So the father tried to sell his loaded 9mm? He apparently didn't, and then was farting around with it outside the store and shot his son. Or maybe he tried to load it once outside and dorked it up (don't leave your finger on the trigger when you send the slide forward, dofus).

Some people shouldn't have guns, regardless of what the NRA thinks.

Don't even bring the NRA into it. Everyone has the right but doesn't mean they have had any safety training and thats one of the biggest things the NRA promotes GUN SAFETY AND TRAINING and to follow the laws which in this case would have probably made it illegal to have a loaded gun in public. also the barrel should have never been pointed in the child s direction while loading or unloading it.... Too bad this little child of 7 had to die because of his father's stupidity.

Charge this moron with negligent manslaughter.

Bingo.

"Just an unfortunate accident" How many times do we hear that about a fatal gunshot when a child is involved? Almost every time. And yet, there are still people who handle guns around children, leave guns where they can be found by children, and fail to follow simple basic safety rules in the presence of children. I'm sure this man will suffer the loss of his son for the rest of his life, just for being stupid with a gun.

Darn those guns. They did it again.

ANY gun owner is responsible for every bullet then own as well as the gun, and where every bullet goes.

While this may have been an accident, there is no reason for people to carry one in the chamber unless their life is in danger. I only put one in the chamber if I feel threatened. The guy must not have been feeling threatened as he was trying to sell his guns so why was one in the chamber? I do not see an excuse for this accident.

I am sorry for the loss of the child's life. The gun owner did let this happen.

Rest in peace, little one.

JP, did we miss something? Didn't this 7-year-old have "life" before it was taken away by a gun, outside a gun store?

:-(

What was the idiot doing pointing the gun at his son with his finger on the trigger - even if he knew beyond all doubt that the gun was unloaded (which he admits he didn't)?

And yes, the gun was pointed at the son. We know that because that's where the bullet went. Bullets don't curve.

And yes, his finger was on the trigger. Guns don't fire, they are fired - and that's not a minor grammatical quibble.

The child was in the back in a booster seat. This was a good father who will mourn the death of his child until his dying day. My deepest sympathies to him. That poor man. This is awful.

Angry Guy: you are quite right. Loaded or not, you NEVER point a weapon that can shoot a projectile directly at someone, as this guy did. There's enough chance of a ricochet hitting someone, should an "accident" like this occur.

And yes, I do question the "accident" part of it. The very first time that the father picked up that gun, he made the choice as to whether or not it needed to be loaded. He chose, and said to himself: I am going to use this weapon in the future. Whether it was to be the immediate future or some other day is irrelevant. His hand loaded it. With that bullet in the chamber, "accident" goes out the window and INTENT is laid bare. He had the INTENT to use that weapon. He showed GROSS NEGLIGENCE by not checking it properly, to make sure it was unloaded. His INTENT--the intended target, be it a paper cut-out at a shooting range or an intruder into the family home--never disappeared.

It is very much a shame that his son had to suffer from his father's decision, but to dismiss it as an accident... that particular word, "accident," DOES allow people to dismiss blatant stupidity... that bothers me.

He needs to be charged with negligence.

It's a lethal weapon. Account for the damn bullets and make sure you never ever ever point the damn thing in the direction of someone even if you "think" it's not loaded. If you can't do that, you shouldn't have the gun.

I grew up around guns, my brothers and I went to the gun range often with my Dad.. We never touched a gun until we had memorized the basic safety protocols of gun ownership..

Never point a gun (even a toy gun) at anyone.. Never touch a gun unless you are in a safe environment and ALWAYS make sure the safety is ON until you are ready to aim at your target, only then should you click the safety into the off position.. ALWAYS make sure the gun is empty of ammunition BEFORE it is put back into it's case or storage and again, NEVER point a gun, even if you are positive it's not loaded, at ANYONE! He drilled these into us BEFORE we were ever allowed to hold a gun and we knew them by heart from a very early age!

This Dad, sadly, broke one of those cardinal rules.. He didn't check to make sure his guns were unloaded and the safety was on.. He will be heartbroken for what happened the rest of his life..

These are such basic concepts to know when handling a gun or any other weapon and, if you have kids and handle guns, you damn well better make sure you KNOW them..
I have one gun now.. I keep it in a drawer beside my bed.. It's used only for protection and I know how to use it very well.. Too damn often I read about or see on TV where some poor gal is raped, tortured and murdered in her home by some sadistic, sick jerk! Trust me, one does NOT want to try breaking into my house.. I would NOT be aiming between the guy's eyes, if you get my drift..

I think every single woman who lives alone should go to a gun range, learn how to operate a gun the right way and then get one to protect herself.. There are just too many rapists, murderers and serial killers running around in this country today and I, personally, don't plan on becoming another statistic if I can help it!

Oh, I see, this is just another story where a gun didn't kill someone.... This just pisses me off and makes me want to work even harder to put the screws on gun ownership. Blah, blah, blah about how we need them to keep ourselves safe from the bad guys. As far as I can tell, the percentage of people killed by guns in self defense is much, much lower than the number of people killed by crazy psychos or "good" people. Guns kill people... that is why they are made and why people own them.

journaljournal... How is this man a good father? He fatally shot his son. Total, epic fail.

I was taught at a very young age that weapons are loaded until you check it yourself. While the NRA does have training classes on how to handle weapons, every time we try to require people to take them, they scream that we are trying to take their guns away.

Handguns, no matter what make, no matter what model, are designed and intended for just one thing - shooting people. You don't hunt with them (you may target shoot, but what's the point) or you may just buy them for display (as in a shrine of some sort).

To repeat, handguns are intended only for shooting people. If you have a handgun, the odds that you will actually load it and point it at a person with the intent of pulling the trigger is almost zero. And yet, millions of them are sold every year and people are "accidentally" shot on a regular basis.

Is anyone surprised?

And, akman, the NRA is most definitely in the middle of this - what other organization is mindlessly promoting the sale of more and more handguns, regardless of the repeated tragedies?

If only there were more guns these things would be a thing of the past.

Handguns, no matter what make, no matter what model, are designed and intended for just one thing - shooting people. You don't hunt with them (you may target shoot, but what's the point) or you may just buy them for display (as in a shrine of some sort).

Not true. There are some handguns that were designed for hunting. There are some handgun bullets that were designed for hunting also, like the .44 magnum.

And target shooting is fun. Ever try it?

Accidental? He 'accidentally' had the fool thing loaded? This guy had no business owning a gun and his stupid mistake cost the life of his precious child. This man is the living reason as to why I think there should be stricter gun control. There are just too many stupid irresponsible people owning them. I have ALWAYS been taught to check the gun to make sure it's loaded or unloaded before you handle it. It's pretty much gun safety 101.

I'd like to know (if we could really get the truth) is how close the gun dealer looked at the guns and if he knew that the one had a bullet in the chamber, if so, that person should be charged as well.

'Accidents happen'? Really? This isn't just an 'oopsie' - he killed his 7-year old son!

I don't see any possibility of our American society progressing toward framing practical limitations of Amendment II rights until those among us who are so deeply offended, and threatened by the mere mention of rational gun control, evolve as human beings to the point where they are at least equally offended by the tragic and unnecessary deaths of our children by guns.

Condolences to the father, family and friends. These accidents are difficult to accept, this father will mourn this tragedy forever.

Our thoughts and prayers are with you.

If the gun was not in a case and was being placed in a glove box, you would hold it by the butt as you placed it in the glove box. That would be muzzle first, so if it fired, the round would go forward. No one would hold a pistol by the muzzle as they placed it in the glove box. Even then, I would think the round wold have went through his hand before striking his son.

It didn't happen the way he said. This is just as stupid as people claiming a gun went off while cleaning it. You can't clean a loaded pistol, unless you call cleaning rubbing it along your pant leg.

Stuff it JP lotsanumbers. That was not an accident. The gun was in the hands of an idiot. A round was chambered. Explain to us how that was an accident. Don't we constantly hear some crap about how guns don't kill people. Well bucko, they don't load themselves either.

To continue to argue that everyone has a right to a gun ignores the fact that not everyone knows how to use a gun right.

Umm, so how many people have been shot outside of their homes?

Yet another example or a gun demonstrating its purpose.

The Angry Guy

What was the idiot doing pointing the gun at his son with his finger on the trigger

All that needed to be said. What the hell is wrong with people? You never EVER put your finger on the trigger unless you plan to shoot, why is that SO hard to understand?

Seabreezin'

I grew up around guns, my brothers and I went to the gun range often with my Dad.. We never touched a gun until we had memorized the basic safety protocols of gun ownership..

Never point a gun (even a toy gun) at anyone.. Never touch a gun unless you are in a safe environment and ALWAYS make sure the safety is ON until you are ready to aim at your target, only then should you click the safety into the off position.. ALWAYS make sure the gun is empty of ammunition BEFORE it is put back into it's case or storage and again, NEVER point a gun, even if you are positive it's not loaded, at ANYONE! He drilled these into us BEFORE we were ever allowed to hold a gun and we knew them by heart from a very early age!

And the absolute number ONE rule is what I already said. Don't EVER put your finger on the trigger unless you're fixin to fire. NEVER EVER EVER! People make me crazy with stupidity like that. Now this man will live the rest of his life (if his wife doesn't kill him) knowing he killed his own child.

I am pro gun but this guy shouldn't have bought a pea shooter much less a firearm. You never point a gun at anything you don't intend to shoot or kill. Treat all guns as if they are loaded even if you know for a fact that it is not. The first thing you do when cleaning a gun is make sure it is empty. The second is remove the firing mechanism if possible so it is impossible for it to fire. When hunting or target shooting always have the safety on until you are ready to shoot but always treat a gun as if the safety was off. (safety's do rarely malfunction ) There is never a accidental shooting if these rules are followed.

This father should be charged with accidental/negligent homicide IMO.

The insanity continues. The rediculous babble over private ownership of guns outside legitimate Hunting etc - is beyond belief. Stop making excuses and deal with it. It will not happen overnight thats for sure its far too ingrained in society, but it will happen if tackled in a controlled manner. Stop with the excuses - deal with it before another 10,000+ are killed or injured in another 12 month period. UK, 62million - 619 muders in 12 months - 42 from firearms.

Its time a co-ordinated plan was put it place to stop the insane cycle of gun violence that only achieves even more gun ownership. Its barking mad.

Let the excuses continue .... regrettably.

Firearms are only as safe as the person holding it. The only thing the firearm did to take the life of a seven year old boy was to react to the holders actions. Manditory firearm safety courses would be a good thing, and should be conducted every 4 years or so with the attendee recieving a certificate of training.

• Remember -- guns make us safe. after all -- the US is the safest place in the world!!!

"Manditory firearm safety courses would be a good thing, and should be conducted every 4 years or so with the attendee recieving a certificate of training."

• On NO!! Why that would lead to the UN taking away our guns ---ya know -- that massive, secret plot Obama is going to spring on the US any day. After all -- he's been working on it ever since he was born in Kenya.

I will never understand why it's so hard for people to take the 2 seconds to rack back the slide and see if there's a round in the chamber. It befuddles me.

In my municipality in order to purchase or have a handgun you have to take a mandatory state-sponsored gun safety course FIRST before your permit can be issued. My husband recently bought one, and he had to go through this process.

I don't know why this isn't required everywhere.

24 years as a Gunners Mate in the Navy and everytime I see something like this it only infuriates me more. I have trained people how to safely handle, load, and use weapons for over half my life. My heart and prayers go out to this family, they need that now. This only gives more ammunition to the anti-gun lobby. While I have my own weapons around my home, concealed carry permit in my wallet, and a deep respect for our rights to have and carry weapons, I have to agree that there are some law abiding citizens who just do not get it and should not be allowed to have weapons. This is a prime example. He should have never been entering his vehicle with the gun out, should have been holstered if he knew what he was doing. And the biggy, guns do not go off unless the trigger is pulled, finger should not have been on the trigger or he was dragging the gun across something as he entered the truck. Either way, he was negligent an dyes while he has to suffer the loss of a child due to it, he should also be charged. That is another problem, we do not uphold the laws we have on the books. Again, sorry for the families loss, but this was preventable and it was not an accident, it was negligence.

The NRA fights against any and every law that regulates or restricts gun usage. And while the NRA may have an educational element with rules for handling all guns, it will fight against making those rules or educational training MANDATORY for owning a gun. The NRA is primarily funded not from member's dues but from the American gun manufacturers. Their primary goal is NOT gun safety but to produce and sell as many guns as possible. And as much AMMUNITION as well. I'm pretty sure we now have more guns than people in the U.S. and if not, we're getting close. They fought against laws, strongly supported by U.S. police forces, to outlaw various types of armor piercing ammunition. Sell more guns, sell more ammunition. is the real reason for the NRA, firearm safety is just an afterthought. That, Amanda, is why firearm safety courses are NOT mandatory throughout this country.

real tragedy, family will never forgive ; HOWEVER; "treat all guns as if they were loaded ".

So I'm waiting for the argument about how guns don't kill people. About how if it was a knife, or some other weapon, the results would have been the same.

Lets not forget that this situation is just horribly tragic. The father was obviously trying to sell the gun because he needed money. Nothing will ever be the same for him.

I agree with you Scott - the firearm that actually goes off is basically plain and simple "guns kill people". This father may have been extremely careful but the gun just went off. To anyone who says the gun should have been unloaded ..... then what the heck to you keep a gun in the glove compartment for - if it is protection - you wouldn't have time to reload the gun if someone tried to carjack you.

I feel bad that the NRA has turned many people in our society into gun owners and they constantly make people think that they all need a handgun and more guns and more guns to survive anywhere.

In this instance this is obviously a gun owner type of family as he had more than one gun - but think how many lives like this will perish due to an accidental firearm discharge.

The only time a shooting can be called "accidental" is when the weapon actually malfunctions, which is so rare as to be nearly statistically irrelevant. If you follow basic gun safety rule, the weapon is treated as if it is loaded even when you are certain is isn't loaded, otherwise it is a negligent discharge. Negligent, not accidental.

Yes, this man was an idiot who never should have had the weapon in the first place and he should be charge a crime, but on top of that he has to live with the memory of killing his son for the rest of his life.

If you don't know how to own a gun safely you should not own a gun. If you buy his story, he did not know how to safely carry and transport that weapon. It's simple. Unless you feel that there is a high likelyhood that you'll be in danger. Safety on, no shell in the pipe. You can take that one step further and not insert the magazine. If he had done that his child would not be dead. Every time you handle a weapon the first thing you do is check to see 1. Is they safety on?, 2. Is the weapon loaded? EVERY GD TIME!

My condolences to the family for this tragedy

I know for sure that my gun is not loaded. However, whenever it's taken out (cleaning, etc..) I ALWAYS DOUBLE CHECK to make sure there is no round in the chamber and my clip is empty. I have a 14 yr old to look out for and have so far taught her the ins and outs of protocol when it comes to handling any kind of gun. Checking for ammo either in a clip or the chamber is always #1. Making sure you keep your finger off the trigger is #2, and never never, never aiming it at anyone unless she intends to shoot is #3.

What a dip sh_t dad this guy was. Sorry for his son and all, but he should've been more careful before he even left his house that day with the gun in hand. It always amazes me the idiots allowed to own weapons these days, tho I see no way around that one.

Thanks for finally saying that the accident happened OUTSIDE THE GUN STORE. As usual the damage is already done. The Media is our biggest problem.

What an awful thing to happen. Tears.......

So the father tried to sell his loaded 9mm?

Not knowingly, anyway. Unfortunately, he apparently did not have enough experience with firearms to appreciate the importance of habitually clearing firearms completely as soon as they are in one's hands.

I only put one in the chamber if I feel threatened. The guy must not have been feeling threatened as he was trying to sell his guns so why was one in the chamber?

Many people who have firearms for defensive use have a round in the chamber. If you have a revolver, having it loaded at all means you have a round in the chamber, whether or not the chamber under the hammer contains a cartridge. Some firearms have a safety which may be engaged, some, such as revolvers and so-called 'Double Action Only' pistols do not as the long, heavy trigger pull acts to prevent unintentional tripping of the trigger. With an automatic pistol, unfortunately, the rapid reload you get by inserting a loaded magazine and bumping the slide lock release comes at the expense of the risk of unwittingly putting a round in the chamber 'automatically' if one has pulled the slide back to check the barrel and chamber upon picking the gun up. Someone who does not fully understand the operation of the gun or isn't thinking through what they're doing may mistakenly believe the chamber is as empty as when they examined it before they inserted a magazine and hit the slide release. This can happen with pretty much any repeating firearm, but is especially hazardous with autoloaders and part of why so many people have been shot by guns thought to have been unloaded.

And yes, the gun was pointed at the son. We know that because that's where the bullet went. Bullets don't curve.

Bullets don't 'curve', but they most certainly can ricochet! Handgun bullets especially can bounce off of what they cannot penetrate. No indication that this happened here, but in a confined space with many hard surfaces, it certainly can be a factor.

And yes, his finger was on the trigger. Guns don't fire, they are fired - and that's not a minor grammatical quibble.

We don't know that his finger was actually on the trigger. Guns are not always intentionally fired. Anything that makes contact with the trigger and can move it enough to release the hammer or striker can cause a loaded gun to discharge. A gun with a single action trigger that has been cocked (which it would be, by default, when the round is stripped from the magazine by the closing slide and forced into the chamber) is especially susceptible to a mishap should something make contact with the trigger. Accidents have happened when a loaded handgun was pushed into a holster that didn't fit it quite right. A number of hunting accidents have occurred through the years when hunters attempted to move or retrieve a loaded rifle or shotgun, safety off, and the trigger snagged on foliage, something in the vehicle, or even some gear that the hunter was wearing at the time. In the case of a handgun, if it was placed in the wrong place or the person setting it down fumbled, the gun is small and light enough that it could start out pointed in a 'safe' direction, the trigger makes contact with some relatively immovable object, and as the trigger (which is a curved surface) starts to creep backwards, the gun may rotate around the axis formed by that curved trigger and whatever it was in contact with. By the time the trigger has moved enough that the sear surfaces break contact, it may have rotated some number of degrees and is pointed in a thoroughly undesired direction when the hammer or striker is released. Further, if whatever contacts the trigger is vibrating, such as a part of a running vehicle, an autoloader may fire multiple times. This happened to a member of my father's battalion one day when they were under attack. The soldier's 'cocked and locked, trigger unblocked' M14 rifle slipped in the rack (that it probably wasn't correctly placed in) that kept the rifle handy in the cab of the truck the soldier was driving. As the rifle slipped, the muzzle ended up in line with the soldier's head as part of the rack or the driver's seat contacted the trigger. The rifle was still more or less captive but the truck was running and vibrating. The trigger kept resetting and tripping in turn, and an entire magazine full of twenty 7.62 NATO cartridges ( .308 Winchester) were fired into his head and through the roof of the truck cab. Like any accident, one or more 'little' detail items went wrong, and a chain of inadequacies or mishaps resulted in catastrophe.

Handguns, no matter what make, no matter what model, are designed and intended for just one thing - shooting people. You don't hunt with them (you may target shoot, but what's the point)

Quite a few people hunt with handguns, actually. There are dedicated seasons in many areas for them, just as there are for muzzleloaders and bow and arrow. As far as target shooting not having a point, ask a competitive shooter about that. It is an Olympic sport, after all, and there are many leagues and competitions for pistol and revolver shooting. This is what all those target pistols in calibers ranging from .22 to .45 are for!

To repeat, handguns are intended only for shooting people.

Ah, what a heartwarming display of IGNORANCE. Nice to know that's not becoming a lost art, I guess...

If you have a handgun, the odds that you will actually load it and point it at a person with the intent of pulling the trigger is almost zero.

Yeah, because a lot of people who have purchased handguns never had any intent to use it as a weapon. A great many were purchased purely for recreational use and aren't even kept handy in a loaded state when not in use.

If only there were more guns these things would be a thing of the past.

If only there was more education these things would be a thing of the past. Too bad all the use (mostly misuse) of firearms we've all been watching on television and in movies for pretty much our entire lives has seldom if ever included any safe handling procedures, such as clearing actions and checking chambers. A person can be told to do these things, but the only way one really learns is to spend time around someone who fastidiously does these things consistently. People learn by example, and if you're not SEEING people safely handle firearms, you're probably not going to be doing it, either. Until, that is, you have a close call or an accident, of see someone else have one. Then, suddenly, the idea of safe handling makes PERFECTLY CLEAR SENSE to you.

I would strongly suggest that people think twice about calling this guy things like 'idiot' and 'moron', because when we say that, we imply that he was, we're not, and that's what makes us different from him. The only thing that made him different than some of us was that he either was not aware of one seemingly small but critically important detail, or else his mind was not completely on what it should have been, which was safely handling the firearm in his possession. It can happen to any one of us if we inadvertently allow ourselves to end up in the same place. Accidents tend to happen when we're not consciously proactive in preventing them.

Even with a loaded chamber, this could have been absolutely prevented if the pistol was being transported in a hard case, preferably one with locking hasps. In most places, the law requires that handguns be transported in a secure case, out of the reach of the vehicle driver or passengers. Field stripping the pistol (drop the magazine, remove the slide and barrel) before transporting it probably isn't going to hurt anything, either, or at least transporting it with the magazine removed and the slide locked back.

I can't believe how heartless people are. I'm sure, if this truly was an accident, the father does wish it had been himself and not his son. Hopefully something good will come of this, like the Dad being an advocate for gun safety. So many people are killed or hurt because of a bullet being in the chamber being forgotten.

All of the gun haters need to get over it. Guns aren't going anywhere. Safety is the key.

I hope this family can find some peace during this time.

Hopefully something good will come of this, like the Dad being an advocate for gun safety.

Hopefully. The problem with safety procedures is they tend to not be followed after a period of time where no accidents have occurred. This happens with everything, from riding bicycles to operating motor vehicles to using power tools ranging from Dremel tools to heavy machinery, to flying aircraft and, of course, using firearms. This also happens in professions, such as medicine and law enforcement. Training deals extensively with the 'what if's and how to prevent things from going wrong, but when nothing does go wrong for years on end, that training tends to be forgotten until one day a mishap does occur and then there's hell to pay.

It's called complacency, and it happens to the best of us unless we're aware that it does happen to us, gradually, and take active steps to prevent it.

A lot of people who own and/or handle firearms are not completely aware of what bullets can do. Those of us who do know, who have seen what bullets do to things we do not want being struck by bullets, take great care to ensure that accidents do not happen.

Cassie...when you own a firearm, one of the "safe" procedures to follow is to always treat a weapon as if it is loaded. For a fair many people, this practice includes toy guns. This means you never point the muzzle at that which you do not intend to shoot. To say this father was safe with his handling practices is like saying Hannibal Lecter preferred chicken for dinner.

And TiGor...while you make a very valid point about safety procedures tending to be forgotten after a period where nothing goes wrong, I think there are instances where constant vigilance is necessary. Without it, you have mistakes like this. I'm not a father as of yet but I can't imagine how this man feels and I can assure you I'll take all necessary steps to avoid ever being in a similar situation.

My thoughts to the family...but I am sorry. This is not a gun control issue or even an accident as many have said. Gun control is something many firearm owners support(believe it or not) and an accident is when you forget to turn off a light. Not forget that you have one in the chamber of a gun where you let the muzzle point directly at a living being. No self-respecting gun owner keeps one in the chamber anyway. EVER.

Gun owners in this country are sorely in need of 'adult supervision'. For all the claims from the NRA and the gun lobby in this country, that they're all about safety, the fact remains that there are too many stupid, irresponsible, lazy, drugged, and crazy, people who have ready access to a range of weaponry that boggles the imagination. Certainly, there are 'responsible' gun owners out there. But, my experience is that there are many more of the other group.

Our society has reached a point where there is a compelling interest in keeping firearms out of the hands of the irresponsible majority of gun owners. This isn't just about mental illness. This is about competence. Just like you need to prove competence to drive a car (although at a pretty low standard) it should be encumbent on all would-be gun owners to prove their competence to own firearms. Yes, bearing arms is a 'right'. But, "A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed" to me means that gun ownership should be regulated as part of a structured context. Rather than the free-for-all it is today.

Owning a gun is a huge responsibility. Around kids from age 2 to 20 in the household it must be a nerve racking responsibility, hardly worth it as illustrated in this case. Unfortunate accident? Fortune has nothing to do with this event. Carelessness does.

RIP boy.

Daddy was supposed to protect you, instead he killed you. How do you live with that?

Guns are for military personnel, cops and highly qualified private citizens. I feel like 80 to 90 % of private citizens shouldn't have guns but do.

Its 80-90% that fought bled and died for your right to say so. If it werent for that vast majority youd be speaking German right now. There will be accidents because we are human. Your not going to get 100% safety from outlawing guns and you know it so why dont you do what we do and strive for safety as best we can. You can start by promoting gun safety instead of trying your best to outlaw them?

How does he live with that? The same way a woman lives with the fact that she forgot to put the car in park and it rolled over her child. By the way women kill their kids 8-10X more often then men do.

Guns are not just for military personnel. Guns are for any law abiding person who wants them. It's called Freedom.

When Admiral Hirohito was asked why Japan didnt invade America he quickly said "Are you insane! Do you know that there are Americans with guns behind every blade of grass? "

Guns are a deterrent to crime and they saved us from invasion. They are an integral part of our liberty and freedom. If you dont like it maybe you should move to Russia, China, North Korea where guns are not allowed?

do you own a gun store?

Women spend quite more time with children care than men do, maybe a higher incidence of death is logical.

I seriously doubt that 80-90% fought, bled, or died for my rights, but I appreciate the sacrifices of those who did. By the way, I do speak German, my mother's first language. There is no shame in that. It is also any citizen's right to offer their opinion without being told that they have to leave the country. The hostility coming from gun owners makes me very afraid, even in my "peaceful" neighborhood. I don't fear outside criminals, but the supposed law abiding citizens around me who feel that anyone they don't agree with should be threatened and shot! That is real and I live with it constantly. Virtually every child in the neighborhood has pointed a gun at me as I peacefully go about my life on my own property. Presumably these guns are "toys", but they should not be pointed in any case. These same children have access to real guns. At any given moment how do I know what is pointed at me? Nobody is teaching them anything about safety or respect.

Thanks for sharing your opinion Hannahss. Danke.

Yes some gun owners are also low self-esteemed, high-egoed gun slinging thugs wanting "respect" from others just because they own a gun. They start young and grow up into adulthood and soon hide behind the same kind of excuses Getmadstaymad mentions: motherland, the flag, the constitutional right to bear arms, the Japanese invasion and whatnot. Like we hear it, guns don't kill people, it's people who kill people. I don't mind guns at all, have at it. What I mind is the mind that controls the finger on the trigger or the bullet out the chamber ( or not).

Save...but people do kill people. If that were me in this story---a bit silly saying that because if it were me there would be no story---my son would be alive(as well as every other innocent human out there) because I'm a person void of carelessness when it comes to firearms, gun towed home in a safe manner, unloaded, never ever pointed in his direction or any other living thing's direction that I did not intend to kill. It is no different then when a person gets behind the wheel impaired and kills someone or when their animals maul a person. It is never the gun, car, or animal's fault...how can it be if there is always a person behind said object? So yes...people kill people. To say otherwise is removing responsibility and that perpetuates the problem. I own weapons, a car, and a pit bull. No one has ever been hurt by me because I take responsibility...and I think you know that but I just had to answer to the "guns kill people comment". If this father was more responsible, his son would still be alive.

And hannahss...may I point out you did the very same thing as getmadstaymad? You see his statements as illogical and fear-mongering. I see yours the same way...because...shocker...if your neighbors are as careless as you say, they are breaking the law and you should call the police. But I take it you haven't for good reason. I suspect all of this is in your head because again...shocker...you speak of your neighbors with such an ill-will...with the kind of attitude that perpetuates irresponsible gun ownership in the first place. Like you don't know them very well, like you never say hi, like they are your enemy. While they very well could be the type of idiots that should never own weapons, they could also be far more responsible than you realize and your best friend if you allowed your mind to open that far. But seriously...don't say someone's actions makes you afraid and repeat the same actions toward others.

Here is the problem with the NRA rules...yeah that's the way it should be but in today's hyper STUPID world of monsters under EVERY bed...people don't take time to unload their gun because someone MIGHT carjack them, or they MIGHT have some psycho crazy bastard jump in their car and start eating their FACE...who cares if it's much more likely for a tragedy like this to occur or that their own gun is taken away and used AGAINST them. I've seen a loaded semi automatic assault rifle carelessly left in the passenger seat of an UNLOCKED truck as the idiot who owned it went into the local convenience store. Please, Gun RIGHTS come with gun RESPONSIBILITIES!!! Whomever shot that child, failed in their responsibility. Doubly damning that it likely came from the gun store they just exited where people SHOULD KNOW BETTER.

That's because there should be mandatory firearm safety training. Or what we call it up here in Alaska spending time with our children and teaching them the correct ways of handling firearms... If you're born and raised in Alaska odds are you will never get shot from a mishandling of a firearm. Not saying accidents don't happen but they are extremely rare. The ones that happen are from replants... people raising their kids here that are from the lower 48. Dont make the gun a taboo for your children. enroll them in a gun safety course weather you own one or not. that way they can also differentiate between safe handling and not as they grow up..... You teach children to look both ways, dont talk to strangers and so on.... Why not gun safety?

RULE 0

Always treat a gun as if it IS LOADED. There is no such thing as an unloaded firearm. It is AMAZING how many people are shot every year by "unloaded" firearms.

Pro 2nd amendment anti ID10T.

So unfortunate that so many STOOPID people are such avid NRA fans, eh, hampagnesabre?

Btw, good ol' Alas-ka - always does gun stuff right!

toredown you are an idiot

What good are rules that aren't enforced? Before being allowed to own a gun, every owner should have to apply for a gun safety license and own gun insurance. It won't guarantee no one will be shot by an idiot or a whack job, but at least the license can be taken away. We do it for cars, which kill all too often. Why not for something designed to kill?

Ban handguns.

The fundamental rule for living a long and happy life:

1. Let the NRA wither up and die already.

2. Read this article: http://thelunatic.newsvine.com/_news/2012/07/02/12524132-americans-and-their-guns

AlKhidr: Gun insurance: NO WAY. When the insurance adjuster sees that a gun "accidently" had a round in the chamber, forget about collecting any insurance money. If the insurance companies did provide insurance against accidents, there would be even more "accidents" than there are.

The only insurance might be against the value of a gun destroyed in a fire, but that already could be included in a homeowner's policy.

You can bet that any such gun insurance also wouldn't apply to intentional acts, so good luck collecting in the case of assault or murder.

Why was he putting it in the glove compartment anyway? Is that one of those idiot states that wouldn't let him just leave it in the holster on his hip? Mine is on my hip in the holster and because it is double action only (Ruger LCP)and has no mechanical safety other than a long heavy trigger pull I don't leave one in the chamber, loaded magazine in place yes but nothing under the firing pin. Ya i'd have to rack the slide but if I think the situation may go bad this thing is a last resort anyway I'll try backing away or even running if the jerk will give me the chance. Unfortunately some just have to see how far they can push.

And ya he made a terrible mistake and will have to live with that the rest of his life. As for prosecuting not sure, how many kids at home left with a dad in prison and the stigma that goes with that. Prays for the family. P.S. My dad shot himself with a shotgun when I was 7 and I found him, I never blamed the gun and still don't. I blame depression.

..... and he may have seen reality had he ever came home to find his daughter dead, raped and strangled with her underwear.

www.news9 dot com/story/19858704/12-year-old-girl-shoots-intruder-during-home-invasion

You Rock ,Jay

i am sure their are lots of well armed criminals that support your right not to own a firearm.

Did he ever allow crossing a street? How about riding in a car? Problem with liberals is they are always scared of the possibility something bad could happen and somehow they still want to protect everyone. Get a clue you can't, its a little thing called life bub.

well like ronnie van zandt says"handguns are made for killing..they aint good for nothing else"

@jennifer

Handguns are made for stopping a threat. If a criminal is threatening a life and he dies of a gunshot wound... well, that is unfortunate.

Jay Reeder-357996

My father had a gun safety rule too. He never allowed one to be in our home, and he never allowed his children to be around people with guns.

It's ignorance like this that causes death. All of my kids know the correct way to handle a firearm. All have had Dad training and also the NRA classes on gun safety, They also know to leave a situation where a firearm is not being handled per the specified rules of handling. The parent in this article NEVER had gun safety or training I can assure you.

The fundamental NRA rules for safe gun handling are:

1. ALWAYS keep the gun pointed in a safe direction.

2. ALWAYS keep your finger off the trigger until ready to shoot.

3. ALWAYS keep the gun unloaded until ready to use.

akman65, the problem is the NRA is so damned hyper guns for everyone they have BLOCKED any kind of legislation that would REQUIRE most gun safety training. Sure they CLAIM to promote it but they DO NOT WANT IT REQUIRED because it might just prevent a gun sale to some moron too stupid to learn how to safely own a gun.

The NRA always says one thing and then does something else because they are so afraid that someone won't be able to get a gun. Now that is just plain insane on their part. Too many brain dead, ignorant, self important and just afraid of their shadow people get guns anymore. There should be limits but the NRA hates any limit and that is BAD for everyone.

Oh and before the nut jobs start railing on me I own guns and actually know how to use them.

Unlike this stupid father that killed his kid I know that if I am going to sell a gun , like he was doing, you remove the clip and open the slide to eject any possible round in the chamber. Then if possible lock the slide back. ANYONE WITH HALF A FUNCTIONING BRAIN WOULD KNOW THIS. Hell when anyone gives me a gun to look at I always do all of the above even if they tell me it is empty. IT'S WHAT SMART PEOPLE DO. The fact the people working in the gun store didn't do that show just how BRAIN DEAD SOME GUN SELLERS ARE ANYMORE.

..... and he may have seen reality had he ever came home to find his daughter dead, raped and strangled with her underwear.

Read your article and didn't see anything about a dead daughter, raped and strangled.

I'm so glad I don't live in a world that has to turn everything into a docu-drama in order to make a point...

(and for what it's worth, we DO have guns in our house).

Just as you have one side that always takes the "no guns in this country", there's always the "the worlds out to get everyone so we all better have a gun" crowd. Fact is, there needs to be a common ground. Stupid things can happen to ANYONE holding a gun, regardless of the number of "safety training" classes you take.

akman65-

"The parent in this article NEVER had gun safety or training I can assure you."

And you know this to be an absolute fact? How?

For all we know the parent may have been a responsible, legal gun owning citizen in most circumstances and has attended gun safety courses, but decided for some isane reason to have a couple of beers that morning and ended up being pretty careless, which resulted in the death of his son. Who knows why this guy was so stupid.

Just because you say that you and your children know the correct way to handle a firearm and have had NRA classes on gun safety, that this couldn't possibly ever happen to you or one of them because you're so responsible.

Never say never...

Problem with liberals is they are always scared....

No, the ones who are scared are the ones who won't leave the house without a gun. Gun owners are timid and fearful. Confident, self-assured people don't need guns.

Jerry Brown would be alive today if it were not for alcohol. Where is Bob Costas' call to ban alcohol?

Earlyout, confidence and self assurance will surely save you from an intruder with a 9mm. Good luck with that.

Oh...good for him! Now not only is he a fool, he raised a whole family of them!

Earlyout, confidence and self assurance will surely save you from an intruder with a 9mm. Good luck with that.

See? Exactly what I'm talking about. This poster is afraid the boogeyman is going to break into his house. Must be tough to go through life in constant fear.

If criminals started carrying grenades, we'd have the NGA and they'd be saying the world would be safer if everyone were packing a couple of couple of frags.

This poster is afraid the boogeyman is going to break into his house.

Google the name ...Sharon Tate.

never mind . i will do it for you.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sharon_Tate

And retiredcoastguard is afraid of Charles Manson. I've heard that meteorites have sometimes hit people. You'd better not come out from under your kitchen table.

lol..troll on.

I'm not trolling. I'm pointing out that the position of most gun nuts is illogical, and indefensible. They're a bunch of scared little rabbits, perpetually on the brink of soiling themselves because they think they're in constant danger. If they weren't such a danger to the rest of us, it would be humorous.

I'm not trolling.

OK, Early out. I am not a gun nut. Do i own guns ? Yes.

Do i expect i will ever kill anyone? No... at least , i hope not. In case you have not watched the news in the last 40 years their are a lot of bad people in the world . If you outlaw guns only outlaws will have guns . Think about it. ;-)

I've heard that meteorites have sometimes hit people.

If your not trolling , do not give up your day job . Their are plenty of comedians out of work. Do not get me wrong , i troll myself sometimes .

The main thing with firearms is to keep the business end pointed away from any unintended target. Do accidents still happen ? Yes , just like your meteorite but not very often.

EarlyOut-1524710

There are some gun nuts out there. That is for sure. I know of quite a few I stay away from. I know of many other people that responsibly carry a gun, and there are a lot more of them. I usually enjoy being around a lot of the latter. They rarely, if ever, talk about guns in public and there is definitely knowledge of safety around them. These people have families and have never shot anyone that I know of. They have good families and are just good people.

Please do not lump all people into the gun nuts crowd just because they own a gun.

If you outlaw guns only outlaws will have guns.

Exactly, and that would be a huge boon to law enforcement. We don't have to wait for you to use a gun to kill or maim someone. It would mean that the very fact that you have a gun means that you are, by definition, a criminal. We can take the gun away from you.

And before someone says, "but you'll never get rid of all the guns," I'll answer that one. We can't possibly ensure that no drunk driver will ever get behind the wheel, but that doesn't stop us from outlawing drunk driving and patrolling for people who are doing it. We can't possibly kill off all bad bacteria, but that doesn't stop us from using antibiotics. Outlaw guns, and start getting rid of them. We may never achieve the goal of eliminating them, but we can certainly make a difference.

"But what about the Second Amendment?" Repeal it. It was an anachronism even in the late 18th Century. The notion that a bunch of citizens with their personal weapons could possibly resist a tyrannical government or an invading army wasn't true then, and is downright laughable today. The Second Amendment has become a virtual suicide pact, yet serves no useful function.

@EarlyOut:

I'm pointing out that the position of most gun nuts is illogical, and indefensible. They're a bunch of scared little rabbits, perpetually on the brink of soiling themselves because they think they're in constant danger. If they weren't such a danger to the rest of us, it would be humorous.

First of all, calling those of us who do have guns, take training, and are RESPONSIBLE, gun nuts not only shows your ignorance but your comprehension of reality. I am a gun owner and FAR from a nut. I am protecting my home, my life, my daughter's life, and my families life, from the NUTS who could break into my home. How is that illogical or indefensible? By my own reasoning, I am being logical, as well as acquiring the ability to defend.

Now, I will give you (from a previous post) that there are many people who are very scared of being attacked but that does not take away from the fact that they have a right to defend their life.

This poster is afraid the boogeyman is going to break into his house. Must be tough to go through life in constant fear

What world do you live in? Is it all full of rainbows and kittens? Crap happens everyday and is getting worse. I sleep well at night. I am not up having an anxiety attack thinking of someone breaking in. You know why? Gun under my pillow (no bullet in chamber, now that would be an IRRESPONSIBLE owner), shotgun on other side of bed, as well as my husband having a .45 (and he carries).

It is an absolute shame that this happened and it really did not have too. I feel so sorry for the family.

My mom lived to be 88 , she lived alone in the city of Titusville in FL. She slept with a loaded 38 under her pillow. I always called before coming over.

Sorry , Early out but i respectfully disagree with you. Should you get your way . I will be a outlaw . My mom is no longer with me . She dies of old age and i am not going to give up that handgun she gave me.

Gun under my pillow...

Thanks for providing such an outstanding example of the kind of bed-wetting fear I'm talking about. You've allowed yourself to be frightened to death by the people around you. What a terrible way to go through life.

my pillow..

I tried to be nice BUT frankly , your a idiot. I am placing you on my ignore list .

I believe we have beat this horse to death too so i am going to stop tracking it. Early you have no respect for me (also your reading comprehension is poor to say the least)and now i have none for you.

Early you have no respect for me....

Well, my post was directed at lovetherain, not you. But I feel sorry for your mother, as well. It's very sad that she allowed herself to be so frightened by the fantasies of people around her. I suspect she would have enjoyed life at least a bit more if she hadn't been so afraid.

And by the way, trying to use the death of your mother to bolster your argument is almost embarrassing. You should be ashamed of yourself.

Early out you are ridiculous TROLL !

They're a bunch of scared little rabbits, perpetually on the brink of soiling themselves because they think they're in constant danger.

Actually, EarlyOut, that statement describes the gun-grabber crowd perfectly. Must really suck to go through life being so terrified of an inanimate object.

Why is stupidity the norm?

akman65-

"The parent in this article NEVER had gun safety or training I can assure you."

And you know this to be an absolute fact? How?

He had his finger on the trigger.

The lack of rational counters to my arguments is very telling. Face it - if you think you need a gun, you're just afraid. No other justification makes any sense. I'm the one who has wandered the streets of cities and towns all over the world without a weapon, the one who's camped out alone for days at a time in grizzly bear territory with nothing more deadly than a pen knife. So who's the coward?

Gun owners often claim that they need to be armed to protect themselves. But it never seems to dawn on them that this country suffers from one of the highest rates of gun violence in the world precisely because we're awash in guns. Yeah, you need protection - from all the other armed people out there. Then they try to convince us that the solution is even more guns. That's like someone saying that he drinks to forget that he's an alcoholic, and that the way to solve his problem is another fifth of vodka.

EarlyOut-1524710

Most people that are responsible and have guns are not afraid. We do not fantasize about using them or even want to. It is like having a can of bug spray in a cabinet. You do not fantasize about bugs, but you have the spray to use in case you find a nest of black widow spiders under the sink or something similar.

A pistol is the same as you do not want to have to use it, but if you are home and some criminals break in, you will want to have it so that you can protect yourself. It is just for larger and more dangerous bugs.

I am an older female and a responsible gun owner. If I see something wrong, I call the police. However, I know there are time restraints keeping the police from being within reach immediately in case of an emergency. This is not the future where you can push a panic button and the police or sheriff can transport immediately into my house to defend me from some idiot high on coke or meth that wants to rob me and possibly rape or kill me.

Until you have been shot at or lived across the street from drug dealers or have listened to gunfire in your neighborhood at night, then please shut up regarding the responsible gun owners. It is a life changing experience. I am not afraid. But I am prepared. My bug killer is just for larger bugs. I guess if you have never had those problems, you are very young, well off or on the other side who does not want honest and responsible people from having guns, which would stop you!

EarlyOut-1524710

Just for your information, I never had a gun until a sheriff told me to get one and carry it. Police and law enforcement are glad many responsible people carry guns. It makes their job easier.

I also think it is horrible of you to critisize retiredcoastguard's mom. You have not walked in her shoes. Get a real life. Quit trolling.

Until you have been shot at or lived across the street from drug dealers or have listened to gunfire in your neighborhood at night, then please shut up regarding the responsible gun owners.

You really don't get it, do you? In most of the civilized world, you wouldn't be hearing gunfire in your neighborhood at night. You wouldn't be shot at. You're being forced to live with that because we're in a country that's drowning in guns. More guns won't fix it.

The gun in your home is more likely to end up shooting you, or a member of your family, or a friend, than it is to shoot a criminal breaking into your house. And if some crackhead breaks in to rob you, pulling a gun on him is probably not a great idea. There's a fair chance he'll get the gun away from you and use it against you. Or if he's armed, pulling a gun on him is just going to push him over the edge - he's probably already pretty jittery. Better off playing possum and letting him steal your wallet. Are you willing to die for $27? Having a gun in your house doesn't really make the odds shift in your favor, and all the crime stats prove it. Getting the guns off the streets would make you a lot safer.

I also think it is horrible of you to critisize retiredcoastguard's mom.

Oh no, you're not getting away with that. retiredcoastguard tried to strengthen his position by dragging his poor dead mother into it. It was a cheap, intellectually dishonest tactic, and I called him on it. "How dare you suggest that I give up the handgun that my sainted mother gave me?!" What a crock.

EarlyOut-1524710

You really don't get it, do you? In most of the civilized world, you wouldn't be hearing gunfire in your neighborhood at night. You wouldn't be shot at. You're being forced to live with that because we're in a country that's drowning in guns. More guns won't fix it.

Actually, I do get it. I live in this world and have been through all of that. The United States is not that civilized. I do want responsible people to have guns. You are the one that has never been out in the real world. As far as my gun(s) shooting me, no, I am a responsible gun owner. I have training that I go through regularly. I do not keep one under the hammer or in the chamber.

You are the scared one, wanting to get rid of all guns. You are a coward. I would tell you that to your face if given the chance. You are the one that does not get it. You are the one that lives in a dream world of safety. I do not need a gun for that.

And yes, it is still horrible of you to criticize retiredcoastguard's mom.

Early, your ignorance is showing...

The lack of rational counters to my arguments is very telling. Face it - if you think you need a gun, you're just afraid. No other justification makes any sense.

That wins the award for dumbest comment in the thread. Here's a rational counter to that bone-headed statement: The gun is the only personal weapon that puts a 100-pound woman on equal footing with a 220-pound mugger, a 75-year old retiree on equal footing with a 19-year old gang banger, and a single guy on equal footing with a carload of drunk guys with baseball bats. The gun removes the disparity in physical strength, size, or numbers between a potential attacker and a defender.

Cue the crickets...

EarlyOut,

I served 8 years in the US Army, 16 Months at War. I grew up in New Haven, CT--- Look up the Crime stats, I personally HAVE been robbed by someone claiming to have a gun. I do Armed Security full time for a job and carry most days outside of work. I am VERY confident, and carry myself with respect and dignity. I dont need a weapon to protect myself. I have my pistols for target practice mostly, but if needed, it is on my side for personal protection. Your Anti-Gun views are a major issue in this country. You feel that everything is all hunky-dory but guess what, its not! If you take all guns away from those that are legally armed, as was stated above, ONLY a criminal will have a gun. This makes a Very easy target for them to take advantage of.. The average Police Response time is 6 minutes, It takes a Legally armed citizen a matter of seconds. Which would you rather? Also, Police are NOT obligated to protect you, they are a Reactionary force. Look at several cities within the US that have a weapons ban, not allowing people to carry, Washington DC, New York, Chicago, Look at the crime rate in these cities, its the highest in the nation, goes to disprove your little theory that taking the guns away will make it easier to get them from the criminals... Again, Criminals DONT OBEY THE LAW. Sorry to burst your Fairy Land Bubble.

Early tell that to the literally thousands of women that are violently raped ever year, the thousands of people that are killed by home intruders also. How about the look on your wife's face when she is beaten and raped in your own home and you say "aren't you glad we didn't have an evil gun in our home honey to stop this from happening?" Remember this very true statement. When seconds count cops are only minutes away. Also cops are not legally responsible to protect you. All the are good for is writing up and solving the crime after it happens. This come from a case when a cop stood by and watched a man beat his wife nearly to death and the cop did NOTHING to stop him.

David, you say that you don't need a weapon to protect yourself. Then you say, "it is on my side for personal protection." Which is it?

Your argument about only criminals having guns is the same as saying that some drunks are going to drive, so we shouldn't bother making it illegal. If we start chipping away at it, removing guns from the streets at every opportunity, not manufacturing new ones, not manufacturing more ammunition, the guns will gradually disappear. I'm not willing to throw up my hands and declare that the problem is so completely out of control, we can't do anything about it. We've tried it your way for a couple of centuries, and IT ISN'T WORKING.

airlar73, you're peddling fear, and it's not convincing. You've been watching too many crime shows on TV.

"Problem with liberals is they are always scared"

Now let me understand this. My conservative gun owner, NRA loving neighbor has to carry a loaded gun everyplace he goes. He thinks he should be able to carry a gun on an airplane. He even carries a gun in church. When he's in a restaurant, he has to sit facing the door. But are always scared???

Tiredoldman, you can't just make up numbers to support your beliefs. Good stats are tough to come by (largely because different jurisdictions define crimes in different ways), but the FBI numbers indicate that the number of people killed by robbers was about 800 in 2011, and that includes robberies in places like convenience stores, not just homes. I'd be willing to bet that the "home intruder" killings represent far fewer than half of those deaths. That's out of a population of well over 300,000,000. In short, it happens very, very infrequently.

And it's dwarfed by the number of people who killed each other in the course of domestic disputes, drunken brawls, arguments over money, etc., etc., all instances in which the victim knew his or her killer. And then there are the accidental shootings, which all too often involve children.

"Responsible gun ownership" is a lot like "clean coal." Mythical.

The gun is the only personal weapon that puts a 100-pound woman on equal footing with a 220-pound mugger....

This one is almost stunningly silly. I can just picture it... The mugger is going to approach the woman from the front, announce that he intends to mug her, and give her 15 or 20 seconds to fish around in her purse for her gun, take off the safety, chamber a round, and aim. Right.

There's a difference between a mugger attacking someone who doesn't have a gun, and attacking someone who does. In the first case, the mugger is going to end up with $100 and a couple of credit cards. In the second case, he's going to end up with $100, a couple of credit cards, and nice new gun.

If you take all guns away from those that are legally armed, as was stated above, ONLY a criminal will have a gun

...for a while. But gradually, as criminals are forcibly disarmed and the availability of guns declines, access to firearms by criminals will decline as well.

It's a specious argument, as is the argument that an armed citizenry is safer when statistically there is little evidence to show that handguns help the legal gun owner when confronted by an assailant. I would suggest that in any given time frame, there are far more people killed by handguns accidentally, many of them innocent children like this case, then there are crimes prevented by them.

Early tell that to the literally thousands of women that are violently raped ever year, the thousands of people that are killed by home intruders also.

Approximately 2/3 of rapes were committed by someone known to the victim.
73% of sexual assaults were perpetrated by a non-stranger.
38% of rapists are a friend or acquaintance.
28% are an intimate.

from: http://www.rainn.org/get-information/statistics/sexual-assault-offenders

Now, considering the fact that MOST rapes are committed by a person the victim knows, how many do you think would have been stopped by a gun???

Forget all that...from the same page...4 in 10 rapes occur in the victim's home. So, assuming the victim is following NRA safety rule 3 (http://www.nrahq.org/education/guide.asp) "Always keep the gun UNLOADED until it is needed" the victim would hardly have a chance of getting to the gun, loading it, and shooting it all the while trying to fight off someone with whom they are acquaintances???

Sorry, but "I have to have a gun to protect myself from a rape" is about the lamest reason to have a gun around that I've heard...geez! (and again...I have guns in my house, but I really don't intend on them being any good if ANYBODY decides to try to rape me.

Gun owners are scared little rabbit huh tell that to my friend who never goes anywhere without a .45 on his hip he flew medi-vac choppers in Nam was shot down twice and had to counter rotate into hot LZ's he told me about one incident where a VC ran toward him and he shot him in the chest with his .45 and the guy jumped back up and started shooting again. He emptied his .45 into the guy to keep him down but he's just a scared little rabbit huh. How about my brother who spent 33 years in the military starting with the Marine Corp. in 1959 and served in the Air Force and Army Res. finally retiring a couple years ago. I guess he's just a scared little rabbit too. Shove you IDIOT comment and your SOCIALIST Ideals up your you know what.

Look at England they banned firearms and recently I heard they busted a factory making black market firearms and distributing them to gangs and drug dealers. Now they want to ban sharp pointy kitchen knives that should work out well too since I could just sharpen a stick and stab someone I'll bet even the Brit's can learn to do it too.

Why is stupidity the norm...what responsible father has a few beers and gets behind the wheel---no less with son in tow? You were trying to give a reason for carelessness and idiocy with an object that can take a life...and yes I know it was made up...but still. In my world, you can't be a great dad and be careless with a weapon, no matter the "reason" or excuse.

I agree with akman65. This father did not take safety courses or was never taught to respect a firearm. People who do never accidentally shoot their kids let alone any other living thing---accidentally---because their guns will never be pointed at something they do not intend to shoot.

@unrealistic, AK

Gun owners often claim that they need to be armed to protect themselves. But it never seems to dawn on them that this country suffers from one of the highest rates of gun violence in the world precisely because we're awash in guns. Yeah, you need protection - from all the other armed people out there. Then they try to convince us that the solution is even more guns. That's like someone saying that he drinks to forget that he's an alcoholic, and that the way to solve his problem is another fifth of vodka.

You and I have fu..,, this pony, got the t-shirt, and declare, I WIN. And trust me, I am not pissing my pants but looking for, knowledgeble discussion, without calling names. We are not in elementary school, well at least I am not. But, the difference is, there is not conceding (on your side) to ones beliefs but having the knowledge for those who own guns. You actually have not given why you believe what you do. You cannot answer questions but you will sling sarcastic idiocracy, when you have no clue.

That is called a debate. Learning from those who can give you some knowledge. Weather you believe it or not, give your knowledge, without your own personal opinion.

You're exactly right... This father killed his son by not following the simple rules of handling a firearm. this was a senseless death. Put a child in a car seat for is safety but point a loaded gun at him. that comment is the ignorance surrounding firearms. ..

Cars don't either....but stupidity sure does.If we got rid of motor vehicles AND guns look at all the lives we could save!

Drivers are required to have a license and own car insurance. It doesn't prevent car accidents, but considering cars are used a heck of a lot more on a daily basis by virtually every adult than guns are, it works pretty well. Why not require a license that verifies training and insurance to cover death or damages when the gun is misused?

When I was nine years old, I found the automatic pistol my parents kept hidden under some clothes in their bottom dresser drawer. I use to take it out and look at it when they weren't at home. It was the first real gun I ever saw, and even I had enough sense not to pull the trigger or aim it at myself. I figured out out how to pull out the magazine and eject the round out of the chamber before looking at it closely. Never had an incident.

The only crazy thing I ever did that was gun related, was to whack blanks with a hammer to make them fire.

BP the grape wrote:

"When I was nine years old, I found the automatic pistol my parents kept hidden under some clothes in their bottom dresser drawer. I use to take it out and look at it when they weren't at home. It was the first real gun I ever saw, and even I had enough sense not to pull the trigger or aim it at myself. I figured out out how to pull out the magazine and eject the round out of the chamber before looking at it closely. Never had an incident...."

And yet it would appear from your post that you do not even know the difference between an "automatic pistol" and a semi-automatic pistol, ... which suggests you may have avoided injury or tragedy as a 9-year-old by pure, dumb luck!

Food for thought.

Guns dont kill people, a Gun itself is an Inanimate object, just like a Hammer, Rock, or a car. It takes a person providing what ever action to fire a gun, swing a hammer, throw a rock, or drive a car for which ever action will happen. A gun itself sitting on a table will not hurt a single person at all. Please educate yourself as far as that goes. Guns dont kill people, Idiots with guns kill people.

David-1778154 wrote:

"...Please educate yourself as far as that goes. Guns dont kill people, Idiots with guns kill people."

David, your un-original argument is moot. It matters not if guns kill people or idiots with guns kill people. It is a distinction without a difference. Guns are the common denominator, ...and the people are dead!

Please educate yourself and strive for original thoughts, rather than relying on the regurgitation of nonsensical soundbites from the NRA.

Guns dont kill people, Idiots with guns kill people.

No, not idiots. Just people. People with guns kill people - and they kill more people than those who are armed with less lethal tools, like knives and rocks and baseball bats. So let's not ban handguns, but limit access to them much more stringently and thus keep guns away from those who aren't qualified (kids, idiots, emotional basket cases and psychopaths) or prepared (trained, licensed) or entitled (i.e. criminals) to own them. The problem isn't the tool, it's unfettered, unqualified access to it.

The primary purpose of a handgun is to shoot someone. That makes it quite different from a car, since running over someone isn't on the list of purposes for that tool, yet we require training and licensing for a car in every state. Roughly the same number of people die each year from both guns and cars, even though there are many times more cars and drivers than there are guns. The comparison between cars and guns is simply specious. Let's compare guns to, say, bazookas instead. See how that holds up.

Just because a person is required to have insurance and apply for a driver's license does not mean it significantly makes the rest of us safer on the road. There are far more car accident injuries every single day than gun injuries so your thought is flawed. You can't ignore a large portion of statistics to compare the two and conveniently forget facts on top of it.

By the way, car insurance does nothing but make big businesses lots of money on the premise of possible injuries many of us never have to face. Just like health insurance, it is a bit of a rip off in that it is a for profit business. If it were not, then it would be a sensible model. That said...gun insurance? For what? So you can know the person carrying a weapon behind you will not blow your head off or they will have to pay your family lots of money? Please...a person who is walking behind you thinking about blowing your head off is going to do it regardless of any laws like "gun insurance"...and guess what? That person is most likely illegally possessing said firearm too...the same kind of person that gun control laws already cover but we want more laws to protect us? Yeah. Perpetuate the issue. I'll keep my guns and mind my own business, safely.

Re-read the article. The father was leaving the gun store and a gun discharged from somewhere else.

yeah dude learn how to read before making accusations like that. you can offend ppl that way. idiot. this article wasnt very informative to begin with. it doesn't say who's gun went off or how it was fired or why and how it was even pointed at this boy's chest. it didnt even state his condition. don't go off on people until you know the complete story moron.

@chuckzu

lhttp://www.heraldstandard.com/united_states_ap/officials-boy-shot-to-death-at-pa-gun-store/article_5120a110-86e2-506e-b1ff-fcc2e6b98238.html

It was the father's handgun. This article did NOT state who's gun went off. The link above does state it and the father had a loaded handgun IN HIS HAND when he got into his truck. So before everyone slams Tony, do some research and MSN is not exactly doing research. Sloppy journalism again and again.

Yeah amanda, that makes it okay if the shot came from another truck. Geez, reality check. Most of these gun nuts that go to places like these, have no business with any kind of weapon in their possession. He was trying to make "little Johnny" a man and look what he got. He shouldn't be allowed to reproduce, much less have a gun. I'm sure he'll have to sell a couple of his ATVs to pay for the funeral.

A 7-year-old boy was fatally shot in the chest Saturday by his father outside a gun shop in western Pennsylvania, according to a Pennsylvania State Police report.

Must have changed the article since you read it. That happens a lot on this website.

So I am guessing the update was added after the comments. The dad accidentally shot his son. Good Lord, this guy had no gun safety sense at all.

I say it!!! His father killed him by pointing a loaded firearm at his child.... The "gun" if handled correctly will never kill anyone

The reason that we have guns is so that we can protect ourselves from a government full of psychopaths like you.

Anybody is welcome to come to my door and ask for my guns. I'll be happy to give them the gun bullets first (the lesson to be learned is that they had better be wearing a lot of kevlar).

BLS- You do realize that you've publically declared your house a "no gun" zone. Good luck with that herd of looter zombies that are going to come "a calling". Moron.

"Think of all the jobs this will create"

really dude? your an idiot. taking guns away would not create jobs, use the little common sense you have. do you know how many gun shops would put their owners and workers out of work? @!$%#ing moron. not only that but we have the right to bear arms for a reason. you'll learn that eventually.

go back to history class.

BLS All guns need to go. No exceptions. We can go door to door and collect them if we have to.

Maybe you would like to be the one who comes to my house and "collect" mine. That would create one job, for the undertaker, but if that's what you really want,come on!

Hey libtard you said ban all guns and then finish with a statement bout using a shotgun. Nuff said there.

The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

Uh, BLS - if all guns must go, no exceptions how exactly will the following scenario happen? "They might like the feeling of being spread eagled and handcuffed on the floor with a shotgun pointed on the back of their head." Where exactly will the shotgun come from? I have no problem with guns. Y'all can have all you want and can afford. My problem is with the bullets. We should start charging $100 per bullet and folks will be a lot more careful with them.

Also, no one seems to be reading the article which clearly states "When Loughrey, 44, was getting back into the truck, police say he accidentally shot his son, Craig Loughrey." The father shot his own son. He will probably never get a good nights sleep for the rest of his life.

As you can see from the responses by so-called responsible gun owners that BLS probably isn't far wrong. Just look at the insane responses from people who would rather kill people just to keep their guns. Doesn't show much sanity right there does it.

missamy-1330543, this stupid father SHOULD NEVER get another nights good sleep for the rest of his life. He should be racked with guilt forever because of his stupidity that lead to the death of his child.

CT, you still don't get it. Arms are not limited to guns. Do you support my right to join with my neighbors to buy a few missiles, anti-aircraft guns, and all the other necessities of a well regulated militia? We may need them to protect ourselves from Texas or the House of Representatives. Therefore, we are entitled to them. When you push the bear arms agenda, remember you are no longer talking guns and cannons.

Witty,

Yes, the Constitution gives you the right to own missiles and anti-aircraft guns. If you don't like it (and I'm not saying I do) then amend it. But until it is amended no court should get in the way.

Tell that to the people in Syria were private gun ownership was illegal. They are close to over throwing the countries corrupt regime. A regime with tanks, jets and heavy artillery. A well arm militia could overthrow this government using asymmetrical warfare also.

@ amandajovilly89

It's ok to disagree but no need to get SO nasty!

I am with Tony, a responsible gun owner would never had let this happen. The gun had to be loaded, it had to be pointed, it was irresponsible all the way.

A father shoots his boy and "@!$%# happens"? Tony is right. Anyone who knows how to handle guns would never let this happen. It's so fantastically easily preventable.

And the Twig's store should have their gun license revoked for letting this father leave the store with a loaded gun. If he was trying to sell it to them why didn't this so-called responsible store actually check to see if the gun was loaded when he brought it in and unload it?

I've NEVER been in any decent gun store that doesn't demand that ANY weapon brought in the store be unloaded and open. If this store doesn't have such a policy they should lose their licence and their business.

That is easier to arrange than you may think. Just go to an NRA conference, cut the power to the meeting room and roll in a couple of firecrackers in different directions. Then run as fast as you can so you don't get caught in the crossfire. They will all shoot each other. Problem solved.

And the father of that 8 year old who killed himself firing a machine gun was a doctor. How stupid can you be?

Amazing how many people in this forum have such long pointy fingers, as if they've never done anything stupid in their life and are just fortunate nothing tragic happened. The name calling makes it seem as if there are virtually no people with any sense of decorum and/or an above average level of intelligence who bother to comment.

"All they care about is the selling of guns! Fact!!!"

Thank you for your ...... OPINION.

TONYWARVET

Does it hurt to be a dumbass?

Actually Tony is pretty much stating a fact even if you don't want to believe it. If you actually do the research you will find the NRA is basically against ANY KIND OF CHECKS OR RESTRICTIONS. The ones they have let get through are so watered down they are virtually useless.

Far fewer children are killed by guns than are killed by Liberals having abortions. Don't act like you care about children or any life for that matter when you lobby to kill the unborn. They just use these tragedies to further their anti gun agenda.

http://www.heraldstandard.com/united_states_ap/officials-boy-shot-to-death-at-pa-gun-store/article_5120a110-86e2-506e-b1ff-fcc2e6b98238.html

After I read an MSN article I simply look it up elsewhere to get the whole story. The father's gun DID indeed go off.

Some additional info:

http://triblive.com/news/adminpage/3101251-74/loughrey-police-state#axzz2EV0mzRwn

It was the dad's gun. He was holding it according to this paper.

No charges at this time. Wow. What if he would have backed over his kid with the car or knocked him off of a 10 story building? People don't get charged with anything when they kill people? I understand it may not have been intentional, but what about negligence?

Then again Sad some people like you just want to find someone to blame as if that would have changed the end result. Amazing how some look at life...

If you can't keep guns out of the hands of people like that and you can't punish them after they kill a child, how do you change anyone's behavior?

That's right Tonywarvet, unfortunately most psychopaths weapon of choice is... CONGRESS.

I'm pretty sure people are against AIDS, too.

Again Sad you missed the point. Go after the root cause of AIDS and stop it. Ban procreating with multiple partners but no that would infringe on their rights you liberals are nothing but a Sad joke.

Once again, I think the string here was supposed to be about how a boy who got shot, not about AIDS. Oh, but I guess when one is used to seeing the world in black and white, they have to attach other issues together without nuance or circumspection. Oops, sorry, I didn't mean to use such big words. Here you go, try

I thought the root cause of AIDS was the HIV virus.

The root cause of AIDS/HIV is an immoral lifestyle. Live in the lie and ignorance and die.

"The root cause of AIDS/HIV is an immoral lifestyle."

Tell that to all the children in Africa dying of AIDS, Bob. Get a soul.

Your conservative icon Ronnie Reagan deliberately ignored AIDS epidemic in the US.

"How many children have we lost this year??"

1.3 million abortions in the USA, this year.

Sure glad EVERYONE has their guns to protect themselves!!! How many children have we lost this year??

Should we outlaw cars too? How about open windows ?

Do the statistics on the number of "children" killed by guns every year include gangbangers under 18? Yup, thought so.

@champagne:

What's a bigger tragedy, stopping a development of a clump of cells with no conciousness, emotions or memories, or death of a 7 year old who had all this?

Ummm, I'm pretty sure this string was about a child getting shot with a gun, not abortion Mr. champagnesabre.

"Mr".... ?

Sorry, should I say "Dude" (or Dudette :)

I think it's individual women who get abortions, not the "democrat party".

And I think it's an individual who makes a mistake with a gun, not 100,000,000 gun owners.

I agree completely, and I have many friends who own guns and I'm sure they are very responsible with their weapons. But plastic guns? Assault rifles? Loaded guns around children? No controls on preventing mentally ill or mentally incompetent people buying guns?

The NRA is constantly wailing about how Pres Obama wants to take away your guns. When did he EVER do anthing to infringe on gun rights? The NRA needs to moderate their stance if they want to be considered anything less than a fringe right-wing organization.

I'm NOT in the NRA... And I vote too.

What I do not understand is why the manager of the shop did not check the gun when it was first brought in? Aren't THEY supposed to be a bit smarter than the owners? Oh, I forgot. They only SELL guns.

When your wife gets home afters being raped in an alley, be sure to tell her that she didn't need a high powered weapon.

@champagnesabre

That is not what Tonywarvet meant. Of COURSE being armed could help. But you mean she should be carrying an M-16 or assault rifle?

@champaniesabre:

When you or your female relative gets pregnant from a rape, will you want the foetus carried to term?

"I will never own a gun or have one in my house"

So, put a sign on your lawn.

The rapists will know where they are safe.

This guy chose to own a gun. The very least he could have done was take some gun safety classes. It should not have been loaded, it should have been holstered or contained in some way, and at the very least, if he wasn't going the responsible route, he should have made sure his son was nowhere near it.

Because every house in the US gets burglarized and women in their homes get raped all the time? I'm not that paranoid. I refuse to live in fear in the land of the free. And who told you that the gun will protect you 100% of the time, you still can have a gun in the house and wake up to a burglar with a gun pointed to your face. The second amendment is there for people like you, and the first amendment is for people who want to criticize the second amendment. We are both protected under the constitution.

In 2010, almost 33,000 people were killed in or by automobiles. Maybe we should make cars and trucks illegal to operate as well.

Cars are a necessity, guns aren't. I bet the father wishes he never saw one. Now for the rest of his life, he will live it knowing he killed his kid. One less gun advocate in 2012. Merry Xmas

MCR.. If the gun was never invented , life would great , but i live in the real world . We banned drugs , their still out there. We banned prostitution , it still happens. We even banned liquor once. Do you see a reoccurring theme here?

The difference is , some of those crimes and bans do not effect me so much. Why do you want only outlaws to own guns?

Banning guns will not work. You will just create a lot more criminals from otherwise law a biding citizens and drive up crime from heavily arm non law abiding ones.

Santa Clara: I, too, refuse to live in fear in the land of the free. Unlike gun control freaks, I have no irrational fear of law-abiding citizens owning and carrying firearms. Yes, unfortunate accidents like this one happen sometimes, but you can't go through life being afraid.

I am not in favor of banning guns, but I believe that everyone should not have one. I think some sort of mandatory gun classes should be taken before issuing a licence to carry. I actually went to a range in Braintree, MA a couple of years ago and enjoyed myself, use a 9mm and it felt gooooood.