Gunman kills 2, wounds 2 at chicken processing plant in Fresno, Calif.

Fresno authorities said that one person is dead and four others are wounded, including the suspected gunman, in a workplace shooting at a food service company.

 

A gunman on Tuesday killed two people and wounded two others at a chicken processing plant in Fresno, Calif., before turning the gun on himself, authorities said.

The suspect, a co-worker of the victims, was found outside the plant with what appeared to be a self-inflicted gunshot wound to the head, Fresno Police Chief Jerry Dyer told reporters. He died a few hours later.

Police initially reported one death, but a second victim later died, the local coroner stated.


The names of the victims were not immediately released.

The suspect was identified as Lawrence Jones, 42. He has an "extensive criminal history," Dyer added.

Jones reported for work before dawn and his coworkers noticed that he "did not appear to be himself," Dyer said. Jones was at the meat processing plant for more than three hours before opening fire with a handgun, Dyer said. 

Dyer initially said the plant is called Apple Valley Farms, but city of Fresno spokesman Michael Lukens later said the business recently changed its name to Valley Protein. The facility processes poultry, he said. 

KSEE 24

First aid responders treat a person at the scene of the shooting in Fresno, Calif., Tuesday morning.

Fresno, a city with a population of about 500,000, is located 160 miles southeast of San Francisco and is surrounded by farmland in the San Joaquin Valley. 

The Associated Press and Reuters contributed to this report.

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This wouldn't have happened if the shooter had been out voting.

  • 9 votes
Reply#1 - Tue Nov 6, 2012 1:27 PM EST

It also would not have happened if the perpetrator was sill incarcerated for his criminal history.

  • 24 votes
#1.1 - Tue Nov 6, 2012 1:47 PM EST

Well at least he's dead,

God speed and a quick recovery for the wounded

  • 6 votes
#1.2 - Tue Nov 6, 2012 1:47 PM EST

Lunkystraydog

Well at least he's dead,

Not yet............

  • 2 votes
#1.3 - Tue Nov 6, 2012 1:48 PM EST

I wonder if he was a gun control advocate???

    #1.4 - Tue Nov 6, 2012 3:15 PM EST

    Comments # 3 and # 4 deleted, political derails.

    • 1 vote
    #1.5 - Tue Nov 6, 2012 4:27 PM EST

    Another nut with a gun...

    • 2 votes
    #1.6 - Tue Nov 6, 2012 5:21 PM EST

    Alan is right. And what the frickin' heck was this business doing endangering all the other employees by hiring a man with "an extensive criminal history"? Unfortunately, the California prison system has been overflowing with men like that for so long that these repeat offenders get routinely rotated out of the prison system, instead of serving out their sentence. Thank goodness, his merry go round of victimizing other on the taxpayer dime is over. Condolences to the families of his victims. And hopefully some lawsuits will be in the Christmas stockings of the plant owners for allowing this violent cretin to be hired.

    • 1 vote
    #1.7 - Tue Nov 6, 2012 5:35 PM EST

    Plenty of "going postal" criminal behaviors go on from people with no prior history, and I'm not even including the white collar crimes whose pain is felt by blue collar workers who see grabbing a gun as the only solution.....

    • 1 vote
    #1.8 - Tue Nov 6, 2012 7:27 PM EST

    If this man is a convicted felon, why is there no picture of him in the article?

      #1.9 - Tue Nov 6, 2012 8:43 PM EST

      if you ever worked in a poultry processing plant...you can only take so much...before the feathers fly...and all those crazy chicks...i'd take a bullet for a pullet...and last but not least... oh what a feeling chickens hanging from the ceiling...

      • 2 votes
      #1.10 - Tue Nov 6, 2012 9:09 PM EST

      This seems to be happening all too frequently. Was this employee repeatedly harassed ? No one condones this level of violence. I suspect management--just was not there--and hispanics (or other culture cliques) can be very nasty to put it euphamistically(discriminatory/very vicious)--gang banging literally on the job. It would be interesting to see with a namae like Jones what was occurring--if he was bullied or harassed on the job. Could be purely conicidental--perhaps he had a mental illness or the working environment was compounding factors. many of these plants also hire illegals (and they have alot of fun and games on the job!). I wish Obama could visit one of these plants and see the reality of what it takes to produce chicken and other products when large groups of illegals are in the equation or mentally ill...and in companies that do not have the resources or clue what to even watch for to protect employees/public and individuals.

        #1.11 - Tue Nov 6, 2012 9:52 PM EST

        I wonder if bad bosses or a hostile workplace had anything to do with it. Still, it's no excuse to turning to violence.

          #1.12 - Wed Nov 7, 2012 5:10 AM EST

          No, Marie485962, not "another nut with a gun" - another criminal who unlawfully obtained a weapon and used it in an unlawful way. That he was nuts is not even proven - he might just have been acting in his usual good-natured (for him) way, although people did say he didn't seem to be himself that morning, although they didn't say just who he did seem to be.

          Point here is that once again the gun-advocate's oft-sounded cry of "...only outlaws will have guns" has been proven once again.

            #1.13 - Wed Nov 7, 2012 3:11 PM EST
            Reply

            Shocking!

            • 1 vote
            Reply#4 - Tue Nov 6, 2012 1:33 PM EST

            I dont know if shocking is the appropriate word, seeing the record number of shootings we have had this year. What is shocking is the racial makeup in that workplace. Either it is mostly Hispanics - or they do not know how to dodge bullets.

            Nevertheless, not all shooters are "crazy" - they are simply angry. Sometimes, it is actually the victims that are the "crazy" ones. Enough said!

            • 3 votes
            #4.1 - Tue Nov 6, 2012 2:06 PM EST

            allergic - what the hell are you talking about?

            • 5 votes
            #4.2 - Tue Nov 6, 2012 2:59 PM EST

            Why Sh@@ happens

              #4.3 - Tue Nov 6, 2012 3:18 PM EST

              not all shooters are "crazy" - they are simply angry. Sometimes, it is actually the victims that are the "crazy" ones.

              I quit my job last month because of workplace bullying. When you are an outsider and outnumbered, it's about the only option you've got. When a person uses violence as a permanent solution to a temporary problem, the shooter is always depicted as the villain, and if his trigger was workplace bullying, the bullies depicted as victims.

              When it comes to the hot-button issue of "gun control," I'll take a pragmatic approach, that is, as long as there is demand for them, people are going to get them, kind of like drugs.

              • 1 vote
              #4.4 - Tue Nov 6, 2012 7:54 PM EST

              So shooting your bullying co-workers makes you a victim? I don't think so. We've all had jobs where we've felt singled out, or just not accepted. You either deal with it, or you leave.

              Shooting is not an option

                #4.5 - Tue Nov 6, 2012 8:46 PM EST

                No One Knows the facts with this guy; Time Will Tell. Working in ANY animal killing house can make a Normal Person Very Abnormal; it cannot be a fun place. Did anyone see the Twilight Zone episode where aliens came to Earth to fulfill the Duty Mission of "How To Serve Man", Literally, where the situation is reversed and WE Humans ARE food. Well, Many Severe And Good Changes to Humankind are coming, lest MotherNature Weighs in; like with the 1917 SpanishFlu which Whacked 60Million Humans ONLY and the atmosphere had the virus floating in it Around the Globe. With Bird and Ebola Viruses, We Humans can be wiped out. We better Stop The $H!T ASAP.

                  #4.6 - Tue Nov 6, 2012 11:15 PM EST

                  wow Ive had a lotta lotta jobs. But i have never had a job where I was singled out for any reason. Even when the discrimination to women was really bad. That was in the 70s and 80s. I have never really been bullied either. Not saying it does not exsist i know it does. I have been sexually harrased. I dealt with that the old fashioned way. It worked at that place anyway. Now days you cannot do that. You will get in trouble. Now we have commitees and investigations and a section in HR to handle the disgruntled and harassed and discrimanated employees. Alota good its doing. Seems like things are getting worse. If you bully someone at work you should be FIRED period. You people that bully disrupt the work enviroment and decrease production and morale and make it hard for everyone to earn a living. Grow up. work is not play time. You are there to work. Just do your job and leave everybody else alone.

                    #4.7 - Wed Nov 7, 2012 12:05 AM EST
                    Reply

                    Larry Jones had an extensive criminal background per this article.With so many people unemployed in the Central Valley and this company chose to hire this man.This is why employers should not be given tax credits for hiring felons.I'm sorry for the loss of the one person and hope that the other two victims pull through.

                    • 8 votes
                    Reply#5 - Tue Nov 6, 2012 1:34 PM EST

                    Unfortunately, these days a criminal record is sometimes seen as a PLUS on one's job report.

                    • 6 votes
                    #5.1 - Tue Nov 6, 2012 1:41 PM EST

                    Oh, so one felon does something bad, so no felons should be given a second chance?

                    • 10 votes
                    #5.2 - Tue Nov 6, 2012 1:41 PM EST

                    MikeO76

                    Sure give them a second chance, but NOT at the expense of a job for a NON-CRIMINAL.

                    • 13 votes
                    #5.3 - Tue Nov 6, 2012 1:44 PM EST

                    To bad the non criminals were not armed, o well, good thing we only have criminals with guns running around.

                    • 4 votes
                    #5.4 - Tue Nov 6, 2012 1:50 PM EST

                    MikeO76

                    Are you a felon? And no, felons should not be given the same chances as non-felons.

                    • 7 votes
                    #5.5 - Tue Nov 6, 2012 1:52 PM EST

                    My brother is a convicted felon. He is also now married with 2 kids, and 3 more kids from his wife's previous marriage. He makes a good living earning a good wage. He has earned back his voting rights and gun ownership rights. He pays his taxes, and supports his community in many ways.

                    One would never know what happened 20 years ago...

                    I'm glad convicts are given second chances - the same chances as non-felons!

                    • 10 votes
                    #5.6 - Tue Nov 6, 2012 2:32 PM EST

                    Extensive criminal history sound like 2nd chance? perhaps 3rd, 5th,or 50th chance.

                    • 8 votes
                    #5.7 - Tue Nov 6, 2012 3:10 PM EST

                    Mike,If I had a choice of a law abiding person or a felon I'd hire the law abiding person.Employers hire felons for the tax credit.A guy with this extensive of a record was a danger to his co-workers as is obvious by what happened.Our employment tax credits in this country cause qualified people not to be hired for jobs. In america we are in the habit of rewarding bad behavior and this slaughter in a workplace proves my statement to be true.By the way,my nephew is a felon,has a job,and I have nothing to do with the former meth head.It sounds harsh but I still don't trust him enough to be around him.After his third incarceration for meth he received job training,is paid $15.00 an hour and works lots of overtime.I feel that is wrong.He should be out digging ditches for $8.00 an hour if he was to have any job.He's not trust worthy in my book.

                    • 4 votes
                    #5.8 - Tue Nov 6, 2012 4:36 PM EST

                    My son is a convicted felon for drug possession. He was young and a heroin addict when he was convicted. He has been a recovering addict for many years. He attended college, is employed, supports his wife and is awaiting the birth of his first child. He's a good person who made bad choices in his late teens.

                    Being a felon doesn't mean you're going to go kill people, it simply means you were convicted of a crime. The crime could be drug possession, homicide, embezzlement or many other crimes. Some violent, some not violent. You simply cannot lump felons into group, no more than you can lump race, or gender. Bad people come in all shapes, sizes and colors, and not all are felons. The young man who shot the people in the theatre in Colorado had never been convicted. How would you explain that?

                    • 5 votes
                    #5.9 - Tue Nov 6, 2012 5:40 PM EST

                    artsylady

                    The Colorado killings is a whole other topic that has nothing relating to this story. As for you son, good that he recovered, hopefully does not go back to making bad decisions. You maybe correct about drug felons, that's a topic of its own. But we are talking about a repeat offender here. I'm also a firm believer that if you get caught for one crime, you've probably gotten away with 100 other crime.

                    • 1 vote
                    #5.10 - Tue Nov 6, 2012 5:57 PM EST

                    Programs for rehabilitating felons and getting them back into the workplace are sadly under-funded. Many companies do not hire convicted felons, whereas many felonies are drug-related or non-violent.

                    Hiring needs to be done on a case-by-case basis - as this lady stated, not all felons are violent.

                    The problem is, when those with felonies try to get back into the job force, and desire to "go straight" some might tend to turn back to crime as a means of income or material gain when they cannot find work otherwise. If they try to solicit handouts, panhandling is illegal (at least where I live).

                    While this is a bit off-topic, felons are not eligible for benefits like food stamps, welfare or disability (to my knowledge).

                      #5.11 - Tue Nov 6, 2012 8:06 PM EST

                      artsy lady,the guy in Colorado suffers from mental illness.Long term drug use has been proven to also cause mental illness.I'm happy for your son and family but I wouldn't trust him either.Sorry but as a business owner the insurance premium for PL/PD would be too high for me to hire a felon.

                      • 1 vote
                      #5.12 - Tue Nov 6, 2012 9:52 PM EST

                      Lumping every felon into the same category is extremely ignorant. Unfortunately, we'll hear only one side of this story and will never know the whole truth.

                        #5.13 - Tue Nov 6, 2012 10:08 PM EST

                        what happened to the 3 strikes your out deal? did that program not go over well? Or do they not have it in california. I did not think that was such a bad idea except for the fact that prisons are way over crowded. Why dont we stop putting people in prison for marijuana offenses and keep people in there for violent crimes a little longer. I dont think we do rehabilatation anymore. Seems like I read somewhere that it failed so they stopped doing rehab for prisoners. I wonder what actually happened with this guy that would make him want to kill his co workers?

                          #5.14 - Wed Nov 7, 2012 12:15 AM EST
                          Reply

                          "Dyer noted that Jones is African American and that all four victims are Hispanic."

                          So............does it matter or is this Dyer trying to incite something here? What if the victims were 2 hispanics, 1 white, and 1 Martian. But too bad the shooter missed himself, no Freson is going to have to pay for his medical bills.

                          • 3 votes
                          Reply#6 - Tue Nov 6, 2012 1:38 PM EST

                          It probably has nothing to do with Trayvon Martin and George Zimmerman, though.

                          • 1 vote
                          #6.1 - Tue Nov 6, 2012 1:50 PM EST

                          If the shooter had been illegal - most likely they would have noted that tid-bit of info, by the 4th news article. Lawrence Jones, was also most likely American, while the Hispanics were most likely illegals. Do we play "Which of these things do not belong"? Sad!

                          • 3 votes
                          #6.2 - Tue Nov 6, 2012 2:01 PM EST

                          Dyer has Hispanics in his family.He's a media hound and was stating the facts of people's skin color which i feel has nothing to do with this crime.He draws a hard line on gangs of all races.

                          • 1 vote
                          #6.3 - Tue Nov 6, 2012 4:38 PM EST
                          Reply

                          You people are pathetic.

                          • 13 votes
                          Reply#7 - Tue Nov 6, 2012 1:40 PM EST

                          Hi Cap.... you and I don't often agree, but on your post, 100%.

                          People are very seriously pathetic bringing political BS into this.

                          • 12 votes
                          #7.1 - Tue Nov 6, 2012 1:43 PM EST

                          Huh! What do you mean "You People?"

                          • 4 votes
                          #7.2 - Tue Nov 6, 2012 2:01 PM EST

                          This has nothing to do with politics!

                          It's about, err.... illegal immigration! racism! gun control! I'm sure the death penalty folks will show up soon enough, too. And the obligatory "deport his ass!" guys...

                          • 4 votes
                          #7.3 - Tue Nov 6, 2012 3:25 PM EST

                          MIFO,In California we had a choice on the ballot for or against retaining the death penalty.According to the L.a.Times,Larry Jones is deceased.Workplace shootings are always tragic.

                          • 1 vote
                          #7.4 - Tue Nov 6, 2012 4:42 PM EST
                          Reply

                          I expect we will see more of this in the future..."Jones is African American and that all four victims are Hispanic."

                          • 3 votes
                          Reply#8 - Tue Nov 6, 2012 1:40 PM EST

                          Perhaps the Hispanics, who (maybe) would speak enough English around the suspect (whom most likely did not speak Spanish) so he would feel inclusive, started speaking Spanish around the suspect....then started laughing amongst themselves, leaving the suspect clueless, other than to think they were talking/laughing at him.

                          Any English speakers (out there) ever felt that way... around people who speak English/Spanish - or any other non-English language - then suddenly start speaking Spanish (or any other) and laugh, leaving YOU out?

                          I always wondered why people who speak two languages switch on people who don't, then start laughing together.

                          Even if they are not talking about or laughing at YOU, they set themselves up for people who don't speak their lingo to THINK they are.

                          Not justifying anything, but throwing it out there.....

                          • 5 votes
                          #8.1 - Tue Nov 6, 2012 4:10 PM EST

                          Or it could be the Hispanics did not understand Ebonics....and they could not understand his lingo.....just throwing it out there.

                          • 2 votes
                          #8.2 - Tue Nov 6, 2012 8:19 PM EST

                          Well, if he was talking to himself with Ebonics, it would not matter; he'd be laughing at himself, by himself, suspecting no one.

                          He did target certain employees, bypassing others. They could have been French, Arab or Vietnamese.

                          My point was he may have felt they were talking about him, then laughing. It's my speculation, based on the information released. I know there's more to it, but we may never know for sure.

                            #8.3 - Wed Nov 7, 2012 2:27 PM EST
                            Reply

                            My sincere condolences to the victims and their families.

                            • 12 votes
                            Reply#9 - Tue Nov 6, 2012 1:41 PM EST

                            Pretty pathetic that something of this tragic nature brings out the political trolls. Thank goodness after today they'll have to come up with something/someone more creative to blame than Obama or Romney. I do believe and agree that the media keeps stoking the racism fire.

                            • 10 votes
                            Reply#10 - Tue Nov 6, 2012 1:42 PM EST

                            Observing2

                            Sorry, but if you haven't already seen it, MSN has this on it list already:

                            Who might run in 2016?

                            They just can't give it a rest for a minute.

                            • 6 votes
                            #10.1 - Tue Nov 6, 2012 1:46 PM EST

                            XD - I hear you . . . as I said, the media just has to keep the fires stoked. We haven't even had a chance to catch our breath on 2012 and they toss in 2016. I think there's a new syndrome: MSNPTSD

                            • 2 votes
                            #10.2 - Tue Nov 6, 2012 2:26 PM EST
                            Reply

                            Romney has a criminal history too they just don't label it that way, and Romney doesn't have to work in a food service equipment company either -he just collects all the profits off the backs of others and then goes home an knocks up his wife/wives. But he's white, so it's no big deal. Of course.

                            • 8 votes
                            Reply#11 - Tue Nov 6, 2012 1:44 PM EST

                            Are you on crack?

                            • 7 votes
                            #11.1 - Tue Nov 6, 2012 1:49 PM EST

                            Get help. Much can be done for mental illness these days.

                              #11.2 - Tue Nov 6, 2012 2:50 PM EST

                              Yep, there IS a mental illness clause in ObamaCare. You're welcome. :D

                                #11.3 - Tue Nov 6, 2012 3:31 PM EST
                                Reply

                                This is the first time I've ever read that a law enforcement officer describe the ethnicity of the victims and the shooter in reporting a crime of this nature. Now all the racists out there are forming their opinions as to the guilt or innocence of the shooter. Do the Hispanic victims deserve anything less? No. Please pray for all of them and recovery for the survivors.

                                • 4 votes
                                Reply#12 - Tue Nov 6, 2012 1:46 PM EST

                                Really, Heather? Then you either just arrived from another planet or have never, ever read/watched the news before. Law enforcement describes perps and victims all the time by race/ethnicity.

                                • 1 vote
                                #12.1 - Tue Nov 6, 2012 5:41 PM EST
                                Reply

                                I think it was more important for us to know the shooter has an extensive criminal history, than the fact that he was black and the victims were hispanic. I don't think it was politically related, Zimmerman related maybe.

                                • 4 votes
                                Reply#13 - Tue Nov 6, 2012 1:49 PM EST

                                Don't be silly, both are salient facts to the events and the story. As both will likely be salient facts to the lawsuits the families of the victims will file against the owners of the processing plant that hired this thug.

                                • 1 vote
                                #13.1 - Tue Nov 6, 2012 5:44 PM EST
                                Reply

                                19th mass shooting since 2009. Obama's hopeless America.

                                • 4 votes
                                Reply#14 - Tue Nov 6, 2012 1:50 PM EST

                                Yep, personal responsibility is blaming someone else. I truely hope you don't have access to any guns.

                                • 5 votes
                                #14.1 - Tue Nov 6, 2012 1:56 PM EST

                                No, just a hopelessly VIOLENT America.

                                • 3 votes
                                #14.2 - Tue Nov 6, 2012 1:56 PM EST

                                Ban handguns.

                                  #14.3 - Tue Nov 6, 2012 6:37 PM EST

                                  Takenaka, if you live in the US, could you please go back to school and learn more than two words? If we banned stupid people, you would disappear.

                                    #14.4 - Wed Nov 7, 2012 2:55 AM EST
                                    Reply

                                    It's like president mitthead says. We don't need any more gun laws. The ones we have are working fine. Nice to blame it on the current prez... how many under dorkboy bush?

                                    • 3 votes
                                    Reply#15 - Tue Nov 6, 2012 1:54 PM EST

                                    "president"?

                                    Did they already announce the election results? We should at least pretend to count the votes before calling it...

                                    • 4 votes
                                    #15.1 - Tue Nov 6, 2012 3:22 PM EST
                                    Reply

                                    WOW! Not one "Another win for the NRA" or "All guns should be banned"! Does this mean the haters are starting to realize guns really are not the problem? We can only hope!

                                    • 2 votes
                                    Reply#16 - Tue Nov 6, 2012 2:10 PM EST

                                    Are we sure this guy was not part of the gun control group???

                                      #16.1 - Tue Nov 6, 2012 3:19 PM EST

                                      Another win for the NRA.

                                      • 1 vote
                                      #16.2 - Tue Nov 6, 2012 6:38 PM EST

                                      Takenaka, I am glad you feel so safe in your mom's basement. In the real world though bad people do bad things. Criminals don't obey any laws (hence the term criminals) so banning guns, or cheap shots at the NRA (which promote firearms safety, training, and lawful use) just makes you look like a petulant child.

                                        #16.3 - Wed Nov 7, 2012 3:00 AM EST
                                        Reply

                                        This is sad. More honest people should be arming and protecting themselves. Society is becoming increasingly strained. Protect yourself before a lunatic cracks near you or your family.

                                        • 5 votes
                                        Reply#17 - Tue Nov 6, 2012 2:14 PM EST
                                        George NYDeleted

                                        agreed 10000000000000% If I leave my home, I do so prepared to defend myself and loved ones.

                                          #17.2 - Wed Nov 7, 2012 3:01 AM EST
                                          Reply

                                          I do hope the gunman dies... it will be cheaper for the taxpayers. I pray for the victums of this shooting, but I also do have a question, Where did this criminal get the gun?

                                            Reply#18 - Tue Nov 6, 2012 2:31 PM EST

                                            From the back trunk of a car in the town. Are we sure this guy was not a gun contral advocate.. And he shot himself in the head...

                                              #18.1 - Tue Nov 6, 2012 3:22 PM EST

                                              Jay12456,The shooter did succumb to his self inflicted gunshot wound.

                                                #18.2 - Tue Nov 6, 2012 10:00 PM EST
                                                Reply

                                                can't believe MSNBC actually reported there races....

                                                • 2 votes
                                                Reply#19 - Tue Nov 6, 2012 2:39 PM EST

                                                So let me try to get this straight...It's not the poor felon's fault, he's just understandably angry about Obama's America. But we should all strap on our guns every day when we go to work? In case someone with a gun gets angry?

                                                  Reply#20 - Tue Nov 6, 2012 3:00 PM EST

                                                  no it means the three strikes law actually does protect the public

                                                  • 1 vote
                                                  #20.1 - Tue Nov 6, 2012 3:20 PM EST

                                                  OC, there was a time in this country when one strike sent a felon to prison for an extended vacation in cold storage, as well as shamed his family into not producing any more just like him. Those were the days when the average American citizen was safer. Now, it seems that this country has so many lowlife scum that the average citizen knows someone who has been in jail or has been there himself.

                                                  • 1 vote
                                                  #20.2 - Tue Nov 6, 2012 5:48 PM EST

                                                  littlechanges,That's because we are more populated.I'm not sure if people were really safer at one time in this country.I think we hear about every crime due to the internet.

                                                    #20.3 - Tue Nov 6, 2012 10:03 PM EST
                                                    Reply

                                                    I hope my friends cope with this tragedy. My heart and thoughts go to the innocent people. God speed in your recovery.

                                                    • 1 vote
                                                    Reply#21 - Tue Nov 6, 2012 3:18 PM EST

                                                    Guns ARE the problem! GUN CONTROL NOW!!!

                                                    • 1 vote
                                                    Reply#22 - Tue Nov 6, 2012 3:20 PM EST
                                                    George NYDeleted

                                                    Actually, FELONS with guns are the problem.

                                                    My firearms have never escaped from the safe they are locked in and perpetrated any crime, unlike human criminals escaping and being let out of prison.

                                                    Unless, when you note "GUN CONTROL NOW!!!" you're referring to the ability of an honest citizen using a firearm in defense of innocents to hit what they aim at. If THAT'S what you're proposing, I agree with you 100%.

                                                    • 6 votes
                                                    #22.2 - Tue Nov 6, 2012 3:30 PM EST

                                                    Nearly every one of these 'mass shootings' takes place in a "gun free zone".

                                                    Maybe they need to pass a law to abolish "gun free zones".

                                                    • 1 vote
                                                    #22.3 - Tue Nov 6, 2012 4:04 PM EST

                                                    Gun Control.....not a bad idea.........maybe we should try what England does. For the most part, it works pretty good for them.

                                                      #22.4 - Tue Nov 6, 2012 4:27 PM EST

                                                      @volleyballmom

                                                      What exactly is your definition of gun control law, seriously? Let's call it what it is....gun banning. Is that what we're talking about here?

                                                        #22.5 - Tue Nov 6, 2012 4:38 PM EST

                                                        STOP blaming guns! Guns DON'T pi$$ you off - PEOPLE do! Blame people!

                                                        Otherwise, people would just throw guns away or not buy them. Get it? Dam!!

                                                        It will ALWAYS be PEOPLE that pi$$ you off, directly. Not guns.

                                                        My guns have NEVER pi$$ed me off. They stay where I put them and will not load without me nor venture out. More obedient than a dog. Am I wrong?

                                                          #22.6 - Tue Nov 6, 2012 4:50 PM EST
                                                          Reply
                                                          George NYDeleted

                                                          Guns aren't the problem, CRIMINALS are the problem, volleydork.

                                                          • 3 votes
                                                          Reply#24 - Tue Nov 6, 2012 3:35 PM EST

                                                          He likely has multiple convictions because his momma never taught him any self-discipline. He just does what he feels like doing, right or wrong. He should be either incarcerated for the rest of his life, or euthanized.

                                                          • 1 vote
                                                          Reply#25 - Tue Nov 6, 2012 3:44 PM EST

                                                          jerryb=1604912,You can't incarcerate a deceased person.

                                                          • 1 vote
                                                          #25.1 - Tue Nov 6, 2012 10:05 PM EST
                                                          Reply

                                                          Obviously more guns will solve the problem. Guns don't kill people, people with guns kill people.

                                                          • 1 vote
                                                          Reply#26 - Tue Nov 6, 2012 3:51 PM EST

                                                          I'm glad that you recognize that it is NOT the fault of the firearm. It is the fault and responsibility of the PERSON using the firearm in a criminal manner that is the problem.

                                                          • 2 votes
                                                          #26.1 - Tue Nov 6, 2012 4:05 PM EST

                                                          Gun Free Zones kill people.

                                                          • 2 votes
                                                          #26.2 - Tue Nov 6, 2012 4:05 PM EST

                                                          Also, 'Gun Infested Zones' kill people.......I feel a song coming on about now.......'God Bless America, land that I.....blah,blah,blah

                                                          • 1 vote
                                                          #26.3 - Tue Nov 6, 2012 4:16 PM EST

                                                          Bad parenting, freedom usurping government and sociopathic tendancies kill people.

                                                            #26.4 - Tue Nov 6, 2012 4:24 PM EST

                                                            Gun "Infested" Zones?

                                                            You mean like how gun "Infested" Virginia has a MUCH lower firearm involved crime rate than gun controlled Washington DC, strict Gun Control Maryland, and gun banning New York?

                                                            • 2 votes
                                                            #26.5 - Tue Nov 6, 2012 4:42 PM EST

                                                            I'm glad that you recognize that it is NOT the fault of the firearm.

                                                            I have never heard anyone say that guns pull their own triggers. So, why do pro gun people say over and over again that people kill, not guns.

                                                            The simple fact is that guns, especially hand guns are the #1 murder weapon in the US. And the reason for that is pretty clear. A gun is just about the best thing we got for killing.

                                                            Better than cars. You can't kill someone on the 4th floor of a building with a car.

                                                            Better than dynamite. It's hard to get dynamite. You need a federal explosives license to get dynamite.

                                                            Better than a baseball bat. Swinging a baseball bat makes your arms tired.

                                                            Better than a knife. Not easy to butcher a person.

                                                            Nope, if I want to do some killing, I'm gonna get me a gun. Even though guns are relatively expensive, compared to say, a knife. Yep, gun please.

                                                            Guns make it easy to kill a lot of people.

                                                            • 1 vote
                                                            #26.6 - Tue Nov 6, 2012 4:49 PM EST

                                                            Davey, feel free to dial 9-1-1 if confronted by a criminal and wait for their response time.

                                                            Legally owned firearms are also used every day to protect lives from a criminal with a gun.

                                                            When you can get ALL the criminals to turn their illegal guns in to the police, I might re-evaluate the need for my legally owned ones.

                                                            • 1 vote
                                                            #26.7 - Tue Nov 6, 2012 6:42 PM EST

                                                            I have no doubt that there are legitimate uses of guns, and I focus on hand guns, for self defense.

                                                            But the data shows that hand hand guns are used, like, 20 times more to commit murder than they are used to kill in self defense. And I see no reason why those ratios should not also hold in all hand gun incidents (i.e. not just when death is the result).

                                                            Of course, your statement

                                                            When you can get ALL the criminals to turn their illegal guns in to the police, I might re-evaluate the need for my legally owned ones.

                                                            is ridiculous. All the criminals will never turn in all their guns. That ain't gonna happen.

                                                            But you know, lots of mayhem is committed by legal gun owners, too. I don't know why you would make the distinction between legal and illegal guns. I'm sure there are people keeping guns illegally who will not murder or cause mayhem. And, there are legal gun owners who will.

                                                            Don't look at tomorrow, look into the future, for your children and grandchildren.

                                                            Machine guns are not a problem in society today because of laws that were passed 80 years ago. People do not commit mayhem with dynamite because dynamite is such a controlled item. We need to find a way to make it just as hard to get a hand gun.

                                                            You see Ed, it's a wierd situation. You want a gun to feel safe. OK. So far so good. But, you also want it to be very easy for someone to buy a hand gun. Uh oh, that's trouble. When there are so many hand guns, so easy to get, it will be so easy for the bad guys to get one.

                                                            Ed, if you were confronted by a criminal with a hand gun, you are well advised to do the exact same thing that I would do, be very polite and cooperate.

                                                              #26.8 - Tue Nov 6, 2012 7:25 PM EST

                                                              Unlike the sheeple, I prefer to use situational awareness instead of having my attention focused on a smart phone or having earbuds stuck in my ears every waking second. Bad guys don't appear out of thin air. If you pay attention, you'll see them coming and not have to react at the last second.

                                                              I legally carry a handgun for personal protection because I can't find a holster big enough to carry a cop.

                                                              If you don't act like a clueless victim, you stand less of a chance of becoming one.

                                                              "Be polite and cooperate" Riiiiight ..........what if the bad guy decides he wants your wife or daughter as well as your wallet?, or decides to take your wallet and not leave a witness?

                                                              As for machine guns, they are still legal for a 'common peasant' to own.

                                                              • 1 vote
                                                              #26.9 - Tue Nov 6, 2012 8:17 PM EST

                                                              Ed, you are a warrior, no doubt about it. Most people are not warriors.

                                                              I legally carry a handgun for personal protection because I can't find a holster big enough to carry a cop.

                                                              :-)

                                                              If you don't act like a clueless victim, you stand less of a chance of becoming one.

                                                              That is true and has nothing to do with having a gun. In fact, would it interest you to know about a study that showed that having a gun increased the liklihood of getting shot?

                                                              http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/09/090930121512.htm

                                                              You are correct when you say that it is not illegal to possess a machine guns! How beautiful is that? Legal, but almost no mayhem committed by people with machine guns. That's what I'm talking about.

                                                                #26.10 - Tue Nov 6, 2012 8:32 PM EST

                                                                "In fact, would it interest you to know about a study that showed that having a gun increased the liklihood of getting shot?"

                                                                Tell that to the SOB who has been pushing up daisies now for the last 16 yrs. that shoved a gun in my face and attempted to rob ME.

                                                                  #26.11 - Tue Nov 6, 2012 9:09 PM EST

                                                                  Ed,That's a good one.Your comment about not being able to find a holster big enough to carry a cop.

                                                                    #26.12 - Tue Nov 6, 2012 10:08 PM EST

                                                                    Tell that to the SOB who has been pushing up daisies now for the last 16 yrs. that shoved a gun in my face and attempted to rob ME.

                                                                    Are you saying that you killed a man with a hand gun, a man who tried to rob you?

                                                                    If yes, tell us the story, the story about the SOB.

                                                                    Oh, and hey, since we're chatting so nicely here, looks like Obama got reelected. (FYI, I voted for Romney.) One thing I saw a lot was people saying that Obama is gonna take away their guns. Is Obama gonna take away your guns? If so, how?

                                                                      #26.13 - Wed Nov 7, 2012 7:16 AM EST
                                                                      Reply

                                                                      Three dead now.

                                                                      • 1 vote
                                                                      Reply#27 - Tue Nov 6, 2012 3:55 PM EST

                                                                      Yes, simplistic, the shooter died, as did another of the victims. I find this tragic. My office is not far from where this occurred this morning. Several local families just had their lives devastated because of this man's actions. These were young adults, likely with young children, working hard to provide for their families and had it all ripped away. Heartbreaking.

                                                                      • 1 vote
                                                                      #27.1 - Tue Nov 6, 2012 7:10 PM EST

                                                                      Don't forget to thank the government and your friendly local parole board

                                                                        #27.2 - Tue Nov 6, 2012 10:26 PM EST
                                                                        Reply

                                                                        Another NRA gangster attack. The NRA promotes the proliferation of handguns in American. This puts guns in the hands of criminal through sales, theft or carelessness. They will claim they teach safety but they are homegrown terrorists who defile our Constitution and soak our flag in the blood of innocent Americans. The NRA stands behind every murderer who uses a gun. They are a murderers best friend.

                                                                        • 1 vote
                                                                        Reply#28 - Tue Nov 6, 2012 4:27 PM EST

                                                                        You have a point, and the NRA 'claims' to have multitudes of members, but do they ever remove you as a member from the 'roles' even though you stop paying the dues?? I haven't paid in 40+ years but I am still a member.

                                                                        • 1 vote
                                                                        #28.1 - Tue Nov 6, 2012 4:31 PM EST

                                                                        Moe - If you spread that post on your garden it will help the plants grow.

                                                                        • 2 votes
                                                                        #28.2 - Tue Nov 6, 2012 5:12 PM EST

                                                                        Okay, I think the NRA is a joke, but I also think this comment is crazy. Do you honestly, deep down inside believe that gangsters are joining the NRA or even give a crap about their 2nd Amendment right? NO, they don't. They are criminals. What rights we afford them do NOT matter to us. They determine what they will and wont do.

                                                                          #28.3 - Tue Nov 6, 2012 5:30 PM EST
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