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Subscribe to RSSPolice say they still don't know why 22-year old Jacob Tyler Roberts, who hadno criminal past, shot two people dead and injured a third before turning his gun on himself at an Oregon mall.NBC's Mike Taibbi reports.
The man who shot two people to death and wounded another at an Oregon shopping mall had suffered a series of setbacks in the past year, but those who knew him say they are mystified by his violent assault.
Jacob Tyler Roberts, 22, had lost his driver's license after a couple of speeding tickets, broken up with his girlfriend, been evicted from his apartment, then quit his job and told friends he was going to Hawaii -- only to apparently miss his flight last weekend.
Roberts was identified Wednesday as the man who opened fire in the food court of the crowded Clackamas Town Center southeast of Portland. Steven Mathew Forsyth, 45, and Cindy Ann Yuille, 54, were killed, and Kristina Shevchenko, 15, was wounded before Roberts turned the gun on himself.
Police say Roberts did not have a criminal history, but that he stole the AR-15 rifle that he used in the shooting. Roberts killed himself at the mall.
Roberts' Facebook page listed shooting as one of his interests, NBC Mike Taibbi reported on TODAY on Thursday.
Before quitting his job, Roberts told co-workers at the sandwich shop where he worked that he had inherited money and planned to travel to Hawaii and perhaps move there. His ex-girlfriend, Hannah Sansburn, 20, told ABC News that he sold all of his belongings in preparation for moving.
"He had his plane ticket and was ready to go," she said. "He was supposed to catch a flight Saturday and I texted him, and asked how his flight went, and he told me, 'Oh, I got drunk and didn't make the flight.'"
The last time Sansburn saw Roberts -- a week ago -- she noticed he seemed "numb."
"I just talked to him, stayed the night with him, and he just seemed numb if anything. He's usually very bubbly and happy, and I asked him why, what had changed, and [he] said 'nothing.' He just had so much he had to do before he went to Hawaii that he was trying to distance himself from Portland," Sansburn said.
She told ABC she wondered if Roberts was ever really planning on moving, and said she was shocked he could have committed such a terrible act.
“The person I knew would have never ever done anything like done this. Not in a million years,” she said. “He was just too sweet. Never mean to anybody.”
According to a profile in The Oregonian newspaper, a friend of Roberts' stepfather said Roberts had planned to enter the Navy after graduating from Oregon City High School in 2008 but couldn't because of an injury.
"After that, everything kind of fell apart for him," Rosalie DeDore told the newspaper.
Swarming police response in mall shooting highlights 'paradigm shift'
Oregon mall gunman ID'd; motive unclear
Jacob Tyler Roberts, 22
A friend, Benjamin Eshbach, described Roberts as fun and light-hearted.
"It's a very difficult thing to wrap my head around," Eshbach, who said he played chess with Roberts and went out with him, told the newspaper. "It's hard to imagine him being any other way. Something doesn't fit."
In recent months, Roberts had moved into the basement of a small home in southeast Portland with two roommates, according to neighbors who told NBC station KGW that he seemed like a nice man.
Roberts went to Clackamas Community College in 2009, but withdrew after his first year of classes, reported KGW. In high school, he had been an "average" student who didn't do extracurricular activities, and had no disciplinary actions on his record, district officials told KGW.
On Wednesday, Roberts' aunt provided a hand-written note through a friend to reporters apologizing for his behavior. KATU of Portland reported that family friends said Tami Roberts is Roberts' aunt but raised him. She wrote that she had "no understanding or explanation for her son's behavior" and adding she was "very sad and wants everyone to know that she is so sorry what Jake did, it's so out of his character."
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$10 bucks says this kid was on prescription antidepressants, they always are.
Instead of a gun if he had stolen a knife - would he have killed as many people? Probably not.
A 17-year-old in China last August killed 8 people and wounded 5 with a knife.
Wanna rethink that?
Let me explain something to you that you may not understand. The simpler attack is always the more deadly one. If you want to kill a lot of people then the more complicated weapon you pick lessens your ability to carry out the deed.
Far and away, fire is the simplest weapon and the deadliest. If you want to kill a lot of people then light a place on fire. That was Al Quaeda's reasoning to hit the World Trade Center with planes full of jet fuel.
Your second best bet is a bomb. That's why terrorists use them extensively. Terrorists certainly have guns, but they rarely use them because they're not effective.
Why are guns not effective for mass homicide? Well, the reason is because you get one shot and then everybody in range knows somebody is shooting. They're going to run, and they're going to escape with the exception of a few. Most guns are not good for hitting moving targets, shotguns actually are but the problem with shotguns is that they have very limited range. You don't see people skeet shooting with rifles for the main reason that it doesn't work.
Anyone who shoots for real knows about breathing in aiming. You have to be able to control your breath in order to shoot worth a tinker's damn. If your chest is heaving and you're trying to keep a sight picture on target, then that's not going to work well for you. It's almost like diving. You need that deep breath, hold it, and then use the oxygen you've got to do the job. If you think you're going to run and gun and be accurate while you're half out of breath, then that ain't happening. You won't hit jack past 10 meters. The body moves too much under stress.
New York cops, TRAINED to shoot, fired 92 times this year. Of those 92 uses of lethal force by trained professionals in the art of lethal force with firearms, only 9 deaths occurred. The cops missed the mark over 90% of the time this year.
Knives don't miss as often. The simpler the weapon, the deadlier it is.
Face It People; ALL Guns are made for Defense/Offense. This kid Was Criminally Insane all alone without Psychiatric Therapy and that crappy AR-15 Did NOT Jump into his Hands All By Itself. Our American Society Glorifys, Gamifys and Otherwise Embraces Killing Violence 24/7. Children can go to a GameStore/ SuperMarket Kiosk and Buy/Rent Games of EXTREME VIOLENCE AND KILLING and bring them home to play on their players. America Is Number One in Violence, OR Otherwise would not be the "World's Cop" which requires standing Armies and Wars Waged "Whenever". Now, with All that Money SPENT, We, America, "Are Not Allowed" to have An American Universal HealthCare System with Full Psychiatric Teams and Authority as The Sane Countries HAVE; That FACT IS A National DISGRACE!!! AND THE WORK of the POWERFUL Insurance Industry and RolledOver/Butt Reamed Crapola Politicos In Power On THE Hill. We Demand Change??? OK!, We kept the Aristocrat's Good Ole' Boys, Rommel and Lyin'Ryan OUT, Now The BIG JOB: Flushing the Politico "LawMaker" SEWAGE Out of Capital Hill, Now Known as Crapital Hill. And Ironically, You Know What???? That Politico Human Effluence won't go WithOut A Fight, which Means Gun Violence And Lots Of It....One Hell Of A situation.................
It may have been "Out of Character for him to be doing something like this".......as they say. Listen......ALL of US.....in life.....go through "SETBACKS" like this young man......BUT......we ALL learn to PICK ourselves up...and go on, REGARDLESS.
NOTHING is worth our LIFE....or SOMEONE ELSE'S........There is always a POSITIVE way out......It takes TIME....and maybe a LITTLE PATIENCE..... because.....when we look at OTHER PEOPLE'S LIVES........EVEN they could be a LITTLE WORSE OFF than we are........In this world.
I look at this man as IMMATURE......and CHILDISH......He never grew up to be an adult. Maybe always EXPECTING......for things to go "His way" or the HIGHWAY. There are people like this....always "expecting" things they can't have, or NOT willing TO WORK FOR.
Another word I can add to this besides being IMMATURE....is ..........IRRESPONSIBLE. I have met these types in my lifetime.
THEY ARE TOTAL FAILURES....... Like that homeless man who was given a NEW PAIR of SHOES.....and he was "without his shoes" when last seen.
" YOU CAN LEAD A HORSE TO THE WATER....BUT YOU JUST CAN'T MAKE HIM DRINK".
PJ-1795048....maybe if he had stolen a car...run down a few dozen..or stolen a bomb...killed a few hundred...or stolen a loaf of bread...no wait...
What is it that makes people kill innocent people that never did anything to hurt them? What a pitiful waste. Condolences to the victims and their families. This kid probably had little guidance growing up without either of his parents and those are the ones that usually go down the wrong path.
Oh, and keep those assault rifles and hand guns coming folks and we are just going to see more and more of this crap.
Honestly, the biggest danger with guns is spray into a mass of people. According to another article on this, they suspect the gun jammed. If that is true, than more people may have gotten hurt and even died as a result had that not happened. Clip size is critical because how ever many bullets a gunman can enter into a clip is however many shots an attacker like this can get off. Eventually, the attacker must reload and that is generally when they are subdued. While guns do need to be regulated a little more as far as who they are sold to and license requirements, clip size is probably the biggest killer. (Note I am not against owning guns or the second amendment. Just a little tighter handle on it.) Not all of the bullets hit and not all the hits kill. But they certainly do damage when fired into crowds one after the other.
PJ, so tell me why Timothy McVeigh didn't use a gun...
Remember that Guy in Japan who went on a rampage and killed 7 people. Three with his car and then four with a knife. Obviously a gun makes it easier, but people will find any tool they can when they are that determined to kill. If guns had been outlawed when this guy decided to go on a killing spree do you think he would have just elected to not do it because he didn't have a gun? Seems pretty unlikely.
So all these examples are so lame and extreme. You pick the most ridiculous example and make it sound as if - without guns - there are ample choices that people can use to kill other people.
Well sure there are. But then why in US people like this man, who go on rampage, prefer guns? Why don't they just take a knife and run into a theater? Or burn down a school or bomb a building? The reason we see more people using guns is because they are easy to acquire - easy to use and yes that means easy to kill.
PJ,
People like you are so easily confused by facts. Ok, smart guy, what is you brilliant answer? Please enlighten us.
Yes, but what are the odds of one choosing a knife over a gun? And these acts are complete anamolies compared to those committed with firearms.
This poster then goes on claiming that this guy could have just as easily used a knife. THE FACTS are that 95% of the time people hellbent on hurting others choose a firearm. If a person has access to a firearm that is almost always the choice and the more firearms that are available in this country the more likely one will be available to them. Nearly every gun related crime in this country was committed with a firearm that was once legally purchased by a so-called responsible gun owner.
So sick and tired of these gun supporters using these same stale, and pardon me but rather insipid arguments. Foolishness like the above example or the comparing of automobiles to guns. You would think that by now one of them would come up with a rational argument but they simply seem incapable.
FATALITY RATES FROM GUN AND KNIFE ATTACKS
Chicago police records include data which permit useful comparison between serious knife and gun attacks and between knife and gun killings. (See Table 6.) For 1967, these data show:
2.3 times as many serious knife attacks were reported to the police as gun attacks.
Knives accounted for less than half the number of homicides that guns did.
The rate of knife deaths per 100 reported knife attacks was less than 1/5 the rate of gun deaths per 100 reported gun attacks.
From:
University of Chicago Law Review
35 (1968): 721.
A gun in the hands of a person like this who does not seem to have a background in guns saved a lot of peoples lives probably. Bigges reason a gun jams is trying to fire it too fast! People who are not trined on the use of weapons like th one can jam the easily and most do!
We all have a breaking point and few of us know when that occurs. Most of us do simple things like wringing our hands sitting in a corner crying fo a bit banging our head against the wall or whatever. Some feel the need to make a statement by seeking a big splash so to speak so people could remember them and since killing themselves will not do that for them they decide to take a bunch of people with them. Now days the culture we have with the gun thing being so prominent it is the easy way for some to make their final statement. Others take the explosion route etc. Me I cannot see how that makes any sense but I am a pacifist.
Antidepressants help a lot of people get better. For people that do these things while taking medication, it's more likely that it's in spite of it rather than because of it.
Is there any current or more recent data on gun and knife attacks?
Phoenix, I have not seen it. However, I expect that since 1967 guns have become more deadly and easy to use so their efficiency in killing as compared to knives will have gone up.
@Alan3008
It is really easy to blame the guns and not people. Ask yourself this, why was this young man being raised by his aunt? In today's society we have more children being raised by someone other than their parents...why is this? We have parents afraid to discipline their children and they hand their kids everything on a silver platter and "it is always someone eles fault." Our family values and morals are on the decline. Everyone one thinks they are entitled to have fancy cars, clothes and cell phones just to name a few and they think someone else is going to provide these things for them instead of getting off their a$$es and working for those things. There is something most definitely wrong here in the USA and it is not the guns.
Wow, MeanGene, great post. However, it makes me wonder why you've thought this through so thoroughly. Haha.
wait for the Coroners report; he was on some type of drugs(legal or illegal), he snapped out of character.
i gotta say i think there's a major point here that's being missed. While i can absolutely understand all of the anger that is directed towards this person for their actions ( i often wonder why people like this don't just wake up in the morning and kill themselves instead of bringing harm onto innocent people before they kill themselves) there's a level of desperation here that's going unnoticed.
This past year we've seen:
a guy on drugs eat a homeless mans face off in Miami
a man in NYC shooting people outside of the building he used to work in
a guy in Jeresy shooting up a strip mall
the movie theatre incident in Aurora
another strip mall shooting in Washington State
an angry farmer from Vermont taking his tractor and destroying all of the state trooper vehicles at the nearby station
that's not even the fully tally of desperation in action this year...
..all of these people experienced 'loss' before their rampages. and again, i'm not trying to justify this... i'm only pointing out that these are not isolated incidents. and while i totally agree with a lot of the above opinions in regards to 'things getting better with time' these things are happening with increasing frequency. what may be true in reality is not ringing true with the ever increasing number of desperate people in our country.
i don't know if anyone's ever read the Foundation novels by Issac Asimov but if you look at this on the societal level and not the individual level you can begin to see an alarming nation wide cry for help.
"Instead of a gun if he had stolen a knife - would he have killed as many people? Probably not."
In 2001 terrorist murdered several thousand people with nothing more than box cutters.
Well stull, we don't know, but judging by the rest of what you said, you already decided that they were deadbeats. Perhaps they weren't and are just simply dead? Perhaps they died tragically in a car accident? Perhaps that added to any mental problems he might have had too. Regardless, he had no criminal history and no record of being anything but an 'average' student at school. Perhaps his aunt didn't do a bad job and, y'know, @!$%# just happened?
This isn't shocking as this is the result of the inept obama economic failures. This incident hits close to home as I live 50mi. from Clackamas County, and the crime rate for burglery in the county I live in is astronomical sence obama was first elected. Desperate people do desperate things as the desperate are left feeling helpless. Things could be better if obama never wasted stimulas money on companies that just failed, and if obama would buy a clue he would end foriegn aid as our nation is the one in need. Really sad that our taxes have to go up to pay for aid to other countries. Stopping the aid would save BILLIONS each year, and would go a long way to helping our ecomoney recover.
I love the gun nuts here. You people are going out on the far-fetched limb to defend guns. Let's face it, it's hard to achieve mass murder without a gun. That's just the reality that you keep trying to pretend doesn't exist. As for this young man, my money is on mental illness. Most likely bi-polar disorder, as he is the right age for his first serious manic/depressive cycle. Him selling up everything for a trip to Hawaii is one of the signs. The drinking would trigger off rapid cycling. And, if he was taking anti-depressants, it would also lead to rapid cycling, as bi-polars are NOT suppose to take them, as they make things worse. If he was misdiagnosed with simple depression and was given anti-depressants by a primary care doc, that would do it. If he started taking them, it would trigger off rapid cycling and would lead to all this. That's why primary docs should NOT be prescribing psych meds. It's like asking him to do heart surgery. It's not their specialty but because insurance companies don't like them telling patients that they can go to psychiatrists without a referral, they discourage primaries from referring them to psychiatrists. Mental health is woefully under-treated and mistreated in this country.
@chuck - some wise man said - problem well recognized is half solved. So if you even recognize that there is a problem of easy availability of guns that can spray bullets then there is your half solution.
Anyone here trying to justify this in anyway is a fool.
For the media to print...MURDER was NICE GUY is really really stupid and foolish
A piece of @!$%# is a piece of @!$%#.... no matter how you wrap it.
@ Stull,
Oh we blame the people. We just think guns should be regulated a little more to prevent them from winding up in the hands of those said people a little more often. No it will not stop all the tragedies, and no it won't prevent rampages with other weapons. But it may stop or lessen some of the more preventable ones. Here's what I personally believe gun control should focus on:
Licenses:
I believe that not only should be required to qualify for a license to own a gun, but that their should be certain requirements to do so. Some are already required, some are partially required, and some are not.
1. Person must be eligible of age. Obvious.
2. Person must be considered mentally stable enough to own a gun. Seemingly obvious, but there is more to it. This includes a test for that in order to qualify for guns whether or not they have been tested in the past. I don't know about you, but I don't want someone with schizophrenia, bipolar, or major depression running around with a gun.
3. Person must have a clean criminal record. Again, obvious one. This includes thorough background checks to make sure there is no history of major or concerning criminal activities in order to qualify for license. Certain minor crimes might be excusable depending on the situation and what they are, but most things would not be. I am not the person to ask on exactly what should be exceptions to this.
4. Person must re-qualify every few years or so (I figure 3-5 is a good number) in order to renew license. Re-qualification includes new background check and mental health test because those things can change. I am not even talking about every year here. Just every 3-5. Maybe a person more an expert on this has a better period of time for re-qualification. Minor details.
5. There must be an initial waiting period to receive said gun license for those who apply. This would hopefully prevent people applying for guns to commit spur of the moment crimes (or crimes on a bad whim) to commit gun crimes on mere impulses. I don't know the exact number, but somewhere between 1-3 months seems good to me. Perhaps someone who is more of an expert would be better informed on a good period of time for this. It is mostly for first timers. Waiting period DOES NOT apply to those who successfully re-qualify within given time.
Those things which are not already required to this degree should be regulated to this degree. Those things that are can be left alone or possibly lessened if they go overboard.
Clip size:
As I said before, large clip size is a major killer:
"Clip size is critical because how ever many bullets a gunman can enter into a clip is however many shots an attacker like this can get off. Eventually, the attacker must reload and that is generally when they are subdued. While guns do need to be regulated a little more as far as who they are sold to and license requirements, clip size is probably the biggest killer. (Note I am not against owning guns or the second amendment. Just a little tighter handle on it.) Not all of the bullets hit and not all the hits kill. But they certainly do damage when fired into crowds one after the other."
We already have laws on this, but they don't go quite far enough.
Better regulation of who sells guns:
1. Guns should only be sold to licensed individuals. We already have this law, but all too often in places like at gun fairs, people with no license are sold guns anyway because the vendor wants to make money. Those who do not follow this do not get the right to sell guns.
2. All legal gun sellers must qualify for a specific license to sell guns. This is a similar concept to a liquor license, except possibly a bit more restrictive. I also don't think guns should be sold on the street but only in specifically approved stores/shops. Those who do not follow this are breaking the law and subject to the consequences.
3. Individuals looking to sell guns who do not have these approved stores or shops must do so in must go to specific areas to sell them or trade them in with licensed shops/stores. I'm not talking about anything casual here. Those areas would have heavy law enforcement and security. Individuals without the required licenses to own guns would be breaking the law by owning said guns.
4. We must increase the frequency of inspections to places that sell guns or allow the selling of guns. Far too often, we find out about undesirable gun sales practices after the tragedy strikes. We must be more proactive in this. Those who don't comply with lawful inspectors are obviously shut down by default.
Conclusion:
This is merely an example of what could be done. Again, much of this is already done. Some is only partially done. Some of this is law but not enforced well enough. But I don't think it is all that unreasonable to have requirements like this and tighter enforcement around these requirements. No it will not prevent all murders or stop every gun tragedy, but better regulation and enforcement might lower the sheer number of them. This hardly takes away the second amendment rights. We just have to be smarter about this.
Back in the 1970's I worked with a young man who came from a upper middle class family.He was nice,smart,funny,kind and a devout christian.A girl dumped him for the father of her child so he stole a gun and a bottle of vodka from a friends mountain cabin,drove to the alley behind this girls house and blew his brains out.thank God he only took his own life.Looking back now,I was only 24 at the time,all of the signs of his fragile state of mind were right there in front of our eyes.
Our society has created some of this by telling kids that they can be and do whatever they want. Children are not allowed to fail in anything. We don't want to upset them or hurt any feelings. Teachers can't fail students even if they do zero work. All teams get trophys whether they win or lose. Consequently, when they are grown and things do go wrong in the real world (as it usually does) their whole existance is shattered. They don't know how to handle disappointment or rejection. This is evidenced in the "bullying" causing some to commit suicide. How sad! We need to allow children to experience failure and disappointment and learn coping skills, IMHO.
PJ - guns are commonly used only because you can easily kill yourself with one if you do indeed go on a mass murdering spree. Getting rid of guns will have little effect on the will of a psychopath.
Let's just make this piece of sh!t as famous and likable as possible. Oh yeah, nice folks are likely terrorists too now. NBC is irresponsible in their editorial conduct, these stories cause way more of these incidents than availability of guns. Freedom of the press is a precious right, but NBC wields that freedom lie a nut with a gun wields it in a shopping mall.
god of fate, they aren't clips, they're called magazines. A clip isn't the same thing. Magazines are cheap, so you can buy quite a few of them. It only takes a couple seconds to drop the empty mag, and insert a fresh one. The normal size ones are far more reliable the the high capacity ones which can jam and not feed properly. I've shot the M-16, which is the fully automatic version of the AR-15, in the Military, and have also owned semi-automatic pistols with magazines. This guy would have used whatever gun he could get his hands on, so banning certain guns or hi-capacity magazines isn't going to change anything. He would have injured or killed more people if he had driven his car inside the mall. I'm sure there wouldn't be a call to ban cars afterwards.
The one who knows the truth is dead. The ones who don’t have a clue you can’t shut them up.
@Ralph J. Monasterio
You make a lot of leaps and bounds in your statements that make no sense. He is a young man who for whatever reason did not grow up with his own parents. We do not know what kind of mental anguish this puts on someone when they are young. I am raising my young grandson since 4 months of age, his mom is in and out of his life and it puts so much stress on him because he doesn't feel like the one person he wants to love him the most actually loves him. He feels like there is something wrong with him because his mom cannot love him. There isn't anything I can say or do to change his feelings on this. It is the same with this young man, having been raised by an aunt, not his parents, I am sure he has had similar feelings.
There is something that changed in his life in the last little while and unfortunately we don't know what this is but it would not surprise me if it had to do with him feeling he didn't belong anywhere. It is not normal for a child to grow up without a parent. I am in no way excusing his actions because he could have turned to someone for help and didn't, I am just trying to show the other side of the coin because I don't believe it was someone who felt they were entitled to things and to those who automatically think that, they are not looking at all the circumstances of his life that contributed to him doing this terrible act. Just don't assume things because you end up looking like and ass.(ume)
As an older guy who has been in and out of @!$%# for 64 years, I never once considered suicide. Kids today grow up in this lost computer/sci-fi world of killer games and life and death seem so distant for them. I have heard a lot of younger people, mainly from the ghetto say they don't expect to live past 25. If he didn't have a father figure growing up to guide and commiserate with, that can be crucial.
@ BP the grape,
And would you rather 10 bullets empty into the crowd in a couple seconds, or 30?
Don't pretend that more bullets fired into a crowd gets better or same results. Of course it would be worse. Further more, every time the shooter runs out of bullets he/she has to reload. That reload period is time that other people have to get away/subdue them if possible. Even a few seconds can make a huge difference. The less bullets in a clip/magazine/insert anal term here, the more the shooter has to reload and the less rounds he can fire in between. The difference in time AND bullets fired certainly adds up fast. It's not hard to figure this out.
Also, the detachable magazine is often called a "clip." There was no need to correct me because you think you know guns better than you really do.
If you outlaw guns, only outlaws will have guns. People will still get them just out of sight of the law.
JustMe,I have a mentally sister.My mother and stepfather raised my niece.She never felt unloved due to having all of her aunts and uncles in her life encouraging and supporting her.She graduated Cum Laude,has embarked on her dream career and recently became married to her boyfriend of 5 years.When she was a teenager everybody explained that it wasn't her mothers fault to suffer from mental illness.We didn't force her to visit her mother and we didn't make excuses for my niece when she went through her snotty teen years.Keep being a postivie force with your grandson and he will turn out A-Ok.
God of Fate,
There was a need for him to correct you. A magazine is not a clip and a clip is not a magazine. They are two completely different mechanisms. A clip feeds the ammunition into a magazine. A magazine feeds the ammunition into the weapon.
@God of fate
No, all I asked is why was he raised by his aunt. I said nothing about his parents being deadbeats. You don't think that if his parents are deceased that it would have some kind of impact on him mentally? Even if he never met his parents you don't think that he would wonder what they were like. Think about the kids that were put up for adoption and grew up in a loving home you don't think that they ever wonder why their biological parent(s) didn't keep them? So no God of fate my comment did not have anything to do with his parents being deadbeats. Have you not noticed how many grandparents are raising their grandchildren, why is this? What has gone so terribly wrong here? Why are material things so important to so many people? My point was as a society we are losing our morals and our family values.
The above comment was meant for Rob80 not God of Fate.
So those things have happened to me dozens of times but I didn't get killing people. Are the younger getting soft expecting life to turn out like a rose garden? I hate to tell you kids...
What does anyone expect. The kids nowadays have been told their whole lives about how wonderful & perfect they are. Many don't receive any discipline at home or at school when they go off track. If they play sports they are told there are no losers, everyone is a winner & even the losers get a trophy. After all, we can't hurt their little feelings or self esteem now can we...
Then they finally get out in the real world & they can't handle it. They find out not everyone is a winner. They find out they don't get a trophy (i.e. job/raise/or pat on the back) just for showing up. They can't take criticism or anyone questioning what they are doing. They simply can't cope with the real world when everything doesn't go their way based on their idealistic view of life...Some of them just snap & go off the deep end & you end up with a situation like this shooting...
So you're correct many of them are soft & unable to deal with reality/life...
As a former US Navy person who passed through MEPS twice (I joined once, then forgot about the acronym--Never Again Volunteer Yourself--and joined a second time), I can tell you that the do-or-die feeling is present for a lot of those who want to join the military, and when the article says "everything kind of fell apart for him," I understand the disappointment... because I've seen it on the faces of those unfit for duty for one reason or another (be it mental or physical). What you look forward to in the service is not just to serve your country, but basics that you took for granted would be part of an adult life: food, clothing, shelter, job training, free medical/dental/vision care, friends/co-workers, travel, regular advancement in your field and a steady paycheck.
Civilian life, particularly in today's job market, can't offer any of that for certain. How many of this young man's friends were still living at home after graduation? Working minimum-wage jobs where their biggest "advancement" would be to make supervisor at a fast-food restaurant? Relying on their parents for medical and dental insurance or, failing that, had no insurance? How many of them have never traveled to Europe or South America or Asia, and would never get the chance?
That being said, one look at this guy and you can tell the military wasn't the place for him, anyway. I can't picture him giving up the three piercings, with a military-style haircut, and handling the pressure that the armed forces puts on its people. Clearly, the pressures of civilian life made him snap.
Stand Up, What are you talking about Piercings So What half of the Boys in the Service today have Disgusting Tattoos all over their bodies. So don't try and say that today's Serviceman are all clean cut when half of them are Gang Thugs looking for three years of training with Automatic Weaponry.
OneSlacker and JustGetAlong: AMEN TO THAT!!!
It is not the situations in life that define us...it is how we arise to those occasions that does.
this guy failed badly in life...and it is ALL ON HIM....not some drug, or problem or anything...it was HIM. HE FAILED....sugar coat it how you like but he did not rise to any occasion. instead turned to MURDER.
This guy was a piece of @!$%#...plain and simple, who failed life's simple test ...of facing it.
I completely agree. We will see more of this the longer our "society of tolerance" goes on. I'm 25 and have had many failures but have already ended up with a 70k salary. I worked hard and been through much to have this pride.
Don't you dare blame these incidents on my generation. Crap like this has been going on since your generation...you just didn't have invasive 24 hour media coverage.
Every generation has its spoiled brats and those unable to cope with life. Every generation also has hard-working and clear-headed individuals. I am 25 and am nothing like what you speak of about "this generation." This was an INDIVIDUAL problem, most likely fueled by some type of mental illness. Stop making this a generational problem....you're only succeeding in aging yourself.
PS. As a side note---@ranknfile I don't hear you guys complain when those boys with "disgusting tattoos" lay down their lives to defend your freedom.
I think there has been a serious slide in proper upbringing of children ever since the Greatest Generation ended their parenting days. I grew up raised by boomer parents who, rather than telling me the importance of earning my way in the world told me I was special and should take things because I was me. It was a shock to enter the real world when I got out of college six years back and find out that reality didn't work that way. Took a lot of inner reflection and ultimately repudiation of the way I was raised to ultimately better myself. Now I see my peers raising kids with absolutely no discipline. I was over at a friends house and their toddler threw chips on the floor in a tantrum, they laughed and gave him some chips, I guess as a reward for acting like a brat. You unfortunately see kids running around like feral beasts all the time in public. The people raising kids today were raised by lax baby boomer parents, and their lack of knowledge on proper discipline is elavating the problem with the current crop of kids to a whole new level.
Mike--
I agree with you in most cases. However, every generation says this about the one after them. It's also dangerous to make generalizations because I know some people my age who are really good parents.
That being said....there's a huge difference between being a brat with a poor upbringing and being a killer.
This is what happens when we have a 50% divorce rate in this country. Why is that again?
This is what happens when the only parent or even both parents are forced to work 40 hours a week just to make ends meet. Why is that again, and how did we have a time when only one parent had to work? What was the earnings ratio from rich to poor, and what were the top tax rates then?
We should all be thankful that he bought cheap steel cased foreign made ammo more then likely instead of higher priced brass for that stolen AR. Had he bought better ammo the gun probably would not have jammed. Many times the steel case expands and will jam in the chamber due to the tight tolerances. Either the case had a weak spot or it got some extra gunpowder (poor quality control) causing the case to jam. I have seen people have to take a cleaning rod and stick it down the barrel to force/beat out the jammed shell. I can only imagine what does for the rifling/barrel, not to mention the accuracy of those rounds suck in comparison. There is some quality steel cased ammo made here in the U.S. however, but steel is still harder then brass.
Any other jam should have been able to be quickly cleared, but he might not have know that either. As one of the other posters stated guns are complicated and sometimes simpler is better. When it comes to mag/clip size smaller and simpler is better. I could buy 100+ round mags for my AR/AK hybrid, but I only have the standard 10, 20, and 30 round ones since they are WAY more reliable and easier to carry. Not as easy to kill someone with a gun as people think since you still need to aim and hit something vital too. Even harder when all the targets are running away from you. Guy would have been better off stealing a car and using that instead. Bet he has had more practice driving a car in his lifetime versus shooting a gun.
It's so funny to hear all this "aww, these darn kids today..they just dont...blah blah blah." We are living in the GREATEST country in the world and each generation is getting more enlightened and better. If you aged folk can't keep up then please step aside.
Hey Jon - if it wasn't for us "aged folks" you wouldn't exist. Now YOU step aside. Just remember "those who forget history are condemned to repeat it".
Jon, where have I heard that before...oh yah, back in 1960 when I was your age. And every generation since Adam and Eve. You won't realize how boring it is until you're my age.
Yeah. He was fun, sweet, armed, and batsh*t crazy. Probably playing around with drugs like all his millenial friends.
had lost his driver's license after a couple of speeding tickets, broken up with his girlfriend, been evicted from his apartment, then quit his job and told friends he was going to Hawaii -- only to apparently miss his flight last weekend....Welcome to life you idiot. Try falling four months behind in your mortgage with three kids because you were laid off after twenty years of dedication. And, every month having something shut off(cable, internet, phone, electric, water, ect...) while your trying to catch up when you finally get back to work. Sitting on the phone for two hours with unemployment because they made a typo, screws in your wife's tire, hurricane blew a tree down on your shed, township making you replace your sidewalk for unknown valid reason....on and on....too bad your dead to read this, you coward.
I sure hope I don't bump into you at the mall!
@ Janelyn
Don't feel too bad. I'm also related to Mr. Murphy (of Murphy's Law). Pretty much whatever can go wrong usually does in my life too. I try to laugh it off but it isn't always easy to do.
want some cheese with that whine? BTW if you want us to feel bad for you, don't mention that you elect to pay for cable :0
I'm sorry, Janelyn. I hope things improve for you and your family.
Janelyn please don't take the some of these comments to heart. I understand what you are saying and empathize with you. It looks like you are keeping it together despite the many setbacks life has thrown at you. It's good to see that you haven't given up and keep moving forward. Like ElkMeadow, I too "hope things improve for you and your family".
Janelyn, I am sorry for what you have gone through. Unfortunately, not enough attention has been paid to what is essentially turning out to be a lost decade for many. This young man sounds as though he was running out of options in life - probably some of it was his own doing, but as you have experienced, it is tough when life poops on you no matter how it was caused. Younger people often don't have the resilience to adapt to the bad stuff, just because they lack the experience. I'm not excusing his actions but it is depressing that this stuff continues to happen and we continue to not recognize when someone needs help.
Old story of a man sitting on the curb crying bird flys down and asks him what is wrong man tellsthe bird all his troubles bird says cheer up things could get worse....Man cheers up and sure enough things go worse.....
Remember folks there cna be no highs if there are no lows. Lows are put there to make you stronger so you can make more highs in you life. When the going gets tough the tough get going and in my life my best times have alway came right after a big downturn in it.
I hope that the police report comes out in the standard 4 -6 weeks and says if he was on anti-depressants or not. Those pills are terrible and they are mind altering. I lost a family member to suicide after being on them less than one month. They mess with your head and thinking process. This may not be the case in this incident, but it would be interesting to know if there was anything in his system at the time of the killings rather prescription drugs or otherwise. There are to many suicides that happen because of anti-depressants. Unfortunately these people are killing others before they just take their own life. I'll never understand just random firing at a stranger for no reason nor even people that he or she does know. When life is that bad, at least don't harm or kill anyone else. It is bad enough for family to go through a suicide in their family, but there is no logic or purpose in taking anyone else out with you at the time.
I think that these kinds of people aren't strong enough to kill themselves alone, they need a real reason, to burn your last bridges, as it were. If you kill some one there is no going back to the life you had before, easy, just kill yourself.
Why are you hoping that a pharmaceutical product is to blame? Many people with depression are helped by them.
Anti-depression medication has a lot of risks to it. For example, people on something as powerful as Lexapro can become addicted to it, and that addiction can take up to a year to shake. The term "anti-depressant" itself is a misnomer, because depression can, indeed, increase on the various medications out there.
It's not a sure-fire thing, by any means. People who are on anti-depressants are often on the "right" one only after much trial and error. There are about 30 different kinds, and it's not a one-size-fits-all pharmaceutical field. Some horrible side-effects can come about if you're put on the wrong meds.
You are correct about anti-depressants StandUpJokeOff. But there is absolutely no evidence that he was suffering from depression and that that is what made him do this. I get a little ticked off when people read about things like this and they automatically go the mentally ill route. Sure let's blame the crazies - that must be what is wrong with him. And he may very well have been suffering from a mental illness and he may have been on medication - but I highly doubt it. People with depression on medications are usually mellow and not a threat to anyone at all. I have suffered from clinical depression for 30 years - have been on every medication to find the right mix - have found it - am stable and have raised 3 kids by myself for 28 years on my own. I have never felt like killing myself or anyone else. It is not as common as people think for depressed people to go off the cliff and start shooting people and then themself. Sometimes if someone is bi-polar or suffers from schitophrenia and hears the voices - they take meds with terrible side effects and they keep going off of them and that is generally when they become violent and possibly act like this guy did. But until they go into his history no one should jump to conclusions and put a label on him that might not be the case. It was crazy for him to do what he did but that doesnt label him as being crazy. Just wait and see.
Shar-- I'm really glad to hear your success story.
Unfortunately, not everyone is so lucky. Anti-depressants do not mellow everyone out. And the trial-and-error process is a risky one. I don't believe medications can be solely to blame for incidents like this....however, I have some unfortunate first hand experience watching someone very close to me violently self-destruct because of anti-depressants. There is no such thing as a miracle drug and sometimes, especially in my circumstance, I wish doctors weren't so quick to prescribe them.
That is life AZZ-HOLE...all go though tough times now and then..there was no need to kill others..enjoy HELL..you POS!
How shocking.
Benjamin Eshbach...what doesn't fit is the brain in your head!
I think JustGetAlong has a point (1 vote)... It seems to me that the "youth" are not "sturdy" enough for life... I used to tell my kids as they got into gaming... "There are no Cheat Codes in life." I would tell them that they should at a minimum play the game all the way through and figure it out without cheating. Church was also a big part of the family.. None (except a few times) attend Church regularly BUT they never heard me cuss them out.. so as a consequence they don't use foul language around me. They did not hear me say "Do as I say not as I do..." But they hear me say often "Do as I say AND as I do."... They were taught at a young age to say "Yes or No Mam/Sir"... Not saying I was a great parent (I give God that Glory) but I did not want to leave them for an excuse for failure.
This seem to serve them well but at the same time I've noticed in my Children (now adults on their own) and others that they seem to lack a basic "I'm responsible for my life... good or bad no one else to blame." As this man did did horrible act.. I bet he blamed every one else for his "depression" and took the violent way out.
It is truly tragic that this young man chose to apparently respond to respond in this manner to all the set backs he was experiencing in life. This is not the first time a shooter has responded to life stresses like this.It probably won't be the last either. Though usually it is just someone whose girl friend has left him, someone lost their home, lost their job, had a problem with the law. But not all of these.And at such a young age.
At age 22, he had not lived long enough to realize that there are storms in everyone's life, but they will pass.That there are people who are willing to help, if one is willing to ask.And we are stronger then we could ever believe, if we never quit.
I wish people would realize this has nothing to do with age. It's not "kids now days" or that this guy was too young to know tragedy.
It is an INDIVIDUAL ISSUE. Stop stringing the rest of us along with these shooters.
I'm 25. I've been laid off, run out of funding to finish school, lost a long-term boyfriend to mental illness, was unable to pay for my house and nearly lost my car. I didn't shoot up a mall, I got through it. Still have my car, I'm about to graduate, have an amazing boyfriend, and I know things work out as long as you assume responsibility. This young man personally lacked a coping mechanism/responsibility, or he was mentally ill.
Either way, a tragedy for all.
Wow. Is this how we are teaching people to handle setbacks? Go out and kill a bunch of other people?
The libtard way, everything is someone elses fault, never the individual.
Shut the hell up, d.bag.
This is such a ridiculous and non relevant comment. Seriously do you feel the need to inject politics into every discussion.
People are unpredictable. That's why they can't handle guns.
42 gun deaths for every one gun death in England (for instance). Having 140 times as many guns per capita is merely a coincidence.
The U.S. isn't the deadliest place on the planet at least when you look at the murder rate per 100,000 population (see below).
Mexico had a total of 27,199 murders in 2011. How many of these were due to firearms I don't know for sure. However, I would be willing to bet that many of them were caused by guns.
How is that total gun ban working out for the citizens down there?
Murder Rate
Mexico had 24 homicides per 100,000 people in 2011, up from 23 per 100,000 inhabitants a year earlier. That compares with 91.6 killings per 100,000 residents in Honduras, 69.2 in El Salvador, 38.5 in Guatemala and 25 in the Dominican Republican, according to data compiled by the United Nations. The U.S. had 4.2 murders per 100,000 people in 2010, the most recent year included in UN data.
According to the FBI Uniform Crime report for 2011:
12,664 murders in the U.S.
Out of the total above 8,583 were murders by firearms, broken down as follows:
6,220 committed by handguns
323 committed by rifles
356 committed by shotguns
1,684 committed by unknown type of firearms
1,694 committed by knives or cutting instruments
1,659 committed by other weapons
728 committed by hands/fists/feet etc..
These news agencies must have a template for this kind of story so all they have to do is fill in the blanks. The interviews with friends, neighbors and co-workers are my favorite.
"People who knew Roberts said it was hard to believe that he could have been a killer." Nice kid, would never hurt anybody, can't wrap my mind around it. Obviously they didn't know the shooter at all. Maybe said hi to him on the sidewalk once. And why is it almost always males doing the shooting? My advice to those contemplating murder/suicide - do the suicide first.
It unfortunate but it is completely feasible that those closest to him really never saw it coming.
Mental illness and deterioration is funny that way. It's not always detectable, especially because of the underlying stigma.
And if he was just a bad person who couldn't cope with life? Well, a characteristic of sociopaths is the ability to manipulate others and emulate a normal personality.
It's sad, but it's entirely possible.
This young man was raised by an aunt and recently incurred all kids of life's problems.He couldn't deal with it and those around him should have known that he was on a downhill slide.At 22,he had his whole life ahead of him.It's shameful that he felt the need to include innocent people in his quest to commit suicide.No matter the age, people need a support system of friends and family so that when life deals you a bad hand you have people to emotionally lean on so that you don't feel hopeless and helpless.
No no no no no no no.... He was a loser. It was nobodies fault but his own. It is not his friends fault for not noticing and stopping him. Don't make excuses.
She wasn't saying that it wasn't his fault but that maybe these are the reasons that lead to his behavior. If we are not willing to discuss the causes of this kind of behavior then we better simply just accept that it's going to happen.
All kids go to some kind of trouble. That is not the issue. The issue is that he had a gun in his hand at the moment that he was unstable. Not having the gun would have made a hell of a difference. Same with Belcher.
Hey, everyone, quit blaming pills on a 22 yr old. The kid was directionless, had NO job, NO drivers license, No girlfriend.
Translation? At such a young age, He didn't have a LIfe.
So, what does he do at 22? Goes out and kills people.
There's no story here, just a kid that killed for kicks.
Michele,thank you for seeing what it was that I was saying.Your comments are profound and maybe others will read them so that they will recognize depression in their loved ones and be able to morally support them to prevent another suicide.
Oh, poor, poor disenfranchised baby: he had setbacks. Welcome to Earth, pal. Those setbacks are called life. This is another case of I've met the real world and it isn't the cozy place in which I was incubated for 18 years. We've raised a generation of victims who are disappointed that life isn't facebook--that it takes more than a few choreographed photos and clever status updates to earn your keep. Rather than buckle down and bite back, they lash out.
Nice generalization buddy, but most of us "kids" his age were raised during a recession and aren't stupid. Most of us know what it's like to have nothing and struggle into your twenties. Just because my life wasn't super peachy and I was laid off by 23 doesn't mean I'm going to shoot up a mall because of my age.
Stop blaming an entire generation. I thought personal responsibility was something your generation valued. Why don't you give it to him.
amediamogul,Good comments.I at 62 do not group the younger generation into one basket.It's insulting when people keep saying that the younger generation is not tough enough. I've met many younger people who have struggled to find work after college but somehow hung in there and landed a great job leading to an excellent career.As a baby boomer I feel in good hands with the younger generation coming up to the helm.
Once again it just goes to show, anyone is capable of committing this kind of violence given the situation, mental state and circumstances involved in their life. We all handle stress, emotion and anger differently and that is what's scary.
blah, blah, blah. Spoiled little adult idiot gone bad. Burn the body and write the worst things you can about him. Trash.
This is why you can't trust guys who wear earrings. Dude is 22 years old and has jewelry on his face. Of course he's psycho.
.....Lol?
My best friend's husband had a lip piercing like this guy and stretched his ear lobes. He has tattoos. He's proven himself to be a very hardworking young man who loves his wife and wants to give her every thing she desires. After getting married he got more culinary chef training and got a better chef job than his previous one.
Good natured and loving. I can make gross generalizations about religious people and other races. But I'm sure you've heard them all before (and believe them too!)
What!? Far more mass killings have been done by people who have no jewelry. So apparently we have to watch out for people who don't were ear rings or face rings. What a horrendously ignorant thing to say.
I've met some cool guys who have those piercings and those huge rings in their earlobes, who all have jobs, but I never met one who had a corporate job and worked with me.
I worked at a bank, and had a new hire guy who had a hoop nose ring going in both nostrils, like you see on pigs. He was qualified for the job, and got it. He was told he couldn't come to work with the nose ring, and he agreed to that. He would wait to remove it until he had one foot coming across the threshold of the door. He would stick it back in as his foot hit the threshold has he walked out the door, even for lunch. Twice, he forgot to take it out when he came back into the building, and was reminded about the policy and agreement. He was told there would be no third time. The third time came a day later, so he was terminated.
People who decide to wear things like that have some deep conviction about it, which is why he couldn't bear to be without it even for a second when he wasn't on the clock. I think people like that are unbalanced, and I would never hire someone like that if I had the final say.
Well, I have stretched ears, a labret piercing (the lower lip) and lots of tattoos. I work for an engineering software company, and earn around $150K/year. I have a Ph.D. in engineering and am very qualified for my job, and nobody makes me take anything out.
I'm not unbalanced because I choose to look different than most people. I believe that unbalanced people are the ones that care so much about such trivial things on others.
And I'm in the position of hiring people.
Hmm...chronic shiitehead, can't get his crap together, everyone else is responsible for his problems. Yeah...I can see the intelligence that drove his life. Nice. Hey! You don't know me.... Yes..yes we do.
I buy almost everything except food and clothing from online auctions. Most people aren't aware of the almost unbelievable deals that they can get from online auction sites. The site that has the best deals is ( saveBangCom
and I checked with the Better Business Bureau and was told that it is all legit. How they can sell gift cards, laptops, cameras, and all kinds of goodies that we all want for 50-90% off, I don't know. I do know that I bought my son an iPad there for less than $100 and my husband a $250 Loews gift cards for $48. Why would I even think about shopping anyplace else?”
Quit writing sad obituaries about this poor little baby. He was a piece of garbage, yep, garbage, as in not human. Stick his head on a stake, plant it in the ground and let people walk by spitting on it and tossing trash at it. Then put that on the TV and media. You just might stop one or more future nuts wanting their last 5 minutes of fame. Hey, worked for Dracula.
Just stop, no more orange haired idiot, no more this idiot, no more any of these creeps.
Another pothead, drunken chain smoker kills again! Why doesn't the Feds release what is in the system of these bipolar nutcases.
He was a DemoKKKrat- what did you expect?
What evidence do you have to support this sentence?
Why do these people have to take others with them? Just shoot your sorry ass and be done with it! I don't understand why people want to take innocent victims with them!
These people always get the order wrong. If you are going to kill yourself, make that a priority over anyone else's life.
22 years old, chin-pubes, guaged ears, self-imposed shrapnel in his face, drove a green Volkswagen, unemployed basement dwelling Portland residing, gun-stealing felon...sounds like just another crazed Obama-voting mall-shooting DemoKKKrat.
How in the hell can you write that in all seriousness. You have absolutely no idea what this guys political affiliation is or whether he had any. What is with everybody on here making these outlandish assumptions. Try and think critically. He was clearly deranged and whether he is a republican or democrat is irrelevant as I think we can all agree no matter what party we belong to that most all of us condemn these actions and his actions do not represent either party.
"I don't know why I (he) did it. It isn't like me (him)."
Wish I had a dollar for every time I've heard that. Truth is, it's just like you (him). And anyone who says they knew you, really didn't know you at all.
He was a DemoKKKrat- what did you expect?
He was a DemoKKKrat- what did you expect?
Dude, you guys lost the top post last election and are losing ground DAILY. Maybe it is time for more soul-searching and less ridiculous posting, eh?
O.K. so he had a (stolen) gun. But what is more disturbing in all of these incidents is how no one detected anything was " off " with this guy. He can't have his life falling apart without anyone knowing. The things he went through in 1 year would be considered major crises by a psychiatrist. I don't know what anyone could do about it but I'm always astounded when people say they didn't notice anything wrong. It just goes to show you that we either don't know our friends and lovedones like we think we do or we are not paying attention.
22 years old, chin-pubes, guaged ears, self-imposed shrapnel in his face, drove a green Volkswagen, unemployed basement dwelling Portland residing, gun-stealing, Obama-voting felon.
How many warning signs did we need?
Vern- you are now on ignore so Iwon't see anything else you post. Goodnight and have an interesting life.
You don't pick up an AR-15 and load and fire it by instinct. Someone taught this guy how to use the weapon and probably let him get some practice in. Whoever that was, in his naive ignorance probably thought it was beneficial to this troubled soul to let him go shooting, seemed to make the symptoms of his psychosis subside. But how can anyone of normal intelligence forget that guns--all guns--are dangerous?
This has been a feature of very many other mass shootings by disturbed boys and young men who seized or stole the firearms they used from adult family members, often the first victims of the rampage to follow.
I'd like to know how he just happened to steal an AR-15; not exactly the most common firearm to randomly find. He had to know it was there.
He listed shooting as an activity; who was his "mentor" and what kind of values did this person instill in him?