Found one!!!

WebMD also once told me I had Bubonic Plague.

The problem will take care of itself naturally.

Really??? Then why didn't gay people die out, oh say after the very first one ever existed? Why have the continued to be part of humanity for our 40,000+ years?

@Sarah - Your little anti-religious countdown is really getting old. Seen it before on other comment columns.

Tim,

If by "shout down", you mean asking you to provide a secular argument, that has legal authority and is backed by credible evidence???

You didn't answer my question...

Really??? Then why didn't gay people die out, oh say after the very first one ever existed? Why have the continued to be part of humanity for our 40,000+ years?

Ooops, you got me. I'm bigoted against bigotry. Yeah, I'm okay with that.

Sarah, how do you feel about plural marriages? Not just the usual one man, multiple wives thing ... but multiples of people. Interested to hear your wisdom.

Richod,

When did I say anything about your opinions of either of those? Please quote where I did? Or did I respond to each part of your post...

Your little anti-religious countdown is really getting old.

Then I said...

And there's a difference between being anti-religious, and anti-zealot. You should learn it.

See, you claimed I was anti-religious. I cleared that up, I'm anti-zealot. That has nothing to do with your opinions of those issues, just your personal assumption of me.

Reading comprehension not your strong suit???

What does plural marriage have to do with either of these issues???

Hey Sarah, their perfect little fairytale world is changing right before their eyes and it's blowing their "little" minds. :O A great day for Washington State and I'm sure more will follow! :D

Plural marriage has nothing to do with either of those subjects ... but since you're a strong anti-zealot, I was curious about your position on that issue. There are many people sincerely interested in plural marriage, and I want to know if you support their right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, via plural marriage.

A rather angry little person, aren't you! First you question why I'm following you ... as if I was even remotely interested in you

Yet you're interested enough to not only engage me, but keep track of things I've posted in the past and remember them specifically.

Seems rather self-absorbed and narcissistic.

Actually, I'm completely baffled and a little flattered by the fact that you remember such specifics, over extended time periods, about things I've posted.

Then you insult by inferring I need to learn the difference between anti-religious and anti-zealot.

Well it's either that, or you jumped to an unproven and unprovable conclusion about a person you don't even know.

You might want to refrain from all the judgement and hate,

You think THIS is judging and hating you. Oh trust me buddy, you really have no idea what I'm capable of in that area. This is nothing.

since it appears you're trying to influence opinions on this forum.

Actually, I'm more concerned with making sure that the unfounded, unproven rhetoric of people like Timothy doesn't influence people, rather than influencing them myself.

Now, do you wish to continue discussing me, or would you like to discuss the issues??? Yeah, you aren't overly focused on me at all, are you???

And I'm fine with plural marriage as long as it's consensual and not based in abuse or engaged in by people under the age of legal consent.

Wow, legalizing gay marriage is one thing, but pot is another question. San Francisco tried it and it was a flaming disaster. Crime double in one year because of this legalization. Grow operations got out of control and Weed stores were constantly being robbed, not to mention, the neighborhood crime rate skyrocketed. And this stuff isn't the Elephant Grass, Kona Gold or Maui Waui of the 1970's. This stuff is triple the strength of the Weed of old. Now Washington State law on pot has become a paradox; that being legal by State Law, yet illegal by Federal law. So its legal but yet illegal! Go figure!

This is justified in the bible. See Leviticus 20:13

If a man lies with another man as he would with a woman, he shall be stoned."

Sarah - You're so blind in your hate.

Leave it to the Christian fundamentalist to feel hated and persecuted when you stand up to them and the imposition of their beliefs. Richod, FYI, in the modern US, it's the Christians who are the Romans now. They have the money and power while their corporate sponsors are the lions who get fed a daily diet of minorities and the poor. I just thank God that our democracy is working a little bit to hold their power in check.

Wire,

Well, home is 500 miles away. So I guess not. By the way, you must be on here a lot to, in order to know that. And "@!$%#ing" has a C in it. If you're going to drop the F-bomb, don't be a pussy about it. That's about as disingenuous as it gets.

Ooo, I'm really scared

Good thing I wasn't trying to scare you. If I wanted to do that, I would ask what your opinion of the issues are and to discuss them on a substantive level.

Oh I see your avatar almost everywhere. Even in the dog food section.

Really, I don't remember ever commenting on dog food. I don't even own a dog.

I love the Lol's. They work so well when you're trying to express your disdainful, "I don't care" manner. Too bad that TOO is disingenuous, seeing as I'm willing to bet you aren't really lol-ing.

Sarah, though I support legalizing both same-sex marriage and marijuana, you're making it really difficult to want to be on the same side as you.

Dan,

Well good thing, neither of those have anything to do with me then, isn't it? Nor is your support of them dependent on liking me.

These are big steps towards a more free society. All drugs should be decriminalized though.

You go Sarah! I don't have the patience to correspond with the haters.

On the issues, its is great that some states are getting local govt out of where it does not belong. However, I do not understand why the federal govt continues to insist on wasting taxpayers dollars, directly fighting with local laws. Obama decided he could unilaterally decide to stop supporting DOMA. Why does he insist on being even tougher on medical marijuana that Republicans have been?

Satanik & Steve,

I don't get it either. They should be legal. And then we could take the funds that we're flushing down the toilet fighting an endless, losing battle, and funnel them into mental health and addiction programs. We could build entire private and public industries around this, to say nothing of manufacturing, distributing, selling.... Of the drugs themselves.

People need to look at the long term, bigger picture here.

Making drugs illegal creates many problems and solves virtually nothing. It is not about making society better. It is about making some people wealthy. Big pharma benefits from weed being illegal, the court systems benefit, law enforcement benefits, private prison corporations benefit, criminal gangs profit etc. All this money that we are flushing down the toilet goes to these sources.

Alcohol prohibition created organized crime in the last century, provided them with a profit, and while introducing massive corruption in our legal and political systems. There is just too much money for honest cops and politicians to always stay honest.

Marijuana prohibition has led to the cartels, thousands of deaths annually, massive corruption in legal and political systems. The cartels are big donors to anyone promising to be hard on drugs. This can a win-win situation: decriminalize non violent behavior and you stop wasting tax dollars pursuing a meaningless drug war, destroy the cartels, create new industries and jobs in America, provide a tax base to support the medical issues addicts have ... with alcohol or other substances. This approach has been effective in every country that has tried it.

This must be driving the Republican Party nuts. I'm sure their planning a counter offensive against this horrible outbreak of personal freedom..... Most people have forgotten that 99% of the prohabitions introduced in America were always brought to us by the good old Republican Party. Republicans just hate it when people are free to live their lives the way they want to.

The Greedy Old Party just loves to wave the flag, talk about freedom and spew out all kinds of empty rhetoric but in reality the only freedom they care about is their own.

I applaud the good citizens of Washington state for doing the right thing.

It is still illegal to smoke pot in public, it is just that you get a ticket for it instead of being arrested. Second there is no place to buy it legally, so you can still only get it from drug dealers. The state wants to sell it through the liquor board but have no way of doing it now. Even if they did, it is still against Federal law. So anyone selling it and whoever the state gets to oversee it (ie. Director of liquor sales) could be arrested by the DEA for trafficking drugs. People still cannot grow your own pot, so they have to buy it. Anyone growing enough to sell can be arrested for trafficing drugs. The state will see a reduction in Federal funds to combat drugs because of this.

All this law does is increase the sells of pot from drug dealers. The state will not see any taxes from them. It will also increase crime so people can buy pot or because more of under the influance of it. It will put the state officials in the same league as the drug dealers and open them to arrest by the DEA. So the only ones that gain by this new law is the drug dealers.

What a law.

The problem will take care of itself naturally

If the gay "problem" will go away naturally, if the HIV issue will go away naturally, why are the religious zealots, the r/tp/con cabal, and the haters of anything that they are terrified of, trying so damn hard to pass anti everything laws, scapegoat those they fear, criminalize and punish all who aren't "pure" enough, wasting millions of tax dollars trying to end those "evils" right now? What is the reason for the big rush?

People starving, in need of medical care to save their lives, in need of clean air and safe drinking water, or in need of jobs, easing your fears of the "gay menace" are no where to be found on the list of what we "need". Education can help overcome irrational fears. More people need to get educated and then they wouldn't feel such a need to judge others because of that fear.

There's a fantastic quote going around the Internet:

It all makes sense now: gay marriage legalized on the same day as marijuana makes perfect biblical sense. Leviticus 20:13 "A man who lays with another man shall be stoned." Our interpretation has just been wrong for all these years.

Good for the state of Washington. Two great victories for liberty and personal freedom.

Since
both these issues failed in California, has anyone researched the influx of
gays to Washington State, like time frame of migration? All thought the
marijuana issue passed, could it have a direct connection to the gay marriage
voters? Personally I like the separation of church and state and the marriage
issue should stay out of Government, taxes, entitlements all the reasons people
think the Government needs to Govern them for, and yes I voted no, because it
shouldn't even be an issue, people wanting something from somebody else because
the two of them is not enough. And not to be hypocritical I voted no on
marijuana. Again, should be none of the governments business. It’s the
Governments business to protect its citizens and borders from outside entities.
It’s the drama queens always looking in towards the people who are inherent in
all political power, in attempts to miss lead and miss guide so their masters
can gain more and more control of the inherent and do this for reward, like recognition.

Second there is no place to buy it legally, so you can still only get it from drug dealers

or grow your own. It's a plant.

Sorry matt...it is still illegal to grow your own plants. Even under the new law. You will have to buy it from a drug dealer. WA. State will be just be supporting the drug dealers under this law.

Well, it looks like Washington is going to hell first....before everybody else!

What a feat Washington...way to go folks

There are many books out there on how to cultivate it. It's a weed with a flower that isn't very showy but has an inner beauty. Pick a sunny part of your garden, about three square feet. You can actually put it on a trellis so it doesn't get too tall and can't be seen by your neighbors. Plant in May, harvest in September or October, depending, of course, on your local climate. Actually, you can grow it in a window box or indoors with enough light, it's very adaptable. The local drug mules will have to find a new job.

A 100 million a year on pot law enforcement just in Washington! Wow, Feds take note. There could be your answer to the fiscal cliff.

Wire,

You just wanted a little bit of attention, didn't you. Really, it's okay to just ask for it instead of seeking it in a negative manner. Now do you have anything you want to say about the article??

More Lol... (See I can type that too).

Sarah, what we're seeing evolve is a new definition of the word "bigotry." It no longer means having irrational dislike or hatred of someone or some group; it now consists of pointing out that hatred in other people. For example, calling an African-American a n!@@*r is no longer being bigoted--calling that person a bigot is what is bigoted. Which, dropping all glibness, is as much as to say that the bigots are simply trying to play the victimhood card...

Conjuring,

It always makes me think of that part in Monty Python and the Holy Grail, where the knight has got the peasant by the back of the neck, shaking him and the peasant starts screaming, "Help, help, I'm being oppressed"!

Big Al, I knew it would just be a matter of time until someone turned this into a GOP issue. Is there not one issue in this country that the American people discuss without it coming down to donkeys and elephants.

Least we forget these same animals outlawed marijuana for no good reason back in 1937

Sarah, when you said 'Don't say blow in front of them, it might make their heads explode" did you mean coke, or job? If coke, (with your pot stance) you're just a waste case then and they shouldn't waste their time trying to debate with you. If you mean job, then you are just a zealot, assuming they don't have any sex because they're opposed to these laws(?)

Unbelievable,

If both, you have no concept of irreverence.

Liberals are WRONG and its so sad the world has come to this.

Pot smoking is OK but the tobacco industry is being attacked everyday which is WRONG

Marriage is biblical in nature Sarah sorry you can't accept that fact and gays should not be married, civilized unions were fine.

ObamaCare is raising the top rates by 4.7% but Obama wants to push it another 4.6% that is WRONG

Liberals favor killing children in the womb and call it a woman's right to choose the death of her child that is WRONG

Obama pitting everyone against the people who give them jobs and creating class warfare it is WRONG

Union Clerical workers at the LA docks who make 165,000 a year and wanting 195,000 + 11 weeks paid vacation time and wanting featherbedding on top of all that is WRONG

5.72 Trillion in debt in less than 4 years under Obama and the DEMs which is WRONG

America is due for a wake up call and the tea baggers will be the least of your problems

Marriage is biblical in nature Sarah sorry you can't accept that fact and gays should not be married, civilized unions were fine.

No, it's contractual in nature, because it existed even before the Bible was written. And just what the hell does "Obamacare" have to do with anything on this string, hmm?...

If Sarah's a lesbian, then she's the one who you shouldn't say blow around! I do have concept of 'irreverence". I'm breezy.

I am definitely anti-marriage, but if you want to do it go ahead. I am pro-legalizing pot, not that I like pot, and whatever substance you willingly put into your body.

Will Obama and the DOJ be going after states that try to exercise their Constitutional rights?

Lol Randy you need to visit Washington and take in some herbal medicines. The world won't seem so scary then.

Being single, I've never liked the idea of being taxed more to help support straight married couples, now I have to support gay couples I guess! It really sucks since they have two incomes usually coming into their home over my one. I hope they're enjoying their 50 inch flat screen TV's, I still have a crappy 29 inch TV.

who the hell cares about weed or gay people when religion has increased its murder rate 100 fold in 5 yrs

Religiouscomment have always been around, but I have to say there has been a striking increase in religious battles on newsvine. I hope this is not the trend..and I also hope that no one will walk up to me and say "hi, im a __<insert religious affiliation>___....but for some reason it is done time and time again on here, people labeling others solely on the "assumed" religious affiliation...I have to say, who the hell cares about weed or gay people when religion has increased its murder rate and now is at my back door....try war against religion instead of war against gays or weed. Period. I hate religion because of you all...gotta be all psycho about it.

For all the bible-thumpers out there quoting a single line from Leviticus here's two lines from both the New and Old Testaments that may help you see that Jesus was about LOVE not hate:

Mat 22:39 "The second is like it, 'YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.'

Lev 19:18 'You shall not take vengeance, nor bear any grudge against the sons of your people, but you shall love your neighbor as yourself; I am the LORD.

So kindly stop cherry-picking lines to fit your narrow minded agenda. My wife and I have been married nearly 20 years now, and she and I don't have a single issue with same-sex marriage. It doesn't have any effect on our marriage other than to make the institution of marriage all that much more strong, as it shows how it is about love, not anything else. Love transcends all, and Jesus tried to teach that.

But if you are going to stick to outdated Old Testament arguments, then you had best be selling your daughters into slaver, marrying your late brothers' widows, and staying away from shrimp cocktails! Either go all in, and drop the Christian part to follow the Judaic traditions, or embrace the teachings of Jesus and love everyone and learn to live your own lives before worrying about what others are doing. Unless you are without sin, you cannot be casting stones. Your Bible, your rules. Live them or admit you aren't Christian, just hatemongers, the complete OPPOSITE of what it means to be a Christian.

Who understand liberals.

They regulate how much food we can eat, how much soda we can drink, they want to take away your rights to bear arms , but....they complain because they don't have freedom to consume drugs, or because they don't have their right to call marriage to an homosexual union. I guess , freedom works for them only one way, their way.

To all the pot smokers: Please be civil about this. Be smart and don't over step bounds that you know you shouldn't. There are a lot of eyes on you and Colorado, if you can be responsible, this could spread out to other states and if it money is really saved with not having criminals in jail for pot and crime does drop, it could be dropped on a federal level. Now that will be a long time but it if everyone can keep their wits and be responsible, I could definitely be a possibility.

As for the gays. Sarah, I'm religious but not a zealot. I don't hate anyone but I don't agree with homosexuality. I will treat any person gay or straight with the same respect, as everyone should and as everyone deserves, but I have an issue with being called a bigot because I don't agree. You treat people like your the bigot because, we don't agree. Why? There is nothing wrong with voicing our opinion as there is nothing wrong with voicing yours. I understand there are people who spew hate and garbage, those are bigots. Mostly people are just upset that gays want to call themselve married, what's wrong with civil union you get the exact same benifits which is the goal (is it not) but no it has to be more along with what seems the forcing of gays acceptance. I have read plenty of respectful post that do not agree with homosexuality. Yes, they are religious, that doesn't mean their zealots, just means like most people they're trying to be good in this world and it's hard enough without having "sin" legal. I know you don't see sin in that lifestyle but it is and that's just fact. Will you or any gay go to hell for it, I don't know it's not for me to say, I'm positive many staights have gone to hell way before the gays and will continue to do so and all I know is that if something is wrong, it's not good and has to at least be said. So with respect to you and those gays, congratulations on your victory, however it must be said that homosexuality is wrong.

Richod, do you get the feeling that your dialogue with Sarah has more to do with her earning extra credit in law school?

TheKhanKubla very Good point. It is my understanding that the reason gays were not accepted federaly was because of the sudden decrease in single tax payers...they feared all the gay people would run out and get married and claim the married status....

Morals in this country are going down the toilet and so is basic education example below

No, it's contractual in nature, because it existed even before the Bible was written. And just what the hell does "Obamacare" have to do with anything on this string, hmm?..

1. The bible records the first murder and gays are sodomites after the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah. Marriage , gays , murder and the fall of man are all covered.

2. Obama Care and other subjects listed show the down fall and mental problems liberals seem to have with right and wrong and horrible moral decisions being made in this country.

Jeffor the world is going to be very scary and its getting worse. 47 million on food stamps doesn't scare you? 2 million children ground up before they are born doesn't scare you? Class warfare doesn't scare you??

Sarah - did you ever actually address Richod's mupltiple-person marriage question? I think it's the only thing he was actually tying to get you to address...

(and yes - I follow you sometimes)

Does no one know wtf a bigot is anymore? I'm seeing it used in such incorrect contexts on here... Let me help some of you people out..: Bigotry- intolerance toward those who hold different opinions from oneself. It does NOT mean, "having irrational dislike or hatred of someone or some group;" as stated by Conjuring Cat. "For example, calling an African-American a n!@@*r is no longer being bigoted--calling that person a bigot is what is bigoted." What you described is racism and prejudice, not bigotry. I commend you for attempting to use the words you've just learned though. Now you know how to properly implement them ;) Implement means to "utilize" or "enact" by the way... I'd throw more helpful synonyms your way, but I'm sure you're stuck on the word synonym...

Ask,

You're okay, not creepy at all. And I did. Post 1.16.

And I'm fine with plural marriage as long as it's consensual and not based in abuse, coercion, or engaged in by people under the age of legal consent.

Randy,

Really, marriage is Biblical??? Then why did people engage in it before the Bible was written? And why do people of faiths that have nothing to do with the Bible engage in it? And why do atheists engage in it? And why can you engage in it without ever stepping foot in ANY church?

You're correct about education, seeing as you can't grasp the fact that "God's Laws" and the Bible have nothing to do with our secular nation.

Unbelievable,

Maybe, but you're really bad at it. At least that attempt was.

@Sarah

you have out debated all of them by X 10 "thank you"

it would appear that none who have taken the opposing stand have read or understand the meaning of your words,but rather read in to your statement what they thought you where going to say and then responded with gobbledygook

Zena,

Gobbledygook. That's a fantastic word. I need to use it more. And thank you.

For those stupid people who do not know Aids has been cured.

The bible also records that there were talking snakes and donkeys walking and slithering around.

http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2011/05/16/apparent-immunity-gene-cures-bay-area-man-of-aids/

I think it's wonderful that now there is another place for a man to go if he wants to get high and suck another man's ....

just makes that earthquake we're all hoping for back here a bit more exciting

you guys all enjoy your new found freedoms

There is more than one way to cure aids. It also will lead to a cure for Cancer. The cure is in the undifferentiated stem cell, that survive treatment. The have been identified and small particles, medicine, all ready exist that will block the cell pathways, and kill cancer. Aids is part of the natural world, just like gays and pot.

http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2011/05/16/apparent-immunity-gene-cures-bay-area-man-of-aids/

Former VP Dick Cheney was a virulent homophobe...till his daughter "came out" as a Lesbian and married another woman.

Former President Ronald Reagan was a life-long Homophobe, who disowned his only son, Ron Jr. who was a ballet dancer...Reagan only saw him one time,during his 8 year presidency

Newt Gingrich....life long Homophobe, didn't shut up about "queers" till his sister came out of the closet as a Lesbian.

Senator Larry Craig ( R), caught in a mens room stall, soliciting Gay Sex at O'Hare Airport in Chicago, by an undercover Morals police detective....

Rush Limbaugh,...convicted felon, drug addict, admitted self-abuser, and undisciplined repulsive food addict.; unbalanced anger issues.

There are more than one way to cure aids. It also will lead to a cure for Cancer. The cure is in the undifferentiated stem cell, that survive treatment. The have been identified and small particles, medicine, all ready exist that will block the cell pathways, and kill cancer. Aids is part of the natural world, just like gays and pot.

http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2011/05/16/apparent-immunity-gene-cures-bay-area-man-of-aids/

To all the fruits and fruit lovers it's not legal. It's still against federal law for a fruit to marry a fruit. It's still against federal law to smoke dope as well. So if your standing on the corner toking one and a fed arrest you nobody to blame but yourself. If Sarah debates this she's already lost. A fruit is a fruit. No way in hell she can deny that.

Oh, she will try.

Love it. There are several reasons I will never live in California or Oregon , the state of Washington just added themselves to it. Stupid is as stupid does. There is a cure for ignorance but stupidity is terminal.

Bit of a history lesson and why "Gay Marrage" is an Oximoron, if you look up the word Marrage and take it back to it's latin Roots you can find the word comes from the Masculin form of Husband(Man) and Feminin form of Wife(Woman) full translation of the word means "The union of Husband and Wife" meaning it was never ment to be two men or two women, it means one man and one woman together, and I'm not speaking from a Religous standpoint, this is the meaning of a work being contradicted by this new law.

As far as a the Pot thing goes, well see people dieing off soon enough because Humans, mainly the irresponceiable protion of the population will show the flaws in allowing a inhibiting drug to be distributed for public use.

Another thing about Marrages is it originated as a form of uniting two lands by crossing the bloodlines of the higher ranked families, also when you think on the Biologicle lines Homosexuality is a farce due to the fact that Humans and all other creatures on this world propogate by mating with the opposit gender, no matter how many times a man is with a man or a woman is with a woman you will never have offspring.

And for all of you Bible Bashers out there here's something to think about. "The greatest trick the Devil has ever done is convence man that nither he nor God exists" don't hate, just think on this one.

A fruit is a fruit.

You're correct. An apple is a fruit. An orange is a fruit. A grape is a fruit. A fruit is definitely a fruit.

You're also right about the federal law. It will be interesting to watch this unfold. Well, the marijuana part at least. The feds are already letting DOMA go unenforced and SCOTUS will clear that up soon. I'm pretty sure as long as the state law is clear and unambiguous, the feds won't screw with it too much. That's what went wrong in CA and MI. Those medical marijuana laws are neither clear, nor unambiguous, so the feds still stepped in to enforce theirs.

It's still against federal law for a fruit to marry a fruit.

False. There is federal law that makes it so that states where gay marriage isn't legal don't have to recognize the legal marriage in another state... but that is prima facia unconstitutional. Pot is still a schedule 1 drug however. But that too shall change.

Michael,

Humans and all other creatures on this world propogate by mating with the opposit gender, no matter how many times a man is with a man or a woman is with a woman you will never have offspring.

Well good thing being gay doesn't make you infertile and reproduction is not a condition of marriage. We allow married people to NOT have kids, we also allow infertile people to get married, and allow single people to procreate.

"The union of Husband and Wife" meaning it was never ment to be two men or two women, it means one man and one woman together, and I'm not speaking from a Religous standpoint, this is the meaning of a work being contradicted by this new law.

And yet there's precedent for gay marriage throughout the entire course of human history...

http://www.randomhistory.com/history-of-gay-marriage.html

http://digitalcommons.law.yale.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=2503&context=fss_papers

More applicable is the precedent of marriage as a legal contract than root words.

Another thing about Marrages is it originated as a form of uniting two lands by crossing the bloodlines of the higher ranked families,

Exactly. A legal contract, not a religious ceremony.

"The greatest trick the Devil has ever done is convence man that nither he nor God exists" don't hate, just think on this one.

I could never hate that movie. It's too damn good.

And for all of you Bible Bashers out there here's something to think about. "The greatest trick the Devil has ever done is convence man that nither he nor God exists" don't hate, just think on this one.

Lol! Wow, if that is all religion has going for it, then I guess it's no wonder that 20% of Americans classify themselves as "not religious".

Hey Sarah, good to see you. Keep up the good fight :)

Sarah, I've given you a vote on every post you have here. If I'm ever invited to a debate, I'd like you there as my second. Lol. You're a pleasure to read.

Whatever you do for a living, if it should ever not work out, I recommend becoming a proctologist, since asses are already flocking towards you.

Morals in this country are going down the toilet and so is basic education example below

Morality is subjective, so YOUR so-called "morals" are not everyone's morals. Regarding basic education, you seem to be living proof that it is not improving.

1. The bible records the first murder and gays are sodomites after the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah. Marriage , gays , murder and the fall of man are all covered.

WRONG. Civil marriage predates organized religion by thousands of years; in fact, religion did not involve itself in marriage until around the mid-1500s. And in this secular nation, legal marriage is and has always been strictly a civil contract.

BTW, have you ever had a blow job? Congratulations -- you're a sodomite, too! As are many heterosexuals (in fact, more of them are than homosexuals).

2. Obama Care and other subjects listed show the down fall and mental problems liberals seem to have with right and wrong and horrible moral decisions being made in this country.

We liberals do not have a problem with right and wrong, or morality; what we have a problem with is conservaturds like you who bring down the curve for everyone.

Bit of a history lesson and why "Gay Marrage" is an Oximoron, if you look up the word Marrage and take it back to it's latin Roots you can find the word comes from the Masculin form of Husband(Man) and Feminin form of Wife(Woman) full translation of the word means "The union of Husband and Wife" meaning it was never ment to be two men or two women, it means one man and one woman together, and I'm not speaking from a Religous standpoint, this is the meaning of a work being contradicted by this new law.

Actually, the word for husband in French is "mari," and the word for wife is "femme" -- "femme" is not included in the word "marriage" or "marry" at all. Furthermore, if you look at the etymologies of thousands of words commonly in use today, you will find that they do not mean what their origins indicate -- so what's your point?

In addition, same-sex marriage was legal in quite a few ancient civilizations, and our own Native Americans also performed them.

I would also like to point out that, since you seem to be looking up so many words, you might at least take the time to learn to spell them. Your lack of spelling skills does not improve your credibility (such as it is).

Another thing about Marrages is it originated as a form of uniting two lands by crossing the bloodlines of the higher ranked families, also when you think on the Biologicle lines Homosexuality is a farce due to the fact that Humans and all other creatures on this world propogate by mating with the opposit gender, no matter how many times a man is with a man or a woman is with a woman you will never have offspring.

WRONG. Marriage has existed since ancient times as a contract creating kinship and uniting two families, while protecting their property and inheritance rights. What does propagation have to do with marriage? Although you should realize that homosexuals CAN and DO procreate.

Darth,

Yeah, they flock to me in my personal life to. You should see some of the dudes I've dated.

actually Steven Lockwood they will now have a legitimate business... you know as long as they get a business License!!

Joey-2843551 says:

I don't hate anyone but I don't agree with homosexuality. I have an issue with being called a bigot because I don't agree.

This is a classic example of a bigot who hasn't a clue that they're a bigot. Saying that "you don't agree" with something that is as inherent in nature as red hair or left handedness pretty much means that you're bigoted against that trait.

I know you don't see sin in that lifestyle but it is and that's just fact.

An opinion based in dogma CANNOT be construed as a "fact", just so you know.

So with respect to you and those gays, congratulations on your victory, however it must be said that homosexuality is wrong.

It's like the equivalent of saying, "So with respect to you left handed people, congratulations but it must be said that you're wrong."

See the difference here, because I sure don't. Just because your opinion about a certain group of people is widely held in religious doctrine doesn't mean it's not bigoted.

Yeah, they flock to me in my personal life to. You should see some of the dudes I've dated.

'You'll kiss a few toads before you find a prince.'

I have a good feeling about you, you'll be fine. :)

See the difference here, because I sure don't. Just because your opinion about a certain group of people is widely held in religious doctrine doesn't mean it's not bigoted.

An opinion based in dogma CANNOT be construed as a "fact", just so you know.

Let me check the scoreboard here (The people of Detroit are going to love this):

Lions 3 Christians 0

Neil Hoyt, 52, and Donald Glenn Jenny, 64, have been together for 24 years and will also be getting married at the Seattle Men's Chorus concert on Sunday night (where there will be a judge and 2,000 cupcakes).

Does that include the 2 cupcakes that are getting married?

Well it seems I got it from you, now didn't I?

Yup. You're welcome. I'm sure it's made your day since you keep coming back for more and discussing me instead of the article.

Ah, but I never ask on Newsvine. I always take.

I'm trying to spin this in every sarcastic, irreverent way I can to try and understand what you're getting at. I can't. I seriously I don't get it.

Well you are one funny girl, that's for sure. Have you considered seeking attention at the comedy club? You could be on stage for the whole world to see.

Sure, maybe I'll give it a shot sometime.

What? And see that poor taste in losers you have?

You hit that one out of the park. I do have some seriously poor taste when it comes to guys.

More LOL...

Darth,

That's the best football news we've had in a while.

Don't Worry Be Happy

A husband and wife walked into a tourist shop in Jamaica. A Jamaican man who identified himself as the owner said, “I have some special sandals I think you would be interested in.” He went on to say, “Dey makes you wild at sex especially if you smoke pot before you wear dem.”

Well, the wife was really interested in buying the sandals after what the man claimed, but her husband felt he really didn’t need them, and he didn’t want to admit that their sex life was on the down turn. The husband asked the man, “How could wearing those sandals and smoking pot make you into a sex freak?”

The Jamaican replied, “Just try dem on, Mon.” So, the husband, after some badgering from his wife, finally gave in, so he smoked pot with the Jamaican man and tried on the sandals. As soon as he slipped them onto his feet, he got this wild look in his eyes, something his wife hadn’t seen in many years!

In the blink of an eye, the husband grabbed the Jamaican man, bent him over a table, yanked down his pants, ripped down his own pants, and grabbed a firm hold of the Jamaican’s hips. The Jamaican then began screaming and shouting at the customer, “You got dem on the de wrong feet man! You got dem on
de wrong feet!”

Why are we solely focused on Leviticus 20:13?? What do the other verses is chapter 20 state? There's a verse talking about adultery and that is a cause for death. Funny I see cheating husbands and wives all day everyday and no one outcasts them or ostracised them. Why gays? If we are going to live as the bible says live, we can't just pick and choose what we will persecute others for, every sinner must be held accountable and punished as indicated. Otherwise shut the hell up and let he who is without sin, cast the first stone. *jumps off soapbox*

And for all of you Bible Bashers out there here's something to think about. "The greatest trick the Devil has ever done is convence man that nither he nor God exists" don't hate, just think on this one.

See, you hear that a lot. Which means it's not a very good trick. What if the greatest trick the Devil ever did was to convince people that the bible wasn't already finished, and added "a new testament"?

What if the greatest trick Loki ever pulled was to convince the world this other guy convinced the world he didn't exist? That would have been a twist right up his alley.

What if the greatest trick Mffndl ever pulled was to convince the world he didn't exist? Never heard of him? ...he's better at his craft than the Devil himself!

wire557,

As a casual observer, I gotta tell you, you need to just pick up your limbs (By my count you've lost both arms and a leg) and be grateful. Oh, and change your moniker to I-Hop.

They have your pink slip man, YOU'RE OWNED!!

(By my count you've lost both arms and a leg)

More Holy Grail analogies!!! "It's merely a flesh wound! Come back and I'll bite your leg off!"

I love that movie.

To ALL!

God is love and has offered everyone freedom from sin through receiving Jesus as your savior. When you decide you are ready to be free, go to Jesus and be set free.

John 8: 34Jesus replied, "I tell you the truth, everyone who sins is a slave to sin. 35Now a slave has no permanent place in the family, but a son belongs to it forever. 36So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed.

Romans 6:16Don't you know that when you offer yourselves to someone to obey him as slaves, you are slaves to the one whom you obey--whether you are slaves to sin, which leads to death, or to obedience, which leads to righteousness?

All sin is rebellion against God. You are walking in Satan’s territory. You have become blinded by desires of the flesh which Satan incited you. You say God made you this way. That is the big lie you accepted. Read your Bible and find the truth.

Hahahahaha comedy at its finest in this thread! This stuff is gold!

. Maybe you should take Sarah out instead. Add to her collection of losers.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but my dartboard is currently full.

BlahDeeBlahDeeBlahhh said:

Does no one know wtf a bigot is anymore? I'm seeing it used in such incorrect contexts on here... Let me help some of you people out..: Bigotry- intolerance toward those who hold different opinions from oneself. It does NOT mean, "having irrational dislike or hatred of someone or some group;" as stated by Conjuring Cat.

Maybe you should look the word "bigot" up in a dictionary NOT written by the News Corporation. I think that you'll find you were,

um . . .

WRONG!

And yet there's precedent for gay marriage throughout the entire course of human history...

Pedophilia, zoophilia and all kind of sexual relationship also exist and accepted during the course of the history all of that lead to the decadence of their civilizations , Homosexual relationship also was part of the history , however not because of that you can say same sex union was an institution, In the past to have their own child, procreate was part of their survival.

When you decide you are ready to be free, go to Jesus and be set free.

Oh the irony! Religion=freedom?! lol.

Joe your post is exactly why people don't believe. We as Christians can't just pick and choose which types of sin we will ostracize. This type of "Christianity" alienates and belittles. That is not what Jesus taught us. The only way we can change is through love or if we choose to strictly adhere to what the bible says. Having true consequences for ANY sin that is performed. It hurts my heart that our country that was founded on Christianity has moved away from it. But it's because how we treat our fellow man. This is one of the main differences between Christianity in America and other religions (Buddhism, Muslim, etc) in other areas. Those people LOVE their religion, they practice it to a tee. It's in their hearts, soles, they breath it. Our forefathers didn't instill this in each of us. They only taught us to use religion to keep others down. Now it's backfiring, and there’s nothing anyone can do. The devil has taken over America, and trust me, it’s not due to the legalization of weed or homosexual marriages! If we don't get it together, man will be taking over America.

Sarah - oh, ha. I stopped reading before the last line.

Pedophilia, zoophilia and all kind of sexual relationship also exist and accepted during the course of the history all of that lead to the decadence of their civilizations

Well good thing we've since ceased to recognize children and animals as having legal capacity for informed consent. Phew.

Ask,

I'll let it go this time ;)

OMG Sarah you need to get a freaking life, not opinionated one bit are ya ?

absolutely ridiculous.

on a side note - good for Washington

now go back to your facebook

Religion and living a life with God are two different things. Until you go to Jesus you will never understand. I mean when you find he is alive and lives in you.

OMG Sarah you need to get a freaking life, not opinionated one bit are ya ?

I absolutely am opinionated. Especially on this subject. And, if you profess that I don't have a life, and then engage and respond to me, what does that mean about you? Wouldn't it logically follow that you then have less of one, since you're RESPONDING to someone who YOU profess doesn't have one?

Okicize Wicasa Yata Pi

To all the fruits and fruit lovers it's not legal. It's still against federal law for a fruit to marry a fruit. It's still against federal law to smoke dope as well. So if your standing on the corner toking one and a fed arrest you nobody to blame but yourself. If Sarah debates this she's already lost. A fruit is a fruit. No way in hell she can deny that.

For someone who has War Chief as their name in the Lakota language, I suggest that you look up what the Lakota had to say about the Two-Spirit People; it may actually teach you some basic respect for those that are different, if nothing else…

Shirley - my page was just lading slowly and I tried to click reply a couple of times and accidentally reported your last comment (I think). Sorry - it was totally an accident. I hope it didn't screw anything up (or I hope the "people in charge" see this post right after your post! ha.)

I seriously can't figure out why people have a problem with a state legalizing gay marriage. I haven't really seen ANY real/good arguments against it - legal or otherwise. To be honest (unlike, say, a fiscal policy article where two different strategies can be debated in a forum) this (to me) isn't even really a debatable issue. The arguments that take place in articles like this are guaranteed to lead to discussions/debates that are not directly on point.

It always makes me roll my eyes when the anti-GLBT crowd tries to defend themselves by claiming it's merely just a difference of opinion. They aren't bigots for just "having a belief."

Sorry, folks. That's not how it works. Believing that homosexual individuals are less is a bigotted view. Believing that they don't deserve equal rights in the eyes of the law is a bigotted view. You can try to convince yourself otherwise, but them's the breaks.

What makes it blatantly apparent that it's bigotry toward a specific group is that these same people don't cry foul over the fact that people are legally able to divorce and remarry. They don't talk about how divorced individuals are "living in sin" and shouldn't be allowed "to teach their children." Or how about what divorce is doing to marriage? Where is the outrage? Where are the demonstrators? Where are the fire and brimstone speeches about divorce?

We all know it has nothing to do with your religious beliefs. Rather your religious beliefs are a tool to try to justify your discrimination and prejudice toward a group of people.

In the long run, it won't matter. Eventually gay marriage will be legal everywhere and the whole argument will be a thing of the past, aside from a few fringe zealots who will continue to screech about the end of days being nigh because "the gays get to marry."

Also, please stop equivocating between marriage in terms of a religious rite and marriage in terms of a civil right. The term "marriage" is also a legal term, referring to the specific rights and privileges granted by the state and federal government to couples who go through the process of receiving a marriage license and having it signed. You can claim your church only recognizes marriages between certain individuals. And that's fine. But that has nothing to do with the civil institution of marriage or the rights and privileges it confers. Any other argument is nothing more than equivocation and holds no water.

Man, Sarah has torn things up today.

Nice.

Joey-2843551 - I don't hate anyone but I don't agree with homosexuality. I will treat any person gay or straight with the same respect, as everyone should and as everyone deserves, but I have an issue with being called a bigot because I don't agree.
.....
Mostly people are just upset that gays want to call themselve married, what's wrong with civil union you get the exact same benifits which is the goal (is it not) but no it has to be more along with what seems the forcing of gays acceptance

I totally agree! Just because I think I deserve special legal rights and privileges which should be denied to Blacks, that doesn't make me a greedy bigot!

Why do Blacks insist on marriage instead of civil unions? Why can't they simply accept that they're 2nd-class citizens who should use a different drinking fountain from us good white folks?

Erin

We liberals do not have a problem with right and wrong, or morality;

True. Liberals don't care about right or wrong, moral or inmoral , this is why liberals are taking this country down.

I love how so many of Sarah's comments got collapsed.......apparently the dumb bigots are really insecure and Sarah struck a nerve.

True. Liberals don't care about right or wrong, moral or inmoral , this is why liberals are taking this country down.

Tsk tsk, what a sad attempt to twist someone's words. Of course, to be expected when you don't have anything else to stand on.

I KNOW, RIGHT, allswell? Redvirginia blatantly misquoted me -- and THAT shows the true colors of the conservaturd.

Way back at #1.83, Jerry-1927474 said he'd never move to CA or OR, & that WA had just been added to his list. Then: "Stupid is as stupid does" and "There is a cure for ignorance but stupidity is terminal".

Sorry to hear that, Jerry. I hope folks send lots of dead flowers to your funeral.

True. Liberals don't care about right or wrong, moral or inmoral , this is why liberals are taking this country down.

Tsk tsk, what a sad attempt to twist someone's words. Redvirginia blatantly misquoted me -- and THAT shows the true colors of the conservaturd.

Erin

Those are your words, no misquote no twist, you speak your mind, it came out from your mouth , sorry if you are a liberetarded. :)

Those are your words, no misquote no twist, you speak your mind, it came out from your mouth , sorry if you are a liberetarded. :)

Except that its a contextual misquote. I don't expect you to know the difference.

Pot smoking is OK but the tobacco industry is being attacked everyday which is WRONG

Eh, I'm going to go out on a limb, but that might be because tobacco is the number one cause of a cancer that kills more people in the U.S. than any other cancer, while pot doesn't have a net carcinogenic effect.

Randy, may I point out you may need a remedial course in Bible Study. Isiah 1: 10-17 reads as follows:

10 Hear the word of the Lord, you rulers of Sodom!
Listen to the teaching of our God, you people of Gomorrah!
11 What to me is the multitude of your sacrifices? says the Lord;
I have had enough of burnt-offerings of rams and the fat of fed beasts;
I do not delight in the blood of bulls, or of lambs, or of goats.

12 When you come to appear before me,*who asked this from your hand?
Trample my courts no more;
13 bringing offerings is futile;
incense is an abomination to me.
New moon and sabbath and calling of convocation—
I cannot endure solemn assemblies with iniquity.
14 Your new moons and your appointed festivals my soul hates;
they have become a burden to me, I am weary of bearing them.

15 When you stretch out your hands, I will hide my eyes from you;
even though you make many prayers, I will not listen;
your hands are full of blood.

16 Wash yourselves; make yourselves clean;
remove the evil of your doings from before my eyes;
cease to do evil,
17 learn to do good; seek justice, rescue the oppressed, defend the orphan, plead for the widow

Where are gays mentioned? The "god" of Abraham destroyed both cities because they failed to care for the less fortunate. Not because they were having any form of sex.

Ezekiel 16: 49 - This was the guilt of your sister Sodom: she and her daughters had pride, excess of food, and prosperous ease, but did not aid the poor and needy.

@ Michael Chambers

if you look up the word Marrage and take it back to it's latin Roots you can find the word comes from the Masculin form of Husband(Man) and Feminin form of Wife(Woman) full translation of the word means "The union of Husband and Wife" meaning it was never ment to be two men or two women, it means one man and one woman together, and I'm not speaking from a Religous standpoint, this is the meaning of a work being contradicted by this new law.

I did what you suggested and looked up "the word marrage". There were no results.

In any case, the term "marriage does not come from both husband and wife. "Marriage" comes from solely the latin for husband (maritus) and matrimony comes from the latin for wife (mater). Interestingly, "wedlock" (a germanic word) derives from old english (wedlac) meaning a pledge, or promise, between 2 people.

In short, anybody suggesting that the bible is the only reference point for what marriage means, or that it doesn't exist other than in a christian sense, has no basis in real fact.

Note: Richod removed their account. If they parachute to another one, suspension will transfer.

That's a very odd tactic for someone to take.

We liberals do not have a problem with right and wrong, or morality; what we have a problem with is conservaturds like you who bring down the curve for everyone.

THOSE are the words I used, redvirginia. That makes you not only inaccurate, but a liar.

True. Liberals don't care about right or wrong, moral or inmoral , this is why liberals are taking this country down.

Tsk tsk, what a sad attempt to twist someone's words. Redvirginia blatantly misquoted me -- and THAT shows the true colors of the conservaturd.

Erin

Those are your words, no misquote no twist, you speak your mind, it came out from your mouth , sorry if you are a liberetarded. :)

So you have proven yourself to be nothing more than a conservaturd and a conservatard.

Tyler - is that/are you really the rule? Cool - I've never heard of this/seen this happen before, but I like it!

Is "predictive trolling" real, too? Cool.

Bible quoters:

1. What difference does it make what the bible says about marriage in regards to whether Washington state legally allows men to "marry" men in order to give them the same legal rights as men who "marry" women?

2. Picking and choosing specific quotes from the bible is a dangerous path. For every quote you find in favor of something you stand for, I'm sure it's possible to find one you DON'T stand for.

Crime double in one year because of this legalization.

More Fear mongering, I don't know where you got your information, but

http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/cacrime.htm

Weed was legalized in CA in 1996 for medical usage. There were no spikes in crime anywhere until 2000 to 2002. Crime rates stayed steady and even dropped in some categories. Between 2000 and 2002 there was a spike in Burglaries, but all other crime categories remain relatively level. And that spike dropped loweer than it had previously been. Property damage saw the deepest decline the first 2 years after it was legalized, but it had been dropping since a peak in 1990.

AndresTM,

Sorry to burst your bubble but the tar content in one joint is about the same as 5 cigs. When they quote stats on cancer from cigs, it takes into consideration everyone that smokes not just people smoking cigs.

Also, this will be interesting in the long-term to see the impact on lawsuits. Because the US loves suing each other this will be great to see when people start working beside others the stink of marjuana smell and they can sue for a hostile work environment.

Did you also know there was a study in the UK that tested individuals smoking marjuana like cigs, which this law will allow them to do even not in public, that when behind the wheel of a car the person was in 3 times more accidents. Imagine now a person can not be told to go home when stoned and using heavy equipment like a crane lifting steel rods to a building in downtown. Like to see the little ants below run for cover when the rods start falling. If an employer tries to discipline now they can be sued bigtime by the pot smoker - gotta love this as we can get rich faster :)

Morality is subjective, so YOUR so-called "morals" are not everyone's morals.

Coming from someone with no morals or ethics your stance has no substance. Post Modern thinking that everything is a shade of gray is bring this country down. You are a perfect example. You would rather make fun or attempt to make fun of someone by using catch phrases like "conservaturds" but you bring no value to the conversation.

BTW, have you ever had a blow job? Congratulations -- you're a sodomite, too!

That is incorrect since I get my head from women not men.

In addition, same-sex marriage was legal in quite a few ancient civilizations, and our own Native Americans also performed them.

And your point is ???

Since you advocate a lawless society lets make murder by gunshot to the head, legal too. Fact is every single person in the world including everyone on this site will be dead in the next 110 years. Since everyone dies and Liberals condone the killing of children in the womb lets take it one step further and legalize murder. Its a quick and painless way to die. **rolls eyes**

Can't be morally wrong to take a life, since that life will end no matter what.

WRONG. Marriage has existed since ancient times

religion did not involve itself in marriage until around the mid-1500s.

which is it??? So christian and Islam didn't exist until mid 1500s ???

Although you should realize that homosexuals CAN and DO procreate.

Since when can a man get pregnant? I guess you flunked basic sex education too LOL

I truly feel sorry for you.

Hey Fiesty might look at Genesis 19 the men wanted the angels for a gang rape sounds like homosexual activity.

Monkeybones,

This is from a review of the research on the harmful effects of marijuana smoking:

"One reason the authors provide to explain the delivery of greater tar to the
lungs is that unlike tobacco cigarettes, marijuana cigarettes do not have
filters. Also, they report that the increased carboxy hemoglobin levels are a
result of the manner of smoking rather than the carbon monoxide content of the
substances. This is very interesting in a public health context, because these
factors can be addressed by changes in smoking techniques. Other factors that
contribute to the differences in the tar and gas content is the density of the
cigarettes. Tobacco cigarettes are tightly packed, providing more filtration.
Marijuana cigarettes are comparatively loosely packed, and provide more complete
combustion of the smoking material."

As it states, many of the things which make marijuana lead to more tar can be addressed by a change in smoking techniques. Furthermore, unlike cigarettes -- people do not often smoke as regularly as cigarettes and there are methods that don't require the direct inhalation of smoke or even combustion of marijuana for effects. Not to mention, the simple addition of filters and proper packing techniques (which would be more likely to occur if it was truly legalized) would provide huge differences.

As for your second point about marijuana usage and accidents.. Did you know that people are not allowed to drink and drive by law? Did you also know that they are not allowed to operate heavy machinery while under the influence of alcohol? Did you know you can be fired for coming to work drunk? Why exactly would we assume laws would be different for marijuana if it were to be legalized? (Also, on a side note, a recent study showed that people are actually less likely to get in accidents under the influence of marijuana than alcohol. Again, not saying people should smoke and drive. But I just find your example interesting when alcohol is a legal substance.)

Did you know that a large portion people don't know that marijuana can negatively affect one's driving? Do you know why? Because the "war on drugs" doesn't teach these things. Rather, we just tell everybody drugs are bad and don't do it. The legalization of marijuana would allow not only for safer (not necessarily safe, but safer) methods of inhalation and laws and awareness campaigns on the negative effects of marijuana smoking on driving. Not seeing a problem here with that -- especially given that cigarettes and alcohol are legal. And given that some stats show that 80% of people have tried marijuana and a large percentage use it relatively regularly. So -- in sum, the war on drugs has done little to slow the use of marijuana, has made it difficult to teach people "responsible" use of the drug, has prevented the creation of good techniques for testing whether one is under the influence of marijuana, has indirectly increased the growth of drug cartels, has wasted millions if not billions of tax payer dollars on the incarceration of users, etc.

The thing that always gets me about these laws and policies is that NO matter how much evidence accrues that they are not helping or making things worse (think abstinence-only education), people will still stick to them as if their lives depend on it. It defies logic and reason.

Since you advocate a lawless society lets make murder by gunshot to the head, legal too. Fact is every single person in the world including everyone on this site will be dead in the next 110 years. Since everyone dies and Liberals condone the killing of children in the womb lets take it one step further and legalize murder. Its a quick and painless way to die. **rolls eyes**

Can't be morally wrong to take a life, since that life will end no matter what.

An interesting argument coming from someone who (and I am assuming a bit here) probably agrees with the death penalty.

@redvirginia

Be a liberal don't make you Smarter. Typical liberetarded, always pretend to be smarter than the others.

It's not difficult with comments like "Be a liberal don't make you smarter". I think you mean "being" and "doesn't"?

Randy,

I tend to agree with you regarding Obamacare, misguided hatred from poorer people, debt levels, etc.

However I don't really find any substance in your "morality" argument and biblical argument. Like I said before in an earlier post, I'm sure for everything you "quote" from the bible to prove something you stand for should be law, there is probably something easily found that is AGAINST something you believe should be law.

I agree with you that there needs to be morals in laws (or at least some laws - see murder) but the next question is - whose morals? Your morals? an old book's morals? THAT is what is up for debate. AND, when it is decided by the people (see Washington state) that something IS okay, you don't think that it should be okay?

The problem here (in my opinion) is not whether you think it is right or not, and not even if God himself came down and said it's right or not. It's really just HOW ELSE WOULD YOU REALISTICALLY RUN A COUNTRY?

If you're taking God's side on this, He'd probably also tell you that he is the judge, not you, remember? And that He will do whatever he wants with people who are agsint whatever he says. If you believe he is real/right, just follow his rules and you'll be all set!

Coming from someone with no morals or ethics your stance has no substance.

Since you know nothing about my morals and ethics -- which I, unlike you, do possess in abundance -- your claim is laughable at best.

You would rather make fun or attempt to make fun of someone by using catch phrases like "conservaturds" but you bring no value to the conversation.

On the contrary, intelligent people find much value in what I have to say. That you find no value in it speaks to your own numerous deficiencies.

That is incorrect since I get my head from women not men.

WRONG. Read a dictionary some time.

sod·om·y

[sod-uh-mee] Show IPA
noun >1. anal or oral copulation a member of opposite sex.

2. copulation with a member of the same sex

3. bestiality (def 4)

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/sodomy?s=t

YOU were the one insisted that "marriage is biblical in nature," and I refuted your claim.

Since you advocate a lawless society lets make murder by gunshot to the head, legal too.

Where did I say that I favor a "lawless society"? Nations need laws to protect the rights of the minority, which bigots (like you) would try to deny to them.

Liberals condone the killing of children in the womb lets take it one step further and legalize murder.

We do not condone the killing of children. However, there are no "children" in wombs; there are only embryos or fetuses in wombs. Abortion is not murder; that is the law; deal with it. **rolls eyes**

which is it??? So christian and Islam didn't exist until mid 1500s ???

Where did I say that Christianity and Islam (or any other religion) did not exist until the mid-1500s? Seriously, your reading comprehension skills are non-existent.

Since when can a man get pregnant? I guess you flunked basic sex education too LOL

No, but apparently YOU did. Where did I say that same-sex couples can reproduce? My exact words were that "homosexuals CAN and DO reproduce" -- which is the truth. Again: get some reading comprehension skills. You are not helping yourself; you only make us laugh that much harder at how pathetic you and your ilk are.

I truly feel sorry for you.

You would accomplish much more by feeling sorry for yourself, because there is so much to pity.

Monkeybones-

Hate to burst your bubble (actually I don't) but regarding the tar content- that is completely nullified if you use a vaporizer, or if you cook with it.

Secondly, your auto accident information is so horribly incorrect it isn't even funny. How about you provide a link to make it look like you are trying to support your fear mongering, or not put blatant ignorance online at all?

http://www.prweb.com/releases/2012/4/prweb9375729.htm

http://druglibrary.org/schaffer/misc/driving/driving.htm

Sarah, don't pay any attention to these hate mongers. They don't seem to understand basic English. Their motives are clear and their handicaps are evident. Keep on being you, the you that is anti-hate and anti-zealotry. These folks that are bashing you don't understand that homosexuality has been around since the dawn of man and is completely rampant in all of the animal kingdom. It's natural and it will never be weeded out like eugenecists would like to imagine

We do not condone the killing of children. However, there are no "children" in wombs; there are only embryos or fetuses in wombs. Abortion is not murder; that is the law; deal with it. **rolls eyes**

Life begins at conception(backed by science) your lack of morals/ justification of killing unborn children saying an embryo or fetus isn't a person when it is.

Perfect example why morals aren't fluid or shades of gray.

Death penalty should be done like the old west with a public hanging to enforce the laws and why not to break them. Its sad when a death row inmate gains 250 lbs and can't be executed by lethal injection due to no veins. Guess they should start using the gas chamber.

Life has consequences but Liberals don't understand such a thing.

A living, parasitic organism begins at conception, but it is not a human, it is an embryo or fetus, ergo abortion -- the medical procedure to remove the fetus -- is not murder.

THAT is backed by science. THAT is why abortion is a legal, medical procedure.

And THAT is a perfect example of why morality is subjective, and is not legislated.

You can justify you mind all you want but the FACT is once the egg attaches to the mother its a living person.

Planned Parenthood’s request to block a provision of an Indiana law that requires doctors to tell women who are seeking abortions that “human physical life begins when a human ovum is fertilized by a human sperm,” was denied by U.S. District Judge Tanya Walton Pratt last week.

Planned Parenthood of Indiana (PPIN) had also sought an injunction against another part of the same law, House Enrolled Act (HEA) 1210, which barred federal Medicaid funds from going to the abortion provider. Pratt granted that request, noting that the Obama administration had threatened to gut the state’s entire Medicaid allotment to save PPIN’s portion.

Obama strong arming his power isn't good law

Science has quite clearly and decidedly proven that a new, human life begins at conception (i.e. fertilization. AKA the moment sperm and ovum meet and form an entirely new, self-directing living organism of the human species with its own individual DNA distinct from both mother and father.

Smoking pot is legal now too doesn't mean its good for you. Alcohol is legal too and see how many people die from that.

So when is a baby considered human in your terms??? at 9 months ??

It is not legally a "baby" or a "person" until it emerges from the womb and draws its first unaided breath. In fact, there are some states that consider babies who emerge, breathe unaided, and die within the first days (or even week) of existence to be stillbirths.

In the first place, you are not quoting anything that supports your claims. The article about PP does not state that any medical experts have agreed that a human exists at conception; it is merely you posting a slur against Obama and PP.

The second quote is merely opinion from someone's blog; it is hardly reliable, credible, unbiased evidence.

BTW, posting quotes without referencing their sources is plagiarism, and can get you banned from Newsvine (and other forums).

wow I feel sorry for you I guess we shouldn't save premature babies and just throw them in the trash as a thing or lump of flesh.

Typical Liberal thinking or lack there of. I hope you never have a child so you can't twist his/her thinking.

I put the quotes as a quote thus not plagiarism since I am not claiming those to be my words. nice try

Sorry to burst your bubble but the tar content in one joint is about the same as 5 cigs.

Well, gee, if only there were a way to get THC into my system without inhaling all the tar. Like a sophisticated glass device or something that used the powers of water to filter out all the bad stuff :)

Precisely thanks to legalization, people will rely less on joints and more on said "devices" that effectively address your tar-related concerns.

When they quote stats on cancer from cigs, it takes into consideration everyone that smokes not just people smoking cigs.

Wrong. Many of the carcinogens present in cigarette smoke specifically come from the combustion process of nicotine. Which is probably why, while the correlation between tobacco smoking and lung cancer has been so incontrovertibly established, no such relation has been established between cannabis smoking and lung cancer. In fact, studies that have directly compared, in parallel, heavy cannabis smoking and heavy tobacco smoking, have found that the former does not cause an increased risk of lung cancer and the latter does, oh so very much. This might be due to the fact that THC is widely suspected to have anti-cancer properties, which might cancel out the carcinogenic effect of the tar agents.

Did you also know there was a study in the UK that tested individuals smoking marjuana like cigs, which this law will allow them to do even not in public, that when behind the wheel of a car the person was in 3 times more accidents. Imagine now a person can not be told to go home when stoned and using heavy equipment like a crane lifting steel rods to a building in downtown.

The same can be said about alcohol. Why haven't we outlawed alcohol again? I don't even need a study to know it impairs my driving abilities.

Randy,

Sorry, but science has not proven life begins at conception. At least not the way you are defining life. In fact, at conception, the fetus does not even have a nervous system. At that point, it is less advanced than a plant.

Pro-choicers do not want to "kill babies" and claims like that are little more than demonizing the opposition. Pro-choice individuals believe that a person's decisions over their own body is a fundamental freedom. Thus, a woman should have the ability make a decision over her own body. Many pro-choicers recognize that the fetus is a potential life, but also recognize that a living, breathing conscious being is not free if they can not make decisions about their own body. And the question then becomes when those two things are in conflict, whose side does one come down on? Pro-choicers come down on the side of the living breathing conscious human being -- believing that a woman's freedom over her own body supercedes the rights of fetus who is not conscious and could not survive without the woman's body. Pro-lifers come down on the side of the fetus -- believing that it has a right to life more than a woman has a right to her own body.

Pretending that it is as simple as "Pro-choicers just want to kill babies!" is as disingenuous as saying "Pro-choicers just hate women!" It's a difficult issue with two valid sides. And there is no clear cut morally right side (no matter how self-righteous people on both sides of the debate get).

In the end, given that it is such a difficult issue, given that there is no clear cut answers I believe that the choice should lie with the woman who is involved in the situation, rather than the electorate. Of course, people disagree with me and that's fine. But let's stop with hurling accusations about baby-killing. It's tired, it's old, and it's just demonizing people. If you can't recognize that there are two sides to this debate (even if you strongly believe in one side of it), all it suggests is that you have refused to think critically about the issue.

I hope you never have a child so you can't twist his/her thinking.

Actually, I have three; I gave birth to them, and it was MY CHOICE to get pregnant, and to carry those pregnancies to term.

BTW, you and your ilk are hardly "pro-life," as Siobhan kindly refers to you; you are only "pro-birth," since you care nothing about what happens to those babies (because that's what they are, once they are born) after they come out of the womb.

I put the quotes as a quote thus not plagiarism since I am not claiming those to be my words. nice try

But you did not give proper credit to the origin of those words -- that's PLAGIARISM. And it violates the Newsvine CoH.

1. Plagiarism and copyright infringement will not be tolerated. If you did not write something, do not portray it as your own (use the "blockquote" tag and cite your source by linking to the original content). If you do not have the right to republish the content in question, do not post it to Newsvine.

http://www.newsvine.com/_nv/cms/info/codeOfHonor

I took an extreme stance that life begins at conception and it does.

The other question is, is that life developed enough to have a mind , to which I say at approx 10 weeks +/- 1 week the brain is developed enough.

Your idea of life is after birth I consider life starts at conception and becomes a human at 10 weeks. You on the other hand would allow a woman to abort up to 9 months which is horrid and IMO murder.

People aren't taking responsibility for their actions as you seemed to have done with your 3 children but using abortion as a contraceptive is wrong.

since you care nothing about what happens to those babies (because that's what they are, once they are born) after they come out of the womb.

Kinda funny you mention that Google anna's house foundation.org which I help fund and got off the ground several years ago that helps babies and toddlers.

Difference is I cherish life long before its born where a liberal like you only cares if it can survive the birthing process. Enjoy your right to choose over the rights of the unborn, hope you sleep well.

I took an extreme stance that life begins at conception and it does.

Yet you've provided not a shred of supporting evidence, merely a single judge's opinion on a case that doesn't actually determine when life begins.

Under the US law via Roe v Wade, life begins at viability for purposes of abortion. We already know when viability begins, and it is not at 10 weeks.

Difference is I cherish life long before its born where a liberal like you only cares if it can survive the birthing process. Enjoy your right to choose over the rights of the unborn, hope you sleep well.

Difference is we (to include moderates) logically understand that someone who is unborn is: A) not a citizen subject to the Constitution (birth is a requirement of citizenship), B) not guaranteed to survive birth, and C) of no greater value in its life than that of the woman carrying it.

Go look at the recent incident in Ireland and come back and try again.

Psalms 1The foolA says in his heart, "There is no God."

They are corrupt, their deeds are vile; there is no one who does good.

2The LORD looks down from heaven on the sons of men to see if there are any who understand, any who seek God.

James: 8Come near to God and he will come near to you. Wash your hands, you sinners, and purify your hearts, you double-minded. 9Grieve, mourn and wail. Change your laughter to mourning and your joy to gloom. 10Humble yourselves before the Lord, and he will lift you up.

I took an extreme stance that life begins at conception and it does.

Then don't have an abortion. No one is forcing you to.

Psalms 1The foolA says in his heart, "There is no God."

That you continue to use your own holy book as proof of your holy book's contention is hilarious.

You on the other hand would allow a woman to abort up to 9 months which is horrid and IMO murder.

While YOU, like any other half-witted conservative, seem to enjoy condemning people for things never said by them -- where did I state that I support abortions up to the 9th month of pregnancy? The discussion was about whether human life begins at conception (which is a complete derail of this thread, BTW -- and we have YOU to "thank" for that). I say that viable, human life does not begin at conception, which is supported by the vast majority of scientific data and research available.

People aren't taking responsibility for their actions as you seemed to have done with your 3 children but using abortion as a contraceptive is wrong.

I would agree that using abortion as contraception is wrong, but it's not up to me -- OR YOU -- to make that decision for another woman. That is what "pro-choice" means: that CHOICE is up to the woman who has to make that CHOICE, and her reasons are her own. Unless YOU want to help raise all of the babies that are born because that CHOICE is taken away from women, then STFU.

FYI, more than half of the women who have abortions give the reason for doing so as contraceptive failure -- so that means that a) they never intended to get pregnant in the first place; and b) the majority of women DO NOT view abortion as a contraceptive.

Difference is I cherish life long before its born where a liberal like you only cares if it can survive the birthing process. Enjoy your right to choose over the rights of the unborn, hope you sleep well.

You have no idea what I "cherish" or "care about". I am pro-choice; that does not mean I am pro-abortion. In fact, I can say with absolute certainty that no one who is pro-choice is pro-abortion -- but then, you people who call yourselves "pro-life" are certainly not that, as I have stated before. I don't care what "foundations" you claim to have funded and helped to set up; anyone can make such claims, especially on an Internet discussion forum. The fact is that YOU are not out there raising those children that you would force women to have. You're just another so-called "human being" with that conservative disease that makes you think it's perfectly all right to tell others how to live their lives -- all because YOU say that's the way we should live.

BTW, legally, the unborn HAVE no rights; all of the rights are vested in the living, breathing woman, not some nebulous group of cells that may or may not survive to become a human being (because it's certainly not a human being until the point of viability).

I do sleep well, because I make it a point to ensure that conservatards like you can't ruin the lives of other people.

allswell

[16] For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth;

You live in a word without hope. That is your choice. Remimber, Jesus loves you. When you need him call on his name for the Lord is RICH to everyone who calls upon him.

You live in a word without hope.

Speak for yourself. I have a more optimistic view of the world, and not so doom and gloom. Besides, we make our own hope.

That is your choice.

If there was a god, there would be no such thing as "choice."

When you need him call on his name for the Lord is RICH to everyone who calls upon him.

Since i don't need him, Jesus will save quite a bit on me then.

Psalms 1The foolA says in his heart, "There is no God."

The wise man says: "Show me the proof!"

I took an extreme stance that life begins at conception and it does.

A lifeform. But not yet human life!

You live in a word without hope.

Nah, I've plenty of that. My hope is that the next Aeon comes to pass and this religious idiocy will fade to true reasoning.

That is your choice. Remimber, Jesus loves you.

Remember, Thor wields a hammer, Jesus was nailed to a cross.

gordy327

God is not like you think he is. He has provided his word for you. You can reject it or accept it. Your choice.

Satan rules over his own without giving them a choice. If you live with someone, don’t you want that person to want to be with you. To love you and want the best for you. Love is a choice and God gives you the choice to love him or not. Satan lost his place in Heaven by trying to overthrow God. He has not changed. When the Anti Christ comes, the lawless one, he will set himself up in the Temple of God and proclaim himself as God. Satan does not want you to replace him and his group in heaven. So he blinds men’s eyes to who God is. Satan is the God of this word and every bad thing that happens comes from him. Every thing good comes from God. If you take a step towards God he will take steps towards you.

I took an extreme stance tha tlife begins at conception

You're perfectly within your right to take that stance- but since the law outlines what is allowed NOT you, your stance doesn't matter in the slightest. YOUR morals do not equal EVERYONE ELSE'S morals. Guess what? I'm willing to bet this world would get along just fine without you mandating everyone live how you think they should live.

Erin blasted you pretty well for plagiarism, perhaps you can actually post links to those scientific articles that you claim 'back' human life beginning at conception. If you can't- then don't bother posting any more drivel about it, because it's a baseless claim.

If you want to be as technical as you are failing to attempt to be, life doesn't 'begin' at fertilization. The semen and ovum both have living cells that upon fusion, develop into more- but they are already 'alive'. There is no 'creation of life', there is simply development from a combination of two living things.

You can justify you mind all you want but the FACT is

Proof to back up your baseless claim? YOU don't decide what a 'fact' is.

Adolf Hitler was the leader of Germany and as such made his own laws. Nazis burned books and made their own truth. Propaganda was their tool.

Hitler made the laws and killed millions. Still there were those who knew he was wrong and kept quite. Others chose to ignore what they knew was wrong for the benefits. Everyone knows in their heart it is not right to kill another human being. Yet, there are those who ignore their heart and convince themselves it is okay.

Everyone knows in their heart it is not right to kill another human being.

That's correct -- and abortion has nothing to do with killing another human being.

YOU can tell yourself whatever you choose, but that does not apply to the rest of us, who live in the real world.

ErinNJ

Your choice, life is precious or what ever is for my convenience.

It sounds like you have been involved in abortion. Is that the real world you are talking about?

It sounds like you have been involved in abortion. Is that the real world you are talking about?

If you'd read the series you'd see she has already stated she's had three children, no mention of ever having an abortion.

And that is common of those of us who support pro-choice: while most of us would choose not to have an abortion, we still want the choice.

Yes Joe, and those people would be the one's that think the death penalty is fine and dandy. I don't.

John 3: [16] For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. [17] For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. [18] He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. [19] And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. [20] For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. [21] But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

@Joe You realize that the bible supported the use of aborticants in certain situations? Actually mandated it.

Numbers 5:12-28: if a man suspects his wife to be pregnant by someone else, he can take her to
the priest who will prescribe the "bitter water" (the known abortifacient
produced by combining pennyroyal with black cohosh)

There is a marked distinction between killing a fetus and killing a person.

Exodus 21:12

Whoever strikes a person mortally shall be put to death. If it was not premeditated, but came about by an act of God, then I will appoint for you a place to which the killer may flee.

Exodus 21:22 reads:

When people who are fighting injure a pregnant woman so that there is a miscarriage, and yet no further harm follows, the one responsible shall be fined what the woman's husband demands, paying as much as the judges determine.

Too bad for christo-bigots like you, Joe, that the bible does not make our laws -- and that includes the ones regarding homosexuality, too.

ErinNJ

Look who is doing the name calling. I know you don't like it but all I can say is you will have to answer for your life just like all of us. Mercy is better than justice.

John 16: 7 Unless I go away, the Counselor will not come to you; but if I go, I will send him to you. 8When he comes, he will convict the world of guiltA in regard to sin and righteousness and judgment: 9in regard to sin, because men do not believe in me; 10in regard to righteousness, because I am going to the Father, where you can see me no longer; 11and in regard to judgment, because the prince of this world now stands condemned

God is not like you think he is.

Whta? A figment of man's collective imagination? A fairy tale? A delusion? Yeah, it seems god exactly what he seems.

. He has provided his word for you.

And that should be accepted at face value, why? because he said so? Talk about guillable.

You can reject it or accept it. Your choice.

If there was a god, there would be no such thing as choice.

Love is a choice and God gives you the choice to love him or not.

Love is an emotion and a chemical reaction within the brain.

So he blinds men’s eyes to who God is.

All the while your gods sits back and does nothing about it. Some god!

Every thing good comes from God.

So natural disasters are "good?" God has a stange idea of good.

If you take a step towards God he will take steps towards you.

Prove there's a god first!

It sounds like you have been involved in abortion. Is that the real world you are talking about?

Only in discussions such as these. And in the real world, abortion is a valid, legal medical procedure and choice! It's also no one elses buisiness!

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son,

What a horrid and macabre story!

gordy327

Revelations 12: 7And there was war in heaven. Michael and his angels fought against the dragon, and the dragon and his angels fought back. 8But he was not strong enough, and they lost their place in heaven. 9The great dragon was hurled down--that ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, who leads the whole world astray. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him.

Wire,

Important enough to keep you commenting about me though, huh?

Yay! Time out's over.

Revelations 12: 7And there was war in heaven.

Your dogmatic tripe doesn't actually answer or address anything and only shows the weakness of your arguments! It does make for entertaining fairy tales though.

www.ehow.com/about_5072485_stage-fetus-begin-kick-move.html

1. Early Fetal Movement (Weeks 7-12)

   • The fetus first begins to move around the seventh week of pregnancy, shortly after its heart begins to beat. While a mother cannot detect this movement---the fetus is technically still an embryo at this point, only measuring about a half-inch long---she will be able to see it waving its tiny arm buds and kicking its legs via ultrasound.

   Movement in Early Second Trimester (Weeks 13-20)

   • 1. The first fetal movements the mother can feel are called "quickening." Many first-time mothers will not realize when quickening occurs, as early fetal movements often feel like the rumbling of gas. Different women describe the sensation of the baby's moving in different ways. According to Baby Center, some women say it feels like popcorn popping, fluttering butterfly wings or a goldfish swimming.

   Fetal Movement in Late Second Trimester (Weeks 21-27)

   • As the baby grows, its movement will becomes stronger and more definite. During the late second trimester, most women will feel kicks and punches, as well as squirming and rolling. The woman's partner may be able to feel some of this movement when touching the belly. In some cases, the movement may be so strong that it can be seen from the outside: The mom-to-be's belly will jump and roll as the baby does.

   Fetal Movement in the Early Third Trimester (Weeks 28-32)

   • By the start of the third trimester, most moms can feel their baby kicking regularly (although not necessarily frequently). At this time, a woman should begin to keep track of her baby's movements by counting the baby's kicks. This exercise can help the mother become aware of any unusual decrease in activity and identify a potential problem. According to the American Pregnancy Association, the mom should do "kick counts" at the same time every day, preferably at a time when the baby is typically active. The mother should count at least 10 kicks within two hours.

   Fetal Movement in Late Third Trimester (32-40 Weeks)

   • By around 32 weeks, the mother may start to feel fewer movements, because the baby has grown so much that it has less room to move in the uterus. She should continue doing her kick counts and report to her doctor any substantially decreased activity.

I guess even with enough brain and nervous system developed to kick and move @ 10 weeks its just an annoyance to Erin and if she "felt" like it, to kill that thing growing in her and wouldn't think twice.

So, Randy where is the scientific evidence that life begins at conception? Interesting that you claim this evidence exists, but when asked for it the earliest thing you provide is 7 - 12 weeks.

And again, it doesn't change the fact that it is not a human being. It is a mass of cells that responds to stimuli (plants can do to that too). Yes, it may potentially develop fully to become a human being (and it may not). But, in the end pro-choice individuals believe that a conscious human being's rights to their own body supercede the right to life of a nonconscious potential human being. You disagree and that's your perogative. But stop with the tired emotional attacks. It's not constructive and it's the refuge of someone who can't make a real argument.

I guess even with enough brain and nervous system developed to kick and move @ 10 weeks its

still just a non-viable fetus.

You mean in between your suspensions from Newsvine?

Obviously yes, because here we are three days later and you're STILL talking about me.

Lol... (See I can STILL do THAT too)

Can't believe I have to educate morons online that life begins at conception wow liberals are stupid when it comes to facts.

Erin blasted you pretty well for plagiarism,

When I put something in QUOTES and not claiming to be my words isn't plagiarism, seems you don't know what that word means. Get an education.

perhaps you can actually post links to those scientific articles that you claim 'back' human life beginning at conception. If you can't- then don't bother posting any more drivel about it, because it's a baseless claim.

LMAO baseless claim , I guess common sense and lack of education is in order but if it will make you happy since your Google finger is as broke as your mind here ya go son.

prolifephysicians.org/lifebegins.htm

According to this elementary definition of life, life begins at fertilization, when a sperm unites with an oocyte. From this moment, the being is highly organized, has the ability to acquire materials and energy, has the ability to respond to his or her environment, has the ability to adapt, and has the ability to reproduce (the cells divide, then divide again, etc., and barring pathology and pending reproductive maturity has the potential to reproduce other members of the species). Non-living things do not do these things. Even before the mother is aware that she is pregnant, a distinct, unique life has begun his or her existence inside her.

-----------------------------

Lets do links instead of taking up alot of room on this server

www.princeton.edu/~prolife/articles/embryoquotes2.html

www.naapc.org/why-life-begins-at-conception

fallibleblogma.com/index.php/when-does-science-say-human-life-begins/

I could post 100 more but Princeton Univ. and NAAPC should be good enough for you liberals

So you are using the biological definition of "being alive" versus the psychological definition of "having life".

Explains a lot. Yet, still, it is a parasitic organism that is nonviable until it achieves certain independent functions.

ROFLMAO! I can't believe how gullible you conservatard imbeciles are. Quoting from a pro-life physicians' group, as well as from pro-life blogs, are hardly reliable, unbiased sources!

"What I'm concerned with is how you develop", he says. "I know that you all think about it perpetually that you come from one single cell of a fertilized egg. I don't want to get involved in religion but that is not a human being. I've spoken to these eggs many times and they make it quite clear ... they are not a human being. The cells divide and the question I'm going to deal with a little bit here...how do the cells know what to do. So, how do they end up looking like ... you? It is amazing that you come from one single cell. I'm sorry to give you a lesson in embryology but you should know how you develop."

LEWIS WOLPERT is Professor of Biology as Applied to Medicine in the Department of Anatomy and Developmental Biology of University College, London. His research interests are in the mechanisms involved in the development of the embryo. He has presented science on both radio and TV for five years, was Chairman of the Committee for the Public Understanding of Science. His last book is Six Impossible Things To Do Before Breakfast.

http://www.edge.org/3rd_culture/serpentine-edge09/wolpert_vid.html

Good thing we liberals are much better-educated than you conservatards.

if you bothered to read I posted links to Princeton and NAACP

here ya go

www.princeton.edu/~prolife/articles/embryoquotes2.html

www.naapc.org/why-life-begins-at-conception

Randy, you are only proving the point that there is a life a fertilization -- you have not proven that it is a human being. None of those "studies" or quotes prove that a zygote/embryo/fetus is a viable human being from the point of conception, as I have stated. If you bothered to develop some reading comprehension skills, you would get that.

The bottom line: abortion is legal; women have all the rights; fetuses have none, because they are not "persons". Deal with it.

Furthermore, this whole thread is a derail of the topic under discussion. Stick to the topic, which is the legalization of marijuana and gay marriage in Washington State.

And you, Randy, ignored my post regarding the difference between the biological definition of life and the psychological definition of life (as it relates to humans).

let me repost this for you

According to this elementary definition of life, life begins at fertilization, when a sperm unites with an oocyte. From this moment, the being is highly organized, has the ability to acquire materials and energy, has the ability to respond to his or her environment, has the ability to adapt, and has the ability to reproduce (the cells divide, then divide again, etc., and barring pathology and pending reproductive maturity has the potential to reproduce other members of the species). Non-living things do not do these things.

You can justify the killing of a future child all you want but facts are facts a human starts at conception. Its sad that a mother of 3 children would even consider that a baby in the womb that isn't born is not a human being until it is born and takes its first breath. Hey Erin look at your children and imagine one is GONE because you made a choice that he or she was not worth bring to term. That is sad and very cold blooded IMO.

If you can sleep at night knowing your twisted stance then fine. I for one don't support using abortion as birth control.

wow stupid newsvine timed out

back on subject

I find it interesting that the gov't will require tobacco companies to put nasty pics on the packs to deter smoking but will allow people to smoke a substance that is 5 times more harmful than tobacco??

I guess Philips Morris and RJ Reynolds will make even more profits if they switch to pot.

$10 a pack vs $100 a pack and costs about the same to make. no brainer there.

Guess the gov't can tax the crap out of it too and help fund the over spending.

Randy,

No research shows that pot is more 5x more harmful than cigarettes. Some studies have suggested that smoking pot can lead to 5x more tar being taken into the lungs than a cigarette, but that is only under very specific conditions -- when it is smoked in a joint without a filter. With a filter and better packing, the amount of tar intake would probably be equivalent of that cigarettes. And by using other methods, such as cooking the pot or vaporizing it, that would mean zero tar intake.

If you can't read and understand something as straight forward as that research, I can't imagine you have fully read and understand the research on a much more complicated issue like abortion and the definition of life. It's so patently clear you read very specific research in a very specific way to fit the worldview you already had. You aren't interested in facts or morality or right/wrong. You are only interested in creating a narrative that fits your world beliefs.

5 times more harmful than tobacco??

If you're gonna post something idiotic as fact, try and provide evidence to back it up.

Otherwise, you just look stupid.

Apparently, Randy only does "research" on sites that support his bigotry and ignorance.

whats a hippie (you) gonna do about it? Have a little peace & love protest? That'll sure keep em from arresting you for disorderly conduct.

I wish that the states that have a high number of African Americans in them follow suit.

Oh, It's the American Social Model to imprison black men who prefer pot over drinking.

Weed is a crime is the biggest fraud that countries in this world have ever been involved in and this law was decided by a few people and not by the majority of Americans who don't have any recourse except for retaliation to protect what they know are their individual rights.

Stop with the slave like politics.....
North Carolina
Georgia
Tennessee
Virginia
Florida
and other southern states that I failed to mention.

Also get rid of the Right to hire and fire laws that discriminate against all people in those southern states!!!!!

Where in the heck are the unions in the south??????

aren't most of those states republican?

I don't know why people even argue about this. Let the gays spread-their sins will be taken of through HIV and AIDS. Let the dopers get doped up-they too will see how their lives will go to ruin and also the their state. Why argue with them-let them cut their own throats-sooner or later it is less problems that the intelligent, moral people have to deal with.

Kanic - Let the gays spread-their sins will be taken of through HIV and AIDS.

Help me along here, Kanic, as I'm trying to understand your bizarro bigot-logic.

Are you saying that marriage increases the STD rate, and that denying gays the societal support for monogamy will reduce the STD rate?

Let the gays spread-their sins will be taken of through HIV and AIDS. Let the dopers get doped up-they too will see how their lives will go to ruin and also the their state

More fear mongering from the cowardly crowd who fear everything they don't understand. Like there is nobody today who has toked, who can hold a job, run a successful business, or the biggest "failure" of all, hold the presidency. Unfounded fears that are based off of ignorance, misinformation, propaganda, conservative bias, religion, or the greed of the amount of dollars involved, are all easily debunked fallacies. Those that believe the lies and misinformation about pot, shouldn't be so proud to display their lack of critical thinking skills and prove their ignorance and fears.

If MJ is so terrible or evil, then why can't it be proven with science and medicine? Could it be because the proof would show that it is all about riling up the fear filled crowd so that the greedy anti crowd can reap the most greed from the failed war on morality? Prohibition will still be a failure even if we throw another 100 trillion dollars at it over then next 50-75 years. It currently serves no purpose other to criminalize a plant, in the ruse of the colossal welfare to the legal and police industries and other government chosen winners. The ignorance called the war on drugs free choice needs to end for the entire country. Take that money and start to go after white collar criminals instead of blue collar government mandated criminal called the pot user.

It was where it started, the politics of pot were anti-black and anti-Hispanic in origin. http://www.njweedman.com/why_marijuana_is_illegal.html

The war on drug was started by http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope_Innocent_VIII who did not like his salves smoking it.

Except in public, indoor places.

Be glad you have the right. Don't turn it into a war. Being an idiot and going beyond the law will just make it harder for other states to move on. Also, doing your "@!$%# you" attitude, you will bring in the feds.

Ya, great attitude to have. You'll be in jail a lot.

Wow you life will be so complete now.

No one can be that stupid, pot should be and is now treated like booze, I don't want some guy out in the street getting drunk and bothering people and I don't want big smoke-in's out in the street either, it's morons like you that make it so hard to be a reasonable adult in this country!

Agreed people - it's people like this, that wanted it legalized just so they can smoke in public and chest-pump in front of the police like five year olds. Respect it, don't flaunt it.

@ckneely-so true, just goes to show you what the future of our country is going towards, it's really pathetic. Pot heads are pathetic losers who can't deal with life on a normal level. It is pathetic when a person feels the need to alter his/her mental status, obviously because they are not happy with who they are or don't even know who they are. Wait and see the distaster this is going to cause.

Kanic - It is pathetic when a person feels the need to alter his/her mental status, obviously because they are not happy with who they are or don't even know who they are.

So you're a member of the Women's Temperance Society?

Good luck with your little morality quest, because Prohibition has always worked so well.

Kanic-You've completely misunderstood my meaning. What people do in their own homes is none of my business, I don't pretend to know what's best and I don't have the right to judge others if it has no effect on me, in short I am not holier than thou or anyone else. My point is that you should be respectful of others that may not share your personal tastes, that is how reasonable people get along and build a civilization. Judging the behaviour of others when it has no effect on you is what tears down civilization.

I hope I've clarified myself.

3/4 to ratify the US constitution. But a state or states cannot nullify any law congress has passed. There is writing in certain area of fed laws that describe it but in theory it has no chance, the majority in the supreme court have rejected it. A state or states can bring a lawsuit to challenge the constitutionality of a federal law or statute, but the suit is still heard only by a federal court who's decision then is sent to the federal supreme court which does not recognize nullification and will dismiss it. There are great legal arguments on the books and online on this subject. But a short answer to your question is zero, it can't be done in our current system.

Nullification seems to be entirely a southern, neoconfederate concept. It has no basis in reality.

http://www.jsonline.com/news/opinion/gop-legislators-go-rogue-over-federal-health-care-law-to7l8ff-179383901.html

Congress will be likely to take on federal legalization after 17 states have done so. This is dictated by the "hurry and catch up so we can lead" principle of representative government.

Or you can just succeed and nulify that dern federal guvmint like everyone else

It take 1 juror. Of course it may not be a felony. No jury in federal misdemeanor. Like DWI in a federal park.

You do understand that your concept of Jesus Christ and what I need to do/accept is irrelevant to anyone but you and none of your business, right?

Well put, Bobby. Nicely done.

Why exactly is it so important to Christians that other people believe the exact same things they believe?

Tim,

Scroll down and read Bobby's next post. You might learn a thing or two about being a Christian.

That is easy:

1) Jesus Christ, (Lord of all creation), has instructed His disciples to share the good news of His Gospel.

2) Paul the Apostle has instructed Christian disciples to expose sin and declare the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

3) The Bible clearly states that the "wages of sin is death," Romans 6.23 This would be the effects of sin upon the individual, the family, and the nation.

Self serving, humanistic liberals do not care about any of these imperatives, of course, so that is why Christians are oing to advocate for the truth of God's Word.

America has a moral problem. All the other issues are symptomatic.

The answer is Jesus Christ, always.

1) Jesus Christ, (Lord of all creation), has instructed His disciples to share the good news of His Gospel.

Merely an excuse to intrude in other people's lives or business!

2) Paul the Apostle has instructed Christian disciples to expose sin and declare the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

Paul was also Jesus's "special friend." ;)

3) The Bible clearly states that the "wages of sin is death," Romans 6.23 This would be the effects of sin upon the individual, the family, and the nation.

Sin is just a religious concept and not applicable to anyone who doesn't believe such nonsense, nor does the bible make our secular laws.

Self serving, humanistic liberals do not care about any of these imperatives, of course, so that is why Christians are oing to advocate for the truth of God's Word.

Those "imperatives" are only applicable or relevant to christians. There are many other non-christians too. You do not have the right to impose your beliefs onto others, especially not through our secular government and law!

America has a moral problem. All the other issues are symptomatic.

Morality is subjective. Seems like the root of the disease is religion! Especially when you spew tripe like that above!

The answer is Jesus Christ, always.

Myths and fairy tales answers nothing!

The answer is Jesus Christ, always.

You would do well to better emulate him, then.

Sarah, I am only going to post one thing, so I don't really care how you respond.

You get upset when religious people spread their views, but you are spreading your views here trying to get people to accept your view. What is the difference? I am not overly religious, but I find that an interesting contradiction.

You have also made several condescending remarks about religious people. How does that make you any better than people who make negative comments about homosexuals? It is the dame thing. The only difference is that you have justified your attacks by saying you are defending a demographic. However, the religious people also feel they are defending a demographic. So they are the same.

Just because you have an opinion does not mean you are right.

Think,

I posted this above...

This is what I say. Apply the "but for" test in regards to deciding who is/isn't a bigot. But for the rhetoric used against my fellow citizens, I would have nothing to say to and/or about those people. They use their religions as weapons to harm and attack my fellow citizens and people I care about. So yes, I will take every opportunity I have to stand up to them and point their fallacies out.

What is their "but for"??? But for someone's private and personal sexuality that harms them in no way???

Yes, they are entitled to their opinions, but they aren't entitled to our acceptance or swallowing of their opinions. There's a difference between being tolerant and being passive. I can tolerate their beliefs, I don't have to be passive in the face of their using those beliefs against my country's fundamental tenants and citizens.

Now scroll down to Bobby's next comment and read my response. Then please quote where I've ever said someone wasn't entitled to their religion, or attacked someone merely for their religion as opposed to how they USE their religion.

THAT, is the difference. Well that and the fact that I can support my positions with legal authority and/or credible evidence. Go to my page and read them if you'd like. Anyone is more then welcome to.

Think, people - Sarah, I am only going to post one thing, so I don't really care how you respond. You get upset when religious people spread their views, but you are spreading your views here trying to get people to accept your view. What is the difference?

The difference is that religious fundamentalists are trying to use the government to impose their sharia laws on everyone (ie, to deny civil rights to gays).

Sarah isn't trying to do that, and isn't trying to restrict your freedom.

3) The Bible clearly states that the "wages of sin is death," Romans 6.23

Aaaannnd...right on schedule, Herald9 cites the Pauline Epistles to justify denying basic rights to people he doesn't personally like. Tell me, Herald, what does Jesus the Christ have to say on the matter at hand? Oh, that's right--nothing! 'Dja ever notice that the people who most loudly proclaim themselves "Christian" NEVER quote Jesus, but always have a ready quote from Saul of Tarsus? So, Herald, which one do you really worship?...

Sarah said:

'The answer is Jesus Christ, always.'

You would do well to better emulate him, then.

Looking down your nose at others telling them to emulate Christ is itself unChristian-like behavior since it is judgemental in nature.

Pro,

Good thing I've never presented myself as a Christian then. Huh?

I just want to say GOD Loves each and everyone of us. GOD does not love sin, He Hates sin and the act of men with men or women with women is sin, And as long as you have breath in you body which GOD gives to you and me, He is giving all of us a chance to turn from our sins. GOD Loves us all but not the sin which He will punish and destory.

I just want to say GOD Loves each and everyone of us

Sorry, that makes no sense. You cannot have an omnipotent being who "loves everyone" and have the reality we live in. It's simply logically impossible. A god may exist, but if it does it isn't the one you believe in.

Sarah, Sarah, Sarah!
Hate, Fear and Fag mungering-ing-ing is giving way to people who are tired of hearing about how social security is Librial money and I/we are lucky to get some when I get old, (entitlement My AZZ) thats our money they TOOK) And the mongers and also tired of being told we are all born oweing fifty thousend dollars that I/we didn't spend the minute we're born! The Government spent that money and their blame-ing it on US! So if they can find a way to tax Queens and pot great! And byy the way Religan/ Church, is not God! There is a god and He told me to spread the "word" Tee Hee!

The olll mighty "GOD" Hate's the Tea Party therefore he has punished them with the affliction of insanity!
He also Hates Liberals and Conservatives Being at odds because of their usury and infernal arguing so he will drive Europe to war and cause us to be joined long enough to learn new ways to dis like each other all over again! And he muttered under his breath while I was leaving to go out and spread the word! That he was happy there is finally a vac seen for soft warts, because he already had a plan "B" infection planned! And then he USED the Evil laugh!

Sarah the logic hater

@Geraldo9-Very well put-the absolute truth there.

Sarah said:

Pro,

Good thing I've never presented myself as a Christian then. Huh?

Then that's your problem.

You seem to 'know' an awful lot about the subject for being such a non-Christian. I'll make my own non-Christian judgement and say that, based on all the rhetoric you are spewing here and all the 'love' you're gaining, you love the attention. Huh?

You seem to 'know' an awful lot about the subject for being such a non-Christian.

That's actually normal. Why? Cause we can see everything without using rose-tinted glasses.

Pro,

You don't have to be a Christian to understand the the message. In fact, not being one gives you a less biased and more objective view about what does and doesn't make sense in regards to it.

And who doesn't love attention? Why you gotta hate?

I'm not hating you, only making an observation. Based on the number of collapsed posts above, you're not making very many admirers here. My observation is you seem to be enjoying this kind of 'attention'. I would suggest you examine why that may be (?)

Otherwise, I'll be complimentary and say I've seen many other posts from you that seem insightful and thoughtful, reflecting someone with good intelligence. And for the positive inputs, you got my attention. Peace.

Based on the number of collapsed posts above, you're not making very many admirers here.

Good thing that isn't my intent then, huh?

I would suggest you examine why that may be (?)

Boredom and a sincere desire to not do my homework or study for finals.

Otherwise, I'll be complimentary and say I've seen many other posts from you that seem insightful and thoughtful, reflecting someone with good intelligence. And for the positive inputs, you got my attention. Peace.

Thanks.

Sarah's no good at making frienemies.

Me, I'm just good at making enemies.

Oh, and Sarah, nice shoes! ;)

Is that a trick question???? ;D

Jack f, Why do you keep writing ;D ?

No, I'm actually looking forward to it next Friday. A friend of mine who has been with his partner for 13 years, is finally able to get married. And it's about time. Damned ultra religious psychos taking a socio-economic institution and making it sacred because a dusty assed 1700 year old book written by tribal primitives told them the great fairy in the sky said it was.

And for the record, I don't hate religion. I just despise the concept of taking your religion and applying it to everyone.

Well said hhs94! I wish I weren't 1/2 way across the country, I'd love to come join the big party!!! :D

Bobby,

I appreciate this post. A great deal. Sometimes, when I think Christianity is beyond hope, somebody comes along and restores it. You have a great night and a Merry Christmas.

Goodnight Sarah, but you are still a narrow-minded bigot in my opinion. And a few states accepting gay marriage is hardly a "win."

How Christian of you, Timothy.

Uh oh, I think I'm starting to fall in love with Sarah!

Uh oh, I think I'm starting to fall in love with Sarah!

You have good taste. :)

I think Justine has more of a chance with her than you Gordy.

Oh burn. You called a gay rights supporter gay.

Same here. I moved to WA state the year the death with dignity law was on the ballot. I was very excited to vote it in, as I voted in Gay marriage and recreational pot smoking. Let freedom ring!

You libertarians are a strange bunch. You say you are tired of government intrusion yet you are for legalization which will have marijuana be heavily regulated and taxed by the government. lol And Washington state is not a libertarian paradise, I also find it strange you think it's great to live in state where you say the majority have grown tired of government intrusion, when in fact WA much like CA is very heavily intruded on by both state and federal government. Maybe you libertarians are really progressives inside.

Washington enjoys more civil liberties than other states.
I actually voted against the marijuana law for that very reason CinUSA. I thought that the regulations/taxes that will be put on it are too excessive. I am for total drug reform but heavily taxing/regulating it will just keep the market underground.

Seattle seems to have a police state thing going on, but I can't verify or deny which state actually has more civil liberties.

I would of voted against it to. I would never vote to allow state or federal government to get even more tax revenue from the people, they will not spend it properly and will take advantage over time and add more regulations and higher taxes.

People talk about it being underground like we need to go to some street corner or back alley, my dealer lives in a nice home and has a wife who is a nurse and three kids. I look forward to picking up a sac when I run out because he's a great person and has established himself over the years as a reliable and fair dealer. Thankfully I'm in a state where legalization will never happen under the terms like in WA and CO.

I agree. Currently med prices are cheaper then street, but once legalization kicks in those prices will rise and dealers may lose some business, but not enough to make them find another career. I like the idea of being allowed so many plants in the home, but I imagine there will be so many regulations it will make it near impossible or most to enjoy this right. And then there are the majority of user that just can't grow.

I'm wondering what will happen with employers. The insurance companies will definitely be pushing more drug tests on employers, so more employees will be getting fired if the theory that legalization will create many more users, something I'm not sure is true.

So much to discuss.

I'm wondering what will happen with employers. The insurance companies will definitely be pushing more drug tests on employers, so more employees will be getting fired if the theory that legalization will create many more users, something I'm not sure is true.

Anyone in Washington who is employed by the federal government will still be fired if they fail a drug tests. I heard that they might do drug tests more often now as well. I am not sure about insurance companies.

Well it's the employer's insurance company that pushes how strict drug test policies are, although some employers are more strict then what the insurance company requires. Being insurance companies are part of the corporate group that has no interest in legalizing marijuana, I imagine this push will be severe. The war between drug testing and drug masking will go on as well. The current synthetic urine we have in this area is now no good as most of the newer drug tests can detect it somehow. Eventually testing will be impossible to mask or clean. What a racket.

See you around Satanick

I actually voted against the marijuana law for that very reason CinUSA. I thought that the regulations/taxes that will be put on it are too excessive.

I find that a strange position. Not unlike a man dying of thirst turning down a glass of water because it isn't a full glass, if you'll pardon the clunky simile. While the issue of employers using their procedures to harass people legally using a substance is troubling, there are legislative means of dealing with that; i. e., by outlawing drug testing by private employers in that state, at least of substances not currently illegal in WA. As for the regulation/taxation issue, that would be equally valid with tobacco and alcohol, both of which are subject to excise tax in most (if not all--I'm too lazy to check that right now) states; I personally have no issue with these, especially if it assures that the sources of the substances are above-board sources. That's an issue I think we'd have to agree to disagree on...

I think Libertarians only want no Gov when it suits them, but when they need them they are shouting Where are they!

CinUSA - You miss the point of being Libertarian, as most Liberals and Conservatives usually do. We just want to be left alone to our own devices and not have a central beaurocracy baby sitting us. We certainly don't want a government agent telling us what plants and how many we can grow in our back yard.

Probably the farthest we would go it to not allow it to be sold to people under 18.

Also I am not sure how much you have thought about supply and demand but if it becomes legal the price will drop not rise. Crime will drop as well as it has in the other countries that have legalized it.

My city (in Canada) has 1.2 million people and has had 5 murders this year.

Sounds so good..wish I lived there.

Hey, I figure the day I stop pissing people off is the day I'm irrelevant, right? It's one of my greatest talents. :)

So that's how you get relevance, by instigating everyone. Got news for you. The minute they step away from their computer, you're forgotten.

Sarah, the only explanation as to why you are so adamant about this subject is that you are gay. You have never said it so, are you? We all are irrelevant. You actually don't make me mad, I just feel sorry for you. If you do not believe in God then what is your idea of what happens to one when they die? Are you really bothered so much by people that believe, or is it that the fact the God just is not in line with your way of thinking?. God wants you more than he does me, and I am going to pray for you.

P.

Sarah, the only explanation as to why you are so adamant about this subject is that you are gay.

There you go being arrogant again. It's arrogant to assume you know a strangers motivation. Maybe I have a gay family member? Maybe I have a gay friend. Maybe I have a fundamental dislike for illogical arguments and people who deny rights to others for no good reason?

We all are irrelevant.

You're correct. My personal opinion is irrelevant. However, what IS relevant, is the fact based, secular argument I can make in regards to this issue.

You actually don't make me mad, I just feel sorry for you

Arrogance again. You presume that one can only be happy if they think like you, or that they should be pitied for not thinking like you, because you've got it all figured out. Arrogant.

If you do not believe in God then what is your idea of what happens to one when they die?

What I believe in is irrelevant and none of your business.

Are you really bothered so much by people that believe, or is it that the fact the God just is not in line with your way of thinking?

Absolutely not. I'm bothered by people who use their beliefs as weapons and present BELIEF as fact.

. God wants you more than he does me, and I am going to pray for you.

Again, arrogant. Who are you to say what God wants?

If you do not believe in God then what is your idea of what happens to one when they die?

Fear of death, and control of other people is the only reason religion exists.

I didn't exist before I was born. Beside missing a lot of neat things (like watching the pyramids getting constructed, etc) it wasn't too bad. Because I didn't exist.... just like after you die (in all likelihood). Get how that works?

Actually, P cartier, YOU are more likely to be gay than Sarah or any other supporter of equality. Please explain to us why it is necessary to be gay in order to support equality.

Over 50% of the population supports gay marriage. If gay people make up 5% of the population, that still means the majority of gay rights supporters are straight. Statistically, a gay rights supporter is nearly 10x more likely to be straight than gay.

Not that it really matters.

Lowell,

Something tells me you're fibbing a wee bit?

Hey Lowell, you still there?

Is that why the LDS church & Mitt are SO outspoken on abortion? Is that why your church tells you not to drink coffee, tea or cola? Is that why Mormon women don't go to the top tier of heaven (or Kolob?) unless they are "sealed" to a husband? Is that why your church makes you where garments (magic underwear)?

Indeed I could go on 'YOU KNOW' ;), but it's not my job to educate the idiots that voted for some religious cult member. American voters obviously knew nothing about the "REAL" Romney! I won't mention the LDS Church's "New York born Prophet Joseph Smith"...(1800's) conman, who had a vision and spoke with the angel Moroni, Smith then found the gold plates etc...etc..etc...can we say brainwashed?

Either you ARE NOT a Mormon, or your a member of the fundamentalist Mormons who still practice rape & incest and are hoping if gay marriage is legalized your sick perversions will someday be legal as well. If that's the case don't hold your breath...you and Warren Jeffs will be long gone before that ever happens!

Lowell-1105544 - It's in the teachings that people have the right to make choices for themselves and we wish others to grant us the same.

I guess that's why your bizarre cult spent millions to deny gays the right to choose whom they wish to marry.

Maybe we should treat you nutballs the same way you've treated other Americans, by denying your civil rights.

Thanks for chiming in Skrekk :)

Sometimes I feel alone in calling this cult out! They Hate women, blacks, gays, lesbians, abortion and anyone who has a mind of their own (Of COURSE)!

What/who they like is $$$$ and power...thats why they groomed ole Mitt for many years to get them into the White House...with the rest of the old, white, secrete hand shaking, rich bastards...who don't give a rat's ass about anyone but themselves ie; REPUBLICONS!!!!!

JAC OFF.

You sure are a hate filled piece of SH!T.

That guy says he is for the new laws.

You are for the new laws.

And you tear into him like a rabid dog.

What's your FUKING problem?

MC Gusto - And you tear into him like a rabid dog.

Because he claimed his cult says "that people have the right to make choices for themselves and we wish others to grant us the same", when his cult not only doesn't do that but has always opposed the civil rights of minorities. Mormons have been one of the leading groups trying to suppress gay rights in all 50 states.

He's either lying or profoundly ignorant. If Mormons want to be treated as full citizens they need to learn to treat all other Americans as full citizens, and not lobby to deny their civil rights.

If Mormons want to be treated as full citizens they need to learn to treat all other Americans as full citizens, and not lobby to deny their civil rights.

Mormons are full citizens. So are Catholics, Protestants, Jews, Muslims, Atheists, etc. etc. Just because one group of Mormons lobbied against gay rights doesn't mean other Mormons deserve to lose their rights.

He's either lying or profoundly ignorant.

Or a third alternative, skrekk--that his "cult" is materially, perhaps deliberately, misinterpreting its own dogma for their own current political purposes. Gee, like that's never happened before in any other sect of any other religion...

Matt Taylor - Mormons are full citizens.

Only if they're straight Mormons.

Just because one group of Mormons lobbied against gay rights doesn't mean other Mormons deserve to lose their rights.

One group? I think you've got the numbers backwards given that the Mormon church itself teaches that gays should be denied civil rights. Polls show that Mormons are just as homophobic as Southern Baptists. I'm sure there are one or two Mormons somewhere who aren't dumb bigots but......I just think given their profoundly racist, homophobic and misogynistic history that it might do Mormons a lot of good if they were denied the same legal rights they've tried to deny to other minorities. For example until very recently Mormons opposed mixed-race marriage, even for non-Mormons. They also vehemently opposed desegregation.

CIN, what you say may be true, but wars have to have a start somewhere. Enough people have to start it, to make it a battle. Wars are won by a series of battles won. This is a start, and I think it can be done. Eventually. maybe not everywhere, but in enough places.

Or, it might be like a dam breaking, as more and more people say "if they can do it there, we can do it too." Who knows? We'll see, right?

CIN de-criminalization would NATURALLY come before legalization. Therefor, your argument may not be valid, seeing as you don't know the legal process for ratification of the constitution when it comes to an 'illegal' substance. Had alcohol been known to have curative properties, the US government would have DE-CRIMINALIZED it and THEN legalized it. I know it's basically semantics but that's how the law works.

Unfortunately, I can see the government doing this. It will help keep prisons from overflowing with drug dealers, but they can replaced by more drug users who decided on "home made" products.

If marijuana (and other drugs) isn't completely decriminalized many problems will remain.

• Gays have a 20 year-less life span than straight people

False. Sexuality has ZERO effect on lifespan. However, it has been proven that negative emotions and thoughts DO decrease your lifespan.

• one in 5 gay men already has HIV according to WebMD

Also False. Besides the fact that it says that NO WHERE on WebMD, it is almost the exact opposite. While it is not 1 in 5 gay men, heterosexual men AND Women are now more likely to contract HIV than homosexual men and women simply because of that stigma spreading as much as it has over the years.

• The problem will take care of itself naturally

Lastly, still false. Homosexuality in humans is not only old news, but also not exclusive. Dolphins, cats, elephants, zebras, dogs, and various other animals on this planet not only exhibit homosexuality but maintain life long homosexual relationships. If the problem were to "take care of itself naturally" then explain how the entire animal kingdom and furthermore, all the ecosystems of earth have failed to collapse.

Brett Dailey wrote "Lastly, still false. Homosexuality in humans is not only old news, but also not exclusive. Dolphins, cats, elephants, zebras, dogs, and various other animals on this planet not only exhibit homosexuality but maintain life long homosexual relationships. If the problem were to "take care of itself naturally" then explain how the entire animal kingdom and furthermore, all the ecosystems of earth have failed to collapse."

BECAUSE THEY PROCREATE. Two male dogs can't make puppies, tard.

One more time, wayne, typed slowly so you can understand. Gay people come from straight parents. If you were to fulfill your obvious wet dream and have every gay person on the face of Earth executed in one instant, you would have achieved nothing, because the next crop of gays and lesbians would be being born and shipped into our nurseries even before the previous crop had stopped breathing. How hard is that for you to grasp?...

I was only stating the obvious about his statement. I'm not against fags at all. I believe they should experience the pain of marriage and the agony of divorce also. They have had it way too easy in the relationship department. No government enforced contract(marriage), no divorce attorney fees, and no children to support. BTW you are a tard also and a troll.

Hey Celtic Pagan, we are not under the old testament law any more just the new testament and soyou should probably read

1 Corinthians 6:9-10 where it clearly says that homosexuals will not inherit the kingdom of God.

⁹ Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals,^[a] nor sodomites, ¹⁰ nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God.

kim, it's specifically homosexual traitors, and I have the 2011 KJV and NIv in front of me right now. You do realise that paul was in and out of prisons so much he probably came across the condition we know in our prison system today. Humans need affection and will seek it when it is withheld. It's highly likely he wrote that after a man came onto him.

After a man Came onto or INTO him! Are you freaken out of your mind! Awh Ha ha ha ha ha! That has got to be the funniest yet this morning! GD now I have to go and make fun of Liberals!

Ronald, that's a perfectly logical argument, especially given jesus never mentioned it and he's the only apostle who did.

Patrick,

You can have the bible in front of you but you are not listening to what it is saying. Jesus ONLY mentions marriage between one man and one woman-Anything outside of what He has defined is considered sexual immorality. He speaks about men laying with men-the word homosexual was not a word during those times. Sexual immoralty is spoken about several times and is defined int he bible which include homosexuality. Homosexuality is written throughout the bible as a sexual sin no matter how you or the rest of the world wants to spin it or deny it. It is a biblical sin that God is against, not my words. I can love a man outside my marriage, that does not make it right nor does two men loving each other make it right. God wants us all to love one another but not in the terms that this society has defined it. Regardless of what the homosexuals call love, in God's eyes it is a sexual sin. God has several meanings for love, we as humans seem to only identify with one. God will not bless anything outside of a heterosexual marriage-His words, not mine. Take it up with maker if you disagree.

Romans 1:18-32

“For the wrath of God is
revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who
suppress the truth in unrighteousness, because what may be known of God is
manifest in them, for God has shown it to them. For since the creation of the
world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things
that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without
excuse, because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor
were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts
were darkened. Professing to be wise, they became fools, and changed the glory
of the incorruptible God into an image made like corruptible man—and birds and
four-footed animals and creeping things.

Therefore God also gave them up
to uncleanness, in the lusts of their hearts, to dishonor their bodies among
themselves, who exchanged the truth of God for the lie, and worshiped and
served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.

For this reason God gave them
up to vile passions. For even their women exchanged the natural use for what is
against nature. Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman,
burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful,
and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due

And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a debased mind, to do those things which are not fitting; being filled with all unrighteousness,
sexual immorality, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy,
murder, strife, deceit, evil-mindedness; they are whisperers, backbiters,
haters of God, violent, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient
to parents, undiscerning, untrustworthy, unloving, unforgiving, unmerciful;
who, knowing the righteous judgment of God, that those who practice such things
are deserving of death, not only do the same but also approve of those who
practice them.”

Funny that SoCalCaddy first starts talking about what Jesus didn't say, but then goes on to quote Paul at great length - a zealous convert who never even met Jesus.

Sounds like he's a Paulist, not actually a follower of Jesus.

Although Jesus uses an example of a man and woman marrying, nowhere does he claim otherwise is immoral or sinful.

Paul, however, uses words that don't actually condemn homosexuality; they condemn anything that isn't the current social norm.