today it's not so good. Tomorrow it's going to get worse. Tricare rates are going up. I paid for my dependents medical and dental insurance while I was in. My wife was a Navy veteran and her take home pay helped to offset costs. Then she got out because of the Clinton draw down. No biggie. She found two part time jobs, one to pay for daycare while she while she worked - and the other to help pay bills.

Now to your comment:

Double Jepordy---> Actually I have a real big clue. You should know that veterans injured in combat get free or highly discounted health insurance to deal with these issues.

So what's you're point...if you get injured on the job as a civilian...what do you have: Long Term, Short Term Disability and Workers Comp. Sounds about right. Same thing right - one of many benefits you receive unless you're a consultant.

What's the cost of a lost limb, mental trauma, or black outs? Depends. Are you asking for a physical cost, which would be whatever the doctors and insurance charge, or are you talking about the mental cost, which can be related to any job where there is a possiblity of losing a limb or being damaged such as a construction worker or a machine shop worker or a local COP or the countless other ocupations where the same stresses and outcomes are are real possibilities? I can already see your answer to this, "well they aren't defending their country so its not the same" and my question is how not? The same loses can still be felt and the same stresses can still cripple. The difference is those other people don't feel entitled to anything.

Again refer to my first point and then take into account the the next. Initially, we went to war against a known enemy, al-Qaeda, in Afghanistan. Remember, the one who attacked our country. What we didn't ask for was to fight a second war in Iraq. A Republican War that was supposed to be about WMD's, but instead was really about oil rights. No we don't feel entitled - we are entitle because politicians don't have their @!$%# together. Those that were sent fight a false war deserve more than just being compensated, they deserve some damned good answers. They deserve to be taken care of because they were injured or killed because of a lie.

The real fact is anyone in the military is well taken care of. Ask any veitnam veteran. Actually most probably won't even talk to you because they see you as entitlists who fought a fake war for profit. That is also a fact. Either way ask them what "benifits" they got for their services. I bet maybe then you'll open your eyes.

Well that's where you're wrong, my pop is a Vietnam Era Veteran, and Cold War Veteran and Gulf War Veteran. My currently supervisor is a Vietnam War Veteran. Both would tell you the same, they don't view us as people who believe we are entitled...the scenario is different, the war is different and this country never had to fight on two separate fronts at the same damned time. We volunteered for one war...we didn't volunteer for a bullsh** war!

Look you don't have to like what I say. Honestly I do not care if you do. I have given nothing but real facts that you are free to look up at your leisure. None of you even argued against them. You picked out tiny minute facts that you misread or misinterpreted and claimed that made anything I said untrue. It did not. If you have any real argument that explains why the simple act of doing a job you signed up to do and, as we all seem to agree, are fairly compensated for, should get you a free education paid for by the taxes taken from the people, well I'm all game.

Stop being a bullsh** artist like Romney. Again, yes we are paid by the taxpayer...but what we do with that money after the fact has nothing to do with the taxpayer. Again as I said, I paid taxes, Federal and State, while I was in the military, every year. So guess, what? I paid myself as well. What I choose to do with my money is what I choose to do...I invested my "earned" money into my G.I. Bill. $1200.00 dollars worth. You know what, I got a great return on my investment.

And in answer to the comment about my occupation. Yes my pay is taken from tax payer money as well, but no one paid for me to get any education, and I pay taxes as well. No one paid for anything ever for me. I worked for what I have and the position I'm in. I paid for college from my own pocket and am still paying for it.

So no student loans? No Pell Grant? No personal Loans? I find that remarkably amazing....unless you are from a rich family or you were extremely well compensated during your time in college. Because that's a tough feet for anyone these days.

I worked a job to pay my way just the same as Army Infantry Private First Class is a job. I pay for my own health care, my own home, my own clothes, my own everything. If I am injured or maimed at work no one will pay for me to get treated but me. I don't expect that because I do my job others should give me anything.

Back to what I said...you must get paid very well for what you do. But I'm surprised to hear that you pay for everything yourself...and I take that to mean that you must be a private consultant, with a billable rate at $300.00+/hr. What that means to the average person that's not familiar with how consultants are paid, consultants include health care, dental care, business and liability insurance, expenses, and per-diem in their overall hourly rate. So yes you may pay for it all...but in reality...it's all been calculated in your contract and truth be told...the taxpayer actually pays for it all. If this is not the case and you do work for a company...then you have refused all benefits from your company, doubtful.

And neither do any of the other people who have worked to their positions. Giving away a free education is a huge kick in the balls to all those other people who worked hard to get theirs.

No what's a hugh kick in the balls is listening to a jack ass like you - trying to incite hate and discontent because you're jealous. That's what this is all about. We, meaning those who accepted the opportunity to serve, chose to invest some of our earnings so that we could get the G.I. Bill and better our lives.

Now part of the money that could be going towards building up infrastructure at home, bringing internet to rural areas, feeding people in real need, and basically money that could do a lot of domestic good, is given to some guy or girl for doing their job, that they signed up to do knowing full well the risk.

Well we could have done all of that and more had we not gone to war in Iraq. It was a war that did not need fighting. You're right, we could have used that money to pay for infrastructure or feeding people in need or any other domestic item you can think of. Trust me, the G.I. Bill is just a very small part of the Defense pie...and those that consult or make the tools of war...make a very huge chunk of that pie.

I'm supposed to just stand aside while "a true american hero" makes a mockery out of my struggle.

You're self-righteous attitute is what made a mockery of your struggle...so stand aside and enjoy view as I use my G.I. Bill to get my education. How's that for a kick in the balls!

This is the left wing anti-military Obamanation.

Which party just blocked Veterans Job Corp Bill? The GOP! Which party blocked the bill that would allow our military to have a abortion if raped. The GOP Which party blocked the bill to help homeless veterans? The GOP

RMM

“to all those thinking I'm talking about your GI funds, I am clearly not.”

What free education? Other than the GI bill, which you pay into, there isn’t anything free. Training? Most civilian jobs provide training that doesn’t require you to pay. Give me specific examples of a free education. If you can’t, stop talking about it.

“You should know that veterans injured in combat get free or highly discounted health insurance to deal with these issues.

Uh, no. Veterans injured in combat are most often, if serious enough, tossed to side of the road, quietly discharged and are never thought of again. If they require continued treatment, it’s an uphill battle with VA and disability is a joke, to be polite. Ahh, but civilians don’t have workman’s comp to compensate them when injured on the job and they are most assuredly are fired when injured horrifically enough. How is that an entitlement? To want your employer to cover a medical treatment suffered on the job is not an entitlement at all.

Vietnam veterans, if you gave a dime to ask, would tell you their “retirements” and “veteran’s benefits” are a pittance. I have two Vietnam vets in my family and neither was well taken care of. One receieved 20% disability and he was hit with Agent Orange. 20%???? This is an eye opener all right, but not for the reasons you’re trying to peddle. In fact, veterans are SO WELL taken care of over half a million end up homeless.

(Read a little.)

You pay your own way? Now you’re just making jokes! Your pay is taken from tax payer money. So your money for your own health care, your own home, your own clothing, your own everything is REALLY paid for by the tax payers. LIKE ME.

Get off your soap box and start producing FACTS. Quit talking to your mailman.

rmm1784

Yes some of the troops are paid good for what they do many are not. an E-1 gets $1,491 a month an E-2 gets 1,671.30 a month an E-3 makes 1757.40 an E-4 makes 2157.30 an E-5 makes 2662.20 a month this is an average of what most of our troops in Army, Air force, Marines, and Navy get paid on average most of our troops fall in theses ranks. Now Housing is dependant on what area your in. If you have a family and want to live on post you have about 6-9 months to wait. That is why they give you a housing allowance. Now I know several family's in our Military housing area that have 4 kids and his rank is an E-4 that is not an easy thing but they do it what He was making in the Civilian sector as a electrician was 60K a year but due to the housing crash his work became very sporadic. So he joined after his savings were gone instead of taking unemployment. He is now 40 and is using the G.I. bill to further his education. That is not free it is part of what he was given for signing on.

Here is some thing For you to think about Spouses in the military have an unemployment rate of 23-25% and that is just for the ones that haven't given up looking for work. I am blessed I have picked a field that works great when you have to look for a new job every 3 years thousands of miles from where you were living before. However Some fields require to be certified for that state to work their so they Have to get that certificate that can cost hundreds. But I don't have to worry about that.

My wife is an E-7 She wakes up at 300 does PT then works from 0400-1750 then she drives home she does this 5 days a week. She gets paid good with her incentive pay (for her MO) she gets 48,000 a year My pay adds 36-43K a year to that. That sounds great doesn't it? however if she was working in the privet sector her pay would be 130K a year and have better hours and my pay would also improve because I could better establish myself in a job.

SO you see it is not that simple their are prose and cons to all jobs which is better is for the individual to choose.

And Yes if your in a Combat area you get good pay and you work 18 hour days some times more.

well is just that the people are not greatfull for you serving in the military,is just that alot people feel that these wars are for others to get rich that you were not fighting for our liberties there,i for one think that the eople in uniforme deserve free benefits,for going there in those terrible places,the wars snce 9/11 has been nothing but hoax,i & my family thank you for serving our country thats being control by the super rich.please tried to understand that the people on top are dividing our country.

Answers--->

1) All veterans ARE given a FREE EDUCATION in the form of government bonds and tax write offs which is the issue at hand. I know this as fact because, a) I have many military friends using this benifit currently, b) I read the law that was signed by the president to make this so, and c) that is what this article that we are all commenting on corraberated and what the main issue at hand is. You may use your GI funds, but you do not have to. This is a fact and I'd happily post the link that proves this further for all you lazy a$$es that don't want to look it up but MSN will not let me post links. If you need help gettingthis benefit I will be more then happy to get you taken care of as there is absolutely nothing that me not liking it as a law will do to change it. Please stop proving the stigma that free education is wasted on veterans by not educating yourself on these things.

2) I resepect your sacrifices as service members and I applaud everyone who proudly wears the uniform, however, YOU are not protecting MY or ANY AMERICAN'S freedoms anywhere. Your service does nothing to support my freedom of speech because in saying that you would also have to say there was a threat to that right from one of these countries WE invaded. There wasn't. Not a single one was aggressively trying to strip America of any right. So you did NOTHING to protect MY rights. What you did do is attempt to promote democracy in an oil rich region where trade would be crucial. You fought for a foreign nations rights NOT mine. There is a big difference in this fact. In WW1 and WW2 they actually did fight against a potential threat to American freedoms because those we fought against would have taken them from us. None of these Arab nations gave a flying F*** about us before we started attacking them and working them for our benefit during the Cold War, which is also where the Taliban came to power, FROM our own doing, so they could fight Russia for us. Were you to make that comment true, that you were defending MY, or any other AMERICANS freedoms, you would be doing that right here at home against real threats to this nation, for example the Mexican drug cartels embroiling our borders or the corperations buying out our leaders so we smaller plebians no longer have a view that matters. What you DO protect is those corperations by protecting trade routes, shipping lines oil refineries, and the military bases we tossed all over the globe to have a military presence and enforce OUR "free trade" "agreements" around the world. Don't dare try to use the excuse that you are protecting MY freedoms and that's why you chose to serve. Were that the case and you wanted truly to serve your country you would of gone to one of our many military academies such as West Point instead of enlisting because that would of shown you were serious about our protection. Instead you enlisted. And I'm not here to judge because many of my closest friends are veterans or currently enlisted, but there stories are all the same. They did it as a job opportunity after highschool because they weren't sure what to do with themselves and thought serving their country was more respectable then flipping burgers until they figured it out. Serving their country was a by-product that they use to validate what they did during their enlistment. It was almost never the reason they enlisted. And after 9/11 many people WERE angry and I agree with that, BUT who were they angry with? They needed a spot to throw their contention. Input WMD's in Iraq and BOOM now we have a source. Did you find anything there? Nope. Found a lot of oil and gold we took back home though. So we attacked an entire nation on a lie because we were angry. Was Osama in Afghanastan? No. So we destabalized an entire region for what? A trade route and a military base close to Iran where we can land our drones. Get your facts straight before you verbally spar with me.

3) Read Laurence Grossmans earlier comment and you will understand that your benefits do not end after your service does. You are given these beneits for LIFE. If you are injured on the battelfield you are taken care of for the rest of your life. To put that in perspective, if you are injured in a machine shop you are only compensated for the cost of fixing what was injured and if you can't still work you are laid off to fend for yourself. We take care of our troops and I completely and 100% agree that they should be covered for life. This is just yet another example of the benefit you get as a veteran or enlisted military person.

4) While you can say what you will about the pay rate and grades of the military, that isn't the complete package. Along with your pay you are given a housing premium, health care for you and all of your dependents, a life insurance plan should you not make it back safe so that your family is taken care of, free food if depolyed, a higher wage if deployed, cheaper food on base then typical local prices, clothes, and a job which if not deployed basically amounts to working out and going through drills or standing guard somewhere in most cases (I'm aware there are other jobs but lets be honest you do NOT work 24 - 365). You are given all of those other things as well as training that can be used in the real world to find a job on TOP of your pay. So you still get all of that money promised to you AND you get all those other goodies. This is the benefit package that goes with your job that isn't paid for by you through subtractions from your pay. The only subtraction is the GI bill which is basically a savings acoount that you can't touch until you a re dischaged. So that money you make a month you do not even need to use for living expenses and health care. That is yours to do with as you please and really everything else is already taken care of so you can either save it or go out and party or whatever you CHOSE to do.

The difference being that those college kids you seem to think are against you have to pay for their own health care, their own living expenses, their own clothes, and their own tuition, to name a few, and they did it while working their asses off here at home making the same amount most times a month as a soldier. Do you know how much the average waiter makes? $2.13 an hour plus tips which turns into $500 a week if their lucky. Thats $2000 a month. From that amount they must pay for all of that above mention stuff including tuition fees. The average "unskilled"(that means no college degree) worker can expect to make on average $30,000 a year, $2500 a month without taxes or insurance premiums taken into account. You realize that means they live with almost nothing along with a negative balance on their bank statement if they chose to go to school, right? Where as a veteran makes around as much, has full benefits, a home, AND can now attend college free of charge. You really think veterans deserve that as well? Especially if you talk to older ones and they tell you that they joined the military to PAY for school and now they have to watch the younger generation get what they busted their asses for and risked their lives to attain FOR FREE! This is the very definition of an ENTITLEMENT.

5) The VA has to turn down some people because there simply isn't enough money to treat all of them. There are several reasons for this actually. The funds being used for on-going wars that weren't paid for are being sucked dry, the funds that we do have are being used in inefficient ways by people taking advantage of the ongoing war theater, the benefits being paid out to thousands of soldiers that came back with PTSD (which I agree should be done because these poor boys thought they were doing something good for their country but found out the hard way that they were fighting an immoral war and their brains snapped because they couldn't justify their actions), the free college being given away to all veterans, the misuse of equipment, the lack of oversight concerning the use of force, the humanitarian aide being gifted out as an apology for making millions homeless across the globe, and many more reasons. The VA just can't keep up while its funds are syphoned off to protect the soldiers still in combat.

6) As I've said before, I support our troops. It is my job and my desire. I do not support a hand out that gives them an unfair advantage after they return. They are soldiers... America's best... Right? Why do they need an education given to them when they have already shown that they can and will FIGHT for things? You hobble the entire system and cripple the whole educational process by doing this. It not only promotes the military industrial complex because it makes being a soldier seem like a great way to earn a diploma free of charge, but it also strengthens the militaries grip on an American society that has been plagued by war for the last century and a half.

7) Regardless of my job title I do pay an insurance premium, I do pay for my own benefits, I do pay for my own home, I do pay my way in society. I earned every bit of what I have and fought just as hard to get it. If anything were given to me I wouldn't respect it. No one can respect something everyone else has to earn given to them for free. This is the reason why most lottery mega millions winners have nothing to show for it a few years later. They didn't earn it so they had no respect for it. All I'm saying is it would do these soldiers more good to set up a savings plan (like the GI bill was originally meant to be) that sets aside money for school while enlisted that they can then use for school afterwards. Did that staff sargent GIVE you what it took to pass hell week? No. You had to fight to finish and when you were done you felt pride because of your accomplishment. Why should you be given a free ride? What pride would you feel about something given for free?

I don't know what problems people have with the VA My father in-law has no problems getting medical treatment at all He actually likes his military retirement medical even if it costs a little more.

RMM-2.60- I agree with the first statement on item 5. Now why is there a problem. Could it be the GOP? They want to continue to be at war, but are not responsible enough to pay for their debacle. Don't blame to the military or veterans for this. Blame the administration and congress who put us there. If memory serves me right, it was all the GOP in 2001-2006. They are suppose to be fiscal hawks? They only want to take care of the few, the proud, the greedy! Ask Cheney what was is role at Haliburton was before being elected as VP. They only take care of themselves and the hell with everyone else!! That needs to stop!!!

RMM1784, I don't know weather to laugh at the nonsense your saying or cry for you because of your blind ignorance. Vets don't get a "Free Education". Free education implies that a person doesn't give out anything in order to attend school. Vet pay into their GI Bill account out of their own pocket and as for them not having to use that money; your right, however when a vet uses money from another program, inorder to attend college, that amount is deducted from their GI Bill funds: there is NO double dipping allowed! Free Benefits that Service Members recieve has been mentioned; well guess what, those benefits are free only for the service member and not their family members. Also, the reason the military can offer those benefits for free is because the service member doesn't recieve a any extra money as part of their salary to pay for any optional Benefits packages as you do. The Veterans that attend the Schools of Higher Learning earned the right to attend theses schools and NOBODY GAVE IT TO THEM FOR FREE. They earned it through hard work, self-sacrafice and the money they that set aside out of their own pockets earned by doing a job that only 13 percent of the entire population of this country has done; the veterans that have served and those that are currently serving in the Armed Forces of the United States of America.

rcminze---> No I'm afraid you are wrong. Again the GI Fund is equivalent to a 401K if you were to work at any other company. It is yours regardless of what other benifits you get. They can't take it away because it is garnished through their own wages as you've agreed. The specific education benefit, if you are curious, is a seperate package that all our war fighters are offered and you can find the all information on it and how to collect on it from any of our military websites. This is an VA benefit and yes is attached to the GI bill, but does not affect your total savings as of the signing into LAW of the post 9/11 GI Bill. What this does is give ex military and currently enlisted up to $47,500 yearly for tuition, books, fees, and living expenses while attending school. This amount is seperate from any wages they may have accrued and had made as partial contributions to their personal GI Fund. If they are currently enlisted then their tuition is covered and all those other expenses already are. Any veteran or enlisted member of the military is eligible for this benefit if they served at least 90 days in the military consecutively. And don't kid yourself to think that any contributions made from a soldiers pay in the typical 3 year enlistment contract will ever equal that $47,500 a year. Oh and these benefits ARE partially transferable to spouses, just not completely. They transfer in the form of cohabitation as well. That being said I can say with confidence you should do research on the topic before making comments. The bottom line is that money doesn't grow on trees. Who do you think is fronting that educational bill? We all are... Again.

You made a comment about a double dip, This is exactly what using tax dollars to pay for a veterans education IS. We already pay out the a$$ to train them, equip them, house them, keep them healthy, and transport them. We paid to educate them HOW to be a soldier as that was the job THEY applied to... Now we have to pay for them to be a teacher or engineer too? No one has a problem with taking care of our soldiers, me least of all, but I don't agree with taking our already burdened tax dollars and giving away to them for ANOTHER education when we already paid to teach them once (how to be a soldier) and there are so many others and other places that could really use it at this time. We take care of our warriors very well (Go and compare it to any other nation in the world) as I've already noted several times in this thread. The American public has paid their respects. We shouldn't have to pay twice.

It could possibly be just resentment at the full ride (not saying it's not deserved, just saying that it's a possible catalyst). It's a shame that anyone would begrudge someone a college scholarship after they've served to protect our country, but as we know, Americans are all very me-me-me, what can *I* get.

@ Melanie.... I just wonder if say, a football player who gets a "full ride" scholarship is met with the same disdain and insults as a vet. I've heard that some of them say they couldn't care less about getting an education, they just want to make it to the NFL. Talk about a stepping stone. Those are the ones who disgust me.

wiseone, you totally went where I wanted to go. I could not have said it better.

Wiseone, I would much rather support a veteran than a football player, but sadly, college sports brings in A LOT of revenue for the school. Talk about screwed up priorities!

Count me as another super liberal socialist who hates war but has the utmost respect for veterans. I live in a city full of homeless veterans and it makes me sick the way they are treated after fighting for their country. But some good things are happening! An old retirement home next to my house is being renovated to be a veterans home and I couldn't be prouder to live next to something like that.

I too am a Veteran that went to college on Vietnam Vet GI Bill. I will say I never encountered any anti-military feelings where I went and I also didn't miss any classes. I can say I had some classes where I suspect the classmates were either going on college loan or mom and dad were paying, and their little Susie or Robbie were skipping class more than attending. I have no idea if they passed these classes or not.

I think it's more these kids are regurgitating opinions they've heard from people they respect, like their parents, social groups, or role models. They don't know enough to have formed opinions based on experience, so they adopt what they've heard.

Young people desperately need to feel respected by others and the shortcut to that is to fall in with what they think is the prevailing viewpoint of their group. Putting down someone else is the easiest way to make yourself superior, which I suspect is what the girl in this article was really doing, although I doubt she knew that.

well said Melanie

Melanie-1631910

It could possibly be just resentment at the full ride (not saying it's not deserved, just saying that it's a possible catalyst).

I served with the 3rd Marines in Quang Tri and Thua Thien Provinces of Vietnam in 68 & 69. When I returned home and started in college in 1971, I ran into the same remarks from the kids that were going to school on mom &dad's dime so that they could avoid the draft. I was called "Murderer" and "baby Killer" more than few times by these wonderful kids you describe. Are they jealous that someone is getting something that they didn't because they didn't do what this person did? Or, is it just some more of the Me, Me, Me, that they have been taught that they deserve.

The best thing I ever did was join the Marine Corps. When I returned, I had the discipline to do what it took to go to college. In my freshman year, we were all told the famous "Shake hands with the man on your Left and shake hands with the man on your right. Next year 2 of you won't be here." Strangely enough, the Vets I knew were not part of the "two" that weren't there next year. I graduated in 3 1/2 years with 2 degrees in Engineering (Electrical and Mechanical) from Duke. There were many kids that were "smarter" than me, but none that worked any harder. That is why I graduated and many of the "really smart" kids flunked out or went on the 6 or 7 year plan. One's knuckles do not have to drag the ground in order to be qualified for military service.

@ Melanie said .... "I just wonder if say, a football player who gets a "full ride" scholarship is met with the same disdain and insults as a vet. I've heard that some of them say they couldn't care less about getting an education, they just want to make it to the NFL. Talk about a stepping stone. Those are the ones who disgust me."

I went to a major football college for my degree. I remember my first year, sitting an a required Literature class, taking a test and one of the school's football players sitting next to me leaned over and wanted me to make it so he could see the answers on my test and copy them. Not being a big football nut, I covered my paper to ensure he could not copy from me. He was very obnoxious over my action and I was kind of concerned for my safety walking out of the class. Long story short: I made an "A" in the class and I hope he flunked if he couldn't do the work on his own.

Marie A.

I agree with your statement - it's sounds a lot like Romney...ME FIRST, LOOK AT ME, BIG BAD CEO. Avoid the Draft. Go to France. Then want to be Commander in Chief. Not only no, but hell no. I'm a U.S. Marine and I have more respect for Obama now than I ever had for Bush. Obama at least has an excuse as to why he didn't go to war in Vietnam...he was a kid. Romney...no he was dabbling in the "French Pastry" if you catch my drift! Remember this slogan - "Obama got Osama - and Romney would not have moved heaven and earth to find the man that kill our people." - Semper Fidelis!

OBAMA/BIDEN 2012

Chris-382117,

Perhaps you might explain the difference to Melanie-1631910's "full ride" between the current Veterans Education Bill, and our previous Vietnam GI Bill (I was living in my car, working nights at a Service Station (Full Service), and going to College in the daytime (18 credits per semester), and joined (very unpopular) ROTC just to have money for food, clothes, etc.).

By the way it was not so much wearing a Dress Uniform (required for travel) and having things thrown at us while the Police did nothing, spit on, name calling, etc. that hurt so much; it was getting on the Pan Am Flight to go home and told to get to the back of the aircraft that hurt more (I had a reserved window seat over the wings).

And yes, during College I heard the same baloney, about why should I get those "Entitlements" that we pay for, with my response being, Do you pay Taxes I did while Serving in the US Military and getting paid below minimum wages, and they are NOT Entitlements like you being on Public Assistance, I EARNED these Benefits that you did not.

As far as making this a Demoncrap Issue as Anti US Military and Anti US Military Veteran, you can see this at:

Thousands of female veterans are coming home: Is the US ready to welcome them?

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/10/12/14373249-thousands-of-female-veterans-are-coming-home-is-the-us-ready-to-welcome-them

This resentment by the 92% of US Citizens that have Never Served will get worse as President Obama as Commander In Chief Ordered the current Reduction In Forces of 90,000 US Military Personnel, many to remain competitive for promotions have more Experience, Qualifications, Education, Certifications, etc. than those US Civilians coming out of High School or College, as well as those currently in the US Work Forces, so these RIF'ed US Military will displace all the lesser qualified US Civilians from their current Jobs. President Obama also dumped on Unemployment 108,000 US Civilians previously employed by the US Military that will also displace the High School or College Graduates.

There is already President Obama's President's Proposal to US Congress to further Cut the US Military (more RIFs) as well as "across the board" Cuts of All Government Agencies (including the already underbudgeted Veteran's Affairs (Administration)); the current Demoncraptic Party lie about Rebuilding Infrastructure as the Responsibility as Funded by the US Defense Budget of the US Army Corps of Engineers (within US Infrastructure Projects/Programs); as the Local, City, State Infrastructure Jobs have already been taken over by the over 23 Million Illegal Aliens at the US displacing the US Labor Union Construction Workers making President Obama's Jobs Bill(s) worthless.

Also, Chris-382117, Too Much Information for Identity Thieves, REMFs, etc..

Double_Jeopardy GO READ Obama's Book, 2004 (unedited), Dreams from My Father: A Story of Race and Inheritance

And Vice President Biden's Biography

THAT IS WHAT YOU VOTED FOR. Don't you even read the contents, ingredients of anything before you buy something.

How can the Kenyan repeatedly claim "I fulfilled my campaign promise returned US Military from Iraq" is a dam ed lie...My neighbors husband is still there...
Then while stating his lies he had sent US Military into Libya...to guard Communist Chinese oil flow...
And into 7 more African nations...Somolia while sending us millions of Somolias whom are tearing up the Welfare System and the States they occupy.
Along with that US Military into Guatemala, and Nicaragu...they were already in Columbia.
Our admin puppets count on the brain washed repeating what they state: not the fact;;;therefore the 47% bribed to sit all day do nothing not worth their flush and vent on their FREE cells, and womb to tomb et all...for a VOTE
Importiing ILLEGALS.. was on the Spanish Propaganda Networks since the Kenyan(and I helped his opponent Alan Keyes so I know what I heard and still cannot tolerate the deceitful Media covering up the truth...paradox...
All for the demise of the nation they sit and earn milions to PROPAGANDISE
ALmost 200 US Military locations: but none on USA's Open BOrders: but that is the goal...so those who cannot see more than they look in the mirror and must have attention and get it venting adjectives: are fools..we are going down..probably without shots being fired because we no longer feed, clothe or make what we use --

stop

;therefore the 47% bribed to sit all day do nothing not worth their flush and vent on their FREE cells

Of which almost half of that number are soldiers in combat. But of course you wouldn't know anything about that. The majority of the rest are the working poor and retired seniors living off social security. Plus several thousand millionaires who also didn't pay taxes. If you are so jealous of them. Go sign up and go to combat. You won't have to pay taxes either.

We do the things that civilians don't want to do. Any rewards we receive because we head toward trouble are most deserved.

I am a retired reservist (E-8) who served from Vietnam through Afghanistan, Iraq 1, and Iraq 2. I was on active duty in 1997, 2003, and 2004. Although I didn't go anywhere east or west of Fort Worth, I was serving. When I was thrown out due to age, I decided that I had worked enough.

sgtusmc19651046

We do the things that civilians don't want to do.

George Orwell said it best.

People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf

George Orwell was correct in his assertion...therefore, I do not want Romney as my Commander in Chief. He doesn't get the right to lead troops today, especially when he failed to do so during Vietnam. Romney is a coward, hiding behind the riches of the Republican Party. Which brings me to my next point...I have never seen a party of so many Hawks...that never once served in the military...that want to keep our people at War. Republicans just don't get it.

Semper Fidelis.

C/O 1992
A COMPANY
PLT 1111

In recent history, the only POTUS's to have not served are the draft dodger Clinton and the current pretender-in-chief.

And once Romney is elected...will become the second draft dodger to serve as POTUS. Remember, Obama was too young to be drafted and serve during Vietnam. Romney, on the other hand, did get his deferment and left for France. At least Clinton stayed right here in the U.S.

Romney, 1994, Boston Herald;

"I was not planning on signing up for the military. It was not my desire to go off and serve in Vietnam, but nor did I take any actions to remove myself from the pool of young men who were eligible for the draft.

If drafted, I would have been happy to serve, and if I didn't get drafted I was happy to be with my wife and new child."

Yet he requested and received a deferment. He did remove himself from draft eligibility based on religious faith!

Romney, 2007, Boston Globe;

"I longed in many respects to actually be in Vietnam and be representing our country there and in some ways it was frustrating not to feel like I was there as part of the troops that were fighting in Vietnam."

Two words - Deferment & France.

I like that idea. I offer another one: Want to vote? Two years of service to your country! If you can't do military, then do Public Health.

These kids earned their education, it's not being handed to them on a silver platter. While I agree that war sucks and isn't good for anyone but the weapons and MRE manufacturers, I have nothing but high esteem for the Warrior.

Right on ! The draft would instill a real love of service to the USA and give a real formation sorely needed to the younger generation.This conception that the men and women who serve on our behalf don't merit benefits after protecting this country is disgusting.

Who would you rather have your six? The volunteer that wants to be there, or the kid who doesn't? I agree with your sentiment, but a draft is a terrible way to get there.

I agree, a draft would DRAMATICALLY reduce military expenditures, and make sure that any war America enters into is not one of convenience. It sickens me that we are at war, and yet most people are not impacted in the least.

Had the majority of the population had skin in the game in Iraq, we either wouldn't have been there in the first place, or we would have demanded real blood when it became clear we were lied to in order to start the war.

Additionally, a two year draft could be used to train young people for medical, engineering and mechanical professions after their mandatory service.

I agree, 100% eprcent, every man and woman should serve atleast 1-2 years of service.

Brick -

Couldn't that service also consist of tutoring the disadvantaged? Helping to build something?

They had the peace corps back in the 60's. They had Americorps after Vietnam. Service sould not have to necessarily be military in nature, but serving the country should be mandatory to earn full rights as a citizen.

How long have you been out of high school, Millionaire? Have you ever done any volunteer work? If so, have you volunteered with people who were forced to volunteer? Did you notice that they were the ones not doing anything? Why in the world would we send people who don't want to go to something so important? The draft was and is a terrible idea. How many of you older folks want to sign up for this public service? Give me a break!

And the Peace Corp and Americorp are bureaucratic jokes.

I like that idea myself, and no exemptions because your mom or dad are congressmen/women, or a state governor. I think Israeli females are also subject to draft so why not the females here in US.

pushingbikes I take it you have never served a day in the military, and are perhaps one of those that feel entitled to let someone else do your didty work.

I agree, and I am the parent of 2 college students and 1 teenager so I would have a horse in that race. The distance we have between those of us safe at home and those we send off to fight is not good. Make the war real to all, make it a shared sacrifice, and we will think harder about going to war.

Can't have a draft, all the contractors that are servicing the military would be out of the millions of dollars they get for mess duty, security etc. Can anyone think of anything dumber than the military hiring private contractors for security. Point is, all the campaign dollars would dry up from Haliburton et al, can't have that.

ED Orr, I am the daughter of an Air Force vet, the niece of a Vietnam Vet, a Korean Vet, and a WWII vet, and the granddaughter of a WWI vet. I spent a lot of time at the VFW Hall growing up! I have an incredible amount of respect for all veterans, even the ones who served in wars and conflicts I don't agree with. I also have worked hard my entire teenage and adult life and have never taken anything from anyone that I didn't pay back as soon as possible. I also do a lot of volunteer work in my community. How often do you volunteer/help out in your community, since we are assuming things?

Please don't assume anything about me because a bunch of old folks who don't have to serve now want to send our teenagers against their will to something they don't agree with. Luckily we have lots of Americans who DO want to serve and I am grateful for them. Military life is not for everyone and it will be a sad day when we force that on people again. Would you want some of these college kids who are so ignorant against veterans to be serving for you? NO!

The last thing the military needs is to have to babysit a bunch of young adults who do not want to be there, all in the name of building their character or whatever. It's just not the mission, and making it their mission would not improve our military readiness. Barring a dire national crisis, a US draft is not a good idea.

A national two years of some sort of service to the country might not be a bad idea, but it would be very expensive to implement, since the country would have to foot the bill for all these young adults' 3 squares and a roof over their head. People whine about having to fund Americorps -- how on earth could they expand this program to every 18-year-old in the country?

If there is to be a draft, it's got to be a honest draft where everyone is eligible. No more getting out due to college deferments, or "health conditions" or having Mommy and Daddy buy your way out. If you can't serve in the military, then there would be an alternate option in which you could serve at home--perhaps through manufacturing. But the draft has got to be uniform for it to be effective.

I think reinstating the draft is a bad idea because some people just aren't cut out for the military. My uncle served in the National Guard for many years, but I probably wouldn't last a day in any branch of the military because I'm not cut out for it.

Exactly Ms Piven! I have a hard enough time dealing with co-workers who don't want to work, why would I want to go to a war with people forced to go? That's like going to a doctor who says he only became a doctor because his mother made him and being okay with that. No thanks!

Clarifying Issues

Alright, a little off topic but not really... trying to be fair here.

The girl's comment was stupid. There is absolutely no reason to judge people in mass just because they are military. At this point in history we all should know better than to perpetrate or listen to such drivel.

I am sure there are those, just like within any other large group of people, who take advantage. I think however, that there are other contributing factors to any generalized anger and frustration.

Many colleges have amended their structure and policy to cater to the military. This isn't out of patriotism. It is motivated by market share. Any military member who applies to a school waves a green (financial) flag to the admissions boards. This can be a bit irksome to those of us who had to get in the old fashioned way (compete) and pay for it ourselves but they did earn their benefits. I don't think however, that everyone believes that they earned their admission. I'm sure many have but I am sure many haven't.

A prominent California University overlooked entrance requirements, handed out A's and watered down several Masters levels programs to accommodate for military personnel. If you look around you will see this too. It isn't the military's fault, it is the fault of the schools for adjusting standards just to make a buck. Schools see the GI bill as a cash cow and they are right. So long as they let them in and pass them they receive a steady stream of income.

Let me be clear, there are plenty of normal hard working military members who go to college just like the rest of us. However, there are a noticeable amount who probably shouldn't have passed admissions or passed their classes but miraculously graduate. When I say don't pass, I don't mean they aren't capable, I mean that they have very little to loose because it is free to them so they don't put forth the effort. They don't earn the degree. The schools in turn lower their standards because if the vets don't pass the school doesn't get paid.

I think this is where the anger really lies and it is easy to confuse the issues and blame the military. For those of you who insist on lashing out I'd keep it personal. If John isn't really earning that A then take it to your school's ethic's board. Don't blame the military just because John is a vet.

To all those that are against reinstating the draft, here is something to think about. We have been in almost nonstop wars since 1991 (Desert Storm, UN Missions in the Balkans and Africa, the middle east). We are able to continue in these wars because the "average kid" from the average household is not being dragged off to fight. Those that fight today volunteer and many in this country see it as "Ho Hum, they did Volunteer." If kids were being drafted as I faced in 1967, their parents would not let a war like this continue for 12 years. The biggest disservice that Jimmy Carter did to this country was create an all volunteer army because he gave politicians the ability to fight endless wars without having the protests of Average Americans to stop them.

So it seems, I do not know about the schools you cite, but I sure can see why schools would feel an economic pressure to lower standards. However, you should remember in general, that non vet's also have their share of those who did not really earn their degrees. This is one of the reasons why the term 'educated fool' was coined.

Chris-382117,

I think your last sentence is totally in error. People join the military to serve the Nation and they take an oath to obey orders in which they have little say, relying on the good sense of superiors in rank.

It is the job of the civilians, the citizenry, to ensure that the government doesn't piss away their lives. But that doesn't happen when the people have reduced themselves to being viewers instead of participants who demand accountability. It wouldn't hurt to demand that the government make formal declarations of war from now on. It would force Congress to deal with the issue of whether troops should be authorized and paid for.

As a Vet, Please I beg you, no draft.... We are not the Swiss, Swedes, or Isrealis. We need Volunteers, not conscripts we also need time to train.

Thanks

My son will retire from the Air Force in a few more years. When he joined, he paid into the GI Bill according to how their benefits worked. I'm sure those funds have matured very well. Additionally, he has taken courses and fulfilled quite a bit of his bachelor's requirements. When he retires, he can attend college and work toward any degree he wants. As far as I'm concerned, he can become a professional student, if that's what he enjoys.

He's intelligent, talented, hard working, dedicated and organized. (I wish I was one-tenth as good as he is.) He also has a very good temperament. It takes a lot to set him off. I'm kind of mouthy, (who, me?) Had I been in the classroom when the little twit mouthed off, I would have dressed her down on the spot. No one, who has served their time in the military or any other public service, should be treated in such a demeaning fashion. Hakim was a pure gentleman and very respectful in dealing with such a childish and immature classmate. He just proved he was better all the way around.

Our military folks have given up a lot. I think it's very important to give back to them. Something as basic as a good education is a very cheap price. I thank them all for their service.

(BTW, I went back to college when I was in my mid-30s, my kids were in junior high. I did 6 years of class work in less than 3 1/2 years, and graduated with a bachelor's degree and two masters. And yes, I graduated 8th in a class of over 3,000, and 4th in the master's programs. My son is much more intelligent than I am. He'll be just fine. I can't say the same for the little twit. {mouthy, who me?} )

Having been a product of the previous Selective Service, and still in the US Military,

WE NEED THE SELECTIVE SERVICE AND OR MANDATORY COMPULSORY US MILITARY SERVICE.

As Promised (Verbal Contract) of Candidate Obama during the Presidential Debates with Senator McPain. To stop the constant deployments of the 1% of US Citizens Serving in the US Military and Force the 92% of US Citizens to "Do Their "Fair Share" as a Civic Duty Candidate Obama Promised to Instate the Selective Service and or Mandatory Compulsory US Military Service as "US Military Service is a Civic Duty" and "US Citizenshipis not an Entitlement".

Of course no deferments, no exemptions. Equal Rights means Equal Responsibilities and Civic Duties (Yes, Women too).

I would add no exemptions, no deferments for Politicians, School Teachers, Law Enforcement, Fire Fighters, also; similar to the WWII Selective Service.

This means that All those "Drafted" would be going into the US Army or USMC Ground Combat Forces and no cush jobs of the USN nor USAF due to President Obama's previous US Defense Budget Cuts of the USAF and USN April 2009.

From past Experience I know why all of you don't want a "Draft"; same reasons during the Vietnam War. Because your arses might get "Drafted".

As far as someone "watching my arse ("6") you learn very quickly that if you don't watch someone's 6, both of you are D E A D.

And the best part was that those that did not want to be "there" just wanted to get things done so they could get the f**k out.

There was also the "peer pressure" for those that were slackers, that made everyone else work harder and longer, called an arse whopping, blanket party, etc..

Folks, the Democrats pushed through and Obamao signed the "GIVE Act" in 2009 to "encourage" volunteerism in this country. It's supposed to be the groundwork for Americorps on steroids However the devil is ALWAYS in the details. Under the section of the law governing the new (soon to be created? or already under production?) "Civilian Defense Corps" (Remember Obamao's statement that he wanted to build a force equivalent to the US military for domestic use?) it states that recruiting is to be aimed at the children (young adults) of single parent inner city families, juvenile delinquents, "former" street gang members, and young adults who have aged out of foster care. No religious facilities or services will be provided and even self organized ( dorm room prayer group meetings were specifically stated in the bill) services will NOT BE PERMITTED. Now look at the psychological profile of the people that they are intending to recruit, train in advanced military tactics and arm with automatic weapons for use in the US. Poorly educated, low self esteem, gang mentality, criminal tendencies, little to no parental involvement and no spiritual guidance/moral compass. Possibly serious anger management issues. That's NOT the psychological profile for a security force, it's the psychological profile of a Gestapo/SS type organization. PLEASE Look up this law on Thomas.gov and read it for yourself. It's a little difficult because of the deliberately convoluted manner in which it was written, but it is all right there for everyone to read.

Merlin-420455 - It wouldn't hurt to demand that the government make formal declarations of war from now on.

Being in the position we are in, we have a NEED to know all the Details as the participants.

So, what do you want a Document from Both Houses of US Congress, specifically titled: "Declaration of War Against ____fill in the blank_____".

Research, US Law, 1973 War Powers Resolution that Restricts, Limits the US President's War Powers. 48 hours, 60 days, 30 days.

Iraq: 2003- 2011 US Military Operation Iraqis Freedom per President Clinton's US Law with US Congressional Appropriations, H.R.4655, "Iraqis Liberation Act Of 1998" Justification Section 2 Weapons of Mass Destruction (the Demoncraptic Party LIE as Bush Bashing), Section 3 US Policy Overthrow of President Hussein.

Basic High School US Civics and US Government. It is the Job of the US President to Enforce the US Laws, not to pick and chose. The ONLY acceptable excuse is a US Law without any US Congressional Appropriations.

9/11 2001 Attacks. September 2001 CIA goes into Afghanistan to Overthrow the Fundamentalist Islamic Taliban that provided Islamic Sanctuary to Fundamentalist Islamic Al Quada and Islamic Jihadists that planned and implemented the 9/11 2001 Attacks. The CIA Fails. The CIA sends in their SAD/SOG, they also Failed. The US Military Asymmetric Warfare Forces are attached to the CIA's SAD/SOG and succeed in the Overthrow of the Fundamentalist Islamic Taliban Government:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=arxKhJIjIiY

The US Military Asymmetric Warfare Forces chase the Fundamentalist Islamic Taliban,Fundamentalist Islamic Al Quada and Islamic Jihadists along the Southern part of the Old Silk Road and are killing them with extreme prejudice. The US Politicians demand we stop, as not to violate the Sovereign Nations of Iran and Iraq. The Fundamentalist Islamic Taliban, Fundamentalist Islamic Al Quada and Islamic Jihadists go into Northern Iraq (The Demoncraptic Party LIE that there were no Al Quada at Iraq). They get Islamic Sanctuary from the Fundamentalist Islamic Kurdistanis. Combined together with the thousands of Holy Warriors of Islam flocking there they rename themselves Ansar Al Islam.

In 2001 we go into Northern Iraq and conduct Operation Viking Hammer, the elimination of the Fundamentalist Islamic Taliban, Fundamentalist Islamic Al Quada and Islamic Jihadists that escaped us at Afghanistan as renamed Ansar Al Islam. Before we can eliminate them the Fundamentalist Islamic Shia Republic of Iran gives them Islamic Sanctuary. Many go back to Afghanistan, later we find out that some fled southand are hiding with the Fundamentalist Islamic Shia of Southern Iraq.

2002, our Mission is changed to accomplish President Clinton's US Law, H.R.4655. President Bush, refuses to enforce this US Law, US Congress insists and passes into US Law, the 2002 Iraqi War Resolution with US Congressional Appropriations, this meets the requirement of a Declaration of War, with a Senate US Law and a House of Representatives US Law with US Congressional Appropriations (the other Demoncraptic Party LIE, "Unfunded War", as it is the US Congress NOT the US President that is responsible to find the money for the US Laws they created). Many of us oppose, since we know from experience that President Hussein is the Counterbalance to the Fundamentalist Islamic Shia Republic of Iran, we get threatened with charges of "Insubordination". Most of us just want to go home after so many deaths that made us almost non mission capable.

2002 we start Operation Hotel California to create a Strategic Operational Feint to make the Iraqis Military Command and Iraqis Political Leadership believe that the Main US Military Forces will come thru US Ally Turkey, so that they deploy most of their Iraqis Military North of Baghdad.

We attacked, seized, secured the Iraqis Chemical Weapons Facility at Sargat Iraq. Most of us believe that the majority of Iraqis Chemical Weapons were evacuated to Syria by President Hussein. Those of us that were previously involved with the US Military Training Teams to US Ally Iraq during the Iran Iraq Wars, rotated to Operation Cyclone, knew that Iraq used the Chemical Weapons to end the Iran Iraq Wars, saving millions of lives on both sides including the Ally of Iran, the Fundamentalist Islamic Kurdistanis.

Along with Pro US Kurdistanis, augmented by the US Army 10th Special Forces Group, we attack, seized and secured the Northern Iraqis Oil Fields.

The Iraqis Military Command deploys Five Full Strength Iraqis Armor and Mechanized Infantry Divisions North of Baghdad. Our Strategic Operational Feint is working. The US Ally Turkey Politicians are furious, and continually deny that the US Military will be allowed to attack Islamic Nation Iraq thru Islamic Nation Turkey, the Iraqis Politicians call the US Ally Turkey liars. In company sized units we attacked, and destroyed the Five Full Strength Iraqis Armor and Mechanized Infantry Divisions without Air Support.

The USAF uses Non Nuclear E-Bombs to cause 20th Century Iraq to go all the way back to the Stone Ages. As we knew without communications the Iraqis Military being Command Driven, Obey Orders Only, with no individual initiative (like the ignorant US Civilians want the US Military to be), without Orders the Iraqis Military would do nothing.

Will Saddam Fall Victim to the Elusive E-bomb? Feb. 18 2002

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/story?id=125336&page=1

2002-2003 we prepare for the US Military Conventional Warfare Forces to start coming from Kuwait and Saudi Arabia.

2003 we are attached to the Joint Special Operations Task Force Iraq. 2004 we are given R&R, attend many memorial services, replace our dead, assess new to the Teams, retrain the Teams with the new members, train for our next mission. 2005 we go back to Afghanistan.

Merlin-420455 is that enough of a "Declaration of War" for you. Two US Laws of both Houses of US Congress with US Congressional Appropriations. There are also similar US Laws with US Congressional Appropriations for Afghanistan.

And both Iraq and Afghanistan ARE UN Missions Nation Building as to why after all our paid in blood gains at Afghanistan, 2001 Gentleman British General McColl became the Commander of Afghanistan with no idea of Asymmetric War Afghanistan and only being a British Conventional Warfare Officer. There is also the very longtime hatred of the British by the Afghans.

The Only ILLEGAL and UNFUNDED US "War" was President Obama's Libya, as he violated US Law, 1973 War Powers Resolution (Act) by NOT informing both Houses of US Congress 48 hours before ANY US Military Actions, so US Congress did not write a US Law with US Congressional Appropriations to cover his arse, like they did for President Clinton (42) and President Bush (43). So President Obama with no US Congressional Appropriations had to use previously not budgeted for Discretionary Spending including paying for all the bombs, fuel, cruise missiles, etc. for NATO. ROTFLMAO, "No US Military Boots on the Ground" (LTC Woods and US Army Special Forces Teams at Libya February before the start in March).

(EXTREME SARCASM) So sure those of us that survived the above did not EARN anything while being paid below minimum wages.

david

Having been a product of the previous Selective Service, and still in the US Military,

So you have been in the military for 50+ years? It's very very rare to be in over 30 years. Not many if any in the military at age 67 or 68+. How did you do it?

The Only ILLEGAL and UNFUNDED US "War" was President Obama's Libya, as he violated US Law, 1973 War Powers Resolution (Act) by NOT informing both Houses of US Congress 48 hours before ANY US Military Actions

Actually I believe that was NATO. Which doesn't fall under 1973 War Powers Resolution (Act).

Here is one that is still active at 79

http://www.army.mil/article/36749/

Here is a rifleman at 60

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2065037/America-s-oldest-line-soldier-turn-60-wants-tour.html

Here is the oldest soldier casualty

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,520289,00.html

here is a ranger 45 years in. he is 63 still active

http://www.army.mil/article/25286/Active_duty_Ranger__63__honored_for_career_spanning_45_years/

Your right it is not common but they are their. You can enlist until your 43 years old.

If there is one litmus test that should be used for any Elected Federal Office...it should be a requirement to have military service. No one man or woman should be given the authority to send young men and women into combat without fully understanding what it means to serve in the military. That way they can understand the gravity behind that decision; they can understand the mechanics behind the decision; they'll understand what it means to put American Blood on the line for a cause; they'll understand that the "cause" must be real and in line with the values of the American People.

auto

You can enlist until your 43 years old

It is actually 42. But I didn't know that until I just looked it up. I guess it is hard for the army to fill its requirements at the younger age limit. I was air force(now retired). It was 27 when I was in, and still is.

PS

Thanks for the info. ®¿®

They deserve the GI bill and so much more!

Yep. 100% agree.

But this is a non-story. Some dim-witted Jersey princess (who is probably still in her teens) at Rutgers makes a bona-fide ridiculous statement, and the writer decides to attribute it to American society? Please. Give me a break. The overwhelming majority of Americans agree that GIs coming home deserve the GI Bill and so much more.

Shame on you Bill Briggs for creating something out of nothing. Idiotic statements from sheltered teens is NOT a news story.

Agreed about this being a non-story. People also need to consider the age-gap, since the military vets are probably at least 4 years older than most of their classmates. At that point in your life, that's pretty significant.

Is this a non story? This is a common question in many vines. It would help for anyone that wonders such to search and read about the purposes of journalism.

As a VA Chapter 34 educated vet I fully support these veterans educational benefits. I've walked a mile in your boondockers.

What many people don't know is that we actually pay into our G.I. Bill. I made a $1200.00 investment toward the G.I. Bill and served my country. In return, my education, for the most part is paid for. Unlike those rich kids whose mommy's and daddy's are paying for their full ride, I went into the military with a 3.2 GPA, learned a trade, received world wide experience, developed discipline and respect toward authority. I have self-confidence and self-respect. I know that I can put my mind to anything and still outperform a Harvard Grad any day of the week and twice on Sunday. The military develops young men and women to be future leaders in a civilian society. The military teaches us to think on our feet, to be decisive, improvise, adapt and overcome the impossible. We know what leadership by example is and we know how to follow as well. We get knocked down....our intestinal fortitude - enables us to dust ourselves off and push forward. THAT'S WHAT THIS COUNTRY NEEDS MORE OFF. Semper Fidelis!

YK-2475255, They are not whining. We owe them their education and they shouldn't have to be harrased and bullied every step of the way - it doesn't make for a conducive learning environment. Ignorant civilians should not talk about what they know NOTHING of.

"Although this is from a guy who's never served so who am I to say!"

You're right....Why don't you stick with that.....

WB52, no reason to be rude.

Cult, your friend who served in Korea and Texas was ready to go to fight/tour of duty if necessary. Korea is not the most stable place-maybe you've heard of North Korea? It's right above where your friend was. Also, there are probably lots of military in very secure places in war zones and they never see combat. Where are they on your tier?

My dad spent a year in the Philippines during the Vietnam War with the Air Force. He knows how lucky he was to not be in Vietnam but he also knew that he might have to fight if the war spread. We need to honor those veterans too.

Ginger...Not being rude. Just acknowledging his statement and offering some friendly advice.

For the record...In the eyes of veterans.....we who have served are all equal regardless of branch, theater, rank, or job assignment.

Again...just some friendly information for you.....

wb52, although that is a true statement, being a combat veteran, I honestly do hold those who have actively served in a theatre of combat in higher regard than I do veterans who served in the barracks...just some friendly information for you...

Where you serve is a luck of the draw. Many of these veterans joined out of high school out of patriotism, needing skills and job, or just because they couldn't afford college nor could their parents give them a loan like Mitt Romney suggested. The military is a team, something that many whiners on here obviously lack being a team player. Not everyone has the privilege to serve in a combat theatre and kill humans. Others support these combat veterans whether or not they eat IUD's and deficate bullets. Get a grip, you whimp. If you don't like the benefits the military gets, call a Republican and tell them to stop over-funding the Pentagon.

So, I spent nearly 20 years in the Navy as a submariner. I spent over 8 years of that time underway, submerged under the ocean surface. I never saw combat, because I was on a strategic missile submarine. My submarines were designed to defend the country against a nuclear, biologic, or chemical attack. So I as you, Cult of Personality, which tier should I be placed? Until you actually have a valid opinion, where you know and understand the issues, why don't you just follow the old adage,
'tis better to keep your mouth shut and have everyone assume you're stupid than to open it and confirm their suspicions.

Tracontech, I think you mean "eat IED's and defecate bullets". IUD's are a form of birth control. Just trying to be helpful. :)

Yes, tracontech and j s miller, you do not choose where you go! My dad was given a list of three places he would "like" to go when he was in the Air Force in 1966. His choices were German, Vietnam or the Philippines. He almost checked off Vietnam because he knew he would be sent anyway but then chose Germany and the Philippines first and second just because. He was so lucky to be sent to the Philippines but he was ready to go wherever they sent him because that was his job as someone in the Air Force.

"...just some friendly information for you..."

And here we go with who has the bigger dick - which should really be saved for when you're falling off a stool at the Legion at 2am. In public, why not cork that stuff?

Well Dan...Welcome home and I'm sorry you feel that way. To me the guy that supplied the ammo was just as important as the me using it.

As far as falling of the Legion stool at 2.....came back and did that for about 5 years trying to forget a lot of things.....finally got myself dried out and sober...Have been ever since.

Cult of Personality; I served 20 years in the Navy. I spent a lot of time in the Gulf area, and even did what is called an Independant Augmentation tour to help out the Army guys. I ended up spending 6 months on an Army base here in the States. The point is, the military is a team, not a corporation. There are no tiers other than the pay scale that goes with rank. The Navy tried to do that with something called Perform to Serve. In the end, they kicked out some of thier best sailors. On a team, everyone has something to offer no matter how small that may be. At the end of the day, everyone realizes that a cook is just as important as the guys pulling triggers. Does that mean they shouldn't get benifits, or should we just not feed the troops?

All veterans have made a solemn promise to this nation. All assume some risk.

Because a Bureau of Personnel detailer sends one into combat and another to a unit in Europe, is irrelevant.

Upon discharge, their assigned character of service is the guiding criteria for receiving benefits.

There are different GI bills for those who serve in a combat zone and those who do not. We have one son who did not deploy to Iraq and Afghanistan - got a GI Bill and education but not what our daughter who served in Iraq as a 88Mike all over Iraq got a better GI bill, and she has PTSD, a broken back, and 2 broken ankles from Iraq.

It becomes obvious that we reinstate the draft with no deferments. I say to all that think we over benefit our veterans........go *^%$^^%*&*(*$%*& yourself. You go to war and you take the hits and you hold your buddies as they bleed then tell me you don't deserve at least an education for your sacrifice. The offer of a free education is the least we can do for our veterans regardless of where they served at whatever the cost. This sickens me to no end.

We can not do enough for those returning from any war.......period! This attitude of some toward our veterans in this country downright sucks. This is why I said this all volunteer army would never work and here lies the proof. It separates our society from everything wrong with war, especially the anguish and the tears.

WY02:

I stand corrected on modern VA Benefits knowledge. Best wishes for you

and your children.

Thanks.

Evidently, you haven't stepped foot on a campus lately. This isn't the 60's anymore, brother. The modern campus is as diverse and divisive as the rest of the United States - in large part because the campus community draws from all walks of life, not "the elite"... You need to get out a little more. I teach at a University and I'm a dyed in the wool Republican... just like many of my colleagues. The world doesn't fit into neatly labelled packages anymore.

One rose does not a summer make.

The quote is, "One swallow does not a summer make..." - Aristotle.

It seems like a point that you yourself should ponder. One mean girl saying stupid things is hardly enough evidence to paint all college campus as dens of liberalism.

Robert, my local school has always had a anti military theme, and I heard a lot of the same comments that were heard in the article just before 911. In fact I was going to class when the 2nd plane hit. You do have to look below the surface though and realize that on most campuses the ones making the noise are the minorty. To make them uncomfortable I started giving out camoflauged cake doughnuts on Novemeber 10th and wishing them a Happy Marine Corps birthday. Was surprised by reactions. AND I did get a few goats to.-Retired Hospital Corpsman Chief (HMC)

Don,

I had some, a few, Profs who were not completely brainwashed liberals. But your comment stands for the vast majority. It became obvious after several months of observation that they would exercise their right to free, if irresponsible, speech but lacked the strength of conviction to kill or die to protect that right.

It's not a liberal vs conservative issue. Many liberals are awesomely thankful to vets and show it where I now live in a liberal enclave in LA.

People in my former, ultra-conservative Republican city weren't nice as nice to us military. We kind of liked to party, and that city was more of a church crowd. They sure wanted us to kick butt all over the globe, but that didn't make them patriotic.

If I wanted to quote an old Greek about a swallow I would. I prefer roses. Would you prefer to be called a swallow or a rose? The one exception rule is always in effect.

Liberalism has nothing to do with this attitude. It is an attitude of indifference. Because someone chooses to become academic is part of what makes the US great. Has it gotten so bad that we politicize everything?

With that said, in my eyes every man and woman over 18 should be required to serve this country in some way whether it be civil or military. We've become weak and opinionated.

Maybe what the US needs is a good ass kickin'. Then maybe people will appreciate how good they have it after the bleeding stops.

This is wrong in the article, if you enroll full time in a school you MUST go. If you decide not to go to class and fail you are responsible to pay the WHOLE tuition back. I know this because ive used the G.I. Bill and made sure I understood everything about it.

It is amazing to me that someone that gets paid to write these aritcles wouldnt get thier facts straight and find this information out so people dont get all riled up when reading this. There is absolutley NO way to game the system with this, you dont go to class you pay the money back.... end of story.

square dude- your wrong.

The system is already set to if you dont make GPA with a full or half schedule, you don't get any money. (Speaking as a vet that is using the GI bill) MSNBC does not know what they are talking about.

We have freedom of speech in this country, and you will always have someone like the girl in the article who says inappropriate and ignorant stuff. If it is rare and is coming only from an occassional student, not faculty or administration, just ignore it. I believe most people today see our veterans as having earned the GI Bill.

What concerns me is the last part of the article, implying that there is a problem with veterans taking the GI Bill and not actually attending college. When my husband attended college on the GI Bill after the Viet Nam War, had he not passed all his classes with at least a C, he would have had to pay back a portion for any failed classes, up to 100% had he failed all of them. If this is not still the case, then it should be, and the problem will be solved. By the way, my husband rarely got a grade below an A and only got one C during his four years of college on the GI Bill. How many students on football scholarships can match that?

If Im wrong, and I may be, why did the article have that last piece?

It shouldnt have had it. Like I said, you sign up for classes you better show up and perform, cause if you dont you owe big time. I took 7 credits at EMU in Michigan and decided to go to another school 1 month into my semester. I couldnt just stop going and recieve those benefits..... I was required to finish my classes and then start at the other school the next semester. Got a 4.0 and then went to a tech school, it was more up my alley :-) Its not you that is wrong square dude...... its misinformation in the article!

Also what most people dont think about is we paid with both our time and money. Every soldier pays at least 1200 dollars into the GI Bill.... dont take me wrong, its a huge return on 1200 dollars but add that onto the 24 hours a day 365 I put in while deployed in Baghdad, Iraq and I say it is overtime pay for working my butt off overseas

square dude-Probably was writen by some one who never served. You can not do it and not have to pay back.

The article is incorrect, a vet using the GI Bill must maintain at least a C average and must complete the class. Otherwise, they are responsible for not only reimbursing their tuition costs, they are also responsible for returning the BAH that they are given if they are attending full-time. (Full-time is considered 12 credits or more.)The BAH is to help assist, not pay for their living expenses, so many work part-time while going to school just to survive. They also can only use the GI Bill towards classes required for their major, if the class is not on their degree program, they must pay for that class & fees out of their own pocket. For example, anyone going into the medical field needs a Medical Terminology class, however some medical programs (like Physical Therapy) do not list it as a requirement so the GI Bill will not pay for it. Yes, unfortunately some can't handle it, but the government goes after them for reimbursement. The majority that do, have a great work ethic & work hard to maintain a very high GPA. I will take a hard working vet in my class any day!

You are so astoundingly off-base on so many arguments that I don't know where to begin... but I'll try.

The government and the private sector provide more than sufficient financing for anyone, of any background, to pay for an education. The larger problem in educational financing is now students who emerge with more student debt than they can afford, given the realities of the current job market. I was born in rural poverty, made full use of the loan programs available from both the Federal government and private sector banks, and ultimately earned a PhD. As for your suggestion of implementing tuition caps, it's truly misguided to suggest price caps on anything... It's a well-known, failed approach to controlling cost that you would learn about in any microeconomics course. Ask anyone who was an adult in the 1970's about price controls and gas rationing...

I always thought the cost of books was too high. Especially if the only reason it was required because it was written by the teachers mentor or someone the teacher was mentoring.

I don't even know if grads have too much debt, take four years off and don't work, suuport yourself on loans, even 100K divided by the four years is only 25 a year, live on borrowed money, I don't know, what is the average debt after four years?

You can also blame the textbook industry for putting out another book every two-three years at a cost of $100 each. But then it's a vicious circle, as students buy more and more used books, so the textbook industry has to keep updating to make money.

PD - thank you for your service. You and all the Vets deserved respect. Then and now.

I too am a Viet Nam vet. When I got back home I didn't tell anyone who I was or where I had been. I waited about 7 months till my hair grew out before I went to school so that I would mix in better with the people. After about 2 years of going of school some people found out I was a vet and decided that I wasn't a bad person afterall. Comming home from Viet Nam was tough, but most people accepted the fact that we did some good. It was movies like Apocolypse Now, The Dear Hunter and Born on the 4th of July that changed many persons minds about what had happeded over there.

I am greatful for the education I received for not only did it help in my carrear, it tought me how to learn and not be afraid to tackle new things. BTW, I graduated with a 3.2 out of 4 with over a 150 credits. Well above the norm, so no, I don't think I was stupid for having been in the military, which at the time was impossible to avoid.

Trouble with that is that you would be forcing people to fight (and die and kill) in wars that they themselves are 100% against. Let's just be honest for a second, pretty much every war we have been involved in since WWII has been a war of political or economic choice. We have not had a serious threat to national security since the Cuban missle crises. Yes there have been tragedies and reasons for military action but nothing to justify full scale war. Proof of this is the fact that we have not been involved in a Full Scale War since WWII.

I for one have never served. being born in 1976 there has not been a large enough threat to our nation to cause me to feel the need to enlist. And MOST people feel the same way. If more people felt that our latest wars were rightgeous then we would have a flood of volunteers, and our current service men and woman would not have deployment after deployment. But most people don't, regardless of political idealogy. Conservative or Liberal.

I'll enlist when the likes of Romney's sons, Bush's daughters or Obama's daughters (when of age) do. When the men who are so eager to start wars start sending their own children into combat I might start to feel differently. Until then, no military service for me or my children.

Anyone who chooses to enlist, that is their right. And I have no problem with providing perks such as the G.I. Bill for them when they do. Better to pay for a Vets schooling than a politicians retirement. But mandatory service into the "Global Force for Good" is wrong.

From the looks of his GF in that photo, I say who cares about anit-veteran sentiment, Scott Hakim seems to be doing very, very, well.

The problem I have with compulsory service, is it needs to be for all and I don't know that I want to be in a foxhole with your drug using spoiled child. Then again if we screen for drug use and your child can not report for duty, I guess we can figure out a way to deal wih them.

What the f*ck are you talking about?

I wasn't around during the Vietnam War but the protesters weren't against the soldier, especially the drafted ones, they were against the war! The few cases of hostility when the veterans came home were terrible but the large majority of people protesting that war did not disrespect the veterans. You know who really got it wrong? The government! Look at how the government all but abandoned the Vietnam veterans once they came home from fighting in their war!

pushingbikes, You have it all wrong. I was eight years old when my father cane back from Vietnam and saw him get spat on by people at the airport. He just kept walking, people disrespected him because he was a serviceman. These were the "war protesters" not the civil people. He show how much better of a man he was than those who spat upon him.

I myself served 21 years in the military, and if that had happened to me, I would not have been so nice. Our military veterans deserve our utmost respect .

How did the "protesters" get onto a military airport? Your father most likely came home to a military base or was bused directly from a city airport to the military base to be discharged. How did the protesters know his flight was going to land at a non-military airport? Did they just hang out in airports waiting and hoping to have someone to spit on?

No, I must strongly disagree

Vietnam had a DRAFT, they were not volunteers.

Many were forced to participate.

If you volunteer, you have blood on your hands

Pushing Bikes

When I flew back from Vietnam it was into Travis AFB the bussed to San Francisco IAP - we were in uniform and I too recall being spat at and called "baby killer". It took a lot of self-discipline to not strike back.

In your statement that you "...were not around during the VN war", shows me, you are taking "hearsay evidence" and anecdotal information for facts. You might try the Internet and research that era to enlighten you on your belief.

William Demuth

Vietnam had a DRAFT, they were not volunteers.

I beg to differ with you, but the majority in my unit were not draftees.

If you volunteer, you have blood on your hands

If that is your belief, I suggest you open up your mind to reality please. Some people volunteer for their belief in the American way of life and, dare I say, so others may live in freedom.

I remember watching stuff like that on tv. People actually spat on the vets coming home. The people of this country have lost all values and respect for the military. We watch more news on gang by shootings every night instead on watching whats going on with the military vets. Instead of worring about free birth control we should forcus on vets losing their homes and kids of fallen vets, giving them free education. This country should make them priority over anyone else.

Whatever benefit a veteran gets is nothing compared to what they have to endure in the service of their country. I was Combat Arms during the Vietnam era and some of my kids don't know me because I lived in the field. That is 1 area that has hurt me and my first year in the military I made $2400 but we sacrificed so we can have the freedoms we enjoy. I have served on freedoms Frontiers and got to see how communist countries lived and thank God for America and the freedoms we enjoy due to the sacrifices of our armed forces. If people want to demean soldiers we have served so they can have free speech. The sad thing is come January the President will start cutting military benefits to make us more in line with the private sector. I didn't know people in the private sector got shot at. Oh well got to go. May God continue to bless America.

Great point, Scott. I worry for this country more every day.

What does illegal immigration have to do with this? Try to stay on topic. Plenty of straight A/talented students get scholarships or discounts from schools. No one actually pays the full tuition at an Ivy League school because they have such large endowments.

No one actually pays the full tuition at an Ivy League school because they have such large endowments.

True about large endowments, not true about no one paying full tuition, and by the way all Ivy League schools only give need-based aid, not academic scholarships. (They don't need to offer academic scholarships - plenty of demand from highly qualified students).

The kids going to Ivy League schools can easily get scholarships from other sources if they are inclined to do so. And because the students are going to schools with endowments, they are never paying FULL tuition.

Why are you calling them "brat". They actually did what was and is expected from them. They study and did well. Many go into the military because they may not have the grades to actually attend college, lack motivation and dicipline or/and lack financial support.

Sadly, study after study have shown that many soldier won't be able to handle the demands of college and drop out. They were unqualified when they graduated and are unqualified now.

I called that government wasting money!

I am a veteran of a foreign conflict who served after the vietnam war and before the Iraq war during the time the GI Bill was not available. I contributed to the VEAP program and attended full time technical college then it helped with another 3 years of night school. I made good money because of it as a commercial sheet metal worker ( ventilation systems installation )Like many, when the economy crashed have had very little employment since 911 - less than 6 months of work each year for over 10 years has taken a major toll friends have lost homes, families and their credit have suffered greatly. I have explored other fields to go into and see that even for something like chef school at a tech college is beyond reach - people have had vehicles repossed etc. It was just 3 years ago while at a workforce center I read about public law 107-288 and it blew my mind how union dispatch offices don't have it posted on the wall and that no matter who I've reported it to, ( county veterans service officer said yes, they supposed to be etc etc) and nothing at all has come of it, yet on job sites they meticulously ensure the required amount of affirmative action people are sent to job sites. I have to pay union dues for this even when not working / not getting unemployment, and they are using a portion of that money, to support candidates who Love the idea of paying college tuitions for foreigners, after volunteering Life & Limb defending the constitution and seeing people go home impaired for the rest of their Lives for having served during peace-time in the 82nd Airborne with 9 second Life expectancy, had the right to terminate and go back to a safer, regular unit if it was too much - these men weren't going through this because 'someday they might get to attend a vocational tech school and become a commercial journeyman sheet metal worker' or (?). They all did it because they believed in and understood the value of our constitution. As a craftsman, local issues I tend to vote democrat because it means Livliehood. After being out for decades, paid dues for the constitution, paid taxes though the nose for 25 years, and union dues, it is still the dirty looks that are sharply returned by these 'leaders' at the local level when anyone questions their motives on things like the DREAM act / or why nobody ever enforces public law 107-288 here for EVERY trade ( sheet metal / pipefitter / cement / etc) - that's why more veterans have commited suicide the past few years than have died in combat. As a veteran you yourself know veterans aren't the kind of people who go looking for hand-outs. Local civic 'leaders' are far much more than just an insult to their own intelligence. They're the people working hard to throw away everything you've ever worked for all your Life. I used to think that because senate / congress is comprised of less than 1% veterans it was some weird conspiracy. Then about a week ago I finally realized it is no conspiracy, it couldn't be, fact is, over 99% of these people with political careers weren't smart enough to pass the military exam and get in ; )

scottestinson1

Unfortunately, the spoiled brats who complain about veterans receiving scholarship money are the same ones who support idiotic ideas like the DREAM Act for illegal immigrants.

Nice try scott...you identified the wrong people. You just proved you know nothing. They're not complaining about scholarship money...they're complaining about the Montgomery and Post 911 GI Bills. Both are classified as entitlements. The people complaining are the same people complaining about ALL entitlements. They are the "keep UR govmint out of my medicare" people. I'm pretty sure the girl in the story who was complaining doesn't pay her own way in college. Mommy and Daddy are probably staunch Tea Party members and have fill her little airhead with their "family values". They more than likely agree wholeheartedly with Mitt's 47%.

Scott, I am against the dream act and against vets getting free educations when other people have to pay. If the vets had been drafted,that is one thing. But they willingly join the military, it is a job and they get paid and have free medical care and cheap or free housing while working. I don't see why they should get free university education and, for example, former firefighters or policemen, or anyone else for that matter should have to pay.

Agreed 100%. Joining the army their choice, nobody forced them to do so. There are others who take more risks then the army but we do not hold them as high as we do to those who join the army. For example, the police take the risk of their lives every day they go to work unlike the the army who is at risk only when they are sent overseas.

Idiots, so many idiots. First, I have never been nor will I ever be afraid to say i served my country. Second, the people who bad mouth military needs to do two things: have their rights and freedoms taken away since it was those men and women who got you those rights in the first place and second take your happy butt over to a country that has little or no rights since what is provided for you is taken for granted. Another thing, people like this homesick yank, must be an idiot because policemen and firefighters are far more different than military. See when a police officer or firefighter gets a call, they are gone a few hours, maybe a day or two, when you get deployed in the military, it is 12-18mths with maybe 6mths in between deployments. Firefighter and policemen do not fight to keep your rights and freedom. They are however, just as important as military, they keep our families safe while we are out keeping the country safe. War is a nasty business but is vital to protect ourselves. Japan came over and bombed us for no reason. Where we suppose to do nothing? Would you do nothing if someone came over and hit you? 9/11-did those people in those buildings deserve what they got? You fags seem to not understand that as a soldier, we do not have the same rights as you do. We lose some of ours to protect yours. I feel proud in doing that which is why I will never regret my action of joining the military. Oh and by the way, we do pay for the GI bill. So many ungrateful idiots who just need to be shot.

@Leon:

Way to communicate your point of view intelligently by telling everyone who disagrees with you that they're a 'fag' who 'needs to be shot.' You sound like a real winner.

LEONSTERNER, the military DID NOT GET ME MY FREEDOM, the CONSTITUTION is what gives us all our freedom! If you bother to read the damn document you'll find that those of us who are born within this nation get all those unenaliable rights under the document, not because some soldier fought for, thus giving us these rights. War these days have been turned into an unending industry of money making, not bravery and fighting for what is right vs. wrong. There is nothing noble about how OUR military is being used by these modern day politicianS, mainly because most of them have not served themselves. Our kids (those in the military) are being used as pawns in an ongoing game of "lets prove who is the toughest" by a bunch of phony tough guys who were too chickensh*t to fight when it was their turn, but can't wait to prove how tough they are by signing an order to send YOUR kids to get there heads blown off. Signing a piece of paper is real f*cking tough! Anyone who knows anybody who has served should know that these soldiers may have a political opinion, BUT NOBODY GIVES A SH*T! Take your orders no matter WHO is president, that is your job and that is how you are supposed to operate as a professional soldier. Those sitting at home on their asses can say what they want, and most of them do because they've never served before. The college student should lay off the ex-soldiers and realize that its the damn politicians that are not using our military in the correct way, for the right reasons. These soldiers are not fighting for mine or anybody else' rights, they are just being misused fighting for the freedoms of others countrymen! I'm not Iraqi or Afghany and those soldiers are not protecting any bases here in the U.S., so stop saying they are fighting for OUR freedoms. They are protecting oil wells and passages leading out, they are protecting INDUSTRY.

These soldiers are not fighting for mine or anybody else' rights, they are just being misused fighting for the freedoms of others countrymen! I'm not Iraqi or Afghany and those soldiers are not protecting any bases here in the U.S., so stop saying they are fighting for OUR freedoms. They are protecting oil wells and passages leading out, they are protecting INDUSTRY.

Fine. One day the sh!t will hit the fan in these United States. History dictates that one day it will be our turn to become a Bosnia. When that day comes you better hope to hell those US Soldiers who aren't fighting for your freedom are still around and willing to defend your sorry a$$. Ask the widow and orphans of Bosnia what it was like to NOT have a strong military force defending them...yea...the Serbs definitely showed them the love.

Libra_Man1

Agreed 100%. Joining the army their choice, nobody forced them to do so. There are others who take more risks then the army but we do not hold them as high as we do to those who join the army. For example, the police take the risk of their lives every day they go to work unlike the the army who is at risk only when they are sent overseas.

You a pretty good shot? ...just asking. Self-defense can be an ugly endeavor, and often unsuccessful for the unskilled

homesick yank

Scott, I am against the dream act and against vets getting free educations when other people have to pay. If the vets had been drafted,that is one thing. But they willingly join the military, it is a job and they get paid and have free medical care and cheap or free housing while working. I don't see why they should get free university education and, for example, former firefighters or policemen, or anyone else for that matter should have to pay.

Yep...ignore our vets who have served multiple deployments. Ignore their unemployment rate. Ignore their depression. Ignore the people who your government spent millions of dollars training on heavy weapons...let's see how that works out for you.

It's sad that people think this way at all. My fiance, as well as other fellow veterans, has his Criminal Justice Bachelors Degree and joined Enlisted Navy. So, NO, we are not all stupid.

In addition, I don't see how some vets are recieving GI Bill benefits and not going to class... If I miss more than 2 days in an 8 week period, I fail my class. Attendance is supposed to be reported to the VA. Also, some people don't get full benefits if they don't attend full time (12 hours). Maybe the attendance thing is just more strict b/c I'm in Nursing school putting my GI Bill benefits to good use after 7 years of being a Combat Medic in the Army :)

obviously you f*cking morons didn't read or understand ANYTHING i wrote! You can say all the bullsh*t cliches you want to but the facts of the matter is, THEY ARE NOT PROTECTING ME OR YOU, they are protecting oil company interest, making sure the military industrial complexes' engines keep running, and making sure to keep idiots like yourselves scared to death and make you think we need all those f*cking bases around the world. And whoever wrote the Bosnia quip, you are the biggest moron of them all! Really, Bosnia? Do you have any idea what the fighting was about? Let me give you a small synopsis of what it was; it was just after the fall of the Soviet Union, who by the way repressed religion, Muslims and Christians decided they no longer wanted to try and live side by side with another, so they started shooting. THAT WILL NEVER HAPPEN HERE, WE ARE NOT RELIGIOUSLY REPRESSED MORON! That is what living in this country brings for its citizens, not worrying about your neighbor shooting you because you don't believe what he does. Is that what you are suggesting you want to do?

Now now folks, whether you agree on whether the soldiers are protecting "your freedom" or special interest groups in the Middle East is irrelevant. The soldiers signed that dotted lines and put their lives on the line to honor the contract. If the United States wants to keep a high quality volunteer army, it would be best for this country to honor the contract, including anything that pertains to educational benefits for the troops.

If we do any cuts to the military, lets close our overseas military bases and put serious price limits on the acquisitions of any new weapons, NOT on the backs of those who have already served.