amen

Send them to the federal pen like that a-hole mike vick and let them fight it out there. We'll see how tough THEY area.

This believer wants to know how not believing in God makes anything better.

Hey to all people who fight about whether there is or isn't a god, STFU! People can beleive in whatever hey want to, thats what makes this country great. There needs to be much higher penalties for those involved in animal abuse/ cruelty. Were waiting on YOU law makers!

These people started being ass holes when they were kids with a magnify glass on a sunny day. So yes, please turn up the oven in hell for these mother effers.

*sigh* How did this become a debate about god. I'm an atheist, but this really isn't the right thread for this debate.

Hey chad, you know what i like, you saying you're free to participate as you wish, then you tell them to write their comments somewhere else. well done.

"I'll never understand why people comment to complain about comments."

Because gratuitous personal attacks about someone's religious views is something we should speak out against. Jim started all this by attacking parkwaync for an innocuous slam on people who abuse animals by invoking God. Jim can say whatever he likes, as can parkwaync, and so can I.

I'm an atheist too, but I think it's inappropriate for religion haters to derail a thread just because someone says the word "god." Silence is consent and I don't consent to that kind of rhetoric so I'm going to say something, even if I don't actually agree with the original comment.

I'm an atheist, too, but I think we can all agree (god or no god) that this was a horrific situation and the people who are involved in dog fighting-baiting, need to die. That includes Michael Vick.

When people start treating animals and children as objects to vent their anger, make money, and submerge themselves in such evil, they forfeit the right to exist on this earth.

What pompous, absolute a**h*** feel that it's okay to hurt something to: a) make themselves feel superior, b) make a few bucks, c) get their rocks off, d) impress other like-minded a**h***s?

These dogs were likely trained, starved, tortured and baited to participate in this horrendous activity. There is a sub- (and I do mean, sub) culture devoted to these kinds of activities.

Please write your congressman/woman to try to pass laws protecting animals, making this a crime and put the pressure on them to stop this! Now! Animals and children are not "property", they are living, breathing creatures with beating hearts. Treat them with respect and kindness and it will be returned. Life is short enough, and with animals, their lives are even shorter.

The pen is mightier than a prayer, which, like good intentions, really goes nowhere.

you people are a bunch of clowns. he used it as a figure of speech. noooo you bozos go running off in a different direction about your crap. forget the fact of this disgusting act. you people should try to get a life and wake the @!$%# up. too many dumb ass;s like you folks in this world.. @!$%#ttt

AG99-totally right. Let's all obscure the issue by talking about an unrelated and contentious subject. Who the F cares? What I care about is the abuse of children, animals, the elderly-anything/one that cannot fight for itself. Any unfortunate creature subject to the whim of evil. There is no "mammal, animal or primate" more filthy, unclean, cruel and unkiind than the human. The only way this will stop is zero tolerance. What does that tell the world when Vick is still playing football? His scandal should have ended his career-instead we glorify the gangster.

I agree, kinda. Although I'm agnostic I respect other peoples right to worship most religions, as long as it doesn't influence my way of life. I just think too many people are getting sidetracked by God/no God arguments. The real issue is that animal cruelty must be dealt with far more strictly, by people like us influencing legislature and making a difference, even if it's just spreading awareness. Hell should be forced upon whomever is guilty of these horrible abuses...in this life.

Yeah well, this redneck would like 10 minutes with the a$$holes who were doing this to the dogs. Can't you mental midgets leave religion out of this and stick to the topic at hand?

Jenny, put them down so they dont hurt anyone???? Are you ok? or just a moron? the dogs never planned on hurting anyone. Human beings did the hurting. Actually some humans should be put down, you no what im saying.

I say put them, the guys, in a box with rats under them...start a fire under the box (rats will escape throuth the body, rats will not be harmed). We will use beast, or critter to extract these individuals from society. Its only fair we give the animal kingdom the same justice. I really don't want to keep paying for dirtbags to get to eat and sleep in a comfy jail cell....and anything but 10 feet under molten lava is considered comfy for these guys/gals.

GOD BLESS YOU ALL

AMEN @ farmall48! lets focus on the issue. As the article said this is more prevalent than we know and it is down right abusive. How anyone can treat another living creature like that is beyond me. No life for a dog - no love, no comfort, no enjoyment and no chance of a better life. It becomes survival mode only for them! My hope would be they would attack the people who are holding them. They do not deserve to have this life! they deserve better and I hope they throw the book at all of them - the planner sand the attendees! No demand no supply - they should all be punished.

Here is how to find your representative to write them to ask for strict laws.

www.house.gov/representatives/find

@ kerry -

AMEN!

Vick should have never been allowed back on the field after his abuse of those dogs and his participation in fighting them.

If we can take canines and place them in situations of responsibility and love such as companions for the blind and handicapped; elevate them to the rank of law enforcement officers; spend hundreds of thousands of dollars to train them for military positions; see evidence time and time again where these animals have chosen of their own instincts and free will to protect and save the lives of children and adults... sometimes at the cost of their own... then it is beyond time to levy more than a slap on the wrist as a penalty for their mistreatment and death at the hands of their abusers and killers.

How did the horrific topic of dog fighting turn into ...if there is a God he would stop dog fighting, believing or not believing in God, yada, yada, yada. It just shows the world that some people just can't stand to stay focus and have to voice their personal opinion of what they do or do not believe. Who gives a crap!! Mind your own religion!! Back to the topic. The aholes that promote, organize and attend these horrible dog fighting rings should get a real job and stop having defenseless animals make money for them. You can ask God, the universe, or whomever/whatever you want to....just shut the h*ll- up about personal beliefs. Shame on all of you.

Hey, let's do something constructive and donate to South Suburban Humane Society for their care. My cousin is affiliated with them, and they are a great group......the dogs are in good hands.

Jim-346431

Sorry to burst your bubble, but relying on a magical sky daddy is just an attempt to absolve yourself from any responsibility. god is not real but the suffering here on Earth is.

What is it with you clowns? You have a massive hole where a soul should reside and you want to destroy everything that you are fearful of. If you want to not believe in God, that's your choice, but why do you feel the need to besmirch what is sacred to us? What about this "tolerance" that you libs are always preaching?"

Rebecca this wasn't always God's country. Remember it belonged to the Indians. Then people came in a God crusade and brought God over here because God was living near the Jewish and Muslim lands. So another point is "GOD" took this country from poor peace abiding Indians. That God is a killer.

god bless you all :)

Hey, everybody, are you all dyslexic? The topic is dogs, as in D-O-G... not G-O-D.

(and please, for the love of ogd or odg or dgo or whatever, don't start harping on dyslexia :\

Every person involved should be sentence to death by beatings, lashings, put them in cages with their hands tied with wild wolves, coyotes and foxes and let them slowly mull the too death !!!

We should call you Scott "Sharia Law" Phelps.

Jenny, I knew you were pretty ignorant. But, to read what I said and get even a shred of "racism" out of it only proves you to be illiterate as well. What if I was an African American who was concerned about what I'm seeing within my community? Did you think of that?

Jim and esp. Chad....two thumbs up for trying to teach people that we cannot kneel, close our eyes, and have someone do things for us out of magic. We have to do things, not God, where is he? I stopped praying to God for my personal needs because I take care of myself. But I will pray for others if and when I do. God is proud of me for not asking him for things in life. God looks up to me!

I love how everyone is attacking people of faith on a thread about dog fighting. Seriously? I'm so sick of people attacking others beliefs. So much hatred. We're all like fighting dogs, only we have free will and the ability to stop. These poor dogs have been dealt a horrible and tragic hand. Whether you believe in God or not isn't the issue. The issue is that there are still people getting away with murdering innocent animals. There's a flaw somewhere in the system that someone who has already been convicted of this crime, is still out there committing the same crime over and over.

Rebecca,

I find it amazing you declare the US a christian nation in a blaze of stoic ignorance. In god we trust was created in 1957.

Then you go on further to say that if you don't like it, go to some other country.

The irony of that resides in the fact that the US, of every other country on the planet specifically invokes a secular constitution.

Furthermore, the founding fathers of this country, specifically John Adams very explicitly stated in the treaty of Tripoli

As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion...

This was ratified by the US Senate in 1797.

Just a small education for you to think about when you tell others to get out of your "christian nation" as this nation was formed to protect against people just like you.

Ironic huh?

I always wonder why the paranoid atheists have to rise up whenever someone speaks of God Bless, or of Heaven or Hell. What are you afraid of?

Let those of us who believe have our faiths. You are free to not believe. We don't care. Frankly I feel sorry for you.

Those for who believe, no proof is necessary. For those who don't, no proof will ever be enough.

That said, I hope the ones they arrested are locked in a cell and throw away the Key. They are the scum of the earth, and God (YESSSS GOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!) will mete out their just punishment in Hell.

Isn't there still an electric chair in use somewhere...? Let's start with Michael Vick and work our way down.

You so called "Atheist's" make me laugh. If you truely didn't believe there was a god, you wouldn't even have the word "god" in your vocabulary because it wouldn't exist. The first thing fake atheists say just before a horrific life ending event is, is "oh god", thereby validating your belief that there is a god. People who claim to be an atheist also don't believe in love. You can't prove love, yet you claim you can love something. This is also true when it comes to faith. You can't see it or prove it, but it's inside your soul. Lastly, you know god is true, or you wouldn't blog to the world how your a non believer to justify your claim.

Kris1234, You are completely right, as are you Kerry. I believe anyone who can hurt an innocent creature that looks to you for care and love is pure evil and should be removed from society. If you can do that, I believe you are capable of anything. Clearly, anyone who can look into trusting and innocent eyes and kill or injure has no conscience or soul. Instead of turning on each other we should be joining together to help the cause which obviously brought us here. Write your congressman as Kris mentioned and go onto the PETA or HSUS website which regularly have causes that need support.

There's an article posted about dog fighting ........

The first commenter brings "god" into the discussion .... crikets.

Non-religious posters then point out this isn't about god and we have to handle these issues ourselves.....

--------------------------

"YOU EVIL ATHEISTS! THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH GOD. LEAVE US ALONE"

--------------------------

You Christians would be comical if you weren't so enthralled with pathetic hypocrisy.

This is a horrorific act, And arguing about whether or not you beleive in God, won't stop it!!! There are already laws on the books against this kind of behavior..... The only way to stop it is to report anything you see that lead to you to beleive it's happening in your neighborhood, or town. You see dogs with scars or sores, you hear alot of barking, see alot of unusal traffic. We are all adults, And only the vigilant can stop this disgusting behavior. In most states across the country after the court cases are heard, these poor misused, abused animals will be put down.... Death continues to be their only escape!!!!!!!!!!!!

This isnt about religion you idiots. Everyone is free to beleive what they want. This is about the abuse of helpless animals by a bunch of thugs that dont have anything better to do. Send them to jail and let the dogs attack them until they are bleeding and blind, and televise it.

Speakthetruth just pray to your god that all us atheists go away then.. He/She will make it happen...

"We need more prayer.

We are living through an epidemic of faith where large portions of the population believe they can solve problems through magical means. This is a real problem, and one that will only get worse.

I assure you that "an epidemic of faith" is not this the cause of this nation's problems, It's more a "lack of faith". Or it's too much faith in our political leaders. If these fine youth that you refer to were, perhaps, praying or maybe even spending time in a productive role of society maybe they wouldn't be in the places or have time to be on the delivering or receiving ends of the gunshots. Your misconception about praying and all of your problems will be solved by "magical means" is not even what it's about. I'm sure that even in your "major urban area" where you "have one of the highest rates of gang violence in the nation" you could find someone to explain it to you. And I mean it in the most sincere way.

ok chad. we got it. you don't believe in god, and you're smarter than everyone else. now go away.

Being "smart" is overrated. I'd much rather be civil. Both feats, you've proven incapable of.

What a dumb thing to even suggest, Speak. I don't believe in bigfoot - should the word not exist? I don't believe in monsters, vampires, unicorns, or jackalopes, but these words exist. So much for that half-crocked theory. The word "god" exists because down through history humans have felt the need to use deities and mythology to explain things they didn't understand, and to control others through fear and intimidation. Example: "You better do what this book says or you'll burn in hell fire forever!" Using the word in an exclamatory statement "Oh god" or "dear god" or even "jumping jesus on a popsicle stick!" doesn't validate an antiquated belief system - it just means that the phrase or word is imbedded in the lexicon of the culture in question. Finally, a belief in a religious system has absolutely nothing to do with experiencing an emotion, be it love or any other. From your post, it sounds more likely that you've experience far to little of that particular emotion for your fellow humans lately - in direct violation of the teaching of your humble christ.

God, no God. I am a believer and my prayers will not solve these problems. I think the real cruelty is that we spend more time criticizing others because they are believers or non-believers and not dealing with the issues at hand. We try to be politically correct as not to offend others. BS, the 25th is Christmas, the birth of Christ, not a holiday.

If you do or do not want to believe that is OK with me, God still loves you anyway. I will not force my beliefs down anyones throat, but please don't force your non-belief down mind. Because when we do nothing gets resolved and no one wins.

These poor creatures of God or evolution are dying because of a few sick and I might add non-believers and we argue about God.

A few have said contact our law makers, do you think they care? They do not care about us, why would they care about some dog. Our nation is dying before our eyes, and the politicians are doing nothing about it. And "We the People" are doing nothing either. We keep re-electing the same people that do favors for the few and screw the many. This goes for both parties and we are their pawns.

Dog fighting is a cruel and vicious and not a sport. It for entertainment only, law-enforcement does their best. The only true way to stop this is to change people and that can only happen when they are young and learning. Right and wrong. It about a living a life that is not about the individual, but all the others around the individual. When this happens this world will be a much better place to live, I just wish I could live to see it.

I am old enough to remember when we were allowed to pray in school, we were even allowed to say the pledge of alliegence to our flag. But a few changed all that for the many. There were kids in my class that did not pray when we did, teachers did not make them or force them, these same kids never said under God during the pledge either. That was find with me then and it would be now.

When we changed those laws and stopped praying in school and saying the pledge to our flag this nation changed, and not for the better. We have lost our moral values as a people and a nation, it is all about "Me" and not "We". It is really sad.

And for non-believers, the 3% that do not believe in a higher being, why don't you read the bible? Pretend it is fiction. It does talk about God, and religion, but most importantly it talks about how we should live our lives and treat others.

Dave

Jenny,

Make one logical post, based on reason and shared human understanding (even if you completely disagree with me), and I'll go away.

Chad, the thread started by someone mentioning God, and as an atheist crusader, you had to come and say how wrong we are and how it somehow makes us not want to help. Some of us believe God lets you make your own decision, so both the evil men do and the good comes from them. I fully support sending these creatures (the men running the fights) to their cages (jail). But if someone wants to mention God, I dont see how that's an invite to spew your hate on religious people. Dont believe, fine, no one cares. No one is trying to convert you, so stop trying to call people stupid for believing in God. Try to be secure in your beliefs so you dont just go around annoying people in every thread anytime someone mentions God.

I wish I lived out there and could take in one of these dogs. Even vicious dogs just need a loving home to eventually turn away from the cruelty that made them into mad beasts. I hope all the dogs find loving homes and eventually forget about the evil man put on them.

Why can't someone make a simple comment reflecting their beliefs without being attacked and belittled? If you don't believe, please at least respect someone else's beliefs. No one is going on and belittling you for not believing. Live and let live.

That said, this is disgusting and sad, and I hope these men get the book thrown at them. I'd love to see dogfighting made a felony, and I hope these dogs are rehabilitated and placed into loving homes.

Gee, Chad, what did you do? Key her car or something? You seem to have a stalker.

1.38 justme-3094663- ...peace abiding Indians.

Ya might want to check your history books on that one.

go away, chad.

Dave,

As with you, I too encourage others to read the bible, ALL of it. It's the fastest way to become an atheist.

Why do you need anyone to pray in school at all? If religion is a personal matter, then why does it need to have a social aspect?

I understand why, but it doesn't seem you do. Just pray if that is what you wish but there is zero reason you need to have others compelled to feel like outsiders of some special club.

Furthermore, where does it say in the article that they were non-believers? I bet odds are they are indeed christian or were raised christian. No where in the bible does it say to be kind to animals.

This goes to my next point, the bible is in no way a moral document. In fact, it's vastly inferior to secular rule of law. We don't allow slavery, stonings, burnings, or ritual sacrifice in this country.

When you speak about the good of mankind, religion has been an anathema. Only in the last 400 years out of 100,000 or so, during the age of reason has man doubled his life expectancy, flown, gone to the moon, decoded dna, invented the ability to communicate across the planet in real time (internet), and a multitude of other things.

These were brought to you by people that did not stop at god. That did not accept the bible as any kind of science. These were people that had the foresight to think past bronze age mysticism.

Oh, and your 3% is inaccurate. It's more like 12% and climbing to 20% and maybe even higher as people start to not be afraid to state their views as witnessed in this thread.

DavenOH - It is a book of fiction.. Rational people don't need to live in fear of a higher being or heaven/hell to determine right from wrong.. It's how you are raised and the society/culture you are surrounded by that shapes your moral/ethical views... If religion helps people do that so be it, I'm all for it, but i think education would be more productive...

throw the perps in the ring and sic the dogs on them !!!!!

Well...now that the election is over I guess people want to go back to debating religon which has NOTHING to do with the story. This story is about terrible people hurting innocent dogs, not religion. Focus people! I sure hope the dogs will be okay and they will be deemed adoptable!

Okay, I'm going to go away now Jenny, I simply can't compete with your wit. Yes, AG ... I think she has a crush on me.

For the rest of you, I hope you enjoy your Friday. In parting, next time someone simply says: "Hey, you know what? We should probably leave god out of this and solve our own problems." You may want to think for a minute, are they attacking my right to believe in whatever the hell I want to believe? Or, are they simply saying: We may need to solve our own problems?

A few helping hands are infinitely more powerful than a thousand praying lips.

Just a thought ... now get out there, and hate you some atheists.

What absurd claims you make, speak. I take it you believe in unicorns, dragons, the Smurfs, and magic sock elves? After all, if you are to be consistent, than you MUST believe in these things because otherwise you wouldn't even have such words in your vocabulary.

To your second claim. What words do you use to describe the days of the week, when each time you use the word 'Tuesday', or 'Wednesday' you validate your belief in the pagan gods these days honor, Tie, the Germanic god of war, and Woden, a god of swiftness. And let's not even mention 'Thursday', by which you validate your belief in the Norse god Thor.

What words do you use for the months? If words can not be used except as express endorsement of the myths by which they originated, than you, my friend, MUST be a pantheist, as confessed each and every time you honor the Roman gods, Janus, Februus, Mars, Maiesta, and Juno. And don't even get me started on the Constellations.

So either your claim that an atheist moaning "Oh GOD!!" during sex is a ringing confession of belief is false; or you, my friend, are a closet panthiest who, though your speech, worships all sorts of pagan gods. (What will your Sky-daddy think, of YOU using such words??) Even your Bible gives recognition to the fact that people "use the Lord's name in vain". What on earth could that mean other than that people can and do use words in ways which do not validate your own particular beliefs and meanings?

As for love, atheists, like yourself recognize love that love is a mental state of the mind, like, 'anger', 'pride', or even 'sweet' and 'bitter'. These things have no independent existence outside of the mind. (Or do you believe that there are these physical lumps of 'love' lying around on a mountain side somewhere, in some idealistic Platonic realm?) If it is your contention that god, like the emotion 'love' exists only within the electro-chemical pathways of the human brains, along side unicorns and fairies, I may be inclined to agree with you. Otherwise, your claim is absurd. Thus too for 'faith' as some reliable indicator of truth. It's fantasy.

Lastly, we wouldn't have to blog the word about the absurdities of theistic belief if not for people like yourself. What? Do you think that those who try to debunk absurdities, be it gods, big foot, crystal healing, psy, crop circles, or snake oil have no business doing such? That we shouldn't love truth and despise foolishness? Should you have free license to spew your nonsense to the web? I think not. I, and people like me, will always be there to explode the absurdities of your square-circle beliefs in the gods.

-Science_1

There needs to be much higher penalties for those involved in animal abuse/ cruelty is right!!!! There needs to be a swift deterent for these human monsters.

To: kerry-3027764

I could not have written it better!

There is nothing "human" about these beings, I hate them.

I love you Chad, seriously.

Chad, when you start the hate, you should be the last person to mock people for defending something that they were never trying to defend in the first place. Next time dont hijack threads with your insecure atheists beliefs. If you actually dont believe, why does it matter to you at all? Your like a death metal band who are atheists, but always write songs about God. If he is like Santa Clause to you, why do you get so butt hurt about it?

Grow up, and dont try to turn every thread into your venting station.

You atheists constantly look for any chance you get to get on these posts and talk crap about believers. One person makes a simple comment about a prayer they have for these terrible people abusing animals, and you run with it like they were taunting you or something. You are a lot more vocal than most christians and it's ironic that nowadays you are more often the one's trying to push your beliefs on us, not the other way around. You try to say that we are trying to avoid responsibility for "real world" situations, but in REALITY, most of us Christians realize that we are not to sit back, do nothing and "let" God just take care of everything. In fact this goes against what God has instructed us to do. We are to never have idol hands as long as we have breath in us, and we trust God to help us in various situations even if it's just giving us wisdom to make a right decision which turns out to make a positive difference, change someone's life for the better, somehow stop a criminal act, etc. The main difference between you and us is FAITH. You don't have it because you refuse to believe in anything you cannot see with your own eyes. Most christians now realize that it's a waste time to try to convince you of ANYTHING, so we try to lead by example, pray for those around us, and ask forgivness for our sins. Yes, we ALL sin, and don't worry, we know you will be there to pull the hiprocrite card when we do, so don't even waste your time with that anymore. And science, well if you really had much knowledge other than watching a show on Discovery every now and then, you would see that it only proves that there is an intelligent life form who created the universe. The Bible never claims to be a science book or an answer for any science questions. Science is for us to attempt figure out, and we will never actually understand all of it because it is subject to the laws of a MUCH more intelligent life form than us.

Sorry stupid people. Just makes me angry that these kind of people act worse than animals.

Chad, you need to take a bible study class to learn about free will and god's "flood". Even if you don't believe you will at least be educated before making silly comments for thousands to read on these message boards.

THREAD/ARTICLE/ completely derailed by RELIGION....

I feel sorry for these dogs... I feel allot more sorry for most posters here and the IMPRESSIVE derail from the topic...

I would help the dogs long before I helped any of you religious/atheist idiots posting here and completely derailing this subject matter.

To Angry and burns, let's not lose sight of the fact that it was a believer, not an atheist who first dragged God into the conversation. By now believers should understand the can of worms that opens. If you don't like talking about God, don't bring him up. It's that simple. Religion and politics should not be discussed in polite conversation. It IS simple. I'm good with holding my tongue on religious absurdities if the religious are. How about it?

No? Than I guess we can expect a lively discussion on religion every time someone injects their religion into theses threads. I guess we all must get used to it.

-Science_1

Chad says:

Just like believing I'm a Billionaire, doesn't make me rich. Sucks, huh?

But, we live in reality with real problems. That's why we wear our big-boy pants.

Your billionaire analogy doesn't hold water. However, believing you can become one can start you down a path of actions that could lead you to greater riches-nothing wrong with that, huh?

Reality: Basically, you are speaking through your interpretation of reality, you don't have the market cornered on that. You might wear your big-boy pants but your ensemble is incomplete:It takes even bigger pants to have to believe in a source higher than one's self. It's called faith. No guarantees, no direct answers, but it's here and it works if you are open to allowing it. It also takes courage to stand by your convictions and not back down from the know-it-all haters in life as well.

Your billionaire analogy doesn't hold water. However, believing you can become one can start you down a path of actions that could lead you to greater riches-nothing wrong with that, huh?

Reality: Basically, you are speaking through your interpretation of reality, you don't have the market cornered on that. You might wear your big-boy pants but your ensemble is incomplete:It takes even bigger pants to have to believe in a source higher than one's self. It's called faith. No guarantees, no direct answers, but it's here and it works if you are open to allowing it. It also takes courage to stand by your convictions and not back down from the know-it-all haters in life as well.

This has what to do with dog fights???

A final comment to Angry and Burns on 'hijacking the thread'. Let's not forget that you were active participants. This tangent wouldn't have gone anywhere if Cricket had posted once, Chad had posted his reply, and both were than ignored. But more believers joined the fray, as did myself, and here we are. All of us, equally responsible for pushing our beliefs and 'hijacking' the thread. I'm willing to wrap it up any time you are. How about now, by mutual consent? I'm offering a fig leaf here. = )

-Science_1

Wow i hope these dog-fighting @!$%#s go to prison for a long time. I hope they know how it feels to be helpless and basically do things against their own will for once. They're such cowards they couldn't even start their own fight-club or something and instead hid outside the cages and let the dogs do the fighting for them. Sickening.

ALSO what's with these anti-believer trolls? You go to a dog-fighting article on the internet and start posting off-topic comments about something that, according to you, doesn't even exist to what? Try and covert people away from God on an internet news article? I mean even if you had the knowledge to not just know, but explain how it's impossible for God or some type of god to exist guess what? It's still off topic. Even the person that says "I pray for those animals" is still far more relevant than "Why pray? God doesn't exist." But here I'll play your game:

Fairies are inevitable. Happy trolling.

sparklystar

Chad, you need to take a bible study class to learn about free will and god's "flood". Even if you don't believe you will at least be educated before making silly comments for thousands to read on these message boards.

silly comments feeding the trolls in a article about dog fights...I am one of those thousands and you look really pathetic... care to get back on topic...

Can you please explain to me how you feel about the dogfights? I personally think the people involved should be thrown in a room and forced to fight each other.

Thanks Chad, for shedding some light on these idiots. We need more people like you, that are willing to face issues straight on with logical thinking and not have to rely on Sky Daddy to magically fix all of our issues. The truth is simple, we have something called free will, every bad or good thing any human has ever done was because he chose to do it, god had nothing to do with it. So we either fix our issues or let them consume us, either way your God is going to sit back and watch it happen.

this blog is not about god. it's about dog fighting. i just want everyone who was caught or who was involved in the business of operating it to get at least the sentence and sanctions vick got. show me equal justice. please.

Shosyn, I think these dog-fighting rings are absolutely abhorrent, and I can't understand the mentality of those who take pleasure in the vicious fighting of dogs, who suffer for that pleasure. But ever more than that, I can't fathom those who, by their silence, allow such things to carry on. There HAS to be people, friends, relatives who know when such events take place. So how is it that even a single fight is allowed to happen without being busted up by the police? The article makes it clear that these sorts of dog-fighting events happen all the time. I'm gobsmacked! >= /

-Science_1

It’s very easy to be an atheist when you’re successful. But it’s very difficult to be an atheist when you’re laying on your death bed

please, monitor, delete all the god-or-no-god comments.

Science__1

A final comment to Angry and Burns on 'hijacking the thread'. Let's not forget that you were active participants. This tangent wouldn't have gone anywhere if Cricket had posted once, Chad had posted his reply, and both were than ignored. But more believers joined the fray, as did myself, and here we are. All of us, equally responsible for pushing our beliefs and 'hijacking' the thread. I'm willing to wrap it up any time you are. How about now, by mutual consent? How about it?

-Science_1

This is called diversionary tactics to drag you off topic for purpose of deflection of criticism .

Concerning the dogfights I think the offenders and maybe even you need to be thrown in a room and forced to fight it out physically so you can get a taste of what those poor dogs went through.

May the best ANIMAL win.

Derailing and then deflecting is a sign of poor communication skills. Those poor dogs, I wish they had a voice to tell you how they feel...I doubt they would derail THEN deflect while looking you in the eye.

Spin crap how you like...it is still crap and you got called out for crapping on this subject matter and these poor dogs.

Once again I hope they take the perpetrators and lock them in a room and let them fight to see who hates the other the most.

Shosyn, dude! Didn't you read my last post? Then what on earth are you on about??? Are you upset that I exposed religious absurdities, and than sought to bring the discussion back to the dogs?

-Science_1

All of you atheists are crazy and suck! Can't wait to see the expression on your pathetic faces as you burn in hell for eternity. You've been warned!

Bob, what do your sick fantasies have to do with the dogs? Can we get back to the topic of the thread please, and off your twisted perversion of 'eternal love'? -Science_1

"Jimreaper", I know it's frustrating why people don't understand, "Free Will." Why people like "Chad" completely miss the point when it comes to God and religion. There are so many dogma's out in the world--some are bits and pieces of several different one's but then they claim "their" creation story is the "Truth." If you're a God-fearing man, pray about it. If you're an atheist, read more science.

But getting back to this story of Dog Fights and those that participate in it, whether raising the dogs, scheduling the fights, providing the fight location or betting on them, I hope that KARMA bits all of them right wear it hurts the most. People like Congressman Steve King (R-IA) who bragged about getting the Animal Rights Bill reversed, and that would ALLOW Dog Fights. He was, by the way, reelected this past Nov for another term as House Rep. He's one to watch VERY closely. At this particular Dog Fight, people came from all over the state of Illinois and other states as well--Iowa is right next door; that's Steve King country.

Sadly, the appeal to free will doesn't let the bibles' god off the hook for natural evil. It isn't even a good defense for un-natural evil. But let's not get into that.

I didn't know that about Steve King, JMagnum. But knowing that now makes me glad I didn't vote for him. I live in Iowa. Shameful. -Science_1

La Bama- You lie. The Mexican Airforce did fight in WW2. Not against the Nazis true. In the Phillipines against the Japanese. Are you being disingenous or simply ignorant?

Sorry everyone for disregarding the thread but it's pretty clear the God/No God argument has already gone way off-topic. I really do feel for the dogs. You really can't treat animals this way and call yourself fully human.

The reason why things like this horrible dog fight happen and people like this can perpetuate this sort of action is because people waste their time sitting on their hands fighting about whether or not there is or isn't a God and self-righteously making fun of those that think there is one... or believe their isn't one.

Just do something. Stay with your family, speak gently with your spouce, raise your kids with love, show them how to be kind to animals... give them empathy and a conscience. From the attitudes here it's just one step to a hobby of anyone's choice... one of them might as well be dog fighting with the level of hate in these comments.

Just a few quick comments....A HUGE THANKS to the Officers and Sheriff's who were able to break up this horrific "Sport", and save the lives of at least 7 dogs.

PLEASE WRITE your Local and Federal Politician's about creation and enforcement of, more stringent Laws to protect the weak and defenseless ( Dogs, Cat's,Children,Senior's etc)

DONATE, ( not to HSUS or ASPCA, their CEO's make $100's of Thousands of dollars a year..see www.charitywatch.org) so DONATE to your LOCAL Shelter, you know , the one out there on the Highway somewhere....keep the help Local !

Consider Fostering or Adopting a Pit Bull (American Stafford Bull Terrier)one of the most negatively portrayed Dogs since the Rottie, Doberman, German Shepherd. Educate yourself, influence your Social Circle, a Dog is a Dog, it is the IDIOT on the other end of the leash that changes that ! Punish the Dog Abusers in accordance with the harm they cause, NOT the dog who was trying to survive a frightening , life threatening situation.

Lastly, this "Bust" was but a grain of sand in the Dog Fighting Ring world, just Google Dog Fighting Arrests to see proof of that. So STAND-UP, SPEAK -UP,PONY-UP , one person CAN and DOES, make a difference, BE COUNTED

I'll second that, JoMan. Good post CHMcKenzie.

Welp! It's noon here. I have some Calc to attend to. No mater which side of the 'god' question you are on, I hope you have a wonderful day. Give your cat a scratch for me, and give your dogs a hug. Cheers!

-Science_1

Anyone that is capable of abusing animals, especially dogs, in a manner like this deserves to be tortured and killed. How could anyone advocate something as cruel as this? I hope those poor dogs receive the proper medical care and attention they need and they get rescued by loving families.

jimreaper

Jim-346431

Sorry to burst your bubble, but relying on a magical sky daddy is just an attempt to absolve yourself from any responsibility. god is not real but the suffering here on Earth is.

What is it with you clowns? You have a massive hole where a soul should reside and you want to destroy everything that you are fearful of. If you want to not believe in God, that's your choice, but why do you feel the need to besmirch what is sacred to us? What about this "tolerance" that you libs are always preaching?"

The libs are tolerant as long as you subscribe to their narrow view of the world.

Could we drop the religion debate, it had nothing to do with this.

What we need to deal with the people that do things like this are MUCH harsher laws and punishments for fighting and abuse. Stop keeping people in jail for piss-ant tiny quantity drug possession and shoplifting and use that money and space for animal abusers. Don't allow bail, make them sit there, and give them serious time. They won't stop until the time they get makes the money fighting brings in not worth it, and it brings in major money.

so DONATE to your LOCAL Shelter, you know , the one out there on the Highway somewhere....keep the help Local !

Yes, and also local rescues, they are they ones that usually take these animals in. Local shelters need help too, but the local rescues are taking these animals into their homes and giving them care and love until a permanant home can be found. And if you want to help a local rescue even more, become a dependable foster home. Even if you can only take in and foster one animal at a time, that is one more life we can save and every one counts.

I have never been more surprised by the direction a comment thread has taken, but also never more entertained. Chad brought up a great point using critical thought, but did so using some harsh communication. THAT'S ALL! Poor dogs... these people have way too much time on their hands to partake in such a sick hobby.

Annie-322924 You ask why God doesn't stop such things in the first place. Because even these creeps are given EVERY opportunity on the face of this earth to change their hateful ways before they are condemned. A prisoner can NOT be condemned where there is no crime - and when a person is condemned to hell, they are a "prisoner". As much suffering as we bare in this life, it will all be forgotten in the next, which is why God allows bad things to happen to us.

I'm not surprised that the comments went off on a tangent. I'm just surprised that the tangent was religion and not about how the dog fights were somehow Obama's doing.

Chad, your not just an atheist but an anti-believer based on your comments. You make your points in news articles but then you almost always go out of your way to express your issues with not only religion but also people's beliefs... mainly God. Based on your comments on multiple news articles, you have proven that you do actually have some type of hate against it all and your not just being logical. Does the first comment offend you? I'll answer that for you because we already know it does. But if it didn't offend you than it is simply an ineffective way to handle the issue to you right? If someone says, "your going to burn in hell for not believing in God" I would completely understand why you would become offensive and start naming God, by what you know will be, offensive names. But instead you knowingly post offensive comments on the slightest mention of religion or even God as if everyone is calling you out on it. If you didn't actually want to be, well, hypocritical and actually wanted to people think about their beliefs then I have some very bad news for you: Offending people especially on the internet is known as trolling by many. Trolling is most certainly not the way to spread "free-thinking."
We get it... you don't like religion or God... now do something logical about it, instead of simply trolling.

This kind of human behavior has nothing to do with God.

I do feel it has everything to do with organized religion and the idiotic idea that humans are somehow above all other living beings. It is that arrogance that gives many people the notion that it is OK to commit these heinous acts agains innocent beings.

We are the ones who decided we are created in the image of God...we are an arrogant and sadly stupid species, capable of unbelievable cruelty like this.

As a group we need to start seriously looking at this kind of behavior and asking why? What can we do to stop the violence that seems to so prevalent in our pathetic little species. We are numb to it...we read these stories but we don't really do anything about it - or to prevent it going forward.

I'm afraid the only real deterrent will be swift and aggressive punishment of the human garbage that does this sort of thing. That will be the only thing that will ever stop this.

For those of you who don't like God being brought up in this post, consider this post started with someone posting a prayer. So, you read this post because.....??

Second, consider that this is often results in the atheist-haters trying to outdo the believers: Nobody wins anything in the end because no agreements to disagree are ever drawn. Big egos get in the way and dumps more gas on the fire.

Third: The word DOG is GOD spelled backwards! WOOF!

John-2032532

Annie-322924

This atheist wants to know why your god doesn't stop this crap.

This is about the most ridiculous thing ever. Do you honestly think we would have a free will of our own if God came down and smacked people down for doing dumb stuff? We are allowed to anything we want, good or bad, and God isn't going to step in and save anyone he doesn't desire to. This is evident in vast undeniable abundance.

This also proves that people are not basically good like liberals like to believe. Rather the opposite is true, humans default to evil, because it is our nature, fallen.

"I do feel it has everything to do with organized religion and the idiotic idea that humans are somehow above all other living beings. It is that arrogance that gives many people the notion that it is OK to commit these heinous acts agains innocent beings."

Please cite any part of the article that even made the suggestion this happened because of religion. I know christianity does say animals are God's creation and not just simply something to kill at the slightest will to do so. Also native-americans respect animals and all life more than anyone else. Why? Because of what they believe. If you tried to dog fight at any church i've been to you would swiftly have the cops arresting you. Nice assumption though.

Ryanb2121,

Do you "hate" the easter bunny, loc ness monster, or Ra the egyptian sun god? Religion deserves contempt, especially when it raises it's head as a matter of course.

Imagine for a moment where a good majority of people asserted every good outcome to unicorns, that we need to have recognition of unicorns in government, and that we should have time in public schools for kids to not only pray to unicorns, but learn how unicorns made us as an alternative to real science classes.

What you are seeing Ryan, is not hate, but rather a stop to apathy. Ever since 9/11 the middle grounders and folks that saw religion as a benign belief system learned exactly how destructive belief in mysticism can be.

You suggested he do something about it. I would argue that he already is.

Religion does not like the light of day when being inspected for facts or reality. You seem to be very intent on shutting him, or anyone else for that matter, up.

IndigoKid, we are above all other creatures just as God chose for it to be. That said we do not have the right to mistreat other creatures. These poor dogs are loving, giving animals; as God created them to be, yet some sorry piece of human flesh choose to make them fighters.

These people who use the animals and those who pay to watch them be destroyed are horrible, as far as I'm concerned and yet God loves them. He hates their sin, and loves them, Thank God He loves us all.

These men will be punished for their behavior by human authority and then possibly by God.

I do so agree that this kind of behavior needs to be stopped, as long as mankind thinks they can make a buck on something they will do it.

the only real deterrent will be swift and aggressive punishment of the human garbage that does this sort of thing.

Agree!!!

I see lots of people making comments here but few advancing real solutons to this problem

As a longtime volunteer at a municipal inner-city animal shelter,a former animal control dispatcher and a VDHB (Vicious Dog Hearing Board case recorder) from the viewpoint I've had on the subject of dogfighting and animal abuse, here's what we need to fix this problem:

Education, legislation, and Public Awareness of what constitutes animal cruelty in their local laws.

See my posts below for an explanation of each one of those points.

Education:

1) reach out and educate communities about responsible dog ownership.

2) Go into schools and teach children about responsible animal ownership as well as basic animal safety. Many of these younger kids, especially in lower-income neighborhoods, see older siblings and even parents dogfighting; to them it's a fact of life. They will need to be told it's not acceptable.

Public awareness:

1) Media and parents: a couple years back we had a dog come in. As near as we could tell he'd lost a dogfight (scars on face and head, similar old injuries) and the dog's owner poured battery acid on the do and chucked him out of a moving car in the middle of the highway. Another passing motorist saw he dog thrashing in the road, stopped their car, put him in the back and and brought him in. By the time he came in the acid had eaten through skin and flesh and muscle and he could no longer stand, and his internal organs were visible.

We wanted the public help finding out who did this so we anesthetized the dog and called local TV news stations, hoping to get this dog on the news in hope that someone saw something that would help us find who'd done it. When the news crew got there they refused to film the dog; they asked us if we had another dog in the shelter of the same size, color, and breed type that they could parade in front of the camera because they said graphic pictures of animal cruelty usually provoked calls from upset parents who complained that these pictures upset their children. We strongly believe this is partly why this case was never solved; the reporter could give the facts of the case but if people didn't see the suffering dog they didn't realize he gravity of the situation and didn't bother to call in even if they had seen something.

The media is going to have to be wiling to dare public displeasure over graphic pictures--and the public is going to have to be willing to look at them with an open mind and start to address the causes for this kind of crap. We have to be willing to talk to our kids and tell them this isn't right; instill in them the sense that this is wrong and needs to be reported, and if they see a friend, or a friend's brother or other adult engaging in animal abuse they have to be willing to speak up, and parent save to be wiling to make the report on behalf of the child and support the investigations. The code of silence around animal abuse needs to b broken, just like the code of silence around child abuse had t be broken before progress could be made.

(We ended up euthanizing the dog immediately after the news crew left--there was no hope of saving him. Despite the huge amounts of pain he was in, he still tried to wag his tail and licked us when we gave him the injection to put him to sleep. I was a mess when I left the shelter that day, couldn't ride my bike home because I was crying so hard, had to stop several times to just sit and cry. I wasn't the only one--a couple of our volunteers left and never came back because they couldn't bear to see sights like these. I myself didn't go back for a couple weeks, but I found myself missing the joys of working with the animals; and the joys balance the sorrows. Many people want to volunteer but few can handle the reality of working in an animal shelter; while there is no blame attached to those who can't handle it, if those of us who can decide not to help, there will be no one to help the abused animals.)

Legislation:

1) Stiffer penalties need to be emplaced and levied against those who fight/abuse animals;Michael Vick didn't do his jail time for animal cruelty and dog fighting, he did more time for drugs than he did for the dogfighting. My shelter was privileged to be one of the ones that took in a couple of Vick's dogs; watching them progress from scared animal to balanced pets was one of the most rewarding sights anyone could ever hope to see.

2) Governmental figures like Iowa Representative Steve King need to be voted out of office when they refuse to take a hardline stance against animal abuse and dogfighting.

(For those who didn't hear about this, it was right before the election--King said that if it was legal to take your kids to see a boxing/wrestling match, it should be legal to take your kids to see a dogfight; there was no difference. And those who put animal welfare ahead of human welfare had their 'priorities mixed up'.)

3) Animal cruelty registry: there's been a group of animal rights activists who are pushing fora national animal abuse registry--someone convicted of animal cruelty wold be placed on a national register and be unable to adopt from a shelter or rescue. Also, if animals started to disappear in an area cops would have a starting point to look for a suspect.

4) There are laws in some municipalities where if an animal is removed from a home for cruelty/abuse, and the AEO (animal enforcement officer) sees there are children or vulnerable adults in the home, those AEOs are required to report that to local social services. There are numerous studies out that show hat people who abuse animals can, will, and often do switch their attention to the child(ren) and vulnerable dependent adults in the home. My municipality has been struggling to get this passed every yea for the last five years but somehow there is never enough time in our state's Congress to address this bill before the legislative clock runs out and it's held over for the next session.

'Kick the can down the road' has to stop.

Since there is usually no real punishment dealt to cops in many cities around our country that shoot first and think after, i suggest that we lobby for a federal dog fighting police force where all these cops can be placed in. Then we wont have to worry about people like vick who are given a slap on the hands for participating in these horrible acts.

as for the god/ no god poo flinging contest that has broke out... I am as many label me a so called "believer" but i am on the side of Chad.

There are too many of my fellow christians who through their beliefs endanger and discriminate people of faith and non faith alike. For decades our country has been faced with serious problems that require far more serious anilitical problem solving than, "we should pray on it" or "its gods plan". The most obscene of these is the global warming/climate change debates or the debates over abortion and a women's right to choose. As a christian you need to keep your mouth shut about how others choose to exercise their god given free will, when it comes to abortion i personally think it is wrong but i know it is not my place or yours to pass judgement, it is His. For climate change as a christian you should be more humble and not percieve to know gods will, what if global warming is the tool god has chosen to test humanity? that through our actions over this Global crisis he will judge whether we are worthy to be the stewards of his creations or a failed experiment needing to be wiped clean from the petri dish of creation.

Right now we have several republicans and some democrats who pass or block laws based on their religious beliefs, which impacts all of us. that is the main reason most non believers are starting to speak out against our faith, because it has began to impact their lives and their freedom.

IndigoKid, we are above all other creatures just as God chose for it to be.

Yup, just like we used to be at the center of the solar system.

Just like we used to be at the center of galaxy.

Just like we used to be at the center of the universe.

Just like we used to be at the center of .....

Seeing a pattern here? smh, I don't know why I even asked :)

I can't believe that this thread actually has gone from religion to political insults. Everyone has to use a dog fighting thread to get in their personal agenda cr@p? Seriously? Give it a rest. This is a horrible crime and has nothing to do with anything but mean spirited, greedy people who make money off of innocent animals. You are totally disrespecting these animals by turing it into something it is not. Do you realize that some of these animals will likely have to be euthanized because they have been trained to kill by humans? That is so unjust...but a very real part of this whole "hobby."

BTW...Justme...I am not an expert in Indian tribal beliefs, but, it is my understanding that, in the Indian culture, they do not believe the land belongs to anyone...Some have changed their beliefs to be sure, but, originally, I think they thought the land belonged to all living creatures and their spirits. Not such a bad place to us to start as a belief system goes.

So for those who advocate prayer--while I am no longer Christian, I was raised Catholic and I realize that your faith decrees this but the Lord also helps those that help themselves, and so while prayer can help, follow that up with a letter to your local Congressman/Senator/Mayor/Governor. Make it clear that this is an issue you and a lot of people are concerned about; make yourself the squeaky wheel--you've all heard that the squeaky wheel gets the grease, and in this case if government knows that stopping animal cruelty is a concern for their constituents, more resources will be turned toward addressing the problem.

But remember that the best way to start addressing the problem is to talk about it, bring it out in the open, become aware of what goes on in your neighborhood. It has to start with YOU.

We will never get rid of all animal abuse and dogfighting, but together we all certainly can put a dent in it!

"Ryanb2121,

Do you "hate" the easter bunny, loc ness monster, or Ra the egyptian sun god? Religion deserves contempt, especially when it raises it's head as a matter of course.

Imagine for a moment where a good majority of people asserted every good outcome to unicorns, that we need to have recognition of unicorns in government, and that we should have time in public schools for kids to not only pray to unicorns, but learn how unicorns made us as an alternative to real science classes.

What you are seeing Ryan, is not hate, but rather a stop to apathy. Ever since 9/11 the middle grounders and folks that saw religion as a benign belief system learned exactly how destructive belief in mysticism can be.

You suggested he do something about it. I would argue that he already is.

Religion does not like the light of day when being inspected for facts or reality. You seem to be very intent on shutting him, or anyone else for that matter, up."

First of all I never said science was a bad thing and it is inevitably needed. If science class was replaced by unicorns or any religious class then id be upset. Some people who believe in God assume he simply "set the dominos up and pushed one." I don't believe God has some invisible hand to push everything into motion all the time. I also don't need someone flying out of the sky in some obvious fiery chariot to accept the possibility of something. Also, I never said I had a problem with atheism, which is what im guessing your referring to here: "What you are seeing Ryan, is not hate, but rather a stop to apathy." I wasn't talking about atheists or it's mindset. I was referring to anti-believers (theres a difference fyi), mainly chad.

"Ever since 9/11 the middle grounders and folks that saw religion as a benign belief system learned exactly how destructive belief in mysticism can be."

9/11 happened because of religious extremeists. Most muslims don't even agree that 9/11 was moral. Besides extremists, religion has come a way since the crusades.

"Religion does not like the light of day when being inspected for facts or reality. You seem to be very intent on shutting him, or anyone else for that matter, up."

Really? you should check out chad's comments. Not just on this article either.

Don't we do the same thing to humans? Boxers, MMA Fighters etc..

It makes me sick to my stomach that people would do this to their animals. I have a basset hound and a pit bull and I'd be devastated if either of them even got the slightest injury, especially the pit. He's just a cuddly little wiggle butt and it breaks my heart that people can do this to their animals.

(It also bothers me quite a bit that some people say they bet they are/were raised Christian, just to get the heat off their own butts, @losghost. Christian or not, this is sick and has nothing to do with who is or is not their God.)

Really? you should check out chad's comments. Not just on this article either.

Ryan, I have no need to try and "shut anyone up" ... I'm perfectly willing to have an open and honest dialogue about anything. I'm sorry that your religion/god doesn't impress me. You could just as easily be a Muslim telling me how Muhammad is the way, truth, and light ... equally unimpressive.

That's the problem with religions ... they're petty and small by definition. You're only versed in your religion, I've studied quite a few of them. So, I can sit here and carry an objective discussion with you without personal biases. Or, how's this .... "I don't have a dog in this fight."

Religions are cultural relics inherited through accidences of birth. If we were having this discussion in Iran, it would be the same exact thing, only a group of Muslims would be attacking a group of atheists.

Yawn.

By the way, can one more person please comment about how this thread has gone off topic? Please? We haven't see enough posts like this. Here, let me "stay on topic:"

- Dog fighting is bad

- These were bad people

There ... hopefully this post has now added a breath of fresh air.

Chepe Vargas:

Per my post at 1.119, Iowa Representative Steve King said much the same thing--there was no difference between a dogfight and a boxing/wresting match.

Here's the difference:

Manny Pacquaio is a good fighter. He trains hard, gets up early in the morning to go run, takes vitamins and supplements to keep himself in shape and is constantly under the care and scrutiny of doctors. Rules are in place to protect both fighters in the ring; certain drugs and performance-enhancing supplements are illegal, and his agent reads over a contract for each fight carefully; in case of a serious injury, there are paramedics and doctors available t step in, immediately stop the fight, render medical aid, and if an injury is determined he is given time off to recuperate, rest, and if the injury is determined to have been caused by a rule violation, the other fighter is penalized by the organization tasked with making sure this is safe and fair. Manny Pacquiao has a fine home, nice car, gets thousands of dollars for every fight, gets worldwide recognition, and signs each contract for each fight willingly, and has the option of declining a fight if he doesn't want to do it for whatever reason.

Now meet Manny the dog. Despite his owner having named him for the famed fighter, there is where the similarity ends. Before he is six weeks old his owner has hit him to see if Manny will protest. When Manny bares his teeth and growls at being hit, the owner separates him from his mother and the rest of his brothers and sisters. Manny lives in a dog crate kept dark and quiet; his only contact is with his owner. Over the next year, Manny is kept isolated, injected with massive doses of steroids and other illegal drugs to raise his testosterone and adrenaline level, tied to a treadmill and forced to run for hours in order to bulk up his muscle and increase his size.

Then one day his owner doesn't feed him. For a week Manny is given the barest minimum of food to keep him alive. He gets hungrier and hungrier. One day his owner opens the crate takes him out, and puts him on a floor inside a dogfighting ring. There is a smaller puppy in there--one of his brothers, but Manny doesn't know that. All he can smell is the raw meat tied around this other puppy's (called a bait dog) body, and all he knows is that he is hungry and this is food. He tries to bite the raw meat.

The puppy tries to defend itself, biting, scratching. Manny, angry that his food won't hold still for him to eat it, kills the puppy and eats the meat tied around it. His owner praises him, puts him back in the crate. Another week, it happens again. And again. Soon the owner graduates to not tying the meat around the 'bait dog' anymore but presents it as a reward after Manny kills the bait dog. Manny quickly learns if I kill the other dog, I can eat.

Then one day he fails to kill the other dog. His owner swears, curses, grabs a wooden bat and beats Manny. Manny is thrown back in his crate bleeding, and no food or medical attention is given. He is left alone until the injuries heal, then is presented to the same dog to whom he lost the fight. this time Manny kills the other dog, and get petted, praised, and finally gets food.

But Manny can't win them all, and one day he loses again--this time, the other dog inflicts terrible injuries on him. His owner, who has a lot of money riding on the bets that Manny would win, loses his temper. H grabs a bat and beats Manny as Manny lies on the floor unable to get up; blood is everywhere. Eventually he stops, but he's gone too far; Manny can't move because his owner has broken his legs. The owner raises his bat and brings it down on Manny's head. It takes several lows because Manny's head is massive, a result of the injected steroids, but eventually the owner caves in Manny's skull. Manny's body is then dragged out of the fighting ring, out to a nearby woods, and left there to decompose while his owner goes to find another fighting dog.

There is your difference.

(Yes, we got in a 'Manny', a dog a hunter found i woods whose skull had been crushed but was still alive. We euthanized him as quickly as we could so he wouldn't suffer anymore but an animal autopsy (called a necropsy) performed by a local vet turned up steroids, artificial testosterone, amphetamines and a whole host of other illegal drugs, plus old wounds like fractured ribs.)

lets put all these sobs in apit and let them fight to the death when they are all dead except one then skin and hang him out to dry

Here is what Chad is all about, he belongs to a group of people that spew theie belief's on every topic.

What are "theie" beliefs? Those sound pretty cool.

Here's a hint Dan, everyone has varying beliefs, opinions, and points-of-view.

The only difference is that some are informed, and some are not.

Chad, I am with you on this one. You can also see a big flaw in religion is the inability to be criticized. It's either all correct, or nothing, which is ironic because modern-day Christians cherry pick from the Bible anyway.

And this is the reason animal abuse is as prevalent as it is...people aren't willing to talk about it, would rather argue over whose God is better than to try to come up with solutions to the problem.

PLEASE can we all get back on topic here, people?

I keep looking at the picture of the poor dog in the picture, wondering how different his life would have been like, had he gone to a responsible, caring family. A family (atheist or religious - really, who cares?) who would love him, protect him and take care of him. A life where his bowl was always full, toys were always available, someone was always talking to him and petting him, making him feel loved and part of a loving family. I hope it's not too late for this dog, but he may have been trained too well.

I am sad for the missed opportunities this dog would have had.

Please, people, support your local shelters by adopting a dog looking for a good home. Make sure the dog is spayed/neutered, and taken care of. If you can't adopt, please donate to a shelter, whether it's money, towels, toys, food, etc. Most shelters operate on a shoestring and would appreciate your support.

If you see or suspect any activity that might lead to a dog fighting operation, please report it, don't look the other way. Lives are at stake here.

If you're an atheist, have a great day. If you're not, may your god bless you. If you have a dog or cat (cats are used as "bait", also), give them a hug or pat on the head and a special treat.

BTW - Amanda, that was a great post. Thank you for that comparison.

Maybe all the No God/My God people will just STFU. This discussion has gone waaaayyy off topic and needs to stop.

Kris:

Thank you. Shelters like the one I volunteer for love donations--old dog toys, anything--I remember a carpet store that was going out of business brought in a truckload of 18x24 carpet samples. Said they didn't know if we could use them but they didn't want it going to waste. They made great cat beds--put them down in the cat cages and the cats loved lying on them!

Another person dumped off a load of mulch--an enormous old tree blew over in their yard and they had to have to cut up and mulched--and then instead of selling it they donated it to us.The dogs loved the mulch down in the dog runs--raised less dust than bare ground for the dogs to sneeze from!

Local hotel was bought by a larger chain and had to get new linens, bedsheets, tablecloths, etc. with the new logo on them. Instead of discarding the old linens they donated them to the shelter.

And then there was the guy who brought three baby trees in to the shelter and donated them. We ended up planting one tree in each dog run, and they've now gotten large enough for the dogs to sit under on hot days.

A family donated a little plastic toddler's wading pool. We put it out in the dog runs and our water-loving retrievers had a blast!

Someone was moving and had dissolved their dog-training business. They donated the agility equipment to the shelter and we all had fun teaching our higher-energy dogs to run the agility course. one now competes locally in agility competitions and may go onto regionals.

Volunteer, donate, adopt!

"Ryan, I have no need to try and "shut anyone up" ... I'm perfectly willing to have an open and honest dialogue about anything. I'm sorry that your religion/god doesn't impress me. You could just as easily be a Muslim telling me how Muhammad is the way, truth, and light ... equally unimpressive."

That's the problem with religions ... they're petty and small by definition. You're only versed in your religion, I've studied quite a few of them. So, I can sit here and carry an objective discussion with you without personal biases. Or, how's this .... "I don't have a dog in this fight."

Religions are cultural relics inherited through accidences of birth. If we were having this discussion in Iran, it would be the same exact thing, only a group of Muslims would be attacking a group of atheists.

Yawn.

By the way, can one more person please comment about how this thread has gone off topic? Please? We haven't see enough posts like this. Here, let me "stay on topic:"

- Dog fighting is bad

- These were bad people

There ... hopefully this post has now added a breath of fresh air."

"You're only versed in your religion, I've studied quite a few of them."
That's quite an assumption you made there, sir. Do you also assume anyone and everyone who is informed doesn't believe in God or some type of god? If so, you might want reconsider what you think.

Chad, it's not that you don't have a point. Many religions are violent or at least more than likely had a violent past. I never said you were not willing to have some open discussion. I honestly don't care if your impressed or not by God, Allah, or Zues. But that's irrelevant to my point and my point before anyways.

What is relevant is how you consistently undermine people who chose to believe on literally if not nearly every article you post on msn. It's one thing if someone expresses hate towards you and you counter that by undermining them. It's a completely different when someone says "I pray for this person." and you, for whatever reason, chose to undermine them by saying things similar to "Sky dad won't help" as if they were calling you out personally. At this point, based on many of you posts, you seem a lot less like a tolerant atheist who wants people to actually think and much more like an anti-believer who simply wants to stomp out any mention of religion or even God.

"My comments are in response to putting accountability on, or shuffling our real-world problems onto a divine intermediary. It has little to do with "god", and everything to do with a culture with little to no semblance of personal responsibility. I call these out when I see them, that's all."

No chad, that's not all... not from you.

"Please God - let there be a special place in Hell for people that abuse these creatures of Yours and anyone who participates in this torture - Amen"

Just because a person prays it doesn't mean they've simply set all their problems on their god. You assumed that. But that's ok because you still went ahead and told them there is no god anyways. Seriously man? I thought you said you only did this if they basically thought the divine was the only way to fix issues in our world. That's obviously not the case for you at all, sir. Shall I go to other articles and bring in more obvious examples?

Where's your ideas chad? You always say prayer, God, or religion (It can be any of the 3 to get you posting) isn't the answer, undermine them, and then say "use logic" to fix it... BUT ONLY WHEN IT HAS TO DO WITH BELIEF. Your posts aren't about fixing anything really but just about being completely against belief. That's about it for the well majority of what you type here.

Oh and since you claimed to know, not believe, that there is no god I'm still waiting for that knowledge that makes God or a god impossible. After all, if you don't know somethings impossible you don't know it's not there. I suppose I could have been an Anti-dark-matterist 100 years ago when dark matter wasn't yet "observed." But go ahead and keep pretending you know everything because that's really what you're doing. I on the other hand will continue to chose to believe, not know, that there is a God because I've still seen nothing that directly refutes it. And of course, between the two of us the agnostics are still the only one being logical.

Ryan,

If you wish to construct such a novel of my many indiscretions, I'm afraid you'll have to do better than that.

Shall I go to other articles and bring in more obvious examples?

Can you?

Let's start here:

Oh and since you claimed to know, not believe, that there is no god I'm still waiting for that knowledge that makes God or a god impossible.

Go on .... please find the one solitary instance I ever claimed to "know" that there "is no god" or that "god is impossible." Go ahead, I can't wait to see it :)

My friend, you either have me terribly confused and mixed up with another poster, or your reading comprehension is simply not up to par. I can assure you, I would never claim to "know" one way or another about the existence of god (yours or otherwise). Ironically enough, I think your pseudo-indictment only highlights my point(s). You're simply blinded by your own biases.

and you, for whatever reason, chose to undermine them by saying things similar to "Sky dad won't help" as if they were calling you out personally.

Again, you're confusing me with Jim's comment at #1.3. If you wish to put so much effort into dissecting someones position, you should probably reference the correct person, first.

and kudos to law enforcement for rescuing these animals!! thank you!!

just another reason as to why people are garbage. Jenny? when you say put them down, I hope you mean the scum that did this

This is why Micheal Vick should have been banned from NFL and thrown in prison. People involved in these dog fights are subhumans.

i have an urge to beat the s*&% out of these 'tough guys'

@ Jenny Werner....These innocent animals were made to do the bidding of sick, worthless bastard human beings- and now, after rescuing them they're to be put down?? Get a clue- Its people like YOU that hurt others. Your ignorance is frightening. MOST of SICK VICK's fighting dogs were rehabilitated and now live in happy, safe, loving homes. Putting them down is NOT the solution to this disgusting problem. They DESERVE a chance.

Wow Jenny....thank God you are not the one to determine if these dogs live or die. Your ignorance shows that you have NO clue what you're talking about. It's a fact that many dogs ....with proper love, time and patience...who were MADE to fight like these dogs were....go on to become loving, tender, gentle, loyal pets to families. How sad and pathetic that your first response is to kill them...how sad that you let fear....rather than hope and compassion...rule who you are.

Maybe we could get Congress to pass a law that makes abusing animals a serious crime with a lot of jail time and fines.

Since they're not doing much about the economy, or anything else meaningful, maybe they would welcome the diversion and show the American people how well they could compromise on a subject that has required national attention for a LONG TIME.

New Gawker

This is why Micheal Vick should have been banned from NFL and thrown in prison. People involved in these dog fights are subhumans.

Get off your soap box about Vick. This was happening long before he was even charged. Even the then director of the ASPCA acknowledged that. Instead of me going on a rant, why don't you check with your local police, and ASPCA and find out where this is happening in your community and do something to stop it.

Jenny Werner ,Your kidding right? We as a society haven't demanded harsh punishment on these torturers, sadistic murderers, i.e. Vick. Your attitude is what turns people off to religion and many religious people. Kill the victim not the perpetrator? We owe these animals a good life, and the 10 million cats and dogs, murdered in this country every year because their not wanted, again, we take now collective responsibility to end this horrific cycle.

Jenny, if you happen to be Christian, which I believe you are, please try to be Christ-like, instead of killing living beings that may require a lot of love to become part of a family or single person and live a good, protected life. It amazes me how many "religious" people "love to hunt", murder for fun, and it seems to me your attitude towards these horrifically abused animals and your "answer" to the problem being murder, is coming from the same belief system.

Most of you are right, this isn't about religion, and those who offer a prayer for these animals is well meaning, and I hope ALL OF US will stand up ( whatever each can do,) against the horrors we inflict on animals for our own selfish desires!

Jenny it would be just as cruel to put these beautiful animals down. I do not know if Illinois is a no kill state. But with some love and kindness, these dogs could turn out to be marvelous animals. Dogs have a great ability to live in the moment and respond to what is happening as it happens. That's why a dog will continue to love a mean owner unconditionally. If in deed you meant the humans should be put down, well perhaps they should, but I am willing to bet that even now those poor dogs would prefer to be with them and not strangers.

@Jenny Werner,

I would call you a b!tch, but that would be an insult to dogs.

Some of these dogs may be able to be re-habbed; others, like some humans, may be so physiologically damaged by the abuse, they may not be capable of being saved...sad, but true.

Oh yeah...by the way...I doubt any of the "suspects" are avid church goers....

Intelligent & Independent,

That would be nice, but it won't happen. Dog fighting rings are frequented by people of power, so I would not be surprised, at all, if there were several members of Congress involved, or some cronies. In fact, I would be more surprised if NONE of them were involved. Not only that, but the taxes that puppy mills bring in are why they have been allowed to continue. Puppy mills are cruelty at its finest.

Jenny,

These dogs have been taught to fight other dogs, and most of them have been taught to fear humans, or get a beating. Spaying/neutering and some love will change MOST of these dogs.

By the way, 70% of all dog bites and 90%+ of all deaths by dog, are done by intact males.

yes the MIGHT be able to be rehabilitated but that costs money and the illinois budget is already stretched thin. don't see the need to spend money when it's tight, on a might, for a dog. not to mention you can go to the store and buy a new dog.

I agree with you there NewGawk. Vick should have been banned from the NFL. ANY sports figure who is convicted of a felony should be banned from playing in professional sports again. They banned Lance Armstrong for drugs, but we let others continue even when convicted of vehicular manslaughter, assault, domestic violence, etc.

I hope that if these dogs are adopted out by others, they go to strong willed people able to handle and control the aggressive nature that has been bred into them. I don't want to hear a year from now about how 1 of these rescued killed a child or a grandmother, etc.

Why are americans obsessed with trying to sabotage someone's work for things they do that have no relation to it whatsoever? this is something uniquely american.

I agree, rehabilitate as many as you can. However, if you watch the video, towards the end they mention that one of the dogs actually chewed THROUGH the plastic crate to get to one of the other dogs. In certain cases, rehabilitation is not possible and you have to be ready and able to make the hard choice to euthanize. I am an animal lover and hate to see any animal put through this type of abuse. It is heartbreaking to see what these poor animals have been through.

call me whatever you like; you're just a nobody on the internet.

Everyone: After reading some of "Jenny's" remarks, I believe she is just a paid troll who is here to stir up some controversery. Why don't we just ignore her(If indeed she is a "her")

RE; Jenny's nobody comment. Pot, meet kettle.

@ Jenny: Most of these dogs CAN be rehabilitated, and without government intervention. (Trust me, the local pound does not rehabilitate dogs.) I believe the punishment SHOULD be much like that of Michael Vick, who spent two years in prison and had to pay a hefty fine and nearly $1 million to rescue groups who took in his 49 dogs (most of whom now live in adoptive homes, and some of whom are people friendly, but needed a lot of rehab - due to FEAR - and are still in a sanctuary). The perpetrators should be ordered to pay restitution for rehabilitation of those dogs, so the dogs get a chance at life, and the criminals pay for their damage. If the high cost of restitution is paid, it starts taking the financial incentive out of dogfighting. I do think fines should also be much higher - once again, to gut profits - and those monies placed in a sheriff/police fund to pay for increased enforcement to bust dogfighting operations. Money is the name of the game in dogfighting, so hitting them hard in the pocketbook is the only way to make it not worth their while.

BTW - You mention "you can just go buy a dog". I hope not. Most store bought puppies are from mills - another form of horrific animal abuse. If you want a dog, go to the local animal shelter and ADOPT, or contact a local rescue group. If you want a specific breed of dog, contact a rescue group for that breed of dog (you can find them on the internet). Either way, the trend is to ADOPT, not breed, and certainly not buy from stores. Just FYI...

Annie, why do atheists always seem so angry and full of hate?

Jenny, I hope you're not as ignorant and pathetic as you sound. They're just dogs, so let's kill them and buy a new one? Besides my wife, our two dogs provide me with more happiness and love than any human on this earth. Very sorry that you've never experienced this love or connection. You're sure missing out. The bond between human and dog is incredible and I wouldn't trade it for anything in the world.

Diane, very well said. People need to educate themselves on puppy mils so they don't perpetuate the problem and continue to buy these innocent dogs from puppy stores. If anyone would like to know more about puppy mills, visit ASPCA.com and click on "Fight Animal Cruelty". There, you can find a link to information on puppy mills. We adopted our two dogs on Petfinder.com. Both were from the South and one of them was abused physically and emotionally. These dogs appreciate our love more than you could believe. People, please adopt! Also, refrain from shopping at any pet stores that sell puppies, unless you're absolutely positive these dogs aren't from puppy mills.

Just because some people don't agree with dog fighting, doesn't mean that others believe that themselves. Everyone has different values.

Put into perspective, these are just animals, would you prefer the fighters be human and to the death?

That is done too!

@Jenny...I can't believe that you think this is about money. You are a sorry excuse for a human being if you do not think that animals enrich our lives in so many ways and have a value beyond someone's budget. Studies have shown that people who have pets live longer and happier lives than those who do not. You are one cruel and ignorant person. I suspect you are from the "ME" generation. Certainly, you are not old enough to have learned compassion and respect. I sincerely hope that you do not propagate your ignorance. Your comments prove that spaying and neutering should not be applied just to dogs and cats. Your comment actually brought tears to my eyes--you make me feel hopeless for our future.

Phil...Yes, I would prefer that rather than to use innocent animals to satisfy one's blood lust. Yup...Let those owners get in the ring and duke it out...Works for me.

I have to say I agree with both sides.

On one hand, the dogs didn't choose to fight and could be rehabilitated.

However, 1. They have been raised to be fighters. 2. It looks like some of them are severely hurt and I would almost say it would be kinder to go ahead and put them out of their misery. 3. Even after rehabilitation, they will still have lingering effects of the abuse/the way they were raised. 4. Dogs have a short life anyway, honestly. By the time they were ready to go to a new family after being treated this bad, the family would just deal with a heartbreak soon after.

I have a pit bull myself and I have to say he is the SWEETEST little dog I could ever have, and I would be devastated if he got put down for fighting, but I would be more devastated if he went to a new home and hurt someone, for any reason. They really don't realize how strong they are sometimes and dogs, especially those that have been bred/raised to fight, do like to play rough.

Phil, it is your belief about animals that will help perpetuate these crimes against animals. Saying "these are just animals", yes they are animals, that when treated kindly and cared for do not rise to the level of the animal, man that you seem to think is better more worthy of life. Since everyone of us commenting here are human, it really takes the "question of who is more worthy of life" and stacks the deck against the animals from the start.

So, if I understand your thoughts and comment, you have little problem with these animals being trained to kill each other for human gain, but to place Vick and his "peers" in a human fighting ring is worse? Vick and others like him are the true "brutal animals" here, and deserve nothing less than what they force of animals.

We place humans in prison for IMO, ridiculous drug "crimes" that are not violent or hurt anyone else for decades. Yet, Vick gets two years HOME confinement (most don't realize this), for the murder of hundreds of animals in horrific ways. I believe for us to ever become even slightly civilized, all life will have to have "some" value, in and of themselves.

Paul Hester

As an owner of 4 rescues from Detroit, I would be more than happy to join you! All of these sick, twisted individuals need a dose of what they're handing out!

Mcinoh, I'd be happy to bring my Pit along and help you.

Bought and paid for? Stick to what you know and not what you speculate. Do you know anyone else involved with fighting dogs besides Michael Vicks name? Get involved or move on to the next topic.

joe, no i don't know any other people involved with dog fighting cause he's the only famous one and to know others i'd have to associate with that type of scum. ps, lovig that vick is almost broke again AND being benched. i wish him all the worst.

http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/more_sports/report_vick_almost_broke_q28W0FMG6PFS7dny2TiyQO

I'd like to help them get there early, Carol.

as well as employers notified of what kind of scum works for em. they lose their jobs and starve too damn bad.

Names, addresses, phone #'s of all in attendance should be published so those of us around them can know who they are and what kind of folks they are. They should face public condemnation.

I'm more for public hanging, myself.

Y'know, one way to make sure they get a maximum penalty is to charge them under the RICO Act, the federal law that forbids organized crime. What they're doing is a crime and they organized it across state lines, so we can always hope...

I think people who are cruel to animals should be treated the same way sex offenders are treated. They should have their names on a registry and have to introduce themselves to their new neighbors with details of their crimes. These people are sick on a whole other level. It is known that cruelty to animals is linked to other criminal activity such as sociopathy and serial murder.

I agree Berecca... it might also prevent a lot of "re-adoption" of animals by the same people. People like this should not be allowed to have animals for any reason. They will never introduce themselves when they move into a neighborhood, but a notice in the mail like the one I received when a sex offender moved into my neighborhood would be a wonderful thing if extended to cases of animal abuse as well.

Look up 'Animal offender registry...there's been a push for a while by animal rights activists to have a National Animal Abuse Registry just like the sex offender registry but it hasn't happened yet.

I can't grasp how people can stand there and watch an animal maul another. I mean, nature is nature and it DOES happen but not like this. HOW CAN YOU STAND THERE AND WATCH IT!!!

does it feel nice to act like a tough guy on the internet?

Please take your own advice Jenny and "go away".

Wow again Jenny. You defend these horrible monsters that MADE these dogs fight...and you say kill the innocent dogs. I pray to God you never, ever have animals as pets... becuase.. obviously...the first time one of them does something you don't like you'll probably have them killed.

Jenny, you're getting almost as annoying as Chad. Take your own advice and skeedaddle.

Jenny isn't defending the people that are fighting these dogs. She is questioning the internet tough guys/women that always chime in with what they would do given "five minutes alone" or the "send them to me " types. You know.... the same pharmacy cotton soft loud mouths that just stand around with their camera phones recording violence so they can post it on you tube, right along with the ones that turn away or walk away because the are afraid to get involved.

Dear Jenny,

Some of us act like tough guys and some of us really are. Personally, I am 6'4" and 240 pounds and would love to take on any of these dog handlers. I will even let you watch. And then you can console the poor SOB after I break several of his limbs. I have been in a few fights in my life and so far haven't lost any. (Army training maybe) I am by and large a gentle man but a few things will posh me past my limits this is one. I am almost 60 but I do gaurantee not 1 of these handlers would stand a chance with me. Now if you would like to comment on ther act of dog fighting please do but I'm sure you will get plenty of arguements about this activity you seem to like so much.

Sorry Paul, I have no interest in your vigilante thuggery. Real men don't resort to violence when they don't have to.

@ Rachel

You got it right there. This thread reminds me of a dogfight. How ironic.

Dear Jenny,

Your aguements make little if any sense. In another post you argue to put the dogs down as the state budget is stretched thin enough without try to save these dogs. But I offer you a way to avoid trying to putting these men on trial and "rehabilitating" them and it's internet thuggery. It seems you like these dogfights or is it just that you have no use for animals. You attempt to demean any and all who are in favor of giving these "thugs" what they deserve. You ridicule many on here and tell how easy it is to be a tough guy on the internet. But I wonder --- would you be nearly as vocal in your defense of these criminals in a face to face aguement or are you to just being tough because you are anonymous?

Quite honestly, I doubt more than a select few people here would fare very well after "five minutes alone" with Michael Vick...just saying....

dogfighting is a "black sport"... Some proud Illini residents I'm sure ran the ring... low life MF'rs!!!

How about this. Take the money that would be used to feed and care for the dog fighters and pay to take care of the victims.....I.E. the dogs. If any of the dog fighters wanted to eat in prison let them beg from other inmates or maybe relatives could come up with funds.

The point is not one red cent should be spent on the perps until everything that could possibly be done to ease the suffering of these abused animals. No costly trial, just let em rot in a cell 24/7.

USA,that's too good for these scum. We should put them in an Octagon with a pack of feral dogs and watch while they're torn apart by the dogs.

I agree with newsjunki1,They all need to be put to death like they were doing to those poor dogs.Dogs are too be loved,they are suppose to be mans best friend,don't know what the world has come to,just saying.

Wow...you are SO right...everything is upside down! So nice to see that I'm not the only one who thinks this way.

what about people mistreating people?

Um hello Jenny. People can defend themselves.

It's sad but not all people can defend themselves. Look at the Jews and Hitler. Or Africa massacres.

NO LIVING CREATURE deserves to be abused... Fish, Animal, or human..

@Jenny...Are you really that ignorant or are you just f#$%ing with us? Because people are disavowing dog fighting does not mean they are advocating the mistreatment of people. This article is not about people. It is about dogs...get it? Just can't control that "post" finger, huh? Think!!! Think before you post. You are really annoying.

the irony of your comment. priceless.

And what about your comments Jenny....the only thing you've done is put other people down for their ...yes... overly drastic reactions... because they actually feel compassion and sadness for what these dogs have gone through...you...on the other hand have only said we should kill these poor dogs.... how pathetic is your life that you find the time and energy to defend these scum and insist the dogs should be killed??? I'm wondering if you're also the type of person to abuse weaker animals/people.

Brooke you hate on men much, I am sure they're some women out there that enjoy sitting there with these men.

people you are giving jenny what she wants...she wants a reaction so just ignore her. we all know she is ignorant and obviously has some issues..no more responses to her please

HA..Good point. She has to be trolling. I will hit the ignore button. She really got my hackles up, though. My bad for letting her get under my skin.

At least the people in cage fights have a choice whether or not to be there

@ Bill...

It most definitely is NOT the same...mixed martial arts participants choose to take part in their "sport". The dogs and roosters involved in dogfights and cockfights have no choice; it is forced upon them by their cruel and sadistic human "caretakers".

I work in an animal shelter, and see firsthand the damage; both physical and emotional, that is done to these animals; not to mention the pain we go through as shelter workers, knowing that 99% of them will be euthanized. The vast majority of these animals cannot be re-homed after they have been conditioned to fight; not because they are inherently vicious, but because the shelters' liability is too great. Most of the dogs are very sweet-natured with people....but put them in an enclosed area with another dog (think of your kitchen at feeding time)....and bloody mayhem is likely to ensue. And should your toddler happen to be in the way, well, the dog may just think of the child as yet another "bait animal".

Dogfighters should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law; including fines, prison time, prohibition from owning a firearm as well as being permitted from owning another pet....EVER!!

sheldean;

From one animal shelter volunteer to another--keep your chin up and keep trying! Thanks for your service!

Actually I was more thinking along the lines of smearing them with some of Mama's best gravy and let the dogs they starved have at em.

No surprise here....show us the photos of the perps..!!

Probably will never see photos. Wonder why. Hey man, it's a cultural thing. Yea, right.

You can partially see one of them on the film clip. If you watch it, you won't be surprised one bit. Nuff said?

You can partially see one of them on the film clip. If you watch it, you won't be surprised one bit. Nuff said?

This is for farmall48...are you insinuating that they are black?? that is so uncalled for and extremely racist. and I know everyone will ask..I'm white but is doesn't matter. They could be black, white, yellow or green..what they did is wrong!!! Just because there may be a lot of black people that do it doesn't mean that only black people do it. I'm just not sure why you even brought up race just like I'm not sure why everyone starting going off about religion. Neither has anything to do with this story.

As for the people involved in this dog fighting ring... they deserve a very harsh punishment. They can't go around doing this to innocent animals. It breaks my heart.

Good grief. I live in (way) upstate NY, where 90% percent of the people are white, and there are dog fighting rings run by whites. Cruelty and ignorance are not being cornered by any particular color of skin.

One bit of good news; in 2007 a law was passed on the Federal level so that now the FBI can become involved. The penalties are fines up to $250,000 and 3 years in jail for people who bring fighting dogs across state lines. I can't find it right now, but there is a toll free number you can call in tips to.

@Lizzie I didn't imply color at all, hon.....you did....nice job. My observation was that they were smarmy looking losers......typical of the caliber of people who would fight dogs. You chose to make it about race. Baiter.

i we did that you would need an ambulance, tough guy.

I can appreciate the attitude, but I believe the comment is "Don't let your tiger mouth overpower your butterfly balz"....

Dave,

Please save me a peice of them too.....

Matter of fact....I'll bring friends and some snacks......We shall make a party of hurting these scum bags....

Rob.

I am so sick of seeing this. When are people going to learn that the only thing these babies give you is love. They dont ask for much in return. This breaks my heart..Thank you Rob Tower god needs angels like you..

Does anyone know where Mike Vick was? Oh I forgot it was not his fault, he was raised different so it's out fault.

Definitely, there is a type of life and upbringing people have that produces people that find no wrong in fighting dogs and roosters. I know of one. He was raised that way. He grew up dirt poor and was looked down upon by society at every turn in his life, as was his family and relatives. Animals were the only thing they found that was beneath them on the pecking order. Fast forward years later, and he has become a different man. He ended up getting divorced and living alone with only a dog for family. He had to put her down a few days ago and he has been sobbing his heart out. He grew to love her, respect her and care deeply for her. Life experiences changed him. Through a dog he learned to love and be loved.

Rebecca, Amazing how you praise god and the non believers should not breath american air. I love watching the so claimed bible thumpers drink and drive, beat their kids, cheat on their wives and pray to god for help, as I'm sure these dog fighters are. Trash your bible and pick up a science book. being moral has nothing to do with god. It's no wonder why you elitist retards sget attention. You should listen to what your shoveling.

The state neend to increase jail time for these people who fight animals, or abuse them. I believe these people are sick in the head and if it was up to me i'd lock them up and throw away the key. No human has the right to be on the streets if they are capable of putting these animals through this kind of torture..If they can be so heartless to do this to animals they are the same people who will beat their kids and kill another human being. No words can describe the pain i feel for these poor animals. They did not ask to be raised by heartless people they want to be loved, spoiled and well taken care of like every other animal out there. The Lord is not a evil God he is a Loving God, thats why he isn't responsible to these selfish peoples actions. He allows everyone to make their own decisions and clearly these people are not capable of making wise, healthy and mature decisions. I hope Law Enforecment Steps up their game and people get involved and turn these people in so we can get them off the streets!!!! Adults need to teach the young that ANIMAL ABUSE IS WRONG! If we as adults dont teach this to the younger generation they will think its ok to abuse animals. To all those IDIOTS out there who are abusing animals, Karmas a BITCH and I'm sure one day KARMA WILL BITE U IN THE ASS.....& I HOPE ITS WORSE THATN THE ABUSE U PUT THESE POOR ANIMALS THROUGH!!!!

Just because a person claims to be a Christian "bible thumper" doesn't mean they are perfect. We are all sinners. Unfortunately there are those who think that it's ok to keep on sinning as long as they show up for church and put on a self rightous facade. We all need God. Some choose to put up a protective wall and put others down for believing in God, but I can assure you deep down under all the layers of hurt and disappointment, these are the people who are crying out the loudest for God.

Most of the comments left concerning this matter are very disappointing. The first response concerning such a thing is to mourn. Almost everyone here has jumped straight to extreme punishment.

Given the level of anger and bitterness concern a half dozen dogs, I wonder what so many of you think about the problem of the sex-trade in the US or unfair sentencing mandates in our criminal justice system? What about using animals for drug testing? What are you doing about this issue or any other issue that has to be considered of greater relative importance? Everyone so offended by this must be vegian.

The problem with this medium is that people say things that they would never say face to face. That some of the respondents have concerning Mike Vick is very distrubing. Ok Vick hurt a few dogs. But do you really believe that he should be killed for such a thing? What would not qualify for the death penalty? How does such extreme punishment comport with a love of life and living creatures?

What should be done about those who mislead the nation into a needless war which has resulted in countless deaths and injuries, both American and Iraqi? What should be done about the those who have preyed upon the most vulnerable of our society, robo signing forclosures or that knowingly manufacture and sell defective products? These are all rhetorical questions. I do not expect an answer.

The post thus far have lacked clear thinking and reflection on this issue.

Dude .... you been smoking too much meth in the basement!!

Gee Jenny, from your perspective a child who has been battered and abused should probably not be given counseling to ensure that child might grow into a productive adult. Let's just let the kid be a misfit - after all - it might cost money. Prehaps battered women shouldn't have any money wasted on them either. Any creature who is abused has a right for money to be spent to ensure care and kindness are shown. Look at all the MONEY WASTED by this country.

Vicious Ignorant Cruel Killers... the penalty must be much more severe. Vick is only "changed" because of all the money he has received. ANIMAL ABUSERS AND PEDOPHILES NEVER CHANGE.

can we please drop these people off in the middle of alaska and let them try to survive and find their way back to civilization? Those that make it (lol) can then just be shot. I own two pits and nothing enrages me more than these damn dog fighting rings. These people should just be shot. No questions asked just shot.

We could always throw them into a pit of crocodiles, it would be more humane AND more entertaining as well.

Its is so inhumane to let animals torture each other. We want to throw those scum bags 6 feet under or at least give them a bite of there own behaviors. Somehow in society we make it tolerable to kill animals to eat, but just as those who fight dogs for entertainment, there's the crowd who hunt--deer, birds, other game, usually for entertainment. Why is there a double standard? Is it because of what we were told and raised as through life? Must remember that there are countless cultures in America, and therefore these cultures do what they were influenced to do. A human can easily judge one who kills or tortures a animal, and we say cruel things about them, yet no one reaches out to fix the situation. Stop throwing stones at the problem, instead find a way to fix the event.