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Subscribe to RSSWhy do some people reject the existence of PTSD?
The topic is touchy. Even asking the question is slammed as irresponsible.
“Why on Earth would you try to put out something that states combat PTSD isn't a true affliction? Or even try to debunk it? Or to put questions into the minds of society? In the first 155 days of 2012, we lost 154 men,” Amy Cotta, an author and the mother of a Marine wrote in an email to NBC News. Her message arrived minutes after she learned NBC News was seeking to interview a PTSD denier.
Despite exhaustive scientific studies that have explored the symptoms, causes, diagnoses, and prevalence of post-traumatic stress disorder, hardcore skeptics remain.
They exist within the military, where some leaders openly call PTSD a mental weakness, according to mental health advocates. David Weidman, who did two tours in Afghanistan and was diagnosed with PTSD, said all of his senior non-commissioned officers advised him not to seek treatment, instead suggesting he “just put your head down and keep going” in order to maintain any chance at a promotion.
They exist within the veteran community. Kevin R.C. “Hognose” O’Brien, who operates a blog called “WeaponsMan” and identifies himself as “a former Special Forces weapons man,” wrote in July that PTSD was a “quack” diagnosis, “invented” to clump “any odd and many normal behaviors.” He added: “If a vet is wound up tight? PTSD! If he or she is calm? Hypercontrolling due to PTSD! Lose weight, gain weight, maintain weight, those are all PTSD markers. Get in fights? PTSD, natch. And avoid fights? Well, clearly it's .... are you starting to get the idea?” O’Brien declined to be interviewed for this story.
And they exist within medicine. In late September, Washington, D.C. psychiatrist Dr. Joseph Tarantolo authored an op-ed piece titled: “PTSD, The Grand Scapegoat.” In it, Tarantolo described PTSD as a “pseudo-diagnosis” and held that “the PTSDer gets an enormous amount of pseudo-sympathy.” On Friday, Tarantolo’s voicemail message said he was out of the country on vacation.
To Afghanistan veteran Weidman, most people who so stridently dismiss PTSD have simply failed to read the available scientific literature on the subject and are, he said, “uneducated.”
But Weidman acknowledged that different people possess varying degrees of mental “resiliency,” underscoring the slippery nature of diagnosing anxiety disorders. That means, he added, that if an entire platoon collectively endures the same moment of extreme combat violence, not every platoon member will ultimately feel the symptoms of post-traumatic stress. According to the Mayo Clinic, those signs can include “flashbacks, nightmares and severe anxiety, as well as uncontrollable thoughts about the event.”
“There are people who can experience something who have no side effects. It could be that person (who ends up being a denier),” said Weidman, a student at Penn State-Lehigh Valley. “Or it could be the person who is extremely uneducated and chauvinistic, who says a guy who gets diagnosed with PTSD ‘is not being a man.’ You’re going to have a perfect storm within the individual who’s going to be that outlier, who says: ‘It doesn’t exist.’
“Or, it could be the person who actually has post-traumatic stress, who is not seeking help, who is more living up to society’s ideal male image of being strong and being resilient,” he added. “Those people going to make even more noise.”
Mental health experts say the occasional repudiation of PTSD is merely an extension of the larger societal taint associated with anxiety or mood disorders.
Click here for more military-related coverage from NBC News.
“It comes back down to the stigma of mental illness,” said Jean Teichroew, spokeswoman for the Anxiety and Depression Association of America. “Military members also are afraid to speak out because it’s seen as a weakness. The VA has programs to try to combat that, too. But when you have a sergeant who doesn’t think you should be afraid of a bomb going off near you or seeing a dead body, that’s another issue.”
Still, the rate of diagnosed PTSD cases among Iraq and Afghanistan veterans is higher than the rate of cases associated with men and women who served in past conflicts. That abrupt spike has sparked an ongoing debate within American and British academia as to how common PTSD truly is among military personnel and veterans.
“The suffering of people with PTSD is very real whether we label it an ‘anxiety disorder’ or not. As for the skeptics, some of them may believe that a proportion of veterans without the disorder may report symptoms to secure service-connected disability compensation payments for PTSD,” said Harvard University psychology professor Richard J. McNally. He has penned more then 320 publications on anxiety disorders, including PTSD.
“According to (Department of Veterans Affairs) data reported late last spring, 45 percent of all veterans from Iraq and Afghanistan have applied for service-connected disability compensation, and 31 percent have secured it already. This figure includes all forms of medical problems, however, not just PTSD," McNally said. "The percentage of veterans of World War II and Vietnam who obtained disability compensation is 11 percent and 16 percent, respectively.”
In 2011, the VA listed the three most common service-connected disabilities among veterans receiving federal compensation that year: tinnitus (ringing in the ears) at 10.9 percent, hearing loss at 7.5 percent, and PTSD at 5.3 percent.
Is PTSD being over-diagnosed in post-9/11 veterans?
“Yes. I think it is,” said Simon Wessely, vice dean of academic psychiatry at King’s College in London. “I think that despite the formal criteria, there is a confusion sometimes (about) the normal emotional responses to war — my father still has nightmares about his World War II service in Royal Navy and he is 87, but he doesn't have PTSD.
“I also think that, for example, depression often gets under diagnosed, and substance misuse also,” Wessely said. “Our evidence also shows, for example, that quite often the triggers for what becomes labeled as PTSD is not combat exposure but actually a reflection of problems back home. It is important that we remember that not every mental health problem in theater is PTSD."
Despite the loose diagnoses or cases of outright PTSD fraud, to those in medicine and the military (post and present) who deny PTSD altogether, Wessely offers three final words: “They are wrong.”
More content from NBCNews.com:
- Older vets to post-9/11 vets: 'We had it harder'
- Double amputee to potential congressional foes: 'Bring it'
- Vet injured in parade crash: I heard someone yelling 'train!'
- Panetta orders review of ethical standards amid misconduct allegations
- Hearing loss the most prevalent injury among returning veterans
- Your 'thank you' to veterans is welcomed, but not always comfortably received
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It is difficult enough in our very judgmental society dealing with any mental illness. Obviously anything to do with symptoms like PTSD is going to make it harder for individuals to reach out if they think people will accuse them of not being man enough. Especially when there are those who are prejudice against it. Such a mental stigma can haunt ones career for life, so even seeking help can be hazardous. As a society we need to stop looking at mental illness like it is something people are choosing, instead of a chemical problem or like PTSD, something from traumatic events.
War is hell and we are a war-mongering society. It's especially bad with repeated tours of duty.
I'm torn in two directions. We do owe it to our service people to take care of them like they took care of us at home. However, this should not now mean we pay for them the rest of their lives. We owe it to them to help them address the problem but most of them can become functional, contributing members of society again if treated correctly. From what I have seen it seems the VA simply hands out more and more drugs, but never really helps or even forces the patients to move forward. Facing the demons of war is a feat most of us don't want to do, but it has to be done to be able to live a life fully afterwards. These men and women deserve real lives, not the drug-induced state that psychiatry is promoting.
Lenny, Lenny, Lenny. Get over it, or get help.
My guess is that PTSD deniers are exactly like any conspiracy theorists. The striking thing about conspiracy theorists is that they are virtually always advocates for multiple --- often ten or more --- different conspiracy theories. People whop believe that Oswald did not act alone also tend to believe that the Apollo landings were faked and that there us a massive Jewish conspiracy to take over the world money supply using the Fed as a foil. My guess is that most PTSD deniers are also global warming deniers and subscribe to any number of additional conspiracies.
Throughout recorded history it is always the same: When confronted with something that cannot be explained from within your own experience and education, many people will simply either adopt a belief system that explains the anomolies or will reject key elements in order to make the unknown into something "knowable."
The problem is that science has a built-in system of denial that causes scientific findings to be constantly challenged and updated with new data. Far from being a confirmation that the deniers are right, this is exactly why the deniers are always wrong.
Lenny must have PETSD, Post Election Traumatic Stress Disorder.
It is crazy to think that spending years terrified of being killed, seeing your friends blown up and having to kill others would cause any kind of emotional trauma! People should be able to come home and fit right back into their life before like nothing happened! Why let a little think like scientific proof get in the way of logic like that?
It makes perfect sense to me that there are more soldiers claiming benefts. The stigma of having something like PTSD is far less now than it was after WWII or Viet Nam and there are more treatments available. How many men after WWII may have had it but said nothing out of fear of being labled "crazy," especially considering treatments were limited then.
PTSD is definately real. A friend of mine was the victim of a gang rape. The difference between PTSD and other illnesses is that you relive the experience. It is not like thinking back on a memory that was sad or scary, your brain in that moment believes that you are in that scenario again and your body chemically reacts as such. For my friend, she would feel the same fear and adrenaline that she felt during the attack-it was happening to her again. It is very easy to see how someone who was in war could have those same reactions.
Are there perhaps some that are misdiagnosed? Sure! But is the answer to make it more difficult for those who really have it to get help? No!
The answer (other than not go to war) is to further study the effects of war on a person's mental health to be able to better diagnose cases.
I recall going to the clinic for insomnia. 1st doctor gives me 90 days of ambien. Awesome. Non-euphoric. I can drink if I want to get high, so I don't see why anyone would abuse ambien, but that's just me. Anyway, it works great for my insomnia.
About a year passes. More insomnia. Go in for some ambien. 2nd doctor looks at me weird. Lots of questions. She leaves the room and I look at the computer where she was typing notes. The usual blood pressure, height & weight...
"Patient denies suffering from PTSD"
WTF. I knew I wasn't going to get any more ambien. Back to a couple shots of Jack and some melatonin.
So, yeah, PTSD is definitely over-diagnosed. This Doctor just assumed an afghan vet with insomnia must have PTSD.
wan'a see somebody with PTSD hit the floor...yell incoming...has you drop a book flat...
I honor those that have served in the military - always have, always will. But I am tired of articles on MSN that target veterans only when it comes to PTSD. Try being a female who was very badly assaulted, and you'll have the same type of symptoms. Seek treatment and they'll tell you you have PTSD. I suggest perhaps those that are the outlier deniers might have a bit of anti-social personality disorder going. Just saying . . . .
....and that's supposed to be funny, bo(o)b???
Denying the existence of PTSD or calling it a lazy cop-out is as stupid as saying that climate change or global warming do not exist. Seems to me that more research needs to be done in this area. Dealing with brain issues is tricky. Is PTSD trauma, like a concussion or is it stress related/emotional? Unless you are dealing with it or are an MD that studies it, I doubt the average person knows or fully understands what PTSD really is. Accordingly, people who are not knowledgeable on the subject matter should refrain from making negative comments. It's unfair to those that suffer from PTSD and, quite frankly, makes the commentor look like an idiot.
Unfortunately, today's vets go from the front lines to back home in the blink of an eye. I knew a guy that still had someone else's blood on his uniform when he got back from Viet Nam. It was a chopper ride to an air field to LAX and then onto Chicago. Non-stop, so to speak. The guy had to call his folks from O'Hare to come and get him. He never got the chance to do so before he got there. I doubt the transition is much different today, with the exception of cell phones make notifying family easier and faster.
The Republican Flag Waving Patriots who caused all of the PTSD are the whack jobs that don't believe in it.
PTSD has been around since war has been around. The severity depends on the society.
Anyone who is having difficulties adjusting should be able to seek help without flak from anyone.
True. Among the many names it has been called throughout history is "battle fatique".
Battle fatigue, shell shock , cowardice, PTSD. The name changes with the attitudes of the military and society in general. What ever you want to call it, it never really goes away. Now they just medicate you and send you on your way.
Did you know they have a medicine to keep you from having nightmares now? Prazosin it's called. You don't get the nightmares that are so realistic when taking it, but you dream more detached and less intense. All the anti-psychotics, anti-anxiety and anti-depressive drugs are are hit or miss.
Perhaps some people are abusing the diagnosis of PTSD and some doctors may be too quick to assign it, but it is real, very real.
It all only ends when you do.
Hey, I know people who even deny that mental illness exists. As far as they're concerned people behave that way by choice because of a "lack of character."
As a PS to my post saying PTSD was completely misdiagnosed by my conclusion-jumping doctor, I want to temper that by saying that I was just really lucky.
But to those who did experience terrible personal trauma and do suffer, my heart goes out to them.
We are of the animal kingdom, but we are not complete animals. As human beings, we comprehend ourselves; we can forsee and manifest a future for ourselves and our families. We relate to each other with feeling and compassion, with love and lust and hatred and scorn; the eternal part of us that we feel within us, connected to a greater knowing, our own chosen - or even denied - God. Even Atheism, a complete denial of any kind of a God is in and of itself a freedom completely afforded by design, and all chosen futures are possible: even one that remains genetically in place as a "pure" species while allowing an evolving, melding species to grow away from it, the new evolved species one day looking back and seeing their distant white-skin cousins as simply another stagnated species of ape like the chimp, gorilla or orangutan. If we truly manifest a future for ourselves, then denying evolution manifests only one certainty. If you can't figure out what that certainty is, then it's probably already too late for you. Like it or not, nature denies us no other possible future but an evolutionary split, it simply must happen sooner or later. And this planet is not getting any larger, and we are already so interconnected by intercontinental airline flight that we have no empty isolated place left in which to evolve peacefully. As intermingled as we all are, it's going to get ugly and end in two separate, unrecognizable alien foes moving in two different and violently divided directions on this one, tiny planet over the next several hundred years.
Really feel that in your bones for an hour or two and then contemplate your own PTSD if you were to be the unfortunate beings the world is leaving behind, evolving away from, in the tomorrow I describe above.
Cheer up. I'm more than likely all wrong. But hey, just for the record there's my scenario.
Most people don't realize that you've been taught all your life to respect life, while in the military, it's your duty to take life. Might be why you'll always find the best drugs and booze near military installations. Anything to drown the pain away, from the moral conflict of doing what is right, vs. what it takes to get the mission completed.
hey relaxdontdoit, just one quick question. were you suffering from insomnia before serving?
hey Joe, no, I wasn't... but I joined up when I was 18, so it's hard to say what caused it.
hmm. food for thought, i guess...
For many of my brothers, suicide was the only option: my close friend committed suicide,
off the coast off Nam...and I was privy to the deaths of other shipmates, pilots..Unless you've
been in combat, you have nothing to say on PTSD...the Army is reporting a record 200 plus suicides
and here we are....arguing about a condition that is terminal.
While it may be over-diagnosed, it is absolutely real and I saw it in the Navy in the '80's with Vietnam Veterans and I have seen it far more recently in the Army at the beginning of our 14 month Iraq deployment from a C.O. who lost the majority of a squad on a previous deployment. There is no doubt in my mind the issues he had (which started near the end of our field rotation for the deployment) were related to combat stress, and little doubt he ignored the symptoms which contributed (along with also real physical issues) to his being sent back to be "in the rear with the gear". It wouldn't surprise me in the least if he or those 'Nam vets didn't believe in PTSD despite being poster children for it in my experience.
The bottom line is the more that we can get those affected to disclose the issues they have from combat service, the better the chance that they can live a normal life as Service Members and as Civilians after they separate / retire.
2BCT 1AD OIF 08-09
uchusky99,
"The stigma of having something like PTSD is far less now than it was after WWII or Viet Nam and there are more treatments available."
Far less? Don't think so seeing as how this society reacts to mental disorders. When you have the flu you go to the doctor plus you let other people (family, co-workers, etc.) know you're "sick". Try that with a mental disorder such as PTSD and see just how sympathetic or understanding these people are. You're treated as if you have the bubonic plague. Far less - ya right.
I'm still waiting for us Vietnam vets who have PTSD (including myself) to be accepted that we do have an illness. At 67, I'm not going to see that happening in my lifetime.
Oh calm down everybody. It's well known those that sent us to war love and care for us when we return; To commutate my Comrades that didn't return, and those of us that did I made up this cute little ditty:
Its off to war we go. If we returns nobody knows. If you get back don't be a hack. They don't want to hear about it when they pat your back. They say good job, I'll tell you Sonny but don't be bum go earn some money, after all you volunteered to kill and die so get out of here. Go live in a box until the Fall, maybe before the Winter we'll start another war and give you a call.
Thank you so much for giving us the opportunity to go to foreign places, meet exotic people and kill them. Here's my fix, next time there is a war. We will draft only kids that didn't go this time and all the Americans that so warmly welcomed home the troops from Vietnam like the hippies. Boy they'll show us how it's done. Who knows maybe we didn't really even go to a war...we went to an Iraqi Disney Land had a great time and returned to get some money off all you rich folks. Yes Sir....Oh for the record personally I don't want anything from you people, your false gratitude, insincere pats on the back and especially you hard earned money. Many of us just want to be left alone and are tired of hearing about the war. A memory I would rather just forget, just like the public.
For all those deniers, there is Shades Of Grey, a documentary film made just after WWII about why some WWII vets weren't returning home right away. Made at a hospital with real military doctors and military patients who were suffering from some form of combat related PTSD, it is a real eye-opening experience to see the more severe examples of what combat experiences can do. There were numerous examples of all kinds of severe effects on the men being treated. Some were able to be helped quickly, others, it was obvious it was going to take a long time.
People aren't identical and don't have the same developmental experiences before experiencing traumatic events. It's no wonder that they don't all respond the same way. I am a vet and served during the cold war and later for a long time as a civilian in various defense establishments in the US, Europe and Asia. I still have occasional awful dreams about the things I knew about and experienced first hand. I still have sudden emotions from things that trigger them from the past. While what happens to me may not be full-blown PTSD, it certainly is going to be a part of the rest of my life. Understanding it helps a lot, but it will never go away.
For those who suffer more acutely in ways that adversely affect their ability to live a full and productive life, they definitely need help. I can't imagine how hard it would be to live anything resembling normality if what I experience was multiplied by a factor of 10. To all you deniers, get a life. Quite telling the rest of us what is not real when it palpably affects us. Just because you never saw, felt or experienced something doesn't mean it doesn't exist. You ever see nuclear bomb go off in person? No. Well, did that stop you from believing the enormity of their destructive power? Hopefully not.
Chris,
I suppose that you don't know that the Congressional Assassinations Committee itself concluded that John F Kennedy was the victim of at least 2 shooters back in 1963 ? Personally, I think he got whacked by elements of our own government. Why think that? Because even after reaching that conclusion, our government still has to take step #1 in investigating that very real and admitted "conspiracy" that resulted in the murder of our President- the leader of our Nation for pete's sake!
You might also want to keep in mind that the United States of America exists because of a conspiracy formed against King George by the people we regard as "Founding Fathers". Does saying these things make me a Conspiracy Theorist too?
i beleive in PTSD.stress affects everybody sooner or later.its dealing with unbearable circumstances.some are short term situations and some are much longer.dealing with things beyond your control takes its toll mentally, physically, and emotionally.the world is a crazy place run by even crazier people.
it's a good thing we attacked iraq...those WMD's were just seconds away from being launched...and there's no-war criminals in texas...and no body in iraq suffer's from pre-emptive strike dis-order...how do ya' say...incoming... in iraq...
Ya know Bob, those smart ass comments of yours are just plain ignorant. Apparently your mother never taught you the golden rule about "If you don't have anything nice to say, THEN KEEP YOUR MOUTH SHUT!"
A lot of people suffer from PTSD: soldiers and military veterans, first responders, people who have been attacked or violated in any way, horrific auto accident victims, etc. Acting like PTSD is a joke is as ignorant and wrong as yelling "FIRE" in a crowded theater when there is no fire.
did somebody say...they yell...BUSH WACK...that's...just wrong....
damn i cracked my head diving under my desk when i heard "bush"! talk about ptsd...
It's smart-ass comments like bobs' and joe that show you how PTSD is taken by people. Ignorant to anything that takes understanding and compassion. I know those two never put their asses on the firing line. If that were to happen, both would yell "MOMMY!!!".
not at all. i admit, it was a poor attempt at a joke. but i at least acknowledge the existence of ptsd, unlike others...
btw i wanted to join up. fate had other ideas in store for me. i was born deaf. that does not make me any less patriotic than any soldier. in fact i used to wish for an invasion just for the chance to fight for my country. thanks, patrick swayze and red dawn for that one. i can't even be a volunteer fireman...
joe420er,
Consider yourself lucky. My little brother enlisted and made it through basic just fine, completing all tasks and tests, just to be called into his COs office and told he couldn't stay in due to a pre-existing leg problem. He had undergone several surgeries as a baby and toddler to correct an in-turned foot problem that runs in the family and his CO said the Army didn't want to be responsible for making it worse. Doing that to a young man after they successfully complete their training just crushes them. Be glad they didn't do that to you.
Any active service member or veteran that has this or any mental condition should get the treatment or help they deserve. As for Veterans are that suffering from this the same they should get and compensation for there problems if warranted . If this Country can take care or illegal aliens they should at least take care of those that have served and are serving.
Doesn't happen. Most military personnel have a security or medical clearance that is jeopardized by having a mental illness of any kind. If you walk into Mental Health with depression, you're automatically grounded. Trying to get back on flying status is extremely difficult, then you lose your job (which doesn't help your depression much). If you're separated because you weren't old enough to retire, then you lose your medical insurance, too. And that's just depression, something that's often temporary and treatable, never mind PTSD.
So what do we do? Suck it up. If you can get by without having to go to Mental Health, you do. You may not be "all that you can be," and you may get worse, but until you literally can't function anymore, you suck it up. You have to or you lose your career and health care.
Everybody has there limit but the cycle of deployments is out of was. I've seen lots of times where guys were burnt out before deployment had mental issue's and still had to go because the unit was hurting for manpower etc etc. I think a start to remedy this would be go to A Draft System, make a limit for some guys that have been already let them set or ride out on Rear-D get there selves together and take care of there families, change up the ROE in theatre not much but it's a start.
Seems to me that "black-listing" people (so to speak) due to mental issues is something that belongs back in the stone ages. It is time for our (U.S.) military to recognize the damage war inflicts on our military personnel and properly treat them.
This issue (improper treatment of service personnel) is as disgusting to me as a citizen and taxpayer as learning about the deplorable conditions at Walter Reed Army Hospital. It is simply excusable. If we can spend billions on military weapons, ships and aircraft, then we can maintain the VA hospitals that treat our wounded correctly. Alternatively, members of Congress should take a 50% pay cut to provide the monies for proper maintenance of military health care facilities.
If ABC/NBC/CBS sent news crews to interview the Joint Chiefs about PTSD, I'd guess treatment would change, just like Walter Reed was closed and Bethesda refurbished to provide better care.
ag99,
And that "suck it up" is what defines you and others like you to be "real men"?
n serling,
Bring back the draft?!!! That would require people getting out of mommy and daddys' basement plus it would mean that they would have to "put their lives (their self-centered lives)" on hold for the needs of this country. Would never, ever happen.
Serling- I agree with you that we are getting burnt out with the deployments. Being on #5 in 9 years I've had enough because we are in a reactive role. The first 3 we out hunting these POS's down but now we just sit back and let them attack before we do anything. I also feel everyone in the US sould be mandated a minimal of 2yrs service once they turn 18 and graduate. This would give them time to get out of mommy and daddy's house and transition to being an adult.
Let's just say that 1 out of 10 vets who apply to be compensated for PTSD are faking it. Does that serve as grounds for making the other nine jump through 40 hoops to get justifiable needs met? I don't think so. Denial of something's existence has always been the traditional approach for groups fighting to maintain the world as it was years ago and to support their not accepting what it has become. This (PTSD deniers) to shall pass.....e.g., women's vote, freeing the slaves, sane drug laws, equal rights for sexual orientations, a second term for a black president, etc...
right argument, wrong ratio. It's more like 1 in 10 really have it, so should we be paying the other 9/10 as though they were unemployable for the rest of their lives? VA pays 45 billion per year in cash. I know that "trillion" is the new buzzword in Washington, but have we forgotten just how much a billion dollars really is? And this has nothing to do with the rest of the VA budget for hospitals, benefits administration, cemetaries, etc..
@Dan, Only 1 in 10? Where did you get your Psych degree and what study on Veterans with PTSD were you involved with?
Now I may not have a psych degree and such but I am married to a vet with connected PTSD. Getting compensated as Unemployable is not easy. You do have to prove that you are unemployable. As for compensation below that level, with PTSD there is no easy way to show just how Disabled a person with the condition is. Some do show a clear disability but many like my wife may function at a reasonable level until the right trigger comes along that sends them into serious psychological issues. But even before that trigger event happens they still show signs and symptoms that negatively affect their lives and economic situations.
God bless your wife, Ed. I hope she gets better. I understand the disability system inside and out, but I know nothing of your wife's situation so I can't really engage in a discussion on that. Most cases where VA diagnoses PTSD it is just because the veterans were in a theatre of war (not even combat, neccessarily) and they now want cash. That is pretty much the requirements for a grant of benefits. 45 billion dollars/year later, tax payers keep shoveling the dough. The system is broken. But If I were you I would try to make sure your wife is maxed out. There is no reason why, with a little bit of homework, she can't get to 100 percent.
Dan we currently one year into the process and do expect an answer soon. Thank you for that support.
I am sure many do exactly that, but we must be careful not to overgeneralize to the point of hurting those who are affected but may not need, or be ready for, the help till later.
As a case in point my wife originally filed under 4 categories. PTSD was sort of an add on, but it was the only one of the 4 that were connected. We laughed and thought it was a joke, but took the compensation for PTSD in lieu of what we thought were her real issues. Life went on.
What I realize many years later is that the PTSD was a big issue. My wife dealt with it be being a workaholic. She functioned somewhat normally, but still had what I then called quirks that did slow down her earnings potential. One back surgery and two heart attacks within a one year period took away her coping mechanism and things have gone downhill, to the point of her needing to spend 23 days in a VA lockdown ward.
This is to Dan the skeptic I have put my family through hell with my PTSD from Nam. I'm listed as 70% now but not for PTSD. I refused to go to the VA for diagnosis, I didn't want the stigma atttached to me. But that was really selfish of me. I could have gotten treatment, to help me. That would've benefited my family and me
Tomvet, I dont think he is a skeptic based on his replies to me. I think he is a victim of partisan politics style of finding something wrong in a system and then wanting to trash the system rather than finding a way to fix it.
Ed, thanks for the partial endorsement, but I would note that I say the system is "broken" which is not trashing it, but rather, indicating it needs to be fixed. Even in your statement about your compensation you recognize that it was not the most significant problem your wife had but it happened to be the one you get cash for. While it sounds like you feel entitled to that benefit based on other things that you don't get compensated for, your comments still illustrate the problem at hand with paying $$$ for a disability that is really whatever a psychiatrist says it is. In your wife's case you recognize that she is a workaholic - but if PTSD is a "disability" then that means you do not have the same occupational functionality. Therein lies the rub, PTSD causes people problems at work unless they are "overcompensating" to supress their symptoms. You see, no matter what you do an articulate shrink can say it is PTSD. That is the problem I think this article is trying to address. I am much more in favor of free treatment for life, as opposed to $$$ for life. That would get us closer to reality in the extent that these diagnoses are handed out.
dan m,
"You see, no matter what you do an articulate shrink can say it is PTSD. " Since when can you apply that reasoning to JUST PTSD patients? It very well could and is applied to other disorders sonny.
What needs to be "fixed" is societys' views on mental health. I would have gotten help in a New York minute if it weren't for the stigma attached to it.
One more thing - "...but if PTSD is a "disability...". You want to step into my shoes and see what it's like"? If you did you sure as hell would call it a disability. Or better yet, just ask my wife and daughters.
To say that PTSD does not exist is asinine. I'm thinking the guy is some macho mini-mind who if he has been in combat, he's in deep denial about this own PTSD! I would think that anyone having served in combat, most probably has some form of PTSD. If not, he should just count himself very, very lucky instead of attacking his fellow vets.
And you prove Kevin R.C. “Hognose” O’Brien's point...
"Everybody has PTSD, and if you say you don't your in denial". and before you jump to the conclusion I am PTSD denier, get your stupid fingers off the key board. I agree, it does exist.
But let's not get into that witch hunt boat with the The McMartin preschool child molester ring circa 1982.
One should remember who is raising the red flags here, and the golden rule, "follow the money".
Tea baggers think it's another scam to get government handouts.
just like they don't believe in evolution, global warming or polling data.
@ Dubya1
If I am a TEAbagger, does that make you a Teabaggee? Would you like a sack of my hot nuts?
And I absolutely believe in the theology of evolution, and I fully admit it. The problem is most liberals, who say they are evolutionists, don't understand the full consequence of evolution, which is racist bigotry.
Global warming is known and verifiable fact. The cause of global warming is debatable, though. 15 to 20K years ago Ice sheets covered much of the northern hemisphere, they have been and continue to recede to this day. (It is not so much 'Global Warming' as it is Recovering from 'Global Cooling')
And who's polling data are you speaking of? You should read the book "How to Lie with Statics", by Darrell Huff, (if you can find a copy) or better yet take a statistics class.
I could argue that most of the PTSD claims, are exaggerated, with the intent of defrauding the public. Much as psychiatrist Dr. Joseph Tarantolo said. I have known many combat vets, (no I have never served) and many of them call these guys "pu**ies", "non hackers", "defective military hardware", etc. But I have known only one who suffered mental issues. A Vietnam vet who committed suicide this last summer. So my personal experience tells me this is a scam, and 1 in 10 is not the number of scammers, but the real number of truly effected.
But this is my personal experience, yours and other readers experiences may be different. And since we can only go through life based on our personal experiences, someone contradicting that is always looked upon with suspicion, even if they are correct.
But in response to your claims. My guess is you are too ignorant or of a sufficiently diminished mental capacity to formulate a cognitive and cohesive argument to support your position. And you must revert to parroting what others have said, even though you fail to fully comprehend what was said. But hey, you're cool, right?
Greetings DumbFarmBoy, I think many liberals understand the concept of Evolutionary Racism but they choose to treat all races equal anyways, I don't understand how that is a problem.
Yes you are correct that 15k years ago it was the end of an Glacial Period, but you are ignoring the fact that temperatures have gradually changed over thousands of years and now the temperatures are rising significant amounts in short periods of time. Oh by the way, your " Recovering from 'Global Cooling'" term is actual called an Interglacial Phase which is repeated throughout earths history and is understood quite well. However, as I stated before the recent jump in temperatures over the last decade is new.
Now onto the topic of Dr. Joseph Tarantolo, I quite enjoy the fact that you quote a conspiracy theorist who claims to have a great number of veteran friends while he himself does nothing but publish pieces that offend soldiers and veterans. By the way, all his pieces including his book are his opinions since he doesn't actually conduct any statistical studies, it's just the feeling he gets from the clients he has. He claims that at some point all soldiers realize they are International Murderers out of nothing more than fear, then they experience shame and guilt for their actions and use PTSD to distract the public from the fact that they are really monsters. You think veterans are in line to befriend this guy?
But the part I enjoy most about your post, is that you take a pretentious tone and demean Dubya1 for committing an act that you yourself are guilty of. You said to Dubya1:
But DumbFarmBoy, the only commentary you offered on PTSD is the opinions of Dr. Tarantolo. So which are you, ignorant or of diminished mental capacity?
Meant millennium when I said decade.
Let's get off the political name calling. I have many friends, non-veterans, of many different political ideals. None of them are insulting enough to claim PTSD does NOT exist.
Standard practice at every VA clinic/hospital is to start screening with a series of questions, regarding the recipients mental health. After asking a doctor "Why?" the answer was "More information regarding the physiological and psychological health of our veterans is discovered daily, and, as such, it is our responsibility to take care of them."
During earlier wars, there was a major stigma attached to any soldier claiming "battle fatigue." After the Vietnam War, things started to change, but very slowly. It is only in the last decade or so, PTSD has been recognized as a valid psychological problem. And that is because the civilian side has come to apply it in cases in civilian life, therefore, the military is bound to see more of it.
The way wars are fought has changed drastically over the last decade or so, and this has also contributed significantly to the problem. Any time society changes, as it is doing now, circumstances for the veteran also change, not always for the better. But, the veteran, as a rule, will be the one receiving the short end of the stick. And, as to anyone considering me unaware of the realities of the problem, I am a retired veteran, proud of my service.
There have been many times in history that climate has changed as 'fast' or even faster than it is now.
http://www.esd.ornl.gov/projects/qen/transit.html
True Bill, and with disastrous results. Just because it's happened before and we're here now, does that mean we should ignore it?
All I was stating is the climate has indeed changed in the recent past (900k years)as fast or faster than it is changing now. It also did this without any help from us. Read the article. Its very interesting. The part about ignoring it is a discussion for another forum.
@ Partofthe47% #6.2
1) You are correct, "they choose to treat all races equal anyways", but it denies the fact that we are not equal. The only place we are equal or supposed to be equal (at least in this country) is the court of law, and the field of opportunity. However, this is an argument of semantics. (as an aside, too often I find the liberals wish to create an equality of outcome, rather than an equality of opportunity)
2) And the sudden rise of temperature could be explained by the reduction in the ice sheets. It can be predicted that with the lessening of the ice sheets, more solar radiation is absorbed rather than reflected. The temperature rise could therefore be predicted as curve based on the relative reflective surface of the ice sheets. And I have said before on other posts, CO2 may just be an accelerant, and not a cause. But this is debatable, is it not? Unless of course, you are a devout believer in human caused global warming, and are not willing to entertain other causes. And again I might point out the golden rule, "Follow the Money" who is benefiting from all this Global Warming research funding? None of this is to say we should not be planning or preparing for what is coming. But let us not be rash in our preparations.
3) If you read my post correctly, "I could argue that most of the PTSD claims, are exaggerated", is a "Devil's Advocate" argument. I does not necessarily mean I believe it myself. I was merely pointing out, with evidence from the article and my personal experience (which if you noticed, I qualified) some holes in the article, as well as from other comments posted.
4) Dubya brought that upon himself, when he demeaned the TEA Party membership. Funny thing, I don't see him defending his post.
5) At this point, I have to admit "ignorant". I am not aware of the magnitude of the problem, or even if it is a problem or if it is something being drummed up by the MSM. You should have noticed that I posted a reference to a previous "Witch Hunt" and jumping on the band wagon.
What I do know is this, this is a very sticky wicket, and I understand both sides of the argument. The need to be "Macho", balanced with a need for mental stability. The men and women who serve our country are in a very difficult position, and they deserve our respect and our support. But I am not so naive as to give blind support to a gold brick. I think the best thing we can do as civilians, is give them a Commander in Chief who understands the military and one who has not shown disdain for it. One that can change the leadership model from the top down. {(Evidently they updated this article) I was going to reference the pilot who was afraid of being grounded, but I no longer see it, but the part about the soldier being promoted will suffice} We need to ensure our fighting men and women, can have access to help, without fear of stigmatism or "retribution". Perhaps we need to give the psychologists the same confidentiality and anonymity as the ministers. We also need to understand that no model is perfect and there will be outliers at each end of the bell curve.
dubya1,
The election is over, got it? If not then crawl out from under your rock.
This is a vey real disorder and no one should be humiliated and scrutinized about it. I wonder why these PTSD deniers are so mean and angry. Very pathetic.
No doubt because they have their own untreated disorders.
I am not Vet, but I have serious PTSD from a very F#@&ed up childhood. For anyone who doesn't believe, please come to my house and stand in a doorway while speaking in a hostile tone... see what happens, would you really want to find out. Something as simple as someone yelling at me makes me get tunnel vision and I see purple sepia, if you and I are lucky I am conscious of it - then there will just be a screaming match... if not, If I rage blackout from whatever happens next, better call 911...
PTSD splits my personality in two. I can go from a successful educated professional, to a dangerous sociopath within seconds. If anyone wants a glimpse into PTSD, I suggest watching the movie "harsh times" - specifically watch for the scene where someone gives bale a dirty look in traffic... his flip-out scene could have been taken right out of my arrest list.
We evolved out of being lizard brained brutes 100,000 years ago, we win now because of our complex minds. Strangely the deniers think you can put the new brain into a battle with explosions that the old lizard brain would have never seen, yet they think the two polar opposites will result in psychological congeniality. Deniers should be sent back 100,000 years so that they can be with their own kind.
Just reading about PTSD makes me shake.
Insightful post WalkWithMeInHell, thanks.
I have a mild form of PTSD from being in the second worst flash-flood in America's history when I was only 16-years-old and it has been absolute hell at times. I cant imagine what our troops must go through or someone with a more severe form of this awful affliction. I had only 1 terrible night which has stuck with me for my whole life; but these heros who have done this for years- I have so much sympathy for what they must be going through. God Bless our Troops and our abused women and children.
Science is easily debunked by sloppy thinking and weak minds. Sadly prevalent in the US today.
Dude, if your father is still having nightmares about his service more than 65 years later, he likely did have some form of PTSD.
True PTSD ruins every aspect of your life. Everything you thought you liked, or was important or knew, is subject to utter distruction. You can no longer depend on your ability to analyse a situation correctly, or trust your own judgement. Some people can put their life on some sort of "auto pilot" and function, but meaning is pretty much compromised ...
PTSD is caused by Global Warming.
These same skeptics probably have never been in a war so what gives them any credibility to understand what a person would go through
Or they deal with it (release it) in many various forms:
Alcoholism
Drugs
Gambling
Aggressive Behavior
Etc-etc-etc
Because those are more "manly" ways to deal with it, according to them.
I work with wounded vets and I think some of the worst deniers are those who had a traumatic event but didn't experience PTSD themselves - thus they have very little empathy for those who do. They see it as a moral failure rather than the biological response to stress that it really is.
@Walk
My wife dealt with hers by being a workaholic. When she became unable to work due to major back surgery and two heart attacks within one year, she went off the deep end due to the loss of her coping mechanism. She spent 23 days in a VA lockdown psych ward and is now on enough meds to snow a horse.
warrren,
"PTSD is caused by Global Warming." Going through life that ignorant has GOT to be a challange.
Society is judgmental about everything. There are still autism deniers out there, too.
I have lived in war for three and a half years. I never sought treatment. Twenty years later, I have tinnitus, I still have nightmares, my overall health has declined in ways doctors can't explain (no tumors, but there are attacks of extreme intestinal and stomach pain, which caused the observers call 911 quite a few times, I suffered from severe headaches for years after the war, depression, etc). Finally, a doctor suggested this summer that it's PTSD aggravating the physical symptoms. Injustice disturbs me to the level of being unable to speak. I also can't speak without being visibly physically disturbed about war experiences. It makes me look incompetent, confused, speaking incoherently and very quietly, and, well, so I don't. I can write about it, but can't read out loud what I wrote. It makes me shake and loose breath. When I have dreams, I feel like I will suffocate. I wake up breathless, and sometimes sweaty, fighting for air. I'm not faint-hearted and act with confidence and speedily in emergencies: I was the first helping injured people at work, and grabbing the phone and calling for help, while my coworkers would be shocked just to see blood. All this, yet, although I did loose family members, saw people fall under shells, and was often exposed to mortar, tank and cannon fire directly, I never held a weapon, or hurt anyone, nor did I suffer physical injury. It exists, and it affects people. Some bear it better, some worse. I thought I did great, unscratched compared to many, but I was wrong.
Just because they were not diagnosed, it does not mean that WWII veterans didn't suffer from it. It affected them, and their families. Google PTSD in WWII, and you'll see that's true. It's all about money. But those who send military to war and make big bucks off it should support the soldiers by more than a yellow sticker on the car: support them by helping them live healthier.
The SF blogger is opinionated and ignorant by choice. He has a right to be, but he should be labeled for what he is.
Good post bhgal, I'm learning much about the symptoms and consequences of PTSD from reading the comments of those who suffer from it. If you don't mind me asking, which conflict was it that you experienced?
Another reason some military personnel and veterans will deny they are suffering is because everyone assumes they are so crazy they are dangerous. This is not true, but the diagnosis all by itself can create road blocks to job and educational opportunities to say nothing of personal relationships down the road. That is unfair and unfortunate because people suffering from PTSD can learn to manage, control and overcome the disorder. My guess is that many people work and even live with PTSD sufferers and don't even know it.
PTSD certainly is over diagnosed both in the military and in the civilian world. One thing that does seem to be missing much more often in our society is some basic coping skills. The fact that the US is so over-medicated should tell us something. We are growing less and less capable of accepting any level of discomfort or unhappiness as normal and adaptive, much less inherent in human growth and experience, and that is a problem. There is a huge difference between a military person exposed to horrific events in war and someone diagnosed because they were teased in school.
The over diagnosis of PTSD is generally the result of untrained clinicians making the call or clinicians with limited time and pressure to come up with a diagnosis quickly. True mental health diagnoses take time, observation, longitudinal bahavior analysis, testing and possible medication trials. PTSD (and just about every other mental disorder) should never be diagnosed on the basis of a few office visits and brief therapy. Once a diagnosis is determined, it is next to impossible to rescind it or modify it or consider it cured. In this regard, mental disorders are treated differently from physical disorders.
This is the same issue as Agent Orange and Desert Storm syndrome - government dismissed it hard until the truth came out... anyone who when to war for the US, came back with PTSD... This is the first war that recognized it and is doing something about it... WWI, WWII, Korea and Viet Nam vets never had the chance to deal with it...
pete15,
Not quite. Vietnam vets were diagnosed with PTSD. We suffered just by the fact that we were vocal about our problems but that was what got the diagnosis in the books as Post Traumatic Distress Disorder. Before that, it was termed combat fatigue, shell shock, etc.
But it is society that not only does not believe it exists BUT ACTUALLY INCREASES THE SERIOUSNESS of this disease. Case in point: a judge while sentencing a Vietnam vet to prison said "It's been five (5) years since the war ended, you should be over it by now". I'm absolutely positive that what he said not only increased the prisoners PTSD (anger portion) but it damn well increased mine.
Why did it increase mine, you ask? Well think about this: all those "hero" WWII patients who were STILL in VA hospitals thiry-five (35) years after their war ended with mental issues. Why? THEY should have gotten over it by then by that judges' logic (or extreme lack of logic)! And don't get the idea that I think the WWII vets didn't or don't need the help.
The problem was and still is, is that to have it makes you somehow less then a person in todays' society.
I am a Vietnam vet --- one of the rare ones, I actually volunteered. And I saw my share of flying bullets and got hit with some. But I managed to hang on and come back without either PTSD (it was still called combat fatigue then) or survivor's guilt, which can be just as crippling.
But that does not mean that I do not believe that PTSD is a real effect of trauma --- beit war or a bad car accident. I watched too many of my buddies undergo major personality changes in Vietnam. Some grew up and became leaders, and others became full-time slackers. Most just did their job and got by, but a few simply had a need to adapt their personalities to the situation, but simply could not do it. A good friend simply refused to get out of his bunk one morning and was shortly shipped off to the PI. Another just could not handle anything connected with weaponry --- from the sounds of artillery hitting around the base to a car backfiring --- he would just seize up and it would be hours before you could talk to him. Just the sight of a weapon wasusually enough to do it. But these were good guys --- they just snapped under the stress. I never felt that I should judge them because tey had their own private hells to deal with.
(Tuy Hoa 67-68)
No direct experience myself, but a friend who was in Vietnam worked with me in the mid-seventies. He had some serious problems. There was a pent up rage that you got the feeling could be either suicidal or homicidal depending on the situation. I tried to help but was completely unable to; he lost his job.
A friend's step-mother was in Germany during WWII. She was a singer but lost her voice to PTSD caused by the bombing. She would always speak with a severe rasping sound. Years later she got some hypnosis therapy and once she answered the phone and her voice was perfectly normal (the first time I ever heard it that way). Unfortunately she regressed back after that.
Another WWII veteran acquaintance would involuntarily blink very hard every ten seconds. I don't know whether there was a concurrent thought or image.
So, it existed then just as now, but then it was poorly understood and their was no treatment. You don't get an award for "toughing it out" when there was little recognition and no treatment anyway.
I have been married to a Vietnam vet diagnosed with PTSD, and no, he doesn't receive benefits from the government for that. One reason being that when I took him to the Veterans bureau, he was treated as if he were applying for welfare benefits. Some cowardly little civilian standing behind a desk was talking to him as if he were mentally impaired. His condition was even grouped with drug abuse, something of which he was never guilty. He was humiliated and degraded. This was such an insult to a man who fought in a strange country, for his own country. He is a highly intelligent man, who suffered not only in war, but from the early loss of his mother. My question is, why is such a stigma placed on any mental disorder in the first place? No one is ashamed to go for treatment for kidneys, liver, or other parts of the body. So why should the brain be treated any differently? PTSD is not a reduction in intelligence. My husband is much more intelligent than many people I know that think themselves normal. He is a compassionate man who, if we didn't personally see to it that he had counseling, would be left to battle his own afflictions. I resent those who deny, and those who view PTSD as a weakness. All of those who go into battle deserve respect and compassion. Trust me, they don't choose to have PTSD, and it is no picnic for them to live with it.
I am a Vietnam vet with 24 years in the Navy. My experience was with the Special Warfare units that served on the rivers and canals of Vietnam. Our job was to seek out the enemy and usually at night. Fourteen SEALs and two boats with crew totalling 8 between the two, find the enemy, kill the enemy and get the hell out of there on the boats. Every night for 175 nights and sometimes during the day. The Navy tour was 183 days during which you saw nothing of the real world, only jungle and everyone in Vietnam that looked like the enemy! After years of denial, mulitple jobs, more time in the Navy,and multiple relationships I am still continuing mental health treatment and learning about what it is like to feel anxiety, depression and other stress related trauma and be on a benefit plan from the VA at 30% disability along with retirement pay. I other words entitlements which I painfully earned and lived through hell to get to elegibility. PTSD exists as a real illness that is treatable but is still rejected by the few that have "never" had an incident that casuses PTSD, just ask the survivors of plane crashes, car accidents, 9/11 , falling down a mountain, the list goes on. And yes PTSD is recognized by the VA but at a rate of percentage of the abiltiy of the vet to fit into society, after all they say, it was only a war!
navy,thnks,welcome back.navy here too.only 3yrs back in 80s.they will learn as it goes down the road.been permenent for 5yrs now.leared something about va docs and system.sometimes they will mess with you just to get a reaction.got more then 1 from me.nuff said. to comment about hearing and ringing of ears,think in story.right,mines in military record,was told years ago gee,we really wish we could help more but you didnt complain enough.fast forward;no,no compensaion but atleast i get 'new aids' every 5yrs.they arent worth my agrivation anymore,nuff said.thnks to those all who served.
What society doesn't get is how much "war" there is and how different every "war" is. No 2 wars are even close to one another, let alone your experiences vs the guy next to you are not completely the same either. And yes there are "domestic wars" raging to this day, being fought in the streets, our homes, the raising of our children, etc. It is just "war", but tell me something important that's not a battle and multiple battles, hence a "war"?
I don't know about being overweight, but generally speaking, PTSD is the result from trauma, and not just in war. I know, I lived it, I survived it. My brother was destroyed by psychotic, alcholic rage in our childhood. It's the result of child abuse. That's PTSD. Turned inward, it's mental illness; turned outward, it's crime. Approximately 80% of those in prison were abused. The deniers are knuckle draggers, and probably the cause of PTSD in their own homes. We need to evolve to a higher level. Before we diagnosis mental illness, we need to consider the origin within the home environment. Most of those in prison can be rehabilitated and returned to society as law abidding citizens, with indeterminate sentences, education, and counseling. PTSD is trauma - just ask the soldiers, and the kids who live in fear, or ask any FBI profiler.
Take the skeptics...suit them up and send them to war for a few years...they will then be believers. Anyone that doubts this problem that has never been to war...a real war...need to see for themselves.
True Steve, or let them live with someone who has it. Let them see firsthand the nightmares and the fighting that occurs in their dreams. Let them awaken to the bruises made by someone totally unaware that they actually hit anything or anyone, and see the remorse on the faces of the person after they have awakened. And I think it must be so much worse for today's soldier who is deployed far too many times. There is a limit to what any one person is capable of tolerating.
I hear ya PWV! I had a buddy that when you came to visit would be hiding behind a couch with a service 45 yelling at invisible combatants...and then would sit in the closet crying uncontrollably.
These doubters make me sick to my stomach because they are only trying to help the greedy bastards from paying to get these guys help.
Every man or woman that goes to war for any length of time should get the medical care they NEED...no questions asked.
They couldn't handle it. I've found most people accuse you of what they are truly guilty of. They couldn't do what "we've" done, seen, heard, smelled, been through. They are the "cowards", the "excuse makers", the "lazy" ones, the one's wanting "attention, sympathy, money" etc. etc. Not me, not you. Take it, I don't want it, or anything from anyone for that matter; and NO, I don't get any "monetary" benefit at all from multiple forms of and diagnosis of severe PTSD, not that there is any benefit to PTSD; just lots of ignorance to deal with.
I can tell you that PTSD exists, and though war can certainly cause it, it's not the only situation that does. I know several people with PTSD surrounding rape or childhood abuse. I got PTSD when my life was threatened repeatedly at college by a "friend" who was clearly psychotic AND had multiple personalities (and yes I studied psychology and get these distinctions).
Here's the truth of PTSD from the inside: you don't just relive the experience in terms of remembering it. Your body is juiced on all of the chemicals related to fear, adrenaline, anger, helplessness, anxiety and depression that you experience during the trauma. So as you feel those feelings over and over again, the experience feels "real" to your body.
Sleep also becomes very difficult because your dreams are muddled with memories and scary scenarios your mind concocts and the chemicals make them seem powerfully real. On top of this, for some reason, PTSD seems to have unlocked the mechanisms that kept my body still and quiet when I slept, so even now with the PTSD gone, I thrash moan and scream in my sleep. At the time I had PTSD, I woke up thrashing cursing and screaming in a cold sweat angry and terrified on a nightly basis. The exhaustion didn't help anything let me tell you.
If you don't believe me or the vets who report it, sit down for an hour with someone who has or has had PTSD. They will tell you that it is a very real experience like no other.
I believe you, because I have it, and unless you're very well educated in this field alone, you just described a fraction of it in detail to a "T", that the "fakers" in my opinion couldn't get it that "right", and not all the time, because almost all of it is now subconscious, you don't have a clue that you've "changed" or do things different now, it was actually the insight of others that truly know me and have known me a long time that initially pointed out a lot of the "symptoms", then God bless my wife for taking the initiative on her own to really study and research this, I'm sure it saved our marriage and relationship, she understands me better than I do and has pointed things out that are side effects of PTSD that I never in a milltion years would have ever linked the two together. good luck with your journey, even if you do support Obama :) (hope you know I'm joking) I appreciate your comment.
We know. We have been there. Mine started 40 years ago from trauma that was not war. My 12 year old son was shot in the face with a shot gun just half a block from the house. The shooter a 15 year old had waited on him and way laid him on his way to baseball practice. The shooter shot him and then stole his blood splattered new baseball glove I had just bought him for his 12th birthday. I was the first adult on the scene.
He died in my arms.. And he has been dying there over and over again every since.
I still have dreams and at first they can be wonderful dreams. I can talk to him and smell his hair. And we can run on top of water. Until he suddenly sinks out of sight and I desperately try to save him. I wake to find myself swimming with all my might on top of my floor carpet. Many, dreams that take me back to a deep mourning state of mind.. I fear sleeping and taking sleep medications make them worse I can only half wake up and I can scream at my self to wake up, wake up it takes a longtime to get awake. And if I go back to bed I will go back into the nightmare. Over and over again I can get pulled back into the nightmare when ever I fall asleep. Many different nightmares that seemed to come from nowhere without warning.
After the Sandy Hook tragedy I found myself once again standing in the cereal isle looking up at the boxes of cheerios, his favorite cereal, and I cried for the mothers at Sandy Hook who lost their babies in such a horrible way. With his glove on his hand he waved.."Catch-ya later Mom" their last words are branded into your brain and the sound of their voices never change.
Those who do not believe need to be on their knees being thankful that they have never suffered a brain freeze type trauma that the brain refuses to accept or to deal with.
One of the reason that the veterans benefits claims for WWII,Korea and Vietnam are so much lower is due to the VA denial of these claims and not allowing the appeal process to leave the VA. I filed for disability benefits in 1977 within 3 months of my discharge. I was denied and I am still waiting for the VA review my appeal and decided if it should proceed to veterans Court. Response to a recent FOIA indicated that the VA no longer has any record of my claim. I have original documents of my claim but the VA position is if we do not have a copy then the claim was never filed.
Now men and women being discharge or released from active duty in most case have a physical both mental and medical at the time of discharge.
After spending two tours in Southeast Asia, ( Air Force - no actual combat ) I thought I was just going back home. I did not realize I was slightly bent in my mind. I just couldn't relate to other people in any manner to encourage friendship. I even ruined a shirt and pants when I heard a siren and dived onto the ground very quickly. Maybe PTSD, maybe not, but I was not the person I was when I went into the service. I did not even know I needed help, bit as I look back, I was in pretty sad shape. It has pretty much settled down, but things still happen. I went to festival and they were having rides in Hueys. I didn't think about it until one went over me at about 150 feet. I instantly had goose bumps from my toes to my head. There was also a funny taste in my mouth. Maybe PTSD in over diagnosed, but I believe it is real and still affects even older vets.
You just discovered fear. And what you are feeling is an adrenalin rush of fight or flight. I am sure you wanted to get the hell away from there as fast as possible. Now you just need to stop being frightened by the feeling and you will be able to learn to use it to your advantage. It can save your life when you are in danger of bodily harm. You can jump higher, run faster, lift more weight and climb things to heights you never thought possible.
of course military officials are the deniers of PTSD. We are talking about people who kill or get other people to kill for a living right? By pure definition this type of person cannot be relied upon to think clearly in terms of our society outside of war. A normal and stable person cannot kill people with impunity and then rejoin polite society transparently. Ask OJ if you want more evidence.
I agree with you up till the "ask OJ" comment; other than I get what you're saying about taking another life. It is not right. While it is in our nature to destroy one another and ourselves, it's NOT in our nature to take another humans life. Those that seemingly do it so easily without remorse or second thought, they're NOT RIGHT, they're messed up, they are narcissistic, socio/psychopaths, with personality disorders that need institutionalized along with imprisonment. Anyone that can just kill at will without second thought is either a liar or screwed up. Others have lost their life at my hands, it's not cool, it's not Hollywood, it's not fun... I did what I needed to do and had to do, just so I and many others could literally live to see another minute, another day, our loved ones. I was prepared (so I thought) as far as if it came down to that, if I had to do it to protect others innocents and myself from death or serious bodily injury, I knew I could, and I would again. While I did "choose" to serve and do what i did, I didn't ask to HAVE to ever do that, I was forced by others actions and always took it to this is the absolute last option. My sanity comes from knowing I did it right, I exhausted every other alternative, prior to leathal action and then was forced to do what I did, but it was justified, legal, and within the laws. If it weren't for that knowledge and peace of mind I would probably be in a mental institution.
The military works very hard to re-frame your personality and thinking in accession training (for enlisted, that's basic military training or BMT) so that the environment and work will not be as traumatic as it could be without such training. BMT is designed to be traumatic in a controlled way. It is designed to, in a very short time, re-engineer how a person reacts to all kinds of stress that will be experienced in military service so that they are productive and don't harm themselves or others. That is why most military veterans can spot many other veterans very quickly. There is an indelible personality imprint that never leaves them. Without the kind of accession training the US uses, the trauma military members experience in traumatic stress situations would be far worse than it already is. In that context, it is the military training that puts the ability to wage war within the grasp of ordinary humans without utterly destroying them. As a veteran, I can categorically tell you there is a huge substantive difference in committing lethal actions directed at an enemy and how one behaves in ordinary civilian life. They are as distinct as night and day.
However, no amount of training really prepares one for the severity of stress in all situations and it affects every individual very individually. Some individuals develop unhealthy or harmful survival reactions. Some find it difficult to keep the world of waging war distinct from ordinary civilian life after severe traumatic stress. The war related survival mechanisms get brought into civilian life in unhealthy or harmful ways. For all the deniers out there, be incredibly glad you did not suffer the experiences or effects that many others did.