You sick and twisted gun owners fail to accept the repeated facts that your kids are killing you and the rest of us. Why should innocent people die because you are rotten parents? Your kids are making bombs that you know nothing about and stealing your guns to commit murder. When does it end?

freedomfrys,

So I am sick and demented because I am a gun owner? Really? My grown kids have never killed anyone. I am also a rotten parent? wtf? So when you take away the guns how do you take away the ability to build a bomb? How about we take away the media coverage that give these crazy killers what they crave? Your post makes you look like a dolt.

Watt75,

We are of the same mind and opinion. Read my comment below about Timothy Mcvey. God Bless!

I am a 64 yr old man sitting here crying as I type. The pic of the man in Brazil placing flowers surrounded by crosses on a beach is so heartwarming. It restores my faith in the world, in mankind that we are still a multitude of humane and caring people - because at times like this, the mind wonders.

The NRA types can try to rationlize the incredible amount of high-power weapons and ammunition in the US but they need to understand one thing: That not even the worst of the Taliban would ever do to their children what American psychos have done in CT and so many other cases.

Over and over again there are Americans killing their entire families and then themselves. If Osama Bin Laden was alive today he'd be shaking his head in disbelief.

watt75

Gun after gun used in these massacres are not stolen from gun stores. They are taking from the homes of people like you. Parents, grandparents, etc. Most of these shooters are aged 10 to 25.

How do they get access to these guns when their are gun safes and gun locks available? These shooters are not mentally ill, their families are. Why, because the guns are so accessible. The real killers are not the shooters, but their families.

Your making the gunman famous, which was what he wanted. Your coverage has done everything it can, so stop!

Your making him a evil legend which was his goal!!!

The other sad part is that some other crazies will try to punish all of America over the acts of this one crazy.

Please do not punish me over the evil that others do.

Banning guns is like putting a bandaid on a chainsaw wound. Maybe...just maybe, we should START by banning hatemongers, like Westborough Baptist, Ted Nugent, etc. My advise to the NRA....check yourself before you wreck yourself, seems like it's YOUR people who are fvching this up for you...NOT Washington.

Enough of the Hitler argument. The Jews had the power of a military after them, not an isolated psycho with guns. Also, Hitler's army had automatic weapons. Civilians back then did not have access to those types of weapons like they do now. My, how times have changed.

See how hate filled the crazies are.

Thank you for proving my point.

You sick and twisted gun owners fail to accept the repeated facts that your kids are killing you and the rest of us.

Really? Last time I checked my eight year old son was living, breathing and laughing as my wife and I had breakfast with him just now. I don't recall him being on the FBI/ATF ten most wanted list either.

Why should innocent people die because you are rotten parents?

Maybe you should ask those who subscribe to the "it takes a village" mantra and DON'T pay attention to what their kids are doing that question.

You're also proof that special needs children shouldn't be on the computer unsupervised.

Wonder if the privatization of weapons industry was such a good idea at all. What keeps these corporations accountable to not selling their weapons to undesirable elements at home or abroad?

Olias of Sunhillow

The NRA types can try to rationlize the incredible amount of high-power weapons and ammunition in the US but they need to understand one thing: That not even the worst of the Taliban would ever do to their children what American psychos have done in CT and so many other cases.

You are a stupid ass aren't you?

They just use IUD's and suicide bombers to blow themselves and dozens or hundreds of innocent bystanders to bloody bits!

Please move to the Middle East dpi-@!$%#.

If the government wont lift a finger to stop guns and the people who own them will not let them go, fine. Then it is time that the rest of us start being trained to deal with people that have guns.

As much as gun nuts want you to think that a person without a gun, it just is not true at all. Learn comprehensive self defense. Learn how to use the most effective none lethal that are available, Insist the government start a registry listing anyone with a firearm and those who have recently sought to perches them. have the government make laws that allow for random inspections of gun owners firearms and firearm storage facilities.

If we have guns in the house next to us or down the street, we have every right to know everything we can about the person who caries it. If you have a problem with that, then DON'T have a gun, there will be no excuses as to why the people in your neighborhood should not know that you carry and any personal information such as your mental health. If you are going to carry a deadly weapon, your right to privacy should be muted in favor of everyone else right to life and safety.

It is time to make guns uncomfortable to own, and unsafe for people to use. Learn self defense and insist laws be made to facilitate your defense and discourage the owning of guns.

Your 2end amendment to own a gun is no more important then my 14th amendment right to life. For every amendment you call on to support your guns, i can point to an amendment that will limit that in favor of life.

The poor Pakistani children in that photo above, if they only knew the truth how America feels of them.

For the vast majority of my life I've been around WMD. From Basic/AIT I was taught my M16 was my best friend. I still have weapons. But here's one statement, and two questions: I've never belonged to the NRA, so, 1.) how does belonging to the NRA become a problem, and 2.) taking guns away from law abiding citizens, does that mean the thugs on the street will voluntarily turn theirs in? NOT!!!!!

I believe taking weapons away from law-abiding citizens is not the answer, and I for one am not prepared to give un-conditional control of my life, or my family's life to the government, and it does not matter who is in office, Rep/Dem/Ind, black, white, Hispanic, other, man, woman. Thanks to the GREEDY rich of this country, the poor/working class/middle class are already under attack, it probably won't be long before they convince your local PD (who they control, and pay) that you are a problem and expect them to "handle" you.

I wasn't interested in turning this into some political statement, but some people against law-abiding gun-owners in America are pathetic.

Hitler's army had automatic weapons. Civilians back then did not have access to those types of weapons like they do now.

Wrong, why, because after all "gangsters/thugs" are civilians too, and somehow, for some reason...LOL, they couldn't care less about the laws of them not having weapons.

Insist the government start a registry listing anyone with a firearm and those who have recently sought to perches them. have the government make laws that allow for random inspections of gun owners firearms and firearm storage facilities.

Now that's different. Are you saying you're in favor of BIG government?

If you are going to carry a deadly weapon, your right to privacy should be muted in favor of everyone else right to life and safety.

Cool, so when the thug comes to rob you at home, he'll bring a bigger gun since he knows you have one to protect yourself and your family, from HIM...LOL...

Terry,

They just use IUD's...

I think you mean IEDs the IUD is used for "other things", LOL but I got your idea.

@moshuluu

If the government has to get bigger to control the flow of guns, I am all for it. Also, I do not have guns for self defense. I have been trained in the use of non lethal weapons and self defense that is highly effective in disarming gun carriers. It is a total myth that it takes a gun to deal with a gun. Anyone breaching my house ( gun or no ) would be blinded, subdued and all tied up and ready for the cops. Might surprise you to know that my defensive measures make it less likely that I will be shot that someone defending with a gun.

I was also trained on the M16. I was NOT told it was my best friend. I was told that it might be necessary for me to use it in self defense and I was trained in close in physical combat. Even for gun's my close in combat skills have been far more useful to me then meeting guns with guns.

May I remind you that the gun's used to kill 20 kids ultimately came from a legal gun owner.... That proves that any gun owner can be the source of a weapon used in mass murder. So you will forgive me if I am not impressed that you are a legal and "responsible" gun owner. I bet this syco's mom thought the same about herself just before she was the first to die from her OWN weapon.

If the government has to get bigger to control the flow of guns, I am all for it

Spoken like a true slave.

Then it is time that the rest of us start being trained to deal with people that have guns.

So you would turn to the exact same weapon that you've been spouting off in here that you would like to see bigger government control? Do you realize that you just lost all credibility here? Not to mention you're a hypocrite.

So you will forgive me if I am not impressed that you are a legal and "responsible" gun owner.

None of us responsible firearm owners care if you're impressed or not. There's millions of us in this country who will never see an incident like this in their lifetime with their own firearms. And the 2nd isn't going anywhere because SCOTUS has protected it at every turn when you anti-firearm folks attempt to attack it. You anti-firearm nutcases would sacrifice more of your liberty for a little more security only to allow our government to grow to a point where they can give you everything you need, then one day as history has taught us... take it all away.

You want to attack our rights? Then move to another country, sign up to their Military (I hear North Korea is taking applications) and come attack us.

Let the adults work out this horrific and most tragic event. We will discuss our firearm policies and how we can look to enforce some policies nationwide while giving more power back to the people to protect themselves because educated Americans know that citizens are ALWAYS the first line of defense. Was ANY law enforcement officer capable of stopping what occurred in CT? Of course not, not one of them was capable or able. The only one's who were, were the faculty members at the scene yet the laws forbid them to properly protect themselves.

And you would hand more power over to a government that couldn't do a damn thing to stop what occurred that day.

You sir, deserve no quarter when it comes to our Constitution let alone speak on behalf of any of us law abiding, responsible Americans.

I think we can all agree on this one thing....SOMETHING MUST BE DONE!

The 'ideal' response would be that anybody and everybody has easy, and if needed free, access to mental professionals and facilities. But as we all know, that takes money, LOTS of money and face it...that just isn't going to happen anytime soon.

The only other viable alternative is gun control. True....that isn't going to stop it but it can at least slow it down and it's better than just keeping our fingers crossed praying and hoping.

@moshulu: You're post is misguided. The photo of the Pakistani children actually is proof that hate and prejudice is not something that children are born with. ALL children are beautiful and are of kindred spirits. They identify with each other. They have an understanding that transcends racial and religious differences.

The hatred you speak of stems from fear and is taught. Since the birth of this country Americans have taught hatred: Hatred/Fear of the Native Americans, the African Americans, the Hispanics, the Asians, the Jews, the Muslims, the Atheists, the poor, the illiterate, the elderly, the disabled and so on. I am strong enough to recognize the serious character defects of myself and my fellow Americans.

But that being said, Americans are NOT the only country where this phenomenon takes place. Iraq, Iran, Pakistan, Afghanistan, any other "stan", China, Japan, Germany, Italy, Serbia, Russia/USSR, and ANY every other nation on the planet does this as well. The fear and hate is something that is within ALL of us, once childhood innocence is gone.

FYI: Just the fact that you would post such a statement is a reflection of your own fears, prejudices, and hatred. Before you tell others about their issues, you should address your own.

The children of the world see what happened yesterday, and their hearts hurt in a way we adults can't comprehend. We have forgotten what it was like to be a vulnerable child. To be at the complete mercy of the adults in charge. But the young ones, they get it. We should strive to be more like them.

Maybe instead of gun control, they can alter the high schools to be more of a self defense boot camp. This way for the parents not wanting to be parents, all other people can have a little relief knowing their child at least as some defense skills! Taking away guns is not the answer, to me if we all were able to have one, even teachers, maybe this freak wouldn't have been able to get a shot off!!!!

StackDat -CT has some very strict gun control policies let alone this horrific event occurred in a "gun-free" zone. Not one law enforcement officer there was able to stop what occurred in CT, not one. We don't need more gun control laws, we need sensible gun regulation nationwide. I agree with what you're saying, something needs to be done.

The truth is that NRA and its gun lovers....would love the opportunity to shoot somebody. They watch movies of John Wayne and wish they lived in the wild west. Head out into the country and kill some animal.

With guns in my view its all or nothing.

Bugs Bunny points to Elmer Fudd (NRA) and holds a sign with a picture of a "Nut" and "Ball" to the audience (Sane People).

The truth is that NRA and its gun lovers....would love the opportunity to shoot somebody.

The truth is the monumental assumptions that show pure ignorance that are made in here which is to be expected. Knee jerk reactions to such a horrific tragedy is common among those incapable of utilizing rational thought. It's easier to start pointing fingers while acclaiming yourselves spokesperons for the masses when the masses are looking back at such moronic statements wondering how it is some of you can even formulate logical thoughts.

Not one law enforcement officer was capable of stopping this tragedy and yet some of you would hand more power over to that same group of people.

Some of you keep spouting off the 2nd as if you actually read the entire Constitution which it is clear, none of you have. And if you did your comprehension skills are that of a chimpanzee. The 2nd isn't going anywhere and if you disagree take it to the Supreme Court where the 2nd has been protected time and time again when it has been attacked.

CT has some very tough gun control regulations and this atrocity occurred in a "gun-free" zone. And some of you would like more control assuming that would work.

Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again expecting different results.

@Borderlands

At what point did it seem like I was suggesting that I would turn to the vary weapons I rail against? That is the myth of gun to gun that I was talking about. If the average American was trained to use NON lethal weapons and had the same close combat training I do, it would be insane for a gun nut to even be seen with a gun, let alone try to use it.

A gun wont help you against someone who has been trained to deal with you caring it. A gun wont help you when the community at large has been trained to deal with it. You think because you can stand back and pull a trigger that your bullet will always find it's way to those without a gun?

I have several none lethal weapons that will keep you from aiming your gun and while your tring I will be activly seeking to change your line of fire. I will be successful in changing your line of fire and I will take you down and have you ready for the cops. I will do this with the same assurances that you had with your gun and now I will be making sure that as many other people are trained just like me..

Time for meaningful gun control. If the government dose not do it, good people trained at or better then my proficiency at disarmament will be there to make sure people are disarmed. Take your pick. One thing is for sure. You are going to learn just how much the brainwash for guns being the only protection has hurt any real possibility for you to really defend yourself.

I wont carry weapons that have a high probability of harming innocents. I will not take lives in the commission of my defense and I will be part of the gun solution,as many many American's now will be.

I'm sure that there is a special place in hell for Nancy Lanza, just another gun nut who didn't lock up her guns and we all know the consequences. Where were her gun locks??? She was prepared for WAR. Maybe the US Armed Services or the national guard should have vetted her.

A ban on handguns and assault rifles will not stop criminals from obtaining those guns.

Learn from history. Prohibition of alcohol failed, the drug war is a failture, would you like to add "gun prohibition" to this list? I'm positive it'd fit right in.

I hate having to hear this argument over and over again. Gun supporters repeatedly cite that banning guns will not stop criminals from obtaining those guns. You know what the problem is?? Those people aren't criminals! They're just regular citizens until they go nuts and shoot someone. And if guns were banned, they would have a much harder time getting those weapons. Guns are banned in Canada and UK and Korea and a whole bunch of other countries and we never hear of school shootings over there.

Here The Hard Facts of Prevention: When a firearm is purchased at an arms store there is the NICS national clearing center form for people buying firearms to Answer and Fill Out to ensure they are sane enough to own and handle a firearm. BUT in that form There Is NOT THE ESSENTIAL QUESTION: Are You Or ANYONE in YOUR HOUSEHOLD Mentally Impaired or receiving psychiatric therapy or afflicted with a personality abnormality AND/OR DISORDER. If that question were on the NICS information form and Nancy Lanza Answered YES, The ENTIRE Tragedy would have been Prevented.

This article is about support and compassion for the suffering community, and all some of you can do is whine, bitch, accuse, complain. For one fricking minute can you make it about something other than yourselves. So someone goes to this article to read about how people care about those who are hurt and in loss, and what do they read? Hitler had a successful gun program??? or "You sick and twisted gun owners." WTF. This is insane. This article is written to offer support to a grieving community. I enjoy reading posts, and the differences of opinions people hold, but right now, pretty much every single one of you is disgusting. Get over yourselves, we have a problem here. If you want to address the problem, at least do it like compassionate, concerned, intelligent, problem-solving Americans. One reason mass killings can happen is that someone wants a way to get rid of a problem, and with guns easily available it is possible to make a real killing while solving the problem - the point is to hurt. Almost all of you have CHOSEN to add to the hurt and hatred by making it a fight. You really are disgusting me right now, and I think you should shut up for five minutes and think about the article and what you are engaged in here.

If you are going to carry a deadly weapon, your right to privacy should be muted in favor of everyone else right to life and safety.

Cool, so when the thug comes to rob you at home, he'll bring a bigger gun since he knows you have one to protect yourself and your family, from HIM...LOL...

No actually what'll happen is they'll know I have a gun so they'll go to my neighbor, the one without a gun.

My heart aches for the families (including the shooter's brother considering he just lost his Mother) I don't know what to do for them other then pray and make a financial donation to help with expenses, this is not something we're used to as a country.

NEWSFLASH

Vin1112

Your "values" and reasoning on comparing us to Hitler just don't wash.

Go to a country where you can be happier...we aren't about to change ours to suit your agenda.

I keep reading posts by people arguing that "automobiles kill people too, so why not ban automobiles?"

Well, let's examine that. Let's turn that question around and say "Ok, yes, automobiles and guns can both kill. But rather than ban either, let's just treat them equally?"

Well why not? And here's a sample of what that would look like in my own State of Oregon. Here are the Oregon requirements for licenses, and registration and insurance to own and operate an automobile in Oregon (with the "automobile" and "motor vehicle" references changed to read "FIREARM") :

*****************

MINIMUM FIREARM INSURANCE REQUIREMENTS

Oregon's mandatory insurance law requires every FIREARM owner to insure their FIREARM(S). The minimum liability insurance a FIREARM owner must have is:

Bodily Injury and property damage liability:

* $25.000.00 Per person; and

* $50,000.00 per incident for bodily injury to others; and

* $20,000.00 per incident for damage to other's property

Personal Injury Protection (for reasonable and necessary medical, dental and other expenses incurred up to 1-year after the incident):

* $15,000.00 per person

Uninsured FIREARM owner:

* $25,000.00 per person; and

* $50,000.00 per incident for bodily injury

Note: You must certify that you have this insurance each time you register and/or renew registration for a FIREARM, or when you buy FIREARM permit. You must also certify that you will comply with Oregon's FIREARM insurance requirements as long as a FIREARM is registered in your name, or for the duration of the permit.

OREGON FIREARM LICENSE

While handling a FIREARM on any premises open to the public in Oregon, you must have either a valid FIREARM license or FIREARM instruction permit issued by the state in your possession. If you are over the age of 18 and need to gain FIREARM experience before getting your FIREARM license, you may obtain an instruction permit.

To Qualify/ApplyYou must apply in person, and you must:

* Be a resident of or domiciled in Oregon;

* Be at least 18 years of age;

* Have no suspended, canceled, revoked, or otherwise withdrawn FIREARM privileges in Oregon or any other state;

* Submit a completed FIREARM Application. If you answer “yes” to any of the medical questions on the application as outlined the state will not issue you FIREARM privileges until you have established that your condition does not affect your ability to handle a FIREARM safely.

You may be asked to provide additional medical information and/or require that you pass additional FIREARM tests;

* Present proof of your full legal name;

* Present proof of your legal presence in the U.S., identity and date of birth;

* Provide your Social Security Number on the application;

* Present proof of your residence address;

* Pass the FIREARM knowledge test;

* Make an appointment for a FIREARM test. If you have a valid FIREARM license issued by a U.S. State, you may not be required to take the FIREARM test;

* Pass the FIREARM test. If you do not have proof of insurance for the FIREARM, you will have to reschedule the FIREARM test;

* Pass a vision screening;

* Surrender any valid Oregon ID Card;

* Surrender any valid FIREARM license or permit issued by another jurisdiction (state,

territory, etc);

* Pay the applicable testing and licensing fees. You must pay test fees prior to taking any FIREARM test. Be prepared to make separate payments for your testing and licensing fees; and* Have your photograph taken.

After you meet the requirements, you are issued an interim card to use until you receive your FIREARM license in the mail.

If you surrender a previous FIREARM license, instruction permit or Oregon ID Card, it is hole-punched and returned to you. The hole-punched card is not valid by itself, but may be used as additional proof of identity with the interim card.

FIREARM LICENSE FEES

Original fee: $60.00

Renewal fee: $40.00

Replacement fee: $26.50

Firearm License Test fee: $9.00

Reinstatement fee for a Suspension or Revocation: $75.00

FIREARM TITLE FEES

Regular Title fee: $77.00 per firearm

Replacement Title fee: $77.00 per firearm

Regular Title Transfer fee (replacement): $77.00 per firearm

FIREARM REGISTRATION FEES

Regular registration (4 years for firest registration): $172.00 per FIREARM

Renewal registration: (2 years): $86.00 per FIREARM

LICENSE PLATE FEE (unique ID Plate must be mechanically attached to FIREARM)

Single plate: $12.00 per FIREARM

Plate transfer fee: $6.00 per FIREARM

Replacement plate fee at time of renewal: $5.00

Replacement plate fee between renewals: $10.00

****************************

Now before anyone comments, no, of course I can't assert that treating the ownership and
possession of firearms at least equally to the ownership and operation of a motor vehicle
would reduce the number of deaths and injuries from gun violence and accidents related
to guns. But gosh, why shouldn't we try?
I think it would be difficult for the logical and rational citizen of the United States
to argue why we should not. Both require significant care and diligence to be owned and
operated responsibly, and both can kill, both can injure and both can maim when handled
irresponsibly.
And why should gun ownership not carry the lion's share of the real costs to our society
for gun owners to exercise their 2nd amendment rights. Nothing in the 2nd amendment says
that fees, permits and licenses will not be mandated; and no, that is not an
infringement of your rights. It is simple regulation.
At the very least, imposing these sort of insurance requirements, fees and licensing
requirements will greatly reduce the desire by many to own numerous firearms; those
wanting their own arsenals. The costs alone will ensure that.
And we can be certain that insurance companies and insurance underwriters are going to
take a lot closer look at an individual's medical history, prior records and record of
responsibility than currently occurs in a 15-minute background check before they will be
issueing the insurance coverage required for individuals to own firearms. After all, the
insurance companies will be on the financial hook when something happens, just as they
are with motor vehicle insurance.
The fact that we haven't already taken such actions in the United States to treat
firearms with sensible, responsible regulations and controls, such as we do with motor
vehicles, is nothing short of absurd.

Just my tuppence.

One small difference, owning a gun is a right, driving a vehicle is a privelage. Apples and oranges.

Thats a beautiful thought.

LuvHeat.................. ( Amen ) .........

Most beautiful post yet... but I am still so sad.. Serving this Great Country of ours for 25 years to keep the people and land safe from harm and evil.. Yet the evil has come from within.. God help us all..

The only peace I can derive from this insane act is the fact that 20 beautiful children are accompanied by six heroic adults, which the children know and trust, to help them on their new path and help ease their fears along the way

Well what do you know? A post actually on topic and expressing CONDOLENCES to the deceased and their loved ones rather than the low rent political b.s. trash talking. A rarity.

Dear Europe

Just because you get a few nut jobs off their meds and go on a killing spree is no reason to punish other Americans that are law biding citizens.

Greeting from U.S.

Just because you want guns doesn't mean we are going to be willing victims. "killing spree" does not address the death of twenty children, the suffering of the families, and the scars that are left forever on the survivors. There will come a day when guns are eradicated from our country. You cannot continue to make victims pay for what you call your "rights".

Greeting from Connecticut

Europe is right. It is time for American to grow up and lose it's Wild West attitude. Guns do facilitate mass murder. Semi-automatic guns have one purpose and it's not killing Bambi. And, yes, people are the ones that pull the trigger but if the access to said trigger isn't as readily available, there might be less killing. It's not a matter of punishing "law abiding citizens." Guns can still be owned; just not semi-automatic. (I like target shooting and see nothing wrong with owning a rifle for hunting.)

It's a tough question. But I don't think they should ban guns. I think they should ban people.

I never hunted a day in my life, what reason would I want to own a hunting rifle. To me, shooting animals is just as bad as shooting humans. I love target shooting, semi-auto is my prefered.

Can I just say that I’m a European (English actually) and I’m not for total gun control. As blanket rules like that tend to ignore the context of gun user ship. For example, if using a gun for hunting or culling purposes then I see no reason to use a semi-auto over a manual loading weapon. However, if engaged in some recreational target practice at a range then yes I can see why people would want to use semi-auto and even automatic weapons. So in all I think an outright ban would not be fair on the many who do own and use firearms responsibly.

That being said I do think America has a gun culture that really needs to be addressed. After all this has to be the forth mass shooting in the states I have heard about in 6 months.

I find your comments to be rediculous. It takes a human finger to squeez a trigger. What the hell do guns have to do with a persons mental breakdown and urge to kill?

Hunting has been in my husband's family for generations. My grown children went through gun training when they were 12. My husband's guns were never kept in our house they were locked up at our cabin. It is called being responsible. So people want to just take away the 2nd amendment because it is really just a piece of paper? Where does it stop? Maybe the first amendment will follow after all it is just a piece of paper, right?. So the next crazy person who wants to go out in a blaze of glory will use explosives? Then what? How about the media not giving out the killer's name and giving him non-stop media coverage?

The culture of VIOLENCE, i.e. Hollywood, that perpetuates this cycle of devasting disregard to human life.

All one has to do is see what Hollywood, CA produces and what people today are willing to pay at the box offices.

Violence in movies, violence in games, violence on TV DOESN"T offer people with mental health any alternatives than get behind a gun or get behind any other means, i.e. car, and impact other people.

It isn't just convienently the notion of guns but VIOLENCE being sold to children.

Did you ever notice how the gun control morons don't mind when the government drafts you and gives you a gun to protect everybody else in the world.......but your own family?

The government doesn't draft people here and give them guns. The U.S. government discontinued the draft in 1973, 39 years ago.

Dr. spin:

Maybe your veiled attempt to push gun control here helps you forget how f*****up Europe is. I suggest you take care of your problems first, than chime in on U.S. BUSINESS. In a matter that'snone of your business, nowhere in your post is there mention of the 1000s of children killed by Syria's Assad in the past 18 months..Gun control has worked so well there for the dictatorial Government of Assad.

@lee-936758

You DO realize that Syria isn't a part of Europe right?

well..... keep eating food grown, sprayed and processed with chemicals, keep on treating the children and adults who born mentally inaccurate, because moms ate that food, with more drugs and chemicals and what do you expect. Folks, you can't fix stupid and you can't keep guns out of stupid's hands.

I can also feel the belligerence from all the gun owners/supporters, until a gun kills your loved ones? Unless you are the many who loves these inanimate objects. BTW I am native american

It is amazing to see so many fans of Hitler on today.

He wanted to disarm his people as well.

It is truly evil to twist such a tragedy to punish all of America.

Race:

You DO realize Europe is not part of the U.S.A.? Must be that Progressive History class you attended! You DO realize 40,000+ men, women, & children have been killed in Syria the last 18 months alone? I wonder who the Secretary of State was at that time?

@ chicory51

chicory is good for you ;)

peace man

Dr. Spin it was us crazy Americans who bailed Europe's sorry asses out in TWO world wars!

You are welcome.

The United States of America!

Dr. Spin

Dear Americans, it's now or never: it is unthinkable for the European countries
that civilians can posses let alone carry semi automatic weapons and
guns in public.

Dear Dr. Spin,

You aren't Swiss, are you? Last time I checked, they were still Europeans.

@ TerryFromWTF

And you got us into many more before and afterwards.

Thank you very much!

Actually, Denver Bill 2 , Switzerland is not a member of the European Union. And so, there is a possibility for you to go there and advocate for the capital punishment. Since, that too, as are the semi-automatic weapons, is strictly forbidden in the EU countries.

Europe is right. It is time for American to grow up and lose it's Wild West attitude.

I admit, I'm no doctor of psychiatry, but I do have a very hard time trying to understand some of you people. America, as well as the world has always acted with a "Wild West Attitude." America as we know it was born of a Wild West Attitude, the World IS a Wild West Attitude...should I go on.

Dr. Spin

Actually, Denver Bill 2 , Switzerland is not a member of the European Union.

Well, golly gee. Maybe your original post should have stated "European Union members" instead of "European countries."

damon-1415903

Dear Europe

Just because you get a few nut jobs off their meds and go on a killing spree is no reason to punish other Americans that are law biding citizens.

Greeting from U.S.

It was a law abiding citizens guns that where used to cut down 20 children. That proves that legal gun owners can be the source of guns that are used in mass murder.

You'll forgive me if you being law abiding and having a gun dose not inspire me with confidence. Besides, it is always a relative few that abuse something that get a large number of people banned from a given activity.. Live with it. Just a nut with guns is all it takes for 20 children with gifts under the Christmas tree, to not be alive to see Christmas day 2012.

Gun fanatics seem to like to overlook inconvenient things such as 20 slaughtered1st graders. So what's the total amount of blood that has to be spilled? How many children are you gun-freaks willing to sacrifice? Why don't you offer up your own children? Nowhere, and I mean literally NOWHERE in the 2nd Amendment does it say that Joe Bob has the inalienable right to own a semi-automatic weapon. Even your NRA loving SCOTUS guru Scalia has said that the 2nd Amendment HAS limitations. You NRA people are really demented. That's probably why you fight so hard about stricter mental evaluations, because you know that you will not pass the test.

Greetings from the US,

One last thing: the 2nd amendment is just a piece of paper. What would your Founding Fathers say?

They would say give the power back to the people and stop trusting government to protect you. Not ONE law enforcement officer was able to stop what happened in CT, not one. Our founders gave us our Constitution because they knew that if we did not retain the power to protect ourselves and form militias then the power would only be in two areas, government and criminals.

You have a lot to learn about our history, who we are, and why our Constitution was written the way it was. By the way, the 2nd isn't just a piece of paper. Maybe that's how you feel about your Constitution, along side a government that monitors literally every thing you do...

@Borderlands

The 2end amendment is not just a piece of paper. Then again, neither is the 14th amendment that gives us the right to life. The 2end was also not thought up to support the killing en mass of Americans. our forefathers would have nothing to do with people who thought the 2end was an excuse for no gun control.

Your 2end is no more important then my 14th. My 14th is just as sacred, and if it is found that the protection of my 14th requires the suppression, even in a small way of you 2end, then so be it. No one will take your guns, but people will be there to make sure they do not take lives.

Europe-Founding Fathers?? They (your people) came over here and just about killed off every native in sight! With guess what? Guns and explosives. So I don't guess they would really be concerned too much. Taking this land over was a horrible point in history. Don't know why your country can't just leave people alone. You'll have staked a claim on just about every country one way or the other over hundreds of years. Now you probably wonder why muslims are bombing your subways and airlines. You will reap what you sow.

What did they have in mind,TT? You sound like you know. Inlighten us.

Tell me then, what was the intent of the founding fathers??? You seem to know what they meant and didnt mean, right?

TTerryftb

It's amazing that the rest of the civilized world can see the insanity here in America, and the gun nuts can't. Every since I was a child and first read the 2nd Amendment, I knew the intent of the Founding Fathers was not what we have today.

You owe it to the civilized world to teach your mind-reading skills to the Supreme Court immediately.

GM Denver Bill

Seems a lot of clairvoyants and mediums out there can do the "eenie meanie, chili beanie, the spirits are about to speak..." from the Rocky and Bullwinkle Show!

gm jack

Yep. Lots of people have a "simple" solution. All it takes is a buttload of money and about a thousand scientists to work out the pesky details.

Yeah - look at the spate of bombings recently... Colorado, Washington, Arizona, Colorado again, and now in Connecticut. If you think that if bombs are made illegal then only bombers will have bombs, then look at the numbers. The argument is ludicrous. So is the one about Mexican drug gangs. This "gunman" did not choke or poison, or drive drunk into the school to kill these children. He took legally purchased guns and killed twenty children. Don't get me wrong. I agree people don't kill, guns do. Now let's take all the guns away from people and we will not have to measure the safety of guns in our country in dead children.

Greetings from connecticut

I am simply trying to tell you that cold blooded killer will impose his will to kill whether guns are legal or not. Lets not go on a tangent and be totally mindless of the big picture.

bat head 21,

Don't waste your breath, people want to place the blame somewhere. They don't want to blame the killer because that would be personal responsibility. They don't want to blame the media because that is just to obvious isn't it? The media loves this crap!!! It boosts their ratings and the media can sensationize anything. All I needed to know was that this psycho was dead!! I don't need to know his history and I don't need an in depth look at his family.

You make some valid points, bat head 21. If the evil among us seek to wield their destruction, they will always find a way. But, invading your mom's gun collection is certainly a quicker and more convenient way to carry out that evil than making a bomb. Speaking of mom, and I'm sure we'll learn more about her and what her relationship with Adam Lanza had been in the coming weeks and days, but, she sounds like she was a pretty demanding piece of work. Not the smartest thing to stay on your kids' case 24 hours a day and keep a gun collection in the den, especially when you know he has mental health issues.

When you think of the weapon used at that school on Friday though, those precious children and staff had absolutely no chance. Zero. Something needs to change. We aren't created to be used as automatic fire target practice as we're sitting in a classroom.

watt75

bat head 21,

Don't waste your breath, people want to place the blame somewhere.

For ease of posting, I suggest a number system:

1. Guns

2. Too many people with guns

3. Not enough people with guns

4. Lack of mental health care

5. A political or economic system that makes people crazy

6. Religion

7. No prayer in schools

8. It's Bush's fault (or the Republicans' fault)

9. It's Obama's fault (or the Democrats' fault)

10. Lax parenting

11. A broken education system

12. Too much welfare

13. Not enough welfare

14. Video games/television

15. All of the above

16. None of the above

We will deal with bombs, knives, cars and any other means of mass murder when they become as efficient and as common as guns are at killing people.

I personally have never seen a knife that can kill 20 kids in a matter of a few seconds at a distance. I have never seen a safe bomb that was easy to make and transport and did not pose a huge risk to the attacker himself and I sure as heck have never seen a car you can shove under your coat and carry.

QE137

I have never seen a safe bomb that was easy to make and transport and did not pose a huge risk to the attacker himself

Do you believe that people who perpetrate school massacres care about the risk to themselves? In fact, the worst school massacre on record in the U.S. occurred at Bath Consolidated School in Bath, MI. 45 people died and 58 were injured by a disgruntled school board treasurer ..... armed with bombs.

denver

How long ago was that? How many mass shootings have occurred since?

Bombs take time, premeditation, long-term decision-making and research.

Semi-automatics make it too easy, too quick.

That's why taking semi-automatics out of the equation will reduce (not eliminate) the number of mass shootings and deaths that have sky-rocked as of late.

It's not about your rights to defend yourself; it's about everyone's right to live peacefully and not in fear.

Vin--the "American race"?

Mexicans stealing the wealth?

Are you on crack?

@denver bill 2

Not all people will be deterred from violence by the method they have to use. There is however a high probability that a purp using a bomb will blow himself up before he reaches his target. Bombs are also harder to build. Gun's are cheap, easy to carry, do not pose near the risk to the purp as other weapons and are highly efficient and killing at distance.

Might surprise you to learn that even some crazy people get stopped when they do not have an easy way to make their dementia a reality.

Also, in this case, a LEGAL gun owner's guns where used and she was the first to die. So much for having guns will give you piece of mind.. In this case that way of thinking left 28 people in pieces. 20 of them kids. Imagine being the parent... Sitting in front of a Christmas tree full of presents that will never be opened. NEVER... Imagine having to let go of a 7 year old.....

Before anyone ever picks a gun up from a shop, they should be MADE to see a human child's body riddled with holes. Your denial stops right there when you realize your BS john Wayne glory to guns has a real world cost and you can SEE IT.

Spin - we'll probably never get it. We are invincibly ignorant. As long as we have guns, we will feel free. The victims, well, they point out the need for even more guns.

Wow, please don't knock on my door when you need to be protected. It appears all of your common sense has taken leave of you. Come now, you are talking out of emotion, and i understand that, my friend. I feel a great sense of loss for these people as only a parent could. This whole country is devestated by this travesty. We are the USA for a reason, our forefathers knew what they were doing, because they understood the ability of a government to turn corrupt. Let the smoke clear, then we will debate this.

Well Charlie, I hope your comment is a sarcasm. And I will repeat:

NOT EVEN A DEER IS ALLOWED TO BE SHOT WITH A SEMI-AUTOMATIC IN EUROPE.

Dr. Spin

What are you talking about? Makes no sense...???

Dr. Spin.. I appreciate you commenting on this tragedy ... I do realize when it comes to guns and gun violence, on only have to look at our gun-laws and say that is the problem... I differ in that opinion.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/norway/9217315/Anders-Behring-Breiviks-Norway-shooting-spree-relived-in-chilling-detail.html

This man killed 69 people methodically in ONE shooting spree... not saying that your COPIOUS amount of Gun-laws is to blame but it does stand to reason that as this happened people looked and said... "What can we do to prevent this from happening."... The answer is trully nothing... safetey in laws is only present when those obey them. The UK does not even have a constitution in which the people can challenge. Again I do not disparage Europe.. I love it's culture BUT it is not American.. nor should it be.

@ bat head 21

Maybe your Founding Fathers did know what they were doing but you do not.

Protecting us from whom?

You should be protecting yourselves all right. Exporting your army culture and industry.

Flame77_7

Just to clarify the UK does have a constitution, it’s just not in one single document, therefore it’s called an un codified constitution. Many countries follow a similar method, including Israel and New Zealand.

Dr. Spin

I think you ought to think about what you type before you do so. I do not expect a person from a totally different culture or country to be able to grasp our laws and constitution. This is why you live in Europe and cant protect yourself, and i live in the United States of America and have the right to bear arms. This is what separates you from us. If you would like me to tally up all the mass murders that have occurred in Europe that have involved guns, i can do it? I will not fight a battle of witts with an unarmed person. Take your gun comments to the European forums.

@ bat head 21

Lost for words? Or arguments?

You just don't want to get it do you?

We hunt for rabbits and have Olympic shooting champions in Europe, we have the army, what we do not have is the shopping sprees for guns.

Wow, this dialog is done. The disconnect here is you don't understand what America was founded on and stands for, because you don't live here. That's fine and all, but don't presume to inject yourself into a topic that isn't part of your culture in Europe.

@ bat head 21

I understand perfectly what America was founded on and stands for. And it is not guns, is it ?

You do not defend freedom, however, you defend guns.

Dr. Spin

We hunt for rabbits

Bye bye Elmer!

Obviously a waste of time in your mind, but for some it brings great comfort and who are you to mock that? Don't believe? Fine. Don't want people to force their beliefs on you? It goes both ways. Peace out.

Dido Watt75! Good stuff!

So when God has been thrown out of the public schools and any other 'government facility' and these things happen, you expect Him to show up? He is watching........

Mankind himself is responsible for all the evil in the world -- not God. Man is the one who constantly errs and inflicts selfish harm on others.

As someone else already pointed out, God has been evicted from American public schools for decades now thanks to the ACLU and under the modernist view of pluralism. You kick morality, discipline and respect of authority out of a society in the school (where youth spend much of their time being formed outside of hte home), and you get self-indulgent, selfish, irresponsible citizens.

Look at how the media (especially leisure videos, movies, et al) as well as cable TV networks glorify subversive, rebellious and obscenely vulgar behavior as the norm or "accepted now" to anyone under the age of 30.

The government of Japan is a constitutional monarchy where the power of the emperor is limited. The Prime Minister of Japan is the head of the government, whose position is appointed by the Emperor of Japan, but must enjoy the confidence of the House of Representatives to remain in office.

@moth

Sounds like what obamma wants here, doesn't it?

Emperor obamma.

I wasn't going to bring a politically charged sentiment into this vine, but the pulse of our current administration seems to lean toward an imperialistic approach to dismantling the constitution as demonstrated by his comment about enforcing gun control via back-door policy .... :-}

MapleLeaf-3035865

"A Land Without Guns: How Japan Has Virtually Eliminated Shooting Deaths"

If you want that for the United States, you must necessarily want the system that makes it possible. The Japanese system includes, among other things:

A constitutional monarchy

A social system that respects hard work, and children who respect their elders and excel in school

a Criminal Procedure Code that limits access to attorneys for the sake of an investigation and does not allow attorneys to be present when suspects are interrogated

A legal system that contains the 2008 Metabo Law, requiring people who are overweight or have weight-related illnesses to attend dieting classes

Why attack a person education because they are exercising their rights? Every body's occupation don't require a PHD, or even a GED.

Kev_mi,

Wow, you must be one of those people walking with their head in the clouds and totally trusting of the modern world and its corrupt politicians and law makers. Like i told the other guy, don't knock on my door when the Sh!t hits the fan.

Damon, clearly you've not experience life in regions of US where people value education as they are formed into responsible adult citizens.

Here in southern Georgia, I've been unpleasantly shocked by the abysmal attitudes of people overall (work ethic, social skills and attitude toward others). This is the worst I've experienced in the South, and in comparison to other quasi-rural regions in the Mid-Atlantic, Florida and Midwest.

@ Gimmeabreakoradrink

And if you notice the proportion of welfare recipients of color you will understand why that is.

@Gimmeabreakoradrink

I seen some educated people with the same flaws also in my life. So it ain't the system, it's in the individual.

One thing to own a musket or hunting rifle, another to have a whole semi-automatic arsenal. Just because you can drive a car doesn't mean you can drive a truck or school bus.

damon,

I don't think "taking your guns" would work.

I think it's reasonable to make registration for guns more like it is for vehicles.

And I don't like the idea of "rapid-fire"guns. We can, at least, slow down the rate of slaughter.

I don't hunt, now why would I want to own a hunting rifle? My occuption requires me use semi-auto weapons were we have annual training. Also, if it's an automatic transmission, oh believe me I can drive it. Now driving a truck or school bus without proper training would be putting myself and others at risk.

Since I don't believe in Heaven or Hell, 'd feel better with common sense gun laws in this world.

As an American citizen of majority age (and by clearing her background check), she is allowed to buy/own guns.

Get over that aspect of the equation.

The issue becomes intelligence of having guns in households where more than one person (the owner) has access to them...

And the ultimate issue is about a nation's morality got to hell. The concept of sin (right/wrong) has been eradicated, including the concept of killing any human (for any reason) is wrong. Suicide damns the soul. But then again, abortion is allowed.

No wonder the grace of God falls on cold souls (who reject it) and the progression of more and more horrible things occur in a society.

Man cannot save himself.

Your handle says it all! And European ancestors, too!

Still some valid points made.

I particularly applaud the comment about the U.N. Kick them out now and dissolve every bit of them (perhaps maintain the legit humanitarian subsidiaries but they don't get automatic deposits of cash out of the American tax coffers).

I disagree. The world has become less violent because of the UN.

Thats different. He's The One you know.

Collateral Damage

Brown people don't count in the media.

Yo, a‘re you a brown bear Steve?” ;)

I like your style. There are a lot of your brothers still here in Europe.

Did China offer anything? Aid, support, or otherwise for this?

To: FightForFreedom2341533. Children confused and frustrated in schools under control of Federal Department of Education are made vulnerable to committing horrible reactions. It's very simple, folks. The feminist movement pushed to remove control of education from the States to the Federal government, with all power in the Federal Department of Education. Before that transfer, we had clean efficient functioning school facilities, excellent teachers, high test scores, high graduations, high college entrances and students proud to be students and happy to learn in an environment encouraging character, morals, hope, and plans for successful futures. The worst infraction sending a student to the Principal's office was to chew gum in class or throw spitballs. Parents were involved in text book choices, hiring and firing of teachers, curriculum development and in control of education. Feds took over and exactly like the Postal system, they brought in horrors. Our children are victims of the Federal Department of Education that has given us inefficient school facilities in many communities, teachers who focus on student's pant instead of their brains and futures, ridiculous curriculums, both prescription and illegal drugs, junk food and pop machines in the corridors, a culture of bullying, students killing school officials and other students and committing suicide. IS THIS WHAT YOU WANT? Join the growing underground movement that will surge soon to close the Federal Department of Education and return the responsibilities for Education back to the States where parents, grandparents, citizens have control over all of it. Already those who want to keep control of education have gotten wind of this developing movement and have trotted out their Useful Idiots in panel discussions on various Thoughtless Tanks and Self Important Clubs to shout and prove they are "on top" of the probs with education and boy are they gonna make things right this time. Even ol' Podesta pounded the podium in a speech about public ed (Fed Dept of) and the great things they are beginning and how great their programs will be to improve education. LIARS. They will fight hard to keep control and parents must fight harder and take it back. The Fed knows if they lose control of Ed, they lose their progress to the New World Order, to the destruction of the sovereignty of the USA changing us to North America Union with NO borders, (which is why Bush/Obbba and politicians hold the fence down for the invaders and grant amnesty). This is the war they don't want but we MUST take a stand here and now. Newtown, start talking and make your governor, politicians withdraw funds from DOEd and close it down, and return it to CT. Be the leader in this as others are preparing to do just that and would jump up and back you with a tsunami on all State Governors and politicians. LEAD. You've earned the right by the blood of your children and teachers. Make them Patriots and Heros in their deaths, that changed the Educational System and gave control back to mom and dad and family and all State citizens. Don't let this fade. You are being focused on guns for a reason. To detract you from the "trigger" which is the Federal Board of Education that ultimately murdered your children and the hope and dreams and lives and futures of many many others.

Take away guns ( we know guns will never really go away ) and you take away the most efficient means of killing. We will talk about bombs, knives and cars when they are used more then guns and become just as efficient and safe for the purp to use.

It is not about stopping all killing, it is about removing the most efficient means of killing. If bombs where the best thing people could use for mass murder, we would be seeing a lot of these fools blowing themselves up before they even got to the target. That is why a bomb is not used over a gun. Knives, extremity inefficient. The school attack in china that happened involving a knife resulted in NO fatalities at last check.

No one suggests that gun control will cure all problems, but it is clear that it is in fact part of a wide range of solutions that must happen at the same time.

Thank you for stating the core of the issue in our society -- something the New Age, PC-drunk crowd in the Western World will not voice publicly.

Man has killed God, so God has been given no place to dwell. Man thinks he can save himself. Clearly never has been the case, but the logic-minded modernists still think mankind can be his own savior.

Laughable.

In a way, man being his own salvation is exactly what god seems to elude to. He was vary clear that he helps those who help themselves. That is not just for individuals, that is for the entire race. He has also let this world up to free agency. He will not come and save us all from ourselves.

In the end, if those with faith are the ones that did not kill etch other off, then they will be the ones to inherit the earth and God will be there to enhance those who never stopped having faith. God dose not need man to give him a place to live, he resides every place. Just like to access your computer you need to use the power button, that is vary much how easy it is to access faith.

Those with no faith will not end up destroying those with faith. Only the loss of faith can do that.