if he pleaded not guilty, the tax payer would of had to spend tens of millions of dollars on a lengthy trial, laywer fees, court fees, appeals. where as since he pleaded guilty, he skips the trials and tribulations and heads straight to jail.

No way should it have to cost tens of millions of dollars to dispense justice for such an obvious crime.

Jim and OH-

If you want a justice system that works like that, I suggest you move to a different country. The US has a system where both guilty and innocent have rights.

bdjb for common sense

While I am a proponent of the death penalty, in this particular situation, no.

The man had a plea deal with the ultimate understanding that he will never see the outside of the prison walls for the rest of his life. Is it sufficient? Personally, no. However, it does spare the victims and their families the pain that would be endured by seeing, hearing and reliving the events of that day. So from that perspective, it is more than sufficient. Of course, that is predicated on his spending the rest of his life in prison, never to be considered for or permitted to be released.

Besides the 2nd Amendment, I also believe in the rest of that document called the Constitution, and the Bill of Rights. They're all there for a purpose.

Send him to the Florence, CO Fed Prison and in a cell with Unabomber, maybe they can murder each other, lol.

@XDm9mm: The first 10 amendments of the Constitution are considered "The Bill of Rights"; they are not two separate documents.

The idiot is on film> Don't need no witness - Give him one last hurrah for his demented mind. Life sentence; Plural? Do you know how stupid that sounds? Justice is swift and just. Take him quickly to the executioner and be rid of him. 1 week after shooting would have been best, or however long it takes to build a hangman's scaffold. Jurisprudence; which means "the study, knowledge, or
science of law"; in the United States. In my opinion the law isn't to bright, see above.

To all you anti death penalty folks here, thanks for clearly explaining why our death penalty system fails. Just so I understand this correctly I can go out on a shooting rampage and put plenty of people's lives in horrific danger by committing to acts of terrorism and raining hell and chaos down on a civil populace and as long as I make a plea deal I will not only live, but get: a free room, education, communication, a work out facility, sports, and a chance at another type of lifestyle that I can experience till my old age takes me...

Do you see the lunacy in your logic?

The argument that the death penalty should never be used fails on so many levels that I won't even begin to list out the bullet points to the useless perspective the anti death penatly advocates have. Arguments such as countries like Japan do not have the death penalty and their crime rate is one of the lowest in the world. Not that culture or other plethora of variables have anything to do with the low crime rate no ... it is because they do not have a death penalty policy on their books. Not only is that argument completely intellectually dishonest, but ignorant at best as there are other countries in this world that have death penalty policies and also have low crime statistics. So that argument fails right off the line.

This is not about wasting millions of dollars as it shouldn't be. This is about ensuring someone with the mental capacity to inflict severe violence upon ANY society is not only incapacitated permanently but used as an example to show that our society will not allow sick a-holes like Jared Lee Loughner to exist, or even propagate among our society. Some countries need the death penalty, some don't.

We're no where NEAR being a country that could go without the death penalty. Far as I am concerned we are centuries off until that ever should occur.

He should have never made it past the arrest stage.

The victims statements to Loughner will fall on deaf ears as he is mentally ill.Schizophrenic's do not live in a world of reality.He really needs to be kept in a mental health institution for life as no amount of anti psychotics will make him well.The mental health care treatment and laws in this country are shameful.I wouldn't wish this type of mental illness on my worst enemy. the vicious and nasty comments made by the majority of posters proves to one and all that ignorance abounds in regards to mental disorders of the human brain.

Fact: It's cheaper to incarcerate for life than execute. You might want him killed for revenge, but the appeals, trials, further appeals, expert witnesses and court costs are all paid for with tax dollars, and the sums are staggering. Putting him away for life with no possibility of parole is cheaper, and frankly, a far harsher punishment than being put to sleep.

XDm9mm--post #1.5. I agree, what the victims would have to go through in a trial would be horrible too. And saving up the state charges and not using them unless needed down the road is good too--in case some idiot in the future wants to reduce charges or let him out on parole.

doubtful You are so correct. Well sergant, I was exiting the vehicle when I tripped, my weapon accidently discharged strikeing the suspect between the eyes. Accidental shooting take a week off with pay get a little counciling and we'll see ya Monday. Game over.

Just a cleaning lady -- I agree that mental health issues are very misunderstood in this country. Most paranoid schizophrenics are not a danger to others--I know that sounds contradictory to most peoples perception of that particular disease, but it's true. It's a small subset that are dangerous to others. And it's that small subset that scares the bejesus out of everybody--a lot of the comments you see are fueled by fear. And I agree that our treatment of the mentally ill is terrible. There are good programs in the USA, but accessing them is where the challenges are. It's easy for people who suffer from mental illness to fall through the cracks. I do believe that most schizophrenics can become stabilized and rational with the right medication--but Staying stabilized and rational is wholly dependent on the person taking their medication as prescribed--and that is definitely a challenge as well, which is why someone like Lautner needs to be locked up for the rest of his life. And then there is the question of justice for those wounded and murdered, and the protection of possible future victims. The issue of justice and protection does not automatically go away because the perpetrator is schizophrenic. It's a tough issue, to be sure!

instead of enforcing law with Capitol Punishment, they waste their energy trying to outlaw the gun, which is simply a tool

Arizona is one of the most permissive states in reguards to "tools" of that kind. Yet how did that help in this situation? The answer is, it didn't.

Here's an interesting article on one such "armed bystander".

http://www.denverpost.com/nationworld/ci_17109372

For those interested in cost comparisons for execution vs life sentence, here's an interesting article. It includes links to various reports.

http://www.deathpenalty.org/article.php?id=42

The only treatment this piece of scum should get is a heavy dose of lead between the eyes. Hey I fully support the trials process and following the law, innocent til proven guilty, it is paramount to what our country is built on, but when you have clear clean cut evidence like this, multiple witness, shooter caught in the act by law enforcement, on video no less, their should be no doubt as to what needs to be done.

A quick trial and sentencing carried immediately after. The only reason its costs more is because the drawn out process and appeals ect. The actual execution is far cheaper. That is the very problem with the death penalty in our country. Our laws need to be reformed so that when you get a case with overwhelming evidence like this the punishment is swiftly handed out. Yes maybe someday we as a society can move beyond it, I really hope so, but today is not that day.

Now considering how our laws are now, I will accept this punishment because it does prevent drawing this out any further and at least put this POS behind bars. It also allows the families to get on with the healing process.

Personally since they went this route and since he will likely be put on anti psychotic drugs I think they should give him a lobotomy (and castrate him) before locking up, at least save on the cost of the drugs and we can be much more assured he won't be near a threat that he could be now. He's alive isn't he? Never said he could be turned into a walking (and sterilized) vegetable/zombie like person/state.

It is time

I agree. Feeding this piece of trash for the rest of his life is flat out wrong!

Guy should be put to death. Right-wing nutcase, a modified Manchurian Candidate guy, one in a long line of assassins sent out by the right, as with JFK, MLK, RFK. The right-wing wanted to eliminate Giffords, a rising star in the Democratic Party, who had presidential possibilities.

There are to many in this room that are just to shallow. You only think one way. Your so for the death penalty, then you must pro choice? You must love War? And surly your for gun control that would have kept the gun and more importantly the 30 round clip he used? No. I though not.

Here is the problem with the death penalty. Politic's Yes Politic's. This case is cut and dry I agree with that. But this is one in how many? The real problem is DA's are elected. Judges are Elected. DA's are using this position for a steppingstone to bigger and better things. What better way to make a name for your self. Look at the OJ trial. Do you not look at all the men that have proven inanest that were on death row? There are Slam dunk's like this one. But there are so many people that are in jail just because they have no money to defend there self's. These are the facts we have to live with. When we start to give the defense the same amount of money the State has to try a person, then things would be different. But we all know that will never happen. We had a perfect case to look at In IL. The Case was know as the Chicago 7. A case where the DA had 7 guys for killing a little girl. One of the men, Rolando Crews, was in Jail in St Louis, MO. The defense proved that he is there when the girl was killed. Now we know the DA knew this the whole time, but still charged him and he was found guilty. After setting on death row for many years by some act of God he was allowed to go home. The DA was not tried for this. If for no other reason, You have to look at this, and ask your self, Can we trust elected DA's looking to go to higher places with peoples life's ? I think not, O and by the way DA's can't be tried for things like this ever when it is clear they were wrong.

With LIfe in Prison, there shall be more future Massacres in the United States.

No one gets the "message" unless there is Hammurabi's Code: "An Eye For An Eye", A Tooth for A Tooth" Theory.

The Death Penalty is mandatory---McVeigh, Oklahoma chose his demise---Good riddens to all the Killers who prey upon the innocent. They live, the others die, leaving grieving families, and injured victims behind..

Ask them how happy they are with this Sentence?

Beth,

"Arizona is one of the most permissive states in reguards to "tools" of that kind."

You're right about that. Arizona has even been trying to legalize carrying guns on college campuses and in bars. They would be lost here without their guns. The old "Wild West" is still alive and well here in the minds of many Republican legislators.

Beth-440386 - Again, why our legal system fails. The pure fact that someone like JL can appeals over and over is only tantamount to the failure our judicial system is. If there is no fear of death, there is no fear of getting caught and no fear in committing heinous crimes.

We have catered to violent offenders for a very long time and I think no body would argue that crime has dramatically decreased.

It is time we start to go back to the roots of capital punishment.

They saved millions by letting him plead guilty, once you plead guilty you lose all rights to appeal. If they had given him the death penalty it would just make his lawyer rich over a 20-25 yr period. It comes out cheaper in the long run to keep him in prison for the rest of his life. His mental illness will probably overload his behind in the prison system & someone is liable to take him out.

No wonder our country is in a mess when we spend millions incarcerating murders. Those who are against the death penalty should be forced to donate to the up keep of these murders. I bet those who are against the death penalty are the same people who are screaming about government spending and want to gut all entitlements for those whose only crime is to be poor and in need of help. We as a country have our priorities all messed up. Think about it America.

According to reports I have seen the average capital murder case is about 1 million in taxpayer expense. I am sure the death penalty would be cheaper than a lifetime of prison, the food, and associated medical expenses. I saw a story the other day where the taxpayer is about the foot the bill for a prisoner to get a sex change.

The only reason people are able to say that the death penalty costs more than life in prison is because death is because the prisoners get way more special treatment than they should. You don't need a second expense trial when there is ridiculous amount of overwhelming evidence. You don't need a second trial or appeals when the criminal has a life long history of violence against others. Give them death and move on.

All political philosophy aside, the heavily medicated man in the court room was not the man who killed all those people. Though outside of supervision he probably still contains the potential to be that person again he is now likely drugged beyond feeling much of anything. He is a badly broken bag of flesh, to be pitied. He will probably suffer a life time trapped in his own body with a barely suppressed demon to torment him and forced into some dim awareness of his meaningless life. Death will be a mercy for him when it comes.

Kill someone .... plead guilty .... get life sentence without parole .... avoid the electric chair/lethal injection.

I would recommend he stay away from other inmates on the courtyard and in the dining area.

if he pleaded not guilty, the tax payer would of had to spend tens of millions of dollars on a lengthy trial, laywer fees, court fees, appeals. where as since he pleaded guilty, he skips the trials and tribulations and heads straight to jail.

He was caught in the act, right? Why is a not guilty plea even allowed? If he wants to claim insanity then put him down humanely. If he's not crazy then firing squad. If the Feds and State governments are so broke and taxes so high then stop housing and feeding all these mutts. Just the honest opinion of this bleeding heart liberal.

I was in my house, about 1.5 miles from the intersection of Oracle and Ina roads in Tucson when this horrific incident occurred. This person should have been gunned down in the Safeway parking lot by law enforcement. My son is a sheriff's Deputy, and his Academy buddy was one of the first on the scene. If the media hadn't already been there to cover the Giffords event, then the SOB WOULD have left the Safeway property in a body bag. Then all you bleeding heart liberals wouldn't have anything left to whine about... Oh wait, then you would be whining about his civil rights being violated, right?

According to reports I have seen the average capital murder case is about 1 million in taxpayer expense. I am sure the death penalty would be cheaper than a lifetime of prison, the food, and associated medical expenses.

The Death Penalty Information Center study found that death penalty costs can average $10 million more per year per state than life sentences. Increased costs include higher security needs and guaranteed access to an often lengthy pardon and appellate process. The group is an information resource on capital punishment, and opposes its application as unworkable, inefficient and prone to mistakes.

Source CNN "The Cost of the Death Penalty in the US"

Chuck....

post 1.22......

" A case where the DA had 7 guys for killing a little girl. One of the men, Rolando Crews, was in Jail in St Louis, MO. The defense proved that he is there when the girl was killed. Now we know the DA knew this the whole time, but still charged him and he was found guilty."

We have a case here in Mass. where a woman in a lab tasked with testing DNA evidence for the state has admitted to altering and falsely giving positive results in DNA cases and this is why FOR THE MOST PART I am against the death penalty. HOWEVER I cannot for the life of me understand why we as a nation have to be so one way or the other. I am against the death penalty but I WOULD SUPPORT IT IN THIS CASE. There is no doubt, no questionable confession, no questionable evidence HE DID IT and shows no regret or remorse!

I understand why we should as humans be against the death penalty in most cases because of the chance of human error or corruption or career promotion oppotunities! I do not understand why if im against it in most cases that means that criminals like this psychopath should benefit from that. There is no way this animal should be allowed to live to old age. He should be brought to the center of town and stoned to death with the families of the slain being given the chance to throw the first stones (or as many as they choose). We should make the penalty for this heinous crime so horrendous that people(crazy or not) are to fearful of the punishment to even consider commiting the crime.

Again I am against the death penalty in most cases. But I feel that just eliminating that form of punishment altogether because of the afore mentioned reasons just encourages these crimes. This is definetly one of those cases where the death penalty should be enforced. I as a human could not bring myself to tell the family of the victims we spared the life of your relatives murderer to save a few dollars.

The "I am right and you are wrong and there is no middle ground" attitude of the Right and the Left are the problem here. Why can't there be some times when both sides see the others perspective? This animal needs to be put to death and I can only hope (Since we can't do it lawfully) he bleeds to death anally in prison!

To look at him you'd know he is running on empty brain cells; why would you..

Re Wf,

"Then all you bleeding heart liberals wouldn't have anything left to whine about... Oh wait, then you would be whining about his civil rights being violated, right?"

Maybe you should be grateful for "bleeding hearted liberals" because if we had nothing in this country but "hard hearted conservatives", you and your friends and family would be living in a police state. Would you like life in a police state? Maybe you would.

@bdjb for common sense

" ...You see, this is the problem with liberals ..., instead of enforcing law with Capitol Punishment, they waste their energy trying to outlaw the gun, which is simply a tool. If this murderer was killed the same way he killed these people, the resulting effects would have far greater impacts on the behavior of people than outlawing guns"

"...Common sense"??? Hardly. Nonsense best defines your post.

No, a handgun is not "simply a tool." A handgun is a weapon intended for killing or maiming. You however -- who label all others with whom you disagree as problematic "liberals" -- ARE "simply a tool." (<-- you see what I did there?)

:-)

As the late, great, intellectual and authentic conservative, William F. Buckley once cautioned:

"When you move too far to the extreme right, everyone else appears to be 'a leftist'."

PS. You defame Thomas Jefferson by following his image (your avatar), with your consistently right-wing rants. Is that your intent?

just a cleaning lady, Anyone that walks into a gun shop and requested a few extended clips for a 9mm pistol is NOT mentally ill! He's a faking coward!

gee i hate republicans. everyday they prove me correct with their spouting off nonsense. can any of you read!! it costs more money for appeals process!!! quit saying that its cheaper to kill him you idiots cus right now with our system it isnt you savage beasts! you guys can look straight at something and see only what you want to see. complain about the appeals process that is a part of our countries laws in the criminal justice system you banshees. do you realize the people in your party include the dumbest people in the country like the south? maybe you are proud to vote for the same things as the toothless bayou people but that fact alone would tell me i was in the wrong party. you never ever learn do you. o yeah and fuc* romney. peace

I agree with the sentence of life plus 140 years; killing him is to good, it is over in seconds; life in prison is hell, since he is also a mental case, after he is released from the prison hospital, he will be held in a separate solitary cell, let out one hour per day to exercise in a prison enclosure, I hope he lives a long life in that hell hole.

bdjb for common sense

If this murderer was killed the same way he killed these people, the resulting effects would have far greater impacts on the behavior of people than outlawing guns.

1. No one is trying to outlaw guns. You probably should read something besides the NRA Newsletter.

2. I believe in capital punishment for a completely different reason. No I do not believe it's a deterrent. If I feel strongly enough to kill someone...they're dead and the punishment is of no concern. I believe we need to upgrade our laws. Guilty beyond reasonable doubt - Life without parole. Guilty beyond doubt - death penalty.

3. Hanging, drawing and quartering William Wallace did not deter the Scots from going back to war with the English. And that's a hell of a lot nastier than lethal injection... clearly doesn't work.

Ol doc:

I don't read the NRA materials either, but all the gun control in the world will not stop the killings - just look at the Massacres in Germany and Norway - far more people died in those slayings. And Europe tightly controls the guns - and the lives - of their citizenry. Furthermore the September 11 atrocities were also done without firearms.

The problem is Loughner was a man consumed by evil. He was the one who pulled the trigger, not Brewer (who I detest), not the NRA, not anyone else but Loughner himself. I don't think it is appropriate to bring politics into a sentencing hearing - ever.

Evil is the enemy, Not Democrats, Not Republicans, Not Libertarians, Not the Socialists, and not even the Guelphs - If any of that party are still alive - are the problem - the problem is evil in other people - not the people themselves.

@Winker-2891142 Why don't you shut up and not be rude to people who know that God consecrates all human life as sacred before birth?

@ Ashp:

Apparently you are not a Democrat: but I have news for you. Not all Republicans are bad - some are good: Does that mean you hate Martin Luther King Junior? do you hate General Powell? You sound more like a Nazi than anything....

And I am not a Republican, either.....

Grow UP!!!!

Its astounding, if someone slipped into our time from another they wouldn't be able to comprehend the argument of people saying you Libs or you Tea baggers..WE will never get along that is why we have Loughner's.

We're all in this boat ride together If we don't come together on this common ground we to will fail.

All we need is love..

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/09/24/suicide-leading-cause-death-us_n_1909772.html

why is everyone on here so crazy and full of @!$%#!!!! then democrats are so insane that it is pathetic!! they are so two faced and stupid! they are supposed to be liberal etc. i do not understand why anybody would put loughner behind bars for a few little crimes and is completely nothing compared to obull-@!$%#ter obama!!!! why is it that one gets punished and the other like obull-@!$%#ter obama in which is an illegal alien, a murderer in which he has helped kill far more people than loughner ever could!! a liar who only blows out hot air all the time, burned our american flag before he took office and invaded our white house, is a communist, a money thief far worse than bernie maddolf ever will be along with his secret boyfriend/ @!$%# buddy!! in which is eric holder( the attorney general) is a muslim and we all know the muslims hate america and are full of bull@!$%# too!! and also haters of america and savages period!!but most of you here voted for a bull@!$%#ter to invade our white house and america, and trust me...... hell is here for america!!!! most of you on here will be there in hell before 2016!!!! so i guess it does not matter anyway!!!! you all are too stupid to even pull this up to witness obull-@!$%#ter obama admitting that he is not worthy of the presidency of my united states of america!! i dare you to key in "truth matters" on your computer. also look up the name; james david manning on google!!! i am not a bigot, nor am i a racist of any sort!! i am proudly half white and half american indian in which my mother was full blooded cherokee and my father was mixed with black irish, german and other bloods too! and james david manning is a black man!!! so i dare any of you ignorant black @!$%#s and white @!$%#s on here to look either of the two up on google!! too all of the @!$%#s who voted for obull-@!$%#ter obama!!!! you brought hell to your own door!! just wait what @!$%# obull-@!$%#ting obama has in store for you!!! he fooled you once!!! shame on him!! now he's fooled you twice and now you will burn in hell!!!! oh!! do not complain about anything here in the united states of america anymore either!! you should be happy!!! you @!$%# won his demonizing race and won!! so now you get to burn in hell with him and lucifer and all the dark demons that will and are coming to get you!! most of you will never see 2016!!!!

So my question is to all of you on here IS????? Why is obull-@!$%#ting obama still walking FREE after all of the CRIMES HE has COMMITTED!!!!????? All of you on here, need to quit worrying about LOUGHNER and worrying what is AHEAD for YOU NOW!!!! So why is THIS CRIMINAL obama still walking around FREE!!!??

T.R. Hendricks

Evil is the enemy, Not Democrats, Not Republicans, Not Libertarians, Not the Socialists, and not even the Guelphs - If any of that party are still alive - are the problem - the problem is evil in other people - not the people themselves.

Sorry, that's far to esoteric for my tastes. Evil is not in my opinion, a stand alone entity just hanging around looking for some good person to infect. Nature does not create evil...man creates evil and blaming a god or a devil is simply a cop-out.

Also I don't believe groups invent evil, nor do they force evil upon individuals...but their words and actions can sure as hell encourage evil acts.

"Tell me what company you keep and I'll tell you what you are."
~ Miguel de Cervantes

Following is the list of the countries currently practicing Capital Punishment (Death Penalty):

Belarus • Botswana • China (PRC) • Cuba • Egypt • India • Indonesia • Iran • Iraq • Malaysia • Mongolia • North Korea • Pakistan • United States of America

Countries which carried-out the most executions between 2007-2011:

China,

Iran,

North Korea,

Yemen,

United States of America

---------------------------------------------------------

Following is a partial list of the countries which have abolished Capital Punishment, by law or in practice (139 countries in total)

Australia · Austria · Belgium · Bhutan · Brazil · Bulgaria · Canada · Denmark · France · Germany · Hungary · Ireland · Israel · Italy · Liechtenstein · Mexico · Netherlands · New Zealand · Norway · Poland · Portugal · Romania · Russia · San Marino · South Africa · Spain · Sweden · Switzerland · Turkey · United Kingdom

* 109 additional countries have also outlawed the Death Penalty
* 9 additional countries have outlawed the Death Penalty for ordinary crimes.
* 34 additional countries have a de facto ban on the Death Penalty (no executions carried out in past 15 to 62 years)

“Keep company with good men, and you will increase their number”
~ Italian Proverb

The United States of America needs to determine how it will define itself in the eyes of the civilized world for the 21st century; because the civilized world will be judging us by the company we keep.

I love how anti-DP advocates keep bringing up money as the flawed component.

If it's an issue about money then we need to change the system. Who in their right mind would actually allow appeals after appeals, year after year, decade after decade, for someone who was convicted beyond reasonable doubt? If we started taking death row inmates and executing them weeks after the conviction I would say there goes the money argument right out the door. And then what are we left with? The argument that the DP is not a deterrent... well of course not, criminals will always be criminals but at least with the DP there will be FAR less of them either getting out this year, or walking among our society.

Don T.,

"do not complain about anything here in the united states of america anymore either!! you should be happy!!! you @!$%# won his demonizing race and won!! so now you get to burn in hell with him and lucifer and all the dark demons that will and are coming to get you!! most of you will never see 2016!!!!"

I hope you don't mind my saying so, but I think you have completely taken leave of your senses.

Mickey-1983943 - Anyone speaking like that lacks any sense at all.

And in my opinion should seek professional help immediately.

Borderlands,

"Anyone speaking like that lacks any sense at all.

And in my opinion should seek professional help immediately."

I hope you are referring to Don T. by that remark and not to me. I'll assume you mean Don T. Otherwise I would have to conclude that you are so racist yourself that you consider racism healthy and normal. I would prefer to think that is not the case.

I think the case could be made that anyone who kills another, is not normal. Then if you're not normal, you're insane. So, no one should be punished, right?

Wrong! We are hung up on old religious doctrines. Forget what religions say, if a person is dangerous to society, then put him down, just like we do to a rabid dog.

@Borderlands

" ... Who in their right mind would actually allow appeals after appeals, year after year, decade after decade, for someone who was convicted beyond reasonable doubt? If we started taking death row inmates and executing them weeks after the conviction I would say there goes the money argument right out the door. And then what are we left with? The argument that the DP is not a deterrent... well of course not, criminals will always be criminals but at least with the DP there will be FAR less of them either getting out this year, or walking among our society."

'Borderlands', what is your response to the many wrongful convictions and death sentences which are corrected by the appeals process which you disparage?

And what is your response to the 292 persons (so far) -- 17 of whom were already on death row awaiting execution -- who were "convicted beyond reasonable doubt" had been "allowed appeals after appeals, year after year, decade after decade", lost all of those appeals ... but were never-the-less innocent?

Those 292 human beings were not subsequently shown to be innocent because the legal system worked, and protected the innocent, but rather due to the actions of just one, small, independent non-profit group called "the Innocence Project", made up primarily of Law Students.

The several states were fully prepared to carry out those death sentences, prepared to kill those 17 human beings who were wrongfully convicted, were innocent of the crimes for which they received a sentence of death until this one small, independent group filed amicus briefs and inserted itself into those cases.

The entire legal system of trial and appeals failed in these many, many cases. How many more wrongful convictions and death sentences have not yet been corrected, and may not be?

Should we just ignore the implication of this for our society? Should our society continue to be so hell-bent on applying the Old Testament maxim "an eye for an eye" -- even though because of our imperfect system of justice we know "beyond a reasonable doubt" that we will put to death innocent human beings from time to time?

Should we just label those innocent human beings we execute as "collateral damage" to some greater societal goal, ... "Oh well. Whatever. No big deal. Out of sight out of mind."

What sort of society would do something like that? What then of that other Old Testament maxim, Commandment VI: "Thou shalt not kill."

If an execution of any human being is carried out in the United States of America for a crime which that person did not commit, ...how would that execution not meet the definition of "premeditated murder", committed in our name?

Hey ASHP...before you cut down people on being dumb perhaps you should do a spell check and go back to a few grammar classes.

About Don T: This is why some of our "Smart reporting fair and balanced" conservative news stations need to tone it down and take a little responsibility for the garbage they are putting out. Some people out there are really vulnerable such as the murderer in this article among others.

Bubba done good today. He got more than just a temporary shower b/tch. He done got hisself a full time prison WIFE! And he sure does like Loughner's purrty little smile in his po-leese pic !

All of you against capital punishment should also be against the military, as they are armed and kill people. Sometimes unfortunately by mistake,but that is few and far between. I will not ask the protectors of my country not to kill, even if for the greater good innocents are killed. Better safe than sorry. In this case as in recent others on film leave no doubt. Barbecue his butt. Justice system needs to catch-up to common sense.

Don T .. please go back on your medications before you hurt someone.

Thank you.

Everytime we have this conversation some say kill hi some say life is a just punishment for their crimes. Over 80% of you claim you are christians or from some other faith that believes in god and the ten commandments. well one of those commandments says simply thou shalt not kill! Does not say except the government has the right to execute those who stray from the path of right and commit crimes etc. Thats why we call our society a secular one and not a religious one.

Don T is not going to hurt anyone he is a loser who hides behind a keyboard and is a sick human being.

This man should be put to death, anything less belittles the value of the lives he took.

God bless the family's, and the loved ones they lost.

IMHO,

"Put him away forever."

I agree, but I think that is what the sentence of seven consecutive life terms, followed by 140 years in prison that the deal the article mentioned means, i.e. putting him away forever. Unless he somehow miraculously manages to live that long in which case, I suppose, we really ought to bow down and worship him. :)

Where he is going he will still be taking his chances.Death still happens in all the wrong places.Keep him in isolation in a padded cell, they did say he is very sick right? One hour exercise a day and don't forget the spork, make sure to get that back after every meal. But lets give him something interesting to watch. Like Saturday morning cartoons and kids coloring books with five crayons. No need to give Internet access, daily news or other icing on the cake privileges. Why should criminals like him live better then the poorest on the streets out in society?

His brain is so screwed up he probably doesn't care if he's in jail or not. It's probably all the same in his messed up mind.

The man was obviously very sick. He and Giffords belonged to the same synagogue, which precludes the action as a hate crime. There is really no apparent motive.

RalphH,

"The man was obviously very sick."

Yes, he was diagnosed as paranoid schizophrenic. That can be dangerous because if you think everyone is out to get you, I guess you have to get them first before they get you.

It's Uncle Fester!

Ralph H, and the reason this character does not get the death penalty, where everyone else in arizona would have received the death penalty for the same action. He was jewish. Different set of rules for jews in arizona for sure.

Well, they say that life imprisonment is cheaper than death row because of all of the super expensive appeals that are allowed for death row inmates.

America is a nightmare. All I ever hear about is the great freedom here, but all I ever see or experience here is hostility, Nazism, discrimination, and restrictions of every kind imaginable. Reading about this kid makes me jump to the conclusion that he was totally out of his mind...most of his statements totally didn't make sense. On the other hand, knowing what I know about American society, I don't know what this kid had to endure from others over his lifetime. Continual social harassment can do horrible things to people...blacks are lucky today...because, in the past, folks could do anything to them and if they responded to that harassment they could have been labelled, "crazy n****rs." "Schizophrenia" is a term thrown out for just about anything...I think oftentimes it is used for anyone deemed awkward or nervous. While I believe this kid needed some help in the past, I don't think America had any real help to offer him.

Parade him around sounds like you have ideas other than justice, putting him to death would be justice.

Keeping him alive sounds like other idea's are at work, after all with all those witnesses he is guilty. He was caught in the act, so death is what he should get.

Now if I wanted to use him as a tool to push an agenda then, keeping something to parade around makes alot of sense.

Spend a week where he is going and you will know what you are talking about. The life sentance is costly but the most miserable life you can give a pos like this. He deserves every day of pain........

Does that mean you're going to quit your job and volunteer to be his roomie? I mean, if it's as luxurious a life as you're making it out to be...

Seven and Fox--great comments!

we have had enough -- I LOVE that icon of yours--looks like one too many botox treatments!

Wow indeed. I think you need a little education on the "super max" prison system.

The following is from a report done by the New York City Bar exam ... just the introduction. You can follow the link if you wish to read more.

"These prisoners endure conditions of extreme sensory deprivation for months or years on end, an excruciating experience in which the prisoner remains isolated from any meaningful human contact. Access to a telephone, books, magazines, radio, television, even sunlight and outside air may be denied or severely restricted." (http://www2.nycbar.org/pdf/report/uploads/20072165-TheBrutalityofSupermaxConfinement.pdf)

The report estimates as many as 80,000 are held in prisons such as those.

Yep -- sounds like he won the "entitlement sweepsstakes" to me!

Of course, it's what he deserves ... a fate worse than death.

The problem here is that the taxpayers were totally inocent and they also will be paying for the rest of the time they live also.

I guess you call that collateral Damage

Seven2Seven - Have you seen our prison systems lately? Did you know that in most modern prison systems an inmate can actually call for a corrections officer if he runs out of toilet paper? Most get televisions in their cells and add to that education, work out facilities, free medical, food, board...

Other than the company it is far from the miserable atmosphere you're making it out to be. Now if he was sent to say... a Mexican prison especially being the gringo he is THEN I would agree with you without a doubt.

Borderlands, why don't you and the others who think prison is such a great place volunteer to be locked up for a year as a case study and then you can write a book about how jail is like a vacation resort. San Quentin, Florence Super Max, Marion, Rikers Island or Maricopa County Tent City would be some nice places for you to go to. New York, California, Colorado and Arizona are all states that people go to for vacations. The prisons must be like a Princess Resort.

Please stop sounding so stupid. You, and the others, would wet your pants and cry for your mommy if you had to go to prison. And that would just be the first day. Why do you think prisoners risk their lives trying to escape? Why do you think prisoners make appeal after appeal to try and get out of prison? Because they are hell holes, that's why. Losing your freedom, being locked in a cage and living among the most sick, violent, twisted and perverted people in the country is not a "nice" place to be.

As far as America being one of the most violent countries in the world, all you have to do is read comments on here by some of the people. Take him out and shoot him in the head. Torture him and videotape it. People that espouse that attitude are only one step away from the murderers. It makes no sense to have more killing, as in an execution, after a horrible killing has already been committed. More violence is not the answer to stop violence. Some people just don't get it.

So instead of dealing with a piece of garbage that was guilty beyond any possible doubt, we spend millions on the trial, and will spend tens of thousands (if not hundreds of thousands) caring for this ****stain for the rest of his life (who may end up in a mental facility as a patient, and not even as a prisoner). That's the humane, just, righteous, culturally advanced course of action, is it? Spare me that pretentious bull****. People are starving to death all over the world, dying of easily treated diseases, and that kind of money could save dozens if not hundreds of innocent lives at the very least.

Wake up, look at the big picture. You're paying for a mass murderer to live out his days while people overseas die, and you're actually defending that system. Is it because those people overseas aren't white and are beneath aid, or is it because you're so comfy and disconnected from actual events that you don't realize people are suffering unless MSN and Fox sends you a picture?

They already have such a law "the Baker act" but if they are smart enough to fool the dr's they let them back out. I have a SIL like him we have baker acted her so many times they get smart to it & fool the dr's & sign themselves out.

As a schizophrenic lady once told me "I'm sane and I have the court papers to prove it."

She may have been correct but she was also off her meds and all the way off the deep end.

In my neck of the woods it's called a 302. You go to a hospital and fill out the form on an individual who is in need of forced treatment. Once it is approved by someone from the county government you take the paperwork to local law enforcement and they pick up the person in question and escort them to the hospital.

The person is then remanded to a psyche ward for a minimum of ten days for evaluation. It's true that most mentally ill people can play the system and be released back into the populace. If Loughners' shrink or parents had done this, there might not have been any crime committed at all. Killing this guy will not bring bring back those he killed and it won't afford the other victims any comfort either. Those who seek revenge must dig two graves. One for the target and one for themselves. Life in prison isn't the country club some have painted it to be and Loughner will live out the rest of his existence in misery.

This is absolutely a shameful day for America.We have now stooped as low as countries such as China.The man did a horrible thing but he is mentally ill and belongs in a mental health hospital for life,not prison.Kelly and Gifford have the political clout to advocate for better mental health access and treatment.

Being in prison will mean nothing to a person who suffers from a mental disorder.Please educate yourself on schizophrenia.It could affect you or a family member somewhere down the road.

Exactly cleaning lady, most who suffer from accute schizophrenia wake up in a differant world with new friends every morning. Some may be imaginary friends but new friends. Shh did you hear that shh there talking to me.

zapain,If you are fed up with the lack of adequate mental health care in this country then contact your stat representatives.And while doing so remind them that Ronald Reagan's patience rights act has lead to many crimes such as this.

Funny how Regan still gets the blame for something that started long before he was president.

With the recent Arizona shootings by a mentally deranged person, the revisionist history of Ronald Reagan and his so called "closing down the mental health system" during his reign as governor in California has popped up again. The real story is Reagan had not turned from the dark side when he was governor, and instituted the changes in the mental health system at the behest of progressive reformers of the time.

The blaming Ronald Reagan for destruction the mental heath system is typical progressive revisionists history. By the late 1960s, the idea that the mentally ill were not so different from the rest of us, or perhaps were even a little bit more sane, became trendy. Reformers dreamed of taking the mentally ill out of the large institutions and housing them in smaller, community-based residences where they could live more productive and fulfilling lives. Simultaneously, the ACLU was pushing a mental health patients right agenda that resulted in O'Connor v. Donaldson (see below) In 1967, Gov. Ronald Reagan signed the Lanterman-Petris-Short Act (LPS), which went into effect in 1969 and quickly became a national model. Among other things, it prohibited forced medication or extended hospital stays without a judicial hearing. The Governor signed a bill inspired by those who clamored for the "civil rights" of the mentally ill to be on the street and who claimed they'd be better off with community counseling.

So no, Reagan, didn't close mental hospitals or put anyone on the street. Progressive views on mental health, a misguided ACLU, and politicians who "know better" did it. Then finally (the last year Reagan was governor), O'Connor v. Donaldson, 422 U.S. 563 (1975), the Supreme Court found a constitutional right to liberty for mental health patients: "There is...no constitutional basis for confining such persons involuntarily if they are dangerous to no one." With this constitutional recognition, the practice of mental health law became a process of limiting and defining the power of the state to detain and treat. The result was a codification of mental health rights that have done away with non-voluntary commitment except in extreme cases.

http://onespeedbikerpolitico.blogspot.com/2011/01/revisionist-history-meantal-health.html

The Community Mental Health Act of 1963 (CMHA) (also known as the Community Mental Health Centers Construction Act, Mental Retardation Facilities and Construction Act, Public Law 88-164, or the Mental Retardation and Community Mental Health Centers Construction Act of 1963) was an act to provide federal funding for community mental health centers in the United States. This legislation was passed as part of John F. Kennedy's New Frontier. It led to considerable deinstitutionalization.

In 1955, Congress passed the Mental Health Study Act, leading to the establishment of the Joint Commission on Mental Illness and Mental Health. That Commission issued a report in 1961,[1] which would become the basis of the 1963 Act.[2]

...The CMHA proved to be a mixed success. Many patients, formerly warehoused in institutions, were released into the community. However, not all communities had the facilities or expertise to deal with them.[3] In many cases, patients wound up in adult homes or with their families, or homeless in large cities,[4][5] but without the mental health care they needed.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Community_Mental_Health_Act

zapain, I'm tired of reading comments by people who have no clue as to what mental health issues are all about.If you really want to see less of these occurrances then advocate for the mentally ill.

I said "murderers" not "mentals"!! If the guy consented to a plea deal, then he understood what he did, ipso facto, he's not "mental"!

Don't recall saying anything about mental health care. READ CAREFULLY BEFORE YOU POST A REPLY!!

jackieboy:: If one of my relatives were to do something like that, he should get what is coming to him even if it is a lethal injection. But then, I don't have any relatives who would go blooey and shoot up a crowd-- and I sure don't have any that look as looney as that guy does.

I guess you are ready and willing to support him for the rest of his life.

Jackieboy, On the black market green money is all you need. No ID, no background checks, nothing. Green money and here's your gun. And yes, if one of my relatives killed people like that I'd still be in favor of the death penalty over feeding and protecting him for life in a prison.

I don't have any relatives who would go blooey and shoot up a crowd

That you know of.

Nothing personal, but you have no idea what their triggers are. Maybe one is hiding a chemical imbalance in their brain from the rest of the family.

I guess you are ready and willing to support him for the rest of his life.

Support him? No. Support the system that is removing him from society? Yes.

Susie,Should mentally ill people be executed?What would stop our society from executing anybody who was less than perfect?

cleaning lady:

We'd have a lot less debt, less prisons, and safer streets - for a start.

I'd add lower taxes and lower crime while I'm at it.

Warehousing wastes of carbon such as this one only drags us down and weakens us.

Willie,the correct word for this man's mental illness is called schizophrenia.Nuts are a product that you eat.Schizophrenia is a disorder of the brain.

XDm9mm,He will no doubt be placed in a facility for the mentally disordered.I can't fathom how many people do not understand anything about this disorder.It strikes many people and is often not diagnosed until one is in their 20's.

OK cleaning lady. I've been watching you defend him based on "mental illness" for quite a while now. I will grant "mental illness". But I'll ALSO say that he is responsible for the deaths of those people. He is a MURDERER, "mental illness" or not.

Yes, we need more emphaisis on treatment in this country, but we also should not excuse people committing crimes for it either.

Beth - yep, it's being used as an excuse.

Why?

Actress? She was a US Congresswoman from AZ, and why does it matter how she voted.

Now that would be cruel and unusual punishment for a group of innocent people. I don't want to see him close up or far off in the distance. I want him put somewhere dark where no one will ever have to see those maniacal eyes again.

lawful1,Funny that you should say that he should be locked up someplace dark.Our politicians have created the mental health laws and lack of mental health facilities which indicates to me that many in our society are actually in the dark when it comes to mental health issues.

Oh my GOSH, Kimber! (FoxTrotsky hangs head in shame.) I have been bested by a master of sophisticated political rhetoric. Surely my life is over.

Seriously, in that very short response you've managed to encapsulate the entire Republican style of discourse: 1. Divert/deflect. 2. Utterly meaningless and incomprehensible change of subject. 3. Deliver nasty but immature personal insult. 4. Leave original question unanswered as you chuckle over your own cleverness.

But since you asked... yeah, I did miss that show; I must have been busy reading a book. Speaking of which, Kimber- for the words in my response that you don't understand, just ask a Liberal friend to borrow their dictionary. They'll be happy to help; we Liberals are always pro- education... even for those on whom it's clearly a waste of effort. Peace!

WomenOnguard,You are yet another poster who doesn't realize that this man does not care about the things you covet.He suffers from schizophrenia and they do not live in reality.

Domestic terrorist Timothy McVeigh who bombed a federal building in Oklahoma City was executed 6 years after the bombing.

Jawzee, Thats because he gave up on all the remaining appeals he could have used. Had he continued to fight he might still be alive. I personally am glad that he gave up the process. He was an evil human being.

As for Laughtner, medicated, he is as sane as the rest of us, and understands the process that he pled to.

As for "Just A Cleaning Lady" she sounds like a very compassionate lady, however, this guy knows what he did, and the punishment he now must face. Under medication he is as normal as you or me, otherwise, by law he could not have pled guilty.

How about we set pay scale for lawyers on appeal cases. 10 dollars an hour.

No, the point is that none of it would have happened if Loughner hadn't been fixated on assassinating Giffords. Thus making him "Giffords' Gunman". He wasn't there to shoot the 'little people', he was there to kill her and then wreak as much havoc as possible.

ProFreedom,the media has forgotten that Gaby was not the only victim.She was however in a political position to try and get the patients rights act changed.

So, what would you suggest? Will you offer to bring Jared Loughner into your home? Maybe you'd prefer Charles Manson. How about Ted Bundy. If he was alive, would you like Jeffrey Dahmer as a boarder?

I'm curious as to what YOU would suggest. There are some people who are just evil.

I think this subhuman sack of monkey dung is not worth the price of a bullet to the back of his head, and his illness is his problem, not mine or anyone else's. He will always be a danger to society, and if released from prison, will then resume his homicidal ways. Nobody cares if he is "mentally ill", and being so is not an excuse for what he did. He needs to die, and as quickly as possible. Hopefully, someone in the joint will shank him, and that will be the end of it. The person who does so should be granted immediate parole, and given a substantial amount of money as a reward.

LizaNull: How? A bullet to the brain. If you like, you could extract his brain like a fetus.

LizaNull,thank you for your post.I was beginning to think that there weren't any educated people left on this forum.Mental illness is not preventable and only treatable if the patient is willing,which most of these other people are clueless to those facts.Again thank you for your educated post.

It would appear, cleaning lady, if they knew that mental illness was treatable, they would be doing something about their own.

I wonder if his parents tried to sneak his medication to him? I also wonder if they were afraid of him and that's why they let him live with them. They gave him money and let him build a shrine to satan in their back yard, they had to know what he could do and were scared.

Wow - I sure wish I was as smart as you is there Liza-baby. There are those of us who understand that while an individual may be legally insane - they can still be punished for their crimes. Now if that makes me IGNORANT - then I guess I am IGNORANT. However - at least some of us IGNORANT folks like seeing some kind of justice - even if the perpatrator of the crime is insane. I personally, despite the apparent fact that I am IGNORANT, would like there to be some sort of plea to the effect of "insane but responsible" with appropriate punishment like life or even death. To someone as IGNORANT as me - I don't really care that someone can (legitimately or not) say they are not responsible for their actions. I have a one or two word response to that - it depends if bull and sh!t when combined represent one word or two - course if I wasn't so IGNORANT - I'd probably know that. But for know - I'll just treat Liza like the intelluctually superior individual that she evidently feels that she is and thank her for stooping down here with the proletariat. And with that said turn around Liz (sic) I've got a use for you - besides - you ain't got nuthin better to do and I'm bored.

Liza - step up and rent your spare bedroom to this man or another like him!

Mentally ill and dangerous can go hand in hand. What's your solution?

Remember what happened to Mcmurphy in "One flew over the cuckoo's nest"? That is how the US medical system fixed troubled offenders in the 1970's. LizaNull yours is a good idea, lets stick a screwdriver in his brain and whoosh it around.

He was there to assassinate Giffords and then cause general mayhem. That makes him "Giffords' gunman". If she hadn't been there that day, neither would he have.

mabok,You are correct.He is being made out a criminal due to a mental illness that he had no choice of suffering from.Gifford on the other hand could have advocated for mental health care laws and treatment facilities.There were other victims and I suggest all victims of crimes committed by the mentally disordered should contact their representatives and advocate for better mental health care treatment facilities and better laws that will prevent the mentally ill from going to prison.

Get back to mopping floors, justacleaninglady, as that is probably the only thing you are competent at. You strident advocacy of better mental health treatment as some sort of panacea for the actions of certifiable loons like this filthy piece of murdering subhuman garbage makes me think you probably also have some whacko family members who should be getting treatment, possibly yourself.

You think he should get a "Get out of jail free" card because he supposedly can't control his actions to the point where he wantonly murdered several innocent human beings without hesitation or remorse? You think there should be no consequences to him other than taking pills in the hope that he won't do this again, which is ludicrously unlikely? Of all the psych patients who are not compliant in taking their meds, schizos are among the worst, and society suffers repeatedly and terribly when the loonies commit acts of violence like this.

Sorry, but failed human beings like this scum face deserve to be taken out of circulation for the rest of their natural lives, whether it be via execution or imprisonment until the day they die. They deserve it, and society deserves to be protected from whacked-out sacks of monkey crap like this filthy piece of garbage. If it were a member of my family killed by him, and it was ever possible for him to get released, on the day he stepped out the door, I would shoot him dead, using as many rounds as the clip holds. Then I would laugh myself to sleep every night for the rest of my life.

Jared Loughner is not a human being, never was, and never will be. He is an unpredictable killing machine, whose depraved mind somehow justifies his randomly murderous thoughts and actions. His very existence is an affront to all who were killed or wounded, their families and friends, and the whole of decent society, and you attempt at excusing his depravity is so disgusting it defies description. You probably also think they should have let Charlie Manson, John Wayne Gacy, and Jeffrey Dahmer walk, because they "didn't know what they were doing".

What a load of utter crap. They all knew exactly what they were doing, and did it for reasons that satisfied and pleased them, and they should all burn in hell for eternity after being dispatched from this mortal world quickly. Unfortunately, that doesn't always happen, but every once in a while, as the late Mr. Dahmer can tell you, karma comes calling. Too bad it isn't more frequently.

Sorry to correct you .... but his target was Giffords, and the others were in the wrong place at the wrong time.... which was very sad. That is who he is referred to here in Tucson.

ElsonL.White,what part of our Patients Rights Act and schizophrenia don't you understand?

Eldon:

There are many reasons that Thailand has a lower crime rate than the U.S, the least one being their justice system. The reasons are sociological and cultural, and are directly tied to the collective nature of their culture and their value system.

Not to mention their weekly live TV broadcasts of the public executions every Thursday night.

Schizophrenia, my ass!

He had the presence of mind to know how to go to where that rally was being held, aim a gun, and pull the trigger multiple times!!!

He needs to executed with a firing squad to know what it feels like to be shot!!

Actually the US government does not have a say in what happens in each individual state in regards to the death penalty since our Constitution allows each state to make their own rules. Even in states that support the death penalty, there is sometimes a provision that allows a defendant to plead guilty to the charge in exchange for life in prison. It is not necessarily a liberal or conservative issue but whatever the justice system in that State has chosen. Whether you agree with that or not is a moot point since you not directly affected by the outcome. Either way, it is an expense to the state.

This is not meant to be insulting to anyone else. It was an attempted assassination. Just because the primary target did not actually die (and others did) does not invalidate the fact that there was a primary target. Thus the label.

This was an "attempted" assassination? Excuse me, but it was a successful assassination. Loughner had repeatedly sent death threats to the Republican federal judge whom he shot and killed on that day. Somehow the Democrat-loving media forgets that little detail...