Because their idiots who think anything that's different is an abomination

in a nutshell: xenophobia

It's Not people who think it is an abomination. "If a man lies with mankind as he lies with a woman, they have both committed an abomination." Leviticus 20:13 GOD Wrote that, Not Man. Have a problem, take it up with HIM. Lots of Luck!

Alan, quoting from Leviticus makes you look like a cherry picking zealot.

Besides, the Bible is not the end all be all of morality, no religion is, so stop trying to pass it off as an authority on the matter.

...Alan says as he sits down to his big ol' plate of crawdads.....

Alan,

Yeah and in Leviticus he claims shellfish are abominations too. Are you out there trying to reprogram oysters to climb out of their shells???

Your God is irrelevant in this discussion. Please, I beg you, go into a court and use "Well God says so" as an argument. Just make sure to video tape it so I can watch you being laughed at.

Alan-1380274

It's Not people who think it is an abomination. "If a man lies with mankind as he lies with a woman,

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The four men say they were lured into JONAH’s services through deceptive practices and then subjected to humiliating and emotionally damaging therapy techniques, including group sessions in which they were instructed to stand naked in a circle with their counselor, who was also undressed

But you're OK with a bunch of guys standing around naked looking at each other???

Imbecile.

Maxwell, sounds like you are talking about our Liberal government.

to thewhitejudge: how many different articles do I have to correct your language? It's they're and not their.

Why can't people mind their own business? Why must they insist on controlling others' behavior?

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

ozmosis

Maxwell, sounds like you are talking about our Liberal government.

Uhhhh ozmosis, liberals aren't the ones looking into women's bodies or people's bedrooms to deny them their rights.

Ozmosis, what liberal policies are trying to control behavior?

It's the conservative group who wants to restrict access to contraceptives and abortion, bar gay people from marrying and adopting, keep pot illegal etc. not liberals who are on the side of allowing people the personal freedom to have sex, contraception, marry, etc.

LJ...you noticed that sentence too.....pretty perverse if you ask me. Yeah, I'm going to try to stop you from doing drugs so I'll do them with you......LOL

Alan, your god has NEVER written anything!

What are you talking about? They SIGNED UP for this therapy. It didn't work. So move on. It's not an exact science. They could have easily checked the validity before signing up.

it's not a science at all.

mixedpie

It's the conservative group who wants to ... keep pot illegal etc. not liberals

er... tell that to President Obama.

Alan Leviticus 20:13 GOD Wrote that,

Sorry Alan but God never wrote one thing in the Bible. Men wrote the bible as many as 800 years after his death. Over the next 2000 years Man keeps Re-Writing the Bible to what they think is right. If you believe in the Bible don't be a cafeteria Christian, it's all or nothing. A husband may kick his pregnant wife in the belly to abort a baby if he believes it's not his. Stone your children who are bad. An eye for an eye but turn the other check. God made us all im-perfect and gave us freedom to chose. That means you do not have the right to tell others what to do with their lives, as I have no right to tell you what to do with yours.

Alan,

"If a man lies with mankind as he lies with a woman, they have both committed an abomination." Leviticus 20:13 GOD Wrote that, Not Man."

The book of Leviticus has traditionally been ascribed to a MAN named Moses. His name was not God, and furthermore, modern Biblical scholarship questions the traditional belief that the MAN's name was even Moses or whether or not that book was even written by a single MAN. At any rate, it's about time someone sued these fools. The whole practice is fraudulent, and these men ought to win their lawsuit. I hope they do win it.

I love how the American Taliban quote old testament scripture until the cows come home as long as it supports their narrow little ideology. However, when anyone else quotes old testament to illustrate their hypocrisy, they say "the old testament doesn't matter - Jesus changed all that!" Wankers.

Why we all agree that this type of therapy is pretty useless, the one problem I have with this is that (from the info in the article), all these men went to the therapy of their own accord. If they felt shamed or embarrassed or that the therapy was wrong, then stop going and use your own judgement that it was a load of crap. Sounds to me that they are trying to make a quick dollar off of a bad experience instead of just chalking it up to a bad experience, learning from it, and moving on. Typical for todays people in America it seems.

If they win, I wonder if Michelle Bachmann and her husband will be sued on the same grounds?

Sarah-3043284 Do some research before you question why shellfish were called an abomination. It might help you to understand why those rules and statements were made and put in the bible.

Shellfish are filter feeders. They filter the water they are in. When the waters are filled with poisonous algaes, the shellfish filter that water and concentrate the poisons within themselves.

From eating pig meat and getting sick, the people of old learned that pig meat was dangerous. The idea then was to populate not indulge in risky behaviour that would kill off the population.

Hence when people eat/ate them, they became sick and/or died.

You can learn a lot from reading the bible and understanding it and the reasons that some passages are put into it.

The same goes for lobsters, shellfish and pigs in olden times and even today. Meat from a pig has to be cooked at a higher temperature to kill tapeworm and trichinosis. Here are the passages from the Koran and the Bible.

These are the creatures that you may eat from among all the animals that are upon the land. Everything that possesses a split hoof, which is fully cloven, and that brings up its cud – this you may eat. But this is what you shall not eat from what brings up its cud or possesses split hooves – the camel, because it brings up its cud but does not possess split hooves...and the pig, because it has split hooves that are completely cloven, but it does not bring up its cud – it is impure to you and from its flesh you may not eat.— Leviticus 11:2–4, 7–8

And the pig, because it possesses split hooves and does not bring up its cud — from its flesh you may not eat. — Deuteronomy 14:8

From the Koran:

"He has forbidden you only the Maitah (dead animals), and blood, and the flesh of swine, and that which is slaughtered as a sacrifice for others than Allah . But if one is forced by necessity, without wilful disobedience, nor transgressing due limits, then there is no sin on him. Truly, Allah is Oft-forgiving Most Merciful."

The refers to prohibition of homosexuality so that the human race can propagate. And you do know that 98% of all humans are heterosexual.

It's Not people who think it is an abomination. "If a man lies with mankind as he lies with a woman, they have both committed an abomination." Leviticus 20:13 GOD Wrote that, Not Man. Have a problem, take it up with HIM

To use a biblical term, "Not one jot or tittle" was actually written by God. It was all written by mortal men, then copied, edited, and translated by mere mortals. Even the decisions on which writings were to be considered "Scripture" and which to be considered "Apocrypha" was made by mere mortals.

When Jesus was supposedly here on earth, and had the chance to write the definitive Gospel - He didn't. Instead, the entire New Testament was written decades to centuries later, by ordinary people.

The mortal origins, internal contradictions, moral ambiguity, and scientific nonsense in the Bible is why I don't take it seriously as anything other than an epic work of historical fiction. Fortunately, I live in a nation of religious freedom, where the laws are not based on any kind of religious scripture. Your religious laws don't apply to anyone outside of your religion.

refers=references

Jodeman,

"Sounds to me that they are trying to make a quick dollar off of a bad experience instead of just chalking it up to a bad experience, learning from it, and moving on."

I would tend to agree with you except for one thing, i.e. doing as you suggest would not prevent this organization from continuing to defraud others. The advertising claims it can do something it cannot do, i.e. convert gay men into straight men, and that remains the case whether they signed up for it voluntarily or not. It's still a fraud.

Yes, the Bible IS the final say on everything in life. Sadly, so many want to do their own thing and sin all they want so they make up the idea that there either is no God or that God loves them and is willing to tolerate everything they do despite what He Himself wrote was sin. To those who believe in God, Jesus our Lord and Savior, and the Bible ... take heart. One day every knee WILL bow and every tongue confess that Jesus IS Lord of all. They will either do it willing in this life or by force in the next. Remember, believers, God gets the final say ... and we get the last laugh. :)

Because your flagrantly gay people can't keep their gay to themselves, and eventually someone has enough and tries to do something about it. If these gay radicals would quit trying to rub it in everyone's face and quit downing so hard on "breeders", no one would have a problem.

But hey, you probably meant the JONAH people were trying to control people's behavior.

It amazes me that peopledon't think Jesus was gay. He never had a girlfriend, nowhere in the bible does
it say he ever tried to get some cooter, he goes to the beach and wants 12 guys to leave with him, he knew he was going to die so he had one last dinner party and invited guys only, he wants all men to "kneel down before him" when he “comes again”, and if you say Jesus backwards it is sounds like "sausage" (bible code). If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck.... you can probably make duck l'orange out of it.

This should actually be a rather interesting lawsuit. They participated in the therapy voluntarily, so it will come down to a few things. First, were they told of the success rate. Success rate may be extremely low, but if they were aware of the success rate then they have a weak case. If the organization claimed a high success rate or gave out a false number, then they have a strong case. I'm guessing there is some paperwork consenting to the procedure so it really depends on how or if the success rate is worded. If there is a clause claiming that success is not guaranteed, it would be difficult to win the lawsuit. It's difficult to win a fraud case where there is a disclaimer in the contract.

Second, were they aware of possible side effects of the therapy. If they were, then they have a weak case. If it was withheld from them then they have a strong case. Once again, this may be covered in contracts signed with JONAH.

I suspect that the results of this case if taken to court will come down to how well JONAH worded their contracts to protect them from lawsuits and if such wording is determined to have provided enough information for participants to make an informed choice.

For Rob. Recall that many sections of the bible were written many years after the actual events and quite possibly "altered" by the church before inclusion in the bible. So, it's difficult to tell the accuracy such things as the last supper or the Bible's account of his relationship with women.

Allan, "God" didn't write that stuff in Leviticus - men did. And other men translated it, and when they couldn't decipher some words, they made it up.

Samantha, you can believe what you will, but factually, the Bible is not the final say on anything; it's merely a compilation of letters written by men, selected by others, translated and translated again by yet others.

so the accuracy of the bible should be questioned? I think we definately agree on that.

Consider this: From an evolutionary perspective, throwing out things like free will and choice, human beings evolved through processes of natural selection. Over time some genetic traits are weeded out. One would have to assume that if their is a "gay gene" or a genetic predisposition to "being gay" that would have been quickly wiped out due to the obvious fact that Gay people either are less likely to procreate or simply don't procreate throughout human history. The scientific community HAS NOT found a correlation between homosexual behavior and our genetics. Get your facts straight.

And seriously, I love reading both sides of debates that have some biblical aspect associated with them. On one hand you have crazy people who overemphasize and take scripture out of context, tell people they are going to hell and basically just look stupid, while at the same time dragging the bible down with them. One the other hand you have left wingers, agnostics and athiests who don't really know a thing about the bible but think they do and say even more irrational and ridiculous things. Lets be clear, everyone has a different worldview and whether you like it or not you are putting yoru faith in something, eventhough you might claim to be an athiest. As a basic historical text the bible is incredible. It also tells a very serious story about a very serious man who has some pretty serious things to say. Lets not cheapen it. And please if you want to bash it, I would start by reading it, somewhere around Matthew or Luke. Thanks

Wood, the 2011 Johns Hopkins study on genetics of homosexual men would like to disagree with you. and you're furthermore completely ignorant on how genes work. Genes can be responsible for many different things all at once, and environmental and chemical factors can determine to what degree these genes activate. Alzheimer's has a genetic link, but it doesn't always activate in carriers. The common 8 genes of homosexual men found in the study have several factors out of most people's control. Get YOUR facts straight.

wood, people wouldn't cheapen the bible if we hadn't already proven the vatican did, over 2000 years worth of cheapening.

You know, I used to be heterosexual, but then I went to straight conversion classes, now I am a well adjusted gay man who fits rights into normal society.

As for Michael Ferguson, Chaim Levin and Ben Unger, message me sometime. I'm so sorry Sheldon, but you're not my type.

Patrick- Again, there is ABSOLUTELY NO scientific conclusion or consensus that there is a so called gay gene. Period. You can site a study and I can site another, the fact is there is nothing that can be reproduced or measured to tell a person they are going to be gay or say yes, you were born that way. Its an agenda though.

it's merely a compilation of letters

The Bible consists of stories crafted in the hyperbole style which was common of that age. Stories which are based on actual accounts of recorded history in the Middle East region of the world.

Being gay in the scientific sense is a person who suffers from a genetic mutation of normal human behavior. In reality, they have a neurological disability or in some cases disabilities (an area science is beginning to just now discover). They were born without the natural attraction for the opposite sex.

Patrick- what does that even mean? It doesn't make sense. Lets stick to the text. I am talking about the bible, not the catholic church or any of its separate teachings. I would agree, anything added to the bible looks suspicious, but you have to deal with the book separately.

tjohn_missouri

If they win, I wonder if Michelle Bachmann and her husband will be sued on the same grounds?

The two of them should sue; it obviously didn't work on her husband, either.

Wood, that is the reality of a great deal of genetics itself. But to find 8 common genes among 33,000 gay males is pretty substantial. Huntingtons' doesn't always show up. Neither is alzheimer's a dead-set ending if you carry the genes. Genetics is probability. And I can hunt down probably 6 studies easily from CREDIBLE sources. I'd like to see you come up with one that wasn't directly funded by a whacko like Newt Gingrich.

The Bible, it's not so much rules as it is guidelines. LOL

Curing Gay, another snake oil patent medicine for the USA. Throw the book at them and make sure they go bankrupt.

I have a business idea - the Institute for Turning People Gay! In my radical new institute we will take straight men and teach them how to turn Gay. This will, among other things, ensure lucrative careers for them in the interior decoration, designing and fashion industries. As a final test, you have to lie naked with six beautiful naked women and not get a boner.

Investors are welcome. Get on board now before the opportunity disappears!

Wood, the Dead Sea Scrolls, the oldest bible in existence, have unequivocably proven the catholic church has revised (meaning literally changed with additions and removals) the bible, not just editted it, into the current version of today. Today's bibles are cheap lies and immitations of the original.

I think these people felt conflicted in life due to their religious beliefs and therefore sought out therapy. I highly doubt anyone forced them to go and they at the time always had the opportunity to stop believing in religion and accept being gay; in fact this seems to be what they decided in the end, just it took them some time and trouble to come to this conclusion. I think also the people running these program are for the most part sincere and not making big money off it. Maybe this court case will have one good outcome in that the public will maybe be able to find out if there are any significant number of people who go through these programs and successfully reorient themselves or if this is all quackery. Anyway my real point is that the people running the program and these people who subjected themselves to it are all the same responsible as they all have the same religious beliefs that drove them to offer this therapy and to receive this therapy.

Now if these clowns can pull this off I need to find a clinic / doctor willing to treat me, get me over the fact that I am attracted to women. If after my treatment I don’t chose the gay life style I think I might sue for millions. Just think what my wife and I could do with that kind of money.

Give it a few years and our liberal society will be endorsing sisters marring sisters, brothers marring sisters, why not marry anyone you want or better yet as many as you want at the same time. Isn’t that the big argument with gays being able to marry? Shouldn’t you be able to marry if you are in love and want to commit to each other, no matter what the circumstances?

Sounds pretty far fetched to me but there will be some group of idiots that will use the same arguments used today to support this BS. It is simply the liberal mindset.

Umm.these 'gays' SOUGHT OUT the very people they are sueing becasue they thought they had a 'problem'. They found the therepists that they thought could help and those therapists did not hide their "cure" in no way......NOW THEY'RE SUED FOR THE VERY SERVICES THEY ADVERTISED FOR??? HA HA HA

Today's opinion while i will give you pig is bad for along with alot of the other meat that people eat. however I really don't think there is huge demand for populating the earth any more we are pretty much full.

markmo and just one guy most of them were in their teens when they went. I very seriously doubt the had much choice in the matter. i know when i was a teen i did not have a whole lot to say on what went around the house.

Just a thought:

If I offered treatment for being "poor" instead of being "gay" and my success rate was very low, say 1 in a million, I would still have had some success and there would be people out there that benefited from my program. There would also be a lot of people who called me a quack and a fraud. And there would be those who call me a zeolot and a bigot. This is true with many mainstream accepted programs.

Personally, I like to be free to choose even if I choose poorly. After all, we are only differentiated by the choices we make.

Why are people in such a hurry to pass laws restricting the choices we can make? Are people so afraid that they might make a poor decision that they cry out to the government to limit their choices? This makes no sense to me.

Matt I do believe that you have a point, just a bit confussed on part of it. Its pretty cut and dry; if there gay their gay, if there not their not pretty cut and dry. If someone goes through this therapy, goes in gay come out not I for one don't believe they were ever really gay, perhaps just confussed at the hand of another, and in a case like that this therapy would be a good thing for that person. But still they did not change anyone just helped them be there true self.

Most homosexuals are not obsessed with other people's sex life. Why is this a "one way street?" Snake Oil dealers, scam artists, conversion therapists, are the new witch doctors selling their "cures" and quackery. Time to "put them out of business" and expose them for what they are -- fakes and charlatans.

Remember, believers, God gets the final say ... and we get the last laugh. :)

Somehow, I really don't think God would appreciate your attitude in the least. He (or she) is supposed to be all about love and forgiveness, not pride ... which remember "goeth before a fall"

Maxwell - You ask why people can't mind their own business - but isn't it obvious that these four SOUGHT OUT therapy, it was not forced on them. JONAH was minding their business of providing therapy for those who supposedly want to change their lives.

Patrick - you have no clue what the Dead Sea Scrolls contain. They do not prove the Catholic Church changed the scriptures at all. As a matter of fact, they provide more data to bring us to a more accurate reading of the original content, but are in agreement with the already accepted text to a surprisingly great degree.

And you probably know even less about genetics Patrick. Clearly homosexuality is not genetic - given the fact that identical twins do not always have the same preferences.

seawa,

You say "if there gay their gay, if there not their not".

Is this your opinion? If not, please cite your source because I have read extensively on the subject and I would not make that statement.

I am not trying to argue but rather to learn. I have a close friend whose journey includes "coming out" and coverting back.

Jensen, you have a clue, it's a shame that way too many others don't subscribe to your common sense.

It is true that gays don't fret about what heterosexuals do behind closed doors. It would be nice if the same courtesy was extended.

Jeff, you clearly don't understand genetics. It's a game of probability based on environmental and chemical factors which cause genes to express in varying degrees. Two people with the exact same blue eyes genes can have differently pigmented eyes because of this concept. Also, the Dead Sea Scrolls contain 85% of our current biblical scripture. Also, there is a 30% discrepancy between the scrolls and any modern bible. That is enormous.

It amazes me that peopledon't think Jesus was gay. He never had a girlfriend, nowhere in the bible does
it say he ever tried to get some cooter, he goes to the beach and wants 12 guys to leave with him, he knew he was going to die so he had one last dinner party and invited guys only, he wants all men to "kneel down before him" when he “comes again”, and if you say Jesus backwards it is sounds like "sausage" (bible code). If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck.... you can probably make duck l'orange out of it.

The bible may be incorrect regarding his marital status. A lot of people think he was actually married; many even think Mary Magdalene became his wife.

I could give a @!$%# why they're considered "abominations". The point is, what the Bible says, or doesn't say, about homosexuality is as irrelevant as what it does or doesn't say about shellfish.

If these four are so confident that "something's not broken", why did they try to fix it?

Oh yeah, Sarah, using correct grammar, you would have written: " I could NOT give a @!%#".....just sayin"! Furthermore, what you do or don't consider irrelevant is just @!$%# to me.

......"The four men say they were lured into JONAH’s services through deceptive practices and then subjected to humiliating and emotionally damaging therapy techniques, including group sessions in which they were instructed to stand naked in a circle with their counselor, who was also undressed."

...>>>>> "say they were lured".

***Truth is liberals, homosexuals, NBC, and SPLC are capable of lying too.

DON'T MISS THE TRUTH!

homosexuals are forbidden to donate blood !!!!! their deviant behavior is a risk to the nations blood supply !!!!!! that should be enough to show how dangerous the homosexual lifestyle is !!!!!!!!!!!

Scott, that rule was abandoned years ago. I'm gay and I've donated blood 6 times over the last 2 years.

There is a large number of people, particularly man, who were raped at a very gentle age and than were able to reawaken their sexual feelings towards woman.

It doesn't work in 100% of cases. And sometime, based on articles I red, it took some search to find the right approach. Still, didn't work for some.

Fact is this article wades into a patient - doctor realm. Doctors know what they are doing better than journalists of MSN.

Scott is partially correct ... gay MEN cannot donate, or at least it's very restrictive.

FDA rules currently ban blood donation by any man who has had sex with another man since 1977. Surprisingly, men who acknowledge having sex with an HIV-positive woman or with a prostitute are banned from donating blood for only one year. CBS News -- 2010

I suspect that will change as it has in Great Britain and now it's only a one year wait. http://www.blood.co.uk/can-i-give-blood/exclusion/

There also is no restriction on gay women giving blood.

BTW: IF you were in the military in Germany from 1980-1990 you can't give blood either!

(I do highly doubt that Mr. Shuler has squat to do with the CDC.)

McDonalds lured me into thier resturant for one of thier OCB sandwiches. It didn't taste as good as i thought. I think I will sue.

It simply looks like another attempt to retire by a few people who don't know how to exist in the real world. Beyond that I read the same arguments back and forth about gays. Maybe they will go into court with nothing on but pretty pink panties to prove the theropy didn't work. Obviously they felt that being gay was wrong or they would not have been looking to get fixed. either that or they had this plan all along and we seeking cash and not a cure all along.

What are you talking about? They SIGNED UP for this therapy. It didn't work. So move on. It's not an exact science. They could have easily checked the validity before signing up.

According to the article, one of them was in his 20's. As far as I'm concerned, he doesn't have a case. If he didn't like what was happening, he didn't have to stay. He's old enough to know the whole thing is fraudulent. The article said that the others were in their "late teens" ... too vague when the exact age is very important here. If they were younger than 18, they have a definite case. Even a bit older, they might have a case because they're still subject to parental pressure (still living at home, or needing assistance with college costs), and so wouldn't feel free to leave the sessions.

Isn't that the same book in the Bible that (later on) says if you wear checks with stripes that it is also a sin. The book was first written in arameic and then translated into greek and then into latin and then into english. Plenty of room for translation errors.

I love how the Church says that Jesus was never married, and they consider it blasphemy to consider otherwise. Yet, the Church holds marriage as one of its holiest sacraments.

So... what exactly would be the problem if Jesus had been married to Mary Magdalene, or whoever?

People need to mind their own business. Unless people being gay is putting a real hamper on your life, or making your life more difficult, IGNORE IT.

@Scott

You've been reported for threats of stalking/harassment. Read the CoH.

What's more, you're wrong: the ban is a policy, not a law. In addition, under current FDA guidelines, homosexuals can be organ donors as well; the receiving hospital is simply notified if the donor had MSM contact in the last five years.

I am not sure that I agree with this lawsuit - and im a lesbian.

I do think these organizations do more damage than they do good, but ultimately they serve a purpose.

Clearly these guys (and or their families) felt there was something wrong with being gay, and felt it was something that needed to be cured. I dont agree with that, but that is what makes America great - we are allowed the freedom to think how we want, and to make choices based on those thoughts.

I dont know what caused them to change their minds about gayness needing to be cured, but I seriously doubt it was because the therapy didnt work.

I have no doubt the therapy doesnt work for MOST people - but I do believe that it works for some. Not that I think it actually cures them, but I think that it helps some people believe that pretending to be straight to please GOD, their church, their family and community TRUMPS how they truly feel deep down.

For as long as this planet has been turning, gay men and women have pretended NOT to be gay - most often just to survive (not be killed). It doesnt mean they arent gay...just means, you dont know they are gay.

I cant for the life of me understand why straight people would prefer gay people pretend not to be gay...why would YOU want to marry a lesbian pretending to be a straight woman? Why would you want to marry a gay man pretending to be a straight man?

Ultimately you may never know...but if their reality eats them up long enough, what will eventually happen is this: "honey, there's something I have to tell you. Im gay, I always have been, I do love you I just dont LOVE you, and I cant do this anymore"

Yes, I can see now why straight people would want THAT to happen them...oh wait, no...no I dont understand.

Of course, if that conversation never happens...and you die thinking your spouse wasnt gay, even though they were, where's the harm and foul TO YOU. there is none, but your spouse...likely lived a life that wasnt a very good one...and being the good christian you are, you probably dont care about THAT...so long as YOU were none the wiser.

IMO - just let the gays be gay and find each other, and be happy...and let you find a straight person, just like yourself, and never have to wonder - worry - or worse, never know that your spouse never truly loved you...but just didnt want to lose their family, church or community so they faked it all the way to the grave.

People are abusing the collapse function here.

There seem to be many commentators questioning why people would feel so strongly about a verse in Leviticus stating that men having homosexual intercourse is considered a grave sin and abomination when they don't care so much about the verses that restrict our diets and require us to not shave our beards, light fires on the Sabbath, or any number of other commandments in the old testament.

Please understand that the group in question, JONAH, caters to the Orthodox Jewish community. These people are the people of the book, in that Orthodox Jews DON'T eat Shell Fish, nor do they violate the Sabbath, etc... Rabbinical understanding and explanation of the bible(believed to have been passed down orally for generations until transcribed in the Mishnaic texts in 220 CE, with further oral discussions being redacted in the Talmud circa 500 CE) does not do away with any of the biblical commandments we read when looking at the old testament.

So regardless of our personal beliefs, and whether or not we practice / think we should practice everything it says in Leviticus, the people involved in this organization do. It is much harder for someone to be openly gay when they have an entire community and upbringing that attempts, on a daily basis, to live in accordance with the old testament. For many of these people, the option of going to therapy is appealing, and we can't simply disregard the choice because we feel Leviticus is garbage. They can sue, and we can agree or disagree with their suit, but it is important that we at least understand the whole story.

Happy Holidays and peace to all on Earth, Jews, Muslims, Atheists and yes even Christians.

People better be more careful what they post on these comment threads. I'm an IT specialist. Your IP address is easily traced. Comments on public internet threads can be used as evidence against you in a court of law. Be advised.

These guys weren't forced to go there, were they? Just because it "didn't work" (and we all know it doesn't) now they are going to sue? So then everytime a drug addict goes through therapy and doesn't get off drugs, they should sue? We go to a therapist for depression, yet are still depressed we should sue? We go to a doctor and he prescribes something that doesn't cure our ailment, we should sue? I don't normally have a problem with gays at all, and I think they should have rights, but not anymore rights than anyone else and this seems like they think they can sue, because they are still gay. They were foolish to think they could be "cured" in the first place. They took a shot, it failed...move on.

This isn't exactly a great example of the tolerance they constantly proclaim. We Christians view homosexuality as a sin, a sin no different than cussing, porn addiction, etc. etc. We believe that if a Christian with these temptations has them and wants help fighting them to live in accordance with our faith, then conversion therapy or whatever you're calling it is helping a person. If you don't believe as Christians do, fine. That's your right. This therapy should never be forced on anyone but available for those that want it. If you believe it's how you were born, then all this is is a superstition to you...then what harm does it do? If you want it, go for it...if you don't, then don't...don't deny a religion it's right to offer counseling to it's practioners that wish to have it. Gays complain they don't receive tolerance...and in many cases they are right. I don't agree with the lifestyle but hey, it's your life and it's my belief we'll all answer for our choices...who am I to judge? But tolerance is peaceful coexistance between people who disagree. Christian's don't agree with the lifestyle choice and gays don't agree with the Christian lifestyle choice...so let's agree to disagree...because suing to stop Christians from preaching or counseling or calling them intollerant because they disagree is a perfect example of gays being intollerant. Gays can say what they believe...and Christians say what they believe...they don't agree...so what...if you don't agree with the other, then don't listen. Problem solved.

Hi Jessica,

You really had me with the first part of your post. I like the small "l" libertarian view towards humanity. If these four men went voluntarily for therapy because they were unhappy with being homosexuals then both the clinic and the customers exercised their economic free wills. The "cure" in this case that most liberals seem to want is to control yet another aspect of our personal and economic behavior, all the while explaining to us how much freedom they really favor. I've tired of the facetiousness.

You lost me on the rest of your post though. I get your point, but you went from the general view that people should be free to do what they want to themselves without harming others (my impression of your meaning) to the more specific view that people shouldn't behave in particular ways. But what if that man or woman who got married was, at the time, not homosexual? Your view implies that people are born in such a way that they know who they are at all times during their life and, more importantly, cannot change themselves. Such a view poses enormous risks for society. It gives credence to the idea that if we can just identify who you are at an early age then we can force you to become that person later in life. Yikes. So much for self-determination if such a view becomes more prevalent.

Maybe we are too late already?

I state the truth and my comment is collapsed wtf people. Stop abusing it. BTW how do you collapse peoples comments on here and un-collapse them?

All gays, like all atheist's want to push there agenda down everyone's throat. But when someone turns the tables on them and push something down their throats, they wanna whine, bitch and moan like little sissys and kids who don't get there way.

Scott is an obvious liar. There is not 'the blood bank' in Atlanta, a quick internet search will find there are over a dozen (17 in my search) there. If he actually worked at one, he would have said 'a blood bank'.

Later he says 'we take this very seriously at the CDC' and calls the CDC "our agency' Since he claims to work at 'the blood bank' How can he now claim to work at the CDC as well? They cannot be the same as one is Federal and the other would not be.

Nobody who worked at the CDC would engage in such hateful language as Scott used. And nobody who worked at the CDC or at any reputable blood bank would find that gay men do donate blood to be news.

I think we should scan blood donors for bigotry, and defer all those with the bigot gene

As anyone with real knowledge knows all blood donations are tested for HIV now, the old rule Scott the Liar refers to is severely outdated, a knee jerk reaction to give into pubic panic. Before testing it may have been useful, but no more.

Snake no gay man wants to shove any thing down your throat.

As much as you seem to fantacise about it.

Yeah, the double entendre is funny, but the point you make is wrong. People who once were deemed not normal--or worse--have always sought to become accepted by the larger society. Homosexuals are no different. And as an atheist myself I think Snake makes a fair point about atheists in general even as I would hope he'd see me as the exception to the rule.

A manger scene on public lands isn't going to make me, nor do I feel as if it is intended to make me, suddenly accept God and Jesus. I don't know what the athestic equivalent would be, but if one exists it too should be allowed to be on public land. So long as it harms no one why would I care? And today in our country being harmed has risen to an art form.

A hot chick wears an Indian headdress while wearing a bra and panties and American Indians start up a war whoop? Are you serious? A fat mannequin shows up as a display and people freak? We've become a nation on whiners, losers, wimps, and litigators. "My feelings got hurt. Someone needs to fix my boo-boo." I have a different solution. Live your life as you see fit, harm no one else by your actions, quit worrying about what other people think of you, and for pete's sake, STFU already.

Too bad that we are going at break-neck pace in the exactly opposite direction.

SnakeFist - seems like you're able to "whine, bitch and moan" with the best of them.

Almost all mental health is a scam, a high dollar scam.

There are two sides to every coin and they never do share the same side.

Thanks to the catholic church we never will know the truth. their book burning and lust for destroying records and hiding the truth is to blame. they were as bad then as the extreamist in Islam are today, maybe worse.

This does look like a set up by the clients.

And it reeks of a con job by both parties.

Judges love this kind of crap because they can secretly laugh about it, the judgement is basic and pointless, there is no real right or wrong, just a transfer of cash from multiple sources to their bank. nothing matters as long as the judge gets paid, the judge always gets paid regardless. and this is the kind of BS that justifies their big dollar existence and the coexistence of the prosecutor and the defence, all parties are there for the money how much sicker can it get. it boils down to a transfer of wealth nobody is their for a reimbursement they want to make a profit. and sense when is a gay man ashamed or embarrassed to be seen naked by another gay man they are only upset because they were not told to bring their cameras.

So the only thing to do is fine the hell out of everyone involved and throw it out of court, pull the facilities license, and compensate the real victims the tax payers for this BS, if it happens again its prison time.

Its time for people to realize that you cant fix everything, and in the same sense you cant make abnormal look normal, why bother? just accept things for what they really are and move on.

You can't trust anything anymore but you might believe Revelations, this world is so ripe its starting to rot what happens to rotten fruit? God or no God you are still a crop.

I know that there are people making post that are gifted and know everything their is to know about the universe, Time, Dimension's, all other energy and life forms, even the size of the universe and what is beyond that, I am not one of those gifted people so I have to accept things in whatever way I can make sense of, the last thing I am going to do is believe someone who is barking for his own benefit.

Your view implies that people are born in such a way that they know who they are at all times during their life and, more importantly, cannot change themselves. Such a view poses enormous risks for society. It gives credence to the idea that if we can just identify who you are at an early age then we can force you to become that person later in life. Yikes. So much for self-determination if such a view becomes more prevalent.

No, Rich, you're making it far too simplistic. Some behaviors are genetic, others are learned. Jessica was talking about something that is genetic and cannot be changed at its core. You can only do your best to try to ignore it. Many times somebody will do that until they can't any more, and at that point it ruins other people's lives too. Learned behaviors can be changed, even if that is sometimes difficult to do.

Rob80 seems like your one of the freaks who i must offended glad i did enjoy being offended. And the only time i bitch is when i come home and she didn't clean the house. After all house cleaning, cooking and taking care of the kids is the WOMENS job. Us guys work 12 hrs a day for a paycheck and then the wife steals it from us and spends it all, and all women do this they love to steal there men's paychecks. Cause there to lazy to go out and work them selves then come home and clean, cook and take care of the kids cause they want to complain that there feet hurt or this or that hurts and i say bull @!$%# . I work 12 to 15 hrs days and I as a man deserve to come home and sit and relax in a clean house that i'm paying for. You women don't deserve that after your job you need to come home clean the house make dinner for the kids and your boyfriend/husband and then give the kids a bath then put them to bed and you can't sit down yet cause then you have to please us the man. Then after all that you may sit down and relax. Before you all jump down my throat my wife does exactly this its what a wife is supposed to do like a good wife. Glad her parents instilled in her the proper way to be a wife her mom is the same way. That's how a women can be a wife if she is not willing to do this then men you got the wrong women.

The gays and stupid atheists want everyone to accept them and be like them when there the ones who are the freaks of nature and can not accept that how normal people live and they want to turn all of us into the same freaks cause the freak thing is all they know and there minds are to small to learn how to live a normal straight life.

SnakeFist - I'm not gay, but I am an atheist. My wife is pagan, my in-laws are catholic and my mother is protestant. I'm more tolerant than all of them, with the catholics being the least in this case. I don't want (or need) anybody to be exactly the same as me and I'm certainly not what society as a whole would consider a freak, although I don't have any problem with many people you (or many others) might consider to be. However, you do seem to have a problem with people who are different (just by the fact you seem to dislike people who are different and call them 'freaks'), which would make you intolerant, and show a desire for everyone to be the same, no?

Also (and I rarely do this) I did report you since you made insulting comments.

But it was all well and fine to insult me little boy go back to playing video games and leave this to the adults little boy. Your not married you not nothing just a fat kid who loves cake and videogames and can cheat his way thru call of the duty videogame.

SnakeFist - I'm not 'offended' by you. I honestly could not (personally) care what you think. What I feel about you could probably be more aptly described as 'pity'.

However, I do find your views offensive. And, frankly, ridiculous.

Yes, there is a difference in being offended and finding someone to be offensive.

And i find your views highly offensive and i mean highly offensive toward me and everyone else you need to leave this board to the adults and go back to play that call of the duty game.

Sure, snake, you're the adult here. Sure.

Ewwwww Rob you want to feel me get away from me im not gay dude im married to a women and you say your not gay but want to feel me ewwwww get away from me.

rob I'm 46 years old and been married since i was 20 And got 4 boys and 3 girls so you do the math. If you can count that high.

Snake, go cool your heels. Seriously. You only make your side look worse and worse.

After giving the story a little thought it seems like the counselor was doing his own queer act, what purpose would standing around naked in a circle have? all those guys probably already slept with each other so whats the big deal did the counselor want to join in the action? maybe it was set up to be a dating club and it was disguised as therapy. damn you just can't win anymore. the guy should move to San Francisco where people are not so sensitive about their bodies, there he can go nude all he wants he wont need to set up a clinic.

Snake, you seem to really want me to not be married and/or be a little boy. You also seem to be very insistent on telling everybody how manly you are. Should I be worried?

Rob80, Should i be worried that you said in your one post you want to feel me up but sorry to burst your bubble, i'm not gay i dont like gay people but if there gay thats all well and fine just stay away from me. I don't want to catch any diseases from you type of people. Lesbians are good tho there hot as long as there not butch lesbians the hot lesbians with long hair and size 1 bodies are hot and are fine and dandy and are not gay they may munch carpets but thats not being gay. Gay men need to find something else they like other then the Hershey highway.

i dont like gay people

I'm shocked! Shocked, I tell you!

I do believe that both sides are trying to scam each other. So JONAH gets sued for trying to 'fix what's not broken', and these 4 go there in the pretense to get fixed, although they're not broken. A travesty at best, yet, it gets people so riled up that they are hurling threats and insults at each other, and collapse each others' comments. For real? ...and...

People better be more careful what they post on these comment threads. I'm an IT specialist. Your IP address is easily traced. ...

So, what are you going to do, webinator? Send them a virus because they speak their opinion which doesn't coincide with your own?

After giving the story a little thought it seems like the counselor was doing his own queer act, what purpose would standing around naked in a circle have?

Totally agreed... how can a 'straight man' claim to 'cure' homosexuality by getting naked in front of other men, telling them not to have gay sex. Still laughing. But those 4 idiots who signed up for that and now sue aren't any better.

Christian's don't agree with the lifestyle choice and gays don't agree with the Christian lifestyle choice...so let's agree to disagree...because suing to stop Christians from preaching or counseling or calling them intollerant because they disagree is a perfect example of gays being intollerant. Gays can say what they believe...and Christians say what they believe...they don't agree...so what...if you don't agree with the other, then don't listen. Problem solved.

I actually agree with this ... as long as everyone has equal standing and is not hurting anyone, we don't have to LIKE what each other does. My only caveat is children -- I think if an adult wants to committ themselves to this sort of program, that's on them. I don't think it should be done to children.

SnakeFist, don't smear everyone in a demographic - straight, gay, athiest, religious, etc. Never leads to good discussion.

Then why open this subject to open discussion. BTW, you spelled 'atheist' wrong.

Based on the sheer numbers of exclamation points and interrogative marks, I'd say that Scott is not with the CDC either. That and the fact that they said at first that they worked in a blood bank but by the end, it was the CDC. And they have no concept of sentence structure or the use of capital letters to start one off. I also suspect that Patrick was just trying to get a rise out of someone (hey, it worked!!!!!!) because anyone who has donated within the last 30 years knows the restrictions. They will defer you if you take certain medications and not just because of what they do, but because of the disease for which you are being treated. The only one who doesn't mind getting gonorrhea from a heart transplant is Howard Hessman on that episode of House.

As for this lawsuit, throw it out. These gays.... er, guys are just trying to get something for nothing which is why you can't buy a cup of coffee without a disclaimer that it MIGHT be hot. It's COFFEE! Unless you specified iced coffee, it's kind of a no brainer that the crap is going to be hot.

About the religious debate, well, it's all a matter of faith. You either have faith that there is a God and that if you believe, you will enter into His Kingdom, or you have faith that there is nothing after this life but in the end, only one of us can be right. If it's the athiests, then we all just evaporate into nothing, but if the Christians are right, everyone else is in for a mighty rude awakening, aren't they? If you are going to live your life as if there is no God, what will you do when you find out you are wrong?

sotired,

"Then why open this subject to open discussion."

Do you really classify smearing entire groups of people as "discussion"? I think most people would not classify that as "discussion". Name calling, maybe, but discussion, no.

Mickey, if they decide to allow comments on a potentially inflammatory subject, then, yes, it's a discussion. You can't expect the low-lives of us to act like gentlemen. Your argument may be well meant, but it's futile. And censorship has gotten way out of hand, starting with the advent of collapsing comments.

^^^NBCNews has plenty of even more inflammatory articles that are NOT open for discussion, so take an invitation when you get it.

sotired,

"You can't expect the low-lives of us to act like gentlemen. Your argument may be well meant, but it's futile. And censorship has gotten way out of hand, starting with the advent of collapsing comments."

If the low-lives among us just would act like gentlemen, they wouldn't be low-lives anymore now, would they? And it isn't Newsvine that collapses comments. It is the people who post on Newsvine who are responsible for collapsing others' comments. They just click on that little button marked with an exclamation mark at the lower right side of whatever comment they don't like and flag it as being of "No Value" or "Inflammatory". If enough people do that, it eventually gets collapsed or deleted. It's a practice I detest, just like you, and I am hoping that some day Newsvine will remove that button so others cannot get peoples' comments collapsed just because they don't agree with them. I have heard rumors that Newsvine is going to eventually remove that button, but so far they have not done so. So about all we can do is put up with it until such time as they do remove that button. Have a nice day, sotired!

Yeah, thanks for making my point. The 'collapse' function actually works the other way, everyone wants to read what got collapsed, maybe moreso than standard comments.... :)

I don't mind a "report" button, but the fact is most people use it for a "disagree" button. Newsvine makes it easy to AGREE with a comment with a simple up arrow. But they make it hard to DISAGREE with a comment without voting to collapse it ... or actually writing a response. A lot of people don't want to bother to respond, they just want to show agreement or disagreement.

How about it Newsvine ... we've been asking for a down arrow for a long time ... isn't it time?

Beth,

"How about it Newsvine ... we've been asking for a down arrow for a long time ... isn't it time?"

That's a good idea, Beth. I hope they do it.

So many comments about the Bible which is nothing more than rhetorical writing. It must be nice to allow one self to put on blinders and turn off the brain.

The odd thing is that trying to "win" this discussion the bible thumpers always revert to cheap biblical quotes. But the art of persuasion involves presenting an argument that your opponent will accept. Not dredging up trash from the sewer. In order to reach the most readers you'd be much better off leaving the bible where it belongs, in church.

Stop proving your ignorance about life with your slow minded quotes. Be original and think critically. Bible quotes result in one, and only one thing, you turn off anyone that would have otherwise read your comment.

hsart,

"Be original and think critically"

A true believer never thinks and certainly never thinks critically. Doing so is the beginning of a loss of faith. True believers prefer to let others do their thinking for them. It not only saves them the trouble to having to think for themselves, but not thinking represents what faith is all about, i.e. believing what you are told; not thinking. The thinking process is the reserved property of the theologians; not to be messed with by the laity.

I state the truth and my comment is collapsed wtf people.

Where to start? So many words come to mind... asinine, erroneous, inflammatory, puerile, derogatory, vacuous, uninformed, grammatically challenged, etc. I am sure you will collapse me after you spend a few hours with a dictionary.

You should hope you never need a blood transfusion. The blood will be tested for diseases, but you will not know anything about the donor... and that includes sexual orientation.

to thewhitejudge: how many different articles do I have to correct your language? It's they're and not their.

And I keep telling you. I make mistake and get them confused. Who are you to call someone out on simple mistakes?

seriously! that's the gayest thing i've ever heard! one "straight man" gets butt naked to try and convince other homosexuals not to have gay sex? UMMMMM WHAT?

i doubt very much if the therapist is straight...that's just what he tells himself

If a dude willingly gets naked in a room full of homosexuals, you are darn right he is not straight. the christian right is so busy attacking homosexuals they don't see how absurd this all looks. bet they think god told them to do all this too. if there is a god he's probably cracking up and laughing at them right now.

Two things Timothy1Mil: What the hell are you talking about, and go take a remedial english class and try again. My brain nearly suffered a short circut trying to sort out your grammar mistakes when I attempted to comprehend your statements.

And, for the record, homosexuality is being shown to be a genetic predisposition, I.E. people are born that way. It is not a sickness they develop and suddenly become gay, they do not chose it, it is how they are. So if your God has a problem with it, then your God only has himself to blame for it. Of course since you are just a simple human being, how arrogant do you have to be to presume you know what your God thinks?

Timothy1Mil = bigoted, homophobic hate monger

And to blame hiv/aids (based on your 1 in 5 comment) on the gay community is completely absurd. Since the mathematical laws of chaos (which is actually extremely ordered math) someone was going to get it eventually. Just because a bisexual French Canadian man with a serious libido and no ethics got it and brought it to so many is hardly justification for blaming the gay community. And, it's nature's counterbalance to overpopulation. It is AS NECESSARY AS BIRTHS THEMSELVES!

Well, at one time I was a good little democrat and totally endorsed "don't ask, don't tell" and "whatever consenting adults do in their own home is their business."

But all that seems to just encourage the perverts to push for more and more. They gotta have a constant "look at me! I'm Special!" Soon they will insist on exalted status for their "bravery" for announcing their perversions.

Gay marriage is a disgusting joke and now suing a company trying to rescue the poor guys from a degrading life....next "Johnny has two fathers" will be required reading for children and a sit-com without at least one gay will be subject to finger-waggling.

I take it all back, now I'm at keep your "dirty little disgusting practices to yourselves TOTALLY" and even rescind that "Hate crime" crap. Gay men are perverts and should act like it and be ashamed of themselves.

GET BACK IN THE CLOSET....PLEASE!

amazedandalarmed, most people would prefer you take your hatred and get back under your rock...please.

All the current science on gay genetics are on pages 5 & 6. Everything else is opinion

.

"“Despite the consensus of mainstream professional organizations that conversion therapy doesn’t work, this racket continues to scam vulnerable gay men and lesbians out of thousands of dollars and inflicts significant harm on them.”"

....>>>> ".....inflicts significant harm on them.”

STDs are rampant in the gay community for both gay men and lesbians.

Truth is gays are inflicting significant harm on themselves through immoral sex acts and multiple sex partners which are the norm for most gays. They have the highest rates of HIV infections alone for any group.

REMEMBER, DON'T MISS THE TRUTH!

STD's are pretty rampant among heterosexuals too. Heterosexuals engage in some pretty "immoral" sex acts. Heterosexuals have multiple sex partners. Heterosexuals get HIV too.

There's some truth for you.

Truth, HIv has the LOWEST prevalence among lesbians.

Marcus Bachmann, you're next.

It took time but George Orwell's 1984 has arrived. Nbcnews actively invites comments and then decides what should be allowed and secretly removes all comments that it does not agree with.

Is nbcnews attempting to mind control the worlds's population by removing content that it does not agree with and doing it secretly so that the world does not know what it is doing to avoid the label of controlling thought, discourse and free flow of information?

Last night I put up 30 comments, in reply to comments from other commentators. Today I see that all but 3 have been secretly removed. The comments were not deleted or collapsed but removed as were the comments from the people who made their own comments and all references to my comments.

The new left cannot stand on their own assertions. The left must control and destroy all opposition.

We have seen this behaviour in many dictatorships and now we see it on an American based news reporting agency.

Nbcnews over and over again has stated that it controls what is reported and discussed. It does not believe in free speech or that this nation was conceived with a Bill of Rights and a constitution that allows free speech.

DMTH - you seem to be getting your facts from some pretty whackadoodle places.

TRUTH: lesbians have the lowest rate of STD's among ANY GROUP

it's funny but if you really take a look at behaviour - gay men and straight men behave very similiarly (if we are going into generalizations)

yes, the stereotype is sorta true about gay men - they do have a lot of sexual partners, but so too do straight men - in fact, if you believe all the movies - it's a badge of honor to bang as many women as possible.

truth is, straight men are the #1 purchasers of prostitutes services...sticking dollar bills in strippers bra's, and ultimately leading the way in rape.

so when you talk about the immoral behaviour of people, no need to differentiate between gay and straight men - they both hold up their ends of immoral sexual behaviour QUITE WELL.

the thing is, there are SIGNIFICANTLY more straight men in this world than gay men.

gays make up less than 10% of the population...

so to rail on about the immorality of gay men, while ignoring the very prevelant immorality of straight men - is hyprocrisy at it's finest.

lesbians though, we're doing alright...if you one believed in GOD, you'd almost have to think GOD favors the lesbo's...

today - cut the paranoia, every news site does the same thing...including fox news.

get over yourself, perhaps the reality is all your comments were equally as lame (and lack any substance) just like the one you just posted.

i bet posts of mine have been deleted...but unlike you, I just dont care.

Why? because im not so wrapped up in my own EGO that the thought of some news organization like NBC deleting my comments drives me to anger.

dear GOD, how will the world survive without all todayopinion's wisdom? im sure, somehow...we'll manage.

Jessica-1170252 You are one of the sheep who likes being herded around and told what you can see, read and understand. Fox news does not remove comments. Instead of demeaning our rights in the U.S. and betraying the 200 years of the U.S. defending your right to free speech and access to free ideas and ideals, you should be standing besides me, complaining that your rights are being violated.

Jessica-1170252 You sound more like a stooge for nbcnews rather than a commentator who is willing to buck the news organizations who deliberately stage events and put false articles to sway opinion instead of helping you with free flow of unfiltered news and information so that you can develop free thought and come to your own intelligent conclusions. Of course if you want to live in a society that does not allow free speech and thought, that represses these guarantees then there are a number of countries you can move your residence to.

Jessica-1170252 As a lesbian you should celebrate the fact that you live in a relatively free society where you are allowed to come out of the closet and have rights. In most parts of the world you would have to hide your sexuality for fear of persecution and/or death. Most jobs, advancements, rights would be denied to you. The fact that the U.S. accepts people who are lesbians is because of the open discussion and laws that protect you. Hiding and interfering with free discourse, freedom of speech, ideas and ideals would be a severe detriment to you. Yet you mock the Bill of Rights, Constitution and government of the U.S. that has allowed you to be treated as an equal.

The same Bill of Rights, Constitution and guarantees has to be extended to every one, everywhere and that includes sites like this that actively promotes comments. It does it not to comply with the constitution but to get commentators and readers to earn money as most if not all Internet sites are monitored for readership in order to get payment from the advertisers based on the number of people who look and read. In the end it is two fold earn money yet push their agenda.

Brilliant~ : )

todayopinion - so in that case you agree that Jessica should be allowed to marry another woman then?

By the way, I've heard of many people who have been removed from Fox's comments sections totally, or had their comments removed.

One cannot allow oneself to be swayed by hearsay. One has to know. I like fox due to the vast variety of stories they carry. Literary there must be 5 times the amount of stories that are on nbcnews. I also find that there is not the radical political thought and designs that are on nbcnews.

I even read bbc as it is truly unbiased and gives straight information untouched by bias.

You know as well as I do that it was never nature's intent to allow marriage between lesbians or marriage between homosexuals. However the liberals want to create issues to stir up the populace to show they are very emancipated in their ideas.

I am in favor of abortion, the pill, dilution of the power of the Catholic Church, the modernization of the Koran, removal of the hideous punishments doled out by Arab nations, that the rich should pay more percentage wise than normal people. Why kill incentives? Make them a model to emulate so that other people strive to get what they have and pave the way with laws to do just that.

Obummer is setting out to dumb down America and chastise the people who know how to make money and spread it around.

Everyone in the U.S. use the same federal highways, should pay their representatives and should know what America stands for. Dumbing down America and spreading the wealth around to people who don't earn it is contrary to human nature.

Obummer should not be opening up new markets for American jobs abroad. If you listened to his speech today, you never heard one word about cutting spending. "RAISE TAXES!" Well the problem has not been taxes but the unwise use of the money. Stop the Afghanistan war today. Stop the waste of money and lives. The U.S. does not need 11 aircraft carriers!

Let Europe, Japan, South Korea and Australia pick up the tabs for protecting and monitoring their zones.

The idea that the U.S. has to buy power in Israel and Egypt is ridiculous. Stop foreign aid.

Get the other countries to pick up the tab and pay for U.S. help.

Cut the unions out completely. The U.S. government published studies have demonstrated that after 10 years the take home pay of union and non union people is the same. Why fatten the union pockets? Obummer has thrown the unions 3 billion dollar in subsidies. Use that money too to reduce the deficit.

This is right off the CDC (Center for Disease Control) website:

"Gay, bisexual, and other men who have sex with men (MSM)¹ represent approximately
2% of the US population, yet are the population most severely affected by HIV.
In 2009, MSM accounted for 61% of all new HIV infections, and MSM with a history
of injection drug use (MSM-IDU) accounted for an additional 3% of new
infections."

>>>>>Are you reading that: Gay, Bisexual, and other men who have sex with men (MSM) are 2% of the American population. And, MSM account for 61% of all new HIV infections with 3% in addition for MSM who inject drugs.

>>>>>THAT IS MSM REPRESENT 64% OF ALL NEW HIV INFECTIONS FOR 2% OF THE U.S. POPULATION!!!

Futhermore the CDC say on the same web page:

>>>>>>>*MSM represents a whopping "79% of infections among all newly infected men. Compared with other groups, MSM accounted for the largest numbers of new HIV infections in 2009."

NOW, you liberals want the rest of us Americans to celebrate homosexuals and their behaviors and turn off our brains in the face of these hard cold facts?!!!

COME ON NOW, DON'T MISS THE TRUTH!

It's nothing more than a scam to make a buck. Notice it's founder is a Wall Street Exec.

To note. California didn't ban the practice. They didn't even ban it for minors. What they did was state that state-licensed therapist couldn't perform this therapy on minors. They made somewhat of a useless law that doesn't really do much good. Minors can still undergo such procedures if they're called a religious practice and not done by a state-licensed therapist and adults can undergo such procedures without any sort of restrictions. The law would have been far more effective if it gave minors more rights to make decisions.

Then if a minor wants to go through such things, they have that choice. But, if a minor doesn't want to go through it, they can't be forced by their parents to do it in a religious institution.

People have paid money forever to get answers or help for alot of things. People have gone to fortune tellers, psychics like John Edwards, James Von Praah, The Long Island Medium Theresa Caputo and others. People have gone to faith healers like Peter Popoff. Some have helped people to understand and sort out things and some have driven people away, but should there be a lawsuit against these people? I think each person has to sort out if it works for them or not. Could a young person whose mind is sorting through identify be programed into thinking they are gay? Sure they could, and have people who have sorted out their feelings through therapy been helped to understand that they arn't gay. Maybe they found out that it was brought on by being surrounded by gay family or gay friends. So I see nothing wrong with people with issues of why they are the way they are going to get therapy.

Michael - i dont see anything wrong with the therapy either, scams are scams...why determine this specific one is less legit than Gypsy Fortune Tellers?

Whats funny about your post, is that you take the actual reality - gay kids being raised in all straight environements (straight parents, family, friends) and being told daily he should be straight, thats just what everyone is, their church tells them "you're only normal if your straight" but deep down, he knows he's gay...and therapy is the only thing thats going to help him get out of that mind warp of convincing him he's straight when he's really not.

That reality exists, a lot.

but your inverse reality....im not saying it's never happened, but seriously...highly unlikely. not impossible, nothing is impossible...but how many kids do you know are growing up in all gay environments, and are straight as can be to the core...but because of all the peer pressure and hatred towards straights, is grappling with his TRUE straight sexual identity?

Obviously, you dont see anything wrong with a poor straight kind, being mind warped by evil gays, finding his true path.

So, i have to assume you find nothing wrong with poor gay kids, being mind warped by evil straights, finding his true path too...

but seriously, which reality do you think is more prevelant?

The one I KNOW exists (because I experienced it)...or the one you THINK exists?

Doggy,

"This law will ensure that state-licensed therapists can no longer abuse their power to harm LGBT youth and propagate the dangerous and deadly lie that sexual orientation is an illness or disorder that can be 'cured,'" said Orr's organization, which describes itself as the largest statewide advocacy group in California working for "full equality" for lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgender people."

All we can do is control those with a license, those that decide to go to some religious quack are no better than the quack offering smoke and mirrors. You can only do so much for stupid. Let the buyer beware!

Homosexuality appears in many, many different mammals, not just humans....perhaps it does have a purpose: population control. People are born homosexual, they don't become homosexual. These conversion therapists need to go the way of the snake oil salesmen.....

David, that is incorrect on so many levels. Human beings are naturally how they are born wether it be gay or straight. Our species will never be extinct due to homosexuality. Do the math please.

These people are no better than, Life Springers or that Erhart guy and his ridiculous seminars. It's quackery.

They are taking advantage people who most likely have been shunned and shamed by their families and are desperate to be accepted back.

I hope they when their case it will validate them and give them strength. Many times this ends in suicide.

I salute their courage and hope they find peace with being okay with who they are.

Humans are no more naturally heterosexual than they are monogamist.

As far as "does it work": if you went to a "therapist" who "treated" you for your heterosexuality, do you think you could be "cured" into liking the same sex? If you want a case study, just look up David Reimer.

um, yeah.... a lot of mammals like to eat the feces of other animals (dogs love cat poop), a lot of mammals like to eat and kill people as well.

I supposed you'd have a lot of compassion for humans who displayed those animal traits as well.

Animals breed with their close relatives as well, so we can't use the "it's not natural" out on brothers and sisters getting down.

Hey , we're just animals, so anything goes. Animals to be sure.......

Lets assume for the moment that being "gay" is genetic, or at least highly influenced by genetic factors. (I personally think it more often than not has way more to do with psychological / sociological issues, but...)/ Well - even if thats true - there are plenty of genetic disorders like Cerebal Palsy, Down SYndrome, Cystic Fibrosis, etc. Do we call these normal? No - they are abnormalities and we have whole array of medical experts out there looking for cures. SO - I guess - this is a value judgement - is it a left handed vs right-handed abnormality or something more resembling a genetic medical disorder. No matter what you decide for yourselves, an individual person gets to make that value judgement for themselves. If they want to be straight then its their right to go get treatment. Its not for you to say, or for you to close down the facilities who offer potential treatments simply becuase you disagree with their value judgements.

RHD,

Well, considering that killing and eating humans is HARMFUL to other humans, than no, I feel safe assuming that we wouldn't be okay with that.

What two people do in the privacy of their bedroom is none of my business. Why do you think it's any of yours?

mixedpie

Humans are no more naturally heterosexual than they are monogamist.

Mixed Up

By definition Humans are heterosexual or we wouldn't be here, do the science about "in's and outies."

There is a mutant strain in all biological things, homosexuals are just that. It does go away all by itself since it cannot replicate.

Bill,

Than why hasn't it "gone away"? 40,000 years later, we've still got gay people. Shouldn't they have died out after you know, the first couple since they can't reproduce?

David: Let's say, then, that homosexuality is a disorder, akin to drug addiction (it's not, but I'll play along). If four addicts sued a rehab clinic because their "treatment" consisted of a counselor doing lines of coke off their chests while verbally berating them for being weak-minded, would you call that buyer's regret? No - that's abuse, fraud, and false advertising.

There is no evidence that stands up to scientific scrutiny that conversion therapy is at all effective. It's quackery.

David- if by some crazy happenstance, EVERYONE in the world turned gay RIGHT NOW, we still wouldn't die out. At this point, we have all the technology necessary to keep the species going (and probably at a much more sustainable rate). As that will NEVER happen, I don't think you have to worry about the people who ARE gay being gay.

David--you conflate "abnormal" with "broken." Abnormal, in a strictly statistical context, simply means outside the range usual, common, or normal occurence. It is not a value statement. It is possible for something to be "abnormal" but still completely healthy, acceptable, and not in need of correction. It may be "abnormal" for a dog to be friendly with a cat, but that does not mean the dog is broken or needs to be taught to chase cats.

So even though homosexuality may, in a strictly statistical sense, not represent "normal" behavior, you have not yet shown how it is unhealthy, harmful, or detrimental to either individuals or society for people to be oriented that way. There is nothing "broken" about it. Gays and lesbians can lead lives that are, for all other measures, intents, and purposes, happy, fulfilling, full lives (with, of course, the exception of harassment by anti-gay bigots, but we can hardly blame gays for that).

um, yeah..... Homosexuality does not appear in the animal kingdom except in humans. Homosexual acts are common in the animal kingdom. That is an important part. Show me one article that says homosexuality is common in the animal kingdom. Making off handed comments that are completely false to buttress an assertion you have is wrong.

Todayopinion, You don't have to prove how stupid you are.

dave-sunny so.cal You are proving how stupid you are. There is no homosexuality in the animal kingdom except in humans. I doubt you know the difference between the terms homosexuality and homosexual acts in the animal kingdom.

Homosexual acts are common in heterosexuals. However the heterosexual who indulges in homosexual acts is not a heterosexual. Child often indulge in homosexual play but are heterosexual. Many heterosexuals are curious about homosexuality, may indulge in infrequent homosexual behaviour to find out what it means but are still heterosexual.

You sir are ignorant, uneducated and worse insulting as to your ability to not be able think rationally.

Correction: However the heterosexual who indulges in homosexual acts is not a heterosexual. should read the following: However the heterosexual who indulges in homosexual acts is not a homosexual.

Oh well, I guess you do. You know a lot about that huh? What else are you going to deny? Ignorance is bliss. I guess you don't read much.

If it is fixing something that isn't broken, does that mean transgender surgery is also trying to fix something that isn't broken? After all, in both cases the parties entered voluntarily to change something related to their sexuality.

dave-sunny so.cal Yes I do know a lot about what I comment on. Unlike you, I don't shoot from the hip with inane and ridiculous comments to try and prove a point with false statements and lies.

You haven't proved that there is homosexuality in the animal kingdom. YOU made that statement. YOU have to prove that statement. YOU can't. Just repeating the same lie over and over again doesn't make it true. It only makes you a bigger liar and demonstrates that you are incapable of thought and research. You are unable to stretch your mind around the concepts of homosexuality and homosexual acts and how they are different. You should know about ignorance being blissful.

You are in a state of total bliss from the first word you typed.

For Bill. Not all humans have to be heterosexual in order to procreate a species. You only need enough to outdo the death rate. Homosexuality with regards to survival is similar to the grandparent effect. Grandparents no longer produce offspring but still contribute to the survival of the species by improving the odds of offspring surviving. Similarly homosexual individuals contribute to group survival by taking care of young, protecting them, providing for them but don't drain as many resources by producing offspring of their own. There are many instances of individuals in a group sacrificing self procreation for improved survival. You can look at ant colonies for some good examples.

Secondly, sex has never been solely about procreation. It's also been a form of bonding for many mammalian species. Take Bonobos for example. Sex and sexual acts are used for conflict resolution, greetings (hand shakes have a whole different meaning for them), bonding.

Finally, for others here. You need to stop thinking of homosexuality/heterosexuality as a binary function. There is a spectrum of sexuality ranging from purely homosexual to purely heterosexual. You see examples of this spectrum with bisexual individuals. Some of which end up participating solely in either homo- or heterosexual acts and even shift behavior at certain times in their life.

I stated my opinion, like you did, did you PROVE anything? Other than that denial thing?

For "todaysopinon". First off the definition of "Animal Kingdom" n. A main classification of living organisms that includes all animals.
Now the following rebuttal from 2006:
Homosexuality is quite common in the animal kingdom, especially among herding animals. Many animals solve conflicts by practicing same gender sex.
From the middle of October until next summer the Norwegian Natural History Museum of the University of Oslo will host the first exhibition that focuses on homosexuality in the animal kingdom.

I am only posting one snippet from one article as an example. There are literally hundreds of articles out there, from extremely reputable scientific journals, studies, etc that back up the above paragraph. There is the proof you were requesting.

's all good You are confusing homosexual behaviour with homosexuality. Show me one article that mammals besides man indulge in homosexuality.

ProgressiveforAmerica that is not a rebuttal without a source. That statement was not from a scientist that was from the person who organized the exhibit. He has absolutely no credentials that allows him to make that statement. He is a lay person, not a scientist, not a zoologist, he is nothing.

Homosexuality recorded in 1600 animal species according to national geographic. In rates between 2.6 and 7.8%. the rates tend to go up where overpopulation is prevalent or where small packs lack enough females. It's population control Todayopinion. Go crawl back under your rock or travel with us through Plato's cave and stop watching the shadows.

dave-sunny so.cal You did not say that your statement was an opinion. You stated the statement as a fact without doing any research. Why should I do your work for you as you are too lazy to do a 10 minute search. I have many years experience in biology and read extensively scientific articles which probably are too technical for you to understand.

Do the searches and educate yourself. You are putting yourself in a corner by changing your utterances.

Patrick93 Again a statement without a source is worthless. Again, I repeat that homosexual acts are common in the animal kingdom. You have to site the article and the author. Then I will research the credentials of the author and the article. I have done extensive research into the subject and I have found no scientific articles that state that there is any proven homosexuality in animal species. You do know the difference between homosexuaity and homosexual acts don't you?

Today, having completed my master's thesis in quantum computation, try me instead. And where did you get your education, UC Berkley?

Where is YOUR source, opinion? I think you're sitting on it. But tell more stories, this is entertaining.

Patrick93 It is not population control. You know not what you are writing about. A long time ago a professor of English who was teaching a course on debate said that when an opponent resorts to threats, name calling and obnoxious behaviour, he has lost the debate as he lacks material to discuss or rebut the argument presented.

The person is unprepared, lacking intelligence and information.

You only prove what my English professor stated. If we were debating, you would have been declared the loser from the first statement you wrote.

dave-sunny so.cal You have my source. The Internet. You are just demonstrating that you are too lazy to do some research.

Today, I assume you mean there is no evidence of same-gender pair bonding. Exhibit A: 4 different penguin species. Exhibit B: zebra finches. I'll let you find more. Some researcher... http://www.sciencedirect(dot)com/science/article/pii/S0169534709001542

http://link.springer(dot)com/article/10.1023%2FA%3A1014023000117?LI=true#

Today, I merely question your supposed great education. To build yourself up on credentials is no better than appeal to authority when you give no substance. You would have lost the debate long before me.

Patrick93 You do not have a degree in biology and you did not provide the source of your called statement on homosexuality in animals. I can not make statements on quantum computation. You don't have the education in biology, degrees in any field remotely related to human homosexuality, zoology or biology that allows you to make definitive statements on animal homosexuality or animal homosexual acts.

I did, I gave you the link to the national geographic article.

-scratch that, forgot to remove the "." and replace with (dot) one moment.

Patrick93 Your obvious arrogance and frustration and laziness to do a few minutes of research on the Internet demonstrate that you are not qualified to comment. Every thing I have said is on the Internet. If you are unqualified, unintelligent, unable or not wanting to do the few minutes of research, then just come out and just say it.

Here's a likely more "credible" source for you. http://www.news-medical(dot)net/news/2006/10/23/20718.aspx

I'm not citing it, but the wikipedia list has been expanded to over 1600, and following the sources listed brings up quite a bit of counterevidence to your theory today.

Today, did you honestly just say that given your lack of providing sources while expecting us to believe you based on nothing more than your word of having a degree in biology? Hypocrisy has such a rotten odor.

Patrick93 No you did not give a link to the article or the author's name. Again creating lies is just that. LIES. National geographic rarely publishes scientific articles. It reports on items. That is why I want the name of the author. If he is a wildlife reporter passing on third hand information, the article is worthless.

Patrick93 Why should I help you do your research? I told you where to look and what topics to look for. Again you have proven yourself to be lazy, argumentative, a liar, and insulting.

The article is only worthless if you don't bother to check further in and get the original source. That said, it can be difficult to get your hands on published papers when most of it is kept in scientific journals and isn't available online. If you bother to backtrack, today, we learn you have been full of it from the start. And I also mentioned I probably forgot to remove the "." because this website doesn't let you post bare links.

Patrick93 (dot)net/news/2006/10/23/20718.aspx does not exist. If you refer to (dot) as .

Though I wish I could find a complete online publication, this book alone refutes what you've claimed Today.

Biological
Exuberance: Animal Homosexuality and Natural Diversity

Author: Bruce
Bagemihl

@All Good so does polygamy and incest, for that matter.

Today, I said you have made claims without substantiating yourself whereas you expect us all to so so (as I have done. and try again, the link works. copy/past the entire line into your url box, then remove the (dot) and replace with "." You probably added a space by accident.

Patic93 I doubt sincerely that you have studied at any university much less received a degree.

Petter Boeckman, who is the academic advisor for the "Against Nature's Order?" exhibition. The author of the Norweigan Article and Petter Boeckman have been discredited. Petter Bockman who is an academic advisor has no degees in biology and has not published one scientific article. He does not know the difference between homosexual behaiour in animals and homosexuality in animals. And I believe neither do you. You do not know how to read documents.

It's on the internet! Case closed! Thank you for playing.

Today, homosexual acts are merely the sex acts and other affectionate actions between two of the same sex. Homosexuality is the disposition and attraction to a member of the same sex. Is that not correct? Also, MIT graduate working in Canada on the D-Wave IDE for quantum computation. I could tell you more about biological processes than you'd care to know if I dived back into my E&M and Quantum Mechanics notebooks. Chemistry wouldn't work without these concepts, and therefore neither would biology. You are still a child the way you berate everyone when you provide no substance yourself. And my apologies not knowing an old book had been discredited. Trivial information like that gets lost when you do searches. My point still stands, however. You have yet to provide one even slightly credible source about homosexuality not existing in the animal kingdom.

"It's on the internet! Case closed! Thank you for playing."

Oh, well in that case, it MUST be true. Why didn't you tell us before?

todays opinion You seem like a very intelligent guy. Not that i agree with everything you say but how to you respond to someone who has had to pick gay as a orientation because society demands. I defiantly agree that there are differences in homosexual acts and homosexuals. However it is my belief that there are only sex act nothing more nothing. Concepts of love are another ridicules notion nothing but chemical response to stimuli.

No kidding, sense it can eventually lead right to it.

"doctor"- You do know that people have won cases in which no guns were involved, right? There are other crimes than armed robbery. Like fraud, for instance.

If you read the article, you would know that they went in their late teens. If I had to bet, I'd say their PARENTS or guardians made them go through with this. It was likely against their will. Now I could be wrong, but I doubt it.

A lot of times, when kids are made to go through "anti gay therapy" or "reparative therapy", they will simply put on an act in front of their families and friends, to convince them that it has "cured" them, while they have simply forced themselves back into the closet until they can get away. They LIE to protect their identity, and I don't blame them.

.... Homosexuality is a choice & perversion

Just like being left handed and having blue eyes I guess.

Imbecile.

Hate to tell you, but those guys were probably straight in the first place. Or bisexual leaning straight. Or had a dream about a guy once and assumed they were gay.

Do you think you could be turned gay?

He already is. These are the only stories he likes.

WilliamOfRites If there is an imbecile on this channel it is you. Nature is always experimenting with its creations. The blue eyes genetic experiment was established in the northern hemisphere in order to allow more light into the eyeball and brain during the long winter nights in order to aid vision.

Left handedness is a genetic modification caused by nature to experiment with the options of using one hand over another. The first and most important option was in fighting/war where a left handed opponent had a benefit over a right handed opponent as the right handed opponent only knew how to fight right handed opponent and was surprised by an unorthodox attack by a left handed person. Second was using a left hand in normal life, where a niche was available for a left handed person that the right handed person could not take advantage of. Such as reaching around an object/tree/bush that only had an opening that a left handed person could take advantage of.

Both blue eyes and left handedness were genetic modifcations/experiments that succeeded due to the fact that the conditions allow mankind to "BENEFIT" from those genetic experiments. Homosexuality does not benefit humanity.

I refer you to the great people in history who were homosexuals and could not pass on their genes to their children.

All their genius was lost.

Nature abhors a vacuum and detests the use of its resources on any animal in the animal kingdom that can not reproduce.

That trying funny to pass opinion as science.

Can they "cure" dyslexia too?

dave-sunny so.cal You have demonstrated that you are unable to do any research. Don't have a search engine on your computer? I spent 8 years studying biology and two of my favourite classes were genetics and eugenics. What courses on biology have you studied?

I see you are too lazy to do Internet searches. Here are three hints. (Sorry folks that I have to bore you with educating such a lazy, probably homosexual person) First get a search engine. Two type in why did nature produce in people blue eyes. There type in why did nature create people with left handedness and report back with the results of your searches.

If you do not report back with the results of the searches you are demonstrating your inability to do searches and your reluctance to answer me with facts.

Science says quite clearly what I wrote. Your statements are pure lies.

dave-sunny so.cal Yes trained professionals can cure dyslexia. Are you claiming that you have dyslexia and thus using that as a crutch for not doing searches?

My cousin has a ms and phd in aiding people overcome dyslexia. She is 65 and is working for the Paterson, NJ school system discovering and training people to overcome dyslexia. She has worked with executives in major industries who pay her thousands of dollars for private one on one sessions to learn to read correctly.

Again just type in "How to learn to overcome dyslexia" or type in professionals who can assist you to over come dyslexia.

BTW my cousin spent 12 years and $$$ to get her degrees and is highly successful in her chosen profession. You can call up many colleges that offer classes and degrees in dyslexia reprogamming.

You want to call Harvard, Yale, Princeton, New York University, frauds for offering these graduate classes and courses?

That is funny "act smart" some more.

It's not a cure, it's a workaround. Having gone through dyslexia therapy, it is not a cure. Everything is still a jumble of letters when looking at it, but I can do the math and switch things around in my head. Today for your 8 years you sure didn't learn much about human decency.

"I'm Elmer J. Fudd millionaire, I own a mansion and a yacht"

Credits to warner bros.

Todayopinion-

Here is one giant flaw in your argument. You say that Homosexuality inherintly denies genetic procreation. About 12000 years ago, I would agree with you that genetic procreation would be the highest legacy anyone can leave the human race. But since then, we have developed literature, art, science, technology, Heck..basically Human Society. And sometimes that part of an individual that is Homosexual cannot be so easily taken away from what made them what they are (or were). So in effect, had Oscar Wilde not been gay, he may have had children, but then again, we would probably not have his wonderful works of literature. Or Alan Turning, the father of computer science. Without him, Computers may have been generations ahead of us (and, interestingly enough, may have lost WW2). So, bascially a value in what a individual leaves for society is not neccesarily in if and how many children they have, but more what they added to our culture and our society!

Let us not forget galileo, einstein, plato (supposed), and michaelangelo.

Yes trained professionals can cure dyslexia

You just outed yourself as a supreme BSer. Dyslexia cannot be "cured".

However, pathological lying can be treated. Check out a therapist.

Todayopinion -

I suggest you learn to research. Homosexuals actually have a reproductive advantage, and a strong social value. Oddly enough it's the people who hate and condemn homosexuals that are most likely to benefit. Being childless but productive allows them to contribute greater resources to the children of siblings, which then gives their siblings (who share a similar genetic quality) a great advantage over others. This allows the homosexuals to pass along genes even if they do not reproduce themselves.

This same benefit is transferred to society as a whole, as homosexuals create the perfect pair for adoptions. Push comes to shove, and of course, the reproductive organs of homosexual people still work (unlike someone who is born sterile), so if push comes to shove a homosexual person can have children, the mating would just be very unpleasant to them.

WashVance It is ignorance you are spouting. Throughout history, the most intelligent men mated with the most intelligent women and produced a superior human being which continued the chain. From your comments I see that you have not studied this behaviour nor have you given it much thought. You are shooting from the hip and not making any sense.

And of course you have not read carefully my writings. I have said that their genius has not been passed down (biologically) to future generations. You and many others are incapable of understanding why man has genes, DNA and why humans have advanced over the last 12,000 years. It is not because of homosexuals. If all mankind suddenly became homosexuals. The human race would die out in less than 100 years.

It is the mating of superior individuals that produce superior individuals that create the intelligent people who can promote and better the future human race. Taking individuals who are homosexuals and say that they gave more to society than heterosexuals is ridiculous. For every homosexual there are 49 heterosexuals. And those heterosexuals are the ones that produce the improved gene pool that will provide (hopefully) mankind with a method to exist on earth. The dead homosexuals lost their ability to donate to the gene pool. They may have donated to mankind some betterment, but the genetic material that they had is irretrievably lost.

mixedpie It doesn't work that way. In fact it is the opposite. Study! Homosexuals for the most part hide in the closet. They don't want to come out and be different. They hide their homosexuality and until recently they have not wanted it known.

Your writings are nonsense and contradictory. Homosexuals have no reproductive advantage. That is an oxymoron. Stating that a homosexual has a reproductive advantage when they cannot reproduce is an extremely stupid statement. That being homosexual means that they improve the gene pool is blatant corrupt thinking.

I have known, lived with and associated with many homosexuals and through my education and natural abilities, I have developed a heighten ability to listen to people not only what they say and how they say it.

I know how to distinguish between the homosexual female and the homosexual male. I studied carefully their roles and their behaviour with non homosexuals.

You are not stating the case for all or even most homosexuals. You are stating opinions. You are aware that due to the risky lifestyle the U.S. government statistics clearly state that homosexuals have a much decreased life. Any advantage they might have had being a homosexual for any reason or purpose has been taken away from them. I have seen two homosexual friends die from aids related diseases and they were young.

Today, that only works when intelligent people reproduce in numbers greater than those who are: religious zealots (yeah good luck beating the catholics, evangelicals, and islamists), trailer park trash (not all in trailer parks are, but a good amount), ghetto gangstas (seriously, they have no pride in their african roots), and racial supremacists. You're highly outnumbered and highly outreproduced. Idiocracy or war on stupidity will come to pass. And homosexuals have contributed plenty. Isaac Newton and Galileo as well as Einstein. Without them physics would be almost nowhere.

Patrick93 Wrong again. Einstein was married twice and was a notorious womanizer.

Better go back to school and get an education on how to do research on the Internet. I remember from my readings of Einstein that at least one wife fought bitterly with Einstein as he would sleep in his laboratory instead of coming to her bed. The tales of his womanizing are legendary.

Definitely you are lacking in so many studies, you disprove that you ever attended a school of higher learning. If you did not learn to overcome your dyslexia problem, you probably did not find a professional who was able to help you. It is similar to finding the right doctor for a problem. You have to try and try again until you can find the right one.

My cousin was so famous for her abilities to help people with dyslexia that she had a waiting list for months ahead. The next person you try for your dyslexia, get a list of people that person has helped and call them up for references.

Having Einstein's biography would help you, twit. Also, I said I found a workaround for my dyslexia. I have yet to make a typo today.

Patrick93 Get help for your mental, moral and dyslexia. You are spouting nonsense. First go back to school and get your high school degree. Then try attending some classes at a university.

You are also wrong about Galileo. It seems Galileo was NOT married, but did have a mistress called Marina Gamba from Venice, by whom he had a son and two daughters.

He enjoyed sex with a woman so much he had three children by her. YOU DO NEED HELP READING!

Patric93 I warned you about insulting people. You are frustrated with your inability to site references and look up information. You may not have made a typo but you can't do researches read the information and read what I print.

It is matter of public record that Einstein had two wives and was a notorious womanizer. As you can not or do not wish to put the name of the book and its author on the line, I cannot believe a word you say.

I can verify the information I have in my library, my memory and the Internet.

today, I cited 4 references at least. You never gave one. Anyone who looks back on these exchanges will see you were clearly a self-appointed judge. Also, the history channel and personal accounts would have us see Galileo did in fact have homosexual tendencies. Also, the term mistress had a different meaning back then. She was his scribe for pete's sake. Just look in his mathematics and astronomy books. She signs as the writer. Diologue Concerning the Two Chief World Systems, which happens to be a text I have on hand, is in fact signed by Marina Gamba as the dictated scribe.

Patric93 The World Federation of Neurologists defined dyslexia as "a disorder in children who, despite conventional classroom experience, fail to attain the language skills of reading, writing, and spelling commensurate with their intellectual abilities."

I agree you are behaving like a child and you definitely lack skills in reading. Also you lack skills in understanding people, communication and doing basic searches on the Internet.

I have worked with children who are severely frustrated in schools due to their inability to read and understand. This is primarily caused by the teachers passing them on to the next grade when they don't have the ability to do the work. As the rest of the class passes them by, they exhibit, hostility, frustration and abusing authority.

You exhibit all the signs. A person with a college degree should be able to have confidence in himself and express himself well without resorting to insults.

Patrick93 The Norweigan example was authored by Petter Brock who was the lead exhibitor. The article is not scientific and I stated that somewhere else.

There has been no more references for your ridiculous statements. And you have failed to do researches.

Take your marbles and go home and cry on your mommy's skirt.

I did express myself with confidence. And I did basic searches and returned citations to you. And what have you written that I misconstrued? And I'm hostile to dogmatic people who have 0 tolerance for outside ideas, especially when presented counterevidence, which you have exhibited today.

Broeck was not my only citation. Or were you too busy typing away instead of reading? I have no need to cry on my dead mother's skirt. I'm perfectly capable of crying on my own skirt...shirt...thing.

Nice redundant use of "and" in your sentence. Care to take basic grammar again, since you clearly weren't using it for rhetorical effect?

Patric93 You make me laugh. Judge???? The articles and books that are clearly stated on the Internet are put there by me????? You do need more help than I can give you.

Now you go from saying that Galileo was gay to some sorry tv program that has absolutely no value in a discussion to saying that Galileo had homosexual tendencies. It will be a sad day when I rely on a no name tv program to verify anything.

Did you research the program's credits and information? Did you look up the director and programmer of the program? What sources did they use? Go back to school and learn how to debate and really authenticate your statements. You sound like a loser who is desperately trying to hold onto some ridiculous non scientific scraps of information you have cobbled together to feed your insecurities.

Today, history channel would be out of a job very fast if they didn't tell the truth (albeit they do sometimes exaggerate, but that's the entertainment business). And it happens I did validate those sources a long time ago when writing an essay on gay rights in the 8th grade. And I'm sorry if you'd like to argue homosexuality not being part of bisexuality, but there is no argument to be had. Galileo was attracted to both genders. There are numerous accounts. And you have no cited anything! Even if my citations had some flaws, you have yet to cite anything! And I didn't say you put the books and sites up. I'm saying I gave you citations of sources. Now I wonder if you have dyslexia. You're also being highly combative.

Todayopinion -

I have considerably more background on the topic, and on all of the things you're spouting. My degree is in Anthropology, what's yours? Yes, degrees on the internet are mostly meaningless because I have no way to prove it, but you're really spouting just a very rudimentary understanding of evolutionary principles, like a high schooler who just took a biology class.

1st - The "most intelligent" men and women did not reproduce with each other. Some of the smarter people, maybe, some with the bigger brains, yeah, we can see that through the fossil record. But that's not the only trait. Neanderthals, for example, have bigger brain space in their skulls, and still died out (with some probably intermixing with humans, but not terribly much and only in Europe), and other things are more important. But mate quality goes beyond just intelligence, and sometimes other factors trump it.

2nd - Reproduction via siblings is definitely a reproductive strategy and it has been employed by many species.

3rd - If every human became magically homosexual (which wouldn't happen) we could still survive because homosexuals aren't infertile. And if somehow evolution pushed us to all be homosexuals, there is one species of lizard that is entirely composed of lesbians. There are no males. The females impregnate themselves, but still have to have sex with another female to do it.

4th - Homosexuality is likely not genetic, but still inborn. One of my favorite ideas is "maternal stress", the more stress hormone that is in the womb, the more likely the child will be homosexual. The stress implies that the siblings will need help raising children and the parents won't want as many grandchildren, or at the very least that there is some amount of overpopulation. Fewer mouths = greater survival for the species at whole.

Get your nose in a text book and stop talking out your bum until you do.

mixedpie, there are also several species of crustaceans and a couple birds, but that's a wikipedia list, which is (gasp) backed up by sources. And, thank you. This guy has been on a streak like no one's business. It's become tiring to argue with a brick wall.

How about we all just take a bong hit, chill, and listen to some good classical jazz: http://www.youtube(dot)com/watch?v=gxlVXdHlsCA&feature=relmfu

Patrick93 You really need more help than I can give you! I have done professional research. I need at least three references to verify information. The history channel like all tv is slanted towards what the programmer wants to say and show. What preconceived ideas the money men want to show has to pass by them and okayed by them before it goes on the air.

So you are gay. Hoorah for you! Go back and cry on your mother's apron! You are more unintellectual with every word you write. Kinsey and Johnson wrote many books on human homosexuality and I have a shelf filled with books on human sexuality. It is a subject I am very familiar with. One does not have to be homosexual or bisexual to understand the topic. Matter of fact not being homosexual or bisexual gives one the distance to look at it dispassionately.

One can examine it from every aspect and angle and apply the written ideas to the actual behaviour without having preconceived ideas. You being gay have to write from the inside out and bring up all the old comments and ONE non scientific state from a person who set up ONE exhibit in Norway who has no credentials. Yes I investigated the person who wrote that statement and he has no studies in the field or degrees.

You and anyone else have to rely on heresay. The birth records of his children are a matter of record. The Catholic Church tried for many years to smear Galileo and many, many rumours were started by them.

Now you can not go back centuries and find any cogent legal document such as birth certificates that say Galileo had homosexual tendencies.

There is your first typo. You said the following: "And you have no cited anything!"

I have cited a lot and I told you where to find the references. You are too lazy or don't have the ability to do searches. YOU ARE AFRAID! You are afraid to see the proof and find at least three articles with footnotes that prove you are writing lies and unsubstantiated garbage.

You called Einstein a gay. Yet he had two wives and many public affairs with well known famous women.

You are too lazy to look that information up. I am not going to do your work for you.

Your citations have some flaws??????????? You haven't shown anything. You lied boldfaced on this channel. Do some honest research and fault me with facts. I have dinner to prepare, a date to go on WITH A WOMAN and later work to do.

You gave me one document that I had already read, checked that the author had no history or degrees to make that statement and had studied more about homosexual acts in the animal kingdom than you would ever want to know about and WHY the animals indulge in homosexual acts within the given species. And I know the difference between homosexuality and homosexual acts. A difference you have no inkling what the two mean.

You bet your life I am combative. You refuse to do even five minutes of real research into any statement I have made and find any fact that disproves them.

I on the other hand took your only citation and tore it to pieces.

You stated that both Einstein and Galileo were flaming off the wall gays and I disproved it. I gave you the name of Galileo's mistress and the three children he had with her.

I told you that Einstein was married twice and was an outrageous womanizer.

You failed to disprove any statement I made.

You are just a lonely person who indulges in shooting from the hip about something you saw on tv or some 6 year old article that doesn't have footnotes and written by a man who put up an exhibit in Norway. Finally, and offensively, I find you ridiculous.

This conversation is over and anything you say will not be replied to. You lied about your education, you lied about many things and of course once you break confidence, nothing you say in the future can be relied upon to be truthful. EOF

Todayopinion- You say that some people responding to your comments have devlolved to insults directed at you, yet you do the same when responding back to them. I do decry either side doing that, so I simply ask you to reread some of your comments and try not to respond and denegrate others to win your argument.

Now, I can undrestand that from A Biologists point of view, the "gene" can be the great determing factor. I assume you understand the concept of the "meme?" Now, my argument is that a person's sexuality generally doesn't have a bearing on ther Memetic legacy to society, and in some cases may be inherant in it. I think its a fair argument to say that societal memes have had more impact into our current advatanges as a species than our genetic ones, for the last , say 12000 years?

and the assumption that "smart men" have offspring with "smart women" has been greatly contested. Many "smart" individuals tend to have offspring with more physically sexually desireable women than intellectually., or tend to find one that more is appealing to their social class.

todaysopinion.....earlier you mentioned debating and using derogatory terms--yet the longer you stay on here the more you use them---sounds like you're losing the argument.

Now I degrade to insults. Today, you are one arrogant deluded loon.

I think todayopinion might just be a troll. I don't want to believe anyone is actually like this.

As we are not in a debate and the name calling, slurs and insults were already established, the return of those insults is warranted as the people who committed the "DASTARDLY DEEDS" were already mired in the mud of deceit and ignorance. That they should know the contempt I hold them for their lies, ignorance and shovelling the s**t to cover up their ignorance and try and snow people should be exposed in the language they are most accustomed to. You all do not know how to read. My reference to debating was prefaced with if. Once the insults, slurs and lies had been established, I feel free to come down to your levels and tell you how stupid and idiotic you all are for your comments.

Empire, if an opponent retreats constantly from his debating points acknowledges that he lied and constantly tries to vex someone with attacks, than the gloves are off. As Patrick who states that someone is an arrogant deluded loon, it is evident that he has an inferiority complex and cannot and will not stick to the conversation as a gentleman and look for answers to comments.

Mixedpie, really, you are all mixed up. Try readings in sociology and take a couple of courses in Comparisons of Religions. There was a very interesting article on the web a few days ago, about the opportunities for lower class people in general and for the lower class in America, with footnotes and very interesting reasoning by a well known scholar. And yes I researched the author after I read the article in order to find out his degrees, other writings and books.

You have a degree in Anthropology like Patrick says he has a degree in quantum computation! You can say anything you want and declare yourself to have any number of degrees but you can't deny the complete ridiculousness of your writings. That demonstrates your lack of knowledge and degree of wasteland in your intellect.

Yes indeed they are pretty whacked out , as whacked as our resident bigot Mr. Price. Always reliable to show up on the vine for an article about Gays.

Never fails, shows up like a bad penny. Now what do you suppose that is all about?

Now what do you suppose that is all about?

How did the "Great Bard" put it??

Methinks the lady doth protest .....................

One does have to wonder. Maybe he's done a little time in the pokey and got "poked". And now the ax is a grindin :)

Poor soul.

Cute photo of you Sharkman. Did you perhaps go through the conversion therapy yourself?

If he did it failed, still looks gay.

I'm not sure the therapy was completely effective, Rweber.

that's HILARIOUS :)

I'm not sure the therapy was completely effective, Rweber.

you're such a fag, homo, queer boy

And after reading the part about the sexual orientation slurs, I'm wondering why they are still gay. It's sounds effective. They should be cured.

The men in their neighborhoods should be able to sleep calmly and mow their yards in their swim trunks without fear of being watched by these guys now.

After reading about the therapy in this program I would even feel safe bending over in the showers naked without being getting Second Miled from behind.

Nah, he looks more like the I can't believe it's not butter guy with bleached hair.

There are "Holier than Thou" prudes in every religious group, and there are anti-sex and anti-gay prudes in most religions, too. Christianity does not have a monopoly on intolerance and hypocrisy.

I supposed you have all sorts of scientific data to back up your assertions.

Maybe if you had spent a little more time in English class and a little less time with the counselor talking about your gay tendencies you'd know how to spell.

homosexuality is not a mental disorder, duh! ignorant much?

mas098 is right. Notice how the liberals only have one or two tired rhetorical tricks in response. They're a demented mob -- they don't do any of their own thinking, and are opposed to any one else's freedom of thought. Let's hope none of them end up on the jury.

the Aemrican medical, pscychiatric, psychological and psychoanalytical association and the american academy of pediatrics say that gay is natural in some people, they are born that way.

I wonder how many of those who believe in gay fix thereapy have any medical degree, eg even as a practical nurse. (that might be the correct occupation for these fakos - cleaning bedpans in hospitalss etc.

its all about money ad further demonizing gay people by blaming the gays for being gay.

Heres george rekers who claimed he could fix gays at NARTH which he ran for years. HE couldnt even fix himself.

http://www.ranker.com/list/top-10-anti-gay-activists-caught-being-gay/joanne

Here's an article for ya, maso98...

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8772014

Notice how the liberals only have one or two tired rhetorical tricks in response.

Notice how the bigots never have any facts to back up their BS.

Thanks Mr Thinker Citizen dude :0)

I served too, then got booted for being a lesbo.

Oh well, I mustered on, adapted and overcame. I appreciate and thank you for your words and your service.

My oldest sibling got booted for smoking weed 20 + years after she served in the "nam"

They knew all along she was a "pot head" but waited until just shy of her retirement to bust her.

Service is undervalued in this nation once we return.

We do what we must to protect those who won't. Even if they have no clue.

So glad DADT is gone.

I'm so proud of you!

I have no idea how another man can desire a hairy butt hole and think that they are normal. As for those closet queers that served in the military they are all liars and have no integrity. They only served so they could get close to young same sex soldiers and take advantage of them. Every gay person knows in their heart that they are f'd up which is why so many are alcoholics and drug addicts. They also spread sexual diseases around at an alarming rate. What is really wrong is that they have organizations that go to Elementary schools to educate children about their alternative life style. Parents are ignorant to what is happening to their own children. I guess this is the new normal!!!

Patriot, no credible scientific article has substantiated what you just tried to pass off. Gays have no higher of an alcoholism or drug rate than anyone else. And the mathematical laws of chaos say HIV was gonna come along one way or another. The fact the carrier happened to be a very loose bisexual french canadian man is happenstance.

Nope, Patriot. Ain't nuthin' normal about that post.

If you're judging by the instance of HIV wether your sexuality is abhorent, then lesbians are the only correct way to be. I'm a lesbian, too bad I'm male.

And thank you for your service too LJ.

Patriot, you are partially right. People whom are gay do know they are messed up, in that they know they aren't the norm. When they are young they are angry and do not understand why they are different. They are also afraid because they know most people will not accept them, they fear losing those they love becaues of this difference. It SUCKS! I can understand how many people do not understand how a man could desire a man because they themselves desire the opposite sex, but can't you understand at least that no one wants to desire members of their own sex? They don't because they do not want to be an outcast, no one wants to be the outsider, made fun or, laughed at, beaten, discriminated against. Everyone has a desire to be loved. Being gay does not help one to be accepted by everyone, it makes one an outcast. So just understand at least that these people want to be accepted as people. Not hated, made fun of, attacked. They want to live a complete life, just like you, and it's un fair for anyone to expect them not to. And they join the military not to look at other young people or trick them into anything, they join because they love this country. Nothing more than that, possibly some join to get away from the stress of home as well, because it is very stressful hiding something like this. It is so sad that so many just want acceptance but most people refuse to give them a chance, but the worst part of this is when people live a lie in order to please people around them. How fair is that? It is very sad but a lot of people sacrifice their happieness for people like yourself because they want acceptance from you. It is selfish of people like yourself.

We know the motive behind that piece of pseudo-science.

You'll have to come up with something better than that for shutting up people who legitimately oppose the radical gay agenda (or blatant attempts to cash in, as in the article above).

To..Porter"""

Thank you ...

Amunaka,

So what is your reason for being here? To support or get aroused?

Amunaka, that was way too easy. ROFLMAO

100% correct. And throw in a free haircut for the guy on right

To..Porter""

Well intentioned therapist

What a hoot

And who's doing the cashing in...

You need help with reading and basic reasoning, Amunaka.

The therapist is selling a service for which customers voluntarily sign up and pay a small amount.

Your four pervert friends are feigning victimhood and trying to scam millions. That would make them the ones that are "cashing in". I won't respond to you again unless you show a modicum of intelligence. A liberal stance is not a substitute for thinking ability.

To Porter"""

Silly one ...

My, Porter, you seem downright obsessed. I wonder why? Hmmmm...

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8772014

To Porter """

Oh ya and from above..."" JOHNA...founded by Goldberg, a former Wall Street executive and attorney.""""

talk about scam...

Well intentioned doesn't cut it. They have to be ethical and competent, as well. These weren't.

A person whom is gay that does not want to be gay will probably do just about anything to stop being gay. This was an easy way to make money for this organization. I don't doubt that they mean well, and that they sincerely are trying to help these people. The fact is, it doesn't work. Plus the things that they did to try to make it work were screwed up. I can't understand how anyone cannot see that this is the case. Most people will do ANYTHING to fit into the norm and be accepted. We all want happiness, being gay means being rejected. Rejected sometimes by family and friends, so who would walk on coals, through hell and back to keep the love of family and friends?????

These guys are sexually inexperienced. They could suffer from identity confusion, or performance anxiety.

C'mon, a homosexual not thinking they are broken. Homosexuals live in a world the continual confronts their lifestyle as wrong. That would create a miriad of feelings that many of us never have to deal with. If you are told that your lifestyle is not acceptable on a regular basis how could anyone easily come to terms with their sexual orientation. I know this world has come a long way in my life time, but its evident we have a long way to go before people stop associating homosexual behavior as negative behavior. God only knows what drove these guys to seek therapy. Mom? Dad? Society? It shocking sometimes that the ones who are suppose to care for us the most push us over the edge.

The thalamus in the brains of homos is smaller when compared to those of straight men. These four gays didnt have a behavioral problem. They have a psychological problem caused by a deficiency in thier brains! Now thats science for you!

fox, that study was debunked in 2010 by the harvard medical review. Nice try but keep up please.

Pat,

Trying?...I told you the truth & you could'nt handle it. You cant discredit what i posted (which you already seem to know is true) by throwing the name of some ivy league college out & saying they debunked it. thats not how it is done prove me wrong(Link?) if not dont waste my time.

Trying?...I told you the truth & you could'nt handle it. You cant discredit what i posted (which you already seem to know is true) by throwing the name of some ivy league college out & saying they debunked it. thats not how it is done prove me wrong(Link?) if not dont waste my time.

Actually, I disproved you as well. As to a link, here:

However, Swaab's research was "criticized on both methodological and conceptual grounds" in a 2003 review by Karori Mbugua.^[15] Among the issues Mbugua raises are: 1. sexual orientation was assessed by health care professionals by unknown means, rather than being self-reported. 2. While subjects "died of opportunistic infections resulting from AIDS, they were not matched for clinical diagnosis". Thus the diseases which actually killed the subjects were not controlled for.

The total irony is...you can't even get the results of the study right! The results stated:

suprachiasmatic nucleus to be nearly twice the size in homosexual men as heterosexual men.^[12]

^{So really, what the hell are you talking about?}