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Seth Perlman / AP file
Gun owners and supporters rallied for Illinois Gun Owners Lobby Day in Springfield on March 7, 2012.
Two states, two takes: Even as Illinois officials are lamenting a court order requiring them to let state residents carry concealed weapons, Florida officials are boasting about just how many hundreds of thousands of state residents are carrying concealed weapons.
Florida Agriculture Commissioner Adam Putnam happily announced Wednesday that some time next week, Florida would become the first state with more than 1 million residents holding "active" concealed-carry permits. That's proof, said Putnam — whose agency administers the permit program — of Florida's "strong tradition in upholding Second Amendment rights."
As Putnam spoke at a news conference Wednesday, anguished officials in Illinois, including Gov. Pat Quinn, were strategizing how to respond after the 7th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals on Tuesday ordered state lawmakers to write a law legalizing concealed carry to uphold Second Amendment rights.
It's quite a dichotomy: Illinois for the moment is the only state where you can't legally carry a concealed weapon (the court gave Illinois lawmakers 180 days to come up with a law legalizing it).
By contrast, Florida is quite proud of being the most heavily armed state, at least in terms of concealed weapons permits.
Putnam, a prominent Republican strategist during five terms in Congress, where he headed the party's Policy Committee, called reporters to Tallahassee, the state capital, to highlight that slightly fewer than a million "active" — that is, unexpired and valid — concealed-weapons permits were in circulation. With his agency issuing new permits at the rate of 10,000 to 15,000 a month, he said, the 1 millionth permit was on course to be issued next week.
Putnam said demand for permits was so high that he's had to hire more staff to handle the workload under a "fast track" system that lets gun owners get their permits more quickly. It now takes about 35 days, compared to about 12 weeks before he became commissioner in 2011, he said.
State figures show that requests for permits spiked in late July after a gunman opened fire in a crowded theater in Aurora, Colo., killing 12 people. That's when the Agriculture Department started issuing occasional updates on the race to 1 million.
Poll: Views on gun laws unchanged after Aurora theater massacre
Other factors appear to have played their parts in making the program so popular. For one thing, the Legislature made it cheaper to carry a concealed weapon, dropping the fee from $85 to $70 last year.
Then there's the persistent belief that President Barack Obama wants to take away everyone's guns — despite his repeated reassurances that he supports the Second Amendment and even though during his first term he signed a law expanding the federal lands where guns are allowed.
Ed Hensen, owner of the St. Lucie Shooting Center in Port St. Lucie, Fla., said his gun sales had risen consistently 30 percent every month during the last four months, when the presidential campaign was at its most feverish.
"People panicked, and rightfully so," Hensen said. "They're concerned about their Second Amendment."
Jeanne Rochester of Port St. Lucie told NBC station WPTV of West Palm Beach this week that she was taking shooting lessons at Hensen's store to qualify for a permit because "I want to have protection for myself for the future, and I know that guns are going to be hard to get."
Hensen said letting people pack hidden heat made the state safe, because "if you have educated people, well-trained people with a firearm, it may eliminate some of these bad guys."
In Illinois, however, officials generally warned that allowing residents to carry concealed weapons would make the state more dangerous.
Watch US News crime videos on NBCNews.com
"What we're doing is going to legalize guns, and then guess what? A lot of those guns are going to end up in the wrong hands," Democratic state Rep. Charles Jefferson told NBC station WREX of Rockford.
Chicago Mayor Rahm Emanuel called a news conference at City Hall to offer his city's advice and resources to any effort state Attorney General Lisa Madigan planned to challenge the court ruling. Madigan said she was studying whether to seek new hearing or to appeal to the U.S. Supreme Court.
"This ruling runs counter to not only common sense but what every police chief in the country says, which is we should not allow more guns on the street," said Emanuel, who called the opinion "wrongheaded."
Gun control group alleges Armslist.com caused woman's death through Internet sale
In fact, law enforcement isn't nearly as united as Emanuel claimed. In 2009, for example, the Illinois Sheriffs' Association passed a resolution supporting a concealed-carry law in Illinois.
Macon County Sheriff Tom Schneider told NBC station WAND of Springfield this week: "I believe the argument would be in favor of the fact that by having people that are trained to protect themselves out there on the streets, they're going to be more inclined to do the right thing and not the wrong thing."
"Cops can't be on every corner ... and law-abiding citizens should have the right to protect themselves," he said.
Each side argues that crime figures support its argument, but the reality is there's no clear evidence either way, the National Academy of Sciences reported in its last comprehensive overview of the issue, in 2004.
The study found "conflicting estimates" of the impact of such laws, concluding that "it is not possible to determine that there is a causal link between the passage of right-to-carry laws and crime rates."
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Florida is a state where you can buy a fully automatic 9mm TEC 9 with high capacity clips for $200. Perhaps that's the reason for the high number of concealed weapon permits. Floridians would be well advised to buy and wear a Category IV bullet proof vest as well. The next step will be a law to carry a sidearm or automatic weapon on your shoulder or hip anywhere in Florida. My choice of weapon is a H & K .40 cal. MP5, fully automatic.
Hitobito
Try again. Federal law has STRICT requirements on purchase of FULLY automatic weapons. The "tax stamp" alone is $200 for a FULLY automatic weapon. Perhaps you are referring to a SEMI automatic?
Actually Hito you can buy fully automatic weapons in a lot of states - IF you are willing to go through all the federal hoops to do it.
$200 might get you a fully automatic Airsoft version. As for a real full-auto Tec-9, the cost may soon approach five figures, IF you can find one for sale. The supply of full-auto weapons available to civilians was frozen in 1986, so the prices keep increasing every year even as the available guns approach their useful service life.
That was a correct decision by the court. With the rapidly growing ranks of CCW holders, people will be needing guns to protect themselves from one another. When the alcohol flows freely and heated words are exchanged, do you want to be the only unarmed person in the room?
Al
Now as I see it you brought up the real problem. An old cliche: Instant a--h--- just add alcohol. A drunk does not need a gun to kill-cars work better. So if we ban cars and guns we will be safe from all the drunks? Try what this drunk did. Clean and sober for 30 years. I have not a any problems with guns, cars, or the law since. Amazing how that works.
I had to punch a drunk last week. I and many of my friend carry guns on our hips. I've seen many fist fights between armed combatants. NONE have EVER pulled a gun.
There was a fight in Florida recently between a self-appointed neighborhood vigilante and a black kid carrying Coke and Skittles. The former did pull a gun on the latter, perhaps because the kid was unarmed.
Perhaps the former did not want his head beaten to a pulp by the latter.
The way I see it........kill or be killed. Always better to have an option than have no option at all!!!!
Agreed Redman6- better to be tried by 12 instead of carried by 6!
Liability insurance and proof of it should be required when a person applies for a permit. No insurance, no permit. People should also be required to take classes that deal with the legalities of owning a gun. I have a friend who was an assistant district attorney in a major metropolitan city. She said the reason she would never own a gun was because she wasn't prepared to kill somebody. My understanding is that there's no such thing as a "warning shot" I believe these are points that any gun-owner-to-be needs to know and fully understand if they want a permit to carry.
Should the criminals be required to have liability insurance and hospitalization,also?
Or will my policy cover them as well?
Ask that question to the next grieving parent, whose child is "accidentally" shot by another child who happens to find their parent's handgun.
to Missy - you are right ! Taking out a gun and shooting someone has an awesome responsibility attached.
Just ask George Zimmerman in Florida. All he had to do was walk away. Now he and his family will never be the same, the Martin family will never be the same, who knows where all this will end up legally for George.
When you are outside your home, avoid a situation if possible, then retreat if you can.
Even if you CAN shoot it does NOT mean it is the best course of action.
How would my having an insurance policy impact grieving parents or stop people from accidentally shooting each other?
I think missy just wants to make money off the tragedy.
Her solution won't work in my state. We don't need ANY permits here.
No, I'm not interested in "making any money". I think the insurance is needed because if your child accidentally shoots another child, you don't really think the other parents are just going to accept an apology, do you? This being America, chances are good that the parent of the shooter, will get sued. I thinks it's called, pain and suffering and future medical. If both parties settle out of court, the policy could pay the settlement. Again, do you honestly believe that the parent of the child who was shot is just going walk away? If your child was shot, would you?
You must work for an insurance company. ??
Arizona Tumbleweed...What vast wasteland do you reside in in AZ? Saying that no permits are required in AZ is false. You need a permit to carry a concealed weapon.
Eligibility
Concealed weapon permits will be issued by the Department of Public Safety (DPS) to Arizona residents over the age of 21 who are US citizens, complete an approved gun safety program and submit fingerprints. The approved gun safety course that must be completed is any program approved by the DPS. It must be at least eight hours in length and be conducted by a fully qualified and approved instructor. This excludes anybody who is prohibited from owning a handgun under federal or state law. Prohibited possessors include current convicts, people who have committed a felony with a firearm or someone who has been declared a danger to themselves or others by a court.
Read more: Arizona Gun License Requirements | eHow.com #ixzz2F0PqzWHq
jerseyl: I didn't say I couldn't get one. I said a permit IS NOT REQUIRED. Some people still get them because they are good in other states.
Three states now do not require permits.
I DO NOT make false statements.
Oops: Wyoming has just joined the list. That makes four. With 11 more working on it.
Wow. Rahm has offered the guidance and support from the epically effective gun control crowd in Chicago?
Too funny!
You mean Chicagostan,don't you?
The Mayor is a complete fool. Spend more money you don't have to make an attempt to keep the citizens from getting what they want... What a joke.
Florida. Isn't this the same state where some old white guy shot up a car full of kids because they were playing music he thought was too loud? Educated and well-trained? Right.
Is that a racist comment? What does his color have to do with it?
Was that wrong?
Jonathan Reid-1158169
It is also the same state that the 72 year old Grandfather stopped a robbery & shot one of the robbers about 8 or 9 months ago at a convenience store. So what was your point?
The theory that a woman found dead in an alley, raped and strangled with her pantyhose, is somehow morally superior to a woman explaining to police how her attacker got that fatal bullet wound.
I live in Florida, and you CANNOT buy a fully automatic 9mm just anywhere. I am an avid gun enthusiast and have never even seen a fully automatic weapon. I have lived in Florida for 30 years. A fully automatic weapon requires a very strict FEDERAL background check and about 10K.
Where do you people get this stuff?
It's just bull-chit they WANT to believe. They don't care if it's true or not.
Tina -- I'll bet there are a lot more guns in Illinois than Emmanel willl ever admit. The law now says it is LEGAL to carry - bet there was a lot of ILLEGAL gun posession by otherwise law abiding citizens.
Prohibition was tried and it failed right there in Illinois. Either the Mayor is stupid or in denial publically.
Everything has been tried,including effective and honest government in Chicagostan,has failed miserably!
Gun control works so well in Chicago.
Screw Rahm Emmanuel! I'll guarandamntee you he packs a gun along with his gangsta' cohorts. Chicago has one of the highest rates of gun violence in the nation! Why? Because it's a gun free zone! Ever notice how gun free zones are where most of the horrific gun crimes take place. Every law abiding citizen has the right to and should pack.
I love how it seems those concerned about their "right" to "carry" tend to be the ones against the "right" to "marry".
That's because they're neocon baggers, not patriots who actually care about the Constitution. Hell in Iowa these morons tried to get a law passed that would have forced private property owners to allow guns on their property.
You must be vacationing in Colorado and partaking in their newly legalized pot rage!
Another reason to avoid Florida, the more people who carry guns, the greater the chance one of them is a nutcase ready to blow.
Not allowed to own one, eh?
Probably to young or couldn't pass the background check.
Has the "Fiscal Cliff" been averted? Why move on to this topic if the major topic of the day hasn't been resolved?
A low-life who is not sure if you are carrying a concealed weapon is the best protection you can have.
Too many deluded gun fetishists have simply replaced their brains with guns. Pathetic.
Sounds like you need to fill your void with something.
EK-2529948, have you ever considered that reasonable people may own a gun? Have you ever picked up a gun and fired it? You label anyone who uses or owns a gun pathetic? Aren't you special.
Illinios, get legal, get Constitutional, get American! Your citizens have an inherent right to carry firearms, concealed!!!
Crime rates have gone down in the states that allow concealed carry.
From the article: "Ed Hensen, owner of the St. Lucie Shooting Center in Port St. Lucie, Fla., said his gun sales had risen consistently 30 percent every month during the last four months, when the presidential campaign was at its most feverish. "People panicked, and rightfully so," Hensen said. "They're concerned about their Second Amendment."
In bold above. What an ENORMOUS CROCK. An ENORMOUS CROCK that incredibly stupid Americans actually believe.
Sadly, far more people than that believe Obama is the Savior.
Sadly far more people like yourself, actually believe the conservative line of propaganda BS. Including the "Obama is the Savior" garbage. Of course, from your comment it is obvious that you are a member of the ignorance is bliss club.
The same amount of fools who think Obama is the savior think that salvation is the government's job.
I rest my case. Which actually wasn't at all difficult. It is VERY obvious that you are a fond follower of the right wing propaganda machine and if they told you to rub red mud in your navel because it would make you more conservative, you would ask: "What shade of red".
People who believe in the government, people who believe that force and violence are the solution, ARE the problem! The government is nothing more and nothing less than force and violence.
youtube dot com/watch?v=-TC2xTCb_GU
youtube dot com/watch?v=QiYyHNgeFA8
Emanuel is one sorry, lying, sack of crap. Waste more money trying to keep those in the inner city in chains Rahm. Great work you bigot.
There is only a tiny fraction of people that are so ridiculously anti-gun. He and a handful of other nuts represent this group.
@ Brad Adamakis:
If guns kill people then I guess it's safe to say that spoons make people fat.
Please show me anywhere in the Second Amendment where it says "The right to bear CONCEALED Arms". Which law enforcement in the old west was VERY aware of. In fact, gun control was not only strictly enforced, it was considered to be NORMAL. Now here we are in 2012 and with the well funded propaganda arm of the we have to have guns EVERYWHERE (i.e. the NRA). Which of course we don't.
"Please show me anywhere in the Second Amendment where it says "The right to bear CONCEALED Arms""
Right after you show us where it says that we can't.
Do you have even minimum comprehension skills? Here let me help. "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed." It does not say "keep and bear CONCEALED arms". Our Founding Fathers were VERY intelligent individuals. If they would have wanted concealed, they would have made it VERY clear.
Please refer all questions to the Supreme Court. They will make the final determination. You are playing word games without even being a member permitted to play.
Pr0g -
Read the writings of the Framers, both Federalists and anti.
Also, do a little study on handguns of the time (yes, they had them). Many were known as vest-pocket pistols - worn inside their coats (ie concealed).
Do you have such a high intellect that you must question the intellect of others and demean them? Does that act of arrogance make you feel superior?
Please read District of Columbia v. Heller, 554 U.S. 570 (2008) map-4893349.
Crime rates are lower in places where there are concealed carry permits. Criminals usually don't get these permits. The people who conceal carry primarily serve to protect the community. When criminals are unsure of who may or may not be armed, they will be hesitant to perpetrate a crime.
Crime rates are dropping and are far below the rates we were seeing in the 1970's and early 80's. In 2011 America recorded the fifth straight drop in annual crime rate. There is no indication that the disarmament of the American people will make America a safer place.
There are those that are paranoid about anybody having the freedom to make choices without the interference of the community. They do not want us to own guns and be capable of self-defense. They do not want us to own wealth, because they are afraid of the "unfair" advantages for the powerful. They are afraid of freedom, because they feel that they have no power over their own lives. These people would take our freedoms because they fear us, they fear those that choose for themselves, and dare to make their own decisions in life.
I don't have the least desire to walk around with a pistol because I'm not fit to carry one. I can pass the little classes and all. If I'm pulling a weapon, I always intend to kill and if I've got to shoot someone, I keep shooting until they stop moving. I'm a poor pistol shot, not likely to improve because I'm aging and already have bifocals. Because I am a rotten shot, I'd need a sidearm with at least a 15-shot magazine. My bad habits are embedded and imprinted; I didn't get my old Combat Idiot's Badge by being a nice guy. All you guys can play crimestoppers all you want.