I'm ready.. they'll mostly be 'guns don't kill people, minorities do'

and be ready for the comments .... here they come ....

Gee, coming from the "Comment" icon you have to click onto to get to the "Comment" vine.

I actually have "No comment".

Well, Doug, then they'll be correct, won't they?

NBC News should just cut and paste an old Newsvine thread from a previous shooting story every time this happens to save everybody the time of having to repost their comments for the thousandth time.

These shootings are like popcorn. Cook the corn enough and after a bit you hear a "pop." Then "Pop. Pop." Then lots and lots of "Pops." Then all the "Pops." People are being cooked good. They are about to all go off.

I personally think it's astounding that we've become so used to having the same conversation about guns that we're too lazy to post the comments again. Says a lot about how often this type of thing happens in our country.

Minorities... not long until they are the majority.

please - let me be the first! guns don't kill people !

He fled in a Jeep Cherokee. Oh the irony.

Porterville is extreme southern California. This is where the migrant workers and the ignorant metro LA people live. Central California is Sacrament and S.F., where it bends. Northern California is the Sacramento Valley to the Oregon border. Most people have as much as a clue as what California geography is as Zimbabwe.

Minorities are ALREADY the majority!! We're in TROUBLE!

Tune in tomorrow for more,

Get ready next month for a new series..

What?? A shooting in Kalifornia??? Aren't guns nearly outlawed in that goofy state?? How can this be???

Starderup

Your Geography IFOS This was on and Indian Reservation in Central Ca Extreme South is La And San Diego

has Nothing to do with immigration Unless you are referring to the white people that put these people on a reservation.

Truly.. sad that children are part of this madness ....killing Shooting Murder Not Exclusive to just minorities ....check your facts with u.s.justice deportment statistics. Guns Killing Shooting Murder Are inherent To The Human race.100% ...All other species On this planet Don't Murder....they kill to eat...... mostly

@32maniac;

I disagree, especially if we as white citizens would band together and provide said minorities with an endless supply of ammunition with which to kill each other off with. No one can deny that they hate each other so bad their only desire seems to be to kill each other, that being said, they already have plenty of guns so lets just buy them the bulets they need. When they get tired of or run out of oneanother to kill we can dry up the suly of ammo and incarerate the few survivors thereby effectively curbing the ability to breed and wa-la, we will once again be the MAJORITY.

Bank Crime Statistics (BCS)
Federally Insured Financial Institutions
January 1, 2011 – December 31, 2011

Number, Race, and Sex of Perpetrators

The number of persons known to be involved in the 5,086 robberies, burglaries, and larcenies was 6,088. The following table shows a breakdown of the 6,088 persons who have been identified by race and sex. In a small number of cases, the use of full disguise makes determination of race and sex impossible.

White

Black

Hispanic

Other

Unknown

Male

2,478

2,378

415

73

229

Female

220

166

26

4

13

I once made the mistake of driving thru that reservation when headed for the Kern River valley. That place is a complete 3rd world country and the locals all had this look of "Hey an outsider, wonder what he has that we can steal from him". At the first available moment, I got my hand gun and shotgun out, loaded up 2 clips for the hand gun and popped 7 rounds into the shotgun and then proceeded with my drive up the mountain roads. I noticed one of the locals truck was following me from a distance so I never stopped and when I got to the top and on Rancheria road I went South straight over to Wolford Heights before descending down towards Lake Isabella. I kept an eye on the truck and as soon as I got to Wolford they stopped following me. This place should be NUKED.

I live 25 miles from Porterville,Ca.So I know from which I speak.Drugs,gangs and poverty abounds in this area surrounded by farming communities populated by migrant and illegal farm workers.This reservation has a casino and yet these people still live in poverty.Porterville doesn't have many job opportunities so instead of the young people trying to better themselves they go down the same route as their grandmothers and mom's doing drugs,teen aged pregnancy and a welfare check and it's all races.

Cleaning lady. You described the place all too well. That reservation is littered with junk cars and dilapidated trailers. The locals like to break into cars and homes outside of the reservation and then flee back to their self made squallertown and count their ill gotten loot.

Whites are still the majority and are still responsible for the most murders by far.

Minorities averaged about 9,000 murders a year, including 2,000 by operating under the influence.

Whites averaged about 26,000 murders a year, including 17,000 by operating under the influence.

Robot,

Where do you get your numbers. I just checked the FBI site and in 2011 the US murder rate was 14,612 murders. Your comment reminds me of the quote "Figures don't lie, but Liars figure".

That makes you a LIAR.

The last ten year, the US averaged 19,000 deaths a year as a result of DUI and about 17,000 of them were committed by Whites. Ever heard of Driving under the influence death resulting? It is manslaughter and it is a murder. Just because, the FBI does not count DUI deaths as a murder, it is still a murder and the person is still dead. Whites commit DUI three times more than of all the minority groups except the Native Americans.

Keep cranking out those handguns folks.

And so all these dui deaths are, in your mind, considered a murder? What if the only death in those dui deaths was the drunk driver themself? Usually the majority of dui deaths is actually the drunken driver themselves (source MADD). Would that not fall into the catagory of suicide then and not murder? Give it some thought.

Whites commit DUI three times more than of all the minority groups except the Native Americans

That's because a HUGE percentage of blacks use public transportation and may not even have a vehicle.

Robbie and dave - "Murder" and "manslaughter" are legal terms applied to a crime based on the intent of the perpetrator. Intent to kill = Murder, no intent to kill = manslaughter. Gun deaths include murders, manslaughter, accidents, and suicide. There's plenty of room for people to be quoting numbers they found that don't match. Very rarely Robbie would a vehicular death, even if the driver is drunk, be considered murder as the driver likely had no intent to kill that particular person.

Starderup

Porterville is extreme southern California. This is where the migrant workers and the ignorant metro LA people live. Central California is Sacrament and S.F., where it bends. Northern California is the Sacramento Valley to the Oregon border. Most people have as much as a clue as what California geography is as Zimbabwe.

And clearly you don't have much of a clue about California geography as well. Porterville is nowhere near "extreme Southern California". It is most definitely in the Central Valley, probably close to about 200 miles north of Los Angeles. "Extreme Southern California" would be Chula Vista, or Calexico. By the way, you would be extremely, extremely hard-pressed to find someone who considers San Francisco "Central California". When people talk about Northern California, they are almost always referring to the Bay Area, specifically San Francisco. There simply aren't many people who live in the "Sacramento Valley to Oregon border" area, thus while it is "Northern California", it isn't the NorCal people talk about.

So this guy shot all those people at the site, took his two kids, shot them in the vehicle while fleeing the police? Sounds a bit odd to me. I'm sure the ballistics and video will confirm the events.

Don't worry, Alan, we will. 250% of projected goal this year. My profit sharing and salary bonus this quarter will be larger than ever. Thank you.

Exactly, they are almost considered a separate country with their own laws and police.

I have a CPL in two states and recognized it 32 others and they're no good on reservations nor casinos.

Ban handguns.

Ban takenaka.

takenaka

Ban handguns.

Do you think that a ban will prevent would be criminals from obtaining a handgun? A ban will never work in the U.S., mainly because of those of us legal gunowners that will never give over our handguns to a government that would try to take them away. There are always more criminals than available law enforcement. Private gun ownership helps discourage those would be criminals who would otherwise try to break into occupied homes. A bullet from a homeowner travels much faster than a call to 911.

takenaka

The architecture company? Or the Japanese economist?

Are you joking? :)

nvm. Didn't see the poster called Takenaka.

Mark S: So, can they scalp him for his crimes? That might come close to satisfing me over this Mestizo shooting his own children.

cracks me up when i see people claim that legal gun owners would never give up their guns.... they are legal gun owners because they follow the laws. and if the law was to give up their guns, they would be the first to hand them over. am i right?

nvm. Didn't see the poster called Takenaka.

I got a vote for that? That was generous. :)

People get divorced after 40 years of marriage. How long do you think confirmation should take?

Long enough not to shoot everyone involved.

I knew I should have asked for a number. Now that you've given the feelgood answer, do you have one that might have a practical application?

OK, how about long enough to be mature enough not to cheat on each other, to have enough financial resources to afford kids without unbearable marital strain and be sensible enough to split amicably if it comes to that.

denver bill - Too bad there wasn't a maturity test before giving Cynical a keyboard...

Cynical-2946681

OK, how about long enough to be mature enough not to cheat on each other, to have enough financial resources to afford kids without unbearable marital strain and be sensible enough to split amicably if it comes to that.

That would certainly solve the overpopulation problem.

That's because no "civilized" country in the world has such an enormous undereducated, ignorant, irresponsible underclass......despite offering them unprecedented opportunities for self-improvement.

Spider, don't ruin their little bias party with good observational skills and truth. What is the matter with you alluding to the targeted benefits that are spent yearly with zero return on investment! Remember, in todays society Truth is overrated and a shameful personality trait! Succumb already, join the herd, you still have time!

Paranoid much, plinkpog? And if you want a fact, Sarasotan's comment is right on. As is spider's. Both are relevant. So if you're not going to contribute to the conversation, just shush.

Sarasotan

The 2nd Amendment isn't going anywhere, but the irrefutable fact is, no "civilized" country in the world has anything approaching the level of gun violence the US does.

Nice try. The top five countries for intentional homicides (murders) committed with firearms from the Eighth UN Survey on Crime Trends were (1) South Africa -- 31,918 (2) Colombias -- 21,898 (3) Thailand -- 20,032 (4) United States --9,369 and (5) Philippines -- 7,708. This is raw data, so the US would fall even lower in the list if murders per 100,000 citizens were the criteria.

We have gun violence not because of people that lawfully own a weapon and respect other people and the law, it is because of those that have weapons illegally and have zero respect for other people and the law.

I say let's outlaw motor vehicles as more people are killed everyday with cars, trucks, etc. That should satiate the appetite for the gun grabbers! More lives saved and we can still protect ourselves. Man, people need to go to the doctor and reverse their cranial rectal inversion!

Our extremely anti-gun media sensationalizes every report involving guns to give the impression that is all that is going on in the country. Lots of other stories plenty of crime even homicide to report .Practically all other stories are brushed aside in favor of making guns the headline.The media has become an anti-gun entity and takes every opportunity to promote anti-gun sentiment.

"The media has become an anti-gun entity and takes every opportunity to promote anti-gun sentiment."

Damn right, they have and do, because they are flat out owned and operated by the very same SOB's that are trying with every fiber of their beings to destroy this nation and usher in a one world gov. Ah yes, none other than the global elitists.

Yes, that is an odd coincidence because, you see, guns don't kill people. Right? Although, I wonder if the more than 25,00 people who die annually from gunshot wounds would agree.

Can we PLEASE get over this blitherinly stupid Gun/Automobile analogy??? People die in bathtubs, lets ban them, people die of hypothermia, lets ban cold, people die from knife wound, lets ban knives. Blah, blah, blah.

Spider hit the nail on the head. And notice that not once was race involved, because murder spans all races.

Cranial Rectal Inversion...I like that. I'm going to start using it...the phrase, I mean.

denver bill 2
#5.4
do those countries have gun control laws?

Blame the shooter. Period.

@Thank;

Well that goes without saying.

Maybe we should ban killing no mater how or why its done.

Maybe we should ban killing no mater how its done.

We sort of did that... hasn't had much of an affect....

The difference is I can get close enough to fight back to someone coming at me with a rock. I can't if they're using a gun.

Paduki --- most of us just feel the prey (victims) should have a sporting chance; they should have equal weapons. None of these victims had a sporting chance.

The difference is I can get close enough to fight back to someone coming at me with a rock. I can't if they're using a gun.

Fact of the Matter, huh? Fact of the matter is that the vast majority of shootings occur within or just beyond what is known as contact range, meaning that the assailant and the victim could have or just about could have reached out and touched one another. Just because someone can shoot at you from a much farther distance doesn't seem to mean that they do. My speculation would be that most people who shoot other people are not actually regular firearms users and know full well that they do not have developed marksmanship skills, so they shoot from a range of several feet where they know they aren't likely to miss. Quite often they are also not very familiar with the weapon with which they're committing a crime with. They acquired it, they use it once, and they ditch it so as to not be caught with it. They don't want to possess it long enough to risk being caught with it...which means they won't be developing any proficiency with it, either.

A number of US Border Patrol agents killed in the line of duty were hit in the head with thrown rocks. A one pound rock thrown by a grown man that makes a solid hit on his victim has the same kinetic energy as a bullet fired from a 9mm or .38 caliber handgun. With the bullet, the sectional density is much greater and it will penetrate some inches of flesh, often enough to pass completely through a person and keep travelling. A rock can't do that, but will effectively 'dump' all of its energy upon impact into whatever it hits. If that energy is being dumped into your head, you can expect to have a nice subdural hematoma as a result.

If I have a gun I don't have to be close to the POS who is trying to kill me with a rock.

If I have a gun I don't have to be close to the POS who is trying to kill me with a rock.

True. If...

...you identify your assailant soon enough to draw that gun and put it into action. Border Patrol officers are armed, but many of them have been killed by thrown rocks. A holstered gun usually isn't going to stop a lethal threat against your life.

...you can actually hit and incapacitate your assailant, who may be a moving target, behind cover of some sort that will stop or deflect your bullets from striking him, or high enough on drugs that the idea of you shooting him or else the impact of your bullets on his body just isn't registering in his mind when he launches that rock at you.

...your assailant behind you with the rock doesn't happen to be the accomplice in front of you that you've got your gun pointed at.

DO NOT FORGET that your gun is only a threat management tool, it is not a security solution. Just having one isn't going to make you any safer than wearing a seatbelt will if you decide to drive around while wearing a blindfold.

most of us just feel the prey (victims) should have a sporting chance; they should have equal weapons. None of these victims had a sporting chance.

I would like to respectfully interject that there is nothing 'sporting' about any of this. Having and being proficient with an effective weapon may give an individual a fighting chance. But if you're not up to the challenge when it presents itself and did not allow yourself to be available to see it coming, that weapon is entirely useless.

I believe in the instant case they knew he was unstable. If you told me he was a Mexican then I would have to double down on the defense. Proactive is the best defense. But have faith. If he lives he will be in solitary for the rest of his life. You can't let anyone that shot a child out into the prison population, not ever. Even his own people would do him in prison.

@stl;

"there would be a rifle behind every blade of grass." I wonder how many more times this has been a deterrent to our adversaries?

He was correct. I believe it to be a huge deterrent.

WOLVERINES!!

Hey guess what guys :D There is no documented instance of Yamamoto saying anything even remotely resembling what you're quoting.

The fact of the matter is that it is arguable. The actual quote might have been behind evry door,not blade of grass. Regardless I believe you get the point.

The fact of the matter is that it is arguable.

Yes, it is. In my opinion, the problem with guns and gun laws in America is hand guns. Hand guns are the #1 murder weapon in the US, year after year, far ahead of the 2nd most commonly used murder weapon.

The article did not say what kind of weapon Hector Celaya used to commit his murders. But the chances are that it was a hand gun.

An invasion of the US by japan would just as effectively be deterred by rifle and shotgun ownership.

According to the stats, there are approx 20 times more murders with handguns than there are all justifiable homicides. So, having lots of hand guns in circulation means more murder and mayhem and not more self defense. The armed attacker has the advantage, even if the intended victim is armed.

But folks like to take chances, even when the odds are not in your favor. Folks buy lottery tickets, and the odds there are 76,000,000 to 1. And folks buy hand guns amnd leave them laying around the house, thinking that their hand guns will protect them. Does anyone have any data to show that hand gun (or all gun owners) live longer than non gun owners?

While you can argue that it is rationale for someone to think that a hand gun might protect him or herself, it is not rationale to support laws that allow just about anyone (no training, no problem...seething sociopath? sell him a gun and find out!) to legally obtain a hand gun.

@davey;

I was talking about the validity of the quote is arguable sir, not gun laws.lol

Law abiding citizens have the right to bear arms,there is no argument there.

Judging by what appears to be a mugshot I doubt this man did.

Law abiding citizens have the right to bear arms,there is no argument

Law abiding citizens have the right to bear arms, according to the law.

I'm all for armed citizens. I do, however, object to certain arms. For example, I think that we ought to be very careful about who we allow to buy a machine gun. And we are very careful about that. I think we need to apply the same level of care to people who want to buy a hand gun.

BTW, are there any stats that show that gun owners live longer? That their guns really do make them safer than non gun owners?

Sad - So many people willing to give up liberty for the perception of safety.

When you refer to the "perception of safety", are you referring to gun ownership or gun control? If possible, please provide some facts to support your answer.

When you refer to liberty, are you referring to the liberty to own guns, or the liberty to live and not be killed (or worry anout being killed) by a hand gun murderer?

davey-526272,

Even if there are statistics comparing the longevity of those who own firearms as opposed to those who do not, there are so many more factors involved in longevity, that if not filtered out in some way, would render the statistic meaningless.

I actually think Davey has a very good point. And I really dont see how what he said equates to giving up liberty. Im very much for the right to have a gun. And from what I read of Daveys' post, so is he. He is not saying take away our guns. He is saying take away certain types of guns.

Think about it for a moment. Most murders using a firearm come from people carrying hand guns that can easily be concealed. Take away the hand guns and you take away a certain aspect that a criminal needs..surprise. Walking into a store or residence carrying a rifle in full view will most certainly set off some red flags before the crime is even committed.

Im mean seriously..how many people hunt wth a hand gun? What is a hand guns true purpose? What do you really need a hand gun for?

And Im sorry, but concealed carry permits are doing nothing more than bringing back the wild west mentality. I thought we had grown beyond that.

Without handguns, criminals could easily make a sawed-off shotgun to rob a residence or store. Concealing it inside a jacket or one's trousers wouldn't be difficult at all, and it would be much more deadly than a handgun. Criminals may be too lazy to make an honest living, but they're not too lazy to improvise if necessary.

@Davey-526272

Fact - all the gun control laws on the books in California to ensure safety did nothing to save the lives lost in this article, hence the perception of safety. If they did save a life please provide some facts to support your answer if possible.

Do you honestly believe that gun control will keep guns out of criminals hands? Do you believe that criminals will voluntarily line up and hand in their guns? That is like believe laws against drunk driving will eliminate deaths due to DUI. That's just reality.

Yes, when I refer to liberty I do mean the liberty to own guns, regarles of what type that may be.

Most murders using a firearm come from people carrying hand guns that can easily be concealed.

People committing murders with handguns are generally acquiring handguns more because that's what they've been led to believe they're supposed to use to commit a murder with by years of television and movies showing people killing each other with handguns. In most homicides, concealment of the weapon was either a minor factor or quite often not a factor. Either the crime could have been duplicated with a rifle or shotgun, or else the commission of the crime could have been modified slightly so that a rifle or a shotgun would have been usable if that's what the person had available to use. A good number of rifles and shotguns are short enough or can easily (albeit illegally if minimum barrel and overall length limits are violated) made short enough to fit under clothing or in a duffel bag or similar. Oswald wrapped his Carcano rifle up and told people it was curtain rods.

Take away the hand guns and you take away a certain aspect that a criminal needs..surprise.

The more cowardly criminals might be deterred, but the more audacious ones will forget about surprise and just concentrate on the brute 'shock and awe' approach to crime. Also, do not forget that people who are shooting as a sniper use rifles, from concealment and at some distance, and very much have the element of surprise in their favor.

Walking into a store or residence carrying a rifle in full view will most certainly set off some red flags before the crime is even committed.

And it may be no one has any time to react to those red flags because what would have been a crime committed several minutes after the perpetrator walked into the home or business will likely be committed within seconds - enter with rifle or shotgun, and open fire from next to the door. If robbery was the motive, what would have been a very low key robbery quietly committed with a handgun (show the gun, take the money, walk out the door) may instead be a strong arm robbery that is fast and forceful. An increase in robberies with multiple offenders resembling paramilitary operations may also be seen where several men armed with rifles storm an establishment, fire shots, perhaps even shooting people before taking anything, rob, and leave. Anyone who gets in their way will probably be shot at. Remember, bullet resistant vests and many other things common in an urban/indoor environment will stop handgun bullets fairly well, but rifle bullets will fly right through both sides of a Kevlar vest as well as furniture, walls, dumpsters, mail boxes, vehicles, and other things that will often stop handgun bullets. Hiding from a massacre being committed with rifles becomes a lot more difficult with bullets that can penetrate most anything you can hide in or behind! The odds of being struck by errant bullets fired at a robbery scene that may be some distance away are much greater when they're rifle bullets. Someone a block or two away sitting in their easy chair might get hit by one, wheras a handgun bullet would have spent all its inertia much sooner or after passing through fewer obstacles.

how many people hunt wth a hand gun?

Surprisingly, quite a few. Everything from small game and pests (rodents and snakes, mostly) through deer and sometimes even larger game than that, though they're usually accompanied by a guide who has a high power rifle in case even a well placed revolver bullet (.44 Magnum or larger) doesn't drop the animal.

What is a hand guns true purpose? What do you really need a hand gun for?

A handgun is what you carry when you don't expect to need a gun. This is why police officers in the US carry handguns - when it's needed, it's an emergency. But you can go 20 years and never need to draw a gun on duty. In other countries, police often carry automatic rifles and submachine guns on routine patrol. Note that infantrymen do not carry handguns in combat, they carry rifles. Officers and some specialists will carry handguns, but they don't expect to use them as they're typically surrounded by soldiers armed with rifles who will protect them from hostile forces in most cases.

When trouble breaks out, a handgun is what you want to have until you can get to your rifle or shotgun. Many people who have a 'safe room' in their homes have one or more handguns secured in their bedrooms or elsewhere so if an alarm is tripped, they have a usable weapon while they're en route to their safe room where they have a rifle or shotgun to 'greet' anyone who breaks down the door.

And Im sorry, but concealed carry permits are doing nothing more than bringing back the wild west mentality. I thought we had grown beyond that.

Huh? Where do you live? That's exactly the opposite of what's been happening in most places. You hear of a case occasionally where someone got carried away and exceeded what they were legally allowed to do, but it probably doesn't happen as often as it does with police officers, and that isn't exactly a common occurrence. Most of the killings that happen are still being committed by people who were breaking one or more laws before they pulled the trigger, be it they were prohibited from possessing a firearm in the first place, they'd stolen it, or knowingly bought a stolen gun, they were carrying it without a license to do so, while under the influence, had been stalking someone, were going armed with intent, or whatever else.

One needs to be careful that the cure isn't worse than the disease, and so far, a number of gun laws through the years have actually made the problem worse. Regulating the so-called 'Saturday Night Specials' practically out of existence caused crooks of various types to transition from small, cheap, poor quality handguns firing low powered .22 and .32 caliber bullets to much higher quality (and price, but what does that matter if you can get a stolen one?) professional service grade handguns in powerful 'manstopper' .38, .357, 9mm, .40, and .45 calibers. Restrict handguns too greatly, and you'll see real trouble when the bad guys start to increasingly use shotguns with deer slugs and buckshot or high powered rifles that were designed to cleanly kill large game animals such as elk, moose, and bear from hundreds of yards away.

stlhdr208, when I talk about liberty, I refer to the liberty to be free from the tyranny and fear of hand gun murderers.

That is like believe laws against drunk driving will eliminate deaths due to DUI. That's just reality.

As far as I can tell, laws against drunk driving are responsible for a reduction in drunk driving. See

http://www.alcoholalert.com/drunk-driving-statistics-california.html

I believe that those stats show that in California, fatalities from drunk drivers are down significantly over a 30 year period.

Do you believe that criminals will voluntarily line up and hand in their guns?

No, and I never suggested anything like that. Pay attention please.

Do you honestly believe that gun control will keep guns out of criminals hands?

Yes. Good gun control, that is. Nationwide. The kind that has kept machine guns out of the hands of many people. And, today, machine guns are not used very much at all to murder. See? Gun control works.

Kind of like dynamite. You need to be a federally certified explosives handler to be able to get dynamite. Criminals cannot get dynamite.

Fact - all the gun control laws on the books in California to ensure safety did nothing to save the lives lost in this article, hence the perception of safety. If they did save a life please provide some facts to support your answer if possible.

I think it is something of a myth, these so called enhanced gun control laws of California.

This is Texas:

Illegal Arms
Machine gun; short-barreled firearm; silencer; armor-piercing ammunition; zip gun; explosive weapon

Waiting Period
None

Who May Not Own
1. Convicted felon within 5 yrs. of release or parole; 2. Sale, rental, lease, or gift to minor under 18 without parental consent; 3. Confined in penal institution.

This is California:

Illegal Arms
Cane gun; wallet gun; any firearm not immediately recognized as such; short-barreled shotgun or rifle, i.e., barrel of less than 18 inches for shotgun, less than 16 inches for rifle, or less than 26 inches designed to fire a fixed shotgun shell or cartridge; zip gun; any bullet with explosive agent; multi-burst trigger activator; any unconventional pistol; any undetectable firearm.

Waiting Period
10 days

Who May Not Own
1. Concealed weapons, under 21 yrs.; other firearms, under 18 yrs.; 2. Convicted felon, including those certified by juvenile court for prosecution as adult; 3. Addicted to use of any narcotic drug; 4. Anyone whose express condition of probation is not to own firearm; 5. Persons convicted of certain misdemeanors

So, what's the big difference??

Ban private sales of hand guns so the current regulations and background checks can apply.

Davey-526272

I know first hand how ineffective DUI laws are. Just because there is legislation doesn't mean people follow the law.

Now, pay attention here. Do you remember the Oklahoma City bombing? This was not done with dynamite was it? This criminal found another way. (remember that perception of safety?)

Do you remember the North Holywood shootout? Full auto weapons used by the criminals. But wait, how could that be, those are illegal. Laws meant nothing to these men.

Now pay attention this is a direct question to you (AGAIN) - Do you honestly believe that gun control will keep guns out of criminals hands? Do you believe that criminals will voluntarily line up and hand in their guns?

You seem to live under the impression that laws make men safe and that criminals will somehow just fall in line and that's your right. I wish that I could share your false sense of security.

As far as good gun control; please elaborate. This country can't keep drugs from crossing our borders, how are full auto weapons any different? Pahleaaasssseee.

As far as your comparison of Texas and California gun laws there is no difference to people who don't follow laws.

LAWS ONLY APPLY TO THOSE WHO ARE WILLING TO FOLLOW THEM.

Once again, gun control is an example of worthless laws restricting the liberties of law abiding citizens; pay attention.

@ Culheath

I'm sorry, but a ban? Really? That'll stop someone who doesn't care about the law.

Once again, an example of worthless laws restricting the liberties of law abiding citizens.

@ davey - 526272

This banter could go on and on so, my final post to you on this thread, I'm going to throw all you anti-gunners a bone, a potential SOLUTION.....

Now bear with me; repeal all of the useless, ineffective gun laws on the books today. They cost taxpayers millions upon millions of dollars to enforce in vain.

BEAR WITH ME.......

NOW, pay attention. Implement one thing; relevant, meaningful CONSEQUENCES for crimes committed with firearms.

Even pro-gunners like myself would sign on to that!!

Merry Christmas all!!

@stlhdr208, you're telling us that laws mean nothing because some will break the laws anyway? You're advocating for a lawless society just so private citizens can continue selling guns to felons and the cartel without accountability? Are you INSANE?!! What you are advocating, is not far from an anarchist society. This isn't the movies or a multiplayer RPG, son. The victims of anarchist attitudes DO NOT get second lives.

I agree with strict consequences for violent crimes. We have that now. It doesn't get more consequential than life sentences or capital punishment. But we have to catch them first.

There wouldn't be any search or "round-up" of illegal guns, that's nearly impossible. Recovery of illegal weapons comes after a crime has already been committed. That doesn't mean we should continue dispensing weapons to them. I understand some in lax states are loving the extra cash weapon sales to felons and the cartels bring, with no responsibility or accountability, but it's reckless, and the rest of us have to live with the consequences of a few prioritizing personal profit over citizenry safety.

It's really disheartening to know in the face of real national danger there are some who can only be relied upon to do nothing; again, and again, and again...nothing. So, step aside do-nothings, and perhaps the rest of us can save your kids too.

And yeah, those of us seeking reasonable, responsible solutions own guns too. duh

I wish we could get the full story of what really happened. The courts have said that the police have no duty to protect us. Who is gonna do it then? I live with my daughter, in the country, 45 minutes from the nearest cop. I think I will take that responsibility on myself.

WoodmanAZ, I think that society in the future will look back and be pissed that we let our criminal government take our rights while people like you were watching american idol or jersey shore while it happened. Hoping that the guv is gonna protect you shows pretty low mentality in itself.

Buy guns and ammo and stop feeding the machine.

Obamo the usurper in chief doesn't work for US, He works for the NWO and should be inpeached, prosecuted and imprisoned.

@woodsman

"In a thousand years from now society will look back at us and be astounded by our ignorance and low mentality"

We can already look back and see how bold, brazen, murderous and evil governments who took guns away were.

Really, illegal-it happened on an Indian reservation

It's probably one of Obama's Fast & Furious guns.

It's California. He'll get a personal therapy llama.

If he had a bat, knife, or even a rock, the outcome most likely would have been the same.

Or a can of gas and a match. Block doors from opening and set the trailer on fire. Add extra 'coward points' for doing it at night when everyone inside is asleep...

I agree, take the guns away from all "nutjobs." And leave the rest of us law-abiding people alone.

Get a grip! Reality is more people die in the US from medical errors to the tune of approx. 100,000/yr. Since this is a statistic usually covered up by the health care professionals (hospitals, doctors, etc.), it could possibly be even higher. You have a better chance of dying in a hospital than by gunshot!

Outside of the ethical contradictions to this long worn out issue and the inability to solve the dilemma of the illegal hateful and violent behavior of a society's citizens, I was left with the question, after noticing the wild eyes of this guy... what was he on? He is obviously very agitated and hyper. Crack, meth. and other synthetic or addictive self medicating can create a paranoid effect or create a nervous breakdown, jealousy and enough upsetness to create a chemical imbalance in one's system can too. One is always so sad for the innocent victims in domestic violence. There is insufficient services in the area of psychotherapy, not big pharma!, and not enough practicing counselors available in our communities that are affordable.

Violence is not okay, not ever, whatever the weapon. To inflict harm upon another is always against the law.

The "right of psychotic parents"? You sound worse than they do.

Anonymous Insight,

Violence is not okay, not ever, whatever the weapon. To inflict harm upon another is always against the law.

So if some perv is molesting your daughter your cool with waiting the 15 min for the cops to show up?

Yes Navyqmcs, correction and clarification of what should be understood without saying is needed.. there is defense and always has been. Ideally the perv should not be performing the initial criminal act of violence and should not have invaded another's private domain in the first place. I should have been clear. Let me qualify, an aggressive act of violence...ie the initial act of attack is not okay. As long as there are "pervs" out there and not put away in a cell or institution, there will be a need for self defense, and the swords are getting bigger these days unfortunately. Hoping this will be diminished and dealt with soon since the tragedy in CT. :( Thou shalt not kill is the commandment, and we have more civilian deaths by gunshot than all but three other nations in the world. I think they said 8,500 approximately per year for USA on the news last night. Sadly, this is the difference between the ideal and the reality.

Troll.

LOL...Just thought I'd say it before someone else did.