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Credit Ashley Broadway
Ashley Broadway, left, married her 15-year companion, Lt. Col. Heather Mack, in November — their first chance to hold a formal ceremony after the 2011 repeal of "Don't Ask Don't Tell."
The newlywed wife of a female lieutenant colonel stationed at Fort Bragg, the largest Army installation in the country, has been denied membership in a base club for officers’ spouses, igniting accusations from a national military spouses organization that the woman was blackballed only because she is a lesbian.
Ashley Broadway married her 15-year companion, Lt. Col. Heather Mack, in November — their first chance to hold a formal ceremony after the 2011 repeal of “Don’t Ask Don’t Tell,” the policy that kept gays from openly serving in the military. The couple has a 2-year-old son and Mack is 8-months-pregnant with their second child.
“I was really hurt by the denial. Living for years under ‘Don’t Ask Don’t Tell,’ I couldn’t be a part of the military family,” Broadway said, breaking into tears. “After ‘Don’t Ask Don’t Tell,’ I thought, wow, I can finally be part of something, finally give back to the military community in ways other than just writing a check. So it was a blow. A real blow. Here, I thought things were progressing. I was knocked back down.”
During a phone call Broadway received last week from a representative from the Association of Bragg Officers' Spouses, Broadway said she was told her application was rejected by the group’s president, Mary Ring, because Broadway does not have a military spouse identification card.
But that rule was added only after Broadway asked to join several weeks ago, according to Babette Maxwell, founder and executive director of both Military Spouse Magazine and the annual Military Spouse of the Year Awards. Maxwell and others advocating for Broadway said they have been monitoring and chronologically noting changes in the website for the Bragg spouses club.
Several weeks ago, Broadway repeatedly asked the club for a copy of its bylaws so she could read its membership rules. The club did not send them to her, she said, so Broadway obtained the bylaws from Fort Bragg's Morale, Welfare and Recreation office, where they were on file — and those pages later were shared with NBC News. Under the membership requirements, the bylaws state that the club accepts "spouses of all commissioned and warrant officers" who are on active duty and who reside "in the Fort Bragg area" or live on base. In those bylaws, which also say the group "will not seek to deprive individuals of their civil rights," there is no mention of a requirement that members must posses a military spouse identification card.
On Thursday, the spouse club noted on its website that: "Our constitution and Bylaws are currently being reviewed. Thank you for your patience during this process. We will have them posted as soon as possible."
In recent days, Maxwell said, the club deleted from its website its phone number — a number that is now disconnected — as well as the last names of its board members. On Thursday, those first names were still publicly listed on the site.
On Friday morning, every link beyond the website's welcome page was password protected.
The U.S. military does not recognize same-sex marriage under the Defense of Marriage Act and does not offer benefits — or ID cards — to same-sex spouses.
The club, in a statement emailed to NBC news, said: “In response to recent interest in the membership requirements of our organization, we will review the issue at our next board meeting.” The letter cites a “busy holiday season” and notes the club’s board has been “extremely busy” with a pair of recent fundraisers.
“Too busy with the holidays? Really? Since when has equality taken a back seat to Christmas?” asked Maxwell, whose mother once served as president of the Fort Bragg officers wives’ club when Maxwell’s father was stationed at the North Carolina base.
“My mother would say: It didn’t matter if a spouse was black, or was a he, and it most certainly wouldn’t matter if she loved a woman,” Maxwell said. “Back in the day, I never once recall having to present my military ID at any spouse club event, ever. We regularly had the girlfriends and fiancés of officers participate in the club. They didn’t have military IDs. So I find their explanation that Ashley’s membership requires a military ID a bit weak.”
Click here for more military-related coverage from NBC News.
The Association of Bragg Officers’ Spouses is a nonprofit, according to its website, meaning it is not directly associated with the Department of Defense.
“That does give them a little bit more legal latitude with their abilities to discriminate, which would be sad,” Maxwell said. “But their decision is certainly not in keeping with the military’s directive and they do have Fort Bragg in their name.”
While investigating the matter on Broadway's behalf, Maxwell also has been placing calls to the Fort Bragg public affairs office and to the Fort Bragg garrison commander’s office.
“When I called the garrison office (Wednesday), asking when we could expect some type of response from that office about Ashley Broadway, I got hung up on,” Maxwell said. “Meanwhile, (the club) has made course correction after course correction on its website to cover their butts.
“They are part of and affiliated, by definition, with Fort Bragg. They need to understand the Army and the military’s directive on this by the repeal of ‘Don’t Ask Don’t Tell.’ They need to step in line with that. If it comes down to the president (Mary Ring) of the spouses club imposing her personal beliefs on an organization, I would ask her to step aside and she may found her own nonprofit. But the Fort Bragg Officers’ Spouses club belongs to Fort Bragg."
A voicemail message left by NBC News with the Fort Bragg public affairs office was not returned. But on Friday, the American Military Partner Association (AMPA) — a support network for spouses or partners of LGBT service members - released a statement, revealing that Fort Bragg's commander will meet with Broadway on Dec. 20 to discuss her application.
According to both the AMPA and OutServe-SLDN, the association of actively serving LGBT military personnel, Fort Bragg Col. Jeffrey Sanborn, the Garrison commander, will meet with Broadway "to address the discrimination she is facing with the Association of Bragg Officers’ Spouses."
"By agreeing to this meeting, the post leadership is affirming that, indeed, it does have a role to play when a family in its community is treated unfairly by a group that holds itself out as representative of all military families," the AMPA's statement read. "Ashley looks forward to discussing not only the challenges her family has faced, but those faced by other same-sex military families in the Fort Bragg community.”
AMPA earlier had said it was “disappointed to see such exclusion.” (AMPA also has been monitoring the Bragg spouses club website and shared the recently removed bylaws with NBC News).
“The Fort Bragg Officers’ Spouse Club would not need to review the membership requirements if they had not changed the membership qualifications after Ms. Broadway requested to join their association,” the AMPA added in a statement Thursday emailed to NBC News. “The bylaws on which the FBOSC board has voted and approved are sufficient to allow all spouses of any military officer to become a member, ID or not."
Said Maxwell: “We expect them to do the right thing. We are looking for them to be the model for other organizations that are going to face this issue in the near future. This is going to come up again. This is an opportunity for Fort Bragg — their spouses club — to step out and be the leader we know they can be. They need to be the template by which others follow.”
At their home near Fort Bragg, Broadway and Mack are preparing for the arrival of their second child. But next year, Mack expects to head to Afghanistan to serve with her unit, Broadway said.
“My wife puts on the uniform like every other soldier,” Broadway said. “She knows she’s probably going to have to deploy as soon as she comes off her six-month maternity (leave). She’s prepared to give her life for the country that she loves. She’s prepared to save one of her soldiers in a time of attack. (Due to benefit inequalities for same-sex spouses in the military), she shouldn’t have to worry if her family is going to be taken care if, God forbid, something happens to her."
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Leave a Comment:
on the fence about this one...i dont agree with that life style but i dont agree with ostresizing someone for it either..but..the military is an entity of its own and pretty much makes it's own rules...best of luck to these ladies come what may .
Of course the repeal of DADT completely to the contrary.
Ridiculous that you think you get to "disagree" with who someone is. I disagree with your brown hair and your handedness (did you pick that?). At your age you probably picked the former, though. I doubt you picked the latter. Or your sexuality.
You know, I really hate it when someone opens with "I don't agree with that life style". It's like telling me you don't agree with the color of my skin, but you have to accept it. The color of anyone's skin is not a choice, just like being gay is not a choice!
Sorry janierock for stealing your post! Didn't know you posted until after I had!
Awww.... isn't this just the saddest, most unfairest thing ever.... those poor, poor, poor gay people....awwwww.
You know what's gonna be great, Tim? When the youth of today grow up and put hate and ignorance and bigotry and attempting silencing and belittling like yours out to pasture for good. Hate and ignorance is getting older and older and dying out slowly but surely. Not even the Duggars can reproduce quickly enough to outnumber all the young, open minded people who are going to end ignorance like this once and for all.
Well said, and really, this is all that should need to be said.
Un@!$%#ingbelievable, it's the 21st century, and we still hear such madness.
I'm going to go out on a limb here ... Timothy is gay.
He's just one of those "conservative" types ... so the gayness only comes out through the cover of dark shadows and feeble inhibitions.
Nope, I'm completely normal.
janierock - Tolerance is not only an attribute of the young. Your remarks suggesting otherwise are rather offensive.
What's "normal?" Being white, male, and stupid doesn't really qualify.
Timothy, allow me to break the news to you. NO ONE is "normal". Being normal is a fallacy; there ain't no such thing.
sorry tim but you'd only be considered normal around 40 years ago.
If the Federal government doesn't recognize gay marriages why should the military or its organizations? Has anyone ever thought about not overturning the established groups with your life style but starting your own group.
Sad, but true. Remember Star Wars? That bar they walked into that everything was so abnormal? Looks familiar now.
To add to HATR_HURTER about Tim "...in the deep South."
Sad to see Ms. Mary King and those hiding in her skirts (first names only) who want to perpetuate the stigma of not being "normal" or the right skin color or whatever in the Deep South. Shame, shame, shame.
I love that term "normal" when applied to people. Who was the first person ever say "you are normal, you are not". What if that person that came up with that was not normal? Who knows? What is normal exactly?
Homosexuality is not a lifestyle anymore than heterosexuality is. You either are or aren't. And Timothy, gay people are just as 'completely normal' as you claim to be, your binary thinking of there being gay people or normal people is intellectually false.
".i dont agree with that life style"
It's not your business to 'agree' with it, it's HER life, she's not breaking any laws.
Bigotry is a shameful and disgusting trait. Even when you cloak it in religion.
Mark, Cocoa, FL, STFU about the "Deep South." Racism and Homophobia exist everywhere in this country. And, as you just proved, so does stupidity.
Freedom of speech is in full force today. Love it.
What is amazing to me is "she is pregnant with their second child"....she may be pregnant with her second child but it cannot be biologically their second child.
Timothy YOU are not Normal
You are simply average
White People are not 'normal' most people are not white
Men are not 'normal' most people are not men
Americans are not 'normal' most people are not American
Get it?
Nah...I doubt you do or ever will.
Without lashing out at the Tim's, Janierock's, or Raquel's [and agreeing with many of the others].... the word "normal"...always brings to my mind what "normal" should represent, and that is...viewing a Normal Rockwell painting. They [the paintings] always seem to represent the very best in [hopefully] all of us.... compassion, empathy, emotional connections, "doing the right thing", and so on. Sadly, though....society as a whole, never quite seems to rise to the level that those painting depict. We all, to some degree, or other....fall short of possessing all those desirable traits, and I suspect that Mr. Rockwell knew that. As an artist, I believe that he was offering the viewer a "goal" to aspire to.
There will always be bigotry, malice, envy, graft, and violence [to mention just a few], and yet..... as a number of you have already mentioned..... we are all making progress in "right direction". The simple fact that we're having this discussion, is progress......and THAT is something to smile about.
I wish these two young ladies well...and I have no doubt that they'll rise above this seamy event in their lives...
Their is no proven sexual orientation gene, you might think being left handed was a choice also. They have not found a specific gene that directs a person to be left handed or gay. But that is why they banned gene therapy. So by claiming it something they are born to be or that claiming it is not a choice. Gives to that they are not normal. Normal being hetrosexual on the other hand people have been practice all types of sexual orientated lifestyles from the begining. So it all normal in retrospect.
Raquel, driving a minivan instead of a sedan is a "lifestyle" choice. One's sexual identity is pretty much innate, biological, and not chosen. (Think about it: When exactly did you "choose" to be heterosexual? Could you have chosen differently?) It's not a "lifestyle choice."
So, discriminating against homosexuals because they "chose" to be gay, is like discriminating against African Americans because they "chose" to be black.
I appreciate that you wish the best for this couple (even with their awful "lifestyle" choices). But it would be even more kind of you to support them because they are the exact human beings they could possibly be -- and because it would be fair and just to do so.
Just a thought.
Bad choice of words; I think "don't understand your sexual preference" would have been a little more polite.
As a heterosexual, I don't know if any of us can quite get their heads around it because it is so counter to what our instincts tell us but that's what makes us all unique. To say that you don't "agree" with it is a moot point; it isn't our place to agree or disagree.
The thing is, we should accept it without question, judgment or condemnation.
As far as the decision by the military, well as they used to say to me; "That's life in a blue suit."
Sharriannie...Are you suggesting a child is only "theirs" if it is biologically linked to both parents? As a mother to two adopted children I find this extremely insulting.
Thats hard to read sorry I left out some words.
I beg the differ. For years I lived in South Beach Miami, the Eastern Seaboard Gay/Lesbian/Transsexual capital. I'll be quite honest with you... While bartending, I saw some pretty messed up stuff that I never saw straight people do. It wasn't just once or twice either. Every single time we had a themed party for LBGTs somebody either got raped in the bathroom or someone would start eating the feces of another person or people would just start taking their cloths off (a representative from the health department somehow always was in the crowd and approached management about it being a health code violation) or you'd have to go break up fights between "men" hissing, spitting and trying to scratch each other to death with fake nails, LOL!!! After hours when we cut on the lights, there would be literally hundreds and hundreds of fake nails lying on the floor, used condoms everywhere, feces all over the bathroom floor, walls and sink.
NO, THE LBGT "LIFESTYLE" ISN'T NORMAL!
The type of behavior above is why Miami-Dade County stopped issuing new liquor licenses and moved many of the clubs to the Warehouse District of Miami. They decided that they wanted to make South Beach "Family Friendly"! And, it is a good thing that they did!!!
Hopefully with the Supreme court taking up the constitutionality of DOMA things like this will be resolved sooner rather than later. There really is only one way this can go if it is based on constitutional law and equality under the law. The opposition argument to marriage equality (on legal grounds) has eroded significantly in the last several years. Religious objections are not legal or constitutional. On a side note, it is nice to see the stereotypes of gays and lesbians eroding as well. The couple in the article appear to be upstanding members of the community and raising a family together, not at all the hell fire and free sex bed jumping imagery that was used to slander the gay community of the past. 15 years sounds like a committed relationship to me.
I went to bed in 2012, woke up in 1961??? For those of you claiming these ladies have a right to their prejudice, well, you're technically right.
But this is what I say.
Apply the "but for" test in regards to deciding who is/isn't a bigot. But for the rhetoric used against my fellow citizens, I would have nothing to say to and/or about those people. They use their personal biases as weapons to harm and attack my fellow citizens and people I care about. So yes, I will take every opportunity I have to stand up to them and point their fallacies out.
What is their "but for"??? But for someone's private and personal sexuality that harms them in no way???
Yes, they are entitled to their opinions, but they aren't entitled to our acceptance or swallowing of their opinions. There's a difference between being tolerant and being passive. I can tolerate their beliefs, I don't have to be passive in the face of their using those beliefs against my country's fundamental tenants and citizens.
EFC
No, I am only stating a fact. Biologically two women cannot procreate.
People have a right to disagree with specific lifestyles. I personally disagree with religious fanaticism, criminal lifestyles perpetrated by gangs, mobs and drug cartels, and anyone who advocates the treatment of a group of people as substandard citizens.
What we have here, is people adjusting to the current climate, and attempting to rapidly enact something reminiscent of the Jim Crow laws to maintain exclusivity. That is their right as a private organization, no matter how much I disagree with it. They may lose their affiliation with the base, but they're welcome to rename their group, gather elsewhere, and discriminate against whomever they wish.
My adoptive mother would love to have a word with you about whether or not it will be 'their child.'
Which has ZERO relevance.
You have to dig deep to be that mean and unpleasant.
Shariannie,
Why even bother saying that, then? IF that was your only point, than you can admit that it is still THEIR child, ergo your comment has no real purpose and doesn't communicate how you actually feel.
Of course that's IF that was your only point.
Just like this Mary King, person... If you're going to have the balls to be prejudice, have the balls to own your prejudice. Don't try to talk your away around admitting it, and don't try to change the bylaws when called out.
Heartlands - it will be intersting if SCOTUS rules against DOMA how this group will react. I suspect they have a board of homophobes whoi will than argue that they are a private organization and thus can pick and choose thier membership.
So, to prove your point, you recite "club" stories ... as if that's an accurate representation of the LBGT community as a whole?
That's pretty hilarious.
I take it you've never been to Mardi Gras, or Brazil for that matter. You know how many straight couples I've witnessed banging in bathrooms? While I've never personally seen them partake in the specific booty pleasures you so eloquently highlighted ... I'm pretty sure straight couples partake in a little ass-play, too :)
Funny. The majority of gay and lesbian coupes I know would like to live peacefully in a "family friendly" community as well. I'm pretty sure the two women referenced in this article don't care too much about swinging around in a nightclub with nipple-rings and glow sticks. Unless you're buying? In that case, let me grab my chaps, I'm coming too.
EarlyOut-1524710--- Right back at you what do you know about normal? It is a group of people who want to be social but want to pick and choose, it is their right. Whether I agree or not is not of consequence, I am not here to tell either side how to live. What I am tired of is people who think they are special refusing to conform to the groups standards and then trying to destroy the group that does not want them. Gays are not an ethnicity, who and what you have sex with is a choice, while not everyone agrees they simply do not have to. Your version is hate and intolerance is to the level or even exceeding the original groups bias, you just think you are justified to hate so much. If this gal had been allowed into the club the next thing we would be reading is about how they are open and normal even at Ft Bragg. The media war continues
BLAH BLAH BLAH gay is a deviants just like being a pediophile
Holly,
What will even be better, is when they realize that being affiliated with the military is not "private" and they're the ones that are kicked out and told to go start their own "group".
I'm not sure if I should laugh or cry at the preceding ignorant nonsense! One does not get to "approve" another persons sexuality. There is a difference between "norm" and "normal", the two words having nothing to do with each other. The painter's name was Norman Rockwell. Sexuality is not a "preference", it is an orientation. Whether or not their pending child is biologically linked to them at all is entirely irrelevant except as cover for the poster's bigotry, as is a recitation of supposed actions witnessed at a bar.
@ JanieRock
Ridiculous that you think you get to "disagree" with who someone is
It's equally ridiculous that you think someone isnt allowed to disagree with who someone is.
People have every right to be biased as long as it doesnt infringe on their individuals rights. This is a simple concept that the fragile hearts on the left like to forget about.
In this particular case, had the club been privately owned, I could give a crap less that her feelings were hurt. She would have no arguement.
However, in this particular case I believe she will have a case given the fact that the land and building are most likely owned by the Government, which translates to the people of the United Sates, which translates to the lesbian.
It is what it is.
She deserves NOTHING since she does not have a spouse ID card. The US government does not recognize this so called marriage - they only agree with "don't ask-don't tell. Their lifestyle should not be forced on the club.
@ Rick
Where do you get off stating that one does not get to approve or disapprove of anothers sexuality?
I disapprove of your sexuality....stop me.
@ Dick227
Hmmm, I hadnt caught that she wasnt a spouse ID card holder. I just saw wife.
Your are correct sir.
As a retired military let me say that military spouses are perhaps the worst thing about the military, followed closely by the childrfen of the military members. Spouse clubs are 1930s leftovers and never grew up. They have never had to deal with reality. Commanders are rarely willing to go against them because of all the off-duty hassle they will get, so the spouse club has a great deal of unofficial power and can often get away with breaking the rules as long as it isn't bad enough to force the commander's hand. Sad to see it happen here, but maybe the publicity will do something the commanders can't - force the club's hand and make them grow up.
Wait a minute. I thought the Army had weight standards. Both these women are women of size probably obese according to medical standards. yet the one is able to remain on active duty? Unbelievable. Wait a minute, she's a Lt. Col ? That's right, those standards only apply to enlisted personnel. What a crock !
@Dawg Pound......Dude, can't be tellin the truth on here, they'll collapse you every time for it.
This article makes a point of noting that this organization is NOT associated with the Department of Defense, yet these women claim that it IS "affiliated" with Fort Bragg. You can't have it both ways. If the Army does'nt recognize same-sex marriage under the Defense of Marriage Act, why should an organization of Army spouses do so?
According to Merriam-Webster, the medical definition of norm (the root of normal) is:
Medical Definition of NORM
: an established standard or average
a : a set standard of development or achievement usually derived from the average or median achievement of a large group
b : a pattern or trait taken to be typical in the behavior of a social group
______________________________________
The norm of human sexuality is to be attracted to sexually mature members of the opposite gender.
That makes every other type of sexual attraction, such as attraction to sexually immature people, to animals, or to the same gender, abnormal; a deviation from the norm.
Thus, homosexuality is NOT normal. It may not be as egregious as pedophilia or bestiality, but it is still a perversion of the norm of human sexuality.
Here is the deal. This is in reality a private organization. I spent 20 years on active duty and every place I have been the spouse's groups required you to Have a military ID Card. Without it she can not purchase items at the commissary, base PX etc. She is also not entitled to health care, dental care etc unde rthe military system. Guess what this is life. She is more then welcome to attend events as a guest with her so called spouse.
Now while I do not approve of all this gay rights stuff they are people and deserve to be treated as such. Yes they have rights and that is not an issue. The big thing here is that I am about tired of every gay and lesbian person or group etc expecting everyone to bend over and accept them. Guess what we do not have to accept or approve of their way of life. We do have to tolorate it but that does not mean that we have to open every door to them. As a private group they can pick and choose who they want. There are still Country Clubs in this Country where women can not be full members. The only way they can be part of the program is through their father, uncle, brother, husband etc who is a member so get over it. What amazes me is that there are groups in this nation that have more then 1 spouse but there are laws up against that flat out and I do not hear anyone whining to protect them and religious books all over are clear on many men having multiple wives without issue. No place in any religions text is there any mention of Eve and Eve or John and David being a couple. Yes God created us all but there is a reason there is a male and female sex of creatures
Why did everyone collapse Dawg Pound?
Just look at him like a rapper just rapping about what he see's in the ghetto. Boom, acceptable on the left.
Calling a spade a spade isn't socially acceptable, lying is. Everyone has lied about something to eliminate the horrible confrontation that would come if they didn't. Private groups should be able to establish membership rules and accept who they want to. They have as much right to reject someone with a particular sexual preference as they do the lawn maintenance man, regardless of how hypocritical they are. That is what makes them private.
Good reminder, my favorite scene. However even in that total concept of life mixer there was nothing homogeneous. There were still fights with arms and heads cut off spewing green blood.
"Why did everyone collapse Dawg Pound?"
Uhh, he kinda sorta let the cat outta the bag a little. Doncha think?
Excellent post DocC, you'll get collapsed next.
I think its"normal" to "agree and disagree" so wheres the problem silly ones!!!! And how did she get pregnant, that should be the focus here.
@foolishness abounds........Excellent post, expect to get it collapsed next.
The Army touts it's seven core values as a code to live by yet so many officers may as well tear those posters off the wall and wipe their ass with them. And wipe their wife's ass too.
I guess they are going to have to come up with some new definitions. i.e. Who is the "father" in a lesbian relationship? If a child of a lesbian is asked "who is your father?" How does he/she answer? or... what does the birth certificate say when it wants the father's name? Just one big batch of unanswered questions. Lesbians don't want to change their ideals but the want everyone else to change theirs. Many people just can't think or accept the ways homosexuals think and never will. But homosexuals expect others to see things their way. Just one big mess that may never really be cleared up to every ones satisfaction . Nature seems to be getting along just fine doing things the way they always have. But us humans find it harder and harder to do things to keep us all satisfied. Nature keeps the idea that one male, one female make a pair that is needed to carry on the existence of the species. Only humans believe differently. YUCK!
Nice try, foolish, but...foolish. Something that is not the "norm" is not therefore "abnormal". Right-handedness is the norm, but that does not make left-handedness abnormal, as both are normal.
"I think its"normal" to "disagree" so wheres the problem silly ones!!!!"
Gotta remember, it doesn't get any more far left leaning liberal than this site, and they don't take kindly to ANYONE disagreeing with ANY of their agenda's. You either agree, or your ass is chopped liver!
I will. It is "Gayental" for Parental. Who has gayental control, gayental authority or gayental privileges? Are you the gayent?
@ Muddlerfly
It's important to the left that everyone fall in line. Like little Red ducklings.
If you don't, they'll belittle and berate you at the Chic-Fil-A drive thru window.
sharriannie-
"What is amazing to me is "she is pregnant with their second child"....she may be pregnant with her second child but it cannot be biologically their second child."
How could you possibly know that she did not have her own ovum fertilized with a donors sperm? This would make it biologically hers. It would not be her partners biologically, but that means nothing. There are numerous families out there, gay and straight, that have the same kind of family dynamic.
foolishness abounds,
you try to make your point, but fall short. You don't know the difference among "norm", normal" and "perversion", so your post is just a ridiculous effort to quote a source to justify your unfounded prejudice.
I personally don't care whether someone likes gays or not, that isn't the point. You don't have to be gay, you don't have to associate with gays in your private life, and you certainly don't have to marry gay. Own it, be it and be proud of it.
However, our nation is founded on freedom and a core idea that all humans are equal before our laws and are to be treated equally in our public activities. Just like the South tried to justify segregation and prejudice by saying blacks are not fully human as a punishment from God, some try to make a case that gays are not fully human.
It won't work. Science, rational thinking and true Americanism will prevail.
@OleEd.......Subject to collapse in 1 2 3..... NEXT!
"the South is trying again to make a case that gays are not fully human."
How about cramming the Southern bashing where the sun doesn't shine there GoldPoint. You know full well if you have any sense at all that military communities are made up of folks from ALL walks of life no matter WHERE they may be located. I doubt very seriously that there is even a small handful of the members of that club true Southerners, so yeah, like I said, stick it up your anti Southern ASS!
In similar insignificant news, my neighbor is putting up his Christmas lights.
Is he gay?
I think the US Army should be less worried about whether this Lt. Colonel is lesbian or not, and more concerned with whether she can meet the physical fitness standards. Looks like both she and her partner are obese. Are our PT standards in the Armed Forces slipping that much? I don't think they would've gotten away with this 20 years ago.
Dude, she's PREGNANT.
Notice how the deviants stopped collapsing comments that didn't fully align with their back assward way of thinking after I called them on it a few times?
I feel sorry for these women, and I hope that they are eventually allowed in.
But you libs seem to be the most discriminatory right now. Someone disagrees with you and you have to go off on them??? She is not doing anything to stop these women from joining, just saying she doesnt agree with them and that is cause to become a mob? Then you guys start dissing the south (really accepting arent you) and you assume Timothy is white based on what exactly? In California (where I live) prop 8 passed making it so gay people could no longer marry. Who was the number 1 group that voted for it? You'd probably say mormons or any other the other groups people decided to start hating, but it was actually our black population. You call the right hateful, but then display so much bigotry to everyone you disagree with. If you want people to listen to you, let go of your own hate.
A another story of trying to win the hearts and minds to accept all sexual practices. There will come a day win contractual unions will replace marriage in legal definition. Another logical outcome will be sexual morality cannot be referenced. Release the floodgates of carnality as the backdoor will be wide open.
Don't know, don't care. (my own version of "don't ask, don't tell")
"Dude, she's PREGNANT."
They are BOTH lard asses and you know it!
Just to point out... Legal spouses of the Military personnel. federally the marriage between these two women is not legally recognized, our military is a FEDERAL entity. Therefore legally these two women have nothing to stand on trying to fight for the one to become a member. while they repealed DADT, it just means that you can be gay and not be kicked out. It did not mean that your partner who you may legally marry on a state level is required to be recognized on a federal level ( of which again, the military is a part of).
These are facts. you can not like them but it doesnt make them go away. what makes them go away is when the laws federally get changed. So all this posturing in states giving the right to marry doesnt really mean squat on a federal level. Just like the legalization of pot.. doesnt mean that you cant be arrested for a federal crime, just means the local police wont bust you ( as long as you are within their laws).
Dawg Pound got collapsed because the post is an outright lie. I challenge any homophobic person to go to a gay event and find someone eating feces, or drag queens "hissing." Walk into a mainstream gay bar, and you probably won't even realize you're in one until someone tells you.
The only person full of feces is Dawg Pound.
" ... Nope, I'm completely normal. ... "
Yes you are. And that is the problem. Fear, hate, ignorance, bigotry, and intolerance are "normal" in this country. They are becoming more and more unacceptable. But they still are the norm.
And that is sad.
What ever happened to ....
... " with Liberty and Justice for all. " ?
I suppose the next article NBC will get into is: KKK are admonished for not allowing membership to African Americans.
Damn. Where's the relevancy and why do I care about this.
My real question about this article though, is why continue to fight and pursue something of this magnitude that really has but little to offer this woman? If she even gets her foot in the door she's going to get hit with the next wave of attacks for getting in. Secondly, no one there will want her there. So why not find a suitable club/organization that does not mind your presence.
It's not just a "dependant" I.D. card. This isn't something to be trivialized. Right now same sex marriage is not a federal law/ right and therefore not currently recognized by the Department of Defense. When it comes to recognizing dependents/ spouses, individual military bases can't make their own rules, much less the clubs aboard those bases. The Army or even the Secretary of Defense can't change the rules governing who is defined as a spouse or dependent. That requires an executive order ratified by congress. We are talking about a "Spouses" organized club. A heterosexual soldier's girlfriend/ boyfriend wouldn't be eligible either. I'm not going to say that there isn't some bias and bigotry going on in the"Fort Bragg Spouses Club" but I would also offer that the article offers that slant as well. If the club president, Mrs. Ring, acted with personal bigotry, well she just sucks. This is going to take time and patience from everyone. Consider how difficult it is to change something simple in your local community. These decisions are a paradigm change on a society level. It's unrealistic to expect a change of this complexity to simply just happen. So many laws and policies have to be re-written and adjusted. It sounds simple but evidence dictates otherwise. It would be nice if everyone got a grip and didn't turn every snag in the fabric and bump in the road into a sinister plot be evildoers.
Y'all have a Merry Christmas, Happy Hanukkah, Happy Kwanzaa, Happy Holidays, Joyous Festivus, (I think Ramadan is over hope it was good for somebody).......... if you don't celebrate any of these have a good day. If you're an existentialist it really doesn't matter now does it? I don't think I left anyone out but if I did or if I offended someone by the inclusion of another group, well sorry you're offended.
Going to go out on a limb here. Homosexuality is not "normal", nor is heterosexuality or asexuality, they are however all three natural. They are found in all species on this Earth, from the smallest single cell aomeba to the biggest living breathing animals in our world. To discriminate against any creature based on its differences from your comfort zone is bigotry and bigotry is not natural, it is taught.
Excellent post Tseirpa,
Middle-aged straight white male and also quite Abnormal. (and proud of it)
What is with all this talk about a "gay gene". Being gay deals with being attracted to the same sex... is there an attraction gene?
Do I have the "attracted to skinny, blonde, big-titty women" gene? Does my buddy have the "chubby chaser" gene (because he likes them big)?
Is there a gene for guys attracted to red heads? Brunettes? Short girls? Tall girls?
Is there a gene for women attracted to buff men? Skinny guys? Black guys? White guys?
Hey look, that woman is married to a short, fat, bald, rich guy... she must have the "attracted to short, fat, bald, rich" gene.
Seriously people? This "gene" idea is ridiculous. There is no "attraction gene". Attraction is a physiological response to external stimuli. You meet someone, dopamine and serotonin get released in your brain, and you feel "attracted" to this person because of those chemicals. THAT is how it works. Those chemicals get released in your brain by people you are attracted to, and those same chemicals are released in a homosexuals brain for people he/she is attracted to. It's not a choice.
I swear, these religious conservatives are f***ing morons. Open a god damn science book for once in your miserable life. It's not a choice, it's not some magical force, it's not god sending you someone... it's the f***ing chemicals in your brain, idiot.
@Raquel - I agree with you. I personally don't agree with their lifystyle but no condemnation from me. Responses hammered at you for expressing your opinion-relating ones lifystyle choice to skin color, hair color, handidness etc...etc.. None of which are true. Even remotely. Their Lifestyle is a choice and/or a learned response based on their personal history and events in their life that lead them to choose the lesbian life. Everyone will shout NAY...NAY...but they know it's true, it's just not politically correct. Being Politically Correct with this crowd is more important than scientific evidence to the contrary. Don't you think that if their lifestyle was not of their choosing but was something hardwired from birth like skin color, that they would be a protected class? Just like race, color, creed, religion, or national origin...
The missing scientific evidence that would prove their case has not yet been found and until then, it will continue to be considered a lifestyle choice. The scientific evidence is not difficult to produce either!
It is simple and easy, they know it, but can't produce it (YET)! Maybe some day.
it's called an "Identical Twin" study. Genetically, twins - Identical Twins - are...well...IDENTICAL. In study after study of Identical Twins, they cannot produce a single dyad where both are either gay or lesbian.
Identical Twin study is not junk science so don't let others brow beat you into believing that. Identical Twin studies are the "Gold Standard" for all genetic studies looking for that common element that would show that a genetic cause is present. Their are degrees of genetic links...such as if you have a Mother or Father or Grandmother or Grandfather etc that has Schizophrenia you have a X% chance of having off spring who will also be Schizophrenic.
This study is the Holy Grail for the Gay/Lesbian community. When it is found, there will be a great shout of rejoycing and society's impression will change almost overnight except for the hard core biggots out there. They will never change because they are ignorant of what Science can prove.
Stick by your opinions until proven scientifically different. It is the Intellectual Approach to any argument.
Homosexuality is a form of insanity. Its completely self destructive.
While it's true that no "gay" gene has been found, they have found evidence that homosexuality is congenital, apparently triggered by biochemical changes in the environment of the mother's womb which they suspect have to do with the immune system. Mom's body gives birth to a straight child, but when she next gets pregnant, her system does not reset but views the second child as some kind of external entity and mounts a defense against it. They are still studying but have found nothing that supports the allegation of a "lifestyle." For a private organization that often comprises the only social network available to military dependents, to ostracize her is cruel and yes, possibly illegal, since they actually changed the regulations to refuse her after she had applied.
Boop Hoo for the gay and lesbian and transgender crowd !! They only got dadt overturned by a Liberal Democrat president against the average Americans wishes !!! They try and push the civil rights thing at us but that dog don't hunt !!!
Their second child? Really? No, I think Mack is pregnant with her child. Broadway has no genetic relationship to the fetus. My question here is are their any male members of the spouses club? If there are I would be more inclined to support her being a member. If not than no. Here's where the whole thing about allowing homosexuals to serve openly in the military doesn't make any sense. In basic training you are housed with your same sex in barracks or dorms. If I were a homosexual I would be housed with the gender I am sexually attracted to. In my opinion it's like allowing straight men in women's bathrooms or dressing rooms. If I were entering the military today I would demand that I be able to live, sleep, and shower with the females in their dorm. Same argument.
Military wives clubs are notorious for catty behavior, so this doesn't surprise me. Most of these women need to stop wearing their husband's rank and get jobs. If they're stay-at-home moms, then awesome, two-thumbs-up, but socializing with people outside the military, when possible, helps one maintain a better sense of balance and perspective.
And people who dislike GLBT, what did they ever do to you? I haven't met many well-adjusted guys under 30 who have any negativity toward or desire to exclude GLBT.
"Nature keeps the idea that one male, one female make a pair that is needed to carry on the existence of the species. Only humans believe differently. YUCK!"
Actually, NATURE DEMONSTRATES differently. Same sex coupling is common among penguins and several other species. Not to mention, some species are female only. Not only does reality have a liberal bias, but nature does, too. It is only scientifically illiterate ignoramuses that believe otherwise.
I love it when people say that their sexual orientation isn't a choice so everyone should just accept it. It very well may not be a choice, but neither is being a paranoid schizophrenic. Just because it isn't a conscious choice doesn't make it socially correct. It is still a sexual deviance. It's not ok to talk to the voices in your head, but it is ok to be sexually attracted to a person that you can't procreate with? Nature this and nature that. Yeah nature is liberal; as a matter of fact, it's as liberal as it gets, the only rule is might makes right. If you're the biggest and the baddest you get to do whatever you please and there is nothing to stop you... In nature male lions will kill off rival's cubs, but I can't go into my neighbor's house and slaughter the children just because I can physically overpower the entire family. So where do you draw the line? How can anyone stand there and demand that everyone else be sympathetic and accepting of their beliefs, but they themselves think everyone else is wrong?
Cynisturb
OK...then YOU can be a penguin, I'll remain human...thanks. Oh ya, sorry for my opinion.
Cynisturb
OK...then YOU can be a penguin, I'll remain human...thanks. Oh ya, sorry for my opinion.
do they have the right picture? cause that one looks like a mother and daughter.
The ignorance throughout this thread is a wash. I didn't know so many people could be so stupid, yet speak as if they know all.
Homosexuality is not a deviance if it happens in nature, void of free willing humans. In other words, if there is a God and He created this Earth, why would He create homosexual deer, dolphins, birds, and so on but specify humans to only be a certain way? It is only a deviance according to a book written by humans---not God. Yes, since it was written by humans, the belief that it has anything to do with God is a total crock. That is even if such a thing as God exists which can not be proven. Yes, you may believe in God if you like. I won't stop you...but just because you believe, it does not make someone else a deviant based on made up crap written in a book. Many of you same people also think it is God's will that we kill all Muslims because they attacked us---did you conveniently forget they want to kill us because it is their God's will? So our God is real and just but theirs is a joke and the devil? Religion is the most murderous idea ever thought of by man...and you really want to say two people who love each other are deviants? That is rather hilarious when relationships that last a while---hetero or homo---stop being about sex or anything deviant at all.
All the other ignorance aside, the issue in this story has nothing to do with the couple being gay or having children, the size of their waistlines. or anything else the rest of you have conjured up. It has to do with one simple fact. She tried to join the group. They rejected her because she was without a military identification card. However, that was never stated or specified within the groups bylaws. That is the issue here. And seeing as though the group is affiliated with the base, the group is either going to have to find other means to host their events(a private group can dictate who joins), meetings, etc...or allow her to join because she is a spouse's wife and "don't ask, don't tell," was repealed. Her not joining goes against everything the military stands for---family, support of troops, community, leadership, etc...all because she and her partner are gay?(they've also been together for 15 years---how many heterosexual couples last 5 years?)
As much as I want to keep reading, the comments here are sickening and a sad showing for this country. Why? Because we choose our clothes and the cars we drive. We do not choose to have a certain color skin, nor do we choose what gender we are interested in...younger generations are now seeking partners while their partner's gender is an after thought. That is not to denounce older generations...I was privy to a piano bar in NYC filled with men old enough to have fought in Vietnam/WW2. If I didn't know I was in a gay bar, I never would have questioned it. It was very normal, only it was missing a key ingredient of straight bars. Sweaty, ignorant men trying to talk the pants off of every woman with cheesy opening lines. If I had a say, I'd go back any day...my girl would certainly like it more.
Soup to Nuts: They didn't study my twin boys - one is gay, one straight - "traditional" family situation; mother, father, sister, older brother. No major traumatic experiences; no sexual abuse; were both raised exactly the same way; we believe in God and attend Church (however a different one so that my son is also welcomed) - trust me, he didn't "choose" to be gay; nor did something "bad" happen to him to "make" him gay; he was born gay as the Good Lord made him. Plain and simple. What I don't get from any of you people is how does anybody getting equal HUMAN rights hurt you? You all keep talking about "slippery slopes" - the only slippery slope I see is the one where you start taking others rights away, whose rights are next? Yours?
Why someone would want to join an organization that doesn't want them and would probably ostracize her is beyond me. Even if the organization were forced to accept her as a member and noone wanted to talk or associate with her, would she make a fuss demanding that they should talk and associate with her?
This appears again as an activist act. The lieutenant colonel knows that with this publicity, she will only get desk jobs and no further promotions. That is the way the services act to this kind of behavior. She put her politics before her best interest.
Another gay thread with thousands of post replies. That's normal.
And your's makes it 1,001.
There could be other reasons why this same sex wife was banned from a Spouses Club at Fort Bragg. The spouses club officials can ban anyone they want for numerous reasons..
Now watch the ACLU, Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton, Rachel Maddow, and others at MSNBC, NBC, and CNN get involved in this issue and push it for all it is worth
You better believe it. No quarter.
Nope. Tom. Adjusting the rules for membership AFTER THE FACT in order to have rationale for banning her? That's not "other reasons". That's an unwillingness to admit that as a private organization they can admit who they like and they have specifically chosen NOT to like this woman as a member. At least they should have the courage and simply military honesty to say - "you're not in because you're in a same-sex relationship". That would show some integrity. This action, instead, showed cowardice.
Nope. Tom. Adjusting the rules for membership AFTER THE FACT in order to have rationale for banning her? That's not "other reasons". That's an unwillingness to admit that as a private organization they can admit who they like and they have specifically chosen NOT to like this woman as a member. At least they should have the courage and simply military honesty to say - "you're not in because you're in a same-sex relationship". That would show some integrity. This action, instead, showed cowardice.
Here we go, talking about the "mainstream media". That seems to be the defense used by the right wing people. Sad that you Tom Cunnally have to go there rather than discussing the issue.
Let's see if you can make up one.
Cult of Personality
just like being gay is not a choice!
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Who takes their pants off to have sex?
=================================
"The spouses club officials can ban anyone they want for numerous reasons"...
Nope. Not if "the club" use federal facilities (where does it meet?), funding, or other public resources anywhere along the way. This will be resolved very shortly after counsel gets involved.
So Tom if this was not the reason....I can assume you support Gays serving in the military and complete equal rights for them and their families in every way?
Thought not.
You fool nobody
The sad fact is this "club" can use non-public venues and discriminate all they want. That stated it's still f-ed up, and they should be honest and simply state that they are homophobic, then maybe all the members who have any decency will leave the organization and start one that is more inclusive.
This spouses club is a nonprofit according to the article.
As a nonprofit they need to comply with federal anti-discriminatory laws. If they are in violation of this by not allowing this military spouse to join, then they are in violation of that law and need to have their status and licenses revoked.
Miss Kitty,
You'll have to explain the rationale behind your statement.
You seem to be saying that this group is not allowed to use Federal facilities because they don't recognize homosexual marriage.
Do you believe that the United States Army should be banned from Federal facilities since it doesn't, as well?
And, whether AMANDA likes it or not, for the time being anyway, the Defense of Marriage Act is also a Federal law. If the Federal government does not recognize gay marriage, how can this group of Army SPOUSES be barred for adhering to Federal law?
"The Association of Bragg Officers’ Spouses is a nonprofit, according to its website, meaning it is not directly associated with the Department of Defense."
This group met and decided to not let a gay couple join their club....what about all the gay clubs and African American Clubs that will not allow anyone to join unless they are gay or African American....where is the outrage for these clubs??
A few white members of congress tried to join the Congressional Black Caucus and were told to get lost in no uncertain terms... Does ACTUP allow anyone who is NOT a gay or transgender to join their groups??
What part of Spouse don't you understand. Just because the Military was forced to accept homosexuals, doesn't mean that they acknowledge homosexual marriage. It is not a recognized union. It is also a private organization.
really USMC thats youre best argument????
Are you completely dense?
It's a club for military spouses of fort bragg. She fits that description. It doesn't say club for STRAIGHT military spouses does it?!?! NOPE. If that was the case, she'd move along happily to the next club. In order to be part of a gay club, you must be gay, in order to be a part of a black club, you must be black, and in order to be a part of a military spouse club, you must be a military spouse...unless of course they change their membership rules AFTER she applies like a bunch of cowards. It's disgusting you cant see that.
If this african american club you speak of, denied someone because they were homosexual even though they were still black...we'd have the SAME problem.
The military is a branch of the Federal government; which is held to federal law.
DOMA dictates that these women are not married under federal law and DOMA is still in force in-spite of what two - of 12 - corrupt appellate courts opined.
The courts do not call the shots in this nation; we the people do.
since when did the world start to revolve around gay people... stop complaining
usmc Act up is open to all people FYI
Same sex Marriage is Wrong! So I am glad people take a stand and say NO to it. Society is going to hell in a hand basket! Doesn't anyone believe in GOD anymore...THE BIBLE? God mad ADAM AND EVE not ADAM & STEVE or EVE AND EVETTE.. We have come to be a backward society, where anything goes. Everyone laughing in GODs face. Look around he is noticing.
Also, if they are "non-profit" and "not directly associated with the DoD" then, the Defense of Marriage Act DOES NOT APPLY.
They can't have it both ways...but bigots always want it both ways (their sub-conscious desires maybe?) :-)
Being a national organization they are a non-profit under the federal registry. The Boy Scouts do not have to recognize these unions either; nor do any other faith based group.
The perverts a desperate to force acceptance of their depravity.
EngEsq
The sad fact is this "club" can use non-public venues and discriminate all they want. That stated it's still f-ed up, and they should be honest and simply state that they are homophobic, then maybe all the members who have any decency will leave the organization and start one that is more inclusive.
Homophobic is being afraid of humans, not agreeing with the homosexual lifestyle is something different. Please refrain from carrying the liberal water bucket, speak not of which you don't know. IF, this club uses public monies, they are in the wrong, if not, more power to them. ACLU is the same group protecting the "rights" of terrorist, screw em.
And if you read my post, you'll note that I said 'IF THEY ARE IN VIOLATION.'
I did not say that they indeed were.
At the time I posted that, I had not yet researched laws applicable to the situation and so did not definitely say that they were indeed in violation.
Now, that being said, I went back and researched the laws governing nonprofits in NC. Since non-profit organizations in the United States are, like for-profit corporations, mostly organized and operated under the law of a state, rather than the federal government, whatever state law decrees should apply here.
Per my research, I found that:
North Carolina outlaws discrimination based on religion, color, national origin, age, sex or handicap, but does not outlaw discrimination due to sexual orientation or gender identity.
And:
Despite the U.S. military allowing openly homosexual and bisexual servicemembers since September 20, 2011, the partners of gay or lesbian servicemembers and the same-sex partners of bisexual servicemembers are not treated on a par with the different-sex spouses of military servicemembers because of restriction imposed by the Defense of Marriage Act (DOMA). Same-sex spouses are denied death benefits, identification cards, base access, access to repatriation ceremonies, and other entitlements.
Then:
Section 3 of DOMA codifies the non-recognition of same-sex marriages for all federal purposes, including insurance benefits for government employees, Social Security survivors' benefits, immigration, and the filing of joint tax returns.
Here's the actual text of section 3:
But then:
Section 3 of DOMA has been found unconstitutional in eight federal courts, including the First and Second Circuit Court of Appeals, on issues including bankruptcy, public employee benefits,estate taxes, and immigration.
However distasteful I personally may find it, I do have to conclude that this military spouses organization would, therefore, not be in violation of state or federal law...yet.
And I say 'yet' because legislation is already in progress that would effectively repeal DOMA, called the Respect for Marriage Act;
It's only matter of time before DOMA falls.
Sigh... itsjustmi, Rivamr, all the other whining Bible beaters on here. Please understand something. I am a person who believes in the Bible. The Bible says that homosexuality is incorrect. Now pay attention. It also says, in the same verse, that sex before marriage is incorrect. That using idols in your worship or praying to anyone else besides God (are you Catholic? Do you pray to saints) is incorrect. That lying, drunkness, and loving violence are incorrect.
That being said - how in the great Gazoo are you going to come out, cherry pick one item from the list, and ask the Federal Government and Military to take a stand for it? Whatever happened to Jesus saying "My Kingdom is not part of the world". Jesus is the one who setup the separation of church and state!
He said we need to show love to everyone, even those who hate us. I think you've turned that backwards, and you're showing hate to others. He never told any of his followers to abuse, kill, deny equal rights, or in any other way put down those that chose to believe and live their life the way they want to.
Also, how hypocritical is it that you want the MILITARY to enforce bible commands, when Jesus clearly stated, "thou shalt not kill"?
Get over yourselves people. Everyone has free will and free choice. If you're going to live by Bible commandments, than just do it. Don't try to force others to do it as well. And don't be hypocritical, picking something to condemn others over when you're doing things the bible says is just as bad.
@itsjustmi - Y'know, the whole picture of Christians being "ordained by God" to rule the world apparently makes them "immune" to the laws of their own book, like, oh I dunno, ADULTERY?! MURDER?! LYING?!
You Christians seem to think that Muslims/Asians/Blacks aren't important enough to be protected from persecution and genocide, but if a White Christian be persecuted? MOVE THE HEAVENS, SOUND THE WARHORNS! WE'RE GONNA KILL US SOME NE.GROS TONIGHT! DEATH TO ALLAH! DEATH TO CHINGYONG! GLORY TO GOD AND HIS MOST INEFFABLE TYRANT, THE 85TH REINCARNATION OF HERR LORD JOSEPH SMITH!
Now look me in the eyes and tell me that whole argument doesn't sound stupid in the slightest. If you can manage to do that without flinching even once, I'll drive your friggin' head into a nail that just so happens to be sticking out of the cross you love so damn much.
Seriously, we need a decree that says extremism is a crime punishable by an excruciatingly painful death. To hell with the 8th Amendment - hardly any of you extremist white male repugnicants respect it anyways.
The Bible says very specifically 'Thou shalt not lie with a man as with a woman--it is a detestable thing."
(my copy of the Bible was printed in 1961, and says detestable thing--a 2011 copy changes it to 'an abomination'. So much for the unchanging Word of God.)
It says nothing however, about two women lying down together.
So in God's eyes these two women must be okay--God must have a double standard.
USMC as the mother of two soldiers one of which is a Marine, I am ashamed for you and your bigotry. My sons put their lives on the line for freedom, equal rights and justice for every citizen regardless of their sexuality, color, religion or gender. That is what the military was created for, not for marginalizing, spreading hate, or spreading hypocrisy.
If this is a case of discrimination it is sad and shameful to see so many people making excuses and justifying any form of discrimination. Lines such as its a choice! (So what if it was?). You should be ashamed of yourselves, THAT is not what this country is built on, it is built on freedoms and rights not restriction of rights.
How can you judge the marriages of gay men and woman who are out there serving in the forces and fighting for your rights? Yes that also includes your right to casually throw their relationships aside, make snide remarks about their lives and deny the spouses of men and woman fighting overseas the respect you damn well owe them.
Just becasue something is not recognized in law that does not mean that lack of recognition is right.
What exactly goes on in these Army Spouse Club meetings? Are the members of the Fort Bragg Spouses Club discussing the sexual activity they have with their spouses? Is that why they want the exclusively hetero viewpoint?
On the other hand, why would this gay woman want to join a club that is so obviously against having her as a member? This is a social function discrimination, not a life and death matter - like work or housing. Why not open a new club - the Welcome Spouses Club and see if women with different sensibility bail on the Ft. Bragg Spouses Club and join the new one?
As for RIVABR's comment on the world revolving around gay people - stop being ridiculous.
Crimson,
Please don't judge all Christians based on the nutbags... kind of like how we ask the nutbags not to judge all Muslims based on their crazies. The bible is a book of principals, which typically do help many in their daily life. Jesus was very specific on saying his followers cannot serve in the military, cannot have sex before marriage, and cannot get political. He said we have to love and respect everyone, especially those not of our faith. The whole "conversion" thing? That's supposed to happen, as the bible says "they will be won without a word, based upon your fine acts".... in other words, if people see Christians leading happy normal lives, and they want guidance in their own lives, they'll follow the example the Christians set. Christians were never supposed to be in politics or try to force others to live by their beliefs.
Best quote for our day - Ghadi - I like your Christ. It is sad your Christians are so unlike your Christ.
Amanda, since the bible was written in Hebrew, Greek, and Aramaic, no modern translations are the original words of God. That said, yes the bible teaches that homosexuality is wrong, along with many, many other practices that are extremely commonplace today. Next time a religious person bugs you by condemning homosexuality, just ask them why they're wearing a cross, or pray to saints, or have little statues in their churches, when the Bible specifically condemns those things, just as strong as homosexuality.
I wouldn't try to put down Christianity in general - but feel free to mock those who are trying to set a double standard for themselves. It's what Jesus would have done, after all, he did call the Pharisees that were inventing laws for the people and not following it themselves "White Washed Graves". Nice looking on the outside, but just full of dusty bones and dust on the inside.
@Linero - This is just my personal opinion, so take it with a grain of salt....
I truly believe that organizations like this are made up of old geezers who, in their realization of mortality (and the fear of being forgotten that comes with it), they are vying for one last bid to attain their eternal perfection on earth. That means writing off these "spouses" as little more than sex slaves.
I mean, after all, most times I see a hetero marriage, usually they bang that night to avoid the oh-so-eternal-sin of not having sex before marriage, then divorce and say that "I never sinned, because I was married to this woman when we united in the form God intended us to!"
Sometimes I'm ashamed to be a white male, because these f-ing fat geezers from Bethelsville, Tennessee (or wherever it is these extremist forms of crap come from) do the most atrocious things sometimes (that said, I truly do curse my age as well - some of the crap coming from my generation and that of the generation after me are also so stupid I just want the world to shut up, stop and think for a second).
@Travis - I was being VERY specific in how I addressed them. I know not all Christians are cut of the same cloth, but the most vocal and apparent are made from it.
I'm very sensitive to the hatred coming from others - it tends to poison my mind and make me say and do things I'd otherwise eschew and abhor.
My two mothers are also lesbian, but generally our lives aren't really that threatened by this.... "menace". However, any threat to the happiness of the two women who raised me in place of a male coward who would never lift a finger to see his own son would cause me to raise enough anger to make even the most devout of Al Qaeda frightened enough to consider halting his stupidity.
linero:
As i understand it, these army spouses clubs nationwide are involved with sending care packages to soldiers deployed overseas, attending functions that support veterans and active-duty military, and fundraisers for VA hospitals and post-deployment care.
This lady is the spouse of a soldier who will be deployed after the 6 month maternity leave is complete. If she is not recognized as the Lt. Col's spouse, if that Lt. Col is killed overseas she will not be able to be present when her spouse's body is brought home, not be permitted to receive the flag of honor given to all spouses of fallen military,and be barred from receiving and spousal benefits until she can find a job that would support herself and their two children.
And THAT is the ultimate travesty here. Whether or not your marriage is legally recognized or not, you should have the right to be present when your loved one dies and is brought home!!!!!
They should allow this person into their Club. Then one by one tell that spouse in person you are not welcome here. Then all this media stuff would go away and it wouldn't be such a big deal as it is now. BTW who did call the media on this story? That person should be thrown out of the club.
Travis,
You are incorrect, the actual commandment when translated correctly is, 'Thou Shalt Not Murder"! Big difference in the wording there... The Bible also says, 'Love thy Neighbor, as thy Self'! I believe this is Mark 12:31, so you are incorrect on two points in your post...
Technically, the specific passages in the bible that can be interpreted as dealing with homosexuality in some way... all 6 of them... are not necessarily referring to the sexual orientation itself.
In almost all cases, it is referring to man on man rape, as was common place in that time period.
Of course, this level of research and understanding is beyond the typical Sunday school moron who follows whatever their church says like a lemming.
And lets not forget that Jesus, their so-called "savior", did not say one word about it. He did talk in great lengths about loving one another, not judging, and showing love to your enemy. But again, that would require christians to actually follow the teachings of Jesus, which we all know is a laughable idea.
@Vincent - Most likely a 55-year old windbag who was looking for book deals, interviews, and endorsements by Donald Trump. I mean, that IS where the extremists get all their inspiration - from the greed and gluttony of attention.
It goes back to what I was saying earlier - the older adults (50 and up) are realizing their mortality and are scared of being forgotten (and quite honestly, I can't say I blame them - given how today's youth seems to be brimming with the ignorance of a thousand extremist Christians and the sex drive of five hundred horny bulldogs) - they're doing everything in their power to make sure their histories remain upon this Earth for all to see (or at worst, they're hoping the young ones kill themselves off first so they can have it all to themselves at the "end of days").
Travis,
Apology, Mis-read your post on the 'Love Point', you were making...
People, the military is not a democracy, it is a hierarchy. That means that decisions are made from regulations and policies derived and endorsed be a single entity. Currently the regulations recognize that homosexuals can serve in the military but that is it. It does not recognize same sex marriages so they do not get the ID card and benefits until the regulation changes.
She or It said it several times. " It was a blow, it was a blow". Bill clinton said that was not sex. It was a blow.
Normal healthy married people should be able to have sex. This is just a Blow.
Thanks for the report.
I take it Tom is a fan/ plant from Fox news so maybe that's where you post you idiotic comments on that foolish stupid dumb and ignorant one minded organization.
hank, sorry that my company (fox) bothers you. What do you do to support yourself? Ha
hey Association of Bragg Officers' Spouses, that rock you tripped on, yeah that wasnt power, it was poop
CBurroughs - original Hebrew actual reads thou shalt not kill. Jesus expanded upon it by stating that all who live by the sword will die by the sword. He told everyone his followers would not learn war anymore. This was a pretty major departure from the old covenant with the Israelites and the New Covenant with the Christians.
Somewhat beside the point, I was just pointing out how silly these people were stating that the secular, federal military should somehow be in charge of forcing Christian principals. It's ridiculous and hypocritical by any standard.
Also everyone please ignore I'll always be better than you... get better at trolling, kid.
Wow... just so much in that comment to pick apart and mock you for... but you've done it again; made it so easy to make fun of you it's sad, like laughing when an obese kid drops his ice cream cone on the ground and seriously considering eating it off the floor. Well done sir.
Oye, ok, for the knuckleheads that have no clue. The Military is not bound to the same "laws" enjoyed by civilians.
They go by the current provisions of the Federal Laws, period. The DOMA contests at State levels are irrelevant, since they cannot and will not be recognized.
The changes to policy are also not a discussion, since they STILL having corrected information after the change from Don't Ask, Don't Tell, I know it's difficult to imagine, but people actually have far more important things to tend to, then the battles of homosexuals.
Keep in mind, they have been domestic partners for over 15 years... meaning her counterpart was in the Military at a time when it was deemed "illegal".
Nice to know that both had such a respect for Military Code, prior to the repeal of DADT. But sure as shooting, they are going to twist the "Code" to their advantage...
Never trust someone who uses the same rules, they themselves chose to take arbitrary and chose to violate for person desires.
Wasn't deemed as illegal, LJ, it was under "Don't Ask Don't Tell", which was a legal arrangement. Nice twisting of facts though. Once DOMA is gone, this won't be an issue.
But that's not the question here, what's at hand is an organization purposely trying to change their rules to specifically exclude someone who was qualified previously. Since this is a organization supported in an official manner by the federal government, they are not allowed to introduce discriminatory practices, especially in circumstances where they're trying to change with a specific purpose of excluding someone. Just like if you go to the post office, ask for a stamp, and they scribble on their sign in a sharpie, "No blonds allowed", turn around and say, I'm sorry, I can't sell you stamp, policy.... yeah, that doesn't fly.
I'll Always be Better Then You
You should try reading up a little about the topic of gay men and woman having children. The children are no more likely to become gay than if they were with parents of opposite sex. Education. you should try it!
RandyEK - "The courts do not call the shots in this nation; we the people do."
Oversimplification. The Legislative branch makes laws it believes the people want (in theory). The Executive branch approves these laws or disapproves them making their enactment require a larger majority to pass.
The Judicial branch interprets law (including and especially conformance to Constitutional law) and uses the tools at it's disposable to enforce or strike down the law.
So in the sense that laws are written and passed 'by the people', enacted by the government, and interpreted by the judiciary, they do in fact 'call the shots'.
If you don't like it, take it up with the founding fathers.
Love it or leave it.
Hi, I am the old geezer (over 55 you said crimsoncujo?) who served in the US Army back in the 70's. I, among others, tried to fix what we thought was broken by the previous generations and now realize we left havoc in our wake just as those before us did. Speaking personally, I dont intend to leave this world a reminder to anyone I was here. My will states emphatically no military burial, in fact, no burial at all. Just hospice the last few weeks and thrown into the incinerator (from dust to whatever comes out) It was no secret there were all types serving their country. in the 70's .... gays, colors, religions, intelligent and fools in every branch I worked with. I was signal corps and that was not an easy place for women. I have never liked the "clubs" no matter what good they accomplished. Officer's wives looked down on to the enlisted personnel as scum and we kicked out officer's spouses from the EM clubs as fast as they kicked us out of theirs. Women had just started being enlisted personnel, 9 wks mens basics Women's Army Corps was over. But through all these decades, whether serving my country, my church, my city, county or state, I have learned one thing.... we will blame someone elses actions by performing an equally distasteful act doing it. I think maybe our egos are so fragile or we feel so helpless to 'fix' things we inevitably fix one thing by damaging 3 other things while we perform the greater good. My time to fight is over, I will pass wo anyone the wiser, US Veterans Hospital will say "she is not here" and throw my remains in the trash. I would love to say it is to save land for planting food, or that I am humble. Nope, not that. I have scars where I waded into fights I couldnt win for soldiers of all colors, genders, religions all because of their uniform and it was "us against them" them being civilians that didnt like war, or any of the other reasons I have stated. I dont want my name remembered after I am gone, I just want something good I did to help those that come behind me to do better. I dont want a service of any type because I look back and cant see much of a difference. I hear the hate, anger, moral indignation and realize that decades later nothing has changed. There is still not enough support for the men and women who willingly signed up knowing they could be sent to war and die, leaving loved ones wo any support. In the name of choice, morality, fear, hatred? and yet we willingly break every religious and moral belief to protect this country. We kill and are hated for those things we are willing to die for, the things you have..... freedom for the few ... no longer for the masses. My point? I agree, every one in that club should stand in public and verbally state their name and vote aloud so that a new club can begin and as far as their hypocrisy using the government facilities. NO go rent somewhere off those hallowed grounds where the living walk and ghosts linger. I was ashamed of you using government ground "to do sooooo much good" while you played "I am better than you" decades ago and I havent changed my mind. Old geezers? yep, hanging onto their vestige of youth and their ability to "keep the trash out" support the purists and refusing to 'move over' it is time for a changing of the guard. their time has passed and so has mine... so I got out of line and allowed the newer, younger, stronger to step up to their responsibilities.I trust they will build a world they envision and I hope they enjoy it because I wont be standing in their way just cheering from the side lines.
To I'llAlways Be BetterThanYou:: One, you'll NEVER be better than I. Two, where the "h e double toothpicks" do you think that homosexual children come from. From a male/female pair. Did that hetero couple teach their kid to be homosexual? No, the kid was born with that inclination-- it was GOD GIVEN.
And I see somebody has suggested you get some education. In order for that, you would need to have brains between your ears-- which I gather you do not have.
So you see, your God has erred on two counts-- He made a homosexual child and He put your brains in the wrong place.
I'll always be better than you...(your name should say than as I have it written, not then as it says it your name)...
You should read up on your "free speech rights". Then, maybe you will understand why you have them, where they are relevant, and not just claim anything you say can be said because of "free speech". Because it can't...but clearly you are an ignoramus of the highest order. The kind of person who goes around citing things...yet knows nothing of what he speaks.
Travis...not all of you are nutbags so thank you for not being so. Sadly, the nutbags seem to outweigh those like yourself.
Nice work on all the info, Amanda. Sad to see so many people not use the tools right at their fingertips. And to think we were seemingly more accepting of each other when knowledge was harder to obtain...
Linda Wolfe, whether you wish the acknowledgement or not, Thank you. Even if you only did very little, at least you did some, many others sit on their hands and pretend it will get better on its own.
" ... ACLU is the same group protecting the "rights" of terrorist, screw em. ... "
The ACLU also protects YOUR "rights".
Huh, Imagine that.
Tom cut the crap... this is the military and it doesn't take rocket science to tell why she was banned.... And talk about pushing?... wait till that Pencil pushing Fox nutcase puts it on "talking points"... but then he's too busy with Libya now...
You forgot to put quotes around "minds".
Bmore, there's no reason to YELL. You make no more sense loud than you do at normal volume.
Just one question. Why is that when someone disagrees with you it is immediately assumed they watch FoxNews. We all have common sense, at least I would think we do. This is a Liberal news agency. The commentors are reading from it. Just because I read the news doesn't mean I have to agree with the stance or position the news agency puts forward. To tell you the truth I never watch Fox News. But I do go around searching for all sides of the story.
Now to the point of the article. If the members of the club don't feel comfortable admitting a gay member into their club, then they don't have to. If you're not wanted why would you WANT to join? Don't have to join it is a free country. I think it is more just to get publicity. If I was not welcome to something I sure the heck wouldn't force my way into to. I would steer clear.
Isa'dna! - but that is how inequality is remedied. If blacks didn't go where they weren't welcomed, if they didn't try to get the same rights as whites, where do you think they'd be now? Still sitting at the back of the bus? Still banned from certain "whites only" stores? Still slaves? Of course they are trying to get publicity, so they can effect change! And, if this club is truly private, then, however pathetic it is, they do have the right to discriminate, but if they are using Fort Bragg in their name and representing that base, they may not be entirely private, and not be legally allowed to discriminate.
and on top of what sally said...it's not even about that they aren't letting as much as HOW they're going about it. They are being complete COWARDS with trying to change their rules now. They should just man up and say, we won't accept homosexuals. They are hiding it because they KNOW it's WRONG. We can see right through their tactic and it's sad. Even the KKK doesn't try to hide their agenda...thats why we don't talk about them.
Sally Lu ... you speak of blacks and their rights but have you read the posts from USMC 53? Those are valid points - why don't you cry about the fact that the blacks have their own negro college fund, black coaches association, black caucas, BET, and so on. If gay spouses want to have their own spouse group - create one. Stop telling other private groups what they have to do. I don't understand why mike 3234995 calls them cowards - they don't want to nor need to hear from you panty-wastes! get a life. start your own groups if you feel that's what's important.
hmmmm... CSM - I'm pretty sure that if this was called Hetero Fort Bragg Spouses Club, and didn't receive federal funds nor used federal property, that they could probably discriminate all they want and host angry bake sales. Since that's not the case, any federally funded organization that discriminates is out of motha-f@#$ bounds.
Just so you know... public funds do not go to BET.
Sally Lu, Any public service cannot be discriminatory. But this club is just that a club. Not a public service. The 1st amendment allows for freedom of assembly. It doesn't force people to be accepted in such assemblies. Whether you like it or not it is not comparable to the civil rights movement. All those denied rights were dealing with public services. For an example if I'm driving down the road I can refuse to give rides to those that ask. Am I infringing on anyone's rights? No. Until it is written in the constitution that forces others to be part of assemblies, there is no legal standing. You can protest all this injustice you want, but justice can not infringe the rights of others.
This country is done !.
I think you've misinterpreted the concept of "Free Speech" (along with most other things). Freedom of Speech doesn't mean I have to leave the country if I disagree with you. It means I get to call you a sad little man ranting from his parents basement to disguise his disappointment over his life and postpone his inevitable suicide. Don't bother calling the suicide hotline, we're all on your side on that point...
This is where the homosexual element gets it wrong every time. This isn't the right story for you. You want rights? Equality? This is how you do it.
The next time "same sex" marriage comes up for a local or national vote, please do not use pictures or images of men / young boys holding or kisssing each other. Likewise ugly, fat, flannel wearing dykes with chain driven billfolds like theses two in the article.
Use HOT looking girls. Right hair. Right make up. Right clothes etc. When the voting public goes to the polls / booth, they will have that image in their mind. You don't want them going in there with the image that these two have. Fat, ugly, preganant. Do you see the point? Ofcourse when America wakes up to reality and see's what it's really done..well it's too late. Then you can do whatever you want.
I hope this helps.
This act by our military is wrong---they make out of control prejudicial judgementas that just because one may be gay implies that they non--effective in their role.
This is wrong on every level; however, this woman is probably better off. That sounds stupid, but think about it - why subject yourself to the glares, whispered comments, etc. Clearly this wife and her military spouse are strong people; you have to be to be openly gay & married in the military. So, live your life and let the closed minds of others fester in their hatred.
It's only a matter of time until everyone accepts all the different flavors that make up our country. Be happy that you will have made a positive contribution toward helping the bigots in our nation become enlightened. Alternatively, yell the same line at them that Demi Moore did in GI Jane. <lol>
It's odd that the US military travels the world to bring rights to people from behind a multitude of weapons but they can't accept the people that as equals.
Hey Trevor:
I think the word you are looking for is 'ironic' - and you're right!
Comment # 3.1 deleted, political derailing.
Cynisturb
OK...then YOU can be a penguin, I'll remain human...thanks. Oh ya, sorry for my opinion.
To "I'll Always Be Better Than You""-- So you have four kids? Proves that your brain isn't between your ears. I married in 1973. Yes, I lived at home before that-- helped care for my ill father and was the one who was his driver. Also before that I helped care for my niece when she was a baby. There is not a blasted thing wrong with living with parents when you are needed. Oh, I lived with my folks between the time my husband left for duty in Germany and the time I could join him. I had quit work then because I was preparing to join him-- and we had rented out our home so I couldn't live there.
Just because you think you are so blasted better than others-- and YOU ARE NOT-- does not make it right to make snotty comments. That just shows what type of person you are.
First off, how does she get on base with out an id. secound off, I believe that when your not welcome, than maybe you don't really want to be there anyway. no matter if they let you in now, you know that there will be those that feel that they are above you and will always act and think that way. Those of you that think you are about others, such rethink about that, your blood runs just as fast as the next person, and mite be that that other person made be the one that safes your life. Take this from someone that severed in Nam. no one walks on water.
Wow, you say you have 4 kids? I hope they are taught better manners then you. Seriously if you can't form a sentence without a curse word or personal attack you probably shouldn't be on an adult forum. If you want to suggest you are better then people it's probably best not to act like a troll with anger management issues.
Well said Tim. No one walks on water. When you are fighting for your life you aren't going to slap away the hand of someone who pulls you to safety just because they are gay.
Lol Trevor, too true. It is ironic that the military seemingly fights for the right of others in other countries, but are incapable of allowing the rights and equalities of those on their home turf.
Ohhh looky you! Still an angry one aren't you. Believe me, I don't worry about how you raise your children. If you can't handle speaking like an adult, go back to the playground. From the way you act, I doubt even a straight person would want to get their clothing wet to save you. Let go of the hate man, that kind of anger is a disease on society. Cheers!
I have to agree. She's better off (as is her brave, patriotic military spouse) not being part of a club full of bigoted skanks and wusses. The thing to do is to form a new military spouses' club, one that's full of intelligent, enlightened, patriotic people that accepts everyone, just as intelligent, enlightened, patriotic people do. The new club can do things that create a more supportive atmosphere for our courageous military men and women, and it can have an enjoyable time having everyone poke fun of the losers in the old club who will end up being ostracized and marginalized on the base.
Can these beautiful women not just start their own club for LGBT service members and their spouses... I fail to see why one's freedoms must by some need be imposed over another groups. As a past military wife, (now retired) I found that depending on what base or unit we were assigned with, I might fit well with or not at all to that area wives club. Never did that stop me from forming a support group with like minded women and get busy with The Purpose ie... supporting the service member and families around deployment, returns ect... When we force another what are we doing to their rights and freedoms.
mama of 9...I am certain this is a story because the "club" changed their bylaws after she was rejected to have rationale for rejecting her. That is wrong on quite a few levels and now has opened the group of women up to ridicule...rightfully so. I for one am glad they choose to "tell the world" as it were. Maybe backwards thinking such as this will cease to exist someday.
To I'll always be better than you...seriously, go back to school or hire a tutor for your kids so they end up smarter than you. Just from your writings I feel sorry for them because I know what being them is like. While my parents have never been as bad as you with your arrogance and ignorance, they pronounced words wrong and did other things that, had I copied them as most kids do with their parents, I would have been seen as dumber for it. Help them be better people or just shut up so they do not imitate you.
Jerry:
Spot on! I really like your idea. It's just sad that so many are so uptight that they cannot accept anything that is outside their definition of "normal".
I just don't see the point in all the hatred of others whose lives are "different" from your own. Those type of people (haters) apparently do not: travel the globe (members of the military do, whether or not they want to), see people who look different than they do or experience cultures and traditions that are "different" than those we experience with our own family and friends.
I was taught that 'variety is the spice of life', so why not experience different things? While I do not plan to change my personal sexual preference, that does not mean I cannot interact with those from the LGBT community. Why not? You might actually learn something; what a concept!
I'll Always be Better Then You banned, personal attacks.
The army is wrong.
I agree with mama of 9 an Jerry that this woman would probably be better off finding another group of like minded individuals to start their own spouse's group, but I think that this does not help the problem. The problem is that the LGBT community in the military does not need to be rejected from existing groups such as the Fort Bragg group. In order for the repeal of DADT to serve its true purpose, these families must be accepted into military life as it is - not to form their own faction. In fact, I'm sure there are some members of this Fort Bragg group that are ashamed of the rejection of her application and are ashamed of the ammendments to the group's constitution to keep her out. I hope that there is not a small number of organizing members imposing their own personal beliefs onto this entire organization - that just causes unwanted attention and embarrassment to all.
To "I'll Always be Better Then You":
Your choice of screen name says a lot about you - and none of it is positive. Why be so inflammatory when it is SO unnecessary? I guess I was lucky growing up - my parents taught me to live and let live; treat others as you would like them to treat you, that variety is the spice of life and to put family & friends first - everyone else second. It's rather sad that even though you did not have the same upbringing, as an adult, you cannot figure these things out for yourself.
Life is a series of choices, personal conduct being the most important choice. I guess you'd be much happier in life if you let go of all your hatred of things that are different than you. Who knows, you might learn something new.
In the meantime, please stop spewing your hatred; it serves no purpose. Members of the LGBT community have heard it all before; straight people are just tired of hearing it and want you to quit acting like a bully and leave LGBT people alone. Your attitude is like being a racist - it is pointless and only serves to put your ignorance on full display for others to see. Have some pride - at least try and hide your crazy from everyone else.
I'm currently in the military,and I think it needs to be said: Homosexuality is not accepted in the military; it's generally only tolerated. About the only thing I have seen is the occasional questionable female "friend", with an unmarried female soldier, at a Christmas party. Other than that, no one that I know of has come assertively and admitted to being gay. About the only thing the repeal changed is that a soldier can be asked if they are gay. Ok, so they don't get fired for being gay, that doesn't make them a better soldier, help them pass a PT Test, or do better at marksmanship. Basically, the only soldiers the repeal benefited were high ranking officers and Nco's. The full title of the policy wasn't even revealed to the general public.( "Don't ask, don't tell, don't harass, don't pursue.") The repeal happened during a "lame duck" session in congress.
I think it would be beneficial if the gay community realized that no amount of brainwashing is going to change the truth or science. You can't change your sex or the sex you were intended for. Homosexuality is a pipedream; there's no third sex. To date, any homosexual study that I've seen has been written in the language of ambiguity. If you read them carefully, you will note the words might, could, could possibly be, but there is no definite scientific conclusion. Gays ain't blacks; I've never seen a gay person denied the right to vote, made to sit in the back of the bus, or made to drink in separate drinking fountains. The only time it becomes an issue is when they start acting up over disagreements over homosexuality.
I don't care how many bonobos, dolphins, and penguins you come up with, they might be the oddballs of their communities as well. It's still a stretch to say that animals display homosexuality for exactly the same reasons as humans do. Bonobos will have sex with each other to say hello and Dolphins will try to screw just about anything that moves: to include humans. Homosexuality is an ideology, not biology. There's no gay gene, science has never found one or concluded on a sole biological cause for homosexuality. That's before we even get into the possibility of confirmation bias from a scientist desperate for affirmation of their sexual desires. 1500 species out of 50 million isn't even a percent, so it's a leap to say that the behavioral traits of a minute percentage, of a certain population, is natural for the entire animal kingdom. Certain species also eat their young, but that doesn't make it natural for the entire animal population.
That being said, is Mack retired? She's looking a little on the heavy side to be an officer. Don't officers still have to pass PT, along with height and weight?
If this was an enlisted soldier, they'd be kicked out.
Jaiszinius, DADT was repealed. No enlisted person would be kicked out for this. DOMA will be declared unconstitutional and repealed in June.
The real conflict is not with the club or its bylaws and to turn it into one is to simply demonize an organization with no control over who is and is not a military spouse. The organization has to abide by the definition of spouse as defined by the federal government and military. The requirement is not for a military ID card, it is for being a spouse as defined by the federal government and the military, the proof of which is the essential document that proves it, a military (dependent) id card that states she is a spouse and which, more importantly, proves she has a right to be on the facility as the spouse of serving military. To accept any other arrangement creates a situation that is a nearly open door to fraud, abuse, security issues and things terrorists could exploit to gain access to a military installation. Until the US Congress repeals the Defense of Marriage Act, female same-sex spouses of military members are not going to be able to join organizations such as this one at Ft Bragg. It may be that some other iron-clad definition will eventually be worked out by attorneys, post security, the Provost Marshal (who has to maintain order on the facility) and the facility commander but it's wholly unrealistic to think that that could happen before some time next year. What do people think, this one person trying to join a club trumps all other pressing issues that the military already works significant overtime to manage???
jim-4120631
Thank you very much for a resonable and very much on point explanation. The most sensible comment on here. I was wondering how she was getting on base because it is next to impossible to do anthing at all on base without an ID Card.
apache go @!$%# your self your parents must be @!$%#ing rednecks like your self so go @!$%# your self or kill your self redneck son of a bitch.
Sally go @!$%# your self to bitch ill delete my account people attack me and your nasty ass dont do @!$%# but when i write back you @!$%#ing ban me @!$%# you and your ugly looking mutts.
....ummm, so how many black people line up to join a kkk rally, and how many white guys line up to attend Black Panther meetings. NOT many. I wont be attending any gay pride rally's either, just not my cup O' tea,
..or something.
I think she should be allowed entry, but I also think there are MANY lesbians who need to be taken to court for sexual harassment. It has been my experience that they think nothing of staring at another woman's breasts or other body part, rubbing themselves against us in public and otherwise doing things that we, as a society, would never allow a man to do. I think, if the want the same rights, then they should have the same responsibilities as well and begin to behave themselves!
it's so refreshing to see that the military is strarting to drop the hammer on these freaking homosexuals. who cares how much they love their country or not. all homosexuals should be forced to move to canada anyhow where there are no morals. there shouldn't be any homosexuals in our military period. i can't wait for the day these undesirables are booted to the curb anyhow and given dis honorable discharges, & no vet benefits. they don't deserve them anyhow. they should be reserved for the real fighting men & women of this country who don't have to worry about being homosexuals , & that raise real families having babies the way god meant for women to have them. this country is messed up bad enough without allowing homosexuals the freedom to serve in the military to undermine the real men & women that serve.
I am a retired Military Man, and we {everyone I knew), did not want the "Gays" around. We have got to support teh Lord here. the so called Gays will have to stand in front of the Lord and try to "jusify" what they are doing here.
I think that the military will come around on this issue and not by choice. Unfortunately it may take a bit of time.
Topper316, Yeah the Lord also tolerated stoning, concubines (quite a few whores, too) and various plagues. So... when was the last time you stoned someone? Cursed them with plagues?
I am so sick of hearing yahoos like you use the Lord's name in vain. That's right... in vain. You're too cowardly to just stand up and say "I'm a small minded twit and won't tolerate anybody who is unlike me," so you blame it on the Lord. Ohhhhh puleeezze. You're just a small-minded racist, sexist idiot who prefers to remain 'innocent' and blame the Bible and the Lord. My Lord is a forgiving God who loves all no matter what. Unfortunately, He will Love you too, but I DON'T HAVE TO.
No, I'm afraid you won't.
And then he fled, for he art a cowardly ranter.
I'm seeing that some people are getting this confused. An Officer's Spouses Club (like the NCO Spouses Club) is not military, but it's not civilian either. They still have to conform to military policy regarding who is a spouse. As for the DADT policy - it's basically that they have to tolerate gays in the military. They aren't forced to accept them - they just can't harass anyone, or discriminate against someone based on their sexual preference. To tell you the truth, I'd rather have someone openly gay and who is more openminded than someone whose head is firmly entrenched in the 19th century and who is sexually harassing persons of the opposite sex. It doesn't matter to the guy in combat whether the person next to him is gay or straight or whatever, as long as he or she is an equal helper in keeping the unit protected from the enemy. Despite DADT, there have been LGBT in the military - just not openly serving.
If it's discovered that the president of the Ft Bragg Officer's Spouse Club is using the position to keep LGBT spouses out of the club and, consequently, punish the Lt and her wife for their sexuality, she should be removed from that office. Yes, you shouldn't have to be assiciated with someone you don't approve of, in this instance, it should be noted that the OWCs are usually support systems and fund raisers for military welfare projects. It's like the Auxillary in Fire Departments, and there have been some officers who have been held back from promotions because their wives have not participated in the OWC. It's stupid to have a separate one, as has been suggested, to achieve the same thing, just because of the prejudices of a few.
Daddyisshot2: The military is not "dropping the hammer" on anyone. This is a close minded individual who is imposing HER will on the entire club by refusing to admit someone who is a legitimate spouse. Who know what else she's doing in the club to violate others rights? Homosexuals have the same rights as you do as American citizens and if anyone should be kicked to the curb and sent in exile to Canada, it's you people who refuse to give these people their due rights. They don't have any choice over who they love, and for the most part are more moral than the majority of heterosexuals. They are certainly more openminded that SOME heterosexuals. If they serve, they are entitled to their benefits, the same as you would be. I think you should understand that homosexuals you are refering to have died to save their country, and to save their fellow soldiers, many of whom were known to be homosexual, but not turned in because they knew that under DADT, they would be putting a good soldier out. Additionally, these people ARE REAL men and women - I certainly don't see anyone else FIGHTING to be able to die for their country, do you? One of the best armies in Grecian times was the Sacred Band of Thebes, which was a band of 150 pairs homosexual soldiers who fought along side their partners. They fought more bravely than most of the other Grecian soldiers - and that's a feat in itself. But during one battle, they fought to the death of the last of the 300 men, and held off an army 10 times it's size.
-----PLEASE----- SEE MY POST AT '26.2' that was --MEANT-- TO BE -PLACED- --HERE-- [this FACEBOOK is a "Overflow" for "FIGHTGAYMARRIAGE... WINLEADERSHIPNOWAND-Forever"] -JOHN WILKINSON-
Uh, dude, don't register multiple accounts.
Oh but there is NOW!! I really can't stand bigots.
The military should hold on to its high standards as long as possible. There is little room in our armed forces for political correctness.
I think you're confusing political correctness and basic human equality. But, I guess, whatever allows your continued bigotry.
What "high standards"?
I served for six years, and all I saw were regular people wearing uniforms. There was just as much hate, bigotry, stupidity and discrimination in the military as there was outside of it.
Welcome to the real world.
janie, I think you're confusing basic human equality with sexual deviants.
Common Man,
are you referring to the thousands upon thousands of HETEROSEXUALS who enjoy anal sex regularly ?
those sexual deviants ?
or are you just conveniently forgetting about them ? maybe we should discriminate against them as well since they are sexual deviants too, right ?
Like Negros and women serving? The military used to keep negro blood seperate from white blood. Not to mention the Tuskegee experiment. Not military but.....
Deviating from what standard? I bet there are some swingers in that spouse club. I bet there are some bondage fans. Maybe some couples who have a "girlfriend" at home. Who are we do judge what is deviant and what is not? Are you basing this on a book that's thousands of years and edits old? "Christianity" and what they teach in the modern church looks nothing like the sex in the good book. Read it.
Common Man (irony at its best I might add)...Deviants? Seriously?
Folks, this couple has a member in our Armed Forces. MEANING...she puts herself on the line for YOUR right to be bigoted. And moronic. That doesn't mean you should abuse the privilege.
This spouse deserves no more NOR NO LESS than any other spouse.
Sounds like the founder of this group needs to go "re-find" herself.
Deviating from what standard? I bet there are some swingers in that spouse club. I bet there are some bondage fans. Maybe some couples who have a "girlfriend" at home. Who are we do judge what is deviant and what is not? Are you basing this on a book that's thousands of years and edits old? "Christianity" and what they teach in the modern church looks nothing like the sexuality in the good book. Read it.
Common man you're confusing sexual deviants with decent human beings.
I can play this game too.
Well done! I love poignant sarcasm!
Here's why anti-gay people will NEVER win these arguments. Because when confronted with an objective fact, they respond with a subjective insult.
Until being a "deviant" is no longer subjective, that argument will NEVER work.
I can't help but picture this Mary King, as looking and acting like the antagonist in The Help.
Here is the part I don't get about deviant,
Heterosexual sex besides intercourse involves at times,
Fellatio
Cunnilingus
Anal sex
Then why is it not deviant for a heterosexual couple to partake in such activities but is deviant when Homosexuals partake. The above three activities do not procreate.
As a straight male, my sex life would be a whole less exciting without some occasional deviancy. :)
These prudes are just upset nobody will sleep with them. Especially in any interesting ways.
Face it - Sarah's an angry lesbian.
Homie,
What you fantasize about is none of my business. Knock yourself out, buddy.
The deviance is in the ATTRACTION to a person of the OPPOSITE sex.
There is no law against oral or anal sex, but that sure as he!! doesn't mean that the government should ENDORSE it.
If the government endorses ONE sexual perversion, it would have to endorse them ALL.
The government incentivizes homosexuality? How so? Tax credits for being gay? Do they pass out trophies or something?
Maybe for you. I think deviance is typing a post completely in "bold", in order to try to add credence to it.
That's why "deviance" is subjective.
Homie,
Sarah is not a lesbian, but is a strong proponent of people's rights.
She will be an lawyer, but I don't hold that against her. All the arguments against gays were once used against blacks by everyone including some "well meaning" christians and in time this too will run its coarse.
This whole idea is stupid. Next we won't allow their sons to play Little League Baseball because the parents are gay and it will ruin the institution of the Great American pass time!!
Sarah a Lesbian?
I was just hoping she was single thats all.
Jonseing for a taste of that r u roc?
I didn't say INCENTIVIZE. I said ENDORSE. You have totally distorted what I said.
That's not surprising. I've read enough of your posts to realize how dishonestly you argue any point that you TRY to make.
And I'm sorry, but what YOU believe has no bearing on the medically accepted definition of 'deviance', which is a deviation from the NORM.
The government does ENDORSE and INCENTIVIZE heterosexual marriage for the protection and well-being of potential progeny.
Ewww. And you consider homosexuals the pervs? I've never had a lesbian get on here and make gross, sexual comments to me. That seems to be in the sole ownership of straight men.
Foolish,
So how does the government "endorse" it?
I was unaware that progeny and/or procreation were a requirement of marriage. Why do they let infertile people get married then? Why do they allow for birth outside of wedlock?
Well considering the medical community does not view homosexuality as a MEDICAL issue, the medical definition of deviance is irrelevant.
Sarah,
My comment by no means was meant to be gross or sexual. Just wanted to let you know.
Foolishness (how appropriate)
You must also not be aware of the meaning of norm. There are well over 1500 species in the natural world that have exhibited homosexual behavior. Things that happen in nature without human intervention are "natural" and things that are "natural" are the "norm" and things that are the "norm" that do no infringe on others right to happiness and life should not be illegal. You might as well say having hazel eyes is illegal
Roc,
I didn't take it that way. No worries. :)
even your emoticon smile is prettier than the average emoticon haha
kickin some serious internet game!!! hahaha
"Homosexuality", as originally defined, is a mythological being that spends their entire life exclusively attracted to like gendered subjects. In order for a species to exhibit signs of "homosexuality" they will have to be observed over their respective lifetime being exclusively sexually attracted to like gendered subjects - this has never been observed in the animal kingdom.
Simply having a limp wrist and an eye for color is not enough to classify a species as having exhibited "homosexual" behavior.
I once saw a dog dry hump a slipper; does that make him a Slipperosexual?
Yes. in fact animals CAN be exclusively homosexual. Animal species aren't observed for just like..a week. They are observed for month after month after month in order to learn everything about them. That's how these things work. There are homosexuals in tons of species and to say it's deviant is incredibly absurd.
and randy...your lesson for the day
it shows that pairs of same sex animals will stay together for years..even though some will become impregnated to continue their species...they still choose to copulate with the same sex out of preference. Nice try though.
They do not copulate with one another; quit making things up. If you are OK with being a pervert then be a pervert; don't stand there demanding it be called that which it is incapable of ever being just so you can feel better about the choices you make in this life.
The Emperor has no clothes!
RandyEK
Sorry I have to say you are entirely incorrect. Did you just make that up or is it a convenient lie to somehow make a point? Exclusive homosexuality has been observed in sheep, Chimpanzees (I forget which subspecies) and my favorite the Meerkat and in numerous other species.
Animal Homosexuality: A Biosocial Perspective By Aldo Poiani, A. F. Dixson, Aldo Poiani, A. F. Dixson, p. 179, 2010, Cambridge University Press
Well thanks for killing the fantasy... now I need something new for the spank bank.
There is a species of lizard in the Southwest desert called the whiptail lizad.
Centuries ago when the area was a fertile grassland the species was comprised of male and female members. Then climate changed, it turned into a desert, and as a result of warmer temperatures the eggs started to hatch out all females (ask any herpetologist--the temperature of an egg decides the gender of the animal inside it.)
Today the species survives and thrives composed entirely of females. There are no more males.
Hey Randy, running away from the other article in which we proved you were wrong on this?
"There is no law against oral or anal sex,"
Have you not heard of sodomy laws? Sodomy is still illegal in some states and is punishable under the UCMJ.
"That's why "deviance" is subjective."
No, it's OBjective, not SUBjective. Just like morality. We may agree on some things that are deviant or moral, but we may disagree on some things as well. Things that are demonstrably true are not objective, but are subjective. But, just because you call something subjective, it doesn't mean it actually is.
I have noticed RandyEK does not reply when he tries to use Science back up his prejudices and is proven wrong
He needs to up date his text book a little I think.
"Sarah is not a lesbian, but is a strong proponent of people's rights."
Nope! She's a lesbian. Plain and simple. She's probably black, too. I'm guessing she's also hispanic, asian, Muslim, Jewish, an atheist, transgendered, and elderly. She must be if she defends those people, too. Right?
Actually you're completely wrong. Sodomy is not punishable in any state following Lawrence v Texas, nor is it punishable under the UCMJ if it is consensual.
Both are entirely subjective. They are dependent on the speaker's point of view. Neither are universal.
"Exclusive homosexuality has been observed in sheep, Chimpanzees (I forget which subspecies) and my favorite the Meerkat and in numerous other species."
Not chimpanzees. Bonobos. And bonobos aren't homosexual. They are bisexual.
Seriously, screw Bubblegum.
Damn, Bubblegum.
yes there are anti sodomy laws on the books in most states. Are they or can they be enforced? I hope not!!!
Cynisturb,
Don't forget, I'm also a Planned Parenthood doctor. :)
They can't be. The SCOTUS cases of Griswold v. CT and Lawrence v. Texas, over rule them. They may still be technically on the books, but they're no longer "good law". They're basically moot.
"Both are entirely subjective. They are dependent on the speaker's point of view. Neither are universal."
If it is universal, it is subjective. If it is subject to a rule, it is subjective.
Heterosexualy speaking ofcourse!!! I make no plans.... with no mans!!!!!
There have been many posts referring to the "homosexual lifestyle". What, exactly, constitutes a homosexual "lifestyle"? All of the gay people I know have a lifestyle that mirrors the lifestyle of every one else I know. The actual act of sex is not a lifestyle but a very small portion of a normal life. Unless a person is sexually involved for over 6 hours a day, watching television is a much bigger influence on lifestyle than who a person enjoys sex with or how.
People who are comfortable with their own sexuality concern me much less that those who obsess about someone elses.
Regardless of all the issues involved it appears the LTC is not within height weight standards. It was just reported to the military press the Army was discharging members at an alarming rate (officer and enlisted) for being even modestly overweight. Her lesbianism does not give her immunity from usual personnel issues.
If she is out of standards let her go and of course the spouse with her.
To me it's a large sparkly light ommitting ball rotating from the ceiling. Weirdo lighting. Men dancing on platforms wearing nothing but metalflake jock straps and articles of leather. Others dressed like the village people. Blasting in the background is this Techno beat BOOM! BOOM! BOOM! etc. Meanwhile i can't get into the toilet because some guy's getting a blow job or getting rammed up the ass. Now maybe i've watched too much T.V. Maybe it's because i play around 150 shows a year or i spend way too much time on MSNBC. Hell maybe it's my fantasy! but that's what i think about when i hear the term"Homosexual Lifestyle"
"There is no law against oral or anal sex, but that sure as he!! doesn't mean that the government should ENDORSE it. If the government endorses ONE sexual perversion, it would have to endorse them ALL."
I get where you're coming from, kinda like Slick Willie using Monica's vag to wet his cigars in the oval office? LMFAO!!!!!!
"nor is it punishable under the UCMJ if it is consensual."
You are correct. I didn't realize it was repealed in the same bill as DADT until I just looked it up. Thanks for the correction. However, you should have pointed that out like you did with the Texas example. I don't like being wrong. I prefer to believe things that are ACTUALLY true as opposed to believing to be true what I prefer the truth was. When I am wrong, I would prefer somebody not just point out that I'm wrong, but prove it. It was easy to look up, so it wasn't a big deal in this case.
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You don't appear to understand what any of those terms mean.
Copulate: to engage in sexual intercourse
Members of the same sex are incapable of copulating with one another because the lack they necessary equipment to do so.
If you folks have a problem with the actual meaning and intent of language then you should refrain from leaning on it in support of your ridiculous assertions.
Hint: The rectum is not a sex organ - nor is the tongue for that matter.
..does this mean we are devolving to monkey's and lizards....uhhhhh.
This same sex couple is having a baby, not having "their" baby. "Their" implies a spermatozoan fertilizing an ovum. Physiologically, this cannot happen between two women. So, thru artificial insemination or implantation, a fetus is growing inside her. They are having a baby, but it is not "their" baby.
Steve,
Why do you care? Why feel the need to point that out? Are you saying that a baby who's adopted isn't that couple's "baby" either? Does it make the baby any less "theirs"?
What Steve is saying Sarah is that children are not commodities.
Being a Planned Parenthood butcher I can see why you would seek to rationalize dehumanizing humans in order to live with yourself for what you have chosen to do to humanity for the sake of a paycheck, but you need to understand that those who do not profit, as you do, from your debauchery will be less inclined to agree with your self rationalization.;
Just saying!
RandyEK
What Steve is saying Sarah is that children are not commodities.
Being a Planned Parenthood butcher I can see why you would seek to rationalize dehumanizing humans in order to live with yourself for what you have chosen to do to humanity for the sake of a paycheck, but you need to understand that those who do not profit, as you do, from your debauchery will be less inclined to agree with your self rationalization.;
Just saying! = one big rant.
Planned Parenthood does much more than offer abortion. NO one who works there is a butcher.
Did he really, honestly believe I'm a Planned Parenthood doctor???
Holy @!$%#. Now that's funny.
Most certainly do not believe you were a planned parenthood doctor; you have demonstrated a complete lack of intellect for that type of work. If anything you would be one of those pimps at the front desk encouraging the most vulnerable among us to ignore their conscience.
BTW: Planned Parenthood is this nations number one abortion provider; and their number one source of income is murder of the unborn.
However, you apparently are not most...
Oh Randy, you've out done yourself this time. Just when I thought you couldn't embarrass yourself any more.
Now excuse me, I have to go encourage young people to sell their souls, or whatever it is you think I do.
I think you are a person that enjoys debauchery; an individual who views Biblical sin as something to be proud of.
In short; a Sociopath.
http://www.mcafee.cc/Bin/sb.html
Debauchery and sin... Yes, please! In fact, I'm going to go "debauch" and "sin" quite a bit tonight. You FINALLY got something right. Congrats.
Bring on the hell fire! Mama wants a new pair of shoes!
If one can "debauch" is it also possible to "rebauch"? And what exactly is a bauch in the first place?
Services provided by Planned Parenthood that do not involve abortion.
Abortion makes up about 3% of all services supplied by Planned Parenthood.
Debauchery: unrestrained self-indulgent immoral behavior, or an instance of this
Synonyms:
Wickedness, Sin, Depravity, Corruption, Dissolution, Dishonesty, Dissipation, Decadence, Iniquity
Little wonder you folks have found yourselves completely dependent upon the bastardization of language in support of your depravity.
Language, as originally defined, does not paint a pretty picture of your proclivity.
Murder of the unborn is the cash cow of 'Planned Parenthood'; everything else is window dressing.
According to Federal government audits, PP's main source of income is from the governement, both state and federal. Private donations come next. The comes health services, and then other, which would be abortion services.
Wickedness - Check
Sin - Check
Depravity - Check
Corruption - Check
Dissolution - Check
Dishonesty - "Randy, you're not judgmental at all"... Okay, now Check
Dissipation - Check
Decadence - Check
Iniquity - Check
Mission accomplished. What a great night.
I did not pass judgment upon you; God did.
I'm just examining the fruit!
"When you belong to me you will hate what I hate."
Ah yes, you're just his spokes person. How does one get that job? What a load of BS. Is that how you get around taking responsibility for all the @!$%#ty things you do? I need to try that. "I wasn't speeding officer, God was." "I wasn't cursing mom, God was." "I didn't just throw a hairbrush at your head, God did".
Let me give you a little lesson. NOT passing judgment would be NOT making judgmental statements, keeping your unsolicited opinions on what you think is sin and who you think is committing it to yourself, living your life how you think is right, and waiting for others to get in front of God so HE/SHE could make those statements.
If your God is that powerful, he doesn't need your help. How @!$%#ing arrogant.
Acknowledging self evident truths is only offensive to Emperors with no clothes. If you do not want people to point out the errors of your ways then do not go out in public dressed like that.
Just saying!
Acknowledging that nobody gives a rat's ass what your "self evident truths" are is the first step to learning how to mind your own damn business. Trust me, you have enough of your own to focus on.
Just saying!
Spoken like a true sociopath
http://www.mcafee.cc/Bin/sb.html
And your fruit is rancid!
Well, paint me Ted and call me Bundy. Just keep judging away, buddy. Doesn't it suck to know your judgments don't mean jack @!$%#? But they are seriously fun to provoke out of you.
Just saying!
Let's hear another one...
You shine the light on the Devil and the Devil screams.
Here ends the lesson.
Well, really, I'm not that cool. The devil??? I could only wish. I'm more of a mere apprentice.
Yes, you've taught us all so much. Seriously, you make the case for gay rights better than I ever could.
Hey Randy, did you already forget where I proved that sexual intercourse includes anal and oral?
Then again, you're always ignoring what you don't like to hear, so I suppose it shouldn't be surprising.
Hey allswell, did you already forget the part about the anus not being a sex organ?
The anus and mouth are sex organs in the same way the hand, a vibrator, a dildo, and a blow-up doll are.
You should have spent a little more time in Health class listening and a little less time fingering yourself.
Hey allswell, is it true they use to call you Scratch-n-sniff back in school?
Its rather funny how childish you become when you can't actually debate the point I made.
Do you see a requirement for sex organs in the definition of sexual intercourse, kid? No? I thought not.
Seriously, child, you're out of your league and in violation of the CoH. That you can't seem to hold a debate without violating the agreements you made with Newsvine when you signed up is quite damning on your capacity for human reasoning.
How do you not consider sexual organs as a requirement...?
You are the one who equated the anus and mouth with sex; to which I correctly pointed out that the anus and mouth are no more sex organs than are hands, dildos, blow-up dolls, etc...
The muscles of the rectum are designed to push things out. When you push things into an orifice that is designed by nature to push things out you are slowly killing the subject in question with each application.
By the laws of nature any act contrary to healthy living is immoral.
What you are proposing is reminiscent of a scene from the movie 'Saturn 3' where the robot became infatuated with Farah, killed a male scientist, wrapped its structure in its victims skin, and declared itself to be a man.
Go sell crazy somewhere else!
In their quest for equality do Blacks demand they be called White; do women demand they be called men?
Once again, do you see sexual organs required as part of the definition of sexual intercourse?
Strange then that homosexuality in 1500+ species appears to cause zero health concerns and in some (primates especially) is embraced.
You do realize the idiocy of your statement, don't you? The equivalent would be: do homosexuals demand to be called heterosexuals.
And nobody's demanding that. Seriously, you need get your head checked.
Homosexuality, as originally (1860's Germany) defined, is a hypothetical subject that spends its entire life exclusiveley attracted to same gender subjects. Not only is there no examples of this construct in the animal kingdom there has been no documented instance in all of human history.
You are attempting to gain credibility through the bastardization of language.
The Emperor has no clothes!
Actually I already proved you wrong on this in another article in which you tried to spout off the same nonsense. Several species form mated same-sex pairs for life, which has been observed.
You're falling behind again.
No bastardization necessary. Do you not notice how your quote says "commonly defined"? Does it not occur to you that the specification of that line means its not the only definition?
I'm afraid the only one running around showing their singularity is you.
You have proved nothing; you listed an article that was full of "may" and "might" sans a single "does" or "will."
The first use of the word "Gay" as a noun, in reference to sexual depravity, was in the mid 1970's and was done so primarily in reference to men masturbating against men in an effort to paint an appearance of a link to nature; you now use the word "Gay" as a noun in reference to all perverts.
The root of the word marriage is the joining of opposites; you have bastardized it to mean the joining of everything. The root of the made up word "Homosexual" is in reference to exclusivity in sexuality; you now use it in reference to anything that has ever taken part in same gender masturbation.
As an engineer I know that in order to marry two parts one part MUST have a male connector and the other part MUST have a female connector; if you would like to connect two parts with similar surfaces you must BOND said parts by their predefined faying surfaces, but we know this bond is incapable of ever becoming a marriage - the joining of opposites.
You are completely dependent upon the bastardization of language in defense of your demands for special rights. If you truly believed it were justifiable you would not be working this hard to have it declared to be that which it was incapable of being by the laws of nature and natures God.
And yet you are unable to provide a single credible defense except to claim "bastardization".
Do you even know what the evolution of language is? Its a rather beautiful, natural thing.
Also, marriage comes from the Latin word "maritus", taken from the Indo-European root word "mari"...which simply means "young woman". The root word "maris" in turn means "young man".
Rather funny, in Hebrew the word for "marry" is linked to the word for "moron".
Things do not stop being what they are over time.
Evolution is a theory.
Marriage:
http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=marriage
Biology is an authentic science that stands in opposition to your ridiculous assertions. I could provide you with a dozen points of facts, but you will still dismiss them as inconsequential because they will not help you satisfy your wants.
The Christian Bible notes murder to be a Sin once and you have no problem accepting it as such; yet the Christian Bible notes same gender intercourse to be a sin over a half-dozen times and you refuse to accept it.
You are looking for excuses; not reasons.
Evolution is only a theory in biology. Yet again you prove you are ignorant of the reality of language.
You do realize that your own source (yet again) destroys your contention? It says "also". In addition, the very etymology of every stage only breaks down into a union that, as I have shown, does not specify that it is a man and woman in every marriage, since either "mari" or "maris" can be presumed at any given time.
Biology doesn't apply, cause marriage doesn't serve a biological purpose. Mating does, and as I have continuously demonstrated to you (which you continue to ignore), there are many species which form same-sex mated pairs.
First, I don't accept murder as a sin; I don't believe in sin, I'm Agnostic. However, I do take the humanist belief that murder is the violation of another person's right to life. Funny how the concept of murder being wrong predates both Christianity and Judaism.
Second, the Bible never calls homosexuality a sin; you're flat out lying here. Feel free to quote a single passage that calls it, directly, a sin. I know exactly what verses you'll post--that still won't call it a sin--and exactly how every single one of them is wrong when you use the original language.
You aren't even looking.
RandyEK, you are suspended for a week for violating rule # 1 of the Code of Honor.
Scratch that, RandyEK is banned. Re-reg of Randy K.
Why is it that people such as him seem the most likely to re-reg after being banned?
Are they really so obsessed with the subject matter?
janierock (at '5.1'); Phoenyx13 their "TYPE" is -JUNK- Only. Robert Duckworth ---????--- what are you getting at? Sarah-3043284 -seem to me, here is someone who has little or no patience. vwterry -GUYS REASONING "CORRUPTED" THERE! ["YOU ARE 'GONNA SEE' THAT -OFTEN- ( :"]/ foolishness abounds 'LIKE - LIKE - LIKE - LIKE' & JGoodeNJ -THANK YOU FOR THAT LIST- I'm gonna write it. GOT TO KEEP TRACK OF WHO HAS BEEN DOING GOOD WORKS -v- whom we have on "Corruption". AND: I have a -comprehensive Post- at '26.2'. I FIGHT -Against- the -advance- of "Corruption" and -Gay Marriage- (AND: "Gay's in the Military") -IS- as "Corrupt as it can get" /I mean, it's on that Road to Abandon; "anachy".
Multi-accounter reported.
Well at least she is a woman wait until a male tries to get into the spouses club.
Read the article. Male spouses have been accepted in the past. Just not GAY male spouses.
Seriously, Why would You want to be Part of an Organization that APPARENTLY DOES NOT WANT YOU??? Even if they CHANGE their mind, I would NOT want to be Part of it...Just seems FUNNY to me she goes to NBC, one of the MOST LIBERAL and Uninformed News Broadcasters that ONLY TELL HALF-TRUTHS...Do You HEAR IT?????????? I Hear Al Sharpton coming down the Hall Now singing We Shall Overcome...
Bmoron-
"...Why would You want to be Part of an Organization that APPARENTLY DOES NOT WANT YOU???"
There were plenty of organizations that wanted nothing to do with black people a while back. Shouldn't they have tried to change the bigotted nature of those organizations? Or, do you think they should have just shut their mouths and stayed put were they belong?
half truths? what exactly did she lie about bmoremom?
@TrughComeHere; Well let see the word Sex is bad the connentations are basd for Men all over the usa, just the mention of that word put us in a frenzy, wether it about a crime of sex or marriage of Sex, but it reflect what Men do and like, but I am courious, she said that she was expecting a child, was this other woman a Man in the past? Did she go to the bank and use a Man sperm, or was this an emaculate conception? I mean if you don't want to be with a man then why use his stuff, and to flaunt that you don't like Men or can't get a man because there is something wrong with you, then this club can do what they want. The witness comes to you door every sunday, but you don't open the door either, a blk man does not go to a klan rally and sit and watch the rally and expect them to let him just sit there.
Bmoremom
I suppose you think Fox news really is fair and balanced!
BMore, I take it from your monniker and your stance on gay people you're a female. What if females had never gone where they weren't wanted? We wouldn't have the right to vote, or get a credit card or bank loan with out a hubby or daddy to sign for it, recieve equal pay, wear pants, have short hair, drive, comment on politics on newsvine, and a hundred other things I could list. Do you get it yet? Tax returns don't ask for your sexual preference so I asume singles are taxed soley on their income and deductions and not their sexual preference. If gay people can't have the same rights they shouldn't have to pay the same taxes. Our government is secular so relgion should have no bearing on US laws. Espwcially when it comes to equal rights.
The half truths were when MSNBC news, kept reporting that Obama was winning in the polls and that Romney was a two-faced liar. They also reported that Obama was winning more electoral votes then Romney, and had won the elections by a huge butt whipping margin.
They should be ashamed of themselves. I suggest all these bigots read the constitution, thoroughly. You know, the one you are SWORN to defend, to the death.
Where in that document does it say you can pick and choose who is covered by it?
While I agree with you that the Spouses' Club should be ashamed, I don't think the spouses take the oath to protect and defend the Constitution.
Hopefully, the Supreme Court will recognize that there is no discrimination in the laws that hold that marriage is the union of a man and a woman.
I have NEVER heard of a case in which a homosexual man or woman was prevented from marrying a person of the OPPOSITE gender. That is what SHOULD be the standard for any determination of discrimination as that is the basis of these laws.
foolishness, I'm betting your head is going to explode when the Supreme Court strikes down DOMA as unconstitutional.
Fixed that for ya.
NBC's daily HOMOSEXUAL AGENDA article...BIG DEAL...this is headine news?...LOL
EVERYDAY with NBC a HOMOSEXUAL article ...why don't you just cram this down everyone's throat some more ...maybe you should just have your writers focus only on HOMOSEXUAL news since basically that is what NBC does.
Yep. The Homosexual agenda. NBC recognizes that everyone's equal. What a great day it is in America.
The news is the news. They dont pick the stories, they happen, and the news reports it.
The news is not going to leave some stories out, just because they cover a subject you dont like.
Which you choose to read with relish. If it bothers you so much, either don't read them or don't come here.
What kind of an idiot can't figure that out? A repressed homosexual idiot, probably.
Well write your congressman to demand that gay's get equal rights if you don't like hearing about this. Because until they are afforded the same rights as straight people for being born different, you're going to keep on hearing about this!
I for one agree that she, being denied membership or whatever you would like to call it, is insane, but saying that the news doesn't pick the stories is not exactly sane either. How else can you explain the fact that there are stories that show up here, but not on other news sites and vice versa? There are stories that they will all report on, but usually the inner meanings are also deviated between sites. Just want to point out that any and all news sources are biased in both the stories they pick to highlight and how they are written. It sucks, but it's true and it's something to keep in mind as you inform yourself. I don't mean to offend as reading any news source is better than none, but biases exist and in my opinion we should try to keep them in mind.
what is this elusive "homosexual agenda" ??? why didn't i get the memo ? i support equal rights for homosexuals so i should definitely get a copy of this "homosexual agenda" that everyone keeps ranting about...
everyone tells me that this article or that article is apart of this mysterious agenda but no one has ever explained the agenda or given out copies of it...
so since you obviously know Shosyn, tell me -- what is the "homosexual agenda" ??? please enlighten me with your wisdom on the topic
Freedom, while I don't agree with Shosyn I think you're being incredibly naive if you think that news outlets don't handpick the stories they choose to report. No outlet reports all the news and most outlets have leanings towards a political agenda.
god - Why do you think we should only read and comment on things we like or agree with? How does that further dialog in the public square? The "if you don't like it, leave" chant only demonstrates a fundamental misunderstanding of human nature and a dislike of the first amendment.
Seriously spot on! It's lame to waste any more time discussing the obvious. Instead of fighting amongst ourselves, lets get over the stupid little differences and focus on big deals like AIDS and starving children and stuff...good grief!
It's finally been published, and I've found a copy of the "Homosexual agenda"... it's AMAZING.
http://www.archives.gov/exhibits/charters/constitution.html
Shocking... revolutionary!!!
for a group that's so against homosexuals republicans sure like to mention cramming things down people's throats alot.
Shirley, to suggest that the Constitution of the United States, one of, if not the, most important documents in our history is the "Homosexual Agenda" is disrespectful. The Constitution belongs to all of us, not just to one limited group of people. There is, of course, a homosexual agenda, shared by many heterosexuals, to secure equal rights for all. While I understand the intent of your post, I just think it goes a little to far. Just my opinion.
<---Stands up, climbs onto his desk, and begins to applaud ShirleyJ, LOUDLY!
joemike, the 'Homosexual Agenda' is about freedom, what is the Constitution about...?
No, you are correct, it does belong to all of us. Black, white, gay, straight, etc... All citizens of this nation are to be treated equally under the law and at this time they are not - that was my point. There is no "homosexual agenda," if legal citizens of a nation are being subjugated because another portion of the citizenry decides it to be so, it is wrong. Period. End of story.
The Constitution of the United States was to fight such oppression, to allow the citizens of this new land rights that were being denied them under the old system. To guarantee those freedoms, and allow a nation to thrive.
joe mike
The Constitution belongs to all of us, not just to one limited group of people.
that was the whole point, that the constitution protects us all and if that was the thing you find disrespectful on this page then you're not paying attention.
Joemike, I think you misunderstood what Shirley was getting at: the only "agenda" gay people have are to live life in the pursuit of happiness and equal treatment. Which are the principles in the constitution. There was no indication that she felt it was solely purview of gay people.
Hatr, Shirley and Eng, I understood exactly what Shirley was trying to say and agree with her point. She did however expressly say - here's the homosexual agenda - and included a link directly to the Constitution of the United States. I agree with her point, I just didn't like her metaphor. Shirley was the one limiting the application of the Constitution by her example and I was the one pointing out that it belongs to us all.
That's right. The Constitution provides that all people should be treated EQUALLY under the law.
So, when a LAW says that marriage is the union of a man and a woman, for there to be any discrimination, a homosexual would have to be prevented from marrying a person of the OPPOSITE gender.
Can you cite such a case?
foolishness - That doesn't even remotely make sense. Care to try again?
Ahh, how cute. Freedom believes that NBC reports all the news instead of what's on the agenda. And my six year old nephew believes in Santa Claus brings him gifts, and the Tooth Fairy puts money under his pillow.
Actually you just did. If the government is to provide legal responsibilities and benefits for to one group, but deny the same to another, it should be illegal. Personally, I do not believe the government has any reason to be in the marriage business. I say remove all the legal implications for married people in this country. Then there really wouldn't be anything to fight about, now would there?
Ultimately, here's the deal. I don't want to know what happens in your bedroom, nor my neighbors. If two (or more, hell it may work for some people) consenting adults, want to enter into a legal contract that says they have X obligations as far as the federal government is concerned, more power to them. It is not my business, nor should it, be yours.
In the mean time, there are still tax paying citizens who are in committed relationships that are being told by busybodies like yourself that the life they are building is invalid. While you have that right to your opinion, the federal government does not. It is in place to enforce the laws of the land, not offer an opinion.
In 50 years when our grandchildren are reading about this and wondering what all the fuss was about, I'm sure there will be people like you still spouting "it's unnatural" or, "it'll be the end of civilization as we know it!!," because there always are... though in 50 years I wonder what it will be about? People who are blonde haired and brown eyed maybe... or left handed?
Shosyn, How is this the homosexual agenda? It's the folks at the spouses club whose actions have brought media attention. If they'd allowed her membership there would be one less gay story for you to focus on.
Shosyn....I believe you're looking for FOX news,you must have gotten lost on the way.
You're in the area for free thinkers who enjoy news about current events pertaining to ALL people as we are all created equal.
You want your news filtered to reflect your guidelines regarding the people and stories that really matter obviously so......
The Right wing hatespeak and biased diatribe site is thataway ========>
If the military lifted the ban on "don't ask, don't tell" what's the problem? The problem is that the military still doesn't recognize same sex marriage. No ID card? Not going to get one unless she can prove, some way, that she is the dependent; either as a spouse or as an adoptee, something. This could all be settled if the military would simply recognize same sex marriage. She cannot shop at the commissary or go to the military clinic or dentist because she does not have an ID card. The military has got to get their heads out of the sand and accept that recognizing same sex marriage will not lead to accepting human/animal marriage, as has been suggested. It does not matter what the Bible says because there is a huge segment of society that does not read the Bible or even believe in God, so it doesn't matter what the Bible thumpers claim the Bible says. Adoption is still a viable means of parenthood. Biological doesn't mean better. However, even if all this goes away, why would this woman want to belong to a club that doesn't want her there? Regardless of how she got there. However, she may have a great deal to offer in the way of creativity. Haters love to hate and will do everything they can to collect more haters.
Maureen, the problem is the Defense of Marriage Act (DOMA). Its not that the military doesn't recognize same-sex marriage, its that the federal government doesn't. As long as DOMA is in force the military actually has no authority to recognize same-sex marriage.
Peaches, clearly you are very selective in your reading of Newsvine. There are just as many hateful, bigoted weasels from the left here as there are from the right.
No room at the Inn for a bunch of freaks. Just sayin.
You mean the military wives that run a bigoted club? One that is against the principles of the United States?
That MUST be what you mean. They should be kicked out of the club and barred from the military bases, as they are traitors to America!
accepting gay people is becoming the norm so soon by not accepting them you'll be considered the freak. to alot of people you already are.
The "freaks" in this case are analogous to the inmates running the asylum. Having been in the Army for 23 years and counting, this kind of crap is something that doesn't surprise me in the least. My wife had been a member of several FRG's over the years, a Red Cross volunteer, and we've both spent a lot of our time in charity and relief activities for military families. The Spouse's Club here isn't nearly as active as at Bragg, but EVERY social/family/community support organization in the military sees similar problems. Inevitably, they become little cliques of senior officers' wives who "wear their husband's rank", make it their own little private quasi-political base and use it to either lobby for their husbands careers or gain personal status. Notice I said my wife and I USED to be active--we finally got so sick of the personal politicking and discriminatory though unwritten policies of exclusion that now we help on an individual basis only. This needs to be given WIDE publication in the press and/or legal action pursued until the gutless garrison commander steps up and either forces the Bragg Spouses Club to recognize Army policy, shut down or remove itself entirely from the fort campus and stop using "Bragg" in its identification or on its letterhead. If he fails to act, the commander needs to be replaced and reprimanded. This kind of crap has no place in the military community. DADT has been repealed, it is no longer military policy, and his actions--or lack thereof--stand in direct contravention of official policy.
You just P!ssed Off ALL the Liberals that Congregate here like A Sunday Mass...WAY TO GO!!! Props to You!!! NOW THAT'S FUNNY...
bmoremom is a troll...no way someone could be so against equal rights in this day and age
AGDOC, as you stated, Obama has abolished DOMA as a military POLICY.
However, The Defense of Marriage Act is STILL a Federal LAW. And the United States Army still abides by that LAW. Are you saying that the Army should have a POLICY that contravenes Federal LAW?
Thank you for serving and fighting for everyone's freedom. Except apparently your own because it does not count?
by the looks of her the only things she is serving are extra helpings of mash potatoes. did our military drop the fitness requirements? or do lesbians not have to keep themselves in shape anymore?
and i'm sure you've won some modeling contracts due to your beauty huh henry?
@Uncle Henry - You realize she is 8 months pregnant - right?????? or did you not read the story........
People who are discriminated against are emboldened by the people who are willing to get behind them (and their marriage certificate) and aren't just going to sit down and be quiet any longer. Bigots are just going to have to get used ot it.
Al Sharpton? Jesse Jackson? What kind of ignorant person are you?
Even as a joke this makes no sense. A proper joke would be something on the lines of "It's always the unattractive lesbian couples complaining"
Regardless, as previously stated, it's pretty obvious what's going on here. On top of that it's no unknown knowledge that many rules are in place to simply keep someone out with little reason. "You're not allowed in the club because you haven't been to enough meetings. Yes you've come to every meeting, but you didn't sign in at the members table, and when you signed in you didn't list your member number - eventhough you're not a member" It's the little things put in contracts to make it "legal" to say "You're welcome in the club, but you're not welcome here"
Al Sharpton has been discussing these gay issue in the military on his MSNBC show and also Rachel Maddow who has had Jesse Jackson as one of her guests. This issue could very well be one of their topics or maybe Chris Hayes will want to discuss since he is anti-military..
hey here's an idea....how about we stop discriminating against good people and NO ONE will have to talk about it? How the hell does that sound?
Mike, Best idea yet! wish I could vote for your comment than once.
Al Sharpton and Rachel Maddow..this what i'm talking about... two ugly dykes trying to gain sympathy for a homosexual issue. This is why things are taking so long for you. You need attractive people making your case. I'd call them up and ask them to stop.
Ugly d!kes, Mr. Warden? D.A.D.T. was repealed and rightly so. No group meeting at an officers club has the right to discriminate for any reason. The officer has put her life on the line for this country. Her wife is entitled to the same respect that would given to the spouse of any officer. Whether or not you find them attractive is unimportant.
Wade read post #3.15 and you will understand where i'm coming from.
I don't care really what they look like personaly. My comment was directed at sharpton and maddow...not the subjects of the article.
Oh I see where you are coming from. I still object to your premise. If you really don't care what people look like, why go on about insisting only good looking people, as you define them, are entitled to sympathy.
Healthy doesn't always mean slim and svelte. The women the article talks about look as if some of some of their ancestors lived on the steppes close to the Ural mountains. I was in the hospital for tests about 3 months ago. One of the student nurses was a Russian immigrant who looked like she could have been born on the steppes. When she stood still she looked heavy, yet when she moved the illusion of heaviness broke like a soap bubble.
Who are you to decide who is ugly and who is not ugly?
Are you kidding me???? 18 years as an Army spouse and have never hear of an approval process for joining a spouses club. I am shamed of the spouse that is abusing her position in the club to hurt this woman. It's a social and service organization. The lack of ID is paperwork and the denial is pure bigotry.
Ms. Mack, allow me to welcome you, sincerely welcome you, to the sisterhood of Army Wives. We are mostly wonderful, strong, loving women and men who support each other. Congratulations on your marriage and the impending arrival of your new baby.
I am happy that I don't know you or live anywhere near you. Stay to yourself.
Real Army Wife, I'm glad 1noone doesn't know you or live anywhere near you either. You can come live next door to me any time.
In 1991, when I was serving in Desert Storm, my then-husband was invited to come to a Spousal Support Group. He told me later he turned it down. When I asked why, he said the letter came addressed to "Dear Navy Wife."
I couldn't serve on a combat ship. I couldn't "Fly Navy." I couldn't think about getting a billet with a unit that even supported combat operations. So many "I couldn't's." Now all I see is "I can, I can, I can," and I'm so proud of ALL the citizens of this country who continue to put their lives on the line for us. Citizen...as in gender, color, religion and sexual orientation neutral.
Ms. Mack, I'm sorry you're at the beginning of a different "I couldn't" cycle. Hopefully, you won't have to wait 20 years for change.
I'm happy you don't know her, either, or, apparently, anyone else serving in our military. You knuckle-dragging dimwits have no idea what our military is actually about--or at least supposed to be. We don't just represent heterosexual America, don't just protect the freedoms of those with whom we agree politically, philosophically or spiritually, we protect EVERYONE without distinction or bias. Real Army Wife is dead on--see my comment above her's--and this spouse should have been immediately welcomed into the military society as a true member of our extended "family". If you can't grasp that concept, you're not worth the time and effort to try and explain it. Homosexuals are the "new n*****" of the military society. It took executive action by Truman over half a century ago to fully integrate the military--now it's no longer even an issue, and no one can imagine our military without the support and distinguished service of our black brothers and sisters in arms. The present "issue" should never have become an issue at all. The military changes slowly, but it does change. Hopefully this won't take as long as integration did. Meanwhile, the bigots need to be forced out, and the sooner the better.
1noone's god just let 20 beautiful innocent children get gunned down like animals today, 1noone's god let priests rape children and get away with it.
If I ever meet 1noone or his god, I pity them
leftrightcenter- God had nothing to do with the children being gunned down and priests abusing children. Tell me why it is alright for people like you to say anything negative you wish about God, but it is not alright for someone to have something negative to say about the subject of this discussion, the gay lifestyle????
stOrmee, it is okay to disagree with the gay lifestyle, it's not okay to tell outright lies about a group of people. It's not okay to hide behind GOD or the bible after telling those lies.
I really don't understand why gays have to force themselves in to other peoples lives; they should form their own club and stay out of where their not wanted.
The homosexual lifestyle is not completely clean lifestyle there is fear of it and not wanted in many circles.
It is offensive to some to be around those who have same same sex, sex. If we look at world history we see this in many societies throughout the ages, it is nothing new. I say stay to yourselves, to the Gays.
You’re an idiot 1noone. This club is for spouses
of active military members and she’s one of them so she should be allowed to
gain membership and then volunteer with them or raise money for worthy-causes
and all that. They are not “forcing their lifestyle” on anyone by doing this
they are simply asking for the same opportunities that all other
military-couples are privy to, don’t be such a bigot for no reason.
No, Little Hater, your an Idiot, and a clown if you think that normal heterosexual people are just going to roll over and say ya, lets let in homosexuals so they can infect our children.
There are millions of us who do not agree with the gay lifestyle and you will never force it on us just because you decided that we should. That in it self is just a big JOKE!!!
Inoone, You're pathetic. There are more of us who believe in equal rights and protection for all.
Infect? With "the gay?" It's not contagious. Actually, Ashley Broadway has a son. And a daughter on the way. They're very healthy; no worries.
1noone
Wow... just wow. I know when I'm enjoying the company of friends my first thought is not, "I wonder if they are into bondage, or... I wonder what position they will be in tonight." It does make me question your mental process if that is the first thought you have when around a group of people...
Your "agreeing" with a "lifestyle" doesn't change the fact that these people exist. They are our sons, brothers, sisters, aunts, mothers, etc... They have the same fears and the same hopes that all human beings have.
It is not a recruitment campaign and no one has ever forcibly "made someone gay." It just doesn't work that like. As a comedian once said, It's sort of like being Chinese, either you are, or you aren't.
I actually pity you. You have so much hatred for a group of people who have given our society so much... But then there are always people like you. In the 1950s and 1960, you probably would have been railing against "mixing the bloodlines," by allowing black students to attend a white school.
I wish you a more peaceful journey...
Ah, yes, the "clean living" military spouses clubs. I can recall several wives club/prostitution rings that have been exposed over the years.
if it's offensive to someone to be around gay eople then they don't have to come to the club. they can't deny someone's right to join cause another member would be uncomfortable. you're one paranoid guy 1noone thinking that gay is an infectioous thing seeing as how you've most likely been around a gay person without knowing it. i'm sure one somewhere has prepared your food or taught around one of your children or some other service and you're still hetero, or are you on the edge of turning because of it?
also, learn to read, his name is LITTER hater.
Being hetereosexual does not make one normal. 1noone is a perfect example of that. Hetereo, yes. Normal? Decidedly not.
Oh yes and we shouldn't let black people in the club either, right? So the racist women in there "don't have to deal with them". This is reality, it's time to accept the fact that their are other human beings out their that are different from yourself. Don't like it? Go to a different country; i'm sure they'll agree with you. People need to quit acting like heterosexuals are superior to everyone. Step off your high-horse and accept the fact that homosexuals aren't going away - so go ahead and continue to live the rest of your life bitter and hateful towards them, it won't make the slightest difference.
1noone I'm sorry you are such a hater. Gay people are all around us, even if you don't want to believe it. A homosexual won't change a straight person into a gay person. They are born that way. My wife and I have several gay friends and they have never tried to influence me or my family into having sexual relations with them. So they haven't infected me or my children. I haven't tried to turn them straight either. So nobody is trying to force their gay lifestyle on you. You should also learn correct grammar before you call someone an idiot.
1noone, you are lucky since you are stupid, ignorant and a disgraceful person (won't call you a human because I'm not sure you would qualify in that category) -- you can choose which group you would feel more comfortable fitting into since you have so many disgusting traits and I'm sure there are many just like you. It's just too bad you can also call yourself an American.
1noone, if you think that you don't have gay people in your own family, in your own circle of friends (if you have any), in your work circles, or just in your general life, your head is so far up your rectum that you need a glass plate installed in your abdomen so you can see where you're going.
I'm a 14-year Army veteran, I'm gay, and I was stationed at Fort Bragg for 2.5 years; 28 years after my father was also stationed there after he returned from the Korean Conflict. Every male member of my family on the paternal side has served in the US military going back to the War of 1812, and on my maternal side back to...well before this country was founded, in a general sense, all the way to Henry Hudson. I know that there was a gay veteran in my father's generation - his oldest brother, a WWII vet - and in my grandfather's generation - a veteran of WWI.
I don't know what your or your family's military history is, but I doubt that it's any more patriotic than mine.
When I raised my right hand and took the oath upon entering the Army, I swore to protect our republic from all enemies, foreign and domestic. I still honor my oath, and I believe the worst enemy we face today is internal strife caused by the hate that one group has against another - racial, religious, ethnic, political, and sexual orientation. YOU espouse hate against your fellow citizen and are therefore part of that internal enemy that seeks to pit American against American. YOU would rather see us implode rather than present a united front against our manifold enemies. YOU are the problem, not the tens of thousands of gay soldiers who have served honorably and with dignity. YOU are the face of the American Taliban who would rather the republic fold than see his antiquated ideals replaced with fairness and equality.
I must say that you gave me a chuckle when you state, "...if you think that normal heterosexual people are just going to roll over and ya, lets let in homosexuals so they can infect our children."
That's very well likely the most ignorant single sentence I've read in years. "Normal heterosexual people"? What, all 3 of them? Rest assured that that number does NOT include YOU! Almost 70% of the nation supports gay marriage and gay equality and that number is growing every day as more and more people realize that the gay people they're surrounded by are just like them. We work hard, we pay our taxes, we join our military to do our part to defend the republic, and much more.
The military spouse who was prevented from joining the spouses group at Fort Bragg has more spine than shrinking cowards do. And yes, I'm looking at YOU!
1noone, I'd much prefer that my child be gay than hateful. And of all the homosexuals I've known in my life, none have ever tried to 'infect' me or any kids. I have however witnessed many so called 'normal' people attempt to infect me with their hatred of those not like them.
If you think that heterosexual relationships are clean then you need to get out a little more. Have you ever heard of BDSM?
First normal is just a cycle on the washing machine, and a person you is gay is just as your so called "normal" as a person who is heterosexual, has down syndrome, or is autistic. Secondly, I am a very happy heterosexual married woman who also has 2 cousins and several friends who are gay and they are around my children (ages 13 and 7) regularly and what my children have learned is they are NO different from anyone else and my children don't care who they are with. I have taught my children to accept a person for who they are on the inside. Third, it is people like you that bigotry is still around. Hate is learned within the family and spread. I am sorry that you were taught to hate on such a level.
Apparently there are more us who support the LGBT community than those who don't because it was those of us who support them that just put the a lesbian senator in office and added more states to the list of state that recognize same-sex marriage.
@alienmindtrick
Thank you, thank you, thank you~! Best post I have read in months!!!
@alienmindtrick
Amen.
If you ask me, 1noone is the most offensive here by trying to force their twisted and very hate infected idealism on others. Tsk, tsk, tsk. 1noone, I would much more prefer to be in a room with 100+ people from the LGBT community than even 1 person such as yourself. NoH8! The LGBT community is not trying to push their lifestyle on you, me or anyone else. What they're fighting for is the exact same equal rights that we have, that they aren't allowed to have, because of the life they were born into. Just why do you see these actions as having their lifestyle forced on us?
Never let any minor homosexuality story go unwritten here on the most ridiculous pretend news site of all. The world is in flames and this is the focus.
Here's a glass of water to dump on your head to put out those flames.
hey, they got you to read it ski. you could have simply read any of the other 150 or so stories.
She has asked to join a organization that clearly does not want to accept her. Will they be able to accept that stupid fact and move on? create their own club? Why would they want to force the issue? It will turn into another lawsuit.
If you applied to a university and met all the
qualifications to be accepted but they knew that you were gay and turned you
away don’t you think that you might be a little angered as well? This is a
clear-case of prejudice and if you don’t think that it’s a travesty and
embarassment then you should really think about the issues involved in more
detail.
It's about discrimination and hate. No one should accept THAT.
it will turn into a lawsuit because it should be one. what they're doing is illegal since they use federal facilities.
Hopefully, it won't turn into a lawsuit. Hopefully, Mary Ring and the rest of the Officer's Spouses Association will see the error of their ways and admit her without further embarrassment to the rest of us ARMY spouses.
if they go to the club everyone should fuc^ with them so they stay away
Oh geez billc-3513940, yet another hater. How would you feel if everyone started fuc^^g with you so you will stay away? See what it feels like to be bullied rather than the bullier. Folks like you, I just have no use for because you're nothing more than a wasted piece of space in today's society. There is no room in this world for hateful bullies such as yourself.
Life is all shades of Gray. Everyone may choose one they like best.
Comments # 18 and # 19 deleted, gay slurs from Fawna.
You are suspended for a day for violating rule # 5 of the Code of Honor.
jezz....two fat dykes
Does the mirror make you feel THAT bad?
I'm convinced letting a same sex spouse join the spouses club would pretty much render our military ineffective.
Whoever is denying this person membership, I have two words for. GROW UP!
No sir or fag it mean the the one that will not let her in are not lesbians and want nothing to do with that kind and have that right.
oddball, and they have the right to do so by not being in the group not by keeping someone who is gay out.
"...they should form their own club and stay out of where their [sic] not wanted."
Sort of like African-Americans, huh? Let'm stay out of our white schools--they have their own. Let'm stay out of our restaurants--they can start their own.
The pure stupidity of some people never fails to amaze me.
Like some like you who amaze because you think everyone should think like you stupiditiy
this sums it up. if she cannot obtain an id card and that card is a req to join this stupid club then she is out of luck. even if she were to force these other yentas to accept her she would be shunned. quit crying and move on with your life.
The made the card a requirement AFTER she applied.
That is UN AMERICAN!
they could require all members to have red hair or blue eyes. it doesnt matter its a private organization and its obvious they dont want her but thats their right. whining about it isnt going to make them accept her. i think its more un-american that her "wife" is a big tub of goo and is representing our military.
Looks like Uncle Henry practices equal opportunity bigotry.
Did you even read the article? It says that several weeks AFTER Ashley Broadway attempted to join the club, the bylaws were altered to require the military spouse identification card for admission. Before there was no such requirement, so the club is clearly trying to prohibit Broadway from getting in. Understand what you are reading before commenting.
Hey, Uncle Henry. She's 7 months pregnant. Read the article before you make such disgusting comments.
looks like its a requirement for homosexuals to have extra thin skin and use the word bigot or bigotry at least 14 times each day or they lose their membership card.
In over 20 years I've never even heard of a spouse club that didn't have at least one girlfriend or fiancé attending functions, ID card-free.
Looks like it is a requirement for homophobic bigots to demonstrate their low IQ at least 15 times a day or they lose their membership card to the special needs club.
Uncle Henry...changing their acceptance requirements in order to not let her in after the fact instead of just coming out and saying, hey we want to keep this a straight club, is pure cowardice...cowardice you seem to support. PU$$Y
I can't wait till all these homophobic bigots are dead. They are a waste of human breath.
maybe you "guys" would feel better if you held another parade?
Good. Fags dont belong in Brag enyways. Airborne!
Most Airborne I showed your comment to want to kick your ass now.
Oh, and reported for use of gay slurs in violation of the Newsvine COH and Policy.
Of course they can't allow her, it may be communicable! Worse yet, they may learn to accept her as a person and not a stereotype. You can't feel morally superior if you don't have someone to oppress.
"You can't feel morally superior if you don't have someone to oppress."______________________
The best line I've seen on a board.
Yep, and exactly why the rich need the poor.
I served 39 months active duty as an officer in the U.S. Army (and spent two short TDY tours at Ft. Bragg). The Army has many dedicated and wonderful people. It also has some of the most rigid and biased folks you will ever see. This group at Ft. Bragg is representative of the latter, but certainly not the Army as a whole.
I spent 44 months active duty in Europe in late 70's. YOU ARE -A- "Nothing", plain and simple. "Wilfred of Ivanhoe", TELL YOU WHAT, The MILITARY --DOESN'T EVEN WANT-- "Open Gay Enlistments"/ IF I WERE IN MILITARY IN IT'S PRESENT STATE, -WOULD NOT- in 10,000 YEARS -EVER- "Salute" -ANY- "known Gay Officer", & I wouldn't salute your "Piece of crap", either. YOU DO NOT REPRESENT THE 'Majority', furthermore, you -delute- the "argument" taking it ---wider--- when the focus hear is VERY CLEAR/ VERY NARROW. But, --YOU WILL/ Your 'kind will' "lead" --a many-- down the ROAD KNOWN ONLY AS (TITLE), "ANARCHY". GUY: Your 'KIND' seaks ONLY POPULARITY -while- true character, you-miss-it-all-together. -Idiot- "Fan of BIDEN/OBAMA".
Disregarding her sexual preference, how in the hell is a LtCol allowed to be that fat.
See, in the military, we have a little thing called 'height and weight standards'.
I know they do things a little differently in the Army, but in the Marine Corps, that crap wouldn't fly.
And, look...Unlce Henry isn't the only poster who practices equal opportunity bigotry. Go get some self esteem.
I think Informationalization forgot to read the end of the second paragraph, which states that at the time of the picture, Lt. Col. Heather Mack was 8 months pregnant with their second child. I don't know about you, but I'm pretty confident most pregnant women have gained a lot of weight nearing the end of their term. And how do you know how tall she is based on a waist-up photo? Broadway could be 6'5" for all we know, which would make Mack about 6'1"/6'2". Nowhere in the article does it state their respective heights. The idiocy in Informationalization's comment is palpable.
In case you didn't read the article, she is 8 months pregnant. Disregarding your intelligence, I know some of us do things a little differently and read things through before we open our mouth.
Agree on the weight thing. How is it that this fat Lt. Colonel is still allowed in the military? I see where the armed forces is going to get much more strict anyway after the first of the year with over weight members of the armed forces so my guess all of this will become a moot point with this story anyway since this fatso won't even be in the miltary any longer.
Wow, how did she get her pregnant? It must have been by immaculate conception! The Saviour has returned!
wow steve, are you really that stupid? try reading the comments above yours or maybe the article on which you're commenting.
still working, i hope that's sarcasm but i wouldn't be surprised if it's actual stupidity.
The LTC seems a lot heavier than I was in 1997 and I got barred from re-upping - and rightly so. Maybe the APFT Standards and Height/weight taping standards (FM 21-20) have been modified since then.
Look at the facial structure. I think the LTC might have a weight issue with or without the pregnancy. But as said before - I defer to the standards and what her Battalion/Brigade Administers.
Since the ban is lifted, then the club should let the spouse in.
I see a bunch of idiots can't read that the LTC was pregnant at the time of the photo.
She's still fat, she had the kid 6mos. ago.
Aside from a lack of reading comprehension, he also endeavors to stick to making derogatory remarks having nothing to do with anything. Like many, simply to not rest with only venting that they do not homosexuals, but to denigrate them in as many ways as possible that supposedly, he feels may elevate his own self...which it does not. It only shows how petty and small he really is.
DOCJT (POST 25.1) ME THINK YOU DON'T 'GET IT'. ARGUE FOR ---YOUR--- "STUPID AND" -ASSANINE- SIDE. -You don't have very much, dude-
Know-how, Again, it's the "SIDE" you BELONG TO! The General is "wise-cracking". OF COURSE HE ISN'T "ALL FOR THE 'GAY'" (AS YOU ARE) but, he realizes that "ridicule" is the ONLY REMEDY for this "DOPE CLASS" --YOU-- "Belong to" -end-
I think Babette has a lot more to do with this than she is letting on.
I have been a military spouse for the last 16 1/2 years. In that time I've seen a lot of progress made, but this is one area where more needs to happen quickly. Gay or straight, it shouldn't matter... love is love. These people potentially put their lives at risk for us (or any scheme our gov't comes up with) at a moments notice.
The defense of marriage act is a joke. Any military spouse should have military benefits, including an ID card. They should be able to join any club in conjunction, especially if it's to show support of their spouse.
My husband and I were sickened when about 2 1/2 years ago we received a survey asking how we felt about gays in the military. Specifically how we would feel if we lived next door to them in housing areas.
I hate to break it to you, but gays have been in the military as long as there's been any sort of military. For those of you who think you haven't lived in the same housing area on base as gay military... again... fooling yourself.
I remember after my husband joined the military, we knew a lesbian couple, and a gay couple. Legally they couldn't wed each other. In each couple only one person was in the army. They came up with a work around... not ideal... but workable. They would each marry the other person's partner. They even came up with plans to have children. They planned on requesting to live in the same areas to stay together.
I won't say it worked... I lost track of them. But they were committed. And it never should have come to that. I sincerely doubt they were alone in this plan or similar.
America... get over it! Love is love, and our military goes through a lot to serve our country and others. They've earned the right to have our support whether you agree personally with their choices or not.
Frankly... I don't even think that gay marriage should be a state decision. It should be made a federal law. That would end all discussion. What right does the state, or government in general have to tell us who we can marry?
Just remember... it wasn't that long ago that interracial marriage was against the law.
I haven't READ --All-- these Posts, here. But,, I have read a few of them. 1st up, I am --former military-- spend, four years with 2nd/87th mech. Inf of the 8th Inf Div. as a part of USAREUR, 1975-1979.
Our COUNTRY right now is -divided- on this issue. FACTS ARE: more than 30 States have "outlawed Gay marriage" while, 10 States have made it -legal- (two by a -vote- and -eight by- Courts/ or municiple; recently a MSN article stated thaat Maryland also had "voted" -Gay Marriage- but, if I am not mistaken, I seem to remember the "argument" on that one being a "municiple action").
Some People DO NOT have their minds made up on that WHOLE MATTER. For --THAT REASON-- it is a "good thing" if the catholic church and Other "Religious" Organizatrions can JOIN TOGETHER in a "common cause". A "common cause" will bring "money power" into 'smart' TV ads a.s.f. MY FACEBOOK HERE is an "overflow" for the fb -Administration- "locked" FIGHTGAYMARRIAGEUNITEBOXING WINLEADERSHIPNOWAND-FOREVER [The great -boxer- Muhammad Ali has -ENDORSED- our 'work'; -and- I myself am a --former boxer ----V Corp champ in USAREUR----with the --transfere-- I am -YET- keeping my BOXING MISSION OPEN --I work under the 'UWBCAFO-I' -guidelines- & I -DON'T EXPECT- persons "Non-interested" in "My Sport" : ) to "get into THAT"/ and that's "O.K."/ since the --transfere-- NO ONE IS COMING IN, AGAIN, UNLESS THEY ARE FIRST "sworn" -AGAINST- any-such-a-thing as "Gay Marriage"]. The "FightGaymarriage" fb is -yet- OPEN/ only thing is I haven't 'key' a n y l o n g e r. At some point in time, no doubt, fb with -disintegrate- THAT fb.
I "commend" the Women Officers group for their -INTEGRITY an their --Spirit-- We CAN NOT "Reason" with the "Homosexual MIND" it is virus destroyed ('in essence', that's WHAT WE CAN SAY). ACTUALLY, to --FIGHT-- "against" that --errosion-- The LIKE MINDED People need to Join, together. We can -basically- IGNORE the "homo-Mongers". LOOK AT THE ENTRY OF '3.5', Sally Lu HERE. "Guy is 'missing the point'". WE - SHOULD - NEVER - "Accept" "Gay Protocol REASONING" -because- THE DEATH THAT THEY BRING "US" is split into core of LIES. Their first "fight" with this is ROOTED in the -idea- that it is in fact "discrimination". WE NEED TO DISCRIMINATE. That's the -reason- we know better than to "EAT @!$%#" ("excuse bad language"!). "Discrimination" become a POWERFUL "1 WORD". Nationality Discrimination", -YES- ("HELL YES") is completely and utterly NON-SENSE [I,m 'white' and "CAN UNDERSTAND IT" if a 'black' man, or lady had "prejudices" towards a 'white' person ( : 'cuz of HISTORY 80 years ago and -back- but, that is getting "better and better"....]. The "Gay Propaganda Machine" USED that -phraseology- to "piggyback Ride". BUT, WE NEED TO CALL THAT WHAT IT IS!
"The US Military does not recognize same-sex marriage under the Defense of Marriage Act and does not offer benefits -or ID cards- to Same Sex spouses" THAT RIGHT THERE DEFENDS THE BASES SPOUSES CLUB -AGAINST- this ---further assault--- on the "decentcy of the citizenship". NOW, I am NOT for "Gay bashing" ( :/ anyone get BEAT UP the offender needs to be duely -ARRESTED- but, this -concept- of GATYS MARRYING it has ALREADY wipped outwhole civilizations in days gone past [ROME: "No 'Gay Marriage' -ALL 'MARRIAGE' -STOPPED- and it was both HONOSEXUAL AS WELL AS -Straight fornification- &, USED TO BE, in Military that -Adultry- also was "Punishable" under the military system..]
Obama is a --very 'poor' President. If he ever would like to meet with me, I -wouldn't- BECAUSE -I KNOW- I "would only want to Spit in his STUPID LOOKING FACE" ["PUT -ME- in --ADVANCE--"].
The "Problem" we have with "crooks" such as BIDEN/OBAMA in the TOP JOB -is that- "they" will-not-care to -reel in- the COURT when the COURT "Acts" on this WHOLE MATTER. The CONSTITUTION is --EVER SO CLEAR-- that they are "subject" to -the office of the president- (A -President- may take a JUDGE right out of his-or-her JOB, if they DO NOT "Subject").
People such as the Poster at '3.5'/ we must be -careful- with PERSONS who have -REASON- such as theirs. RALLY ON ME THIS -MATTER- JOHN WILKINSON, blackcombs-2@live.com -thanks-