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Subscribe to RSSAfter months of studying the grounds of Florida's largest reform school, a team of anthropologists identify 19 more graves suggesting more boys were allegedly tortured and killed there. WFLA's Yolanda Fernandez reports.
Scientists have found 19 previously unknown grave shafts on the grounds of a notorious Florida reform school, suggesting that many more boys died there amid brutal conditions than had previously been known, the researchers said Monday.
The Arthur G. Dozier School for Boys in Marianna, which was also known as the Florida State Reform School, closed in June 2011 after state investigators and the U.S. Justice Department's Civil Rights Division confirmed widespread abuse over many decades.
The state attributed its decision to close the school to budgetary reasons. Yet long before then, the institution had been the target of investigations and lawsuits alleging not only physical and mental abuse but also forced labor, rape and even murder of the young charges sent to its care since it opened in 1900.
The prominent writer Roger Dean Kiser, author of "The White House Boys — An American Tragedy," about the horrors he experienced while incarcerated there in the 1950s as a child, has called the school a "concentration camp for little boys." He wrote that "a devil was hiding behind every tree, every building and even behind every blade of manicured grass."
They're called the White House Boys because much of the abuse occurred in an 11-room building on the school grounds known as the White House, where former students say they were beaten with leather straps. A group of the former students sued the state in 2010, but the case was dismissed because the statute of limitations had expired.
Previous investigations and records had reported that 31 boys were buried on school grounds, and that most of them died in a fire and an influenza outbreak at the school in the early 1900s. But researchers at the University of South Florida, in Tampa, say they now estimate there are at least 50 grave shafts in the area of the school's cemetery and the surrounding woods. Some graves may have been the final resting place for more than one boy, the researchers said in an interim report released Monday.
Records recovered and examined by the researchers indicate that at least 96 boys and two adults died at the school from 1914 to 1973. Most of boys who were committed to the school and died there were African-American.
Read the full report (.pdf — contents may be distressing for some readers)
But that may be only the tip of the iceberg: The researchers didn't have access to student records after 1960, when such documents became subject to privacy laws. Moreover, researchers couldn't test the entire area because of overgrowth and vegetative conditions, they said.
And more chillingly, there may be other, secret graveyards somewhere on the grounds, given the number of still-unaccounted-for cases and the practice of segregating cemeteries during the first half of the last century, Erin Kimmerle, an assistant professor of anthropology at the university, said on a conference call with reporters. It's highly unlikely that white boys were buried with black boys during those decades, but as yet, the researchers haven't found a previously hidden whites-only cemetery.
"I didn't realize going in how much of a story of civil rights it was," Kimmerle said.
The research team used ground-penetrating radar and other methods to map the school's cemetery and chemically analyzed the soil to identify the number of graves.
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"We anticipated finding about 25 to 30 grave shafts," said Christian Wells, an assistant professor of anthropology who led the anthropological work at the site, "but in fact we found a minimum of 50" — all of them on the north side of the campus, called Boot Hill, where African-American boys were segregated.
A full picture of the sheer scale of the abuses remains difficult to paint, because there are significant gaps and discrepancies in the records, "and the cause and manner of death for the majority of cases are unknown," the report said.
"Many questions persist about who is buried at the school and the circumstances surrounding their deaths," the report said. But Kimmerle said the team had determined that at least 20 boys died within the first three months of having been remanded to the school's custody — probably because they were unable to cope with the crowding and the conditions — and that burial locations were unspecified for nearly three times more African-American boys than for white boys.
University of South Florida
Anthropologists from the University of South Florida marked previously undiscovered graves at the Arthur G. Dozier School for Boys in Marianna, Fla., during field work in May 2012.
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This is such a sad tragedy that these young people had to endure. I pray that all those involved meet their demise before God and that the young men souls rest in peace.
It was very common back in the turn of the 20th Century for children who were boarded in school to be buried on the grounds. Nothing surprising here. Small pox, influenza and measels were a killer in those days.
I'm certain that boys were whipped as was a common form of punishment of the day. Yet, much of what the write contends happened at that school hasn't been confirmed by other boys who attended there.
So people need to hold their judgement!
i think the discovery of the graves is confirmation of what happened there.
Any administrators still alive should be skinned, branded and water boarded!!
Looks like an American Auschwitz. Track down the administrators and give them a fair trial. Then hang 'em.
DAWG!!!! WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT!! This was not a boarding school. It was a reform school. Do you not know the difference? "has not been confirmed by other boys".....go back and reread! "....a group of boys sued in 2010..." Not good enough for. Spanking indeed.....THEY DIED.
Most of the staff during the early years are probably already dead. From 1973 to 2011, we can't get many of the records because of privacy laws; and the watching and documentation of abuses had been started. 1973 and before was almost 40 years ago, and if those staff are not dead, you can bet they have distanced themselves from this gulag of children.
It's hard to say who did what. Prior to 1973, I'm sure children of color didn't fare well on any plane of reality. No doubt certain favorites were put forth as the faces of the population. What went on behind closed doors can only be the stuff of nightmares.
AS for grave locations, ground-penetrating radar will help locate soil disturbances, and then, I truly hope that those who may be buried there are given the due they are owed. If we could take back those horrors they suffered, I'm sure we would line up to see it done; but it's too late now.
The only way we can recompense to these lost souls into make sure it doesn't happen again. We must be ever vigilant to protect the young and helpless. It's our duty; it's our debt.
Previous investigations and records had reported that 31 boys were buried on school grounds, and that most of them died in a fire and an influenza outbreak at the school in the early 1900s-------------
Me thinks you should read the entire article. The influenza outbreak of 1918/1919 killed thousands of people. That's not murder. In the late 70s/early 80 I was stationed at Ft Rucker, AL and worked at an airfield near Elba, AL. When things were slow we'd drive around looking at old family graveyards. It was unreal how many people died during those two years.
I enjoy seeing the rants on here but you all seem to miss one important thing. American society during that time permitted and approved of the measures YOU are now screaming against, just as in a 100 years from now YOUR actions will be viewed differently than YOU now view them. Is that right or wrong? I don't know. I do like to think we are more enlightened today but................
bhigg
Spanking indeed.....THEY DIED.
Please show us where in this article it states these boys died from abuse. It doesn't. What it does say is this------that most of them died in a fire and an influenza outbreak at the school in the early 1900s. Until you know all the facts, which, at this point, even the authorities don't know, maybe you shouldn't express such outrage. The truth may be something totally different than what you have made it out to be in your mind.
I think the statute of limitations should not apply because the entity had continued the practice of murder and abuse up until, im guessing its closure, in 2011, even thou it said budget issue were the cause.
I think we need a clasue in that law that states if the acts continue further than the statute of limitations, its does not apply. So if a person murders someone 30 years ago...and still does it today, that person should be tried as if it happened recently. There are so many crimes that go unpunished and that person continues to keep doing those crimes.
Dawg, you need to read the article a bit better! "The Arthur G. Dozier School for Boys in Marianna, which was also known as the Florida State Reform School, closed in June 2011 after state investigators and the U.S. Justice Department's Civil Rights Division confirmed widespread abuse over many decades".. You DO understand this place has been up and running right up until last year, right???
The people that ran the Justice Department, then and now, turned a blind eye to the horrible conditions at this place (I refuse to call it a 'school') because of greed, plain and simple!! It's always about the money! Politicians were simply brought off every time one or more complaints came to them about the abuse.. It's no different, really, then the same abuse and horrid conditions that most of the men on 'chain gangs' in the South had to endure, except these were boys, not men and most of them probably did nothing very bad in their lives!
As for the state saying the 'statute of limitations' had run out! What a @!$%#ty excuse! The state protected itself from it's crimes, like they always do! Well, they can protect themselves here on Earth but they WILL have to face up and eventually pay for what these boys suffered and, hopefully, they will endure far worse!
The place was hell on earth, Dawg you have no freaking clue... People SCREAMED about if YEARS and the state did NOTHING.. and will continue to do NOTHING.. Easy to make a harsh or brash statement when you or no one you know were involved..
Notice if you were raped by a priest in 1955 you can file a case but, if you were brutalized by the system or state in 1955 there is a statue of limitation.. The church can be held culpable but not the state..
*The only way we can recompense these lost souls is to make sure it doesn't happen again.*
(Sorry, my edit time ran out, and I didn't do a very good job on this sentence in the last paragraph.)
Dawg Pound -What a way to downplay this awful tragedy. You're just downright disrespectful!
Why is there a statute of limitations on abuse and torture? There should be no limitations for them to sue.
This is so sad and sick. Once an institution is so firmly entrenched and not closely held accountable, it becomes too easy for sick individuals to be recruited to maintain the discipline and secrecy it takes to continue to work with other government systems. This seems to be a classic case. Since these boys were mostly black, they were easier for our country to ignore. What a tragedy!!!!
If you have facebook, post this story. These stories need to be heard. It wasn't even closed until 2011.
This is in response to DawgPound who says:
It was very common back in the turn of the 20th Century for children who were boarded in school to be buried on the grounds. Nothing surprising here. Small pox, influenza and measels were a killer in those days.
I'm certain that boys were whipped as was a common form of punishment of the day. Yet, much of what the write contends happened at that school hasn't been confirmed by other boys who attended there.
So people need to hold their judgement!
So people need to hold their judgement? Obviously you didn't take the time to read the PDF file, which is quite long. This is an investigation into this school that was done 2012. One particular entry, about a boy who escaped and was shot in the head by a local deputy or sheriff as they called them in those days. He was firing warning shots and thought he was firing over his head. Really? Police officers don't fire warning shots anymore, I realize that and if they were allowed they would never fire one over someones head. Some families had tried to recover their son's bodies and were told we already buried them. One boy was found after running away, dead under some building and was buried on the schools property the same day he was found. No autopsy they told the family as the body was too decomposed however, they identified his body by his hair and dental charts. Yes some probably died from natural causes but no all.
I think the state used the statute of imitations to avoid an expensive payout. There is no statute on murder, and there shouldnt be limitations on rape and child molestation.
Just another case of the state/federal gov't being incapabe of doing anything wrong or admit to it after its discovered.
Conspiracy theorists unite and revolt. We need to take our country that is supposed to be "FOR, OF, AND BY THE PEOPLE" back. Rampant political corruption, Police murderring citizens every other week, child molesters hiding in plain sight in our churches and evading punnishment, and NO END IN SIGHT!
I'm so sorry for these children and all of the children this is happenning to as we speak (you gotta know this is going on right now in many reform schools). But if its reported they will just sweep it under the rug till the statute runs out then they wil say "OH MY GOD LOOK AT WHAT WE'VE UNCOVERED".
What do we do? How do we fix it? We cant do it through election time cause there are no GOOD candidates to choose from. most people polled say they just vote for the lesser of the two evils. Nobody really has a plan to repair our country, they only know the "other party is wrong".
WE NEED A REVOLUTION AND POLITICAL REFORM AND A REFORM OF THE CORRECTIONAL PROGRAM AND LAW ENFORCEMENT.
(SORRY, I'M RANTING)
Its just this @!$%# just pisses me off and knowing there IS NOTHING WE (as John Q Public) CAN DO ABOUT IT makes me even angrier!
Dawg,
Sorry...a story by MSN with some words neatly packaged must mean it's true (deep sarcasm here). Which means it's witch hunt time for posters. Anybody care to wait and see what the whole truth is or should we just start shooting people now? It sounds like this may indeed be a horrific story, but howsbout we wait to get all of the facts first...hmm? It may be worse than expected, it may not be. Or we can just let emotion rule the day...again...as usual.
Ghastly; not even a horror novel could come up with something like this.
Capt, if you read the .pdf file that is linked in the story, you would find the facts you and Dawg seek.
Doug Pound, it is attitudes like yours that allow for atrocities such as this to happen, and to perpetuate for decades. What a myopic, dismal view of the world you have . . . my prayers go out to any children who's lives you touch!
My god....this sounds just like the movie....SLEEPERS.........I shudder to think this happened to those poor boys.....
Although this place was known as a reform school, it's practices differed only slightly in severity from those of many modern-day "therapeutic" boarding schools for troubled teens. Look up the stories about the Troubled Teen industry and the World Wides Association of Specialty Schools & Programs (WWASPS) in particular, which ran notorious teen concentration camps in foreign countries -- since shut down by local authorities -- but still runs several of these so-called "schools" in the U.S.
Through clever marketing by Teen Help, Inc. and other affiliates, parents with "problem" teens are promised therapy and academics for their child -- the promise that your kid will stop using drugs, having sex, cutting, being bulimic, being gay, or whatever their "problem" behavior is -- and that he or she might graduate (if mom & dad don't run out of money first) from a school that meets state accreditation standards. Program "tuition" typically runs multiple thousands of dollars per month.
What parents are not told is that over 100 teens have died since these programs became popular in the late 90s, and that there have been numerous investigations at the state level and a Congressional inquiry regarding allegations of physical and psychological abuse and even torture at many of these so-called schools. What students are not told is that once they are in the custody of the program, they will have no rights except those they earn by pleasing their new masters. No verbal or written contact with parents, siblings, friends or relatives on the outside, no access to a lawyer or even a medical doctor unless program staff allow it.
If any parent of a difficult teen out there is reading this, please do your homework before handing your precious child (not to mention large sums of your hard-earned money) over to a program or "boarding school" that operates with minimal regulatory oversight, with a history of allegations of horrific treatment of its "students" and with no physical access to your child or unmonitored telephone calls allowed from your child.
The fact that the "school" will suggest you employ a company like Teen Escort Service to deliver your child (in handcuffs if necessary) to the "school" should be a huge red flag that this is no ordinary boarding school.
Thought that there was no statue of limitation on murder...... even in Florida.
What is the statue of limitation for child abuse/rape..... even in Florida?
If there is no statue of limitation on child abuse by a priest... how is it possible that there is now such a statue of limitation when/as it pertains to people employed by the State of Florida? What....think that there was no sexual abuse going on there too? Unless of course.... it is believed that pedofilia was just invented recently.... you know.... in the past several years......
Why are former priests and that guy Sandusky in jail again....? Hmmmm
Just asking.....
I took many ass whippings from a leather belt,switch and other things. I lived through it. It won't kill you but it will sure get your attention.
Do you notice that some of the problem is "privacy laws?" Most of those laws were to protect people from insurance and employers, and also possibly stigma in a community. But when it involves death, it is not a matter of privacy. I am sick of the privacy laws that do not allow people to have their records within a medical facility transferred to another department; those laws need a serious overhaul.
We must assume that some died of disease, but after antibiotics and vaccinations were commonplace, out of a small population of inmates, not many should have died, so there should be few if any after the 1950s. The fact that those bodies are there indicates murder. This is a case for a prosecutor, and despite the failure of a lawsuit, there is no statute of limitations on murder. The entire grounds of the school should be examined. If Florida does not do the right thing, the Justice Department should.
And notice that the conservative Supreme Court is considering two cases that weaken the Civil Rights Act, which would allow the Federal government to step in and prosecute in this case.
That's the right on man. You said it all.
Okicize Wicasa Yata Pi, I think the point is that, in some of the cases, the beatings did kill the children.
It is perfectly understandable that "records" would reflect an innocent cause of death for all involved, regardless of their accuracy. It may also be that previous "investigations" found similar conclusions depending on what entity performed those investigations. Without further investigation by impartial observers the earlier conclusions must be viewed wth great skepticism. The Justice Department needs to fully examine both the so-called records and the physical evidence without the cloak of privacy laws to determine the veracity of earlier probes. The well meaning amateurs noted here only highlight the need for an immediate comprehensive investigation regardless of whose ox may be gored in doing so.
MissCreant, you took the words right out of my keyboard.
When innocents are beaten, tortured, raped and murdered, where is god?
Now if this would of been a Catholic school they would at least be alive..
This is so disturbing....The cruelty of this entire story just makes me sick,because it was a long time ago doesn't make it ok or forgiven....All alive today should be answering questions and in jail ......I read the other files....very long...Wow, it was just EVIL !!!!! Those families with love ones there should follow up and push for punishment for the Evil Doers....the only time I like lawyers is when @!$%# like this happens. LETS SEE JUSTICE FOR THESE YOUNG BOYS !!!
Click on the link for the PDF...especially the bozo defending the place, some kids were buried within hours of their deaths, AFTER the parents were informed, one kid couldn't walk after a beating, then died within weeks, another kid's parents found out about the burial and death 2 weeks later...skim the PDF if you can stomach it...horrors....this means YOU imawhitewolf...the article doesn't do justice.
Eviscerates the inner soul. But it does because we all know that this is story is rife with abundance. We are all connected to the experience somehow. If you have doubts about other children being enslaved, just go to www.hiddenfromhistory.org There, you'll find more of the same, abuse, trafficking, intentional infections of sickness to murder, mass graves, rape...all in the shelter of the perceived work of God. There you'll find a tireless man who is fighting to make a voice for the children who were smothered of a voice for love and safety. WAKE UP AND STAND UP!!!!!!
Debi: "When innocents are beaten, tortured, raped and murdered, where is god?"
He is storing up wrath for everything that He calls "sin."
Do you think you are more righteous than God, because you would zap these people instantly and He doesn't? That's rather arrogant of you in my opinion. The thing is, some of the things you are doing also make Him quite angry, because He is holy and His standard is perfection. If He judged humanity immediately, as you seem to think He should--you might not like it.
You, and everyone else, will be held to His standard. Not He to yours.
You have time to get right with God. But it isn't unlimited.
5 year olds in chains and shackles...10 year olds sold out to work in the mines with adult prisoners...18 year olds not released as they should have been, the school lobbying to extend sentences which should have only been 6 months to 4 years...
Yeah, eventually when they get good enough at sex they get promoted from altar boys to cardinals.
Oh really? Perfection? He supposedly made us in his own image. So why aren't we perfect?
Free will is not perfection when given to imperfect humans. It's like putting a kid in a candy store or a drug addict in a pharmacy.
“Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals,[a] and over all the creatures that move along the ground.” --Genesis 1:26
Why all this hoopla now ?
Where were these mother#$#4rs while the abuses were still going on ? Who dropped the ball on investigating it when the rumors first started floating ?
Incarcerate all the idiot officials who turned a blind eye to it and therefore were complicit in this abuse by acts of omission or commission.
Anyone find it strange that slang for females is a "bird" and the Catholic church has cardinals.
Red bird. I wonder if there is a connection between the cardinal bird and the fact that these guys don't marry.
Red = angry
Angry mothers = emasculated males who join the a priesthood that forbids marriage.
The researchers/scientists expected to find 25-30 grave shafts. They found at least 50 and suspect more. So why would a commenter here think all deaths were from influenza and such ? Maybe they would like to share that info with the scientists because apparently they know more than them. The researchers seem to think something is "off" here. The researchers were not allowed access to more current records because of privacy laws ? So how long are those records private till ? Convenient.
What a horrific practice was going on at this Florida school!
Some of you might want to look into another terrible situation--click> Mississippi town sued over 'school-to-prison pipeline' - CNN.com
Here is an excerpt from the article--
Shoot fire,I bet nothing like this would ever happen in a proud country like America. Ooops, wait a minute, never mind. I hope this story makes it on the front page, above the fold, of every major newspaper on the planet. Let them know what America The Beautiful is really like.
NO it is confirmation that SOMETHING happened there not a confirmation of WHAT happened there.
This article provides no evidence of anything that actually did happen there only conjecture and accusations, throwing in a race card to make sure people get outraged over it.
I agree something happened there and it should be investigated just so we would all know the truth. What appears to have happened there is atrocious but there just is no proof at this time and certainly not enough for everyone to form an opinion that has any merit or basis in fact
I would think that even during the First World War era and the great influenza out break, that kids buried on that campus would have have been given a grave marker and that records of their internment would have been kept. But no... Now authorities have to dig up near century old children's graves and try to identify who they were and cause of death. .... and in our present day, how many illegal aliens are wasting away in the hundreds of INS detention centers without proper and public supervision? Do not be surprised if that largely for profit system turns into a scandal.
Not near enough
The kind of stuff you only see in horror films. I can only hope it wasn't as bad as led to believe from this article, and that the majority of those graves are from illnesses, not abuse. Sickening.
Doesn't surprise me in the least that they did not keep much in the way of records and the state did not care back then.
These were troubled BLACK kids.
Back then the powers that be in the South could care less about a Black kid, to them they were nothing more than animals. I grew up in the South and saw this over and over. I was raised to think that way, thank God I grew up and thought my own way. I sat in business meetings and at events where they called Blacks N--g--rs not in rage, but as the acceptable way to refer to them. I was never more ashamed of my father when he used that term in a meeting. I told him so in the car after the meeting. His response "What are you, some kind of N---r lover?"
The man that wrote the book about these abuses experienced them firsthand, the evidence is there, over 30 tried to sue the state over it but the statute of limitations had expired. (By the way that Statute of Limitations' referred to the civil suit suing the state. Not to actual murders. The people that engaged in the torture and killing there are absolutely no different that the guards who did the same in Nazi concentration camps.
Id like to say it is all better now, but it isn't...we still have a far road to go. I the 'son of former slave owners' share the dream.
J Wolfe there is nothing I can say to you that would be nice in the least. Please leave, the Human Beings are talking.
J. Wolff has no idea he's part of the problem.
And just how would that be in your infinite wisdom? Because illegals are just that illegal and should be detained until deported? Or because this story has no basis in fact and is only a fluff piece designed to illicit an emotional response from morons?
If it is the story then yes something happened there but no evidence exist to create the spew on this thread. In other words it was designed to provoke outrage over a non issue and it is a non issue until facts are presented and not just speculation.
Oh lets not leave this genius out.
Did you buy Nv while I was sleeping? of course not
You did not get any smarter so I guess that high graduation thing did not happen either.
If you want to debate the ideas fine if not put your head back in the sand and leave the conversation to those with some common sense.
Your juvenile comments are just pathetic drivel
I have nothing to post about this article since, unlike everyone else that posted, I haven't read "The White House Boys — An American Tragedy."
I do know that what passed for general punishment for any kid in the early 1900's would land you in jail today.
skohl, if this is your holy, righteous, and infinitely wise God then I spit on his shadow. No loving father would allow this to happen to ANY of his children. Let him come and rebuke me and I'll throw everything that he 'allows' to happen right back in his face. You can't claim absolute authority without responsibility. Satan was created so God didn't have to face his own failures.
I was under the impression that no statute of limitations existed in murder cases....?
J.Wolff:
Read your own words, J.Wolff. An animal shows more respect for humanity than you seem capable. Enough said.
As a former detainee in one of those privately-contracted deportation camps, I can tell you that what wje says is true.
I was internationally adopted as an infant, never told before my parents passed away in a car accident, and when USCIS did a routine record search one day and found they'd lost my adoption paper, they came to me for a copy and I was unable to give them one because I'd never known I was adopted.
I wasn't illegal--I was simply 'undocumented'--missing a piece of paper. But since I was abandoned as an infant at an international orphanage with no paperwork, there was no 'home country' to deport me to, so I was told I would be indefinitely detained until I gave them a copy of my adoption paper.
Human Rights Watch called the camp I was in 'Ritmo'--it was in Raymondville, TX, and they said it reminded them of Guantanamo Bay. Food deprivation, sleep deprivation, physical, emotional and sexual abuse were common. Those who were clearly 'illegal' and were looking at deportation within 6 months were generally left alone, but or those of us who were 'stuck', who had no home country to be deported to and little hope of getting out due to missing paperwork, maltreatment was common.
The facility was comprised of five large tents on concrete pads in the middle of TX. Each tent was separated into four sections called pods, each pod housing 50-60 people. We were separated by gender, age and marital status (I was in the 'single female 18-25 pod'.)
There were no partitions separating the five toilets in each pod from the sleeping areas, or from the door-the guards could (and did) watch you go to the bathroom if they wanted to. detainees were responsible for cleaning the toilets in their pods, but cleaning chemicals were not provided, nor plungers or brushes--anything that could potentially harm a guard was off-limits. Dishsoap was the strongest chemical available to clean with, and if a toilet got blocked, you unblocked it with your hands or went without. If you decided not to take care of it, the entire pod could be placed on lockdown (no yard privileges, no library time, etc.) Your right to work around the camp could also be curtailed, preventing you from sending letters or making calls, or you could be sent to solitary confinement.
Food was served on several occasions with maggots in it--we were told there was no money in the budget to make an extra meal so we went without until the next meal. Lights were always left on, so it was hard to sleep. at any time guards would conduct a random strip search and body cavity search on any detainee for any reason, and we didn't have the right to ask that a guard of the same gender perform these searches. Whenever the 18-25 female pod was searched there were never female guards around; male guards were lined up. If one of them stuck his fingers in you and thought he felt something, he could get another guard over to stick his fingers in you. If they still weren't satisfied we would be taken to the infirmary to have a doctor check our body cavities for contraband.
For those being deported, their countries could file suits over mistreatment of their citizens later so they were largely left alone. For those of us who were stuck, however--well, a couple of the guards developed a game where they would pick one of us at random, tell us to strip, kneel, put their guns to our heads and pull the trigger while telling us that we were a waste of air and space. The gun was empty, of course, and we learned to expect that, but there was always the fear that one day it would not be empty, that someone would make a mistake and miss a round in the chamber...
People died all the time in detention. The reason usually given for cause of death was 'unresponsive', and the deaths would go unremarked and largely unreported. One woman who was in the camp with me, Severine--she was trafficked in at 12 years old, kept as a sex slave for five years then thrown out wen she got pregnant. Since there as no police report of the incident, according to the laws at the time she could not file for asylum as a trafficking victim, so the baby she gave birth to at the camp was taken away from her and she was told she would be deported. She went into severe depression, wouldn't eat or come out into the yard with us, they said she was displaying passive-aggressive resistance tactics and sent her to solitary where she then killed herself.
I was 18, and had spent my entire life in private schools, the petted, spoiled, indulged only daughter of a devout Irish Catholic Vietnam and Korean war vet and his wife (Mom was a war bride Dad brought home from Korea and married. My life revolved around my books, my drawing, and my dream was to go to art school and become an FBI sketch artist. I spent the three years in detention writing letters to every courthouse in every state we'd ever lived in trying to find that paper, and when i found it they granted me naturalization (after I took the Test and the Oath) and let me go with the caveat hat if my name ever came up in front of them again for any reason, they could revoke my citizenship and send me back to detention this time permanently.
You're welcome to believe me or not--that is your prerogative. However, if you're curious, look for the Willacy detention center in Raymondville, TX.
I pray that all those involved meet their demise before God
Yeah, that's not wishful thinking or anything.
I just love the way Dawg Pound and imwhitewolf had their comments collapsed for appealing to people to use reason before judgement.
Obviously the only correct response around here to a story like this is, "Townsfolk! Grab your pitchforks and torches, we must kill the monster!
You need not have read the book: a link to the PDF report on the investigation's findings is included in the article.
You're correct that there isn't a statute of limitations on murder cases, but as the students who had been abused were the ones suing they were not dead/had not died and therefore the statute of limitation had expired.
Now,when authorities begin exhuming bodies and a forensic anthropologist determines cause of death to have been homicide (ever seen the TV show 'Bones'?) then statute of limitations does not apply and justice can be sought for the dead children.
Dan 42day:
Here is dawg Pound's quote;
In this case his assertion is erroneous as a link to the official government investigation that proved maltreatment and abuse was included in the article. Please go have a read. The alleged instances of abuse have already been proved, as evidenced by that report, which is partly why the school was shut down.
Very common for until the last couple of decades of the 20th cent for institutional inmates to be buried in unmarked graves or, if marked, only with numbers. Asylums and sanatoria, not just corrections. I'm sure, though, that for boys of color in the south, the dehumanization would have been even worse than for other people.
Re: statute of limitations. Some people seem confused. There is a difference between limitations for civil actions as compared to criminal actions. (And there is a higher standard of proof for criminal prosecution, meaning that although time may not have run out, probable cause for indictment may be impossible).
Very sad but not at all surprising, given the times and circumstances. You had to be very strong and smart to survive. Hats off to those boys who did. We need to hear their stories. I bet some of these boys were used to dig those graves.
Amanda... I've seen your posts before and tend to believe your stories. I heard long ago that a country is judged by the quality of it's prisons. Unless you have loved ones doing time in our state and federal prison system, what goes on inside them is largely ignored by the population as a whole. Then you also have a whole bunch of people with a very unchristian mentality that would like harsher treatment for those whose behavior or misfortune landed them there. It is hard for the uninvolved to pay any attention to what goes on in these places and I am unaware of any watch-dog agency with enough clout that can insure proper treatment of inmates. The prize for the bottom line of course goes to Germany and their concentration camp system during WWII that was set up to detain and dispose of the undesirables in the countries they overran. While a large part of the carnage that took place within that system was intentional, I tend to think that at least half was due to neglect. Bad policy exacerbated by criminal intent. If you don't think it can't happen here, think again. I was born in 1943 in a Midwestern German community and whenever I think of my ancestry I stumble into the atrocities perpetrated in one of the most advanced countries the world had ever seen at that point in history.
wje:
Thank you. Although it doesn't really matter much to me if someone out there believes my particular story or not, just putting it out there can get people thinking--and hopefully once logic takes over, things can start to be more fair for everyone, whether illegal or undocumented as I was. I try to use my story to drive home the point (so often missed) that 'undocumented' and 'illegal' are two different thing, and that not everyone Homeland Security detains actually is illegal.
And the other part of the immigration problem arises when you look at the bottom line: money. There are too many people making too much money off various aspects of the 'illegal' problem for the government to make any real headway on correcting the issue. When Homeland Security gets $141 per person per night for each person detained, and the private deportation camp gets between $40 and $98 per person out of that $141 Homeland Security gets, and Homeland Security gets to keep the remainder, it's not too hard to figure out that there are those who want to keep this gravy train going; from the privatized corrections industry here in the US from which the most egregious human and civil rights violations come, to the Homeland Security complex whose budget has gone from $49 million to $98 billion in the decade since they were founded...no, its really not hard to see why their interest is in keeping the status quo than finding real, lasting solutions to the problem.
The same thing can be said of the barbarian "Drug War".
Always, follow the money.
To all of you and your "rush to judgment" comments; I spent some time there and you have no clue..
I have but 2 words for you all; SCREW YOU.
You are the type of morons to blame a rape victim because of how they were dressed I bet.
I'm not sure why all this horrific stuff is such a surprise to everyone. Even today the organization with the single largest number of allegations of physical and sexual abuse against minors is the Juvenile Justice System. However, Americans just label these kids as "criminals" and then ignore it. Sounds like we have inherited that mentality from a long time ago. The US is currently the juvenile incarceration capital of the world (e.g. ) so I am not in the least surprised that these horror stories exist. The problem you really need to be thinking about is where it is still happening.
Hmm. This story reminds me of the movie "Sleepers" with Brad Pitt, Dustin Hoffman, and Kevin Bacon.
The next time I hear or read some idiot say the U.S. "was innocent" before the 60s, I'll refer them to this. Innocence my ass.
Florida...figures!
Welcome to the Confederacy!!!
Was going to say the same thing. One mess after the other!
I was going to say... seems like Florida is in the news for all of the wrong reasons lately.
Confederacy? Really? More like Mexico's and Cuba's new peninsula.
This, Florida, is what it meant to be "sold down the river." The further south you went, the more of a nightmare for black people.
Of course you know Mike277, Florida's poplulation is all from the north. I don't know where you live, but I'll bet a lot of your relatives live there.
The most of Florida's population is either retired northerners that live here year round, or snowbirds- the ones that just grace use with their presence six months of the year and tell us how we are wrong and how to do things the right or northern way.
This article does say that some of the boys died in the fire and influenza outbreak, this does NOT account for 31 graves and over 50 bodies. The school has been investigated for Rape, Murder, Physical and Mental abuse, and forced labor, as stated in the quote below.
"The state attributed its decision to close the school to budgetary reasons. Yet long before then, the institution had been the target of investigations and lawsuits alleging not only physical and mental abuse but also forced labor, rape and even murder of the young charges sent to its care since it opened in 1900."
so how do you say DAWG POUND that this was never confirmed by any boys who attended the school?
hey in defense of Florida, we need to remember the children that died as a result of brutality and forced to eat dirt in Arizona, and choked to death, while adults watched and continued the torture...and then they took him(specific case) to a hotel to cover it up. These things happen under certain government watches..but its not just Florida..we need to look at our own states too
and they are fat an retired in the same place ...getting a fat pension degrading porn... lol
Damn right. If it was the Confederacy you wouldn't have illegal mexicans and cubans taking over.
Most of the population here in Florida is imported from other states. Things were sane here before Disney. These days we're full up on crazy.
Road lless travelled you are very correct. A boy was beaten to death in the boxing ring at the Elan School. The boys name was Phil Williams. He was a ward of the State of Maine. The state of Maine benefitted from the tax revenues generated by this brutal, violent, sadistic hell hole.
The Elan School was closed down in April of 2011. It was closed because of the surviovrs it created started posting the truth about this hell hole and it could not stand the scrutiny that the light this truth was generating. The Elan School was able to control the floor show when ever there was a state inspection. The people that ran the Elan School knew what they were doing was criminal. Yet the money they were making was like a golden fountain spurting to the heavens. Joe Ricci and his buddies that helped him run it did everything to keep their hell-hole from being exposed for what it was, a child abuse mill run by serial child abusers.
Joe Ricci bought a racetrack in 1979 with the money that the Elan School was generating. He did not invest in his continueing criminal enterprise by having clinically trained conselors, (trained to work with at risk and chronically abused children,)work with the children that he was warehousing for the many states that sent him their wards. Instead bought a racetrack, Scarbrough Downs , it is well documented .
Many children that were sent to the Elan School were the wards from many states. Many states were defrauded of money by the criminal abuse that was given as therapy. There needs to be a federal investigation into Dozier reform school as well as the Elan School.
Elan is but one , and it is closed .There are many other abusive programs that exist to this day that can trace their roots to Synanon, one of the most abusive cults this country has ever seen.
The "troubled teen industry" is troubled indeed. The abuse that children endure in some of these well documented "abusive programs" that continue to exists is simply sick. These well documented places need to be investigated and shut down and the people that run these places need to go to prison.
they are in many states.
It is a fact that these places exist solely to make the owners wealthy, it has nothing to do with saving children. Shame on the State of Maine for allowing the Elan School to abuse as many children as it has. Many did not survive and are dead from suicide. Some roam the earth as emotional cripples due to the sadistic ,systemic abuse provide by the Elan School and the sick untrained people that ran it.
Putting children in re-education programs based on Korean brainwashing techniques is the American horror story. It is the truth and it is well documented , these programs need to be investigated by the proper authorities like the Federal Justice Department, just like the Penn State investigation.
Shame on Maine State Senator Bill Diamond for knowing and allowing the Elan School to exist as long as it did. All for the massive tax revenues that the Elan School generated . Bill Diamond was a liasion (lobbiest) between the Elan School and the Maine legistlature before he became a Maine state Senator. Senator Bill Diamond sat on a transpotation committe and a justice committe, imagine that . Bill Diamond knew. Shame on you Bill Diamond.
One way or another this story has got to end. Abusing children and making money on this abuse has got to be criminal. One way or another this story has got to end.
Your ignorant stereo type shows your lack of knowledge.
http://www.chicagoparent.com/magazines/chicago-parent/2008-march/the-most-dysfunctional--dangerous
This is just one of the worst juvenile centers and it is in Chicago, funny I did not know Chicago was a southern city.
When did it move?
Should I continue posting about Baltimore? NYC? NJ? Detroit? There are dozens listed and 90% are in northern states.
Do you really want to stick to that idiotic post?
Who cares about the white boys? The African-American boys are the real tragedy here. More of them were murdered and abused than the white kids. Typical.
Like Cool Hand Luke, or the classic pot bellied Sheriff with the mirror sunglasses, Heat of the Night, The Flim Flam Man, and many cheap ol Sci-Fi movies featuring a southern backwoods area covered in depraved behavior protected by the lawful authorities. Such is the panhandle of Florida. Funny how the men who were kids in that place remember boys disappearing, but none of the staff have any recall of the slightest thing being out of place. No stories of "I heard....." or " I remember so and so sayng......". Just nothing. This is because they had to make a choice. They could bust their fanny in the fields in 95 degree heat in 98% humidity for little pay or they could take a gubmint job and do whatever their depraved boss ordered and live in a decent house in town. Not unlike a trustee in a concentration camp who got an extra scoop of oatmeal for throwing other people in the furnace. Jobs like that make you wish you could forget.
There was the juvie judge in PA who went to prison after taking $millions in kickbacks for sending kids to private kid prisons for minor offenses
was my post to truthful for you filty animals its simple you hit me i hit you back so keep yours to yourself so that i won`t have to dig anymore holes paparatzz rats
Arther G. Dozier School for Boys was a rough place when I was sent there from the Florida Juvenile justice system in 1973 just for riding around in other peoples vehicles with out permission or a license although they called it grand theft auto, lmfao 6 counts,a lot of strange things went on there, lived in Reality Cottage, and Chipola cottage spent 10 months there because I kept doing um how do I say this, I want tell anyone all of that, just stupid @!$%#, I was at the river when the kid drowned in 1973 and they told us he tried to escape in a Canoe down the river, they said he fell out in to a bed of moccasins, I actually missed that place as far as the control goes and having a schedule running my life, Had a lot of good friends their too, I joined the Army a few years later, I needed some direction in my life and they gave it to me, before the Army I was headed to prison or getting shot for home invasion or Breaking & Entering into someones home.
Abuse of children is America's greatest shame. RIP younglings, you are now where no one can hurt you any more.
We abuse the defenseless - young and old - in our society. We are a shame and will some day have to answer to God.
c
I agree, we as Americans are the worst people for taking care of our loved ones; our babies and our parents ! It is a shame and I ask God that I never becomed so jaded by this world that I forget what really makes me happy and who really loves me !!
I know that God took care of those Boys their last few days on this earth no matter how evil the devil tried to make them. God always wins this I know !! So God have mercy on who all was involved in this; your judgement day is coming.
Jennifer
And more recently (2011), over 300 sex abuse cases involving underage girls when uninvestigated in Maricopa County, Arizona because sheriff Joe Arpaio thought busting hispanic janitors at the Mesa Library had a higher priority.
gumps, good point.
andrew Thomas, the county attorney, has been removed because he and Joe would only try cases that they thought were "appealing" to the public. These two men are responsible for so many unjust acts. Its not even underston why on earth JOE the Humilitarian, got reelected. I dont understand how, when the latino vote won the presidency, that in the very state we have millions, joe, get reelected. Does not make sense...
God is the lie that contributes to numbing down these ongoing attrocities. Clearly, if there was a "loving" all seeing, all knowing, all powerful god almighty this world would be that idealistic heaven/nirvana /utopia that blind faith keeps harping on about. Moreover, there would be no need for a"reform" school.
"Buttons51 - We abuse the defenseless - young and old - in our society. We are a shame and will some day have to answer to God."
I hope you realize that most of the abuses are done by "god fearing" people and the clergy and they all do it "in the name of god"!
Gumps and Road... Watch so the county attorney don't end up being governor.. That's what happened here I Pa. with the Sandusky thing.. Attorney general at the time didn't do nothing and now guess what
You mean if God was the way YOU thought he should be this would not have happened. Most of us who believe in God don't believe in a God that would be so tyrannical as to force everyone to obey him so that the world would remain a "utopia " despite us all contributing to make it something else by our own free choice (unless you happen to be perfectly loving all the time, which I'm not). People seem to want God to make everyone ELSE be perfect and loving but for God to leave THEM alone to do their own thing. You see, God could have forced the people running that school to be perfectly loving, but then to be fair he would have to force YOU to do everything he wanted you to do as well-and something tells me you wouldn't like for God to force you to do anything.
Sigh. its not a matter of a God,forcing the will of humanity.
The point is a religion that has had more than 2000 years,to change humanity for the better.And has utterly dropped the ball.
Christianity is a timeline of the abuse of power.Inquisitions,sexual perversion,even bringing disease to primitive cultures who never asked to be saved.There is plenty more.
We really do not want to use a religion that has shown its true colors,full of lies ,hypocrisy,murder,sexual perversion,and a nation full of some of the blindest most apathetic humans alive.
I dont need a god to tell me we have been fooled for way too long.
There is no excuse for abuse. However, the problem originated with careless, lazy parents who had kids they didn't want or know what to do with. When that happens, a cold, callous bureaucracy steps in, rarely to the benefit of the child. At no point in history have all children been wanted, plain and simple. Nor have all parents been competent to breed or raise small humans - especially male youth who will become trouble if not shepherded till they're 25. Boys with parents of means used to be sent to military schools to be straightened out, but that is now politically incorrect. Likewise, not all small humans are angels sent from God. Prior to the theocratic 1980s/1990s/2000s, Americans were a part of the larger world that always understood babies are the result of sex that is often unwanted by the female and, usually, poor-to-nonexistent family planning. Orphans and those on the lower tiers with no parenting skills are why their are excess humans around the planet, reform schools, prisons, misery. Everyone else figured out how to use a condom.
Kaladarr, it's probably been too long for you to read this message; but I'm going to answer your post. What you are referring to that has happened in Christianity has been very real and I do not deny it-I don't deny the abuse of power, the atrocities, the moral failures, or the dropping of the ball, as it were. However, what you are referring to is not God himself but those who claim to be his followers and who in many cases were his followers who were human and very imperfect. The teachings of Christianity never said that human beings were going to change the world in their humanness and frailty. While you may point to all of this and say that even God has not worked good through believers, you would be ignoring quite a bit of history including most of the early schools that were founded in this country (and many of the best schools, which were originally religious schools-like Harvard, Vanderbilt, etc.); many hospitals that have been built all over the world and are still being built by religious organizations (St. Mary's Hospital, Baptist Hospital, Methodist Hospital, St. Jude's Children's Hospital, shall I go on?); many scientists who were believers who contributed greatly to science like Robert Boyle, Max Planck, and Gregor Mendel; and Gutenberg, who introduced the movable type printing press to Europe (I realize there is a debate about who invented the technology, but Gutenberg is the one who introduced the technology.)
A lot of the things that were named above were actually done specifically because of the person's or the group's belief in Christianity like the printing press for the Bible and even some of the great scientists studying God's creation (some wrote about it) as well as Christians building schools to educate students for their betterment and hospitals to help the sick as Christians are told to do. That does not mean that non believers have not also done similar deeds which have greatly helped humanity. I am just answering your statement that Chrisitanity has not done anything at all to better humanity because I think a lot of these great deeds were in the past and it seems that a lot of people have short memories and have written revised histories. However, I would agree with many today that, unfortunately, modern Christianity in America has largely dropped the ball and is not doing a lot that is visible that is helping humanity. (To be fair, there are things like food kitchens, community outreaches with things like doing landscaping/painting/cleaning/etc., homeless ministries, ministries to help people who are released from prison to get jobs, support groups, psychological counseling, nursing home outreaches with music and programs, outreaches to foster kids including participating in the Angel Tree project, outreaches to military families and soldiers with such things as care packages, free medical clinics, and others that are run or supported by Christians that get absolutely no press at all.) It seems that what is mostly seen now are political protests and judgments against particular groups-and, for what it's worth, I think that shows that we, as Christians, have generally lost our focus as told to us by Jesus.
Therefore, I would say to you, that the abuses, atrocities, etc. are not the "true colors" of Christianity at all. You must look at the teachings of Jesus to find the true colors of Christianity. Just because his followers have not been able to follow his teachings does not mean that the teachings themselves are wrong. Our very teaching says that because we are incapable of being perfect we need a savior. This means that God punishes Jesus instead of us because we will never live up to his standards. That is not a license to keep sinning, as some seem to think, but simply a statement of our status. Once we have accepted that we need a savior and have become willing to receive that, we actually receive power not to sin, assuming we have the will not to-and there's the rub. Because we are still human after salvation we have two natures inside: the power not to sin vs. the human nature. We still have to DO life.
You have chosen to focus only on the very real abuses and atrocities commited by Christians and have completely and deliberately ignored any time any Christians have ever followed the teachings of Jesus-and surely you know there have been incidents where they have followed Jesus' teachings. Surely you know that there have been Christians who helped the poor, were the main force in the abolition of slavery (like William Wilberforce and even Harriet Tubman, who was VERY religious), and worked to improve the plight of children in the eighteen hundreds and early nineteen hundreds. If not, you need to study history a little better-and not just revisionist history.
Our proud history of tolerance marches on!!
it does march on..., and we make strides all of the time; as much as you despise America, we have done better at addressing inequities than any country and culture on the face of the earth. Our citizens have died to protect our rights, tolerance and freedom for all.
Sure we have.....as any Native American can tell you.
"...we have done better at addressing inequities than any country and culture on the face of the earth..." -- Judging from rhetoric displayed during the last presidential campaign, I doubt if too many people agree with you. And just look at how much vile is being tossed towards, of all people, our president, for attending a Xmas celebration event in which an Asian performer participated.
Exactly, William of Rites. And this is recent history. And a disgusting piece of recent history at that.
Glad to see this article up on the vine. We all need to be aware. Especially given the climate we are currently seeing in our society.
Wake, You don't have to despise America to be frustrated by the way many public figures talk about the poor, the old, and people of color. We have made strides, but we honor our military that go overseas to fight for rights and freedom and arrest people in the US who are trying to address problems here. There is a lot of vile rehetoric directed toward the President, people of color, women, the poor, non-christians, the elderly, gays. While some Americans are trying to transform our country into one that is truly exceptional for its civil rights and strong economy, others are trying to undermine any progress in modernity. Ya, in the old days, beating kids was common. Today, we know that abusing children creates often creates abusers.
has anyone been held accountable and prosecuted for killing those kids?
What I am most surprised about this is that people are surprised that this happened. This camp was located in the Deep South and the deaths occurred during some of the least tolerate times in our recent history. I wouldn't be suprised if many, many more bodies and graves are found.
Arch: This was not a "camp" as we think of such things depicted in movies like "Cool Hand Luke" (also set in Florida, by the way). This was a State Reform School. This was a "correctional" institution-a prison for boys, if you will. A friend of mine who lives there once remarked that the only difference between the inmates and the guards in the Florida correctional system at the time of "Cool Hand Luke" was that one bunch had guns.
I agree with you, though, that the USF Team probably isn't anywhere near finished finding unmarked graves. Ialso agree with some folks who have posted various comments suggesting that the people who carried out these abuses will, one day, if not already, have to answer to a Higher Power.
Wolf
There was a book written about this place. It was written by one of the kids that was there. It describes the atrocities that were done to the boys durring the 50s. What he described was a crime even in the 50s. I wonder how many of these boys did not even have a coffin and will never be found. If one person is telling stories about numerous acts of violence would you not wonder how many there actually were ? Since these places often did thier own hiring I can pretty much gaureentee that they hand picked every pervert that walked in the door. I bet every good ole boy knew that next person to be hired. If there is a hell you know these evil men are and will be there
Wake, Why do you believe that the U.S has made better strides in a positive direction than any other country or culture on earth? I have homes around the world, live day-to-day in different cultures, and as a result of my direct observations, do not believe that you are right. Your observation was probably true 40 years ago, but as our crooked politicians in Washington (of both parties, and of all dogmatic stripes) have fundamentally changed our country and culture for the worse, I'm afraid you are simply living in a past reality. When we believe that we are the best, without really being so, we compromise our ability to improve.
I just connected with this article. A couple of things stand out for me. The guy(I assume) "wolf" needs to get either laid or a life. Which ever will take the edge off of his hate.
I remember years ago, going to a State School for the Mentally Retarded. That was term being used back then. I was in jr high and our psych teacher thought it would be "cool" from an observation point of view. I was horrified at what I saw. I will never forget it. This story brought all those memories back.
I think it is terrible how this country compartmentalizes those that are not perfect. What pisses me off more, where where the families of these boys? Did they just dismiss them, because they could. Was this an easy way out? Ditto to singltermlimits, this is a national outrage. Then or now, someone has to be held accountable. Are all of the people in charge back then dead? Doubt it, I was married for 40+ yrs and the ass is still golfing!
This more of our National Shame! I could just cry!
The horrors those poor boys went through. I cannot figure out why the victims were not allowed to sue due to the statute of limitations and yet when the find nazi war criminals, legal action is still pursued. This was just another concentration camp run by sadists. Also the confidentiality laws should be overturned in cases where there is such horrific abuse.
Considering what was going on AND it was a state institution, I think the length of time should be waived in this case. Anyone involved who is still around, and the state of Florida should have their asses sued off and those around who were involved in the abuse sent to prison. In fact, any cases, anywhere, that involve abuse, torture or murder of young people should be prosecuted no matter how much time has passed. It's just a 'get out of jail' card for the state and the perpretrators, not justice for the children.
Well said Diane. The first thing I thought when I read that the statute of limitations had run was that the statute should be set aside in cases like this. These young men won't get any justice and the perps will get off scott free. Such a tragedy.
RIP, young ones. May the survivors find peace somehow.
You can't just waive laws when they become inconvenient. If the law is unjust, then it needs to be changed. Until then, it must be followed or it becomes discriminatory in its own right if applied unequally.
There is no statute of limitations on murder, but abuse does. Unfortunately, you cannot repeal those retroactively. I do think there shouldn't be a statute of limitations on Child Abuse of any kind. You shouldn't be able to get out of punishment because your victim was too scared to talk for 20 years.
Statutes of Limitation cost victims their rights more often than we, the general public, realize. Case in point, many states often allow more time to prosecute someone who stole your television than they do rape or incest. People should lobby their government officials, if they are unhappy with the current laws. Unfortunately, SpyderGirl is right. That still won't help past victims.
And that includes slavery! There is no justice for all of the murders, torture, and rape of those helpless, defenseless people.
I agree! Well said. The statute of limitations should be abolished! People who abuse and murder should be in fear of getting sentenced their entire life! Time does not heal all wounds - time cannot heal murder. They should be sentenced for their crimes. Justice is more important. Justice must prevail!
Previous investigations and records had reported that 31 boys were buried on school grounds, and that most of them died in a fire and an influenza outbreak at the school in the early 1900s-------------
Me thinks you should read the entire article. The unfluenza outbreak of 1918/1919 killed thousands of people. That's not murder. In the late 70s/early 80 I was stationed at Ft Rucker, AL and worked at an airfield near Elba, AL. When things were slow we'd drive around looking at old family graveyards. It was unreal how many people died during those two years.
I enjoy seeing the rants on here but you all seem to miss one important thing. American society during that time permitted and approved of the measure YOU are now screaming against, just as in a 100 years from now YOUR actions will be viewed differently than YOU now view them. Is that right or wrong? I don't know. I do like to think we are more enlightened today but................
Well said, certain crimes should not limitations.
So, a person who just moved to Florida should have their taxes increased (due to a lawsuit) to make you feel better. These vile crimes were commited by very sick people who are probably dead. I would be all for punishing the criminals who perpatrated these horrendous act of torture against children, but these acts of terror were not condoned or sanctioned by the citizens of Florida. Quite the opposite; these acts were done in secret by evil people who probably wanted to be at that institution and wanted to do what they did. If you think that being a Florida resident makes you complicit in such acts of horror, then you are a prejudiced, bigot and not the compasionate humanitarian you think you are.
describe, yes they should. They are responsible for the acts committed by the people who they elected. And many could have done something but did not, OVER 111 years. The people could have stopped this but they didnt...so yes, the state and the people need to pay for it. And its your fault for moving to a place that has so much "damage" that the people have to pay for it...not a state i would move to anytime soon.
Describe, as a native of Florida whose roots go back nearly 400 years I'll gladly pay more in taxes for reparations to the families of these boys. Righting wrongs is an important part of the process of living in a society. Besides, it would only cost about $1/year for each taxpayer in the state.
People think things like this are so expensive when in reality they are not. For example, social programs like welfare (TANF) cost us all about $30./year. We all spend that much taking out our family for lunch at the fast food restaurant. A single tank of gas for my car costs more than that. Cutting that program won't make a bit of difference to me at the end of the year, but it will make a difference to American families: they'll go hungry and without the necessities of life.
Roadlesstraveled: African Americans couldn't vote in many Florida counties 111 years ago. There were poll taxes and grandfather clauses preventing them from registering, there were even literacy tests. Women had no vote. There's enough blame to go around without you looking for victims in 'the people.' Wrong was done, it's true.
As a US citizen and a resident of the State of Florida, I say let's separate the guilty from the innocent and prosecute them to the fullest extent of the law! A jury of their peers will decide who should pay for these heinous acts. I don't care how old they are, wrong is wrong!
Thank you , Peridot, for a dose of decency.
We can be thankful that there is no statute of limitations for murder in Florida.
The problem is the state ran the facility, who do you prosecute?
Everyone and anyone you can find that worked there and are still alive. No way this type of abuse was not known to all that worked there!
You can sue a state in civil court.
There is no statute of limitations on the crime of murder in any state in the US. How can you not know this? Don't you watch television? It's one of those Federal laws the states all have.
It's easy to look up these facts. Google is your friend.
Those who tortured Jews in Concentration camps in Nazi Germany worked for the state. They are still criminals.
THat is long ago settled law.
Shawn, the parents who abandoned or put them there are first on the list.
More yellow dog journalism. That school has been around for 111 years before any of this was reported. The so called White House Boys are trying to get a payday because they have always been losers. The so called researchers are being paid and want more money to contiue their so called research. You can't judge what went on there a hundred years ago by todays standards. Even in the Florida Prison system corporal punishment and lease labor were legal until poor oversight and abuse ended it. Florida State Prison has it's own grave yard also, if the graves are marked it is just with a prison number. This is a non story by a group that wants their 15 minutes at tax payers expense.
Places like this: orphanages, reform schools, homes for "wayward" girls, etc. were just magnets for sadists, pedophiles and child-haters who got their jollies abusing and raping children. Of course, in those days, if you were white, well-dressed and churchgoing, no one would ever believe you were a sadistic abuser.
They still don't....case in point, Jerry Sandusky.
my friend and her husband were locked up in Samolia when they were teens...its awful. They married, i think, because of the story they shared, and had no one else who could relate to them. My friend ended up with a seizure disorder from being abused so much. This was only 10-15yrs ago..American parents, wealthy, send their kids to other countries to be disciplined a lot more often than we think
Not just other countries. Many of those teen lockup places exist right here in the U.S.
My grandmother only went to the 6th grade but had a pretty good job for a woman during The Great Depression. She was a cook in a mental hospital. Good times!
She use to both scare us and make us laugh with some of her stories.
Future generations will always look back on past ones with horror. We won't escape their indignation either.
Bluetea, no country at any point in history has figured out what to do with millions of mentally ill adults and unwanted children. If you've a grand solution to those two problems, please share if with the U.N. and every nation or NGO on the planet.
Unless, billions of people begin using birth control and enormously reduce the number of humans being born, it will only get worse as the planet swells from 7 billion to 9 in the next decade+. Most of the planet is now inhabited by people of childbearing age. This does not bode well for anyone, especially every non-human creature and those who value personal safety, clean air, drinkable water, decent shelter, normal weather patterns.
I would like for people to realize that the adults in charge where not the only ones to commit crimes against children at the Arthur G Dozier school, the kids from puberty up the the age of 21 committed crimes against other kids, rape and beat downs, thefts, you name it , I was there I know it happened.
Kathy ---------- Then why is he now in prison ???
Sounds like a place that the Ghost Hunters should visit.
RIP to those young boys.
And once again, no one, from the top down, will answer for the horrors.
It has been known for decades? Where was the intervention? People should answer for this travisty.
I imagine the top down are dead to since it started in the 1900s.
If you read the PDF it had been investigated and criticized numerous times over the years, so how did it continue?
They may be dead, but their names should be published. No one should be allowed to die reputation untarnished for this type of abuse!
People yearning for the "good o'l days" should realize they were always all that good.
Winslow Homer may never have painted some of the more terrible happenings from those days, but those things still happened.
Pardon me for bringing up politics, but whenever the Republicans long for the Good Old Days, this is what comes to my mind. shudder
No, thank you.
That school wasn't run by Catholic Priests, was it?
flylowguy, you're an @SSh0le. You should change your name to downlowguy. Since that's all you have on your mind.
hey flylowguy, why do you have to go there!
Catholic Priests and any administrators of the Floriduh boys reform school. Two types of peas in a cesspool of scum. They should also be joined by those executives and caseworkers at DCF, who have killed so many children in the last decade, thanks to their irresponsibility.
The former and retired administrators and staff of the Florida reform school are probably even now collecting pensions from the State of Florida. Of course, many are dead, but the ones who were there in the last, say, 30 years, should be calling up their attorneys by now and getting their stories straight. And families of boys who were sent there should be going through their attics and looking for letters that were sent from the school (although my bet is that any mail going out was censored).
Silly boys and girls... did you ever think the State would man-up and take responsibility?
When it comes to suing the government - you are almost always S O L.
I hope and trust there is a burning, screaming hell for the "caretakers" of this vile institution. There aren't enough invectives in the English language to hurl at them.
(And if they found 50 graves, you can bet hard coin money that's only the tip of the iceberg.)
Yay Florida!
Another book written about this is The Boys of the Dark: A Story of Betrayal and Redemption in the Deep South by Robin Gaby Fisher. It is a heartbreaking story and what went on at this place is just sick.
It is very much like what went on in Boston and Chicago. Sad no matter where it happens
what the article failed to say was that the African American boys were killed by white employees.
The article writer doesn't know that for sure. All of them by the way were probably killed by white people. White or black.
What difference does that make? Murder is murder is it not? And why do you call one African American and the other white? You should research the genealogy of those scum bags so you can indicate where their ancestors came from while referring to them instead of just calling them by their skin color. That's just lazy. I mean, I know it will be hard and take a lot of time but at least it will be fair and thorough. Or you could just call us all African Americans because human life started in Africa. That would be easier and still somewhat accurate.
Any excuse to play a race card, eh Nini?
@ Nini.....How could you possibly know that as a fact?
There probably were no black employees in positions of authority until 80s or 90s. This is Florida after all.
Nini, those of us with intellects were able to gather the meaning. Thanks for sharing. No doubt there are a few people who didn't get the subtext and were enlightened by your assistance.
Wyotech, Florida state jobs were uniformly held by white males until the Seventies when they were forcibly integrated. Women held secretarial jobs and African Americans were few and far between in the high paying jobs. They may have been scattered here and there in janitorial positions but in this type of situation the staff would have been all white. That's how it was then.
My people have been in Florida for hundreds of years. We remember.
Nini is undoubtly right. Not only were they white they probably knew each other, making any abuse easy to cover up. This is not the only place that this has happened. I hope after this that other states will look into other facilities and we can stop these kinds of acts. This continued to go until 2011. Aint it nice to know the good ole boy network is alive and well in the south.
oh by the way i am white.
Right, they "failed" to say that, but less dramatic and more realistic would be to say what they DID say. For instance: "locations were unspecified for nearly three times more African-American boys than for white boys" and " It's highly unlikely that white boys were buried with black boys during those decades, but as yet, the researchers haven't found a previously hidden whites-only cemetery". To me, that statement implies a lack of sentiment across the board as for the final resting place not being segregated. The MISSING information, to me, is the ratio black/white for the residents and then the ratio black/white for the EMPLOYEES. THE ABUSERS. That's what is left out. Regardless the less recent history, we really should be thinking of the survivors, I mean there must be survivors if they closed in 2011. Where did they go?
Nini, you are no doubt correct, and it is unfortunately likely that more African Americans died-certainly more died for "unknown" causes; but the fact is that skin color did not stop white boys from dying-if you read the pdf article you will see that. It's kind of like this, I think: some suffered more, but all suffered.
1900 to 2011. Sure took the state long enough to do something about this horror. How sick, I can't imagine what those families went through, thinking their kids were safe at this reform school and then being told they would never come home again. The guilt the families must have felt in choosing to send their kids here and knowing they weren't coming back must have been unbearable.
"Reform" school...troubled youth to get help...supposed to be anyway. Don't know that families "chose" to send their children there...children whose parents died, kicked the kids out with no where to go, kids get into trouble, ordered by the court, etc. Families ability to care for the children were part of the problem. Children were failed by the parents and the system.
Believe it or not,my mother sent my brother to a "reform" school in Louisiana in the 1950s.She had 5 boys and one girl at home to raise by herself after my father died.Seems my brother couldn't adhere to the basic rules of the house,which were many and most horrible.When he got out,he was never the same.I died a few years back! May God bless his tortured soul!
Kids were sent to reform school by their parents even in the 1960's. I remember as a kid, reading an article about it in The Reader's Digest (which was on the side of the children).
True.
I think a lot of kids could have ended up in institutions (not just FL) without having "bad" parents. Think of the position of mothers who had been left by men or widowed, if they were poor or especially not white. Think how easy it was to institutionalize a parent--epilepsy, "immoral conduct" were enough to get someone packed off to a state asylum at one time. Poverty. In the 1990's plenty of Republicans wanted to replace welfare with the orphanages of yesteryear. ElkMeadow--I remember those RD articles about juvenile courts and juvenile jails back in the 1960's (I was a kid too then). mas098--good example of how easy to get sent off to a "reform" school--probably not your bro's fault or your mom's, just a very tough life. I've met quite a few people in their 70's who spent time in institutions as kids just because the resources for their parents did not exist. One friend is 70, her mom died of cancer, her dad had her stay with aunt and uncle, worked around the country as an electrician and sent money and letters--then the relatives went to court to claim he had abandoned her and got his parental rights terminated.
Why do the "officials" always wait until the perps have lived out their lives and died of natural causes before they reveal this kind of criminal activity?
This sounds like the book by Jefferson Bass.. THE BONE YARD.
What's a grave > "shaft"?
A large buriel plot!
Disturbed ground the size of a body.
Back then in Florida it was the reform school killing Black boys, now it is the "stand your ground" law killing Black boys.
Don't forget blacks are killing blacks, read the news much(football players killing one another...girlfriends)?
You realize you are saying that a law allowing people to defend themselves against criminals would result in mostly blacks getting shot. If a white person said that they would be called a racisssssss.
Shawn-1486781: While that is true, one cannot ignore the institutionalized corruption that existed at this school and how it largely targeted Black boys; and its similarity to how racist Whites --also in Florida --have seemingly used the "stand your ground" law for an opportunity to kill Black boys without prosecution.
And whites are killing whites.
Uh, yeah. For walking home from the store and playing their music loudly.
Kind of a self defeating point you tried to make.
Thanks, DOCJT. You took the words right out of my mouth.
Couldn't let it go by, zari-m. :)
Only in the state of Florida. The state should be removed from the union and given to Cuba where this type of behavior is accepted and that does not make it right. Fox, Hannity where are you on this issue.
Probably waiting on facts so they don't make a fool out of themselves like so many on here have
Let me guess, J. Wolff. Republican?
Actually No
But anyone on here that is not a rabid liberal is accused of it
So sad. To think a lot of the parents probably were uneducated, poor and because of that were lied to about their sons' death. Those poor kids. Being in a room in 1918 and 1932 suffering through the "influenza" outbreak and no one cares about you because of your color. The thought that the Judges were behind this, the directors who ran the institution of hell during all those years and not until 2011 does it get shut down. I believe in punishing our youth who are bad and do horrible acts of violence, but to whip them, chain them, feed them slop with worms and stale meat is just outright mean, vindictive and there is a JUDGMENT DAY that those Judges, directors, sheriffs, Medical Examiners, Doctors, etc. who did this from opening to closing will have to answer to. To think this went on up until 2011 is just ridiculous. So, does this mean that politicians from lets just say 1976 (given the 200 year anniversary of America's freedom) until 2011 turned their backs on these henious crimes of evil torture taking place? We finally get the Dept. of Justice to step in. Where was Hoover during the period he was running the FBI - oh, my bag, wearing dresses and calling everyone a communist huh? My heart goes out to the families of those victims.
Being the type of person that I am I probably would have been locked up in a place like that for demanding answers to my child's death and wanting the body. To hell with the money to exhume the body, you buried my kid and did not notify me until after the fact is a lawsuit right there.
The school was closed in June 2011, "Yet long before then, the institution had been the target of investigations and lawsuits alleging not only physical and mental abuse but also forced labor, rape and even murder of the young charges sent to its care since it opened in 1900." If the atrocities perpetrated there were that well known, why did it take so long for the state to close the school?
I'm a tough old lady, but his article literally made me cry, which isn't easy! May those poor, battered children rest in peace.
Because these places are always supposedly "addressing the concerns" and because nobody else wants the responsibility of caring for the kids. Not hard to figure out.
Oh... does this mean they were all dumped in one hole or something?
shaft grave
noun, Archaeology .
a grave consisting of a deep, rectangular pit with vertical sides,roofed over with a stone slab.
Yes, it may have been common to bury the dead with no coffin, just 'wrapped in a blanket and dropped in a post hole'. My grandfather spoke of such burials when he was young in the early 1900's.
Yes, Nancy. They suspect that several boys were dumped into mass graves containing more than one body.
please start digging up the othe places like the prison system you will find the same reults there also!!!
they had a lot of evidence about these activities long ago, and we well know
if there is one arthur g. dozier facilities there's others just like it with as many
horrendous stories.....full details, names, etc. should be made public immediately.
frank p. barrasso