Just another day in America.

Just another gun enthusiast exercising his twisted views of his rights under the Second Amendment. Immature wannabe Rambos across the country must be swelling with pride right now.

Restricting gun rights is anti-American and guaranteeing psychiatric medical care for people who suffer from mental illnesses is socialism. Enjoy the ride.

Just another gun enthusiast exercising his twisted views of his rights under the Second Amendment. Immature wannabe Rambos across the country must be swelling with pride right now.

Give it a rest! Most gun owners are responsible citizens. His actions have nothing to do with the Second Amendment. You want to kiss all our rights away? This is one right and responsibility that I would fight for.

Mentally ill people running around committing crimes, must make anti gun America so happy

God bless those hurt, and god speed to the officers taking this criminal down.

This happened at the Tacoma Mall in Tacoma WA a few years ago. It's pretty clear, they need to ban malls..

You don't have to! Your fellow gun enthusiasts are killing innocent people in churches, malls, schools, and public places in cities across the nation in the fight to preserve your right to possess your deadly toys!

You don't know me, or anything about me. It is attitudes/personalities more similar to yours that blow up and kill people.

Hockey mask...gun no knife..Jason on steroids.

You can't "neutralized" Jason.

4000 people saved by guns everyday, media attention zero, One nut running around, all eyes glued

Like so many of these armed nuts, thanks to the over workings of the NRA, the guy will probably do what all these cowards do. Shot himself. With everyone having guns, but not me, we sure aren't doing a very good job of protecting anyone. All I read is family members slain, neighbor kills neighbor, sniper kills, a drive by shooting, killing at school, killing at army bases, killing on college campuses and killings at malls. Who is the NRA kidding????

After they kill they usually take their own life!

Do not see how anyone can ignore the fact that too many people are getting guns that should not be. I don't know if there really is any way to fix this without impacting those who would never commit a crime like this.

Criminals for the most part will find ways to get guns if they want them, and the law abiding gun owners are not the ones going into movies or malls and acting out some revenge fantasy.

We have a real mess on our hands in this country and not sure who or what will fix it. But if this shooter again had an automatic assault rifle, there is no need for that period.

So much hate and anger in this country and you see it in these message posts every day. I am the first to admit that I don't have any answers to this, but I am really tired of reading about this in the news all the time. This kind of activity is a phenomena that seems to occurring far more frequently than it should. We need to stop ignoring this problem and see what can be done by reasonable people we elect to correct this issue. I know that won't make everyone happy, but it seems like something definitely needs to change.

Lunk,

Get in touch with reality Lunk! I read every day about the slaughter of guns. We've had nobody saved in our town due to guns. But 4 dead this year due to them!

I DON'T EVEN OWN A GUN, YOU JERK! I do support the second amendment. Man, I can see why the conservatives call out people like you. Go bury your head in the sand. Oops, already there, isn't it?

You just keep telling yourself that while your fellow gun enthusiasts are slaughtering thousands of innocent people each year. At least you have your toys, right?

Where were the anti-gun nuts when Obama and Holder gave assault weapons to Mexican drug cartels? Those guns are illegal in a lot of places in the US and in Mexico and were used to kill American cops? Where's your outrage about this?

Baddog40,

"Just another day in America."

Well said! It's almost as if this sort of thing is becoming a daily occurence. Pretty soon people will no longer even pay any attention to it at all, not even when they themselves are the victims of it.

@sailcat;

Your comments are ignorant and biased. We live in a free society, these tragedies are the price we pay sometimes, and you just pray it is never you or your loved ones.

This reason more than the gun are why these tragedies occur. When you let nutballs such as this guy dictate your rules then you have lost all the freedoms that many have died for, including the right for you to rant against what made us free in the first place.

The gun!

Condolences to the families and those lost.:(

Timothy McVeigh didn't need a gun to mass murder people. Neither did the 911 attackers... just sayin'.

Sailcat, You're an extremist moron! It's people like the gun owners that give YOU the right to spew your uneducated mouth off. I bet your like "Rosie"..Anti gun unless they are used to protect your a$$! Pathetic!

That's right, why didn't the government come up with assault box cutter legislation?

Sailcat-2064101

So the 50,000+ people who die each year in the US is the price we pay so gun enthusiasts like you and pj can possess your deadly toys? And that doesn't sound sick to you? You have no shame.

cite your source on that 50000 per year.

@sailcat;

so gun enthusiasts like you and pj can possess your deadly toys?

Sorry I am not a gun enthusiast as you would like to label me. I am an American that knows freedom is never free. Maybe you will have nutjobs controlling how you live, but I thank God most of America will not.

Now do you see where the ignornace an biased of your post comes in.

Sailcat, pretty sure there were 11,000 homicides due to guns last year, not 50,000+. Way to exaggerate.

What is the NRA's response to this? Buy more guns and ammo!!! Hurry up before them librals take them away from you with their black helicopters!!

It says in the 2nd Amendment "well regulated" and that is what we need to see happen. It has not happened ... yet.

Sailcat, honey, Your approach is to attack the person, not the issue. How is that working for you, sweetie? Do you feel better about yourself by doing that?

Again.."moron".

My husband is a Veteran. So are many family members. They ALL have guns..Love them in fact. My kid's love them. I love my rights. I love the fact that I can carry a gun to protect myself and others from idiots that do go around hurting others. You're the "unhinged" one. Always an anti gun freak until the one day you wished you had one to protect yourself or a loved one from being killed or raped in your own home. Get real or get lost!

"So the 50,000+ people who die each year in the US is the price we pay so gun enthusiasts like you and pj can possess your deadly toys? And that doesn't sound sick to you? You have no shame."

In the United States, annual firearm homicides total...

2011: 8,583
2010: 8,874
2009: 9,146
2008: 9,484
2007: 10,129
2006: 10,225
2005: 10,158
2004: 9,385
2003: 9,659
2002: 9,369
2001: 8,890
1999: 8,259
1998: 9,257

In the United States, the annual rate of firearm homicide per 100,000 population is..

2009: 2.98
2008: 3.12
2007: 3.36
2006: 3.42
2005: 3.43
2004: 3.20
2003: 3.3
2002: 3.25
2001: 3.12
1999: 2.97
1998: 3.37
1993: 7.07

2011: Rifles - 323
2011: shootguns - 356
2011: Hand Guns - 6,220

Link at fbi gov site...I can't post links

I'll say it again. Rather than offering the non-helpful, "if they couldn't get a gun they would use something else..." or "they are going to be able to get guns anyway..." Why not offer an alternative solution that would save lives while not forcing law abiding citizens to give up rights or privileges? hmm?

Once they try and take the guns, more police will get hurt enforcing it than enforcing drug laws. It would take 40 years and next it would be BB guns that look like real guns, then Bow & arrows, then knifes, then aluminum baseball bats, then 12" pieces of piano wire, and 8" tall that could be used to smash someones head in.

But that will be OK because in a few years the jails will be empty from releasing all the people jailied for recreational marijuana use. We have wasted billions enforcing marijuana laws. Lets not waste billions trying to get rid of guns. It would cost not only money but there would be extreme loss of life.

The police are getting the guns off the street slowly but surely. Just about every Black male they stop, has one. They need protection from other Black people that have guns but no job or income.

Life would be better if more average Joes had concealed weapons permits. Upstanding people with no problems with the law who carry guns and will risk their life to save someone elses. Instead of cops every 2 miles, you'd have them every 50 people. No one else in that Colorado movie theater has a gun and what a shame.

Living in America is not perfect, but it is wonderful.

European countrys have gun laws, you can only have hunting guns, so they kill each other with hunting rifles.

Protect your family and yourself and carry. And if heaven forbid you have to shoot someone, check their pockets for Skittles.

Dorey I hope I don´t accidently bump into you on the street.I can just see the gun pointed in my face.And your kids should be retrained away from you.You sound like a violent out of control person.It´s because of people like you that we need very strict gun control.You are a very scary person and it sounds much more likely that you will be the aggessive one atacking people with your beloved guns.To be blunt.you and the NRA are terrorists and part of the reason that the U.S is so sick!

Another tragedy carried out by an individual, and thats where the blame begins and ends.

Off topic:

moneyos1

Where were the anti-gun nuts when Obama and Holder gave assault weapons to Mexican drug cartels? Those guns are illegal in a lot of places in the US and in Mexico and were used to kill American cops? Where's your outrage about this?

When exactly did Obama and Holder give guns to the cartels? because if you are refering to operation fast and furious, then you need to go back to it's origin: Project gunrunner(2006) which eventually became Operation Fast and Furious (2009). There were Management failures at high levels within the DOJ during both the Bush and Obama terms, but blaming either President for these failures is absurd.The DOJ failed not either President.

Hal,

Please cite something that shows owning guns saves lives? I've read and heard nothing in my town or neighborhoods about someone protecting their property and saving it and or a life ever. That is my town!

laughing...I guess I could become violent..because I would KILL ANYONE in a heartbeat that would break into my home to hurt my loved ones. OH wait..thats LEGAL! Not to mention logical and expected.

Clwyd - I got nothing. nada. I hope you didn't think I was of the opinion that having a gun is likely to save your life. I suppose it could, or it might end up being stolen and used in a crime, or perhaps being used when the owner was not in the proper state of mind to be handling a gun...

Clwyd

"So in the last 12 years 130,000 lives were lost so the NRA and you little boys, little girls and crazies out there can have their toys that are used for one thing only. Killing and murdering!"

Only 130k? That's not a lot consider most of homicides are done by the people they know. So odds are, they were going to kill one way or another gun or with out.

I can say about the automobile..But only 130k deaths were done in 4 years. I bet more people disrespect the road than they do firearms. In fact, in 2010 10,228 were killed in drunk driving crashes. 31% of all traffic deaths. There are more drunk driving deaths than firearm homicides..I say we ban alcohol!! Oh wait, we have a ban on drugs now..hows that going??

Besides..I don't own a gun and not part of the NRA.

Yup! Just like the guy who caught the two teenagers in his house and the gal laughed at him so he executed her and it was or maybe legal? It is sick!

How about the Wisconsin teen who ran to the porch of a neighbor when there was a beer party and the old coot shot him three times. He felt threatened even though the boy was only hiding under the porch.

Sickos with a toy that kills!

clwyd-2621393

Why do you Pity me? would you not kill to keep someone from hurting your children wife/husband? if not then I pity them!

Dorey I hope I don´t accidently bump into you on the street.I can just see the gun pointed in my face.And your kids should be retrained away from you.You sound like a violent out of control person.It´s because of people like you that we need very strict gun control.You are a very scary person and it sounds much more likely that you will be the aggessive one atacking people with your beloved guns.To be blunt.you and the NRA are terrorists and part of the reason that the U.S is so sick!

Show me Doreys "scary" post. You kind of sound like a reactionary. React before you get all of the facts? Yep, YOU should not own a gun, bart.

You don't have to! Your fellow gun enthusiasts are killing innocent people in churches, malls, schools, and public places in cities across the nation in the fight to preserve your right to possess your deadly toys! You must be very proud.

So we're going into churches, malls schools and other public places to PRESERVE our rights to possess our deadly toys now? It's not criminals ABUSING our rights who are doing this???

You seriously need a mental enema.

@SAILCAT;

Tiger shows the real numbers, More proof of what I said earlier, your post are just biased and ignorance.

Do you feel your argument is so weak you have to lie. Surely this is not a case of your source being wrong because there really does not seem to be any.

What is wrong now,cat got your beak? I can respect a different view but not lies and vitriol.

@chwyd;

You gave the ultimatum, and gave her options why are you mad that chose the latter,it was your option, she took it. Your house your rules,but do not get mad when someone calls you on your ultimatum. She chose to leave so what?

Dorey,

I have never feared for someone hurting my children and if I had a gun in our house either my wife or I would be the one you would be reading about int he paper tomorrow. I Pity you because I have enough sense to keep guns out of my reach. I hate them and doubt I would be able to take a life. I worked at a resort one summer and the Warden wanted me to shoot a Possum. I couldn't and wouldn't pull the trigger. I burned a old gun my father had from the military he brought back from Germany that is how much I hate guns and what they have come to be used for!

Dorey,

I have never feared for someone hurting my children and if I had a gun in our house either my wife or I would be the one you would be reading about int he paper tomorrow. I Pity you because I have enough sense to keep guns out of my reach. I hate them and doubt I would be able to take a life. I worked at a resort one summer and the Warden wanted me to shoot a Possum. I couldn't and wouldn't pull the trigger. I burned a old gun my father had from the military he brought back from Germany that is how much I hate guns and what they have come to be used for!

Clwyd

And you have that RIGHT to keep guns out of your home. Unless of course someone forces themselves in, then what? I live in the surrounding DETROIT area. NOW tell me I should not legally own a gun to protect my family. Please tell me again how I should not have that right. Please tell me that I should just HOPE I will be the exception of the norm around here.AND can you promise me that I will NEVER need a firearm? CLWYD and any others who think I'm just simply crazy..I can tell you this.. I would rather be tried by twelve than me or my kids be carried by 6. I seriously hope you will never need to protect yourselves the way we may one day have to.

Clwyd

"What gets me is how you always come up with excuses to kill or to make it legal!"

Who said anything about having an excuse to kill? Who said it was legal? I don't know what country you live in but in the US, it is illegal to kill another human unless your life is at threat. You are reading into it way to much. You are seeing what you want to see when words aren't even said.

As for your cousin..You are both right..She has to the right to own. But it is your house, your property..your rules. By telling her to put the gun away off the property or leave was the right choice. Since she didn't want to respect YOUR rules of YOUR property, she decided to leave. In that sense, she isn't a true family member to you and doesn't respect your values at your home.

." "Either the gun goes or you go!" The b---- left! We haven't spoken since and probably never will. She's nuts.

It sounds like she respected your wishes. That seems pretty sensible to me. Now, WHO is nuts?

Dorey,

If you can look another living being, human or animal, and kill it for whatever reason I still say, "I pity you!"

I gave my cousin an ultimatum and had to listen to her right wing garbage for an hour about the 2nd Amendment before the b--- would leave. She left making me feel like I was wrong and that she needed to gun in my house for protection? Wrong! I had to escort her out!

And as I said..If you couldnt take a life that is hurting your wife or children, I pity them. what if a huge dog was tearing your baby apart? what if a rapist had your wife or little girl? I know it sounds terrible but it DOES happen, God Forbid but it does..I just can't grasp where your coming from man. would you even be willing to die for your wife and kid's? I would without even needing to think about it.

one more thought...In a perfect world, Death wouldnt even be an option. People would just LOVE, no hurting one another, no war, no rape, no drugs etc. But we live in a world full of terror and horror. My Goodness man, look at that K2 stuff people were smoking..it made people eat other humans and animals ALIVE..screw that man, heck yeah I would have to shoot em down. Because I could not be able to live with myself if I didnt do what needed to be done to save an innocent person. No matter who it is.

clwyd, Gun owners and 2nd Amendment protectors are not right wing, faux news watching reactionaries. You are the one who is reacting rather than understanding and learning.

You seem to have it in your head that the only people who own guns fit your narrow view. That is not the case. I live in a very progressive state that has not given it's electoral votes to a Republican candidate since Nixon. We also have a large population of gun owners.

"I gave my cousin an ultimatum and had to listen to her right wing garbage for an hour about the 2nd Amendment before the b--- would leave. She left making me feel like I was wrong and that she needed to gun in my house for protection? Wrong! I had to escort her out!"

She didn't make you feel anything..You made your self feel that way..thus you were prob second guessing your self at the time. Though she can't defend her self here, just going on what you are saying, she is the extreme, not the norm. She didn't need to explain the 2A to you. All she had to say was this..

I feel more comfortable with me..Can you make this exception or compromise? If you said no and the 2 choices were to get it off the property or leave and she didn't like it as you stated, then that is your final word and right.

If I carried and a cousin of mine said that..I would of told her, let me unload the clip..here take it, hide it, lock it up while I lock the pistol in my car while I was there. If I had no other way to say "Get it off the property" besides putting in my car..then I would have no choice to leave because there would be no other place to put it.

But you did the right thing here..

@clwyd;

One should not bring firearms to stay at anothers house without first making the owner aware of them.

I still would not be upset if she chose to leave.

I'm not "right wing" nor an NRA member. Just an American that does what is legal to keep my family safe. I would gladly die to keep that right, as our Forefathers had.

Just like the abortion issue (which I feel will never be properly resolved to everyone's liking either), there is two sides to this story, both sides have merit and both sides make good points, but there is no definitive right or wrong. The bottom line is that we live in a world where the reality is that people kill other people and that guns make killing people a lot easier than say just a knife or baseball bat. And while I don't agree with the extremists on either side of this issue (because you can't paint this picture in just black and white), I would have to say in a perfect world no one would need to own guns. But this is far from a perfect world.

I'm 50 years old and have always felt that private citizens should not own assault weapons. You don't need that much firepower to protect your home or to go deer hunting. But on the other hand I am planning to move in the near future to a very isolated rural area, and for the first time in my life I am seriously considering buying a handgun to keep at home with me for protection. And I'm glad that the law allows citizens the right to protect themselves in such a manner. Do I need a semi-automatic high powered rifle? No, not unless I'm expecting a huge home invasion. Most likely if I ever need to use the weapon it will be against one or two individuals attempting to break into my home.

And finally, while I agree that individuals have a right to protect themselves, I also believe we need to take a closer look at existing gun laws and regulations and see if we can better prevent unstable individuals from purchasing guns. And yes I know that many criminals bypass these laws making them useless, but at the same time many of these mass murderers legally purchased the guns they used to kill. If we can cut down on the amount of legally purchased weapons by unstable people, that's at least a start, and I can't imagine anyone being against that!

Yet another one-man well-regulated militia ensuring the security of a free state at the cost of two more innocent lives...

How many of you morons think this is a conspiracy cover up and that this killer was a terrorist attack? Come on don't be shy. Another question might be how many of you morons think the government should announce it is a terrorist attack so the rest of the cells in the United States might join in or at least make them happy and plan more in the near future?

You know, I'm positively bored by the gun-control debates which always break out in discussions about stories such as this one. Nobody, from either side is ever convinced by anybody's arguments.

Has anybody ever seen somebody change their mind about gun laws in the midst of one of these discussions? Has anybody ever seen somebody post something like, "Damn it! You're right. I'm going to tear up my NRA card tonight!" or "You've convinced me. Tomorrow I'm going out to file for a concealed carry permit!"?

Never happens. Ever.

So I'll just say that there does seem to be an awful lot of these types of shootings in the last few days, even more than usual, and I don't think it was caused by either a dramatic increase or a decrease in the number guns in our society. Every day, I see reports of another bizarre shooting.

Is it because of the Holiday Season? The Economy? The approaching end of the Mayan Calendar [an artifact produced by a people who supposedly could predict the end or the world, but never invented the wheel]?

That's all I have to say about it. Now everybody can continue throwing insults, slogans and statistics at one another.

dman rocks! :) Really, excellent post.

Now, in my defence: I try not to insult but if someone insults me, all bets are off. Even then, I am still more civil than many. :)

It is too bad all the nice folks with a license to carry weren't close by...could have avoided all this.

Yet another mentally unstable guy bent on killing innocent people.Tis the season for every person who is off their meds,have never been on meds but should be,scorned lovers,spouses and people with anger management issues to make the headlines due to taking other peoples lives and many times their own.It would be a safer world if everybody was taught gun safety and we that are of stable minds were armed in public.

sounds like clwyd has other issues than gun control,

"We don't lock our doors in this town and you have gated iron bars and doors in California." "Either the gun goes or you go!" The b---- left! We haven't spoken since and probably never will. She's nuts. Brainwashed by the NRA and FOX!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sounds like Kay comes from an area where it might be sensible to have a gun in the house "gated iron bars and doors" Doesn't sound like a very hospitable neighborhood. And I thought liberals were supposed to take into account the socioeconomic factors in ones background. They are proposing hiring standards for companies based on just that.

Nice way to reference a member of the family "b----", by the way. "We haven't spoken since and probably never will, Have you offered? Are you sure it is not you who is brainwashed by the MSM or Hollywood?

And she's the one that's nuts?

I gave my cousin an ultimatum and had to listen to her right wing garbage for an hour about the 2nd Amendment before the b--- would leave. She left making me feel like I was wrong and that she needed to gun in my house for protection? Wrong! I had to escort her out!

So now the story changes to "She had to be escorted out"? And I am sure she had to listen to your left wing garbage for that same hour. There are always two sides to a story.

So let's try this, pick which ever Right(even if it is not one of the Enumerated Rights) you hold dearest. And let's say you go to someone's house and they say you can not exercise that Right there. How do you react? And somehow you sound like you are mad at HER for not wanting to stay in what sounds like a belligerent environment. To me it sounds more like you are mad or disappointed that your argument for banning guns in your house failed, and therefore you failed. To blame her is a poor Man's excuse.

@ TigerJ #1.63

Good reply.

Also, I posted this below, was in a vine that got collapsed. mea culpa if I violate some double posting etiquette.

We tried to outlaw alcohol many years ago, and one can easily see where that led to. So we have to figure out away to deal with DWI, because people still drive drunk. We ban guns, they will still be here, just as the booze was then, but it will be the "Gangsters/ Criminals" who will control them. Don't believe me? How's that war on drugs going? They still manufacture meth, here. How hard do you think it is to make a gun? (here's a hint, I have made several, from scratch. Even though they were single shot muzzle loaders, nothing is stopping me from machining out a full auto except going to jail. All you need is a lathe and mill, and maybe a broach or two. (I have a mill and a buddy has a lathe)

So, what do we do? Violate a God/Natural given right to self defense, from Predators (remember there are people in this country who live and make a living in regions where they have to carry a sidearm to defend against bears, mt lions, wolves. Not to mention Hoodlums or an over grown government)

As an aside the the manufacture of Meth, I have a nephew in jail for exactly that. Brilliant kid, he just doesn't have that 'Compunction' filter. It is as if, he is surprised he is in jail for doing something wrong, even though he knows it's wrong. It is very strange talking to him. (It is kinda like talking to an ultra left wing or bible thumping nut)

My condolences to the families of those involved, especially at this time of year, when peace should be in the hearts of everyone.

@ cleaning lady #1.72

Yet another mentally unstable guy bent on killing innocent people.Tis the season for every person who is off their meds,have never been on meds but should be,scorned lovers,spouses and people with anger management issues to make the headlines due to taking other peoples lives and many times their own.It would be a safer world if everybody was taught gun safety and we that are of stable minds were armed in public.

Have you 'leaded' any of those guns in your basement? It is beginning to sound like the prudent thing to do. (an unleaded gun does no good) ;-)

But I agree, these seem to be social issues, not 2nd Amendment issues. Of course at this point no one knows what set this guy off.

Something to remember, prior to 1934 any person any where in the USA could order a fully automatic rifle or machine gun through a catalog and have it delivered by US Mail. Why were there no massacres other than those related to criminal gangs?

Sounds like someone had a bee in their bonnet.

maddog40 wrote:

Restricting gun rights is anti-American and guaranteeing psychiatric medical care for people who suffer from mental illnesses is socialism. Enjoy the ride.

#1.4

If original, excellent. If a quote, good catch.

And tiger quoted statistics that may or may not have been accurate, but, whatever his intent pretty much proved that handguns should be banned. The second amendment, which existed mainly so the Army could get soldiers with weapons and ammo, does not guarantee the right to handguns. And it is the widespread, ridiculously easy availability of handguns, so lovingly promoted by the all-guns-everywhere-all-the-time crowd of paranoid idiots, that makes these incidents so common.

Of course, those idiots do not think that their efforts are responsible. They think the psychos and criminals get their guns from Bulgarian gun smugglers.

Everybody should have guns = all criminals and all psychos will get a gun easily any time they want one.

You gun nut guys should all have J.T. Ready bobble-head dolls on your dashboards. He is, after all, your patron saint.

I might note that I've had a gun for over 40 years.

AXE me a question about Ubee modems and tea party related wars and bees dying in the US a couple of years ago.

AXE me a question about Ubee modems and tea party related wars and bees dying in the US a couple of years ago.

I think this deserves a vote obviously. Waiting. Patiently for my vote while tapping my foot. Click the up arrow now.

Keep cranking out those hand guns folks and more and more of this crap is going to happen. Sad. Pretty f**king sad.

Baddog40

Restricting gun rights is anti-American and guaranteeing psychiatric medical care for people who suffer from mental illnesses is socialism. Enjoy the ride.

Yes.. I am sure that our founding fathers would agree that 'preventing' automatic weapons from roaming on our streets was un-american.

Are all gun owners alike in that after they commit their mass slaughter they commit suicide like the cowards they are or is it just these deranged nuts?

To hell with the 2nd Amendment. Nobody should own guns!

If only all mall Santas were packing heat this wouldn't be an issue.

The Marines need to branch out. Their "Toys For Tots" is a great program and could be the model for "Guns For Santas"

Happiness is a warm gun.

Dorey,

You sound like one very paranoid person worried about the safety of her family! I sounds like you might live in California or somewhere in the south. I think it is time you thought about moving and forget the guns. My town we don't don't lock the doors during the day or night!

We have a real mess on our hands in this country and not sure who or what will fix it. But if this shooter again had an automatic assault rifle, there is no need for that period.

The solution must come from the gun owners, second amendment ideologues and the NRA. Those of us who are mentally stable, law-abiding gun owners, or who don't own any guns at all, have no way to impact this ridiculous situation because the gun-nuts and the NRA control our government.

If you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem.

We must balance our 'need' for assault weapons with our need to talk to Santa, shop and watch movies without being attacked and blown away by another nutcase with an assault rifle.

We live in a free society, these tragedies are the price we pay sometimes, and you just pray it is never you or your loved ones.

We are "free"? Doesn't that depend upon your definition of the word? I don't feel very free to go about my day, worried that some nut is going to shoot me.

These tragedies are not the price we pay to live in a free society. These tragedies are the price we pay to be owned by fear-mongerers and the NRA.

I don't pray that a loved one or myself won't be shot. We all wear kevlar when we go out. It's a lot more effective than prayer.

130,000 gun deaths "doesn't sound like a lot". Compared to what, the Holocaust, Hiroshima, the wars in Iraq? At what point would this figure merit concern?

"I love my guns". Might want to have that perspective looked into. I love my tennis racket, and my golf clubs and my guitars. None, however, have that potential lethality for accidental or intentional death. You did see the story today about the 5-year old girl that shot herself with her father's utility to "protect his family"?

We've devolved into a nation of fat guys in pickups with beards, camo and body armor with their assault rifles proudly displayed in the rear-window gun rack. Ever noticed that real men in no way resemble this description, just the frightened posers?

My suggestion: let's put Nate Silver onto this.

What are the odds of being shot to death by an intruder in your home, versus being shot at a mall, restaurant, movie theater, workplace, or anywhere public? Or your odds of being shot by an angry spouse or by a child playing with a gun?

Let's put aside the fear-mongering and inject reality into the conversation.

LunkyStrayDog: You're an idiot. And your comment is idiotic.

Maybe during the 1800's to early 1900's, the Second Amendment was appropriate. But we're in 2012. And to see people have this unhealthy appetite and lust for firearms is very medieval. People's love for firearms is like a religion. It's as if they worship the GD thing. Guns and Money are the people's true God.

How many people are killed by drunk drivers each year in America? Driving while intoxicated is illegal in all 50 states yet people do it, should we ban alcohol again it worked so well the first time. Or how about cars maybe it's the cars fault. I have personally had 3 times that I've had cars coming at me in my lane on I-80. Maybe it's just old people who get confused maybe no one over 60 should be allowed to drive or how about no one over 40 or 30, when does it become a stupid argument? You argue more people use cars, ok but your car pollutes my air, do I not have a right to breathe clean air? I have a god given right to defend myself and my loved ones from attack by any and all means period. Some idiot doing something stupid with a car doesn't mean you shouldn't be able to have one it wasn't you who drove drunk it was him blame him not the car or gun or stick do you get it yet? Maybe we should go ahead and take away your other rights like free speech and freedom to peaceably assemble. GEEEEZ !!! LIBERAL FOOLS !!!!!

I know this is going to invite a multitude of PERSONAL STORIES, about this friend, or that neighbor or yada, yada, yada, but the arguments put forth by some gun people, JUST DON'T work. And don't confuse this with being an anti-gun or anti-gun owner post. IT ISN'T. There are differences between gun OWNERS and gun NUTS.

The best "self defense" tactic, is to lead a law abiding life. The odds of you ever having to use a gun for defense drop dramatically when you're not exposing yourself to crime. Nor can you just blanketly say they deter crime. Gun ownership would only deter crime if ALL crime and ALL criminals were rational. They're not. The crack head who robs the local conveinience store, he's not rational, he's desparate and not focused on whether you may be armed. The gangsta in the drive by shooting? Well by the time you even realize you're caught in one, it's already over. The rapist? Well, they don't exactly announce they're going to rape you first, so sure if you realize what's occurring, can fight him off, get to the gun, and blow his brains out before he catches you again... I guess?

It's not that clear cut. You have to look at the circumstances of the crime, the mentality of the victim, the LIFE of the victim, the relationship between victim and perpetrator, and a whole lot of other things. Nor is it easy to, say in this situation, pull your gun and take out the bad guy. Tunnel vision, stress, panic... It takes extensive training to take on a situation like this. That's why we have POLICE. Plus, LEGALLY using a gun in self defense and using a gun in self defense are two VERY different things. Using a gun to defend yourself, is not so simple as merely blowing away the guy trying to jack your car.

Nor is comparing this to anything, like CARS, applicable. Cars aren't built specifically for the purpose of killing people.

And, who are these representatives in our government that you need a gun to protect your liberty from? How are they planning on getting around our systems of checks and balances? Why are they out to destroy the very source of their power (as in the government). Are they planning on using our military against us? Why would the military be okay with that? If not, why wouldn't we use our military against them?

And please, if guns are sooo necesarry to secure our safety, why have multitudes of people never owned them, and lived long and happy lives?

I have no real problem with gun ownership, per se, but the pedestal some place guns on is batsh($ crazy. Please, can someone name any other inanimate object that we would take pictures with and mail in Christmas cards??? Perhaps this year I'll pose with Santa and my filing cabinet, or laundry basket??? This is such a perfect illustration of my beef with gun nuts. I've yet to hear any gun enthusiast make a rational argument or present non-biased data in support of gun ownership. They inevitably fall back upon illogical fear mongering, or personal insults when they're unable to answer my claims. The reason some people are so crazy about guns isn't because they're such wonderful tools of self defense or deter crimes or protect our freedom, it's because they're sexy. They make mundane, ordinary people, living mundane ordinary lives, feel excitement and power. Of course if you all realized that, you'd have to admitt that you're life is mundane and ordinary. And wouldn't that be a kick in the pants. So instead you buy into these fear mongering arguments put forth by the NRA, who by the way has a vested interest in keeping you buying into them, seeing as they make gazillions of dollars off our your illogic.

The problem is that guns are a fact. They are here. We just have to endure that we will have shooting from time to time. Both sides are right. If you take the extreme and require every adult to have a visible gun on their person at all times you are in public then if someone started shooting most people would not engage that person with their guns and a lot of people would be killed. If you made it so that nobody could own a gun, then some crazy guy would find some vintage gun hidden in a basement somewhere and go and shoot a bunch of people.

If this particular person didn’t have a gun then this would never have happened but that is not ever going to be the case.

You don't know me, or anything about me. It is attitudes/personalities more similar to yours that blow up and kill people.

Good point PJ, but lost on the liberal mindset!

There are dozens of stories of guns 'preventing' violence and saving lives across the country, however these stories aren't the liberal media's 'cup of tea'.... they just aren't important enough to be reported!

case in point: A fellow co-worker in our firm stopped an attempted car jacking when he pointed his pistol at the perpetrator, who ran away. This was reported to the police but didn't show up in the news. Maybe if he shot the a$$hole it would have been newsworthy.

Guns save lives, that's why we are allowed to own them folks! Liberal laws let violent criminals go free, now this is a crime!

Very good points, Sarah.

To add to the discussion of the destruction caused by guns, look at the suicide statistics from the American Foundation for Suicide Prevention:

tigerj, when suicides and accidents are included, the gun death toll in the US is about 3x the homicide toll.

I am interested in hearing from a Second Amendment support who also opposed regulation of access to guns who has ALSO lost a loved one or had a loved one seriously injured in a public shooting incident. I have a feeling the "I'm happy to fight for Second Amendment rights" chorus rings a bit different for such a person.

Guns save lives, that's why we are allowed to own them folks!

Wait a second. If 'guns don't kill, people do', then where is the logic in saying 'guns save lives'?

What utter nonsense. People save lives.

Guns kill.

Kaybee,

Humans don't hit home runs, bats do???

Perhaps this year I'll pose with Santa

I volunteer to be Santa. :p

Sarah,

People don't drive, cars do??

People don't build houses, hammers and nails do??

Bassai,

But I mean, I might just shoot him. Creepy old dude, breaking into my house in the middle of the night...

Well that's different from posing with him. Between that and the chimney fire last night in a townhouse forget it. Two many occupational hazards.

@ TigerJ. I commend you on your research into the numbers you posted, but you left out alot of information. What you posted was the very limited data on Homicides only. But that is only a fraction of the people whos lives are effected by the use of guns in our country. I Googled "yearly gun deaths in the US" and got severl sites. I chose Polilifact to see what data they had and an article claiming 100,000 injured of killed in America each year by guns. Their Factcheckers got the following numbers from 2009 from the CDC.

Suicide-18,735

Homicide-11,493

Legal Interventions-333 I read this as self defence.

Undetermined-232

Total is 31,447.

Add in the non leathal injuries of 73,505 and you get a grand total of 104,852.

When you want to make a point with numbers(facts) make sure you have all of them. Personally, i wish i could find more up to date data than what the Poliyifact checkes came up with but I don't have days to look it all up. As For myself, i support the Second Amendment Rights of all Americans. I also believe that regulation of the weapons one can buy falls with in that right. I cam willingly accept the right to own a gun as well as the governments need to limit the TYPE of weapon it will allow the citizens to buy. I have owned two weapons in my life. Both rifles for hunting animals. I am also retired military and I am very well qualified and highly trained on several weapons. I cannot find a single reason for anyone to have an assault style weapon for private use. If you are hunting with this type of weapon then you need to drastically improve your hunting skills.

Scott in salt lake. You are comparing apples to oranges. Cars are made as a form of transportation and alcohol is made to drink. A combination of the two by irresponsable people can result in bad things happening. And the laws and regulations that govern such behavior are constantly mosified to suit the needs of the general public. Guns are manufactured for one reason only. To Kill Something. And just as we, as a sociaty, regulate and pass laws to protect our citizens from drunk drivers we should do the same for something much more enhearntly dangerous in the hand of the wrong person. I am NOT advocating for the removal af anyones right to bear arms. I am advocating for the limitation of fire arme that can fire multiple time without reloading. This will not stop all the crazies from getting their hand on a gun and shooting innocent people. But it will reduce it. The fewer of these weapons that can mount a 10, 20 , 50 or 100 round clip in circulation amongst our population the better. Just so you know Scott, I am an Independent. And I am no fool.

How are suicides relevant?

Criminals for the most part will find ways to get guns if they want them, and the law abiding gun owners are not the ones going into movies or malls and acting out some revenge fantasy.

I'll bet you dollars to donuts that the perpetrator was a law abiding gun owner right up to today; just like the last nut that went beserk (insert name here) and decided he wanted to take as many others with him before he committed suicide. Just to be clear, I don't have a problem with anyone owning rifles or shotguns for the purposes of hunting, and for defending my home I'd much rather use a shotgun than a handgun or assault rifle (up close you make a bigger hole and your aim doesn't have to be so good). But come on, does anyone really need an assault rifle? Thank you NRA for lobbying to make those legal again (sarcasm, for those who don't get it). In the interests of truth in advertising, I suggest you change your name from the National Rifle Association to the National Handgun Association or National Assault Rifle Association.

@ JimD #1.76

maddog40 wrote:

Restricting gun rights is anti-American and guaranteeing psychiatric medical care for people who suffer from mental illnesses is socialism. Enjoy the ride.

#1.4

If original, excellent. If a quote, good catch.

And tiger quoted statistics that may or may not have been accurate, but, whatever his intent pretty much proved that handguns should be banned. The second amendment, which existed mainly so the Army could get soldiers with weapons and ammo, does not guarantee the right to handguns. And it is the widespread, ridiculously easy availability of handguns, so lovingly promoted by the all-guns-everywhere-all-the-time crowd of paranoid idiots, that makes these incidents so common.

Of course, those idiots do not think that their efforts are responsible. They think the psychos and criminals get their guns from Bulgarian gun smugglers.

Everybody should have guns = all criminals and all psychos will get a gun easily any time they want one.

You gun nut guys should all have J.T. Ready bobble-head dolls on your dashboards. He is, after all, your patron saint.

I might note that I've had a gun for over 40 years.

" The second amendment...does not guarantee the right to handguns."

I think George and the SCOTUS would disagree with you.

“Firearms stand next in importance to the constitution itself. They are the American people’s liberty teeth and keystone under independence … from the hour the Pilgrims landed to the present day, events, occurrences and tendencies prove that to ensure peace security and happiness, the rifle and pistol are equally indispensable … the very atmosphere of firearms anywhere restrains evil interference — they deserve a place of honor with all that’s good.”

George Washington
First President of the United States

District of Columbia v. Heller, 554 U.S. 570 (2008), was a landmark case in which the Supreme Court of the United States held that the Second Amendment to the United States Constitution protects an individual's right to possess a firearm for traditionally lawful purposes, such as self-defense within the home, in federal enclaves.

"....determined that handguns are "arms" for the purposes of the Second Amendment,"

Maybe you should read a little bit more about what the Founding Fathers meant, when they wrote the 2nd amendment. It wasn't just about the Militia, the Minute Man or the Army, it was about personal freedom. But with all freedoms comes responsibilities and some restrictions.

Yes I have the freedom to own a gun (or several), but I am not allowed to murder someone with it. I, also have the freedom of speech, but I am not allowed to make a death threat against someone either.

But I will say this, If the NRA and the gun owners are responsible for "getting a gun into this guys hands" then it is the Liberals responsibility for shutting done all the 'Sanitariums' in which this guys would have been locked up in a few decades ago. (Oh yeah, I remember all the hubbub and beliue in the 60's and 70's about the state and condition of 'Mental Wards' and the Liberals zeal to condemn and shut them down)

We seem to have a lot more "unstable" people walking around in public now for some reason, I wonder why?

@ Jim LaBrue #1.101

I am advocating for the limitation of fire arms that can fire multiple time without reloading. This will not stop all the crazies from getting their hand on a gun and shooting innocent people. But it will reduce it. The fewer of these weapons that can mount a 10, 20 , 50 or 100 round clip in circulation amongst our population the better. Just so you know Scott, I am an Independent. And I am no fool.

You should ask the people of Britain and Australia how that effected the overall crime rates in those countries.

One conceal carry law abiding American citizen should be around to stop this type of threat dead in its tracks.

The second amendment is there to help us not be victims !

But that mall is a gun-free zone. Maybe the signs weren't properly displayed.

Nobody around here bothers with that concealed carry mumbo jumbo. One way certain groups show that they are NOT packing is to raise one pants leg.

Someone's got to put a stop to this $hit. I'm getting sick and tired of the SHOOTINGS that are happening everywhere. I't will become unsafe to go anywhere pretty soon.

Ban handguns.

Can you give an accurate number and link a site to back that up?

Alabama is about the most chit-eating of a state as those that are out there. Why? Do you need a job that badly?

@RooserBoy: According to the U.S. Dept. of Labor Nov 2012 unemployment rates by state: of the 25 states with the worst unemployment rates only 10 voted Republican in the election, of the 10 worst only 2 voted republican....soooooo who needs the jobs. Sounds like you need to fact check before you spew on the internet.

What is wrong is that we live in a violent culture. We always have. We view violence as entertainment.

The local newspaper ran a story about the phenomenal rise in gun sales after Obama was re-elected. Black Friday gun sales were through the roof. This is because some people fear Obama will pass legislation restricting guns.

It's classic NRA-generated paranoia at work. Obama has not restricted guns, in fact he's loosened the restrictions. It is now legal to carry guns in national parks.

But the NRA knows how to push the buttons of the fearful. They've got it down to a science. And their lobbyists with all their money and political clout ensure that no politician who wants to be re-elected will dare to champion any gun restrictions.

Face it, America: the NRA owns us. That's not freedom, it's another form of slavery based upon fear.

Is America still the Land of the Free and the Home of the Brave?

Ban handguns.

Ban modems.

In the hands of the wrong person it's just as deadly as a loaded weapon.

I wonder which well-regulated militia the shooter was a member of?

NYC seems safer than many other places.

Where in Zardoz's comment does he/she say anything about outlawing guns? Didn't see any other comments where "outlawing guns" or anything similar in nature has been stated. Boy, you gun totin' 2nd Amendment junkies sure do get "trigger happy" when people make a comment that does not fit the Oh so sacred 2nd Amendment ideology. Don't worry boys and girls, nobody wants to take away your play toys.

Obama and the UN does..

"nobody wants to take away your play toys"... plenty of commenters on Newsvine do.

You're a liar.

Name one thing President Obama has done to take away your guns? You wackos would blame him for the sun coming up if you wanted to sleep late. Keep you frigging guns just get rid of the gun culture that somehow equates having a big gun with having a big penis.

Obama wants to take away your guns? Really. Is that why in the four years that he has been president the only thing he has done as far as guns is to now allow people to have guns in national parks? Do you have a problem with that? Don't you think if banning weapons were on his agenda he wouldn't have signed on the dotted line the guns okay in national parks deal? What does the UN have to do with the 2nd Amendment? You do know what UN stands for right and what it is?

@ champagne: Who gives a flying phuck what commenters on NV say? Do you know for fact that these commenters are in fact working in Congress or some other government forum where these types of issues are dealt with? Man, you people really need to chill. I'm a liar? You're an idiot.

KimH: Wackos is the perfect word for them!

It's no secret, Obama supports the UN small arms treaty.

For you to read. You do read? I do have to wonder, do you even know what the UN small arms treaty is all about? It's so easy to spout off about something, but don't be under the illusion(or delusion in your case) that a one liner gives you any kind of credibility that you actually know what you speak of.

Here, I dare you to actually read this:

http://www.snopes.com/politics/guns/untreaty.asp

moneyos1 - The UN treaty is against the illicit trade in small arms, light weapons and ammunition worldwide. Key word here being ILLICIT (meaning illegal/criminal) . How could even you be against that?

Most present-day conflicts are fought mainly with small arms, which are broadly used in inter-State conflict. They are the weapons of choice in civil wars and for terrorism, organized crime and gang warfare.

Calm down little buckaroo - if you bought your gun legally and your not out shooting up the neighborhood, I think you can sleep soundly on your cowboy sheets knowing no one is coming to take your gun.

@ AlaskaGirl

For you to read. You do read? I do have to wonder, do you even know what the UN small arms treaty is all about? It's so easy to spout off about something, but don't be under the illusion(or delusion in your case) that a one liner gives you any kind of credibility that you actually know what you speak of.

Here, I dare you to actually read this:

And the ACA wasn't supposed to raise taxes, except on the "rich", Social Security and Income Taxes were never to go above 1%, laws and treaties are subject to change, and so are SCOTUS Rulings. What is true today may not be so next week.

Or do you actually believe the smoke the politicians are blow up your ***...?

I was at the mall to day right in the middle of this all and faced the shooter at about 30-40 feet distands while i was sipping coffee next to the big Chrismas tree,all hell broke out all off a sudden people were running away screaming,dads and mothers with babies and small children in their arms were trying to run but most were laying flat on the floor all over the place,to me there was another guy with him, but the police tells us he was alone, when he turned around i looked him staight in the face and he had a white mask over his face, I went face down and wormed my way father away from him,he was jelling loud and kept shooting when I found my way back to the Best Buy store were i had been 10 min ago to look for an IPad I found a young woman laying face down in all that scattered window glass blood all over her,she did not move and did not react at all she might have been dead but I do not know for sure somebody else came over to stay with her and to wait for a nurse or dokter,and I started to look for my wife and daughter and found them back save but severely shocked,they will be ok it takes some time. You bet we never forget this Christmas shopping day.How can somebody carry an semi automatic assault rifle in a shopping mall,this was not a small metal part,while they have security people to keep an eye out ????

@AlaskaGirl-759554 you got no credibility. You voted in a hocky mom to be Governor of your state.

Oh, jeez you are ignorant, slimyone. No, for your information I did not vote for that fool. Didn't vote for the C then and sure as hell didn't vote for her and McCain in 2008. What else ya got? And, who did YOU vote for in 2008? Hmmmm?

But it only takes 1 armed citizen to stop or scare off a shooter.

People already have the right to own guns, why aren't shooters already being scared away or stopped? unless you are suggesting it should be mandatory for everyone to armed, because shooters can't magically know if someone is armed before they commit murder.

True, but in some states it's very difficult and/or expensive to get a CC permit. That's why more of these incidents aren't stopped.

People already have the right to own guns, why aren't shooters already being scared away or stopped?

That's right! You figured that out, huh? Dunno why so many others here have failed to do the same...

Other people being armed would not help this. It is not like a movie. In real life what happend during a shooting is that you hear shooting and you pull out your registered handgun. You see another person with a gun. Is he another concerned citizen or the perpetrator? I don't know. They don't wear a sign (I am the bad guy). All you can do with your legal hand gun is to take cover and wait for someone to come up and aim at you and then shoot them. With that not being the case then the perp is going around the mall shooting and you being armed has not solved anything.

I agree. Some common sense should apply.

1. There is a ban on fully automatic weapons

2. Putting a restriction on magazine size would only mean the shooter has to reload more, and it takes just a moment to do so.

3. Did Clinton's ban on "assault weapons" back in the '90s reduce violence?

While we're at it we should put some regulations on speech... look what happened to that poor nurse just because of some stray words.

It says "well regulated" in the 2nd amendment. That is what we currently do not have.

Umm yes, cow, that is the whole point. The time it takes to reload can make a difference in lives saved or lost. It may not seem like that much time, but it is enough to get a bit farther hidden or down or give police another little bit of time to get there...or a tiny bit of time for someone to jump him. It does matter.

I really wish all you "ban automatic weapons" idiots would learn the law before you spout off. In 1934 a Federal law was enacted that any person wanting to purchase an automatic weapon had to have the permission of his local police, undergo a Federal background check, and pay a high tax. Despite only two lawfully owned automatic weapons being used in the commission of crimes in the next 50 years, one of those by a police officer, in 1984 all sales of automatic weapons made after that date were outlawed except to government agencies and to licensed dealers who sell to government agencies. That law has not been repealed.

So what you are demanding that the government ban was banned more than quarter century ago.

@miklkit. People a lot smarter than you have tried to parse the 2nd to make it read what they want. Give it up.

It says "well regulated" in the 2nd amendment. That is what we currently do not have.

It actually says "well regulated MILITIA" in the 2nd amendment (but so many fail to read the entire amendment, don't they?)

You can't ban guns because guns are already in existence. On the other hand any person that says that they don't believe that if there were no guns then this story would never happen must have never been in a fight. If you have ever been in a fight you know how hard it is to kill a person. You fight them and they just will not die. They will bleed all over the place but you just can't get them to die. A gun makes it so that even the wimpiest person can get you to die.

People are shot and killed everyday. The national media only reports the sensational shootings that will help advance their anti-gun agenda,

Wow! You aren't very bright are you?

It's Christmastime....and suicides and their victims always go up. Wait until Dec. 21st...should be an interesting day worldwide. You think its going to stop because Christmas is coming?

I'm licensed to carry....and if you pull some sh*t, I'm going to shoot you. Period. My state ALLOWS it.

Hey, I carry too sometimes. If I see you whip one out guess who I'm going to be aiming for?

SMH! people must be very weak to want to commit suicide and shoot a bunch of people to death just because it's the holiday season! You should be happy this time of year!

Lotta real positive responses here.....LOL....what joke!!

Or, the economy is getting worse and desperate people do desperate things.

Or, anti-2A people are latching on to a crazy person's actions to advance their cause. You'll never stop stuff like this from happening-- even if they banned everything right now. Crazy people and criminals can always get weapons.

What a retarded comment!

#14.1

A await with great anticipation your Grand Plan to get the criminals to give up their guns.

Blaming guns for violence is no different than blaming spoons for making Rosie O'Donnell fat.

Oh, and Portland isn't exactly a bastion of Conservatism, is it?

That was a retarded comment. Period. Nothing you say will change that.

And you're also too stupid to realize that, in most of the country, it's easier to get a gun than a driver's license. There actually ARE more restrictive car laws, you dumb sh!t.

And that guns/spoons comparison was retarded, too.

Car laws are far MORE restrictive than guns laws. Last I checked, for me to legally own and operate a car, I had to prove I could drive it correctly and carry insurance. To own a gun? Pass a 3 day background check and walk out the door fully loaded. Im surprised pro gun people still try to bring cars into this considering their are so many ways to disprove your points or make them invalid. Cars don't fit in your pocket, are not designed to kill people, are more heavily regulated, and dont travel as fast a bullet (giving you time to get out of the way). People use guns to KILL things, if cars were just as effective at killing people than I guess we would see people getting run over all the time.

(and I own guns but am not a gun nut)

That was a retarded comment. Period. Nothing you say will change that.

Judge much, "God"?

in most of the country, it's easier to get a gun than a driver's license.

Speculation.

[delete remaining CoH violations]

Last I checked, for me to legally own and operate a car, I had to prove I could drive it correctly and carry insurance.

Not for crooks.

To own a gun? Pass a 3 day background check and walk out the door fully loaded.

Not for crooks.

.

Cars don't fit in your pocket, are not designed to kill people, are more heavily regulated, and dont travel as fast a bullet (giving you time to get out of the way).

Yet cars kill more people than firearms homicide, by a factor of almost three.

People use guns to KILL things,

Mine haven't killed anyone. Do you suppose they're defective?

.

The spoon gun comparison is actually pretty accurate, both are tools that require an accountable person to use them. When are we going to start holding persons responsible and stop blaming inadimate objects.

We all flip a b1tch when news reports a person who legally obtained a firearm kills innocents, but how many persons are killed DAILY by criminals that are never reported. Apparently they did not follow the gun laws. ONLY people that would are the law abiding victims.

This was actually in response to Bob Costa's inappropriate rant, but is relevant here as well:

Your gun's not defective Steven. Try taking it out of the safe, remove the trigger lock, put bullets in it and set it on your nightstand and when some dirtbag climbs in your window at night, test it. I bet it works fine..

But wait, dont you mean drivers kill people?? Ive never seen a car drive itself and decide to kill someone?? Car deaths are due to ACCIDENTS. Nobody said driving a car is safe. Neither is flying in a plane. Ive never met anyone who deicided to set out and get in a accident on purpose. Yet killers with guns do just that. You dont fire a gun at somone w/o the intention to kill. As the great guys a magpul said "their is nothing defenisive about firing a gun at another human being" . Im not advoacating to take guns away. However I do think we should have better gun handling and training prior to owning a firearm. Guns use by crooks are used becasue they kill people easily and are (again) easy to conceal. Saying we dont have a fire arms issue in the US is simply wrong. And to try to detract from the main by point by making a silly "cars law" comment is just not right. I doubt your guns are defective, if somone came into your house right now Im sure you sentecne would go from havent killed anyone to have killed someone. Everyone who own a gun legally can become a "crook" in a split second. All it takes is for you to improperly use your gun.

Steve: Judge much, "God"?

Yes. You fail.

Let me ask you this. How @!$%#ed do you think the roads would be if all you had to do to get a car was simply buy one? No regulations, minimal laws, no drivers license, and minimal restrictions. @!$%# would happen all the time. And then people would cry about how its their (ooh i dunno, lets say, 2nd amendment right to own a car). So people would say we need better regulations and laws, like what we have now. But still the pro 2nd amendment guys refuse to admit that we have any problem with cars and scream and cry about "their" rights. This is essentially what we are doing now, but with guns. Again, it doesn't need to be more restrict, but better regulated.

-god

Would you kindly refrain from using the "r" word that I saw multiple times in your posts. It is a very insulting and hurtful word to those with developmental, mental and other challenges. As the parent of a special needs child I find the usage of this word unacceptable. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion but I kindly ask that you please consider the choice of words that you use to voice yours. Thank you.

shanaldo 869841 & moneyos1: the only thng you two knuckleheads would shoot off is your mouths! i'm calling BS on all of your billy bad azz comments dawg.i am the bs spotter! its what i do

Let's see here....Ohh I can't leaglly drive yet, let me steal this car and joy ride (maybe even kill a pedestrian/passenger/another driver). Ohh I just got convicted of my first DUI...let me get through my suspension, AA classes, then get SR-22 insurance then legally drive again (differs state to state). Convicted of Vehicular Manslaughter...ok have to go to jail, take more drivers courses, get through a longer suspension, get expensive insurance, then drive again (differs state to state).

Even though states/circumstances may differ you can be charged with a felony on all the above, which then means.....you can't legally purchase a gun...so now lets talk about stricter gun/auto laws

Yep.

Danny - Love your avatar.

On behalf of the NRA and Gun "Makers" they thank you.

Thank you Papermate for making writing instruments that misspell words. And thanks to Cutco for making spoons that made people fat.

You have the right to submit.

Leave the rest of us the f'k alone.

SUBMIT. Wow. That's what the Indians did and look how well that turned out. How many Jews would be alive today if they would have been able to fight? Why don't you move to some Nirvana type country that does not allow private gun ownership like North Korea or China and start running your pie hole? SUBMIT. This is a tragedy nothing less.

@stonepipe - or Japan? btw....

Unable to because Portland has banned loaded firearms in all public places

Liberal gun hating areas don't have us "gun toters" loitering in your malls, sorry. We are not breaking the laws by wearing our guns like rambo at the mall, we are busy practicing responsible safe weapon use. I am going to protect MY family not the gun-blaming anti 2nd amendment sheeple. Hiltler, Castro, Mao Tse-tung, Pol Pot, Stalin club: step one, disarm the civilians. Get educated and stop expecting OTHERS to do it for you. Push your lawmakers to enforce the laws we HAVE and not to ban guns. Our Second Amendment is to protect ourselves from our Government, or to protect our country, not so those who still believe in the Constitution can save you from petty criminals. You are supposed to be able to protect yourself.

@cowboyfan95 - True, the City of Portland (and a few other municipalities in the state) does ban loaded firearms...but Oregon State Law states that can only be enforced on non-CHL holders. Folks who have a valid CHL can definitely carry loaded firearms, as long as they are concealed.

Have any of you anti's noticed that these incidents always occur in "Gun Free Zones"? Denying people the right to self defense only leads to more violent crime. Do some research and look at the crime stats in places like Chicago and Washington D.C. to see what happens when you 'ban' firearms. Now look at the stats for Kennesaw, Georgia. Hmmm. Interesting.

No it was Socialist Libtard, did you not know they also kiil people with guns....... A sick person is a sick person......

or a democrat!

Guilt by Liberal slander. Maybe Jamie Foxx has some stupid things to say.

No it was Socialist Libtard, did you not know they also kiil people with guns....... A sick person is a sick person......

By tea party I wasn't referring to politics.

I was referring to the bees.

If that makes any sense. Which unless you see some of my theories about bees dying and the ubee modem and people like Josh Powell might not make much sense at all.

mike-32658799

Mike, here's a hint. AUTOMATIC "assault" weapons are very highly restricted by the Federal Government. It requires a special license to acquire one.

When you KNOW what you speak about then post your theories.

Hello XD- been gone but glad you are keeping up the good fight.

It has been reported that they recovered an AR15 a semi-auto rifle i.e. one trigger pull one round fired. No assault rifles have been reported recovered.

To buy an automatic weapon legally requires a Class 3 FFL.

Bingo.

God I love it when a woman talks firearms...especially when she knows what she's talking about! Nice job, Jennifer Granholm.

AUTOMATIC assault weapons are illegal. you should know your topic better before commenting.

Jennifer Granholm

Actually Jennifer you do not need to be a Class 3 dealer to possess an fully automatic firearm. All you need to have, is the money to buy one,right now about $14, 000 for a M-16 that was made before the 1968 law to restrict the sale, fill out a BATFE form 4, pay the $200 tax stamp fee and hope that you can pass the background check by the BATFE, which will usually take 9 months to a year. All of this is after you find a Class 3 dealer who has one for sale. It isn't easy but they can be had. Crimes by legally owned fully automatic weapons are a scarce as hens teeth, but you are wasting your breath trying to educate the anti gun people about this. Our government has provided more fully auto weapons and other destructive devices in the last few years to enemies of our country, than Class 3 dealers have provided to honest american citizens in the last ten years.

AUTOMATIC "assault" weapons are very highly restricted

And that is a highly redundant phrase.

To add to what MR T said:

Any automatic weapon made after 19 May 1986 (date of when Firearm Owners' Protection Act (FOPA), Pub.L. 99-308, 100 Stat. 449 was enacted) is illegal to own, no ifs, ands, buts or grandfathering. The weapon also has to be legal in your state of residence, you have to notify the BATF in advance if you cross state lines with it, you can't loan it to a friend, you can't store it anyplace else such as a friend's house in a manner that will let them have access to it. And you get to play show and tell any time the ATF wants to see it.

Saw an M1918 BAR at a gun show last winter, price tag was $12,000.

Here's a good rundown of everything:

http://targetworld.net/Steps%20for%20buying%20NFA%20(Class%20III%20Weaponry)%2011-3-07.pdf

you and Obama wife should just leave the USA, you think this is the only placed people get killed? Try Iran for a week

Michelle.... is that you? I thought you were now proud of America.

This place has never been "love it or leave it," it's "fix it or lose it."

XDm9mm

that was funny! I agree!

LEAVE.

@madcitizen: Do you still live in the country that you despise so much? What country do you live in or want to live in instead? I'm not a big fan either, but I try to change things, get involved, educate people, etc, instead of hating my country...

I'm with you... Canada is looking better and better each day.

Why wait why not leave? There are hundreds of other countries to live in besides the U.S. I never thought I'd have a gun. One of the reasons I left AZ was because I seriously contemplated getting a gun just to drive back and forth to work in the late 80's. Now after 23 yrs of living the a "safer" community/state I am again not only contemplating, I am buying a gun and learning to use it.