It does seem pretty clear that the driver of the truck that was towing the float is the one at fault in this tragedy. He obviously used poor judgement in trying to cross the tracks when he did. Even if he did not hear the crossing bells start to sound, it should not take over 12 seconds for the float the cross the tracks. Even at a speed of only 15 miles per hour the truck would move 254 feet in 12 seconds, many times the length of the truck and float. Even if the truck/float was moving at five miles and hour it would have crossed the tracks in less than the 12 seconds from the time the truck started across the tracks and the collision. This makes it pretty obvious that the way ahead was not clear and that the driver was forced to stop while the float was on the tracks. Any driver knows you do not start to cross railroad tracks unless the way ahead is clear for you to completely cross the tracks before you start moving.

Cannot help but wonder what kind of dumb ass ignores a train crossing warning lights and gate.

But hey, at least the truck cab was safely out of the way... that's the most important thing :\

Did you figure all that out all by yourself?

What was the speed of the truck upon reaching the tracks? Was the driver concerned that the passengers were not secure on the float so that he/she couldn't respond quickly enough to the bells and lights, and stop the truck?

What prevented the driver from completely crossing the tracks in the 12 seconds between the time he/she first started across and when the train hit the float? How did the tractor make it across in that time, but not the float? Another article reported that, as it descended, the gate hit the truck. Did that have an effect on the truck moving forward?

It is not clear to me that this was due to negligence by the driver. Maybe so, but it's not clear from the information I've seen.

My prayers go out for all those involved in this horrendous tragedy, their families, the witnesses, and the first responders.

My thoughts go out to the families of those lost.

Sad that our veterans have to deal with IED's ( Improvised Explosive Devices ) overseas and come home and have to deal with IED's ( Incompetent Employed Drivers ) here....

What's not clear jaden? He tried to cross 7 seconds after the lights started to blink. He tried to beat the gate as it descended plain and simple. He had 7 seconds to decide to stay put. He chose poorly.

Picking up on JS jn SD's point… The train was reported to have been traveling 62mph by CBS. That is 91ft per sec. 20 secs is >1800ft away.

By aerial photogs the UP (former MP) tracks are straight as an arrow, but since the street used and the direction of the train has not been reported little more should be opined conclusifely. If the crash occurred on Main Street and the train was proceeding WB I see little that would obstruct a train engineer/conductor view. However, if going EB there is an overpass for the street running parallel one block west of Main Street which might have partially obstructed a full view of a vehicle "stuck" on the tracks. From my experience a tractor/trailer consistenting of a flat bed trailer is the worst combination to be fully seen by an advancing train. While the tractor is visible the trailer riding close to the ground behind it is not. And then for there to be people riding on it, that's unexpected and near lunacy for even one traveling as "slow" as 20mph.

The truck driver will be found at fault. Its a young driver's err to have been trapped by tunnel vision over what was only happening ahead of him trying to keep up with vehicle(s) heading to a banquet scheduled after the parade. CBS reported the vehicle struck was the last in line followed only by a copper. If it is a picture of the actual crossing it was further complicated by there being traffic signals for a street intersection incorporated with the RR xing signals. The car traffic control signals expected to be found synched with the grade crossing signals.

This gives a new meaning to those "Don't Mess With Texas" road signs.

@ JSinSD, How long does it take a train going 62 miles per hour to stop? Not that it makes a difference, but the speed limit for trains through there is 60 miles an hour.) (Answer: somewhere on the other side of town.) OH, and I can guarantee that trailer was most likely going less than 5 mph, due to the people sitting on the flatbed trailer in the back. Vehicles going that slow would have been out of sync with the regular crossing gates. What about the people who would route a parade over a railroad track, and apparently, not check the schedule?.....

Bottom line, you can lay blame where ever you like, but it won't bring back those who died. This was a series of errors, not all the fault of the semi driver. It was not intentional.

A Midland local TV report suggests this crash occurred at the Garfield Street crossing. From satellite views it is a location where even the most experienced truck drivers might have had difficulties. Actually, it is a crossing that no tractor trailers should be using! Built in the hosre and buggy era, RR rights-of-way are typically 100ft wide. At the Garfield St crossing streets run parallel to the east-west tracks on both sides. This means that at best 3 cars (or only one truck) on Garfield can fit on either side of the tracks at the paralleling streets intersecting with Garfield. The Garfield Street intersections at the grade crossing are also controlled by traffic lights. In this nasty situation all traffic/rr signals must be in synch to be under the control of an approaching train irrespective of all "appropriate" time delays that allow cars crossing/approaching the tracks to clear out of the way of an approaching train.

How could this accident have been prevented? Well, had the leader who was being followed to reach the banquet together had had the intuitive premonition to realize his followers' difficulties to keep up taking the route he did, it would have prevented the tragedy. This premonition also requires that a leader of the pack realize the phsychology of drivers following in this situation is not to be left falling behind and to push the light if necessary to keep up!

Blame. Blame. Blame. It seems that we are a country consumed with finger pointing. If Darwin was correct, perhaps we might be evolving into a life form with the pointing finger over a foot long.

First, the seats were bolted to the flatbed (as stated in the accompanying news video) Second, the driver had ample time to STOP as the timeline suggests a full seven seconds to respond appropriately to the signal. In the end however, this is a mind-numbingly tragic incident that should have NEVER happened. I pray God's comfort to the victims' families and all those impacted by this senseless, SENSELESS tragedy.

Aside from warnings, etc, it just seems to be a fool idea to plan a parade route that includes RR tracks. Besides vehicles and participants in the parades you also have kids running out into the street after candy is thrown. That said, I have seen parades where I live have to stop and wait for trains. I wonder if the routes will be rethought.

Another article reported that, as it descended, the gate hit the truck. Did that have an effect on the truck moving forward?

Those gates are designed to break away if a vehicle is pressing against them. They should've had no effect on the truck.

Blame. Blame. Blame. It seems that we are a country consumed with finger pointing.

While you may call it finger pointing, it is necessary to determine the cause of the accident and that may involve finding that one or more individuals are at fault. Every accident like this, if properly reviewed, provides clues to prevent a recurrence. Maybe train crossings need longer warning times. Perhaps parade routes shouldn't cross RR lines. Or, just maybe, all the necessary rules and regulations are in place and it comes down to someone not following them.

Cannot help but wonder what kind of dumb ass ignores a train crossing warning lights and gate.

Usually the dead kind of dumb @ss.

Barry - I agree with you - other than "maybe train crossings need longer warning times." You know what happens when the lights flash and the bars come down, and then there is a long wait before the train actually arrives? People start thinking that there must be some mistake - there's no train coming, so they go anyway. Or they simply become impatient and cross.

Drivers are accustomed to stopping on a dime at a red light. They should be able to stop at a RR crossing just the same.

What would be helpful is if there was some kind of sensor on the tracks at crossings to alert the train well in advance that something is on the tracks. The train could be begin slowing down a mile away. This would save lives when a car gets stuck on the tracks.

James H and WinWin:

James: You cannot stop 15,000 tons moving at 62mph in a few feet. That's why there are warning signs, bells, flashing lights, gates, etc, at grade crossings. The fault in this one lies entirely on the driver for ignoring basic good driving principles: stop, look, listen!

WinWin: If you want trains to start slowing down a mile or more from every grade crossing, that's fine; but be prepared to pay more for everything you buy that is shipped by rail. The cost of starting and stopping a train every mile or two is astronomical.

General comment to all people: in most cases, the trains were there first, especially west of the Mississippi. Crossings are not called "street crossings" because the tracks DO NOT cross streets; streets cross the tracks "at grade." Hence, the term grade crossing.

All of that to say this: I truly bleed for the families of the dead and injures in this accident that was eminently preventable. My thoughts and prayers go up for the families involved. Please remember, folks, the life you save may be your own.

WinWin: If you want trains to start slowing down a mile or more from every grade crossing, that's fine; but be prepared to pay more for everything you buy that is shipped by rail. The cost of starting and stopping a train every mile or two is astronomical.

Are you (and the public - in general), willing to deal with the cumulous delay? Possibly - you are one of the few people who do not realize how long a train - especially a Freiat train is? It's a balancing act to get the trains through a city vs. how long a train can they run. In the wide open west ... going through the deserts, trains are miles long, many miles going through a city at a real rate of 1 or 2 miles an our... once you add in the time for stopping, starting, stopping again then starting again... it could take all day or longer for a train to pick up speed. Then coming out of the desert - they might not even be going fast enough to get up the grades going into and through the mountains. What would happen next is all the crossings would have to be changed to under passes, below grade... remember- trains where there first, so the cities would get the bill.

What makes trains fuel efficent is once they are up to speed - they can more or less cruise based on momentum. Piss of the train companies and they will slow down. It'll only take a week of that before people would start begging them to speed up.

Why wasn't conrail informed?

Incidentally, having seats bolted to a flatbed truck does not constitute "safe seating." Bolts break.

stay tuned... I'm sure we'll be hearing a lot about him.

"Something is rotten in this whole affair" - Really? I'm not sure what you believe to be the big cover up. For all we know the driver could have been related to one of the victims. Talk about rotten.

God, I hope he wasn't texting while driving....

Why is his/her name and the truck's owner kept a secret from the public? That driver is completely culpable here.

Perhaps the driver is at fault. But, how many times initial reports of an incident turned out to be wrong or incomplete? If driver is culpable, there is plenty of time to take action after all the reports have been examined by investigators.

Probably because he was a non-union truck driver.

Probably because he was a non-union truck driver.

No one wants to be the last car through an intersection or the last car for a train or trolley car. If it a long freight train - its even more imperativeto not be the last car through - Its a game to most drivers, even when its a red light that last car is tempting ... in his mind - it goes something like this. If the guy in front of me can make, then so can I make it too - no one is going to deliberately hit me from the side, right?

Its the same game motorists play with Yellow lights. In most parts of California - it has become traditional to wait 2 Mississippi's (2 seconds) after the light turns green before moving... but even that is not enough. I commonly see cars blasting through reds when 4 cars have already got through... thats not even to mention the ones who are still in the intersection.

Trains and trolley cars have right of way - period. That should be common sense - a loaded freight train could be pulling a million + lbs/tons behind it. It won't, can't stop on a dime. But there is that temptation that urges people to get ...one more car across.

This has been going on from the days of horse riders and wagons. It not likely that it'll change today.

Yes, Beowolf, you are correct. Your point is largely mind above. To understand this incident one must look at it in terms of the "float" preceding the one struck by the train, which by this report "just made it across" the tracks as the rr-xing signal came on. There are ones who say stop, look and listen. Did the preceding truck to cross the tracks do this? Because had it set this example, it should have seen the train 2500-3000ft away. What should it have done? Remaining stopped to wait would have caused a certain 2-5 minute delay reaching a banquet, but save the lives and prevented the injuries to others. Furthermore, had the preceding truck stopped to wait "an eternity" the last truck behind it which was struck by tragedy by keeping up, and the trailing sheriff, instead would have been embarrassingly blocking cars, also for an eternity" on Front Street, running parallel 50 feet north of the tracks. While the skewed rational goes: Speed up the trains so motorists aren't delayed so long.

Why is it down in a matter of seconds? Because if you make a driver wait more than 30 seconds before they even see a train on the tracks, they're apt to go around the lowered bars. Thus creating more vehicle/train accidents. After all, drivers can't have their day inconvenienced by a train! They have so many important things to do!

Humans is stupid.

Count 13 seconds in your head and you'll realize it's more than enough time to clear a railroad track.

Especially considering the fact that NO ONE should ever be stopped on a railroad track, EVER.

Sadly most peoples loose all common sense (and courtesy) just as soon as they get behind the wheel.

I once had a car that used to stall if you didn't give it some gas when braking. I approached some tracks that were in bad shape out in the country many years ago, and braked because you'd go airborne if you crossed them over 25 mph. I saw a train off in the distance across the fields, but it was quite a ways away. The car stalls and stops dead right in the middle of the tracks. I turned the key. Nothing. Oops, forgot to put it in park. Put in park, started it, got it in gear and off the tracks with the train maybe 80-100 feet away but what felt like inches to my scared-out-of-my-mind younger self.

That question has nothing to do with the train - the law is on the side of the train. In most cases - the train came before the town. The train has right of way - period. The warning bar, bells and lights are a courtesy. to remind drivers, usually a concession put in place because some idiot ignored common sense and got stuck on the tracks one time too many way back when. If they range the bells, turned on the lights any earlier, people would still run the barriers - when they didn't see a train after about 30 seconds.

Think about yourself, you are in a new neighborhood and the timer on the lights is broken - how long will you sit there, by yourself, no traffic, no cops? If you are like the majority of drivers - after a minute or less, you assume the light is broke and (like they say in the drivers manual) you treat it like a 4 - way stop sign... and go across any way.

Likely lawyers will see plenty of civil law not necessarily on the side of the rr. From the satellite photos I refer to above, the rXr pavement markings do not appear on the southbound lanes of Garfield Street. Those painted on the nb lanes are painted south of the Industrial Avenue intersection. Garfield intersects Front Avenue 50-100 ft before the rr-xing. The traffic control light for this intersection for sb traffic is placed within 50ft of the tracks while the next traffic control light for Industrial is 50-100 ft south of the tracks. Which lights when being obeyed would go overlooked by most drivers? Its the rr-xing lights that remain dark most always. Its my view that the parade/caravan of police escorted vehicles was giving little heed to any signals lights and the rr-xing signal were just overlooked by the impervious shield this created in a driver. Particularly tragic is that the traffic control lights on Garfield at its intersections with Front and Industrial should be found to be properly synched to be controlled by an approaching train. If they were not, lawyers will have some fun for the fault over this, let alone that for not heeding traffic control signals at this location keeping in mind a cop can't stop the train.

Per "Parade truck driver is under physician's care" found at mysanantonio.com:

Although the NTSB has said the warning signals at the intersection — lights, bells and crossing arms — were functioning as designed and were activated 20 seconds before the crash, Pottroff and Glasheen [lawyers for the two victims] suspect that a design standard set for that intersection required a longer warning period. “In all probability, the warning time for this crossing was 30 seconds or greater,” Pottroff said.

Of course, this is ambigous because the timing of events do not change, only the timing of anciliary events preceding the criticalevents. Given the sequence of events involving two trucks it would not have affected the first truck's crossing, but only that the second truck driver would have seen/heard the warning signals for 10 more seconds and possibly that the crossing guards would have come completely down before it could cross since then there were 23 seconds before the train struck the second truck before the gates would have started to descend, or 11 seconds before the front of the second tractor trailer reached the point to start crossing in front of the train. More importantly would have been the affect on the traffic control signals (if obeyed) to cross Front Street that are placed 50ft before the grade crossing.

In most states school busses must stop BEFORE entering the crossing regardless of if there is a train. Also, it is quite possible the parade stopped and the truck couldn't clear. It is for this reason no one should enter a RR crossing unless there is sufficient room to clear the crossing even if traffic stops (also required by law). If both of these rules were followed there would have been no tragedy.

Thanks for the info. Like I posted above, drivers should be able to stop at an RR crossing as well as they do at red lights. There should be no need for more than 30 seconds of warning. There are millions of intersections across America where there is only a stop sign to stop your car from cross traffic, when cross traffic has the right of way (no stop sign). We're all smart enough to stop at an unlit, non-flashing stop sign warning us against entering onto a road with cars, trucks and semis zipping across both ways.

I guess the only difference with a train is that we're asked to stop even though we do not hear or see it coming. People have trouble with that, apparently.

And, as I mentioned above, make a drive wait longer than 30 seconds, and they're apt to try to maneuver around the lowered gates.

Cineyjoe, I don't know of any Parade where the Floats and people walk at 25 MPH. 5 MPH is slow for a person walking even. If your Speedometer has 5 mph on it have a friend walk normally and drive at 5 mph, your friend will go faster than your car

5 MPH is slow for a person walking even.

5 mph is not slow for a person walking; it is a brisk pace. That pace would result in a 12 minute mile, a time that could only be achieved, for many people, by running. A parade traveling at even 5 mph, let alone 25 mph, would be a very fast parade indeed.

5 mph is also fast enough that a parade float crossing railroad tracks at that speed could result in a very rough ride for the passengers, perhaps enough to pitch people off, especially if the crossing was bumpy.

None of this changes the tragic nature of this incident.

According to the treadmill, 2mph is a walk, 4mph is a jog or very brisk walk. 5 mph is jogging to running. I know from experience 4mph is a very brisk walk.

Could this be a criminal investigation?

I think information is often with-held, often for good reason.

NOTE: comments over grade crossing safety are "outside" of rail yards...

@UPS007, I drove OTR for a number of years and have been to your community of Vernom, in fact I have also been to the Railhead there. I pulled a Refer Unit but at times would get a Haz-mat load and DOT Regulations are very Clear around RXR Crossings. Also not to rain on parades as I have seen the use of Tractors and Flatbeds as Floats many times but this brings up an issue about Law and People on a Trailer/Float. Technicly no one is suppose to be riding on/in Moving Trailors. Not condeming the Parade Planners but I feel they should have had a Safety Person at the RXR Crossing keeping a watchful eye out, just in case.

What some people don't think of is the Tractor and trailer is about 80 FEET long, when crossing the RXR tracks it iss not about getting the nose of a truck across the tracks, it's about getting the tail-end of the trailor across.

Good point. Even more reason to not drive passengers on a flatbed trailer across RR crossings - unless there is no train scheduled to cross anytime during the parade. Must've been horrifying for those people.

Why, he may have been in the hospital with a neck injury or in a cell, what ever he's not going anywhere.

Or tokin' on reefer and or popping pills so they can't prove that he was high DURING the parade......

There can be a couple of reasons for the delay. One, the NTSB teams are often sent from DC. Second, the driver's lawyer may have delayed the interview. The NTSB can't compel testimony.

My heart breaks for these people.

Please, follow the rules.

I'm wondering if the cab of the trailer was crossing when the bars came down, and they couldn't speed up because of the vehicle in front of them was too close. In a parade, you can't speed up unless the whole line in front of you does. That may have been the cause. Who knows. Again, why a parade route through an RR crossing?

Hard to understand how the truck driver did not see the train, but it was going 62MPH in a quite zone (no horn) and there was only 20 seconds before the first warning bell and the impact.

This a google map link of the intersection where it happened. I believe the flatbed that got hit was travelling south on Garfield and couldn't move because the flatbed in front of it was stopped at a red light and didn't leave enough room for the 2nd flatbed to clear the tracks.

http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=31.985629,-102.093495&spn=0.05,0.05&t=h&q=31.985629,-102.093495

Tragic accident and my prayers go out to the victims and their loved ones.

Was it a parade route, or was the float trying to get to the start of the parade. If it was the former, I have to wonder why a parade route was going over train tracks to begin with, as a train in the middle of the parade would seem to slow things down. I don't know about Midlands TX, but is the town so small that they can't keep it on one side of the tracks for an hour or so? Do they have bridge where they can do the crossing? It seems that at the minimum, this was an example of poor planning--or if this has been done countless times before, someone dropped the ball on the execution (besides the driver).

Michael, those are good questions. The intersection that was involved is a dangerous intersection with a long history of train collisions. This is the location on Google maps.

http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=31.985629,-102.093495&spn=0.05,0.05&t=h&q=31.985629,-102.093495

It zooms right to street level view.

Thanks John. What a dangerous crossing! Absolutely no room for a tractor/trailer to get out of the way, should the intersections be clogged either with traffic or a red light.

I note they put up a dividers on both sides of the crossing... I guess to prevent people from either escaping, or going around the barricades. Obviously there is a real problem to make them think that is a solution to anything.

Trains used to be required to go slow enough through towns that a man carrying a light on foot preceded them. Over 60 mph through that intersection is too fast for a train IMHO.

Badbob, glad to oblige. That intersection is the kind of railroad crossings that are typical of frequent collisions across the country. Poor city planing that is all too common.

Maybe after this tragedy, something will be done about these very unsafe intersections. It takes a tragedy like this to get people's attention on an obvious problem sometimes.

And this is why, as an engineer, quiet zones scare the hell out of me and should be outlawed. By Federal law any town who petitions for a quiet zone has to, at their cost, have the RR install 4-corner gates, basically making the crossing INESCAPABLE should the gates come down (the point is to keep people out of the crossing but it ends up blocking them in). I'm sorry, if you buy a house near the railroad tracks, deal with the noise. The rails have been there longer. Sometimes a town can negotiate a speed restriction (I operate through one; 25mph on 60mph track), but they are the exception rather than the norm and frankly I don't agree with that either. Its a shame that this happened, but people HAVE to learn to pay attention. Until they do, this type of tragedy will continue.

And what should the train have done in each of those accidents, John? Jumped over to the parallel street and gone around the grade crossing that way? Stopped 15,000 tons in 100 feet, thereby derailing and accordioning the entire train? What was there first, the train or the street? Who wins when 15,000 tons plus 3 or 4 locomotives (150-200 tons each) hit a car or a truck? Legally, what has the right of way at a grade crossing, the train or the car/truck?

Answer all of those questions about the train and try that post over again when you have some facts about trains.

I doubt that the parade was was stopped by traffic signnals. Usually, streets are blocked off for the short time that the parade is going through, or cross traffice can hurry across between floats or groups. Freight trains rarely run by schedules and are not that frequent on most lines in that part of the country, so a small parade should not be a problem.

Hi, BobKC. When did I ever blame the crash on the train? But 20 seconds from first crossing warning and impact is too short. So the railroad may have to accept some responsibility for that.

Rex, you are probably right about that. There is not even room for one flatbed getting caught in a red light on that interesection, so that probably was not a problem. But two semis crossing a train track, 20 seconds is not long enough warning.

I know the logistics of that are more complicated than it sounds, but it would be a simple way to greatly increase the safety of train track crossings like these. It could be done wirelessly and would not be as expensive as a direct hardware link between the railroad crossing signals and the cities traffic signals.

It's been done but it adds a new problem in that the drivers of the intersecting street can end up crashing because they are too used to the lights staying green for a certain amount of time.

Now I know why you are called, "Huh?!" :)

I'm suggesting just green lighting the adjacent traffic lights to clear the direct paths across railroad tracks when the warning signals activate. The crossing lights themselves should be the only thing restricting traffic. All adjacent traffic signals should turn green to clear public traffic from the track area.

The traffic lights are tied to the train crossing controller, when the track lights/arms trip the lead in traffic lights go red, and the lead out traffic lights go green so any excess vehicular traffic has MORE than enough time to empty out the crossings. This has been the standard for a long time!

And, cities can set the maximum speed at which a train can travel through a town. If this max speed wasn't set or had been recently been raised, with the blessing of the city, then there maybe some culpability on their part.

So, between the driver of the truck, and the city fathers, there's going to be some heads rolling! At least there should be!

JWLT, that's interesting. But there is all these videos on youtube with trucks getting hit by trains due to local traffic signals that trapped them on a railroad tracks. Regardless of the stupidity of the drivers, it is more common in some intersections than it is in others. This tragedy happened due to bad conditions all the way around.

HUH??!!!!!! John, THAT'S BEEN DONE!!!!!! Let me type this slowly so maybe you'll understand. Let's say the train tracks run north ad south and the road crossing them goes East and west. Let's also say about a half block from the tracks there's another road that parallels the track. So you understand, that other road goes north and south like the tracks. There's a traffic light at the intersection of the two roads. OK so far? So, the light goes green for the folks on the road that parallels the tracks but shortly after that a train approaches the crossing AND THE GREEN LIGHT IS CUT SHORT to allow the traffic from the road that crosses the track to empty out in case some idiot is sitting on the tracks with a truckload of veterans. What they have found is that drivers don't expect this change and it has caused collisions.

Fred, yes, that's true. It's common in populated areas to have "no horn' zones. It doesn't matter how fast the train is going. That factor, and many other factors contributed to the tragedy. You can bet the Discovery and History Channel and others will be all over this story. It's an unnecessary tragedy that happened to these Veterans who least deserved it. This will not go down without an explanation for exactly why it happened. Even though the flatbed truck driver looks to be in serios fault, blaming it on the flatbed driver alone will not be satisfactory.

Fred,

It's because of people like you, that nothing is ever resolved.

NO AMOUNT OF TRAIN HORNS WILL STOP STUPIDITY !!!

Trying to establish a connection between someone dying and someone's peacuful sleep is not only irresponsible, it shows just how TOTALLY OUT OF TOUCH you are with logic and common sense.

So Slurp, what would be your doctor feel good reasoning for a sign at a crossing that states "NO TRAIN HORN"? I'm sure it wasn't there to keep from waking the armadillos!

Another potential solution is for the city, state, feds, and railroad to get together and spend about $5-10 million per mile to elevate or trench the tracks through the city. When any of you have that kind of spare change lying about, be sure to let the City of Midland know so they can send you the bill.