We can put armed guards and metal detectors in every courthouse and government building where these kind of senseless mass killings do not ever occur yet we are unable to protect our children in their schools where we are suppose to depend on them for the safety of our children. We need to demand a change in priorities at every level of our government, locally and nationally. This is so sad to have happened again, if we do nothing to keep someone from walking into our schools....it will happen again. Time to protect our kids by reinforcing the defenses of our schools.

Let's do everything we can to keep guns out of the hands of nuts. Columbine, VT, Aurora, Oregon...now, this. I hope our political leaders show courage and do something about it. Losing children to dangerous nuts with Bushmasters, Glocks, and Sig-Sauers is not unavoidable when it comes to protecting our freedoms. Those who oppose sensible gun laws ought to hang their heads in shame!

How pathetic a culture we americans live with.

We stand neck deep in freedom and act insecure and hateful. Why?

Politics. Polarized politics.

For whatever reason this human being took lives .... polarized politics was a part of it at some level. When Jared Laughner shot Giffords, I posted that his picture was the picture of the republican party. Notice how these atrocities have spiked since Obama took office and the leader of the republicans said "we will make this a one term president?

Our young americans STILL need hope and change. Republicans have nothing honorable or rightous to offer them. Obviously.

AGAIN, another SAD and SENSELESS violence cause by guns. Everyone should also remember that whenever we have these shooting sprees these last few years, and media talks about gun laws, the SALE of guns shoots UP to the roof! What is WRONG with people?!

It is high time that everyone in this country wake up, stand up, and take this up to our elected officials to change the laws to make sure that guns are not in the hands of violent and mental people! I urge everyone here to write and call their elected officials today. Only people can move Congress to get off their AZZ and do what is right. Otherwise, gun violence will continue, and who knows you or your love ones maybe the next victim.

rockymtroustabout: You decry polarized politics in this country, and then turn around and display some of your own. Hypocrite much?

That said, it's amazing Canada and other western countries have managed to maintain their democracies without the Second Amendment. Don't they know guns are the only way to stay free?

Juno, would you prefer bombs?

http://hyphenbird.hubpages.com/hub/The-Bombing-at-the-Bath-School-Americas-First-School-Massacre-in-1927

Praying will not, unfortunatly, bring those children back. Where was God and where was the guardian angel supposed to sit on children shoulders to protect them from evil? Foget religion and have a referendum on gun control. Most civilised country allow people to change the constitution via a referendum. Why not America? Why is your gun lobby comtrolling your politicians? Those taking money from gun manufacturers ought to be exsposed and NEVER voted in again!

I grieve for the children and their families and for America as well!

AG99: DUH ... I decry polarized politics in this country. Republicans have brought a new and higher level of dysfunction to american politics since Obama. Simple observation.

Until americans start replacing unhonorable republicans with honorable ones, this country will only move backwards.

In all the sadness and sorrow from this and other incidents like this a voice still says "we are better than this" So lets act like it. There is a line where we can protect ourselves from things like this and still give people who deserve their rights. We just have to find that line and the will to draw it in the sand.

I cannot tell you how sad I feel today. I am in my 70's and this... 20 children dead.... and 6 or 7 adults thing is mind boggling to me.

How did he get into the school in the first place? Did not the secretary or anyone see how he could enter in? Schools need to have just one entrance monitored during work hours--safety exits for employees, etc...but for the future someone needs to build safer public schools, the technology is there.

Most of the time I feel like wearing bullet proof clothing in our area...what if I flip someone off...?

@Anita Dirini

What you are suggesting would work for a school. My workplace has doors that are locked and only accessible via keycard. Then again, how do you protect them while at recess or on the bus going home? Furthermore, what about movie theaters, malls, and other public places?

The more efficient solution is to eliminate guns entirely. The second ammendment provision in the constitution was written two and a half centuries ago shortly before a time of war. Times and technology have changed! The right to bear an inaccurate, slow-to-load, single-shot musket is a far cry from a powerful, accurate, multi-shot, semi-automatic handguns available today. If the founding fathers had realized the long-term consequences of the second ammendment, they never would have put it in the constitution to begin with!

juno6........too many of the politicians are owned by the NRA and the like for any letter to make any difference.

Will-1091847..........you are correct, but then the Founding Fathers never intended for even inaccurate single shot muskets to be carried around the street. They specifically mentioned them in the context of a "well organized militia". We don't need a ban on guns, we need controls and responsibility. We are forced to take a driving test before we drive, must register our cars, must carry liability insurance on our cars, and every car has a title that follows it from manufacture to scrap, why not the same for guns ? Every state already has the structure and staff already in place to do it. I have owned guns for over 50 years, am not anti gun, I am against unregulated guns. Guns need to be kept away from those not mentally fit to have them. Blind people and people with epilepsy are not permitted to drive, people with mental problems should not be permitted access to guns, and those who allow them access need to be held accountable.

We will mop the blood from the floors ,wipe the spatters from the walls, bury our innocent dead, watch Fox and their kind turn this tragedy into a media circus, listen to the NRA remind us that guns don't kill people and do exactly nothing.

Thank you State and Federal Legislatures for not providing funding for Psychiatric help. It's your kindness and generosity to your Corporate donors that makes these stories all so familiar. Thank you Corporate Jails for pushing through legislation that shutters mental health facilities, so they can be treated in jails after acts like this, instead of before something like this. And thank you voters who support those legislators, because you're too pig headed to realize that some people are just plain, fu@king nuts and need help. Christmas is right around the corner, so please put on your fake smiles and forget about this tragedy, because luckily, it didn't happen to your kids, YET.

President Obama we want change. Change in our gun laws, making it impossible for any monster like this 20 yr old to get his hands on a gun. We need to come together and if need be fight the NRA and others who oppose legislation to make it harder to get a gun. We own guns too yet we would comply with any laws if it meant some nut was not able to get his hands on one. My heart breaks for these families and their community:(

Trust2112,

Yrs ago there were psychiatric institutions but because many suffered abuse and neglect from staff, these places became a thing of the past. Also their personal freedom was taken from them and well let's say many opposed loudly about that. Unfortunately the result ended up being mentally challenged who were a danger to themselves and others are being able to walk among us in society. It isn't just the fault of politicians, but a society as a whole. We need to step up to the plate and fix this before one of our own kids becomes the next target.

Mayor Bloomberg, Piers Morgan, Michael Moore, and their ilk are BLOWHARDS. All they offer up are emotional pleas for more gun control. These people are elitist hypocrites who instead of offering up real solutions to the problems we face as a county offer up superficial and meaningless calls for more gun control.

People, the problem is not guns, nor the availability of guns, it's a social problem that has deeper roots........roots that are more related to the general social decline we've seen over the last 50 years. Anyone with a brain sees this. Don't be sucked in by the media or party line. Use your independent and free thiking mind to think this thru (while you still can).

The anti's will surely pounce on this as an opportunity to disarm America. I say be careful what you wish for.......you just might get it.

The Dog

The day someone will kill somebody in your family with gun, then you can make a real comment. you don't know how the families who lost their kids feel. it has nothing to do with politic,you said the problem isn't gun but people, do you think that someone with a nife can kill 27 people in a few minutes without someone defended himself. please sit quiet.

@ Chri-7073022

The day someone kills someone in my family would be tragic indeed, this I will not dispute. I certainly empathize with those families that lost loved ones. However, it doesn't matter what the circumstances are surrounding this hypothetical event, I would'nt blame the gun, anymore that I would blame the vehicle, the knife, the drug, the whatever.

Many members of my family carry, so at least they would have the opportunity to defend themselves against a maniac like this. Unfortunately, the police, nor the government can protect you from violence. Nothing short of the complete confiscation of firearms would prevent death and carnage from firearms; this is neither realistic, nor practical, not to mention the fact that people hell bent on killing you would still be able to do so, except that then you would have no practical means of self defense.

So, go ahead an lament my views, which are based in individual freedom and responsibility for self protection. I'll bet you would feel differently if you were in a position where you needed to protect yourself from the vile elements of society. I'll just bet..........

Time to protect our kids by reinforcing the defenses of our schools.

It truly is a sad time when our children have to go to schools modeled after prisons or bunkers in warzones.

I've been a Life NRA member since the early eighties. I've been a shooting enthusiast since the age of ten. If I thought that a ban, confiscation on assault weapons would help, I'd be ought there petitioning for it. The reality is the common, "thread", is the complete dismantling of our mental health system. The refusal of our society to admit that those suffering from long term mental illness can not always be allowed to be left unmonitored.

The common denominator with these young men has been very obvious behavioral issues. It is currently not PC to have someone put on a 72 hour hold. Besides the fact there is a huge lack of Doctors and facilities to conduct proper evaluations of individuals that are showing signs of significant mental health issues.

The Colo. theater shooter was seeing a psychiatrist who knew he was ill. Yet due to fear of, "crossing the line". She failed to have this individual put on a 72 hour hold. That is the, "common thread". PC will be our demise.

Condolences to all the victim and families suffering from this recent tragedy.

I don't want this to be an issue of gun control - it is an issue of background checks and mental illness. So all gun sales should requre background checks: no violent felons can get guns, and no one who has been in a mental hospital or put in ER's for mental illness. Lets talk about mental illness in teens and young adults and how to have a REAL educational campaign to teach families to be PROACTIVE! There should be a way to put a troubled mentally unstable person on the background check list - so they cannot get guns.

LittleI56 and Floyd R Turbo,Excellent posts. Our mental health care laws are inadequate.This is not about gun control,it is about the mentally ill.

Floyd--BullS&*%T and you know it

The question is why did the mother/family have those guns? Why are the mentally ill not made to stay on medication? Why is the government so afraid to hire more police, social workers, psychiatrists, and build places to put these people? Why can't we have HOPE in this country anymore?

The U.S. Congress needs to go home without pay. The next time they leave, they will not collect a dime until they sign a deal. They cannot come back to work or collect their pay until they do.

This country has HUGE problems and the U.S. Congress is fueling 1/2 of them. Cut their salaries--after all they only work 126 days. Cut out their favorite government welfare, stop criticizing each other and DO SOMETHING!

Hire our incoming military guys to police this country starting by escorting the U.S. House members out of D.C.

meercat - there used to be more help for those who were mentally ill but Regan, in his great sweeping reform, cut budgets and closed hospitals - throwing many mentally ill out on the street. This is not the case here but I have no idea of the ability this young man had to get help and the treatment he needed.

I'm with you about the US Congress - let's freeze their pay until they actually DO something!

Mental Health Reform has become Mental for the country!

Changing laws affecting the sales of guns will not stop this from happening. The shooter in this case stole the guns from his mother. She is the one who legally bought the guns. It is illegal for anyone under the age of 21 to buy or own or carry a gun in Connecticut. The shooter was 20.

Prozac is a common antidepressant and Ritalin is prescribed for Attention Deficit Disorder and Attention Deficit Hyperactive Disorder and having no connection to mental health treatment. Being depressed or having ADD or ADHD are NOT the same as being mentally ill, which typically indicates a "break with reality" (hallucinations / delusions) i.e. schizophrenia, bipolar disorder and perhaps certain personality disorders, such as schizoaffective disorder. AND being LD (Learning Disabled) is NOT mental illness or mental retardation! Many who are "LD" are above average in intelligence and certainly not mentally ill. As far as medications, look for Thorazine and Haldol and other "newer" meds. And last I heard, being austistic or having Asperger's syndrome were not in the realm of mental illness. In the 70s there was massive shutting down of mental health hospitals with the idea that mentally ill people could / should be treated in the community. Guess what...it's ain't working! I agree that the issue is not gun control but the laws governing mental health.

I agree with Fish and all the replies regarding mental health (except for Floyd who is obviously a candidate for some mental health assistance) but I think it is a combination of an almost nonexistent mental health system and the easy availability of guns. A person has to have a license in this country to style your hair, drive a car, groom your dog. Professionals, police, military all have to pass tests before they carry a weapon and they have to keep their skills current. Why are amateur gun owners so unwilling to be held accountable for possessing deadly weapons? Want a gun? Prove you're going to be a responsible gun owner. Want to run a gun store? Show some public responsibility and vet gun buyers thoroughly. Why is this so much to ask? Also, why on earth would a kindergarten teacher living in a peaceful little community need guns???

Not to split hairs. But Ted Kennedy was behind the Mental Patients bill of rights law. Basically good intentions gone wrong. It gave the mentally ill so many, "protections", it made it fiscally impossible to continue State Mental hospitals. The ability for someone to be held for a 72 hour observation became a circus. Unless someone is an immediate threat to themselves or another family, doctors, police cannot hold someone for a 72 hour observation.

The US Government meaning the public stood by complacently while hospitals were closed across the Nation. Trying to find housing facilities that met requirements to care for the mentally ill were too few. In addition the law was changed to where someone who is stable on meds and can be competent cannot be held. They leave a facility and quit taking their meds.

Now we have become so PC wary that people are afraid to point out the obvious for fear of being called bigoted.

I have no doubt it will be shown this young man needed to be treated and possibly hospitalized long before this horrific tragedy occurred.

Sadly it will be cheaper to pass some feel good gun laws than to rebuild our Mental Health infrastructure.

@Little - That's not splitting hairs, that's good information. Thank you. But don't trivialize passing some responsible gun laws. We need both a mental health infrastructure and some civilized restraint on the proliferation of guns in this country. And while we're all debating the issue the gun manufacturers are laughing all the way to the bank.

Floyd Turbo Gun loving scum - i hope you are next!

Floyd R Turbo (American)

I love the way the libtards always claim to be lifelong NRA members who have finally "seen the light".

I don't believe you for one minute because if you were really in the NRA you would know two things:

a) This guy didn't use an "assault weapon"

b) Guns SAVE far more lives every year than they take

Yeah? Prove it, with documented cases, not self-fufilling antedotal stories from the NRA or travesties like the Martin/Zimmerman case. Arizona has among the most liberal gun laws in the country, but that didn't do Rep.Giffords or the six who died any good, did it?

Yes, the mental health care needs to be reformed, but easy access to guns is a big part of the problem.

I'm a gun owner, but don't belong to the NRA because of owners like you.

My heartfelt sympathy to all who lost loved ones or witnessed this. The madness has to end....

@mountainlady - NO ONE is laughing at ANY of this - you are so wrong thinking anyone is. If you don't have anything constructive to say, don't say anything at all.

Just like little kids that find sticks to play with when 'guns' are not allowed, so too will mentally ill people find another way to 'make a statement' - weapon of choice is almost irrelevant.

I think we need to go back to Malcom Gladwell's "Tipping Point" concepts and figure out how and why we as a society have created such a 'stage' for the mentally ill that has precipitated so many of these recent public displays of violence, and CHANGE IT.

I personally think that having such ready access to every last detail and the intense publicity these tragic events receive is actually part of the problem. Looking at the gun laws, and at the way we treat our mentally ill fellow citizens I think are extremely important issues, but are still just pointing fingers at symptoms, not the true root of the problem.

The solution to solving this violence epidemic is one we have not thought of yet. God help us figure it out, and soon. I cannot take reading any more of these stories.

Stronger gun laws would not have stopped this from happening. The guns were legally owned and then STOLEN by the shooter.

Stronger mental illness clinics won't stop these shootings from happening either. Granted, some shooters do have mental problems (think VA Tech or the Aurora killer) Their targets were indiscriminate, suggesting that they thought the whole world was against them. This is a sign of some sort of psychosis.

School and work place shootings are often the product of a deep sense of frustration and powerlessness. The killers think that everything bad that happened to them was the fault of someone else. Then some terrible tragedy happens, they lose a loved one, a relationship breaks up, or a job is lost. It becomes a tipping point where they lose all hope and they're going to leave this world and take everyone around with them.

The fact that this young man took his mother's life first is telling. Deep seated family problems are probably more at fault...

But mental illness is not always a precursor to violence. And it's rarely the sole source of a killer's evil. While it may help us sleep, thinking that the killer is sick, the reality is, people actually do choose to be murderers, harboring resentments past all reasonable levels, bent and determined to kill regardless of all the help that's out there and offered to them.

While mental health should be more of a priority in this country, it should be done with the goal of rehabilitating and treating patients, not out of fear that the mentally ill are dangerous (which would be counterproductive to their treatment.)

The mentally ill in this country are shunned by society, I know because I have a mental illness. I am one of the lucky ones and have received the help I need and I understand my illness. Mental illness is one of the most painful diseases that there are but society does not care about us. You can't see, feel or touch our pain so it isn't real to you. The majority of the mentally ill are homeless and society would rather step over or as some people on here want to do is to lock us up and throw away the key.

My God, there is a law stating that the mentally ill can't buy a gun. My a%$, on the application to buy a gun there is just one question that says, have you ever been treated for a mental illness. All a person has to do is check no and if they don't have a record, guess what, they can walk out of the store with a gun.

There is very little help for people with mental illness and funds for mental health treatment has been cut to the bare bones and republicans want to put social services on the chopping block even more. The poor and the mentally ill have been so beaten down in this country and if this country continues to cut programs that offer some help so that the rich can get richer we are going to see more of our children die. Even if a person doesn't have a mental illness, people can only be beat down so far and then they snap and inocent children like those today pay the price of that greed.

Being depressed or having ADD or ADHD are NOT the same as being mentally ill, which typically indicates a "break with reality" (hallucinations / delusions) i.e. schizophrenia, bipolar disorder and perhaps certain personality disorders, such as schizoaffective disorder.

Linda, with all due respect, your perceptions about what "mental illness" is are very common; but they are not 100% accurate. Many people believe that having mental illness means that you are "crazy," as in psychotic or that you have some kind of major personality disorder; however, mental illness also includes things such as depression, anxiety disorders, PTSD, etc. Unfortunately, this belief tends to contribute to some of the negative stigmas associated with mental illness. You are correct in stating that autism, learning disabilities, ADD, etc. are not mental illnesses.

Mental Disorders
Also called: Mental illness

Mental disorders include a wide range of problems, including
•Anxiety disorders, including panic disorder, obsessive-compulsive disorder, post-traumatic stress disorder, and phobias
•Bipolar disorder
•Depression •Mood disorders
•Personality disorders
•Psychotic disorders, including schizophrenia

from nlm.nih.gov
emphasis mine

One does have to ponder why a grade school teacher found the need to have two very powerful 15round hanguns in her house in the first place and not secure when they are discussing the possibility her son may have needed to see a shrink.

The killer took his mothers guns, killed her, then murdered children and adults. Apparently everyone knew he was nuts, why in the hell did she leave unlocked guns in the house? It's not that hard to secure them! We can blame the guns all you want, but they aren't causing the breakdown of society. That's what we need to discuss, but the libtards and rethuglicans are so polarized it will never happen. Everyone clings to their respective moronic political party. Not many years ago, schools had shooting clubs and kids took guns to school and this insanity never happened.

@Wbreadex and Ace-312731

Ironically, his mother probably purchased these handguns for her own protection. However, having a handgun in the house makes it far more likely you will be killed by a gun. That is tied to the statistic that a large portion of murders are committed by family members in the home.

When the founding fathers wrote the second ammendment, the only guns were big-honking, single-shot, slow to load, inaccurate muskets. I am sure they did not have modern, ultra-accurate, multi-shot, easily concealable handguns in mind. Neither did they have assault rifles.

When a hand gun is brought into an American home, it is seven times more likely to take a life via accident or suicide than in the protection of the home or its occupants.

Yet, people still have to have them.

You simply can't come up with laws to make the situation Stupid Proof.

Will, they also used feather quills to write and had to set newspaper type by hand. Since computers didn't exist at that time, should the first amendment not apply to them?

Unfortunately we need to talk about gun laws at a time like this. We talk about soldiers not dying in vain during a war. These kids did not deserve this but if their lives help forward stronger gun/assault weapon laws we can find some little solice in their deaths. I pray for these children's grieving parents.

Well Ken - if you want MORE kids to die then make it even more difficult for law-abiding citizens to get guns...

He's had four years to undo the Patience Rights Act,as has every president since Ronald Reagan.He may have given a great speech but that will not bring back any people who have been killed by people who should have been under supervised mental health care.

just a - are you serious????? Do you know how hard he has had to work to get ANYTHING through this Congress? Go away until you can be serious!

Floyd -- THAT is the problem NO ONE is talking about taking away guns from law-abiding citizens besides you. All of this Liberal vs. Conservative crap has to STOP. It is not helpful to people's attitudes, it does not bring about solutions and it is BS. Become an American and GET OVER IT!

SeekingSanity,I am aware of how hard he has had to work to get anything through Congress.I haven't ever heard him mention the lack of mental health care facilities and revisiting the Patience Rights Act.Have you?I am serious by the way.this could have happened to any one of us and it's past time that something is done about the breakdown of the mental health care laws.I expect the President on down to do their jobs.Speeches are just words.

I am in shock - just cant wrap my head around this situation. Who on God's green earth can someone be they be 20 or 50 shoot and kill and bunch of 5 - 10 year old children - babies really. First of all I am not American - I am Canadian so there is a lot about your gun laws and your mental heath that I just dont get. All I know is that I am reading about these occurrences far too often and everytime it happens everyone is up in arms about this and that and are going to make changes and nothing happens. So this is exactly the right time to take definitive action about the problems there. I have seen falsehoods printed today stating that we Canadians who have really strict gun laws have an increase in crime. That is totally wrong. We have in the neighborhood of 200 killings a year and it isnt all by guns. The biggest gun problems we have are the gangs and that is hard to control because these guys can get weapons a thousand different ways. But even now, this month we are closing down clubhouses of these gangs and we are jailing more and more of them - we are being as proactive as we can be. And we dont seem to feel the need to have guns the way you Americans do. I am a gramma and in my lifetime have never known one person that eiher owns a gun or carries one. Yes we do have rifles here for hunting but you have to have licenses for them and background checks and they are to be contained in a locked cabinet and that cabinet be put in a locked room. My son is 34 and his dad taught him complete safety for guns but the most he has ever shot is a BB gun and he was always with his dad. He never took him hunting and my son had no desire to do so. We dont seem to feel the paranoia that you people feel at the slightest thought of losing your precious firearms or even having them regulated. I dont get it - and I never will. But this is more than just a gun issue - it is a very complex issue. First I think it begins with the parents really being with their kids more and getting to know them and watching for signs that make them feel suspicious that something just isnt quite right with their kid. Instead they seem to go into denial because they are embarrassed to have a child that might be a problem child and they keep it quiet. You wont always catch things but if you really know your kids you will at least get an inkling. And even if it is just an inkling take them to doctors, counselling or to the mental health places and have them checked out. GP's arent experienced enough to always pick things up - this I found first hand, so I just pushed further and further and further and it took me a long time but we finally got a bi-polar diagnosis by a psychiatrist. And No 2 is just that - seeking out anything and everything that you suspect might be wrong with your child and dont stop until you are satisfied you have the right answers. And dont treat them like lepers once they are diagnosed. There is new treatment for so many things now that wasnt available awhile ago. And third - yes you have to take a stand on gun control. In reading comments I am led to believe that you dont even need a license to own a gun and no background checks. So if true anyone over a certain age can purchase a gun and all they have is a waiting period (or not) and they are a proud gun owner. Even a person with the lowest IQ one can have would have the smarts to know that this is totally irresponsible. And you need to stop looking at the NRA as your God. They are in it for the dollars not your safety or anyone elses. Anyway these are just my opinions which I am entitled to and you yours but if you are right please give me all the reasons you feel are responsible for all these mass shootings and what can be dont to prevent others. Dont wait people cause then the Governement just forgets and brushes it aside. Killing 20 babies should be the ultimate that you people are willing to put up with.

I know its not nice but in another story the Gov of Michigan has a bill on his desk waiting for his signature that would permit guns in almost everything including schools.

Ken: Discussions of gun control always bog down at the point where you have to deal with the gun toten' rambos like the poster Floyd here.

On the one hand, you don't want to take away our rights completely, on the other hand you've got that group that have convienced themselves that they're penis is bigger when they have a gun.Assuming they have no criminal record and no documented history of mental issues, what do you do with that gaggle of whackjobs?

You simply can't make the situation Stupid Proof.

Like that old saying goes: "If you take away the right to own guns, only the criminals will own guns."

I am a 66 year old woman and I own a gun (a pistol that was given to me by my ex-husband. He was given the gun by the family of a little old lady when they placed her in a nursing home.) I don't have a license for this gun and I keep it hidden in a place only I know about. My landord is a Police Captain and I have often though about handing it over to him but I can't afford to buy another one legally right now. I live alone and knowing it's there gives me a bit of reasurance. I grew up with guns because my Dad and older brothers used to hunt a lot. My ex always had some king of gun in the house, example: a Mossburg shotun double over and under; as well as a 30 caliber carbine. He regularly hunted with these guns. I actually owned a 410 shotgun that was used in squirrel hunting. We kept our guns in a safe place because we had a child. He never handled any of these guns and never asked to. I'm sure he would use one if someone threatened my life.

8=====D-----------on you and how you perceive what the 2nd Amendment means. What we all need to do is figure out a way to prevent this from ever happening again.

What we all need to do is figure out a way to prevent this from ever happening again.

If you don't think that getting better controls over guns is a part of that solution, you're just not paying attention.

You mean like the war on drugs or when alcohol was banned? Worked really well I see.

First of all, gun control is not banning all guns.

Drugs are not comparable to guns - drugs are driven by a physical compulsion that isn't the case with guns.

When we placed tighter controls on alcohol, though, alchohol related deaths declined.

But neither of these examples are weapons, intended to inflict injury and death, as guns are. All the more reason to control them better than we do now.

Steve C:

I'm embarrased to admit that the politician you refer to that said if she loses the election it would call for "second amendment remidies" was Nevada's own Sharron Angle right here in my home state. She ran against Harry Reid for the senate seat.

Sarah Palin is also guilty of such behavior, putting pictures of politicians she'd like to lose on her web site with a bullseye target superimposed over their face. She had just such a picture of Senator Gifford. Naturally, the picture was taken down within an hour of Gifford being shot in the head.

Angle was centured for her comment, the judge pointing out that "you can't soak down a building in gasoline and then deny responsibility for the ensuing fire simply because you didn't light the match".

You are correct that some deranged person intent on killing will manage to kill. However, a semi-automatic weapon and large clips increases the likelihood of higher and higher body counts. Stop this madness!

This young man needed a psychiatrist not a psychologist.The latter can't prescribe medications.His family knew he was mentally ill but the law has tied people's hands to the point that his own mother lost her life.

When the Patience Rights Act is revised then these people will not be let loose without treatment.This is up to our government and unfortunately they are only interested in saving a buck.

The mad plumber,Our government was closing down mental health hospitals since the 1980's.

Correct; it was Ronald Reagan that cut off mental health funding and turned the whackjobs loose on society.

Republicans love to "cut spending", but will never accept responsibility for the consequences.

xipotec, You are an idiot and you don't have the slightest idea what you are talking about.

xipotec,In this case it was the lack of being on medication not because he was on medication.

In Arizona where I live I can buy a gun if I am legaly Insane, a felon and state that I will use the gun to kill people. All they will ask is "will that be cash or charge ?"

Just a cleaning lady, do a web search on the Laurie Dan case. It was shown her meds made her worse and arguablely pushed her over the edge.

Gloomy, the mentally ill need APPROPRIATE treatment, not just ANY OLD treatment. If they are getting the right treatment, which very few get, the doctor sould be alert to whether or not the meds are making them worse and should take them off the meds and/or try new meds. That's just good medicine. However, many mentally ill people can't afford to see their psychiatrists often enough or they don't see the same one all the time. Forgive me for not checking the Laurie Dan case, but I've been around the mental health world for quite a while; and I've seen a lot of people who were just given the same medicine for years, whether it was helping or not. Sometimes they even tell the doc it isn't helping, but the doc still keeps them on it unless they demand otherwise or go to another doctor. Also, there are many conditions that respond well to both talk therapy AND meds; but therapy tends to be expensive and is not always covered by insurance-therefore, a lot of people just rely on meds and sometimes it's not as effective that way. THAT'S one reason why we need better care for the mentally ill.

Also, I've heard people talk about certain psychiatric drugs that supposedly "always" cause violence or suicide; and I can tell you that is not true. I've known many, many people who have taken all the drugs I've heard these things about who have never had any difficulties. As I said, I've been in the mental health world for quite a while. It is true that some of these drugs have had adverse affects on some people, however-that's why they have warnings on their labels for you to stop and talk to your doctor if you feel any of those effects.

I've heard people talk about certain psychiatric drugs that supposedly "always" cause violence or suicide; and I can tell you that is not true.

Before someone attacks me, what is NOT true is that they "always" cause those symptoms. What IS true is that they sometimes do in certain individuals. They all carry a warning on the label and usually come with an extra insert explaining it even further. If you ask me the OP is a bit paranoid. Perhpas he or she has only been around the worst of the worst. I've been around lots of mentally ill people as well (family) and I'm not scared they all have hair triggers. I've even seen people "go off" and all of that.

Oh I agree Seen too much, the point was we don't know at this point and it could go either way, he may have needed to take medication or he may have needed to be taken off medication. Laurie Dann was found to be taking a medication that was being discovered to cause violent behavior in some people at that time. She killed one eight year old in a school outside Chicago. If any good came out of it, it was that the word got out to watch that drug more closely. I think the word needs to get out that if you know someone with a mental problem, do whatever you can to make sure they can't access guns or anything they could use to cause death without supervision.

You know, if xipotec really knows about the mentally ill, he or she should know that as a rule they are more likely to hurt themselves than they are to hurt others. That has certainly been borne out in what I've seen in the hospitals I've been around. That does not mean we should not approproately treat those who are violent, of course. Anyway, if you don't think my word is enough:

Public opinion surveys suggest that many people think mental illness and violence go hand in hand. A 2006 national survey found, for example, that 60% of Americans thought that people with schizophrenia were likely to act violently toward someone else, while 32% thought that people with major depression were likely to do so.

In fact, research suggests that this public perception does not reflect reality. Most individuals with psychiatric disorders are not violent.

from health.harvard.edu

Please excuse my multiple posts. Treatment of the mentally ill and getting rid of stigmas is very important to me.

That's part of the problem. People who would go to the extreme of mass murder are rare and that is one of the reasons they fall through the cracks although I'm not saying there aren't too many cracks. Only rarely do folks say they knew it was coming from the prepetrator. So we are stuck between a rock and a hard place just like with guns.

Kate, I doubt anyone would have let him into a school carrying a gun; even knowing who his mother was. Surely there were rules against such a thing.

Tisha, because America would rather blame inanimate objects than give up the blood-soaked world of "entertainment," where cruel villains are cool, where the point of many video games is slaughter as many innocents as possible, where even television network crime show promos display guns as a way to get even, get rich, get famous. And while Hollywood has nothing to lose by "opposing" guns (though they seem unable to make a film without them), reducing their celebrations of violence and the related poisoning of minds may cost them profits. Even as we reduced cigarette smoking in entertainment because it glamourized cigarettes, most are unable or unwilling to admit that the current culture of violence has largely been created by the greedy entertainment industry.

ericstrong.A good post but you are confusing mental illness with street thugs.

How does that square with the Bath Township, Michigan massacre?

1927

Oh, Tisha. Using the tired argument that it is entertainment and video games that causes people to murder other people. Honey, explain history to me then. Explain the Salem Witch Trials, explain the Holocaust, explain the genocide of Native Americans, explain the Crusades, explain the Inquisition. This has nothing to do with God and more to do with the fact that humans murder and torture other humans. They always have (long before video games or movies "glorified" violence) and they always will.

Why?Because we lack adequate,which is an under statement,mental health care in this country.Because we have the Patience Rights Act enacted by former President Ronald Reagan.He did this to save the government money.That act does not allow family members or anybody else to force a mentally ill person to get treatment.Even if every mentally ill person who needs to be in a mental hospital we do not have enough of them.All of these innocents who have been killed by these mentally ill young men came at a cost greater than the cost of having a good mental health care system in place.America doesn't need to wake up.It's our politicians who need to undo the Patients Rights Act.I place the blame on all of them.

The Nazis controlled many people sending them to their deaths due to gun control.

Banning guns in this country is not going to get rid of guns. It's naive to think that by banning something it will just magically disappear from the earth. What about illegal narcotics? I know plenty of people who can get their hands on those. Trust me if we ban guns, people will find a way to get their hands on them and it won't be sane law-abiding citizens that do, it will be the violent criminals and mentally unstable who do. And like you said, a person can be intent on violence. What's to stop them from using home-made bombs to cause their violence? Where there's a will there is a way. Smarter to work on the will rather than the way, right?

Actually, the Nazi's did it through exceptionalism more than gun control. They convinced Germans that purity was necessary and the way to maintain purity was to remove the impure from society. Gun control was simply the way they kept the "impure" from fighting back. The reality is that neighbors turned in their neighbors if they acted at all suspicious and the people in general vilified, and informed on, anybody they thought wasn't of pure blood.

I respect your quest to improve mental health but be careful in pointing your finger ONLY at those whose mental health is unstable. Fixing them won't fix all the shootings we're seeing because not all the shooters are mentally ill. Some simply believe they can get what they want by killing.

Personally, I think legitimate efforts at gun control are acceptable. There is NO NEED for the citizenry to own assault weapons, automatic, or semi-automatic guns unless they can show the need for a specific exemption from such a law. On the other side, the left simply HAS to realize that a gun CAN BE A NECESSITY at times. Banning citizens from carrying any guns would make them sitting ducks for criminals. Personally, I think efforts need to be refocused on the supply side of this issue rather than the demand side. Gun laws addressing what I noted above are adequate and there is no need to restrict the rights of gun owners further with the possible exception of possibly restricting the total number of guns owned to a reasonable number...5 maybe? The real problem is the supply side. We definitely need better checks when gun sales occur. We need to keep ANYBODY who has mental illness issues from owning guns. We need to insure that people who have a history of violence are mentally stable enough to carry a gun. Maybe we could look at restricting bullets rather than guns(just a thought, I'm not advocating it at this point)?

The main thing to consider is that we can no longer allow the status quo to exist. BOTH sides must give a little to get good gun laws. When our 6-10 yr old children start dying en masse from gun violence there should be a clarion call on all sides to fix this. Anybody who digs in for there side of the gun issue from here on will be responsible, in some part, for the deaths that continue to happen due to inaction.

In every recent mass shooting the shooter was sane enough to select a defenseless target group that could not shoot back. Also carefully selected time and place to do the most killing. Disarming the public will not stop this.

Some of us are talking about mental illness with this particular shooting because this particular shooter was known to be mentally ill. I realize that there are shooters who are not, and because of that I personally don't think you can always generalize the same solution to every single case.

I don't know what should be done about gun laws and I'm no expert-and I agree that our country needs to heal from this horrible tragedy-but I know from experience with past massacres that after we are finished healing from this the whole thing will be forgotten and gun laws will never be addressed. It's happened every single time there has been a massacre in the past. One of these times we just have to act before everyone moves on to the next story. Believe me, I grieve for those who are affected by this. I just don't understand the tremendous fear some people have of even ADDRESSING gun laws. I'm not talking about BANNING them, just LOOKING at them.

I come from an area of the country where just about everyone had guns. My dad used to prop his rifle in the corner of the den when he got home from hunting and never locked up his guns or ammo. As kids we played with live shotgun shells, I kid you not. (It's probably a miracle we survived; but, fortunately, my mom firmly impressed on us how important it was to be careful around guns!) They hunted something every season of the year, but no one ever needed an assault rifle to do that. I don't want to make it so those guys can't hunt (though I might like their kids to be a little safer than we were as far as having guns around the house) . Why can't we look at this? What's so scary about that?

Enough with the politics. The NRA...? According to the reports, he had a semi-automatic. OH! That he also found at his mother's house (again according to the media). At what point do you think for yourself and say.. ' Hey! This is one mental unstable kid that needed LOTS of help.' It is absolutely appalling that you place SOLE blame on the NRA when it truly boils down to mental illness.

So.... 2nd Amendment rights are taken away... WHERE WILL IT STOP? When every single Amendment has been abolished for everyone?????

GeoVa

There are thousands of gun law on the books right now. How about we enforce those laws?

Killers mom has 5 legal guns.....great armory for the killer. Yeah, everything is just fine.

Why don't we lock you up because you don't give a S*&% about another human being? Better yet why don't we stop cutting funding for mental health programs. Why do you want to punish a person that has a very real disease rather than getting them the help that they need?

Cunical, if by "mental disease" you mean "mental illness," then we would have to lock up hundreds and hundreds of productive, successful Americans who might include your doctor, your lawyer, your accountant, your banker, your boss, or even your mother. Mental illnesses include depression, anxiety disorders, eating disorders, phobias, and all sorts of things as well as schizophrenia and major personality disorders. Are you saying we should lock up everyone who is depressed?

Now, there are people who are not functioning well who may need treatment but have a lot of difficulty receiving it because of the terrible state of mental health care in this country. It's very hard to get someone committed involutarily in some states (laws vary state to state), and even then they can only be held for 72 hours at which time the case must be reviewed by a doctor and renewed by a judge in most instances unless the person is judged competent to be discharged or signs himself or herself in voluntarily. A person can sometimes literally be begging for help and yet not receive it until they have actually committed some sort of action whether it be a suicide attempt or a violent act. You also have to meet certain criteria to be volutarily admitted to a psych ward and-if you are unable to pay-sometimes your only option is a state facility, which may or may not be somewhere you would want to go, depending on the state and the facility. In fact, private psych hospitals have been known to hold the threat of the state hospital over the heads of patients to motivate them-I have seen this done-the fact that it is used as an open threat should tell you something about certain state hospitals. I've also spoken to patients and therapists who were affiliated with certain state hospitals, and all they did was shake their heads and refuse to talk about it.

I can see limiting the access of certain mental patience to guns, but it is certainly not necessary to lock up everyone with a mental disorder. There are people who do need to be confined for their safety and for the safety of others-if they are a danger to themselves or others, and as long as they are in that condition-but the majority of people with mental illness are not in that condition. Believing that they are is accepting an age old stigma. Even though there are some people with mental illness who become psychotic, the majority do not.

The US has become a mental disease. Who in their right mind would pay to watch bloody, gory movies where people are killed in violent ways? Yet millions of Americans do that every day. Who in their right mind would support dismemberment of preborn infants? Yet millions have been legally dismembered since Roe vs. Wade. Who in their right mind would spend hours on STRATEGY KILLING video games? Yet thousands do that all the time. Same with TV. Where do you think these people get their ideas? In a vacuum? NO.

The US has become a God-less society. I have SEEN the changes since the 1960's. It's only going downhill, and will continue that way unless we ask God's forgiveness. Don't expect God to listen to you when you have ignored Him, insulted Him, and blasphemed Him on a daily basis.

Facial Recognition software at a school?...NO.

Or the UK where no one is armed?

And how do YOU know so much about what mass killers prefer?

FOX watcher.

He is informed. Seems that you are not.

Killers prefer gun free zones? Like a mall parking lot in the wild wild gun toting west of Arizona?

Harbinger

Examples of their constant stream of propaganda please.