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Subscribe to RSSAn 18-year-old Florida youth with a history of mental health issues shot his mother and her boyfriend to death in their bed and then called 911 to surrender, sheriff’s officials said Sunday.
Benjamin K. Bishop is charged with two counts of first-degree murder in the shotgun slayings of his mother, Imari Shibata, and her boyfriend, Kelley Allen, both 49, at the mother's home in Oldsmar.
Pinellas County Sheriff Bob Gualtieri said Bishop shot the pair multiple times early Sunday morning following a series of arguments with his mother.
According to a sheriff’s press release:
Bishop advised detectives that on Saturday, October 27th, his mother told him to get a job, take his medicine for his mental health issues, and to start paying rent. Bishop said he also had a discussion with Allen over the laundry. Saturday night, Bishop said he was angry and retrieved the shotgun after the arguments, loaded the weapon and shot his mother and Allen in their bedroom. He told detectives he then reloaded the shotgun and shot them again.
Bishop called 911 to report the shootings and surrendered to deputies at his front door, sheriff’s officials said.
Detectives said a friend bought the shotgun for Bishop a couple of weeks ago at a local shop for $279. Bishop pawned a number of electronic items to get money to buy it, saying he needed the weapon for protection from gang members, according to the sheriff’s office.
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Bishop has been diagnosed with schizophrenia, the sheriff said. He requires medication for his mental health issues and reportedly had not always taken his medication as required, according to investigators.
The sheriff said Bishop was still on probation for a 2011 domestic battery incident in which he allegedly struck his mother and tried to strangle her.
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What a sad story. It makes me thankful for the mentally healthy son I have.
The sad part is that mental illness is a gray area... because when do you say that someone who is mentally ill is no longer capable of living in society? How violent of an attack is enough of a warning sign? Or if there are no overt signs and just suppressed hostility and dangerous statements being made, at what point does that person lose their Constitutional right to own a firearm, or say what they wish and have it called "free speech," versus society determining that they are a threat and must be confined and have those rights removed?
Since the pharmaceutical companies came out with their "wonder drugs" and mental health hospitals closed down by the thousands in the '60s/'70s, thinking that drugs were the answer and confining people was no longer necessary, there's really no place to send those that need help or to squirrel away those that shouldn't be in society any more.
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Told an 18 year old schizophrenic to go get a job and pay rent? How badly impaired was he? Not to say they deserved it, but there was also likely some pretty bad parenting here.
He had a bad day...
@Brenda: you obviously don't know much about parenting a mentally disabled child. And you definitely don't know this situation. Mentally challenged children do not respond to the kind of "parenting skills" most parents do. Mental illness has nothing to do with parenting skills.
Brenda, you have just insulted thousands of people with mental illnesses. With proper treatment, most can and do lead very productive, non-violent lives. Following his meds treatment plan, getting a job, and paying rent are not unreasonable. If, in fact, that is what happened. The victims can't tell their side now, can they?
The 'friend' who bought the gun should also be charged with 1st degree intentional homicide. He's as guilty as the kid who pulled the trigger. This was clearly planned and well thought out. The shooter knew he would not pass a background check so he didn't even try to make the buy himself.
Schizophrenia is rather difficult to conceal if, as the article states, he didn't always take his meds. The friend who bought the gun for this mentally ill person is in a boat load of trouble! What the hell was he/she thinking? Also it is considered premeditated as he reloaded and shot them again...the reloading makes it premeditated even if he claims that he bought the shot gun for protection from the gangs!
BW-267706....au contrare....parenting skills are everything for a impaired child...
Brenda, you've no idea what you are talking about.
This mentally ill kid committed premeditated double homicide and should be incarcerated for the rest of his life, at the least. So should the purchaser of the shotgun.
... yet another story about a sick teenager and violence.
I assume the mother and boyfriend knew nothing about the shotgun, so I don't know why you made that up. The NRA also said nothing about it being ok, and it's not their fault. The other person who actually bought the gun is at fault and should have never given it to his friend.
@Arterian, I don't think you read the article properly--they didn't have a gun around in the house -- he obtained it himself unbeknownst to them.
.
StandUpJokeOff,
The hospitals didn't close because of the 'wonder drugs', they closed because the are VERY VERY VERY EXPENSIVE to operate and also, because a=hole lawyers and institutions like the ACLU sued for these people to have more and more rights. Even if they impede on the quality of life of the people surrounding the mentally ill (like those mentally ill people who harass and terrorize whole neighborhoods, for example), even if they stop taking their medication (it's their 'right' not to).
Families of these people have no say so in institutionalizing them. They have no say in medication, or therapy. There is nothing they can do...
Wonder if the authorities will go after the friend who bought Him the gun? Unlikely.
Actually, mental health hospitals closed down by the thousands in the 80s, right after Reagan defunded them. It had nothing to do with people thinking drugs were the answer.
Florida! --again Florida! Is their drinking water toxic or something, causing the emergence an entire new species of humans?
In our country, we start on the premise of having more freedoms, not less freedoms. There were several factors which allowed this case to escalate. First, the friend who helped this young man get the gun who knew he had a mental illness. The second, those with mental illness in our society must commit a serious act of self harm or harm to others before legal consequences can be taken to get on a list to prevent them from owning guns.
I knew an amazing teacher who worked with troubled high risk youth in crisis. Including many in gangs, mental illness, delinquency, abuse and every other possible histories one could think of. She just happened to also have a son in his older twenties living at home also struggling with schizophrenia. Over a number of years, Susan had tried unsuccessfully to get help for him but was turned down. While struggling just to get him to stay on his medications. He didn't like the side effects.
The major problem was, he had not harmed himself, nor others yet. Because of her experience on the job, she was well aware of the potential dangers of this disease and what could happen to others, including herself and himself. In addition, he had younger siblings still at home. Regardless of her constant, almost weekly desperate pleas for help to hospitals and other resources, she met with stone walls and being turned down.
Then one day we got the shocking news,this funny great guy had murdered his mother during an episode. Everyone was devastated , while also learning he attempted suicide from remorse. Stunned he had demonstrated this level of violence towards such an incredible mother
We want to respect people's rights to freedoms in life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. We want to protect our rights to own guns.We demand people do something to protect others from those with mental illness. It's a fact of life one can't read others minds nor predict who will turn violent. It is a gray area to be sure. But giving the government control to block everyone who has any type of mental illness isn't the answer. Since most will never lead one to violence. Even those which could, never will. It is the exceptions hear about. With over 378 million people in the United States that is not that high a number of people.
Most folks don't realize 1 in 4 will experience mental illness at some point. Does that mean they could kill someone and should be put on a list and not allowed to own a gun? It is a slippery slope indeed. Freedom from government control over our lives comes at a steep price indeed. The price will be some people die, so we all keep the freedom to live our lives as we choose to. Would we have it any other way? As has been quoted, those who give up freedoms to have security, end up having neither.
We start down a very dangerous path when we begin limiting or taking away someone's rights because of what they might do. People without mental illness commit acts of violence also. Should we take away gun ownership rights from people who have demonstrated a history of violence? Fights in high school? Can't buy guns. Domestic violence? Yelled at someone at work? There is no perfect answer except that we all know the answers after something has happened, don't we?
I don't think we know enough, at least from this article, to reasonably decide what should happen with the guy that bought the gun. We don't know how much he knew about his friend's illness. We don't know how reasonable he thought the argument was about protection from gangs. We don't know how old the buyer was and how much or for how long the shooter pressured him to buy the gun. We don't know whether or not he should have reasonably suspected that the shooter would use the weapon to kill his parents.
I'm so glad I do not have kids. It's horrible stories like this that make me feel better for being selfish.
We're all glad you don't have kids, too. You, and all others of your mindset, should keep making improvements in the gene pool like that, and pretty soon all we'll have left will be normal, caring, unselfish, fully functional human beings who don't think murder is a good answer to their problems.
Just because he is mentally ill does not mean he should not hang for this crime. We make way too many excuses for people.
Windancersong - I hear what you are saying, but the statistics are quite scary. so many of our jails are filled with people who have mental health problems.
a lot of them would likely have been in mental health facilities, getting treatement and having at the very least a sense of freedom even if it's not real freedom.
instead, because of inabilities to keep jobs, or just the nature of their illness, they wind up committing crime after crime, usually petty crimes like theft or stupid crimes like being homeless and sleeping on the streets.
our prisons and jails are simply filling the void after we closed the hospitals.
it's a great illusion to believe these people are "free" until they do something bad, and since MOST wont MURDER someone, we like to pretend MOST arent sitting in jail, locked up anyway.
it's simply not true.
Oh sure, there are plenty with loving families who keep them well taken care of for life (as most people with bad mental illness will never be able to fully take care of themselves)...but those realities are becoming the exception, not the rule.
When families cant financially, emotionally, physically or in any other form take care of their mentally ill children...society ends up doing it anyway.
I'd prefer hospitals to jails...but thats just me.
@Mac,
Yes, the authorities will go after the friend. This was a straw purchase and is illegal.
What a crappy friend this guy has.The young man suffers from schizophrenia and doesn't always take his medications the article states. The sad reality is that we do not have enough mental health facilities for the mentally ill.Our lovely government cut back on mental health care during the Reagan years.Our society waits until the mentally ill commit crimes and then they are housed in prisons.This method of taking care of the mentally ill in this country is not working and it is not acceptable to me.
Schizophrenics and other people with mental illnesses can usually lead a normal life when they are taking the right medications. However, sometimes a doctor has to try several different meds, or even a combination of, before finding the right one(s) for the patient. Some of the meds have very unpleasant side effects and that's why alot of mentally ill people choose not to take them.
For example, someone who is bipolar experiences periods of extreme "highs". When they feel this way, they feel invincible, spontaneous, adventurous, incredibly good. But they are not considering the consequences of their actions during these "highs". A bipolar person usually loves the high periods of the illness because they feel like they can do anything. The other side, or sides, of the disease is mania and extreme depression to the point of suicidal tendencies. When medicated, they "level out". They lose their mania as well as their"high" moments. A person I knew who was bipolar didn't like to take his meds because of losing the highs. He just felt like he was existing and nothing else. He didn't feel "free" anymore. Most of the meds cause sexual side effects too. That's why alot of patients wont take them.
When a schizophrenic is having an "episode" that person is incapable of knowing right from wrong, Usually they are hallucinating, hearing voices and seeing things that are not there. It's a very terrible disease.
But from what I've read in this situation, it just sounds like he was tired of living under his Mom's rules. It doesn't sound like he was having an episode if he was in the right state of mind to call the police and turn himself in. Sounds like premeditation. He probably thinks since he is schizophrenic he won't do any time in prison.
Windancersong wrote eloquently stating the problem and how to address it. While someone else did purchase the gun for this guy, did the friend know how serious his illness was? Schizophrenia doesn't always manifest itself as dangerous or even frightening and odd. If this guy was on his meds during the times the friend saw him, he might believe the story about the gangs. It is not up to us, readers of an article and posting, to judge. Please remember this.
The extended family has endured a tremendous loss. Even a family with mental illness in it, loves the members. My older sister is bi-polar and has been suicidal for the past 25 years. When she takes her meds she does well. Unfortunately, they make her lethargic and she cannot perform in her chosen profession - she is a talented artist. She has three children and a husband that help her (she is now 57) and when she is off her meds (to paint), the rest of my family worries that her mental illness that benefits her art, will end her life. In 25 years the meds have changed and still the result is the same, a mental fog she cannot swim through.
How do we help our mentally ill when the medicines provided do not fulfill their needs? Even this teen had problems mentioned with his meds. Perhaps he would have made the choice to stay ON the meds if the side effects weren't so problematic. If so, is he entirely culpable for not taking the meds? There are always extenuating circumstances, and that is something that needs to be remembered.
It does not matter if they friend was aware of his mental illness. He participated in a conspiracy to purchase a firearm for someone who could not buy one legally. It was a "straw purchase" and the friend is directly responsible for allowing this mentally ill man to murder two people. He has a domestic violence conviction so he could not own the firearm on that basis alone. This is as bad as it gets...
ArterianMSP.....I doubt very seriously if his parents knew about the shotgun the son had recently acquired. He probably had it hidden away.
U were once a kid yourself blake.
I cannot figure out why Brenda's comment was collapsed. What she said could very well be true. If the kid knowingly had mental issues, why was his mother trying to argue with him over anything? That would be considered bad parenting in my book.
Everything is not related to parenting. Actually it is related to multiple factors when it comes to mental health issues. You cannot force a person to take their psychiatric medications, in WA the age of consent is for psych meds is 13. You cannot reason with or "parent" a schizophrenic who is actively delusional or psychotic. I would like to know how long Brenda, or all of those who believe this was "poor parenting" would have maintained this adult child in their home when he refused to take his meds and just how do you get a actively psychotic person to cooperatively live in your home.
Parents take care of their severely mentally ill children because they love them and do not want them institutionalized, and there are state funded group homes for this, but they are limited and very costly. She chose to have her 18 year old in her home after he tried to choke her in 2011, when I assume he was 17. She appears to have loved her child, or at a minimum have felt a sense of responsibility for him, to have him living in her home rather than having his mental health agency place him in supportive living for adults with severe mental health issues or putting him on the street.
As many people have written the majority of those with chronic mental health issues function well, are supporting members of society, and lead fullfilling lives. They take their medication as prescribed, learn coping strategies that they can use when they have symptoms, and are loving caring people who make good decisions. However there are also those who do not take their meds or who's meds are ineffective and those are the one's we hear about on the news, those are the one's we see on the streets, and those are the one's that are in our jails and insitutions.
Windancersong, Fabulous post!
Guns don't kill people.....???!!!!
For useyurnoggin and others - You are absolutely right.
"Guns don't kill people" The NRA kills people!
FLORIDA again!
The 'friend' better be charged as an accessory....
would you feel better if he just torched the place while they slept?
it was the FOOL not the TOOL....
Too bad he didn't finish the job by putting it in his own mouth and save the taxpayers 70 years of care.
Again and Again An American Universal HealthCare System with Full "Examine and Retain" Psychiatric Staffing is needed Like the SANE Countries have; COMBINED with RE OPENING AND FUNDING All Of the State Mental Hospitals which Big Pharma and the republicaCrimeCartelAristocrats closed down for "medication Therapy" which is really PROFIT THERAPY For these 1-10% and Corporate Sociopaths. You think OUR American Society is DysFunctiuonal Now?? Be sure to KEEP the republicanCrimeCartelSoldiers MittTaxPittanceRommel and his PARTNER IN CRIME Lyin'Ryan OUT of power or Else You Ain't Seen Nothin' Yet.
It seems that gun possession is becoming more the norm rather than the exception, and the more people get used to the gun culture, the more normal some people (usually impressionable young men) see it is to settle a disagreement with a gun instead of with words.
Look how jaded we have become when an incident such as this one is learned about. Nobody blinks an eye, but instead, you get indifferent, frivolous comments such as John's (#2.5).
This should be alarming to most intelligent people, the culture that we have become; but isn't the NRA jubilant?!
mozzie-600
I don't know what country you have been living in but this country has been a gun culture since it began. Ask the American Indians whether the white men settle arguments with guns. Look at our federal government that is, as we speak, settling differences with guns. The more things change the more they stay the same.
And I don't believe it is a frivolous comment by the way. The world is over populated anyway. Why add another to the entitlement side.
An axe would have worked just as well.
Nope because if you take away the gun who is to say he wouldn't have just cut their jugular vein while they slept? Guns don't cause people to become violent.
Well it is a good thing your theory is wrong considering gun violence has been cut in half since the early mid 90's and gun ownership and the amount of guns owned has gone up. Also there is nothing wrong with gun possession becoming the norm rather than the exception.
Most intelligent people would have looked at Federal crime statistics before making such a statement and would have seen that crime rates have been falling especially gun violence for the past 20 years. Your cheap shots at gun owners and the NRA are quite pathetic.
John: I live in the United States, and obviously, I'm talking about the general population, whereas you are referring to the military. We no longer live isolated from each other as we did during the 1800's; and our lives are not in danger because we no longer live on stolen land.
We have spent the last millennia becoming civilized, only to begin now sliding backwards with the easing of gun laws. I don't think that's a good thing.
mozzie-600
Yes, but when you call for gun control you are taking them out of the hands of the good guys because the bad guys don't get them legally. That attitude makes us all victims. If we have become so civilized, why don't I dare walk down Lake St in MPLS. I think wishing the world is better than it is makes all of us less safe.
John: All things being equal, wouldn't you rather walk down Lake Street with your wits and your fists (all things being equal, now) than with a gun? At least you would stand a better chance of not going to the morgue as the star attraction.
Some of us are doing more than wishing, we're leading by example.
No, if I were to, I would want protection, because even the cops stay away, but I wouldn't walk down Lake St anyway because I know what is there and I am smarter than that. That doesn't mean that I should not have the right to protect myself with any means necessary. You are blaming gun owners for crimes rather than holding those responsible for the crimes accountable. This civilization you write of has created 100 laws to protect the guilty for every one to protect the innocent.
Thanks, but I will keep my guns.
Who are the good GUY's?
Where do the bad guy's get the gun's? (from the so-called good guy's trying to make a buck)...
This story is telling how things happens...this kid, ask a friend (good guy) to buy him a gun and he did...
Thanks GOOD GUY...I will inform the police on how I received this weapon after I turned myself in...
This country is going down, and the people here making stupid remarks will find themselves in a situation where they do not have their gun...
There is nothing cool about someone bragging about shooting and killing a defenseless animal for no reason like a bear, elephant, tiger, dear, etc...
Impress me, use a knife or an axe to kill these animals...if you buy a gun, it will be used in some type of crime...eventually!
You can kill with a broomstick, bat, pipe wrench, chair, baseball bat and on and on I could go. You want to outlaw guns USEYURNOGGIN I am with you as long as we outlaw everything that can potentially be used to murder.
I hope you never get into a situation where you have to defend yourself with you bare hands against and armed individual and the only cop is 10 minutes away.
Your interpretation of my comments is not what I intended. I am addressing the blasé, indifferent society we have become regarding our use of guns. It no longer is shocking to hear about someone’s life being taken away for, in may instances, a silly reason or no reason at all. It happens every day, all day long, all over the nation. The rest of the world thinks we are crazy, and I don’t think they are far off their assessment.
PBShort
Guns have been in my family for a hundred years and never sold, nor used in a crime. Perhaps you could point out some statistics.
And I don't get terribly concerned about not having a gun on my person for two reasons. 1 I have a third degree black belt so I can handle myself. 2 I stay out of situations that would cause me to need either.
And bears elephants and tigers (even though there aren't many roaming the US) are not defenseless animals.
mozzie-600
I was not even remotely being blase about my comment of 2.5. I was dead serious that the country would be better off without people like him. Even MSNBC is giving excuses for his behavior, and that attitude is sickening. Also, I was not marginalizing the death of his mom and her boyfriend, that is a tragedy.
It’s sickening to me that you would be impressed by someone using a knife or an axe to kill an endangered animal such as the tiger, or any innocent creature. Your values are very disturbed.
John: Explanation accepted. The kid in this scenario is mentally ill (schizophrenic, I believe) and we don't kill these kinds of people. Instead, we are grateful that we don't walk in his shoes, aren't we?
May your day go as you wish it, and may the Broncs win tonight!
I have 1 sister that is mentally retarded and another who is schizophrenic and I have to say that my schizophrenic sister knows what she is doing most of the time even off meds. I simply think we are too tolerant some times.
You too, and enjoy your game.
mozzie-600 isn't the NRA jubilant?!
That's ridiculous. Of course the NRA doesn't want murders, and of course no one is happy or jubilant when tragedies happen. To blame the NRA or to blame legal, legitimate firearms owners for this is silly. Deer hunters, farmers, sports shooters, duck hunters, gun collectors, Olympic Bi-Athletes, Sporting Clay shooters or the NRA are NOT to blame and they are of course NOT happy about murders. To suggest that ANYONE is jubilant or happy about this is ridiculous and insulting.
I know!!! Let's pass a law against guns, because the law against Son's murdering their Mother's in bed worked so well. And the Law against people with Mental Illness purchasing guns to use them in Murders worked so well. Hey, what we really need is a new law to punish legal and responsible hunters and farmers and target shooters - that'll solve the problem.
Great Post ToddC 1160496! I do believe the law has been on the books about they can't chop their mother up in Massachusetts for quite some time! Any weapon works with a devious mind!
You can argue gun control all day long if you like on a theoretical basis - the old "take the guns away and only the bad guys have guns" type of argument. You can then look at the real world and see that there is little gun violence in any of the countries that do have strict gun control. Sportsmen still have access to guns and can enjoy sporting activities involving guns as they desire.
Worse yet, the average gun owner lets the NRA speak for them. The NRA is nothing more than a lobbying organization for gun manufacturers. Do your research, see where the NRA's money comes from. While you are at it, see which manufacturers make automatic weapons and how much they contribute to the NRA. Then you'll understand the stance the NRA takes on gun control issues.
ToddC:
You misread my post, thus all your sarcasm was unnecessary. I did not say that the NRA loves murders. The organization is far too smart to make such a foolish statement. Their goal, apparently, is to get as many guns on the street, and people used to them, as possible. This is becoming a reality, for which they must be pleased if not jubilant. I also said the changing culture and societal consequences we are experiencing should be alarming to most intelligent people. No wonder you didn’t pick up on that.
John in NW PA (#2.25) is a very smart guy. Listen to what he has to say.
John in NW PA ...there is little gun violence in any of the countries that do have strict gun control.
Hi John. Well, let's be clear... Countries that make all gun ownership at essentially any capacity illegal for everyone (an outright ban) and tightly ban all gun ownership and all importing at any level - that's one situation. On the other hand, places like Washington DC or Toronto Canada that try to solve a crime problem by making it restrictive or illegal to legally own guns, while guns are still available in the general illegal marketplace or illegally across state lines - that's a totally different situation. Absolutely in areas like that, "take the guns away and only the bad guys have guns'' is the case. When Washington enacted their gun ban and there were line up's of people turning in their firearms to comply with the law - does anyone really believe the criminals and drug dealers were in that lineup? Does anyone really think that any criminal was saying ''I was planning on robbing the liquor store and killing the owner tonight, BUT unfortunately it's now illegal to own a gun, so I better turn it in". OF COURSE that doesn't happen and of course only the criminals keep their guns.
If we could somehow erase all guns from existance and erase all knowledge of how to make and where to get guns, then that would potentially be different. That's my problem with the idea of ''more gun laws''. The agenda and argument is that it's typically a veiled, manipulative argument. If the anti-gun folks would be honest and say that their true end-game objective is an outright ban on all guns at all levels and that their objective is to make all private ownership 100% illegal period, then we could debate it above ground. However, they want to chip away at legal, responsible gun owners with laws and registration and licensing schemes that will only affect the people who will respect those laws, which is the legal, responsible gun owners. Those are the people that also respect the anti-murder and anti-drug-crime laws right now.
There are about 700 gun related deaths in the USA from legally owned and operated guns every year. Don't get me wrong - that is 700 tragedies, but among 200-300 million legally owned guns, and 300+ million American's - that's on par with accidental swimming pool deaths, accidental ATV deaths, accidental deaths from reactions to Parkinson medicine, accidental deaths from falling off bicycles without wearing a helmet. The rest of the Firearm related deaths are already against other laws that people are choosing to disobey.
John in NW PA
And as a percentage, what crimes are committed by those in the US that legally purchased their firearms? Yes, there are lobbyists working for the manufacturers, and there are just as many who lobby the other side, forsaking the Second Amendment. Not that that matters much because the rest of the constitution doesn't mean much any longer anyway. But in any case, there is a reason it is in there, and at some point it may come to that.
mozzie-600
Why do you assume that those that have differing opinions are not just as smart? Just because they don't agree with the social engineering that is going on on both sides of the aisle? Why do you believe you have the right to legislate how others choose to live? Because I guarantee to you that if you choose to believe that you have the moral right to legislate how others live, then by precedent of law, they also will have the right to do the same to you, no matter what you believe. This is not only about gun rights, but has parallels to many other topics that should never be in the national debate because they are guaranteed by the constitution. And are only in the debate because of lobbyists buying our politicians to push the views of the extremes, both right social engineers and left social engineers, in our society.
mozzie-600 ToddC: You misread my post, thus all your sarcasm was unnecessary.
Hi Mozzie - sorry, I did not mean to come across as sarcastic, so I apologize if that is the way I sounded. I did honestly think you were implying that the NRA is pleased or jubilant about guns on the street being used illegally like this case. If that is what you believe, then I think you are incorrect. I don't believe that the NRA (or any organization that is trying to protect the legal and legitimate and responsible ownership and use of Firearms) would be pleased or jubilant about the illegal or irresponsible use of Firearms. This case is a tragedy for sure, and no one should be pleased.
I also said the changing culture and societal consequences we are experiencing should be alarming to most intelligent people. No wonder you didn’t pick up on that.
Hmmmm... That seems a bit sarcastic now... :) No need for that from either of us - if we are going to debate the issue based on our opinions and ideas, then let's do that, OK? If we are going to degrade to 'name calling', then that won't get either of us anywhere.
I do agree that we have a changing culture and that here are societal consequences arising from that. I think we probably disagree on what exactly has changed in our culture - I think in this case it's the idea that we should enact laws and restrictions to punish legal and responsible gun ownership, when the problem is the criminal and the criminal use of guns.
John in NW PA (#2.25) is a very smart guy. Listen to what he has to say
Yes, he made a well spoken point. I disagree with some of his points, but his argument is well made. It is unfortunate in most issues that a 'moderate' voice isn't often heard. Currently in politics it seems that the 'tea party' and the 'far-left-libbers' are the voice for the two sides, when neither of them represent the middle 80% of the country. Likewise I would agree that the NRA doesn't represent all the views of every responsible gun owner, but without them, farmers and hunters and target shooters would likely have lost all their guns long ago, and then the only ones left with guns would be the criminals.
Likewise my point was that this debate usually get's into 'criminals vs the right to personal-protection' - when the VAST majority of the 200-300 million guns are owned by legal, responsible gun owners who are simply duck hunting or target shooting and they have NOTHING to do with pointing their guns at anyone else for criminal reasons or for personal protection reasons, and doesn't even really want to be part of the debate. That moderate-middle is the huge center percentage and it get's lost in the debate.
Guns don't make people violent, but when violent people have a gun, they can do a lot more damage that someone with a knife or a hammer. People should have access to guns, but it should at least be as hard as getting a driver's license with training and testing and ID checks before they can take their gun home.
To GregE-1776004
"You can kill with a broomstick, bat, pipe wrench, chair, baseball bat and on and on I could go. "
That's a load of craps. If he could use any of the weapons you've listed then why did he have to pawn a number of electronic items to get money to buy a gun? Why because guns make it easier to kill. On the same argument, you gun nuts people always said you need guns to protect yourself. Well if you can use a broomstick to defend yourself then why do you still need a gun? You people are such a hyprocite.
Once again, the main thing about mental illness is that there is a lack of coping skills and this just proves it. He did not hear voices or was told what to do by someone who was not there or listened to a movie. He did it because he did not want to follow the rules. They need to start locking up the mentally ill who are a danger to society and many are schizo. Mentally ill people ARE violent and it is a myth to say they aren't. I hope this guy is executed. His mom should have never let him come back home.
The Regular Guy
I fail to understand a few things. You state that this boy pawned a few electronic items to be able to afford to trade it for a gun? (which I read also)This really sounds a little like premeditated murder to me. Why exactly are you still not blaming the criminal for his actions? It was not the gun. It was his intention with the gun. Availability an issue, maybe, but the underlying issue is that you are blaming the gun rather than the psychopath using it. Just out of curiosity, do you honestly believe that if you remove the availability of guns from psychopaths that they will somehow be cured, or do you have a problem holding them accountable for their actions? I am guessing the latter, because it is always easier to blame someone, or society than to take personal responsibility for actions.
I would concede that if we put restrictive gun laws in place there would be some period of time where criminals would continue to have guns in large numbers, but that would be no different that it is now. As the gun laws took effect, over time, there would be fewer and fewer illegal guns and the problem of criminals having guns is ultimately diminished to the point where it is no longer significant. While gun violence continues, I am not seeing more and more citizens solving the problem with their personal arsenal as many would suggest.
ToddC, above, argues that even with the restrictive gun laws in force in Canada, there is significant gun violence in Toronto, as there is in Washington, DC, that also has tougher gun laws. In doing a little research, I could come up with some numbers regarding firearm deaths for both cities. Toronto has had 21 gun deaths through July 22, 2012, with a population of 2.6 million, or .81 deaths per 100,000 would occur in one year. In 2010, Washington, DC had 16 firearm murders per 100,000 citizens. So while Toronto has a higher number of firearm deaths than is typical in Canada, it is dramatically less than the number of gun deaths in D.C. Washington does have a somewhat more restrictive gun laws, but there are still lots of guns available in D.C. and surrounding areas as even our "restrictive" gun laws are extremely liberal compared to other "first world" countries.
Todd also comments that there are 700 deaths from legally owned firearms, and I would agree that while this is a tragedy, it is really an extraordinarily low number considering the number of legally owned guns. The other side of the coin is shocking. The total number of firearm deaths in 2009 (from the CDC) was 31,347. I trust Todd's number of 700 deaths as being accidental, which would mean we had in excess of 30,000 firearm deaths as a result of a crime. Now, for example, let's say you want to vacation in Mt. Airy, NC to relive your memories of The Andy Griffith Show. Their population in 2010 was just over 10,000. That means every citizen would be dead three times over every year, if you want a demonstration of how many 30, 000 dead are. That is not acceptable, obviously.
I suspect that reasonable people could come to an agreement on how to regulate gun ownership. The problem is, reasonable people do not prevail in this country in the current political environment, regardless of political affiliation. Money talks, so the NRA has a loud voice. I would again encourage interested persons to research the NRA. They have many members, and of course each member pays a membership fee, that provides significant funds. But the real money for the NRA comes from gun manufacturers. Now, if Mr. LaPierre wants to keep his $970,000 salary, you can bet he is going to advocate for his big contributors, not the folks paying their $35 annual membership dues. The NRA's views are extreme, and it seems they oppose any and every attempt to pass gun control laws. Reasonable people might be able to come to some other agreement.
Guns are part of our history. Gun sports provide significant income for businesses in my area. Turkey, deer and bear are hunted here and provide good sport and good income locally. I suspect most folks that want gun control do not want to outlaw guns, but provide sufficient regulation to make it extremely difficult to use them in a crime. It works in other countries around the world, and could work here.
And for the more extreme that feel their guns will save them when the "guvmint" comes to take them, and make us all slaves to whoever is going to take over, give me a break. Something tells me that your handguns, rifles, assault rifles and so on are going to be no match for drones, stealth bombers and the like. Well, I will concede they will be helpful for the coming zombie apocalypse that will occur in December when the Mayan calendar comes to an end. (Sorry, it's a weak attempt at humor.)
Scooter is right! If he did not have the gun, he would have more than likely TORCHED the place instead. They should have incarcerated him from the get-go, after the FIRST incident involving domestic violence. Either way, with his freedom, he had the will and I am absolutely SURE he would have improvised something. A poster boy for the death penalty indeed, and I am ashamed of its disuse in the State of Florida.
Yes John, I was referring to legally owned and operated guns - guns that are not stolen, imported illegally, purchased by mentally ill people, purchased by felons, or used by drug dealers or gang members with the intention to commit murder - and that number is about 700 deaths per year.
In 2,000 for example, that number was 776 deaths from legally owned and operated guns. Again, don't get me wrong - that is 776 horrible, tragic, deaths. But, in perspective of 350 Million Americans and all causes of deaths, that's on par with the number of accidental deaths from ridding a bicycle (740), ridding an ATV (717), boating accidents (630), from swimming pools (567), falling out of bed (650), choking on food (744), Excessive natural cold (742) & Anti-Epileptic/Anti-Parkinson drugs (704). Clearly - the guns owned by farmers and hunters and collectors are no bigger threat to American than swimming pools or freezing or riding a bike is.
The original poster said that ''95% of guns are used to kill family members'' and many people actually believe that, because every time they hear about guns in the news, it's because of a crime. What you don't hear about is the 99.9997% of guns that are used by hunters, farmers, target shooters and collectors. They are not used for crime, AND equally as important, they are not used for 'personal protection' or 'arming the militia' either - they are just used for hunting, target shooting, farming and collecting.
The suggestion that we should penalize these farmers and hunters, rather than punish the criminals, is wrong. The belief that passing laws and restrictions on legal firearm owners, with the idea that it'll somehow control the criminals that have already decided that they will commit crimes with guns - that's simply wrong.
UNLESS as you point out, we somehow remove all guns from everyone, including these farmers and hunters - but that's obviously not going to be possible by simply requesting that everyone turns in their guns. On that day, obviously there will be no criminals and gang members in the line. The only way we could get all the guns, from everyone, everywhere, would be to go door to door and confiscate them.
Also, even that wouldn't even work n the criminals. We can't stop illegal immigration across the borders, how would we stop unregistered guns from coming in? Canada tried to stop Cigarettes and guns from being smuggled from New York to Quebec - and even with our restrictive gun laws, it has not slowed illegal gun ownership. It has treated legal gun owners like criminals, and it has occupied the time and BILLIONS of the budgets of police and governments trying to track all these guns - but it's done nothing to slow or prevent the flow of illegal guns.
Please don't misunderstand me - you and I do agree that there is a problem that needs solving. We disagree on how to solve it. In Canada, we do have 'safe storage laws' that require weapons to be stored in certain manners, and I personally agree with them. The government also passed a 10 year mandatory sentence for essentially any crime involving a gun. Those are excellent starts and they have helped keep criminals with any history of gun crime behind bars.
It's so wonderful to read about so many of these types of things happening around the country.
This is just one of many.
A lot of new "Happy Faces" for that wonderful organization, the N R A.
That kinda stuff has happened regularly as long as there have been people. It just seems like it is increasing because the media thrives on sensational stories. It attracts more viewers than the story about Aunt Matilda winning the bake-off in Amanda, Iowa.
Igor from Redwood Country
where does it say he was affiliated in any way with the NRA? His "buddy" bought it for him, because he was a KNOWN mental patient thereby he was not able to purchase it himself, thereby making it an ILLEGAL transaction. unfortunately you simply cant outlaw MORONS.
tell ya what don't like guns fine, have a nice day put a sign on your door its a "gun free" zone. the criminal element wouldn't dare come in then...isn't that the way it works?
You also have to put garlic up, but since he lived there (the bloodsucker) it wouldn't work anyway!
Igor,
Get a grip on reality. The "poor" schizo was smart enough to play "poor me" to his "friend" that went and purchased the shotgun and rounds. The "poor" schizo was also smart enough to pawn his numerous electronic items (any bets on X-Box and the many "kill 'em" games?) in order to raise the almost $300 for his "friend" to purchase said weapon. When is "poor little" Schizo Bishop going to take any responsibility for breaking the law before to 2 murders he committed?
You are "kind enough" to blame the NRA. Do the initials FO mean anything to you (and I do not mean Forward Observer!) Try coming over to reality, unless that does not meet with your belief system.
The son (the Murderer) is to blame. The friend (who illegally supplied the gun to a schizophrenic person) is to blame. Our system who allows someone who's already tried to murder his mother by strangling her back into the same house is to blame.
The MILLIONS of legal, responsible gun owners, farmers, hunters and target shooters who make up the vast majority of the NRA are not to blame. New laws to suppress and punish the legal and responsible people are not fair, and they won't be any more effective than the ''don't murder your mother in bed'' laws or the ''don't illegally supply guns to a schizophrenic'' laws have been.
What is called for is registration of all firearms and a ban on handguns and automatic weapons.
Hi Takenaka - So when they enact that law, who do you really, truly, in your heart believe will be in the lineup to turn in all the handguns? Do you truly, honestly believe that the criminals, drug dealers and gang bangers will be dutifully lining up to turn in their hand guns too? I know that the law abiding citizens - the hunters, farmers, target shooters, firearms historians and gun collectors - will be there, reluctantly following the laws. But I don't imagine the gang banger who bought his gun for $50 and a bag of weed will be there, pulling the loaded 9mm out of his waistband and turning it in as per your requests.
I'm not trying to be glib, disrespectful or sarcastic - I'm honestly interested if you have thought about that day and who you honestly envision to be in that lineup?
takenaka- you say this on every single nbc acticle that remotely involves firearms! and first of all this wasn't a handgun or automatic... anyways the "friend" bought the gun legally. So I don't know what you're blabbing about.
"If guns are outlawed... only outlaws will have them"
This is the tragic result of underfunding mental health care services in this country. We can clearly see the result of the Reagan administration gutting federal funding, closing hospitals and "returning these patients to their communities", i.e. under a bridge near you. As the mother of a schizophrenic son, I can relate to the frustration and desperation this woman must have experienced. Honestly, this could have been me. My son is doing relatively well at the moment and I pray for his continued stability. This is due in large part to the simple fact that he has survived (he is now 36). The older a schizophrenic gets, the better able he is to distinguish between objective reality and what is going on in his head. Many do not get that opportunity. Watch A Beautiful Mind. It does a truly excellent job of portraying what it is like to suffer from this horrific disease, which disproportionately affects males and nearly always strikes those of superior intelligence.
Re Reagan, he didn't want to infringe on their "civil liberties", yet when he was senile, his family certainly controlled him, kept him in good living quarters, fed him, and so on. He should have had his "freedom".
The GOP think running a govt is like business. Every program has to be "profitable"...
They will never understand Medicare, mental health care, universal health... or just simple ideas like libraries or public schools.
If it was up to them - libraries and public schools should be banned or charge a price.
Montego
I bet you are still trying to learn the songs "Kumbaya" & "I'd like to teach the world to sing in perfect harmony". Try reality, it works.
You are right that not every single aspect of Government can or should be run like a business. BUT, it is also true that Governments themselves don't really have any 'Government money'. All the money that Governments have is really the People's money. That's a fixed amount of money and all the expenses or running a country really do NEED to fit inside that amount of money. So, we need to either raise more money, or reduce spending - PERIOD. There is no sustainable option.
I don't necessarily agree with everything that Mr Romney says, BUT when he said ''I'm not going to borrow money from China to pay for...." - that made sense to me. As long as countries are running a deficit, they are really borrowing money from China to pay for all these programs. We need to find a way to fund the necessary programs, but we simply need to do it within the boundaries of our income - just like any business or any family budget needs to.
Todd,
And part of that plan has to be to increase revenue. We currently have historically low tax rates. They were cut in a time of war by the previous administration-something that had never been done before, thereby adding tremendously to the deficit. Obama wants to raise them back to the level they were at prior to the tax cut, and reduce spending. Romney wants to reduce spending, but also reduce taxes even more. That cannot be done without adding to the deficit, according to non-partisan tax policy experts. Romney's numbers truly do not add up. He knows the right things to say to make people like you agree with him, but if you don't delve further into it, you won't undersstand the details enough to realize there is no "there" there. That is pretty common with Romney, since he either changes his mind at the turn of a hat, or just says whatever he thinks his particular audience wants to hear at the time. This isn't new for him, this has been his MO ever since he's been in politics. That's what really scares me, I have no idea what he really stands for.
Romney will have to borrow money from somewhere unless he raises taxes and reduces spending. Let's see how many campaign promises become lies, just like all politicians do after they get elected and find out what actually has to be done. He knows he's lying, he's not new to politics. Of course, this is all hypothetical. He hasn't been elected and hopefully won't.
Wrongney will never be able to balance the budget as he plans unless he brings in his own money from his multiple overseas accounts. If Reagan hadn't closed many offices due to federal funding, Wrongney certainly would do it. He's a gut-gut-gut type of guy and the small minded people are falling for it. It took Bush eight-years to get us this deep into debt, it will take the same amount of time to get back out of debt. Who can't realize this? How dense are people?
If Wrongney gets elected, God help us all. He will set back human rights, women's rights, GLBT rights, and citizens rights at least 50 years!
The Democrats have had 16 years in office since Reagan to change their budget allocations for mental health and have chosen not to. So .... maybe we could all quit blaming Reagan!
No Jed, part of the plan needs to be to reduce WASTE! The government has plenty of money. They need to spend it more wisely!
Go after the friend who bought the gun first.
I couldn't help but think the same thing. That friend should be right there with him in prison. Never buy a gun for another person, there's a reason they can't get their own.
The friend that bought the kid the gun committed a felony. He will do jail time.
Neither of you, like the rest of us, know the circumstances underwhich the friend bought the gun. Love the "let's execute them now and investigate later" approach.
The friend bought the gun and that in itself is illegal.I bet money that he knew his friend was mentally ill so that makes the so called friend just as guilty of these murders in my book.You can slice and bake it anyway you'd like but a felony was committed by the friend who purchased the weapon.
How about we let the cops sort it out, the attorneys try the case and the jury judge it. You don't need to be the determining voice in this situation. Case in point, we don't for a fact know that a felony was committed by the friend who "purchased" the weapon. There has been no signed receipt indicating purchase signed by the friend and therefore, it could have been a gift or a borrowed weapon used in the shooting incident. As of this point, the article states the teen is "accused", he hasn't been arraigned and certainly hasn't been convicted. It's best that the language used is less accusatory.
Margo, the teenager called the cops himself after the shooting, told the cops he shot his mother and her boyfriend, surrendered to the cops, and gave a full confession in which he admitted to reloading the shotgun at least once. He also has a record for previously assaulting his mother and trying to strangle her. Saying this teen is just "accused" is a bit of the stretch.
It kind of falls under the saying:
If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, looks like a duck......it's a duck.
I see no duck here. I see a troubled teenager who did not have the help he needed and a family that clearly did not understand his condition or they somehow expected him to be normal even though he was not. I've been there. I'm not saying what the kid did was right because it was not. But mental illness is a hell of a burden. When you add to an incident that lead to the shooting---get a job, pay rent, etc---you are asking for trouble in one way or another. I knew a kid who was mentally unstable. He was scheduled to leave a facility and go back to his family. He didn't want to go back to his family. Something about there made him feel very uneasy---I never asked---but it was so bad he was willing to think about taking his life. After he pulled me aside, I told him I had to tell the adults there. He said that was fine because somehow he knew I would convey what he wanted to say the right way. I did. He was on suicide watch that night and never sent home.
I was in the same facility to see if I was the issue in my home or home life was the issue. Ultimately they concluded my home life was the issue...but my family didn't like hearing that so I still had to deal with years of ridicule and blame...even though I handled my crap while everyone else was failing. I can totally see how this kid may have felt. Sad that no one was there to help the family more.
Who is this "friend" who provided this mentally-ill man with a shotgun?
BMette, see comment 5.2.
People, it is time to wake up and realize what is going on in this country and around the world. When people continuously live in disobedience to God, He turns away and Satanic demons take over. These formerly normal people are being inhabited by demons. Notice how many people are slaughtering others in these end days. Please see 2nd Timothy 3:1-5. Please also see Matthew 12:42-45 about demonic habitation in mankind and also what indicators reveal Jesus' imminent return found at Matthew chapter 24 and Luke chapter 21 in the Bible.
You are wasting your time trying to explain it to them. They did not listen then they will not listen now. They will just laugh and mock you. Protect your family and prepare for worse economic times and cilvil breakdown. I believe we are now on an irreversible path.
Watch out! You're overdue for your medication!
That's what I was thinking too Jerryb! There's more than one who needs their meds!!
faithfulwatcher--You seem to have run out of tin foil again. Have someone drive you to Wal-Mart, Target, or some kind of grocery store and purchase a new supply. Disobedience to Santa Clause did not cause the problem.
'god' is an idiotic idea promoted by immoral people to control and pacify the weak minded.
Actually that kind of fully explains the Democratic Party. Maybe that is why Chris Matthews keeps touting obama as a god.
Wasn't it God that established that there would be an 'end time' ? Isn't that part of His will ?
You seem to decry the coming of this but isn't this the time all that have followed His Commandments will return to Him?
I thought that was to be a joyous thing . Yet you seem to be wringing your hands at its approach. Do you not want Jesus to return as we are told will happen ?
The WBC is on newsvine now?
Proud,
No one touts Obama as God but Republicans. I've truly never known where you get that. No dems ever said he is the Messiah, he will solve all problems, he is perfect, or anything like that.
NBC is showing the picture of the white 17 yo that killed in Colorado, but is not showing the black 17yo that killed in NJ. The hiding of facts is the same as covering for the incompetant black in the white house. The truth is the truth, i do not expect to see the truth at NBC.
What the heck does your comment have to do with a mentally ill teenager in Florida?
Maybe "{blue37}" he / she is just projecting its own inadequacy in dealing its with own mental illness.
They're showing the photo of the white 17yo because he's being tried as an adult, while the prosecution has not yet decided if the two black 17yo suspects in Colorado are being tried as adults or juveniles. Generally news agencies will not show the photos of those being tried as juveniles.
You might want to take a moment and think about what's making you so racist, because ignorant statements like yours are a big problem: you don't know what you're talking about at all, but the first thing you do is shout "they're covering up all the bad things black people do!" Of course you're completely wrong, but that never seems to stop you people from spewing this garbage.
Let us not forget when we the to polls next month that small government does not mean a better one.
Not helping the mentally ill will cost more in the long run
Florida again?
They should put the medicine in the water.
Same as Colorodo also - either missing children or families shooting each in murder / suicides.
I really have no comment on this story. But I had to say something about Florida. It is just- the last story I saw about this there were a few people from Florida that said when they heard about it they said "please don't be Florida" Haha. The coincidence goes on. :)
I have a friend who from FL and escaped to MN as soon as he was 18. When I asked why he left FL he said "because all the nuts roll down to Florida!"
I lived near this city and it is really nice. The problems were always Notherners who were on the run. I am sure all of you "wanted" people could go to Mexico but you would get beheaded for the BS behavior you do. My favorite bumper sticker was I-95 goes both ways, go North and go Home.
IX, I used to live in FL. Sorry, but the problems wasn't northerners on the run. I was the whole environment there. Bad stuff.
Excellent idea - keep a shotgun with shells in the house with a mentally disturbed 18 year old. Well, at least 18 matches their IQ. With a friend like the one who purchased the shotgun for her, is there a need for enemies? With the son already cited for domestic battery for trying to strangle the mother, locking up the shotgun would be the intelligent thing to do. It was just a matter of time this would have happened - too bad they didn't think of that.
pete 15
Try reading the article one more time.
You may then discover his "friend" bought the shotgun and Bishop stored it in his little hideaway place that all schizos have. The 2 victims did not know the weapon was in the house.
Goes to prove that 95% of the guns bought in America winds up SHOOTING YOUR OWN FAMILY !
Even the families of cops / public safety officers are not immune... Enough stories this year of cop's kid shooting themselves FATALLY. You think a cop would put safety locks at home --- but they're stupid too. Easy reach for 4 year or 5 year.
Only 5% or less is ever used for protection.
Play with fire ? Get burned with fire !
I hope that friend gets arrested for 2nd degree murder - aiding and abetting also !
Montego
I have had weapons (rifles, shotguns, revolvers and semi-automatic & combat knives) in my household since approximately 1974. Needless to say, my family did not use any for any criminal activity. Your "pseudo-statistical" method is far from scientific proof.
Go back to your scientific journal, change the batteries in your calculator and try to come up with empirical evidence of you 95%.
montegobay Goes to prove that 95% of the guns bought in America winds up SHOOTING YOUR OWN FAMILY !
That's ridiculous. There are an estimated 200-300 Million legally owned firearms in the USA. That would mean 190 to 285 million murders by your 95% estimate.
montegobay Only 5% or less is ever used for protection.
Again, a ridiculous estimate, and it's forgetting about the MILLIONS of guns that are not used for personal protection or for any crime. Statistically, 99.9996% of legally owned firearms are never used for anything other than hunting, target shooting, collecting, reloading or other sporting uses. The vast majority of firearms that you read about involved in crime are illegally purchased, and are used deliberately to break existing murder, theft or drug laws.
montegobay I hope that friend gets arrested for 2nd degree murder - aiding and abetting also !
On that, I agree with you. That is where the problem & solution lies. Not by punishing a farmer in Wyoming who hunts ducks and keeps Coyotes away from his sheep.
No states currently have competent mental health programs but the south has the worst. This is yet another example of the failed system and what happens when you don't fund health care. This is a great example of what Romney care for the US would look like. Those with means aka the rich will be able to afford quality competent care. If your not one of them or one of the 47% your screwed.
What a tragedy. The person that helped purchase the gun should be arrested also. Also if this man had enough sense to reload and shoot them again, he should be charge with attempted murder 2X and Murder 2x. NO INSANITY PLEAD ACCEPTED.
Maybe this is the start of the next version of the Amityville Horror? Fiction--apparently--but that one started with a deranged son shooting his parents to death in their bed.
" Goes to prove that 95% of the guns bought in America winds up SHOOTING YOUR OWN FAMILY ! "
Can you 'prove' that percentage you give? While I am not an NRA supporter ( I do own a number of guns), this type of bombastic approach to a very real problem plays right into the hands of those who would portray pro gun control advocates as detached from reality. If you can't support what you post, please refrain from cluttering the internet.
The "friend" is in big trouble.
What is happening to this country, children killing parents, parents killing children, Parents can't even tell their children that they want them to pay a little rent to help out, and boom their dead. This is horrible, and I fear it is going to get worse. Our country is going to hell in a handbasket. People are at eachothers throats,not just about the election but petty things. People have forgotten how to love their brothers. Parents have forgotten how to raise their children. Mental health is at an all time high, its as if our whole country is undergoing a mental breakdown. It isn't going to get any better until we forget about ourselves and start thinking about others. When i was 18 and went to work, I paid my mom and dad rent every week when I got paid, i was expected to pay them some. These kids today, do not understand why they have to pay their way, they would rather sit infront of the tv, or computer, than get out and try to find a job. We are in dispair, and falling farther into dispair each day. I don't trust anymore, and I bet alot of people feel the same.. If we don't turn our country around, I am afraid, someone will walk in here and do it for us, and believe me if that happens we won't like it. We are a so called free country. What if all freedomes were take away, what would we do? would we miss them. Your darn right we would, and once they get taken away, we will pay dearly to get them back.
Why is it that the populaces does not comprehend the stagnation that the ACLU and its demented followers have imposed in our country, by kicking Jesus and the 10 commandments out of our Schools, and Court houses, and are trying to remove ALL Christian knowledge from our lives, and even attempt to destroy all of our christian symbols, such as the cross. I have no problem with a person CHOOSING to be a non believer, but consider it to be egregious for them to disallow me to choose to believe, as I see fit, in the christian faith.
I have spent over fifty of my seventy seven years dealing as best I can with a sketso son and will only say, that if you have not worn my shoes, do not attempt to annualized our situation. And what the hell does "Gun Control" and "Florida" and demented political views, have to do with curing Mental Illness? May God bless you, whether you like it or not.
i completely agree with your post. I's saddening and scary that no matter what article's comments that I am reading almost immediately denegrates into bashing Christianity or anyone who offers any Christian comfort or speaks as a Christian. It's like the earth is now populated by mad dogs who search out and become inflamed with hatred of God. I fear for us all.
This is what happens when kids start taking narcotics (prescription drugs, medication) from doctors at an early age. Nobody needs those tons of poison (prescription drugs) that doctors here in the US give to everybody. That is strictly business, that is why the Health industry is worth several trillion dollars a year. Everybody can get to 90, 95 or even 100 without visiting a drug trafficker (doctor).
Tell that to the millions that are stable because of the psychiatric meds they take. And there are NO psychiatric medications that are narcotics, they are classified as stimulant and non-stimulants. They are controlled the same as narcotics because the stimulants the are addictive and can be sold on the black market. Narcotics are "pain medications".
United States Code of Federal Regulations
The term narcotic drug means any of the following, Opium, opiates (heroin, morphine, codiene, oxycodone etc), Poppy straw, Coca leaves, Cocaine, Ecgonine.
Yes there is overprescribing but the medications are also effective and life saving for those that need to take them. Part of the reason for overprescribing medications is cuts in funding for the more expensive and time consuming therapy. Insurance companies allow only x ammount of sessions per year and it is easier, and less expensive, to treat symptoms with meds. Psysicians are in a catch 22 with their time strictly managed so they cannot accurately diagnose (blame that on insurance regulations). Most pediatricians can diagnose ADHD, depression, and anxiety and many have specialties in those disorders and others, such as autism. However, most doctors would prefer a psychiatrist's diagnosis and prescription and then they would do the follow up med prescribing, with monthly med management assessment being done by the psychiatrist.
% ← when you see this, it's a sign someone is lying. FYI
if only the mom and the boyfriend had guns too, none of this would have ever happened!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
we must fallow tha costitution, we need to fix washtinon.
Well according to obama this isn't murder its "just a speed bump."
It is ill advisable to buy a gun for a schizophrenic!
guns don't kill people. now this guy will not have to go get a job and pay rent and he will get free meds and free meals and a roof over his head for life what if he went into a store or a school with that gun not just mom's bedroom and p.s yes mom was having sex with her boy friend they were not married that's what they mean by in bed
What does the mother's marital status, living arrangements, or her sex life, have to do with her, or her boyfriend's, death? That makes no sense.
It makes a lot of sense to me. I dated a girl years ago in church who started a physical relationship with a man outside of marriage after her baptism. She wound up in the mental ward for a couple of weeks.
I've seen various friends deal with mood disorders as a result of sexually indiscriminate behavior in their youth.
Perhaps her lifestyle had everything to do with his disorder if his disorder could be traced to his own sexual behavior that very likely might have to do with her example.
Their behavior on both sides could have been the source of the conflict.
Goldfish, which came first - the chicken or the egg? Do people develop psychological problems as a result of indiscriminate sexual behavior? Or do people engage in indiscriminate sexual behavior because they have psychological problems? (I would submit the it is more commonly the latter as you have suggested).
I believe they do. If they don't follow some rules. Avoid adultery with another man's wife. Leave casual sex to teenagers and grow out of reckless behaviors by our mid 20's. Avoid one night stands. Keep sexual relations to long-term relationships or marriage.
I've seen various people fail to follow the rules above deal with mood disorders. The unfortunate thing is our culture has become more liberal and our entertainment media encourages both behaviors. Sexual indiscriminate behavior and sexual responsibility. Which message are people supposed to listen to, and if our society and our cultural entertainment media encourages irresponsibility and responsible behavior how are people going to know which behaviors result in people dealing with mood disorders that I have seen various people I know personally deal with that completely up and disappeared when they stopped engaging is sexual irresponsibility. No medication. No outpatient medical care. Nothing. They way they felt and their thought processes were directly related to their sexual behavior.
Goldfish, sexual behavior does not cause mood disorders or schizophrenia.
The mood disorder is not the result of the behavior; behavior manifests as a result of the disorder.
Really, try not to comment on topics on which you are so ignorant.
That's curious. I have seen some friends who were promiscuous develop mood disorders versus those who were not raised in a secular fashion never develop these problems.
I've seen some of my high school friends give up casual sex and go on to marriage, have normal careers and not have any problems. No medication....nothing.
If what you are saying is accurate then I shouldn't be witnessing these events in my friends lives.
In other words there is no basis in reality for your hypothesis based on my personal observations in my friends lives both secular and those raised in households of faith.
I'll go a step further. There is very little caution about the psychological consequences of casual sex, except in the movie with Wynona Ryder's character Girl Interrupted where the character does a stint of a couple weeks in an inpatient psychiatric facility. At the end of the movie the manager of this program releases her and tells her that she is "indulgent". Now to the average person that means nothing. To me I see this as sexual indulgence.
In fact within the last few years a porn movie came out called, guess what, "Girls Interrupted".
I'll take it one step further, Go to the Pink Cross website and look at all the porn stars who wound up miserable and ended theirs lives.
Essentially, you are lying to people. Lying is one thing. Deceiving people to the point that it can cost them their lives is mean spirited.
And you think that I am out of touch with reality. That I need to check into a mental institution.
Buddy, let me tell you that its not me that needs help, and I am damn sure am not going to lie to people about the consequences of reckless sexual conduct.
Bear the weight of the Cross, or it will land on your head.
In other words, go back to college and waste another 40 grand. Dumbass
Such a sad story, obviously this woman loved her son, a tragic for everyone involved. Sometimes those who are mentally ill are better off hospitalized so they can get the help they need.
Family Therapy -- NRA style. Not covered by Obamacare, but endorsed some day to some audiences behind closed doors by Romney/Ryan.