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John Makely / NBC News
The Breezy Point neighborhood of Queens, where more than 100 homes burned when Superstorm Sandy hit.
Scroll to bottom of story to see a 360 degree panorama of the fire zone.
BREEZY POINT, N.Y. -- This private community, which has fended off previous existential threats, is now facing its “greatest historical challenge” as a result of Superstorm Sandy, with some residents questioning whether they can afford to rebuild and others wondering if the resurrected beachside community will bear any resemblance to its bucolic former self.
A halting first step on what figures to be a long road back took place Thursday evening, when the Breezy Point Cooperative Inc. Board held its first post-Sandy shareholders meeting at a Catholic high school in Brooklyn.
More than 1,000 residents of the community founded by Irish immigrants around the turn of the 20th century packed the meeting, which was closed to the media and members of the general public.
According to residents who attended, the board discussed applications for emergency Small Business Administration loans, the status of efforts to restore various utilities, demolitions and a disaster recovery fund, planned infrastructure improvements and other topics.
But some of those interviewed as they left said that their biggest concerns weren’t addressed.
“In the long run, it seems like things are going to take a lot of time,” said Rob Moran, a 38-year-old construction worker who attended with his wife, Carinne Bach. “A lot of questions are still up in the air right now.”
Bob Esposito, a former police officer whose home sustained water damage, said he was pleased to hear about infrastructure improvements, but wished the board had at least touched on the bigger issues that are weighing on residents’ minds.
“They were prepared to give a lot of information out, which we all needed to hear, but I think they are very reluctant on answering the hard-core questions,” he said.
Sandy smacked into the village on the southeastern tip of the city’s Rockaway peninsula the night of Oct. 29, unleashing floodwaters that surged through the bungalows and bigger, newer homes, tearing some of the former off their foundations. The flooding also may have sparked a fire that burned down more than 100 of the 2,800 homes in Breezy Point.
John Makely / NBC News
Heavily damaged homes along Oceanside Drive in Breezy Point, N.Y.
The tight-knit community, home to many generations of numerous families, is only beginning to grapple with the wide-ranging consequences. Debris is slowly being cleared and power restored, but the water system is still shut down and demolition of the roughly 200 homes that sustained the worst damage -- including what remains of those in the fire zone -- has yet to begin.
Breezy Point, which was largely self-sufficient before the storm, is receiving assistance from the city as it attempts to jump-start its recovery. But officials and residents acknowledge that they have only begun to regroup.
Cooperative board Chairman Joseph Lynch declined an interview request from NBC News to discuss the current situation, but in an online statement to shareholders posted Nov. 16 he wrote, “This storm and its destruction have presented our Cooperative its greatest historical challenge, which will take time to overcome.”
In a later message posted just before Thanksgiving, he said that “the economic challenge for some in this regard will be a true test and hardship,” before ending on an optimistic note:
“In spite of this very serious setback I am confident that our Cooperative will also continue to grow, evolve, and prosper as it has over the past fifty-two years,” he said. “We also have no other choice.”
But other community members, including at least one co-op board member, are less sanguine about the prospects of the largely middle-class neighborhood, home to many firefighters, police officers and sanitation workers.
“Unfortunately, I’m afraid it may cause some people to leave the community,” said Marty Ingram, fire chief of the Point Breeze volunteer firefighters and a member of the co-op board, though stressing that he was speaking only for himself. “I hope it doesn’t. But it’s going to have an impact.”
Ingram said the community would pull together and he believed would offer some “quiet” financial aid to help people who can’t otherwise afford to rebuild.
Mary Elizabeth Smith, a lifelong resident and author of “A History of Breezy Point,” noted that the community, which started out as more of a summer getaway spot for working-class families and slowly morphed into a charming residential enclave with intimate sand lanes running between homes, has proven remarkably resilient over the years.
Courtesy of Mary Quinn
Mary Quinn, now 59, stands with her parents and older brothers as a little girl in Breezy Point in front of their bungalow, which was the typical type of housing in the community's earlier days. Quinn's family moved to the community full time in the early 1960s. She rebuilt the house in 1994.
The Breezy Point Cooperative was created in 1960 when residents learned that the 800-acres on which their homes stood had been quietly sold to a developer interested in building seaside high-rises. A group of homeowners went door-to-door collecting $500 from each family to raise an initial $75,000 defense fund, she said, and the group was ultimately able to buy back 400 acres for $12 million.
The co-op has been an oasis of economic stability in the decades since, paying off its communal mortgage years ago. That prosperity was in part due to the board’s initial ban on mortgage loans -- a requirement that was eventually relaxed to allow buyers to put 50 percent down on a home and finance the remainder. As a result, Ingram said that not a single Breezy Point home was foreclosed on during the housing crisis that erupted in 2008.
Smith said the credit belongs “to our ancestors … (who) really took a major chance, put up money in a belief in something that did not occur anywhere else in the United States: a community of houses that owned the land underneath them.”
The city briefly considered making Breezy Point a public park in 1962, but protests from residents and the developer scotched that effort. Then, after the National Park Service took title to land to the west and east after the same developer ran into financial problems, the cooperative went to federal court to battle with its new neighbor over ownership of newly formed sand flats, winning the rights to the land in 1982.
“A lot of people who live there today have no idea of the battles that were fought to get this property,” said Smith, 62, who was about 9 when the fight began to save Breezy Point, “and that’s why people really don’t want to leave the place. I’m certainly one of them.”
Moran and Bach are among the residents hoping they can rebuild their bungalow, which may have to be demolished.
The home, which was built by Bach’s deceased father, was inundated by a couple of feet of raw sewage and water, has a slight tilt and apparently some problems with the foundation. Though city inspectors indicated in two initial inspections that they should be able to rebuild, the couple fears it needs more than a repair and they may have to start anew.
John Makely / NBC News
Rob Moran, 38, cleans out the flooded basement of his home in Breezy Point, N.Y., on Dec. 1, 2012. Moran and his wife Carinne Bach, 38, are asking building inspectors to re-assess their home, which they fear may not be safe to live in.
With a Dec. 31 deadline set to apply for a free demolition provided by the city, they had hoped to learn at Thursday’s co-op board meeting how the building codes might change as a result of Sandy’s incursion, especially whether rebuilt homes might need to be elevated to lessen the likelihood of future flooding. But they left empty-handed.
“We got a little information, but I’m sure not quite as much as everybody had hoped,” said Bach, 38, a dance and fitness instructor who is several months pregnant. “I don’t think it’s for a lack of trying. I just think there’s so much red tape and so much unknown.”
“As far as where we’re to go from here, there’s not a clear road map,” she added.
New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg hinted on Thursday that building code changes should be expected for waterfront areas, noting that “we can’t just rebuild what was there and hope for the best.”
John Makely / NBC News
A FEMA inspector works amid the burned homes in Breezy Point.
“As you can see, the yardstick has changed -- and so must we,” he added. “FEMA is currently in the process of updating their (flood) maps -- and those maps will guide us in setting new construction requirements.”
If new, more-stringent building requirements are put in place, many fear the expense will drive out some longtime residents, particularly the elderly and families that have kept summer or part-time homes -- about 40 percent of the residences -- there for decades.
Laurie Cerra is struggling to keep the small green bungalow that had been in her family for about 85 years. She swept the floors, filled garbage bags and struggled to hold back tears last week as volunteers used crowbars to rip down the walls. The home received a red card -- meaning it was unsafe to enter -- from inspectors, but she was doing the work in a bid to save the damaged foundation.
“I’m trying to separate myself from this, I really am. I spent every summer here … growing up. I’m really hoping I can repair the foundation,” said Cerra, 54, a dietitian from Greenfield Township, Pa.
But because she can’t get coverage from the Federal Emergency Management Agency, which doesn’t provide emergency aid on second homes, and has not heard from her homeowners' insurance for wind damage coverage in three weeks, she can’t afford to rebuild in the short term.
John Makely / NBC News
Laurie Cerra, a registered dietitian from Pennsylvania, stands in the living room of her Breezy Point, N.Y., home on Dec. 1, 2012, as volunteers help her remove debris. Cerra is hoping she can save the damaged foundation and rebuild the home, which has been in her family for about 85 years.
“Maybe in, I don’t know, three or four years, if I get (the) foundation, then I can do it myself. I can try and do sheetrock myself,” she said. “At this point, no, it’s just going to be out of my savings account to rebuild.”
The co-op board is implicitly acknowledging the financial threat. In a statement posted online on Saturday, it said Breezy Point homeowners can now borrow, over the next two years, up to 80 percent of their home’s appraised value, or up to $500,000, to repair or replace their properties.
It also waived one part of the “carrying charges” -- monthly fees that include garbage collection, road and building maintenance, property tax and security services -- for the owners of about 300 homes that were destroyed or significantly damaged.
Lynch, the co-op board chairman, had upset some residents by reminding them that it is “really important” that shareholders continue to pay the fees “as our corporation will face real financial challenges and pressure in the immediate future.”
Lifelong resident Kim Dillon was among those who felt the tone was wrong so soon after the disaster.
“Our lives are in disarray and I don’t think their first contact with us should have been … ‘we’re still expecting maintenance fees’ when there’s people that don’t have houses,” said Dillon, 43, whose family is one of two that have moved back onto their block, even though there is still no running water.
But Dillon said her neighbors, who were like family, would be back, though she acknowledged her hometown would change as a result of the devastation.
“It’s going to be sad to see the bungalows gone, because that was like old Breezy Point,” she said, referring to the area known as “the wedge,” where the six-alarm fire burned so hot that stormy night. “I don’t think there’s going to be many -- if any -- left.”
Follow this link to view the panoramic of Breezy Point full-screen.
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Leave a Comment:
Then your only alternative is wait for the next hurricane to wipe you out again.
Oh my God New York, could you move on with your lives already? So tired of hearing about what's going on in that ridiculous city...
This may end up being the fate of many charming coastal towns. Eventually it won't pay to live there anymore. Shame. It sounded like a really nice place with a strong sense of community.
The critics of Bush and FEMA during Katrina are eerily silent this time? Hmm?
Yes, Breezy Point please do rebuild. Please use steel framed building with a complete building envelop including closed-cell spray foam which combined with the steel frame can withstand cat 11 hurricane winds. Energywise is a great company to seek the information from. Also, there is a little book from bayer called The Foam Book, it is a great tool and can help you lobby for this.
You can become the leaders in this, which is a serious issue becuase of the cost to cool and heat a home. With all the above included on the rebuild you could save lives, monthly cost of electricity and much more. Please consider this.
there are some homes from Katrina and Ike that were done by the make a wish foundation, building science, and the steel frame company that have all of these done...look them up.
Travis from New England: Did you say,"MOVE ON??? SERIOUSLY??? We are trying Travis, but you know, things are just a little bit tough down here right now. Not only New York City, but large parts of Long Island and New Jersey have suffered unbelievable loss and destruction. And the way the insurance companies and FEMA are treating us, it wont be fixed anytime soon. Cant be imagined unless you actually experience it for yourself. (My apologies if you have) One friend of mine was standing in front of a collapsed burned out hole that used to be his home. He was literally, inconsolably, in tears. I didn't even know what to say to him... Probably nothing useful at that moment that I could have said. But "just move on" certainly didn't pop into my mind. Many people down here will probably never see their homes or their old neighborhoods and in some cases their loved ones, ever again. Think it looks bad on the news? If you've ever seen what it looks and feels like for real, standing in the middle of this sad horrible mess, you might change your opinion.
Re name it Hurricane Sandy Point and make a public beach out of it. Much cheaper in the long run and more enjoyable for many more people
True insanity is doing the same thing over and over and waiting for different results
More importantly, can Breezy Point, N.Y. survive after Barrack Hussein, all the politicians and incompetent government programs fail again?
Where is all the pomp and ceremony that we were all privileged to watch in the immediate aftermath of Sandy?
Where are all the photo-ops, back-slapping and glad-handing that the media flooded the airways with just before the elections. Seems the affected just aren't newsworthy enough anymore.
Sorry Sandy Point, there's not enough political capital to be gained by wasting anymore time on your plight. The politico's are firmly entrenched in their favorite bogeyman, the fiscal-cliff. The mythical cliff which if not corrected in the next 23 days will crash ours and the global economies.
Of course it doesn't occur to the illiterate, unwashed masses that re-elected Barrack Hussein that we've had 4 years to avoid this scenario if only he did "focus like a laser" on the economy. Of course the indoctrinated Barrack Hussein chair-sniffers actually believed that you can run the biggest government in the world WITHOUT A BUDGET!!!!!
Of course this is based on their convoluted belief that Barrack Hussein has some mythical experience in economics and fiscal management because he arranged a few picnics in Chicago as a community organizer and wrote a couple books, about himself. Obviously this is all the reason the Liberal/Progressive cabal need to believe anything.
So, I wouldn't be expecting any significant help until the spring. That's when the next "green-shoots" will be rising as our economy limps along. But hey, I'm sure Barrack Hussein will be thinking about you all as he golfs in Hawaii in a few weeks.
Remember, you didn't build that and the private sector is doing just fine.
Remember, the politicians hate 2 things.
1. People who are intolerant of disaster victims.
2. Sandy Point complainers.
MJ899 - I suppose you'd be just fine if your house were leveled by a tornado and the government seized your land and turned your neighborhood into a public playground for disadvantaged children right? After all, if you rebuild your home only you will enjoy it, but if we made your lot into a playground the laughter of countless children will be heard right?
Obama cares about the folks in Breezy Point about as much as those in Breezy Point care about him.
I am amazed anyone owning a second home or an income-producing home would think they should get public help to rebuild. I am amazed the Jersey Shore communities who support themselves by implementing various shemes, often with their police force, to cheat and even imprison tourists from NYC and PA (shoobies; Google it) would expect any help from the public.
I am amazed that the pathetic media hasn't noted how well the people who have lost the most in this storm are managing so well by themselves when the Katrina victims in New Orleans acted pathetically and incompetently.
Xina...It was the water which damaged the properties, though admittedly it was wind driven, something a tornado is incapable of doing, that is generating a storm surge. Storm surges, flooding, earthquake zones, volcanic slides all can be predicted to occur at a certain location, whereas a tornado's path can't be. If you're at, or below a certain elevation, your property can be subject to flooding. In the case of coastal areas this flooding can be the result of rain, storm surges, or tsunami's, whereas interior properties could not be inundated by storm surges and tsunami's.
The residents who will be most impacted are the older residents. They cannot live long enough to see things return to "normal". ( Take for instance the Exxon Valdez oil spill. ) Government will force building code changes for coastal residents, or restrict rebuilding all together. This is because all tax payers have a 'stake' in the building codes. Assuming a limited number of structures can be rebuilt, the owners of the new structures aren't required to have the same regional cultural backgrounds as the previous residents. Families and children will move away, and a new culture will develop in the region. The families which have to move will have to adjust to their new homes, and new locations. Thus the ability to preserve a neighborhood "feeling" is close to, if not impossible. When the devastated Germany rebuilt after WWII, it didn't rebuild to pre war architecture and standards, and thus a new economy arose with different technology applications. There's no such thing as a steel and foam bungalow.
Xina the Asse Hole some
You need to understand how geological forces work before you make stupid statements. Coast lines and sandy beaches are always going to change. If you think you are above it all, you will just end up under it or washed away. tornadoes are not allowed where I live and the house is built on solid granite so even earthquakes are not a problem.
build them some caves to live in...it's so easy a cave man can do it...
Travis:
What Pete said is right. There are lots of wonderful people in NY and many native New Yorkers may seem tough, an outward shell they need in this expensive, crowded city, but are great, hardworking, resilient folks who will give others the shirts off their backs (or buy a homeless person boots and other things or pull someone from the subway tracks).
My screen name is because NY is soooo expensive to live in, even now, as more and more people from ELSEWHERE choose to come here to live. Thus, they pushed native New Yorkers to the outer boroughs and suburbs, where the houses may be cheaper but the property taxes are brutal. So, for example, if I want to continue doing lots of work for underdogs, human and animal, who can't pay, and the ones who do don't even cover my vet bills, as opposed to high-paying clients, I will have to move someplace much less expensive.
Many foreign countries know all about the top schools on Long Island. So, for example, a software engineer I worked with heard of my choices in areas and he said he knew them all even when he was back in India. His extended family chipped in $150K each and now all live together in a house in one of the top school districts, and those towns are high-priced Thus, the people living there, already paying $15K+ a year in property taxes and paid a lot to live in Garden City, Dix Hills, Jericho, etc. now have to have a house full of people, including a dozen or more kids, cars all over, living next door. This is not a racial or ethnic slur-I wouldn't want 20+ Norwegian people living next door.
As Pete stated, NY and NJ have suffered massively from Sandy. We are not crying pitifully and, as mentioned, many New Yorkers are not lousy people. It is just that these victims need help and it is not coming. How would YOU react if no help came, not even from your own home insurance company you dutifully paid for 10,20,30 years.
Cant' believe how many coldhearted and dumb people have posted here....You best hope sometihng like this never happens to you.
MJ - my point is that disasters can happen anywhere at any time. There is not a place on earth where Tornado are "not allowed"........wow.
Anyway, your home could catch fire, it could be buried in a mudslide, a sinkhole could open underneath you.... on and on.
And Steve Hebert - you accuse me of not understanding what happened, I assure you I understand better than most of the people on here. I live in the area hardest hit in NJ. This was far more than a normal storm surge. I've lived through various stronger hurricanes here. This was unprecedented. My grandparents home in Union Beach was built right after my grandfather returned from WWII. It was built next to his parents farm house on the family land. In 67 years it never flooded. My great grandparents home never experienced flooding in the 94 years since it was built. Until Sandy.
Let me make something very clear, these are not second homes. These are family homes that were built when immigrant families first moved to the area. I don't care about the vacation homes that are lost, I care about the teachers and mechanics and bus drivers and dock workers and fishing boat captains who are all homeless now, entire towns having been leveled in a single night. It's horrific seeing it in person and all you midwesterners who think your sh!t doesn't stink because you don't live near water (but oh please help us when Tornado season acts up again or there's a drought or wildfire!!!) can't possible understand that we're not a bunch of rich snobs out here living a life of leisure on the sand. Especially given that your perfect midwestern states have been taking in more federal taxes than you paid for decades while states like NY and NJ have been paying more than they received for just as long.
It's called compassion and it doesn't cost a thing. IF anything, conservatives should be appalled that it's even being debated whether or not to help our own people when we send $50 BILLION in aid to foreign countries every year.
And Travis, you say you live in New England but we all know you really reside in the state of Douche.
The odd thing about this is that the people who had their homes burn down are going to turn out to be the lucky ones. Most homeowners insurance does not cover flood damage, so those who lost their homes to flooding will not likely get much if any help from insurance to rebuild. On the other hand, virtually all homeowners insurance covers fire damage. This means that those who had their homes burn down will get the insurance companies to pay for rebuilding their homes. I know this sounds a little sick to say, but those who had their homes burn truly may turn out to be the lucky ones in this disaster, at least when compared to those who had their homes damaged or destroyed by the storm itself. In any case, those who rebuild are in all likelihood going to have to comply with new building codes and probably elevate their homes. I doubt that Breezy Point will ever look anything like it did before the storm.
You're probably right, JS, but it's more important for Breezy to feel like the same place than to look like it.
Xena...Not to pop your bubble, but I was in the Coast Guard and as such in 5 storms at sea with sustained winds over 100 mph on search and rescue missions. I've been involved in 3, 500 year flooding events, 4 different volcanic activity events, the Exxon Valdez oil spill, and currently my first drought. I have extensive experience and education in storm wave mitigation, and have influenced a fair amount of public policy, far more than most.
Storm surge and storm generated wave damage as the public experienced is common to human history. What is available now to the public is information and warning systems, which didn't exist back in the days of Galveston, Texas' tragic event when storm warnings were too little too late. In the case of Katrina, the US Coast Guard fished victims out of the soup and got them to a failed system on land. The rescued people had days of advanced warning, but chose to ignore due to cultural attitudes for the most part. In the case of Sandy, again the cultural value of living close to the beach has to be taken into account, not that the families are immigrant stock or not.
In the case of Japan's tsunami damage... Japan is an island. It's surrounded by water, It's also in a geologic active zone. The people prepared for the wrath of the ocean, and were still overcome. They don't have land surplus to squander in decision making. New York does. It's called developing to the west away from areas prone to storm surges. It's called living on higher ground. It's called restricting residential housing in flood plains. If you don't have those options, I'm not sure there are enough words of sympathy to help you out. Not all Coast Guard rescues are successful in saving lives. Not all fire department rescue attempts are successful in saving lives. I'm sure during a storm at sea at 2:00 AM when they call Xena out to fish someone out of the soup, you'll figure that out. And then you can ask yourself, " Why, with all the warnings, did this victim think they were too good to suffer the wrath of water. "
Travis,
I see they can take you out of Russia, but they can't take the Russia out of you. (Meanwhile in Russia)...
Take a good look at the photo's. There were 16 foot high pounding waves 14 blocks into the community but I figure by your post, you don't care anyway.
I Resigned nailed it.
Have a nice day...
This damage was caused from reported 6 foot waves and and a very small hurricane, cat 1. As devastating as it was to those homes and people the damage could have been relative minor if they had modern codes applied. I'm sure any rebuilding with Miami-Dade Andrew codes will enable them to survive the next cat 1 storm.
In Florida most people don't even leave their homes and sustain almost no damage from a cat 1 storm. We have rebuilt with the newer codes and if not rebuilt applied them from mandatory insurance regulations. Good luck Breezy Point I'm sure you will come back stronger than ever.
Why do I have to pay for other peoples homes to be rebuilt again and again?????
Maybe MOVE???
I wish the best for the residents there, and a speedy restoration.
As for the article itself, including a "before" picture would have been nice, as a token of what was, and what may be after the restoration. I do appreciate the placement of the 360 degree view,as my imagination could not conceive of what the area looks like now.
go to g oole earth
You
guy's need to learn what we guys have learned on the Gulf Coast... Don't build
on the coast unless it is expendable.
Nature intended this dune on the coast and barrier islands to be that a
barrier. Nature builds them… nature
tears them down and builds them again….
Or repeat the mistakes of the past spend a lot of money builds them
again and within the normal course of nature it will take it away….
It's tempting to think that Sandy was once in a lifetime event, but, news flash...this is a sample of the cost of burning fossil fuels and is the new normal. Rebuild there and they will be wiped out again.
New normal, really? I'd bet you a thousand dollars this type of storm has hit this particluar area many times these past 15k years since ice age ended!!!
Kiernan.....................Uh, prove it.
You have no concept of what Nature is capable of... one need not "prove" anything... Morons like yourself who build houses on a beachfront sandbar, (which is what that whole strip of land really is) thinking the forces of nature will never harm them from the wrath of the ocean is pure idiocy, it is quite obvious it will happen again and again in due time.
Inkabob.....................Morons like myself? Morons like you who assume I live up there. I'm nowhere near, you frigging idiiot. You have no idea what's hit where, and you have no idea that global warming is not true. Try really really hard to pull your head out of your azz.
hey "So Sick of the Gop" ...Leave my azz alone you pervert!!
Global warming is a joke... The media dares not report what is really going on, scientists are told to shut up or loose their funding from the government. The outer planets are getting hotter, not because of what we are doing...it's because the Sun is putting out more radiation and flares because of Nibiru (google it)
SoSickoftheGop - Actually it did happen, in 1938/39 (don't remember which) - Hurricane just about destroyed Montauk, tossed trains around like toys, hammered the Eastern Seaboard heading north.
"The outer planets are getting hotter..."
InkaBob that is flat out BS.
The Earth has been warming in spite of low solar activity, pull your head out of your... ...the sand. The media dares not report on climate change because there is conservative bias, that is the tendency to downplay the reality of climate change, the myth that the media has a liberal bias is just that, a myth, with no basis in reality. It's simple Physics folks, some Co2 is needed to keep the planet warm, but too much and it gets more than just warm, it gets too hot. Current life on this planet is geared for a moderate level of Co2, not the levels we have now and are going to get to if current rates of emission are left unchecked. The planet is slow to react to such a sudden change (on a geologic time scale) in Co2 levels, but it has been reacting and it will react in a way that will hit home to all of us sooner than we should like.
InkaBob
Thank you.... These Al Gore (Gore a last name like that what do you think he would talk about) nuts blame the recent Solar Flares on Man Kind and have NO Idea what a Major Flare will do to the earth.
Rightly Concerned
Lets cut down some more forrest to set up 'Green' Engery operations... After all we all know that trees do noting for our Planet except take up space (oppps... I'm Bad, they also remove Co2)
So Sick of the GOP... Here's your proof. Now what have you got to say that'll make sense?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_New_York_hurricanes
I'm a fan of trees T-R-O, but I don't recall mentioning them in my first post in this thread. We (humanity) put up so much Co2 in the atmosphere every year that the usual carbon sinks (forests, and the ocean) can't soak up all of it, the rest remains in the air--which is why Co2 levels continue to rise every year. It isn't the green energy proponents (organizations & people) doing the logging of the forests, its the organizations & people who want to keep with the status quo (and drive the planet into a hellish climate) that are doing the logging.
Rightly Concerned
Please explain where they are going to put thier new windmills?
"It isn't the green energy proponents (organizations & people) doing the logging of the forests"
Windmills or Wind turbines?
They'll put wind turbines at sea or on hills or in plains devoid of trees, wherever there might be ideal conditions (i.e. lots of wind) for doing so.
Where I live there are wind-turbines on hills which were devoid of trees to begin with, so no trees were harmed in the making of the "windmills" (as you put it.) I highly doubt they'll purposefully cut down as many trees as possible just to put up a wind turbine. It will be unfortunate if they do cut down trees without discretion, but I doubt they would do so.
Sandy was a Category 2 hurricane. Category 2 or above hurricanes hitting New York in the last century:
1938 - Long Island Express (Cat 3)
1954 - Hurricane Carol (Cat 3)
1960 - Hurricane Donna (Cat 2)
1985 - Hurricane Gloria (Cat 2)
In case you can't count, that's four times in one century. I'll leave it to you to decide if that is equivalent to "many times" in 15,000 years.
Rightly Concerned
"They'll put wind turbines at sea or on hills or in plains devoid of trees, wherever there might be ideal conditions (i.e. lots of wind) for doing so."
I do not live on the coast and every Mountain/Hill im my state is covered with trees.. So we cut the trees down to put them up?
The Last Hours of Ancient Sunlight, by Thom Hartmann
but if you take the link from the wiki and look further down you see this...and it appears to be fairly spread out.
Total deaths
NameYearNumber
of deaths
1821 Norfolk and Long Island hurricane
17
1894 Hurricane Five
10
1938New England Hurricane of 1938
60
1944 Great Atlantic Hurricane
6
1954 Hurricane Edna
29
1972 Hurricane Agnes
6
1976 Hurricane Belle
1
1985 Hurricane Gloria
1
1991 Hurricane Bob
2
1994 Tropical Storm Beryl
2
1999 Hurricane Floyd
2
2002 Tropical Storm Cristobal
3
2003 Hurricane Isabel
1
2004 Hurricane Frances
1
2005 Tropical Storm Tammy
1
2011 Hurricane Irene
5
2012 Hurricane Sandy
55
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_New_York_hurricanes
not by deaths but by activity it appears to be fairly regular
oops i forgot to delete the top part of my post...it appears to be spread out but has increased in the last decade.
T-O-R, you mock the reality of climate change, are against green/clean technology, and yet care so much about trees?
That is a hypocritical stance you take. If your state is covered border to border with trees, then logging must be a huge industry where you live. I don't advocate for the indiscriminate cutting of trees, however, if it has been determined that there is enough potential wind power which can be harnessed to justify the discreet cutting of enough trees to put up the wind-turbines (in order to harness such power), I can't argue against it. Especially if the trees cut down are replaced with saplings.
The fact is the U.S. needs to switch to cleaner/greener technologies which will help us on mulitple levels. It will create more jobs via a new manufacturing base. It will lessen our emissions from fossil fuels--which is healthier for Americans and for the planet. It will allow us renewable energy to power our homes and businesses. It will allow American businesses to export the products to other countries and help us prosper. As it is, the fossil fuel industry has delayed our development of such technologies which is allowing our competitors around the world (China and Germany) to take the lead.
We have tools we use to measure our world (that is our planet, our solar system, our galaxy) and everything within it, these tools are called Math and Science. The answers we get from these tools are tested and re-tested many times over until we are certain the answers are correct. If a scientist comes up with an answer to a question, other scientists test the outcome to verify the authenticity and accuracy of the answer. Science by its very nature is skeptical. With these tools we know there is a clear correlation between Co2 levels and the temperature of the Earth going back at least hundreds of millions of years.
The last time the Earth had the Co2 levels we have today (390+ppm), the Earth was warmer and the sea levels were higher. That was millions of years ago. Currently the Earth, its climate, and the species upon it, have developed during an epoch when the Co2 content ranged from 180 to 280 ppm, or the difference between the Ice Age and the interglacial period we are in now in. We have pushed the Co2 content far higher than it has been at any point in that time.
The Earth's climate has slowly been changing from where it would be at 280 ppm before the Industrial Revolution to what it is now 390+ppm. In the span of a human lifetime this change is taking "forever", in a geologic time-span the changes are occurring in the blink of an eye. More than ever, the evidence is piling up--rising sea levels, shrinking glaciers, disappearing Arctic ice cap, intense heatwaves, intense and extended drought, forest die off--the list of crystal clear evidence is long and getting longer.
The climate is still adjusting to reach the equilibrium between the current Co2 levels and what the temperature will be given these Co2 levels. If we stopped all emissions today, this equilibrium would not be reached until the end of the century. The effects we see today are nothing compared to what we will see later when equilibrium has been reached. If we continue with our current rate of emissions, we delay the eventual equilibrium to whatever the Co2 content is when we finally stop such emissions. The Earth we are creating is far different than the one in which we grew up in.
Climate change didn't create this storm called Sandy, but it did make it worse. Usually hurricanes veer off to the east, as weather traditionally travels west to east, but Sandy veered to the west--right into the east coast. Under normal conditions that does not happen. In the future, events like this will continue to happen and as the sea level continues to rise, the effects of these events will continue to get worse. The more people mock the more they make themselves look like fools. The more we delay doing something (ending or severely diminishing fossil fuel emissions) to limit the effects, the greater chance we have of destroying our civilization and of killing off all life on this planet.
We regularly have hurricanes here. Very few hit directly, though we often have them "pass through" as they die on their way north. But prior to 2011 (Irene) the last hurricane to directly hit NJ was in 1903. Not exactly a regular occurrence. (I live and was born and raised in Ocean County NJ)
We regularly have Nor'easters here.
We do not regularly have a nor'easter and a hurricane collide and join forces into some sort of Hybrid super-storm, which is what Sandy was.
Sandy was not a hurricane when it hit. It was a post tropical cyclone.
This kind of damage has not been seen in this area in a hundred years.
Yet the entire states of ND, NE, KS, OK, MO, AR, LA are located in Tornado Alley. Anyone advocating not helping then this spring? Nationally, the burden of wildfires is disproportionally heavily distributed in the southern and western regions. I suppose we should let anyone dumb enough to build in the woods lose everything too, right? And then there are the urban areas that are riddled with crime... Why should our tax dollars be used to provide them with crime prevention? If you're dumb enough to buy a home in the city you deserve to get shot at by gangsters. Yep, let's just let everyone on their own, sink or swim people, it's the American way....
Rightly Concerned, don't waste your time arguing with folks who can't be educated through reason and logic. Once a person believes in crackpot conspiracy theories like "Nibiru" and doesn't believe in science, they only want to hear what they believe. Times-Running-Out, on the other hand, perhaps should do some research on the promising technologies in the field of renewable clean energy--it's a pretty exciting time to live in. Unfortunately, you don't know what the hell you are talking about TRO.
Xina the Awesome, conservatives care a lot about fetuses, but not so much about post-born breathing human beings. I feel for those people--if I were one of them, I would feel so lost and confused about what to do. The rug was pulled out from under them.
The fire department of Neville Township, Pa. is at the Point Breeze Fire Department today, December 8,2012 with 2 fire trucks donated to Marty Ingram and the members of this community. The efforts of the brave men who saw the destruction and did not abandon people and their friends and relatives needs to go forward along with the help of the governments at all levels. The history of this area is also important since this is not a 3rd world problem, it's our problem to restore this to a place where we can return to. Along with help comes guidance, some good and some which is hard to understand. The important thing is to rebuild but also do so with an understanding that prevention for possible future Sandys also be considered. Good money and good feelings aren't the only objective. Good leadership must also be thinking for the future safety of these fine people. Our help, our hope, and our prayers are all important to our fellow Americans who live here .It starts now with aid but the will to go forward comes from those who are there so be prepared for the alternatives which will be facing the community for sometime to come.
if Japan can do it, why cann't they?
Smart money would say to make these destroyed areas parkland. Rebuilding, even to "new codes" will not accomplish very much. There is nothing made by man that cannot be defeated by nature.... and nature is ramping up.
It's not fun or easy to back away from restoring things the way they were.... but it is a bad idea in the long run. We, the U.S. will reach a point where we will be unable to continually rebuild the same disaster areas again and again.
Then shut of the pumps in New Orleans and let it return to it's natural state....a marsh.
I agree. With climate changing as fast as it is we need to back off of low lying coastal areas or spend $10 to defend every $1 in real estate.
Living in such areas should be at their own risk not tax payers.
since 1993,there has been 2 major storms in the Atlantic and Gulf of Mexico,just as was predicted in 1993.The prediction also called for a decrease in major storms over this time and a decrease has occured.So all you climitologisy out there thinking you know everything from reading the slightly left leaning works of the NY Times,you are incorect.We have had one of the mildest seasons on record,as predicted.The prediction for the next 10 years is the same,fewer large dangerous storms and general quiet in number of storms in the future.
Smart money would say there's a flock of developers with big bags of cash licking their chops at the prospect of buying out the little guys.
I don't read the newspapers for my information maso98, climate change has absolutely nothing to do with politics, and everything to do with man-made pollution and its effects on the environment. Simple Physics, you change the chemical content of the atmosphere by increasing Co2 levels, the Earth will adjust its climate to a new equilibrium. I pay attention to math and science not political agendas. No matter what your politics might be, the changing climate will eventually hit you. Climate change didn't cause this storm called Sandy, but it did make the storm and its effects worse.
So are we to assume that the next wildfire, earthquake, tornado, flood or other natural (or unnatural) disaster to hit the Land of Knob will see you abandoning your property in favor of turning it into parkland? Or is that the solution you reserve only for areas where you have no personal investment?
So called climate change did not make Sandy worse. It ran into a cold high pressure area which caused it to drift West. You people talk of DOING something about climate change, but cannot tell us WHAT needs to be done, except in vague generalities. Or at what COST.
People moved to Breezy Point in the last century because the land was cheap and they could afford to build houses there. Since then, owning any property in New York City has become so expensive that unless you inherit or are given a home, you cannot afford to live there.
I agree with Denver above, I am sure there are developers(think the Donald) drawing up plans right now for large condos that the current residents couldn't afford to live in. Unfortunately, having money in hand will sway many residents that leaving is better than staying, especially if you are older and have been thru some flooding in the past.
We have already reached the point where we can't afford to continue to build on places that should never have been built on in the first place...it's very sad, but if zoning regulations would have been adhered to, these homes would not have been allowed to be built.
Go friend "US Navy Task Force Climate Change" on FB. The DOD is onboard with climate change and that is why the US Navy has a FB page on it...to get the conversation going. Go read some of their posts. It IS all about science.... I believe they would need a sea wall before they even consider rebuilding. Someone already said to me they would have a hard time paying taxes on that hugh project when they don't even live near the ocean. Climate change is moving at a faster pace in the arctic, and sea levels will rise faster as a result. The average ocean wave has increased 15% in height since 1965 than they used to be. (Don't ask me how they clocked that, but they did. Satellites?) We have lost 30 years in addressing climate change because of deniers and fossil fuels funding crap science. The cost will be higher now. IMO it is treasonous the damage that these fossil giants have committed by deliberately mis-informing American citizens for the pupose of greed, and that goes for the media that spread their lies for YEARS, as well.
Your statements are untrue.The Oceans have risen 15 feet in the past 150 years,the result of the tail ending of the "Little Ige Age" that began over 7000 yeasrs ago.Ocean levels have been stabile since 1993.The number and intensity of the storms in the Atlantic and Gulf of Mexico was correctly predicted.The climate isn't warming was predicted.In fact,the original report was reviewed a few years back and most of the data was found to be in error.But the "One World Group" and newspapers like the NY Times reuse to give space to the latest finding by science.There is no climate warming.The 1.38 degree rise in water tempurature was expected and written about decades ago.The alarmist who think by scaring everyone is more important than to give them the facts and allow other to make decisions regarding the climate.When man can create hurricanes,tornados,sunamis,heavy rain storms,earthquakes,then I will worry about mans destruction of this planet.Mother earth is quite resillient and take care of her self and she is a great deal more powerful than man could ever imagine.There are thousands of existing examples of how Mother Nature takes care of herself and cures past transgressions of mankind without any help fro mankind.The same people want to spend ten of billions of dollars trying to prevent the extinction of a variety of animal while knowing that 99.9% of all animals that have ever lived on this earth have become extinct.We may postone the eviventually of the extinction of a species but we can never stop cpmpletely.The earth is always evolving,just like humans.Evolution,by it name, implies some species will survive while other do not. Mother Nature has her plan for the next million years and there is nothing man can do to change it.If her plan calls for the extinction of mankind,then it will happan and nothing we do can change that fact.
If you are refering to Mother Nature as in the great theory GAIA by Dr Lovelock back in the 60's, it is in fact he who predicts that climate change is irreversible and that 6 billion people will die from the coming climate disaster by the end of this century. He is one of the most imminent scientists of this century. He worked for NASA for a while. He worked on infectious diseases in London during WWII. Anyway, there is a great write up on him in Rolling Stone issue 1038, Nov 2007. Before you knock RS, don't forget that magazine has changed the course of history. (I am referring to the ouster of Gen McCrystal) The One World order is a conspiracy theory I heard of but don't believe. How doubly unfortunate for you if it promotes sceptacism of science.Ahhhh... Science and Physics!!-Just try to drive your car without 'em!
The oceans have not risen 15 feet in 150 years maso98, and they have risen since 1993. I don't know where you get your information, but it obviously isn't from any credible source. I looked to the NASA website for a link but it must be being updated, so I found another link for you that has actual scientific fact as it pertains to sea levels.
http://www.skepticalscience.com/Past-150000-Years-of-Sea-Level-History-Suggests-High-Rates-of-Future-Sea-Level-Rise.html
The oceans have risen less than a half inch in twenty years.
We continue to sh!t money to the slum of New Orleans, and are being asked to bail out Detroit (both area's predominately black) and the media and our government is not raising the flag to help these people? The media cruxified the Bush admin. over Katrina.......where are they now? Is it because these people are predominately white,working families and not likely to vote Democratic? WTF Where's the outrage, Sharpton,Jeese,etc.
hello is anybody out there;anybody ever hear of london berlin warsaw dresden there no sense being irish if you can;t be thick. you folks need to stick to your guns and not cave in do not let anyone tell you it is not going to happen. once you lose where your heart is you can never get it back
And the insurance companys are doing what ever they can to avoid paying.
since when did it become a manufactures defect for your home to be flooded by water.USAA seems to think so.
There is a silver-lining to this awful tragedy. This damage will spur a large building boom. All of this will have to be redeveloped. So it is going to create a lot of employment. Employment perfect for a large portion of the unemployed.
Not really. Just north of where I live a developer just broke ground on a 3,000 new home development. Let's keep the numbers in perspective.
sure and all the out of state builders will be be coming to over charge just try to get an out of state contractor to do any warranty work if you believe they will i have ocean front property in Kentucky for sale
Peter and runner-correct.
And the insurance companys find any reason not to pay.
Since when did floods and water damage become a manufactures defect.USAA seems to think so.
You obviously don't know New Yorkers. They will survive and come through it stronger, bigger and better then ever. They are survivors and will overcome all adversity.
This country is falling apart and our gov't cares about nothing except building an ungodly military. Send off all the jobs, let mother nature devastate cities, let it all fall apart. As long as the rich can keep getting more of the pie, who cares? Logical priorities and people with wisdom running the show do not exist. Get ready for a long hard ride from now on with our ongoing depression and new U.S. third world nation.
And all that is happening with Obama in charge.
Push it all over, clean it up and return it back to it's natural state!
You mean confiscate private property, right? Will you be paying them for their property or is it okay to tell them to scratch? And when they come for yours, what then?
Eminent Domain is not confiscation. Not safe or wise to build there anymore.
Just flip the whole thing, and move on.
Hopefully, this type of hurricane hits only once every few hundred years. If that is not the case and hurricanes become common in this area, then rebuilding is not an option.
if you had insurance collect it and do not rebuild, build somewhere hi and dry make it a nice large park and enjoy plenty of parking and a nice large beach
Unfortunately, it's not that easy. Take a good look at your homeowner's insurance policy, as well as your mortgage contract. In most cases of devastating loss, the insurance money goes to the mortgage holder, not the homeowner. Then the mortgage company decides how much to pay, and when. For example, your home is a total loss, and the insurance pays $200,000. Once you fill out the paperwork, (and the mortgage company loses it three times), the mortgage company might give you $10,000 to start rebuilding. Then you have to turn in bills from contractors and/or receipts for materials. (Keep copies, you'll need to send in the paperwork a number of times because they will lose it.) Once the mortgage company decides you've done enough rebuilding to justify it, they may release another ten or twenty thousand. And so it goes...
Absolutely right. The only way for people to get the right compensation, and $10K goes nowhere in NY, is to hire a private adjuster. These are real estate attorneys (usually) who come in, get a PROPER damage estimate, then see it through, and fast. They get far more than a person trying to fight with big insurers-masters of screwing people. Thus, their fees, as a percentage of the recovery, STILL bring the homeowners a much higher net.
Carefully research and get recommendations. For instance, one block on the south shore of Long Island, destroyed, banded together and got a top insurance adjuster. Plus, he will do a great job because people talk him up, recommend him (I even passed along his info to victims around here).
While I feel deeply for the losses these folks have suffered and strongly that we should assist them in their time of need, as a taxpayer I'm only willing to do this once. If they choose to rebuild thats fine but any future losses are fully on their shoulders. If they choose not to rebuild then their respective properties (land) should be bought by the gov't at a fair price then permently deeded to open/wilderness/parkland (with no improvements of any kind). I think it's only reasonable that I as a taxpayer shouldn't have to repeatedly pay any moneys to people who can't seem to figure out after the first disaster, that rebuilding in the same spot is not a very smart thing to do. We have spent billions of dollars building levees/damms/flood control projects in all parts of this country with the bottom line being mother nature wiil do what she wants, when she wants to do it.
Agreed, we have been paying for this kind of stuff for a long time now. Beach front property is a risk and always has been. Look at New Orleans, a city built below sea level. Does that really make any kind of sense what so ever?
a---rand -
Not all of the New Orleans area is below sea level as you seem to think. Granted, some of the area is, but a good bit is actually above sea level, as you would learn if you were to bother to look it up.
One thing which does make the federal government culpable in the flooding in the area due to hurricanes is the fact that the levees maintained and built at the direction of the US Army Corps of Engineers actually prevents the wetlands from being rebuilt by yearly flood waters from spring thaws. Instead, those silts are being deposited off of the continental shelf as the Mississippi drains into the gulf. New Orleans takes more damage from storm surges as the wetlands disappear as those wetlands would normally absorb the storm surge.
Keep in mind that New Orleans did not originally flood from Katrina. The flooding happened as a result of the failure of several of the levees. Levees that were not built to the engineering standards that they were designed to.
As to whether that area should rebuild? They have the right to. They should be required to carry flood insurance in the area, however, to help them to mitigate their losses when storms like this one happen so that the taxpayer does not get stuck with the tab. Just as New Orleans residents should carry flood insurance to mitigate their losses when major storms happen.
Tammy...Absolutely they have the "right to rebuild", however I as a taxpayer should not have to pay to bail them out more than the first time...this is not baseball...three strikes and your out...this is a 1 time deal...and note I said if they choose to not rebuild, the gov't will buy their property (land) at a fair price. I can assure you this would be far cheaper than bailing them out every 10 years or so...
Nature will take its course and we are wrong to try and fight that. New Orleans is built below sea level and will always have problems. It is a waste of money and effort to try and make these areas NORMAL living. There should have been restrictions years ago about building here.
For those of us who don't enjoy life close to the ocean's shore, the concept of spending billions of our tax dollars to restore an area that's likely to suffer the same devastation again doesn't make much sense. When people develop in high-risk areas, they should assume all the risk. Sea levels are going to continue to rise so if you build a home or business along the coast, at or near sea level.....guess what.
There's plenty of land in the US, so a word to the wise: Don't build where the sea is going to overtake the land, or where a catastrophic earthquake is likely to occur. But if you must live on an earthquake fault, or close to the ocean, please don't expect more sensible people to foot the bill for your poor judgement.
And what about those who live in tornado alley or in seizmically active areas?
What about blizzards? Droughts?
Every region of the country has its dangers from nature.
Okay Tammy, blizzards occur across many nations including the northern half of ours, and blizzards don't usually require tens-of-billions of dollars to recover from. Tornadoes can occur anywhere, hardly comparable to a hurricane's effect on the coast.
If you want to live by the ocean at sea level, or on a sandbar, live there. Build a house on an earthquake fault or live on the side of a volcano - who cares? When the inevitable happens - you own it, not me.
And tornadoes normally do not do this kind of widespread damage. They touch down and dissipate.
That's just it, 1Citizen, they have the right to rebuild where they wish. However, they should not count on the American taxpayer to bail them out. Neither do people who live in areas prone to drought, earthquakes, nor tornadoes - or blizzards, for that matter.
This is part of what is wrong with Americans today, they are unwilling to take care of themselves, by and large, and expect big brother to take care of them.
Agreed, Tammy and Sheila. We (the government) should act to save lives, because life is precious, but restoring a high-risk area like a sandbar or barrier island for residential/business use should be left to individuals to risk.
Nature doesn't care how much money you have! And to Chris Aslan; Do you live in New Orleans? No! Then STFU!!
My heart and my prayers go out to the residents of Breezy Point and other communities that were hit by Sandy. In 1994 our home flooded to a depth of 43" and the water stayed inside for a week. My wife and I took two weeks of vacation just to begin gutting our home from the ceiling down to the bare studs. We know the confusion and heartbreak that comes from dealing with insurance companies that "lose" multiple insurance claims as well as the madness that comes from the incompetence of FEMA administrators, who wanted to buy out some residents for "fair market value" minus the insurance payments months after folks had already spent the money and partially re-built their homes. We only had a little over 600 homes in our incorporated town. We ended up doing much of the work ourselves to save on the repairs and it took 7 months to re-build, while we were still working full-time jobs. Yes, you can learn to do finish and rough carpentry as I got a crash course in 1994 without any formal training.Many of these folks don't even have anything left but a slab. In 2006 Hurricane Rita hit the Gulf Coast of Texas. I recall the aerial photos that showed bare sand where the 17' storm surge destroyed close to a thousand homes, including my wife's grandmother's home where she had lived for decades. It looked like a giant 2X4 had scrapped the sand bare of all life. Then the homeowners had to battle the state of Texas to see where the "new" line of vegetation would establish where the public beach ended and the right to re-build private homes began. Lawsuits are still fighting their way thru court as many homeowners found that the location of their old homes were now on public beach land and could not be re-built at all and the State refused to provide any compensation at all. It is so heartbreaking to see people lose their homes and struggle to re-build. I can only offer my prayer that the "peace that passes all understanding will be yours in Christ Jesus." May God bless you and give you strength to fight the battle that faces you. It is a long, tough battle, but in the end you will win. Although, it seems unlikely now, there will be a day in the future when you will look back and see that God's Hand has always be guiding you through the wild, rocky, wilderness areas of your struggle that you never thought you could survive. Hang in there and keep fighting !! The battle may be long, but the rewards well worth the fight.
Dear John Boles,
I am so sorry all this happened. Even going back to 1994, victims often still have something resembling PTSD from the memories of going through the loss and/or destruction of a home, and then the fights with the gov and their own homeowner's insurance provider. Then, ultimately, the insurer to which they paid premiums for many years, auto and home, paid peanuts. And, it may have taken LOTS of phone calls, claims they lost the vics' paperwork, and such before the insurer paid anything, or more than a pittance. They know the h/o are desperate and want the money now, rather than fight for the proper costs of repairing whatever happened (flooded home, fire, cars destroyed in the garage, etc.) I receive LOTS of complaints about insurance companies from storms years back and now Sandy. The damage from Sandy affected most of certain neighborhoods far from the water, so we can't try to blame them for living right on a beach. To this day, you have to drive single file through neighborhoods because the tree and house debris is just sitting there. Then, of course, you need to fight the Town to come around and pick it up, as they are obligated to do and even went on the local news and promised. It is 12/8 and I just returned after driving through the streets of East Northport (Long Island, far from the water), extremely carefully since there is only one lane now and the debris has not been picked up. Trees fell on their roofs and the insurance companies even stated they won't pay for it, even if you take photos, until their adjuster comes. And then, as mentioned, they will do something like offer $10K. You can't get a roof for that around here, let alone the costs of removing and carting off the many trees and their enormous root systems; Sandy took trees with 15 foot roots. It is scary to see them in people's yards, 10, 15 feet high and the roots sideways.
For Sandy vics reading this, I just posted recommendations on getting a private adjuster, who will fight to get your costs taken care of, and not before you have been living in a trailer on the property for years.
Stop, Movinonout! Your commercials are getting tiresome.
Hey... We all know... It was Bush's Fault... Lets send him the bill.
If a road gets washed out, it is the government's responsibility to repair it. If your home gets destroyed, it should be your responsibility.
ctviking......"If your home gets destroyed, it should be your responsibility."
Of course.....goes without saying. Those are terrific words of wisdom. Always knew vikings could only see what is in front of them.