E-mail updates
Follow on Twitter
Subscribe to RSSWashington State's new law makes it legal for adults to possess up to an ounce of marijuana, but some speculate the federal government will prosecute those who use marijuana on federal land because federal law prohibits marijuana use. NBC's Kristen Dahlgren reports.
Washington and Colorado say you can legally smoke marijuana for fun now, but here's the catch: You can't legally buy it.
Voters in those states passed initiatives last month to legalize recreational use of marijuana. As of last Thursday, it's legal under Washington law for anyone 21 and over to possess up to 1 ounce of marijuana, 16 ounces of "solid marijuana-infused product" (in other words, a pound of pot brownies) or 72 ounces of "marijuana-infused liquid."
In Colorado, Gov. John Hickenlooper signed Amendment 64 to the state Constitution on Monday, legalizing not only recreational use but also home growing, unlike in Washington.
Entrepreneurs are already planning stores to get more buck for the bhang.
PhotoBlog: Pot smokers gather under Seattle's Space Needle to celebrate
"Part of the mission of our company is to transform marijuana from a back-alley drug being sold by criminals into a premium product being enjoyed by responsible adults," said Jamen Shively, chief executive of Diego Pellicer Inc., a new company that hopes to open a chain of stores in Washington and Colorado as soon as the legal issues are cleared up.
The company is named for Shively's great-grandfather, who grew hemp in the Philippines. It eventually became the biggest hemp supplier in the world around the turn of the 20th century. ("It's a family business," said Alan Valdes, a veteran securities trader who recently joined the company as chairman.)
"We're creating the category of premium marijuana," said Shively, who worked as a corporate strategy manager for Microsoft Corp. from 2003 to 2009 before leaving for a specialty food startup. "If you are producing or intending to produce premium-grade product that's in line with our ethos, we're interested in talking to you."
Americans to feds: Keep your hands off our pot
But Diego Pellicer and its customers may be in for a long wait.
The federal government still insists that marijuana is a Schedule I controlled substance and that buying and selling it for any purpose remains a federal crime. Federal authorities officially even frown on the pot that patients get at medical marijuana dispensaries, although their policy is to look the other way in those cases.
For recreational users, well, "you're a felon," said Mark A.R. Kleiman, editor of the Journal of Drug Policy Analysis. "Period. End of paragraph."
And so is your retailer.
"Regardless of any changes in state law ... growing, selling or possessing any amount of marijuana remains illegal under federal law," said Jenny Durkan, the U.S. attorney in Seattle. She said the Justice Department is reviewing its options in Washington and Colorado.
Buzzkill: Feds fire warning shot over pot legalization
Shively said that under no circumstances would his company violate federal law.
"Let's suppose tomorrow that Washington state issued licenses and said, 'Go ahead, guys, have at it.' We would say to the state of Washington respectfully, 'Thanks, but no thanks, because we haven't heard from the federal government.'"
Until then, Diego Pellicer is rounding up funding and private shareholders to be ready if and when the Justice Department changes course.
"I think it's going to be hard for the Obama administration to slap this down," Valdes said. "Washington is a liberal Democratic state that helped (President Barack Obama) get elected. The people voted for him — it would be a slap in the face."
Like Amsterdam: Washington bar owner lets patrons get stoned
Dan Satterberg, the prosecuting attorney in King County, Wash., which is home to a thriving marijuana scene in and around Seattle, thinks the Justice Department will try anyway.
The Washington and Colorado laws require state agencies to facilitate something the federal government considers an illegal act — the sale and distribution of marijuana. That raises an important states' rights question that only the courts can sort out, he said.
Satterberg told NBC station KING of Seattle that he expects the states and the Justice Department to wind up before the U.S. Supreme Court within the next couple of years to argue the issue.
KING: Clearing up the new marijuana law: What's legal?
Overlooked in the immediate reaction to passage of the initiatives, both pro and con, is an important public health question, said Kleiman, who is a professor of public policy at the University of California-Los Angeles and co-author of "Drugs and Drug Policy: What Everyone Needs to Know."
It's not the question you might expect — how much does legalization increase marijuana use? — but "how much does legalization increase abuse?" he told NBC News.
Assuming marijuana use follows the pattern of alcohol use, most of the marijuana consumed in the U.S. is used by the 20 percent minority of people who abuse it, he said. Most pot users use it now for light recreational purposes, but if it's legal, how big will that 20 percent grow?
"Nobody knows," he said.
Questions like that are why it might, in fact, be wise for the federal government to step back and let Washington and Colorado serve as laboratories, so policy makers can "find out what happens."
Watch US News videos on NBCNews.com
If it does, Shively and Valdes will be ready.
"We are building our entire business on the premise it will be sufficiently legal in the next few months or a year," Shively said — a business that will include merchandising beyond simple sales of premium pot.
"Be looking out for really beautiful vaporizing products," he said. "That will be really hot."
More content from NBCNews.com:
- More graves found at notorious Florida reform school for boys
- Fewer homeless vets expected; 'alarming' trend in young
- Storm pounds Upper Midwest with heavy snow, wind
- Cops: 2 University of Colorado students fed pot brownies to classmates, professor
- Video: Senator: MTV series ‘Buckwild’ is ‘a travesty’
Leave a Comment:
Daves not here.
So?
Open up man...it's me. Dave.
captn..if Dave has to be explained to you, you prob wouldn't get it lol.
Complicated? It's another product to put on a shelf. Label it, price it, sell it. If you need an example look at how a farmers market works. It's a plant for peets sake. The minority of Americans still suffering from reefer madness mentality need to either get over it or simply mind their own affairs.
Lots of us smoked at a younger age. Most of us gave it up when we entered mainstream life. Yet I still don't see the point of prohibition. The war on drugs wastes lives, time, taxpayer funds and is making murderous cartel leaders filthy rich.
While I don't envision myself smoking, I believe the issues against legalization need to be laid to rest. Decriminalize this plant. There are many good reasons to do so. Any one learn about the hemp industry we used to have in North America? Aside from smoking there are resources to be harnessed from mj and hemp big time.
I remember Dave. He and I were in the same classroom taught by Sr. Mary Elephant.
Class....CLASS.....
SHUTUP!!!
Dave's not here..........! I don't think the pot that we fondly remember at geting laid back and laughing our butts off is remotely the same. This is very funny but I do have some concern about how they'll grow and control the use by minors. It ain't gonna happen. I smoked dope in Nam and for 15 years after. Got off it becasause I had to be more responsible and raise my family. Oh I was a RR engineer and the RR I worked for said no dope. Recreational use amoung resonsible parties? Like I said . It ain' gonna happen! Have fun!
carl, the argument that today's pot is much stronger than in yesteryear and thus is a menace is foolish. Tequila is stronger than beer, and people solve that by drinking less of it in a sitting. Quite simple.
I live in Washington State and I smoked pot when I was a teenager. When I got married and our children were born, I stopped. I noticed a significant difference in the way I viewed the world around me once the THC left my body. I know, this won't be popular with the pro-pot crowd but daily use of this substance does impact the user's mind even when they aren't actively consuming it. Having said that, I don't know that the altered state of mind daily consumption imparts is necessarily bad. It is just different, less serious, and inspired me in many creative ways.
I didn't vote for the initiative here due to the fact that under the proposed law, it is still illegal to grow the plant. That is a stupid provision. This is a plant, it is easily grown and having one or two for personal use ought to be legal. Allowing people to legally consume, but forcing them to buy it at a cost of 360.00 per ounce will inspire those who don't have the money to buy it to continue to seek it at a discount from buyers outside the legal system. A price war between the State of Washington and drug cartels is certain to occur. This negates some of the pluses of making the drug legal since illegal buyers will still be arrested and prosecuted and so continue to clog our legal system and the drug cartels will continue to operate here.
If pot is going to be legal for consumption, then let consumers grow their own. That is the only way to disenfranchise the cartels since it eliminates the black market they depend on in it's entirety.
BTW, If you are wondering whether I would ever smoke pot again? I am retired so I have no employer to answer to. Occasionally partaking is something I would consider but only IF there were no chance of being prosecuted by the feds!
@sighber;
VGP.Here here.
Yes, why would I buy something I can grow myself, without having to have a green thumb? Those that wish to partake should be allowed to have a couple of plants for self use. I believe your occupation should still be a factor, as I would not want a stoned pilot,or surgeon.
Long term use of anything will have an effect on your body. Some peoples body can handle it, some others can not. Same as alcohol, some are addicted others can put it down until next time.
How can you argue with that? I know there will be pot opponents that say they don't want it legal, but look where we are at with it right now. Do you really prefer supporting drug cartels who pay NO taxes or are subject to regulatory control, not to mention the thousands who die annually due to the violence? Think about that while outside the box.
________________________________________________________________________________
Yes Hope,,,,,,,
,,,,,,you are right. I completely agree.
But you forgot to mention that the "war on drugs" also enriches : the legal system, judges, lawyers, law enforcement (paychecks, bonuses, seizures, etc.), politicians, lobbyists, prison facilities, prison service companies, parole services, ,,, on & on.
The phony "war on drugs" is one huge money maker.
The "Federal Reserve Note" rules and owns this nation and nothing in the form of justice and logic will ever change that.
.
Sad but true,,,,,,,, (so get used to it ) . All best regards .
.
The same way they control the use of tobacco and alcohol products.....
What, literally the same article posted back to back in MSNBC? Somebody needs to do their job better.
So, since this is really the same article as posted yesterday, I'll just copy/paste my same response:
Pot smokers seem to be proving themselves as dumb as the people who are obsessed with calling pot smokers, 'Junkies."
Legalize it, have 3 corporations take over every little small company that makes it, have those corporations make political contributions and make pot sh**ty. THEN lets hear about how awesome that it was legalized!
Oh, and tax the CRAP out of it! What's good for tobacco is good for pot!
Edited for only one thing: At least the people posting here today seem to be posting with more of a level head. The extremists were all on yesterday. I'm sure they'll show up soon. Where's Backcountry?
"A lot of you cats that think that marijuana shouldn't be legaized, well you're all f&#@d."
--- Ashley Roachclip, President of United Heads for Hemp
sighber; nobody in Washington State has bought Mexican weed since 1978.
The Mexican weed we got back in the day was full of bug parts, dog hairs, and who knows what else - the weed may be stronger today, but I'll bet it's a lot safer than some chemically sprayed crap we used to get.
PS; don't smoke the Dane.
Derek; you have no clue on what pot smokers demand - do you drink crap beer when good beer is available? Just like any other product - consumer demands are what feed the market. By your reasoning, only 3 beer companies should presently exist...FAIL!
to commenter about old pot vs newer stuff.agree with you and get it.not sure how but maybe if they can measure it liking days of 3.2 that way be a above board standard of sorts? not an expert period.also,lighterside,all comments about daves not here right now.... might be true but wait till next summer and its 'on the first day of my vacation...' guess that ways followup/afterthefact when dave left.
JP, are you Backcountry in disguise!? ROTFLMAO! Your example proved my point. And look, you thought you won the arguement.
I had this discussion already. You lose.
Where will this abundant natural plant come from? Hmm....well lets first ask these questions? Where do tomatoes come from? Where does basil come from? Where does daffodils and tulips come from?
They ALL come from the same place.
As for where to buy it? Currently there are two places we can get it from. 1. is the drug dealer, which puts people in harms way. 2 is going directly to the source...the CIA. But then that would also put you in harms way. Since the CIA supplies..or allows the "big" guys to get it to distribute to the little guys, I guess just getting it from the local salesman would have to continue?
Really if you want to play it safe....just grow it. Dont grow so much that it changes your electrical bill...or install a solar power specifically to counter it. Unfortuntately we have to do things because of stupid laws. So growing a plant is considered illegal.....how stupid are our "elected" leaders? We have the most stupid, corrupt set of morons making laws for us...and we just keep voting them in?!?!?!
give it away for free, but put a fee on it like everyone else does..like baggage fee, or building maint. fee...im sure we can think of something cleaver that will pass all legal red tape....
States OK pot smoking; but how do you buy it?
Same as always, at the local middle school or high school parking lot.
Sheesh!
Derek; you made my day saying I was Backcountry- I stopped fighting him long ago. Just what was your point? You sent two different messages - hard to win an argument with someone who contradicts them selves. If you are pro pot - then make it clear - otherwise, get off the @!$%#ter.
pot doesn't work that way, the grade of pot you have will only get you so high. No matter how much you smoke at a time.
if it ain't good, you can smoke all you want and you ain't getting very high. Yet you smoke some real good bud, you don't have a choice. You're fix'n to get really highiiiiiiiiiii.
@JP: Here's a hint: Alcohol is not the industry to pick. If you could use the brain, you would stop using beer as the counterarguement, like the cult of non-thinking pot users does. Because beer is dominated by the few, large corporations that people lie they never drink beer from.
At least use wine for crying out loud. I could make your arguement better than you can. That, my friend, is usually the case with moderates. Since we bother spending time understanding both sides of the arguement than one.
But you would also realize, if you are thinking, that what I said is bound to happen because for all the pot growing you say you can grow at home, or from your friend, the micro-farmer, in the end, it will go the same way as tobacco, be regulated by tobacco, and because even if it isn't smoked (and yeah, tobacco doesn't need to be either, by the way), its a plant and its smokable.
Then I'll hear every elitest pot smoker telling me how they are all against big government, and big corporations, while they huff down on their micro-farmed labeled pot...that was grown in China...and that was middleman handled through Phillip Morris. And that you paid tobacco tax on.
I don't give a rat's a**. I WANT pot to be legalized. I'm just not ridiculous enough about it to believe the extremists cult members of pot, nor will I listen to the nonsense from the extremist naysayers about it.
....For recreational users, well, "you're a felon," said Mark A.R. Kleiman, editor of the Journal of Drug Policy Analysis. "Period. End of paragraph."....
.... Everyone... just be aware of how the Federal Government creates criminals by the creation of laws. If they passed a law tomorrow, that said "no wiping your ass in more than one direction", suddenly you've got a portion of the populace that were once law-abiding citizens, have now become criminals. Sickening.
sighber
I agree, I would have to say my ability to articulate what I need to say was a bit suppressed...Not that it was gone, but being with THC in my blood, it was more difficult to say what I meant.
I do think that in some way it does make you "stuck"...but not like alcohol...more like a benadryl or should I say about 50mg Diphenhydramine HCI (allergy tabs)..its pretty much like that.
All I need is some good seeds and I'll take care of the rest. Thank you and good-bye...
tomatoes are stronger today than 1970's just ask BC Hothouse...they use hydroponics! My point is, everthing you eat has been chemically modified in one way or another...hell, seed bought at the store will not produce plants that have seeds, keeping you dependant on purchasing seed year after year...please fight that fight too if you feel the need to target something...
Bluelake, would you grow for personal or sell...I think that is the actual debate, and why you cant even if its personal. You are not licensed and insured so how could you deal with a lawsuit if one of your clients had a claim?? We need to solve this and it will help your 420 cause!! Happy Circles.
In states like Alabama they have very strict control of liquor. Do Alabama minors get liquor? Yes. In all 50 states there are strict laws about kids getting prescription medicine to get high. Do kids get prescription medicine to get high? Yes. In all 50 states there are strict laws about minors processing firearms. Do minors have weapons? Yes. If you part water with your hands? Well I think you get it.
95% of the people who want to smoke pot, they are already smoking.
I okay'd smoking back in the 80's when that commie Reagan started the war. Maybe some tightwads need to look back over history and examine why we used, "Don't tread on me". Maybe because some oppressive government was telling people how to live and what to do, and a bunch of white people said a big F/U to them. I've been telling my government F/U, since I was taught to ALWAYS question authority.
I have grown it and would NEVER, N-E-V-E-R, sell even a gram to anybody. That's the point.
Remember the scene in "My Idiot Brother"? In the farmers market? Forget that!
Derek, re #1.13, I totally get what you are saying here. Although my feelings on this subject are basically the same as "Sighber's". The legal pot "industry" would be consumed by the corporate giants. And as one particular clown mentioned:), "you drink cheap beer when good beer is available". I doesn't matter,chances are they are all owned by Miller Brewing! And these type of industry giants contribute heavily to campaigns that will help them prosper even more. I read years ago an article by the President of NORML that Philip Morris had bought the rights to the names,"Panama Red","Acapulco Gold"and "Maui Wowie"! They were already posturing in the event it was ever legalized.
If the states put the price over or the same as it is on the black market I have a feeling that many will continue to get it on the black market. The only way they will beat the black market is to price it considerably lower which from my understanding from a local meeting for information about I-502 they will not be doing.
For those who say they smoked when they were young but stopped when they grew up. I wonder how much of that had to do with it being illegal and you getting together with someone who was not OK with it because it's illegal and you stopped for them. I wonder when you "grew up" did you also stop drinking alcohol? I have found being drunk to be far more debilitating that smoking weed. When I smoked I never passed out, never puked numerous times sometimes in the toilet and sometimes all over myself in public, never became unreasonably aggressive, never yelled in public at 2am, never slurred my words, never had double vision, never had trouble walking or standing up, and never tried to drive home when having any combination of the previously listed. I live in an area between a few bars. Almost every night I have to put up with hearing people yelling, singing and fighting between 12a-2a with the weekends being the worst and I can tell you they didn't come from the neighborhood pot smoking business. I have encountered people who used smoking to act they way they think they are supposed to be when high but I have also seen the same behavior in first time drinkers. It's an excuse to act a certain way.
Derek; if you were a true moderate like myself - you wouldn't be so emotional about this subject...logic and balance, give it a try. Your over the top reasoning makes you much more like Backcountry than I.
If you lived in Washington State, like I did for 45 years, you would know the dedication Washington growers have...you would also know of all the micro breweries in that State. Ballad Bitter for the house. There won't be any government take over of Washington growers, trust me...lol. It just so happens that the most potent strain of weed in Washington, was developed at The University of Washington, getting a cutting from that strain is like getting the best champagne in the world.
So, got any more over the top conspiracies - I love a good conspiracy.
Where is Sgt. Stadanko when you need him!
JP, your example really isn't any better than mine. So from one conspiracy theorist (me) to another (you), let's legalize pot and you can go out there and prove me wrong.
Personally, I don't really care. I drink wine, I drink bud even it if sucks and will admit it, I drink microbrews. I just think that if someone, whether you or another, makes it all sound like gumdrops and lollipops when pot gets legalized, there's a nice big world of reality waiting for them when it is.
The feds should legalize pot. Tomorrow. And let us grow our own. If they let some farmer or regulated agency to grow it, who knows what they'll spray on it (pesticide, etc) I sure as heck don't want to smoke anything that has been sprayed.
Oh, and one mroe thing. Its going to be legalized like tobacco. Not like beer.
Camel - Pot
Marlboro - Pot
And for the 'true believer' American Pot Spirit.
All coming to your local grocery store. Right next to the lottery tickets. You want a pack of joints? That'll be $2 plus $10 tax please. Oh, wait, you got the MICROBREW POT. That'll be $6 plus $10 tax. No smoking inside, please. Oh wait, no smoking outside, either. Here, these are safety sealed shrink wrapped in plastic for you to smoke only in your house...until that law gets changed too....
JI (G)
There is a difference between a researched statistic and one you just pull out of your head/ass.
What is your source? 100% of the people who do that are full of doo-doo.
If you don't know how to buy weed, you probably shouldn't be smoking it.
We need to elect politicians to the federal government that understand this issue ... and will eliminate all these felons overnight with a new law or two.
Phillipe moores is going to be getting richer, the subject is mute though. In one word Probation. Read your history its the same thing, with the same life cycle.
wiseone; you got it.
$300 for a good light, $100 for soil and fertilizer, a few good cutting (no problem in Washington State), and you are good to go.
Stubers nursery has been making a special soil for pot growers for 25 years - need any advice and they are more than willing to help.
A seasoned pot smoker won't buy crap weed - the local growers in Washington drove out the Mexican dirt weed 30 years ago...if you showed up at a party in Washington with Mexican weed, you would be the laughing stock of your friends for a decade.
Only the dumb-asses, like here in Arizona and other Red States, still buy from Mexicans...yes, I know plenty of conservatives who smoke weed.
This is the 'poster' issue for you liberals that shows why we shouldn't let government get to big and control our lives.
It's your beloved federal government that is the issue here. It's still a crime and caught by the feds, your going to jail.
Hey, I'll give you this.
What tobacco companies did was lie and that is why they are being sued. Not because people don't know it is bad for you. However, the punishment on tobacco companies is nothing less than a disguised crusade against smoking anything at all.
I say, forgo every single penalty exerted on tobacco companies, allow privately held businesses like restaurants to determine if, and how, they allow smoking in their interiors, and who have to face the customers anyway, and legalize pot at the same time.
Get rid of the hypocrisy. Let me smoke tobacco or pot at a bar or restaurant who runs his own business with no federal tax breaks, and I am all in.
Worm meat is also right in this regard. If you are pro-states usurping Federal Law, then you obviously agree with the strategy that Arizona is using to defend itself from illegal immigration.
I'm not making a judgement call other than to say be consistent in your approvals. If something is illegal federally, but a state is allowed to make an exception, than you can take that arguement all the way back to slavery if you want to.
Laws can only go so far to control human behavoir. Laws cant stop people from using marijuana. Laws cant stop people from murdering each other either. It is probably worth it to put murderers in prison. Is it worth it to put my neighbor in prison for using marijuana? What kind of freedom is that? Is that good use of my tax dollar?
Derek; you are so far over the top, all I can do is laugh. Slavery - really? I could care less about illegals, and neither does Sam Walton (Walmart), those illegals spend a fortune at Walmart in Tucson. I also could care less about the Federal deficit, and a whole bunch of other Federal crap - as a moderate; I've insulated my self well enough to the point that those issues have no bearing on my life. Live a balanced life, and let others live as they might, just don't bring your drama into my life.
The only thing worse than the anti pot crowd - is paranoid drug users. The things some people worry about...sheesh, nothing like giving your self a stroke.
PS; I don't smoke pot - thanks to the government contract I signed with my doctor. But I'm seriously thinking of moving back to Washington...lol.
You should be, because its internet hyperbole to make a valid point. Usurping Federal law by a state who thinks it is pursuing, 'legitimate goals,' only opens the door for states to use that strategy for what someone might deem illegitimate goals as well. In other words, one extremist is going to use the same strategy as an opposing extremist if it works.
This is a terrible argument. I can drink and not get 'drunk'. A glass of wine (or a nice beer, like a good quad with a steak) can compliment a meal really well. I can also just have 1 beer for the sake of tasting it. In fact, I really don't drink at home much, but when I do it's normally sharing a bottle with my wife for that reason. You smoke weed to get stoned. Pretty much period, unless you happen to have a medical condition, and even then the relief you get for that is just a byproduct of the being stoned bit.
Sipher was right when he said it effects your brain, even when not smoking it, if you do that regularly over a long period of time. This is a medical/scientific fact that pot smokers can't argue with. Having said that, I'm totally for it being legal, as much as many 'stoners' annoy me!
On the topic of a few big corporations taking over the business, you just need to look at craft beer. Now it's got more popular (read increased 'market share') you have miller trying to make their own (I've actually had Batch 19 and it's not too bad!) and Goose Island were recently bought out by... InBev.
Again, use wine, not beer.
If you want to make the arguement.
And people wonder why stuff just gets copied and pasted as a post...
Not true. I don't have a medical condition, but occasionally (much like the occasional drink) I'll smoke some weed to just relax or to help fall asleep. Not to get stoned, much like I don't drink to get completely wasted either. Don't talk about what you don't know about and try to pass it off as fact.
"reefer madness"
Funniest freaking movie I've ever seen!
lol. Why do you think you are more relaxed? Maybe I should clear this up a little bit. I probably shouldn't say "getting stoned". What I should say is that the only reason for smoking (or ingesting, if you want to be picky) pot, is to get the benefits of the effects of it on your brain. Call it getting stoned, being high or whatever, that's your only reason for smoking it.
Again, I can have a beer without the intention of, or having, that effect. Case in point, I had about 2/5's (bit less than half) of a 12oz bottle of a beer on Friday. It had no effect on me, I just drank it because it was one of a selection of seasonal beers my wife brought home because we're beer geeks and like to do that type of thing. Didn't want it to relax, or to help me fall asleep, I would never have drank it if my wife hadn't wanted to open it. She had the other 3/5's of it and another beer or 2 after that.
By the way, if you need to either drink or smoke pot to relax (or to sleep), I think you might have a little problem there. When that happens, you're 'using' it. Could be a slippery slope.
Wanted to say, btw. The only reason I say the type of thing I did is because I'm sick and tired of pro mj people going down the whole tired "yeah, but alcohol..." route, and pretending that nothing negative can happen from it, ever. I did say that I am an advocate for legalizing it, I don't think it's evil but it can be misused, as can alcohol. You might want to keep people like me onside!
"Where is that legal pot coming from" ?
The drug cartels of course, as soon as they get their feet in the City/State legislative process. Wait a minute, they already have.
There are FEDERAL LAWS concerning this issue. Expect the DOJ to take full control of the situation....NOT !!!
I have to object to the notion that pot is some substance that people only use to get completely stoned out of their minds, while one can supposedly have a beer or glass of wine with a meal with no effect. Pot works the exact same way. As with any substance, dosage is key. For instance, if you pack yourself 1 or 2 hits worth of herb, your high won't be nearly as strong as if you had smoked an entire bowl or joint to yourself. Maybe you're about to eat a delicious gourmet meal and you take a few tokes before to stimulate your appetite, similar to pairing a red wine with a top notch cut of steak. After your glass of wine, you certainly won't be drunk, but your perception will be slightly altered due to the alcohol you've consumed. It's the exact same thing with pot. After you take a few hits, you won't be laughing your ass off for no reason or acting like a fool, but you'll definitely feel its effects.
Anyone who thinks drug cartels are involved in the marijuana trade on the West Coast obviously hasn't spent much time out here recently (past 2 - 3 decades). Like one previous poster reported, if you showed up to a gathering out here with Mexican schwag like you find in the midwest or south, you'd be laughed at and ridiculed relentlessly. Where I live, even the outdoor grown in Northern Cali and Southern Oregon often is scoffed at because it doesn't compare in quality and flavor to what is grown indoors. And for a lot of the country, the outdoor that is exported from here is the highest quality that you'll find.
If big tobacco does get involved after the feds make their stand on it known, I think the good people who have been growing will still have their place in the market. I guarantee that Philip Morris won't be able to produce the same quality as those who have been immersed in the culture of marijuana for decades. The corporate product will be lower grade, kind of like comparing PBR or Budweiser to a Ninkasi Tricerahops Double IPA or a Deschutes Hop Henge (God bless Oregon :)
Fun fact: People are discussing regulating pot like alcohol in MY state, Colorado, because that's exactly the language used on the ballot when we voted. I know you guys are mostly talking WA in this thread, but here in CO (where we will be allowed to grow our own) we have accepted that it will be regulated like EtOH because that's the way the law was written.
Now, we don't have a lot of vineyards here but what we do have is a rich beer snob/microbrew culture. There are at least a dozen microbreweries in my town and Bud and Miller drinkers are often openly mocked. Are these small guys owned by Bud and Miller, though? No, they're not, and we know which are which. New Belgium and Odell are right down the street and they make a hell of a lot of money without selling out to the bigger guys, along with a ton of other breweries in the vicinity that make plenty of money without selling out because they seriously care about the craft and the product. You can tell when you speak to them--they're often there in the tasting room.
Also in CO is a lot of pot, it's true. Most people I know, including my parents and grandparents, partake. I work in neurological clinical research and the docs and other researchers smoke by their own admissions, too, though never on the job. Once we are free to grow, though, I doubt we will. We are free to brew our own beer, aren't we? We don't though, we just go down the street and buy it from the non-Miller brewery or liquor store; considering that it is cheaper and faster to brew beer than it is to grow pot, I'd say that very little will change around here.
So you can smoke a joint, but you just can't buy or sell it. Gotcha! That's what I call a catch 22.
@Oregon Pat
You sound considerably in denial. Protracted tolerance is a common factor in all drugs. Basically, it means you have to consume more of the same product to get the same effect. How many people can consume a whole pack of beer, down shots like they're going out of style, and do the same thing repeatedly for days at a time? Anyone who can buy it. I've seen it happen. Also, in this current day and age, you don't even have to be 21 to consume alcohol, as long as you don't buy it. When a drug becomes recreational, it's almost a certainty people will abuse them to some extent. Every drug has side effects.
POT WARS!!!
Until the Gvt gets it's act together on production and distribution, people will get it where they always have. There is a 40 year old dealer system that works very well. The interesting thing to see, is if the current network is going to fade away? I'll bet not. Once legalization gains traction were going to see price wars between the current suppliers and the "sealed/taxed" pot stores.
LOL @ people that actually think that people here in CO are buying weed from the cartels. If you know anything about pot, you know that mexican dirt weed is brick compressed, tastes like crap, is super cheap, and nobody wants it. People usually buy it because it's easy to get, or because they can't afford the expensive stuff. Here in CO, quality marijuana is what the majority of people go for. What many don't realize is that with the medicinal market here, many growers sell privately (illegally), and they sell to medicinal store fronts. It's easy, as a non-patient, to purchase medical quality pot from any number of sources, and the grower makes more money this way. I haven't purchased mexican dirt weed in a decade. Everything I purchase is grown locally, within this state. I hardly ever smoke pot anymore compared to the past. I used to smoke multiple times per day, and now I might smoke a little on the weekends, that's it. I've got an eighth ounce that has lasted me the last 5 months. I'm just glad that I can now have it in my vehicle, and I won't get in trouble even if I'm sober. I was convicted of possession of paraphernalia 6 years ago. My only criminal history. I wasn't high, just carryign some I had taken with me to go camping. Cop smelled it when he pulled me over (speeding), and I gave it up. He let me go, but it resulted in multiple substance abuse classes and hundreds in fines. Glad those days are over.
@Lisa
Absolutely right. I may have smoked the Mexican crap once, in college when I was broke and so were all of my friends. Even then, we grossed ourselves out because the local stuff is so prominent and so much better. Nobody I know smokes cartel pot, nor would they ever smoke something they didn't know the origins of, not because they are worried about it being tainted but because there is no reason to. It's much nicer, cleaner, and fresher from a local. The person I get it from is my relative, and he grows medicinally for a living.
Now I smoke once a day, at night, after dinner most days. I too, have only conviction on my record and it's for paraphernalia, for which I had to go to an AA-like program that was complete bullcrap. That will be the major positive effect.
Still, not much is set to change in Colorado.
Dan Conner: "Did we really use to enjoy this stuff?"
Roseanne Conner: "It was a whole different time. There was a war. It was a lot more fun."
Roseanne
"Again, I can have a beer without the intention of, or having, that effect. Case in point, I had about 2/5's (bit less than half) of a 12oz bottle of a beer on Friday. It had no effect on me, I just drank it because it was one of a selection of seasonal beers my wife brought home because we're beer geeks and like to do that type of thing. Didn't want it to relax, or to help me fall asleep, I would never have drank it if my wife hadn't wanted to open it. She had the other 3/5's of it and another beer or 2 after that."
To start with you obviously don't smoke pot and because of that you obviously are talking S$%t about something you have no real knowledge of.
1. It doesn't matter if you "feel" it or not, the alcohol is effecting you period! So you can get off that line of Bull. And what does the fact you didn't really want it have to do with anything? DO you think Pot smokers have no control?
2. What makes you think its not the same with pot?
I say that because it is in fact just like that. You can build up tolerance just like you with booze.
What you drinkers can't do is drink all day and still stand up because the alcohol will build up in your system. Guess what ? That's not the case with Pot..You can smoke it all day and never get anything but a mild buzz. Granted if you have smoked in awhile you will be more buzzed but you will never be as high as you can get drunk period! Booze is a far more dangerous and potent drug than pot.
Don't believe me ? Look up some alcohol over dose vs Pot over doses stats . I don't know how many thousands of alcohol OD there are (I didn't look them up feel free) but there are ZERO pot OD's.
You FAILED at trying to defend your alcohol vs Pot
@BP - I'm sorry, but I do know what I am talking about here. The amount of beer I drank was less than 6oz's. It was nothing more than a taste. The only thing my body got from it was an "ooh, this is nice, not quite what I was expecting, it's actually quite light". And, btw, I can drink all day and still be able to be stand up. I can drink slowly, moderate myself, and eat while drinking. It's not that hard to do. Besides which, I don't drink to get totally wasted, I drink socially.
As for whoever mentioned red wine with a meal being the same as smoking a joint to get your appetite up. No, you don't get it. You still smoked that joint to get an effect from it. In this case the effect was an increase in appetite. You'll note that I said you can drink alcohol without the intention (not just the benefit) of being drunk, or affected by the alcohol. There are no circumstances where you are smoking a joint, whether to get totally stoned or just to increase your appetite, that you are not intending to get the effects of pot. Give me a reason you would smoke it and not feel any effect? It would be totally pointless!
You guys just need to admit it. I'm not even saying there's anything wrong with this! I'm just pointing out that there is that is a difference between it and alcohol (that alcohol can be about more than getting drunk), since you pot smokers want to go all looney toons about how evil alcohol is.
I haven't smoked pot in 40 years but would really like to be able to buy some and enjoy it...legally if possible, no idea where to get it....before I die. It was great fun in college.
My advice is...smokers in Colo and Wash...show some sense. What you do affects how other states (I'm in redneck Texas) will react and even more importantly, try not to give the feds any excuse to play Gestapo.
Never throw away a seed, plant it somewhere, anywhere...send seeds to other states, if nothing else, throw some on the the side of the highway..it's a weed, some will grow. If it gets spread out enough, there's no way they can keep it illegal, and the price will be very low for everyday class of pot. (You entrepreneurs can get rich on premium pot and the array of toys and foods and beverages)
So there's my advice, probably too late for me considering where I live, but hope you guys have a good time with one of God's greatest gifts....man, I remember it being great as a sex enhancer with my wife when we were young, hehe.
Amazed, I was so ticked off yesterday when I read about the idiot college kids to brought medicated brownies to school. No permanent harm was done, and the miscreants are up on assault charges, as they should be!
Actually, even though we call MJ a weed, it's not at all easy to grow - provided that the goal is bud that is even worth smoking/vaping/cooking, etc. It's almost entirely sensimilla. In six months of averaging a gram a day (figure 1/4 ounce per week), I have found only two, tiny seeds from what I've purchased. The seeds that I purchase to grow myself are all female (not something a professional grow operation could do), so there won't be seeds since there won't be males (hopefully).
I think what is going to most blow people away is what breeders have done with cannabis. There are hundreds of cannaboids that do different things, and breeders target specific effects. I take one variety for pain at night, and my daytime variety is "go" juice, very energizing and cerebral. I'm sure glad that if I have to be stuck being my age, with my genetically-screwed back, that I get to have this comfort. So, the grand majority of the people I see inside our local dispensary are over 50. People think that it's youth who are driving this train, but it's not. It's us 50s/60s kids. :)
Farm out, man......right arm!! "Marijuana will get you through times with no money, better than money will get you through times with no marijuana." I think that was The Fabulous Furry Freak Brothers that said that. I also remember a silly, but quite fun to play, board game called 'Feds and Heads'. SSSSUUUUUUHHHHHHHH............................................................................AAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHH. Have a good day!!!!
Tracy--What are those two types of weed? I could use the pain relief one and the "be active" one myself. ....and any way to get the seeds in Texas? some mail-order something? Hell, with my charm, at my advanced age and with some places it being legal, I kinda doubt any jury would send me to jail and I could grow a little for myself...can't drink anymore because of my meds but doc said marijuana wouldn't hurt except maybe lungs if over smoked and might help, but no medical in Texas.
Two types? Go into a Marijuana dispensary and you'll see over 100 different varieties for sale.
I think he's referring to cannabis sativa (cerebral high) and cannabis indica (body stone). These are the two types that the engineered hybrids in the dispensary are derived from. The other two, Ruderalis and Australian Bast_rd, aren't worth smoking from what I've heard.
Amazed, on-line from the Netherlands, incredible varieties, some target specific, seeds for sale all varieties, plus grow advice.
Cookies anyone?
These people will exert more effort finding a pot supply than a job.'m so glad the bar owner is proud of the fact that his patrons are all stoned. He driving them all home or are they free to go out and kill someone?
The Feds will come around when they see the revenue potentail. Use the tobacco tax as a template. Put a tax of $50/pound on it, and away we go.
Wow...you mean there are 'varieties'?!
I can see the 'slow line' at the pot store now of us oldsters that have no realization of this. Will they have sampling rooms?
I have to take 2 oxycodones a day (half of one 4 times a day) for chronic pain from 12 operations - the drug contract I signed with my doctor says I can't smoke weed - I currently have lived on 3 hours of sleep for 13 years due to pain. I tried some pot (for sleep) between drug tests and it worked wonders concerning my sleep problems. Just try and average 3 hours of sleep (I never know when I'll be able to sleep) a day, then get back to me if you (generic use of the word "you") think weed should be legal.
Control freaks trying to run the world - your day will come soon enough, then lets see how tough you are.
@R.Scalzo - I would rather see people stoned driving on the road then to see people zombie-fied from pharmaceutics!!
dand J_P
thats awful. _— too cannot sleep, because of a horrific youth and the horrible men in it...
_— wake up screaming _— head off and swinging wildly, then _— found pot...all _— can say is, phew. Thank God
$50 dollars a pound huh? I'm thinking...it probably takes a person a freaking long long time to smoke a pound of weed....they wouldn't be coming back for their next batch all that often...
Scalzo,
People who smoke pot don't go out and kill people. They order some pizza, a cold 2-liter of coke, throw on an old Pink Floyd LP and chill out on their back porch...The only people killing over weed are the dealers...if it were legal, they would be gone soon after.
I don't smoke but I imagine the only thing that is getting killed around a pothead is a gallon of ice cream.
@Patches: I am with you 100%...
My husband takes morphine for complications of a severe back injury 30 years ago, plus oxy, plus a strong muscle relaxer, and others (13 total, about 30 pills a day) all given to him by the V.A. All these have been prescribed for him since we stopped smoking weed 7 or 8 years ago; up til then, a few much less dangerous pain-killers were all that was needed. Like you, he was also able to sleep, whereas now, it is stupor rather than sleep, and far less restful. The medications he is given also cause a bunch of new & different problems that he didn't have before, all listed side effects, many that now need meds of their own to control.
He cannot smoke weed; he will lose his V.A. participation if he tests positive during the yearly drug test that they give randomly without warning. (Think about that one: he can test positive for opiates and all is well...but THC will get him banned!) We've always been upfront with the V.A. about the past weed use, that it actually helped more than the stuff they give him, but they refuse to hear it; in essence, the USGov't would rather he suffer from, or further medicate, some of the side effects, and be an addict, than let him smoke or give him marinol. I find this absolutely incredible.
It's really time for all this stupidity to end.
R. Scalzo
So, you made the tired-out old stereotypical assumption that pot smokers don't have jobs, huh?
Maybe if you came out from under the rock you are living under and took a breathe of fresh reality-air you would know your statement is FALSE! Way to go in perpetuating lies and stereotypes. Did you know there is a list of 200 famous people who were contributors to society that ALL smoked pot? Probably not considering you think all pot smokers are waste cases and don't contribute anything to society.
No one is FREE to go out and kill anyone. And I'm willing to bet the only people you will hear about killing anyone are the ones who choose to drive under the influence of alcohol. It is still illegal to drive under the influence of pot and anyone caught doing so will be prosecuted. Legalizing pot doesn't mean we live in chaos.
Hey PatchesPal, I know exactly what you you are going through, the three hours of sleep at night and all, I was taking 120 mg of oxycodone a day, along with a few other narcotics for pain. People dont understand how these drugs work, they think you pop them and you get all buzzed and messed up, and the biggest misconception is sleepy. People have no clue, just because they had to take a few norco or vicodin for a few days for pain and thats how it affected them, they think thats how it affects everyone. the buzz type effects dont last very long at all, when you have to take them long term for chrinic pain the buzz wears off very quick, if theres any at all. Now i dont want anyone to misunderstand me, you do feel effects from the drugs, the biggest effect is the feeling of well being, and generally feeling great, along with a whole bunch of energy, thats why its hard to sleep. alot of the narcotics will wire you up more than any coffee you can drink, thats why they are so addictive, you feel good, not buzzed, good. Then when its time to stop the drugs, for however good they make you feel when on them, you feel the exact opposite effects when withdrawing off of them, you feel like the worst flu and pain you can imagine, that lasts sometimes for a few weeks, most give up and get right back on the drugs, why? to feel normal again, not high. Even the biggest heroin addict will tell you they arent getting high, they take the drug to just feel normal. They may have started because they were getting high, but after a while you cant get high, if you stop though, bad bad days ahead. But i went way off the subject here. i just know how it feels to be in pain and get no sleep. Take flexeril, or neurontin, both will make you sleep if you cant smoke pot, i cant either, due to drug tests.
Time for company "drug and alcohol policies" to get real as well. Sammy Sot can drink a bottle of vodka or a twelve pack of beer after work and it's NO PROBLEM. But have THC show up in your bloodstream from a week ago and you are fired. Can't wait for the lawsuits to start flying on this. More ambulance chasing lawyers on tv saying you were wrongfully discharged because it is legal now. Bring them on if it keeps employer's noses out of ones personal life.
I must be missing something here with the medical use of MJ. I know it's not really an rX yet but if you need it for medical reasons, you should be able to fill a prescription at the pharmacy.
The other drugs mentioned are not legal on the street, but you are able to get them legally. If you need/want MJ for medical reasons, you should be able to get it at the pharmacy and not have to forrage around for it.
Worm..only a few states allow medical marijuana.
Worm meat: You really are missing something with the medical marijuana system. At least, here in CO. You can find a shop nearly anywhere, within a few miles of any home in the city. It's easy to walk into a shop, look at their stuff, and buy whatever you want, up to 2 ounces per day. There is no "foraging" around for it. It's readily available, and you don't have to wait like you do at a pharmacy.
As others have said, it's amazing what it can do. My husband has sciatica, and he gets all kinds of prescription drugs from his doctor to help with the pain. He prefers vicodin, as it has the lowest side effects for him. The problem is that while it may dull the pain, it does nothing to relax him. It makes him somewhat amped up, and he has a hard time sleeping. Without it, he's in pain and has a hard time sleeping anyway. He's found there's a certain time of night to take it so he can fall asleep, but then he still wakes up in the middle of the night in pain. He now has his medical marijuana card and smokes just the tiniest bit about an hour before bed. The peak of the high is gone, and he starts to calm down, and sleeps like a baby. The relaxation of the pot helps with the general pain, and no vicodin required. He's relaxed long enough that he gets a good night's sleep and wakes up rested. He doesn't like to be high, nor does he like the taste or smell. But the effects beat every other pharmaceutical drug out there. Me personally, I just like to get stoned every so often. Plus when I get a mild stomach ache, pot clears that up quickly. So glad it's legal now.
Hey Stanky Lady,
Token Ganja Style.
"So where will all that 'legal' pot come from?"
Ah, yes, that's the "burning" question inquiring minds want answered!
The feds will probably wait till they build up their businesses and then steal, sorry, Confiscate everything they own like they did here in Montana. It's amazing that all they take just disappears and is never seen again!
The feds tried that with the Mustang Ranch in Nevada. They ran it bankrupt. Note to everyone who thinks the government can create jobs: It's already been proved that they couldn't make money selling booze and ass.
ATTENTION LEGALIZATION SUPPORTERS!!! Whining/venting here can be fun, but RIGHT NOW go to
http://www.whitehouse.gov/contact/submit-questions-and-comments
and fill out the comment form and send it to Mr Obama. Let's flood his inbox with our requests that he bring our drug law enforcement into compliance with what Americans actually want. For example, here is what I wrote to him. Feel free to copy and paste.
Dear Mr. President,
Congratulations on your re-election, sir, and best wishes for your second term. About that: I’m certain you noticed that in other results that day, voters in the states of Colorado and Washington also voted to remove all penalties for people who wish to ingest the flowers and leaves of nature’s marijuana plant. Indeed sir, if one totals those two states’ results, as of Nov. 10, marijuana got some 30,000 more votes than you did. There remains, of course, the sticky issue of our federal laws on the subject. I know you don’t have the power to eliminate them on your own, and that Congress has enough trouble agreeing on what time it is. But what you can do, if the voice of the people in those states matters to you, is order the leaders of the relevant agencies, such as the DEA, FBI and National Park Service, to allocate their precious resources on matters the people clearly find more urgent, such as human trafficking and hazardous meth labs – you know, crimes in which a person actually directly harms or threatens the safety of another. You can tell these agency leaders to order their agents not to spend any time or our precious taxpayer dollars hunting for marijuana plants, or tracking marijuana dealers or retailers or users. Should they come across such people in the course of other investigations, they should maintain their focus on the original topic and give the lowest possible priority to the marijuana. And you can order the US Attorneys’ Office to focus its resources on other matters and not prosecute marijuana cases. We could even give this new approach a catchy title, such as “Don’t Seek, Don’t Find.” At least until our federal marijuana laws are repealed. Thank you Mr. President.
The most criminal activity in the US comes from the halls of congress, treason, liers, pediphiles, insider trading, bribes and outright theft from US. They forget that WE THE PEOPLE run this country not them. The nat'l debt isn't what we owe the banks, it's what they owe and have stolen from the people.
Sorry Justme-123. Obama or any other person with power in the BeltWay has been bought and paid for when it comes to this issue. No amount of petitioning by the public will do any good.
Overlooked in the immediate reaction to passage of the initiatives, both pro and con, is an important public health question.
The fed is not worried about anyones health.
The fed is more concerned on how to control taxes on a weed that grows from seed.
Melekalikimaka
Prohibition, bathtub gin... There was always talk that the Feds had it figured out, and working with the cigarette companies, could go into production within months. So why not? Liquor tax, cigarette tax, pot tax? There will still be home farms, just as there are home-brews. But it's a way for the feds to make money. The big issue would have to be the drug lords not wanting the government to get a cut of their profits. I'd rather share the road with somebody high on m.j. than a drunk.
Worth a try.
I don't care what my friends do, but it is a filthy disgusting habit and they smell and stink from it. So do their houses !
What the hell... Worth a try.
I logged into the Presidential Question site and posted the following:
Tell me again how this is any concern of yours? People need to start taking care of their own glass houses.
And JustMe123, let's not forget marijuana legalization got 3o,ooo more votes than Obama, but add to that another 137,949 more votes in Colorado and yet another 464,726 more votes in Washngton (state) than the republican sponsored Mitt Romney! I wish you all "Compassion, Truth, Peace, and Prosperity!"
clwyd-2621393 - I bet people (notice I did not say your friends which I doubt you have many) don't want to sit around in your living room watching you drink and belch either.
clwyd-2621393, I have never spoken of my friends in such a vile manner. Perhaps you should rethink the meaning and value of friendship. With friends like you, who needs enemies?
"Regardless of any changes in state law ... growing, selling or possessing any amount of marijuana remains illegal under federal law," said Jenny Durkan, the U.S. attorney in Seattle. She said the Justice Department is reviewing its options in Washington and Colorado
again the government is running the people not the people running the government
its like we are being ran by our own alquida terrorists and its our government
someone needs to remind the government we pay them they are not paying us unless its under the table for their own illegal actions
the government puts pot users in jail for smoking pot but when the government gets caught doing illegal gottengains
nothing happening here
sad curupt terrorist organization = the feds we need to disband that bunch of morons
im sorry i didnt mean morons because they are moroff
These laws allowing use of a controlled substance are in direct contradiction to federal law. So what is Obama and Holder doing? Are they suing these states? No, they're not, but why not?
Compare it to illegal immigration. Several states wrote laws mirroring federal law so the states could act where the federal government refuses to, and what do Obama and Holder do? They don't waste a second suing these states.
The double standard is blatant. What's the difference? It's really quite simple. It doesn't boil down to being consistent in the application of law, playing favorites with states, doing what's right or anything like that. It all boils down to one thing: VOTES.
(Yep, and that Obama is one stand-up guy!)
So here is my question. If you were all for the Feds stepping in on illegal immigration because it's a federal case, where are you now?
hs321 - Your argument fails on the premise of the 10th. Read it, it's in our Constitution.
Far as for illegal immigration you're asking where is everyone? Well for starters maybe more Americans would prefer marijuana legal than illegal immigration. Ever thought of that? Do some research, last I saw well over 60% of Americans in the latest polls would like to see marijuana legal.
Sorry, but it appears you're in the minority.
Boderland...the issue is the double standard by the Feds. Laws aren't supposed to be enforced based on popularity. (I'm all for the legalization of many drugs just to stop all the murder and corruption worldwide.)
Corruption takes many forms. Reflect on comment 1.1 above.
Again, it's about VOTES. Staying in power and control. Oath of Office be damned.
hs321, it's Obama, need I say more. The only people more incompetent than his administration are the ones that voted for him... again!
Look, I hate to be the one to burst the bubble here, but there are some very important legal issues that need to be taken care of before we go headstrong into this. After all, the @!$%#ing Reaganites, Justice Scalia, and the Puritanical Brigade has really @!$%#ed with our laws on this one. For instance:
Many people believe that drug criminalization is a matter that could be handled by the President himself. Not true. He could affect the enforcement of said law, and that would definitely be in line with his stated claims to allow legal use of medical marijuana. But, with the Bush incentive programs for cities to pay for SWAT teams, and the necessity of showing that those teams are productive for the cities to keep their funding, Obama holds the cards there. States don't really get a say, because the cities think they need the SWAT crew. Even a city of 8000 with no murders in the past decade can get one. This means Obama can bypass the states in terms of enforcement, and he has shown already that he lied in his promise not to go after users that complied with state law. And I don't see him getting any better on this issue (and for those partisan hacks that claim "Romney wouldn't have changed it, either," yeah, I know, which is why I hate this issue because nobody in Washington is willing to take legalization seriously).
For those hopeful that we could get a Ron Paulian bill through Congress, well, firstly, I doubt it would pass in the current climate, or any climate in the past 20 years. One thing that has had bipartisan appeal for the relatively recent past is the whole "Law and Order" image that government officials like to project, particularly district attorneys. Most people don't bother looking into violations of alleged criminals' rights, or the reasons they were declared criminals in the first place. They look at arrest and conviction records, and vote for the guy that has the highest in both categories. Note Joe Arpaio (though that may also be that Maricopa County is full of idiotic, bigotted @!$%#s, as well). But, being "tough on drugs" has been popular ever since Ronald Goat@!$%#er Reagan and his wife came to power, and even before with Joe McCarthy and his anti-hippieism. So, people most likely to come down hard on "immoral" behavior are the ones we end up electing to office in the first place, and they have a stake in being able to punish more people rather than less. Add in the incentives and lobbying done by our brand-spanking new private prison system (something that should be illegal on its face to anyone with an ounce of gray matter), and we've got a lot of inertia to overcome, and a lot of "legal" campaign donations as well. And, unfortunately, pot smokers are much less likely to have the funds for that.
The truth is, we have signed anti-drug treaties with other countries, courtesy of Ronald Goat@!$%#er Reagan and George HW Bush, mostly. And, according to the Constitution, those treaties have the same level of legality as a Constitutional Amendment. I'm serious, read the section on treaties, they become the law of the land with the same sovereignty of the Constitution. So, even were Congress to magically legalize pot, the Constitution says that won't matter, as we have to obey any treaties we enter into as a sovereign nation. Now, the argument could be made that since we're fine with ignoring other international treaties, like the ones prohibiting torture, then we could ignore this one as well. We could, except the drugs are specifically stated. I don't believe specific methods of torture were mentioned in the Geneva Convention, though I could be wrong, only the effects of said acts were mentioned in that anything that caused said effects were prohibited. Now, I'm as much for prosecuting Bush and Cheney as war criminals (since everyone seems to have forgotten that Bush should have been prosecuted for insider trading in the Enron scandal anyway, and he did commit war crimes, or allow those under him to do so in his name). Personally, I don't think that's the way to go.
Finally, there is the Tenth Amendment argument. Since smoking marijuana (or ingestion of anything for that matter) is not an explicitly protected right, the treaties override the Tenth Amendment because the US Constitution is sovereign law where it is explicit. The argument could be made that the Ninth Amendment should have prohibited the feds from making those treaties in the first place, but since when has the Ninth Amendment ever been respected by anybody? Personally, I really do like the Ninth Amendment, but no serious legal argument using it as a basis has ever won in court, to my knowledge. And, to be fair, it is extremely vague in its wording considering what it is supposed to be able to protect.
Also concerning the Tenth Amendment, aside from being overridden by the treaties we've signed, the act of Nullification is what brought on the Civil War. There is a similar, well-known precedent before that to this situation, if not quite so stacked against the states. The Whiskey Rebellion is what I'm talking about. For those who would argue that the states that legalize, regulate, and tax marijuana were to attempt to strong-arm the federal government, should the feds follow the route of withholding money for schools, roads, etc., by withholding their federal taxes, I'm sure the feds would send in the Army to remove from office every politician that was complicit in the scheme, and institute a martial law scenario that would come with new elections, etc. Then, after rounding up the people caught smoking dope, there wouldn't be enough people left to elect pot-friendly politicians. Yes, it's a bit nightmarish, but like I said, there is precedent.
All in all, I think it's a good thing CO and WA legalized pot. I don't think it would be good to attempt to strong-arm the feds into not enforcing federal law. I think it's important that the feds see that the people do not agree with the law, to the point where they are willing to attempt to override it. This should be a wake-up call to Obama and Congress. We the people are tired of the same old excuses. We're tired of our calls being pawned off as loony and hippie-ish. We're tired of your racist policies, tired of the bull@!$%# SWAT teams that are unnecessary to serve an 80-year old cancer patient a warrant, tired of your militarization of the police in general. We're tired, and we're getting angry. Listen to us now, and listen well, and woe unto those who fail to heed the will of the people as demonstrated legally.
jimboza; Why because you say so?? Little boy, I have been paying taxes for about 40 years now and I don't need some parasite like you telling me or anything. Who do you think was paying property taxes so you could probably flunk out of school More white trailer trash is all you are, what and your alternitive, Sarah Palin, Michelle Bachman, the tea party??? Either you do know and you are playing the game or just to stupid to understand, scratch the surface of the tea party and you will find a white sheet, like in the Klan. Why your Christian Taliban friends, which is why I love the 2nd ammendment. The DEA would rather bust pot heads than giet off their fat A$$es and go after the dangerous people. I don't know if you can count to 25 but we have 25% of the worlds population of people in prison and we are only 5% of the population. So jimboza, close your trailer door and SHUTUP
It is not a brand new thing in Colorado. Many thousands (hundreds of thousands?) have been using medical MJ legally for quite a while now. Yes, I do consider it legal, whether or not the federal government does. Despite hysterical warnings and city/county bans on dispensaries, the medical MJ industry is doing very, very well here. I suspect that it will do quite well as retail too. I suspect the US government may pull a Vatican - they'll pretend that people aren't doing the no-no (say, birth control for Catholics) despite widespread evidence to the contrary. Eventually, when they realize that their failure to acknowledge reality has rendered them useless on the subject, they'll smarten up.
Of course medical MJ is doing well. Every stoner has a fake medical use license. The only problem is that smoking MJ is not great as far as medical use goes. It's inefficient and does as much harm as it does good in most cases.
jim my father that died of cancer last year would disagree with you. FYI he never smoked until he got so sick that he could not keep his food down. So no as you say he was not some stoner pretending to be sick he was dying with cancer. ugh people like you make me sick to my stomach. I don't give a damn what you are the federal gov't has to say if I had it to do all over I would be out talking to drug dealers trying to find my father some relief again. Although I still have yet to understand with some of the riduculously powerful drugs they gave him that made him just sleep all day why was it so bad that he have something that helped with the nausea enough that he could keep food down. Of course I live in Alabama and we will probably be the last state to legalize cause that just how bama rolls decades behind the rest of the country.
I'm sorry for your loss, Neko. I'm glad you were able to find something that gave him at least some semblance of life rather than the drugs that just take the consciousness away with everything else.
They will need to hash out a plan quickly, or they will look like dopes talking smack and blowing smoke. I wouldn't look a gift horse in the mouth, but what's the point of legalizing pot without any legal means of obtaining it?
There is a reason that the word dope means what it does...both as a drug and a person....
Ha ha ha...you said "hash".
That's all exciting to hear, Ed. They've been chanting that in the nursing home since 1966. What else do you have? Ed, do you think it should be banned? Perfectly valid opinion. How shall we accomplish that, Ed? Because nothing has worked for the last 100 years, and 2 trillion enforcement and court dollars.
Let's hear your proposed enforcement strategy. Dope? Continuing to spend billions on trying and failing to ban something sounds a little dopey to me. What ya got?
@ed-2781260,
The term dope comes from dopamine where the nerve endings in the brain come together during times of pleasure even during sex and or eating foods that are really enjoyable, such as chocolate. It has nothing to do with being stupid, clueless and or careless. I guess if you find something you enjoy and it makes you happy then you are a dope.Weird I know but if you don' t believe me, then please go to the world of Google and check it out for yourself.
Enjoy it and then you and I would be a dope weather we smoke weed or not.
Your acid wit is ganja get you in trouble. I suspect the feds will be all lit up over this. So get with the program, bud.
There's a reason it's called a BuyBull, too, Ed. That you have to be stupid enough to Buy it, and the Bull you're buying.
Dope is dope, along with those that use it...LOL
Folks... Ed is nothing less or more than a troll. If the issue was same sex marriage, he would have a sister who died at the hands of a crazed lesbian on their wedding night.
Denver Bill 2 -- Can always count on you for some early-morning humor! Of course, the whole marijuana legalization issue could be solved by a joint session of Congress...
Texas Warren --- It probably wouldn't work, considering their record as bogarts ..... not passing anything.
Don't forget to pass the Jay although he might be offended. Also beware of any roaches who might accidently creep into your bag of cheetos from the ashtray. As far as this article is concerned people who truly think that there is not enough pot on the streets to satisfy everyone who wants it is in deep denial. The whole concept of prohibition was a fail from the beginning.
What this country needs right now is to probably get stoned. It would bring the stress levels down a lot.
Think about it...
I'd rather not..It would be the worst possible scenario for the country
What's the best possible scenario, genius, and how do we achieve it?
Ed-2781260,
Have you ever gotten high on cannabis?
During the 70s, I used to put away an ounce a week.
Quit to become a cop or judges order? Just curious. Not trying to be a smart a&&.
I quite because it was effecting my health. it isn't really good for you....I was a painter and could smoke all I wanted....It started effecting my nervous system and caused a few cronic problems, till I gave it up.
It was an intersting process and quite a struggle I used to smoke cigarettes but couldn't take them with the pot, so I quite tobacco.... I had to start smoking cigarettes again though to help me quit pot, t..Then I quite the cigarettes also..
Ed, I call bullsh!t!!! An ounce a week is excessive and I'm not so sure it can even be consumed that fast by a few people trying to go through that ounce in a week's time.
People, it's time to get realistic already. The war on drugs (only addressing weed here) is absolute stupidity. Otherwise law abiding people being given a criminal record for possession of a small amount is outrageous. I know of numerous middle class friends who's young adult children have encountered legal issues because of it being illegal... costing much in legal fees, issues in trying to find a decent job, and problems in those families that should have never happened.
Legalize it across the country and see how many jobs are created and how much money can be collected from taxing it. There may be some who choose to grow their own but my understanding is that it's not the simplest plant to grow if you want it to bud... but think of the entrepreneurial opportunities. Stimulate the economy much?!?!?!
I can't help but wonder how much the crime rate would actually go down... especially in cases of domestic violence or other aggressive behavior based crimes. Maybe some of the abusers who drink themselves into oblivion would instead choose to switch to a drug that would actually mellow them out and make them much easier to live with? Just a thought. I was married to an emotionally and mentally abusive alcoholic when I was younger and would have been thrilled if he'd been smoking weed and mellowing out rather than drinking and getting meaner than a snake. Doubt that I'd have been spending so many nights a week crying while he berated me for hours on end about a spider web in the corner of the ceiling that I'd missed when cleaning. Just saying.
And yes, it would be absolutely necessary for the cops to watch for impaired drivers, similar to those who choose to drink and drive. But really, most people who smoke weed (at least the ones that I knew when I was young) would get overly careful and try to avoid driving under the influence.
Let the feds chase real criminals like those who commit fraud against Medicare. Why don't they chase the banks and Wall St criminals; they've done more damage to this country than a bit of weed ever did. The most damage has been because of including weed in the drug war!
Putting it away isn't smoking it.
What happened Ed? Graduate to drinking?
The Feds need to pull their craniums out of their keisters and take Cannabis off the schedule 1. It doesn't come anywhere near the criteria for a schedule 1 narcotic drug.
It's really the moral majority doing all the dictating on this matter. You bible thumpers need to get a clue too. God put this plant here for a reason and the ten commandments don't mention a single word about its' prohibition. Why should you? Are you folks saying God made a mistake that you feel compelled to rectify?
The propaganda movie Reefer Madness was produced by a wealthy journalist who had just invested heavily in the paper industry and didn't want Hemp as a competitor. So, he commenced the smear campaign with constant lies and horror stories
There is a plethora of industries out there that don't want Cannabis as a competitor. Because it grows fast and makes better products like paper, medicine,clothing and even fuel.
NO, I'm Dave, open the door
Bull@!$%# of course is when people just give up on something cause it is hard....Drugs like this are bad for your health and the health of others. The answer is not to make them legal and more readily available....I don't smoke, I don't drink, I don't have the need to put stupid things in my body to enjoy life....
Uh-oh, Ed. You better not start talking about the problems associated with the weed-goddess MJ. You're going to have her starry-eyed worshipers up in arms, kinda like when you say something bad about someone's religion.
Flame-on, people!
My father told me he used to smoke cannabis until he found out his buddy was spraying it with oven cleaner so his clients would get higher off of it, and that "stepping on it" was a relatively common practice in the 60's/70's.
10 or so years ago I bought a bag from a shady friend of a friend deal, and I could have sworn it was sprayed with windex or some kind of cleaning agent. I think people are a lot smarter about their cannabis now, thanks to the Internet and dispensaries, and this doesn't happen nearly as much anymore.
You probably had been putting away a zip a week of the bad stuff. Cannabis does not cause damage to the nervous system on its own.
@Ed
"...drugs like this..."
You mean drugs you can't handle don't you Ed?
What about the #1 and #2 "Gateway" drugs Ed. You know, tobacco and alcohol. Over 100,000 deaths per year. Tobacco is the only product sold in the US that when used as intended results in death!
You used to smoke tobacco Ed, what was you excuse then? You wern't smarter than everybody else yet back then?
Ed, again just curious. What chronic problems? I have been smoking cannabis sense I broke my neck in my teens playing football ( I am now fixing to cross over the big 60) and quit tobacco, cigarettes and chew, over ten years now for breathing and gum issues and have not had any thing in the way of health issues that I would say is a problem from cannabis. I will say that cannabis is not for everyone but it does help "me" get around with the pains in my neck and back without the brain and body buzz/tingles from the pills that the doctors want me to take.
"What happened Ed? Graduate to drinking?"
Like we didn't see THIS comment coming.
See what I mean, Ed? You violated doper taboo and said something negative (regardless how true) about the ganja goddess. Now you get weak, smoke-filled insults.
Anyone that smokes an ounce a week, is wasting cannabis. You can only get so high. No wonder you were developing problems from it. Your lungs were full of smoke every moment you were awake.
Since there is no physical addition to cannabis, your problem quitting was all mental. You had convinced yourself that you couldn't live without it.
Then to add to your issues, you start smoking cigarettes again? This pretty much says it all. You were too weak willed or minded to stop without continuing to damage your body.
Maybe if you wouldn't have smoked it every hour of the day, you would have a different outlook about it. Instead, you blame it for your own lack of self control. You probably blame smoking cigarettes again on the cannabis too, correct?
What's true? The only thing true, is that smoking an ounce a week is idiotic. He did it to himself. Now he wants to blame his poor decisions on something other than himself.
1038.....I knew a kid who told me if you sprayed your pot with Raid(yeah, bug killer)it would get you higher. I told him he was an idiot. PS I'm not going to school, I'm sick. I have an ear ache. EAR ACHE MY EYE!!!!!!! Trivia: Tommy Chong of Cheech and Chong used to play in a band in Canada called the Vancouvers. Occationally they had a guitarist sit in named Jimmy Hendrix. Early sixties era.
So, what's good for Ed is good for everyone...or else. Classic self righteous personality.
Ed,
The underlying tone of your debate points suggests to me that you don't really enjoy life as much as you say. You speak in absolutes and leave no way back into the conversation. If you apply that tactic to the people important to you in life then I will go further and say that even they are not enjoying life because they have to listen to all the ignorant crap you say.
Nobody said anything about forcing you to drink, eat or smoke anything. You don't drink right? So then stay away from bars and drunks. You don' smoke weed, stay away from where ever the hell they will be smoking it...prob weed bars will start popping up...stf out of them. Trust me, potheads will avoid you too...they would instantly peg you for a buzzkill. It should be ok. Just wear a shirt that says "F--K Potheads" and they will steer clear of you crabass!
La Bama, you first...promise I'll go next....
@glimmmerr:
Actually, it is quite possible to smoke an ounce a week by one's self. I've slipped into that habit on many, many occasions. Especially while smoking lower quality mexican weed that was common in the 70's, so, Ed isn't feeding any BS.
@NYMike:
I both agree & disagree. Heavy, ounce per week smoking is somewhat of a waste, but not entirely. yes there are days where physical tolerance catches up to you, but ease off for a day or so, and the high comes back. Then after a while of 24/7 smoking one get's into a very strange, almost psychedelic zone quite different from the high that the lightweight, every so often users experience. really you have to experience it to know what I'm talking about. It's tough to describe. Of course that, weird 24/7 high isn't very productive, and I had a tendency to isolate from the world once like that. That's why I stopped entirely.
For me, it's all or nothing. as soon as I take a single toke, I want to remain in that state of mind perpetually. For most folks it's not like that though, they hit a little weed, eat a twinkie (guess they will have to find another snack now) then go to sleep. I'm part of a very small minority who becomes obsessed with weed once under the effect.
The major problem of legalizing marijuana has nothing to do with those who smoke it. But it has everything to do with economics and why it was made illegal in the first place. Marijuana, or the hemp plant is an amazing species which has a multitude of uses.It was that threat which still makes it illegal. Remember, the almighty dollar is what matters. Just follow who really stands to lose if hemp were allowed to be legal. In a world where things are not meant to last, hemp is the bad guy.There are about 2,000 varieties.Look at how great hemp is.
The seeds of its plant are the only ones in the world which contains all of the essential fatty acids and amino acids required by the human body.It can also be used to make hemp milk, sprouted, tofu,in pet food,bait for fishing,bird seed.
Then there is the oil which can be used for lamps, food, bio-fuels, cosmetics, skincare, health aids and medicinal purposes.The fiber makes excellent paper products which don't yellow or disintegrate over time, unlike regular tree paper. Also it makes great building and construction materials, hemp plastics and rope making.Imagine the savings in costs if you didn't have to cut down trees, buy so much cement, and saved money in paints and roofing materials by using hemp products.
In textiles and fabrics it far surpasses the cotton plant. Since it is more easily grown in wider climates, doesn't require few pesticides and no herbicides, has fewer problems with pests and is easier to harvest. The threat to the manufacturers of cotton is the real reason hemp was outlawed. This is the billions dollar industry that would be threatened if people started buying clothes that didn't wear out.
The Federal government doesn't want to change its tune and legalize marijuana because it has huge corporations which can't allow their bottom line to be vulnerable. The war on this drug is peanuts compared to the war on a whole industry deeply entrenched. It is like asking the auto industry to stop using oil and start creating electric cars tomorrow. It will never happen. Factories aren't set up to do that. So we Americans will continue to trudge along, wasting taxpayer dollars in vain. It just might take a revolution of a different sort, at the grassroots level, working its way up. After all, even the biggest forest fire has to start with a spark.
Obviously you haven't been in the South lately. Almost all textile mills in America are closed, and cotten is not the king anymore. The textile industry in America is gone along with steel, and . . . well, everything else. The whole American textile industy was outsourced many years ago. Pot is not going to bring that back unless you can find people willing to work for 50 cent an hour. Hmmmm, maybe if they're stoned they will work for that little.
Yes, you can buy hemp products at Wal-Mart. Some folks are still making good on those types of products. Unfortunately it isn't in America at present. We're great at buying. We need to improve on making/manufacturing using this valuable plant material as Windancersong so aptly expressed.
No danger in any type of new manufacturing to take place in AmeriKKa. You know, the once great nation where it's own gov laid it's economy on a golden platter at the feet of the Asians and South Americans all in the name of slave wages?
I didn't vote for that communist SOB!
Druggies both full and partime users only care about their high. Druggies will not care when marijuana permeates our high schools as the thing to do and corrupts our youth. All the non users who supported the druggies on election day have delivered a fatal blow to parents who are struggling to keep their children drug free. Thanks a lot, the druggies could not have done it without you.
Mikey I can assure you that you absolutely do not know anything. I suggest you read post #8 just above yours. Also MJ is widely used now in high schools. Hell we used it in high school and I am no where near a druggie. Get off your high moral horse and realize that MJ in pure form is safe. Alcohol which is illegal has killed millions yet it used legally all over the world. I have never heard of anyone overdosing, killing someone or even stealing when using MJ.
Perhaps you should try it once and see just how safe it is.
I agree with mikeyknows; the proponents of mj have no idea what Pandora's box they are opening on what's left of our culture. I've read many well meaning arguements for it's legalization and I have no doubt that there is some truth in them; but the fact is mj is a recreational drug and the majority of users will be using it for that. Of course that is what will make it irresistable to kids. Also, most people will not be able to grow good pot and will have to get it from someone who can. I have never known a pot smoker that was satisfied with ordinary mj; they always want something much stronger. That fact alone will keep the criminal element alive and well. Legal mj in America is not going to be a seemless, trouble free process, and it will not transform America into an Eden. Quite the opposite.
This is a terrible turn of misrepresentation by egotistic political idiots; not even considiering the many ramifications. It is Illegal. There are many reasons to be truly concerned and i agree with those opposed. I would not want me or my children in an environment where those that were 'stoned' even last year caused harm and injury. Also, now all employment establishments will now have to come up with a
"steadfast' means of drug testing. Would you want your kids bus driver 'stoned'
when he drives the bus???? I cannot begin to imagine the expensive and expansive
region this takes us into; not to mention lawsuits. These misrpresenting political idiots should be immediately dismissed! Sincerely but not lastly, A "STRAIGHT" PENNSYLVANIAN
Mikey, you may be right, but you and many others are still suffering from the reefer madness mentality. If you learned from your history classes about Prohibition you will (hopefully) see that the idea, while it looked good on paper, and appeased all the old ladies shouting about alcohol abuse (using your arguments in fact), was such a dismal failure it was soon repealed.
The black markets it created however are still with us in the form of mafia and other gangs of old men and now younger men in America and Mexico and elsewhere.
mikey ........ that happened in the 70's.
Mikey don't know jack.
Hey Straight,
Show me a police report from any automobile accident ever that was found to be caused by any driver under the effects of pot alone.
Keep looking, there arn't any.
Now go google "School Bus Driver DUI"
Now pull the foot out of your mouth. Or start arguing for Prohibition Reenactment.
To say being high never caused a mva is idiotic. You can make up your own statistics but they are simply BS. A recent study found that it does cause mva's.
http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/health/story/health/story/2012-02-09/Marijuana-users-twice-as-likely-to-cause-car-crash/53031202/1
http://www.webmd.com/mental-health/news/20051201/marijuana-raises-risk-of-fatal-car-crash
Impaired is impaired. How you got there is immaterial. To say driving under the influence of marijuana isn't a problem is idiotic.
rightwing,
Looks to me like you shot your own argument full of holes. Firstly, I agree with you that there are losery stoners out there; as there are geniuses (someone very very close to me who has a 4.2GPA). Chances are that a loser who picks up pot, would have ended up a lose regardless.
To your last point about enforcement: I actually agree with you. But tell me, what kind of enforcement is out there right now when kids go to a dealer to buy it? Last time I looked dealers don't card you.
..holes is just the word i wanted to use to descrbe this whole situation! Getting impaired 'legally' is not an option!
Straight what do you mean getting impaired legally is not an option? I can go to the liqueur store right now and be impaired within the hour legally. It may not be pot but definitely impaired.
Ok people..I can see you need me here....
I have been nursing for almost 20 yrs in various avenues: vascular, thoracic, trauma ICU and now OR. I have admitted HUNDREDS of patients with all sorts of things in their system...cold medicine people, very bad by the way. all kinds of injuries from MVA, falls (yes off the bar stool), fights, saw and other equipment injuries.
Here is the good part so pay attention. Do you know how many of these accidents were from ALCOHOL? Almost all.
Do you know how many we're from POT ( nothing else in system)? ZERO...absolutely zero.
....If they had pot in their system and were admitted with these injuries, they were also LEGALLY DRUNK or on some other drug (and yes over the counter can be very dangerous, heed warnings on labels)
I have worked in level 1 trauma centers my whole career and we get the worst cases, and my job entailed me admitting many people from the ER to our unit, so yes, I have first hand knowledge of this.
I also on a different post some time ago, ran into a rehab nurse for over 25 yrs and they have ZERO beds on their unit for pot addiction. But HALF the unit is for alcohol. The other half, hard drugs. She supports legalization.
My anesthesiologists could care less if someone smokes pot. However, alcohol, cigarettes and OTC meds are VERY much tracked as they could cause problems in surgery. In fact they usually giggle a little about it and I just say "well he's out of luck here today cuz I left my stash at home". Which is the truth...but they have no idea :P
If you don't believe me on the effects of alcohol, look up WET BRAIN and ROTOPRONE bed...awesome things I say...good luck with that.
And I myself, would prefer if my daughters smoked pot instead of drinking alcohol. I have taught them moderation in life on everything is key. One can getting addicted to shopping, gambling, alcohol, prescription drugs, hard street drugs.....POT ISNT PHYSICALLY ADDICTING.....psychologically you may want it, but you will not go into DTs, rob someone to buy drugs (unless that is NORMALLY your demeanor) , or go into seizures from withdrawal. And FYI! the DTs stand for "delirium and tremor". We actually have a scale that we grade the at risk patient and monitor their tremors, orientation, demeanor and vitals. If they reach a certain score, they are medicated with ativan or Librium. Hmmmm. We don't have anything like that for pot smokers.
Trust me folks, don't worry about stoned drivers causing accidents, the drunk ones should be your concern. The stoned drivers are already driving and causing no problems.
In 25 yrs of smoking pot, NOT ONCE have I blacked out or lost my inhibitions where I make choices I would not normally do.
Rightwing...I agree with almost very piece of your post except how it kept lazy kids from Realizing potentials and they continued being losers.
They were LOSERS...pot is an excuse for not working toward goals and if they weren't using pot, they would find another vice to blame it on, gambling, alcohol, women, hard drugs, shopping, eating....
I smoked as well through college while raising two kids under age four, working 32 hours/week and full time nursing classes, I graduated with honors. The differenceis we were not lazy and thus did not become losers. Drive and commitment come from within and they apparently didn't have drive.
The ONLY problem I have with making pot legal...Big Pharm getting their dirty fingers in it.
Actually, Big Pharma already has their fingers in it...Marinol being one example.
Big Pharma already has..it's called Marinol
Making pot legal would take Big Pharm out of the biz. They are the only ones right now that get to legally sell it, albiet in pill form.
You can come up with a million good reasons to legalize pot but reason one is to free up resources and prison cells so we as a nation can doubledown on the real drug trafficing problems. Of course this would require the states to sack up and collectively tell Fed to piss off and take the power to fight the real drug problem back. Clearly the Fed has shown it is incapable of winning a war on drugs and does not really have the desire for it to end. Since it is the Fed and Big Pharm that are the profiteers from the current and always perpetual "drug war" structures. Hell, even prisons have figured out how to turn a profit out of all this nonsense.
Only a non-toker could have some BS answer to, "How can you abuse pot?"
Anyone who thinks there isn't a legitimate answer that question is likely a walking answer to it.
It is like everything else in life...moderation. If you lack the ability to restrain from every stupid impulse you have in life then something other than weed will most likely be what kills you.
The ONLY problem I have with making pot legal: Big Pharma getting their dirty fingers in it.
Really?? That is all you see..?? I guess you have a pretty narrow view then. I still see my brother and his child who were killed by a driver that was stoned....
Ed,
Sorry for your loss but just like not everyone who drinks, drinks and drives, not everyone who smokes pot does so and drives. I can understand why you feel the way you do losing family like that, I might feel that way myself if it happened to me but if we can't take away everything that has been involved in a tragedy.
Not everyone picks up a gun and kills people with it either. Should we make killing with a gun legal cause not everyone does it??
no Ed, according to your logic (or lack thereof) we should make guns illegal because someone allegedly shot someone else with one
Oh I call BS Ed. Your brother and "his child" (that would be your niece or nephew, and thats what non liars call the child of their brother).
Bullsh!t Ed. Your brother and "his child" were never killed by a driver that was only on pot alone. If such a case ever existed, it would be at the forefront of every anti-pot campaign.
It also would have been the very first thing you posted this morning. But its not. Its a lie. That you just made up. Liar.
ed no body is saying make killing with pot legal so your analogy is foolish.
You simply don't like drugs or alcohol and you think everyone should live by your guidelines. Not gonna happen.
You have a good day.
Now we know why Ed dose not like Pot,he thinks this is what killed his brother. Sorry for your loss, but it was stupid that killed you brother not the cannabis. If could just as easy been some dumb a$$ who spilled their coffee and caused a car wreck. Your mind is foggy with hate. Control your hate and move on when you can. Again sorry for your loss, but don't blame cannabis when it was someone being stupid.
I believe Ed's logic is that simply saying it's legal, have fun, is not responsible. It needs to be regulated as are other abusable substances. I would add that, unlike alcohol for example, the product is inherently problematic given that it is public, entering the air surrounding the smoker. That's a big problem because it denies the right of everyone else not to inhale marijuana smoke. The pro freedom to toke folks don't get to be hypocrites on this in their insistence on being allowed to smoke you must therefore protect those who wish not to inhale. Therefore smoke all you want but contain the smoke to your person.
Spare me the predictable - it's not harmful, it's such a small amount, etc., and other stupidity. There are dangers associated with exposure to marijuana smoke. If you deny or debate this you are in denial or a selfish jerk. Freedom is not just for minorities; non-smokers also like the right to choose what they put into their lungs. Again, contain the smoke to your person and you can smoke yourself to death if you like, but don't put that into the air of the general population. Non-smokers do not want to breath it in, or have our children exposed to it, while we go about our daily lives walking in our own neighborhoods, to school, the grocery store, down the street, or in our yard or home, etc.
With freedom comes responsibility to your fellow man.
Actually, It IS harmfull of course, everyone knows that, you just rationalize cause you want to use..it is a smoke, usually, from something you burn, then inhale into your lungs..it is NOT good for you, and it DOES harm your body....It is a typick reaction for those that denyb things to call others liars.,it changes nothing. John is still dead, and his child, who was not related to me, is also dead. dead cause someone was abusing a drug that was not needed ....
Ed,
So if people eat it, drink it, or vaporize it, then you would be cool with it being legal?
Somehow, I think your answer will be no. But then again it is quite obvious that all you are looking for is an argument to maintain the status quo; which, by the way, contrary to your perception, will not make MJ magically disappear.
@plan, you mean sort of like not being exposed to tobacco smoke? What makes you think the "No Smoking" signs and standards wouldn't also apply to marijuana smokers?
Ed:
How? Show me the evidence of the harm that pot has done to someone's body. Since everyone knows it, you should be able to answer my question right off the top of your head, right? Sure, it may not be good for some people because of their own physiology (like you), but if that were the case for everyone wouldn't that have been a major headline for the anti-pot crowd?
@Enough
Yes, like tobacco smoke and I would hope that at a bare minimum that they would apply but given the fact that people are allowed to smoke just about anywhere they like, which includes pretty much everywhere that most other people congregate or pass through (parks, storefronts, parking garages, sidewalks, beaches, neighborhoods, etc.), the current rules are inadequate.
We're not against tobacco products, just the smoke.
Hillary just gave 1.3 billion $$$ of our tax money to the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt. She could use a toke.
And she also gave 3 billion to Israel. It's called the Camp David Accords.
Why not just Legalize and find out finally if the world comes to an end. Tired of all the BS !
warren,
I'm with you. By the way, it has been legal for medical use in CA for over 15 years, I've yet to see zombies roaming the streets (except for downtown LA, but something tells me that is more due to alcohol, crack and meth).
Making drugs like pot will only lead to more, bigger, and expensive problems for the country unless we foirst solve the issue of people getting addicted to things. It will not turn out to be good for anyone, or make any net money for us, not when the problems from addiction or loss in productivity are factored in. It will just be like drinking, more deaths on the road, more people in the hospital, more people in jail from problems from it's abuse. Just because there are some people that can handle addictive drugs that give artificial effects of pleasure, does not mean they are ok....It will always be better to just go through life straight, in a reality based condition. Making the drugs legal is not the answer. Finding and preventing addictions is....
@ed why is everything viewed in terms of MONEY. It would seem to me that the addiction to MONEY could be the root of all problems.
Government constantly issues Licenses to do illegal things for a fee.
And I suppose you think that altering the brain physiology to produce artificial effects is a GOOD thing?? If humans were meant to get high, they would be born with needles in their arms.. I don't think everything should be viewd with regard to money., I am simply addressing the argument that pot should be made legal to make or save the country money...It will not do neither....
ed,
If humans were meant to get high, they would be born with needles in their arms
Catchy phrase. Here's another
If humans were meant to wear clothes we'd be born with them on.
Or another
If humans were meant to fly, we'd be born with wings.
Need I go on with more to show you the foolishness of your saying?
I'm guessing that you don't approve of drinking either as that alters the brain.
I do not think drinking is a good idea either....It is also a drug....and of course, you can go naked if you want...good luck with that in cold climates Wearing clothes is just good common sense. Taking drugs just makes you a dope . If anyone is being foolish it is you, equating things like wearing clothes with taking mind altering drugs. My brother was not killed because the other driver was wearing clothes. He and his child died because the other driver was stoned...Afterwards he could not even remember where he was going....
First off I am so sorry about your family. I've had a few friends killed in collisions due to drunk drivers.
But I must, gently, say Ed really - solve the 'problem' of why people get addicted to things? Things like money? Or how about coffee? How about automobiles? Television? Mobile phones? Texting? Central heating?
Meditation produces altered brain physiology also. Care to try to criminalize that?
From my viewpoint you're biting off a lot.
Yes, all things. Wouldn't that be great....You can make silly replies all you want, it will never make drugs a good thing.. Putting things in your body to try and make yourself feel good, when they are not needed is the really silly approach... Equating things like meditation to what I said is just the sort of stupid spin that people always try to do to rationalise faulty behavior...good luck with that
As has been shown in the last decade, drunk driving can be reeled in and cut WAY down by taking it seriously and getting drunks off the road. Legal pot smokers driving stoned can be controlled in the same way.
Whether or not you think pot is bad or good: There has been absolutely NO success banning it. So Ed, once again I invite you to propose an effective way of banning it. Because the current plan is a joke.
""Making drugs like pot will only lead to more, bigger, and expensive problems for the country unless we foirst solve the issue of people getting addicted to things""
Marijuana has the same addiction level as coffee,,so do we ban all substances that are addictive?
""It will not turn out to be good for anyone, or make any net money for us, not when the problems from addiction or loss in productivity are factored in""
Loss of productivity,,what a farce,,how much loss of productivity is created by putting more people in prison than any other country on earth? How about the millions of people under-employed because of drug screening and arrest records? How much productivity and poverty does that create?
""It will just be like drinking, more deaths on the road,""
Every simulator testing of subjects while high on marijuana show little to no impairment,,ALL. The drug czar rants against drugged driving every time he gets near a microphone but statistics and clinical evidence does not support his doom speaking. His favorite quote is that driving high on marijuana doubles your chance of being in an accident,,and that may be true but so does driving 5 mph over the speed limit. Since both double your chance of being in an accident and both put other drivers at the same risk,then fines and enforcement should be equal for both.
""more people in the hospital, more people in jail from problems from it's abuse.""
Legalization removes the jail issue and people are not in the hospital because of marijuana use,,the statistics prohibitionist quote about emergency room admittance and pot are skewed because a person that fills out the entry paperwork reports to a doctor that they used marijuana recently does not signify that the use of the drug is what brought them to the hospital. Marijuana is the most used illicit drug and it stands to reason that it will be on more entry forms than any other drug.
You should really research an issue before supporting or defending it,,your comment points out the effectiveness of government propaganda and skewed statistics.
I think the joke is humans that think that making things like this MORE available will solve problems. Less availabilty is always better. I don't believe that just giving up and throwing in the towel is ever the right appproach.
You can spout all the silly spin you want, but it doesn't change the fact that pot is not sugar, it is not coffee, it is a harmful drug and it is NOT good for you....
""You can spout all the silly spin you want, but it doesn't change the fact that pot is not sugar, it is not coffee, it is a harmful drug and it is NOT good for you...""
You are entitled to your opinion ED and legalization would solve a lot of societies problems,,such as the racial application of drug laws.
We are not trying to make pot mandatory and myself,,I hope you never learn the grace of the lady,,all we are trying to do is take the pot out of unregulated criminals hands that don't check ID's and move it into an outlet that does. Your way insures children easy access to marijuana,,,are you a drug dealer selling pot to school kids? Because you sure are arguing for keeping them in business.
Like alcohol.....It might have been neccessary, but it has not been good for people...specially those killed by drunk drivers
Unfortunately that is not for you to decide. It is up to the people and given the polls and legislation as of late, I would say the people are speaking loud and clear.
Take your example, coffee. That is also not good for you in large doses but it is legal and many folks consume coffee on a regular basis. Alcohol is legal and it kills FAR more people a year than most other substances, a close second? Prescription drugs... and those are all legal as well.
Sorry, but your argument fails and no longer is relevant. I'm sorry for your loss concerning your brother and his son. I don't think anyone should be driving under ANY mind altering substance legal or not and anyone who does should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law.
It might not be mine to decide, but i can ertainly cast my vote, which is all I am doing...You are welcome to YOUR opinion also, but that is all it is, and probably effected by drugs....LOL
yes Ed... and your opinion is probably affected by dishonesty and ignorance. According to your logic, the entire pharmaceutical industry should be banned and all pain killers should be taken off the market. There are far more folks strung out (addicted) to those than ever will be people who are adversely affected by marijuana. Oh and I guess you think we should bring back prohibition for alcohol, along with putting folks who distill the stuff away for many years in prisons your tax dollars can help build? I almost forgot "LOL"
Claborne,
Ed is a troll, and he is a clueless troll at that. Don't waste your time on the keyboard with the troll.
And the rest of you are drug abusing angels LOL LOL LOL
MAN, this guy (Ed) is soooo brainwashed. Traffic avenger fla. got it right:
Ignore the troll.
I think you had better, try to limit the access to children I see kids everywhere in San Jose smoking pot, and the fools believe it better then alcohol yet those that have overcome addiction know any drug, stops emotional maturity so in the future we will have more children murdering family members because they are not thinking of the consequences, in fact maturity is a sign you think of consequences, but we have a immature nation, thinking as if soiling our children makes us better parents, while the poor families teach their children to think of their future journey, and how they reach their future goals, we are failing to be good parents, while other countries seem to know how to teach respect, and pride.
Pot has been illegal for 80 years,,the thousands of years before that it was legal and available to all,,it makes you wonder how mankind survived all that killing and marijuana crazed people doesn't it.
There are a lot of things that have ben around for a long time. That does not mean they are good for you..It is a DRUG. It alters your mind to put you in a nonreality based condition. It is NOT good for you...period.
SUGAR kills more people than Pot so put that in your pipe and smoke it !
I don't use a pipe...I suppose you do though so your comments are tainted. Go back to your drug induced stupor, but don't assume we all will follow you...
I do agree though that too much sugar is not good for you. However, I don't see that as a rational argument to make MORE bad things legal....
Ed, you really should be questioning why marijuana is illegal, not why it should be legalized. Marijuana is not illegal to protect people, take a look at the history of why it's illegal in the USA.
I was not trying to state that it should be either legal OR illegal. I was just trying to point out that making it legal to either make money for the country, or to save money on enforcement is futile in mt opinion. It is a drug, it is not good for you when used recreationally, it will cost the government more than it makes, and it will just spread more drug abuse...just like alcohol does. The problem from all things like this is addiction. THAT is the problem to solve.
Ed, if you take the bucket off your head you will see that it is already in every state, city, town and neighborhood. The "spreading" deal is already far behind us. Law enforcement has made NO inroads into stopping it. Using it is a personal decision, and the users are responsible for their own misery. Unfortunately for people with your mindset, it is NOT an addictive substance. Like ice cream, it is not addictive but may be psychologically craved. Ice cream is available everywhere, and if you're quitting it can be a problem. But a personal problem. The law can ban Ice Cream, but F them, because I know how to make my own. Good or bad is one discussion, Legal or banable is another.
Argue that is isn't good for you, I understand. Pot, I mean, not Ice cream. But we aren't discussing the evils or ills of smoking pot. We are discussing the legalization, and the effect of prohibition of it.
Funny how those that argue for the use of drugs get so silly....but my brother, who died cause someone was stoned wouldn't have thought it silly at all
Terribly sorry for your loss ed but I would wager that the driver at fault was impaired by more than just pot.
Boiling it all down, it's a personal choice to use it or not use it. It's not for everyone. But for you to make decisions on my behalf or for my own good is tantamount to dictatorship. It should be just as legal as booze and tobacco. Two more substances that are left to personal choice. Both are highly addictive moreso than weed. If a person uses weed on a regular basis and stops, they don't suffer any withdrawal symptoms.
Unlike the detox sickness one goes through when they stop ingesting booze. And Cigarettes? Nicotine is more addictive than Heroin but is a legal substance that kills. Booze and cigarettes deserve placement on the schedule 1 list far more than pot does. If Pot were legalized, controlled and taxed like tobacco and alcohol, there would be no catastrophic failure of your utopia. It would merely make upstanding citizens out of the felons created by the Federal Government and their freedom robbing laws.
Ed, let me ask you... Would you deny medicine to a person suffering from back problems who can't tolerate prescription pain meds? Or someone sickened by Chemotherapy who can't eat without puking?
These laws against Cannabis cause alot of suffering amongst your neighbors.
In closing. Guess who holds the patent on medical Marijuana....
That's correct. The Federal Government of The United States.
Stop lying Ed.
Isn't it odd how those that don't want to believe the truth, claim so vehemently that others are lying LOL LOL
This Ed guy needs to be banned from Newsvine for spreading lies and hate. He's like a lobbyist, get rid of him.
Ed, there is NO truth to anything you are saying. Just to give you an example. You are like someone claiming that God created the Earth is seven days because is says so in the bible. Just because you believesomething to be true, does not make it so. No amount of false scare articles about marijuana causing testicular cancer and slow brain development is going to change the fact that HEMP in almost every single form is a benefit to society through manufacturing textiles and medicine. You have a demon in you, ED, and its time to let it free.
Ed I suggest you do some reading into the neurobiology of addiction. Maybe then you can maybe begin to actually understand what addiction is because your post imply that you have no understanding about the subject.
I think that the med MJ industry helped Colorado get through the recession. My son in law started growing for the dispenseries out here, and at 30 years old, he is able to provide a good middle class lifestyle for my daughter and three grandkids. At first it freaked my out, but now I realize how great that is. It is done very professionally and the product is great. There are varieties for all different purposes. I take one hit a night of a variety that helps me with anxiety, and it helps me run my own million dollar small business. Yes, I love my home state, but please the winters are too rough for you to move here. Take care
That's great, and highlights one of the biggest problems with marijuana laws - here in FL your son-in-law would be looking at 15 years in prison, even though all he's doing is running a local farming business and providing for his family. It's time to get rid of these ridiculous laws that benefit no-one.
I guess you would't mind if your 3 grandchildren use marijuana too.
Why would he even think of giving pot to his grandchildren?
I'm all for legalization but there have to be restrictions like not driving under the influence or selling it to minors, etc. Kids should and need to wait til they are adults to partake of the weed otherwise they might hinder their brain development.
What a dumb ass question.
We,the people have asked on every public forum for our legislators and President to address this issue,,we have had the most supported petitions submitted to the Whitehouse and they still refuse to even debate it.
Now 2 states have legalized marijuana with a vote by the people,,because politicians refuse to engage.
How much longer can this continue before America realizes something stinks in DC,,and it ain't the pot they are smoking,
Oh I think the people are starting to realize it. In fact I believe most already have thus the move from Washington and Colorado. And those wouldn't be the only states that have told the feds to go shove it. Take medical marijuana. Close to 20 States now have it on their books. And that number is expected to grow.
And even if we take marijuana out of the subject there are still plenty of more States that have in one way or another told the Feds to shove it.
The last time I can recall in our history that this form of behavior took place was before the civil war. Not saying that's where we're at, but it is CLEAR that the people no longer accept their government and that the government is now in fear of its own people due to the direct violation of our Constitutional rights (e.g. Patriot Act and NDAA).
Trust me, this is going to be one heck of an interesting century.
It IS pretty clear that another battle over States rights is coming in the not to distant future. Lets just hope that it is move civilized this time. This country has always been divided on one issue or another since its inception, but logic has usually prevailed and we made compromises. With the one glaring exception of the Civil War. When neither side budges, IE.State or Federal Powers then our system of government begins a rapid decline. These choices by states (rightfully so in my humble opinion) to put laws into place that are in direct violation of federal laws is the beginning of a movement. Its not just pot, but heath care, immigration, even education. We are in very fragile times, lets hope logic prevails. More on topic, yes it should be legal and well regulated, like cigarettes and alcohol.
Perhaps Ed,,but how do you know if the driver that "accidentally" killed your brother was impaired. Teh presence of marijuana in a persons system does not signify impairment,so blaming marijuana for his death is a false closure,,you need to do more research and quit hating people that are different than you.
Stupid move Washington and Colorado. How productive is a pot head? Not very. How do pot heads get their money for pot? About 1% actually work and pay for it themselves, and the others well they steal for it. So lets see because pot is now legal, drug dealers will probably not decrease the amount of a joint or a brick because demand will now go up so they will still get their money but they will have to pay taxes which means about 1 out of 10 drug dealers will probably legitimately apply for that almighty tax stamp while the other 9 continue selling illegally. The legimitate pot dealer will stay open for a few months until they start horning in on the drug dealers business and well we all know how honest those drug dealers are and we all know how they handle rival dealers. Yah, I am gonna say this was one of Washington and Colorado's stupidest move ever and I look for the only money generated in these states is through Court fines.
A better solution was legalizing shooting the drug dealer that sold to your children--now that's real good sense law :)
How productive? For starters do you enjoy using the technology you have to post such asinine, ignorant, uneducated statements? Because if you do, the software created to do so... was created by a pot head. There is a list so long about folks (who were or still are pot heads) in far greater positions than yourself that have contributed to mankind's progression that even if I were to produce it your ability to conform logical, comprehensive thoughts would elude you to believe it wasn't true.
And drug dealers will not decrease the amount of a joint or a brick? First off what is a brick and please, post the data you have to support your claim. If you can't do so then your statement is asinine. And let's see, oh yeah you want to pass a law that will shoot the dealer. So now you're advocating murder without due process.
I'm not even going to get into a discussion with you because clearly your post alone dictates your level of education. You have no idea what you're talking about. This is much more than simply making one of the most benign substances (compared to alcohol) legal and more to do with telling the feds to go shove it. In the meantime here is a quote that maybe someone of your "stature" might understand. Though that's a long shot...
"The prestige of government has undoubtedly been lowered considerably by the prohibition law. For nothing is more destructive of respect for the government and the law of the land than passing laws which cannot be enforced. It is an open secret that the dangerous increase of crime in this country is closely connected with this."
- Albert Einstein quote on Hemp
We smoke pot so we will become as lazy as Michael Phelps,as stupid as Carl Sagan and as unproductive as Steve Jobs.
Claborne - Exactly.
And perhaps as criminal as the guy that killed my brother....
Agreed, Claborne. Well put.
Borderlands, a "brick" is a kilo (2.2 pounds). Pressed into brick shape for shipment.
Ed,
I am truly sorry for your loss. I'm not sure I believe your assertion that it was purely MJ related, though.
It is clear, though, that this has certainly given you an "axe to grind". And because of this, it is your opinion that everyone else should accede to your viewpoint.
But, let me ask you this. If your brother had been killed by a drunk driver, would you be on this forum advocating the return to alcohol Prohibition? Because you know that Prohibition did not work, cannot work and will not work. Alcohol was still quite available during Prohibition and succeeded in only funding organized crime and corruption of government politicians and bureaucrats. The elimination of Prohibition did not cause the decline of Western Civilization, but succeeded in removing a huge source of income for organized crime.
The Prohibition of MJ is causing the same problems. It's elimination would be the same as the repeal of the Volstead Act. It will not cause irreparable damage to the country.
As for your brother, we all face those same risks today, regardless of what Prohibitions are in effect. That is a simple fact of life. And no laws can change that. I would imagine that the person that killed your brother paid for his crimes (after the fact, of course). But that is all a law can do.
Nobody has ever died from pot. So, everything else will kill ya. Hell, even being married will kill ya.
My brother and his child would disagree. They were both killed in an auto accident caused by a stoned driver....
Sorry for your loss Ed. My brother was near death when his heart almost gave out after smoking pot as a teenager. They thought perhaps the pot was laced with something else but it was 100% pot. Seeing the condition my brother was in and the look on my parent's face, I vowed right then and there never to partake in stupidity by smoking pot myself. As with Ed's loss, a lot of motor vehicle accidents are caused by drivers under the influence of marijuana--however, most law enforcement agencies don't have the equipment to do a pot test on people and most of them have refused to educate their officers on how to detect a driver under the influence of pot--it is not like a breathalyzer. Pot kills!
Your brother's heart almost gave out from smoking pot? Sorry about your brother but guess what, he would be the first case of that ever occurring. Did your brother have heart disease to begin with? Because there are no reported cases that I know of where pot was the direct result of someone's heart failing.
As far as accidents caused by "pot heads" Ed, sorry for you loss. I think that anyone who is driving under the influence of mind altering substances should be held to the same prosecution standards as alcohol. That includes prescription drugs as well. Every year over 30,000+ Americans die from the direct use of Alcohol many, which are accident related. And that number isn't far off of those who die from prescription drugs as well. Fact is, the data out there right now shows that the "legal" drugs are FAR more dangerous than marijuana. And that is a fact.
It will be interesting to see the data come out in Washington and Colorado for 2013. If the data remains the same, then the anti-marijuana advocates will have nothing left to stand on and we will see States left and right adopting the legalization for marijuana however, if it changes dramatically then we will see the end to any form of legalization probably for good.
Anyway you look at it, when you talk about using a drug for recreational use, it is NOT a good thing for humans to do.
Really? Then why have we made a plethora of "legal" drugs available for humans to do? Case in point the pharma industry.
Where you aware that the Pharma industry has a synthetic form of THC in pill form? Did you know that they have lobbied rigorously just like the timber industry including certain federal agencies upon Capitol Hill to keep marijuana illegal?
Here's some insight, it has nothing to do with the best interest for the American people and everything to do with money.
Marijuana is now legal in close to 20 States for medicinal purposes. The data is overwhelming in how it has actually helped people. I would inquire that you look into that data a little further.
Tobacco kills. How many times have you read about someone veering off the road and killing someone because they dropped their friggin' cigarette and bent over to retrieve it? Or died because they caught their bed on fire. How about the state trooper in Ky that killed a 19 year old girl because of "inattention" crossed the center line, and he's still working. Sorry Ed, but I don't believe the statement that the driver didn't even remember where he was going, because of pot. I'm not sure I believe your statement at all really. A lot of knee jerkers on here with made up bulldooky to bolster their bias. I don't believe the "heart gave out because of pot" story either. Can't believe everything you read on the internet.
Hey Ed, would you mind posting a link pointing the way to a published report regarding that accident? I'm guessing it was in the local paper?
Drugs are not good for you..Most legal drugs have so many side effects that it is obvious that even they have a lot of problems. We do all sorts of things that are bad for us, then take drugs to fix it....We take all sorts of drugs for heart disease, yet it is still killing us. We made alcohol legal and drunks kill while driving every day. My own brother was killed by a stoned man who could not even remember where he was going....Drugs are not really good for us. We just use them as as crutches..
I play hockey with a chronic pot smoker - can't stop smoking it. Shows up for games stoned, occasionally lights up in the locker room after games. Reeks of the stuff. Has said he's done it in front of his kids, and that he'd explain to them when they got older. DRIVES red-eyed and stoned.
I am not for or against it. My question is, why? I mean, is it really that good that you need it in your life somehow? Don't get me wrong, in college I partook, but NEED it? Hell no.
My only hope is that, the pot smokers don't get all chest-pumpy and go crazy in public with it to prove a point. Respect it...be mature. Everything in moderation.
Ed, the guy that ran his car into your family members killed them, the pot did not kill them.
I agree with you,Rosie! I wonder if regular anti-smoking laws (applied to tobacco products) will be applied to smoking pot. I hate to be around ANY kind of smoke! Unless it's a BBQ or fireplace,mmmmm! And the second hand pot smoke gives me a headache!
Ed, you should probably disassociate Marijuana and the term "drug". It might help you sleep at night.
"Ed, the guy that ran his car into your family members killed them, the pot did not kill them."
tburnswhenipee (my, what a thoughtful screen name), if a drunk plows his car into your loved ones and kills them, please be sure to ask your lawyer to NOT mention "alcohol" in court, because the alcohol (in your little world) obviously had nothing to do with their deaths.
And Ryan O'L, if aspirin is classified as a drug, then pot most certainly IS a drug too. You can equate it to peppermint candy if you wish, but that kind of denial (shared by itburnswhenipee) says volumes about the maturity of many of those who want pot legalized. It may not be addictive like heroine, but the lot of you sure SOUND like addicts, desperate to get your "fix", and willing to say and believe anything to make it happen.
Address Correction....IcenineCo vacationing in Wa.
screw the feds!!
go ahead...I wouldn't want to...never know what those politicians have been doing...er, besides screwing everyone in the country!
If the government doesn't want to make tax dollars off marijuana, so be it. The only corporations who will benefit are the electric companies as gro-lamps take a lot of power.
The government will not really make any money, not when all the problems associated with it are also factored in.
why don't you name all these problems? you mean like the problems with alcohol and tobacco, where the vast majority of selling price is tax? get real , mr. dinosaur
I think all the people killed by drunk drivers, or those that die from lung cancer would disagree with you.
Ed - Let' see your data on how lung cancer is directly caused by marijuana. Then I would like to see the same data when a vaporizer is used.
Go ahead, I'll wait.
I was referring to the comment about tobacco use....
Data, data, data. My brother was killed from a stoned guy driving. Enough data for you??
Again sorry for your loss, but no... considering that Alcohol takes far more lives per year than marijuana ever has I would say that data doesn't even compare. And Alcohol is legal. Still waiting to see your data on lung cancer is directly caused by marijuana.
Again, sorry for your loss.
It was a long time ago,but again, the comment about cancer was referring to the post about tobacco. Personally, though even though there might not be data about it, I would think that the stronger tars in pot couldn't really be good for your lungs either I don't see how taking any kind of smoke from something that is burning into your lungs could be good for you........My point about alcohol though is that making a substance legal does not really solve problems, it just creates different ones....We tried making alcohol illegal and that was rejected by the people, but making other drugs legal to follow that lead will only cause more problems. it is nopt the answer. The REAL problem is the problem of addiction. That is the problem to address...not mnaking drugs legal
if the issue is gay rights to legal marriage, Ed would most likely have a sister who died at the hands of a crazed lesbian, on their wedding night. Ed's a troll folks... ignore him
I don't have a sister....I also, now, don't have a brother....Yes, ignore the truth, deny the facts, keep using your drugs.... Funny how the guy that wants people to be clean from drugs, healthy and alive is the bad guy and the liar, and those that want to leagalize drugs that harm the body and mind, are the real truth sayers and saviors of all mankind....Ya sure, whatever You are all so full of crap
Did ed ever post that newspaper story about the death of his brother and 'the son of his brother'?
Ed, posting the same thing in every thread...almost like he's stoned. You've made your point, Ed, but it lacks merit and is clouded by emotion rather than informed with logic and reason.
In high school I was riding in a pickup with a freind who was in his early 20's and was stoned on MJ. He was NOT alert! It DOES affect your motor skills! That is why people like to smoke it, it mellows you out and can shut down your reaction times. I never rode with him again! We almost went off the road! Now, alcohol is definetly worse, don't get me wrong, but stoned driving isn't safe,either! I believe Ed. Treat MJ like alcohol, serve it at a designated place, a bar for example, not everyone wants to breathe in MJ smoke anyway, just like tobacco smoke.
We advertised for a "no smoking inside" housemate once and got a nice fellow who told us after he moved in that he smoked pot. He wanted to smoke in his room, but we asked him to smoke outside, as per our ad. This guy talked and talked about pot, his rights, the evil "system" that denied him "harmless enjoyment", etc. He told us "facts" like "No one has ever died because of pot use!" to support his wish for legalization. Then he went out of his way to prove that it was an obsession with him. He'd spend hours practically making love to it, playing with it, grading it, putting it in jars, admiring it, etc. He'd have friends visit, they'd smoke outside, then come in talk in ways that made it clear that not all brain neurons were firing. This housemate rode his bike while smoking pot too, on busy city streets. Nice guy - but irresponsible in many ways, always in la la land. I'm fine with legalizing pot - with restrictions, as with alcohol - but the thought of even MORE "altered" people being added to the big free for all that we call "modern life" is disconcerting. Whether drunk, high, or just naturally addled, our streets and sidewalks aren't safer with the likes of them.
Here I go ignoring my own, and other's, advice in ignoring the troll...
Ed:
So, your solution is to address the issues with addiction.
Do you think because someone uses a drug they automatically have a problem with addiction?
Do you think you can form your perfect utopia of a drug free world by solving the addiction issue?
Isn't that your real objective to get everyone off of drugs and live a straight and narrow life such as yours?
Do you really think you could actually achieve that goal considering drug use has been around mankind for thousands of years?
Do you really think Prohibition is the way to go, the solution, the means to an end?
Do you hold any responsibility for the thousands of people who have lost their lives because of the U.S. war on drugs you seem to be so quick to support?
Do you think everyone who smokes pot is irresponsible as the person who decided to drive under the influence that killed your family members?
Did you know there was a university study done in California that tried to show the damage from smoking pot on your lungs but actually discovered that pot inhibits lung cancer cell growth?
Just some questions I was curious about.
Hey Barb210 is that your age, where did you get your facts 1930 ?
ok...lessee......gay marriage is ok.....borrowing billions from China is ok....running multi-trillion dollar debt is ok....
.....a congress that is pretty much worthless..ok to re-elect......giviving driver's Licenses to illegals...ok
but weed makes you a felon?????? the federal government is retarded
No they are not. Everything they do is in effect from pandering to the very few who have bought and paid for them. Namely, the global elitists. And that's what it's really ALL about. Period.
I stand corrected...the US government is not retarded.....they are criminally indifferent to the well being of US Citizens
In other words, they are our own worst enemy and you are exactly right on that.