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Subscribe to RSSOfficials within the U.S. military are actively targeting over-boozing troops at home and abroad, but addiction specialists and service members say binge drinking remains as rampant as ever inside the armed services.
Among the new initiatives to stem the problem: The Marines, starting next year, will give random breathalyzer tests to Corps members; the Air Force and Army curbed some overnight liquor sales for U.S. military personnel in Germany; and American service members in Japan were barred from leaving their residences after consuming more than one adult beverage.
The restrictions seem to have been independently created by brass within each branch — for example, the new rules for service members in Japan follow the October sexual assault of an Okinawa woman allegedly carried out by two U.S. sailors. Still, the fresh regulations arise three months after a study commissioned by the Department of Defense found that binge drinking by active-duty troops now constitutes "a public health crisis," noting as well that drunken soldiers were cited as a problem as far back as the Revolutionary War.
"But we can do better," said Dr. Charles P. O’Brien, chairman of the panel that authored the report and director of the Center for Studies of Addiction at the University of Pennsylvania. "We have a lot of research, a lot of medication, and a lot of techniques that have been developed over the years. We don’t have to be stuck in the old ways of handling things.
"We found, though, that in the whole Army, there’s only one doctor who's trained in addiction medicine. This is a specialty where we need more people and they're not there. So, most people are not getting treated with evidence-based medicine," O'Brien told NBC News. The study was issued by the Washington, D.C.-based Institute for Medicine.
Worse, O'Brien said he has learned — from emails he received in recent days from active-duty personnel — that one of the study's most simple suggestions has not been implemented: that the military's health system, TRICARE, alter its rules and allow substance-abusing service members to be treated with anti-addiction medications like Suboxone.
"We met a general who is on Suboxone but they (military doctors) are not letting other people have it," O'Brien said. "It's ridiculous ... When we briefed (military leaders in September), they expressed interest in following our recommendations. But, so far, I don't have any concrete evidence that anything has happened."
NBC News asked the Department of Defense to list which, if any, of the panel's recommendations have been installed to date.
"The Department of Defense appreciates the hard work of the Institute of Medicine in assessing substance abuse programs and policies in the Military Health System," Cynthia O. Smith, a DoD spokeswoman, responded in an email. "We are in the process of analyzing their findings and recommendations, but most importantly, we want to do the right thing for the Service member. If there are areas in need of improvement, then we will work to improve those areas. The health and well-being of our Service members is paramount."
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The agency has a stated policy to "prevent and eliminate drug and alcohol abuse and dependence from the Department of Defense." The U.S. military, therefore, screens for problem drinking, provides treatment for those identified with alcohol or drug problems, and is working to "change attitudes toward binge drinking," Smith said, adding that "such abuse and dependence are incompatible with readiness, the maintenance of high standards of performance, and military discipline."
Indeed, in its analysis of boozing on military bases, the Institute of Medicine found that 47 percent of active-duty personnel engaged in binge drinking during 2008 (the most recent year for which data was available), and the authors concluded the use of alcohol and other drugs are "currently at unacceptably high levels," making it "detrimental to readiness and total force fitness."
Military members like Marine Sgt. Thomas Brennan, who joined in 2004 and who later served in Iraq and Afghanistan, describe drinking as a staple of life in uniform. He knows of several recent drunken-driving arrests involving his Marine buddies or his former unit members, he said.
"With the amount of recreational drinking that goes on, it’s like peer pressure times 10," said Brennan, 27. "Everybody’s drinking. The Marine Corps is a brotherhood. You want to be part of that brotherhood, and your brothers are doing it. Nobody forces you to do it but the inclination to do it is pretty strong.”
In a New York Times blog published in October, Brennan wrote that the "golden rule" among Marine officers and non-commissioned officers seems to be: "If you’re going to partake, do so behind closed doors and keep your mouth shut about it. I have heard many leaders tell under-age Marines that if they were going to drink that they should keep their doors locked and be smart about it. Only when they were caught were they told not to do it."
“I couldn’t tell you how many times I’ve heard that over the years," Brennan told NBC News on Monday. "I wasn’t perfect either. I let it go on.”
The September study on alcohol abuse within the military also chastised the armed services for allowing "ready access to relatively inexpensive alcohol on military bases."
At Camp Lejeune, where Brennan was stationed, convenience stores contain large refrigerators stocked with domestic and imported beers, sold tax free. A six-pack of Stroh's, for example, costs about $4, he said.
On base, Marines also can purchase "Military Special" liquors, a cut-rate brand of liquor, including vodka and whiskey, that goes for about $6.50 per liter. At AR15.com, a firearms website popular with military members, one commenter described Military Special booze as: "No good for sipping, but for shots it works;" another said: "I am not sure I would clean battery terminals with that crap."
One combat-related factor exacerbating the overindulgence of alcohol is Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder. In September, the Institute of Medicine reported that Iraq and Afghanistan veterans diagnosed with PTSD have alcohol-abuse rates that are twice as high as those found among civilian young adult males.
Brennan was diagnosed with PTSD and said that self-medicating with alcohol caused him to suffer a "short-lived drinking problem" after he returned from Iraq.
"You’re already depressed because of the PTSD. Alcohol’s a depressant. A lot of guys with PTSD just got angry (when they drank) and did dumb stuff, like fighting," Brennan said in a phone interview. "We had one guy throw his refrigerator off the third deck one night when he was drinking. But I don’t know if that was PTSD, or just him being a crazy drunk."
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Nothing but a sanctioned witch hunt to thin out the ranks. Maybe if they weren't making so many overseas deployment's they would find something else to do with there time like be with family and Friend's.
Drinking has been an issue in the military for as long as their have been military forces. Military personnel live under stressful conditions and alcohol is the way they relieve the stress. This is not a good thing and the military needs to address the root cause of the alcohol problems by teaching other stress management techniques to personnel. This article makes it sound like this drug Suboxone is some kind of magic bullet to help alcoholics get off the booze. This is extremely misleading. Suboxone has its own problems and using it as a replacement for alcohol can simply end up with trading one addiction for another. Suboxone contains a partial synthetic opioid and is extremely addicting. Most responsible doctors will not recommend the use of this drug for more than very brief periods to help with the withdrawal from other drugs or alcohol. Some less responsible doctors simply keep prescribing the Suboxone to their patients to avoid the problems that occur when trying to taper someone off of this drug, mainly a relapse of the original addiction. Kicking a Suboxone habit may be far more difficult than kicking a drinking problem. This drug is not some magic pill and this article does a huge disservice by representing it a one. Using an opioid like Suboxone to help someone stop drinking is not an advisable course of action. There are other safer and more effective ways to treat an alcoholic than substituting an opiate for their alcohol. Suboxone should only be used to wean someone from an opioid or heroin addiction and then only under the careful supervision of a responsible doctor.
I agree with everything you said. Well written.
Let nature take it's course. Medicine and doctors do not work. AA in the end is the only thing that saves lives.
Witch hunt? Probably. Sanctioned? More likely directed from the rarified atmosphere in Washington as the feel good cause du jour. And the rank thinning will be spotty at best. Most field officers and NCO's follow one of two tried and true responses: pay lip service to the orders while effectively ignoring them or use them to weed out incompetents of all stripes or unwanted subordinates.
JS...
"Drinking has been an issue in the military..."
Drinking is not an issue in the military. It is an issue with some personnel. There is nothing to do in the military except work and get ready to work again. Time off is the only privilege these people have and with nothing to do, it's party time or rot away to a vegetable. Responsible drinking is learned, it cannot be ordered by the commander. Which drink is the last one? It's always the one before the one you just finished. These people come from a society where there is little or nothing to do in their spare time except drink or drug, and the military is just an extension of that, with less problems if they overindulge. Just stay where you are if you are indulging. Don't go out and make problems for society. Don't do so much you are not prepared for the next shift. Don't defend me with a muddled mind. Learn to be a responsible individual.
Have you ever been in the military? Responsible drinking can be and has been ordered by commanders. Failure to comply can be and has been punished. Whether or not the learned behavior survives the next transfer is another topic.
Of course there are no problems with drinking in the civilian world so this must just be an issue with the military. I wonder where these military members learned how to drink? Do they teach it in basic training? I wonder if any of them ever had a drink when they were in high school? Not that kids in high school would ever drink since they are underage (at least most of them cuz there could be a couple of over 21 kids still trying to graduate somewhere). Also, since all officers have to have a college degree I wonder how many of them drank while in college? Probably none, yeah, I think this is just an issue with the military.
I wonder if any of the troops who were freezing at Valley Forge were drinking? I know that none of the "greatest generation" that fought in WW2 would have ever had a drink during the war. Yeah, this must be a brand new issue. good thing someone is doing something about it (sarcasm mode off).
Drinking was allowed in the Barracks/Billets in the 70s & 80s to keep down the number of DUI's from Soldiers going off post. Many a good Soldier has been ruined due to alcohol. I drank HEAVILY during the 70s then realized life was in color without it. The Military places soldiers in HARMS WAY, SOLITUDE from their loved ones, Sensory Deprivation such as DEPRIVATION OF SLEEP, etc then provide little or no relief to the anxiety acquired on the job. Now Uncle Sam wants to find ways to cut back PTSD. No easy solution.
If the military has a no tolerance drug policy then they should not tolerate alcohol either.
I remember a military doctor telling me the number one reason for medical evac from deployed locations was withdrawal symptoms. I've heard other Airmen talk about how the first thing they'll do when they get back home from alcohol-free deployments like Saudi is drink. There are lots of stories of the stupidity of servicemen who drink on the aircraft home and make trouble. Spangdahlem AB in Germany couldn't go a single week without a DUI when I was there.
Yeah, we have a drinking problem.
Zero Tolerance drug policy yeah right!! Easier said than done all it is a policy!
If a soldier gets drunk and misses formation or cannot do his duty you can just bet he will get an ARTICLE 15.The Army has a real dim view of drinking on duty.If you get caught drinking on duty you might as well take your rank off and get ready to get chaptered out of the Army.I can personally guarentee that any soldier in my command that fails in the previously listed situation will face punishment.In the second case senario, i might even recomend a general courts martial.At the very least a field grade article 15.
Best advice if your trying to get rid of a problem child leaders do your Fukking Counseling it will save your ass in the end.
As you know Baylor.problem children usually do a good job of weeding themselves out.Sometimes they make it so easy because, they just can't quit messing up despite your best efforts to get them back on the straight and narrow.
They do sometimes you have those special cases where they think they are a Barracks lawyers. I had to do wall to wall counseling a few times but those days are gone along with the E4 Mafia.
They can start by not selling alcohol on the base...I know they can get it elsewhere, but why on the base? If they want to crack down on this alcohol abuse you have to start here on the base...It like saying dont drink while you are in the military but at the same time the military base sell alcohol...Hello??? Where is the logic in this???
It's about money! AAFES/NEX will not stop selling alcohol on base that brings in a Lot of revenue hell how many are in debt because of star cards with jacked up interest rates.
There are so many to fill the ranks that they're starting to thin them out by putting restraints on accomplishments with regard to consuming alcohol.
If you can drink more than you can talk, you're out. And if you think you can talk more than you've been drinking, you'll get your fair shot too.. But if you can kill and keep talking while forgetting about drinking.. You're their man! You win!
Happy Holidays and Peace on Earth!
Alcohol has been a persistent problem in the military. Yes, it is also a civilian issue, but the military tends to exacerbate such things.
Back in the 70-80s, alcohol was dirt cheap on post (in the Class 6) and soldiers were encouraged to drink on post rather than get a dui off post.
I don't see it as a method of "weeding out", however. The military uses the weight control program for that. At war? Needing people? They don't particularly care. Not at war? Thinning the ranks? All of a sudden they DO care
More crazy B.S. from the big brains that run the show.Keep it up and pretty soon they will have no military at all.
Maybe that's the objective.
Sub everything out to the Chinese.
So more whimps want to stop the booze in the ranks of the military. The lower ranks can't have a drink but the officer from the Generals on down have their own bars in their office so that they can give a drink to a congressman or some other person they want to brown nose,, I bet even Obama has a bar in the office some where for a improtant person!!!!
Hell, Obama even has his own brewery in the White House.
Or haven't you read?
it would seem they want less soldiers and more choir boys.Back to the article.The military is perfectly capabable of taking care of this situation without any help from outside sources ,thankyou.We have the UCMJ to follow ,which i might add is alot more strict than most civilians have ever experienced.
It's long overdue that they address this. I asked a general once 25 years ago why they were so proud of their antidrug program when they sold discount booze and smokes right down the street. He looked at me like I was from Mars.
Cynical lotsa numbers: Not from Mars, but you were way ahead of your time--and apparently quite aggressive about it, as well. GOOD FOR YOU! We just need thousands more who think as clearly as you do, with a willingness to speak truth to power--as you did.
USN for 21 yrs. Cigs sold for $2/carton. I started smoking after I joined and it took me 13 yrs to quite. I finally went to a hypnotist and it worked for me (post-hypnotic suggestion: every time I get within arm's length of an ashtray, it smells like a urinal - still does). I finished running PT one day and realized I was wheezing like an asthmatic calliope. Stupidest thing I ever did was to start smoking. Never much of a drinker (the one time I had a hangover, I threw-up everything I'd eaten since I was about six years old) and spent very little time in clubs and bars and never used drugs because of my own, personal choice. I figured if I got addicted to cigarettes so fast, who knows what would have happened if I had tried something else. I agree that it is stupid to subsidize something that is hypocritical to good order, morale and discipline. I understand the economics of hawking booze on base, but it's kind of like a convent running a whorehouse in order to keeping buying candles and flowers for the altar.
I finished my 20 yr USN service last year. During that time I can't honestly think of anytime that some one Officially asked the question: "Why do our shipmates/troops/etc turn to booze when they are off duty ?" During my heaviest drinking days, it all came down to my working enviroment I had to put up with. Drinking gave me away to Forget (howerver briefly) My job/boss/workmates. A feeeeeeew years ago during a department dressing down after a alcohal incident, the Command Master Chief ask if anyone had a reason why everyone was drinking so heavily ??? I raised my hand and respectfully said "becasue everyone is unhappy with the command/dept/div and drinking is the easiest way to relive stress". The reply was a strong NO, it discipline !! Most people drink to get a little relief from Discipline.
I am not going to deny a solder a chance to unwind after duty.So make any case you want.As long as booze is legal and the troop can show up for work the next day sober and do his job i have no problem with it.I's when the troop shows up drunk and can't do his job is when i have a problem,and if i have a problem it will be that troops problem soon enough.
Dee, nothing personal, but if you ain't in, it's not something for you to comment on.
Morey, as a tobacco user, I wish I knew where you got yours because out here at Ft. Leavenworth, KS, it's cheaper for me to drive a mile across the border for cheaper cigarettes in MO.
I don't think drinking is anymore prevelent in the military then it is with college students. You all have to remember the average age of our military, is the same as our college student. All one has to do is go to a college town and your'll find the same thing.
A. you don't know whether she was in or not.
B. Even if she WASN'T in, she has the right to speak.
When I was in the Army, they put a BEER vending machine in the barracks. Booze was tax free bought on base and the NCO Club had really cheap drinks. Imagine soldiers restricting their drinking under those circumstances. I wonder how it is now.
softdude, see my post below on page two.
wow i forgot about the beer machines in the barracks..ahh the flash back.it was a barracks disaster when trhe machine was empty or broken.
Doesnt' happen anymore.
Why don't they commision a study for drinking in the college towns. Probably about the same. I'd say the average age of the military drinking is the same as a college student. Has alot more to do with their age, then their career choices. Of course, when you add PTSD, it's probably a little more devastating.
Must have been in Germany! :)
They had beer machines on the street corners there too ... one DM got you a beer!
The first time I saw a beer vending machine in barracks, it was in BEQ 1184 at CBC Port Hueneme, CA in June, 1974. The beers were $.25. And cold. Unfortunately, they were in cans, and I hate the taste of beer in cans.
I rememner my first deployment to Okinawa and seeing the beer vending machines in the barracks. I thought I had died and gone to heaven. Of course I was only 18 and loved every minute of my time over there.
Those guys are not going to take kindly to those new regs, especially if they apply to enlisted men and not officers.
Give them a bag of Washington weed. There, problem solved.
Be all that you can be......
Domewars,
You have succinctly identified the problem. "Be all that you can be" looks good on the TV and stimulates enlistments. The drinking starts after the 100th time you are out on a parade ground picking up cigarette butts at 0600 with a pot-bellied E-5 standing behind you yelling "This is all you can be."
i recall when certain religeous groups in colorado springs managed to close down most the strip joints.That was truly a sad day.Then the same groups closed several bars and demanded that the General close the enlisted club on Ft Carson.I don't recall the exact words but he basically to the no,no and hell no.Now ears later i will follow his lead and example and not take anything away from our soldiers.
Ahhhhh, GI corner. I remember it well (most of it, anyway).
All this is going to do is hurt those that don't have enough rank to weather a storm. In the AF Pilots have a bar in their side of the building. They have bars set up at all of the holiday parties and then they want to know why there were so many DUI's during the season. My base is 50 minutes from a big city and the small town that the base is at has nothing to do but to drink. There are at least 20 bars Mountain Home Idaho with a population of less than 15,000. There is nothing of entertainment value in this town but to drink. All of the stores close around 5 and the bars are the only thing open. You can't put people in the middle on nothing and then tell them that they will be looked down upon if you drink.
They have been "cracking down" for years. I remember they cracked down back in the early 1980's when I was stationed at Camp Pendleton. It destroyed morale and some snitches were almost killed.
Hope they at least got stitches. Semper Fi
Well I can confirm failure. When I got to Camp Pendleton in 1986 Booze was flowing freely and not a word was being said unless you got behind the wheel of a car. Writing bad checks, now that was another story.
Francle--- we had the same deal in the Army too.one thing i never drew a conclusion on though...which one is lower? a baracks thief or a snitch?
Good idea. BTW, when you need young people who believe they will never die to fight the wars created by politicians, please look elsewhere. If you get people to think critically in all aspects of their life, perhaps volunteering to go fight for a country that really doesn't give a crap about you is not the best course of action anymore.
It's the age group, just look at a college town and you'll see the same thing.
No booze at Christmas? That's like telling a soldier attack the enemy without giving him a weapon.
Drinking during my war - Vietnam - was extremely common. It was as if you didn't drink they'd teach you how. We had beer machines in all barracks, 10 cents a can. Class 6 stores, where you bought booze, did an extremely healthy business. People who didn't drink heavily would sell their remaining Class 6 chits, for about half a gallon of booze. Selling chits made a lot of people a lot richer than poker, which was rampant. Drug abuse, to forget what was done and being done, was rampant also,with the exception of those in extremely sensitive positions.
Nothing changes in the military.
We were basically taught to smoke and drink. I think the same goes on today. History teaches us that to relieve either boredom or terror, soldiers, airmen, sailors and civilians will drink and smoke. It's a pandemic and it won't change, regardless of regulations.
Body surfing in beer on the floor of the barracks in Vietnam. Looked like fun! A giant mound of (rusty) Budweiser cans on the floor the next morning. General (?) said that first Iraq war was successful in part because of NO Alcohol was allowed.
I believe the generals name was 'Schwarzkopf'.
Right, it had nothing to do with superior forces and weapons. It was over so quick, alcohol was never a factor.
I can tell you from first hand experience that Desert Storm had plenty of beer.
The reason Desert Storm ended so quickly was because we all wanted to get home to drink again. :)
John -2357938 The General in the war you are talking about was Abhams Schwarzkopf was in th 1st Iraq war. Get your history of wars straight
Dan,
General Order 1 prohibited consumption of alcohol for Desert Shield/Desert Storm and it was issued by Schwarzkopf so John was correct in his statement.
My XO in Vietnam was a WO4 Mustang with a Purple Heart & he could out drink the best of them. He was an excellent officer and well respected by everyone. Of course, back then there was no such animal as Political Correctness. The military doesn't lose wars, the politicians do.
Some beer did surface during Desert Storm but, i don't know how.All i found was a couple empty cans.
@wolfhound: I got the C17 pilot that lived on my street to fly in a case of beer for my BIL (USMC). He was flying in right where BIL's tent city was. BIL hadn't had any in weeks and he and his Gunny got smashed after just a couple!
As a non-smoker and very moderate drinker -- I was very popular at the end of the month! :)
47% engage in binge drinking? thats probably because the military (Air Force at least) considers more than 2 drinks in a night a binge. number could be more or less, but everyone lies on their annual health survey, don't want to be called in for alcohol counseling and sent to class because you had some beers while watching a football game. yes, they are super anal. sure there is drunken behavior, so handle the mis-behavers, don't ban alcohol for fighting men/women when they are partying and cutting loose responsibly, off-duty. it's legal, and that's what is it is for...
You are right let them tip a few,, If they don't let them drink they will do the hard drugs or a little pot now that a lot of the states make it legal!!!
it would'nt be fair to ban booze in the military while civilians of the same age are doing the same thing.The only difference is the civilians don't have the responsabilities that their military opposite numbers do.
In our military where "suicide is the greatest enemy," deemphasis of alcohol is long overdue. One of the strongest risk factors for suicide is intoxication.
Remove the alcohol and I guarantee the suicide rate will increase.
Is drinking in the military a problem? Most assuredly.
The answer isn't a wholesale crackdown. That'll never get legs. Part of the answer is identifying those who have a legitimate drinking problems and giving them the help they need. The rest...zero tolerance for the crimes committed while under the influence.
Every piece of research performed by the military and elsewhere says suicide does decline when
alcohol use is limited. Plenty of facts to read via Google,
among hundreds of others.
I included a link in my last post, but it did not post. Feel free to google military suicide alcohol, or anything similar. Research trumps opinion when lives are at stake.
so are you saying that we should all go back to the days of prohibition?
De-emphasis of alcohol has been going on for a Long time....and I've been in for 28yrs
I really don't know how to address this. I joined the Marine Corps in 1957, drinking was as much a part of life as dirty laundry. Over the years we've tried to put a rope around it with little success. I can fully understand the Japanese wantting curb the culture, but, by the same token, their own citizens are among the worst offenders.
Friday night happy hours were mandatory for both officers and enlisted. I tended bar at an Officers Club in California and was actually promoted at a happy hour while tending bar. We thought of it as healthy fun. This is bull Crap. I recall a Generals wife in Okinawa trying to put a lid on it. her husband was the biggest offender. So what's the answer, I don't know. breathaliyzers aren't going to change anything. Saying that the troops need to drink is bull @!$%#. But, the military that I grew up in (both enlisted and officer) embraced the social world in which drinking was not only accepted but expected. The Enlisted Club/SNCO/Club/Officers club was and is an institution. Close em down, close the package stores, provide bus service to your local cultrual centers. It ain't gonna happen. How effing stupid are people. What you do is not unlike what society at large does, hold individuals responsible for their actions. Provide instruction and appropriate training, that's twice what the schmuck that lives next door to you gets.
Fred, I spent 6 months in Okinawa and just outside of the gate were several streets full of bars that had no problem serving you drinks till you were puking or plain passed out. All were owned by Okinawan's. They need to own their part of the problem.
I remember an air assault in Viet Nam after an all night party. We were all strapped in and ready to lift off when the co-pilot says "Where's the AC?". I looked out at the rotor and he's hanging over the stabilizer bar passed out cold. Now, if I hadn't been drinking the night before with him, I never would have climbed back in after I got him down and into his seat.
I realize that the military is not like a regular job but a real commitment to your brothers and team. We ask these young men and women to give up their family vacations and thanksgiving holidays away from the people thay love. For the most part we get them at Christmas but find out they must leave before new years. It's no surprise that we find out that they have had trouble related to alcohol abuse. These young people can not have a real love life bouncing from base to base leaving in small rooms no bigger than your bathroom at home. They are asked to go on training missions for four and five days at a time and when thay come back , they come back to small room with no one to ask "how did it go".? There lives revolve around texting friends back home to stay up on things and the feelings of wishing they could be there. Moms and dad text them regularly and get one word answer like , fine, k, just a little trouble with Sargent but but ok. You hate to know you can't help but you give encouraging words of support. Your son can be home for 10 days and the only thing you love the most is the welcome home hug and the going away hug where you whisper in his ear how much you love him and your heart breaks as he leaves to catch his flight. It's a stressful life but they keep their military demeanor and push on with little complaining.
Now how the hell am I supposed to play CRUD sober? Really.....c'mon, son!!
I think one of the Crud rules is that you have to be drinking. What is the purpose of playing Crud if one is not drinking?
The demand for soldiers must be down. These crackdowns are a time honored way of doing the RIFs (reduction in force) Back in Bush's day, they couldn't get anyone to join...unemployment was down, and enlistments were with them.
It was big news.
Alcohol and a lot of stuff was winked at. Then you end some wars, sell off the US economy for political campaign contributions.. You get folks begging for enlistment...and you got to dump a bunch of guys before they get a pension.
It's all done in subcommittees.
Yearning: Unfortunately, much of what you write is probably true. On the other hand, living so cynically is a distinctly rough road. Hard to engage in life joyfully when you know too much--this is a big reason why soldiers drink and do drugs. You understand their perspective.
Yeah, it is probably true...but you figure it's too cynical, eh?
Sorta like your recognition that ending the draft was a strategy to step up the wars... Probably true... but being so cynical is no way to live.. or so they tell me.
If you do not know what it is like-you do not know what it is like. I became a drunk in Nam at 17. We NEEDED it. Sometimes you just have to be oblivious to handle one more day. I got home and carried the problem with me through 5 dwis, 3 wrecked cars, and a lot of legal problems. At 25 a judge told me that if I did not do something about my drinking he would take away the freedom I had fought so hard to have. I listened. I have been sober for 30 years. Not only did the experience make me the man I am (my kids think a damn good one-and that is all that matters to me) but I would not rob anyone of what ever it takes to help them grow up with a strong sense of values. Character is built through suffering-from the Big Book of Alcoholics Anonymous.
Congratulations, BobW lotsa numbers! You're about my age, I think. I knew a lot of guys who served in Viet Nam. You suffered horrors both there and when you came home, and our own generation helped screw you. I also knew quite a few who made it back and never recovered.
I take issue with just one thing you wrote--that 'the experience made you the man you are' today. That man was always inside you--or you wouldn't have understood your need to get wasted in the first place, and you surely wouldn't have succeeded in the struggle back from the depths.
Your children have every right to be very proud of their dad. I'm proud of you, too. Thanks for sharing your story.
Dee, I take issue with your issue about "the experience made you the man you are today". Sometimes it takes a significant event to bring out the best...or worst...in people. Some people never know what they are made of until they experience a significant emotional event.
Philip with numbers: You're right, and that was BobW's view, as well. I'm not disagreeing. But BobW had spot-on instincts--or he just knew--why he needed to drink. He then listened to the warnings, and made it through. I've never been in military service, but was in law enforcement all my adult life, which at least has a similar hierarchy. I was also permanently disabled on the job--nothing related to police work but it ended my career.
What separates the people who make it through disaster successfully, from the people who suffer an equivalent disaster and fail?
I can't help but think it's not just the situation, but something inherent in the individual as well. That's what I meant. The successful ones may not know that part in themselves until it's needed, but that doesn't mean the nugget, core,or soul wasn't there before; it just hadn't been realized or activated yet. Does this make sense? Sorry if I'm not saying it well.
I agree Dee........ As we mature we learn self control....Character is defined by action not by how we feel and the personal challenges we face...That is where wisdom comes from.......Before I owned my own very successful business I was in the corporate world and was nicknamed the "bulldog".....I never quit....I always accomplished....failed and flawed as I was.....I saw something greater than my personal faults and gained wisdom and understanding for others and their faults......Everyone has at least one great quality....As a manager of individuals we learn to find those qualities in our upper management and promote the benefits of that for personal and career development.......Humbly we learn....life is a continuous improvement process and to look at in any other way is arrogant and foolish.....and I am x-military (only 4 years)
PeterDean: Yes, humbly we learn. Thanks.
I'm glad I retired when I did, the military has really changed. and not for the better. My suggestion is why not recruit from Utah and Idaho. All the Mormon soldiers I ever served with were very patriotic and had no substance abuse problems of any kind. That being said, I remember Commanders and senior NCOs that preached "Train hard, play hard. Tomorrow you may be dead." Those were leaders I would follow through the gates of Hell.
TiminCali: I thought eliminating the draft would be a good thing. I did not foresee it was a strategy of the military-industrial complex to begin serial, endless wars nobody would object to, having no skin in the game. War is great business!--but bad for people and other living things.
Sorry to say, I think we have to bring back the draft to eliminate America's utter lack of concern about soldiers or war in general--although we're just beginning to understand some of the costs to U.S. taxpayers.
No more stiff ones for our guys in uniform.
Our 19 year-old daughter just today submitted a college paper on whether or not the legal drinking age should be 21--as federally required for the last 25 years or so--or 18, or 25.
A group of college chancellors and presidents (known collectively as the Amethyst Initiative) have argued for reducing the age to 18--their hope is that education during introduction to college life will suffice to decrease campus binge drinking, and that earlier legalization will make it easier for kids in trouble to seek help without threat of criminal charges and jail time. They argue Prohibition merely inclined folks to drink too fast and to excess, and believe denying students alcohol makes them all the more likely to binge.
Others opine the legal age should be 25, because by then the brain is fully matured, people are generally more experienced and have more adult responsibilities, as well--and the number of college students able to buy for others would be sharply reduced.
My daughter's essential point was that we should be consistent. If our kids can go to war and die, buy cigarettes which are the #1 cause of death, enter contracts, be held liable, and vote, denying them alcohol at the same age actually gives them a free pass to act childishly about drinking--and might in fact be considered age discrimination.
Her second point was that alcohol education should be just as mandatory as sex education, beginning in middle school and extending through high school. Education, she says, rather than age, will make the difference--and kids should receive such education long before they really need it.
All aspects of alcohol intake should be part of this education, for example: the lag time for alcohol's effects to be felt, since if you drink to quench a thirst there's nothing you can do when suddenly you're in way too deep. Drinking to quench thirst without understanding lag time--especially among sports players and soldiers-- causes dangerous behaviors sometimes resulting in death. Students should learn about alcohol poisoning, and see functional brain MRIs showing alcohol's effects with a little, a bit more, then a lot of alcohol consumption--in full color.
High school students can be shown cirrhotic vs. healthy livers, pictures of which are readily available online--they can even be taken on a field trip to observe an autopsy involving chronic, excessive alcohol intake. Forensic doctors are more than willing, in most cases, to make speedy arrangements for this with teachers, so long as all permission slips, etc., have been taken care of well ahead of time. (Our 21 year-old witnessed five autopsies as an AP Biology student in high school.)
They should be required to experiment with divided attention tasks while wearing out-of-focus glasses that mimic the effects of overindulgence (as police trainees are required to do). They should be taught how alcohol, while seemingly a stimulant at first, has a very serious, subsequent depressive effect.
They ought to be taught to avoid alcohol as a thirst quencher because in fact, alcohol has a desiccant effect. They must be taught about the various allergies associated with different kinds of alcohol, to recognize allergic reactions and respond appropriately.
They should learn to sip slowly to appreciate flavors and quality for a slow buzz without losing inhibitions or capacity for judgment.
(Out of class, parents could perhaps help--if willing--by allowing a tablespoon or two of wine in a 12 oz. glass of water with dinner, if wine is consumed at family table; students can be told which wines their parents should buy, maybe a first wine of good quality, followed by a rotgut wine with a screw-on cap. They can write about their experiences, and parents could separately submit notes about what they witness in their kids. The differences would be fun as well as educational, the goal being to remove all mystique, replacing shadows in the dark and rumors on the street with frank discussion, education, and experience.
I know many parents might react to my suggestion--this wasn't part of my daughter's paper-- in sheer horror, but this is how I was raised in a very religious, Catholic Italian family, and I'm a teetotaler. I learned very early not only did I not like the taste of alcohol, but I'm allergic to the tannins in red wine! This is how europeans teach kids about alcohol. Catholic kids also get a leg up from the taste of wine at Communion--sickly sweet, headache-producing wine--a total turn-off.)
The same education must be mandatory for our soldiers, beginning in basic training. Alcohol need not be removed from military bases, but it need not be as pervasive as it is at present, either.
Talk therapy and medications should be immediately available to all soldiers--having just one doctor specializing in addiction medicine for the entire military is reductio ad absurdum--reduction to the point of absurdity.
Excessive alcohol intake and drug addictions must be completely decriminalized and treated solely as a public health issue. That's what's done in other countries--Poland, for example--that have been able to reduce such addictions by half.
It's a shame a 19 year-old can see how to resolve this, but the military-industrial complex in all its well-funded glory has nary a clue. This failing stems from an arrogant perception of soldiers as expendable pawns--the old white men engaging us in endless wars care not one whit for the lives of the young men and women they send to do their killing for them.
Although General McArthur said, "Old soldiers never die, they just fade away," clearly young soldiers today are intended to die, for they are treated abysmally when they come home. Due to great advances in medical care, 96% of today's soldiers survive, but they do so with injuries that require a lifetime of care they're not getting. The VA has a backlog of many months. From Iraq and Afghanistan alone, we have now 1 and a 1/2 million damaged soldiers--yet we seem unwilling to count their care as a cost of war.
Those who rebel now against higher taxes need to rebel before the next time a president sends us into war without full Congressional approval. In every previous war, we have banded together to sacrifice for the cause; those who refuse to do so now are cowardly, greedy, and a complete antithesis of what it means to be truly American.
At present, our tax rates are lower than those of any other 1st world country, while our military expenses are greater than all other countries combined--and as we attempt to police the world safely for the military with unmanned drones, we are only making the rest of the world despise us.
After 4, 5, 6 tours of duty in war-ravaged foreign countries where even the people we're training turn guns on us, who wouldn't drink or do drugs to ease the pain?
Let's end the wars, hold off on more wars, bring our soldiers home--and do right by them.
as we attempt to police the world safely for the military with unmanned drones, we are only making the rest of the world despise us.
If the rest of the world despises us than why are there so many legal and illegal aliens in this country?
texasbob:
Your question isn't really relevant to my statement, but there is a very clear and obvious answer: people migrate here because they want to live as they believe we do, in wealth and freedom. They can want what we have and hate us or not--two different issues at play.
People who come from Mexico also do so because our drug addictions and our munitions have made a safe life there practically impossible. Even Canadians will frankly admit it's hell to be next-door neighbors to the all-consuming, seemingly all-powerful USA, particularly because of
1) our exorbitant overflow of unregulated munitions,
2) their relative inability (in the past, at least) to compete successfully against us,
a) in commerce,
b) in education, and in
c) talent drain (the migration of highly skilled people from their country to ours).
All of this is shifting, however, as the corporate agenda destroys democracy, the Patriot Act deteriorates our freedoms, and workers lose power to organize and negotiate, as a result of which we now have a very wealthy upper class, and a permanent underclass, without any real middle class.
What I was referring to, however, was the reactions around the world to our never-ending military interference, unasked for and unwanted--especially when death rains down from the sky in the Middle East, from drones controlled by operators sitting comfortably in offices in the American Midwest!
Surely you get it? And by the way, the GOP holds out against amnesty solely to ensure the existence of a permanent almost-slave class--or we would be educating them to be more useful to society and to join the rest of us in today's steep climb to financial security, so let's not get all righteously whoopdeedoo about "illegal aliens" who either work for you, work with you, or are neighbors. Get over it.
Dee,since you are for the draft..how do you feel about equal rights and having females sign up for the draft,just like males?just thinking what's good for the goose is good for the gander.
Basically everything you've addressed is already covered in high school and college. All of your suggestions are covered throughout a military career. I say this as a soldier of 28yrs. Some of us old white men get it.
wolfhound27: Absolutely. I think everyone should be required to serve after high school, and I would expand service to include a wide variety of choices, from military, to hospitals and hospice care, elderly care, even community farming! And yes, I think women and men should serve equally in combat, and I think they should get to choose their service. Women might choose military, men might choose hospice care. Soldiers treating soldiers.
Right now, women are suing the fed in order to be able to join in combat.
What's good--or bad--for the goose should be equally shared by the gander. In return for mandatory service, the government should swap for equal time or better in a free college education.
Philip: Alcohol education is not taught at all in our high schools, and should begin in middle school. Nor is substance abuse treated as a non-criminal, public health issue, as it should be.
The problems for the military are the same as for colleges. Probably in the military you do receive some kind of substance abuse education, and it may well be continuous, but are soldiers offered any meaningful relief from the stresses that cause them to turn to alcohol and/or drugs?
This issue is near to me today because of the paper my daughter wrote. In law enforcement, too--as in the rest of American society--substance abuse is a real monkey on our backs.
I'm an old white woman. I wasn't referring to you--the reference was from someone in history who spoke of old white men sending young men into war--can't remember who just now, but Biden recently referred to the same quote. "Old white men" in the quote meant those men who have all the power--the president, and Congress. Please don't take offense.
Our soldiers shouldn't be penalized; they should be supported. The same for all who drink too much or resort to drugs for self-soothing.
Sorry folks, but there is not rampant binge drinking going on in the military. Folks with agendas (religious?) would like the public to think that military people are out and about at bars hanging over the windows with two beers in each hand. It is just not happening. The bottom line is that this is strictly a political response and a religious respond, thats it. Granted, there are a small, tiny portion who binge drink, but no more than expected. And the overwhelming percentage of those fols are good, decent people. If I decide to drink 6 beers at a party or bar, does that make me a binge drinker? Sorry to bust your bubble...no it does not. Again, I believe this issue is driven by politics and religion. I will drink my case of beer this weekend and salute you all, and for those who have a problem with that, I will salute you and ask that you kiss my arse.
If you drink 6 beers at a party or a case over the weekend, you have met the definition of binge drinking.
Don't confuse it with alcoholism or a legitimate drinking problem. Many other factors are at play: Why does one drink? How often? What are the affects on the drinker, his family, his friends, etc? Does it interfere with day-to-day activities? Does the drinker present a danger to himself or others when he drinks?
GatorChE: And one more, since we're talking soldiers here--does it affect combat readiness? Thank you, yes, 6 beers at a party or a case over the weekend does constitute binge drinking, which is not, as you also correctly point out, the same as being an alcoholic or having a real alcohol problem.
In fact, toxicity and the likelihood of alcohol poisoning is higher for the occasional or non-drinker who suddenly imbibes '6 beers at a party or a case over the weekend.'
Dee, you do not comprehend the situation. Combat readiness is not affected in that manner since alcohol is not typically available in a combat zone. For instance, I've had 8 drinks tonight but dont have to worry about a combat situation.
Philip: Okay; no alcohol in combat. But soldiers who chronically drink too much may be impaired without any alcohol available during combat. Delirium tremens--the shakes.
Please get an ultrasound of your liver. A doctor can tell you whether you need an MRI or CT scan.
My first cousin died of cirrhosis at 37--and never even drank anything hard, just beer. If you can consume 8 drinks in a single night and still type, you may have a serious problem. The liver can heal, but it needs to be checked first.
Meanwhile, thank you!--for the back and forth. I'm learning a lot.
This is a touchy subject for me, being a Marine wife, stationed on a base in Japan. Unfortunately, here, binge drinking and alcoholism is a huge problem. I see it every weekend and hear about it through the week. In my opinion, a huge part of the problem is low moral and stressful work weeks. The armed forces need an outlet to let go of the stress, and alcohol, in all honest, is a way of doing that. Some of the stories I've heard of people I know and the things I've seen prove that this is a huge problem. I'm not judging, I join in the parties and consumption as well; I'm just saying we do need to do something about this huge issue. I'm really confused by the comments here stating that drinking isn't a problem in the military. Granted, I have only been at two Marine Corps bases, but it has been an issue at both at them. Maybe people need to open their eyes a bit. The first step toward change is admitting there's a problem.
Here's to you DC...and to another one of your stupid ideas!
A public health crisis? what crap. How come it is not viewed that way for college students. Our 'leaders' have little problems with illegal drugs but choose to attack the military which is made up of a lot better quality of people than the general populace.
Sailors and sobriety, that's a good one boss. Do you have any idea how many places you can fit a bottle onboard a ship?
Ahoy, crabdusty!
Almost totally out of context, a quick story about sailors: our 21 year-old girl took courses aboard the S.E.A.-owned* Robert C. Seamans, a brigantine, in June, sailing from Hawaii to San Francisco-- then stayed on as crew until summer was done. Wide-eyed when she was actually paid money.
In all my life as mom I never expected this text coming out of the blue late one night, which read: "What do I order when I'm drinking alcohol with sailors in a bar?" :/
I recommended two fingers of a single malt whiskey straight up (with a glass of water on the side.)
The rest of the sailors would get falling-down drunk but still insisted on 'protecting' her, the mini-drinker--even when she had to hold them up to get them back aboard. Sailors are inherently gallant. Even the women.
Her callouses grew hard and so did the rest of her; with enormous pride she became strong enough to pull a line all by herself. At dock, sitting in the head rig while sewing a ragged sail edge, she acted as though the Seamans was all hers whenever folks gathered around to ogle her tall ship.
She hopes to crew again full-time for a year.
She loved drinking and karaoke-ing with them whenever they were in port, made fast friends for life--and now our little family all loves sailors.
Had to share this just for you, crabdusty--we know whereof ye speak! (Although booze is strictly verboten aboard, being a floating school)
*S.E.A. (Sea Education Association) is a maritime and biological research charter school sponsored by the Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution at Cape Cod, Massachusetts. (Google it to see where in the world the Seamans or its sister ship, the Corwith Cramer, is today.)