Indeed. Other than giving the trolls some low hanging fruit to run off topic about. Sort of sums up everything about 27/7 news. Rush to print, details be damned!

That's for sure. And other news, someone dropped a stray kitten at my house. Neither the person shot nor the kitten are suspected in being where they shouldn't be or saying something that offended anyone.

It's a breaking story and last I heard, business is business so MSNBC posted it immediately without too many details (because they have no more at this time) then hope you revisit to see if the story was updated with more information.

"Business". Gotta start somewhere.

On another note, Pith is correct. You're going to have all the Anti-NRA guys come on here soon and do the "Blame The Gun" game.

You're going to have all the Anti-NRA guys come on here soon and do the "Blame The Gun" game.

So silly. The NRA is not the problem. People who are addicted to guns are the problem. The NRA is just the manifestation of this problem.

I love the 'blame the gun' argument. For some people, guns are like their children. You don't want to blame anyone's child for something.

When I was in school everyone had a knife but no one cared so I guess we had to wait for it to get completely out of control until we realize it's not the weapon - it's the moron holding the weapon.

Guns Guns this! Guns Guns that! Since we don't know anything about the shooting. Let us all pray for this girls recovery! Hopefully she makes it!

Another young victim of senseless gun violence, I pray this poor kid recovers. When will this gun madness end? Makes you wonder if the heartless lobbyists at the NRA have children.

the idea is to get as many hits on you article so start with no info and a promise for more if you just come back over and over again

its not the guns its the criminal thugs that werent killed off before they could reproduce creating the next generation of criminal thug.

In such a rush to get a story out, there are no details whatsoever.

IXLR8

What a non story and zero details. Why was this pasted on the front as big news? Get some selectivity hand have something more than a person was shot on a bus in Miami.

I agree...it would be more newsworthy to report that someone wasn't assaulted or shot while riding a school bus in Miami

...but don't worry, as the good people at the charter school have stated, it's only a "community situtation" - nothing to get too upset about

Davey, now law abiding gun owners are "addicts"? I would love to hear the rationale behind that statement, I don't see how exercising my second amendment right to keep and bear arms makes me an addict, please explain. Is it an illness? A compulsion?

Seems to me you're addicted to ignorance, fear and stupidity, you might want to get that checked out.

BTW great non-article NBC, couldn't have lived another moment without this information packed tidbit.

They updated the story to say it was a 'Girl'. Now we have narrowed it down by aprrox half the population.

Wonder how many dozen were shot in chicago last weekend?? Haven't heard much about that hellhole lately. AND, no, it's not the guns fault you anti gun idiots, it's the jerk behind the trigger!!!!!!!!!

I hope the girl recovers, and I hope the person who shot her gets whats coming to him. There are no details, so I will guess angry ex boyfriend, but really, it could be anything.

When will this gun madness end?

When will this CRIME madness end?

Maimed is maimed, killed is killed. It really doesn't matter if victim is shot, stabbed, strangled, bludgeoned, trampled, run over by a vehicle, or what have you. The result is severe and likely permanent injury or death.

The problem is that we have people in society, increasingly young people in society, who seem to feel that it's acceptable to do these things to other people for whatever the reason.

People who are addicted to guns are the problem.

People who have acquired a weapon (gun or otherwise) and are addicted to forcing their will upon others by intimidating and physically injuring them with the weapon(s) at their disposal are the problem.

Whatever weapon they use, most of the time they've only got one, total, or only one in their immediate possession, when they inflict harm upon other people.

Most people I have ever met who you could rightfully, albeit in exaggeration, claim are 'addicted to guns' seldom do anything to hurt anyone. The vast majority of the people I've encountered who do enjoy hurting people have a somewhat more difficult time acquiring weapons of any kind and take what they can get but usually only somewhat before they feel that they need that weapon. Most have the 'street smarts' to have learned it's best to not get caught with any weapons, so the pattern is acquire weapon, use weapon, dispose of weapon.

The NRA is just the manifestation of this problem.

Uh, right.

I'm hardly a member of the NRA and never really cared a whole lot for them, but I do know from having been around awhile and having been acquainted with enough people who are or have been NRA members to know full well that the people who commit crimes of violence and the people who join the NRA are two very different and mutually exclusive groups of people, and they are diametrically opposed to one another. It's about like a black man joining the KKK. It's not that it's never happened, but it's extremely rare. Has anyone who had a membership in the NRA ever done anything they shouldn't have and ended up being convicted of it? Well, any organization that's been around for over 140 years and has seen millions of members come and gone is going to have a few members it isn't exactly proud of. Seriously, if you are one to commit crimes but you try as hard as possible to avoid arrest and trial for those crimes, what would your point paying money to join the NRA be? If you want to make people think you DIDN'T have a firearm and thus couldn't have committed a shooting, assault with a deadly weapon, or robbery, you sure wouldn't want anything having to do with the NRA anywhere around you. This would probably be especially true if you are already a convicted felon who is barred from possessing firearms.

Florida -- again, Florida

Sorry for her family's loss; I'm sure her death was not optimal.

To the anti-gun knuckledraggers,

Are guns allowed on school buses? No, then how in the hell did the shooter get one on the bus? Doesnt he know its illegal. Oh, yeah, he's a criminal. Doesnt follow the whole law thing. But please, give us your guns. We want as few liberal morons as possible with guns so they dont accidently shoot anyone.

A story about a 13 year old that was shot by another student on a school bus is a non story? It seems that people are more worried what is said about a cold metal weapon than what happens to an innocent child in a seemingly safe place. Shameful. Evil. Stupidity.

@profreedom;

I am sure the NRA does not logically think guns belong at school or on a school bus. There have been three instances in Florida wher the citizens having a gun has saved the lives of others and the perp being caught, in the past 2 years.

We have very little circumctances. The girl might not have even been the target.

Why was this pasted on the front as big news?

You must be new to MSNBC/NBCNews. This is their daily dose of their anti-gun agenda. As others have previously stated also, this news media outlet also skews the stories by identifying/not identifying the victims and shooters. Historically, this media outlet will post the race if it was a white shooter and even moreso if the victim was black. Because of the lack of racial identification, can somebody please prove that this was NOT black-on-black crime?

Since this is just another of this news outlets M.O., where are all of the shootings that are happening in the rest of the country. Surely nobody believes that this is the ONLY gun-related killing in the country today. (Hint)Actions like this shooting are multiple-occurences in a single day in places like Detroit, Chicago, L.A., etc so this would fall on deaf ears.

So, some other persons child is killed in a horrible, senseless accident that should have never happened, and you think it's not news. I wonder how you'd feel if the child were your own?

Roger a few things for your post of pure ignorance.

Did you know it is illegal to have a gun on a school bus? It doesnt seem like this kid cared. Did you know that the cities that have banned concealed carry have the highest rate of gun violence.? It doesnt seem like the criminal cares. Murdering people is already illegal. Oh, but now we can get him on a weapons charge too. Awesome dude.

And the story was updated Roger. At first it said that they did not know the girls condition, nor who the shooter was. Know we know that she died sadly, and that the shooter was another student.

You are why we need guns in the US. Too many stupid people who can cause havok.

The problem with guns is it puts too much distance between you and the person you are killing. If the distance was lessened and more personal there would be less murders because up close it is a disgusting act.

I believe in the second amendment. ALL OF IT. Including the "Well regulated" part.

Roger,

I understand and respect your post however, disagree. Although MrBurns has a valid point, I disagree that you're the reason why we need guns in this country however, he's not happy with your posts decisions and slipped one out.

Look, there are gun "owners" and people who "obtain" guns illegally. There is a difference. They'll "never" go away dude. They've been here before your great, great, great grandfather was born.

It's like a rock collection. We like to collect, look and have a conversation about them. Then theres the bad guy who throws it at somebody, hits 'em in the head and kills him.

If that's all the good guy had in his hand for protection, he'll use it in self defense only. Get it!? Because if you don't, then maybe MrBurns "was" onto something.

Also, refrain from such course words as you wrote about the peoples posts versus the actual story. You need to "read" the very first posts of the highest ones. This will let you know if the story has been updated. It'll be obvious to you. Think about it, nobody (hardly) will blatantly post that they hope a victim lives and the top headlines says they died.

Have a nice day...

May this young soul rest in peace. Yet another senseless killing of a child. When is it going to end?

? Do they still have white people in Florida? how did the gun get on the buss? was it a legal gun or was it a illegal gun? if it was a legal gun I don't think it would have been there, if it was a illegal gun then there had to be a accomplice someone to help the gun get on the buss! those guns are sneaky critters.

In all seriousness a life was lost, family's are devastated, and people want to blame a object when you all know it was a human that is responsible. if there was that much hate and the desire to do evil existed and no gun was available then possibly a can of lighter fluid and a match would substitute as a weapon. we will know more as the story unfolds. whenever a gun commits a crime you can bet there is a human behind that gun, that is the real problem. should we outlaw people? how about we make people pass a test and buy a permit to have a baby. hay we can blame the buss for having a gun on board.

Lol, Ill admit it Creek Dog, I was baiting him a bit. I think this shooter is why we need guns, not some moron on a news website. Sometimes I get a bit carried away. lol

Well, we know it was a student who did the shooting, so, 1- the gun was possessed illegally, as most states ban ownership, or even possession, of a handgun if you are under the age of 21, unless you are accompanied by an adult. 2- most states ban possession of firearms in and around schools, this kid was taking a gun to school. 3 - the gun was stolen. How do I know that? Comment #1. He took it from someone or from somewhere, from someone else, most likely without their knowing so, theft. Even before he pulled the trigger, he committed several crimes. I own guns. I hate criminal acts, especially against children. I have children and grandchildren. my kids were taught proper gun safety, I do hope my grandchildren are similarly instructed. What, on God's green earth, would ever cause a person to want to kill or injure a child? As kids in the '60's and 70's, we had knives in our pockets at school, and guns in our vehicles at school. I never saw or heard about anyone getting stabbed or shot. We even played mumbly-peg on campus at lunch time, only occasionally sticking a knife into the leather of our shoe.

Did you know it is illegal to have a gun on a school bus?

Did you also know it also illegal to have a machine gun on that bus, or dynamite?

But, we have very good nationwide laws for the possession of machine guns and dynamite. So, it's really not a problem. See, good laws work!

But hand guns, well, pretty much anyone can get a hand gun. And then just leave it laying around the house. Not such good laws there.

When is it going to end?

When society grows a brain.

When society stops heaping benefits on mothers having SOB's!

Creek: "On another note, Pith is correct. You're going to have all the Anti-NRA guys come on here soon and do the "Blame The Gun" game."

Nah! Let's have more guns killing more 13 year old kids! Too bad all the children weren't armed, eh? Guns don't kill kids--kids kill kids, right?

data: "When society stops heaping benefits on mothers having SOB's!"

And what about the irresponsible SOBs who don't use birth control and abandon their kids?

I agree--did you notice how many posters could give a damn about the dead little girl but are all about how great guns are! Before even ONE poster had said ANYTHING "anti-gun," the gun addicts were all about how great guns are (e.g., Pith's comment: "It doesn't matter. 99% of the comments are going to consist of "Guns guns this." and "Guns guns that.")

No, Pith, actually 99% of the comments are all about how great guns are and very few even alluded to this child's unnecessary death! How about some compassion re: this little girl's death? Is that too much to ask?

Lol, Maxwell is at it again. Being a hypocrit about everything and ignorant to boot.

1. Guns are already banned on school buses and schools in general. Did you know there are shootings in Chicago? But you cant conceal carry there. How does this happen? Maybe some people dont follow the law.

2. Back to your man hate. Maybe both are the problem, but either way, the welfare rats do eat up lots of our tax money. And both mother and father are to blame. Happy?

3. Actually many of us, including me, expressed concern for the girl (this was before we knew she had died). Then I saw a bunch of illogical people such as yourself, come on and start blaming guns and insulting people. The first posts you do say how bad pro-gun people are, and you say nothing about being sorry for the girl. Look in the mirror. You'll see a hypocrit.

4. Do you think you are fooling anyone by voting for yourself?

Mr. Burns: "Lol, Maxwell is at it again. Being a hypocrit about everything and ignorant to boot."

LOL--I love you too, Mr. Burns! I love "mans" like you! ((BIG HUG)))

If this person really wanted this girl to die and didn't have a gun, they would have simply used a knife or bashed her head in with a rock, or heck, even a school book. Stupid/crazy THUGS will use anything to kill if they really want to do it. What are you dumb azzed libbies going to do, ban rocks, knives, hatchets, axes, 2 X 4's, sticks, belts, ice picks, razor blades, ball bats and any and all hard or sharp objects? Geez, what a bunch of stupid people.

If this person really wanted this girl to die and didn't have a gun, they would have simply used a knife or bashed her head in with a rock, or heck, even a school book. Stupid/crazy THUGS will use anything to kill if they really want to do it. What are you dumb azzed libbies going to do, ban rocks, knives, hatchets, axes, 2 X 4's, sticks, belts, ice picks, razor blades, ball bats and any and all hard or sharp objects?

true. Guns just make it really easy. But it you remove the easy way, you will reduce killing.

Analogy: without airplanes, people could still travel from New York to Paris. Airplanes just make it easy. Take away airplanes, and far fewer people would travel from New York to Paris.

Geez, what a bunch of stupid people.

hmmm

Mr B: "Do you think you are fooling anyone by voting for yourself?"

DO YOU?

Davey: " Guns just make it really easy. But it you remove the easy way, you will reduce killing."

Thank you, Davey! Let those with ears hear!

Mr. B: "Then I saw a bunch of illogical people such as yourself, come on and start blaming guns and insulting people. The first posts you do say how bad pro-gun people are, etc."

With respect, THAT'S A LIE! My 1st post said as follows (and I quote): "Nah! Let's have more guns killing more 13 year old kids! Too bad all the children weren't armed, eh? Guns don't kill kids--kids kill kids, right?"

Where did I even MENTION "pro-gun people" in this post? Where? Or are you saying guns DO kill kids--and kids with GUNS kill kids?

What's wrong, Mr. B? Did I hit a nerve?

ISLR8 - What a non story and zero details. Why was this pasted on the front as big news?

Because they wanted your attention. BINGO!

lol, your attempt at sarcasm is an attempted insult to people who you postulate come to this conclusion. You are a hypocrit because you got upset that people who support gun rights started defending themselves from people who only want criminals to have weapons. You said nothing about feeling sorry for the girl, or hoping she is ok (again, before we got the update that she had died). You just came in peddling your anti-gun bs while sarcastically making fun of a group who did not do what you claimed. My first post was about the child, yours was a backhanded attack on gun rights. Sorry you are unable to demonstrat basic reading comprehension.

I hate that someone so illogical and hypocritical has such an awesome name.

Ban handguns. Demonstrate correct spelling.

They won't be happy until we've rolled back the clock to the 1800's with everyone packing six-shooters on their hips- an already-proven failed attempt to keep society safe.

Failed? FAILED?? IT NEVER HAPPENED!

Outside of the US Army Cavalry, 'everyone packing six-shooters on their hips' exists only in Zane Grey novels and Hollywood westerns. There were far more people out there than there were revolvers manufactured, by a long shot, and they were too expensive for most people to justify spending the money on. They were also rather useless for most things in the west. Rifles were much preferred because of their vastly increased accuracy and effective range. If, for some reason, a rifle wouldn't do the job, the usual alternative was a shotgun loaded with buckshot, not a handgun.

The problem with guns is it puts too much distance between you and the person you are killing. If the distance was lessened and more personal there would be less murders because up close it is a disgusting act.

FYI...In reality, roughly 85% of handgun shootings occur in low light or darkness, and of those, a very high percentage occur at or just outside of 'contact' range, meaning the shooter either could or almost could have reached out and touched his victim with his hand at the time he squeezed the trigger.

I find it curious that everyone simply assumes the shooting was intentional.

I can see a strong possibility that the kid with the gun took it from wherever his father stored it. He was playing with it on the bus, perhaps showing it to a friend and it accidentally went off. There was no intent to shoot anyone.

In this scenerio the father bears some responsibility. He left the gun in a place his son get to. A son who obviously does not know anything about the dangers of firearms, nor how to handle them.

This has happened before...

I am so sorry for this family and what they will be dealing with for the rest of their lives. I have a 14 year old and could not even imagine what they are going through.

@Davey

So silly. The NRA is not the problem. People who are addicted to guns are the problem. The NRA is just the manifestation of this problem.

I love the 'blame the gun' argument. For some people, guns are like their children. You don't want to blame anyone's child for something.

How is the NRA a manifestation to the problem? By teaching about and protecting your 2nd Amendment rights, then yes the NRA is. To teach someone how to handle, clean, shoot, and storing ones firearms correctly, then yes they are. But does the NRA give the gun out? No, they do not. Do they provide training classes to men, women, and youths on how to use and gun and feel comfortable? Yes they do. By definition manifestation is an act of showing or demonstrating something. Not telling everyone to run out and get a gun, no matter how they get it and start shooting.

Being addicted to guns also is not the problem. PEOPLE are the problem and not using the laws we currently have in place is the problem. There are people who love to collect firearms from our history, however, they are not shooting people because they have more than one.

Well hi there you love the rain...

Don't BS me with the NRA as the benevolent teacher. The NRA is a gun special interest group and they have the killer instinct. Here is all you need to know about the NRA: The successfully lobbied congress to stop funding research into the effects that guns have. Knowledge is not the NRAs friend.

If you are not aware of this, then search the internet with this: NCIPC NRA

The real problem is hand guns. Not rifles, not shot guns. Many people can legally purchase a hand gun, and that makes it very easy for them to be obtained illegally. People think that a hand gun can protect them. Make them safe. But the FBI stats on deaths caused by guns tells another story. Murder is much more common that justifiable homicide. You are safer without a hand gun. But people play the game, and they buy a hand gun.

How nice. How quaint. Some people collect antique hand guns. Yes, I agree, those people are not a problem. Lots of people have hand guns and keep them safe. But some do not and the result is death and tragedy and ruined lives.

You say that you have a 14 year old daughter. That is wonderful. I have children younger than that. I think my children would be safer in a country that has fewer hand guns. I don't understand why you do not feel the same way.

Hi Davey,

It is not BS. As I stated, NRA also educates and helps Americans keep their 2nd Amendment rights. We can agree that we will ALWAYS disagree with the NRA and what you think they are about.

I will definitely look into what you stated regarding NCIPC NRA. Thanks!

The real problem is hand guns. Not rifles, not shot guns. Many people can legally purchase a hand gun, and that makes it very easy for them to be obtained illegally. People think that a hand gun can protect them. Make them safe. But the FBI stats on deaths caused by guns tells another story. Murder is much more common that justifiable homicide. You are safer without a hand gun. But people play the game, and they buy a hand gun.

Hand guns do protect people, as well as shot guns and rifles. The sound of you loading the shot gun usually scares the crap out of an intruder, without even pointing it. And I do also agree with the FBI statistic, however, do you know any statistics on protecting your home and life? Gun purchase up, Violence down: FBI Stats; June 2011

Violent Crime

• In 2011, all four of the violent crime offense categories—murder and nonnegligent manslaughter, forcible rape, robbery, and aggravated assault—declined nationwide when compared with data from 2010. Murder and nonnegligent manslaughter declined 1.9 percent, while forcible rape, robbery, and aggravated assault each declined 4.0 percent.
• Violent crime declined in all city groups. Cities with populations of 50,000 to 99,999 saw the largest decrease (5.2 percent) in violent crime. Violent crime decreased 6.6 percent in metropolitan counties and 4.7 percent in nonmetropolitan counties.
• Within city groups, murder and nonnegligent manslaughter offenses increased the most (18.3 percent) in cities with populations under 10,000. Cities with populations of 50,000 to 99,999 showed the largest decrease of murder and nonnegligent manslaughter offenses (14.4 percent).
• All city groupings experienced a decline in forcible rapes except in cities with 500,000 to 999,999 inhabitants, which had the increase in forcible rapes (0.5 percent). Forcible rape offenses declined 6.8 percent in metropolitan counties and 9.0 percent in nonmetropolitan counties.
• Robbery offenses decreased in all city groupings, with the greatest decrease (5.3 percent) in cities with 50,000 to 99,999 inhabitants. Robberies decreased 7.5 percent in metropolitan counties and 3.6 percent in nonmetropolitan counties.
• Aggravated assaults decreased in all city groups. Cities with 50,000 to 99,999 inhabitants experienced the largest decrease at 5.3 percent. Aggravated assaults declined in both county groups, with a decrease of 6.3 percent in metropolitan counties and 4.2 percent in nonmetropolitan counties.
• Violent crime decreased in all four regions (4.9 percent in the Midwest, 4.7 percent in the West, 4.5 percent in the South, and 0.8 percent in the Northeast).

Property Crime

• Nationally, the property crime offense categories of larceny-theft and motor vehicle theft decreased in 2011 when compared with 2010 data. Motor vehicle theft dropped 3.3 percent, and larceny-theft decreased 0.9 percent. However, burglary offenses increased 0.3 percent.
• Property crime increased 0.3 percent in cities with 250,000 to 499,999 inhabitants and increased 0.1 percent in cities with 10,000 to 24,999 in population. Decreases in property crime were reported in all other city groupings. Property crime decreased 1.4 percent in metropolitan counties but increased 2.6 percent in nonmetropolitan counties.
• Burglary offenses increased 1.2 percent in cities with 50,000 to 99,999 persons, which is the largest increase reported within city groupings. Burglaries increased 1.0 percent in nonmetropolitan counties.
• Larceny-theft offenses decreased in all city groupings except those with populations of 250,000 to 499,999, which had an increase of 0.2 percent, and those with fewer than 10,000 inhabitants, which showed virtually no change. Larceny-thefts increased 4.1 percent in nonmetropolitan counties.
• Motor vehicle thefts declined in all population groupings. Cities with 100,000 to 249,999 inhabitants experienced the largest decline at 4.3 percent. Metropolitan counties reported a 6.1 percent decrease in motor vehicle thefts.
• Three of the nation’s regions had decreases in property crime in 2011 when compared with data from 2010. These offenses declined 1.3 percent in the South, 0.8 percent in the West, and 0.4 percent in the Midwest. However, property crimes increased 0.2 percent in the Northeast.

Arson

• Arson offenses, which are not included in property crime totals, decreased 5.0 percent nationwide. Arsons declined in all four regions in 2011, with the Northeast experiencing the largest decrease (12.3 percent).

Yes, purchasing the hand gun and it does make them easier to obtain illegally, but what does this have to do with the NRA?

I also agree with need few guns but again, what does this have to do with the NRA? We need law enforcement, State and Federal government, without taking away our 2nd Amendment rights, to fix this.

There was a story some time ago about a 12 year old girl, who had been taught correctly on how to shoot a hand gun. An intruder broke down the back door, came looking for her, found her hiding in the closet and she shot him. That is why we have guns. That is why my daughter is trained how to shoot and handle her gun properly. My husband is a Military man and is gone often, including 2 years in Iraq. There are many many bad people out there, who do not care if they hurt someone. I like having my gun, just in case I need to my family. I would rather be safe than sorry.

www.opposingviews.com/i/society/guns/gun-sales-violent-crime-down-again

What is the link between nationwide crme rates and gun purchases?

I guess all of you blaming guns for this poor girl's death would feel better if she had been stabbed with a knife! Maybe you would feel better if she had been attacked with a compass or do they even require those deadly instruments in school anymore? The teenager that had this gun broke all of the gun control laws that liberals could think of. Someone, including the shooter has broken the law and left a gun in the reach of a minor. The gun would not have been involved had the law not been broken even before the shooting.

Fatal Shooting ... pretty much precludes recovery. Once, the body is pronounced "fatal injury" - it takes an act of God to provide a full recovery.

MrBurns

I hope the girl recovers, and I hope the person who shot her gets whats coming to him. There are no details, so I will guess angry ex boyfriend, but really, it could be anything.

What do you expect from NBC the non-news subsidiary of the DNC?

Not as many shootings kills the intruder than the legal guns that kills others and the gun accidents. Mainly spouses killing spouses .. many short tempered people would kill while carring a gun. Lets go back to the wild west and instead of hiding the gun you are so proud of carry them out in the open.

Hey, thats an idea bdjb for lack of common sense, call the author profane names and maybe that will motivate her to listen to you and take your advice!

Hwy, bdjb - How about you learn to discuss without resorting to namecalling? Is that possible or are you the b*&%#?

Wow. You kooks are SO busy justifying your love of guns that you can't dig deep down and find one iota of empathy for the family of the young victim.

@ Pedestrian

Everyone feels sorry about the loss of an innocent child, but the course of discussion has changed for this thread. It has somehow become a discussion about guns. No one has posted anything about not having sympathy for the victim, but gun owners are being targeted as "kooks" and other derogatory terms. Gun owners are simply defending their position on guns. Gun owners are saying that it is not the fault of the gun, but the fault of the killer, which is true. Any other opinion is intellectual dishonesty.

If a child was killed on a school bus by another student under the exact same circumstances save one ..... the girl was stabbed to death instead of being shot, would we be arguing about the evils of knives or simply discussing the evil person that committed the crime? I think every honest person here knows the answer to that question. The answer does not involve banning knives.

Grow up. Guns are not the problem in our society. Too many sick and morally depraved citizens are the problem in our society.

Bdjb: "Not as many shootings kills the intruder than the legal guns that kills others and the gun accidents."

That's right! How about that vet that walked into the cop station last week and shot a cop in the neck--before being the cops killed him. And you won't find a more heavily-armed workplace ANYWHERE! But all that saved the cops was their bullet-proof glass!

OOBuck: "Guns are not the problem in our society. Too many sick and morally depraved citizens are the problem in our society."

Well, by your OWN logic, if we DO indeed have "too many sick and morally depraved citizens in our society"--do you really think arming them all is such a great idea? SERIOUSLY?

OOBuck,

Unfortunately, those "sick and morally citizens" are indeed the problem. The question no one seems to answer is how do we keep guns away from them? There is nothing wrong with background checks, safety courses, barring ex felons from owning guns, and regulating the sales of bullets. If someone has to register to get a handgun, there are no black helicopters...no secret army somewhere, waiting to invade us because of gun registration. At least lets keep guns away from criminals. This automatic reaction against sensible gun laws seems mighty freaky to a lot of normal citizens.

George - Come on, NBC, if you don't have any information, then sit on it until you do!

The news business is too competitive to wait for details. What if they waited for a body count when the Hindenburg blew up? You'd complain about why you weren't told sooner. That's just the way it is. (Don't say "What's a Hindenburg?") Look it up.

I have sympathy for people who have to live in the gun crazy USA....very sad, a maniacal place,you nation is.

I was in Hawaii for a 10 day vacation over New Years.

In Hawaii you can only light up fireworks on New Years Eve.,. The stores just sell fireworks, without the bang, beginning two weeks earlier than New Years. My girlfriend loves the fireworks. She noticed that you can buy GUNS and AMMO all over Hawaii, even in Walmart and K-Mart, EVERY DAY. She said "What an odd nation is America, you can buy all kinds of guns anytime you want, but you cannot buy fireworks except for one day !

30% of all the fires in the State of Hawaii happen on New Years Eve.

Fry his punk ass. Let the punishment fit the crime. He is trying to be a gangster or is it gangsta now, and shot an innocent kid so he needs to die also. I don't care if he is a teenager he did an adult act and needs the same punishment as an adult.

If anti gun comments upset a person so much, why even go to the Comments? I love how conservatives think they have some special powers of conversion. I also love how they think their - in your face methods - are an effective method of supporting their arguments. It isn't the guns we dislike - it's the rude manor in which people defend them. If they have this little self control in defending guns - what other emotions do they have problems with?

Resorting to emotions only escalates problems. Resorting to the collapse feature would be my first clue that someone has poblems with hearing a counter argument - again, emotions over ruling any logical, calm, rhetorical argument. The last person I want owing a gun is the person who would rather shoot you (or collapse you) than sit down and reach a balanced solution.

The "I want it all" mentality - isn't healthy - you end up like Ted Nugent (having to buy your friends).

The problem is not the legal guns... It is the illegal ones... You can control them until the end of time, but some ijit is going to find one or buy one on the black market and then what good is your gun control measures?

@ Maxwell's Silver Hammer - Your response to my post is as follows:

"Well, by your OWN logic, if we DO indeed have "too many sick and morally depraved citizens in our society"--do you really think arming them all is such a great idea? SERIOUSLY?"

Wow ! You either dont comprehend what is written, or you just simply wont acknowledge an opposing point of logic. I NEVER stated or even IMPLIED that arming sick or morally depraved people is a "great idea." I NEVER stated that arming everyone in society is the thing to do. You have taken my statement, and twisted the words to reflect what you want it to mean, even though there is nothing to support your interpretation. That is really sad Maxwell. Only a fool would support arming sick and twisted people. But, I do not see anything wrong with the average law abiding citizen being armed for his or her own protection, and the protection of his or her family from the sick and depraved that I refered to. You know whom I speak of ...... like the people who get on school buses and shoot innocent children. Maxwell, do you have a problem with people defending themselves from being raped or murdered? I hope not. With that logic, you would have no right to defend yourself or your children. IMHO a person would would not defend his children from violent attack has no right to breath good air. There are some very mean and dangerous people in our society that would love to do harm to you for a crisp new $20.00 bill. Good luck out there with that "silver hammer".

@ JP Patches

You certainly stated many valid points, but I dont think that conservatives have the monopoly on those attributes that you pin on us. I think that ANYONE liberal or conservative that is too far to the right or left can be guilty of those behaviors. I think if you look at some of the anti-gun posts, some of them are quite rude.

I agree that there needs to be a balance. It just seems that as time goes by, that ballance continues to go farther to the left. Where in your opinion is the "fair balance" or "happy medium"? I think it is fair to say that firearm ownership is a constitutional right. At least it is now, but lets see how that fair balance thing works out. It continues to amaze me how liberals will defend the most liberal interpretation of EVERY consitutional ammendment .... except the second ?????

Trying to limit/ban guns is like trying to limit/ban teenage sex. You will have very little good results. The key is information. If a person wants to kill someone bad enough he is going to with or without a gun. Accidents happen with cleaning solutions that kill kids, but we don't ban or regulate those either. That being said, the parent that leaves a loaded gun out for a kid to play with is just as stupid as the one who leaves the Clorox next to the milk.

And as far as gun rampages go, same logic applies. If someone wants badly enough to kill large scales of people, then they will through the use of poisons or home made explosives. Guns are just the lowest hanging fruit in most cases. If you think banning guns or further regulations on them will lower these sort of things I believe you are mistaken.

OOBuck, the fact that you broad label all liberals is a sign of ignorance. I consider myself liberal on most issues, including guns. I find it just as amusing that those supposedly for more personal rights (right leaning idealist) are also for limiting personal rights they don't like such as; strip clubs, beer/liquor sales, planed parenting, ect. But I don't feel it is all of them. Just the stupid ones.

@ Joe 32

I am not saying all liberals oppose guns, I'm just saying that most people who oppose guns are liberals. In general I believe that statement to be a fact. Maybe I am ignorant. I just havent seen any self identified liberal organizations supporting / defending any kind of individual firearms rights or fighting against anti-gun laws. The reverse is true of self proclaimed conservative groups. Your last paragraph begins to cloud the issues between liberal and conservatives. Firearms is strictly a political issue. You bring up strip clubs, beer/liquor and "planned parenting" which includes abortion. These are issues that are very much guided by ones religious beliefs. For example - In general, African American churches are typically politically liberal (democrats), but in general they do not support gay marriage, which is a political adgenda PRIMARILY supported by the typically left leaning democratic party. In this area African American churches are guided more by their religious beliefs than their tendency to politically lean to the left.

I think in these discussions we have to except that there is no such thing as an absolute, but in general the following is typical. If you dont think so, votes are publicly available.

Republicans = Conservative = Pro gun

Democrat = Liberal = Anti gun

By the way ..... you write " I consider myself liberal on most issues including guns." Soooooo, what does that mean? How do you feel about guns? The typical liberal position on guns is "get rid of them", but I dont want to "broad label" you out of ignorance.

I support the 2nd Amendment - however I also believe that as a Gun Owner you are responsible for the weapon at all times. If this turns out to be registered to one of the parents then they should also be held accountable to some extent for not having a trigger lock on the gun as well as having it in a sercured location like a lock box.

Very sad day for the family of the victim - I have a 13 year old daughter and I couldn't imagine ever getting a call like they did and hope that I never will.

@Pedestrian:

Wow. You kooks are SO busy justifying your love of guns that you can't dig deep down and find one iota of empathy for the family of the young victim

There are a lot of people who have sympathy for this child. Unfortunately, it has become people defending their 2nd Amendment. I am sure there has been more information released on this story but I have not seen any. If the guy who shot the gun took it from his parents because it was not locked up, we have IRRESPONSIBLE gun owners. That is one huge problem. If you a gun, you MUST take the necessary steps to protect that gun from getting in the hands of someone who knows nothing about them.

If we got rid of everything that can be used to kill someone, we would all be walking around naked. Clothes can be made into a garrotte. You can run over people with cars. Trees and wood can be fashioned into spears as can rocks be made into spear heads. People were killing people long before the invention of gun powder. If you want someone gone you certainly do not need a gun. I saw an episode of the program Lockup...Europe. They were interviewing an inmate that had been sentenced for murdering his wife. The reporter asked the man why did he stab his wife? He answered "because I did not have a gun!" That was not the answer she was looking for as she was inquiring about his motive. However, his answer struck me as extremely funny (his answer not the murder) but it did tell us the truth. If someone wants to kill they do not have to wait around until they have a gun.

Thank you Valid Viewpoint - could not have said it better.....

Gee so sorry that people keep shooting people instead of animals. When someone shoots a 13 year old with a gun in a suburban area - that's news.

Perhaps the individuals who don't like NBC's news content could go elsewhere - free country - if you don't like what's on TV - change the channel!

Go over to Fox where you can get as much misinformation and they will change the story to suit your needs or do whatever you want.

Valid,

From your last sentence....

• Yet...

Odd... I've never heard the NRA advocate arming school students. Pass me some of your kool-aid (if you have any left)... I'm bound to come around eventually...

We can't - you are all over your Kool-Aid limit.

Odd... I've never heard the NRA advocate arming school students.

LOLOL.

They don't do it in the open. They slip the firearms in to the school nurse to distribute with the condoms for bangin'.

It's done with subterfuge. The NRA is not dumb enough to arm school children openly.

The NRA is a tool for the arms manufacturer they have brain washed people in joining their organization and claiming it to be membership owned while its actually owned and financed by the makers of guns.

Invalid, when America no longer has urban cesspools filled with gangbangin' miscreants, illegal alien criminals, hopped up druggies, etc,..then we can truly begin to have a discussion comparing the US to these other 1st world utopias that you allude to. If the US is truly to become a beacon upon the global hill, then we need to take out all the trash that clouds the view. Gun haters are simply using inanimate objects as a scapegoat to deflect attention away from the true ills that infect our society. Criminals/sociopaths are the problem--not hunks of metal and plastic. Eliminate the criminal and you eliminate the source of crime.

Clayton-548726

The NRA is a tool for the arms manufacturer they have brain washed people in joining their organization and claiming it to be membership owned while its actually owned and financed by the makers of guns.

I can see you now at the gun fight with a knife.... Look real close at you with your knife trying to protect yourself from the guy with the gun...

You can have my gun when you take it from my cold dead hand.......

First world??? What exactly are we first at? Please tell me. First in people in prison. First in per capita spending on weapons and first in number of people who believe angels are real. Name me some more if you can.

ValidViewpoint, too bad you don't have one! It would seem Pith Helmet's original post was correct, and you and Clayton wasted no time proving it!

Actually LynyrdSky, we are not the first in believing in Angels. Many Latin American countries are far more religious, same with Africa. So your dumb little attack on the US shows just who the true moron really is.

A student was shot. Not a gang-banger. Not a thug. A student.

Somebody needs to go back an re-read the story. This article said very little about the victim. There was a lot more info regarding the shooter, other students on the bus, the school, the administration, etc.

But Lizzie Chuck has just put another mark in her "sucker" column because she has you into her anti-gun agenda article. Let me help interrpret for her:

Police have not yet determined a motive for the shooting.

She meant to say "another senseless killing with a gun." But if she had she would have revealed her true agenda.

@ Michelle3333

Be careful what you wish for . . . . When someone does take that gun from your " cold dead hands " One less gun on the planet, yours !

A child shot on a school bus is big news, whether or not all the details are known to the media prior to publication.

You posters who have ignored the tragedy of a child being shot on a school bus and have focused on an opportunity to carp about the news medias premature reporting, as in not having enough details for you -- is incredible. Do you have any idea how shallow your post seems?

There's a time and a place for airing petpeeves,this is not one of them, If you must, at least, acknowledge some humanity and compassion for the child.

Seems to me the only ones looking for "gun answers" to all their problems are the thugs, gang-bangers, drug peddlers, etc. How many NRA members have been responsible for school bus shootings? Or movie theater shootings? Or gas station robberies? Always seems to be the non-NRA members doing that stuff.

as a member of the NRA - No, the NRA does NOT advocate arming children. In fact, the Eddie Eagle program states specifically "See a gun, leave it alone. Call an adult..." It is not arming everyone that the NRA advocates, it is proper gun safety and handling, and for adults, the unrestricted freedom to choose whether or not to even own a gun. Before you slam the NRA, please do some fact-checking.

As to the 2nd Amendment, I am both an attorney and a historian. The 2nd Amendment was put in place not for hunting or self defense, it was intended to ensure an armed populace could defend against a tyrannical government. Since neither the National Guard or any military Reserves existed at that time, and even a standing army was frowned on, it cannot be construed to mean a modern reservist. In fact, the militia at the time was the local adult male population, generally beginning at age 15 or 16, meeting together and drilling in marching and shooting as a unit. It was often commanded by a local minister, as that was usually the man most people trusted more than any other. Again, please do some fact-checking before spouting off.

Finally, I despise anyone who would harm a child. I hope they charge the shooter as an adult. The only problem is, there is no death penalty for anyone who commits a crime when under the age of 18, and not even a guarantee of going to prison for life anymore. Someone in our society decided "children" cannot be held responsible no matter how heinous the crime.

Jon-2149156

As a historian, do you find the fact that we did not have an Army when this amendment was carried, and that the tyrannical government was England a minor detail? Because we have an army that does the fighting for us now... Or, do you think the members of our government wanted us to be armed so we could kill them if we found that taxes were too high?

I know for a fact my school had a big debate over whether or not students should be allowed to keep and own guns in the dorms, lockers or vehicles on school property, and to carry on campus... and the NRA flooded the campus with pro-gun fliers, petitioners, and propaganda.

So I will never be convinced that the NRA isn't interested in arming students and allowing guns in schools. I'm sure this school bus shooter was just "standing his ground," right?

do you find the fact that we did not have an Army when this amendment was carried, and that the tyrannical government was England a minor detail?

It was ratified in 1791 and we still had an Army, and at the Constitutional Convention the the issue was over the level of control that the federal government would have over the militias. A tyrannical U.S. government was more of a concern than a British one. The Second Amendment grew out of that dispute at the Convention.

Cameron Ford

I know for a fact my school

Was that a middle school?

A 2 yr old girl was murdered in Atlanta earlier this week after being stabbed 7 times in the chest by her Stepsister that was babysitting her. We should ban knives. Afterall, they aren't protected by the CONSTITUTION!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

and the NRA flooded the campus with pro-gun fliers, petitioners, and propaganda.

There is a big difference between a piece of paper and a piece of refined steel loaded with explosive properties.

So I will never be convinced that the NRA isn't interested in arming students and allowing guns in schools.

The NRA is interested in arming students - with the knowledge and opportunity to make a choice whether to carry a gun on campus. From your comments you've bought into the anti-gun propaganda so what is wrong with propaganda? Is it wrong becasue it opposes your view.

This is like the pro-life (anti NRA) vs pro-choice (pro NRA) debate. The pro-choice people feel they should be allowed to choose whether to have an abortion or not. It isn't that they feel everybody has to have an abortion but that everybody should be allowed the choice. The pro-NRA people feel the same way - you are not required to carry a gun but should be allowed to choose to carry a gun. Just like the anti-abortion people think that pro-choice means you are pro-abortion, the the anti-gun people think that pro-gun people think you must carry a gun.

Oh God - give me a break, you jerk!

Yea and we probably don't want to live where you're living either. How's your fall weather going for you? We are enjoying temps in the mid 70's today. Ahhh the warmth!

How do you "Stand Your Ground" on a school bus? Soon, very soon, school buses will have "Check You Gun" boxes next to the driver.

Please don't encourage People to come here. This is why Florida is so screwed up now.

I love Florida but hate the crooked republican politics thats down here. Have the biggest crook for governor that helped run the medicare progam into trouble by stealing from it. Worst governor in historyit seems at least the lowest rated one.

Please don't visit either....

Don't worry been there and it is nothing more than an overpopulated swamp with stifling humidity.

Hey Clayton, I think you're a little confused! The state doesn't have anything to do with Medicare. Apparently you're thinking about Medicaid, a state administered program. But then nobody expects you libs to get anything right anyway! You think you have the worst governor ever? We'll trade you, I'm sure you'll love Gov. Moonbeam! Hell, we'll even throw in a "bullet train!"

I've never really cared for all the fire ants roaming around Florida, but Disney is pretty nice. Anyhow, I will stick with the 4 seasons here in Michigan. (although winter doesn't seem to have the same punch as in the old days) (Oops, created an opening for the global warming crowd, my bad)

All you guys crack me up with Florida sucks and you would never live there blah, blah, blah... I find Florida beautiful and live in NJ. I love the PalmTrees. The thick grass. The weather. Fishin'... I can go on forever. And this would be for just about any state.

• I LOVE AMERICA!!!

I see posts that say "Florida" again!......Bid freakin' deal. This @!$%# happens in "EVERY" state so why pick on Florida? WTF man.

There are so many people who say their state is the best and all that. Well?! I can't blame you. After all, you're payin' all the taxes and not somebody else so what the hell else are you gonna say?!

Bottom line is RIP to this poor child who didn't have a real chance at life yet. Senselessly snuffed out by some tuff guy that ain't so tuff now..... F'n a-hole man....

OldDog47__I'm not cofused ypou are I didn't say Medicare was state run but I know that the Florida govrnor was the CEO of the nationwise Columbia hospitals and they were the ones that commited fraud on medicare. Scott plead the fith admendment 17 times when he appearer in front of congress and recieved the largest fine ever for the fraud. Everything I said it a known fact. Scott has the lowest rating of any Florida governor.

Even as I had left Florida, far enough wasn't far enough.

Have the biggest crook for governor that helped run the medicare progam into trouble by stealing from it.

Wait till you see what your president is going to do to your medicare entitlement program. You ain't seen the scale of "stealing" he has enacted.

Worst governor in historyit seems at least the lowest rated one.

Must be trying to match your current president's record.

Apparently, Old Dog 47 knows nothing about Gov. Skeletor's committing MEDICARE fraud before he was governor--had nothing to do with the state-run program. But that's typical of Teabaggers--speak stupidity first, check facts later, then deny them.

I've lived there but that was years ago before the gun nuts took over the state, but even then it was the most miserable year of my life. It's hot, humid, bug infested place full of red necks working for minimum wages.

But back to the story: The shooter was probably standing his ground because he felt his life was threatened by this little girl.

And how's Zimmerman doing these days? Is he still patrolling his neighborhood looking for teenage black kids wearing hoodies?

Ummm yeah........ underage kid carrying a gun to school..... that will not fly at all genius.

Zimmerman is in jail. However this kid got this gun, it was illegal. Most likely from his home and I speculate that he was showing off with it and shot that little girl. Hopefully there will be a follow up on this story. Children should not have access to weapons. I did not own a gun until all my kids were grown. I know for some families in very bad areas they feel the need to keep one but for crying out loud keep it away from the kids. Even now when I am not going to be in the house I take it with me so if there is a break in they won't get the weapon (I have concealed permit). When the grandkids are here, it is secured where there is no possible way they can get to it.

The details don't really matter. Since when do we need to be concerned that our kids or any kids might be shot on their school bus? What is happening to America?

Save our kids!

Most of these people are mainly waiting to find out what race. I don't give a hoot, who ever it was

needs to be shot the same way the victim was.

well lets see here: overpopulation, immagration (keep them all out for now), under educated children (not saying these children were), A government that is totally out of control, States wanting to elude the union, A justice system that is uneffective, I can go on and on. Saving our kids only works for those who care and our government doesent care for anything but there agenda defined by the elite (destroy america as slowly as possible so they dont see it comming).

What?

Alain Deflandre

Lets bring back all the LAWS that the REPUKES and the LOBBYIST have KILLED regarding CONTROLS.

This is absurd only in the USA can we just shoot and kill with these weapons. We are not in the WILD WEST FOLKS.

This whole article has zero substance and is poorly written without any facts or merit or meaning other then to enrage people about guns.

This article was written to stir up the hot button topic of GUNS by NBC and their EXTREME liberal agenda.

The infotainment tabloid writing of NBC (NOT NEWS) worked on you very well and you took the entertainment with and agenda BAIT.

To Elizabeth Chuck : How much do you get paid to write this total non-news tabloid crap? Your tabloid articles are the worst. TMZ and NBC are about the same level.

Wow, you have to be one of the dumbest idiots in the USA..only in America? I DARE you to go spew your crap anywhere in the mideast, heck head down to Mexico even and spew that crap. You would last about 5 minutes before you were shot.

RESPONSIBILITY is the biggest word for lib's it seems, because very few can comprehend it. Responsibilty holds the person accountable for their acts, not the inanimate object it was done with. A responsible person respects their firearms and knows when to use it, like when those lil libs try to break into their home to steal [because they do not want to work], or try to forcibly take a woman [because it is not his fault he can't have a relationship] that is a prime time to utilize the wepon of choice.

The most POPULAR reason to responsibly have a firearm[s], is to keep people like you and the goverment from flat out steam rolling us. You will NEVER take away all the firearms because the people will not allow it and the whiners like you will be the first to fall.

Now you have something to troll about.

"Liberals like Alain don't think it is an actual word let alone an action one should or actually must take for themselves."

Not so; liberals definitely believe in "responsibility" when it means someone disagreeing with them or their world-view. Otherwise, I agree completely.

We could start by feeding the shooters to sharks. Then evaluate the results in a year or two.

Why don't you ask the people in Chicago and DC? The most restricted sufficating gun laws in the country and ask them how's their crime rate? Scumbag theifs and criminals don't care about laws. All it does is restrict the law biding citizens from protecting themselves.

I totally agree. Ask the State Of Israel what would happen to it if it willing disarmed itself -- DUH! -- the same thing that happens to the Chicagoans and D.C.ans.

And you never hear of anyone being murdered unless a gun is involved... oh, wait...

And you never hear of an auto killing someone unless a auto is involved...oh, wait....

And you never hear of anyone being murdered unless a knife is involved...oh, wait....

And you never hear of anyone choking to death unless chugging cock was involved...oh, wait...

Yep, the purpose of my automobile is to kill or maim.... oh, wait....

Guns don't kill, the bullets kill. Let's outlaw bullets, but then only outlaws would have bullets. The rest would probably just use the gun as a blunt object to beat someone to death with.

Did you know that a common thing amoung almost all murders is the presence of oxygen? We should investigate into how oxygen is causing all these murders.

Nitrogen makes up most of the atmosphere. That said; even though it is generally non-reactive, maybe we should check into the possibility of it causing this as well. Let's not leave out carbon dioxide, argon, and the rest. Yet another study to remove responsibility from the perps. LOL, I like you, Mr. Burns!

"

Yourekidding-1544479

Yep, the purpose of my automobile is to kill or maim.... oh, wait...."

If that was the intent at the time....... then yes! Don't know about you, but my firearm's purpose is to maintain my life against yahoos who would shoot a 13 yr old girl on a bus.

Anti-gun chump!

The best possible solution is give the victims parents the weapon and 5 minutes to forgive or punish the killer. It is called justice.

I like your posts too Mike C. lol

Great post BC! Inescapable logic!

I see most of the other comments to your post are by people that can't read and comprehend the written word.

Amajority of these shooting like the mass killings lately has been done with legal guns held by killers that legally bought them They weren't done by ones that was criminals before ththe killing !! Assault rifles has no business on the market for they were maked for a human killing machine This shooter was probably another kid and had a gun that was legally owned by his parents. Most illegal guns have been stolen from legal gun owners.

Clayton, just how many assault rifle crimes are there? Not many. A semi auto pistol will do more damage and is much easier to conceal. Your comment that assault rifles are human killing machines is absurd. I have yet to see an assault rifle wake up one day and go, I am going killing today. It is inanimate, and does not move unless a real HUMAN KILLLING MACHINE picks it up and uses it.

By your way of thinking, all automobiles should be banned as they are human killing machines, but only when some idiot texting is behind the wheel.

I have respect for opinions, I have respect for others, but not when they simply repeat what has been crammed down their throat because they do not have the common sense to logically research what they support.

Life must suck when you just blindly follow the path laid out before you. Have you not ever heard the term: believe none of what you hear and only half of what you see. Their is truth in that. Free thinking is amazing, but lost on the majority now.

The details don't really matter. Since when do we need to be concerned that our kids or any kids might be shot on their school bus? What is happening to America?

Save our kids!

Americans first--You asked how many ?? LOTS OF THEM !! Look at all those that has been used in mass murders just recently . When an assualt rifle is used it usualy many killed instead of just one or two. Also makes the killer better armed than the police that hasn't one available.

Common sense tells me that there is too many murders, gun accidents , people legally carring guns that has no business to. Concealed gun license is really a license to kill while they call it "Stand Your Ground". Here in Florida there has been many felons that was able to go free because of the Stand Your Ground laws . Read where one dope dealer went free twice killing for he pled self defense even when one he killed was unarmed. Regardless of what you said about assualt riflres they are manufactured for killing and not meant for hunting. The NRA fanantics beleive every thing that the gun manufactures tells them I'm not one that is so easy to brainwash__I think for myself and don't let the NRA, Fox, Rush tell me how to think.

Clayton, is English your second language, or did you just ditch school a lot? I guess nobody had to worry about you getting shot on the school bus!

I think for myself

HA! GOOD ONE!!

@Clayton-548726

I think for myself

I sincerely hope you truly believe that. At least you'll have ONE individual that believes it.

Clayton, if you can legally purchase a gun, of course criminals will buy guns from the legal places. Its cheaper, duh. You make it illegal, and regular citizens stop buying them, and criminals buy them on the open market. And of course we have assault rifle deaths. Obama decided it would be a good idea to let Mexican cartels have a few guns, to you know, stop gun violence.

Liberals stance on guns. Give them freely to criminals, stop at nothing to get them out of the hands of law abiding citizens.

Keep letting NBC tell you how to think.

OldDog47 You are lacking in the upper story. I am probably as much if not more educated than you and half the southern uneducated teabaggers. You call yourself old I assure you that I am much older than you I was borned when Coolidge was president I remember the Hoover Days

Mr Burns you are way off base in your thinking that was Bush that started sending the guns to the cartels research it and you will learn something.

There is more guns thats killing innocent people than there are killing in self defense. Gun crazy fools_— must admit I have several in my family that has assault rifles also seen some unlawful bullets they had that was marked for law enforcement only.

Lol Clayton, here you are spewing garbage again. I see dementia has gotten to you. How sad. Uneducated teabaggers. Yup, definitely a smart guy arent you. I bet dollar to donuts I am way more educated than you. At least with information that is not outdated. Bush didnt send guns to cartels. He followed the flow of guns, decided it was dangerous and stoped. Obama gave them guns, tried to follow them, got caught up with his celebrity necessities, and lost track of a weapon that killed a border agent. And you are making the assumption that I like Bush in any way based off of what?

I dont own guns, I just value rights. And yeah, guns kill more people than self defense. But you left off the whole point how many of those killings take place in states, cities, building, etc, where you cannot carry guns.

Here is a logical point for you. Yes, I know you dont know logic, but Ill spell it out nice and easy for you old timer. How many shooting have taken place at gun shows and NRA meetings? How many have taken place at schools and Chicago? May I rest my case or do you have more b.s. you want to say?

If you were born on the day that Coolidge took office you would have been roughly 9 years and 10 months old when Hoover left office. Yes you probably remember alot about it.

I bet the shooter looked like Obama's son.

"Amajority of these shooting like the mass killings lately has been done with legal guns held by killers that legally bought them They weren't done by ones that was criminals before ththe killing !! Assault rifles has no business on the market for they were maked for a human killing machine This shooter was probably another kid and had a gun that was legally owned by his parents. Most illegal guns have been stolen from legal gun owners."

"OldDog47 You are lacking in the upper story. I am probably as much if not more educated than you and half the southern uneducated teabaggers. You call yourself old I assure you that I am much older than you I was borned when Coolidge was president I remember the Hoover Days"

Hate ta tell ya bud, just because they bought the guns legally doesn't make them legal. Most slipped through the system, which is controlled by the government. See where I am pointing? You say most illegal guns are stolen from gun owners? So the actions of criminals should curtail our rights? If you are as truly educated as you say and have been here as long as you say, you wouldn't say what you say. I think you are a foreign shill being paid to "represent" popular opinion. Chuck you, Farley. I am a southerner, I am a tea partier, and I F-ing guarantee you that I am better educated than you are. At 83, even if you only had a high school education, you would write more coherently than you do. I'm calling "shenanigans" on you!

P.S. KNOCK IT OFF WITH THE "TEABAGGER" B.S.! That is a derogatory sexual reference; for people who are so "educated", y'all like to call names alot when you are presented with the truth.

unlawful bullets they had that was marked for law enforcement only.

Unless you're subject to some state or local laws where you live, there really are no 'unlawful' bullets out there, and trust me when I recommend for folks to not get too excited about ones that are labeled For Law Enforcement Only.

1) Bans on certain types of bullets have been out there, but the banned bullets were generally useless enough or too impractical to ever be mainstream. Most just weren't very effective. I won't elaborate on the finer points, but let's just say that the projectiles in top of the line ammunition for hunting or personal protection are just about one step away from being a death ray. The tissue destruction they cause is unbelievable. In the case of hunting, that tissue damage is what makes a very fast, humane dispatch of the game animal. Most often, game laws prohibit solid, non-expanding bullets such as one would use for target practice as their use results in too much wounded game that is never recovered after it is shot and ultimately dies in the wild. For personal protection use, the object of the bullet is to take an assailant out of action as quickly as possible to stop the threat they're being by assaulting or attempting to murder other people. This is done either by destroying critical parts of the central nervous system or else causing their blood pressure to drop to nil. The only thing that does that is something that makes a very large, messy hole. No alternatives have been found to date that reliably do that job.

2) For Law Enforcement Only isn't a law, it is a manufacturer's restriction, placed there for one or more of several reasons.

The most important reason is usually that 'LE' ammunition (generally, we're talking pistol cartridges here) is extremely powerful and the high pressures it works at is very stressful on a handgun. Police departments usually have armorers or designated firearms experts who run firearms training who can be counted on to NOT use this hot stuff for regular target practice, but reserve it only for final qualification tests and actual duty carry. Very few of these rounds are fired through a police gun in a years' time, while hundreds of standard rounds may be expended at the training range. If the public could readily buy ammunition like this, some clowns would shoot it exclusively and then be mad as hell when their $600 pistol they bought last year 'suddenly' wore out and/or broke after only 2000 rounds had been fired through it.

Sometimes, the bullets used in 'LE' ammunition are of the absolute highest quality and perhaps the most advanced design available at the time. They may be extra difficult to manufacture (and the cost reflects that, too!). If they sell it in limited quantities to some law enforcement agencies throughout the nation via contracts (i.e.: the Anytown PD orders 20 boxes, or 1000 rounds, which is expected to keep their handful of officers in duty ammo for the next five years or longer), they can actually produce enough to satisfy everyone. If sold to the public, they'd never be able to make enough of them to go around and the professional users, such as police officers, would go without. That usually ensures that next year they'll buy something else they CAN get, probably from the competing ammunition company.

And, do not forget the box it comes in. Notice that the For Law Enforcement Only boxes are usually WHITE. With a black label. Very generic looking. The plain Jane box of 50 is what the individual officer receives when issued ammunition, and the department bought it in a case. There's no marketing involved whatsoever, as the officer isn't choosing his ammunition, the department is. And they're buying a bunch of it based on their own testing results, or those of another department. Advertising does nothing for this sale! So it's not there. The ammunition is the best, the box it comes in is the cheapest one they could come up with. The EXACT SAME ammunition may very well be available for sale to the general public at the nearest gun dealer. However, it will be in a very colorful box that has pictures and diagrams pointing out what makes this ammunition better than the other options out there. The box may also contain 20 cartridges, instead of 50. Same ammunition as LE issue, but in a fancy box that cost a lot more to print. No worry, though. The same ammunition as LE gets in the plain box of 50 probably costs Joe Average twice as much or more to get only half as much in that colorful box...

"Assault rifles has no business on the market for they were maked for a human killing machine This shooter was probably another kid....."

The story was really lacking...but, one thing it did mention is that the shooter was indeed another kid. There was no probably about it! Also, banning assault rifles will not MAKED the violence go away. Those assault rifles may be the only thing standing between you and a government soldier when the country finally becomes tyrannical....only a matter of time. Or, we are invaded by a foreign nation like Mexico or maybe Panama. They have their place. Aren't you glad the vast majority of those that own assault rifles are responsible with them? The ones that have them to commit crimes probably got them from Eric Holder through the Fast and Furious gun giveaway.

They must think the best way to stop drunk drivers and DUI deaths is to ban all cars.

So when guns are banned and people start getting stabbed are you going to call for a ban knives too??

Only switchblades. Here's the criteria. If an object's sole intended purpose is to kill people, we as a society are better off without it. If it has a legitimate peaceful purpose, it's OK. Why is that so hard to understand?

The sole intended purpose of my shotgun is to kill deer and doves. Why is that so hard to understand?

The sole intended purpose of my shotgun is to kill deer and doves. Why is that so hard to understand?

Deer and doves aren't people. Shotguns are OK. Get it?

someotherguy-1373018, the Second Amendment isn't about hunting. It's to protect us from statist idiots like you who want to control everybody else's lives!

Someotherguy, my saiga-12 is semi-auto, capable of holding up to 20 rounds in a drum magazine, but it's a shotgun. So that's OK right?

Your simplistic view merely highlights your ignorance, a responsible gun owner is defined by their actions, not what type of weapon they own.

"Only switchblades. Here's the criteria. If an object's sole intended purpose is to kill people, we as a society are better off without it. If it has a legitimate peaceful purpose, it's OK. Why is that so hard to understand?"

Who decides the criteria? You? Are you kidding me? The second amendment doesn't list exceptions. Before you start that whole "so we should be allowed to own nukes..." b.s. argument, let me ask you: can you or anyone else in this country afford one? moot point.......

navyvet98, Cars have a purpose, hand guns and assault rifles have no purpose other then to shoot people.

A young Oklahoma mother shot and killed an intruder to protect her 3-month-old baby on New Year's Eve, less than a week after the baby's father died of cancer.

On New Year's Eve Martin returned with another man, Dustin Stewart, and this time was armed with a 12-inch hunting knife. The two soon began trying to break into McKinley's home.

As one of the men was going from door to door outside her home trying to gain entry, McKinley called 911 and grabbed her 12-gauge shotgun.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/okla-woman-shoots-kills-intruder911-operators-shoot/story?id=15285605

You think this 18 yr old widower have a chance with these 2 scums with a knife? Even after being on the phone with 911, there was not enough time for the police to arrive before they broke in to the home.

hand guns and assault rifles have no purpose other then to shoot people

So shooting paper targets is using these guns for other than their intended purpose. How inappropriate.

and In Israel, Egypt, the UK, Russia, Myanmar, Australia,Africa, etc. If you weep for the children, weep for all of the Children not just your PC few.

In the US, I don't think the crime rate is up when it comes to shootings, beatings, etc - due to the Information Age; we're hearing about it more and faster. For the innocents in Gaza -as all around the world- it's heartbreaking.

Try looking at America's joy of propagating violence! All these TV shows and movies with violence and explicit showing of viciousness.

America is grooming our kids to be violent. Wake up and smell what we are cooking!

That's right. I watch all those show and movies too! My grand total for murders is zero. Maybe I should watch more of them.

Watch them at AllPeopleRights house

Joey and MrBurns - I suppose you think all the violence in our society is GOOD for the kids, right?

AllPeople-look at how many people watch violent shows/movies and DON'T commit murder. Do you believe no one was murdered with a gun before TV was invented or before the first movies aired?

Sure dude, i love kids getting killed. You really got me man.

"Joey and MrBurns - I suppose you think all the violence in our society is GOOD for the kids, right?"

Hate ta say it, but it's a fact of life all over the world. Yet we are in one of the safest countries in the world. Top third at least. Movies are fiction; kids generally aren't stupid. They need to grow up knowing how to protect themselves, not relying on someone else to do it for them.

I hope you all don't have kids! The fact that the majority of us do not kill is not the point. You are not a kid, are you? We are inundating our kids, in this day and age, with violence. Watch for the results!

I've got 4. The oldest is 8. How about you Burns and Mike?

10 grandkids. oh, btw, APR, I was a kid once, we all were. Violence in the media was a controversy when I was a kid. I think good parenting nullifies bad media. It certainly did in my kids.

Well it is a liberal strong hold. We cannot upset the sensitivities of gangsters an criminals. That woudl not be PC

South Florida.... UGH!

What, and West Paducah, Virginia Tech, and Helldorado are better?

Don't be afraid of the immigrants or their descendants. It's the white people you need to worry about.

Florida is fine.

Goldfish

When was the last time you were here? It's gutter. That's all Im saying

GoldfishTheDestroyer

Don't be afraid of the immigrants or their descendants. It's the white people you need to worry about.

Excellent observation. Miami is full of white people...that's why there is so much crime down there LOL

...it's so much safer in the ghetto

Try liberty city some night. There use to be a sign warning vacationers of all the violent crime in the area. I use to get double time for pick ups near liberty city. You'll realize you're not welcome when you see the fences around buildings,on balconies and stairways.

Sorry but they see too many video games and movies glorifying violence for one movie to have an impact.

Let me guess, your kids do not play video games. Right!

Try looking at America's joy of propagating violence! All these TV shows and movies with violence and explicit showing of viciousness.

America is grooming our kids to be violent. Wake up and smell what we are cooking!

You mean like those films of drug users and the disgusting consequences like "Scared Strait" they showed us in the 70s?

That worked! Illegal drug use instantly stopped!

Reefer madness is the reason that no one smokes weed in the US too

Right - 9,000,000 violent shows versus 1 on "Scared Straight". LOL, LOL, LOL!

APR,

the only people that get messed up my violence in the media are people, usually kids, who either have mental health issues or a crappy family life. Viewing violent media does not make one violent and in fact it is the opposite. Playing violent games is an outlet for humanities naturally violence prone instincts and such media can also be used to relieve stress.

It is the mentally compromised like Jared Loughner and Holmes that are tens of times more likely to go out and kill someone after being exposed to violent media or rhetoric. Kids that are raised correctly have much lower chances of becoming violent from viewing violent media.

If you are talking desensitization then there is merit to your arguments as i may cause than in the general population but they are not going to go out and pop someone just because the watched Law and Order or played Manhunt.

Some schools show victims of drunk driving and it can be pretty graphic, I think it is a good idea to talk about guns and violence in school, especially in the sociology classes.

Maybe because everytime something like this happens, the NRA immediately runs to the defense of the shooter and tries to blame the victim.

Maybe because everytime something like this happens, the MSM immediately makes the victim out to be a saint and the shooter out to be a demon. Mind you, not in this case. You also aren't likely to hear the NRA say anything at all about this unless it is to offer condolences to the family

Really? I haven't read anywhere in the news where the NRA was advocating the actions of the shooter involved.

FLORIDA again!

Cameron, I'm not sure you are correct. I'm a life long member of the NRA and I can't ever remember any rushes to blame the vic. must be something else you're thinkiing about.

GoldfishTheDestroyer

Let me guess. White on white.

Let me guess... You assume to much and/or are a racist troll.

Assumption is the motherphuker of all evils...get it?... got it?... GOOD.

You know why you assumed that or made a sarcastic remark about it??...BECAUSE THE AUTHOR IS A VERY VERY POOR INFOTAINMENT TABLOID WRITER.

Tune in for more tabloid news and get ENGAGED IN THE WORLD HURRY HURRY HURRY!!!!!!!! /not

. You assume to much and/or are a racist troll.

Strangely enough I was making fun of racist trolls who every time an incident happens involving gunfire in poor neighborhoods automatically attribute the incident to minorities by making a comment like "Brown on brown".

It's kind of absurd when you consider incidents like Paducah and Helldorado. How many times do you see that kind of behavior from minorities? Never really.

If someone is gunning down an entire school or molesting children, chances they are not minorities.

GoldfishTheDestroyer

Don't be afraid of the immigrants or their descendants. It's the white people you need to worry about.

Florida is fine.

Racist again...please stop before you are so behind you can never recover. Once again you are trolling and article with very little to NO information and saying racist comments.

That is very bad my friend...unless of course you wish to continue your hatred and venom campaign.

Just a small word of advice... The second amendment is there to stop the first amendment from being bastardized by people and government. Make sure you do not get in the way of the second amendment while you use the first amendment. /wink

Shosyn -

That comment will get you killed in Miami - guess what color those folks are? (I'll bet you couldn't tell me.)

Racist again...please stop before you are so behind you can never recover. Once again you are trolling and article with very little to NO information and saying racist comments.

That is very bad my friend...unless of course you wish to continue your hatred and venom campaign.

Just a small word of advice... The second amendment is there to stop the first amendment from being bastardized by people and government. Make sure you do not get in the way of the second amendment while you use the first amendment. /wink

.....I think your confusing me.

I don't understand anything you just said.

Agree! We all need to try looking at America's joy of propagating violence! All these TV shows and movies with violence and explicit showing of viciousness.

America is grooming our kids to be violent. Wake up and smell what we are cooking!

Quit posting the same crap over and over!

America's joy of propagating violence? All I see in TV or movies is America's joy of propagating mediocrity. God forbid we should enjoy a good western.....

Yep down here in Florida thats all he/she has to do is say it was self defense with the "Stand Your GROUND" law we have. Most likely it was another young child that did it, may have been an accident . I remember one time in school a student had a gun just to show his friends nothing happened and it wasn't loaded.

Clayton, you know it's a very short boat ride from Florida to Cuba. I think you'd be much happier there, and I doubt Florida would miss you much.

Well you are one that should go to Iran you right wingers would like to over throw the free election here and turn it over to the churches to run

We have had a couple of decent governors in Florida and am hoping the voters will select one again in 2014. Scott and cronies even tried to pass a law here in Florida in this election that would give tax money to the already tax exempt churches and it didn't pass_— they even gave it a false name "Religious Rights Admendment ". I am a patriotic American but I dislike the teabaggers trying to change our form of government where the churches rules the country.