not certain about the"anymore" part, but yes very sad indeed.

I am SO tired of women being victimized by disturbed and deranged men!! And it seems to be getting worse!

Didn't some people accuse her of cheating when this story first came out? How stupid can you be?

Zardoz....I've read stories/seen the murder shows(not the fictional ones) where women do the same to men and even women to other women. As a man, it saddens me that other males do such things, but it is not necessarily confined to males. Overall, humanity is suffering on all levels.

BLS....I wouldn't call it stupidity. Some asked honest questions with the information given. Others made the typical retarded Newsvine comments and they are below stupid.

BLS-744646

Good point. NO I did not read or hear about that. But the thought with anything like that is always there. Even if true still does not give someone the right to take another's life. Life is short enough !!

Seeing the husband so devastated made me hold my wife a little closer. I could not imagine losing my wife.

well I wonder how the posters feel now who were claiming she was just out cheating on her spouse? My post got collapsed because I pointed out how callous and uncaring they were and predicted this would be the outcome. We are circling the drain a society and it has nothing to do with losing our religion. it has to do with losing out empathy for our fellow man as well as the other creatures we share this planet with, we only care about what we get for ourselves right now with no concern how it affects the world around us.

The posters claiming that she was cheating don't feel anything, deprogrammer, because they are idiot trolls. They get their jollies posting stupid sheet, since they have no life of their own, and somehow inject a cheap thrill into their otherwise sad empty lives by provoking anger from the safe anonymity of an internet chair.

Here comes one now.

@Deprogrammer: In a way BP-2252891 has a small point, however; when I read and commented on your prior posting, I found it disturbing that "so many people did not get" the sarcasm built into your statements.

It's far too common today for people to read (without comprehension), or listen without understanding. It's like they read, hear, or see; only what fits their preconceived notion, and the rest is literally just background "Noise".

Also: you are right religion has nothing to do with it. You can be anti-religion and still have great empathy and feeling for your fellow humans and animals.

To the family of this girl: May you receive the justice you seek on behalf of this woman who was taken from you. Remember however; no amount of "justice" will unfortunately bring her back!

A final note and then I'll leave the soapbox: I find it hard to believe the politicos aren't out in force, blaming the current or past administration for this crime; or saying "elect so-and-so" and this crime would not happen! Why not blame the girl's "great-great-great-great grandfather" for if truly he had not lived, she would not have been born, and this particular crime would not have taken place. It makes as much sense (and yes that was intended as sarcasm to those that need it to be pointed out). Just saying

Our society produces people like this but the root is in our nature to lust after things we can not have.. Killing and stealing have been a part of man since the dawn of our existince.. The bulk of humanity can keep this in check but every so often we have someone that can't.. So if it was the drive for sex or just greed it ended in tragidy for the young woman and the man that did this has destroyed his own life as well.. My family grieves for this loss and all the others past and future..

savy5 All I can say is wow.. With so much information being dumped on our brains daily we are overloaded with it.. It is natural at that point to start filtering it to a point that fits your mindset..

Also even the political freiks know that this kind of thing knows no bounds..

Oh gee golly garsh...because, when people cheat, the customary thing to do on the real murder shows(not the fictional ones but the 20/20 stories of real cases when the ending is the suspected perp in prison after a conviction, etc) is to kill the husband---not the wife whom you are cheating with and take his money. I'm being sarcastic and feeding a troll of course, but I actually did see a case like that recently.

The husband was a devout religious person and his wife slept around on him and everyone seemed to know it. Crazy, crazy lady. They split and the husband was miserable but they were amicable...until he told her that she was no longer going to be the beneficiary of his life insurance policy should something happen to him---that it would set aside for their kids. She hatched a plan, invited him in when he came to pick up the kids, she asked for help to fix something, he obliged only to be shot with his own shotgun which she still had(by the man she was cheating with...a member of the same church and at one time, good friends with the victim)...follow all that? The cheating guy shot the girl he was cheating with in the arm to make it look like a robbery too. Sigh.

Anyway...sad story. Glad to see caring people here commenting. As for the rest of you, I have nothing nice to say so I will just hush.

lady's remember, in a kidnapping such as this, fight to the death before you let them drag you into a car, your chances of surviving once in the car/truck etc. are very slim; since you can id them if you were left alive; these sick bastards are out there, always be on your guard.

lady's remember, in a kidnapping such as this, fight to the death before you let them drag you into a car, your chances of surviving once in the car/truck etc. are very slim; since you can id them if you were left alive; these sick bastards are out there, always be on your guard.

lady's remember, in a kidnapping such as this, fight to the death before you let them drag you into a car, your chances of surviving once in the car/truck etc. are very slim; since you can id them if you were left alive; these sick bastards are out there, always be on your guard.

You could have a police officer for every person and this stuff would still happen.. For the simple fact they are human as well and their power has been known to corrupt them.. The blamers will try to pin it on something like TV shows with sex and violence or Movies with sex and violence or lack of religion or lack of guidance or lack of parenting.. But the truth is that even in the groups that try to block out these influences this kind of thing happens.. Better to be open about these things and hope that people who are having trouble ask for guidance and derail the path to a tragedy..

You can not trust anyone.If you are a women or vunerable in any way.Buy,learn to use, and carry a hand gun.If you can not use that,buy a taser.Be sure to let them get close ,do not reveal your weapon until it is to late for them to prepare.And if your life is in danger,by all means pull the trigger.We will all thank you later,plus you and possibly many more will still be alive.

My deepest condolences to the family and friends of this lovely young lady. We all are saddened that there are people everywhere who can do such horrid things to others without the blink of an eye.
RIP Whitney.

I hope justice is served and we don't feed, house and provide entertainment for yet another scumbag for the rest of his life.

Really sad. So young - all involved. We condemn this behavior, of course, but one can turn on the TV any day and this sort of violence is played out over and over again - as entertainment. To think it has no effect on society is ludicrous.

Read...... The Gift.... and Protecting The Gift by Gavin DeBecker....FBI profiler. Never give them privacy...never let them take you to a second location. Fight right where you are.......... scream, yell FIRE!!!....people will come running.....don't be polite to people who make you uncomfortable. YELL Back OFF!! If they get you in the car....CRASH the CAR!! carry MACE. learn martial arts...... God Help us all.

Wow! What a sad ending for her and her family.I'm a christian and believe this type of situation is exactly why we need a death penalty! My prayers are with your family.I hope this guy is held to the highest degree of accountability and comes to his senses before he is removed from this earth. This guy doesn't deserve to be alive! I could only imagine the pain.

Of course it's not confined to men but most murderers are men, like it or not the statistics don't lie and no it's not because women are getting away with it, most people who murder are idiots who somehow think they can get away with it and almost never do. I agree with Cyndie too, if someone attempts to abduct you with a knife or gunpoint or whatever throw yourself to the ground make them shoot or stab you right there and make a huge scene no matter how embarrassing because if they manage to get you alone you're as good as dead anyway.

It is indeed a sick world when a person cannot even get to work (or school like in the case of the Colorado girl) without some sick person kidnapping them. It irritates me beyond words that people think that if something (or someone) is not theirs ... then they just take it anyway. Her late minutes were so horrible, I am sure. And the young husband will never recover from this. So much sadness and misery.

at what point do we say enough is enough ? it is terrible to think you cant trust your own neighbour. the courts need to make mandatory death penaltys for scum bags like the one that took this poor girl away from her loved ones. no more living in prison for 40 years, you know that mite not be what we think of as a good life but people will always adapt to their surroundings, in other words this guy will eventually get used to prison life and some even may grow to like it! i say if you are found to be 100% guilty then you get the needle! and the government needs to step up and make life here safer, we spend trillions of dollars to make it safe in other parts of the world when we should be doing everything we can to protect our own 1st. if we have to post armed guards everywhere then so be it. if we need cameras on every street corner then make it happen. and some people say thats an invasion of their privacy but if your wife or child is missing you would be very greatful to have something on film that may help save your loved ones life. i know i must sound like a crazy person to rant and rave and talk about bringing in military personell but i just cant stand to keep finding out that some innocent person was murdered and their familys will never get to see them again. i also have a young daughter that asks me when she can walk to school by herself and she probaly feels like im smothering her because i just cannot allow her to walk the 5 blocks to her school without me or her mom. i just dont know what else to say other than im very sorry for the loss of this young ladys life and for the family who will have to deal with this pain the rest of their life.

Ladies, get some mace, take your cc classes, be aware of your surroundings. Lets not let this young woman die in vain. Harms way can't always be avoided, but you can fight for your life. It's a sad world where we can't trust anyone, so fight with all you've got. RIP dear, and may comfort be with those loved ones left behind.

Very sad. Cases like this are going to happen as far as the human being exists. I think there must be programs in every school that prepares the weak to defend itself in these situations.

Only in death are you free, only in death.

I agree with the above comments of fight to your last breath. Don't let a person take you. Its better to be shot then raped and tortured then shot. A kidnapper is not going to take the kidnappee to a place where he can get caught. So your best bet is to make a sceen right away, screem, bite, kick, JAB YOUR FINGERS IN HIS EYES. seriously... the thought might be revolting to most women but that dude is going to kill you. Mutilate him.

So sad, my heart goes out to husband and rest of family. She probably somewhat trusted the person who lived in her building and let her guard down. To the idiots the accuse someone before they know of cheating is just gossip and not fair.

I was also hoping for her safe return like Im sure everyone else.

I agree with the above posters that say never get into a vehicle with an abductor. Scream yell holler do what ever is necessary to draw attention to yourself. At the very least some one will call the police and give them a description of what is happening. Learn self defense and carry pepper spray. Fight as dirty as possible. A knee to a mans crotch is agonizing to say the least. Drive those long nails into his eyes and claw the jerks eyes. When your life is on the line there are no dirty tricks in a fight. Your chances of surviving a gun shot or a knife stab are much greater than going with him. After you are alone with him you are dead meat.

Put a bullet in this lowlife.No trial nothing.No last meal nothing.Then cremate him and throw is ashes out with the trash.And be done with him.Also no more life in prison.Instead of life in prison just kill them.And save the tax payer the money it cost to house them.It cost 50,000 a year to house to prisoner in the state of calif.They get three meals a day.Free medical Cable tv.Free education.Mean while the law abiding citizen has to pay their own way.And pay for the dirt bags in prison.

I know the majority of murderers are men...but as a man who would never do such a thing, it bothers me to not say, "women do it too". I've seen similar comments about children and grown men concerning Sandusky like women are saints around children when the stories and facts are there to prove otherwise. Again, I'd do nothing to harm a child...if I saw one being harmed, the offender better hope they can run damn fast or they are as good as dead. I don't care if I have to sit in a concrete cell for the rest of my life. The way our society works with such criminals is bull. If you commit a violent crime in which someone is killed or seriously injured, you should be put to death. While an eye for an eye seems "barbaric", if you take a life, why should you get to keep your own?

Samantha - ""It irritates me beyond words"" you said it ! ! ! ... and it seems like an understatement, but this has Always been the Lowest Nature of Man. and as a man, i find that is a difficult thing to imagine, but History Proves it to be true...

i Believe that anyone, male or female should learn some basic Safety and Defense. for personal safety and to keep some psychopath from snatching a kid from you. my mom keeps a Stun Gun in the Drivers Door of her Honda, and Keeps Pepper Spray in a little holster. you should be Properly Trained to use these items, and Learn basic awareness skills... They can Save your Life !

My Heartfelt Condolences go out to Whitney's Husband, Family, Friends and Co-workers who Mourn this beautiful young woman... i cannot really even imagine how i would stay sane, if this were my wife or Daughter... i would need a few minutes Alone with her Kidnapper/Murderer... of THAT there IS NO DOUBT. i could give a S*** Less about the Rules of our so called "Civilized" Society's Discomfort at the Notion that The Family should not Have "First Crack" at PUNISHING a perpetrator, after a Guilty Verdict is rendered.

For Some folks (myself, for instance) it would be the only way to Feel a Sense of Peace and JUSTICE...

i tend to think the criminals of our Generation might think a little Harder knowing that a "Death Penalty" could possibly be the outcome of such a punishment Before they take a nice long bus ride to a state prison.... i hope the Guilty one Feels the Requisite Shame, and Experiences the FEAR, he caused that young woman to Suffer.

well,.. There's My Two Cents Worth.

Have a Better Day Folks.

J--U--S--T T--E--A--R--S--!!! :( Reading with a broken heart for the family. Speechless.

I was holding out hope that she would be returned safe and sound.My deepest sympathy's to her husband,mother and all of the family.She was a beautiful young woman.We need stiffer penalties and quicker executions for murderers as this seems to be becoming a not so unusual crime.I am heartsick.

this story went right along with the little girl who was found chopped up...this country is going straight to hell or it has already become hell.....

When my daughter turned 16, I bought her a pistol and taught her how to use it. Yeah, some bad things could have happened but at least she has a chance. She is thirty now.

It is very sad for this lady and her family. She was very pretty but pretty or plain the results could be the same.

Wow, there are some real dumb ass comments on here. Even if she did cheat on her husband she didn't deserve to die. I don't know why that is even a factor here. Also, to the person that said they are tired of men victomizing women, your dumb ass needs to think about what you say. You know what I'm tired of? People like you. It really doesn't matter who is victomizing who, it's all wrong and terrible. My heart goes out to the husband. I recently just lost my wife of 18 yrs. and it's the hardest thing I have ever had to go through. People keep telling me it will get better, but it don't. This poor guy just lost his world and I hope he finds the streangth to help him get through this.

I was sooo hoping that she would be found alive and well... In my gut I knew that she was with someone she knew.. was hoping it was a boyfriend. So so sad. I am crying for her young lost life .. so senseless.. and for her young husband and family left behind to grieve.

It is with great sadness I say condolences to her family and friends. Another tragic and unnecessary death.

To the Gresham Police depart I say, Well done! In less than a week they found her, investigated, and arrested the responsible party. As horrible and sad as it is, many families will never know what happened to their loved ones, or who was responsible. There will never be any burial for them, or any closure for their families. They will spend the rest of their lives wondering where they are, and what happened.

TIPS ON HOW WOMEN CAN PROTECT THEMSELVES

This is an e-mail that was sent to me a few months ago, since it still applies, and is important for all women to know, I decided to post it on this site.

Because of recent abductions, in daylight hours,refresh yourself of these things to do in an emergency situation…

This is for you, and for you to share with your wife, your children, everyone you know. After reading these 9 crucial tips , forward them to someone you care about. It never hurts to be careful in this crazy world we live in.

1. Tip from Tae K won Do:
The elbow is the strongest point on your body. If you are close enough to use it, do!

2. Learned this from a tourist guide in New Orleans:

If a robber asks for your wallet and/or purse, DO NOT HAND IT TO HIM. Toss it away from you….chances are that he is more interested in your wallet and/or purse than you, and he will go for the wallet/purse. THEN RUN LIKE MAD IN THE OTHER DIRECTION!

3. If you are ever thrown into the trunk of a car, kick out the back tail lights and stick your arm out the hole and start waving like crazy. The driver won't see you, but everybody else will. This has saved lives.

4.Women have a tendency to get into their cars after shopping, eating, working, etc., and just sit (doing their checkbook, or making a list, etc. DON'T DO THIS!) The predator will be watching you, and this is the perfect opportunity for him to get in on the passenger side, put a gun to your head, and tell you whe re to go. AS SOON AS YOU GET INTO YOUR CAR, LOCK THE DOORS AND LEAVE.

And, if someone is in the car with a gun to your head DO NOT DRIVE OFF, repeat:
DO NOT DRIVE OFF! Instead gun the engine and speed into anything, wrecking the car. Your Air B ag will save you. If the person is in the back seat they will get the worst of it!

As soon as the car crashes bail out and run. It is better than having them find your body in a remote location.

5 A few notes about getting into your car in a parking lot, or parking garage:

A.) Be aware: look around you, look into your car, at the passenger side floor, and in the back seat

B .) If you are parked next to a big van, enter your car from the passenger door . Most serial killers attack their victims by pulling them into their vans while the women are attempting to get into their cars.

C.) Look at the car parked on the driver's side of your vehicle, and the passenger side. If a male is sitting alone in the seat nearest your car, you may want to walk back into the mall, or work, and get a guard/policeman to walk you back out. IT IS ALWAYS BETTER TO BE SAFE THAN SORRY. (And better paranoid than dead.)

6. ALWAYS take the elevator instead of the stairs. (Stairwells are horrible places to be alone and the perfect crime spot. This is especially true at NIGHT!)

7.If the predator has a gun and you are not under his control, ALWAYS RUN! The predator will only hit you (a running target) 4 in 100 times; And even then, it most likely WILL NOT be a vital organ. RUN, Preferably….in a zig-zag pattern!

8. As women, we are always trying to be sympathetic: STOP! It may get you raped, or killed. Ted Bundy, the serial killer, was a good-looking, well educated man, who ALWAYS played,on the sympathies of unsuspecting women. He walked with a cane, or a limp, and often asked "for help" into his vehicle or with his vehicle, which is when he abducted his next victim.

9. Another Safety Point: Someone just told me that her friend heard a crying baby on her porch the night before last, and she called the police because it was late and she thought it was weird. The police told her "Whatever you do, DO NOT open the door." The lady then said that it sounded like the baby had crawled near a window, and she was worried that it would crawl to the street and get run over. The policeman said, "We already have a unit on the way, whatever you do, DO NOT open the door." He told her that they think a serial killer has a baby's cry recorded and uses it to coax women out of their homes thinking that someone dropped off a baby. He said they have not verified it, but have had several calls by women saying that they hear baby's cries outside their doors when they're home alone at night.

Please pass this on and DO NOT open the door for a crying baby —-This e-mail should probably be taken seriously because the Crying baby theory was mentioned on America 's Most Wanted this past Saturday when they profiled the serial killer in Louisiana .

I'd like you to forward this to all the women you know. It may save a life. A candle is not dimmed by lighting another candle. I was going to send this to the ladies only, but guys, if you love your mothers, wives, sisters, daughters, etc., you may want to
pass it onto them, as well.

Send this to any woman you know that may need to be reminded that the world we live in has a lot of crazies in it and it's better to be safe than sorry.

Everyone should take 5 minute to read this. It may save your life or love one's life.

Sandy Byrnes
Resident Manager
Greenview Commons
Greenview Court
Greenview West Sayville

Sorry for the long post - I thought it important. One thing not mention here - Have your keys out and ready so that you are not at your car and digging in your purse for them!

@ IWonder, amen bro. you did the right thing. There would be a lot less stories like this if more women had a way to protect themselves. Even if it is just mace or a tazer, anything to help them get away from an attacker.

Good post renee. I told my daughter that if she had to pull her pistol, to keep pulling the trigger until it stopped shooting, then throw it at him.

I liked your advice about running zig zag, it reminded me of my old great uncle, he called it "running fence row". I think he was referring to wooden fences.

How tragic. How could anyone see the picture of the husband breaking down being comforted by the mother of Whitney and not get emotional. This story was bad news from the beginning with her SUV being found abandoned with a smashed window to her cell phone being found somewhere else. And it should not come as a surprise that the murderer knew the victim...that's the majority of the murders out there. You never really know what's going on in the mind of someone you think you know, be the person as distant as an acquaintance or as close as a spouse.

What is so tragic here is that this was a young couple just getting their start in life as married adults. They never got a chance to have children, watch them grow up, become empty nesters, and then grow old together. Whitney was robbed of her life, and the husband will be years recovering from this. He'll never find another Whitney with her being "the one" for him. I cannot imagine that kind of pain.

In any event, ladies out there, you need to take some self defense courses. If you don't want to own a gun and get a carry permit, at least learn how to use simple things at your disposal like car keys as a weapon. There are classes in every city and town around the nation that teach self defense for women. And folks, because this murder happened does not mean the country is going to hell. Murderers and women killers have been among society around the globe since the Stone Age. The difference these days is that the internet allows us to read stories from around the nation; stories that we likely would not have known about from our local newspaper or nightly TV news broadcast like we used for news prior to the web.

To IWonder Good choice whatever it takes to keep your kids honest and alive. My girls was taught to shoot also then went through Army MP training but I still worry.

Oops the title is The Gift of Fear by Gavin DeBecker.

In what part of the story some of you read that she was cheating on her husband? And what freaking difference would that make in your lives if she was? A 21 year old girl is murdered and some of you religious or moral zealots are worried about her personal life. We're not in the Middle East, this is the U.S.

As you can read in the story, her husband is not the one arrested! Sick and twisted minds abound in our community, including Newsvine.

I hope they got the right guy and he gets the death penalty.

This is an awful ending again. More and more young women are being murdered---1 to 2 per week, or every other week?

The Internet is part of the problem. Whether she was having an affair on the side, doesn't matter now. Were there secret e-mail/text exchanges between both of them--just speculation. My heart felt condolences to her loving husband, her Mom, and other family members. No one wants to experience this kind of horror.

The internet/Text Messaging opens the door to easy communication with nut cases; fulfilling sick fantasy thoughts, and copy cat crimes. We'll have to wait and see what the evidence is, and why he killed her.

What's the matter with the Loons in this Country?"--this type of vicious crime must have sky rocketed in the past 10 years. Unheard of. It can't be the Economy.

Too many mentally ill people walking the streets of America. "Don't trust anyone, but yourself".

Ugh...such a horrible outcome. I was hoping from the original first article she was just unhappy and was running away with someone. When the second article came out later in the day and more information became available, that they found blood, etc...it didn't look good.

Hopefully they get justice for her and her husband and this guy gets the death penalty.

Why don't men just leave women and children alone so that they can simply live out their lives.

Positive Me...A fair many of us do so you should try wording your thoughts differently as not to make all men sound like the scum of the Earth.

As mentioned above, learn how to use a gun if you want to own a gun. And if you pull a gun on somebody, shoot until you have unloaded on them if you don't want it taken away and used on you. DO NOT pull a gun on somebody if you don't intend to shoot them!

To iwonder, good for you! All father's should care this much about the safety of their children. We have an arsenal in my home because I live with a hunter (rolling my eyes) and a gun collector. I am sure our daughters will be taught how to use a gun properly as soon as they're old enough.

Also I was taught in self defense a long time ago, that if possible, to hit an attacker as hard as you can in the Adam's Apple. It's easy to crush and it you hit someone there, they're probably not going to be able to breathe for a few moments. Time enough to run! And always scream "FIRE!" Never let anyone take you to another location, even if they have a gun to your head. Always fight back!

My heart breaks for this family, especially the mother and husband. I hope they are able to find peace and the strength they need to go on with their lives. She was a beautiful girl taken way too soon.

God bless this family,
My wife keeps a 9, and any messing with my child can meet my 45.
That said I hope this guy frys
Keep safe , be aware of your surroundings ..

Thank you, IWonder, but I can not take credit for the email itself - was just sharing.

The email belongs to the name at the end of the article. Sandy Byrnes, Resident Manager. Greenview Commons, Greenview Court, Greenview West Sayville

My whole family grew up learning to handle weapons, and the safety of it all. While people who support gun control laws call us paranoid, I say to them, No paranoia here - we have our guns. :)

Wow, teary eyed just seeing the photo of him breaking down! She is now at peace. I pray that he and her mother both find peace soon as well. I pray that justice is served swiftly!

My husband is teaching our teenage daughter how to shoot a gun. She will also be attending a gun safety course in order for her to get a concealed gun license.

In her vehicle she has maze spray located near her steering wheel. She has another maze spray hidden in the backseat so in case someone happens to throw her in the backseat she can get the hidden maze.

If she is put in the trunk we have directed her to the location of a pull latch that will open the trunk. We have a flashlight in the trunk at all times. My husband is also thinking of hiding a gun in the trunk.

Well once again we have a situation where someone who the victim knew did this, not the stranger but a neighbor. This is why everybody should be looked at.

I think people were saying she was cheating because it was reported that she was seen in her car with a man on videotape from the gas station.

The posters claiming that she was cheating don't feel anything, deprogrammer, because they are idiot trolls. They get their jollies posting stupid sheet, since they have no life of their own, and somehow inject a cheap thrill into their otherwise sad empty lives by provoking anger from the safe anonymity of an internet chair.

But aren't you doing exactly what you're up in arms about? Isn't insulting others, no matter the reason, still being petty and childish. Circular logic will only get you back to where you were in the first place.

Put the perp on a pile of wood, tie his genitals to a post by a piece of wire, light the wood on fire and throw him a knife! Better yet, let me have him for 5 minutes. His mother wouldn't know him when I am done.

I am so sick and tired of women getting treated horribly and victimized as well. Women deserve much more because they give birth to children. You can thank these religions of the world for all this womanizing crap. Did you all know centuries ago before religion pagan's worshiped women and their nurturing abilities. Religion was created to control women and give men power through means of a false god!

If this creep Holt did it..I like to see the police... just give 5 minutes with this creep and her husband in a room alone!!! Whatever happens in room was an accident then.

The serial killer, Ted Bundy, who was executed for his many crimes against women, said in an interview shortly before his execution that pornography led to his obsession.

First of all, my condolences and heartfelt prayers to the husband. I am long-since divorced, but if something like this were to happen to my ex-wife, I would still angry, hurt and likely not able to function because of the emotional strain.

However... I'm wondering if this Holt is white. I'm wondering that because when the victim and murderer are both black, someone usually shows up to claim that "blacks always kills blacks, nothing new, nothing to be excited about", or some other such garbage...

So, where are all the comments from those morons, claiming that whites always kill whites and it's nothing new and nothing to be excited about?

BLS-744646 - Statically speaking it was a lot more likely that she was cheating with a neighbor than killed by one. Anyone leaning that way was simply playing the odds. That being said, Marsellus Wallace said it best, time to "go to work on the homes here with a pair of pliers and a blow torch."

Agnon Mema- Why on earth did you feel the need to bring race into this? A young woman has been killed and 2/3 of your post are dedicated to racial comments. It's unfounded and doesn't have a place here. And why are people speculating that she was cheating? I've been following this story for the last few days and nowhere in the articles did it say she was having an affair. STOP IT!!!! This young woman lost her life and her family is grieving and we are turning it into a stupid soap opera.

Saxon; could not agree with you more!! (post 1.14) I tell my daughter that all the time never get taken to a second location. The chances of being killed increase significantly.

So, sorry for the family and friends for their loss. Prayers out to them all!

@John Z Prosise.....Sounds like an Oregonian took and raped you!!! With any luck you learned to STAY OUT OF OREGON!!!.

the guy that did this should be beaten to death...and i volunteer to bruise my knuckles doing it

Cyndie (#1.22 & #1.47): The Gift of Fear is a book I recommend to absolutely everyone. I know it might sound a bit cheesy, but that book SAVED MY LIFE.

My condolences to the family.

To you folks posting the "do this and that" posts. Every situation is different. If you have not trained almost all of your life or at least practice regularly, the odds are your suggestions will just piss off a perpetrator because they were not executed correctly.

As for the "blame". You can blame yourselves. WE are society, WE let it get this BAD. It is OUR fault. Until we stand up and accept responsibility for OUR creation we will wallow in garbage.

Zardoz #1.2-"I am SO tired of women being victimized by disturbed and deranged men!! And it seems to be getting worse!" Perhaps you would feel better if they were victimized by disturbed and deranged WOMEN, you self-righteous, self-empowered, egotistical (insert noun here). Do you march up and down the street chanting "I am woman, hear me roar!"? Trying to demonize men is not the way you should be going about advocating women's rights and "woman power"; it has a reverse effect on the cause you are shoving down America's throat; there is a more elegant way of going about such things. I live over a thousand miles away from where this tragedy took place, I know nothing of this family, and the incident has no bearing on my life what-so-ever but in reading this article I could literally feel my "heart hit the bottom of my stomach" as a single tear rolled down my cheek and yet you have somehow managed to lump me into the same classification as the perpetrator of this tragic crime just because I am a man.

deprogrammer

"We are circling the drain a society and it has nothing to do with losing our religion. it has to do with losing out empathy for our fellow man as well as the other creatures we share this planet with, we only care about what we get for ourselves right now with no concern how it affects the world around us."

I would argue it has everything to do with losing our "religion," more specifically our Christian values. Here is why. Science and human nature would justify your last sentence, and without the morals and virtues that have to be taught/learned (they are not inborn or natural to us) through Christianity, there really is no point. Truth is relative otherwise, and what is right for one may not be right for the other, but survival of the fittest and natural selection rules all. If we truly are just animals who merely return to the earth, than what does it matter what we do here, or how we treat others. The lessons learned from Christianity say that what we do is important, and that there is a sanctity to life. Before anyone else goes all "the Bible teaches oppression of women and hatred towards them" do yourself a favour and read more than just the verses that would appear as though it does, because you'll save yourself from looking foolesh and you may be enlightened.

This whole story is extremely sad. I say this as someone who made some callously sarcastic remarks earlier about this story. I guess I was hoping that the outcome was going to be better. It truly is a horrific thing. About as horrific as a few of these poster's fantasies of what they would do to the killer.

sorry, that would be *foolish, I tried to edit but my computer is too slow. Deprogrammer, do you also defrag?

Apache, I know it bothers you, but you need to look at the numbers: 99% of rapes committed by men; 98% murders committed by men.

Women and men, however, are neck and neck when it comes to abusing (non-sexual - men still reign supreme when it comes to sexual assaults) children.

In British English (the folks who were speaking it long before America existed), "went missing" is absolutely correct.

Atticusrules seems to be a grammar legend, in his own mind...lmao!

I guess so AtticusRules, whatever you think.

My daughter is a barista at Starbucks and lies about 10 minutes away. I worry, because they have to be there so early in the morning. Of course, it has nothing to do with Starbucks, it has to do with women having to deal with violence and the fear of violence everyday. I am sick of all the violence against women and children. Those caught for such atrocities seldom spend much time in jail.

You are so correct. They should be skinned alive, pour acid on them slowly until they are liquid wash them down the drain. Problem solved ,no jail time.

I read so many replies last night where some "Sherlock Holmes" wannabes laid out details as to how and why the husband was the killer. And, I mean many posts. I wonder if they will post any "I was wrong statements" today. Probably not since I believe they were all trolls.

I am so sorry for the family and this young lady. I was so h3ll bent it was the husband. I apologize for everything in the previous two posts. I wasn't mean to anyone, just thought all the evidence pointed out the husband. Thank you to the police in that area for quick work. All my prayers to her family.

StepasideSue,I have no children and can't imagine the worries every parent goes through.This young lady's murderer was her neighbor.All you can do is teach your children to be aware of their surroundings and don't trust strangers and those who you are not very acquainted with.I would not wish this on anybody.

The accusers of her husband won't offer anything on this I'm sure. They think they're ALWAYS RIGHT. My deepest sympathies to her family. They're lucky, My nephew was murdered for just the cost of the pizza he was delivering and they have never found the killer.

Kill him. Kill him, Kill Him.

AtticusRules

People don't "go missing". They disappear or vanish. You are mimicking undereducated NBC News reporters who don't know proper English grammar and can't write a correct statement if their lives depended on it.

Well, since you brought it up, here's a lesson on Proper English Grammar...

"Don't" is not proper English; "Do not" is proper English. "Can't" is not proper English; "Cannot", or "Can not" is proper English.

It is so very interesting that someone who is complaining about a lack of Proper English Grammar should exhibit such an atrocious lack of Proper English Grammar.....

The reason so many people point to the husband first, is that it often -- far more often than even the TV shows have it -- IS the husband (or wife, when it's the husband who is killed). Heartless and cruel? perhaps, but the husband (or wife) is almost always on the top of the list of suspects.

Stephen. How horrible. I worry about my son driving 1 mile to go to his subway job. He is 19. It always seems that the good hearted people are always the victim in cases like these and with your nephew. I live in a middle sized city. I guess maybe 2 to 3 people are robbed at gun point on the streets walking from night classes at a large college campus. Mostly the housing and dorm areas. Young people trying to do something with their lives and they get hit in the head with a gun for just 20 dollars.

stepasidesue:

it has to do with women having to deal with violence and the fear of violence everyday. I am sick of all the violence against women and children. Those caught for such atrocities seldom spend much time in jail.

You are SO right, and that is so infuriating. I makes me so mad to see these rapists and such get, say, 3-10 years and someone who has 1/2 oz of pot get 25 years!

If, and when (I hope), this guy is convicted, they'd better give him life! I'm actually very much against the Death Penalty, but in this case... Does Oregon have it?

Dip his penis in acid.

Positive...I just read that you said God was great later in the thread. Then you say that?

Not that I disagree about the acid...but the two views differ greatly and you can't chalk up such a thought to being a sinner.

Amen...and quickly. Like within 6 mos. Cases like this should go to the top of the stack for our court system. Swift action and death penalty FOR SURE. No need for ppl like this to sit in prison for many years.

unfortunately, the death penalty is not a deterrent. statistically, the US states with the death penalty have the highest rates of murder. plus, the death penalty triggers automatic appeals, and ends up costing the taxpayers much more than keeping a man in prison for the rest of his life. better to convict him and make sure he never, ever gets out.

The death penalty is not a deterrent for the very reasons you pointed out. If my appeal can go on for years and I actually can find loopholes to somehow throw out a case, it is not at all a "bite" out of crime. It is a free-ride where I am getting three meals a day, shelter, and sometimes many other amenities you would not find in a crappy hotel. In other words, it sounds like a vacation---not real life. There is no deterrent there and never will be, especially when the same states likely have the highest rates of crime overall. Meaning it is a systemic issue in society...single parent homes, poverty, abuse, etc...while there are exceptions and criminals can come from anywhere, there are experiences that a great number of them have in common.

To those arguing that the death penalty is not a deterrent, it would prevent whoever did this from doing it again. That is good enough for me.

Yes, the death penalty would keep the guy who did this from doing it again once he is caught and in prison -- but it will never stop other from doing the same thing.

Your emotion is understandable. Your reasoning is flawed.

Look at countries where capital punishment is not only allowed but encouraged when people commit heinous acts. Do you see citizens in those places repeating such offenses at the rates they happen here? No. There is a reason for that but there are many reasons too complex to discuss.

I'm not saying I want every criminal to suffer death because I do not want that. But your reasoning---no offense---is just as flawed. I don't care if it stops other people---those who kill others without due cause deserve the same punishment they gave to their victims. Period. Otherwise, we're living in a world where it pays to be a criminal. Not a law abiding citizen.

all to true jeff.all you can do is stay alert.you can like people and care about people, but always keep in mind that people can short curcuit.and if it comes to survival dont be afraid to make them bleed. do what you can to protect yourself.bring out the beast in yourself.get vicious.because the alternitive is forever.

With a greater the population even if the percentage of disturbed people stays the same, it in effect it gives us many more sickos. On top of that our instant news puts it out there much faster than the so called good ole days.

Notfiveo, not only does our instant news put these things out there faster, but with the internet, we hear of many things that might have only been on local news in the past.

My deepest condolences to this young woman's family.

My sympathies to the family.

John, your stupidity is showing. Go away!

Agreed kim. He looks like a rag-head anyway. His real name is probably muhim karim abbdullah kimish. Not John, whats your last name? Smith?

Seewhat I mean is no better than John.

Don't feed the trolls, people.

You are one sick and demented individual!

@Zardoz8238

You say the same stupid crap every time a tragedy occurs and someone mentions "God" or "prayers", tell me, do you get off by insinuating that you know better? Or is it just being mean spirited that makes you feel powerful. Being impotent and wrathful really doesn't make you seem like anything other than an ass that gets off trying to belittle peoples beliefs, which is not really any different than being a "bigot". Personally I believe there is a "God", and I realize that there is evil in this world as well, which sometimes manifests itself as "stupidity" in the impotent fools who can only criticize the beliefs of others in a repetitious cacophony of that stupidity as they haven't the ability to add anything other than misery in life. It must really suck to be such a small man, and to be so empty that you feel a need to diminish other peoples faith. Find a Plastic Surgeon and have an "Enlargement" if you're that miserable about what God gave you....which would explain your apparent disdain for the concept of God. You're stuck with what you got and you are angry, well get over it.

Well said Daniel....I find such comments from that person intolerable and so unneccesary.But bullying exist in all forms.

I didn't get that Zardoz was angry from his or her comments at all. As someone who was raised Catholic against my will, he/she voiced thoughts that have wondered through my mind. Just like you Daniel, Zardoz has the right to believe however. If desired, he/she can share those opinions. That was all that happened...and you call him/her a bully? From your post, I could easily say the same about you. Just saying.

Daniel, implying that someone is not well-endowed because you don't like their comment is immature. Maybe Zardoz has a reason for the comment. I actually knew someone whose young daughter was killed in a car accident, and she did not appreciate the amount of "God bless you" comments she got. Instead, it made her feel angry, as if "God" was "blessing" her by taking away her child in a painful way, and also why "God" did not feel she was good enough to keep her daughter. Yes, maybe Zardoz was inconsiderate in voicing that view in this forum, but you employed bullying and diversion tactics to voice yours.

And what is wrong with just expressing condolences and sorrow in this matter, and matters like these? Why bring "God" or any higher being into this, especially when times like these are often challenging anyone's belief in any "God"? This event is in no way a blessing to the ones who loved this woman, or any other family who have dealt with this, and saying "May God bless you and your family," feels as if it's too little, too late.

Every time one rude person shows up here they are followed by a few more like clockwork.

Goosie Girl any person who has lost a loved one has dealt with comments that are well intended which come out at the wrong time, place, or just the wrong words altogether. They were still said with care and much consideration, and should be accepted with the kindness in which they were intended.

If the woman you mentioned was angry about "God Bless You" I can guarantee she was misplacing her well founded anger. If she wanted to be angry with God I think that would make far more sense. Expressing anger at the person offering a simple wish for God's blessing might be misplaced by her, but your personal justification is plain silly.

What is the point of good intentions if the actions associated do not match those intentions? Also, how can one have a comment that is said with much consideration that are the wrong words? All that needs to be said to one who is grieving are words of condolence, and no more. Anything else is conveying one's own agenda, which is inconsiderate and selfish.

Also, your implications of rudeness are ridiculous, especially when the rudest comment here was by the person who decided to associate anger with the size of someone's genitalia.

I skip over the genitalia comments, consider the simple minded person who said it. I think you are much smarter than that, and we can banter all day about "wrong words", or we can be gracious when people are kind and doing their best. If that's not your style then so be it.

I only wish that people who think they are doing their best would think about their actions and strive to do better. Maybe I'm giving people more credit than they deserve by thinking that they will one day think about how their words can affect others, regardless of social norm. We never know what our best can be, and just settling to what may be the norm is never the best.

Indeed, GoosieGirl, maybe one day you will think about how your words can affect others as well.

People say all that god bless stuff to make them selves feel better - 99.9% of the time the person they are pretending to bless is never going to read such comments on a forum thread.

If you don't like being put in your place then don't post self rightous stuff.

Many people also don't like being congratulated for stuff that they see as doing what is expected of them...drama has become acceptable in our society. Defend what you want - but expect opposing opinions.

When people can't see my disabilities, I lift up my shirt and show them all of my scars - many say crap like, God was with you...bull @!$%# - the credit goes to the doctors who saved me.

I know how my words are going to affect others. I knew that by asking why people have to say "God bless you", that many people were going to be angry, because I was questioning what they believe is a social norm, and a good intention. I had the hope that many people would ask themselves why they would say this, besides the fact that it is a social norm. Are they saying it because they believe it is a comfort to those grieving, or a comfort to themselves, that by saying this, they are doing the right thing? Unfortunately, many people don't go that far, and just linger on the anger that anyone would question something that has gone on for far too long.

Since it was sort of a debate...I never say God anything. It is not to say I do not believe in God. I'm lost and not sure what to believe but the one thing I did gain in my adventures over religion and being forced into it? That not all people believe and to say God anything to them seems rather thoughtless. God bless you becomes bless you. Instead of you are in my prayers, you are in my thoughts. To me, it is the same because I still may pray and talk with God...but this way, I stay neutral and can still offer my support to those who need it without bringing up their feelings on religion, no matter what side they are on because I have no idea where I am.

Example. I once met a woman many years my elder whom I liked very much. We were work pals, me a student at college and her a wisecracking highly devout Christian. She even tried asking another student out for me, unbeknownst to me. One day I mentioned a professor I liked---he lived in my town so I knew him outside of the college and told her about him---alien tv show, guitar playing, dreadlocks, tattoo for a wedding band, and all. She did not like him. One day I said something to her about his class that involved evolution. She stopped dead, grabbed me, and asked if I believed that fish somehow turned into frogs then jumped out of the water. Needless to say, I tried getting away as quick as I could and I never brought up touchy subjects again.

Just don't be rude, or condescending, let people enjoy their beliefs in peace without ridicule. I might tell someone you are wrong or even that's not true (when what do I know) but don't do things like telling a man his tally whacker is little, you're messing with the whole manhood thing. Goosie and Apache sometimes it is best to stop worrying and wishing what OTHER people do and just worry about how you behave. I respect how you both feel and like you my heart is sad for this family.

So what you're saying then, Goosie and Patches, is that only the negative minded people have a right to comment according to their beliefs but the positive minded people (who actually feel God WILL bless the family for their faith) don't. How humble.

No, Jystme, I'm asking you to ask yourself why you must say "God bless you" to a family that is going through such a difficult time and may be wondering about their faith in that god. Saying that may cause more feelings of anger and confusion to this family that is already going through a full range of emotions, and definitely do not need at this moment. Why can't just expressing your condolences and sorrow be enough? And do you really think that this family may start to feel blessed anytime soon? Or want to feel blessed after losing their loved one in this matter? They may want to feel that eventually, but any positive feelings so close to this horrific event would just seem confusing.

Bullet...nowhere in this thread did I worry. Especially concerning another's acts or thoughts. As we near the election, the one thing I am realizing more and more is all the crazy division within us is what is/has been/and always will be what destroys this country. I have no desire to be that way and hope there are lots of others like me...who, regardless of party ties, want this country to improve through working together. It really is the only way. On that note, I just tried to add to the discussion. Sorry if it was not seen that way.

And no Jystme...Apache is far different than Patches by the way. At first, I didn't think you meant me. I don't think anyone is being negative. However you want to say it is however you will say it. I won't mind but then ask me that after a loved one dies. I might be mad/hurt and thinking as I have before, wondering if there is a God, why? I may not want to hear it...if that was the case, I would probably say something about it, as nicely as possible to those saying something. But again, I don't think people who believe are being negative. Nor do I think people who do not believe are being negative. We are all entitled to our own beliefs. All I said was for me I realized growing up the way I did that people are different so I found a neutral way to be. It makes me happy because I can talk to strangers without offending anyone, no matter what they believe.

It's the same crap on every single story's message boards! Either political BS or religious BS. The old saying used to be that there are two topics that are taboo to talk about....One, was religion, and the other (imagine this), politics. The world would be a better place if people would just keep those two subjects to themselves.

Maybe Daniel didn't have any more right to go off on Zardoz, as Zardoz did going off on Blacksheep, but ZARDOZ's initial comment WAS meanspirited, bullying and VERY unneccessary!

If you're Catholic, good for you. If you're Muslim, good for you. If you're an athiest, that's your choice...
But the fact STILL remains, as it did hundreds and hundreds of years ago, that CHRISTIANS are STILL crucified for believing in God and Jesus. It's ok to spout discrimination when someone says something against ANY OTHER RELIGION....EXCEPT Christianity! Why is that?

Why do you scream about Muslims and others being allowed to live in peace, but not Christians? Are those of you Catholic believers so right and everybody else wrong? What about Mormons and Jahova Witnesses and 7th Day Advents and Prodestants and Methodists and Quaker, Amish, Mennonite, Pentecostal, Mormons, Orthodox?

Why is it ok for all of those religions to exist and speak, but not Christians?
Why is it Christians continually get bashed on these stupid message boards? Do you people SEE all the religions that exist across the states? You let them all live in peace with their beliefs, then let CHRISTIANS live in peace. If you don't want to believe, don't believe! Nobody is twisting your neck, so stop attacking those that DO believe!
Once again, that same freedom of speech that you think YOU deserve, is the same freedom of speech that the others deserve, whether or not you like it.
You have a choice to just keep scrolling...you don't HAVE to read the stories, you don't have to read the message boards, and you don't have to post.

But if you DID read the story above, you should have read that this young lady, Whitney, was also a SPIRITIAL WORSHIPPER, so for whatever religion her worshipped spirit was from, she believed in a higher being.
So with that said, GOD BLESS HER SOUL!!!

It said in the article about the family being religious. And people of religion often seek comfort in thier God when a tragedy occurs, not everyone BLAMES God or calls him a mythical creature when bad things happen. So saying God bless you to someone who has expressed they are religious is absolutely correct.

Saying God doesnt exist or love you because he let these things happen is just as foolish as saying her parents didnt love her and they dont exist. Your parents created you... they are supposed to protect you... they love you.. and out of LOVE, when you turn a certain age, you get to live your life, free will. I suppose you all would love to live in a world without free will... then you will be happy.. because you HAVE to be.

Honorable...I respect that you have beliefs that may differ from mine and I am not going to argue...but you just did exactly what someone in my shoes would react to if I lost a loved one. Because you believe, you compared actual living breathing parents to God...something none of us can prove. The two are very different, yet you equated them the same. You also are assuming that everyone else should believe because you do...if I feel God does not exist after a tragic time, who are you to tell me otherwise? It would no different than me laughing at you saying God does not exist...which I would never do. You can do as you wish, but don't be surprised when someone reacts negatively to that.

And Conway...being raised Christian, I have never seen the kinds of hate you talk about toward Christians except Catholics...a fair amount of that rightly so. I agree everyone should be able to speak freely, just never noticed what you say is so apparent. Sorry.

GoosieGirl, I deal with many people in mourning as I bring condolence meals to these families. People react differently to things said to them. Some people find comfort, even if they are not religious, if someone says "G-d bless". Others, such as your friend who suffered a family tragedy, might not. Some people don't know what to say to people grieving, so they don't say anything at all. We don't know how someone will react and sometimes words fail us, so we say the only thing we think will help. Personally, I find giving some people a hug brings them a little comfort, but again, not all people will react the same way.

GoosieGirl...this family (and I know this for a fact) has great faith in God and, yes, they will feel blessed by God and are blessed because they hold onto the promise made by God of a resurrection that will reunite them with Whitney once more. They don't blame God for her death nor feel that he 'took her because he needed her to be with him' as some believe. It was a senseless act by an irreverant and arrogant fool of which there are way too many (both acts and fools). This family and many others do truly appreciate the 'God bless you' statements...so let it go. Saying 'God bless you' isn't an invitation to you or anyone else to critique.

Gotta say...I didn't get that GoosieGirl was critiquing anything. She only pointed out what is obvious to those of us who may not believe...and no less, within the context of this little thread. I've seen people waiver in their faith after a serious accident and you never know how people will react. I don't think she was questioning this family's beliefs or yours or anything. She merely said that everyone reacts differently to grief and she was part of the discussion. Regardless of what you believe, is respect and communication not key to us all co-existing? I'd say absolutely. That was all that happened there and you are making it way more than it is---she is trying to respect the thoughts of others while you look like someone pushing a religious agenda because you care so much about her looking to respect others.

I'm not arguing you about it---I grew up in devout Catholic family and believe it partially responsible for some values that were instilled throughout my family---something I love. In other words, I do appreciate views different than my own but only if those same people can appreciate different views all the same. If you cannot, you're not representing yourself well in the eyes of God by putting down others down. That is precisely what this discussion started over. People having differing views, unable to voice their thoughts without disrespecting each other.

Wow, I didn't mean to cause such a ruckus. I'm appreciative of those that understand my post's point and my right to state it.

I just find the need for people to "bless" others for their misfortune as being at least disingenuous and at best patronizing, insulting and self-serving.

Being a Humanist I acknowledge the need for some people to have emotional/spiritual crutches to get them through the day and through life. What I resent is that these same people feel justified in making their claims of a deity more essential and more primary over the senses of those of us that don't. Despite knowing that in doing so they're in fact being offensive to those of us that aren't religious.

I already accept a level of accommodation in having "god" mentioned on my currency and in a new version of the pledge commonly recited. In having the xtian bible used in Official activities and seeing the multitude of non-tax paying churches and the like. Plus the fact that my taxes go to many religious oriented gov't programs and activities, like allowing religious groups to use public schools on Sundays to practice their religious activities.

What I don't need or appreciate is to have it essentially thrown in my face repeatedly, especially in seeing/hearing "blessings" offered for virtually everything from the death of a child to the winning of a football game.

Why is it I, and those like me, should be the one to be sensitive to others religious beliefs and they not to my non-religious beliefs.

Don't get me wrong. As a father of a teen daughter I'm devastated on behalf of this family's terrible tragedy. I can only imagine the incredible pain in being in their place.

But blessing them, especially AFTER their daughter/wife is found murdered, is not a blessing at all. Any "blessing" would have been for this young woman to have been found and returned to her family safe and alive or to not have had these things happen at all.

THAT would be worthy of a god.

I couldn't have said that any better, Zardoz. Thank you for that.

You're quite welcome Ms ApacheRose. :)

Hey now! It is part of a song title...and I'm definitely not any form of a woman. This would be a first...

OH!!! My mistake!!! Usernames can be quite deceiving when assigning gender in a thread response.

It is not about you all and your beliefs. It is about a terrible tragedy. People wish to reach out and say how sorry they are for their loss. People do that from whatever foundation they stand on. Quit turning everything into I am right and you are wrong.

May this family find peace in whatever will give them comfort.

Burning Brightly - I fully understand and accept that this is a tragedy to this family. And i grieve for them in the most profound way.

But 'it is not about xtians and their beliefs' either. What if these people aren't religious, or not xtian. Why do xtians have in inject THEIR beliefs in these situations instead of just saying what should be said as people and fellow humans, not as xtians.

Quit turning everything into xtians are right and others are misguided, wrong or should willingly accept the religious (their proclamations & blessings) when the opposite is far from true.

Well next time I sneeze and someone says "God Bless You" I'll give them a real piece of my mind.....ugh. yes, it's become that silly.

Those of you that thought the God Bless part was the poster saying this tragedy was done in the name of god and or religion, get over yourselves. People say god bless to THE PEOPLE that may need god's help to cope, not because they think god caused this. If you are an adult, act like one and quite being childish.

The misdirected anger comes when people hear that God has taken their loved ones. People are told that God needed them more than the family, or that he had another purpose for them, etc.. And people wonder why people turn away from God? Who would love a God that was so selfish that he would take their loved one(s)?

People mean well, and have their hearts in the right place, just wrong information. Unless there is hope to offer, perhaps some things need to be left unsaid.

There is hope - but it will only come from true / accurate knowledge and understanding of the Holy Scriptures.

May this family find the peace needed to carry on.

The poor 10 year old girl that was dismembered in CO by some sicko brought out some of the most controvertial comments. God needed another angel in heaven.

Zardoz: Hate to inform you but this vine is not about you.

Renee...I'm all for you believing whatever you like and if you can share it with me respecting that my views may differ, there likely would not be any misunderstandings. So few people seem like that though, no matter what side of the fence they fall on. I just find it sad when people want to offer their thoughts to victims but if they do it differently than the next guy, they get flamed. We're allowed to disagree and all but this is not about us and being petty. That seems to be missed a lot.

Positive...Zardoz never said this was about him/her. Others made it that way but it doesn't matter.

Zardoz...no offense taken. It is a song title. If you know it, you listen to awesome tunes.

Kim M...People have a right to express their differing views. It is funny that people see that but then still blame the guy that thinks differently than them. Why? Can we all just offer our thoughts in our own way and let it be? Because if you can't do that, no matter what you believe, yes---you need to get over yourself. Not saying you literally...I was agreeing with your original comment, only sending it all to everyone.

Srich - Well next time I sneeze and someone says "God Bless You" I'll give them a real piece of my mind.....ugh. yes, it's become that silly.

Just say "I appreciate the sentiment, but I'm not religious." Or, if you're walking the line and want to be polite, "I appreciate the sentiment."

When another sneezes in my presence, if I say anything, it's Gesundheit (pronounced ga-zoon-tite) which is the German word for health. Germans typically say it when someone sneezes to wish them good health.

Besides I would say that living in the 21st century it's superstitious and archaic to even bother "blessing" someone for sneezing (not to mention doing so during a tragedy like the one this woman & family has had befall them).

I know the sneezing thing is petty to bother with a response , but great movements start with the loosening of a single pebble.

Origins and legends of blessing one for a sneeze

Several possible origins are commonly given. The practice of blessing someone who sneezes, dating as far back as at least AD 77, however, is far older than most specific explanations can account for.^[1]

One explanation holds that the custom originally began as an actual blessing. Gregory I became Pope in AD 590 as an outbreak of the bubonic plague was reaching Rome. In hopes of fighting off the disease, he ordered unending prayer and parades of chanters through the streets. At the time, sneezing was thought to be an early symptom of the plague. The blessing ("God bless you!") became a common effort to halt the disease.^[2]

Another explanation suggests that people used to believe that a person's soul could be thrown from their body when they sneezed,^[1] that sneezing otherwise opened the body to invasion by the Devil^[2] or evil spirits,^[3] or that sneezing was the body's effort to force out an invading evil presence.^[1] In these cases, "bless you" or "God bless you" is used as a sort of shield against evil. The Irish Folk story "Master and Man" by Thomas Crofton Croker, collected by William Butler Yeats, describes this variation.^[4]

Another legend holds that the heart stops beating during a sneeze, and that the phrase "bless you" encourages the heart to continue beating.^[1][2][3]

In some cultures, sneezing is seen as a sign of good fortune^[1] or God's beneficence.^[5] In such cases, "bless you" may be spoken as a recognition of that luck.^[1]

Alternatively, it may be possible that the phrase began simply as a response for an event that was not well understood at the time.^[1]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bless_you

I pray that God will bring them comfort in this difficult time.

Interaffairs - Or at the very least, some form of blessing.

Zardoc - what is your aversion to typing the name Christ? Are you that... ...wait for it... ...anti-Christ? oooh.

Seriously though dude, it was meant as a form of comfort, I see no self-serving purpose for saying God bless you to someone and struggle to see any disingenuousness (sic). Ask yourself why you take so much offense to the mention of God, in any context. And then do some serious introspection.

.....wondering now, if "she" left the clues. The gas attendant noticed her in the passenger seat, before we knew her fate. Was "she" willing to go with him (neighbor) ? Also if you click up top (KGW-TV in Portland reported), you can see a pic of the neighbor. He doesn't look like a psycho, weirdo, sicko, etc.......how strange !!!

They never do! Take a look at Ted Bundy.

Yami...I hope that last statement you made was sort of tongue in cheek. If not, please think about what you said and what I am about to say.

I have never seen a psycho, weirdo, or sicko look like one...or else, everyone would know to avoid them or put them in a place where they can get help before they hurt someone. Take me for example. My beard is going wild, I have tattoos, and my clothes at the moment are disheveled...it is near laundry day. Am I a weirdo? If you think you can answer that at all, even if you could see me, please learn that you can never judge a book by the cover...because I'd be the person to kill the guy in this story if I saw her being taken against her will, even if it meant certain death for me too. Good day.

Unfortunately, people judge others by whether or not they fit a stereotype, ie he doesn't look like a weirdo, so he can't be one, and vice-versa. I have known more people who are selfish, inconsiderate and lack empathy who, to the general public, are labeled as "normal," as if there was any such thing. If a person doesn't fit into a predetermined box, they are labeled as "freaks" and ""weirdos" and treated as if they don't belong in this world. What people don't realize is that a lot of these so-called "freaks" and "weirdos" are the ones making the changes in this world that make our lives better and more comfortable, allowing many "normal" people to live their lives in relative ease.

The overall point was...to try to fit someone into a stereotype, no matter what that might be, is always a bad idea. People you should trust...cops, firefighters, bank tellers, teachers, preachers, etc...can be bad people too. Where as the garbage man, the homeless dude, the guy washing your window, etc...might be the coolest person on the planet. Stereotypes do nothing but breed stupidity and hate...often toward the wrong person---because if it was the right person, we'd live in a world without weirdos and people who do bad things.

Yes, this is off topic, but I do want to comment.
Good point, Goosiegirl and ApacheRose. You should never judge period, but certainly don't stereotype because of someone's clothes or looks.

When I was young, I had a high paying job. Not a CEO or anything THAT high-paying, but enough to pay the bills without worrying and the ability to buy myself something nice once in a while.

One day, I went into a jewelry store. I had decided that my birthday present to myself, would be a nice gold watch. Not wild or bold, but a nice dainty one that I could wear when dressing up.
I was wearing my blue jeans, shirt and tennis shoes (my favorite dress code when I didn't have to be in a dress and high heels or dress like someone I wasn't, for my job! lol).
Two older ladies were working the counter that day. One came to me and when I asked to look at the gold watches, she took me to the counter, looked at me with a look as if to say I couldn't afford any of those, then took me to the counter with the "lesser value" watches. While I looked she walked away, she said in a snobbish tone to let her know if she could help me. She walked over to where the other lady was, and both stared at me as if I was going to break the counter and steal something.

Then, a young girl came out from the back and the two ladies pointed for her to "help" me. My first question to her was "do you get commission?" She said yes. I paid cash for a $600 gold watch that day, and walked out with a feeling of triumph that a pleasant, non-judging young lady, got the commission instead of the snobs who looked down on me.

One more example of why "what you see" isn't always what you get.

Sorry for it being off-topic but I think it is on...seeing as on some level, people who are abducted like Whitney often trust people they should not. And again, the stereotypes go both ways. I read a story a while back about a group of homeless men---I think they were on a bus---and a guy started bothering a girl or woman. They put an end to it really quick.

Another one? I was deceived by your name and assumed you were likely a man only to learn you're either a man who buys dainty watches and dresses with heels or you're a woman. Shame on me...anyway, it would have been nice to see those ladies react. I have seen similar situations many times and agree about how you felt...it is odd how something like that can bring such joy.

LOL ApacheRosePea00! I am a lady. ;) And you're right, you can't even count the times I've been considered a man, a "twit", a "redneck", a "backwoods hick", etc...simply because of my screen name.

It's actually just a play on words....Conway Twitter was once a superstar country music singer, as far back as when I was just beginning...and then I took the big social media "Twitter" and combined the two. I've been severely browbeaten because of my sense of humor! LOL

Me too, of sorts. My name is a song titled minus part and apparently the word "rose" brings thoughts of a woman behind my moniker. No skin off my back but it is rather ironic I guess. The song lyrics definitely add to the humor.

Good learning and if I see you here, now I'll know. Good day.

It's good advice but the monster was her "neighbor". A loaded .38 in Mrs. Heichel's hands would have worked wonders.

My condolences to her family and friends.

Could start by HANGING these SOB's in public square and making everyone attend. Would make for a cool field trip,futhermore might stop some of this crap at a young age.

starting, as barbaric as it sounds, that is a good idea.watching someone die gives perspective.hanging is good but beheading is much more memorible.sad but true.we glorify crime but hide the punishment.

Nobody can be protected 27/7 but when given the opportunity, I walk my wife out to her car and stay until drives away. She leaves at 5:45 AM so I worry all the time. I used to be a trusting person until I was jumped in broad day light in my own garage by a gang in an unprovoked attack. Sadly, it turned deadly but I'm still alive to tell about it. Luckily I kept a knife in my garage to strip stereo wires or I wouldn't be here. All too often people take safety for granted and this is the outcome. My condolences to the family also. I too have lost a daughter (health related) and feel the pain. Stay vigilant, trust very little and, protect each other.

good for you Crazson, awareness and self-defense is the best we could do. I didn't believe in guns until I met my husband, he taught me how to use one and what to do if even attacked. It's well kept in a hidden spot and if for any reason someone enter my home while alone, I know what to do to protect myself and my daughter.

I feel so much sympathy for her husband and family. I am glad you posted this testimony about her. It's wonderful that she touched other peoples lives with her good character and beautiful smile. On the first thread about her disappearance, I read hateful comments from people assuming she had left by choice or was involved in something sinister. To all those people so quick to pass judgement on this young woman, I hope you feel the shame that you should be experiencing and hopefully you will not have to endure something horrible like this in your own family. God bless her family.

@Socialists and Communists at work again !

An ASS at work again!

You are an ass.

I guess now only her murderer knows why she didn't run. Could it be because she was threatened, or the man threatened her family if she did? She also may have not run because she still had hope he would let her live. Wondering about the actions or non-actions of the victim is incredibly inconsiderate, considering the situation she was in was most likely very stressful for her, and she may not have been able to think clearly.

Did it occur to you she may have been tied up or secured in the vehicle and could not get away? For all we know, she could have already been dead...but you proved why speculating anything is a bad idea.

Daniel was right when he picked out that little name for you.

And you know what "assume" does, right? It makes an "ass" out of you and me...how can you speculate that she did or didn't do something? Were you a mouse on the floor? Did you see or hear something that would make you comment in such a way? That is the problem with "guessing"...and sometimes, I guess, with even something so simple as "thinking." We have NO way of knowing what the circumstances in the car were, so we have absolutely NO business assuming that she could have just jumped out of the car...how mediocre!

You are such an ass. You do not know the story. This evil person could have been in the vehicle already, or surprised her, killed her immediatly. We do not know if he had a gun. For God Sake!, she was 21 a very loving person. As mentioned by many others, she may have already been dead when this person was driving around.

Have you ever had a gun or knife stuck in your side by anyone you know or don't know. Today's society people don't even know their own neighbors. People don't look at each other let alone say hello or good morning.

@Socialists and Communists at work again:

The girl is dead. STFU. What a jerk.....

If you are ever attacked, man or woman, and said attacker threatens you so you stay quiet/still, that is your chance to get away so do all you can to draw attention to yourself. I know it sounds ignorant to say because it may bring you harm but it is the truth. The last thing someone looking to commit a crime wants is a victim who fights back. And again, it may be your only opportunity to fight. Take it.

If I am really giving advice, I'd also recommend some self defense training. It will go a long way if it is a good class as the other thing a criminal will avoid is someone who seems aware. If you have to fumble for your keys or you are talking on the phone, your concentration is not on your surroundings. That is what a criminal wants. Just saying.

Ps...me = no criminal. The worst thing I have ever done? I once stole some Bubbleyum. I was so young I don't even know if I knew what stealing was...but my parents made me take it back and apologize. And I did bawling cause I felt so bad.

was she possibly tied up, drugged so she couldn't communicate or attempt to escape??

Not sure how well she knew this neighbor, she could have had some level of trust, who knows what he was telling her, she was very young woman. If she would have know his plan, sure she would have kicked/flailed or whatever to draw attention and get away. The POS that murdered her needs to die, now!! No excuses given!

So sorry for this outcome. My sympathy to her family.

This is a classic kidnap robbery rape,this sicko planned this,she was not running off with the guy,that's the work of stupid trolls, implying she was having a affair because they were neighbor's It happens all the time,if you get in that car,your chances slip to nothing.Fight,ladies,get a key chain device,gun,mace etc when walking alone in unfamiliar area's,have your hand in your pocket book.Take some MMA classes,you get in shape and you can protect yourself.My heart goes out to the family.

Why didn't William Petit's wife shout for help when she took her eventual murderer to the bank? You're an idiot to suggest she was complacent in her own death. There is really nothing worse than a fool who can write.

I think it is safe to say almost no one is complacent in their own death, F Walsh. There may be some odd exception somewhere, hence my wording. Sad to see that people, even when they can read a story over and over, never fully understand what went on. Fools no doubt.

Freedom4,

Handguns were mentioned at no time in this article nor any other on this incident. A pair of scissors would have done him just as well for all we know, but a firearm, mace, wasp spray in her possession would have at least given her a chance, and a very good one at that. Nice try, though. Try dealing with reality instead of the world as you wish it could be. It saves a lot of disappointment.

My condolences to her family, friends and co-workers for your unbearable loss.

To be honest, your name is rather ironic given your comments about guns. The freedom of religion is a great example...it is a freedom for everyone no matter how much we all disagree on our beliefs. Guns, even if you despise them, are a freedom for everyone. Even so-called nutjobs---we all know we can tell the nutjobs from the non-nutjobs just by looking at them(sarcasm). Even more hilarious is the way those against guns seem to think anyone who carries a gun is the most likely to commit a crime---as you imply. With or without a gun, I'd be the guy trying to help whoever was being harmed. Rightly so, not beyond my control like Zimmerman.

The toothbrush Kevin McCallister buys in Home Alone could be carried by nutjobs and used to kill too...as it could have been used by the victim all the same. As well as the snow shovel the neighbor used to whack Marv and Harry with, the paint cans, the Micro Machines, etc. On a side note, if you use an electric toothbrush, research the brand. There are two---Spinbrush is one---that always break and harm users.

My point? Guns were no part of this as far as we know and given that, anything can be a weapon used by a nutjob(or even by a victim). For argument's sake let me pretend a gun was involved..,taking guns out of law abiding citizens possession will only give the criminals more of an upper hand. Not save citizens like you seem to imply...and yes, I'm a liberal saying that so don't give me any political crap. Politics have nothing to do with common sense...if you take the guns out of the hands of the good people, what do you think the bad people are going to do? Call a truce and stick to hand to hand combat or wait for the police to settle things fair and square?

To be fair, maybe you never intended your comment to read as it has...

But if you did mean it as it sounds, you should know a few things. In states where citizens are allowed to carry, crime rates are down. A common misconception along those lines? States that allow guns have more gun violence. Look at New York vs. Alaska in gun deaths taking into account population. New York has strict gun laws. Alaskans often carry guns everywhere they go---and hunt more than most Americans(in many areas, the only food you eat is what you kill/catch yourself---aka no supermarkets). My point? Hunting accidents should be way up in Alaska vs. New York. Not to mention the way Alaskans police themselves is unique. They have a police force but the majority of villages are watched by a civilian given the responsibility(they carry no weapons and only call in real cops when problems arise)---it could be days before they arrive. In other words, they are surrounded by people who own guns and could be killed in a heartbeat...but they are not. If that doesn't prove that gun deaths come down to responsible ownership, I don't know what does...

Sorry for the rant. Also sorry---if anyone is adverse to guns, that is your choice. I was raised to respect weapons and I will continue to live the way I choose. The most important think here was the victim, her husband, family and friends. It reminds me of the Holly Bobo case...and like that case, I certainly will not forget this case either. Yet another reason why any man who touches a woman in a harmful way(or vice versa) should be removed from society to all live inside a bubble where they can only harm one another.

@ ARP: Alaska, as a whole....has fewer gun related deaths than in any of the lower 48 " outside" states. One other item; I'm not 100% proof positive on the stats but if memory serves correctly the weapons that people carry are oft times used against them in crimes of violence. I seriousy doubt by her carrying a handgun it would have slowed or stopped this guy from doing what he did.

I know Blue...cementing my point that responsible gun ownership is what matters. Not the number of guns, or even the number of so-called nutjobs. I have heard that the weapons people carry are often used against them too but have not seen the statement backed up with credible facts. I'm too tired to look now but maybe later. And if I find stats that back up that claim, I would surmise a few are that way because they were not trained. When a person has a weapon, they feel invisible. That is not how it works. Training and practice can be a huge wake up call as to how quickly someone can turn into your enemy.

Still, It would not stop me from carrying. As many abductions as there are---I'm not high on the list to be attacked---but if I am carrying, I may have an option if I can get to it. That alone is worth it to me.

I don't think I did it but I didn't mean to imply "if this poor girl had a gun, then she would have been safe". That would be a dumb statement to make because I have no idea how anything happened. To speculate now? I'll pass. I just wanted to share some thoughts with Freedom about guns since he/she sounded against them.

I may not be "correct" in this wish but I personally hope this psycho who did this lives a VERY short life in prison after convicted. Be it by legal death penalty or inmate execution.

prison my ass. if he did do this hang the son of a bitch and stop taking care of people like this. he will have more rights in @!$%#ing prison than we do outside

I just saw on the internet a mace sprayer that is pink and shaped like a gun. I'm getting me one.

I'm with you Shephen, however wrong it may be. As with you The Past is Gone

Positive Me...great idea. I'd suggest self defense classes if you are up for it.

when a bullet hits their arm, leg or crotch...

If anyone attacks my wife, that will be their last mistake. They will die where they are.

We're all very impressed with your manliness, and the fact that you know in advance what the outcome will be.

What if the bad guy has a gun? And is more experienced with it? And more willing to use it?

I do not know if a concealed weapon would have kept this young lady from being killed, but I guess it could not have hurt. At least she would have had a 50/50 chance of survival. My thought is that as he lived in the same apartment where she lived, that perhaps he asked her for a ride stating that his car was not working or something to that tune and being the trusting sort who was probably always willing to help another person she might have agreed to take him to a service station or store for instance, but once she let her guard down and let him into her vehicle everything escalated and she lost control of that situation. There are probably hundreds of scenarios that you could come up with as to why she found herself in her vehicle with him going from the ATM to the Gas station and being seen by one of the attendants at a store who stated that she was the passenger and he was the driver. I can only assume that he had a gun and that is why she was not able to run away..Fear is very controlling when it takes hold of a persons mind and some people become frozen unable to think about what to do. Others might be able to think that they would rather die trying to escape rather than sit and do nothing. I guess we will never know for sure what happened. But one thing we do know for sure is that there are People hurting this morning due to the death of this very lovely young woman who was taken MUCH TOO SOON>

I would surely prefer a gun versus gun battle than a gun versus nothing battle and choosing to carry has no effect on one's manliness but thanks for showing how immature you can be.

Not saying at all that a gun would have saved this girl...but criminals always have weapons and they are not afraid to exert force on those that they want to harm. Those two things are always a given so why would you want to leave the house unprepared or not ready to fight back---even if it is just preparing yourself by having trusted people help you learn how you would react to being attacked. Too often police arrive well after the fact so you cannot rely on them to protect you. Also, an inexperienced gun user will be no help to themselves in an attack so if a person out there carries without training---how to handle the gun, shoot properly, react quickly, etc...as well as proper self-defense techniques, how to be aware of your surroundings at all times, and so on. Often, the last example is more than enough to deter a criminal from coming for you. They do not want a victim that fights back.

If a frog had wings he wouldn't bump his butt when he hops. This what ifs about guns is stupid. What if she had a canon and he had a howitzer, what if she had mace and he had pepper spray, what if she had a kitchen knife and he had a bowie knife,.........starting to get the point?????

Sorry but "concealed carry" is not the answer. Some crimes would be stopped/avoided but many innocent people would be shot/killed by mistake. And if you deny this then there is no discussion because you are delusional. People as a whole are kind of dumb...myself included. So if everyone carried a "sharp stick" there would be LOTS of people walking around with just one eye.

I'm too tired to get the frog reference...so if you want to help me out? The what ifs about guns? I was merely being part of the discussion board again and adding my two cents on where I would want to be in relation to the questions god posed...nothing more, nothing less. Because honestly again, my beliefs are mine. Yours are yours. I'm good with that.

And concealed carry is not the answer...but what else you got? In other words, the criminals are going to have the weapons no matter what. So I should just take my chances? Sorry but chances are not good enough so I'll stick to carrying. As far as innocent people being shot? Again, if a person trains with a weapon and understands the responsibility behind pulling the trigger, only the bad guys will go down. Case in point. I carry. If I am in a situation where I cannot insure people around me will be safe from my bullets, I am not pulling my gun let alone firing. Thus, I am not shot by another carrier or him me. That is part of experience, training and everything I have talked about in terms of carrying. In that regard, people should be required to complete such training in order to carry. We do it drive, hunt, etc...it should be no different. Our troops/police force/federal agents are not handed weapons without training first. If they were, wow.

@-god,

Then at least she would have had a fighting chance.

Increase the punishment for this kind of crime.

Get rid of layers and give these evil people what they deserve. execute them the same way they executed the person they murdered.

It is about time society says enough is enough. I am tired of hearing how people can murders someone and then they go to prison, where society takes care of them, gives them 3 meals a day, free medical, a warm place to sleep, free TV and cable and you get free security and protection. Is there a problem with this?

It is no wonder why more and more people are resorting to crime.

You are wise to acknowledge that we need to do something! Evil flourishes when GOOD men and women do nothing! It seems the laws keep the good people in and lets all the evil people out to do whatever they want and whenever they want. . . I know we can not resort to vigilanty type justice because that would make us the EVIL ones, especially if we picked up the first person who even LOOKED guilty and hung them there on the Spot..We do need to get out and vote for a SWIFT justice system that is systematic and fair in dealling with people who we know are GUILTY without a shadow of doubt..I see they are still letting that so called Psych Doctor who killed those men at a military base sit in jail while awaiting his so called trial that will probably be delayed long enough for him to get out on an insanity plea..That is a case that should not have been delayed..He should have gotten QUICK Justice by a firing squad as he was in the Military when he did his act of violence. When you see this young ladies picture you almost feel like you know her and or that it could have been one of your children. I feel the only way to help people get on with their lives is to be sure that there is QUICK SWIFT JUSTICE for this person who killed her. I would hate to be the parent of the person who is guilty of her murder. But I would know if I was I would want Justice to be QUICK if my kid was found to be GUILTY without any shadow of doubt. Because I would need to get on with my life and learn to accept the things I could not control and or change.

Ban handguns.

Let me use the handgun you want to ban @ takenaka, and use it to protect my family. Banning Guns only leaves Guns in the hands of criminals and those in power, oh wait, some in power are criminals also.

Enough of that. This thread is about a young lady losing her life and someone charged with the crime. My thoughts are with the families, congratulations on quick police work to the department. Here is hoping for swift justice, and not the kind that means that Tax paying folks have to pay for the criminal for years. "Aggravated murder is the only crime subject to the penalty of death under Oregon law."

Why do these idiots always go after the guns. But not the evil game that teach them this is ok or why do they not take the time anymore to spend with there kids teaching them right from wrong. Why do they no longer want to discipline there kids. All they want to do is bitch and not do a single thing in there homes.Less then 1% of law abiding gun owners have done anything wrong. More are killed by cars and the stupidity of so that are behind the wheel that should never drive but that is ok no one goes after the auto industry.The guns have just become easy targets so no one has to do anything, if the homes were good and parents were in there kids life we would not have the gangs. Why don't you all put the blame where it needs to be , this generation has been bombarded with look at me , I need to look and act like this to fit in, me me me me

What a beautiful young lady it brakes my heart may God be with her and her family.Such and sad day for this country........

My sincere condolences to the family for being victims of such a horrific crime. I hope she is in Heaven and that he is in Hell soon.

Wishing someone was in hell suggests you do not fully understand the true horror of such a condemnation. And before anyone spouts off about justice, public hangings, etc., let's remember that however unlikely it may seem, the accused might be innocent. I'll leave that to the police, jury to decide of course, what do I know. Even if hanging is the just punishment, Hell is another story. If all the murderer took away was this young woman's earthly body (assumed since you hoped she was in heaven) why would you hope for the destruction of his immortal soul?

End of philosophy discussion.

Interesting first statement Jim...but maybe that is the problem with our human world. We give ourselves the chance to make such mistakes then, if we have immortal souls, we can make changes? The world we know we have is the human one...any other is up for debate and in my eyes, not worthy of people who do such evil things in their mortal lives. Just saying.

This another tragic story of a sick demented SOB kidnapping and murdering a young women. WTF is wrong with some people? This is the type of person who needs a bullet right to back of his brain! I am sorry this never brings back such a young full of life women who obviously has a very loving husband grief stricken but this dirt bag deserves every bad thing that can happen to him! This sick bastard destroyed a family and as he rots in prison I hope inmates make him pay and make an example out of him! Too bad there isn't a death penalty but what is worst, the rest of your days in the joint or on death row for 10yrs then the needle?

mr. harley, I had no intention to jump into this discussion, and didn't want to make it about faith or God and get an earful from everyone for doing so, but your post struck a chord with me. I do believe there is a loving God, and also that there is an evil force loose in the world (call it Satan or whatever). As you essentially stated, a belief in God comes from faith. People have a hard time with faith since it points to things we can't see or prove. Like you, I have questions about God, but I have always felt that even if the whole Bible-God-Satan-heaven-hell etc. concept was completely bogus, and we just died when we died and there was no afterlife, the Bible is still an excellent guidebook to living your life in peace with yourself and others. I also agree with you that with society walking away from Biblical concepts and guidelines, we have descended to the level of lower animals that just do what they want to do. I lost my first wife when she was only 29, and without faith and the hope that comes from it, I wouldn't have survived it. I pray that this young husband can find comfort and peace, and get through this.

How is that even important? A wonderful personality was stolen from her husband, family, and community and you focus on a word? Wow...what compassion!

Where I am from, that is what they call women who serve people in coffeehouses...not really sure about men or it applies to similar service jobs. Never asked and I only ever drank the stuff when I was working a third shift job. I could go for some now though, but my thoughts would be going faster than my fingers could type...coherently.

There's no "fascination" with anything. Some professions just go through name changes; stewardess/flight attendant, waitress/server, computer repairman/ IT specialist, party organizer/event planner- Gotta keep up with the times there, Grampa...

bbls: It just seems to me that it's kind of hard to care about someone if you don't know them.That isn't heartless or cruel, it's just a fact of life. Huh? It's called compassion and valuing life. I don't need to know someone to be able to value their life. I know that it is not okay to take someone's life. This is a basic concept. Or you may say that it is a well-known concept per the Ten Commandments. You don't have to be religious to understand that the Ten Commandments are pretty good rules of life to follow. Kind of like "treat others how you would like to be treated."

AND the religious talk here when another young lady has been killed is ridiculous...there is no god people..it is a fairytale. You live life and sometimes you have bad luck...you cross the path of an animal killer...Men can be very sick and violent...many are. Be aware, be safe and be strong.

I'm sitting on your side of the fence but there was no religious talk in this thread. McLisamc pointed out the 10 Commandmets can be used as a rules. That was solid

Maybe you should help promote the death sentence in these situations. Would increasing the punishment in these situations deter such a crime?

There's nothing wrong for people to use the word God. I can think of much worse things they could be saying. In fact, I read the other option more often in these posts and it just illustrates the bad blood in our society.

If you have to apply to own a gun, you live in the wrong part of the country!

Mark...get some training with that gun. Not just shooting it but everything else there is. Self-defense, body/joint manipulation, handling a gun in close quarters(shooting in a range will be nothing like getting attacked), etc.

Cunical...where you live, you can buy a gun the same day? I admit I am outdated on the laws but I thought a waiting period was pretty much universal?

I personally am sick of these young beautiful girls being victimized by these sick individuals who only want sex from them then kill and dispose of them like a piece of used trash, my heart goes out to her family, friends, and husband. The sick bastards who keep killing these young women for a couple seconds of pleasure need to be killed without trial, they have his DNA and fingerprints so just make him dead.

where you live, you can buy a gun the same day? I admit I am outdated on the laws but I thought a waiting period was pretty much universal?

In Ohio you get a quick back round check and leave with your new gun in under half an hour.

Agreed. DAILY there are stories of women being preyed upon and killed by men...it is at epidemic porportions, yet I see a certain complacency about it...it has become the norm, so what can we do? I really have no answer...Women and girls, be smart and wise and safe and defensive. IT should be a LAW to have girls take self-defense classes in school...it has gotten that bad...TOO many men are doing this and have these feelings to kill and rape...I do not know what the answer is there...I really think men are not evolved, that is a fact but I have no answers....sad...I thankfully fought off an attack once...I am grateful I was strong, because it could have turned out much much differently. BE SAFE LADIES, PLEASE!

Thanks for the info, Jim.

H3321278...I hate to do this but I'm a dude and no desire to rape or kill anything. The idea that you could imply that sickens me. And I am quite evolved thanks. Sorry but the man bashing gets old. Stay strong and safe.

We need to get tougher on crime. That's one thing I think Republicans do get right (except when a person is proven innocent and they still want to execute them because politicians or prosecutors don't want to admit they're wrong). It's not just beautiful women/girls being killed. NOBODY should have to be killed just because of some sick excuse for a human being like this. We should absolutely make sure that someone is guilty before executing them, but if they are guilty they should forfit the right to live. Society can't afford to keep these scumbags alive. There are way too many of them and the world is getting worse because of it. It's not just the innocent victims who are get killed who are victims of these killers, it's their spouses, family & friends who have to suffer the rest of their life because of people who do things like this. There is no reason someone like Charles Manson should still be alive. This scumbag needs to go.

They should execute killers on live tv so people understand there are consequence's for sick people who do these things.

How sad,there no punishment or torture enough for acts like this unhuman animal committed.But the rest of his life with unsupervised sex starved prisoners would be a good for this animal!!

While I would want to be sure the conviction was 100% correct, I have to agree with what ron17571 said. Would it be possible to enact a system as such and always be right? I doubt it...hence why I would think twice before agreeing to such a state.

Nice post as well, Joe.