Exactly how is my understanding that the bible is fictional, and was used to control people, and explain basic things, in a time that science could not. Or that religion has caused the death of thousands and thousands of innocent people over the years, being "brain-dead"? The ignorance of "believers" is astounding. Have you ever read about history? Or perhaps researched scientific finds?

So they are brainwashed because they believe different then you do?

Mitch,

That is just your opinion. Others disagree with you. Too bad for you.

BOOM got you Mr.isnotatax! Religion is a joke and a tool used to control minds that are unable to think for themselves. The whole concept of religion was created during a time when man had no way of explaining the phenomena that took place in their lives such as floods, volcanic eruptions or climate changes. And the fact that we still cling to these notions when there is so much CLEAR evidence right in front of you that says other wise is appalling. I understand it's a scary concept to accept. I get it, I use to be a poor brain washed individual until I started asking questions and looking into things for myself. Maybe you should do the same and start asking questions and start looking at cold hard facts instead of into a book that belongs in the fiction section of the library.

His comment disqualifies itsnot' from being an authentic Christian.

His comment disqualifies itsnot' from being an authentic Christian.

So far, nothing has been proven wrong in the so called "fictional Bible". Until it has, it is just your belief system.

Ok so what if you have a Jewish or atheist cheerleader on the squad and it does offend their beliefs to stand behind these signs, but are too scared to go against the other cheerleaders for fear of being ostracized or bullied. So how does that fit into you no one is complaining or getting hurt. Its the fact that the public school is not supposed support any ones ideology to keep students from feeling pushed into a beliefs they may not agree with.

MitchMe,

I don't see this as brainwashing at all.

I'm Jewish and certainly don't prescribe to the religious beliefs they're expressing. I also don't believe this is appropriate for a school-sanctioned event.

Having said all that, I don't see faith as a four-letter word when it comes to our kids. As long as they know that their beliefs--however closely held--are no more valid than those that are different, belief in a higher power (in my opinion) can be a very good thing.

Faith is a rare commodity these days. I respect it wherever I see it, as long as it's done respectfully.

Deaths in the name of secularism / atheism

128,168,000 VICTIMS: THE DEKA-MEGAMURDERERS
61,911,000 Murdered: The Soviet Gulag State.
35,236,000 Murdered: The Communist Chinese Ant Hill.
20,946,000 Murdered: The Nazi Genocide State.
10,214,000 Murdered: The Depraved Nationalist Regime.

19,178,000 VICTIMS: THE LESSER MEGA-MURDERERS
5,964,000 Murdered: Japan’s Savage Military.
2,035,000 Murdered: The Khmer Rouge Hell State.
1,883,000 Murdered: Turkey’s Genocidal Purges.
1,670,000 Murdered: The Vietnamese War State.
1,585,000 Murdered: Poland’s Ethnic Cleansing.
1,503,000 Murdered: The Pakistani Cutthroat State.
1,072,000 Murdered: Tito’s Slaughterhouse.

4,145,000 VICTIMS: SUSPECTED MEGAMURDERERS
1,663,000 Murdered? Orwellian North Korea.
1,417,000 Murdered? Barbarous Mexico.
1,066,000 Murdered? Feudal Russia.

When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again. But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her. And if the slave girl's owner arranges for her to marry his son, he may no longer treat her as a slave girl, but he must treat her as his daughter. If he himself marries her and then takes another wife, he may not reduce her food or clothing or fail to sleep with her as his wife. If he fails in any of these three ways, she may leave as a free woman without making any payment. (Exodus 21:7-11 NLT)

Put that one on a banner...

mitchme,

can be said about any book,,,,,,

Hey BeenHereaWhile, you really just said that nothing has been proven wrong in the bible? Are you living under a rock?

nortonie,

how many of those deaths were motivated by no belief in god? Because if you lump evey secular political killing at the feet of atheism, then every theocratic killing will be attributed to religion. And those numbers are truly enormous.

You cannot compare apples to oranges.

Poor brainwashed kids.

Yes, this country would now rather you kids get medical marijuana cards, have abortions, watch The X Factor, and New Jersey Housewives, then think their is some powerful god that loves you as his own child, and wants you to treat yourself and others with love. We are so much better off with out God. (Sarcasm Alert)

their beliefs--however closely held--are no more valid than those that are different

Not valid in any way

And people like Nortonie continue to rewite history to suit there needs.

And your kids are probably like the some of the ones running around crazy in my area. Vandals, thieves and drug addicts. I missed shooting an armed "snowflake" going through my truck 3 weeks ago. I'll take God fearing children over the Hollywood poisoned ones everyday. Where are kids taught morality today? ...We empowered them to the TV.

Deb, Jews do believe in God. I doubt in this community there are any atheist cheerleaders on the squad or the football team for that matter. What is really unfair, is that the majority of Americans have to sacrifice their rights to appease the minority. Most Americans do in fact believe in God.

God bless America!

Raleigh dollay maybe you missed it on the way in

"we hold these truths to be self evident, that all men are created equal"

Your not thinking USA with your thoughts there, your thinking Saudi Arabia

nortonie,

There is a lot wrong with your list. First, no one (as far as anyone is aware) has killed in the name of secularism or atheism.

Second, there are some countries on your list that make no sense:

20,946,000 Murdered: The Nazi Genocide State - Christian.

5,964,000 Murdered: Japan’s Savage Military - Emperor was considered divine.

1,883,000 Murdered: Turkey’s Genocidal Purges - Muslim

1,585,000 Murdered: Poland’s Ethnic Cleansing - Christian or Catholic

1,503,000 Murdered: The Pakistani Cutthroat State - Muslim.

1,663,000 Murdered? Orwellian North Korea - Kim Il-sung revered as divine.

1,417,000 Murdered? Barbarous Mexico - Catholic.

1,066,000 Murdered? Feudal Russia - Christian.

I need some advice from the biblical crowd regarding some of the elements of God's Laws and how to follow them:

1. Leviticus 25:44 states that I may possess slaves, both male and female,
provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend of mine claims
that this applies to Mexicans, but not to Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can't
I own Canadians?

2. I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus
21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?

3. I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her
period of menstrual uncleanliness (Lev. 15:19-24). The problem is, how do I tell? I
have tried asking, but most women take offense.

4. When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it crates a
pleasing odor for the Lord (Lev. 1:9). The problem is my neighbors. They claim the
odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?

5. I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2
clearly states that he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him
myself, or should I ask the police to do it?

6. A friend of mine feels that, even though eating shellfish is an
abomination (Lev. 11:10), it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don't agree.
Can you settle this? Are there "degrees" of abomination?

7. Lev. 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a
defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision
have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle-room here?

8. Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around
their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev. 19:27. How
should they die?

9. I know from Lev. 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me
unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?

10. My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev. 19:19 by planting two different
crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two
different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and
blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the
whole town together to stone them (Lev. 24:10-16)? Couldn't we just burn them
to death at a private family affair, like we do with people who sleep with
their in-laws (Lev. 20:14)?

I know you have studied these things extensively and thus enjoy considerable
expertise in such matters, so I am confident you can help.

Thank you again for reminding us that God's word is eternal and unchanging.

So they are brainwashed because they believe different then you do?

No. They are brainwashed because they believe in deities, ghosts, and spirits...which do not exist.

That is just your opinion. Others disagree with you. Too bad for you.

No, it is not an opinion....it is a fact. There is absolutely no evidence of any supernatural events or entities anywhere. I've looked high and low. My conclusion is...it's all BS.

@ nortonie -

Soviet Gulag State & Chinese Anthill - Deaths in the name of "State Control", religion supressed to prevent organized resistance, nothing here done "in the name of atheism/secularism"

Nazi Germany - A Christian state and government, not atheistic.

"Depraved nationalist regime" since you didn't mention which depraved regime, so it's hard to agree or disagree. If you mean pre-WWII spain, or WWII Italy, both were Christian.

Japan - Very much religious, not atheist, just not Judeo-Christian (I'm pretty sure that the rest of your "Lesser mega-murderers" is covered by this same comment)

Orwellian N.K. - I honestly have no idea about their current religious status, probably the same story as Russia though.

Mexico - Is fairly Catholic, although it's sure got a mess of its own traditions mixed in.

Feudal Russia - Very Religious - Home of the Eastern Orthodox Church (and the Very is the main reason the communists felt the need to supress religion).

So, yeah, most of your "hotlist" gets scratched right off, and the last few are debatable.

Super sweet comments Z!

I agree 100%

Z, it looks like we got some stoning to do. I'll go by and pick up some shovels and some landscaping rocks from Lowe's. I will try and pick up some mexicans too, they work harder then those canadian slaves I had last year, I'm not much for digging holes myself!

IF this is a Private Christian School, then this is fine. Otherwise, it is not. Very simple.

IF this is a Private Christian School, then this is fine. Otherwise, it is not. Very simple.

Not sure why this duplicated, but ditto!

I am personally not offended by it, but some apparently are so why would you want to push it as a christian??

zflynn-fantastic post! However, on #4, I always thought that you can kill, stone, or burn someone else, but I thought it was God's bailiwick to do the smiting? Could you get that clarified for me too? I know a lot of people that could stand some good smiting.

zflynn: Very good questions......can anyone who studies the Bible please answer?

@zflynn - I LoL'd so hard I almost peed myself. Bravo sir, bravo!!

I too am awaiting the answers to your questions.

There are reasons for a lot of those things like not eating shellfish because at the time they also put their sewage into the water thereby making shellfish uneatable, but then your not really looking for answers are you? You just want to trash those people that believe in God.

All of his quotes, scriptures come from the OLD testament, as a Christian the NEW testament is the new law and the OLD law is not applicable. But a Christian I NEVER shove my beliefs on anyone, unless they ask, if you don't believe that is your CHOICE, we have free choice at least in this country, not like the Islamic countries....I am thankful we have this freedom in this country. These articles always bring out the hatred on all sides of these fences, that is too bad.

So far, nothing has been proven wrong in the so called "fictional Bible". Until it has, it is just your belief system.

Where to start with this? According to the bible, God create the earth and all things on it approximately 5000 years ago, but yet dinosaurs lived millions of years ago and the remains of the oldest prehistoric man have been carbon dated back to at least 8000 years ago and the earth dates back billions of years. Hmmm, who's word should I take on this?

I bet science is the Devil's work trying to undermine the teachings of God.

Wait, wait, wait... so that means that the WHOLE Bible doesn't need to be adhered to? I thought the whole premise of believing in the Bible meant that it all had to be respected and followed.

You have freedom of choice up to , but not including, the point at which you violate the seperation of church and state as defined in the Constitution. When you use my tax payer dollars and a government funded institution to pass your beliefs to others you have violated that seperation.

I just wonder why we can shut down entire blocks in New York for Muslims to pray, we can disallow the Pledge of Allegiance, we can remove the Ten Commandments from buildings, and now we can take to court those who wish to express their faith in God. But, DO NOT, IN ANY WAY, DISPLAY ANYTHING NEGATIVE OR DEMEANING TOWARD MUHAMMAD AND THE MUSLIM FAITH. IF YOU DO, YOU HAVE EXTREMISTS POSING DEATH THREATS. When the hell are we going to wake up in this country?

Sadly, we will waiting till Jesus comes back for answers to zflynn's wonderful questions, as in, never.

Believing in something is brainwashed

@Donna - Apples and Oranges. The issue at hand is whether or not the cheerleaders and school are breaking the law. Your point contends with those practicing the belief punishing people they don't agree with.

Shorter answer: The government doesn't stop/punish people for speaking ill of Islam, Muslims threaten to do so. It's not illegal to speak out against Islam.

I bet if one of those cheerleaders looked slightly tan and scribbled some lines that looked arabic the entire central U.S. would rally into a lynch mob.

When I played football my team would always gather together to pray before every game. There was a school sponsored club called the fellowship of christian athletes that would get special treatment considering the coaches were some of the mentors for the club. I guess they didn't pray hard enough for those games we lost or when people got hurt. I bet it was my fault our QB and the biggest advocate of FCA broke his arm when we were running the 110 hurdles because I never prayed with them...

So far, nothing has been proven wrong in the so called "fictional Bible".

Actually the story of Noah has. First off, that story was written by other cultures long before Jesus came around.

Plagiarism aside, the flood was only regional and not global. Soil samples proved that. Also, how did Noah get two of every animal on board? How did the penguins make the trek from the frozen wastelands to the barren desert? How did any animal not indigenous to the region even survive, let alone make the journey? Did your God "zap" them there, or did Noah build a wooden plane fueled by prayers to transport them? It's amazing that Noah had each species diets on hand as well.

Sorry, but the burden of proof lies with the church.

zFlynn, to get a complete answer you will need to visit your local Christian church and talk to the pastor.

All of your references, are old testament, When Jesus came and was crucified, then rose again, it is His blood that wiped away all the old testament laws and we are now all forgiven in the eye's of God.

I've never seen so many idiots in consensus with each other. The nature of beliefs is that they all contradict. Religion, politics, etc. They disagree, and by spreading politics we spread our beliefs on others. That is the nature of religion as well you fools. There is a separation of church and state just as well as you cannot restrict religion.

Freedom of speech and the first amendment saying you cannot restrict religion trump the vague phrase of separation of church and state. You cannot establish, but these girls are not establishing, just spreading. What a sad world we would live in if we could not spread our beliefs. That is the basis of the first amendment, and anyone who disagrees is, as far as I'm concerned, un-American.

musing depends on what religion if any you choose, Jews only recognize the old test...so and so forth. Christians go by both but the new test, is recognized as the new law since Jesus was crucified which began the Christian faith.

The old does portray the rath God has for those who do not obey his commands as the Israelites did during their time roaming the desert...etc etc...but basically believe what you want...free choice in America

The argument isn't whether or not you have the same belief system. The argument is"... the constitutional separation of church and state", which is not part of the Constitution. The "separation of church and state" was coined in a letter to the church at Danbury.

The current interpretation of the phrase is contradictory to the first amendment, which limits government involvement in religion and limits any religion becoming a state religion.

The First Amendment prohibits the making of any law respecting an establishment of religion, (not applicable in this case) impeding the free exercise of religion, (the goal of the lawsuit) abridging the freedom of speech,(which the lawyers seem to be concentrating on) infringing on the freedom of the press, (not applicable in this case) interfering with the right to peaceably assemble (not applicable in this case) or prohibiting the petitioning for a governmental redress of grievances.( not applicable in this case).

I believe what these tea party cult members have to consider is that if they send their children in to intimidate with poster children in an attempt to recruit new members into their so called christian cults, then they better be prepared for muslims and every other religious cult sect to be able to do the very same thing at all their school events going forward into the future.

WORM MEAT... since the old testament was written( for lack of a better word) more than 3,000 years BC.. I believe the rules were to keep folks inline..and the new testament was written 300 years AD.. so I thi9nk this is as someone said mostly fiction.. Matthew, Mark, Luke and John were written by WHOM...

iPOV.. now the MORMON has violate all of the rules..they maitain their tax exempt status even after giving to a political group in Calif.. yes they gave that group 8 million dollars.to make certain that PROP 8 did not pass.. and yet in another comment someone stated that the OLD TESTAMENT is just laws.. so homosexuality is ok with them..

LOL christians telling me what I can and cannot do is a JOKE... as a member of organized religion you can believe what ever yu want.. YOU may not infringe on my privacy by trying to get me to believe the things you do.if your religion does not believe in womens right that's fine.. don't pester me eith that crap. and it also has no place in my gov.....

How are Christians telling you what to do ? How are they forcing you to do anything in life ? They holding you down with a gun to your head ?

Why do people always use this line ? Christians are forcing their garbage down my throat ....!!! Its such a wild picture to imagine in my mind that christians would do that .

Just say you dont agree with Christian views.. No one is forcing you to do anything.

There were no kids offended. Read the article, they do not have any plaintiffs to go against this.

Your being offended does not stop me from saying what I want to, Nazi.

You can't just say anything you want to, you know?

I also have to wonder...just exactly who was offended by these banners? Let me guess. Someone posted a picture of the banner on their Facebook page, then next thing you know, someone in Wisconsin sees it and says to themself "self, I think I'll complain about that religious stuff down in Texas." Good Lord, doesn't Ms. Gaylor have enough to keep her busy in Wisconsin?

I'm not offended by the banner, I'm offended that there is state endorsement of religion, which is against the constitution.

Don't try to warp the issue.

Apparently yes someone was offended and Sent a copy of the video to the groups that called for this to stop.

There not willing to be named though because you Christians get insane when someone dares fight for there equal rights. Just look up Jessica Ahlquist to see what you "moral righteous " religion does to people that question them.

Um, yeah, you pretty much can. Offensive speech is protected speech. The SCOTUS has ruled that government cannot punish inflammatory speech unless that speech is directed to inciting, and is likely to incite, imminent lawless action in Brandenburg v. Ohio. The SCOTUS also has ruled in Tinker v. Des Moines Independent Community School District that "It can hardly be argued that either students or teachers shed their constitutional rights to freedom of speech or expression at the schoolhouse gate." Just because the students are in school uniform at a school sponsored event doesn't mean they have to give up their rights to free speech. Now if the school was directing them to use the banners with bible versus then there could be an argument against that.

Christians never let that pesky Matthew 6:6 get in the way. You know the one, the one that says to blare out your prayers as loud as you can...oh wait, that isn't what it says:

But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.

How embarrassing for you.

Just because the students are in school uniform at a school sponsored event doesn't mean they have to give up their rights to free speech.

They are in uniform, in an area restricted to non-school personnel, acting as school representatives. It's near the edge, but I'd say very much a school endorsement of religion.

They are in uniform, in an area restricted to non-school personnel, acting as school representatives. It's near the edge, but I'd say very much a school endorsement of religion.

Seeing as how the Superintendent has told the cheerleaders that they cannot put bible versus on the banners, I would say the school is not endorsing anything. The SCOTUS has ruled that neither students nor faculty give up their rights to freedom of speech when they come on school campus so allowing the students to put bible versus on banners at football games is not an endorsement of that, it is a recognition that they have the constitutional right to do so.

I don't care if the banners said "religion is dumb", I would still fight for their constitutional right to free speech. Denying ANYONE their constitutional rights means denying EVERYONE their rights.

Children don't have the same constitutional rights. Don't believe me? Check out the 'Bong Hits for Jesus' case...

Falconer:

Please look up what that verse REALLY means.

Matthew 6:1 "Be careful not to practice your righteousness in front of others to be seen by them. If you do, you will have no reward from your Father in heaven."

It's discouraging praying for the simple reward of other people seeing/hearing you pray. Like, if you see a pretty girl wearing a cross necklace, don't pray for the purpose of her hearing you. Pray to God only for the purpose of your relationship with him. In fact, the bible tells you to spread the word.

So, do you think the girls had the intention of displaying the banners so people would like them more? If not, how embarrassing for you?

I think that the judge made the wrong decision in this case. The fact that these cheerleaders are wearing a school uniform makes them official representatives of the school which means that by displaying these banners the school is effectively endorsing their religious views. The reason they are having trouble finding a plaintiff is that there have been threats made against anyone who dares to try and stop this. This is just another example of why this is so wrong, there are people who are offended by these banners that are members of the community but they are being intimidated into not expressing their views. The display of these banners by the cheerleaders is a pretty clear violation of the separation of church and state. This is no different than if the school allowed students to post passages from scripture in the halls of the school, it is not permissible and should be stopped.

The SCOTUS has ruled that neither students nor faculty give up their rights to freedom of speech when they come on school campus so allowing the students to put bible versus on banners at football games is not an endorsement of that, it is a recognition that they have the constitutional right to do so.

Exercising one aspect of your rights does not give credence to your violation of someone else's. You cannot take away from the schools involvement by saying, "they told them not to do it." That is like saying, I told my child not to urinate on your car" and then standing back and watching them urinate on it. This is a school sponsored event, they are in school uniforms and on school property. This is clearly a case of a school sanctioning their actions.

And by your interpretation of the SCOTUS ruling, it would be perfectly acceptable for a teacher to walk into school and start preaching to the students during class. After all, by your interpretation it is that teachers right to do so.

A town of 2100 people - must be a real power house football team.

When they lose is it God's (pick one) fault?

They are in uniform, in an area restricted to non-school personnel, acting as school representatives. It's near the edge, but I'd say very much a school endorsement of religion.

EngEsq:

Actually I think it is the opposite. These students are using their first amendment rights; a right that most atheists only think belongs to them.

Why should these students have to check their religious freedom at the door? No one else does. By allowing no religion at school, are you saying that only the religion of atheism is upheld?

Where is that written in the constitution?

No Fred Evil...

All the non-Christians have to do is turn their backs... Just like I turn the channel on the TV when Jersey Shore or Operation Repo come on.

Don't give me that BS about "free speech". If I lived in that town and went to that school, I would make up a big ass "Allah Be Praised" sign and parade it around in front of the crowd. Not because I'm a Muslim, rather it would be to challenge the idea that this whole debate was about free speech. I'll bet that freedom of speech would be quickly - if not violently - challenged in that instance. Let's not pretend it wouldn't be.

You agree with scripture being present as long as its your faith. What if it was Muslim scripture paraded before students calling for Allah and mohammed? Still okay in your book?

Funny thing is here in Arkansas, our students have been told time and time again that our constitutional rights are not applicable when it comes to school. We do not have a right to free speech, just like we do not have a right to bear arms. This held true even if we were 18 and considered adults.

On a side note, as an American citizen and a taxpayer am I not entitled to feel offended when an organization that receives financial support from either local, state, or the federal government in any way, shape, or form encourages any kind of religious aspect. Everson v. Board of Education... But ofcourse a Republican nominee for the recent presidential race would have no problem ignoring parts of the constitution and the supreme court rulings.

Squireboy: " Denying ANYONE their constitutional rights means denying EVERYONE their rights."

By promoting religion at the school during school events they are effectivly denying everyone else their constitutional freedoms. I'm curious as to which supreme court ruling you are refering to about students and teachers not giving up their right of free speech. I ask because as I stated at the beginning that is still practiced and heavily enforced here in the Republican state I live in.

If you go to Max Preps - many of the schools they play are Christian schools - looks like they are just trying to keep up with the Jones'.

Newton is their next opponent - they are 6 and 0...Looks like Kountze better start praying they don't get fed to the lions - oh wait, Kountze team is the Lions.

I am a retired Texas teacher – believe me there are more students
and community members offended by these type of religious dogma than you can image. One simple student example: after a history lesson considering “human acceptance” (in conjunction with the Salem Witch Trials) Sally (fictitious name), a junior at Lorena HS approached me and said, “you are the only teacher in this school district that make me feel safe and human because I am not a Christian. Why does everyone (including my teachers) hate me simply because I don’t believe in the bible as the word of The ONE and ONLY GOD”!!!!

Our founding fathers were wise to establish religious freedom within the contextual frame work of “Separation of Church and State” – government
simple does not work as an appendage of religion (any religion)!!!!!

Exercising one aspect of your rights does not give credence to your violation of someone else's.

Exactly who's rights were being violated by the cheerleader's having a banner with a bible verse?

And by your interpretation of the SCOTUS ruling, it would be perfectly acceptable for a teacher to walk into school and start preaching to the students during class. After all, by your interpretation it is that teachers right to do so.

Not my interpretation, the SCOTUS's, and yes the teacher would have the right to do so. The school couldn't fire the teacher for what they were saying but I think they could easily fire them for what the teacher wasn't doing, and that would be teaching whatever subject they were hired to teach.

Freedom From Religion Foundation = Worthless leftist liberal self imagined know it all do gooders from out of town trying to impose their view of morality on a small Texas town that obviously got along just fine for years without their sticking their atheist noses into the schools affairs! These girls were not hurting anybody. I will most likely be collapsed for this by the lefties, but at least I said my piece!

I get really tired of reading and listening to these yahoo's who have no idea the meaning our forefathers had when they wrote the first amendment concerning the seperation of church and state.

Over the years, the SCOTUS has watered down the first amendment, to appease the liberals. I suggest you read the history of why people came here in the first place.

Ever hear of the Church of England? Russian Orthodox Church? To name two. These are State sponsored religions. Our forefathers did not want a Church of the United States, but to allow people to have their own religious freedoms.

Get a clue people. Our country was founded on christian values. Next we will be hearing the atheists and liberals wanting to take the word God off of our money.

In God we Trust, all others cash.

I'm curious as to which supreme court ruling you are refering to about students and teachers not giving up their right of free speech. I ask because as I stated at the beginning that is still practiced and heavily enforced here in the Republican state I live in.

I too live in Arkansas, and remember being told in school that I basically had no rights while I was on campus. The supreme court case I was citing is Tinker v. Des Moines.

Ah yes... isn't it grand that xians are never trying to cram thier mindless cult nonsense down the throats of everyone?

it's a goddam football game, and they still have this craving/need to splash BuyBull quotes all over everything they can...

unbelievable.

Since many of the schools they play are private Christian schools - could this have started out as an attempt to mock the Christian schools? So who is the joke on - everyone.

Think I'll go to the next game with a Buddha statue and burn incense in the stands.

And the cheer leaders cheer, "Go, Kountze, Go!" Or maybe that's what the football team cheers...? Priceless.

all people have to do is read the US constitution but i guess they would rather someone else tell them what is not in it.

Article the third [Amendment I]Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;or abridging the freedom of speech,or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

does anyone understand that it says "congress?" not "state" or "schools."

"Logic Required": There was a complaint from someone in the community who notified the Freedom from Religion Foundation. The reason why there is no one bringing it to court is that they have to go public, and quite frankly very nasty things have been done to people and families who dare to speak up in conservative Christian communities.

seriously...do you have any concept of what you are saying? Out of all the comments of the hopelessly misguided xtians, this is the worst and most offensive. The right to be free from religious intolerance and xtian domination. Pretty sure that one is kind of important and decided over and over again by higher courts than this one. If a teacher began proselytizing in class then the school most certainly has grounds to fire them.

please provide evidence of christians going after someone who was going after them, not individuals but as a group. id like to read about these"nasty things" you say they are doing.

Kurt-3637322 xtians

what are "xtians?" is that some sort of lazy mans term for christianity? you embarrass not only yourself for not having the respect to use the proper term but you insult every christian who would still accept you.

Squireboy

Exactly who's rights were being violated by the cheerleader's having a banner with a bible verse?

They are violating my rights and any other taxpayer who does not wish to support any aspect of religion. That would also include any catholic that doesn't wish to support the protestants or baptists. Pretty much anyone from any religion...

tea1959: Get a clue people. Our country was founded on christian values.

No, hon, it wasn't... What a funny post. Let's take a closer, more accurate look out our Founders and their Documents. (And, NO! I won't consider those "quotes" that have been edited by Falwell and Robertson that you found on their
websites...SORRY!)

The Founders NEVER agreed that Christianity was the singular religion in America or that they used Christian inspiration in the Founding. Nice try at rewriting history...what is the Smithsonian to you...an empty building?

Did someone give you the impression that the Framers were bashful, or reluctant to put their most cherished values into the writings that Founded this country?? Did your brainwashed, mindless xian cohorts see somewhere, in the primary Founding documents of this Country, something that looked like "bible" to you???

Are you aware that in the Four Primary documents laying the Foundation of this country: 1) The Bill of Rights, 2) The Declaration of Independence, 3) The Articles of Confederation and 4) the US Constitution -- that nowhere, NOWHERE in ANY OF THEM, will you find any of these words: christ, bible, jesus, christianity. NOWHERE.

This value that you seem to think they AGREED UPON never shows up ANYWHERE in the primary, most influential documents that Founded this country. So, instead of dealing with reality, you lie, and say they are there in spirit because one of the Framers wrote some crap about your mythical jesus creature on a cocktail napkin or in a letter to his Aunt Phyllis!

Jefferson thought the Bible was so full of mythical garbage, that he re-wrote his own version (published, and called the Jefferson Bible) to distill out the basic "Golden Rule" teachings and to eliminate the superstitious deity-BS. Yet, adding to or subtracting from the Bible was out-and-out blasphemy to any true believer at that time!! But, the uneducated will absolutely demand that Framers like Jefferson believed that the jesus-myth was the son of god, when he clearly did not. Jefferson loved the moral teachings and thought the spiritual teachings were bunk and corrupted, claiming many times that Paul (the largest alleged contributor to the NT) was the biggest fraud and “first corruptor to the doctrines of jesus”. In the Jefferson Bible, miracles and references to the Trinity and the divinity of jesus are notably absent. The Jefferson Bible begins with an account of the mythical jesus-birth without references to angels, genealogy, or prophecy. The work ends with the words: "Now, in the place where he was crucified, there was a garden; and in the garden a new sepulchre, wherein was never man yet laid. There laid they Jesus. And rolled a great stone to the door of the sepulchre, and departed." There is no mention of the resurrection. --– hardly the position of a true christian. Anyway…

In fact, our Founding documents prove that he (and the others) did not feel as you claim. The Framers AGREED to use terminologies consistent with Deists, which is what many of the Founding Fathers were. They didn't use biblical terminologies. They used phrases and references like this one, found in the Declaration of Independence: “When in the Course of human events it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them…”

Ooops. Forgot that, didn't you...

Not the biblical “jesus”…but the Deist reference to “Nature’s God and the Laws of Nature”.

If you’d even like further proof of the non-Christian intent and non-Christian foundation of this government, look to a very well-known treaty, the Treaty of Peace and Friendship between the United States of America and the Bey and Subjects of Tripoli of Barbary, unanimously ratified by the Congress of the United States, June 10, 1797. It’s here:

http://www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/diplomacy/barbary/bar1796t.htm

In that treaty is this language in Article 11: As the government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian Religion, as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion or tranquility of Musselmen, and as the said States never have entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mehomitan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries.

Wow! Put your spin on that all you like. In fact, spin it like you always spin phrases in the Bible. Give it your usual “it says that, but it doesn’t really mean that…in fact, it means the exact opposite, that the US was founded on christianity…blah blah blah. Someone just forgot to tell our ENTIRE US CONGRESS at that time…” LOL!! (You’ll note that none of our official treaties or Congressional documents states the reverse…)

Anyway…attempt to rewrite (or ignore) history all you like. You cannot change the well known official writings and founding documents, recorded for all time, no matter how much it chaps your butt... No amount of mumbling into your hands to your cult-god will change it, either. It is what it is.

tea1959 had this to say:

I get really tired of reading and listening to these yahoo's who have no idea the meaning our forefathers had when they wrote the first amendment concerning the seperation of church and state.

Fine, then go read what the Founding Fathers had to say about the issue, themselves. They said, baldly, that the United States is a secular government. Period. That is what they, themselves, said.

It was said in the Treaty of Tripoli, and it was said again in Congress when they were debating Sunday mail service. They, themselves, believed that the government was supposed to be secular and to espouse no religious view whatsoever because all citizens--whether they were Catholic, Protestant, adhered to some other faith, or were atheists--were all citizens of the country and equally protected.

Thomas Jefferson spelled it out in the letter to the Danbury Baptist Association in 1802. James Madison spelled it out in a debate in the House of Representatives in 1789 when they were drafting the First Amendment. Jefferson also spelled it out in 1786 in the Virginia Act for Establishing Religious Freedom.

If a governmental body allows members of one group to espouse their own views in an official manner, imposing those views on others, then this is a problem. As someone else recommended, one could put up a sign praising Allah for the successes of the football team--and it is very likely that (in Texas) one would have a riot. The point is that the majority in that school is imposing their views on the minority of that school through an implicit threat of violence, bullying, and ostracism. That is in violation of the Constitution.

Sadly, because it is so common for people to be beaten and murdered in Texas for not going along with the majority (there are a lot of "suicides" and "fires" and "car accidents"), it isn't likely that anyone is going to subject his or her child to this kind of issue. The minute the child graduates, the case goes moot--it takes a decade or more to prosecute such a case. We'd be talking about a child who is, perhaps, in fourth grade right now. All the bullies have to do is make that child so miserable that the parents move away--case closed.

They have prayer in schools in Louisiana, Mississippi, and Texas by using this method. It is wrong. It is un-American. And they are going to do it anyway because they do not believe in Jefferson's views (Texas has had him written out of the history books), and they choose to rewrite history so as to make themselves happy. Whatever it is that you think the Founding Fathers thought appears to come from this re-written history.

Go read what the Founding Fathers said and wrote themselves--they were eloquent men and they were not shy on this subject. Go read it for yourself--because you are dead wrong, friend. Learn something new.

Some one in the neighborhood complained to Wisconsin to solve their problems in Texas. Sound like minority rule to me. What was our government based on, you all bonehead liberals forget about that when it does not suit you. If it ain't none of your business keep out of it. I see the liberals for freedom and democracy tearing it all down one lie at a time. By the way noodle-heads, the supreme court can rule on federal matters but according to this incident there were no federal funds expending or supporting the actions and no endorsment by the school. It is not like the school made a rule to get around existing laws or supported the banners. Saying God in school is not the promotion of God.

No where in the United States Constitution does it say "separation of church and state"
In amendment one it says:
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion" They can't make laws that promote or benefit a religion
"or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech" They also can't make laws prohibiting religion either. If the court ruls against this, they will be prohibiting the exercise thereof and abridging their freedom of speech
"or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petion the Government for a redress of grievances" The complainers have the right to bring it up and say something about it if they believe it might be against this amendment.

The school isn't paying and having laws written to promote and benifit these people, they are exercising their right of religion and are protected, as it is a form of speech. If you don't like religion fine, but you don't have to shove it down everyone elses throats. From the name "Freedom from Religion Foundation" I can tell you, they are obviously anti religion. Well what if people started a group called "Freedom from the non-religious"?

If they really cared about the constituion, they would realize they trample on it all the time. Freedom of Religion and Speech are two important parts of the constitution, but it seems some hate that fact.

They talk about "tolerance" yet they show none for people of faith, maybe it's time religious people speak up and start being a little less tolerant, becasuse I can tell you right now, those with no faith, have no tolerance for those who do have faith.

Squireboy: " Denying ANYONE their constitutional rights means denying EVERYONE their rights."

By promoting religion at the school during school events they are effectivly denying everyone else their constitutional freedoms.

1. I think it would be hard to argue that the school was promoting religion by allowing the cheerleaders signs. It could be argued that the school simply recognized their constitutional right to freedom of speech. The SCOTUS has pretty clearly ruled in several cases concerning students what can be limited. A couple of examples are a) indecent speech, such as a students sexual innuendo laced speech during a student assembly, in Bethel School District v. Fraser, and b) promotion of illegal drug use in Morse v. Frederick.

2. Exactly who's constitutional freedoms are being denied by allowing the cheerleaders to have bible versus on a banner. Last I checked there was not a constitutional freedom FROM religion outlined in either the Constitution or by the SCOTUS.

@DMorgan

that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with
certain inalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit
of happiness.

Ooops, guess you forgot that!

CHruch and Stae were spearated long ago to prevent this type of BS as well as give equal privledge to all to practice whatever religion they want too. Hence YES, these Students are breaching the laws of this land by promoting the Bible and God in school.

If they want to do so on personal vehicles fine, but not once they enter the school! Such is against our Constitution, the Bill of Rights and the LAW.

And please, someone teach these children that God cannot be sold for he is in our hearts and watches over us. And that the attempt to sell or promote him in illegal ways is not What HE wants or stands for.

You cannot push God onto someone else and this is what these kids are trying to do! In fact the more you push the more they may push him out of another's heart! What these kids are doing is Propoganda and that is not what God stands for!!!!

Dear Mothersir, you are wrong in this instance, thoroughly wrong! You are projecting your personal agenda and that does not help these girls learn Right from Wrong, Law or against the Law!

Zim123

They are violating my rights and any other taxpayer who does not wish to support any aspect of religion. That would also include any catholic that doesn't wish to support the protestants or baptists. Pretty much anyone from any religion...

Please explain exactly how this violates your rights? Is it because bible versus offend you? If so, sorry, but offensive speech is protected as free speech. Please I would like you to cite specific case law that shows that this is violating your rights. I'm not trying to antagonize you I'm very interested in seeing some case law that could support your claim that this is a violation of your rights. If it existed then this could be a clear cut case in favor of the Freedom From Religion crowd.

In the ruling of Everson v. Board of Education.

law.cornell.edu/supct/html/historics/USSC_CR_0330_0001_ZO.html
needs a www. NBC doesn't allow the link w/ www though

halfway down the page you will find this little golden nugget that is also echoed in the dissenting opinions.

The "establishment of religion" clause of the First Amendment means at least
this: neither a state nor the Federal Government can set up a church. Neither
can pass laws which aid one religion, aid all religions, or prefer one religion
over another. Neither can force nor influence a person to go to or to remain
away from church against his will or force him to profess a belief or disbelief
in any religion. No person can be punished for entertaining [p16] or professing religious beliefs or disbeliefs, for
church attendance or non-attendance. No tax in any amount, large or small, can
be levied to support any religious activities or institutions, whatever they may
be called, or whatever form they may adopt to teach or practice religion.
Neither a state nor the Federal Government can, openly or secretly, participate
in the affairs of any religious organizations or groups, and vice versa. In the
words of Jefferson, the clause against establishment of religion by law was
intended to erect "a wall of separation between church and State." Reynolds
v. United States, supra, at 164.

Funny how folks like to literally interpret the constitution, but when it comes to the bible, they ignore the 2nd commandment, Thou shall have no other gods before me - which means, don't pray to some Jewish dude named Jesus regardless of how cool he was.

Even the Muslims pray to G-d and say Jesus and Mo were prophets.

Repent now you heathens.

Texas Warren...
Stalin didn't murder millions of people because they were Christian or because he was an atheist. That's entirely different than when nut bags murder in the name of religion.

What I find bothersome about cases like this is that these cheerleaders actively chose to inject their religion into a public situation where they had to know that it was not to everyone's choosing. If may or may not be constitutionally legal, but it is certainly rude and bad form. Not everyone is a christian or wants to be, ergo...do not try and inject it into public venues. It reminds me of that woman In Pennsylvania that wore her unconcealed sidearm to a small children's soccer match. Sure...it's legal...but who does stupid crap like that knowing that many parents don't want any guns around their small children. That's just bad form.

Teabag1959 - that quote is not a quote from an official US government document. It is from the Declaration of Independence which predates the USA. I think that you should find it much more compelling that the word "god" is not mentioned in our Constitution even though many of the founders were Christians. They likely had to work very hard to consciously leave it out especially considering its inclusion as "creator" in the declaration.

Zim123

Everson isn't a freedom of speech issue nor is it a case that Shows that the cheerleaders having a bible verse violates your individual rights which you claimed were violated. Moreover there are numerouse supreme court cases which deal with freedom of speech issues in public schools which have been decided after Everson.

It is amazing how many people seem to support fascism in this chat stream. To support ANY government endorsement (or the appearance thereof) is in direct opposition of the constitution. This is exactly what Fascism is - imposing one religion on everyone. I will believe that it is not ONLY when the same people support the muslim minority's right to display their religious slogans at the game. Like that will ever happen.

And for you morons out there - 6% of Texas is muslim. Gosh - how horrible.

Freedom is great isn't it. They are free to believe and worship their God and others are free to not believe, but no one should be able to force their non belief by stifling another's belief in religion and their right to display it if it isn't hurting anyone, they pay taxes too for the public schools just as the none believers do. This Country was founded on freedom of religion and our forefathers that fought and created this great nation were believers and God is mentioned in our many founding documents. Are you offended when you look at a dollar bill ? Get over it....please. I say if public schools want to erase God and religion from all public schools, then I say give all religious people their tax money back that they pay for public schools to use it to pay for a religious education for their kids. Many have to struggle to pay their high city or county taxes that include the taxes for the schools while struggling to pay to send their kids to a religious school for education without a credit for not going to a public school.

This is all about left wing loony so called progressives that think their way is the right way, there is no God, all religions should be ended and we'll all live happily ever after. That'll only be happening their left wing loony minds. You know what, I feel sorry for them and I even respect their freedom to think that as long as they respect our freedom of religion. Life for them must be a real bummer thinking you go through all you have to go through, learning, living and loving and just like that it's over in a blink of an eye no matter how long you live, then there's nothing. nothing at all. They have to wonder what's the use at times. I tend to think the reason they dislike religious display is that it makes them feel bad, make them wonder and makes them feel guilty and confused that just maybe they're wrong.

I wonder, do they blame God, the coach, the players or the cheerleaders when they lose or perhaps they credit the opposition maybe they prayed harder or had better signs?

I am pretty sure that faith does not win football games and if there is a "God" I hope he has better things to do.

It too bad this nation spends so much time and effort putting Christianity on display and so little time actually living by Christian principles.

squireboy

They are in uniform, in an area restricted to non-school personnel, acting as school representatives. It's near the edge, but I'd say very much a school endorsement of religion.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Seeing as how the Superintendent has told the cheerleaders that they cannot put bible versus on the banners, I would say the school is not endorsing anything. The SCOTUS has ruled that neither students nor faculty give up their rights to freedom of speech when they come on school campus so allowing the students to put bible versus on banners at football games is not an endorsement of that, it is a recognition that they have the constitutional right to do so.

I don't care if the banners said "religion is dumb", I would still fight for their constitutional right to free speech. Denying ANYONE their constitutional rights means denying EVERYONE their rights.

@squire

i would disagree. If u are at a school sanction event then yes the school is endorsing it. It doesn't matter if it's on school property or not. If some tragedy was to occur not brought on by the negligence of the individual, do you not think the school would be held responsible ?

I don't understand why the cheerleaders would even attempt to cross the line unless they are trying to make a statement against separation of state and church.

A Yank in Australia

I wonder, do they blame God, the coach, the players or the cheerleaders when they lose or perhaps they credit the opposition maybe they prayed harder or had better signs?

I am pretty sure that faith does not win football games and if there is a "God" I hope he has better things to do.

Do u really care ?

Actually, WhiteMenace, you should reread the article. The reason their is no available complainant is due to a sense of intimidation by the community. Which, with respect to their belief in free speech as stated by said community, is an astoundingly un-American happenstance. No community should make dissenting opinion insecure to the point at which they fear engenderment of their free speech rights.

Your screen name is, in many ways, an example of a kind of societal threat toward engendering one's first amendment processes.

Debt Destroyer: If you don't like religion fine, but you don't have to shove it down everyone elses throats.

Then, do you have the courage to acknowledge the same for YOUR side? If you DO like religion, FINE, but you don't have to shove it down everyone else's throats.

It's a public school event. It's cheerleaders, for crying out loud. The BuyBull BS doesn't need to be there anymore than banners supporting science and evolution need to be posted above your church's pulpit!

You xians really need to develop some courage and self-esteem. The "shoving it down your throat" crap goes both ways! Have the integrity to keep is out of the public square. You people already have tax-free cult buildings on practically every corner in every city, full of signs with BuyBull scriptures and other mindless sayings and advertisements. Nobody can drive to the store or back and forth to work without reading several church yard signs full of mindless religious drivel already... Why do you people have to act so cowardly as to convince school cheerleaders to bleat your mindless cult messages at school sports events?

Charlie: It too bad this nation spends so much time and effort putting Christianity on display and so little time actually living by Christian principles.

Wow. That was worth repeating. I've met a lot of christians in name, but never have I met one, NOT ONE, who lived their values every day. Liars, frauds... Their mythical jesus creature spoke more about shunning wealth, turning away from hoarding material things, and giving excess to poor people. Show me the xians who do that! If you drive past any christian cult building on a Sunday, the lot is full of Range Rovers, Cadillacs, Mercedes SUVs... the doors fly open and as the kids pour out, you'll see thousnds of dollars in Sharper Image toys and nonsense come pouring out with them. christians are all about Hoarding Wealth and amassing earthly/material goods. Among all the other crap they violate/ignore in their cult book. They certainly seem to be all about denigrating gay people, because they think they don't have any gays in their own family, so it won't inconvenience themselves to enforce that One Law which they've twisted their scripture enough to interpret as anti-gay, but they ignore virtually everything else their jesus-myth prohibits and speaks out against.

But, that's christians for ya. All about hate, denigrating others, and making sure they hoard the wealth. If there really was a jesus, there's hardly a single christian anywhere that he'd want in his heaven for an eternity.

Jessicalc,

Please look up what that verse REALLY means.

Thats a funny statement, as the Bible has changed through the centuries and every verse in the thing can be spun to maen whatever the reader wants. Try again.

It's discouraging praying for the simple reward of other people seeing/hearing you pray. Like, if you see a pretty girl wearing a cross necklace, don't pray for the purpose of her hearing you. Pray to God only for the purpose of your relationship with him. In fact, the bible tells you to spread the word.

That your spin, I'm sure I can find someone else who has a different interpretation. Thats how the Bible has been used for centuries to persecute others.

So, do you think the girls had the intention of displaying the banners so people would like them more?

Peer pressure is an awful thing. If one of those girls came out and said she believed they shouldn't be doing that she would be ostracized by the good, loving "Christians" of that town. You only need pick up the paper and see how "good, god fearing Christians" act towards those that threaten their house of cards.

If not, how embarrassing for you?

No, not at all. It's YOUR faith that screams when others, Muslims for instance, want equal religious rights. And its YOUR faith that screams persecution when they are required to follow the law. Christians in the US are a punchline, a slowly dying punchline.

squireboy: Please explain exactly how this violates your rights? Is it because bible versus offend you? If so, sorry, but offensive speech is protected as free speech

Not in a public, tax-supported school, punkin. If you had an education, you'd know that. There are many cases that support the position...

One well-known case (of several) is Santa Fe Independent School District v. Doe, 530 U.S. 290 (2000). It ruled that a policy permitting student-initiated prayer at high school football games violates the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment, and that was in a 6-3 decision of the Supreme Court. So, offensive speech is NOT free speech, as you like to suggest it is. And, there are many other similar cases.

Ever since the Supreme Court struck down organized school prayer in the 1960's, the lowlife christians all over this country, with their low self-esteem and failing confidence in their cult beliefs, have been trying to crowbar their cult nonsense back into public schools...

...I guess the weekend brainwashing they do to kids inside church buildings isn't working well enough.

Falconer:

But Matthew 6:1 "Be careful not to practice your righteousness in front of others to be seen by them. If you do, you will have no reward from your Father in heaven." is quite clear. This is NOT an interpretation. Your quote above is taken out of context. When coupled with this verse, as it should be, it is not open to interpretation. It clearly says "to be seen by them". So, please tell me how you can "spin" this verse?

You didn't answer my question:

So, do you think the girls had the intention of displaying the banners so people would like them more?

You gave a reason on why one of the girls wouldn't oppose it, even if they felt that way. But, my question was, did they display those banners so the town would like them more? As a collective group?

Personally, I don't care if you display banners giving thanks to Allah, or whomever. That is their right, their opinion, and quite frankly, it doesn't affect me one bit, so why would I care? EVERYONE is free to believe in, and EXPRESS their religion. Athiest? Muslim? I don't care. Everyone is too PC these days, and get their panties in a wad if something "offends" them.

Seriously, what is the harm done by a banner with words written on them? BTW- Muslims refer to Allah as "God", too. :)

All the non-Christians have to do is turn their backs

Not AT SCHOOL!! I guarantee there are offended kids who don't DARE mention they are offended! This is a PUBLIC SETTING, being supported by PUBLIC FUNDS!

Would all of you xtians have no problem if the kids wanted to quote the Q'uran?

I'll not hold my breath while you try and answer that one...

"They are violating my rights and any other taxpayer who does not wish to support any aspect of religion. That would also include any catholic that doesn't wish to support the protestants or baptists. Pretty much anyone from any religion..."

I'm a Catholic and I will support my brother Orthodox, Protestants, and Jews with my hard earned money against the radical atheists who scorn our belief in God and sneeringly refer to it as "fairy tales". If anything, the scorn heaped on Christians in these comments is equivalent to the "hate speech" that those who are supposedly so open minded and liberal claim that are defending the world against. What the radicals fail to see is that they are bringing Christians together in defense of the faith, as opposed to destroying religion. Radicals can only destroy; they can never achieve anything except discord.

From Zim's post regarding the Emerson decision:

No tax in any amount, large or small, can
be levied to support any religious activities or institutions, whatever they may
be called, or whatever form they may adopt to teach or practice religion

If this is true, then I would hold that tax deductions to religious organizations violate this decision, because allowing a lesser tax for one action is tantamount to taxing all other actions. The government should in no way be involved as to what is a "legitimate" religion and what is not.

They are the cheerleaders! What has scripture to do with cheering for a team? They are using their position to spread their faith. Why would you want to do that?

I agree, however, we live in the US with freedom of speech laws. As long as they aren't harassing people and trying to get them to convert I feel they have a legal right.

It's a violation of the separation of church and state. I have no problem with these girls believing whatever they want, but religious messages have no place at a PUBLIC school function! At a private school? Do what you like.

You really think that little pissant texas town will see the cheerleaders hold up signs for Mohammed?

That judge needs his knuckles whapped real hard with a real ruler!

the interesting legal question is, what trumps what, separation of church and state, or our freedom of speech? I am fairly sure freedom of speech trumps separation of Church and state. All though I agree with all of you, it is not the time and the place for this.

All religions insult all other religions by their vary nature. The central tenet in Christianity is that Islam, buddhism ect are wrong, and that those following that religion are going be tortured for ever and ever.

Also, what about kids that don't believe in a god. Would "There is no God." be an insult to religions. If so, then why is "There is a god," not an insult to atheists?

Also, those banners never had a buddhist saying, or a quote from the Koran. It's like saying that anyone is free to write on the black board, but only Christians are allowed in the room.

yourmother,

Agreed. Seems some of our liberal friends want to deny others freedom of speech and freedom of religion.

Mark,

If they are there and want to do it, Muslims have the right to do that also. Damn, there goes your..."argument".

and one by one our freedoms are being jeopardized. I am a successful woman who believes in God and somehow I should be ashamed of both. America is no longer the great country it once was. I am ashamed of my country.

cmbookworm,

Just because the cheerleaders or students attend a public school doesn't mean they can't express their own beliefs and opinions as long as they aren't pressed on others. There is no law regarding separation of church and state for those that are required by law to attend. Not to mention the football game is an extra curricular activity and no one including students is required to be there. They attend by their own choice. Now if a public school employee or teacher was to press or push their beliefs onto the children while at school or in the classroom, you may have a case for separation of church and state. A person expressing their own belief or opinion is a constitutional right as freedom of speech no matter where they do it. If anti war critics can, by law, picket next to a funeral for a fallen soldier under freedom of speech, this too should apply. If you disagree don't go to the game or bring your own sign.

NC, stop labeling us. I'm liberal. I am just more concerned about what the law says. That is what this whole situation is about.

if the cheerleaders start trying to convert people, that is where I would draw the line. They can believe what they want with their signs just like I can wear a cross or have a religious bumper sticker (not that I like opinionated bumper stickers). However, if I got out into traffic and started banging on people's windows to witness, that's intrusive and harassment.

I think if they want to hold up a sign in the stands it is one thing. But to bring it out on the field and have the team run through it is another. I am a christian, however what is gods is gods and what is ceasars is ceasars. I would be equally offended if they were holding up signs condoning satan worship. What is good for the goose is good for the gander.

If religion is allowed in public places it would be anarchy as every crazy religion would want to be represented.

I have a daughter and she attends a public high school. I told her that she needs to openly declare that she is a Christian and she should share her belief that Jesus Christ is Lord and Savior. In a sense, she is a walking banner declaring Jesus as her savior.

Sadden,

you need to learn a little more about the Supreme Court cases that defined the establishment clause. The fact that those exact words are not used in the constitution does not change the fact that the state cannot specifically endorse a religion.

This is a grey area. If the school allows any religion an opportunity to put up a sign, then there is no specific endorsement. However, since that is probably not the case, these people need to exercises their religious speech on their own time (not when being representatives for the school at a school sponsored event).

@Joe:

Indoctrination: Complete.

Oh Joe, your poor poor daughter.

crush, you make a good point. I think running around with it on the field makes it a part of the public event and it seems like the team itself is promoting it. Freedom of speech does not mean you have the right to voice your opinion as if it is the entire groups.

Joe, I am a Christian my self, but I am telling you kids that see the public school as the mission field are hated. Why? How do you feel when mormon's come up to your door? Invaded right? Offended because they are coming to your door and telling you that your religion is wrong. I feel the same way about evangulizing at school. The classroom is home for all the students. You should be able to go to school and not have concerns that you are going to be harassed about what you believe. I have also found the witnessing types have no tolerance for other beliefs. It's difficult to have a real conversation.

I don't mind discussions about what others believe, even in the classroom. I find it to be very healthy and a great learning experience. However, America's version of Christianity is very conceded. Unfortunately a lot Christians really do not understand how their behavior looks to others.

Sadden American- The separation of church and state comes from judicial decisions interpreting the First Amendment's non-establishment clause. If you read Common Sense and the notes of the Constitutional Convention, you can see that the Founding Fathers were very concerned about any single denomination gaining the official backing of the government.

Hmmm...I wonder if it would be okay to have a sign that supports the other town's team and sit with it in the pews in a Christian church on Sunday? Somehow I bet they would put the kibosh on that lickity-split.

yourmother,

I believe that you are correct. Ultimately it will be their actions, words and life that is the true witness and nothing else!!

There is no separation of Church & State. Never has been.

Sadden American 2012

You are correct that the Constitution does not contain the actual words, "separation of church and state." However, your misconception lies within your ignorance of the constitution, its amendments (article 1) and the Supreme Court rulings that have continuously upheld Thomas Jefferson's interpretation as to the intent of the first amendment where it states, "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof." The intent of this amendment has been, and continues to be interpreted by the Supreme Court as a "wall of separation between church and state."

Sometimes you have to dig a little deeper than a newspaper for knowledge.

Homie D Clown

So wrong you are.

Sometimes you have to dig a little deeper than a newspaper for knowledge.

Homie D Clown you are just wrong. The establishment clause in the first amendment prohibits the government from establishing a religion. The term "wall seperation between Church and State" is from Thomas Jefferson explaining the intent of the establishment clause in a letter to the Danbury Babtist Association.

Sanctioned prayer by public schools or anyother branch of government is establishing a State religion and therefore unconstitutional. It is that simple.

Of course this does not individual student or groups of students from praying at schools during free time.

Remember when majority ruled and free speech allowed you to express your belief's?? That's those things we used to call democracy and liberty?? If 99.9% of the people see no problem with it, it is the .1% that is the problem.. We have been conditioned that the minority who piss and moan the loudest can tell everyone else what to do.. People every day are offended by someone else big deal, In NYC it is a way of life.. There has to be a line between what is detrimental to a person and what is just a minor annoyance that can be ignored.. If the sign said believe or be branded an infidel that would be the line crossed..

Are these christo-fascists dumb enough to sit around worshipping some low life entity that has nothing better to do than to sit around helping a bunch of inbreds win a high school football game?

Time to throw out the Renaissance vision of the white haired, bearded Aryan "god". Their new "god" is nothing more than a fat old guy wearing a wife-beater, holding a beer in one hand, remote in another, leaning back in a tattered old La-z-boy, simultaneously scratching his privates while belching.

His real name is "Jehovah"....but you can call him "Joe"....no one but his only begotten son to shave his back for him...poor old guy.

These pseudo-christians do nothing but mock and ridicule true Christianity. I hope they have football in hell.

Annie Laurie Gaylor and her wisconsin group want to cause trouble in a little town in Texas but their only issue is they cannot find a plaintiff. If the town has no problem with it then leave it alone and mind your own business phsco winch.

Joe-1858653

I have a daughter and she attends a public high school. I told her that she needs to openly declare that she is a Christian and she should share her belief that Jesus Christ is Lord and Savior. In a sense, she is a walking banner declaring Jesus as her savior.

You are the reason I have taught my child to tell people like your daughter exactly what they can do to themselves. After all, my child has the right not to be harassed by your daughter while attending school.

With that said, I happily support your daughter quietly waiting for others to approach her to receive her message of faith. She could even hold up a sign proclaiming her willingness to give them the word of God and I would have no problems with that. She just shouldn't do it to people who have no desire to hear what she has to say, or invade their space to do so.

Joe - I pity your daughter.

If "evangelicals" where true christians and actually lived a Christ-based life, there would be no need for them to proselytize. People would be automatically attracted to the example they set and beg to know how to live like they do. Those that are mentally forced into pushing their religion on others only show their own doubt and insecurity in the garbage they are trying push.

Sorry, joe...when I was in High School, it was the girls like your daughter that always showed up the next year knocked up. I hope you are also teaching her about contraception and safe-sex just in case she falls from the fake pedestal you have forced her on.

yourmothersir: I agree, however, we live in the US with freedom of speech laws. As long as they aren't harassing people and trying to get them to convert I feel they have a legal right.

Well, thankfully, your feelings don't represent LAW. They are in uniform, representing a school, and religious messages/preaching is not allowed in that circumstance. The freedom of speech doctrine isn't in effect when a puvlic school is concerned. Man-o-man, religious people are so goddam insecure and have such low self-esteem, they even need to use cheerleaders to preach at people. Unbelievable!

I can't wait to see the reaction when a school wants a banner that says Allah Akbar!!!

Sure, nobody in the town is coplaining because they don't want a cross burned on their yard.

Roadrunner0 had this to say:

Remember when majority ruled and free speech allowed you to express your belief's?? That's those things we used to call democracy and liberty?? If 99.9% of the people see no problem with it, it is the .1% that is the problem.. We have been conditioned that the minority who piss and moan the loudest can tell everyone else what to do

Thank you for very succinctly explaining why it was that the Constitution was deemed unacceptable by the states and the Bill of Rights was added. The Founding Fathers feared that the rabble--your "majority" of 99.9%--would come to rule and would squash the civil liberties of the minority (let's remember that the Founding Fathers were pretty much the 1%).

The Bill of Rights is designed to protect the individual from the mob. That's what it was written for. That's what it does.

If you have 99.9% of people in a town who want to worship one way, they are perfectly free to have a celebration for the football team and the game--they can have it at their own church, and they can even have it on school grounds as long as they do not use the school's equipment or incorporate their activities into the game itself.

If the team wants to have a prayer meeting by itself, without using the speakers, off in the endzone before a game starts, they can do that. The 99.9% of people can choose to gather in the endzone, without the school's amplifiers, and they can do as they darned well please.

However, once the school event starts, then no individual or group which is serving in a capacity as a representative of the school can use that position to advocate for a specific religion.

The problem is that the cheerleaders are allowed to create signs for the celebration as they are "authorized." It is unlikely that anyone else is allowed to create a sign that the team runs through or to create a sign that is displayed on a banner hung on the fence. If they allowed "just anyone" to create such signs, I assure you that the satiric and nasty attitude of teenagers would result in some rather comic, but extremely insulting, signs and chants.

I can imagine things such as a chant for the team when it is a bit behind, but still "alive" for the game: "One . . . Two . . . Three, Four, Five / God is Dead / But We're Alive."

If individual students were allowed to bring hand-lettered signs to games (they probably aren't, for the reason just mentioned, but let's say that they are)--there is no problem whatsoever with the individual students choosing to use Bible verses (or verses from the Koran or from the Catholic liturgy or Satanic beliefs). But, as long as it is being done by students who are representatives of the school (and many cheerleaders have been deprived of their role as cheerleaders for doing things that reflect badly on the school, and they are regarded as representatives of the school and not individuals), there is an issue.

Look, this isn't a difficult idea. It isn't likely that just any student can express his or her idiosyncratic views by putting them up on the fence (and having them left) or to chant loudly enough for the entire crowd to hear or to create a banner for the team to run through. There is no history of it being done. Cheerleaders (like football players) are in uniform because they represent the school. When a person represents the school, then s/he cannot espouse political positions or religious positions while s/he is acting in that capacity.

In any case, 99.9% of the people in Texas aren't fundamentalist evangelical Christians. About 32% are Catholic (and use a different Bible translation), only 48% are "some other Christian" (which is lower than in the US overall). The people who claim "none" as a religion are 12%--much higher than overall in the US. So, again, your argument is invalid. Have a great day.

Holytape

All religions insult all other religions by their vary nature. The central tenet in Christianity is that Islam, buddhism ect are wrong, and that those following that religion are going be tortured for ever and ever.

you are just plain wrong that Christianity's central tenet is that all other religions are wrong, it says that nowhere in the bible but i does warn of false religions. why do people like you insist on disparaging followers of christ? i have been approached and witnessed other religions and i love to talk about god and the world because all religions besides a few have common seeds and all the monotheism religions have the same god, just different interpretations. if you dont like something then dont pay attention to it, its that simple. i have never in my life been harassed by any religion but i have been harassed by people who do not have faith.

Article the third [Amendment I]Congress shall make no law respecting an establishmentof religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;or abridging the freedom of speech,or of the press; or theright of the people peaceably to assemble, and topetition the Government for a redress of grievances.

so the SCOTUS can changed the constitution? you do realize the job of the SCOTUS is not to interpret the constitution for the citizen but for cases of law deriving from government. it has NO POWER to tell the citizens how to interpret the constitution. these are the powers of the SCOTUS and thats it;

Section. 1. The judicial Power of the United States shall be vested in one supreme Court, and in such inferior Courts as the Congress may from time to time ordain and establish. The Judges, both of the supreme and inferior Courts, shall hold their Offices during good Behaviour, and shall, at stated Times, receive for their Services a Compensation, which shall not be diminished during their Continuance in Office.

(this is where they have power to check the other branches)

Section. 2.The judicial Power shall extend to all Cases, in Law and Equity, arising under this Constitution, the Laws of the United States, and Treaties made, or which shall be made, under their Authority; — to all Cases affecting Ambassadors, other public Ministers and Consuls; — to all Cases of admiralty and maritime Jurisdiction; — to Controversies to which the United States shall be a Party; — to Controversies between two or more States; — between a State and Citizens of another State [Modified by Amendment XI]; — between Citizens of different States; — between Citizens of the same State claiming Land sunder Grants of different States, and between a State, or the Citizens thereof,and foreign States, Citizens or Subjects.

In all Cases affecting Ambassadors, other public Ministers and Consuls, and those in which a State shall be Party, the supreme Court shall have original Jurisdiction. In all the other Cases before mentioned, the supreme Court shall have appellate Jurisdiction, both as to Law and Fact, with such Exceptions, and under such Regulations as the Congresss hall make.

The Trial of all Crimes, except in Cases of Impeachment, shall be by Jury; and such Trial shall be held in the State where the said Crimes shall have been committed; but when not committed within any State, the Trial shall be at such Place or Places as the Congress may by Law have directed.

Section. 3.Treason against the United States shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court.

The Congress shall have Power to declare the Punishment of Treason, but no Attainder of Treason shall work Corruption of Blood, or Forfeiture except during the Life of the Person attainted.

so please show us where the SCOTUS can uphold an opinion of a founder(s)? this is it for the powers of the courts so i fail to see anything that can be interpreted as "separation of church and state." do you?

Jefferson also thought slavery was a GREAT idea! The truth is, he wrote the Danbury Letter to assure the Baptist's there that the government would not interfere with their religious convention. He did not randomly write the letter to interfere with religious freedoms or to declare Freedom from Religion, like today's radical atheists like to imply. However, to know about that, it would require reading an objectively written book on American government.

I guess if football becomes part of the federal guidelines for curriculum then it would be part of the school.. It seems to be more of a community activity sponsored by the school/community and the cheerleaders are routing for the team.. They are not employees of the school or city but more like volunteers..

My hope is this goes to the US supreme court and they clear up the confusion by siting law and the intent of the founding fathers.. The pesky bill of rights might play in this as well.. You remember the Life Liberty and Pursuit of Happiness thing..

I guess if football becomes part of the federal guidelines for curriculum then it would be part of the school..

What part of a school sponsored group in school provided uniforms on school property during a school sanctioned event is not part of the school?

so the SCOTUS can changed the constitution? you do realize the job of the SCOTUS is not to interpret the constitution for the citizen but for cases of law deriving from government. it has NO POWER to tell the citizens how to interpret the constitution. these are the powers of the SCOTUS and thats it;

Fail is fail. How do explain Citizens United then? You cannot can you? That is because your wrong.

@other idiots saying no sep of C&S

I get a laugh every time I head some indoctrinated cheese head come out and say "separation church and state blarrghhghaskldnaljsdbnfwjdasbnfiouawbnfoawubfidb cpaosfcn b!!!" Paraphrased of course. They would have no problem with us becoming the next Palestine.

This is a public function payed for by tax payer money. If they parents want their kids to be able to do this then force them to pay for all expenses to host these games.

Most people do not know the difference between an anti-theist and an atheists.

There are atheists who are content to live and let live.

Then there are atheists.

Anti-theists are atheists who actively seek to remove references to, and perhaps even someday the believers in "god or gods". It is very high on their list of priorities. And there is a huge push on the internet and in real life to limit and hopefully entirely erase religion.

They believe the world will not be safe or at peace until it is accomplished. I have found them to be very set in this belief and most to be quite driven in their goal. Christopher Hitchens was a very famous anti-theist. There are others like Richard Dawson, who is also quite assertive.

Correction. His name is not Richard Dawson. It is Richard Dawkins.

Gee -- when I went to high school the cheerleaders weren't exactly the poster children for "Christian" morality.

yourmothersir

I feel as long as they aren't insulting other people's religion, and as long as they allow other religions to do the same (again, not insulting other people's religion) it should be fine. However, again, as long as others are given the same freedom of speech I don't see a big problem.

So u would support satanical cults who may wish to do the same thing or neo-nazi christanity as long as they aren't insulting or disrespecting others.

NC - If they are there and want to do it, Muslims have the right to do that also. Damn, there goes your..."argument".

Oh yeah, right. Muslms are free to express their religious beliefs in Texas, especially at school events...

...knowing full well that the moment they get home, their house will be burned down, their kids kidnapped and raped (or dragged around behind a pickup-truck until they're dead) and several crossed will still be burning in what little lawn they have left.

Nobody is STUPID enough to believe that Texas (or The South for that matter) is some bastion of True Religious Freedom. You're only free to talk about the BuyBull down there. Anything else will get you swinging from a tree by your neck.

If these cheerleaders had Quran Quotes on their banners, we'd all be looking for their bodies right now, because the local Bubbas would have dragged them off someplace, and the crosses would have been burning in their family's lawns the very same night.

Beakeeper: And there is a huge push on the internet and in real life to limit and hopefully entirely erase religion.

Oh baloney. Stop with the lies. Keeping cultism where it belongs is a far cry form erasing it entirely. You have your tax-free cult buildings on every street corner of this nation! Stop with the lies and histrionics. Follow the friggin law and get some self-esteem. If your cult was worth a crap from the beginning, you wouldn't need to take such cowardly measures -- like using cheerleaders to spread your words and beliefs at sporting events -- in order to get your cult message out to people.

Remember, this country is governed by a Constitution, not your BuyBull or any other mythical cult book.

The seperation of Church and State is not legally binding, unless of course you can cite the law that forces individuals to refrain speaking or acting according to the 1st Amendment.

The seperation of Church and State was added to the Constitution to protect everyones religious freedoms or have you forgotten?

mom,

How did they violate separation of church and state? Be specific.

The kids are not the school.

You have a connection to USN/USMC? I'm USMC Ret'd and you are calling the kids "stupid"? If you are gpoing to do that, do not drag my Corps into your faceless rant. You are the one with no sense to post, as you have. Chew that hon.

Ben-sorry it is legally binding. The establishment clause. As a public school this is a no no.

Like immigration?

Separation of church and state is to prevent the government from forcing a specific religion on our nation, do we really think all these years later we are JUST realizing what they meant all those years ago when it was written? Prayer was allowed in school until fairly recently. Anyone anywhere can take a stand for thier faith. The intolerance that nonbelievers have for God is merely conviction of their sin, recognizing God would mean they would have to give up carnal pleasure. The anguish that this debate fuels is only so strong because we ALL KNOW there is a God, some just choose to apostacy, HELL is real people.

Actually, the law is that school employees cannot direct the students to display their religious beliefs, but student led displays are totally acceptable. From what I have read this is a student led team or club and the students are demonstrating their first amendment right to free speech about their faith. Just because you don't agree with what they are saying does not mean that it is illegal. In fact any student group can create a club and display their beliefs as long as it is not endorsed or encouraged by school employees. If the school posted a plaque with the words "Jesus saves," although I would agree with the sentiment it would be a violation of the separation of church and state, but a student led group who makes posters about what they believe is simply not a violation.

Uh... SORRY... there is no provision of a seperation of church and state in the US constitution.

That's never been there... show me where it is if you're so sure it's there...

Uh... SORRY... there is no provision of a seperation of church and state in the US constitution.

That's never been there... show me where it is if you're so sure it's there...

Exactly, everyone here who keeps repeating "separation of church and state" need to go back and read the constitution because it isn't there! Here is what the 1st Amendment of the constitution says "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances." It means that the government cannot establish a church like England did with the Church of England. Note the second sentence "or prohibiting the free exercise thereof"; so with a little reasoning (I know... that's a lot to ask) it is easy to surmise this: The school cannot require the students to put the bible versus on the banners, but they also cannot stop them from putting the bible versus on the banners.

The separation of church and state was mentioned by Thomas Jefferson in a personal letter to the Danbury Baptist Association.

NC unfortunately it is on public school grounds. It varies by state. However, if it is on public school property, it can be considered a school event.

Really you are going to call these kids stupid? This is what's wrong with the world.

Subsequent supreme court rulings have interpreted the 1st amendment using the phrase "separations of church and state" from the writings of Thomas Jefferson. So while you might not see it as a 1st amendment violation, that's how a higher court will view it. And if you think that's a violation of free speech, realize that children do NOT have 1st amendment rights nor any constitutional protections under the law...

Sadden American - 1st amendment. And if you think it *only* protects church from state, consider that it *has* to work both ways, because any time the state acts according to the whim of a church, it is immediately infringing on another church. How would you like it if eating beef was outlawed because Hindus believe it is sinful?

Daisy3b - No, we're not "just realising" what it means. We're reaching a point where enough people are either members of other religions, don't take a literal interpretation of the bible, or just understand that we're not all on the same page and that it's okay, to where we are trying to stop being @!$%#s (at least, on an institutional level) to everyone who doesn't think the same as the dominant block.

Unfortunatley, it means asking the dominant Protestant/Catholic block to stop rubbing it in everyone's faces. Some get it, some are so used to having a free hand that they feel they are being attacked, even when they're not.

So far as this particular case is concerned, the cheerleaders are probably in the clear, so far as the school didn't sponsor the signs, and no one from their school has objected.

How did they violate separation of church and state? Be specific.

The kids are not the school.

They are at a school function, in school uniforms, on school grounds, being paid for by tax payer dollars.

Now, if you were to take off the school uniforms, leave the property, play your game in someones backyard and pay for it with your own money; you'd be good to go.

Saddam is so caught up what is in the Constitution then here is one for you Saddam...No where in the Constitution does it say you have the right to own a gun.

Go ahead, find it, but don't mind me if I don't wait...

benramz2 This is how a minority controls a majority.. Twisting intent to suit their agenda.. The laws been twisted to say you can't discuss politics in church.. You can't discuss your faith in public places or government as well.. Surely the intent of the original law was to protect every citizens right to worship or not worship a supreme being as they see fit without being impeded or harassed by any other group.. Since the folks that do not believe are impeding the ones that do it would seem to me they are the violators and the minority..

Sorry Jon but after #1 free speech the 2nd amendment does state that the right to bear arms shall not be infringed.. So your attempt at disinformation is BS.. This was confirmed by a liberal biased gun hating Supreme Court..

...No where in the Constitution does it say you have the right to own a gun.

Go ahead, find it, but don't mind me if I don't wait...

It says that I can own and carry as many guns as I want:

Amendment II

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State,
the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

You should have waited...

Right on the money funkster01 and the supreme court agrees with you.. That's what needs to happen here, the justices need to weigh the original meaning of the statement and the limit of its intent and put this fad of attacking peaceful religious intent to the trash..

The majority needs to wake up and take back the values that we started out with before the minority take them away by twisting the laws to suit themselves.. How is that football team doing?? I would not leave a game because Obama was there and did not put his hand on his heart during the national anthem although I would boo him and point it out to all the people he is commander in chief of..

They are teaching these stupid children that it's okay to only follow the laws that you want to follow and you can just ignore the rest.

Well, Dumbya Bush, also from Texas, set the example for all of them, when it comes to ignoring the Constitution. He and Cheney wiped their butts with the US Constitution for 8 years!

For discussion sake, technically it does not say, GUNS or FIREARMS, it is interpreted as such. It refers to a well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state.

"Arms" could mean anything, stick, rocks, slings, bow and arrow, club, spear, sword, flint lock musket. Could it be assumed that someone could put a technicality on what particular arms we are allowed to "bare"?

Personally, I think there should, it is amazing the weapons I see in some peoples hands today.

WAY OFF SUBJECT.

No it is not.. We are talking freedoms described in the document that made this country a power to be reckoned with.. The Supreme Court put this to bed a few years ago so it is mute.. The contemporary description of arms in the dictionary at the time of the writing means firearms.. And if you really want to get down and dirty it excludes none but the current laws do.. So current technology would seem in bounds for the citizen not just the military..

Oh, Roadrunner, people who think as you do...that majority should get to run all over the minority and do whatever they want whether it is fair, reasonable, compassionate, or sensible. People who think that minorities can be rightfully disregarded or smashed down, treated unfairly, or attacked are the same type of people who were fine with blacks having to use a separate bathroom and being beaten.

I'm not saying everyone advocated those things, but that the idea that only one way to think is okay and that it's fine if government decides what religion or color is acceptable, who gets to speak out and who doesn't, who can marry whom, and who should be allowed to go to school or hold an equal job is not compatible with the concept of the USA. Those of you who think that just because you like your religion called out over intercoms at games or you would like your religion's rules to become law, just think how you would feel if whites (or whatever you are) were not allowed to eat at the best tables or your political party was banned because it became a minority. How would you like it if people said you were the problem and a violator just because you happened to not believe in God or love someone some religious group or political group didn't approve of.

I guess it never occurred to some of you that just because you happen to like the banners or what they stand for, you would be all fired up and horrified if Muslims hung signs or Indians were allowed to throw you out of their restaurants because your skin was too white and they only wanted to serve Indians. You might want to watch out what you ask for...one day you might be in a minority, and since you are so used to running things you might be surprised to find out that no matter what color you are, religion you belong to or if you don't believe in religion, you still are human and you still want to be treated equally and well.

Roadrunner, I would say that the ones who bully and threaten those who don't believe as they do and who dismiss their rights are impeding a lot of things, so I guess that is the point. It's a sporting event, and it wasn't a revival. It was on school grounds, a school event, and the cheerleaders were in their uniforms representing the school. Would it be possible to let people enjoy the game without turning it into lawsuits and arguing?

If you are gpoing to do that, do not drag my Corps into your faceless rant.

Your Corps? Arrogant much?

It's not your Corps and never will be. You serve the American people and it's their Corps. Never forget that.

Were people told they could not attend unless they read and believed the words on the sign?? I don't think so.. Was anyone threatened with punishment other than the teenage girls?? I would bet not.. Many people are offended by the national anthem like Mr. Obama who think it is a prayer to imperialism and want it banished as well.. I think it is a reminder about how much we owe to people who died so we can have freedom.. Because a foreigner might attend a sporting event in the US they might be offended with our anthem but I for one could care less.. Sounds like someone had a blister on their penis from rubbing it on their pagan love idol and their only way to vent their anger was to attack someone else..

This isn't about punishment. So guess you are saying US is all God and if anyone is offended he needs to go home? Umm..this isn't just your country, but I can see why you would think it was since you have an agenda there...and just because everyone doesn't think like you do doesn't mean you are right.

Sounds like someone had a blister on their penis from rubbing it on their pagan love idol

That's just so.... Christian of you.

and their only way to vent their anger was to attack someone else..

Says the person attacking other posters and Obama. Cite your source for Obama wanting to banish the National Anthem. I however, have plenty of reference material showing how Christianity plastered their Gods name on the Pledge of Allegiance, The Oath of Enlistment and our currency, to name a few.

Absolutely. Go Romney/Ryan!

How shallow. Had it not gone "your" way (and that is yet to be resolved) you would be screaching about the "activist judge".

Hypocrites for Romney/Ryan....follow your own like good little nazis...

Oh...and, by the way, "toasale"...You do realize, don't you, that Romney is Mormon and Ryan is Catholic? Both of those religions consider the "just add water and stir" evangelicals to be weak and brainwashed and their leaders to be followers of the Antichrist.

It shows your total ignorance when you support two men that think of you as nothing more than followers of the devil...but no one ever accused evangelicals of being intelligent or educated...

Quotes from Our Founding Fathers on God and America:

"The Bible is the cornerstone of liberty. A student's perusal of the sacred volume will make him a better citizen, a better father, a better husband." - Thomas Jefferson

"The Bible is the rock on which our Republic rests." - Andrew Jackson"In my view, the Christian religion is the most important and one of the first things in which all children, under a free government, ought to be instructed." - Noah Webster

"We have staked the future of American civilization upon the capacity of each and all of us to govern ourselves according to the Ten Commandments of God." - James Madison

"Can the liberties of a nation be secure when we have removed the conviction that these liberties are the gift of God?" - Thomas Jefferson

"Whereas it is the duty of all nations to acknowledge the providence of Almight God, to obey his will, to be grateful for his benefits, and humbly implore His protection and favor." - George Washington

"Our constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." - John Adams

Praise the Pow'r that hath made and preserv'd us a nation!
Then conquer we must, when our cause it is just, And this be our motto: “In God is our trust!”
And the star-spangled banner in triumph shall wave O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave!

"An Omnipotent Providence may overrule existing evils for permanent good.
He can make the wrath of man to praise Him, and the remainder of wrath he can restrain. -- Let me invoke every individual, in whatever sphere of like he may be placed, to feel a personal responsibility to God and his country for keeping this day holy, and for contributing all in his power to remove our actual and impending calamities."
James Buchanan. Washington, Dec. 14, 1860

Leave OUR Nation alone. This is HOW our Nation was founded. It has existed that way for the last 200 years, and has been supported by those who fought, and died, on foriegn soil to preserve this Nation.

Anyone having a sudden problem with this, should question why they stay here.

Perhaps the problem lies with the "hope and change" in the WH the last four years? Can we truly afford another 4 years? What else are we willing to "CHANGE"?

You need to do some serious research.

Your picking a few lines from selected speeches is not representative at all of our founding fathers.

All of their writings are available at the Library of Congress.

We know you need this research because you do not even realize Jefferson rewrote the bible making Jesus a man and nit a deity which was given to every member of congress until the turn of the century.

Are you that insecure with the lack of your religion?

no one's cramming Christian beliefs down anyones throat... are YOU paranoid or just so insecure with your un-belief ??

When one doesn't have a sky-fairy....there is no insecurity.

What is with you obsession with trying to cram non-religion down everyone's throat? Are you that insecure with your moral & ethical standings that the mere mention of Religion makes you question your life decisions?

How would feel if the banners read :

Allaahumma Innee As a Luka BI-Ismika.

“Allah, I beseech Thee in Thy name.”

or

"Ave Satani"

or

There Is No God and Jesus Was a Man.

So, they cannot say what they want to?

You do not like the US Constitution? Move to Russia or China.

culheath,

If someone wants to do what you suggest, it would seem that they can do so. Why don't YOU do it?

WOW... spoken like a true liberal!! A Christian shows his/her belief and, of course, it's because he/she is insecure.

Now... you have someone piss in a glass and dip the Crusifix in it... THAT'S art!!

culheath I would tear them down, unlike you who evidently have no testicles. But don't you dare approach these girls' banners or I'll get in your face, because you'd allow me too. No genitalia equals little faith in most anything. Smoke that sugar pie.

Wow, spoken like a true...Christian(?). You are why Separation of Church and State is there. Thank you for proving our point!

Science keeps gaining on them...and the religulous are just plain scared.

Science is not gaining on religion. Science can't create life from matter. Nor can science explain how it works.

Try again, atheists. Or agnostics, which are merely half-assed atheists.

i have to agree with falcon on what was said about tool toalsale.

NC it looks like you may need to join him in russia or china, you seem to not like free speech much either.

and for everyone saying anyone can do the same with quotes from Allah is lieing to themselves in order to make their own look/sound better.

for one it is a banner held by the cheerleaders on the field for all to see while the team runs through it and rips it up.... (im surprised the rabid so called christians are ok with that).

being from a highly religious southern football town myself i know for a fact that anyone not asociated with the school (cheerleaders/ players/ staff) would NOT be allowed on the field to hold a banner for the team to run through whether it had praise to jesus/alah/god/santa on it or the traditional drawing of the home teams mascot killing the other teams mascot.

so that clearly states to me that the school is either behind it in one shape or form, or that they are atleast complacent in the members that represent the school on game nights doing it.

Hey Homie:

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2012/10/fewer-americans-have-a-religion-fewer-protestant/

I guess Homie don't play that, to bad. LOL!

Because a lot of people believe we are living in the last days so it is becoming more urgent. I don't think displaying a sign is cramming it down your throat.

NC-492358

culheath,

If someone wants to do what you suggest, it would seem that they can do so. Why don't YOU do it?

Because I think all pubic displays of religious affiliation are unwarranted and rude.

toasale-1

culheath I would tear them down, unlike you who evidently have no testicles. But don't you dare approach these girls' banners or I'll get in your face, because you'd allow me too. No genitalia equals little faith in most anything. Smoke that sugar pie.

seriously? key board warriors...pfft.

Well said, culheath, and you made my point. Funny it wasn't okay when it was God they were praising, but put anything else up and people start threatening to tear it down..lol. I'm not surprised, and it is really sad that the nice and "Christian" love lasted a few seconds until someone wanted to put their own statement up. The judge was wrong. Point made. Nothing else need be said.

I meant to say it WAS okay when it was God they were praising.

culheath I would tear them down, unlike you who evidently have no testicles. But don't you dare approach these girls' banners or I'll get in your face, because you'd allow me too. No genitalia equals little faith in most anything. Smoke that sugar pie.

Spoken like a true religious bigot that cannot tolerate any other religion but their own. People like you are why this world is such a dangerous place.

So, they cannot say what they want to?

You do not like the US Constitution? Move to Russia or China.

I do not like what you just spewed. Should you not be allowed to do it anyway?

If someone wants to do what you suggest, Ken, it would seem that they can do so. Why don't YOU do it?

The argument cuts both ways. Doesn't the school have a right not to have messages put in its mouth because the cheerleaders are in school uniform? Or should it just take it? The constitution says that a school cannot, as an agent of the state, promote religion. Because the cheerleaders are in essence agents of the school, then they cannot give contrary messages.

NC it looks like you may need to join him in russia or china, you seem to not like free speech much either.

and for everyone saying anyone can do the same with quotes from Allah is lieing to themselves in order to make their own look/sound better.

for one it is a banner held by the cheerleaders on the field for all to see while the team runs through it and rips it up.... (im surprised the rabid so called christians are ok with that).

being from a highly religious southern football town myself i know for a fact that anyone not asociated with the school (cheerleaders/ players/ staff) would NOT be allowed on the field to hold a banner for the team to run through whether it had praise to jesus/alah/god/santa on it or the traditional drawing of the home teams mascot killing the other teams mascot.

so that clearly states to me that the school is either behind it in one shape or form, or that they are atleast complacent in the members that represent the school on game nights doing it.

Ken,

If that's what the local community wants, then so be it. This is in texas, not Wisconsin.

Try the decaf...

Cameron,

Seems that they can. Why don't YOU do it? Hmmm?

@ Cam,

The school has a high IQ so there are no lemmings to promote your topics.

I'm sorry, did you just equate christianity to IQ?! Lol. Empirically, atheists are better educated than the general population, and more intelligent.

I would just roll my eyes and move on.... not run and cry and say they are shoving it down my throat and file a lawsuit!

That means nothing; some of the most intelligent people I know have no common sense whatsoever!

tom,

Most religious believers incorporate their religion into their lives. It is their right to do that and to say so.

You want to deny them their rights of free speech and religion.

Why?

Maybe because Christians are somehow now portrayed as crazy extremists. Christians are now suppose to hide their beliefs in shame because of the non-believers. Maybe these cheerleaders are just nice young women who want to use their faith to support their team. Who is getting hurt by this? Of course this works both ways and for all religions. Too many people have too much time on their hands and do not realize that the day is coming when something like free speech is taken away from them.

So NC & Watt if there happened to be a Hindu or Muslim cheerleader you would support their right to use a verse from their religion correct? All it would take is for someone from the school to say "no" to thei request and the little house of cards will fall as the school would be hit by, and lose a huge lawsuit. That is why the separation exists and not because of some imagined persecution of Christianity.

NC,

Here is a phrase. Promote the message on your own dime. Don't use the school's resources to promote contrary messages.

If you were an employer, would you like it if one of your employees gave statements that are contrary to your interests, or do you believe that as an employee, he or she should abide by your policies?

That is the school's position, and it is correct. If the cheerleaders want to promote, they can do it out of uniform, or give the banners to their parents.

I think many people are unaware that muslims are being allowed to come into our schools to speak to the children about their beliefs, yet christians are prohibited from doing the same thing. Christianity seems to be the ONLY religion that is not tolerated in public schools.

Maybe these cheerleaders are just nice young women who want to use their faith to support their team.

Again, "watt"...I have to ask...Why are these brainwashed girls using their "god" to win a football game? How shallow is your "god"?

"Maybe these cheerleaders are just nice young women who want to use their faith to support their team."

Well perhaps things have changed but when I went to high school, the cheerleaders weren't exactly the poster children for Christian morality. It's too bad this nation spends so much time and effort putting Christianity on display and so little time actually living by Christian principles.

Mandy,

First of all Christians want to prosthelytize in schools, not just inform them about their faiths beliefs/dogmas. Give us proof as to what you claim, where are Muslims being allowed to prosthelytize in public schools? Or are you talking about a guest speaker in a world religions class? IF it happened at all, I'm sure thats it. Lying for Jesus seems to be acceptable to most Christians.

It shows how much you know about Arabs in the US. Between 65 and 75 percent of Arabs in the US are Christian, mostly Orthodox or Catholic.

However, I get what you are saying. As long as Muslims can display the Qoran, or any other religion can have banners displaying their holy scriptures I am fine with it.

My concern is not about these nice biblical excerpts, but what if some group of middle eastern students feel compelled to display banner of stuffs from the Koran, perhaps some uplifting message too, perhaps anything a bit anti-Christian someday. What do you think we should do about those? Freedom of speech too?

Yes, anything from the Koran would then be freedom of speech too. If one religious organization can advertise in public schools, they all can.

Yus/yourmothersir,

Yep. You do it. Next.