So sorry for the families loss. How can that many people succumb to carbon monoxide poisoning without some one feeling the effects?

@ clarkjoebob

I thought it said it was not an accident? "Deaths of five in Toledo, Ohio garage do not appear accidental"

Hellooooo - did you read the headline or the article? This wasn't an accident. That means it was intentional. "Someone feeling the effects" is moot. Plus - why would anyone wonder if there was a carbon monoxide detector in the home (last line of the article)??? These people died in the garage - and again - it wasn't an accident. Tragedy. Compounded by stupidity.

They hauled 3 dead mexicans from a house they were working on out here in the L.A. area not long ago. They were using a gasoline powered air compressor indoors. It didnt look like any of them had a clue.

If you have issues please go gas yourself in the woods alone. Don't take Grandma and the kids with you. I am tired about reading about kids getting murdered with family members.

You are an IDIOT Steamie2010 to try and put a political "rant" on this yourself. You are disgusting when there are 3 innocent children that died.

We don't know if Grandma was the instigator. She might have been.

clarkjoebob

.... How can that many people succumb to carbon monoxide poisoning without some one feeling the effects?

The people who died probably felt a bit of a headache, and were very sleepy. Everyone alive, who is involved in the investigation, or knew the people are feeling the effects.

Schmeckt, comprehension is your friend. The article said there was a custody battle between the grandmother and her daughter, the mother of the children, who was in the process of regaining custody. smh

Hey IXLR8 From what i read it sounds like grandma did the murders, and suicide. Thedaughter was trying to get custody of her kids back, not kill them.

Maybe they all agreed, including the children, to go together. There must have been a very good reason why Grandma had custody of the kids for four years, and now the mother wanted them back? Very sensitive!

And the mother probably was dragging along a good for nothing, insensitive step father for those kids, too!

Yet more children dead at the hands of someone who should have just taken themselves only out of the picture. How someone could look at the face of an innocent child and take their life in the next moment.....no reason or explanation is sufficient. In this case, selfishness seems to be one cause. If the grandmother was so against the mother of the children regaining custody, she should have tried to continue pleading her case through the courts but apparently, KILLING THE CHILDREN seemed to be, in her mind, the way to go. Jesus wept.

For those who would remark about the Jesus wept comment.....it's just a phrase, don't get your knickers all twisted. It is not meant to be an admission or belief of my (PRIVATE) thoughts about religion. Thank you.

Also, to those that want to talk, argue, whatever, about the election, there are PLENTY of other threads going for that. This article is about DEAD CHILDREN since you all do not seem to be aware of that fact. At least, have some scintilla of sympathy for this loss. Who is the person that is so unmoved by the death, no matter the cause, of a child? I would tell you but that would involve some very ugly verbiage which would be highly inappropriate right now.

...but why take the dogs and cat with them?!

Goodness, not much different than a suicide attack by a terrorist, is it?

Those poor kids. I wonder how the uncle fit into all this.

Not to be callous, but what does a carbon monoxide detector have to do with the price of eggs in Egypt? would it really matter if the house had one in this instance?

So sad that they had to take the children with them. If you are going to do a "murder-suicide" - start with the suicide first.

Lots of comprehension issues on this board, goodness. The exhaust from the truck was hooked into the civic full of adults, kids AND pets. No where does it mention an accident.

Here is the article in the local paper, now you can end the theory it is a republican.

http://www.toledoblade.com/Police-Fire/2012/11/13/5-found-dead-in-West-Toledo-police-suspect-murder-suicide.html

This is so sad. Agree with the posters above who say if you are stupid enough to wanna go ahead and commit suicide, fine but don't take others with you. Not to mention taking the lives of kids and pets. Unbelieveable!

Probably some religious wackos that thought they could "move the family to heaven".

Between the mother and the grandmother, these poor kids never had a chance.

I think the Dad had the kids and the mother couldn't get them back Grandma and uncle wanted no part of it they both checked out,wished they'd left the kids alone..

"Why not wait until you have a few more facts so the story may be properly conveyed"

Because someone else will break the story first.

I spent 26 years working in media. I can not believe how poorly written stories are today. In haste to be first, most are half-assed written and lacking many details. So disappointing.

Mrs. Georgia Peech (Peech?); they got us to respond didn't they? Every click on a link is money in their pocket.

It could be that they think things are so bad that the children should be relieved from having to deal with them.

Hey alghourd why r u reading this lib rag? If u really don't like it

Tomvet...you beat me to it. I was going to say...and yet you are reading said liberal rag and taking the time to comment on it, when, as J_P_Patches said himself " they got us to respond didn't they? Every click on a link is money in their pocket."

from a non-liberal

I believe that when someone's brain goes into 'suicide mode', there is mental illness. That means rational thinking is not an option.

Seems to me, the two character flaws that were in control were anger and selfishness.

May the 3 children rest in peace. May the mother find peace of mind.

I want to say that I don't care what happens to the adults, but that's not nice, nor Christian. I pray for mercy for their souls.

You are correct JP...they got us to click on. But I thought I was going to get a complete story. Peech is my name, because Peach was not available.

Evidently, there was a good reason why the Grandmother had custody of the kids, and maybe the mother was attempting to clean up her act. So she pops into rehab for a few weeks, and some judge thinks kids will be better with her...blah blah blah. We don't know how long this has been going on and maybe the Grandmother thought this was best for the kids instead of living with an unfit mother... who knows? People do horrible things when they feel threatened. Being a Gramma, I can only speculate, but luckily, I have great daughters who love and take care of their children, who actually put their children first instead of themselves.

Actually, the mother and father arranged for the 3 children to live with the Grandma for awhile because of a disruptive older child in the house. This was reported earlier. Then the mother and father decided that the 3 younger ones should come back so they could be a solid family unit again. Child services was called by the grandma, but they could find no reason to keep the children away from their mother and father and older sibling. This is a tragic story, but I don't think it's right to judge the mother and father in this case. The grandmother and uncle are the only ones who know what drove them to do this to these innocent children.

killing others will definitely send you to an afterlife of burning in hell!

So according to JoAnn; all you Vets are going to hell...yes, my comment is stupid - stupid comments often result in stupid retorts. JoAnn; passing judgement will result in that Hell sentence also. In case you have been asleep the last 5 years - the funds to treat the mentally ill have been drastically cut.

Ummmmm, Joann? Have you never seen in the Bible that little phrase "Judge not lest ye be judged"? Sorta applies to you( as well as to all of us, as we are all with sin) doesn't it?

Really Sprint? Nobody is allowed to condemn the senseless murder of children? And if you judge her for judging does that make you less of a judge? Get back to us on that when you figure it all out.

I'm surprised MSNBChas time for news from Ohio? Doesn't the reporter know the election is over? This spot could be used to shove, or lie about how taxing the rich will end all hardships for the 47%..............

man...i just don't know...but i think that "God has a haro-on" shouldn't be used. it's just wrong lmao

Could be they had no heat and were trying to stay warm in the car.. Nice and warm and sleepy from the carbon monoxide.

Unlikely after near record warmth the past few days.

Even more unlikely after we've been told it wasn't an accident. Hope really does spring eternal - which is a good thing for those who are unable to comprehend what they've just read.

If they were "just trying to stay warm in the car" then their deaths would have been accidental. The story asserts the deaths were not accidental. What conclusion did we jump too?

Sorry to add to the politcal rants on a thread about such a tragedy, but I find it hard not to respond to stupid statements... I hate to tell you this Segdirb, but Obama won the states with the most college graduates and highest IQ's per capita... just sayin'. Meanwhile, I am truly sorry for the loss of innocent lives.

Not likely. It was 70 degrees in Sylvania yesterday... but I'm sorry for what happened to your nephew.

SEGDIRB, shut the hell up, this is about children being murdered.

Hope really does spring eternal - which is a good thing for those who are unable to comprehend what they've just read.

Kcwoman, please issue a warning before your comments. You have made my drink exit through my nostrils, twice. LOL

On a more serious note, it takes a whole heap of arrogance to make the decision to take the lives of these babies? Very sad.

Big difference between intelligence and wisdom, Mr. states with the highest IQ.

Also on a side note the loss to this family is terrible, clearly not an accident.

SCIENCE SCAR...........

Don't flatter yourself, It's not IQs It's the most highly indoctrinated per capita...........

Project much, lee? Mossi, I think I'll place my bets on the wisdom of intelligent people.

I hate to point this out roadrunner, but propane burns clean, which is why it is safe to operate propane fueled fork lifts and what not inside and to use propane lanterns inside. The use of a propane heater in his truck may have killed him through asphyxiation (because it would have burned up the oxygen) but it wouldn't have caused carbon monoxide/dioxide poisoning.

Humans are sometimes not that smart..

I waited until the rest of the group pointed that out for you.

Thanks for reiterating, though.

Unfortunately grandmothers, grandfathers, mothers, daddies...etc...all do it nowadays. You dont know what happened here, hell even those reporting dont. Suppostions help nothing.

Pixie, if they were just trying to keep warm then their deaths would have been accidental and the story plainly says it was no accident.

There was near record warm temperatures in this area over the past few days, so no reason to keep warm in a car while parked in a garage.

Dale Dale Dale...The police said it didn't" appear" to be an accident which just means they're not finished investigating yet & not sure what happened.

essie222.....There was near record warm temperatures in this area over the past few days, so no reason to keep warm in a car while parked in a garage.

And even less of a reason to have another vehicle 'pump exhaust' into the car. If that piece by itself, is accurate,......well then ......my mind must work in a different way. Maybe they were really that ignorant, and were just 'trying to keep warm'. If so, I can understand why the grandmother might be having a hard time keeping custody of the kids. Sheesh!!!

Now, I'm not one to jump to any conclusions, especially the conclusion that a news article is ever based on true facts these days. Obviously if it was that warm outside this family was not in the car trying to stay warm, but the only reason I believe that is so many readers have pointed it out and it was not stated it the article at all. The only other thing I know for sure is how sad it is when children die. It's worse when those who are supposed to protect them are the ones who take their lives- I hope that is not really the case here.

I can certainly believe that a grandmother murdered her grandchildren. We read every day about mothers abusing or killing their children-do people magically become nice once they reach a certain age?

But regardless of whether grandma or uncle was responsible (which begs the question of why the other adult didn't put a stop to it unless they were both involved-the article implies all victims died from carbon monoxide poisoning, so it's not like one of the adults was incapacitated in some other way) it's sad that they had to bring the children down with them. And if it was an accident, then it's even all the more tragic.

good point and they said the police had to break in was the door locked?

The door was either locked, barracaded, or the cops didn't know wheteher to push or pull to enter.

Dale Darlin' please reread the headline....Doesn'Appear To be an accident. Which means....not sure one way or the other.And the cops don't appear(there's that word again)to be very well-trained.

That was just a bit of crack reporting. They had to find one solid fact to put in the article to give it some sort of legitimacy.

You are the fourth person in this string who just CANNOT comprehend that THIS WAS NOT AN ACCIDENT! THEY WERE NOT TRYING TO "STAY WARM"!!! Please, people, please. Read.

I read "do not appear accidental" you cannot say it was not an accident by how this reads. Have you never seen anything that appears different than it actually is. Maybe you should please, please. Read.

They were not trying to stay warm. Sounds like a group suicide with the kids. A lot of people feel an end is near and that end will be horrific.

There are things the mind should dwell on and things the mind shouldn't. Minds these days are fed a steady round the clock diet of the things that shouldn't be dwelt upon. Many more will take this path of perceived preservation. I am surprised no violence broke out after this past election with hate being neck deep.

Toledo, Ohio has for at least 45 years been a town set on it's own destruction. It was a lovely town a hundred years ago. The local paper has the story in it.

Well, if they were trying to keep warm why didn't the exhaust from the HONDA Civic poison them?

Emergency responders found the grandmother, uncle, three children, two dogs and a cat in a Honda Civic in the grandmother's garage. A Dodge truck in the garage had pumped exhaust -- carbon monoxide -- into the Civic.

If you think MSN's article is hasty and ill-written, you should click on the link in their story that leads you to the report in the Toledo-Blade, from which MSN pulled their report.

The Blade reports that the grandmother lived in the home with "...her husband, and her son." Was the latter the uncle who is one of the victims? No information given on this in either story.

The Blade (and MSN) reports that "Police and fire crews were called to the residence at 3:17 p.m. by Ms. Ford’s husband, Randy Ford, wanting officers to do a wellness check." Why didn't he go look for himself? There might have been time to save them had he shut off the truck, opened doors and windows, etc. Perhaps he was disabled, but again, neither report mentions this.

The Blade reports that : "Police arrived at 3:26 p.m....and forced entry into the garage where they found the five victims." Why was it necessary for them to force entry if there was another, live occupant in the home?

Lastly, the Blade reports that "Toledo police Sgt. Joe Heffernan declined to say how officials determined that the cause of death was carbon monoxide poisoning, but added that the deaths did not appear accidental. When asked if the suspect died in the incident, the sergeant said that there were no suspects wanted by police at that time."

Two stories reporting this terrible tragedy, yet neither gives important or sufficient details of the incident, even though I am sure they must have been available to them.

May all of the victims rest in eternal peace, and may their families and friends receive solace and comfort according to their needs.

If the grandfather is even close in age to his wife (the deceased grandmother) he could have been at work, possibly out of town, truck driver, etc., you know, someone with a job. Probably a republican. It is not unusal for someone to ask the police to do a "check" on a house if they are out of town and suspect somethiing is wrong. Maybe there was a pre-arranged time he called his wife every day and she didn't answer.

I apologize for the prior "republican" comment...............

@Bryda - since you read the local article you should have noticed the part where it stated the garage was barricaded, hence the reason for the police needing to break through the door. The local article stated the grandfather got home from work and found letters from the grandmother, uncle and kids. When he was unable to find them and couldn't get into the garage he called the police.

@natedom - here is the full text of the article I read in the Blade. It mentions nothing about grandfather getting home from work, finding letters, or a barricaded garage. It did say "forced entry," but that could simply mean locked doors. Perhaps you read a later article.

The names of the five people -- two adults and three children -- found dead inside a West Toledo home today, apparently of carbon monoxide poisoning, have been released.

Found dead inside a vehicle parked in the home’s garage was Sandy Ford, 54; her son, Andy Ford, 32; Paige Hayes, 10; Logan Hayes, 7, and Madalyn Hayes, 5. The children are Mrs. Ford’s grandchildren and nieces and a nephew of Mr. Ford.

Neighbors said Mrs. Ford lived in home, 5142 Harvest Ln., with her husband, and her son. The children were frequent visitors to the West Toledo home, three neighbors said.

Police and fire crews were called to the residence at 3:17 p.m. by Ms. Ford’s husband, Randy Ford, wanting officers to do a wellness check. Police arrived at 3:26 p.m., about the time fire crews arrived on scene, and forced entry into the garage where they found the five victims.

Police were on scene until a little after 7 p.m.

Toledo police Sgt. Joe Heffernan declined to say how officials determined that the cause of death was carbon monoxide poisoning, but added that the deaths did not appear accidental.

When asked if the suspect died in the incident, the sergeant said that there were no suspects wanted by police at that time.

I live in Southeastern Ohio. Our local sheriffs' office will do a 'well-being check'. If family or friends are not able to contact you via phone or net, and are unable to physically check on you.... the police will physically check on you. Of course, this happens when they have the free time to do so. I think it happens when people are in 'high' drama situations in their lives and COULD potentially be in harms way. Or if people have illnesses that could prevent them from answering their phones. This story is just SAD because of the children. And I AGREE, the media is TOO QUICK to report when they have NO information :(

Good point CLS...which just leads me to wonder what was going on in their lives that the Grandfather was worried enough to call the police when he couldn't reach the family. As quite a few have posted this article is truly lacking.

In Washington its a Child Welfare Check, any time you cannot get a response for someone who has the care of the child. The police will respond.

Just my two cents but "mother was in the process of getting custody back after four years". We have no information on the mother other than that and for the children to be legally placed with grandmother, mom had some significant issues that made her a prior safety risk (or the state would not have given the children to grandmother). Grandmother may have felt that, based on the mother's previous care of the children, prior to grandmother getting custody, return home to the mother was worse than death. Who knows, based on this story

Close garage door...cover openings w/towels...or don't, it just takes longer...engine runs and puts out CO2...you've never heard of this before?

carbon monoxide - odorless, colorless, tasteless. You just go to sleep forever when you have inhaled enough. If this is a murder suicide it was, at least, painless for the kids. God Bless them....

Everyone is assuming the killer died in the garage.

That is true Dale. It sure seems to be that way.

Wow...you know how it all happened, Sherlock? You should call the police. In the meantime, don't bitch about them or the firefighters. They do more than you could ever do...

bluepanther--->troll.

This is probably a case of the family involved in drug trafficking. Grandmother could be the former girlfriend of my ex....she was pretty pathetic.....sorry for the family of the children minus the grandmother!

People locked in a garage against their will probably wouldn't all be found seated in another car. They'd be found in positions near the exits where they would have been trying to get out. It's hard to imagine, but from the scarce information here, it seems that the uncle and grandmother must have decided together that everyone would be better off dead than having the mother rejoin the family. I think this was a murder-suicide, and the only true victims were the kids and the animals.

Isn't Miami still in Florida. I was born & raised here & Biscayne Bay st still to my left & the Everglades are to my right with the Keys straight south with acurve to the west..

Lol Pixi1

and what did you learn there? we don't do home owned CO2 detectors. carbon MONoxide is CO.