You don't understand? Have you ever watched people drive? Read kornfreak's comments and you'll understand how stupid people are.

kornfreak, you're an idiot. It's people like you who are too stupid and arrogant to slow down to a realistic speed who cause the wrecks. Moron.

What do u think is going to happen 1 or 2 miles behind u when ppl who are traveling at speed have to slam on their brakes because some jackass ahead slowed to a crawl or pulled over...

kornfreak - people like you are exactly the ones who cause these type accidents. The key words in your post are "traveling at speed". One can not "travel at speed" on interstate highways where the speed limit is anywhere from 65 to 70 mph in dense fog. Drivers should never travel at speeds that exceed their ability to see ahead with enough room to top safely, yet I have had people, usually in SUVs, go racing past me at top speed during thunderstorms with almost zero visibility. There is no way that they can see well enough to travel that fast under those conditions, but they think they are invincible in their SUVs and have no regard for the people they might kill when they rear-end them at 80 mph. When J. Hicks states that he slows to a crawl, he is probably referring to the fact that a driver does indeed need to crawl along in conditions of dense fog. Your statement "never pull over" is absolutely wrong. There are conditions so bad that a driver can't see well enough to proceed to the next exit. How old are you, anyway? Seventeen? Probably, since you can't take the time to spell "you" or "people".

Didnt I say that you had to slow down? The problem occurs when people pull over and or slow to a crawl. Because that/they causes a delayed chain reaction. people who arent paying attention or whom are not in the "fog" yet will drive into it and will come up to these people and that is when problems start. if the posted speed limit is 70 then slow down to 45-50mph NOT to a crawl or stop. What do you think is going to happend 1 or 2 miles behind these ppl who are being "extra safe", they get rear ended or caue major accidents at some level. These accidents are always based on some level or misfortunate events/delayed reactions. think of the domino effect or the green light effect.

what does arrogance have to do anything? I'm an diot why? because you thought i meant that you should maintain a 70-75 mph speed? or do you simplly not understand the series of events? you will remember me when you rear end somebody in heavy fog or rain one day. I'll pray hard for you and your family, happy thanksgiving.

I some what agree Pray Hard. I lived in Mississippi for a while, and the worse the weather became, the faster and more aggressive the locals drove. One day, I asked a co-worker, who was born and bred in Mississippi, why is it that people around here speed up the worse the weather, and she responded with a matter of fact that they were less likely to get pulled over in inclement weather, therefore, it only made since to go ahead and speed up. Incredible!!! Of all of the places I have driven, from Miami, to Dallas, to Los Angeles, the worst has had to have been in Arizona. When the weather gets bad people, SLOW DOWN, DON'T BE AFRAID TO USE YOUR FLASHERS, AND, SLOW DOWN!!!!! If you can't see more than 50 to 100 yards in front of you, use your freakin' noodle, and SLOW THE F*** DOWN!!!!

I do have to say though, those of us who drive the bigger trucks (I personally drive a Dodge Ram) and SUVs, have fog lights number one, and since we're sitting up higher than those in the little cars, we can actually see better and further. Just from looking at the pictures you can see the smaller cars have more damage from running into the bigger ones.

scales i was posting from phone and the 17 yr old is the one calling people names. anyways i agree with what you said, Drivers should never travel at speeds that exceed their ability to see ahead with enough room to top safely. totally agree.

my issue is the flow (at whatever speed) and the need not to pull over. i understand that people will slow down even at points to a crawl but when people cant see that's when it becomes an issue. think of your SUV example, say 'ol boy hicks pulled over of to the shoulder for safety issues. now think of this suv coming down the road/hwy at a crawling speed (say 15-30 mph) and unfortunately the SUV driver has a diffrent level of safety in mind and accidentaly strikes hicks even at a crwaling speed. that's when pile ups occur especially in thick or heavy rain.

ones natural reaction is to pull over for safety reasons but in actually you put more and other people at risk by doing so. chain reaction event.

kornfreak - your problem is in your interpretation of "crawl". A speed of 45-50 mph on a highway on which it is safe to travel 70 mph in perfect weather conditions seems like a crawl. What makes you so certain that is not what J. Hicks meant by "crawl". I know it's Thanksgiving and you are probably with your extended family, which can make anyone testy. However, you had no reason to respond to J. Hicks as though he/she is stupid.

people (sic) who arent (sic) paying attention or whom (sic) are not in the "fog" yet will drive into it and will come up to these people and that is when problems start.

It's not always possible to determine that there is fog ahead in the distance. Fog banks can deceive drivers into thinking that the road disappears ahead of them because it is dropping over the crest of a hill. It isn't the people who have slowed down after they enter the fog that are the problem. It's the people who are traveling at 70+ mph when they unexpectedly encounter the fog that cause the problem. They are distracted because they are surprised and disoriented when they suddenly can't see in front of them, and they don't have time to slow down before they plow into someone.

Spell-check...priceless.

hey kornfreak--have you ever been in a fog that was so thick that you couldn't exit because you see exits? Or so thick that you didn't know where you were in relationship to the road edges so that you could safely pull over? Until you have, shut up.

Only in Texas do you see folks grilling on the side of I-10 in Beaumont while waitin for traffic to clear, plus there's a football game going on...we got us some bud light, BBQ, Texans, Cowboys playin...what more could you ask folks?

As a profession driver I have seen it all. People will continue to drive 70 even if they cannot see 10 feet in front of them. Forget fog constantly other drivers tailgate me so I cannot see them. If I can't see them in my mirrors, they can't see nothing but my DOT bumper. If I have the cruise on and someone cuts me off at that time the trucks anti-collision devices/program kicks in and activates the jake brake and airbrakes, faster than I can react.

Fog, rain, smoke, etc. obsuring ones vision means this on the freeway. Maintain lane control, stay in your lane, reduce speed safely, cover the brake and above all else don't panic...

Never pull onto the shoulder if you cannot see or if others cannot see you...This also applies to changing lanes..

If you must get off the freeway, do so at a marked exit when safe...

Thanks for all of the excellent driving advise. This must be were alll of the expert drivers are.

I will try to follow most of this cause, I am the bad driver out there. I follow too close, do not use my blinker, speed, cut everyone off, own all of the road around me and don't know what to do with all of my arrogance.

Please drive like I am right beside you always, because I am.

Thanks professionals

i live in this state.there idiots.

Always slow down when driving in heavy weather conditions, you can only drive as fast as your ability to see the road.

So many idiots these days keep driving at normal speed despite rain, snow and such and then complain about traffic accident, you have a choice and you chose to be reckless. Noone to blame but yourself.

One person has died due to this accident and 4 others are in critical condition and everyone out here is arguing over what the right thing to do in a situation like this.

Maybe if people just tried to use some common sense and remember what they were taught in drivers education accidents like these wouldn't be so severe, at the bare minimum turn your headlights on if there not automatic like the newer cars as this helps big time.

Slow down and drive safely, the life you save may be your own!

I'll see yeah out there after the accident if your lucky enough to survive as I own a towing company and get to clean up the wrecked autos.

Happy Turkey day!

For more info go here, also there's pictures to check out of the carnage.

http://www.12newsnow.com/story/20165231/interstate-10-closed-for-50-car-pileup

justavet2....If you are an example, they can't write or spell either. Basic English 101 class for you.

Thanks to all who defended my position. Kornfreak wonders why someone would call him/her a name, yet had no problem using a less than flattering term referring to people such as myself - hmmm, makes you wonder.

Whenever I find myself in dangerous road conditions such as dense fog or extremely heavy rain, I adjust my speed appropriately and turn on my hazard lights. A "crawl" could be, as someone else pointed out, 40 mph or 25 mph, or whatever slower speed is appropriate for the road conditions. I have been known to pull over as well, always keeping my hazard lights blinking. Why would anyone maintain the posted speed limit if you can't see at least a quarter of a mile or more up ahead? And if you lose sight of a vehicle that is within 20 feet of your car, you need to S L O W down. I am very much aware of the fact that driving too slow is just as dangerous as driving too fast.

I'm not judging those who were involved in this horrendous pile up. I only know that I've found myself in extremely dangerous driving conditions and over a 32 year period of driving experience I've not yet been involved in a collision. I just have a hard time wrapping my brain around an 80 car pile up - I would hope that I would be able to adjust my driving so as to prevent being part of the 80 car pile up.

I am saddened to learn, via these posts, that someone has died as a result of this terrible accident. What a terrible misfortune and horrible way to start the holiday season for that person's family.

muddiemike, good advice and what a mess... thanks for the pics which demonstrate it to be a miracle only 1 fatality (so far anyhow). If folks would just learn to slow down during bad weather, and keep a safe distance between one another, they would get where they're going safely and really... much quicker.

1SGFitzsWife4ID

I do have to say though, those of us who drive the bigger trucks (I personally drive a Dodge Ram) and SUVs, have fog lights number one, and since we're sitting up higher than those in the little cars, we can actually see better and further. Just from looking at the pictures you can see the smaller cars have more damage from running into the bigger ones.

Umm, fog lights are mounted down low because fog tends to be up higher. In other words, the higher up you are (unless you're in an aircraft flying above the fog) the worse your visibility.

I'm not sure what picture you're looking at but in the one I see a crashed semi and Suburban. The fact that the smaller cars appear more smashed has more to do with physics (bigger, heavier vehicles win against smaller, lighter vehicles).

From the above posts, it's almost like a bunch of non-drivers are telling us drivers how to do it. Hate to break it to you but when the fog is so thick you only have 50 feet of visibility, you are NOT going to be doing 45-55 mph. If you do, you're an idiot. You are not going to suddenly be surprised by fog, you'll see it coming and slow down before you get there, if you don't slow down, again, you're an idiot. If you feel you must stop, pull well off the road and then GET OUT OF YOUR CAR and move even farther from the road. I've driven the Tule fog many times and that's considered some of the worst fog out there. Visibility can get down to less than a foot. When it's that bad, you turn off the radio, roll down the windows, and stop yapping, and listen. Sound carries extremely well in fog and I've avoided fender benders by hearing horns and such ahead of me.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tule_fog

Thanks to muddiemike for the link to the pictures; they're stomach churning to look at, but one thing that jumped out at me were the 18 wheelers involved in this accident. There are a whole lotta tractor trailers piled up out there, and there isn't a car on the road that stands a chance up against a tractor trailer. You would think that of all the drivers on the road, tractor trailer drivers would be the safest drivers - but then again, who am I kidding. They've got places to go, places to be, many are sleep deprived, and they are the bullies of the road. It looks like tractor trailers played a very large part in this pile up.

@Chris from Yucaipa regarding the wikipedia link - interesting reading. I've never heard of "Tule" fog before; just goes to show you learn something new everyday! Happy Thanksgiving!!

"You know what they say... Whether the stone hits the pitcher, or the pitcher hits the stone, it's going to be ba-a-ad for the pitcher..." - Sancho Panza, Man of La Mancha

those of us who drive the bigger trucks (I personally drive a Dodge Ram) and SUVs, have fog lights number one, and since we're sitting up higher than those in the little cars, we can actually see better and further

Unless you have military fog lights they things that come on cars aren't going to cut it. "better and further" since you are higher up... in the fog. I see so many people with SUVs wiped out in the snow cause they think they are in a tank.

Skeptical- I drive these same roads a lot, both in my Ram and in a rental (toyota something or other) I have yet to ever hit anyone (even without my fog lights) but yet I've had to have my truck fixed plenty of times because of some honda or toyota running into me.

J. Hicks, my daddy died in a big rig because some little 4-wheeler decided to cut him off and stop, big trucks cant's stop on a dime (especially if fully loaded) they are not the bullies of the road it's the little vehicles who think that. that cause accidents.

Nick- snow and fog two different entities.

It is common knowledge that ''things are bigger in the'Lone Star State' inc. Texans' collective love for their gargantuan trucks and SUVs (no matter the cost of gas). In fact, the gluttonous Chevy Surburban was once deemed the unofficial ''state vehicle.'' In addition, the sole remaining GM plant producing these ''mobile living rooms'' is located in Arlington.

Sounds as if the definition of so-called ''small cars'' would include Corvettes, Camaros, Mustangs,et.al; cars that would make short work of these revered SUVs and trucks,even equiped with the Mexican-made ''Hemi'' on dry pavement and road courses. Most drivers of these vehicles do not need to prove their ''dominance'' on the highway unlike numerous ''bigger is better'' SUV drivers who often drive quite aggressively esp. against ''smaller'' vehicles.

I know how you feel kornfreak. Your thoughts don`t quite come out right (left out "safe") and everyone slams you instead of realizing what your really trying to say. I knew what you meant. I agree slowing to a crawl is not the way to go. Then you get people pull off leave lights on and or foot on brake making them a magnet for traffic!

SGFitzswife,

I am sorry for your great loss. I have to say, here in snow country, many have died because of the big rigs passing in near zero visibility creating total blinding snow conditions in storms where we do drive our cars with our flashers on and all in a crawl caravan. There is no excuse whatsoever,for this kind of disregard for human life on the highways. One blew my son and I offthe interstate eastbound almost tipping us over into the ditch almost into the westbound lane. I am certainly not saying all drive like they are crazy making their time to their destination, but here, it seems like more the rule than not. It is absolutely terrifying to experience that. I am sorry,but to those that live in this snow state, those kinds of truckers are described in one word-Idiot. And it certainly doesn't have to be bad weather for them to drive ignoring the rules of the road whether it's clear, fog or snow.

First thing, slow down, not drastically by slamming on the brakes, but gradually back it down. At the same time, TURN ON YOUR LIGHTS! Do not rely on the automatic feature, turn them on manually. Most automatic feature use a light sensor but sometimes in fog it is not dark enough to trigger the sensor. The fog often reflects light so it may still be bright enough to keep the lights off. Also some systems don't go to full brightness. Turn them on manually to be sure. Use your low beams and if you have fog lights, use them. Using your high beams may make things appear brighter, but them may actually reduce your visibility. Also, don't hesitate to turn on your emergency flashers. Sometimes in fog the changing light of the flashers is much more noticeable and detectable as a vehicle. On a high speed highway it is actually a good idea to turn them on early as you realize you are hitting fog. That gives people hundreds of feet behind you that can still see, some warning of what is ahead.

If it is really bad, pulling off the road isn't all that bad an idea, but if you do, pull way off the road, not just on the shoulder. Get as far off as possible. It may or may not always be possible in some areas, but often getting your right side off the paved or gravelled shoulder isn't a bad idea. Remember, getting stuck is far better than getting rear ended.

One thing you need to understand is just how limited your visibility is. Usually, right at the ground, the fog is a bit less dense so you can make some degree of judgement by looking at how far ahead you can see the road lines in your headlights. It is all about using your best judgement and the better it is the safer you will be, however, anticipate some idoit in front of you won't have their lights on or some idiot behind you will be going far too fast for conditions.

Fog is a difficult thing to deal with. It may sound strange, but country fog is far worse than city fog. In the city, the density doesn't vary as much and also you often have additional light sources from street lights, buildings, etc. In country fog out on the open road, fog can instantly go from a hundred feet visibility to zero visibility in a split second. It can become completely disorienting. Don't panic slow down but not too quickly, give the person behind you a chance to adjust.

If you hit fog in heavy traffic, it's a crap shoot. It may seem counter intuitive, but mirro driving helps. If you can see the person's lights behind you, they can most likely see you. Ideally you want to spread out the distance between vehicles. We don't realize it in normal driving conditions but we are always seeing in front of the vehicle that is just in front of us. That gives us better reaction time. In fog, we can't see beyond the leading person's bumper. The best scenario is to just barely have the vehicle in front of you visible and likewise the vehicle behind you. You can control the distance in front of you, but you're limited on what you can do regarding the person behind you. But there are a few things that can help. If you see the brightenss of headlights coming up from behind, tap your brakes a couple times just enough to light your brake lights. It will help you become visible and alert the driver behind you. If there's no one immediately behind you, your flashers will help you be seen as someone closes on you.

All in all, don't overdrive your abilities and don't panic. Don't get angry at people with less ability than you, they are probably either terrfied or totally clueless. Work at making yourself visible to others.

Have a safe holiday!

Bad weather or fog? SLOW DOWN.

It's the law in many states, and it can save lives.

Don't even talk to me about the idiots that drive way to fast for the prevalent conditions! Two winters ago we received 16 inches of snow in less than 12 hours, which is a whole lot for around here. I was at work and couldn't leave the store until after 4pm. Driving down I-435 at 25-30mph I could barely see where I was going and followed the car in front of me. Time after time we were passed by guys driving pickups doing 50+ with the rear end sliding that had 4X4 on the sides. We must have passed 25 or 30 vehicles that had passed us and slid off to the side or into the median. It took me 90 minutes to make what is normally a 40 minute drive. The techs had called my wife to let her know when I left and wanted her to call them when I got home because I had so far to drive.

Idiots abound and they're NOT the ones driving slowly enough to fit the road conditions. It's the ones driving way to fast. And don't try the "I'm a better driver" thing either. I drove 15 to 50 miles one way to work 5 days a week for over 40 years with NO accidents on the highway.

The life you save may not be your own, but you may save the life of someone else who wants to live by not overdriving your vehicle.

Sounds like the german's autobahn. My cousin told me that once a pile up starts, they do not slow down but continue to pile up until they have a mountain of broken bodies and vehicles.

In Texas the speed limit is determined by driving conditions, these morons were speeding. Ah well, evolution in action.

Drive a forty foot Class A motorhome. Been driving for 50+ years and I've seen just about all the idiots there are on these highways of ours.

Too many "ME FIRSTS" driving out there today that just gotta get there ahead of everyone else. Frequently the only places they get to first are the hospital(if they're lucky)or the morgue. Just ain't worth all that rushing.

Feel really sorry for the folks in that accident that were trying to drive careful.

@1SGFitzsWife4ID - I'm sorry that you lost a loved one because of someone else's wreckless driving, but I have to stand by my original assertion that tractor trailers are the bullies of the road. I once was almost run off the road by a tractor trailer. I guess I wasn't going fast enough to suit the driver, so he pushed me up the road. I wanted to get over to get out of the way, but I had to wait for an opportunity to do so, and once I did, the driver blew past me. Within a matter of seconds I watched as a state trooper blew past me as well, chasing down that tractor trailer, and I passed them further down the road, where the trooper had pulled over the tractor trailer. Karma is great, ain't it?

But not every tractor trailer driver is wreckless; all it takes is a few bad apples to spoil the whole bunch.

To the poster who called J. Hicks a "he" - Hicks is female, and a very pretty female at that...or one hell of a good cross dresser.

Love the poster that claims he can see better in his jacked up truck because he sits higher - sure, we believe you. I had a CDL for many years, and I sat much higher than you can in your truck, don't bull@!$%# an old laborer - we'll call you on it every time.

Someone said Arizona was the worst place they had driven - after living here for 11 years, I would agree. Illinois is right there with us. Best place to drive along side a semi truck is California - they have to drive 55mph regardless of the posted speed limit - and they actually follow the law.

This happened because of idiots that don't drive according to weather conditions, i see this crap all the time, if the visibility is low, you should probably slow down a bit! There's moron drivers all over the world, not just the U.S.!

i have driven across this country many times. i have experienced blizzard white out snowstorms (new york)/ sand storms (arizona/ black ice (wisconsin/ blinding rain storms(arkansas) / rock slides (west virginia). i always engage the flashers, apply the brakes in a slow pumping action, pull over to the shoulder if necessary and exit at the first opportunity. i have never caused an accident in 50 years of driving. i have lived to tell about it because i knew when to get off the road.

Condolences to the families and friends of those lost. Regardless of all our rules, regulations and laws, accidents will happen.

Our thoughts and prayers are with you.

40 mph is the minimum speed you are allowed to travel on most interstates. If you can not maintain that speed for any reason, GET OFF THE ROAD. get in the grass if you need to but get well off the road. You ae a hazard to other drivers. No one expects to come up on a car doing 10 mph on an interstate.

People don't know how to drive, You drive according to the conditions. If you can't see GET OFF THE ROAD. Preferably as far off as you can to avoid the next guy that won't slow down. How far will you drive with a blind fold on?

Apparently, the word of the day is "idiot."

Just to add my two cents worth, I have seen fog so dense near the Gulf coast that I could not become a traffic hazard because I could not find my car in the parking lot. Have a Happy Thanksgiving!

Driving the posted speed limit on any freeway during rain, fog, snow, etc., is the same thing as driving 100 mph on a clear day. It is foolish and dangerous.

What is most upsetting in this is all the accidents that occurred in the west bound lanes because idiots were too busy gawking at the accidents on the east bound side instead of paying attention to where they were driving. @kornfreak is a little over the top but does have some valid points. I have lived on the gulf coast and driven in the dense fog you get down there. You get some idiot drivers who will slow down to 20-30 mph in the left hand lane of the freeway without bothering to put on their lights or hazard flashers. This is particularly dangerous when it is a light colored car. The car can become virtually impossible to see and become a huge hazard, regardless of how fast or slow the other drivers are going. Other drivers may be having no problem seeing other cars that have their lights on and/or are darker in color at a reasonable distance and think that they have the sight distance to travel at the speed they are going. In fog, many people tend to forget that their lights may not turn on automatically and some blindly crawl along the left lane in their silver cars oblivious, and pretty much invisible to other drivers. As far as I am concerned, if you are slowing down that much on a freeway you should move over to the right and should probably have your hazard blinkers on. In fact, in some states if you are going below the minimum speed for reasons other than traffic you are supposed to put your hazard blinkers on by law. The other thing is to remember that the place to be looking is where you are driving, not gawking at an accident on the other side of the road.

Kornfreak has it right. It's people like J. Hicks who cause more accidents because of their stupid driving habits. And as for the moron who thinks that because they drive a Ram pick up they can see better, uh- huh, the fog is much clearer about two feet higher than my car seat. If you morons don't like driving in the fog, rain, snow (have you seen those idiots that put on their flashers and drive at 2MPH when it's raining?)....get the hell off the highway and take the side streets.

The article stated that drivers continued at or near the speed limit (70-75) even tho THEY COULDN'T SEE. Seriously? Are people truly this idiotic?

Yes.

A study was done that showed in a fog, people loose their sense of speed since they can't see their surroundings to judge how fast they are going, to make matters worse the white knuckle stare in the fog prevents many people from looking at their speedometer for fear of an accident.

@ J. Hicks: Truck drivers are not the bullies of the road. My father is a truck driver and is one of the safest drivers you will ever meet. It may seem like truck drivers are trying to run you off of the road, but that is because most motorists drive in their blind spots. A truck driver may change lanes even if you are beside him, but that is because you are in one of their many blind spots and they simply do not know you are there. Truck drivers are "bullied" just as much as regular motorists. Whenever I am talking to my dad on the phone, he always get mad at least once per conversation because somebody cuts him off (and before you go there, he uses a hands free device). Also, trucks cannot stop on a dime, especially tankers, as the liquids they are hauling slosh. If the driver brakes too hard the sloshing can be intense enough to flip the truck or damage the tank. I have ridden with my dad a couple of times and driving a semi is some intense stuff. There are some very bad truck drivers out there, no doubt. But the vast majority of them are safe drivers and very down to earth people, not the bullies that people such as you stereotype them as.

As for how to handle driving in this situation, you SHOULDN'T go the speed limit, but you also SHOULDN"T stop. Stopping is a good way to get rear-ended and cause havoc. What you SHOULD do is slow down to at least half of the posted speed limit, and maybe a little more if the conditions are that bad. Put your blinkers on, especially when in this dense of fog. If you feel you need to stop, find the nearest exit to get off of the highway. NEVER stop on the side of the highway. This pile-up was caused by a mixture of drivers going too fast and too slow, not just one faction.

And that is exactly why there was a pile up hicks. Because ppl like u slow to a crawl or pull over. What do u think is going to happen 1 or 2 miles behind u when ppl who are traveling at speed have to slam on their brakes because some jackass ahead slowed to a crawl or pulled over inches next to the freeway. It's called chain reaction. Slow down, maintain speed, don't slam on brakes and never pull over. Don't get rear ended in the shoulder of the highway. If anything EXIT

Personal theories have nothing to do with safe driving, The law requires you to adjust your speed to meet the dangerous weather conditions.

I live in Las Vegas, and I am so unfamiliar with fog that when I saw some in California, I thought there was a forest fire ahead of us. I was terrified of driving when I couldn't see 5 feet past the headlights. So you know I'm no expert, but it seems to me that if everyone had a set speed to go to when they're in fog it would reduce the damage and fatalities. If you know everyone will be at 30 mph, you might all get through it. You could move here away from the fog, but don't - we're pretty full.

the problem is ppl who drive at all!! when u cannot see your hand in front of your face, the roads should b closed till fog lifts or at very least have a posted speed limit of 10 miles an hour and have it strictly inforced by troopers sittin on side of road every mile.

People can argue opinions till they are blue in the face .. hindsight is always 20/20

I pray for the injured and the families for their loss

Here is the next thing. The reason people slow down other than the law requires them to is APPREHENSION. They are driving in a surprise rain storm. Their feelings determine a safe speed. They slow down until the apprehension disappears. Fog creates a lot of apprehension because from my experience it shortens the distance you can see more than most rainstorms.

If you don't feel that apprehension and disregard the law, you are going to hit your brakes when you run into people who respect road laws, and who have FEELINGS.

People who don't have FEELINGS or RESPECT laws, or are not aware of those laws create accidents like this,

@J_P_PatchesPal_1 - thanks for the compliment. I was also wondering why anyone would refer to me as a male since I use a real picture of myself when I post; whether that's a good idea or not is another story, but I like to see who the person is behind the comments, so I provide a picture of myself so others can see me. It's a driver's license picture, not a glamor shot, so it's the real me. The person who referred to me as a him was actually defending me and I imagine that they didn't pay close attention to the picture, which is understandable when you're trying to skim through comments. I did not take it personally, but again, I do thank you for the compliment! ;-)

@Get Real 2011 - why do people like you insist on calling other people names or referring to them as idiots, like you did with me? If you are familiar with my previous posts on Newsvine over the past four years, you should know that I never engage in name calling or insults. I'm 49 years old, have two children ages 11 and 15, work as a Business Systems Analyst, been married for 17 years and live in the one and only home that I've ever purchased for 17 years. I'm not an idiot, thank you very much!

@cocacola150dr - if you had read all of my previous posts for this story, you would know that I did point out that not all truckdrivers are bullies; it only takes a few bad apples to spoil the bunch. Thank God there are truckdrivers out there like your father, or else we would read about more tractor trailer related accidents resulting in deaths.

To all - I just heard on the news this morning that this accident has been attributed to dense fog and speeding; I rest my case! Have a happy and safe holiday season!! ;-)

My spouse is a truckdriver, and a really good one at that. He drives for a company that has their speed limit "governed." They can never go faster than 65 mph. He hates having to drive in snow, ice, sandstorms, fog, sheeting rain... but he does, and he does so very carefully. His rig, totally loaded, is 80,000 lbs. You can imagine that he cannot stop on a dime, yet some people will pass him and cram on their brakes. That's like driving onto a train track, parking and expecting a locomotive to stop. It isn't going to happen, folks.

Everyone out there needs to be more courteous on the roadways. My spouse can tell about other truckers who are real @#**@s, too. When they start bad-mouthing him on the CB, telling him he needs to kick his rig in the @** and get going, he just turns the CB and the no-brain-idiots off.

There are plenty of good drivers out there, both truckers and 4-wheelers. It's when you get a combination of bad weather, hotheads and carelessness that you get a deadly mix, leading to these deadly chain reaction accidents like the one yesterday in my state. It is for that reason I hate traveling during holiday seasons.

As to blind spots in good weather on trucks and cars:

The biggest blind spot we have is the danger to ourselves in allowing car and truck mirrors to only show a small portion of important road information. While we make car and truck manufacturers go through crash tests, etc., just getting into the driver's seat should tell us something: we can't see what we need to see. Two more smallish mirrors next to the one in the middle, or below the ones on the sides, should show us every possible "blind" spot. It might help too if video cameras (like cheap webcams) were on every dash board; if other drivers know that they are on candid camera when they do stupid things, they might drive better. Cameras could also help see places that mirrors do not go, such as directly behind a truck. Short of some kind of sonar or radar system, similar to "flying by instruments" that planes do in clouds, just being able to see around one's own vehicle would help a lot.

Maybe it's high time that Congress actually did something for Americans, and force cars that drive in the US to have enough mirrors or cameras to be able to see on all U.S. roads. The regulations at least should be put into the states. Anybody agree?

J. Hicks- I watched the report on my local news last night and one of the witnesses said the accident was caused by a big rig jack-knifing across the road and everyone started slamming on their brakes, i wonder why tis isn't being reported on the national level?

I also agree with some of the truck drivers:

The laws that MUST be obeyed are the laws of physics. Any vehicle will flip over, spin out, or fish-tail, no matter if they have 4-wheel drive, a special braking system, etc., if the conditions are just wrong. Some trucks must slow down slowly; they can't slam on their brakes. Trucks can "jack-knife," where the back-end folds against the cab. Any tall vehicle (trucks, vans, SUVs, etc.) is more prone to being moved by wind and by momentum.

Interstate highways are often more elevated and more prone to wind than other roads, but in some parts of the country, only the highways are "graded," so that the country roads climb and twist up and down hills more often. It would help a lot if maps had the old-fashioned altitude circles on them, but maps don't anymore, and many people don't use maps now.

Some people think that only one bad condition isn't too bad; but it is. Fog with no wind is still blinding. I've driven on a highway when it was windy, black ice, blinding snow, and dark; I got off on the next exit.

Long-distance trucks could be more efficient: often those trailers could go on trains, which get 400 miles per gallon per ton.

Auto accidents are my job. I pull the wrecked, mangled vehicles away from eachother, off eachother, or back to the road. I deal with cleaning up the debris, all the glass, broken car parts, peoples personal belongings, and sometimes, pieces of people. After reading through the posts above, I will say this. Almost all of you are right, and almost all of you are wrong. For J. Hicks, and kornfed, you're both right, but you're also both wrong. You're both right in asserting that one needs to exercise extreme caution when faced with extreme driving conditions. J. Hicks, you're right in stating that one should slow down, but kornfed is right in saying that the folks that slow way down contribute to the problem. You're both wrong, because it isn't anyone factor, from side or the other that causes it. It's the fact that if the one slows down, great, only if EVERYONE slows down. It's arrogance that causes most wrecks. I learned this most when digging through the wreckage of my mom, and dads motorhome. The wreck that took my mom from us, because of some one elses arrogance. The middle aged woman THOUGHT she could handle her car, talk with her passenger, and pass a few vehicles safely, all at the same time. That was her last thought as she hit my folks head on, after losing control of her vehicle, killing her, her passenger, and my mom. You're back and forth above, from everyone, that is what causes it. "I'm right, you're wrong" mentality. That is what's wrong, above all else. It's the me, me, me, me, that causes it.

As for blind spots, pointed out by Elizabeth-137299.....Adjust your outside mirrors, so that the side of your car is visible only on the very edge of the mirror glass, this will minimize your blind spots. Depending on your car, the center mirror, your peripheral vision, and the side mirrors being adjusted further out, will all but eliminate blind spots. I've found, that 90% of drivers, adjust their mirrors so that they can see the side of their cars clearly.

martvol

40 mph is the minimum speed you are allowed to travel on most interstates. If you can not maintain that speed for any reason, GET OFF THE ROAD. get in the grass if you need to but get well off the road. You ae a hazard to other drivers. No one expects to come up on a car doing 10 mph on an interstate.

If someone is driving 40 mph with a foot of visibility, they are idiots. There is no debate about that, and thankfully here in California if they catch you doing that, they will pull you over, ticket you, and/or arrest you. The Highway Patrol here in Cali provides escorts through the Tule fog when it's that bad, and yes, they are going about 10 mph as they do it. They also try and have the electronic billboards out with fog notices and warnings to drop speed.

FYI, I'm 39 and been driving for 22 years. Ironically, the only time I've rear-ended someone, I was doing about 10 mph, lol. But that was not fog related, just my own stupidity.

@1SGFitzsWife4ID - that's the first I've heard about a tractor trailer jack-knifing and being the root cause of this accident. Without fog, folks probably would have avoided this pile up because a jack-knifed tractor trailer would be easy to see.

@Joe Johnson-438582 - What happened to your parents is sickening and truly horrible. I'm sorry for your loss. I think arrogance does play a role in car crashes; it can't happen to me, right? All I know for sure is that when I'm driving, I'm diligent - constantly checking rear view mirrors, quickly swinging my head to look back when changing lanes, making sure to keep a good cushion of space between me and the next vehicle ahead of me, and happily changing lanes if the person behind me insists on driving up on me; how stupid can someone be to do such a thing. By the time you get to mid life you've seen enough and heard about enough crashes to make you extremely paranoid about driving. I always drive as if I could be involved in a collision at any moment.

1SGFitzsWife4ID

Nick- snow and fog two different entities.

Not surprisingly you didn't get my point at all. That is- people like you who think they are better in FOG because they are in a BIGGER VEHICLE are a hazard. Snow or fog and even less so in fog.

There were 2 fatalities.

I was driving in an almost "White Out" condition, with the winds blowing well over 45mph, there were at least 20-30 cars on the Highway with me, either ahead or behind. Almost all of us were driving 25 mph in a 70 mph zone. Low and behold, at least 3 different cars "Screamed" past me and my car actually rocked as they went by, even in the heavy winds. I don't know for certain, but I would say at least two of the three drivers were doing close to the 70 mph. I was amazed that there was not any accidents up ahead because of these morons. At least 15 of us had our flashers on, so some one from behind us could see us, the 3 morons did not. I was lucky, they were lucky, and every one involved in that drive was lucky one of these idiots didn't cause a major wreck.

People never learn. There always seems to be an accident like this in Texas twice a year because of the weather (spring and fall).

Back in 1971, I was driving home from school in icy conditions (couldn't stay because the dorms were closed). I was doing 25 - 35 mph in what was, in good conditions, a 55 mph road. Some idiot had to pass at a high rate of speed and then cut in front of me. He then spun 540 degrees (that's a 360 plus another 180 for those a little slow in the math department). Fortunately, I figured that might happen and slowed even more, then passed him and continued, at a very slow speed home. It took about 12 hours to drive what was a 5-1/2 hour drive in good weather.

Mercury, I had a similar situation in 2006. The guy who went flying by me was in a ditch about 2 miles down the road. Because I had EMT training of course I had to stop and help the nitwit. He was ok because as little sense as he had, he was still wearing his seatbelt. Got away with some cuts and bruises.

Some people are a little more capable than others in hazardous conditions. I recommend safe driving, but get in the right hand lane if you are having trouble driving or seeing. Don't block the whole road and be a road commando.

I come from S. FL, so driving in some rain and a little fog are amateur hour to me. Don't hang in the left lane driving 20 MPH just cause you are terrified to drive if it's sprinkling outside.

I live in the Sacramento Valley of California and the winter fog is truly scary. You can be driving through a completely clear area and hit a fog bank so thick you cannot see the front of your car, let alone what is in front of that. Slowing can be deadly because you can be the first of a multiple car pileup and pulling to the side of the road can result in a. other people doing that rear ending you anyway as THEY pull to the side; or, b. going over an invisible embankment. JW, until you have driven in "tule fog" which is MUCH thicker than ocean fog, do not criticize! The best we can do is listen to weather forecasts and try to avoid driving in hazardous conditions; however, some people have to get from point A to point B and take the chance. Tule fog is NOT "amateur hour." I have driven in south Florida and trust me when I say you have NOTHING like it.

If you can't see the hood of your car, you can't keep driving, because you won't be seeing the road. Hazard lights might help until you can get off the road; if possible, far off the road. Best idea: don't drive in the first place.

You people do not get it! This fog comes up out of nowhere; often it is not predicted and the day/night looks perfectly clear at the beginning of the journey. I DO try to avoid driving when these conditions are predicted, but sometimes it just comes up out of nowhere and you find yourself dealing with it. Unless you live/drive where this is common DO NOT CRITICIZE!!

The shoulder is not a safe place to pull off on. We recommend (TexDOT) that if you have to pull off the highway, park or stop in the right of way...completely off the asphalt and in the grass or dirt.

@come We recommend that you learn that it is TxDot not TexDot, perhaps you are not who you say when saying We

Perhaps it is also a good idea to turn off one's lights after pulling well off the highway. When I was driving through an extremely heavy thunderstorm in South Carolina a few weeks ago, some drivers who had pulled off only as far as the shoulder left their lights on. It confuses other drivers when they see the red rear lights burning because it appears that they are still traveling on the roadway. That is why stopped cars are read-ended.

Scales, that is expressly what your flashers are for. You see flashing lights, it tends to make you slow down and be a little more cautious, and at the same time, it makes you even more aware of your surroundings. Flashers are a great innovation on vehicles, don't hesitate to use them.

Bryan - flashers are great when one has to pull over under good visibility. However, some people turn on their flashers when they are driving on the highway under poor visibility. Others pull off the roadway and turn on their flashers. Either way, it is confusing to other drivers. We can't determine whether people are pulled off the road or if they are driving slowly. Flashers are a great innovation only when visibility is good and they can be used to alert others to stopped vehicles or slow moving vehicles. Under poor weather conditions, they can cause as many accidents as they prevent.

Offtheoil,

Uhhh...I work for TEXAS DEPARTMENT of TRANSPORTATION...Odessa District (DE is M. McAnally). And, I'll use whatever spelling I choose (you are correct in that officially it is TxDOT). It has nothing to do with "our" safety recommendations for the travelling public. I hope that clears up any misconceptions you may have entertained. Drive safe and enjoy your holiday(s). By the way, I intentionally up voted your comment.

You missed my point completely scales. When you are driving down the road, in the dark, or other wise low visibility conditions, and you see flashing lights, you tend to slow down, it only makes sense. If you are confused by some lights flashing at you, you seriously should slow down, stay out of the fast lane, and again, slow down, until you can determine what those flashing lights actually mean. Defensive driving really does save lives.

@come... I couldn't resist checking. If you have been around here any time at all you know how many people claim to be the whatever expert or employee or military of the day. Kind of like dating sites, lot's of fakes to be had LOL

You missed my point completely scales.

bryan - scales clearly meant that there is little time to react when road conditions are bad and one suddenly comes upon flashing lights. I don't think he/she missed your point at all. On the contrary, I think you missed the point that scales was trying to make.

This is so sad. To compound it all its a Holiday weedend.. God bless to all those involved and my heart shares all those who lost lives.. May you all heal in time... So so sad...

OtO,

I agree. Maybe more out there should do a "double check." :-)

come and take it....but what if you are on a hilly or mountain road? "Off the road in the dirt" could be several hundred feet down.

There are no hilly or mountain roads in Texas, to speak of. Come was referring to the Texas Department of Transportation recommendation. Not Colorado.

Yes it is sad. Other than the deaths and serious injuries, there are also many totaled vehicles: 140. When there is a natural disaster such as a hurricane, tornado, flood, wildfire, or earthquake, we all want to help, and don't mind sending disaster relief. It is more than annoying however when it is a man-made disaster that might have been avoided in the first place if people had pulled far off the road who couldn't see, and if radio stations (at least) had warned people that there was solid fog on a highway. Airlines cancel flights in bad weather, and people wait at airports for the next flight. Why don't people wait for better weather when they drive?

As for "off the road," in my part of the country there are some flat areas, but lots of places where there is a ditch close to a road, and hills that people could fall off of. Every winter the speeders land in the ditches, you would think they would learn. I have never caused an accident in my 40 years of driving.

Enough- I live in the "hill country" of Texas, we do in fact have them ;)

Cowboys lose to Redskins.

Not going to happen RG III or not (he's from our town, Copperas Cove) Cowboys are 6-0 on Thanksgiving vs the Redskins.

Sorry...the Cowboys is not going to lose to the Redskins. RG III will play like a rookie. Cowboys should triumph, again.

It really doesn't matter 1SGFitz and wolfpack2000, both the Cowgirls and the Redskins SUCK!!! Hahaha....

Its 28 to 3 (Redskins) at the half..don't think your Cowgirls are going to win this one.

Cowpokes lost.

Yeah that game totally sucked lol, the biggest thing against us is playing in our own house, we need to go back to our old stadium. Oh well we'll get them next time.

" Cowboys are 6-0 on Thanksgiving vs the Redskins."

Now 6-1

If they would stop selling bra's and panties at the souvenior shop, they might have won.

It should be that simple Jonathan. But it just isn't with some people.

To all the people out there who insist on driving fast on the highway, going in and out of traffic, in any and all conditions and continue to think they are getting somewhere quicker, let me tell you a story. My husband is one of those kind of drivers. I can't stand riding in the car with him, white knuckle experience. He changes lanes constantly and in rush hour drives on the shoulder to get around people. Well, we worked at the time, at an autobody shop, and one day we had to deliver a car about 15 miles south of us and it was rush hour. So I drove the fixed car and he drove ours. I said to him, let's see who is right, me taking my time, relaxing, and going with the flow of traffic or you driving the way you usually drive. So he said ok. Well, he did beat me there, as a matter of fact, as I was pulling in beside him, he was just putting his car in park. He beat me by 10 seconds. He was so far ahead of me on the highway that I didn't even see his car on the way. But we still arrived at virtually the same time. So go ahead folks, speed up, you'll get there 10 seconds ahead of me. I heard once a long time ago that you have to pass 98 cars on the highway in rush hour to gain 1 minute of time. Not really worth the effort.

I was going to throw in my two cents worth and be in agreement with all of us who think safety is important. However, after reading a great deal of these comments, I think it would be casting pearls before swine.

Perhaps, just a reading from lessons learned might be more appropriate:

I am an "average" driver, I don't go too fast or too slow; I do my best to pay attention to the road; and I think defense is the best offense. Those simple rules have prevented me from becoming a statistic in my 40 some years of driving. Not one real driving accident (not counting the fender bender in a parking lot, and I was the on the receiving end), and no speeding tickets! I've always gotten to where I needed to be in the time I allowed.

On the other hand, I have suffered terrible injuries to my physical self, (not involved in car accidents,) but accidents, just the same. I have one leg screwed back together, a busted hip, etc. I suffer terrible pain everyday from them, but that's just the price one pays for injuries. Auto injuries are just as debilitating, if not more so, and probably far more complex! So, as I cast this pearl, please understand, even minor injuries can hurt you for years, and no one is immune to injuries. It's worth that one moment of thought --"Hey, this could hurt A LOT! (and forever)" that might save you or someone else.

Please be careful out there. We get one life. No push-button resurrections happen in the real world. That fog bank might be just a wisp, or it might be a miles wide wall. The same goes for high water, it might just be a sheet of water over the road, or the road may be completely gone beneath it. You don't know. Pain is a great educator, but sometimes total failure (like DEATH) occurs.

May the injured in this horrible accident heal quickly. Many condolences to the families of those who perished.

@ MRABILITY

It's a wounder why the.....

Before you start making accusations about intelligence perhaps you should learn how to spell. The word is wonder.

That's because MRABILITY is a self wounder.....................

Even if you change the word to wonder the sentence still doesn't make any sense.

Who would have thought that 2016 is already drawing a crowd. Bet its a toss up between getting in line for early voting or black Friday sales.

Hilarious, Klondiko! People dead, dying, gruesome injuries. Let me guess: You're a sensitive liberal, right? I hope if there has to be only one other traffic fatality ever again in the US it is you, not some other innocents, scum.

Ericstrong~ I was right with you until you made this just as political as that fool. What the eff does political affiliation have to do with anything? Far as I am concerned you rank right up there with Klondiko...damn shame. Folks dead and you two have to talk politics. Give it a dang rest will ya?

Are you referring to the Darwinian expressway?

You read my mind Ron46. The comments would have been a couple of thousand deep...

but nobody has learned to slow down and be safe in TX

Has anyone ever taught you that you should NEVER use words as a whole? "nobody"? That is such a bold statement. Watch what you say. Have respect.

Has anyone ever taught you to NEVER use words or phrases like "nobody" or "everyone does this or that"? "nobody"? Really? You have honestly just insulted a whole state where... Have some respect.

mathuin---drove in rush hour traffic in el paso. worst drivers i have ever encountered. they drive as though they want to have an accident. took alternate route home---will never drive thru el paso again.

I agree granny, I live in Texas and will do everything in my power to not have to drive in el paso (or Houston for that matter)

I live in Houston and wish I didn't have to drive there.

Most of these 2 cities roads have concrete barriers on both sides of you with only a couple of feet of space.

offtheoil - The accidents happened along I-10, which runs east to west. Houston and Ft. Worth are apporximately north/south of each other and are not connected by I-10. Besides, there are not very long stretches of any interstate that have concrete barriers on both sides. These usually occur around cities or construction areas.

Scales, do you think I just drive back and forth or do you figure that I drive all over Houston during the week working in the refineries. I guess that you haven't driven on 610, 45 through Conroe, Hardy toll Rd or I-35w, Beltway 8 over the ship channel and a lot of others.Try I-35 through Austin some time if you want to be door handle to door handle with nowhere to go. I have been stuck on I-10 for hours after a small accident because there is no way to get traffic around the wreck. There are long runs on these roads without breakdown lanes and they were like that before any construction started and still are.

offtheoil - scales is right. The pileup didn't happen on the roads that you mention. It happened on I-10. Yours is a moot point. Besides, you can look at the photos of the pileup and see that there are no concrete barriers along the sides of the roadway.

My point was not about this particular stretch of road it was about the fact that if you don't spend the money on full size roads and fix the broken bridges they cost a lot more later on in life. My point was that the cutting of spending on infrastructure is a bad idea. This morning when the story was posted there were no pictures. I drive up and down I-10 all week long and there are a lot of tight spots on it. Unless you drive this road all the time you have only judged it on one picture. My point still stands that spending on infrastructure needs to be increased and I am willing to pay more taxes to get it done.

"WOW the fog is thick on the road"
"LOL"
"OMG"

D.O.A.

Hey driver,

I know where you're coming from. But the really wld motorists can be found on the beltway around Atlanta, Ga. They fly like a Beagle until it rains. Then they speed up. One would think that the beltway is actually the Daytona Motor Speedway and they are all driving in a NASCAR race.

Plenty of drivers out there that forget what they're doing. Operating a ton or more piece of machinery.

Always slow down in fog, dust, rain, snow or any other condition that reduces visibility and turn on your flashers and headlights when doing fifteen MPH under the limit. The headlights are a good idea even in pristine weather as there are drivers out there that don't possess perfect vision and the color of a car can cause it to blend into the background. Making it harder to see.

I have taken to not just slowing down, but getting off the Interstate and drive local roads. The speed limits are slower to begin with -- often nearly empty and you can always find a safe place to pull over. Time is important -- but no where near as important than a life

Herb Sneebler

Oh yeah, Hotlanta can be insane too but for some reason they manage to keep it together pretty good. I have seen one multiple fatality on that beltway and it wasn't pretty. I guess it must have something to do with dancing ability because there are some cities where I am impressed with some drivers in heavy traffic, it's like one big ballet, everyone doing what they are supposed to be doing.

The ones that get into trouble are the ones going nowhere fast, the hot heads and the young bucks.

I am from the North East where you had to learn how to drive just to survive and I was surprised that the locals in Hotlanta refer to the Beltway affectionately as the "Watermelon 500". Being a Yankee, I thought a fight was going to break out but it didn't...

Herb Sneebler

The worst Fatalities I have seen are in Texas. I don't know if it's something in their water or what but a lot of the four wheelers seem to have a death wish. When you get into their side roads, they are pretty good and have a unique way of driving on the shoulder to let you pass but when you get into the cities, a lot of them act like you are about to steal their milk money.

Their traffic patterns, get off and get on ramps are much different then the rest of the country, it takes some getting used to.

Slow down and cause an accident as people plow into you. Its a situation where different drivers with different skills are on the road at the same time.Its the same with driving in the snow.

two pp dead

sad

stupid people not smart enough to slow down yes 70 mph is the posted speed limit. it dont mean you HAVE to it