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The operator of the fifth largest sewage treatment plant in the nation says it can make no promise as to when the plant will stop polluting the New York harbor.
A 12-foot surge of water swamped the Newark plant that serves some 3 million people when Sandy struck on Oct. 29 and repairs are not incomplete.
Mike DiFrancisci, executive director of the Passaic Valley Sewerage Commission, would only say "ASAP" when asked when repairs to the sprawling facility could be made.
Until then, the main outfall will continue dumping millions of gallons of partially treated human waste a day at a point close to the Statue of Liberty across from Manhattan.
Also on NBCNewYork.com: 13 gas stations allegedly gouged consumers after Sandy
Pathogens in partially treated waste are a health hazard and public safety threat, officials said.
Fishing, crabbing and shellfishing bans in the New Jersey waters of the harbor will remain in effect, said Larry Ragonese, a Department of Environmetal Protection spokesman.
The New York City Department of Environmental Protection also issued an advisory to residents to avoid contact with the water.
While no target date has been set for repairs at the plant to be completed, DiFrancisci said he expected the facility, which has miles of underground chambers and pipes, to be redesigned to withstand the new reality of storms like Sandy.
"Underneath it would be no different than being in a battleship, making sure the doors are watertight," DiFrancisci said.
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so now its no longer "partially treated".......??? ..... WTF..????
gm Tramp
Thanks for clearing that up. When I read the headline, I thought Snooki might have fallen into the river.
And how is this different from the situation before Sandy? At least it is not flowing through trenches beside the streets.
I do Subsurface Utility Engineering and live in central Jersey. Up in Northern Jersey, there are still "Combined" systems.
This means that some storm drains that go directly into the river, are still "combined" with raw sewage systems that dump in the river and has been for a couple hundred years.
Back then, there were no treatment facilities and this was the norm however, when many people were getting extremely sick from the river, they started to treat it the best they could and slowly, technology caught up and here we are.
We have been working on rerouting the sewage directly to the treatment plants little by little because it's way too expensive to do it all at once but one day, they'll be separated completely.
GM creekdog,
here on the banks of the mighty Mississippi, combined are no longer legal,( at least on the Iowa side) lots of new lines being laid, but besides being a biker i am also an avid boater, swimmer,and fisherman as well, i agree with it. but wow my homeowner tax's went up 30% in the last 3 years.
and this was the situation in August when up in Sleepy Hollow a water main broke ....
wow.... if this is the case in NYC just think of the sheer magnitude that has to be dealt with in D.C.................
DeeCee is as small hamlet of @500,000; it's the 6 million that live in the surrounding metro MD and VA that are full of it.
Not one city in this country, or even small town, has water that isn't polluted with human and animal wastes, as well as chemicals galore.
That's it folks, just crap in the nearest river. What a bunch of slobs.
sorry but the mob doesn't take days off, the bodies were mounting up...gotta do something...
roflmfao!
followed by .......
Im going to take a wild guess here and say ........NEVER........
Until then, the main outfall will continue dumping millions of gallons of partially treated human waste a day at a point close to the Statue of Liberty across from Manhattan.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Man think of all the visitors to this country, statue of liberty tourist, "We open our arms to the tired, weak, and . . . , but look at this cesspool of chit you are in." How worthy of New York to present such an inviting welcome to people. Yep really makes an impression. And when fishing & crabbing are open to commerical fishing again - who wants to eat them? Look-a-here, we have seafood with added flavoring here in NY.
Rats and sewage and Snooki.
Out of the three, which one is worse ?
I know, I know.....uuhhhhh, It's Snooki...dressed in a rat costume....doing a Playboy spread.....on a pile of sewage. (aw crap, now I got that image burned in my brain...ow...ow...ow...ow)
Until Republicans stop denying that there is climate change and that we need to change the way we use resources and fossil fuels this will only get worse.
Do your part. Turn off your lights and your computer immediately.
The answer is within the brain of Chris Matthews. BTW, he is leading a flash mob swim party this afternoon at the harbor. 1pm ET. Be there! Oh, wait...Chris is already full of crap!
Don't forget to include Bush in blaming folks. Hopefully, if you are right, when the ice caps melt, it will take out NYC first and then Hollywood. Oh, wait...the North Koreans are taking out the west coast with their missiles as we have disarmed.
If human poop is Toxic it is because it was toxic when it was eaten.
Who eats human poop?
The poop itself isn't toxic; its just food byproduct. It's the microscopic nasties that thrive on the poop, like fecal coliform and other pathogens.
hambone johnson.....now THAT"S the frightning question. I'm sure there's some crazy fetish out there. Yuck....I need a shower.
hambone johnson
Who eats human poop?
+++++++++++++++++++
fag's do.
scat
Oh, Walter,
You're so cute when you're being a bigot. :)
scat spelled backwards is tacs.....as in tic tacs....OMG....tic tacs are albino poo?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Night_soil
Maybe we all have and did not know it.
"and repairs are not incomplete." So they must be complete, right?
Maybe this is one of those intentional journalistic errors, inserted in the article to see if anyone is reading.
I agree Linda. They must have no Proof-reading or the reporter does not comprehend what he/she writes.
Are all of you this dumb? Where is the Federal Government? This is a human tradgey of epic proportions. Sewage plants still dumping raw sewage into the ocean? What happened to the clean water act? If boats leak one drop of oil from their vessels if can cost them their boat. This problem should have been attacked in the second day at worst. Anyone up there in yankee land know what they are doing?
Kind of reminds me of Japan with their nuclear reactors.
What do you expect them to do? The plant isn't functioning, and there's no way to store the waste.
Usually, the EPA would announce fines for each day that the problem continues.
There is probably federal assistance available to help get them up and running, but the legal responsibility is on the local utility.
This problem is beyond the sewer authority's control, and the plant management seems to be making good faith efforts to resolve it. I don't think that fines are warranted in this case, and I'm sure the EPA has flexibility.
NYC is built on rock. Should there be a quake the destruction will be Epic.
Soft soil is actually worse in a quake.
Barry is right. The '89 quake in San Francisco showed that the areas built on man made landfill suffered the most damage because sea water easily softened the landfill. A lot of SF housing was/is built on solid rock. That's why very few houses in SF have a basement. You'd have to blast to have one.
Another reason to blame Bush!!! Where is King Barry? How come we are not seeing residents interviewed on TV about the poor job being done by the Fed to help? This is just the beginning,,some times you have to hit rock bottom before you can get back up and we are heading that way sooner than later.
totally agree. this MUST be Bush's fault. certainly nothing to do with Obama..he would never allow such a thing to happen. Besides, he has a job and nice place to live with all the money he needs. So he could care less. Compassion? Hahahahahahahahaha. FOOLS!
What are you expecting the federal government to do that they're not doing? Interesting how everyone is screaming for smaller government until, that is, they need it.
Hmm..did you have this same approach when Katrina hit? That same degree of understanding? I doubt it. THEN it was Bush wasn't acting fast enough. Hmmm..shoe is on the other foot now and it is ok how it is going. Guess you have electricity and aren't in the midst of all the dispare/chaos. Like Obama. Far removed from it and everything is great.
There are significant differences. First, the head of homeland security in 2012 didn't claim that he wasn't aware of problems because it didn't look so bad on TV. Second, the military stationed helicopter carriers off the NJ coast immediately. I have friends who live on the NJ shore who saw the military/national guard in action after the storm. Third, Gov. Christie (a Republican) praised the assistance provided by Obama and the federal government, so I'd say that it as ineffective as you claim.
However, in both instances, there's only so much that the federal government can do. It can send in personnel to establish FEMA offices to provide financial assistance, but it isn't going to repair electrical lines or repair houses.
This, has nothing to do with any President. This is a direct result of the citizens of
NY & NJ, who don't want to PAY for decent trash disposal, or waste removal.....much
cheaper and easier on the tax payer, to just have someone haul it all to the Ocean...and
you all want HELP from the rest of the Country? Get those who are unemployed among you,
receiving Federal Assistance, and have them go out on barges with those "booms" they use, to
confine Oil, and have them suck the waste OUT of NY Harbour. I'm sure, that by now, those
at the treatment plant have found the valves, that allow them to DISCHARGE the waste.... It's simple
stupid.....shut the damned valve off, and forbid people to flush their toilets for the next 48 hours.
Mayor Bloomberger, hire a company to put Porta Potties on every corner, and get THEM to haul it away
to where it can be properly "treated" since your neighbor's treatment plant can't handle NY"s crappers...
Yes, it will cost the Tax payers something, but they will thank you for it, when they avoid the STENCH
that will permeat your city, unless someone takes some initiative without having to be guided by the Federal Government. What do you have a Mayor for, and a Governor in power. Don't any of you
know how to take care of your lives, or do you live for New Year's Eve, when Times Square is full
of Tourists, who watch you "drop the ball"? Well, this year, unless you get your act together, no
one will want to come to your polluted, foul smelling city for any reason.....even your restaurants
will be on the health Department watch list, when customers can't even flush the toilets or wash
their hands in clean water..... Shame on you...one of the Wealthiest Cities in the World, and you
can't even pay to dispose of your waste? Waaaaa Waaaa....no one outside of NY/NJ CARE if you
"can't get help" for the mess you have created for yourselves. I really had an inflated opinion
about New Yorkers....I used to think they were brilliant people and from the looks of your reaction to
a minor storm, which did not produce Tornados, you all don't know how to fight your way out of a paper bag. You should try living in Tornado Alley for a while, perhaps you would take better care of your corner of the earth!
Human waste in the harbor- what else is new?
Can't they tell New Yorkers to just hold it in for a little while longer?
Just let Chris Matthews know. He has an "in" with Obama and knows all the answers!
In fact, Chris will probably show you it isn't that bad by leading a flashmob swim party there.
Oh, wait, he is already full of crap!
I doubt anyone would be able to tell the difference in the harbor. Same Ole crap - different day...
Well, since I run a wastewater treatment plant, it's time for a basic education. Water runs downhill... now you understand sewage. Plants are located along streams or bodies of water since the early ages so you could discharge the treated flow to the water body (it's crazy but by and large methods of treating sewage (air and bugs) have not really changed since the days of the Romans)... we are eliminating CSS systems (combined sewer systems which share both sewage and stormwater nationally in the last 20 years.. those always overflow when you get big storms)...
There are two kinds of water coming into a plant in high water situations, INFLOW and INFILTRATION... Inflow can come in through manholes, cross connections where area drains are connected by homeowners to the sewer system... Infiltration comes in through the pipes and cracks in them. Terra Cotta pipes have 3' and 5' foot lengths. Over 50 to 150 years they start leaking a joints. High hydraulic head forces water into those joins (when you look at it on a photo it's called a pisser.... for obvious reasons)..
So what you try to do is control the amount of water coming into the plant (while trying to be cost effective)... our plant is a 1.25 mgd plant (million gallons per day).... we are a small plant. When we get a slow 1/2" rain we do not go up in flows coming in (normal flows for us are about 900,000 gallons per day)... when we get up to about a 1 1/2" in one day we can get up to 1,100,000 gallons per day...
Biggest we had was when we had a "microburst" near our plant.... we got 2 1/2" of rain in 45 minutes. The plant flow shot up to 5,000,000 gallons per day... and you just get out of the way...
We discharge to a creek... so when we have to bypass we are required to treat with chlorine to disinfect as much as possible...
It isn't pretty but there is only so much you can do.... and when your plant goes under water... it's an entire new ballgame...
Thank you for the "crappy" education. ;-) (Really, thanks. Same reason a water tower is place at the highest place it will work. Water does what it will do, and go wherever is will go. Floods don't care.)
The water treatment infrastructure in Detroit, MI is bypassing the separate system and installing a "patch". Instead of creating a separate line for sewer and stormwater there are now going to be large combined sewer overflow (CSO) basins which are basically huge cement basins that can hold vast amounts of overflow.
It seems weird to put the effort into a bandage when the entire system needs to be replaced anyways, but I guess it keeps construction jobs around.
Indianapolis is doing the same as Detroit - building enormous underground concrete caverns for the combined sewage/stormwater, holding it for gradual processing after the storm. Currently, various lift stations around town are bypassing to creeks and rivers when there is as much as 1/4-inch of rain in a 12-hour period. This is because all the roofs, streets, sumps, and parking lots downtown dump directly into the ancient combined sewers. And these distributed bypass points do not add chlorine when they overflow.
Evidently, it costs less to build storage sufficient for most rain storms, rather than tear up all the streets downtown for installation of separate systems. I sincerely pity anyone who gets washed down a storm sewer into one of those caverns (during floods, manhole covers get pushed off - that's why you don't wade through flooded streets.) Also, the scrap metal thieves are known to steal a few cast iron covers in the night (big surprise for the early rush hour traffic.)
The White House is full, it has to go somewhere.
What is stopping them from fixing it now?
They can't. They are just giving lip service to the problem. This is from a fairly recent, low key news story....
What's stopping them? Reality. Actually, they are not stopped, just delayed. It took years to build the plant - it cannot be rebuilt in hours (just like the electric power system.) There are control panels and wiring that have been swamped with sewage - motors that are soaked in saltwater. It's a hard, nasty, time-consuming job to pump out vaults, ventilate, clean and inspect electrical equipment. Some motors and controls will need to be tagged, uninstalled, sent to a repair shop, fixed and tested, returned and re-installed. Some of it can just be replaced, but they might need to order new stuff and wait for it to be manufactured and shipped.
The fifth-largest sewage plant in the country? They probably have some pumps and motors that are the size and weight of a bulldozer - you don't yank that out, fix, and replace in just a few hours. One blessing - the overflow is not radioactive, just septic.
Not only that, but once they get it all repaired, it's going to take some time to even get everything primed and started up. Then there's the whole activated sludge process (I'm assuming those are aeration tanks in the picture) that takes some time to get working efficiently.
Shhhhhhhh, we don't want to frighten the tourist away, and we must not say "Dirty Banker" as they are caught stealing Billions of dollars................................ Come one, Come all and Enjoy the New York City Moment............. And you can even enjoy it, when returning home as your temperature rises above 100 degrees and your Doctor prescribes antibiotics............. Isn't the enjoyment of life using money great?
I would say that New York has the 3 S problem: Shiitty, Smelling, Stinky problem. Maybe they should stop dedication for awhile.
I believe I have constantly mentioned this problem in connection with massive immigration when no attention has been given to the corresponding problem of providing a solution to the infrastructure problems.... particularly the one of waste treatment.
Cities and towns call their structures "Water Treatment" plants instead of what they really are.... "Human Waste Treatment" plants... because their label sounds so much more PC and keeps people from thinking about what really goes into the place.
You can keep thinking you are the humanitarians of the world until we become as disease-ridden as any country where the people squat and defecate in the same stream they scoop their drinking water from.... and it will happen if we don't reduce immigration... NOT reform it to the point we allow millions more in.
New Jersey and New York aren't the only places this has happened. It was kept low key, but it happened every single place there was a severe storm and/or flooding, and it happens every time there is a heavy rainstorm, in every single city and town in this country.
yes, during Sandy, that did happen at Little Patuxent River
When man first appeared, defecation occurred where ever he/she happened to be at the time. In time, humans learned to select sites and to cover their feces. Man learned to build huts, enclosing the act, over a hole. Eventually hole filled up so, dug a new one, moved hut, Mama was happy.
Humans have put man on the moon, visited distant space via satellites and visited the bottom of the oceans. We can travel thousands of miles in an airplane, train or automobile. Eat in a variety of restaurants, from Five Star to the proverbial "greasy" spoons. Live in McMansions or trailer parks. Astronauts on the International Space Station, circle the earth sixteen times a day.
Humans are supposedly the more intelligent of the species yet. we continue to foul the very home we live on. Our sewage disposal has changed very little in the last hundred years.
The combustion engine, outfitted with all manner of gadgets, meant to comply with government mandated requirements, but in effect, still polluting, has retained the same basic design.
Yes, we have updated the "hut", improved transportation methods, ventured into space and the bottom of the oceans. Yet have overlooked improving sewer systems in places known to flood, haul waste back from space yet, never realize the water we drink today, passed through someone's digestive system.
Have a nice day.
BTW, I forgot to tell you The United Nations, said that if Americans flushed the toliet but once a day; the entire world would have more clean fresh water to drink.
The amount of fresh water that Americans consume does not influence the availability of fresh water in, say, Europe or Asia.
"repairs are not incomplete.." - check your grammar whoever wrote this article; that's a confusing way to say that the repairs are complete, which they are not according to the rest of your article
This article is a load of crap.
Why does NBC always downplay the problem instead of giving readers the facts? The election is over...time to hold the government and FEMA accountable for not so quick action.
NBC version: "Until then, the main outfall will continue dumping millions of gallons of partially treated human waste a day at a point close to the Statue of Liberty across from Manhattan."
Real Life Version: "Add 50 million stinking gallons of pollution per day to the lengthy list of problems facing the Rockaways in the wake of Sandy. That's how much partially treated sewage has poured into the waters off the struggling Queens neighborhood since the Bay Park Sewage Treatment Plant in nearby Nassau County was damaged by the storm." From the article at: The New York Daily News
Add to that the contributions of New Jersey...
"the grossest repercussion that Hurricane Sandy has left behind: the damaged Newark sewage treatment plant in New Jersey is currently is releasing between 200 million and 240 million gallons a day of partially treated wastewater into New York Harbor, the state Department of Environmental Protection said." From the article at: The Atlantic Wire
NBC makes it sound like a "few million" gallons instead of 250 to 290 million gallons per day into New York Harbor.
So what is the government or FEMA to do?
Stop people from pooping?
Read some of the other comments from people more knowledgeable than I and you'll understand the scope of the problem.