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Ohio Education Association
Donna O'Connor and Maureen Reedy are running for state House seats in Ohio.
COLUMBUS, Ohio — Special-education teacher Donna O’Connor and 23 of her colleagues gathered at their union’s headquarters here in January for a first-of-its-kind campaign boot camp. Prompted by an intense battle over collective bargaining that has pitted unions against a Republican-controlled State Assembly, the Ohio Education Association started grooming its own candidates to take back control of state education policy.
O’Connor, who is currently running for a House seat in the Columbus suburbs, felt her own sense of urgency as she learned how to fundraise, write speeches and debate during the union training sessions. “I started connecting the dots about seven years ago [that] I couldn’t just shut my classroom door and the politicians would leave me alone,” she said.
Teachers have long run for office, often with encouragement and support from their unions. This year, however, educators in states with some of the biggest labor disputes and most controversial education policies have been campaigning in record numbers, according to state-level union officials. It’s one of the most direct ways that teachers and unions are showing their frustration over mounting attacks on tenure, the growth of nonunionized charter schools and efforts to evaluate teachers based on student test scores.
“You’re starting to see a lot of teachers say, ‘Enough is enough. I want to run for office,’ ” said Joe Williams, executive director of Democrats for Education Reform.
The group works to elect Democrats committed to making dramatic changes to education policy, including many that the unions oppose, such as eliminating tenure. Williams said he expects the trend of educators vying for office to continue. Official statistics aren’t kept on how many teachers are running, but anecdotal evidence from several states suggests the numbers are up.
The teachers union in Wisconsin, which was the center of a lengthy battle over collective bargaining last year, has six members competing for statewide office. In Tennessee, the first state to pass a law tying teacher evaluations to test scores, nine out of 11 teacher-candidates survived state legislature primaries to advance to the November elections. (Typically, two or three teachers in Tennessee run for any sort of office in a given year, according to the state’s teachers union). And in Minnesota, where mounting class sizes and debates over changing the seniority system have upset teachers, 35 educators are on the ballot. Members of the Minnesota teachers union, Education Minnesota, have estimated that that number is about a third higher than normal.
“Unfortunately for the past two years, the Legislature has ignored the real problems and focused on bashing teachers,” Education Minnesota president Tom Dooher said in a written statement. “We’re hopeful more people with classroom experience will be elected and re-order its priorities next year.”
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Ohio was thrust into the national spotlight last year when its legislature passed Senate Bill 5, which banned unions from collective bargaining. A ballot initiative that November repealed the law, but the memory — and the anger it inspired — has not faded.
Although many potential candidates who attended the OEA’s training sessions decided not to run this year (and one lost in a primary), 10 remain on the ballot for state office — an unprecedented number, according to the OEA. In the last six years, just three other OEA members have run. This year, an 11th educator, a former member of the Ohio Federation of Teachers (OFT) in his first year of retirement, is also running.
The Republicans have a stronghold in both houses of the Ohio State Assembly. In the House of Representatives, they are one member away from a super-majority, which would mean that any law passed as an “emergency measure” would take effect right away.
State congressional districts were redrawn in Ohio this year, in what supporters of the teachers union claim was gerrymandering meant to help Republican candidates. Still, the changes created new seats for some teachers to run and prompted others to challenge incumbents. Many teachers are now locked in tight races in districts that lean heavily red.
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O’Connor, the special-education teacher, lost her current representative, Democrat John Carney, to another district during the redistricting process. Faced with an incumbent who had voted against collective bargaining and for a budget that cut state education funding by more than 10 percent, O’Connor decided it was time for her to get directly involved. She described the bill that outlawed collective bargaining as the “icing on the cake” in motivating her to run.
Tom Schmida, an OFT retiree up for election to the House in the Akron suburbs, was also spurred to run by a host of issues. A Democrat, Schmida is concerned about the future of collective bargaining, charter school accountability and a provision in the approved budget bill that will tie teacher evaluations to test scores. “An overreaching agenda by the extreme elements of the Republican Party, especially in the State House, [goes] beyond Senate Bill 5,” he said.
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Schmida is in a close race against incumbent Republican Rep. Kristina Roegner, a staunch proponent of charters, vouchers and the elimination of collective-bargaining rights. Schmida’s grassroots campaign has knocked on about 7,500 doors and made 9,000 phone calls. Many of his volunteers are teachers and union members themselves, he said.
Both of the state’s teachers unions have endorsed all of the teacher-candidates. The OEA has also sent out mailings to members about its teacher-candidates, organized phone banks and helped produce a campaign video. “We’ve supported them through every means we possibly can,” said OEA president Patricia Frost-Brooks.
OEA declined to give specifics on the amount of money it has spent to help teacher-candidates get elected.
To Williams, these steps are a logical extension of unions’ long-time political involvement. “Teachers unions all over the country have been pretty successful at keeping the pipeline for potential candidates for office filled with good candidates,” he said. “We’re starting to see the unions take their message up a notch. It’s not just about good candidates … [but] getting teachers to be recruited.”
Yet Williams worries that too many teachers in office might derail the current education reform agenda. “As we move into an area where there’s lots of debates about teacher-quality issues and teacher-tenure issues, [the unions] are going to want people who will shut that debate down,” he said. He believes having more educators in office will be helpful only if they offer perspectives from the trenches without sidetracking the reform conversation.
Several Ohio teacher-candidates say they’re open to discussion and compromise. They add that their larger goals—like a better system of funding education—need not be divisive. It’s more about ensuring a teacher voice, they say.
“In 2011, that really showed us what happens when we don’t elect officials that are pro-workers, pro-public education and pro-teacher,” O’Connor said in her OEA-produced campaign video, referring to Senate Bill 5. “Electing pro-public education candidates is most important this time around. I think the teachers that are running, we can help protect and improve public education from the inside out.”
This story was produced by The Hechinger Report, a nonprofit, nonpartisan education-news outlet based at Teachers College, Columbia University.
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In a related story, the United Organization of Foxes union is campaigning to organize the security guards at the henhouse.
With the government currently infested with lawyers and businessmen, it would be a refreshing to have a new perspective brought in by educators.
This is almost as good as getting UNIONS into the thick of things in State's Constitutions.
And it will be ALL DOWNHILL from there.
Just what this country needs- NOT!!! More liberal, union freeloaders that want to control their and our kids destiny. Tenure is one of the worst things that ever happened in schools. Most of the teachers today need to be fired and at least start over with new ones. My kids were indoctrinated into the "tenured" teachers political and religious beliefs and when we complained, we were told they had tenure and nothing could be done. Homosexuality was promoted in their school by teachers and radical communist beliefs were pushed down their throats. Public schools just need to go away completely.
Steve2- I support this and am not liberal. I am a conservative, so please do not extend labels, it shows your arrogance and ignorance. Teachers across the country are bashed all the time and now, shortages are showing, plus only people who can't get a job are turning to that in places. As a parent, I want to embrace, support, and empower the teachers as they know more about teaching and education than anyone else. They are in the trenches, and I am sick of Monday night quarterbacks that are destroying education by trying to run it as privatized. Many of those schools are taking our tax dollars, hiring the cheapest, going out of business, and showing horrible scores. Indiana and Florida are prime examples. BTW- states without unions perform much more poorly than the states that have them: Mass. is a good example and all the southern states are at the bottom.
Steve2, you mean learning math, writing, reading is more important than diversity? Shame on you for thinking!!! You must not have been raised in a UNION school!!!
Did you know that in devastated NJ, non-union electricians were told they could not help? Unions are like communism!!!
Austck
Did you know that in devastated NJ, non-union electricians were told they could not help?
Source please!
Oh please, say it ain't so. It's just not right, it's just not American to support candidates who support your views.
Steve,
Seriously, no one's indoctrinating your kid with "homosexuality". He's either gay or he isn't. Teaching kids to not bully students to death isn't "indoctrinating". It's teaching them how to work with those different then them. Which, SHOCK, they will have to do in their lives.
Sorry to break the bad news. YOU probably encounter gay people everyday, as will your child. Better learn how to deal with it, since there's not a damn thing you can do about it.
Everyone Else,
That being said. I'm not a fan of the Teacher's Union. I'm not really a fan of any union. I think they've become drunk on their power. The concept of the union IS essential, but union reform is ALSO essential.
Allow education reform, real reform, to happen. That means getting RID of the bad teachers and changing how we do things. Obviously, we know how to do it. Look at the Kipp Schools, or the other uber successful charter schools. There's no reason our public schools can't be running even with them.
Louie Bee
Did you know that in devastated NJ, non-union electricians were told they could not help?
Apparently happened in Seaside NJ
Source WAFF-TV News Huntsville
Louie Bee...www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/local/non-union-utility-crews-from-alabama-turned-away-from-helping-nj-sandy-victims-176949061.html
Ok Sarah - please show me the study that has discovered the "gay" gene - you cannot because there is not one. Being gay is not innate - it is learned - to say that it is natural is a farce - it is abnormal to the biological intentions of the human race and it is normal only in the sense that the gay community is trying so desperatly to make it mainstream. That being said they are not to be hated but pitied - they are human afterall...but this is all off the point of the central theme of this article...it saddens me that teachers seem to be instructed to "keep the status quo" in lieu of improving the situation by the unions - as if they do not want the gravy train to end.
Non-unioned electrician would mean they aren't journeymen which means they are not certified. Electricity is tricky and dangerous. I wouldn't wan a non-certified electrician messing with stuff in the middle of a flood. Just my 2 cents.
While I do agree with your beginning comments, towards the end you lost me. For, you are comparing apples and oranges...Charter schools perform better, because they can get rid of low performing students, who are then absorbed back into the regular public school's population. Thus, the reg. public schools' scores are lower because they cannot pick and choose their students. Furthermore, when enrolling in a charter school, parents must sign a contract of responsibility. If they are not honoring said contract, the charter school can release the student. Just some food for thought...
@gorgse: Non-unioned electrician would mean they aren't journeymen which means they are not certified.
Um, no. There's nothing to prevent an electrician from working in a non-union shop, and there's nothing to make you join or stay in a union. My cousin has been a certified electrician in Bridgeport for 20 years and he's *never* been in a union.
BTW, the crew is question is from Alabama, a right to work state.
http://www.newjerseynewsroom.com/state/report-seaside-heights-turns-away-non-union-relief-help
I know at least a dozen of non-Local 3 electricians that can't work in certain buildings in Manhattan, even though they have 15-30 years of experience.
The low performing students can always run for a political office.
Gorges - Just because they are not union does not mean they did not learn the trade! Some may have started their own business. Nobody in a small business can sustain union wage. My father was a tool and die maker and he was totally non-union from Germany. He is retired and is still asked to do work because his union counterparts cannot perform to his standards. He comes from East Germany and was NEVER in a union because he said it was like living with the communists.
Happy,
The gay argument isn't relevant to this article. I'm sorry I responded to Steve to begin with.
BUT...
It must really stick in your craw that regardless of whether you believe it's a choice or not, there's still NOTHING you can do about it.
@sarah
I agree, the gay agenda has nothing to do with this article.
As for taunting someone and saying there is NOTHING he can do about it.................I wouldn't count your chickens before they hatch.
Hey Guys! It's me, the evil, selfish, corrupt, manipulative, greedy teacher who speads lies, speads my own agenda, tells them who to vote for, makes them drink the kool-aid, and teaches them nothing! I create my agenda somewhere between my second job, grading papers at home, and creating lesson plans. I really should be held accountable for how well my students perform. Especially the one's who are entitled, come from broken homes, are taught to disrespect authority, fatherless, and drag the rest of the students down.
The truth is, I am not in a union, and I don't have a strong opinion either way. I do know that I have classrooms packed with 35 kids. Legislation has dictated that the lowest kid is more important than the top 20 (the No Child Left Behind Law). It does not matter if they care or not. I am told what to teach because it is passed down from the state. I am told what to teach, how to teach it, and just have to deal with it. I watch the adminstration fudge test results, manipulate graduation rates, and keep students who are destructive and evil.
As a teacher, we are stuck in the middle. Our classrooms are dictated by legislation. We are completely powerless. Adminstration is concerned with the appearance that all is well. The students of this generation are destructive, disrespectful, and fatherless. We are pressured from parents and the public who have no idea that we cannot change or do anything about the educational system. I deal with 900 personalities a day. I regulate medication, manage behaviors, teach students who could care less about school, have meetings, plan, grade papers, talk with parents, attend events such as sports and recitals, all with average pay. Yes, average pay. I work a second job because my wife was laid off (from teaching). Yes, she was a good teacher. Her, and 30 others were laid off because of budget constraints (all while 30+ administrators make well over 100k per year at our district). All of this pressure from every angle makes it harder and harder to continue this profession.
Amen Brotha... Can I hear a 'Halleluah'?!?!?
We too have way-below-pay average teachers being laid off of their jobs, while I found out the SuperIntendent and Principle, and a few other 'upper-staff' members are making SIX FIGURES.
All the while, a Superintendent in L.A., California is managing something like 15 schools and earning a similar wage, our little tiny itty bitty school, with a graduation class of about 15 students, our Superintendant is making a very very similar wage while only managing an Elementary School, and a High School, and a pathetic excuse for an online Academic school.
I say there should be a law saying that before upper-management at schools are allowed to lay off any teachers, they are required first to take a 50% pay cut themselves. Which, btw, would STILL have them earning more than almost all our teachers.
I don't beleive the aims of the teachers union and the best interests of the public are one and the same.
I could never vote for someone that is pro union.
Screw your collective bargaining. I'll bargain for my own salary, thank you. I don't want the pay cut that would come with having my pay set by the skills knowledge and work ethic of the average lazy useless union worker.
You know the different between scientist, teacher compared to businessmen and lawyer? The scientist and teacher chose their career because they either care about others or want to pursue their curiosity in life. The lawyer and businessmen chose their career for benefits, money and being a good liar.
See, the starting objectives are different, so it is a fresh air to have more scientist and teacher in charge. At least scientist can stay on top of science driven society and not to tell others that "I don't believe in science" or "Science is from hell"....
Ohio ranks near the middle in national rankings of High
School students. 46th for math and 28th for Science. Not great numbers to
support the ‘excellence’ of education as related to union teachers.
www.regents.ohio.gov/perfrpt/special_reports/Educational_and_Economic_Rank_OH_vs_US.pdf
Wisconsin ranks near the 13th percent on a recent
ACT test score with a 67 percent participation rate.
“In general, Di Carlo notes that, according to the available evidence, there may be some
overall benefit from unions on student test scores, but due to all the complex
factors involved, there is little basis for drawing strong causal conclusions.
He also pointed out that unions confer other benefits, such as improved
communication between teachers and administrators.”
www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2011/feb/23/state-democratic-party-wisconsin/labor-union-supporters-say-wisconsin-test-scores-v/
Labor unions are not a great advantage in education no matter how you slice it...unless you are an under performing teacher.
Next.
GI Joe,
Is that some sort of threat??? What exactly CAN you do? Force them back into the closet??? Well how would you go about doing that? Imprison them? Outlaw homosexuality? Beat them? Kill them? Deny them equal rights? Try to change them through psychologically damaging faux therapy? Shame them?
That's already all been tried. You haven't been very successful and you get less so every year.
Now do you have anything to add about teachers, or do you just like playing tough guy on the internet?
Happy 42XXX:
You wrote:
Just for the heck of it, can you recall the day you learned to be heterosexual?
@sarah
Its kind of sad that you would construe anything resembling a physical threat out of what I posted. In reference to that particular subject matter, I was referring to ballot initiatives and referendums. Why does fear of violence color your thought process so much? Did someone hurt you? There is no reason you should live your life in fear.
Most conservatives are proficient with weapons. If they didn't want you around, you'd be long gone. I personally prefer dialog over violence, and I have yet to play "internet tough guy".
I never had you pegged as one who would attempt to suppress free speech by belittling someone else's posts just for the sake of doing it.
In regards to your question about adding something useful to the conversation about teachers, well, I've added plenty. I'm sure you won't find any of it "useful" seeings how your mind is quite closed to the concept of conservatism, but it was added nonetheless.
GI Joe,
Ooooh, so superior. And although your pop-psychology post was entertaining, the premise remains the same.
So, through ballot initiatives and referendums, you'll force homosexuals (a complete group of people who have never harmed you) back into the closet. I believe I mentioned that in my first post to you, where I said "deny them equal rights" and "outlaw homosexuality".
That's just as threatening and harmful as any form of physical violence.
"Oh I'm not going to beat you to a bloody pulp, I'm just going to force you to deny who you are, even though it doesn't hurt me in the slightest, by keeping you as second class citizens and maintaining a status quo that's at best ambiguous to your suffering, and at worst rejoices in it. Because, after all, I find you yucky."
And repressing free speech? Wow, I haven't heard such an overly dramatic response since I told my friends during my undergrad days that I wouldn't' be joining a sorority. Can I stop you from posting??? NOPE. Just like you can't control gay people. I wouldn't want to even if I could, because unlike you, my self worth is NOT dependent upon denying other's rights.
Actually, to anyone with a half a brain, that sounds like another veiled threat. You aren't even tough enough to openly threaten over the internet. It's online AND it's passive aggressive. Ouch.
I have no problem with conservatives. I've had many intelligent and civil conversations with some amazingly kind conservatives. In fact, my position on this article is IN LINE with most conservatives.
What I have a problem with, is people who oppress my fellow citizens.
Maybe that's because it isn't a threat? I've certainly never been accused of not being able to effectively communicate my feelings about a particular subject matter. In the spirit of honesty Sarah, I'll admit, I'm not even a real conservative. I don't like our country the way it is, I'm a hard core regressive.
I'm all for ALL perversion going back in the closet. Yeah, I know, perversion has been around a lot longer than I have, but that doesn't mean it can't be put back in its place. Hetero, or homo makes no difference. People's sex lives belong in their home, not out in the public sphere. Yes Sarah, I said that. Two people of the hetero persuasion humping each other in public, disgusts me just as much as two homos demonstrating the same behavior.
You don't have to try so hard to "bait" me into saying this. I'll scream it at the top of my lungs, proudly.
I'm against gay marriage. I'm against civil unions. I'm against extending any kind of taxpayer funded benefits to someone just because they're gay. I will NEVER vote in favor of any law that endorses homosexuality. Call me bigoted, call me whatever, but I have a vote, and I'll use it the way I want to. In all but the most liberal states where the subject matter has been put to the test, my like minded American brothers and sisters have been in the majority on this issue.
Normally, I'd ignore a liberal who claims in one post that a particular discussion needs to be had elsewhere,(a thinly veiled attempt at speech suppression), then continues to hammer the off topic subject matter relentlessly, but in this case you've left me no choice.
GI Joe,
Hey buddy, YOU engaged ME. All I'm doing is responding to what other's have said. It does belong on a different vine, and I'd gladly have this conversation there. And I have, many times. That's not suppression, that's consideration for the people who wish to discuss THIS topic.
If I'm hammering, well, you sure are pounding yourself.
Yup, you sure can and that is sure your right. But remember, every gay person and every supporter of gay rights gets that same say. It's a shame that what you declare as your right, you would deny the same to your fellow countrymen, especially when they've never done a damn thing to you.
Your "humping" analogies are ridiculous. No one here is advocating for getting rid of public decency laws. They want nothing more then to live the same as straight people.
I'll give you props for having the balls to admit your bigotry, but the point remains. There's nothing you can do to stem the tide of equal rights. Those who deny freedom, have lost EVERY time.
@sarah
If the day ever comes that the majority of voters decide that gay people should be subsidized with tax money, I'll accept their verdict. As of yet, that day hasn't come.
So you kicked off a 4 post blog about the wonders of gay marriage simply because I agreed with you on #1.18?
You my dear have way too much free time on your hands.
GI,
Did you read the whole vine? I briefly responded to Steve's comments about "gay indoctrination" and then came the @!$%# storm from Happy (to which I responded) and you (to which I responded).
If you people don't want me to respond, why address me? Seriously, you engage me about this, then complain when I engage back? You address me continuously, and then complain when I answer back?
And when have I mentioned marriage? Can you quote that please?
As far as time on my hands... Well, not only did you originally engage me, but you seem to be posting just as much. How hypocritical would it be for me to scorn you, for responding when I address you? Hmmm????
Now Sarah, you outpost me on the vine 10-1. Your allegations of hypocrisy are laughable at best. I addressed you simply to agree with you, and you went completely off the deep end over some perceived "threat". So much for my attempt to "reach across the aisle".
GI Joe,
Oh you mean your agreement immediately followed by threat to deny people I care about their God given rights?
Damn me for reading your whole post.
And really, what's more pathetic, posting a lot or counting how many times a stranger posts?
Please define "God given rights". Surely you don't mean the Christian God. Well, for that matter the Muslim God, or the Jewish God either. I mean these faiths are the epitome of the misogyny you claim to despise so much.
If you mean the right to force a group of people to accept something they see as perversion, I don't see that as a "God given right". I mean if homosexuals were being openly persecuted, starved, beaten, murdered, yeah, I'd be right there beside you with your fight. But lets face it, these aren't the issues your referring to. Call this what it is. Gay people want to get married to have increased access to taxpayer cash. I would hardly call access to taxpayer money a "God given right". I mean seriously, that whole thought process is liberalism at its worst.
And you called ME overly dramatic?
I don't deign to tell people how to define God. God is to me what God is to me, and I could care less what it is to you or anyone else, as long as you don't use that God to hurt others.
Who's forcing you to accept anything. Have I ever said you have to like gays? Be a friend to them? Attend a gay marriage? Allow them in your church? You can continue to hate, slander them, insult them, until the day you die. There's a difference between being forced to accept something and simply not getting your way.
If you have no good reason to persecute someone and keep them as second class citizens, you don't get to. You're complaining about not getting your way, no about being forced to accept something.
Call me when the feds knock on you door and make you hug a gay dude. I'll defend you too.
No, but equal protection is.
Read this...
And that's just a few...
http://www.civilrights.org/publications/hatecrimes/lgbt.html
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/06/02/anti-gay-hate-crimes-murders-national-coalition-of-anti-violence-programs_n_1564885.html
http://www.wnyc.org/blogs/wnyc-news-blog/2011/jul/17/state-data-shows-anti-gay-hates-crimes-rise/
http://www.washingtonblade.com/2012/03/14/3-hospitalized-after-spate-of-anti-lgbt-violence/
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/09/nyregion/09bias.html?pagewanted=all
Even if this were true, SO DO STRAIGHT PEOPLE. Why do straight people get to have a right to "tax payer cash" and not gay people? They pay taxes too.
{Even if this were true, SO DO STRAIGHT PEOPLE. Why do straight people get to have a right to "tax payer cash" and not gay people? They pay taxes too.}
Hey, NOW you're on to something!!!!! Introduce legislation that forces ANYONE to have to actually qualify to get a marriage license, and I'm right there with you. Come up with a sort of eugenics program where people need a permit to breed, or craft legislation that cuts the taxpayer flow of cash off so that there's nothing to argue over, and I'm right there with you. If I'm not being asked to endorse or finance a persons lifestyle, I really don't care what they do.
As to all those links you posted, you don't need to convince me that hate crimes occur. They occur against people of all races, all genders, and all sexual orientations, and they are deplorable. However, I don't have the ability to stem the tide, and neither do you. I've never been given the opportunity to vote on that issue, probably because hate crimes, and all crimes of violence that I'm aware of, are already illegal. If I saw the issue on a ballot, I'd certainly vote in support of keeping crimes of violence against the law, just like I'd vote to keep gay marriage illegal.
GI Joe,
You lost me at Eugenics. Unfortunately, that's not how it works (and I seriously hope there was more then a little sarcasm there). Bottom line, gay people finance you (if you're married), until that stops it's absolutely unjust, to deny other citizens those same benefits.
Call me naive, but if we all believed we COULD stem the tide. The tide would be stemmed. And you CAN do something. Go reread your posts, and then think about the fact that gay people are HUMAN BEINGS, and that 99.99999% have never harmed you in any way.
Sarah, your thought process is prejudiced. I bear no animosity towards homosexuals. As you said "slander, hate, etc.," I bear no feelings like that toward homosexuals at all. 99.99999%? Its 100%. I've never had a homosexual bother me in any way, shape, or form. Likewise, I've never persecuted a homosexual for being a homosexual. Hell, if it were up to you, you'd have my guns taken away so I couldn't even defend them if I tried.
I'd be very interested in knowing how gay people finance my marriage. I don't get extra cash for being married, I make too much to qualify for EITC, and the family costs WAY more than the deduction I receive from the IRS.
Under different circumstances, I'd be willing to overlook the battle for taxpayer cash,(thats what it is), but given things are the way they are, I'd vote to stop the taxpayer subsidy to ALL married people, before I'd vote in favor of gay tax subsidies.
Gay people are completely free to go find a gay preacher and get married just like everyone else. In most states they are simply prohibited from getting or filing a license, and prohibited from receiving a taxpayer subsidy. So in reality, this IS all about a cash grab, and being the regressive that I am, I'm against any and all taxpayer funded cash grabs.
I don't see how this translates into a human rights issue, or a loss of life or limb issue, and certainly not a "God given rights" issue.
GI Joe,
Your saying that is contradictory to your saying this...
And please quote where I've ever said we should take away anyone's guns.
There are 1,000+ tax payer advantages that come with marriage. YOU said that the reason gay people want to get married has to do with these benefits and that they don't have a right to tax payer advantages. If that wasn't true, then there goes your "main" point for denying them marriage equality.
And yes, they can find a gay preacher to marry them, but they don't get those benefits, and THAT'S the equal protection part.
So, you'd rather overhaul our entire marriage system, then allow gay marriage which has ZERO effect on you? You'd rather end benefits to ALL citizens, then allow benefits to ALL citizens? For no reason?
See post #3.17 to get the whole legal argument for it.
Unions are horrible for this country! They are a thing of the past. Just look at New Jersey, when there is a Union, unless you Join the Union you CAN NOT Work in your chosen field in the state of New Jersey.
Why should a Union be aloud to chose which worker will be aloud to work and how many? Why should Unions chose how much a public employ must gets paid. (Public Unions in Wisconsin) Why not the common Citizens?
Why should Union Toll plaza workers be paid more than a college educated School teachers?
Unions are a cancer on our Country and have been for a long, long time. One day soon they will no longer exist, just like slavery that was abolished many years ago.
The job of the Unions are to back employees who are unwilling to follow the rules on the job and are constantly complaining about the wages the're receiving, always wanting more.
They consider themselves as better than all others and are always wanting more pay for less work.
We don't need this in America. Not now or never.
Gosh Sarah, you are acting so immature... Why don't you two take your ravings elsewhere...
And yes, I specifically mentioned you because you started it as you've started it on other forums as well. Your whining over your self-righteous egocentrically liberal ideology is tiresome. Not everyone thinks like you, live with it.
I don't care if they think like me. Can you quote where I ever said you had to.
But I did notice, instead of engaging me on anything in regards to what's been posted, be it the teachers union or gay rights, on an intellectual level, you skip right to the testiness.
Why is that?
And really, what's more immature? Calling a stranger, WHO'S NEVER EVEN ADDRESSED YOU LET ALONE WRONGED YOU, immature, or responding when addressed?
Is that it, did you just want some of my attention????
Classic - if you can't fight them, join them.
Live another day to fight from the inside...
That is what folks predict will happen in the collapse of the United States of America.....can't fight them from the outside.....so go inside.
Wait a minute.....Mr. Obama is at the "top of the food chain" and he says he can't make things happen in D.C.
austck
Source please!
Louie Bee
They are free to run for office but if it's only for gains in regards to teachers then I say don't vote for them.When you represent people in your state you are supposed to represent all people including the taxpayers who are sick of every tax initiative stating how the money will go to the schools.
Comeonppl,
How is it teachers (who disagree) are caught in the middle? Simply pointing fingers at legislators, unions, bad parenting, etc., doesn't justify a teacher/educator "rolling along with it." I've heard teachers say the same thing..."it's not my fault, I have to follow curriculum and policy." I disagree, it is the teachers fault. A teacher who knows that actual education is not a priority, is just as guilty by remaining in the field and "going with the flow." Everyone has a choice. Teachers included. That pension, tenure, and retirement are more important than the so called "passion for teaching." Let's call a spade, a spade here. Espousing a "passion for teaching", and bantering a "personal commitment to being the best" is rather hollow when one continues supporting a broken system. Many educators learn early in their career that the system isn't as "noble" as they thought. Just as many, stay and contribute to the "dumbing down" because it's a paycheck. It's a choice. Accepting responsibility for ones choices is much harder than just blaming something else. Choice.
Why not, Teachers are already spreading their political influence into the classroom using their young and impressionable students as bait. Too bad parents are now tasked with detoxing the classroom politics out of their children's minds with a dose of reality that life does not evolve around using taxpayers as open checkbooks for union rule.
Well that's funny. Maybe if parents would actually do their job instead of letting everything and everyone else raise their children while buying them everything they ever asked for we wouldn't have this problem.
It's not the teachers fault if your kid is a spoiled brat that thinks the world should be his on a platter, it's your fault and the fault of all the other cruddy parent I've ever seen. You want your children to have a firm grasp on life; stop treating them like children when they're teenagers.
In my 24 years of teaching, I found VERY FEW students who had even a basic understanding of U.S. history or its political system, let alone the platforms of current politicians.
Even though I taught remedial reading and English, I often taught mini-lessons on history to help my students understand and value the importance of being an educated voter.
Yes, it was possible to educate them without influencing them toward one political party or the other, especially since I'm an Independent.
What classroom have you been in?
Intelligent & Independent....."In my 24 years of teaching, I found VERY FEW students who had even a basic understanding of U.S. history or its political system, let alone the platforms of current politicians."
As a teacher, you should understand WHY students are pathetic in U.S. history and it's political system. Might even want to add English and Math to the mix.
Why as a teacher would you even admit the failings of the "tenured" teachers? Children today are not taught the real history of our country, just some liberal distorted untruth that has "evolved" out of the influx of non-patriotic liberal, socialist teachers that have infiltrated our schools.
Teachers do not determine their curriculum. Rather, there are state standards and district focus standards that dictate what is taught. Therefore, your statement is not founded in truth, and is simply your misguided opinion of education.
Your right, I can't believe how many times my daughter has come home and told me how the teachers are talking to their class about who to vote for. When I see a teacher running for an office ( or lawyer ) I auto matically don't vote for them.
steve2
You've been reading too many Texas history books. Get involved with teaching your children true history and not that of the Texas textbook commission that leaves out Thomas Jefferson and puts Phyllis Shafley into the curriculum. You might also want to spend some time with them regarding science and mathematics. That is if you are qualified.
Quit watching Fox and do some parenting!
Batini,
The teacher is telling your kid who to vote for? I thought kids couldn't vote?
I have been invloved in my kids education. That is why they are decent adults and not the moronic liberals that their teachers wanted them to be.
Sarah -And yes, 18 yr old high school seniors are old enough to vote.
Louis Bee - I see your indoctrination worked well.
Rightwing,
Since you're so intent on evidence, then why don't you provide some credible evidence, NOT just personal stories, to support this belief that teachers are "indoctrinating our children with the homosexual agenda."
And my diatribe on gays will continue until they equal rights and are treated as human beings.
In regards to the rest... Teachers follow state sanctioned curriculum. If they promote views or discussions on topics that don't occur in your home, well that's called WELL ROUNDED. Unless your sole intent is to form your children into little versions of you, and not allow them to think for themselves or be exposed to anything you don't agree with, you should promote their learning about different viewpoints. After all, no one is going to hold a gun to their heads and they DO have brains of their own, come their first voting day.
Other then that, home school them.
My daughter got so sick of the indoctination of the gay agenda we took it to the principle, counsleors and schoolboard. We were told that gays have rights and that the teacher was well within her right to push the lesbian agenda. My daughter graduated 1-1/2 years early with honors and went to a Christian college.
Steve,
Bet that made you @!$%# your pants, huh?
Do this for me, can you please provide a copy of this "lesbian agenda" or the "gay agenda"???
I'm just curious, do they elect delegates every year to meet somewhere and think up ways to bring about the apocalpyse? Or is it more secretive and underground, like the Masons or the Skulls?
And why don't gay people ever get copies? Shouldn't they be at the top of the mailing list? All the gay people I know have never once seen a copy of any agenda.
Your paranoia and hatred is old and tired. Great, send your kids to Christian college. I just hope they actually teach CHRISTIAN values, as opposed to yours.
Why the class of public school indoctrination. What other way is there to get a good liberal education taught by the very liberals themselves?
Poor Sara, You are somewhat perplexed aren't you and do not seem to have the foggiest idea of where people are coming from. Gay's already have equal rights just as all of us do. It is the ole bigot theory that anyone opposed to the LGBT group is full of hate. Can you believe it that for many it comes down to a simple moral issue and although we are aware there will always be gay's, in fact my brother is. The simple fact that marriage has always been a union between a man and a woman and there is a reason for that which seems to have some of you confused. Anatomically it works, makes sense, and dare I say for most of us natural. Through having a brother that is gay and dealing with them through my profession I know for a fact that they have sex with both genders, father children and take no responsibility. No one really knows why they become that way it is not a mental illness but in my opinion a emotional illness or unbalance due to environmental and situational experiences. I know that my brother was abuse by two male adults as a child, would it not be easy to assume that had a profound affect. Some have sought counseling and believe or not beat the thing. Gay's themselves should easily identify that their course is not the norm. Moreover, we do not want this presented to our children as some alternate life style and I would bet that young people that have little life experience and are sympathetic, may want to support them so much they become one. They do not belong in our institution of marriage, this definately does not belong in our schools, they should not be perceived as normal and if they can make a choice to get help they can just as easily make a choice to not. I will teach my children that it is a perverse life, and it is anything but normal. Don't hate them don't hurt them but by all means keep them out of what I consider the mainstream of society. What they want to do to each other I could care less. But that is where it should stay.
P,
No it doesn't. Morals are personal and individual. There are many things widely considered immoral that AREN'T illegal. Your morals are different from mine, who are either of us to declare to the other what is "moral"?
Why do you all keep bringing up marriage? This is about education, but since you asked...
First, there are certain "protected classes" laid out in the 14th Amendment and the Civil Rights Act. Two of them are race and gender. In the Supreme Court case Loving v Virginia, SCOTUS ruled that,
Now this case was based on race, BUT to support gay marriage, all you have to do is change race to GENDER, another protected class. PLUS, the 14th Amendment has a little something called the "Privileges and Immunities" clause. Which means, you can't deny the citizens, their privileges, or immunities, based on those classes. In this case, that'd be gender.
So, since marriage is a legal (that means law) contract, that comes with PRIVILEGES, you can't deny citizens, without a damn good, already been shown to exist, reason, based on gender, among other things. So, if the state can't prove a reason, to deny privileges to people based on gender, they can't make that particular law.Now, put it together. If two gay people want to enter a contract, and the state tells them they can't, because of the gender of one of the parties, THAT'S A BIG NO NO.
Also, the logic that gay people are free to marry, just as you are, i.e they're free to marry one of the opposite sex, is the EXACT same defense that Virginia used in their defense, again just turn gender to race.
The court ruled, AGAINST that logic.
Second, you have an implied right to privacy, mostly through the 9th and 4th Amendments. In a the SCOTUS case Lawrence v Texas, the court said this...
Third, AGAIN, marriage is a civil contract, that comes with over 1,000 benefits granted by the state. Most of these benefits deal with property, insurance, tax and probate law. Civil unions, do NOT grant equivalent benefits. In order to enter a legal contract, the parties have to have LEGAL CAPACITY FOR INFORMED CONSENT.
Furthermore, marriages are NOT religious, that's Holy Matrimony, which a church can NEVER be forced to perform against its dogma, due to protections in the 1st Amendment. This is why people can, and do, get married any day without ever stepping foot in a church.
Also, marriage has NOTHING to do with procreation. After all, we let people have kids OUTSIDE of marriage, and NOT have kids while married.
Fourth, there are very few limited reasons for the government to discriminate in law, against one of these protected classes, and in order to do so, the government has to pass the test of strict scrutiny, which is that compelling state interest mentioned in Lawrence v Texas.
So....
The real question, those making the case for continuing the gender based discrimination of DOMA is, what is that compelling state interest? And before we start talking about marrying appliances, nephews, sheep, or dead people, ask yourselves this...
Since the only difference between a gay marriage and a straight marriage, is the gender of a single party, what is inherent to that single party's gender which would lead to bestiality, incest, polygamy, pedophilia, or marrying inanimate objects? Remember, you're ONLY changing ONE person's GENDER, so logically, it must be something within that one person's gender, which would lead you to believe gay marriage would open the door to any of those things, so... WHAT IS IT? Why would gay marriage lead to the repeal of the laws we have on the books, banning all those things?
Or, in easier terms...
Why doesn't STRAIGHT marriage lead to any of that?
Thanks Sara for turning my comment from Education into your own personal Legal briefing of why Gay marriages should be considered non-secular because the courts say so. More legal obfuscation that is only designed to confuse people as to why a Man and a Woman got married in the first place, and that was for religious reasons so that a family with children could prosper: to reproduce to support the next generation. Now marriage has become a legal issue for all the wrong reasons.
Spo,
Don't thank me, thank P. Cart-Whatever. He brought it up.
I noticed all you did was make some assertions about what YOU think marriage should be. But why does what YOU think have any legal standing in our country.
You can't to make the case against gay marriage. A case that will actually hold water? Answer my questions in post #3.17.
And it's not just the "court's say so", it's also the Consitution, which you as an American citizen benefit from and adhere to.
And you're still confusing Holy Matrimony and marriage. People were trading women for property LONG before your Bible, or even you Christ was around.
How dare we follow the law in this country, as opposed to your religion, right?
I made the statement that it is a moral issue and it certainly is for some and I was brief on the anatomical part not getting into the various details that would demonstrate by very nature the act is wrong and to use a term gay people hate. gay bowl syndrome. The vagina is the only orifice made for penetration and is equipped with various microbes that fend off bacteria the anus is not so equipped and not only disease but injury occurs from this type of act. Obviously you have never been in the medical profession. Since gay's are not exclusively gay they spread their disease to the heterosexual people.
Obviously still confused, and I am sure had our for fathers even had an idea that there were some that would attempt to perverse the constitution they would have defined it themselves. I do not see that under the constitution as written, that they have a right to be in a so called marriage. If people are attempting to compare gays with the plight of the African American it is an insult to them and there is no comparison between race and just some perverted sexual act that these people want to preform.
It is not that people don't recognize that gay's exist and we are trying to hurt them or take their jobs away, recently it is they that have invaded our territory, and we don't want them here we are tired of their lame justification's like many animals do it, and love is love and it is not a choice, and most of all proclaiming it is normal behavior when it is not, and anatomically proves it to be incorrect.
True it will open the door for all others under the false pretence that it is two consenting adults.The polygamist have already initiated a suit, and they will flying it under that flag and that is just wrong.
There are some things that are just wrong like polygamy. gay is just wrong and the residual effect that it will have on children and those of us that have the distinction to discern between things that are just wrong will be far reaching. People have traded truth for a lie and I will not and there are many like me that won't
I don't know where you draw your conclusions from. It is a perversion of truth and that is obvious. Maybe you are gay or have a friend that is and are sympathetic because of it but nit is wrong, anatomically, ethically, morally. They are the ones trying to change the world in their favor and invading into our lives and we have simply said no, and that from them brings out their anger and they come at anyone who states that is is wrong. Unfortunately we did not realize that this was so close other wise we would have dug in much sooner. I guarantee that we will be more prepared in the future.
I can get much more detailed but it would take forever. You are wrong.
You'd get a better response from a tree stump. Arguing with someone over this issue is non productive. You are not going to convince them to be objective or tolerant of any position other than theirs. It is not within their capability to accept that the majority of people are not going to accept them. It doesn't matter how many laws are enacted, lawsuits filed, demonstrations, etc., etc. Mainstream society doesn't want the lifestyle flaunted in their face. A better approach would be keep it to yourself and no one will care. It's about attention. "Look at me, because I want to be noticed."
Come and take it,
By flaunting it you mean, living like straight people? Not being forced to deny who they are? Not allowing people to intimidate them?
Have you scientifically polled every gay person in the world?
P,
I'm wrong??? Well I guess it's settled, you've spoken. I also noticed that you didn't answer a SINGLE one of those questions.
If you're a law abiding American, I'm assuming you would want to follow our laws. In order to support your position and follow the law, you need to answer those questions.
You also didn't back up ANYTHING you said. You do realize your OPINION has NO standing, right?
Sarah, enough with hijacking my comment. Why don't you take your cause to creating a NEW seed on Newsvine. But that would be asking too much because apparently everyone needs to be overly sympathetic to the specials needs of the LGBT community. If only those needs were necessary, and not just a choice of lifestyle that now the rest of us are inundated with everyday. Go away, and please stay away from my comment, you are not welcome here.
This will be like telling a kid he can't pet the kitty. Just watch what Sarah will do next.
I don't know, post again?
Doesn't it suck, that just like forcing gay people back into the closet, you ALSO don't get to control what happens on Newsvine?
And shocker, you don't want to hear what I have to say. Possibly because you have no logical response to it. I take that back. That's not a possibility, that's just the truth. You DON'T have a logical response.
Otherwise why not the vitriolic hatred for all the OTHER people who brought it up, whom I am simply RESPONDING to? Or, why not just answer the questions and shut me up.
And what special needs for LGBT have I ever advocated for? Oh yes, them being treated the same as you. How dare I!!!!???? They're not your equal, right?
If only that even mattered because GENDER would STILL be a protected class, PRIVACY would STILL be an implied civil right and YOU would STILL have to answer those questions to have a case for banning gay marriage.
Sarah,
Here Kitty, Kitty, Kitty!!!!! Maybe you should follow the latest with France and the status of their proposed gay marriage law, and how it is dividing the country. It might not be too late for EUROPE afterall. Same is happening here in the US where those that have the most rights to preserving traditional marriage are fighting back.
http://news.msn.com/world/proposed-gay-marriage-law-divides-france
Spo,
Oh I just posted there. But thanks for the link. I notice you keep engaging with me, though. Why is that, if you dislike me so much?
LOL @ denver bill 2 and spod de o de! Not friends of the democratic process, I see, except when you think it supports your conservative ideas and ignorance. Products of teaching to the test; no critical thinking skills what so ever.
Doc, I am sorry but UNIONS are not part of the Legal Process they are nothing more then Legalized Mafia..... There was a time when Unions where needed. Those days have been gone for a long time so now UNIONS are around simply to SCAM of out of our hard earned assets.....
Common Man hit it just right, it is time to elect people who really care about us and not there own special interests.....
Unions were needed at times when corporations were gaining unchecked power over the workplace at the expense of the workers. The money was moving to the top and not flowing back down to the working class. Business was gaining undue power over politicians and in fact it was difficult to separate the government from the big money influence. If that sounds like the teens and 20's I was actually refering to the present.
cauly flower... you're not serious, are you? Have you heard of OSHA, SOX, etc? There are too many gov't organizations that are forcing companies to adhere to controls. Wow, you're dumb!!! Don't think much?
austck
Since when is OSHA bad? If it weren't for regulations corporations would revert back to the good old days where worker safety was compromised for profits.
Louie Bee... are you dumb? 1. I didn't say that OSAH was bad. 2. I am stating there are many agency... govt agencies that are keeping corporations in check (see cauly flowers' comment). Egad... saudoof, na?
Hey Louie Bee ... here's some more for you... doofheit wird bestraft!!! Sind Sie als Kind mit 'ne Klammerbeutel gepudert worden? Aaah, the product of non-union ed!!!
Austck. And you Tpublicans would like to get rid of all of those agencies wouldn't you? You know deregulate and let free enterprise run itself. Did you wake up on the wrong side of the bed this a.m. or are you always an annoying little antagonist?
austck.
If dumbness is punished, sie werden für eine Weile leiden.
Cauly flower... nope, I just am a realist! Oh and my parents owned a small manufacturing company. Oh, and my father defected a communist country. Oh, and I lived in Europe for 2 years... Sie sind auch so saudoof, na?
Louie Bee... nice... aber Sie sind viel doofer als icke... muss leider wieder zurueck auf der Arbeit... war echt spass. Tchau!!!
@Louie Bee & @austch: Note that it's actually against the rules on the Vine to post in another language without an accurate translation. (Just a word to the wise, I've been dinged on this in the past!)
"Teachers' unions in Ohio try to get educators elected to state offices"
Wow talk about electing more self serving, dysfunctional people to public office. We need to stop electing people to represent the government and start electing people who will represent the rest of us.
...does that mean you'll run for office?
I'll vote for a teacher concerned about the education of our children over a lawyer looking to get rich any day of the week and twice on Sunday.
They don't want to get elected to actually protect the rights of kids to learn the truth, they just to protect their jobs and teach their socialist agendas. Let them get a job in the real world where the only job protection you have is to have to actually perform well.
jrae-1215199!!!!! You hit it right on target. We need well informed, educated people who are not using greed as their primary concern. Im sick of the ignorance of some poluting the waters. The people that let issues of irrelevance sway their vote, are the same ones that believe our president has some secret muslim agenda to destroy this country. Anyway, education is what separtates us from the primates, so why not have educators steering us in the right direction, instead of selfishness leading us to our demise.
Jason,
I like your post, but power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely. Educators are human beings as well, with all the same propensity for greed and corruption. Before I would start electing them to run the country, I'd want them to show they can reform their OWN corrupt or negligent practices by reforming their union.
Not killing it, but REFORMING it. No more tenure, or first in last out, merit based pay raises, sanctions against nepotism, and a more effficient performance review system, would be a start
After 18 years of classrooms the last thing I want to see in the REAL world is another school teacher telling me what my limitations and potential are. They have done a good/bad enough job of screwing up our kids do we really want them in government too. We need to get that professor out of the White House too.
This is exactly the reason why all Unions should be abolished. Unions will now try and alter the course of government to look out for their own interests. Pass laws and raise taxes so their members will benefit. Thats right become part of the next socialist party and join a union. They will tell you who can vote for and you cant. You are forced to join a Union and have no say in that. Educators or not anyone who thinks this is a good idea is an idiot!!!!
desertdude...
Wasn't it Romney who advised CEOs to warn their employees that they would be fired if Obama was elected.
Louie Bee... try smart!!!
austck.
So you are saying Romney was being smart in doing that?
Actually it was government agencies telling their employees that if OBummer didnt get elected they would lose their jobs.
I'm not a teacher, don't belong to any union, am not an Ohio resident, NOTWITHSTANDING..........I'd damn well vote for you if I could!!!! Wish you Luck defeating part of the radical GOP governmental element!
If they limit their pursuits to improving education, that would be great. But, as a teacher, union leaders are in lock step with the Democratic party on every issue. The rank and file is often not, but they are just an arm of the democratic party. Yes, I have been to the NEA Washington DC offices to see this upclose. Some tallented people though. Just not representative of all membership.
Just great, they are more than qualified they get paid for working half the year and their results are poor at best.
Half of the year? Are you kidding me? If you call mid August to mid June half of a year, I guess. Teachers do not start the day school starts and end the day school ends! These teachers work before and after the school day. These teachers use their own money to provide for these students what the states and parents should be! To my knowledge teachers can take pay just for the months they are working or have the option to spread it out over twelve months. I guess if you think they have it so great, why don't you get your bachelors and masters degree and try your hand at being responsible for 30 kids at a time?
I am not a teacher, but I just do not understand the hatred for teachers! If you don't like it, get involved with your schools and try to make a difference. Maybe, just maybe, you will learn about how difficult teaching can be.
Dpc...Numbers
Nine months = 1/2 a year?
Maybe you should take a remedial course in math.
I am averaging over 60 hours a week so far this year, teaching demands a great deal of my time. The summers are often devoted to taking additional courses in my subject matter.
Steve, welcome to the rest of America.....people in the private sector work 50, 60, 70 hrs per week. Their jobs demand a gret deal of their time...they typically don't get summers off to take add'l courses...if they wish to pursue advanced degrees, it's on weeknights and weekends...time away from their families. I don't hate teachers, I'm not bashing teachers, but I don't feel sympathy for them either. When they whine about how much "time" they have to commit to their jobs, they are no different than any other worker. Most successful people in the private sector devote much more time to their jobs than do teachers.
I am a teacher. I work on a reservation and have to work 8 hours each day. I also have to work 8 days until 7:00 per year. I don't get pay extra. You need to try to teach a class for one week to see what the teachers have to deal with. Some schools don't even have enough desk or books for their students. Teachers use their own money to help the students learn. We even after to put up with students that don't care about learning. We are expected to teach every student to pass a test once a year.
@CNMexico: I am an IT worker. I work a minimum of 44 hours per week and I have to work about an additional 120 hours on weekends and after work every year. I am salaried and don't get paid extra.
You need to try to make your deliverables to see what IT professionals have to deal with. Some databases don't even have enough disk or memory for their calculations. I use my own money to help in my job by learning more and being more efficient. We even after to put up with clients that don't care about problems. We are expected to be up 24 hours a day, 7 days a week.
Oh, and make a profit.
Mark..
Maybe you should try unionizing your fellow workers. I would think you would have some sympathy for teachers who are paid a lot less than you and use their own funds to make up for what the school board doesn 't provide.
@Louie Bee: No thanks, I don't want my job offshored to India.
Why? I'm already paying their salaries with tax dollars, only to see those teachers in general retire to other towns at 90% salary after 20 years. They then get another unionzied teaching job and rinse-lather-repeat. Oh, and they are tenured (read: un-fireable) no matter how incompentant they are. So if they have to put out a $20 once in awhile for crayons I really don't feel for them at all, given the list of supplies I'm given to buy!
I have to work also at my house. Grading papers, lesson plans, looking at test scores, making and finding materials. Each year I spend about $5,000 of my own money so my students can have what they need to learn. I also have to deal with parents, federial government, school boards, local government, and people that don't have children in the school telling me how to teach the children. I have been teaching for 10 years now. Each year I improve my children test scores. People don't realize what teachers to do. I know that I can't be what you are, but people say that they can teach better then us. We have to go to extra trainings in the summer, also now some schools are making teachers get their maseters and teach at the same time. Yes some teachers need to go, but people have to realize that we need more support and help. We can't do this alone. I know you get support form people, but when ask for support we get laugh at and cut our money to help us. Many states are cutting the funds to schools, so the schools have to cut teaching jobs. That means one class for elementary class can have up to 30 students with one teacher at. You teach all those children with different levels to get ready for a test that is at a higher level. We also have to deal with students that have problems at home (divorce, not eating, getting abuse). We have sometimes have be there for their emotion needs also.
@CNMexico:
Yeah, and I also work from home. And if you really do spend $5,000 a year on your students, YOU ARE WAY OVERPAID.
Also, why haven't you mentioned that you're only a part-time employee? US teachers only teach 180 days a year.
I teach full time. I want you to try to teach. I am not overpay. I use my own money because I care for my students. You think teachers should be pay only $10,000. You don't realize what we go through. Get your facts straight more schools are going more days and teachers don't just go home when the students go home. We have extra days for training.
You should think about your teachers that you have. They got you ready to do your work. We are teaching the next generation. Alot of students come into school don't even know how to tie their shoes, the letters, numbers, and the basic. If the parents did their job then we don't have to do the basics.
@CNMexico: Reading your most recent post, I hope you're not a teacher. "I am not overpay"?
No, but I think tenure needs to be ended, the unions abolished and that you should work on a merit system like the other 90% of America.
Just what this country needs is out of control teacher union individuals elected as public officials. The teacher unions are a large part of the economic problems in the USA, we don't need more problems by electing them to public office. It's time to clean house and rid this country of unions PERIOD. They have outlived their usefulness. They are a plague in this country.
Ron, it sure can't be worse than a big businessman **cough Romney** running for office after moving jobs out of the U.S. and to China and then claiming to be a pro U.S. business candidate. Or how bout another past vice president who had a vested interest in Halliburton and it shaped middle east policies?
dburton....NJ rejected help from non-union electricians!!! You were saying? Dumba$$!!
The US Public Schools are falling further behind the rest of the world. It is probably time to shut down the Teacher Unions. The best way would be for the public to file malpractice suits against the teachers.
Wow! I welcome any of those who feel that teachers do a horrible job and have it easy, to walk into a classroom and try to do this "easy" job that so many feel have so many perks! First of all, teachers have post-graduate training/degrees and their starting salary is at least $30,000 lower than those who have an equal amount of education. Secondly, a teacher does not work only half of the year. While, we may be in the "office" for a shorter amount of days than the private sector, we are still working on our off time, either, lesson planning, grading, buying materials from out of our own pockets, researching strategies that will meet every students' needs, and/or preparing materials. Furthermore, it is a misnomer that tenure ensures job security. In my 13 years, I have witnessed 7 tenured teachers fired. Keeping bad teachers is not a priority of my union; rather, their focus is simply that due process is followed. Also, the main reason why students are not learning is simply because we live in a society that does place a value on learning or hard work. Rather, the focus is on instant gratification and entertainment. Please remember that we become teachers to help create educated members of our society, not for the perks. Many of us live paycheck to paycheck; just like the majority of working class Americans. The public wants highly-qualified teachers, who have a strong work ethic, yet, they don't want to pay for it. My students are my priority and their test scores grew by 20% last year, yet, my reward was larger class sizes, a pay cut, and an increase to my portion of my health insurance. Please WAKE UP and stop facilitating this illusion of the evil teachers' unions draining states' economies, for it simply isn't true. I encourage you all, to EDUCATE yourselves with the facts and stop believing the propaganda.
I know a 5th grade teacher that can't divide a fraction... bet you she is making more than me!!! I'm just an accountant.
So, we can then make sweeping generalizations based upon your experience with one teacher? If that teacher cannot divide a fraction, then that should be brought to their principals attention. However, please remember that there are 'bad' examples of all occupations.
valuesandpriorities... there are more examples, too many to talk of in this forum. Unions do not belong in a classroom. That is as brilliant as making an accounting union... too dangerous. Teachers need to take ownership and be evaluated. There are some really bad teachers out there.... and some really good ones that don't care anymore. They get paid the same!
austck is just shooting a lot of bullsh!t against the wall hoping that something will stick.
Where are your souces austck? What is Pi to the 10th position? I learned that in school many years ago and still remember it.
Wow! It is amazing how you make sweeping generalization, which simply a form of propaganda. Also, don't accountants who work for the same firm make the same salary? Or is your pay determined by your customers success/financial well being? I don't have a strong understanding of how your occupation works, but have had some shady dealing with those in finance/accounting. However, I do not stereotype all in said occupations because of a few bad apples. Lastly, I know hundreds of teachers...the vast majority care beyond what their contract says they are required to. It seems as if you have a negative view of an occupation that you really don't know enough about. Please educate yourself.
Values,
No we absolutely can NOT make sweeping generalizations. There are plenty of really EXCELLENT teachers out there. It's the inability of administrators and superintendents to deal with the really BAD ones that's the problem. Of course that's not the SOLE problem, but it's a biggie.
You can't deny that the U.S. is ranked somewhere between 25th and 30th in educational standings. What would you say to union reform? No more tenure or first in/last out. Start merit based pay raises. Come up with a better performance review system. Provide consequences for nepotism and cronyism.
Electing teachers will not only ensure nothing gets done politically, but our schools will continue to see a downward spiral, churning out mediocre kids who don't care about their futures. The good news is, once teachers realize they can't stage a sit-in whenever something at the State House doesn't go their way, they'll go running back to the security of their unions with lightning speed.
Bad Idea. California is in financial ruins because of teacher unions or any employee government union for that matter.
Once elected they take care of their own. "Pensions"
Fact: California spent $10.6 billion in services to those here illegally.
Fact: In California, education is facing an additional $6 billion in cuts this school year.
Fact: Teachers contribute a large percentage to their pensions.
I encourage you to educate yourself on the California State Budget, so that you are not simply believing propaganda.
Getting unions involved with anything political is like injecting live cancer cells.
Hey, Dude...What if.... all unions had been abolished 50-60 years ago..What have they accomplished in that interim that benefits YOU today...Think through this! Might be surprised to learn something about 40 hour work weeks, improved working conditions minimum wage legislation, etc.....Any of this ultimately effect your life? Not saying that ANY special interest group should "control" government. If you think I'm an idiot, that's OK! just saying...get the big picture!
@fed-up
So that's what we should all do? Vote in a self serving manner? Don't worry about what's best for the country, just what's best for ME?
As a career soldier, I've never enjoyed a 40 hr work week, minimum wage protections, improved working conditions, or any of these great things you claim a union provides, and you know what? I'm happy!!!
Yes that's right. I,(like most other Americans), don't need union interference to get things done and still live a full, happy, life.
People voting for more pay and less work are what's wrong with this country.
Whatever happened to work as hard as you can? Do your absolute best?
Why have our people come to worship laziness? I sit down one on one with younger soldiers all the time, asking them about their goals and aspirations. Very few of them say their goal is to work hard. They seem to think that if they just stick around long enough, they'll make General someday and will get paid the big bucks to sit at a desk and tell everyone else what to do. Or, they'll leave the Army and go find a good "gubment" job where they can get paid to do the least amount possible.
From my personal experience, those who work 40 hr workweeks, whine about pay, whine about working conditions, and whine about advancement, usually wind up having the worst performances, and worst pay. The pay of course is commensurate with their performance.
So logic should dictate to a reasonably intelligent person, that a mediocre job performance will result in a mediocre lifestyle. Granted, you may work your ass off and still wind up at the bottom of the food chain, but if your lazy this outcome is all but guaranteed.
THATS the big picture.
GI-JOE... you hit the point right on!!! Thank you! Teachers are against getting evaluated. Why?
Teachers are evaluated every year. They are not against being evaluated.
Pure semantics. True, they aren't against being evaluated, they are against being evaluated based on student test scores. Unfortunately, student test scores are the only concrete basis we can make evaluations on. I don't care about the teacher's "cheerfulness" or "presentation of syllabus".
The teachers mostly brought this on themselves. They've had over 40 years to decry the education system. They've had over 40 years to change the status quo. Sadly, they chose to sit on the sidelines and collect the cash while remaining silent. At any point their "union" could have made a stink about why the system is broken, but the unions also chose to remain silent and simply lobby for more and more cash. They,(the teachers and the unions), made it painfully obvious to us taxpayers that they had no interest in reforming the public education system. All they care about is the cash.
They can now reap what they've sown, and in all but the most liberal states, THEY WILL.
Unions look out for workers, I wish I had a union job. Why do so many American badmouth unions, jelousy. To many rich people get richer screwing the people that work for them. We have a failing school system all over the country. Other countrys in northern europe put way more money into school systems and pay their teachers more money with a lot more respect. Why can't we respect teachers.
I bet you went to a UNION school... didn't you? Can tell by your grammar!
You dont have a union job because a unions goal is to limit the amount of "capable" workers in their field. It is called supply and demand. They keep YOU out to make themselves worth more $$ per hour
Unions are a good part of the reason companies are leaving. I knew a guy getting 20$ hour to push a broom in 1988 a year later the company moved and the "Union" was not invited
FED-UP
Any to get these laws implemeted if you are not a union member is near to impossible. The EEOC will not even talk to you unless you are a union member. And no, there is no place for unions today with the laws in place if they would enforce them fairly across the board. Look at what unions did to Boeing. They lost a billion $$ investment because unions stepped in and prevented them from hiring non-union workers. Also lost 2200 new jobs that would have been added to our economy. That one is on OBummer. He was the one that had the labor dept. step in and stop Boeing.
look at NJ... they are in ruin... yet they turned away help from NON-UNION electricians. What....?!?!
Look out Ohio not happy with payoff and voting in droves for any and all Dumbocrats. This vile and corrupt union known as the teachers are now trying to get elected. Well they would be perfect for the job, they only work 180 days a year for about 4-6 hours per. And man can they spend the taxpayers money, they will push through every extra pay and benefit for the union that they can get. Oh and what about improvement to our public school kids who rank near last in test scores compared to the rest of the world? Nah they will not have time for that bit of work.
ARMY... You can't blame them. They will be getting out of teaching and into a much better job of trying to represent people at a much better salary with health care, pensions and a job that doesn't require a lot of thinking.
I know no teacher that was ever denied running for office, my wife is a teacher, and the pay and expected expense to help the students are outragous. The state controls the purse string while the whitehouse sets the expectations.
The teachers need plenty of financial support at schools although it is apparent that most of the money goes else where, even though it is suppose to go to schools.
But in this case, the union is involved. Its like the unions else where, they are corrupt, like the democratic party. They do not care about students, its about union dues and what political party the money can support. It is no longer whats good for america, its about corruption....unions.
The best way to displace the dumbass tea-baggers running for office is to defeat them on Election Day. Good for teachers and here's to more intelligent legislatures everywhere.
Public Unions and their supporters go outside of the Constitution to try and create a communist country. IN THIS COUNTRY the government, and all of it's employees, are SUPPOSED to serve for the interest of the people. When the government can hold the public hostage to demands of government, over the will and interest of the people, that is no longer constitutional, or a democracy.
This isn't about teachers, it's about a government not of the people, not by the people, and against the people.
When our founding fathers were presented with a government, that when the people complained they were not being represented, then refused the services the government is expressly in existence to provide, they called for armed rebellion. This is why we are a nation.
Public unions are simply the American Communist Party organized against the people of a democratic country.
If the people do not agree to their excessive demands for compensation far above the average worker of the same education level, they strike, and suspend the functions of government, they stop picking up trash, or stop running the public transportation, or stop educating the children. This is a government of terrorists.
Michael. Where you ever, or are you now, a reincarnation of Joe McCarthy?
Union membership in the United States is at less than 11%, thats right one in ten workers is a union member. In Germany it is 37% Switzerland is also higher than America. It is about time we got involved in politics and help forge a better future. Better average workers than religous zelots
Dan, I lived in Germany. Hardly anybody can afford to have their own house. I moved back to USA for freedom... SORRY>>> NO UNION!!!
Please explain NJ to me? They turned away help from non-union electricians
I am getting tired of asking you for your sources.
Louis Bee,
I have seen this already posted numerous times here so you may have seen it already, however as you seem uninterested in simply reading the news and looking around a bit to see if it is true that Non union utility workers were turned away from NJ, I found it for you (in like 3 seconds by the way)
and,
You do of course realize you are posting on a 'news' site so you could easily have checked had you chosen to but..................
Now to be fair the story says right in it: "Hardin said the crews were not turned away, but were made to believe that affiliating with the union was a requirement to work." which is bad enough...........
O.K. so my links did not stay, funny they showed in the review and allowed me to edit when they did not post the first time. Well it is on MSMBC, WWW.waff.com and they reference Fox business.
This is what you get Republicans. You attack peoples lives and they will come after your jobs.
If you left the Teachers alone they would be happy just being a Teacher in the class room. But Now they are out to school you!
They will take away your jobs and put you on the unemployment line.
That is how democracy works. You don't like something? Do something about it and change it.
These Teachers have common sense something missing from career politcians and they will get every parent out there to back them.
You have bit off more than you can chew Republican canidates. And your going to find out that it is just not on this issue but every issue and people will over throw you and take you out of office along with your greedy policies.
Teachers are not in the classroom to teach. That went by the wayside at least 40 years ago. They are there because they have great pay, benefits and retirement all at the expense of the taxpayers that have no control over what they teach, how it's taught and what kind agendas they push on our kids. Sorry, but myself and my kids were brought up in the public school system and it is the most corrupt, non-committal, politicizing, demoralizing, group of people that are only out to protect their own a$$e$.
Teachers my children had in high school were nothing but communists pushing their communist agendas and not caring that kids were not taught the basics of our countries patriots and why they fought and died for the freedoms the teachers were trying to take away.
While most candidates are lawyers or businessmen types, it would be refreshing to have teachers in the political arena.
It's also my perception that teachers are so, because it is their calling, little to do with income.
Finally, the teachers have a greater understanding and respect for the freedoms expressed by our Constitution, whereas those others are looking for ways to personally capitalize.